Speaker 1: Welcome to Haunted Road, a production of I Heart Radio
Speaker 1: and Grimm and Mild from Aaron Minky. Listener discretion is advised.
Speaker 1: Here is an excerpt taken from the Dayton Daily News
Speaker 1: Data December. In a few days, the Star of India,
Speaker 1: reminder of by gone sailing days, will be taken on
Speaker 1: a little coastwise cruise from her quiet mooring in San
Speaker 1: Francisco Bay down to San Diego. Then the one word
Speaker 1: Fini will be written in the log book and her
Speaker 1: sailing days will be at an end. It will mean
Speaker 1: the retirement of what seamen hold to be the most
Speaker 1: famous sailing vessel afloat. She will be anchored in a
Speaker 1: tiny inland ocean, a feature in a proposed five acre
Speaker 1: zoological garden in San Diego. This little coastwise voyage means
Speaker 1: far more to the average sailor than the layman, aalizes.
Speaker 1: The sailor still has that inherited feel of the sea.
Speaker 1: He delights in Viking stories and anything that sails before
Speaker 1: the wind enthuses him. He knows his ships as a
Speaker 1: turfman knows his horses, and records count for as much
Speaker 1: with the sailor as with the lover of fleetness in
Speaker 1: the equine world. The older sailors along the Pacific coast
Speaker 1: delight in pointing out that the keel of the Star
Speaker 1: of India was laid down sixty three years ago by
Speaker 1: Gilson and Company of Ramsey, Scotland. She was christened U
Speaker 1: Turpi for the English Australian trade and old waterfront captains
Speaker 1: at San Francisco recall her tall mass stenciled against the
Speaker 1: skyline in those days when the golden gate never closed
Speaker 1: on a processional of white sails. Now she is to
Speaker 1: be rescued from slow disintegration in some hidden cove off
Speaker 1: the Pacific coast. A place of honor has been assigned
Speaker 1: her and what is expected to someday prove one of
Speaker 1: the most interesting spots in America. Glass tanks will replace
Speaker 1: the bunks on which slept the hardened men who for
Speaker 1: half a century brave the elements of seven seas. The
Speaker 1: Star of India will be um an aquarium. Even though
Speaker 1: forever beached and her sails furled for all time, she
Speaker 1: will still be a part of the sea. Except that's
Speaker 1: not what happened at all. So let's head to San
Speaker 1: Diego and find out what became of the Star of India.
Speaker 1: I'm Amy Brunei and welcome to Haunted Road. Some might
Speaker 1: call the Star of India a historic trade ship, the
Speaker 1: most cursed boat in the water, and it's one nine
Speaker 1: years of sailing. The ship has been trapped in the
Speaker 1: ice in Alaska and run aground in Hawaii, and has
Speaker 1: seen cyclones, collisions with other ships, and a crew mutiny
Speaker 1: that ended in seventeen men being sentenced to hard labor.
Speaker 1: But others might call it the luckiest ship ever built.
Speaker 1: Through all these cataclysmic events, the Star of India survived.
Speaker 1: In fact, she's still sailing today. Whether she's sailing with
Speaker 1: icy handed ghosts of sailors who died aboard, though, is
Speaker 1: a bird debate. There are rumors of strange apparitions and
Speaker 1: moving objects below her decks. Maybe it's because of all
Speaker 1: the tragic deaths aboard, or maybe it's because the ship
Speaker 1: is the oldest actively sailing boat in the world. When
Speaker 1: she was first built, the Star of India had a
Speaker 1: different name and a different purpose. She was also a
Speaker 1: marvel of her time, an iron holed ship in an
Speaker 1: era when most boats were constructed of wood. Relatively small,
Speaker 1: the boat measures two hundred five feet long by thirty
Speaker 1: five feet wide and has three masts. Originally called the
Speaker 1: Utterpi after the Greek muse of music, the ship was
Speaker 1: built in eighteen sixty three in the Isle of man
Speaker 1: An Island in the Irish Sea between Great Britain and Ireland.
Speaker 1: In its early sailings, the Utterpi was used to sail
Speaker 1: jute from India, or at least that's what she was
Speaker 1: supposed to do. Her first two sailings were nearly disastrous,
Speaker 1: filled with so much calamity that she nearly sank and
Speaker 1: lost all her crew. The uterpis first sailing left Liverpool
Speaker 1: on January ninth, eighteen sixty four, under the command of
Speaker 1: Captain William's story. Almost immediately after setting sail, disaster struck.
Speaker 1: In the middle of the night, the Uturpy collided with
Speaker 1: an unlit Spanish break off the coast of Whales. The
Speaker 1: crash destroyed the jib boom. For you non sailing folk
Speaker 1: out there like me, that's the large extension off the
Speaker 1: bow that helps the sales maintain a well projected shape
Speaker 1: to catch the wind and speed up the ship. The
Speaker 1: damage was so extensive that seventeen of the ship's thirty
Speaker 1: crew members refused to continue working until the ship turned
Speaker 1: into port for repairs. Here's where that mutiny comes in.
