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Speaker 1: Energy storage is important for the continued rollout of clean energy. However,

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Speaker 1: a series of twenty nine fires at battery storage facilities

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Speaker 1: in South Korea since just have called their safety into question.

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Speaker 1: The research note behind today's episode is titled Ensuring Safe

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Speaker 1: Use of Lithium Ion Batteries and it can be found

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Speaker 1: at BENF dot com, at b NF go on the

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg terminal, or via the b NF app. Just as

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Speaker 1: a quick reminder, BENNF does not provide investment or strategy advice,

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Speaker 1: and we have a complete disclaimer at the end of

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Speaker 1: the show. I am Dana Perkins, and you're listening to

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Switched on the ben EF podcast. I'm joined today

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Speaker 1: by Yi Sine and she leads b NFS researched on

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Speaker 1: decentralized energy, alongside James Frith, who leads our research on

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Speaker 1: energy storage. Let's hear from our guests. Yea YOI thank

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Speaker 1: you for joining us today. Thank you for having me

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Speaker 1: and James, thank you for being on Switched on Hi Data,

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Speaker 1: Thank for having me. So let's start at the very

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Speaker 1: beginning here. What inspired you guys are actually got you

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Speaker 1: guys to think that this was an important thing? To

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Speaker 1: start researching and looking at now, which is a lot

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Speaker 1: of the battery fires for a stationary storage in South Korea. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I can take that just to kick off and give

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Speaker 1: some context. The energy storage market is clearly growing quite rapidly.

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Speaker 1: In particular, Korea has been a leading market in terms

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Speaker 1: of total deployment in the world over the past two

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Speaker 1: to three years. This year is probably going to fall

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Speaker 1: off the ranks. But in that context, the market growing

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Speaker 1: so rapidly also means that there is I suppose some

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Speaker 1: slowness with regards to safety regulation or to safety certification

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Speaker 1: that has to kind of keep up with the place

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Speaker 1: of development of the market, and in Korea in particular,

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Speaker 1: that that has been an issue because we've seen multiple

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Speaker 1: fires by this year. UM and in May we actually

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Speaker 1: walk Korea experience the twenty nine better fire incidents, which

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Speaker 1: is quite alarming. So twenty nine different fires in different

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Speaker 1: installations in Korea. UM. So that really comes put into

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Speaker 1: question the development of the industry and what has to

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Speaker 1: be done to ensure that we're deploying safe energy storage systems.

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Speaker 1: And this is twenty nine fires across you said two years. Yes,

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Speaker 1: since seen at least in Korea, we've seen that these

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Speaker 1: incidents happening, and I guess in context, what we saw

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Speaker 1: was a market that really boomed at the back of

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Speaker 1: really generous subsidies in the market, which meant that a

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Speaker 1: lot of like generally and experienced developers or integrators were

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Speaker 1: were essentially rushing to to build out a lot of

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Speaker 1: battery projects in the country, which also led to kind

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Speaker 1: of rush on the edges to actually deploy these systems. UM.

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Speaker 1: And at the back of that, of course, we've we've

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Speaker 1: ended up seeing a sad a sad outcome around around

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Speaker 1: the battery fires. So we're gonna be speaking specifically about

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Speaker 1: South Koreatia today. I mean, I guess it's more of

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Speaker 1: a case study. But have there been fires elsewhere that

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Speaker 1: are notable that provide context as well. Yeah, So I

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Speaker 1: think the reason why, in particular, I guess at the

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Speaker 1: twenty five at twenty nine incidents, this becomes particularly relevant.

