1
00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:06,720
Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind from how Stuff

2
00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:13,840
Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind.

3
00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:16,360
Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and my name is Trulie Douglas.

4
00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:19,200
Speaker 1: We just finished recording an episode titled how to Think

5
00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:22,440
Speaker 1: Like a Child, and now we're breaking into this idea

6
00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:24,480
Speaker 1: that we are all scientists. And you're probably wondering, why

7
00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:27,040
Speaker 1: aren't you guys hitting this information right now? Um, And

8
00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:29,040
Speaker 1: certainly we've touched on some of these topics before in

9
00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:30,920
Speaker 1: the past, and it's because we're hitting the road with

10
00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:34,919
Speaker 1: this act. Uh. One week from now the time we're

11
00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:37,080
Speaker 1: recording it, we're gonna be at the E four conference

12
00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:41,879
Speaker 1: Excellence in Elementary Engineering in the Twin Cities, and we're

13
00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:43,760
Speaker 1: gonna give a keynote when we're gonna talk about this

14
00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:46,680
Speaker 1: idea that we are all scientists, because we're gonna be

15
00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:49,479
Speaker 1: talking to elementary school teachers who are who want to

16
00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:52,520
Speaker 1: engage with children and and get them excited about science

17
00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:56,240
Speaker 1: and engineering, and there's often this false idea that it's

18
00:00:56,280 --> 00:00:59,040
Speaker 1: something alien to them, where it's kind of like, let's

19
00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:02,040
Speaker 1: let's give some children into a room and let's teach

20
00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:04,720
Speaker 1: them to love sardines and broccoli. You know, let's let's

21
00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:08,199
Speaker 1: get them excited about asparagus. But no, it's it's it's

22
00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:11,000
Speaker 1: something that they already have in them, and it's it's

23
00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:14,040
Speaker 1: it's ultimately more about about connecting with the inner scientists

24
00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:16,240
Speaker 1: that is in all of us. Right, we're gonna make

25
00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:19,040
Speaker 1: the case today that science is not a part of us,

26
00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:22,440
Speaker 1: it is actually intrinsic to our nature. And I will

27
00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:27,000
Speaker 1: say that having worked on this podcast, I feel like, uh,

28
00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:30,520
Speaker 1: it's very interesting to look at science as something that

29
00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:34,080
Speaker 1: is innate rather than, as I've mentioned before, looking through

30
00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:37,240
Speaker 1: the windows of science, because I feel like this podcast

31
00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:41,639
Speaker 1: has really informed my worldview on how it's not apart

32
00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:45,360
Speaker 1: from us, how every gesture, word, thought can be pinned

33
00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:47,600
Speaker 1: back to what you know. We've often talked about the

34
00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:50,920
Speaker 1: magic of reality, and when I say the magic of reality,

35
00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:54,559
Speaker 1: it's this idea that a single celled organism created an

36
00:01:54,640 --> 00:02:00,480
Speaker 1: unbroken lineage extending fourth and time four billion years until

37
00:02:00,600 --> 00:02:04,000
Speaker 1: we are sitting here before you guys, recording our voices.

38
00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:07,920
Speaker 1: To me. That is amazing and it all points back

39
00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:11,639
Speaker 1: to the fact that science has helped frame our understanding

40
00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:14,440
Speaker 1: of how we came to be in this world. Um,

41
00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:16,680
Speaker 1: as well as why things are the way that they are. So,

42
00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:18,880
Speaker 1: as we discussed in the previous podcast about being like

43
00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:20,799
Speaker 1: a child, one of the big things here is that

44
00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:23,200
Speaker 1: as as we get older and as we become adults,

45
00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:25,600
Speaker 1: we take on all these different world views. We take

46
00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:27,799
Speaker 1: on all these preconceived notions of how what the world

47
00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:30,079
Speaker 1: is and how it works, about who we are, how

48
00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:32,440
Speaker 1: do we fit into the world, What is our group,

49
00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:35,440
Speaker 1: what is our society? Who are the others? What laws

50
00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:38,240
Speaker 1: are in place that we're obeying, What laws are in

51
00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:40,760
Speaker 1: place that we are neglecting, What laws are in place

52
00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:43,720
Speaker 1: that the other guys and gals out there should be obeying,

53
00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:47,920
Speaker 1: but are not. All these complex, illusory ideas. We end

54
00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:51,240
Speaker 1: up building this this fortress of ideas through which we

55
00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:53,480
Speaker 1: try to understand the world around us. And we use

56
00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:56,160
Speaker 1: a lot of labels, right like you begin to understand

57
00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:59,200
Speaker 1: yourself as you're growing up, right and you people say

58
00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:01,880
Speaker 1: that you're good at X, Y or z, and then

59
00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:04,680
Speaker 1: it's a liberal, you're a conservative, You're you're in the model,

60
00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:08,520
Speaker 1: You're you're creative or number minded, you're you're very sensible.

61
00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:11,959
Speaker 1: You know. We end up taking on all these labels,

62
00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:14,800
Speaker 1: pinning them to our jacket and and that's who we

63
00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:17,880
Speaker 1: are and that's what the world is now. But I

64
00:03:17,919 --> 00:03:21,440
Speaker 1: would argue that in addition to what other label or

65
00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:24,560
Speaker 1: the many labels that we can put on ourselves, we

66
00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:29,520
Speaker 1: are all inherently engineers. Right. Okay, Now, think you're probably

67
00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:31,000
Speaker 1: like kind of know what you're talking about. I don't

68
00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:34,520
Speaker 1: use blueprints, or maybe I do use blueprints, but I

69
00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:38,400
Speaker 1: don't build things times. Yeah, but now think about your

70
00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:42,280
Speaker 1: childhood and think about treehouses or building something. You don't

71
00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:45,320
Speaker 1: have to build a treehouse, It could be at all

72
00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:47,640
Speaker 1: the things that if you're a lego person like I was,

73
00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:50,839
Speaker 1: and I am not an engineer, I have to check

74
00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:53,520
Speaker 1: things two or three times when I do simple calculations

75
00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:56,080
Speaker 1: with a Google calculator. You know, I'm that type of person.

