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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A gorgeous young mom goes

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Speaker 1: missing and it took years before her boyfriend, the father

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Speaker 1: of one of her children, is finally arrested for murder.

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Speaker 1: In the last hours, two major rulings in the Crystal

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Speaker 1: Rogers case, Kentucky's highest courts rule against the boyfriend, Brooks Hawk.

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Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thanks for being

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Speaker 1: with us here at Crime Stories and Sirius xem one eleven.

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Speaker 1: In the last days, a pair of appellate court decisions

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Speaker 1: go against Brooks Hawk, charged with the murder of Crystal Rogers.

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Speaker 1: This beautiful Bardstown mom of five reported missing July twenty fifteen.

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Speaker 1: How the last one to see her alive, claiming he

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Speaker 1: fell asleep beside her in bed and woke up in

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Speaker 1: poof she was gone. Did anybody really believe that? In

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Speaker 1: the last days of Kentucky appeals court rules how it

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Speaker 1: will stay in jail on a ten million dollar bond

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Speaker 1: and that's just where he needs to be. I agree

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Speaker 1: with the court. His lawyers filed an appeal just hours

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Speaker 1: after Howke's judge said the bond was reasonable to assure

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Speaker 1: he would not flee The court of Appeals reviewed the

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Speaker 1: ruling and affirmed it. But why what are the facts

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Speaker 1: surrounding this case? With me right now? Investigative Journalists podcast

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Speaker 1: producer Jessica Nol With Me investigative reporter with whas n Louisville.

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Speaker 1: They are responsible for Bardstown Podcast. You can find it

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Speaker 1: at www dot Bartstown podcast dot com. To you, Jessica,

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Speaker 1: tell me about Crystal Rogers? Who is she? Who was she?

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Speaker 2: Well?

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Speaker 3: Crystal Rogers was a thirty five year old mother of five.

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Speaker 3: She had lived and grown up in Bartstown her whole life,

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Speaker 3: and she was dating a man by the name of Brooks.

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Speaker 3: How they had a child together, and she seemingly vanished

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Speaker 3: July third, twenty fifteen, and her car was found on

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Speaker 3: the popular roadway through Kentucky Bluegrass Parkway a couple of

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Speaker 3: days later, and her purse, her cell phone, everything that

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Speaker 3: a woman would keep with her was found in her car,

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Speaker 3: her unlocked car. And she's not been seen since.

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Speaker 1: And as of right now, we don't know what has

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Speaker 1: become of Crystal Rogers. If she's did, we don't know

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Speaker 1: her mode of death or cause of death. Take a

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Speaker 1: listen to this.

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Speaker 4: You had a little fire, when was that? After you

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Speaker 4: took your walk or before you took your walk.

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Speaker 5: I know we fed the call spins, because I want

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Speaker 5: to do that as quickly while we had still plenty

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Speaker 5: of day when I don't know if I lift the

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Speaker 5: fire before we walked back here right when I got back,

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Speaker 5: I could have done it either or I don't remember.

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Speaker 6: After the fire and with their toddler in tow, Brookes

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Speaker 6: says he and Crystal take a walk.

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Speaker 4: Did you go straight home on Friday night or did

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Speaker 4: y'all stop somewhere or because I'm thinking if that's their

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Speaker 4: normal seven eight o'clock in the evening, it might be

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Speaker 4: dinner time. Did you stop and eat something or did

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Speaker 4: you go straight home?

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Speaker 7: And we did not eat anything.

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Speaker 4: I went straight home.

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Speaker 1: Okay, you're hearing the boyfriend Brooks hout and he's speaking

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Speaker 1: to Detective Snow. Now, let me understand something. To Shay McCallister,

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Speaker 1: investigative reporter with wh AS in Louisville, the boyfriend says

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Speaker 1: he goes for a walk with Crystal and the little

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Speaker 1: baby at midnight.

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Speaker 2: That's what he did, tells police.

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Speaker 8: He says they went down to feed the cows.

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Speaker 2: But Sherry Ballard, Crystal's mom.

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Speaker 8: Has had a big problem with this since the beginning.

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Speaker 8: She says that it was very rainy that night, and

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Speaker 8: there's just no way Crystal would have wanted to be

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Speaker 8: walking around the farm, much less with her baby.

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Speaker 1: Whose farm was it?

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Speaker 8: It was Hauke's mom's farm. So brooks Houke's mom, Rosemary Hauke,

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Speaker 8: has a huge farm on the outskirts of Bardstown and

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Speaker 8: that's where they say they were.

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Speaker 1: So did brooks Houke's mother see Crystal there with the

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Speaker 1: baby that night?

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Speaker 8: We don't have any kind of recordings of her police interviews,

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Speaker 8: and she has never given us an interview. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Have you tried Have you tried to talk to her?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we have tried to talk to her.

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Speaker 8: We've seen her in court multiple times over the years.

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Speaker 8: She's always there when Brooks is in court or at

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Speaker 8: custody hearings for that little boy, and we have definitely

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Speaker 8: tried to talk to her.

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Speaker 1: Very interesting. So she's on a date I guess you

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Speaker 1: could call it with her boyfriend and he thinks it's

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Speaker 1: a good thing to take her to feed the cows

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Speaker 1: at midnight with the baby. Do I am I understanding

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Speaker 1: this correctly? Jessica know that is correct.

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Speaker 3: But I what's interesting about the clip that you just ran,

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Speaker 3: And someone pointed out that he actually says in that clip,

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Speaker 3: I went home. He doesn't say we, which I thought

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Speaker 3: was kind of interesting for someone to hear when they

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Speaker 3: were listening to that, because I didn't pick that up.

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Speaker 3: He says we didn't get anything to eat. But then

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Speaker 3: he says I went home.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to Brooks how a detective snow.

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Speaker 4: I probably I probably woke.

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Speaker 9: Up around you know, in between that time NYT six

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Speaker 9: or seven o'clock and then I left. You know, I

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Speaker 9: got did my normal thing to you know, change my clothes,

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Speaker 9: put my clothes.