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Speaker 1: But I think what's more relevant contemporarily is Arizona Public

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Speaker 1: Service or utility in Arizona here in the US, they

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Speaker 1: released a reports regarding a battery fire that they had

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Speaker 1: last year in April and UM and the results of that,

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Speaker 1: I think we're quite um, we're quite helpful for us

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Speaker 1: to understand the context of safety and certifications, not just

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Speaker 1: in Korea, but elsewhere as well. So that's kind of

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Speaker 1: why we wanted to bring that conversation here today. I

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Speaker 1: think one thing to kind of just jump in and

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Speaker 1: add as well is that, um, you know, I think

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Speaker 1: I think we kind of are talking about battery fires

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Speaker 1: focusing on Korea. Obviously there's the a p S one

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Speaker 1: Energy had a battery fire one of the islet testing

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Speaker 1: facilities as well, and it gets a lot of well

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Speaker 1: in the battery community and the en George community, it

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Speaker 1: gets a lot of attention. But actually the twenty nine

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Speaker 1: five that we're talking about in Korea effect you know,

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Speaker 1: roughly about five percent of the total deployed capacity. So

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Speaker 1: although you know, it's a lot of attention, it's actually

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Speaker 1: a readatively small amount of kind of deployed projects or affected.

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Speaker 1: So James and this brings us to a good point

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Speaker 1: for us to try and understand why do we think

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Speaker 1: that these fires are happening. I mean, even within that

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Speaker 1: five percent, ideally they're very difficult to put out and

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Speaker 1: people really don't want these to be happening. So I

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Speaker 1: suppose diagnosing what could be the issue is probably step one.

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Speaker 1: Can you provide us with some insight there? Yes, certainly,

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Speaker 1: And I guess this is the kind of the million

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Speaker 1: dollar question. And I guess I kind of literally mean

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Speaker 1: that because there's obviously, you know, huge kind of insurance

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Speaker 1: liabilities associated with these fires, um and determining you know,

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Speaker 1: what the causes actually influences you know, who whose insurance

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Speaker 1: or who is liable for you know, the project catching

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Speaker 1: fire in the kind of any you know, resulting costs

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Speaker 1: that the recurring products. And I think there's kind of

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Speaker 1: I suppose a couple of the things to look at here.

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Speaker 1: There obviously reports off the back of the fires and Korea,

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Speaker 1: but as the AO mentioned, there was recently, you know,

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Speaker 1: the the APS fire report that was published about a

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Speaker 1: month or so ago, which was quite enlightening, should we say,

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Speaker 1: in the kind of cause of the fire. But just

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Speaker 1: starting with the Korean fires, obviously, you know the twenty

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Speaker 1: nine fires there, there's a lot of work was done

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Speaker 1: on that to try and understand, you know, what caused them.

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Speaker 1: And while that work was going on, you know, there

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Speaker 1: were certain safety measures put in place by the you know,

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Speaker 1: the authorities in Korea to try and prevent this from happening.

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Speaker 1: You know, one part of that was limiting the capacity

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Speaker 1: of the storage systems that could be used. About the

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Speaker 1: total capacity. It is actually just as they lifted those

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Speaker 1: regulations that we had the fire earlier this year in May,

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Speaker 1: so that's quite interesting to see. But off the back

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Speaker 1: of the kind of fires in Korea, there's a report

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Speaker 1: that came out and identified I guess four key areas

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Speaker 1: that could be behind these fires, and just to kind

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Speaker 1: of run through them them quite quickly and then I

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Speaker 1: can dive into a bit more detail. The first thing

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Speaker 1: that they identified was exposure to humidity. Obviously, moisture and

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Speaker 1: electronics don't mix that well. Moisture in the inside of

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Speaker 1: batteries mixed even worse. So that's the first thing that

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Speaker 1: they identified. The next thing would then be kind of

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Speaker 1: defectory defective battery cells or modules kind of building on

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Speaker 1: the detector cell. I guess, you know, they said that

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Speaker 1: potentially there could have been external damage caused to the

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Speaker 1: either the system or the cells and modules during construction.

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Speaker 1: And finally, you know, it's possible that the battery management

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Speaker 1: system was faulty and didn't control the systems within the

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Speaker 1: kind of parameters that they were meant to. So this

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Speaker 1: was kind of what was identified in the Korean fire incidents.