76
00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:59,000
Speaker 1: I'm more of a liberal arts person. But as a child,

77
00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:01,720
Speaker 1: I had the out of legos and had build everything

78
00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:04,040
Speaker 1: under the sun. You know, I'd see a helicopter, I'd

79
00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:06,000
Speaker 1: have to build that helicopter. Then I have to crash

80
00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:08,760
Speaker 1: the helicopter because we shut down by another one. That

81
00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:10,960
Speaker 1: was the evil helicopter. But then I would build another one,

82
00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:12,240
Speaker 1: and then it would be maybe I'd build build a

83
00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:14,640
Speaker 1: building or a tank. I mean so even as as

84
00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:16,640
Speaker 1: a child playing with blocks, or even if we're not

85
00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:20,479
Speaker 1: playing with actual physical blocks, we're building things. We're building stories,

86
00:04:20,520 --> 00:04:25,320
Speaker 1: we're building ideas, we're engineering something. When we're engaging in play, well,

87
00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:28,400
Speaker 1: you're also learning how the world works, how gravity works, right,

88
00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:30,600
Speaker 1: and if you don't stack those blocks in a way

89
00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:33,520
Speaker 1: that can support weight, then whatever you're creating is going

90
00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:37,520
Speaker 1: to fall or just not work out. So every kid

91
00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:40,400
Speaker 1: wants to build a giant tower, but you quickly learned

92
00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:42,040
Speaker 1: that you've got to You've got to figure out how

93
00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:43,760
Speaker 1: the base is gonna work. You gotta build a broader

94
00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:45,480
Speaker 1: base to make the tower go up all the way.

95
00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:47,800
Speaker 1: Otherwise it's just gonna be blocks falling over and making

96
00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:49,480
Speaker 1: a loud no. Yeah, I see that. I've seen this

97
00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:52,719
Speaker 1: so many times with kids, and kids can, by the way,

98
00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:55,920
Speaker 1: with legos, and I know everybody knows this, but really

99
00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:58,680
Speaker 1: they can create some of the most uh some of

100
00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:01,800
Speaker 1: the coolest, most innovative buildings I've ever seen, because they

101
00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:04,200
Speaker 1: will take these risks and put things where they're not

102
00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:06,320
Speaker 1: really supposed to go. But then again they figure out

103
00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:10,320
Speaker 1: how things are weighted. So again we don't think about it,

104
00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:13,320
Speaker 1: but this is really the mind of an engineer at play.

105
00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:16,720
Speaker 1: And by the way, kids are also born Euclideans. So

106
00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:18,839
Speaker 1: when I say kids are this, that also means that

107
00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:21,920
Speaker 1: we are Euclideans. And when I say Euclideans, I mean

108
00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:25,920
Speaker 1: that we use geometric clues to navigate the world. Because

109
00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:28,720
Speaker 1: you have bottom line, we are born into a world

110
00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:32,719
Speaker 1: of numerous fixed and movable objects. We live in a

111
00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:35,640
Speaker 1: in a world of space and time. As a creature,

112
00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:38,040
Speaker 1: you know, if you're a human and you're listening to this,

113
00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:39,880
Speaker 1: this applies to you. If you're if you're a cat

114
00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:42,120
Speaker 1: and you're listening to this, or a dog, this applies

115
00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:45,920
Speaker 1: to you though in kudos for understanding the English language podcast.

116
00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:48,800
Speaker 1: But you have to engage in this world that is physical,

117
00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:51,880
Speaker 1: that has space, that has time, that has physical laws

118
00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:57,400
Speaker 1: governing what goes on. So part of our our evolutionary

119
00:05:57,440 --> 00:06:00,520
Speaker 1: advantage is our ability to understand in that world to

120
00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:02,960
Speaker 1: interact with and to do that we have to have

121
00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:05,680
Speaker 1: a certain amount of numbers, since a certain understanding of

122
00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:09,080
Speaker 1: how physics work more or less inborn. We've discussed in

123
00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:13,000
Speaker 1: the past their concepts such as say teleportation, you try

124
00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:16,240
Speaker 1: and you try and sell a kid on the idea

125
00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:19,280
Speaker 1: that teleportation exists. They're not gonna believe it because they

126
00:06:19,320 --> 00:06:22,240
Speaker 1: already have it in them in their selves. They're inborn

127
00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:24,880
Speaker 1: this disbelief in the in the idea that could even

128
00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:28,400
Speaker 1: be possible, because it doesn't conform to reality. To believe

129
00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:31,680
Speaker 1: in something like that, you have to painstakingly build this

130
00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:35,320
Speaker 1: fortress of ideas and beliefs as an adult, and then

131
00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:39,200
Speaker 1: you can make the impossible seem plausible. Right, Because even

132
00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:42,320
Speaker 1: little babies know about object permanence, meaning that I could

133
00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:45,000
Speaker 1: have two cups. In one cup, I could deposit two

134
00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:48,240
Speaker 1: cookies in another cup, I could pretend to be depositing cookies,

135
00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:51,400
Speaker 1: same motions and everything. They will always want them one

136
00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:54,000
Speaker 1: with the actual cookies in it. They understand that that

137
00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:59,440
Speaker 1: is mimicking, that that is not object permanence. Uh. In addition,

138
00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:03,080
Speaker 1: kids using geometric clues, they're more likely to use the

139
00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:06,200
Speaker 1: length of walls in a room to remember where toys hidden.