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Speaker 7: On, and and and headed out, you know, shortly after that.

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Speaker 4: You know, So you get up between six and seven,

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Speaker 4: and where's he at? When you wake up? He's next

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Speaker 4: to me. He's in the bed with you. Okay, so

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Speaker 4: you get up? Does he get up with you?

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Speaker 7: He's still he's still asleep on ever eye whenever I

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Speaker 7: get up. But I go to uh, you know, the

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Speaker 7: bathroom and all that kind of stuff, and he's still sleeping, uh,

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Speaker 7: sleeping there on the bed.

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Speaker 2: But Crystal isn't there when he gets up.

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Speaker 5: Yes, I noticed, I mean I noticed that she wasn't there,

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Speaker 5: and I didn't know what was I didn't know exactly

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Speaker 5: what to.

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Speaker 10: I don't know what time I called her.

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Speaker 11: Yes, I called her that morning.

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Speaker 6: Brooks takes his son to the farm, but his lack

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Speaker 6: of concern for Crystal's whereabouts gives the detective pause, and

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Speaker 6: he probes, if I.

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Speaker 12: Woke up on a Saturday morning and my wife wasn't

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Speaker 12: with me in the.

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Speaker 4: Bed as is normal, if she were not, probably the

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Speaker 4: first thing I would do would be to call her

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Speaker 4: to find out where she was.

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Speaker 1: Interesting, you are hearing Brooks, how the boyfriend of Crystal Rogers,

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Speaker 1: the father of their child, and Detective snow speaking. I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna circle back to what we were just listening to,

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Speaker 1: but take a listen to our friends. Is w d

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Speaker 1: r B.

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Speaker 10: Another Crystal Rogers went missing and still no answers books Houk.

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Speaker 7: Was named the number one suspect of my daughter's disappearance,

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Speaker 7: and it makes me feel good to think that people

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Speaker 7: out there believe the same thing that I do.

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Speaker 13: It refers to a statement Brooks help made to w

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Speaker 13: d r B.

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Speaker 14: You know to day.

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Speaker 10: That's what I've done, and they know in their.

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Speaker 15: Heart what happened.

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Speaker 1: That's where our friends at w D r B. Jackie,

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Speaker 1: could you play cut three one more time?

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Speaker 9: I probably I probably woke up around you know, in

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Speaker 9: between that time they six or seven o'clock and then

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Speaker 9: I left. You know, I got did my normal thing

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Speaker 9: because you know, change my clothes, put my clothes on,

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Speaker 9: and and uh and.

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Speaker 7: Headed out, you know, shortly after that.

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Speaker 4: You know, So you get up between six and heaven

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Speaker 4: and where's Eli at When you wake up? He's next

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Speaker 4: to me. He's in the bed with you. Okay, so

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Speaker 4: you get up? Does he get up with you?

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Speaker 7: He's still he's still asleep on ever I whenever I

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Speaker 7: get up, but I go to uh, you know, the

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Speaker 7: bathroom and all that kind of stuff, and he's still sleeping, uh,

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Speaker 7: sleeping there on the bed.

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Speaker 2: But Crystal isn't there when he gets out.

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Speaker 5: Yes, I noticed, I mean I noticed that she wasn't there.

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Speaker 5: I didn't know what was I didn't know exactly what

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Speaker 5: to I don't know what time I called her. Yes,

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Speaker 5: I called her that morning.

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Speaker 6: Brooks takes his son to the farm, but his lack

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Speaker 6: of concern.

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Speaker 2: For Crystal's whereabouts gives the detective pause.

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Speaker 12: If I woke up on a Saturday morning and my

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Speaker 12: wife wasn't with me in the bed as is normal.

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Speaker 4: If she were not, probably the first thing I would

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Speaker 4: do would be to call her to find out where

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Speaker 4: she was.

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Speaker 1: See McAllister, I'm hearing them talking about the Hawk brothers.

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Speaker 1: There's more than one of them.

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Speaker 13: Yes, there is.

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Speaker 8: There are two Help brothers. There's Nick Help, older of

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Speaker 8: the two. He was a Bardstown police officer when Crystal

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Speaker 8: went missing, and then his younger brother, Brooks Hawk with

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Speaker 8: Crystal's boyfriend.

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Speaker 1: So is he is the brother still with the police force.

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Speaker 8: He is not. He was fired just a few months

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Speaker 8: after Crystal went missing. Nick interfered with the investigation. He

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Speaker 8: actually called his brother Brooks while he was in an

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Speaker 8: interrogation room with police.

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Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, take a listen to this.

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Speaker 6: The interview is interrupted when Brooks gets a call from

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Speaker 6: his older brother, Nick Hawk, the Bardstown police officer.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm up here. I don't know that you didn't know.

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Speaker 11: I'm up here in this interview with the detective. Detective Snow.

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Speaker 11: I've been up here a good little while. I'm feeling

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Speaker 11: out this this statement here and everything you know, you

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Speaker 11: tell me that's there. He tell me that's what I

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Speaker 11: need to do.

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Speaker 4: I know, I know, I don't.

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Speaker 16: I know, I'm not I know that.

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Speaker 7: But the one is that I look at it is

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Speaker 7: that I'm innocent.

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Speaker 4: I ain't done nothing wrong.

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Speaker 7: Well, you know, I know you've told me innocent. People

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Speaker 7: have got jammed up. But if you're telling me to leave,

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Speaker 7: I'll get up and leave if you want me to,

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Speaker 7: if you want me to. I know I'm gonna through

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Speaker 7: a lot, but I'm trying to get this guy to

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Speaker 7: help me.

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Speaker 10: I don't think.

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Speaker 11: I don't think she's ran off with some other guy.

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Speaker 17: I don't.

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Speaker 4: I don't believe that. You can't make me think that. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: I mean, I mean, I mean, so do.

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Speaker 7: I'll do exactly what you're telling me to do.

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Speaker 4: Right now.

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Speaker 7: Do you want me to get up and leave?