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Speaker 1: And actually that kind of covers the full value chain

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Speaker 1: from cell manufacturer down to kind of integrator and indeed

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Speaker 1: battery operator. So there's a range of different areas to

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Speaker 1: look at there, and also you know, off the back

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Speaker 1: of that different recommendations on how you could prevent this

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Speaker 1: from happening again, you know, leading on from the defective

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Speaker 1: battery cell, and this is what a lot of people

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Speaker 1: suspected could be behind it, because you know, although there

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Speaker 1: is a huge amount of safety considerations that go into

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Speaker 1: designing batteries and building the cells themselves and modules are

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Speaker 1: packed and everything else, you know, you essentially have a

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Speaker 1: lot of energy contained within earty in mind battery and

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Speaker 1: if something goes wrong with that battery, it can it

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Speaker 1: can kind of get out of hand pretty quickly. Could

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Speaker 1: you explain really quickly what out of hand means? Because

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Speaker 1: I know that you know, for everybody listening, I know

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Speaker 1: they're very difficult to put out, so you can't just

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Speaker 1: have a fire truck come up and throw some water

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Speaker 1: on it. But what else does out of hand mean

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Speaker 1: in this context, yes, certainly. So at the kind of

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Speaker 1: base level, you have to consider the chemistry and particularly

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Speaker 1: chemistry the cathode to understand the kind of safety requirements

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Speaker 1: and implications of Littingman battery. There's essentially two families of

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Speaker 1: cathode chemistries that are used. You have your nickels based

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Speaker 1: cathodes and your misty mind phosphate based cathodes. So the

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Speaker 1: nickel based cathodes are considered to be high energy, don't see.

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Speaker 1: They have what's called kind of transition metal oxide based materials,

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Speaker 1: and what happens is when the material itself is heated

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Speaker 1: above a certain point, you find that oxygen start to

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Speaker 1: be evolved from that cathode material. So the listeman phosphate materials,

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Speaker 1: there is oxygen in there, but it's locked in in

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Speaker 1: what's called a kind of phosphate an iron, and it's

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Speaker 1: hard u for that oxygen to be released. You have

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Speaker 1: to go to kind of higher temperatures. So with the

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Speaker 1: nickel based material, once that oxygen starts being released, once

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Speaker 1: it gets hot enough and actually kind of oxygen is

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Speaker 1: just released from the cathode, that's what then can cause

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Speaker 1: the Litta mind battery fire to fuel itself. If you know,

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Speaker 1: even in the case of adding water from a firefighter,

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Speaker 1: for example, some people out there, you know, might be

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Speaker 1: familiar with I think they call them cherry bombs in

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Speaker 1: the US, where you can chuck them in water and

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Speaker 1: the fuse will still burn. It will it will kind

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Speaker 1: of go bang at the end. And you know, that's

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Speaker 1: the kind of self propagation that you get with the

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Speaker 1: lity mind battery. It feeds its own kind of fire.

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Speaker 1: So it doesn't matter if this water, it's still gonna

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Speaker 1: keep going. So on the topic of preventing these from happening,

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Speaker 1: there is a lot of attention on trying to figure

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Speaker 1: out which one or maybe all four of the potential

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Speaker 1: causes is actually the primary cause of these fires. What's

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Speaker 1: then happening from a regulatory stand point, because presumably there

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Speaker 1: is a place that in terms of trying to ensure

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Speaker 1: safety for the end consumer, since you know five percent

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Speaker 1: of these actually are catching fire, that the government maybe

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Speaker 1: has to play in South Korea, and and what do

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Speaker 1: you see coming down the pipe? Yeah, I can, I

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Speaker 1: can give some contexts there. So I mentioned something earlier,

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Speaker 1: which is the industry tends to develop and because it's

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Speaker 1: such a new industry, it's it's developing at a more