140
00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:09,000
Speaker 1: And this is true of kids even at ages three

141
00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:11,480
Speaker 1: and four, when they can name the color of the

142
00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:15,960
Speaker 1: wall um to orient themselves, they still navigate rooms by

143
00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:19,680
Speaker 1: length references. I also see this with my daughter at

144
00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:21,920
Speaker 1: play with puzzles. You know. She she will be four

145
00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:27,560
Speaker 1: in January, and she loves to put together puzzles using

146
00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:31,000
Speaker 1: solely the shape. Now she can read and she can

147
00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:34,320
Speaker 1: use the colors to try to piece together the clues

148
00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:36,760
Speaker 1: of how they fit together. But always in this drives

149
00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:39,520
Speaker 1: me crazy because to me, I'm oriented in the other

150
00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:41,400
Speaker 1: way where I'm like, hey, that says that that's part

151
00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:45,080
Speaker 1: of the North Carolina for the for the map um

152
00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:47,520
Speaker 1: she will always try to see how it fits together.

153
00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:51,320
Speaker 1: And this is really interesting. Kids that play with puzzles

154
00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:55,600
Speaker 1: between the ages of two inform perform significantly better and

155
00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:59,320
Speaker 1: spatial tests by ages five and six. And again this

156
00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:03,080
Speaker 1: is this idea that they can mentally transform shapes, and

157
00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:06,080
Speaker 1: this turns out to be a really big predictor of

158
00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:12,040
Speaker 1: abilities in science, technology, engineering, and mathematics. What we call stem.

159
00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:16,040
Speaker 1: Another inborn ability that kids have that adults forget and

160
00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:19,680
Speaker 1: then have to relearn is Bayesian logic. Beaesian logic is

161
00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:23,080
Speaker 1: a branch of probability theory that allows one to model

162
00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:26,120
Speaker 1: uncertainty about the world and outcomes of interest in that

163
00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:30,040
Speaker 1: world related to common sense knowledge and observational evidence. So

164
00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:33,960
Speaker 1: this is a concept that plays heavily into statistical evaluation

165
00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:37,120
Speaker 1: of things such as ongoing elections, etcetera, any kind of

166
00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:38,719
Speaker 1: situation where there's a there's a certain a group of

167
00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:42,040
Speaker 1: chaos or unpredictability. It's also something that is key to

168
00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:46,679
Speaker 1: our creation of aiyes of artificial intelligence, because we want

169
00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:50,160
Speaker 1: to create something that thinks intelligently and can analyze the

170
00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:53,680
Speaker 1: world and create believable recommendations on what's going to happen.

171
00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:57,320
Speaker 1: So we're using Baisian logic to create the machines will

172
00:08:57,320 --> 00:08:59,920
Speaker 1: solve the problems of the future. But Baisian logic is

173
00:08:59,920 --> 00:09:03,040
Speaker 1: already present in children. Experiments have shown that when a

174
00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:05,360
Speaker 1: child looks at the world, they're able to weigh the

175
00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:08,240
Speaker 1: observational data in the statistical data that they have observed

176
00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:10,920
Speaker 1: in a way that is free of the conflicting judgments

177
00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:13,560
Speaker 1: that adult humans bring to the table. Yeah, I mean

178
00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:16,280
Speaker 1: much like looking at a puzzle and seeing what fits

179
00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:20,920
Speaker 1: and what doesn't. Bayesian logic necessitates that children use a

180
00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:25,360
Speaker 1: pattern of co variation. Co variation meaning correlated variation of

181
00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:28,800
Speaker 1: two or more variables. And we talked about this blicket

182
00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:31,199
Speaker 1: machine in the last podcast How to Think Like a Child,

183
00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:34,360
Speaker 1: and this blicket machine is something that is lit up

184
00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:37,000
Speaker 1: when you place an object on it. This object can

185
00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:41,160
Speaker 1: be vary shape, sizes, colors, and kids will again use

186
00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:45,600
Speaker 1: this co variation correlated variation of two or more variables

187
00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:49,560
Speaker 1: to realize that if they do this, then this happens.

188
00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:53,640
Speaker 1: If you do that, then that happens. Now, by the way,

189
00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:57,760
Speaker 1: these objects aren't static, meaning that you know, it's not

190
00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:01,440
Speaker 1: just the red squares that make the machine go. You know,

191
00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:05,360
Speaker 1: it could be the orange squares that have blue dots

192
00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:07,920
Speaker 1: on them, or the triangle and so on and so forth.

193
00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:10,240
Speaker 1: So they are taking in a lot of data and

194
00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:13,280
Speaker 1: trying to figure out, you know, like the three types

195
00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:17,439
Speaker 1: of shapes that are this color and this configuration stacked

196
00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:21,199
Speaker 1: on top will make this machine go. That's actually pretty sophisticated.