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Speaker 1: Well, that's exactly what he did. That's Brooks how the boyfriend,

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Speaker 1: the lover of Crystal Rogers now missing with Detective Snow

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Speaker 1: And as a matter of fact, he did get up

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Speaker 1: and leave. Mm hmmmmmmmm. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. You know,

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Speaker 1: a lot of people thought, since Hawk had seemingly gotten

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Speaker 1: away with the murder since twenty fifteen, that he would

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Speaker 1: be out of jail in no time, and no bond

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Speaker 1: could hold him. Hold on just a moment. He's sitting

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Speaker 1: tight in jail at Kentake Appeals Court has ruled against him,

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Speaker 1: affirming his ten million dollar bond. The facts behind this

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Speaker 1: case so upsetting. Officer Howk calls his brother and tells

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Speaker 1: him to leave. After that, Nick Hawk's boss, the police chief,

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Speaker 1: orders him to talk to detectives, and according to an

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Speaker 1: FBI polygraph examiner who tells Nick Hawk in a police

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Speaker 1: interrogation video quote, it's pretty clear you haven't told me

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Speaker 1: the complete truth, and the questions you're having problems with

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Speaker 1: are questions about Crystal, in particular whether or not you

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Speaker 1: know where she is right now. Explain that to me,

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Speaker 1: jessicall what happened?

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Speaker 3: So, the FBI polygraph examiner tells Nick how the police

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Speaker 3: officer at that time, that he is not being truthful

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Speaker 3: with him, and that whole interaction just really begins to escalate,

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Speaker 3: and he at one point asks him as Nick is

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Speaker 3: getting audibly frustrated with him because he's calling him a

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Speaker 3: liar essentially, at one point, the FBI polygraph examiner says,

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Speaker 3: is this how you acted towards Crystal? And he obviously

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Speaker 3: begins yelling at that point. So there is something, and

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Speaker 3: you know better than us that polygraphic examiners aren't always

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Speaker 3: one hundred percent, but there was something.

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Speaker 2: There was enough.

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Speaker 3: Of not telling the truth that set off their radar,

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Speaker 3: and that he was not being truthful when he was

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Speaker 3: talking about Crystal, about her disappearance, about Brooks possibly telling

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Speaker 3: him something about him having any involvement, he was not

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Speaker 3: being truthful according to their examination.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to this.

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Speaker 4: Well, Nick, I've had a chance to review your charts

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Speaker 4: on that test.

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Speaker 16: That first test you I did not pass the test.

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Speaker 17: And it's pretty clear to.

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Speaker 10: Me that you have complete truth.

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Speaker 4: Is that the question you're having a problem with.

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Speaker 16: Her question is about christ and in particular one about

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Speaker 16: whether or not you know where she's right now, And

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Speaker 16: I don't know. I treat police officers in these circumstances

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Speaker 16: so like I would myself, so when I can go

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Speaker 16: through all the interview, interrogation, no sense.

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Speaker 4: That you are in the same page.

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Speaker 16: But again, I'm also continue to complete truth be cause

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Speaker 16: we're sitting here and it's no longer a matter of

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Speaker 16: wondering do you know anything about what happened?

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Speaker 4: We're past that now.

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Speaker 16: I mean, I got a crystal player with you. I

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Speaker 16: give everybody a good fair test. I'm no longer asking

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Speaker 16: you if you know you do Now what you wanna

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Speaker 16: do with that is entirely.

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Speaker 17: Up to you.

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Speaker 16: Yell, it's a great match you and get the sick

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Speaker 16: wot's phone book and all that I'm talking to your

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Speaker 16: man demand is the follow on force snobs or uh

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Speaker 16: that the time has come for you to think real

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Speaker 16: hard about the rest of your life.

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Speaker 10: This is you.

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Speaker 16: I'm I talk about Brook to everybody else.

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Speaker 17: Uh, And I'm telling you facts life.

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Speaker 10: I'm an old guy and I'm trying to be a

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Speaker 10: positive figure here.

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Speaker 16: But I'll tell you doing this for twenty five years

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Speaker 16: the way that this pans out. But the FBI that

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Speaker 16: gets involved in this investigation, if you're listening one time,

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Speaker 16: you don't have to say anything to me.

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Speaker 4: You do whatever you wanna do.

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Speaker 1: As I said, we you may never even.

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Speaker 16: Be an FBI agent, all right, But once you get

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Speaker 16: on the radar, we don't go away unless there are

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Speaker 16: a reason too. I thought there would be Yan passes.

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Speaker 4: And there's some other information there as well, So.

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Speaker 12: I guarantee when not going a lot.

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Speaker 16: All right, The FBI has unlimited resources in terms of

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Speaker 16: forensic information, electronic information. Many bodies who want to ploorative

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Speaker 16: surveillance and look at everything that's ever done on so

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Speaker 16: we'll find crystals.

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Speaker 10: Zer wrote out about that.

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Speaker 6: On July fifteenth, twenty fifteen. Detectives also revealed to Nick

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Speaker 6: they found bodily fluids inside his police cruiser the day

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Speaker 6: after he and Brooks leave the station together and drive

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Speaker 6: to their mom's farm.

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Speaker 4: Have you ever heard of illuminol?

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Speaker 13: A kind of investigation?

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Speaker 9: All right?

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Speaker 10: You know what.

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Speaker 4: Illuminol's used for? Fine blood?

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Speaker 14: Okay?

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Speaker 10: Or other.

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Speaker 13: Fluid?

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Speaker 5: Okay?

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Speaker 4: So we always screed bodily fluids.

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Speaker 10: With you know, vomit anything, you know, a saliva.

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Speaker 18: All that is is what would floor s?

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Speaker 16: Why would why would your trump look like a smurf

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Speaker 16: if they sprayed it?

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Speaker 4: Why would it flor s?

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Speaker 16: Many of you look like the novel?

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Speaker 18: There's no spots in the Trump, in that blanket, I

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Speaker 18: mean just live up like Gernobyl?

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Speaker 4: Why would that?

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Speaker 7: There's not one to be any blood in the Trump?

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Speaker 17: Okay?