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Speaker 1: rapid pace than certifications and often regulations, so it's a

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Speaker 1: bit of a game of trying to catch up with

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Speaker 1: the pace of growth UM and responding quite quickly when

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Speaker 1: incidents happened. In the case of Korea, for example, what

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Speaker 1: they immediately immediately did was stop issuing some new permits

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Speaker 1: for new projects, and then at the back of that

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Speaker 1: also required that the existing and operating facilities reduced their

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Speaker 1: operating parameters. So essentially you're not charging it up to

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Speaker 1: or probably you're you're only charging it up to or,

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Speaker 1: which is a bit of a problem as well, because

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Speaker 1: the way the incentive systems might be designed might might

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Speaker 1: actually favor projects actually operating at a higher higher operating range,

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Speaker 1: which isn't great. But they try to kind of compensate

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Speaker 1: for that as well, so there's kind of that immediate

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Speaker 1: response that that has to happen. Then kind of secondarily

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Speaker 1: is okay, so now we have to review all the

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Speaker 1: safety standards that are in place, make adjustments, and UM

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Speaker 1: kind of push it out to the industry as a requirement.

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Speaker 1: And these requirements tend to be either i a international

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Speaker 1: or be local, so international in the sense of there

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Speaker 1: are a few international bodies issuing certification so I e.

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Speaker 1: SE and and UEL as well, So they essentially set

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Speaker 1: up of different certification metrics or certification standards for different

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Speaker 1: parts of the system as well as the system as

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Speaker 1: a whole. UH and and essentially battery developers or system

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Speaker 1: integrators are trying to get their systems certified by these

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Speaker 1: body is that generally have certifications that are accepted across

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Speaker 1: different markets. At a more local level and perhaps at

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Speaker 1: a more dramatic level, you might see something like New

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Speaker 1: York City having much more restrictive certification and safety requirements,

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Speaker 1: which might actually mean you it just takes too much

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Speaker 1: longer for you to get the permits and all the

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Speaker 1: additional paperwork that you might need to to actually get

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Speaker 1: the systems installed in the first place. And are they

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Speaker 1: certification systems essentially leading to more reliable units being installed,

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Speaker 1: So I mean they're more compliance with the safety certifications

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Speaker 1: that have evolved over time. So in a way, yes,

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Speaker 1: they are more safe than probably what you would have

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Speaker 1: seen installed five years ago. There's a general recognition in

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Speaker 1: the industry that there's still work to be done UM

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Speaker 1: and a lot of it is is kind of trial

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Speaker 1: and error as well, and trial and error error not

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Speaker 1: necessarily meaning a battery fire, but but definitely doing a

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Speaker 1: lot more testing and understanding kind of the operations of

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Speaker 1: in place. And you mentioned certification and actually the South

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Speaker 1: Korean government noting that they are not installing anymore at

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Speaker 1: least for the time being until the figure out kind

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Speaker 1: of I guess what the problem is. And the next

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Speaker 1: question I have on that is are these units being

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Speaker 1: exported to other countries and is this a fairly robust

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Speaker 1: international marketplace for these that's kind of originating in South Korea. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'll just correct that they positive for for a period

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Speaker 1: period of time, which is when they were basically doing

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Speaker 1: the investigation to understand the group causes for the battery fires,

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Speaker 1: after which they essentially issued new rules that new battery

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Speaker 1: projects have to comply with UM and then reopened permits

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Speaker 1: for new new project development. So since then there has

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Speaker 1: been additional projects kind of being permitted. Okay, so we're

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Speaker 1: back on good Yeah, I know, But but I will

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Speaker 1: say that the twenty ninth battery fire incidents happened in

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Speaker 1: the context of kind of the new regulations in place,

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Speaker 1: So it's it's a bit of a blow in the

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Speaker 1: industry in that sense. But regardless, I think on your

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Speaker 1: points in question regarding exports of batteries and the role