Speaker 1: According to British sailing history site Mighty sees the Uturpi
Speaker 1: put into Holy Head Whales on the fifteenth and these
Speaker 1: men were tried by local magistrates, each being condemned to
Speaker 1: prison for fourteen days with hard labor after an expert
Speaker 1: witness stated that the repairs could easily have been made
Speaker 1: at ze. After five days of repairs, the ship embarked
Speaker 1: again on January, this time with more than half the
Speaker 1: original crew replaced, arriving in Calcutta around May. Her second
Speaker 1: sailing was no more peaceful. After having successfully sailed from
Speaker 1: England to India and secured a new load of cargo,
Speaker 1: the Uturpi departed India and was caught in a cyclone
Speaker 1: in the Bay of Bengal. This time she lost her
Speaker 1: top masts and barely made it back to port. Just
Speaker 1: after On August seven, eighteen sixty six, Captain's Story died
Speaker 1: from what the BBC described as an unknown tropical disease
Speaker 1: and was buried at sea with all that bad energy
Speaker 1: attached to the ships. No surprise, her original owners sold
Speaker 1: her after that voyage. After changing hands again in eighteen
Speaker 1: seventy one, the Uturpie took on a different kind of
Speaker 1: cargo people. In the years that followed, she made twenty
Speaker 1: one trips around the world, bringing immigrants to new lands
Speaker 1: in search of better lives. Most of the passengers were
Speaker 1: from the United Kingdom heading to New Zealand, though she
Speaker 1: also made voyages to California, Chile and Australia. But true
Speaker 1: to the Uturpies history, those voyages were challenging. The Maritime
Speaker 1: Museum of San Diego Go, where the Star of India
Speaker 1: is now docked, says of that time it was rugged
Speaker 1: voyaging with a little iron ship battling through terrific gales.
Speaker 1: The ship's log describes the vessel laboring and rolling in
Speaker 1: a most distressing manner during those storms. At the shortest
Speaker 1: a voyage to New Zealand took one hundred days and
Speaker 1: one hundred forty three days for its longest trip. Both
Speaker 1: the crew and the passengers suffered during these difficult voyages.
Speaker 1: Everyone ate a measly diet of hard tack, which is
Speaker 1: a dense hard biscuit, and salt junk, which is dried
Speaker 1: salted beef or pork. Many suffered from all the mare,
Speaker 1: a particular kind of seasickness caused by rolling waves characterized
Speaker 1: by nausea and dizziness, and other maladies caused by months
Speaker 1: cooped up below deck. They were a tough lot, the
Speaker 1: museum describes, drawn from the working classes of England, Ireland
Speaker 1: and Scotland, and most went on to prosper in New Zealand.
Speaker 1: Many babies were born to immigrants on these voyages, including
Speaker 1: one given the middle name Uturpi and one partially named
Speaker 1: after Captain Theoe Phillips. Many people also died, though not
Speaker 1: as many as you might assume based on how difficult
Speaker 1: some of the sailings were, but there were significant losses.
Speaker 1: Seamen died of consumption, dysentery and pneumonia. One had a
Speaker 1: seizure and fell from a mass to his death. Another
Speaker 1: was accidentally crushed to death by his crewmates. A crewman
Speaker 1: was in the chain locker where the anchor chain is stored,
Speaker 1: where he shouldn't have been, and he became stuck as
Speaker 1: his mates brought in the anchor to prepare to sail.
Speaker 1: The noisy machinery masked the sound of the screams of
Speaker 1: the trapped victim as he was crushed by the enormously
Speaker 1: heavy chain. Child passengers were especially vulnerable. Babies were still
Speaker 1: born on the ship, Infants perished, and families lost very
Speaker 1: young children more than once. One of the most tragic
Speaker 1: losses befell Emily and Charles brad from Middlesex, England, who
Speaker 1: were traveling on the Uterpi with their four children. On
Speaker 1: the six month voyage. Two of the kids, eight year
Speaker 1: old Emily and two year old Jesse, passed away. Another
Speaker 1: family faced a similarly horrific situation. Mary and Thomas Osborne
Speaker 1: traveled aboard the Uturpi with their nine children, five sons
Speaker 1: and four daughters. Four year old George died at sea,
Speaker 1: followed by infant Thomas Jr. Mary gave birth to a
Speaker 1: baby girl aboard the ship, but the newborn passed away
Speaker 1: shortly after. The Journal of San Diego History wrote about
Speaker 1: a collection of diaries and letters donated by New Zealanders
Speaker 1: descended from passengers on the Uturpi. The journal describes these
Speaker 1: letters by saying they tell us of yards and sales
Speaker 1: riven by shrieking gales, of mountainous seas and vast icebergs,
Speaker 1: of standing off and on before barren, iron bound coasts,
Speaker 1: of the immigrants, hunger and their battles with ship rats
Speaker 1: and each other of men swept off the bowsprit into
Speaker 1: the churnings of the seat, of a captain's gory suicide,
Speaker 1: and of the great joy and relief of all hands
Speaker 1: on sighting land. Their words are the stark testimony of
Speaker 1: those who sought new lives against all odds, braving hazards
Speaker 1: men would think impossible today. In nineteen o one, the
Speaker 1: ship was sold again, purchased by the Alaska Packer Association
Speaker 1: to service the state's salmon canneries. For over twenty years,
Speaker 1: she carried fishermen and canary workers, as well as coal
Speaker 1: and other supplies, from Oakland, California, to Alaska, and would
Speaker 1: return laden with canned salmon. It was during this time
Speaker 1: that the Uturpi became the Star of India, so named
Speaker 1: to be consistent with the rest of the association's fleet.