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Speaker 4: What and I say blood, I'm talking about.

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Speaker 18: Other bodily fluids.

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Speaker 7: I don't have you other there shouldn't There shouldn't be

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Speaker 7: anybody bodily floods in the trunk.

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Speaker 1: WHOA, it's not gonna be any blood. Well, that tells

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Speaker 1: me right there that there's a strong possibility she was asphyxiated.

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Speaker 1: She's not going to be any blood, that's the first

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Speaker 1: thing he said. And again everyone has said they're not guilty,

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Speaker 1: that they're innocent in this case, and they have a

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Speaker 1: right to a trial by jury, you know, in many

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Speaker 1: big jurisdictions, and I assume this is true and small

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Speaker 1: as well. Cars are cleaned out at the end of

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Speaker 1: every patrol with cleaner. Let me ask you something to

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Speaker 1: Jessica Nole Investigative Journalists podcast produce Sean McCallister Investigatory Report

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Speaker 1: with w h A S Louisville. Were the fluids left

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Speaker 1: in the patrol car tested and if so, did they

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Speaker 1: match Crystal Rogers.

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Speaker 3: Again, Nancy, a really great question. What we know is

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Speaker 3: what we have heard in these recordings with police. The police,

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Speaker 3: the KSP, I believe the testing may have been done

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Speaker 3: by the FBI, are being very tight lipped about what

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Speaker 3: they have found both in the car in the searches

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Speaker 3: they've done, which you'll hear about this week. They're not

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Speaker 3: telling us what they found or any test results that

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Speaker 3: have come back.

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Speaker 1: Wow. Okay, question to Shane McCallister. So, according to the boyfriend, okay,

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Speaker 1: how Crystal, Rogers and the baby are there at his

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Speaker 1: mom's farm that evening. He takes them at midnight to

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Speaker 1: walk down to the cow barn and take care of

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Speaker 1: the cows. They come, He goes, I come home, and

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Speaker 1: then he says the next morning Crystal is gone. When

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Speaker 1: did he report her missing?

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Speaker 8: Brooks Hawk never reports her missing. Actually, her mom reports

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Speaker 8: her missing a few days later when she's had trouble

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Speaker 8: reaching her over the phone, and when she actually runs

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Speaker 8: into Brooks how in town, she asks Brooks, hey, have

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Speaker 8: you seen Crystal?

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Speaker 2: Where do you think she is?

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Speaker 8: And Brooks said, no, I haven't seen her. And Sherry says, well,

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Speaker 8: then I'm going to go report her missing. And Brooks says, yeah,

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Speaker 8: I think you should do that.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to Brooks house speaking to Detective Snow

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Speaker 1: on this very issue.

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Speaker 2: Brooks runs into Cristel's mom.

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Speaker 7: I met her mother at the gas station somewhere one

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Speaker 7: of these days, her.

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Speaker 11: Mother, Sherry.

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Speaker 7: Cristel's mother, Sherry came up her my window and asked

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Speaker 7: me if I had seen Crystal.

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Speaker 4: And when you told her what, I haven't seen her,

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Speaker 4: don't know where she is, and she just said okay

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Speaker 4: and asked him no.

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Speaker 7: She thought that she thought that the wisest thing for

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Speaker 7: us to do was she said she's going to go

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Speaker 7: to the police station, and then I went home.

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Speaker 6: Meanwhile, Crystal's mom files a missing person's report at the

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Speaker 6: Nelson County Sheriff's office around three pm. Two hours later,

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Speaker 6: her father, Tommy, gets a call Crystal's car has been

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Speaker 6: found along the Bluegrass Parkway. Tommy goes and uncovers her keys, phone,

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Speaker 6: and purse inside. Brooks tells Detective Snow that he wasn't

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Speaker 6: concerned until Sunday because she'd quote done this before.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back in the last hours, a guy that seemingly

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Speaker 1: got away with the murder of a mom of five,

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Speaker 1: Crystal Rogers, will stay behind bars. According to a High

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Speaker 1: court in Kentucky, take a listen to this.

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Speaker 19: It's an interest that has everyone's attention. Brooks Hounk, Crystal

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Speaker 19: Roger's boyfriend and the main suspect in her disappearance, charged

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Speaker 19: with her murder and tempering with physical evidence. According to

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Speaker 19: the indictment. The charge of stem from an incident July

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Speaker 19: fourth weekend of twenty fifteen, just days before Crystal's car

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Speaker 19: was found abandoned on the side of the Bluegrass Parkway

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Speaker 19: with her keys, phone, and purse inside. He was named

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Speaker 19: the main suspect within three months, but never charged until today.

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Speaker 1: Why so long? You were just hearing our friends at

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Speaker 1: whas it's been a long time coming. And you know

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Speaker 1: what's so irritating? You know, Cheryl mccoum is joining me,

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Speaker 1: director of the Cold Case Research Institute and star of

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Speaker 1: a Hitney series Zone Seven. When I hear and I've

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Speaker 1: heard it over and over countless case is Cheryl McCollum

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Speaker 1: quote everybody needs. I mean, since day one, everyone said, Brooks,

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Speaker 1: how is the killer? Why did it take so long? Auntie?

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Speaker 1: You Cheryl McCollum, have you ever had those cases? And

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Speaker 1: you have to tell every single witness It doesn't matter

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Speaker 1: what everybody says, because very often what everybody says is

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Speaker 1: not true. That's not the killer. It turns out to

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Speaker 1: be someone completely different. But in this case, it's true.

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Speaker 1: Since the whole thing went down, he has been suspect

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Speaker 1: number one.

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Speaker 15: He's been suspect only one. There hasn't been anybody else.

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Speaker 15: But it's one of those situations what you know and

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Speaker 15: what you can prove is not the same thing. So

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Speaker 15: they had to be patient. They had to work this

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Speaker 15: case from every angle, which is what they did. They

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Speaker 15: got him once for theft, they got people that were

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Speaker 15: close to him for perjury. They even Prance grandma so

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Speaker 15: hard she invoked her Fifth Amendment. So they have worked

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Speaker 15: this thing beautifully. Yeah, as long as they possibly could.