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Speaker 1: of Korean manufacturers overseas is I think, for for a

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Speaker 1: lot of time, especially because Korea was that kind of

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Speaker 1: first moving, bigger market in the world, we had thought

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Speaker 1: of the battery fires as erroneously probably as a potential

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Speaker 1: career problem, which is why in the context of the

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Speaker 1: APS for battery incidents this became more relevant. So, yeah,

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Speaker 1: l G CAM times, I guess see, I a lot

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Speaker 1: of the Korean players are major players in the global

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Speaker 1: market and supply battery modules too, larger utility scale, and

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Speaker 1: the animator projects globally as well. It's in a way

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Speaker 1: there was a lot of concern any company or developer

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Speaker 1: who was integrating a storage system if they really cared

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Speaker 1: about what was happening in Korea one among these twenty

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Speaker 1: nine fires. And I guess the yeah, you're saying, it's

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Speaker 1: across the industry. So my question has to do with

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Speaker 1: which companies are associated with these fires. Is there a

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Speaker 1: correlation between a few or is it just kind of

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Speaker 1: across the lithium ion universe. If you will. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think we can be specific with with what we know.

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Speaker 1: So just to give an example, and I know, we

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Speaker 1: keep going back to the APS facility. So the APS

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Speaker 1: facility was integrated by FLUENCE, which is a joint venture

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Speaker 1: between a S and semens that particular facility, and these

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Speaker 1: are all publicly disclosed information. That facility used ALGICM batteries,

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Speaker 1: and so I mean, you could try to put your

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Speaker 1: finger and say this is an algacam problem. But as

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Speaker 1: you like, from reading the report, you'll see it's not

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Speaker 1: just about the battery cells themselves. The safety of a

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Speaker 1: system entails a lot of components that within them is

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Speaker 1: ensuring the batteries it's safe. But as James kind of

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Speaker 1: broke down in the in the career example, you have

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Speaker 1: to ensure all the other elements are in place as well.

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Speaker 1: So you have to have some form of suppression system

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Speaker 1: which is appropriate for batteries and not necessarily just for

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Speaker 1: a regular fire. So looking into this, surely there are

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Speaker 1: some things that sort of came to your mind. And

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Speaker 1: I know that you know we're researchers and we are

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Speaker 1: not regulators, but what recommendations would you say that you

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Speaker 1: guys have for the industry, and how would you like

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Speaker 1: to see this carried forward. I mean, it's it's an

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Speaker 1: interesting question. I think what we certainly don't want to

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Speaker 1: see is the industry being derailed by what is a

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Speaker 1: relatively kind of limited problem. You know. I think we

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Speaker 1: talked about the twenty nine fives in Korea in particular. Okay,

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Speaker 1: there's the example of APS in the US and the

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Speaker 1: Energy's pilot plant, but generally, you know, listening miland battery

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Speaker 1: project kind of are fine and we don't see these fires,

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Speaker 1: and so you know, I think it's more that we

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Speaker 1: shouldn't scare the industry off and put people from buildings

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Speaker 1: these but just being more aware of, Okay, what what

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Speaker 1: are the risks and how can we prevent this from happening?

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Speaker 1: And I think for me, you know, the main risk

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Speaker 1: is this issue of list of mind battery being able

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Speaker 1: to kind of sustain its own or propagate its own fire.