Speaker 1: In nineteen six the Star of India was steered toward
Speaker 1: another new path. A group of friends in San Diego
Speaker 1: bartered for the boat, aiming to build a museum and
Speaker 1: aquarium around her. The project was sidelined because of the
Speaker 1: Great depression in World War Two, and the ship lay
Speaker 1: dormant until nineteen fifty seven, when renovations finally started, though
Speaker 1: they took a long time to complete. In nineteen seventy six,
Speaker 1: the Star of India was put to sea again. Now
Speaker 1: moored at the Maritime Museum of and Diego, the Star
Speaker 1: of India is a floating history lesson, welcoming visitors to
Speaker 1: walk her decks and descend below to see what life
Speaker 1: would have been like on the ship up until she
Speaker 1: made one single annual sail a year with a crew
Speaker 1: of volunteers from the museum who trained all year to
Speaker 1: be able to operate The Star of India on her
Speaker 1: day long departure from her mooring. The museum, though still
Speaker 1: describes her as an active sailing ship. In addition to
Speaker 1: all of that, she holds many distinctions. She's on the
Speaker 1: National Register of Historic Places and is designated a National
Speaker 1: Historic Landmark. She's the fourth oldest ship in the United
Speaker 1: States and the oldest iron holed merchant ships still afloat.
Speaker 1: She's also the oldest ship in the world still sailing regularly.
Speaker 1: Unlike many other preserved or restored ships, her whole cabins
Speaker 1: and equipment are all largely original. Maybe it's because so
Speaker 1: much of the ship is still original that there are
Speaker 1: so many rumors of hauntings and strange activities aboard the
Speaker 1: Star of India. One such story comes from the story
Speaker 1: of John Campbell, a teenage stowaway who snuck his way
Speaker 1: into the crew in four Shortly after being put to work,
Speaker 1: Campbell was high in the rigging and lost his footing,
Speaker 1: falling one feet to the deck below. Both his legs
Speaker 1: were crushed, but Campbell survived three long days before he
Speaker 1: died and was buried at sea. Visitors who are near
Speaker 1: the mast Campbell fell from will sometimes report feeling the
Speaker 1: touch of a cold hand. In the ship's galley, where
Speaker 1: the food was prepared, people still report smelling freshly baked bread,
Speaker 1: even though it's been nearly a century since anything was
Speaker 1: baked in that kitchen. Visitors have also claimed to have
Speaker 1: seen pots and pans above the stove moving, even though
Speaker 1: the ship is sitting calmly in the water. The chain locker,
Speaker 1: where the crew member was crushed to death by equipment
Speaker 1: is said to be a paranormally active spot, and the
Speaker 1: sailor's quarters are also plagued with spiritual activity after witnessing
Speaker 1: much death and suffering. Crewmen who were sick or injured
Speaker 1: spent their last days in that area, and visitors report
Speaker 1: feeling cold spots in those areas, being overcome with residual
Speaker 1: fear and sadness in the space. To talk more about
Speaker 1: the hauntings on board the Star of India, I have
Speaker 1: called in my old friend. You might know him, Britt Griffith.
Speaker 1: Britta and I go way back, way way back, and
Speaker 1: we once start on TV's Ghost Hunters together. He was
Speaker 1: the first person who told me of the Star of India,
Speaker 1: and after having investigated it multiple times, he's got some
Speaker 1: crazy stories to tell. That's coming up after the break.
Speaker 1: All right, So I am currently on the line with
Speaker 1: one of my oldest dearest friends. And I don't mean
Speaker 1: like old, I mean like we've been friends for a
Speaker 1: very long time. I well, I was trying to not
Speaker 1: call you old and then it just kind of but
Speaker 1: I mean you're not old, clearly. I mean my oldest
Speaker 1: friend is in like we go a wait, wait, we
Speaker 1: back like pre TV, pre ghost Hunters. You were the
Speaker 1: one that really introduced me to the Star of India,
Speaker 1: and I know you investigated it quite a bit. So
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm going to bring Britt. This is
Speaker 1: my chance to bring Britt on. So Britt Griffith is
Speaker 1: a ghost Hunter's alumni paranormal investigator, like I said, very
Speaker 1: dear friend, and we have basically, I mean, I feel
Speaker 1: like our two teams way back in the day. Like
Speaker 1: you were working on a Southern California team, I was
Speaker 1: on a Northern California team, and we were all like
Speaker 1: Taps family teams and god well, but actually, honestly, Amy,
Speaker 1: we we we were on teams before Ghost Hunters even
Speaker 1: hit the air in October of two thousand four. So
Speaker 1: many people think I did the paranormal because I was
Speaker 1: on Teaving. The reality was we were doing this long
Speaker 1: before that show was on the air. Absolutely. And what
Speaker 1: I loved is that our teams worked together was so
Speaker 1: because we were NorCal you were so cowed. We would
Speaker 1: come together for like the Central California cases, Fresno, California.
Speaker 1: We did a lot of Fresno and Baker's Field and clothing.
Speaker 1: I remember we investigated like this crazy Mexican restaurant once.
Speaker 1: Actually there's a story on that one. Okay, So anyone
Speaker 1: who listens to this podcast knows that I love to
Speaker 1: share stories, and so let me tell you, I do
Speaker 1: know Britt very well. And when Britt does something, Britt
Speaker 1: does not do something halfway. Britt goes all in. And
Speaker 1: so as you became a paranormal investigator, you bought and
Speaker 1: designed and researched every single piece of like paranormal technical
Speaker 1: research equipment you could get your hands on. That's how
Speaker 1: you ended up on gh AS, like helping with all
Speaker 1: the tech. And so I remember the first time I
Speaker 1: met Britt. He pulled up in literally an ambulance that
Speaker 1: he bought, filled with ghost gear, and I was, who
Speaker 1: is this guy? Right? So the first you were like,
Speaker 1: this dude's weird. And then you had a hearse to
Speaker 1: which you did not use for the ghost of gear,
Speaker 1: but you had, and I was like, all right, this
Speaker 1: guy is office rocker. But I will never forget you.