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Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum, you gotta give them credit. It takes a

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Speaker 1: lot of doing to come down so hard on a granny.

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Speaker 1: She takes the fifth right, Okay, that is some serious,

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Speaker 1: serious questioning.

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Speaker 15: Straight up the police work.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the so called boyfriend of Crystal Rogers has been arrested,

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Speaker 1: and it has been a long time coming. Take a

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Speaker 1: listen to whas eleven.

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Speaker 19: Federal investigators accused help of intentionally causing the death of

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Speaker 19: Crystal Runchers and destroying, concealing, mutilating, or removing physical evidence

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Speaker 19: and connection to the crime. He was arrested without incident

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Speaker 19: while on a job site outside of Bardstown.

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Speaker 1: Joining me right now anchor wd RB out of Louisville,

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Speaker 1: Falling Glick, thank you for being with us. Fallon, tell

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Speaker 1: me about the arrest well.

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Speaker 13: Brook Chalk, her former boyfriend. He was arrested at a

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Speaker 13: work site and then he was then taken to the

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Speaker 13: Nelson County Jail. We have video of him and handcuffed

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Speaker 13: walking into the jail. Was taken to another county jail

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Speaker 13: called the Harding County Jail, and that is where he

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Speaker 13: is staying currently. And he's not going to get out

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Speaker 13: unless you posts that ten million dollar cash only bond.

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Speaker 1: Okay, ten million dollar cash bond, James shell Nut. That's

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Speaker 1: unlike a lot of bonds where you can put, for instance,

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Speaker 1: your house down is collateral. You get one hundred thousand

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Speaker 1: dollars bond. You got to come up with ten thousand

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Speaker 1: dollars money or collateral like a home. But a ten

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Speaker 1: million dollar bond, that's not going to happen anytime soon.

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Speaker 10: No, it's not going to happen anytime soon.

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Speaker 13: Then.

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Speaker 10: You know a lot of times with severe cases you

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Speaker 10: do see a cash bar but even with a cash bond,

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Speaker 10: that's a pretty high cash bond. They must feel pretty

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Speaker 10: confident in the case that they've got against him, and

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Speaker 10: so much the judge to set the bond that high.

446
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:01,120
Speaker 1: I mean, get real, shell Nut. But if the guy

447
00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:06,359
Speaker 1: has managed to outsmart police for this many years and

448
00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:09,800
Speaker 1: the disappearance and death of his girlfriend, Crystal Rogers, I

449
00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:12,600
Speaker 1: wouldn't let him set one toe outside of that jail

450
00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:16,520
Speaker 1: house because he could very likely slip away.

451
00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:19,600
Speaker 10: I wouldn't let him set outside the jail either. You know,

452
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:25,240
Speaker 10: this guy has sat and committed potentially a crime against

453
00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:29,120
Speaker 10: the mother of five children. He's covered it up, He's

454
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:32,200
Speaker 10: played games, and this guy's shown he's dangerous and he's

455
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:34,080
Speaker 10: a danger to the community.

456
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:36,040
Speaker 1: And a danger to any potential witnesses. Is why I

457
00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:38,320
Speaker 1: would let him out on bond. And you said the

458
00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:41,480
Speaker 1: case is so severe it calls for a high cash bond.

459
00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:43,200
Speaker 1: What do you mean by that? And what is a

460
00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:46,280
Speaker 1: cash bond as supposed to a regular bondshell Nut.

461
00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:50,280
Speaker 10: Well, it's severe because he's accused of murdering a mother

462
00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:54,920
Speaker 10: of five, of potentially covering this murder up taking steps

463
00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:58,000
Speaker 10: you know. Additionally, you know, we've got some implications as

464
00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:01,919
Speaker 10: to involvement in some other situation as well. And the

465
00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:05,960
Speaker 10: cash bond is set so that the judge can ensure that. Yeah,

466
00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:07,879
Speaker 10: I'm not giving him a no bond. So I'm going

467
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:12,159
Speaker 10: to meet the basic constitutional requirements of providing bail. But

468
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:14,240
Speaker 10: I will tell you this, if you're going to get out,

469
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:16,560
Speaker 10: we're going to be pretty sure that you're coming back.

470
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:19,080
Speaker 1: Okay, let me Q and A with myself for just

471
00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:22,520
Speaker 1: a moment. James shell Nutt was asked what's the difference

472
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:23,400
Speaker 1: in a cash.

473
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:24,280
Speaker 2: Bond and regular bond?

474
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:27,960
Speaker 1: Again, in regular bond you can put up collateral like

475
00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:32,880
Speaker 1: the value of your home. You can put up, for instance,

476
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:35,800
Speaker 1: real estate. And a cash bond you got to have cold,

477
00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:40,400
Speaker 1: hard cash. Everything else shell nut said was dead on. Guys,

478
00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:45,440
Speaker 1: this has been one long drawn out investigation. I want

479
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:49,240
Speaker 1: you to take a listen to Montica parkins WDRB.

480
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:51,439
Speaker 2: We saw the car pull in through the fence.

481
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:54,200
Speaker 19: As he got out of the car, I asked, where

482
00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:55,600
Speaker 19: is Crystal Rogers.

483
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:57,080
Speaker 2: He didn't say anything.

484
00:25:57,119 --> 00:25:58,880
Speaker 1: As he entered the back of the jail.

485
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:01,160
Speaker 19: The Nelson County Jail was also on hand.

486
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:07,760
Speaker 1: You know, Falling Glick joining me anchor WDRB. Why did

487
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:12,320
Speaker 1: the FBI have to be brought in to solve this case?

488
00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:16,560
Speaker 1: What about local law enforcement? What's the problem, Falling Blick.