197
00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:24,520
Speaker 1: And as we mentioned last time in our podcast and

198
00:10:24,559 --> 00:10:26,959
Speaker 1: how to Think Like a Child, kids are actually better

199
00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:30,880
Speaker 1: in this exercise and figure out how certain toys work

200
00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:33,880
Speaker 1: on the blicket machine. Then adults are, which brings us

201
00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:37,120
Speaker 1: to mathematics. And this is a big one. As adults,

202
00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:39,560
Speaker 1: so many of us, myself included, throw any kind of

203
00:10:39,559 --> 00:10:41,640
Speaker 1: thing mathematical at us being and figuring out how to

204
00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:44,480
Speaker 1: split a bill at a dinner party or trying to

205
00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:46,760
Speaker 1: figure out I've got it down now, but for a

206
00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:48,960
Speaker 1: while there, I didn't even understand how to properly figured

207
00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:53,240
Speaker 1: tip before I figured out just generally that bad at math,

208
00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:55,560
Speaker 1: and so we often fall into this idea that that

209
00:10:55,679 --> 00:10:57,880
Speaker 1: we're born bad at math and then we just simply

210
00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:00,600
Speaker 1: fail to learn it. And certainly there's a whole case

211
00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:03,080
Speaker 1: to be made about what needs to be done to

212
00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:06,680
Speaker 1: to engage children and the age students so more thoroughly

213
00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:09,840
Speaker 1: in mathematics. I do want to mention too, that there

214
00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:13,440
Speaker 1: is no gender difference in abilities in science and math.

215
00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:16,680
Speaker 1: And this has been something of subject that comes up

216
00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:19,280
Speaker 1: again and again. But if you want more information on it,

217
00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:24,240
Speaker 1: check out Elizabeth Spelky spe l k E and her

218
00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:28,120
Speaker 1: debate with Stephen Pinker on this point and the thirty

219
00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:31,080
Speaker 1: odd years of research into child development in which she

220
00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:33,880
Speaker 1: makes the case that this does not exist. This is

221
00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:36,520
Speaker 1: some cultural garbage that we tend to heap on kids,

222
00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:38,800
Speaker 1: because again, we all have to interact with the same world.

223
00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:42,080
Speaker 1: We're all organisms that have all the equipment to interact

224
00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:44,559
Speaker 1: with that world, and part of that is a number sense. Okay,

225
00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:48,920
Speaker 1: so our brains naturally extract numbers from the surrounding environment

226
00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:51,559
Speaker 1: in the same way that we identify colors. All right,

227
00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:54,360
Speaker 1: we call it number cents, and our brains come fully

228
00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:56,560
Speaker 1: equipped with it from birth. In fact, studies even show

229
00:11:56,600 --> 00:11:59,280
Speaker 1: that while infants have no graphs of human number system,

230
00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:01,760
Speaker 1: you know, and it doesn't know what five is, doesn't

231
00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:04,120
Speaker 1: know what ten is, but they can tell the difference

232
00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:07,560
Speaker 1: between five and ten on a on a non numerical

233
00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:10,840
Speaker 1: level because they can tell identify change in quantity. Show

234
00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:14,280
Speaker 1: a kid five cookies and a kid ten cookies, and

235
00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:16,120
Speaker 1: they will know the difference they have. There is an

236
00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:20,520
Speaker 1: inborn math that governs that that kind of quantity differential. Yeah,

237
00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:23,520
Speaker 1: they are essentially born accountants. And you will see this

238
00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:27,199
Speaker 1: with babies who can estimate quantities and distinguish between more

239
00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:31,160
Speaker 1: and less. For instance, and an experiment in which babies

240
00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:34,079
Speaker 1: were shown an a ray of four dots and then

241
00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:36,679
Speaker 1: an a ray of twelve dots, it turns out that

242
00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:39,000
Speaker 1: they will pay attention to the four dots sequence when

243
00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:43,679
Speaker 1: four sounds are played, okay, correlating that, and they will

244
00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:47,440
Speaker 1: gaze at the twelve dots when the twelve sounds are played,

245
00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:50,280
Speaker 1: even when the sounds are manipulated in terms of the

246
00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:55,120
Speaker 1: note length. Kids still no babies still know that twelve

247
00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:58,120
Speaker 1: noted song has to do with the twelve dots and

248
00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:00,680
Speaker 1: that four noted song has to do with the four dot. Yeah,

249
00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:03,200
Speaker 1: we can even drag in your own imaging research into it,

250
00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:04,880
Speaker 1: and we found that when you when you look at

251
00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:07,240
Speaker 1: an infant's brain, when they're say, looking at the five

252
00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:12,400
Speaker 1: cookie tin cookie difference, they're actually engaging in logarithmic counting, alright,

253
00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:16,720
Speaker 1: counting based on integral increases in physical quantity. And this

254
00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:20,280
Speaker 1: is so apparently this is something that we move away

255
00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:22,839
Speaker 1: from as we get older, this logarithmic thinking, because we

256
00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:26,920
Speaker 1: think in different modes of mathematics. But again, route to

257
00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:30,680
Speaker 1: the baby, route to children is this logarithmic thinking. So

258
00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:34,080
Speaker 1: we end up taking on human number systems. But the

259
00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:36,520
Speaker 1: thing is, again, the human number systems are even this

260
00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:39,280
Speaker 1: is not something that's coming from the outside. It's it's

261
00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:41,720
Speaker 1: something that's coming from within. At some point in our

262
00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:45,040
Speaker 1: ancient past, prehistoric humans begin to develop a means of

263
00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:48,240
Speaker 1: augmenting their natural number sense, all right, they started counting

264
00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:50,720
Speaker 1: on their fingers and toes, and that's why so many

265
00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:54,640
Speaker 1: numerical systems depend on groups of five, ten, or twenty,

266
00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:57,840
Speaker 1: So based ten or decimal system stem from the use

267
00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:01,800
Speaker 1: of both hands, while base twenty or vegicial systems are

268
00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:04,400
Speaker 1: based on the use of fingers and toes. Yeah, these

269
00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:08,440
Speaker 1: vegicimal systems, I think are really interesting. Larger numbers are

270
00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:11,920
Speaker 1: simply multiples of ten, right, because that would be a

271
00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:15,800
Speaker 1: base of ten system. For example, ten tens make and

272
00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:18,040
Speaker 1: we're so used to our base ten system that it

273
00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:20,720
Speaker 1: may seem like the only possibility. But the green Landic

274
00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:23,360
Speaker 1: number system has a base of twenty and others have

275
00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:26,520
Speaker 1: a base of five, and of all the number systems

276
00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:29,400
Speaker 1: ever invented, five, ten, and twenty are the most common.