Speaker 1: When we were investigating that Mexican restaurant, you were like,
Speaker 1: you know, let's all like car pool. I think we
Speaker 1: all stayed at like a local hotel or something. We
Speaker 1: car pooled. And so I wrote in the ambulance and
Speaker 1: I sat in the back and I buckled my seatbelt
Speaker 1: and I was like this is such a novelty, this
Speaker 1: is so cool whatever, And then we get there and
Speaker 1: I'm like, I can't get my seatbelt off. My seatbelt
Speaker 1: is not my seatbelt is not coming undone, and I'm
Speaker 1: like sitting there, I'm kind of struggling with it. And
Speaker 1: then the door opens and there's Britt and he's got
Speaker 1: a camera and he's like, Amy, what's going on? You
Speaker 1: got a problem, but oh are you stuck? And I'm
Speaker 1: like I'm stuck in my seatbelt, like and you wouldn't
Speaker 1: help me, you just kept filming me. And so then
Speaker 1: fast forward to like a year, so he has this
Speaker 1: video of me. So fast forward to a year or
Speaker 1: two later. We're on the Queen Mary for like I
Speaker 1: think it was a Dave Schrader event. Jason and Grant
Speaker 1: from Ghost Hunters are lecturing and we were dear friends
Speaker 1: and I was helping them with their podcast at the time,
Speaker 1: and so their lecturing and they called me into the
Speaker 1: lecture hall and they're like introducing me, like, hey, this
Speaker 1: is Amy. She's our producer for our podcast. And they're
Speaker 1: like Amy, Oh, we wanted to show you something, and
Speaker 1: they played the video of me stuck in the ambulance
Speaker 1: in front of hundreds of people. Yeah, that was the
Speaker 1: good old days. But we had some great times. And
Speaker 1: that ambulance was very convenient because it carried all the
Speaker 1: equipment and it gave us a place to sit outside
Speaker 1: of the location and not in the weather. Oh totally.
Speaker 1: It was like the it was like our taps fan basically,
Speaker 1: but I actually felt like the ambulance was kind of
Speaker 1: more conducive to that because it had all these different compartments. So,
Speaker 1: and you were very organized with it all. And so
Speaker 1: obviously there were a lot of, you know, Ghostbusters jokes
Speaker 1: made at our expense, but we are very used to
Speaker 1: that by now, so that's par for the course. If
Speaker 1: we're not getting the Ghostbusters joke, then we're doing something wrong. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And to be honest with you, I wish we had
Speaker 1: Ghostbusters paychecks because then we wouldn't have to work for
Speaker 1: a living. That's very true. So but that's okay, that's okay.
Speaker 1: I think we're we're good. We're good. We've had we
Speaker 1: had the experiences, so okay, So tell me, do you, like,
Speaker 1: when did you first start investigating the Star of India
Speaker 1: and how did that come about? So the team that
Speaker 1: I was on Obviously we were southern California, and leader
Speaker 1: of our team actually lived in San Diego, and he
Speaker 1: had a relationship with the manager or somebody who had
Speaker 1: something to do with that Maritime museum because they have
Speaker 1: like seven eight ships down there now, and uh, they
Speaker 1: had always had ghost stories from the night Watch. We've
Speaker 1: always had a hard time keeping night security on those
Speaker 1: ships because not only the Star of India that's there,
Speaker 1: but that Berkeley ship is there, and then there was
Speaker 1: a Russian submarine that was there, and all three of
Speaker 1: them are haunted. And so the night manager this and
Speaker 1: this was right about the first season of ghost Hunters,
Speaker 1: which gave the manager enough courage to actually talk about it, because,
Speaker 1: I mean, most people don't realize, but before ghost Hunters
Speaker 1: came on the air, talking about the paranormal was was
Speaker 1: a hush hush thing or you were crazy, and trying
Speaker 1: to get people to let us into buildings was a
Speaker 1: pain because they would just laugh at us. But ghost
Speaker 1: Hunters happened, so the manager knew that Dave was into
Speaker 1: the paranormal world, and he finally reached out to Dave
Speaker 1: and said, hey, you know, we just had another night
Speaker 1: security guy quit because of ghosts, which I don't believe in,
Speaker 1: but you know, I know you're into it. Do you
Speaker 1: think you can come out with your team and blah
Speaker 1: blah blah. And that's how we got in there was
Speaker 1: because they couldn't keep their night security. They kept losing
Speaker 1: employees and reached out to Day and then Day was like, yeah, sure,
Speaker 1: and we went down and did it. And I mean
Speaker 1: the first night we were there, back then before ghost Hunters,
Speaker 1: when we would go to a place, the spirit wald
Speaker 1: wasn't used to being acknowledged, reached out to, or like
Speaker 1: we were doing trying to make contact. Most of the
Speaker 1: time the spirit wal will be seen or heard, people
Speaker 1: would freak and run. But the Star video the first
Speaker 1: time we were there, we had activity. We had interactually
Speaker 1: had K two hits, we had E d P, we
Speaker 1: had it was like run up the bat. It was active,
Speaker 1: which was really cool because normally takes a couple of
Speaker 1: nights for the other side, whatever we're dealing with, to
Speaker 1: get used to us reaching out to them and then
Speaker 1: then going right, I guess we can kind of reach
Speaker 1: out back and then the evidence collecting starts. Really No
Speaker 1: one takes a couple of days. Today now it's like
Speaker 1: it's almost like the spirit world expects to be talked