489
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:19,880
Speaker 13: Well, local law Enforcement, the Sheriff's office. They have been

490
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:23,600
Speaker 13: on this since day one, and I think they just

491
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:28,040
Speaker 13: didn't have enough resources to pull this case together. And

492
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:31,159
Speaker 13: we know Sherry Ballor, the mother of Crystal Rogers, she

493
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:35,080
Speaker 13: has been the true champion for her daughter's case, keeping

494
00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 13: it in the spotlight. And you know, very soon after

495
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:41,600
Speaker 13: her daughter disappeared, she asked the FBI to come in,

496
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:45,920
Speaker 13: please take over this case, and that didn't happen until

497
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:48,520
Speaker 13: five years later. So the FBI, they've been on the

498
00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:51,840
Speaker 13: case now for three years, and when they come in

499
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:55,080
Speaker 13: that late, they have more work to do because they

500
00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 13: weren't there from day one, and so it has taken

501
00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:00,760
Speaker 13: a lot of time to pull all this evidence together.

502
00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:02,600
Speaker 8: Because we know they've.

503
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 13: Executed so many surge warrants at the Hawk family properties,

504
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:09,240
Speaker 13: the Hawk family farm, you know, that's the three hundred

505
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:12,199
Speaker 13: acre farm, so they have been there several times. And

506
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:15,399
Speaker 13: then not too long ago, they were at a home

507
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:18,240
Speaker 13: that Brooks House has built and they dug up the

508
00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:22,359
Speaker 13: driveway collected a ton of evidence there. So the evidence

509
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:26,320
Speaker 13: that the FBI has had to sort through is unimaginable.

510
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:31,680
Speaker 13: I know the prosecutor is saying that they have to

511
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:35,320
Speaker 13: turn over two terabytes worth of information in this case,

512
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:38,080
Speaker 13: so just a lot to go through here. We don't

513
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:40,400
Speaker 13: know what any of that evidence is, but two terabytes

514
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:40,679
Speaker 13: were its.

515
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:44,080
Speaker 1: It's a lot. Back to the question, Cheryl McCollum joining

516
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:50,439
Speaker 1: us from Zone seven, Cheryl McCollum, I was asking why

517
00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:54,400
Speaker 1: the FEDS had to be brought in. That was the question. Now,

518
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:57,040
Speaker 1: correct me if I'm wrong, Cheryl McCollum. But didn't the

519
00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:01,840
Speaker 1: boyfriend have relatives and or friends on the local police force?

520
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:06,560
Speaker 15: Correct, Nick Hout, And he was fired actually for interfering

521
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:07,840
Speaker 15: with a police investigation.

522
00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:12,879
Speaker 1: This investigation, this investigation absolutely so bringing the FBI, I

523
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 1: think was the right call for a multitude of reason.

524
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:18,240
Speaker 15: It appeared we have a kidnapping because her car was

525
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:20,720
Speaker 15: found somewhere else with the keys and cell phone in purse.

526
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:25,360
Speaker 15: So you know, they can do things rapidly that some

527
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:28,639
Speaker 15: local law enforcement maybe cannot do. But in this situation,

528
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:32,320
Speaker 15: you have someone that was the boyfriend who was the

529
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:35,960
Speaker 15: last person to be seen with her alive. He was

530
00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 15: visiting his family farm with her at the time.

531
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:43,720
Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan joining me, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University,

532
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 1: author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon at star

533
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:49,960
Speaker 1: of a hit series Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan

534
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:53,960
Speaker 1: Joe Scott. When you have a police officer on your

535
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:59,480
Speaker 1: force that is related to or connected to the suspect,

536
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:04,160
Speaker 1: the defendant, the person of interest, any of that, and

537
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:10,400
Speaker 1: that person has the opportunity, has been given the opportunity

538
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:15,640
Speaker 1: to tamper with evidence or impede the investigation in any way,

539
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 1: you screwed up. The whole kit and kaboodle has screwed

540
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:26,600
Speaker 1: up if you have allowed an officer access to information,

541
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 1: access to evidence, access or opportunity to pull strings behind

542
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:36,680
Speaker 1: the scenes. Oh hgwln Oh that's why you got to

543
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:39,400
Speaker 1: have the FBI in Forget about the cars found in

544
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:43,240
Speaker 1: another location, yes, which means a kidnapping, yes, which is

545
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:50,240
Speaker 1: under FBI jurisdiction. But still you had a cohort of

546
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:55,720
Speaker 1: the defendant on the police force pulling strings. It stinks, Morgan,

547
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:57,320
Speaker 1: It stinks.

548
00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:59,479
Speaker 18: Yes, it does. And here's the thing when you think

549
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:03,360
Speaker 18: about investigative team, like in this particular case, where you

550
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:07,000
Speaker 18: have the locals there within a bubble, there within their

551
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:09,720
Speaker 18: own investigative bubble, and it's kind of a closed loop

552
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:13,560
Speaker 18: where that information kind of circles around within that environment.

553
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:16,120
Speaker 18: You got the prosecutor and everybody else's in there. When

554
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:19,400
Speaker 18: you bring in the FBI, they're outside of that bubble.

555
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 18: But that's a good thing because their investigation is running parallel.

556
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:26,480
Speaker 18: And think about the FBI is this Having worked in

557
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:30,240
Speaker 18: many cases with them, they like to get information, but

558
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:32,880
Speaker 18: not a lot flows back out of them because they

559
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:34,200
Speaker 18: keep their own closed loop.

560
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:36,600
Speaker 1: Can I boil that down for you, Joe Scott. They

561
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:40,840
Speaker 1: don't give a flying fig what anybody in town thinks.

562
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:46,200
Speaker 1: Who's second cousin related to mama's sass and blah blah blah.

563
00:30:46,240 --> 00:31:09,240
Speaker 1: They don't care. Prime stories with Nancy Grace. Boyfriend Lover

564
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:13,760
Speaker 1: Brooks Holck will stay behind bars on a ten million

565
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:18,000
Speaker 1: dollar bond, now charged in the murder of his girlfriend,

566
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:23,440
Speaker 1: the mother of five beautiful Crystal Rogers. Take a listen

567
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:23,680
Speaker 1: to this.

568
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 20: Chrystl Rogers, a mother of five, disappeared in July twenty fifteen.