277
00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:33,200
Speaker 1: So again, if you doubt that mathematics is something that

278
00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:35,440
Speaker 1: is inherent to you, all you have to do is

279
00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:38,720
Speaker 1: split down at your fingers. In fact, in Greenland, the

280
00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:44,360
Speaker 1: word for seven, which is pronounced our punick marluk translate

281
00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:48,760
Speaker 1: or something like that, translates as second hand to okay,

282
00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:50,520
Speaker 1: So you put one hand up and then two fingers

283
00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:53,359
Speaker 1: from from the next hand, and then thirteen is translated

284
00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:57,000
Speaker 1: as first foot three, meaning both of your hands plus

285
00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:03,160
Speaker 1: your first foot three toes. So again our digits are fingers.

286
00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:06,120
Speaker 1: Just even think about the terminology have been the gold

287
00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:10,360
Speaker 1: standard for how we itemize the world around us. All right,

288
00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:12,360
Speaker 1: we're gonna take a quick break on that note, and

289
00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:14,960
Speaker 1: when we come back, we're gonna shift a little outside

290
00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:17,120
Speaker 1: of the mathematical understanding the world and we're gonna get

291
00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:20,240
Speaker 1: into a little something called storytelling, because, believe it or not,

292
00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:28,040
Speaker 1: storytelling is science before we move on to storyteller. So

293
00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:30,320
Speaker 1: that's just reminded as you were talking in that sponsortive

294
00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:33,720
Speaker 1: message about mathematics and certain truths that they hold, and

295
00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:35,760
Speaker 1: I was thinking about the Fibonacci numbers, which is that

296
00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:39,360
Speaker 1: sequence of numbers, the golden ratio that we see again

297
00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:41,600
Speaker 1: and again in nature. Yeah, it's like in a snail shell,

298
00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:45,600
Speaker 1: it's in some cauliflower. You see this mathematical truth making

299
00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:49,320
Speaker 1: it self evident just throughout the world and then in

300
00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:52,160
Speaker 1: the cosmos and on your body, right, because even the

301
00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:54,880
Speaker 1: ratio between your hand, the length of your hand and

302
00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:57,440
Speaker 1: the length of your arm, and the length of your

303
00:15:57,520 --> 00:16:00,440
Speaker 1: arms to the height of your body, or even the

304
00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:02,960
Speaker 1: space between your eyes and your nose in your mouth,

305
00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:05,920
Speaker 1: these are all predicated on the golden ratio. So again,

306
00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:10,880
Speaker 1: inherent within the blueprint our numbers. Yeah, we haven't. A

307
00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:13,520
Speaker 1: past episode we did about mathematics, we asked a question,

308
00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:17,320
Speaker 1: is mathematics a human discovery or human invention? Where we

309
00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:20,920
Speaker 1: really go into the philosophical deep end about this, because

310
00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:24,120
Speaker 1: it's really fascinating question. Again, mathematics, as we've discussed, is

311
00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:27,320
Speaker 1: something that comes from within. But is it something that

312
00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:31,480
Speaker 1: is purely a human creation based on what is inside us?

313
00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:35,360
Speaker 1: Or is it something that really permeates every aspect of

314
00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:38,920
Speaker 1: the universe? Right? Is it the tail wagging the dog? Yeah,

315
00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:41,480
Speaker 1: it's really really mind blowing stuff. But we're moving a

316
00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:44,440
Speaker 1: little beyond mathematics at this point and we're getting into

317
00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:48,240
Speaker 1: something called storytelling. Storytelling is of course, is old as

318
00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:50,720
Speaker 1: human language. The idea that we can set down and

319
00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:53,760
Speaker 1: we can tell a narrative, that we can talk about

320
00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:55,920
Speaker 1: this character and what they did. Are these people and

321
00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:58,280
Speaker 1: what they did, what challenge they overcame, how they came

322
00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:02,120
Speaker 1: from point A to point B, And we naturally engage

323
00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:04,720
Speaker 1: in it because the stories are linear. They have beginnings,

324
00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:08,159
Speaker 1: they have metals, and they have ends, much like our lives,

325
00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:11,680
Speaker 1: much exactly like our lives and exactly like our our

326
00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:14,800
Speaker 1: experience of the world around us, so we naturally engage

327
00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:18,840
Speaker 1: with stories well, and within this, I think about the

328
00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:21,720
Speaker 1: neo cortex as part of our brains that was locked

329
00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:24,960
Speaker 1: on is pretty much an upgrade, uh to the human brain.