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Speaker 1: So really it's about thinking of how you how you

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Speaker 1: can kind of mitigate that from happening. So what improved

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Speaker 1: fire fighting techniques can you you put in there? And

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Speaker 1: one of the things that people often highlight is being

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Speaker 1: able to cool the cells down more so you can't

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Speaker 1: put it out with water, but if you can take

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Speaker 1: the energy away from that cell, it won't get so

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Speaker 1: hot that it will release oxygen. And so people are

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Speaker 1: looking at using what's called liquid cooling in spacially storage projects,

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Speaker 1: and this is something that's used in electric vehicles already,

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Speaker 1: but to date, generally saciary storage projects have used kind

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Speaker 1: of air conditioning systems essentially because it's cheaper and easier

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Speaker 1: to install. But I think we'll probably move in the

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Speaker 1: direction where we see more of these liquid cooling systems

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Speaker 1: coming into place. Can I just make a comments under

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Speaker 1: liquid cooling versus air cord systems UM? And this is

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Speaker 1: more of a person or anecdotes. So we talked about

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Speaker 1: the APS facility, and actually, like four days before the

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Speaker 1: fire incidents in the APS facility, I had visited the

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Speaker 1: sister facility, which is kind of like very similar respects

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Speaker 1: to the one that actually had the battery and the

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Speaker 1: battery fire incident, which is kind of scary actually because

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Speaker 1: it was like just four days after and then I

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Speaker 1: was like, I was just at a facility that was

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Speaker 1: very similar to it, but just to give you kind

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Speaker 1: of a mental image of what that's like, It's a

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Speaker 1: facility that's pretty much located in a very desert like zone,

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Speaker 1: so it's in the middle of a lot of like

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Speaker 1: sands um It's close ish, but you you only in

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Speaker 1: the distance, could see like neighbor a specific neighborhood, which

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Speaker 1: is essentially what they were trying to test with the

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Speaker 1: battery facility. That particular neighborhood has a lot of rooftop solar,

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Speaker 1: so they were trying to test different things on their

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Speaker 1: distribution feeder, try different types of services with the batteries themselves.

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Speaker 1: It's also from a temperature perspective, it's like forty plus

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Speaker 1: degrees in the summer at peak times see celsius more

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Speaker 1: than a hundred fahrenheit, which I mean for me just

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Speaker 1: looking at that facility, if you imagine it wasn't it's

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Speaker 1: not a container. It's like a building system, but it's

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Speaker 1: like under a beating sun. And so what really struck

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Speaker 1: me going into that facility was actually the noise of

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Speaker 1: the fans. It was actually hard for you to like

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Speaker 1: talk to each other within the facility because there was

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Speaker 1: so many, so many of the fans that are located

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Speaker 1: at the module level as well, that those are just

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Speaker 1: like ringing into your ear, So it's like quite loud.

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Speaker 1: So thermal management on a consistent basis obviously is important,

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Speaker 1: but it's also quite interesting to see if we moved

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Speaker 1: towards a liquid cooling system, maybe we don't see as

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Speaker 1: loud systems as as the one I visited. Okay, let's

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Speaker 1: let's continue to go down that road. Take my mind

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Speaker 1: to this physical space. How big is it physically? And

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Speaker 1: then secondly, how much capacity does it actually store? Like

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Speaker 1: how meaningful are these is a part of the grid. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: maybe I'm painted it as a bigger facility than it

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Speaker 1: actually is. So it's a two megawat too megawat our

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Speaker 1: system physically we can look at at the checks I

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Speaker 1: don't off the top of my head, but it's more

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Speaker 1: or less imagine like a container, um a little bigger

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Speaker 1: than a container in case like essentially, yeah, you imagine

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Speaker 1: a container with like walls built around that container. That's

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Speaker 1: essentially kind of the size of the facility. So it's

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Speaker 1: technically not a big facility compared to a lot of

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Speaker 1: the large scale storage systems that we're starting to see

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Speaker 1: come online today and in the coming years. So it's

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Speaker 1: fairly small in that sense. We're talking specifically in this

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Speaker 1: context really though again about South Korea, but there are

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Speaker 1: definitely other manufacturers that are looking to play a bigger

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Speaker 1: role in this space, so specifically within the battery manufacturing

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Speaker 1: rather than the automotive manufacturing of liftium ion batteries. Can

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Speaker 1: you discuss maybe some of the other countries that might

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Speaker 1: be looking at this as a opportunity and maybe the