Speaker 1: to almost, so it's a little different now. Yeah, No,
Speaker 1: that actually makes sense because I feel like you guys
Speaker 1: are probably the first ones to actually investigate the ship,
Speaker 1: and there's been paranormal reports coming out of there for
Speaker 1: a very long time. The history is very interesting. It's
Speaker 1: had many different incarnations, so it makes sense that it
Speaker 1: would be very haunted. But I'm just guessing that those spirits,
Speaker 1: you know, had gone decades just kind of trying to
Speaker 1: get attention or trying to get someone to reach out
Speaker 1: to them, and then finally you guys get there, and
Speaker 1: so yeah, it makes sense that right off the bat
Speaker 1: they would start trying to interact. And see you did
Speaker 1: obviously you did the Ghost Hunters investigations, but I can't
Speaker 1: remember did you go there with your team on on
Speaker 1: your own or was that was your experience the show. No,
Speaker 1: it was just when we went with Ghost Hunters, But
Speaker 1: we were there. I feel like we were there for
Speaker 1: three nights because we were also doing the Berkeley next
Speaker 1: Door and so we were just like normally we were
Speaker 1: there for a couple of nights with g JR. One night,
Speaker 1: but I think we were there for I remember being
Speaker 1: in San Diego for quite a while for those cases. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and we were there two and a half weeks. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: And so I do remember it very distinctly, and I
Speaker 1: remember hearing footsteps, I remember seeing a shadow figure downstairs.
Speaker 1: And this was one of the first cases that they
Speaker 1: So I had already investigated in Alameda and in Clovis,
Speaker 1: and I thought I was going back to work in
Speaker 1: my project manager job, and they were like, hey, want
Speaker 1: to go to San Diego. So I was like, I guess. So,
Speaker 1: so this was, like, I want to say, my third
Speaker 1: or fourth case. It's not the easiest place to investigate
Speaker 1: because it's downtown, it's on the water, and it's an
Speaker 1: old ship. It makes a lot of noises, but it's
Speaker 1: steel hold or whatever, so it's not like a just
Speaker 1: a wooden ship creaking and stuff, so you do have
Speaker 1: some control. But still it was a challenge and I
Speaker 1: remember thinking at the time, I was like, how are
Speaker 1: we going to do this? But we did it and
Speaker 1: it worked out, and you're right, it is a happy
Speaker 1: is cast iron. The steel hole, which is the only
Speaker 1: reason why that ship is around today because at the
Speaker 1: time most of the ships were made of wood and
Speaker 1: then that rots. But the only reason that ship still
Speaker 1: afloat today, still sells today, it's a hundred and sixty
Speaker 1: two years old, is because the whole was made so
Speaker 1: thick of steel and we get to experience it today.
Speaker 1: Most people don't realize it, but back then, the ships
Speaker 1: were made of wood because it was the most economical
Speaker 1: way to do it. But those ships, you know, they
Speaker 1: don't last a hundred sixty years, like you know, Star
Speaker 1: Indians a hundred six years old, and the only reason
Speaker 1: was because the original owners paid the extra money to
Speaker 1: have that extra thick still whole. And she's still around today.
Speaker 1: I mean she's literally Costar certified Hunters since two years later,
Speaker 1: the world's oldest selling ship on the planet, which is
Speaker 1: really kind of cool, and we can investigated and looked for,
Speaker 1: I know, And that was one of those kind of
Speaker 1: surreal moments for me too. I was like, oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: we're investigating this ship. And I actually went back to
Speaker 1: San Diego recently just for a stopover when we were
Speaker 1: coming back from a vacation in Hawaii, when we stayed
Speaker 1: the night there, and I showed it to my daughter
Speaker 1: and I was like, that was one of my first
Speaker 1: cases on Ghost Hunters. Like, but it's beautiful, like it
Speaker 1: she just stands. They light her up and like she's
Speaker 1: definitely getting the accolades she deserves. But I don't know
Speaker 1: that everybody fully realizes, like what is going on in there?
Speaker 1: It is very creepy. I do remember distinctly the footsteps
Speaker 1: are a big one, and I know you would experience that.
Speaker 1: Was one of the things you told me about before
Speaker 1: we even investigated there for Ghost Hunters was the footsteps situation.
Speaker 1: Now do you remember what you experienced there with footsteps?
Speaker 1: Because I do, but you should probably tell the story.
Speaker 1: Well again, I was working with Jane Grant. But we
Speaker 1: hear footsteps all the time, and we hear ghostly sounds,
Speaker 1: and we hear a lot of door shutting and when
Speaker 1: but what what blows my mind about the Star of India.
Speaker 1: And this actually happened on tape. You can go to
Speaker 1: the show and watch it. We heard the footsteps. We
Speaker 1: were in the in between deck they called the tween deck,
Speaker 1: which is a really low ceiling deck kind of captain's
Speaker 1: quarters and whatnot, and we heard the footsteps and I
Speaker 1: put my hands on this what was the ceiling for me,
Speaker 1: but the floor for the top deck, and I could
Speaker 1: feel them walking towards me, and it was like it's
Speaker 1: like they were distant and as you hear them, they're
Speaker 1: they're soft, they get louder, and then they get soft again.