330
00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:29,400
Speaker 1: Scream ice cream style, swirled up high. It changed everything

331
00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:33,320
Speaker 1: because no longer did we have just our reptilian brain,

332
00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:36,800
Speaker 1: which was really concerned or is concerned with basic survival

333
00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:40,479
Speaker 1: instincts like fear. But with the neo cortex, you have

334
00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:45,320
Speaker 1: something that can manage so many different sophisticated, complex elements

335
00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:49,240
Speaker 1: of life of modern life, from parenting to higher cognitive

336
00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:53,000
Speaker 1: functions like number systems and the prietal loop which which

337
00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:57,879
Speaker 1: governs these number systems, and abstraction. So when I think

338
00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:01,560
Speaker 1: about number systems, I think about abstractions because really that's

339
00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:06,160
Speaker 1: what they are. And uh, these obstractions are stories, and

340
00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:10,720
Speaker 1: these stories really are data. We're taking data, we're organizing it,

341
00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:13,920
Speaker 1: and we're making it into a pattern that makes sense

342
00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:17,960
Speaker 1: to us that can help explain our world. So when

343
00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:20,320
Speaker 1: you think about storytelling, you don't normally think about it

344
00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:23,439
Speaker 1: is involving science, but really you're you're talking about some

345
00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:26,600
Speaker 1: of the same basic principles at play. So again, storytelling

346
00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:28,560
Speaker 1: us how we see the world. I mean, on a

347
00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:31,040
Speaker 1: very basic level. I've talked about this before, and this

348
00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:34,639
Speaker 1: is where especially adults get in get into trouble. And no,

349
00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:37,400
Speaker 1: I mean even in an early age, you're you're engaging

350
00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:40,040
Speaker 1: in your ego. You're creating a story about the world

351
00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:43,240
Speaker 1: in which you are the central character. And uh, you know,

352
00:18:43,359 --> 00:18:46,639
Speaker 1: so everyone's life unless you can you can force yourself

353
00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:49,480
Speaker 1: to think beyond it. After a while, it becomes this

354
00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:54,000
Speaker 1: this very limited novel with this one character engaging with

355
00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:58,680
Speaker 1: other people with their surroundings, with various successes and disasters

356
00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:02,840
Speaker 1: that that line the road to death and elegant and

357
00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:04,760
Speaker 1: then an uplifting way of putting it. But I mean,

358
00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:06,119
Speaker 1: that's what kind of what comes when you when you

359
00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:07,520
Speaker 1: end up viewing the world that way. But we end

360
00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:11,160
Speaker 1: up viewing the world that way. So telling other stories

361
00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:15,560
Speaker 1: ends up being this interesting way of tweaking that worldview

362
00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:18,600
Speaker 1: um in a way that can be both good and bad.

363
00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:21,320
Speaker 1: There's a book called Tell the Wind, Connect, Persuade, and

364
00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:24,240
Speaker 1: Triumph with the Hidden Power of Story by a film executive,

365
00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:28,080
Speaker 1: Peter Goober, and he makes this argument that the stories

366
00:19:28,359 --> 00:19:31,359
Speaker 1: function as trojan horses. All Right, we all know the

367
00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:33,879
Speaker 1: idea of the trojan horse, right, So you have you

368
00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:37,159
Speaker 1: have the city of Troy. The opposing army wants to

369
00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:39,679
Speaker 1: get inside that besieged city. So how do you do it.

370
00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:43,679
Speaker 1: You give him a gift, a fabulous wooden horse hitting away,

371
00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:47,000
Speaker 1: and that horse's belly happens to be a small group

372
00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:50,560
Speaker 1: of soldiers, and after after the lights go off, after

373
00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:52,399
Speaker 1: the sun goes down, they're going to creep out of

374
00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:54,399
Speaker 1: the belly of that horse, unlock the gates, and let

375
00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:58,040
Speaker 1: the rest of the army in. So the idea here

376
00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:00,080
Speaker 1: is that. And we've discussed this about the power of

377
00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:02,520
Speaker 1: storytelling before. You know, when when you have a story

378
00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:05,639
Speaker 1: that contains a different idea, a different way of seeing

379
00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:10,359
Speaker 1: the world, it can kind of virally infect our worldview

380
00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:12,960
Speaker 1: and we end up trusting an idea more if it's

381
00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:15,360
Speaker 1: presented to us in the form of a story, which

382
00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:17,920
Speaker 1: is why you see we've we've talked about the importance

383
00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:20,800
Speaker 1: of sitcom's You're Just in popular history, um or or

384
00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:23,360
Speaker 1: or novels as well. When you engage a new cultural

385
00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:26,119
Speaker 1: idea in the form of a narrative, we're more likely

386
00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:28,239
Speaker 1: to take it in to eat it than we are

387
00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:30,240
Speaker 1: if someone says, hey, here's the way you should maybe

388
00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:32,040
Speaker 1: view the world. Why don't you do this? And then

389
00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:34,320
Speaker 1: people are gonna double down. They're gonna say, no, no,

390
00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:35,800
Speaker 1: that's not the way I view the world at all.

391
00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:38,760
Speaker 1: Presenting a story, however, that's the spoonful of sugar on

392
00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:41,240
Speaker 1: the medicine. Yeah, but I would I would actually argue

393
00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:45,120
Speaker 1: that every single scientific paper that's ever been published has

394
00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:49,240
Speaker 1: a trojan horse of sorts in the narrative. In other words,

395
00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:53,160
Speaker 1: something that happens that's a surprise that turns our assumptions

396
00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:55,439
Speaker 1: on its head, right, because because you've got to have

397
00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:57,720
Speaker 1: conflict and story for to be good. Nobody wants to

398
00:20:57,760 --> 00:20:59,760
Speaker 1: read a story about, hey, there's this person they marry

399
00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:02,600
Speaker 1: and everything happened the way it needed to happen. It was.

400
00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:05,000
Speaker 1: You know, you need some sort of conflict where suddenly

401
00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:07,760
Speaker 1: something doesn't happen, there's a fall from grace, or there's

402
00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:10,040
Speaker 1: a conflict that had or some sort of of enemy

403
00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:11,680
Speaker 1: that has to be overcome. I mean, that's the stuff

404
00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:14,240
Speaker 1: of great narrative. No one wants to read three long

405
00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:17,040
Speaker 1: books about Bilbo setting at home, drinking tea and crumpets.