569
00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:30,480
Speaker 20: In October of that year, the Nelson County Sheriff's office

570
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:33,520
Speaker 20: named for boyfriend Brooks Hawk. The main suspect, was never

571
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:36,720
Speaker 20: arrested or charged. The FBI ripped up the driveway of

572
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 20: a home how built. And just last year, the FBI

573
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:42,040
Speaker 20: was back of the Halk farm for a five day search.

574
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 20: On June twenty first of this year, another man, Joseph Lawson,

575
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:49,120
Speaker 20: was indicted for tampering with physical evidence in the Rogers case.

576
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:52,560
Speaker 20: On July twenty fourth, Lawson was indicted on a conspiracy

577
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:56,000
Speaker 20: to commit murder charge. We have learned Lawson's dad worked

578
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 20: for Hawck. On September seventh, Lawson pleaded not guilty.

579
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:02,560
Speaker 1: And since circuit court you were hearing our friends at

580
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:08,200
Speaker 1: w d r B. Who is the co defendant Joseph

581
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:12,400
Speaker 1: Lawson back to falling Glick and what do we believe

582
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:13,479
Speaker 1: his involvement is.

583
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:17,720
Speaker 13: Well, it's really still unclear what exactly his involvement was,

584
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:23,680
Speaker 13: but we know his father, Steve Lawson, had called Brooks

585
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:28,800
Speaker 13: how the night Crystal Crystal disappeared, and that phone call

586
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:32,640
Speaker 13: Brooks hougue Is asked about that phone call during his

587
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 13: police interrogation and he didn't really seem to remember what

588
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:40,200
Speaker 13: it was about. So he called Steve Lawson and said, hey,

589
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:43,600
Speaker 13: do you remember what I was calling you about that night?

590
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:45,720
Speaker 13: And he goes, oh, sure. He wanted a number for

591
00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:50,000
Speaker 13: a house because he builds homes and he has all

592
00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:53,200
Speaker 13: these rental properties, and so it was a late night

593
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:57,760
Speaker 13: phone call, only lasted several seconds, and mister Lawson had

594
00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:01,720
Speaker 13: said he needed something from Crystal. And then the detective asked, well,

595
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:03,680
Speaker 13: if Crystal was right with you in the truck, why

596
00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:05,800
Speaker 13: didn't you just ask her then? And he said, oh,

597
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:08,959
Speaker 13: you just figure out on Monday what he wanted. So

598
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:11,000
Speaker 13: it was a suspicious phone call.

599
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:14,360
Speaker 1: And now that father, Stephen Lawson, has been arrested as well.

600
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:17,120
Speaker 1: He has been indanted by a grand jury with criminal

601
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:21,000
Speaker 1: conspiracy to commit murder and tampering with physical evidence. To

602
00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 1: doctor Jeff Kalshewski, forensic psychologist and author of Dark Side Way.

603
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:30,200
Speaker 17: In so, one of the things when people are trying

604
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:36,280
Speaker 17: to recollect and experience or an incident, when you are

605
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:40,160
Speaker 17: trying to fabricate it in your mind in the moment,

606
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:42,600
Speaker 17: in other words, you're trying to create the lies during

607
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:46,480
Speaker 17: the moment, you're going to miss things. You're going to

608
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:49,240
Speaker 17: have these blocks of times. You may have went into

609
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 17: that interview already having your lie planned out in your head,

610
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 17: but once you're under in police police interrogation, they're going

611
00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:59,480
Speaker 17: to ask you questions you didn't anticipate and that you

612
00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:04,440
Speaker 17: had not created the false answer for So it's great

613
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:10,480
Speaker 17: hallmark when a suspect is in an interrogation and they

614
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:13,920
Speaker 17: are guilty, they're not going to know how to answer

615
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:16,560
Speaker 17: many of these questions. They're going to show blocks of times,

616
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:20,000
Speaker 17: they're going to have incomplete answers and sometimes even contradict themselves.

617
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:25,040
Speaker 1: I also question brook Hawk about his reaction when Crystalton

618
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:28,280
Speaker 1: didn't show up to a get together a July fourth

619
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:32,040
Speaker 1: get together is let me just say, nonchalant, and that's

620
00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:36,319
Speaker 1: certainly putting perfume on the pig Listen Brooks, did you

621
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:40,040
Speaker 1: go on to the July the fourth get together that day?

622
00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:41,399
Speaker 8: Yes?

623
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:44,080
Speaker 1: I did, even though you didn't know where she was.

624
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:48,320
Speaker 14: Well, I was expecting I'm putting in a phone call

625
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:54,719
Speaker 14: that morning and then around lunch and usually the maximum

626
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:57,360
Speaker 14: period of time that she has stayed gone that it

627
00:34:57,400 --> 00:34:59,440
Speaker 14: has only been like a day to the day and

628
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:02,719
Speaker 14: a half the most. And as a result of that,

629
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:04,719
Speaker 14: I thought that she would.

630
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:05,719
Speaker 1: Did you try to call her?

631
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:09,080
Speaker 14: I'm sorry I didn't hear you, ma'am.

632
00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:11,360
Speaker 1: Did you try to call her during that time?

633
00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:13,319
Speaker 12: Not?

634
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:18,200
Speaker 14: While I was there there at the at the fourth

635
00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:21,960
Speaker 14: and I called her prior to leaving the head in

636
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:23,279
Speaker 14: that direction, yes, ma'am.

637
00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:27,120
Speaker 1: So when she doesn't show up to a party, a

638
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:31,480
Speaker 1: big party that Crystal was supposed to attend, but she

639
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:33,960
Speaker 1: doesn't show up, he does nothing.

640
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:36,759
Speaker 15: On an investigation, Nancy, I usually keep two lists, what

641
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:39,480
Speaker 15: they did and what they didn't do. This list of

642
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:42,400
Speaker 15: what he did not do. He didn't report her missing.

643
00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:43,399
Speaker 15: Her mama did.

644
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 21: He doesn't call around her family and everybody else saying, hey,

645
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:47,719
Speaker 21: where is she?