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Speaker 1: sorts of things they need to do or the sorts

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Speaker 1: of opportunities that are available to them. As there's those

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Speaker 1: regulatory focus on the South Korean market, I think probably

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Speaker 1: the company or the countries to look at here is

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Speaker 1: the two large battery manufacturers are really Career and China

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Speaker 1: and Korea, or the Korean manufacturers produced these nickel based

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Speaker 1: chemistries that I've mentioned, Whereas for the stationary storage market,

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Speaker 1: the Chinese manufacturers are trying to push lithium and phosphate

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Speaker 1: chemistry that I mentioned earlier, and lithium or some people

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Speaker 1: kind of consider lithium are and phosphate to be slightly

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Speaker 1: better suited for use in statory storage because it's kind

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Speaker 1: of not quite so prone to release oxygen as the

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Speaker 1: nickel based chemistries, and so it's it's kind of safety

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Speaker 1: performance is slightly better than than the nickel based chemistries.

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Speaker 1: And so the Chinese company is trying to you know,

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Speaker 1: deploy this in the in the staciary storage market, and

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Speaker 1: actually at the same time they're trying to expand globally

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Speaker 1: because at the moment, the Chinese stationing storage manage factories

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Speaker 1: or manufacturers of batteries are very much focused on the

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Speaker 1: Chinese market, but they want to grow as as the

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Speaker 1: stationary storage market grows around the rest of the world

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Speaker 1: and the EV market, and so this awareness of the

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Speaker 1: kind of safety of stationary storage projects could be the

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Speaker 1: opportunity for Chinese manufacturers to kind of enter the global

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Speaker 1: storage market. That being said, you know, there's an increasing

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Speaker 1: focus on local manufacturing of batteries, and you know, although

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Speaker 1: companies generally fart off by talking about manufacturing batteries for

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Speaker 1: ev s locally, if you have a battery manufacturing facility,

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Speaker 1: it could produce them to evs or equally, you could

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Speaker 1: start producing them to stationary storage as well. So we

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Speaker 1: could see you know, a shift in who's supplying cells

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Speaker 1: for statiary storage systems as a result of this. And

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Speaker 1: maybe this goes without saying but can you just for

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Speaker 1: our listeners some up quickly. Why you think it's important

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Speaker 1: for the stationary storage space to take off for the

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Speaker 1: rest of the grid. Perhaps, yeah, I think. I mean

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Speaker 1: it's a it's a pretty known story. I guess the

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Speaker 1: growth growth of renewables and the context of de carbonizing

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Speaker 1: our power system, part of that will require more flexibility

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Speaker 1: in the way we operate our systems because renewables essentially

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Speaker 1: aren't a flexible technology. That's essentially where batteries come in.

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Speaker 1: Take advantage of dropping costs, you can start adding lower

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Speaker 1: cost systems um and so from from a grid empower

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Speaker 1: system perspective at energy storage to balance the variability of

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Speaker 1: the grid is kind of an important and increasingly important

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Speaker 1: part of how we're going to construct our our grid

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Speaker 1: of the future. Well on that night, Joy and James,

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Speaker 1: thank you very much for joining switched On today and

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Speaker 1: gears to hoping they figure out what is causing the

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Speaker 1: fires so we can see this important and critical industry

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Speaker 1: take off. Thank you day. Today's episode of Switched On

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Speaker 1: was edited by Rex Warner whom Graytak Media. Bloomberg an

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Speaker 1: it be construed, as investment advice, investment recommendations, or a

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Speaker 1: recommendation as to an investment or other strategy. Bloomberg an

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Speaker 1: EPP should not be considered as information sufficient upon which

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Speaker 1: to base an investment decision. Neither Bloomberg Finance LP nor

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Speaker 1: any of its affiliates makes any representation or warranty as

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Speaker 1: this recording, and any liability as a result of this recording.

436
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:31,479
Speaker 1: Did express the disclip