406
00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:20,040
Speaker 1: This is true. This is true. Something has to happen,

407
00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:23,920
Speaker 1: change has to occur in order for the reader to

408
00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:29,440
Speaker 1: better understand him or herself in the greater world around them. Right,

409
00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:31,560
Speaker 1: And this I think if you look at it, pretty

410
00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:34,160
Speaker 1: much every publication of a paper, there's going to be

411
00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:37,919
Speaker 1: something within it, even if it's something like in a

412
00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:41,239
Speaker 1: paper that ended up in Ignoble, right, which we did

413
00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:43,320
Speaker 1: a couple of podcasts. There's always a story. Like there's

414
00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:45,080
Speaker 1: the story of the guy that said, hey, there's a

415
00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:48,160
Speaker 1: dead duck outside my window, and then another duck came

416
00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:51,000
Speaker 1: and started copulating with that dead duck and he had

417
00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:53,160
Speaker 1: to make sense of it. So there's the study. There's

418
00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:56,399
Speaker 1: the story there's a man and getting in encountering a

419
00:21:56,840 --> 00:21:59,879
Speaker 1: mystery in the world, well something to overcome and have

420
00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:02,520
Speaker 1: to solve it, having to an analyze it and learning

421
00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:05,399
Speaker 1: something from it. Right. So that's what the basis of

422
00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:08,199
Speaker 1: storytelling is about. You don't want learn. You generally, when

423
00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:10,000
Speaker 1: you engage with a story, you want a character that's

424
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:12,760
Speaker 1: going to learn and grow, or on the optic, you

425
00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:14,679
Speaker 1: want a character maybe that doesn't learn and grow, but

426
00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:17,920
Speaker 1: that's that's still part and partial to who that person

427
00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:20,680
Speaker 1: is and getting even know that. So I'm actually thinking

428
00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:22,840
Speaker 1: about the paper that was published by the kids. We

429
00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:24,480
Speaker 1: talked about this on how to Think like a Child

430
00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:28,240
Speaker 1: and uh blato, who did the ted talk about it?

431
00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:31,520
Speaker 1: And those kids were trying to find out whether or

432
00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:36,680
Speaker 1: not humans and insects had things in common in terms

433
00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:39,440
Speaker 1: of the way that they think, the way that they forage,

434
00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:42,399
Speaker 1: that they organized. Is it possible that insects could have

435
00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:47,919
Speaker 1: as complex thought processes as humans? And this was the

436
00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:51,280
Speaker 1: story they were after, and they got their trojan horse

437
00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:54,479
Speaker 1: because they found out that these bees were forging in

438
00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:57,760
Speaker 1: ways that we had never known before, that that were

439
00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:01,320
Speaker 1: really nuanced. You changed the conditions and they could adapt,

440
00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:05,160
Speaker 1: and again you have a story about how a we're

441
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:09,040
Speaker 1: not that far from from the rest of the natural world.

442
00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:11,240
Speaker 1: In other words, a lot of the blueprint of who

443
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:15,000
Speaker 1: we are comes from everything around us. Right that there's

444
00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:18,080
Speaker 1: there's something intrinsic to bees that is intrinsic to us,

445
00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:22,280
Speaker 1: and so you get this idea of how the natural

446
00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:26,879
Speaker 1: world orders itself. But also that kids can think critically.

447
00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:30,080
Speaker 1: That's the other part of this story that has to

448
00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:33,680
Speaker 1: do with us published paper that kids can see through

449
00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:36,680
Speaker 1: the mind of a scientist and in fact do so

450
00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:39,320
Speaker 1: every day it is again something that is not apart

451
00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:42,920
Speaker 1: from them. It is underscoring this idea that we are

452
00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:46,760
Speaker 1: all inherently scientists. Robert Cowitch Coast of Radio Lab a

453
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:49,280
Speaker 1: great science podcast that we listen to it and I

454
00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:51,040
Speaker 1: think a number of our listeners listened to as well.

455
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:54,199
Speaker 1: He gave a great keynote a few years back on

456
00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:57,159
Speaker 1: the importance of storytelling to the scientific community, which is

457
00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:01,199
Speaker 1: really really great talk, really inspiring tall whether you stand

458
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:04,480
Speaker 1: on the inside or outside of a scientific institution, because

459
00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:06,600
Speaker 1: he was he was very much going with this idea

460
00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:09,080
Speaker 1: of storytelling is a trojan horse. His whole thing was,

461
00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:11,480
Speaker 1: if you're a scientist and you're engaging with with people

462
00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:13,560
Speaker 1: and someone asks you what you do, which, what are

463
00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:15,600
Speaker 1: you studying? What are you what's your research consisting of?

464
00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:18,040
Speaker 1: Don't blow them off, Don't just say I you wouldn't

465
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:20,080
Speaker 1: understand it. Try and explain it to and trying to

466
00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:24,320
Speaker 1: explain it as a story, because narrative is powerful. And

467
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:26,920
Speaker 1: if you if the scientists are not telling a story

468
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:28,880
Speaker 1: that makes sense, if they're not telling a story about

469
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:31,120
Speaker 1: how the world works, then there are gonna be other

470
00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:34,760
Speaker 1: competing stories out there, stories that stem from myth stories

471
00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:37,679
Speaker 1: that stem from religious or spiritual views of the world,

472
00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:43,320
Speaker 1: stories that stem from just complete Internet generated quackery. We've

473
00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:45,919
Speaker 1: all received emails like that about how Mars is going

474
00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:47,680
Speaker 1: to be as big as the moon and the night sky,

475
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:51,720
Speaker 1: and other such nonsense, about how Satanist in your area

476
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:54,080
Speaker 1: are going to kidnap your cat on haw Halloween. The