Speaker 1: We'll think of that as you put your hands on
Speaker 1: the floor or the ceiling. And it was like soft, harder, harder, harder,
Speaker 1: hard right on the top of me, and then soft
Speaker 1: again as it went over me. And for me it
Speaker 1: was like, holy crap, I got I felt another thing.
Speaker 1: I hear that. I felt that, And then it spurred
Speaker 1: thousand more questions of so this thing has mass that
Speaker 1: it can actually impact the wood and vibrate the wood
Speaker 1: to where I can feel it. So there's so there's
Speaker 1: mass there. So does that mean this ghost could you know,
Speaker 1: move an object? Oh well, maybe that's how they're doing it.
Speaker 1: Can the ghost hurt somebody like you know, punch, roll, push, whatever?
Speaker 1: It was so many questions that blew my mind. And
Speaker 1: then when we finally went up top to see what
Speaker 1: was up top, it was the path that the wheelman
Speaker 1: would walk to go to the original Star of India.
Speaker 1: Wheel It's moved now, it's not where it originally was at,
Speaker 1: but back in the day, that footpath and where it
Speaker 1: stopped was right at the original wheelhouse for the Star
Speaker 1: of India, which makes perfect sense. So we had this
Speaker 1: amazing experience that we could hear, that we could feel,
Speaker 1: and then it actually logically made sense for that activity
Speaker 1: to be where it was at. And that's the need
Speaker 1: that the really cool, above par awesome thing about the
Speaker 1: Star of India is the activity lines up with what
Speaker 1: was going on back in the day, even though it's
Speaker 1: kind of changed a little bit. Yeah, and that was
Speaker 1: one of the first times that it kind of dawned
Speaker 1: on me, like there are different kinds of footsteps you
Speaker 1: can experience as an investigator, because that's when we started
Speaker 1: using geophones. Now, geophones are a device that will light
Speaker 1: up when they sense vibration, and so sometimes you'll hear
Speaker 1: footsteps and you'll just hear footsteps and there's no vibration.
Speaker 1: They're just kind of like these phantom footsteps. But other
Speaker 1: times you'll hear footsteps and no one is there and
Speaker 1: they will come like they will happen, and you'll hear
Speaker 1: creaking of floorboards or you'll actually feel the floor kind
Speaker 1: of moving as though someone is walking towards you. And
Speaker 1: that's what you experienced there. But I don't think before
Speaker 1: that I had kind of realized that there was a difference,
Speaker 1: or even new to look for a difference. I don't
Speaker 1: know necessarily what that means either as far as like
Speaker 1: what does that mean for that spirit? If a spirit
Speaker 1: can manifest enough to make something move, is that a
Speaker 1: stronger spirit or is that more of an intelligent spirit
Speaker 1: versus just kind of phantom footsteps that don't affect the
Speaker 1: surround You know, these are all questions that come up,
Speaker 1: and so something like that we get very excited about.
Speaker 1: And I remember all of us being like, what is happening?
Speaker 1: And also we went back and we checked the DVR
Speaker 1: we had. It was very easy to cover the Star
Speaker 1: of India because it's not a huge vessel, and so
Speaker 1: we were able to like make sure we had every
Speaker 1: um deck covered with the camera and there was no
Speaker 1: one up there when that happened. No, there was not.
Speaker 1: And the edicol thing was is that when Grant went
Speaker 1: up to recreate it, it felt exactly the same. Right now,
Speaker 1: do you remember what the night watchmen were experiencing? Specifically
Speaker 1: that was making them quit by by chance. It was visual,
Speaker 1: it was seeing stuff, shadows, ghostly type figures, and it
Speaker 1: was sounds. It was audible talking sounds and chains rattling. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean that that makes sense. And it's I always
Speaker 1: we hear from night watchman or security guard quite often
Speaker 1: because they're there in the dead of night when everything's quiet,
Speaker 1: and I can't imagine signing on for that job. And
Speaker 1: what kind of surprises you get in a place like
Speaker 1: the Star of India. Now, what other experiences have you
Speaker 1: either had there or have you heard of having or
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, what other experiences have you had? You know
Speaker 1: what I mean, what other experiences have you had there?
Speaker 1: Have you heard of other people having there? Well? The
Speaker 1: other thing that I mean when we were there for
Speaker 1: the show, for the people that want to go watch
Speaker 1: the show, I mean, there was those shadows that were
Speaker 1: happening that we actually documented on camera. The you know,
Speaker 1: the shadow getting in between the light and and the
Speaker 1: cameras of the light would dim out, and that we
Speaker 1: were we were seeing with our eyes and the camera
Speaker 1: documented it. And we know no one was there because
Speaker 1: as skilled investigators were smart enough to experience the activity,
Speaker 1: take it all in and then immediately get to the
Speaker 1: area and just try to debunk it. So we were
Speaker 1: able to get in the area, there's no one there.
Speaker 1: The shadow movement going on. And I don't know if
Speaker 1: this is just science of the motion of the ocean
Speaker 1: or whatever. But do you remember that, you know the
Speaker 1: ropes hanging with the sandbags, and then there would be
Speaker 1: like four of them lined up and only one rope
Speaker 1: sandbag would be swinging while the other three were still
Speaker 1: still perfectly still not moving at all. I mean, what
Speaker 1: was that all about? Why would just one sandbag on
Speaker 1: a rope hanging rock and the other three that are
Speaker 1: next to it not rock. What is that all about?
Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah, I don't know either. I mean
Speaker 1: that could be movement, of course, but also on the
Speaker 1: ship stock. But I guess it is moving a little bit. Now,
Speaker 1: remind me and if I get this wrong, we'll just
Speaker 1: cut This was the star of India that what had
Speaker 1: the the popping shrimp underneath it? Or was that? Yes? Yes,
Speaker 1: I just remember being deep in the bottom of this
Speaker 1: ship and there are these weird shrimp and so these
Speaker 1: are the things that have to deal with as a
Speaker 1: paranormal investigator. There were these these popping shrimp. And I
Speaker 1: went down there and I was like, what is happening
Speaker 1: to this? I thought the thing was sinking, but they
Speaker 1: all night just popped so loudly. And if you didn't
Speaker 1: know what those were, I don't know what you would
Speaker 1: think was happening or what you would think you were experiencing.
Speaker 1: I mean, and that, you know, again part of being
Speaker 1: an investigator having to discern between you know, popping shrimp
Speaker 1: and ghosts. But I mean, I do think that when
Speaker 1: you're investigating a place like that, you do have to
Speaker 1: deal with extraordinary circumstances. My local team we had investigated
Speaker 1: it before. We knew about that, so we let Jane
Speaker 1: Grant know so that But I don't think they told
Speaker 1: you guys because they want you to experience it first.
Speaker 1: Or did you know when you were going down there.
Speaker 1: I can't remember how that ruled out. Oh yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: so they let you go in blind and then they
Speaker 1: explained it. But yeah, we knew about that ahead of time,
Speaker 1: and that was the nice The nice thing about the
Speaker 1: show is some of the some of the places we
Speaker 1: went were kind of pre screened for us, so we
Speaker 1: can rule a bunch of stuff out and not waste time,
Speaker 1: so we could look for actual activity. But the cool
Speaker 1: think about the popping shrimp that most people don't know
Speaker 1: is the popping sound. It's something in it at the
Speaker 1: tail the foot. I don't know something, but it's moving.
Speaker 1: It's breaking the speed of sound. So that's what that
Speaker 1: pop sound is. Whatever's in it is going so fast
Speaker 1: is breaking the sound barrier. So bizarre. That is the
Speaker 1: only place I've ever experienced the popping shrimp, and I've
Speaker 1: never experienced it since. But yeah, it makes perfect sense
Speaker 1: that they would not have told me. I barely knew
Speaker 1: I was going to that investigation. I just kind of
Speaker 1: appeared in San Diego one day and I was like,
Speaker 1: I guess, I'm this is what I'm doing for the
Speaker 1: rest of my life. You are? I mean, I knew
Speaker 1: i'd be looking for ghosts. I just didn't know. I
Speaker 1: kind of just assumed it would be like, Oh, I'll
Speaker 1: just do a few episodes of this show ghost Hunters
Speaker 1: yet and and then I never went home again. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I do think there's just so much lore around ships
Speaker 1: and their ghosts, and I almost feel like that adds
Speaker 1: to the activity, because I do think that sailors and
Speaker 1: people who spend a lot of their life on the
Speaker 1: water are just particularly superstitious, and they do put a
Speaker 1: lot of stock in kind of the spiritual side of
Speaker 1: what they do. And do you think that's why the
Speaker 1: Star of India still has so much going on? I
Speaker 1: think there's a lot to the Star of India. And
Speaker 1: there's there's stuff. Okay, I'm start with the happy stuff first.
Speaker 1: So a sailor, the ship to a sailor is it's
Speaker 1: is his mother. And the reason that you know, the
Speaker 1: lower the superstition is you never have a woman on
Speaker 1: a on a ship back then, is because the only
Speaker 1: woman in that sailor's life is supposed to be the ship,
Speaker 1: not another woman running around the decks, because then that
Speaker 1: creates strife among the man, et cetera. But the but
Speaker 1: to a sailor, they want to be in the ocean.
Speaker 1: They want to be with their woman, which is their ship.
Speaker 1: And that's why when they die, if you haven't if
Speaker 1: we have a choice to go where we want to go,
Speaker 1: a sailor would probably pick their ship. That's where they
Speaker 1: want to go. But the Star of India did twenty
Speaker 1: something trips around the world before late eighteen eighties, and
Speaker 1: that was in the human immigrant trade. They brought families over,
Speaker 1: immigrant families. They started bringing them from all over, like
Speaker 1: that was the business of the ship. And so there
Speaker 1: would be entire families they're including children, and there were
Speaker 1: babies born on that ship. And I feel like I
Speaker 1: don't think any of us can understand today, well most
Speaker 1: of us cannot understand today the desperation of kind of
Speaker 1: going into the unknown and getting on a ship like
Speaker 1: that with your entire family and just hoping you make
Speaker 1: it to the other side. And they ate terribly and
Speaker 1: it was miserable, like absolutely miserable, and people did die
Speaker 1: on board, people were very sick. Not as many people
Speaker 1: died on boards I think people would assume under those conditions,
Speaker 1: but that I feel like that desperation leads to some
Speaker 1: sort of manifestation of energy, whether or not it is
Speaker 1: them they're like in their conscious state, or just that
Speaker 1: bit of them that was holding onto so much hope
Speaker 1: in that ship. Like I would love to get back
Speaker 1: there eventually and do like a more kind of a
Speaker 1: longer investigation and find out more about who is actually there.