646
00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:50,279
Speaker 15: We got these five kids somebody needs to help me

647
00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:53,280
Speaker 15: take care of He didn't do that. He don't search

648
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:57,719
Speaker 15: for her. He don't demand that the police helped find her.

649
00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:01,560
Speaker 21: He doesn't even today demand the police find the real killer.

650
00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:04,399
Speaker 21: He's not making a plea right now saying, y'all got

651
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:05,640
Speaker 21: the rolled person.

652
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 1: Who called nine one one in this case, Fellen Glick,

653
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:12,240
Speaker 1: WDRB who called to report her missing.

654
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:15,480
Speaker 13: Oh, it was the mom ary valor. She called her

655
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:19,600
Speaker 13: and reported her missing. And that same day she saw

656
00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:22,239
Speaker 13: Brooks how kind a parking lot somewhere because they just

657
00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:25,160
Speaker 13: always seemed to run into each other. It's a small town,

658
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:29,839
Speaker 13: and he just seemed very unconcerned that she was in

659
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:32,440
Speaker 13: fact missing. And I want to point out too, when

660
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:35,480
Speaker 13: you're kind of talking about it, just not answering questions

661
00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:39,480
Speaker 13: during the interrogation. And police have said about him and

662
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:44,320
Speaker 13: his brother, they both had convenient cases of amnesia because

663
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:47,839
Speaker 13: whenever they asked about something unrelated to Crystal, they gave

664
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:49,360
Speaker 13: very detailed answers.

665
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:52,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, anytime they could trash Crystal, you mean, anytime they

666
00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:54,879
Speaker 1: could say something bad about her, they would. They had

667
00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:58,279
Speaker 1: all that memorize, all of her movements were memorized, but

668
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:02,080
Speaker 1: they couldn't say a thing about their movements were during

669
00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:08,080
Speaker 1: their lapses of memory. Is the death of Crystal Rogers

670
00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:12,600
Speaker 1: connected to a bigger picture? Take a list to our

671
00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:14,960
Speaker 1: cut two one two whas eleven.

672
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:19,120
Speaker 19: They are three of Kentucky's most high profile unsolved cases,

673
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:24,160
Speaker 19: the ambush killing of Birdstown police officer Jason Ellis, disappearance

674
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:27,600
Speaker 19: of mother of five, Crystal Rogers, and fatal shooting of

675
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:31,800
Speaker 19: Rogers dad Tommy Baller. The FBI previously made it clear

676
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:35,080
Speaker 19: they are the lead on the Rogers case, but investigating

677
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:38,320
Speaker 19: all three, saying this in a one on one interview

678
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:40,399
Speaker 19: back in twenty twenty, it is.

679
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:44,320
Speaker 18: Very rare to have all of these types of cases

680
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:47,640
Speaker 18: which are potentially connected in a small community.

681
00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:52,439
Speaker 1: To Cheryl McCollum, what would the connection of the other

682
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:55,520
Speaker 1: cases be two Crystal Rogers.

683
00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:58,000
Speaker 15: Nante Again, I think we have to look at all

684
00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:00,839
Speaker 15: of these people that are connected. You got Brookes, You've

685
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:03,279
Speaker 15: got his brother, You've got the coworker and his father.

686
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:06,920
Speaker 15: You've got grandma, You've got Singleton. All of these people

687
00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:10,480
Speaker 15: have things in common, whether it's making phone calls, the perjury,

688
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:15,399
Speaker 15: the theft, the lion, you know, the keeping these secrets

689
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:19,520
Speaker 15: since two thoy fifteen. So you have to wonder why

690
00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:21,880
Speaker 15: would Singleton get.

691
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:26,080
Speaker 21: Thirty eight charges of perjury? Why would this coworker accept

692
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:29,120
Speaker 21: these phone calls but then not tell anybody? Why are

693
00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:32,360
Speaker 21: they talking about these rental properties? So all of these dots,

694
00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:35,640
Speaker 21: you're going to have to connect with these people that

695
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:38,480
Speaker 21: chose for eight years.

696
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:41,400
Speaker 15: To not come forward, not tell what they know, but

697
00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:43,279
Speaker 15: dig themselves into a deeper hole.

698
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:47,320
Speaker 1: To you Fan and Blick, what is the possible connection

699
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:51,760
Speaker 1: between Crystal Rogers case and the other murders.

700
00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:55,560
Speaker 13: So family and a lot of the community, they believe

701
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:59,680
Speaker 13: that Tommy ballor Crystal's dad, was so involved in trying

702
00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:03,879
Speaker 13: to find Crystal and doing his own interrogation and investigation

703
00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:08,440
Speaker 13: to find his daughter. They believe that Tommy Ballard probably

704
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:12,600
Speaker 13: would have figured it out himself, and they believe that

705
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:16,360
Speaker 13: he was killed because maybe he was getting close to

706
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:18,880
Speaker 13: finding something out that he shouldn't have. And then the

707
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:23,120
Speaker 13: days leading up to his death, Sherry Ballard, his wife,

708
00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:25,640
Speaker 13: said he felt like he was being followed.

709
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:29,680
Speaker 1: And what about the law enforcement officer, sure Nick how.

710
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:33,000
Speaker 13: Who he talked about, who got fired by the police chief.

711
00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:37,719
Speaker 13: He worked the same shift as Jason Ellis who was

712
00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:41,600
Speaker 13: ambushed and killed on his drive home from work one

713
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:44,759
Speaker 13: night when he saw some debris on the road, got

714
00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:47,440
Speaker 13: out to move these tree limbs off the road and

715
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:50,480
Speaker 13: that's when he got shot multiple times.

716
00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:52,000
Speaker 2: And killed execution style.

717
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:57,000
Speaker 1: And he worked on the same shift with the definite

718
00:39:57,080 --> 00:40:03,439
Speaker 1: boyfriend's brother on the force. Wonder what he knew from

719
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:08,640
Speaker 1: working that shift. Wonder what if anything he knew. We

720
00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:14,120
Speaker 1: wait as all of these facts unfold. Goodbye, Find