477
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 1: list goes on and on. But all the quack ideas

478
00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:59,440
Speaker 1: out there, they already have narratives, and some of these

479
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:01,560
Speaker 1: these idea as are old. We've been telling some of

480
00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:04,480
Speaker 1: these stories since the beginning of human history, and so

481
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:08,320
Speaker 1: science has to compete with those. So we need science

482
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:11,560
Speaker 1: that tells stories. We need to engage with students and

483
00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:15,040
Speaker 1: with adults, people of all ages with a science that

484
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:17,800
Speaker 1: is wrapped inherentive. Yeah, and because you know, we we've

485
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:20,760
Speaker 1: talked about how in the past, the human storytelling has

486
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:26,119
Speaker 1: really revolved around mysticism, and we've defined ourselves in these

487
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:29,520
Speaker 1: in these ways. We think about mysticism more as the

488
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:33,000
Speaker 1: creative expression now, but there's still a bit of that,

489
00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:36,760
Speaker 1: But that cannot be said for everyone in the world. Yeah,

490
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:39,440
Speaker 1: I mean, it's still in the cultural fabrics. So um,

491
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 1: I think if we can begin to understand ourselves in

492
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:50,160
Speaker 1: these different terms as these Euclidean space explorers, and looking

493
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:53,119
Speaker 1: down at our fingers and realizing that we have ordered

494
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:58,480
Speaker 1: an entire world around digits numbers. Again, we can begin

495
00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:00,480
Speaker 1: to understand that this is not something in a separate

496
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:03,000
Speaker 1: from us. Yeah, we're born scientists, and that's something we

497
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:05,400
Speaker 1: need to cultivate, we need to nurture, and we don't

498
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:07,600
Speaker 1: need to learn to be something other than a scientist

499
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:09,680
Speaker 1: as we grow. All right, Well, on that note, let's

500
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:11,960
Speaker 1: call over the robit and get a little bit of

501
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:16,119
Speaker 1: listener mail. All right, this one comes to us from Pedro.

502
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:19,359
Speaker 1: Pedro writes and says, Hey, Julian Robert, I'm a truck driver.

503
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:21,080
Speaker 1: We have a number of those, so always nice to

504
00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:23,400
Speaker 1: hear from the truckers out there. I'm a truck driver

505
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:26,280
Speaker 1: and recently started to listen to your awesome podcast. I

506
00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:28,720
Speaker 1: literally have listened to most of your podcast to date

507
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:33,200
Speaker 1: in about a week. Wow. Anyhow, I finally got home

508
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:34,840
Speaker 1: and wanted to write to you guys and share a

509
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:36,679
Speaker 1: little story that popped into mind when I heard the

510
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:40,920
Speaker 1: Gigantism episode Julie mentioned on the topic of hissing cockroaches

511
00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:43,480
Speaker 1: that she thought there might be flying cock roaches. Yes,

512
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:46,160
Speaker 1: I grew up in Puerto Rico and in my native town,

513
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 1: Vega Baja. As a team, I moved to a more

514
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:51,520
Speaker 1: isolated part of town, near a farm close to the

515
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:54,720
Speaker 1: tree line of a jungle like part of the island. Uh.

516
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:57,399
Speaker 1: It was in the twilight hours and my father and

517
00:26:57,440 --> 00:26:59,480
Speaker 1: I were standing on our porch when something hit me

518
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:02,679
Speaker 1: in the face, more like slapped me. My father kidded

519
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:04,880
Speaker 1: that it was a bat, which freaked freaked me out enough,

520
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:06,760
Speaker 1: But when we turned on a few lights, I was

521
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:10,240
Speaker 1: surprised by a whole bunch of huge, disgusting flying cockroaches.

522
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:13,200
Speaker 1: Not one of the selling points of my wonderful island anyway.

523
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:15,879
Speaker 1: I love the podcast, and I'm only disappointed in the

524
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:18,199
Speaker 1: fact that I'm almost up to date on him. All Right,

525
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 1: so it's saying that these cockroaches are hitting cockroaches with wings. Yeah,

526
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:26,320
Speaker 1: that's that's what he's saying, Okay, because I know about palmettos,

527
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:29,480
Speaker 1: and those suckers can get big even here in Georgia. Yeah.

528
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:34,040
Speaker 1: Put the hissing cockroach three or more inches with wings

529
00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:37,600
Speaker 1: hissing at you as it comes in the lands in

530
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:39,400
Speaker 1: your ear cannut unless there was a kid out there

531
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 1: in the shadows with a slingshot just pelting the porch

532
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:46,440
Speaker 1: with these things, but I doubt it. Alright, Alright, something

533
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:51,560
Speaker 1: to add to uh to the nightmares? Well, um, you

534
00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:53,440
Speaker 1: can certainly add to our nightmares and you can add

535
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:56,240
Speaker 1: to the listeners nightmares by by connecting with us, sharing

536
00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:59,639
Speaker 1: your stories about your scientific understanding of the world and

537
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:01,520
Speaker 1: how you engage in science and if you're a teacher,

538
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:04,480
Speaker 1: would love to hear your thoughts on engaging students in science.

539
00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:06,360
Speaker 1: You can find us on Facebook and you can find

540
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:08,960
Speaker 1: us on tumbler. We are stuff to Blow your Mind

541
00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:10,399
Speaker 1: on both of those and you can also seek us

542
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:12,480
Speaker 1: out on Twitter, where our handle is blow the Mind

543
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:14,200
Speaker 1: and you can drop us a line at blow the

544
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:23,240
Speaker 1: Mind at discovery dot com for more on this and

545
00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:25,880
Speaker 1: thousands of other topics. Is it how Stuff Works dot

546
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 1: com