Speaker 1: But a lot of emotion, and it makes complete sense
Speaker 1: why it would be haunted. Do you think it's possible
Speaker 1: that like a location like the Star of India where
Speaker 1: you have so many people going through there and so
Speaker 1: many highly emotional experience is happening, whether it's terror or
Speaker 1: love of the ship, but that that random energy that's
Speaker 1: kind of floating around, that it can kind of connect
Speaker 1: to each other and then make coalesce all of its
Speaker 1: energy from the various other spirits that are there then
Speaker 1: to be able to do those footsteps or to make
Speaker 1: that shadow appear or make that voice sound. I mean,
Speaker 1: can you think that the spirit world can work on
Speaker 1: its side, work together to then send a signal to
Speaker 1: our side. I think that that kind of emotion can
Speaker 1: even create ghosts, you know, not necessarily, like, but I
Speaker 1: do think that it does be come something over time.
Speaker 1: And then if you have people touring it every day
Speaker 1: and kind of revisiting those experiences and bringing it up
Speaker 1: again and again, we're talking about the hauntings again and again. Like,
Speaker 1: I do feel like that kind of either keeps it
Speaker 1: alive or kind of awakens it. And so I wouldn't
Speaker 1: be surprised if they have things going on now. I
Speaker 1: know they have not. I think they haven't really done
Speaker 1: a lot of investigations. I haven't heard a lot about
Speaker 1: ghost tours or anything going on there, but I do
Speaker 1: hear of it as being a haunted spot. Whenever I'm
Speaker 1: in San Diego, people are like, go to the Star
Speaker 1: of India, go to the Whaley House. You know, they
Speaker 1: know it's haunted. I just I can't help but wonder
Speaker 1: if that has something to do with it, because you
Speaker 1: just you do not have ships like that still in
Speaker 1: existence that have that went through that same history. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I know you don't. And I do know that around
Speaker 1: the Halloween time they do do a haunted tour. I
Speaker 1: have seen that, but it's it's not like an investigation.
Speaker 1: It's more of a guided tour with dose sets, telling
Speaker 1: tall tales and entertaining the crowd type of thing. But
Speaker 1: you are right. I mean they're at least at least
Speaker 1: once a week I get a message from somebody on
Speaker 1: the socials. Have you been to the Haunted Star of India,
Speaker 1: like a few times. Yeah, it's lower is out there,
Speaker 1: And you are right, And and maybe we are energy
Speaker 1: about that ship and people that go to that ship
Speaker 1: looking for the ghost, that our collective energy is feeding
Speaker 1: the spirit side energy, almost like they could plug into
Speaker 1: us and then they make happen what they make happen,
Speaker 1: which is it's cool and scary at the same time.
Speaker 1: It wouldn't surprise me one bit. Well, hopefully they will
Speaker 1: invite us back soon and and yeah, Candred Spirits, that
Speaker 1: would be fabulous. I would love to go to San Diego.
Speaker 1: So Star of India, if you're listening, we're looking for cases,
Speaker 1: so if there's anyone there. But I mean, aside from
Speaker 1: aside from that, it has been lovely talking with you.
Speaker 1: As always, I do appreciate you taking the time. I
Speaker 1: know this interview was not easy because I'm currently in
Speaker 1: Europe and so the time change and everything has been bonkers.
Speaker 1: But thank you for sticking with me and chatting about
Speaker 1: old times and the very haunted Star of India's Hopefully
Speaker 1: we can get back there soon. That would be amazing.
Speaker 1: I will watch that episode for sure. Well, thank you
Speaker 1: again and um yeah, hopefully we'll see each other again soon.
Speaker 1: So I hope you and the family are well after
Speaker 1: they are and same to you. Safe travels. I can't
Speaker 1: wait for your season premiere. Obviously, the Star of India
Speaker 1: holds a special place in my Heart having been one
Speaker 1: of the first ever cases I did on Ghost Hunters. Well,
Speaker 1: I definitely investigated the paranormal prior to my appearance on
Speaker 1: your TV screens. Those early years of g H actually
Speaker 1: hold a lot of nostalgia for me. That aside, the
Speaker 1: Star of India is one of those strange dichotomies in
Speaker 1: a tourist world. You have kids happily skipping below deck,
Speaker 1: or people once pinned all their hopes and dreams, barely surviving,
Speaker 1: just trying to make a better life. You have her
Speaker 1: beautiful silhouette backdrop against the iconic San Diego waterfront, with
Speaker 1: many probably walking past, not knowing what secrets and energy
Speaker 1: the wood and steel holds deep in its bones. Hopefully
Speaker 1: the spirits there have found their way, following the star
Speaker 1: that was always meant to guide them. I'm Amy Bruney
Speaker 1: and this was Haunted Road. Haunted Road is a production
Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio and Grim and Mild from Aaron Mankey.
Speaker 1: Haunted Road is hosted and written by me Amy Bruney,
Speaker 1: additional research by Taylor Haggerdorn. The show is edited and
Speaker 1: produced by rema El Kali and supervising producer Josh Thing
Speaker 1: and executive producers Aaron Manky, Alex Williams, and Matt Frederick.
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from I heart Radio, visit the I
Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
Speaker 1: your favorite shows.