WEBVTT - SYSK Selects: Lying Liars: How Lying Works, Liar 0:00:00.800 --> 0:00:05.120 Hey, everybody, This is Chuck and welcome to Uh. I 0:00:05.160 --> 0:00:09.600 guess this is week three of s Y S Kate Selects, 0:00:10.480 --> 0:00:12.600 where we give you one of our favorite or maybe 0:00:12.600 --> 0:00:16.200 a timely episode from our vault that maybe you didn't hear. 0:00:16.960 --> 0:00:20.360 And uh we're curating these individually, and this is my 0:00:20.400 --> 0:00:26.040 pick lying Liars colon how lying works? Liar, I think 0:00:26.079 --> 0:00:28.960 that was It sounds like a Josh title. It's a 0:00:28.960 --> 0:00:32.920 great one. This is from June of twelve, and um, 0:00:32.960 --> 0:00:34.440 I don't know. I just remember this being a pretty 0:00:34.479 --> 0:00:38.240 good episode and lying is um just a pretty interesting 0:00:38.280 --> 0:00:41.879 concept to me. And so I wanted to make this 0:00:41.960 --> 0:00:43.919 my selection this week and I hope you enjoy it. 0:00:45.280 --> 0:00:48.720 Welcome to Stuff you Should Know from House Stuff Works 0:00:48.760 --> 0:00:57.680 dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. 0:00:58.000 --> 0:01:02.440 There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, Right, Yeah, take it, Chuck, 0:01:05.280 --> 0:01:08.000 Josh that that shirt looks great on you today. I 0:01:08.120 --> 0:01:10.880 just want to say that, Uh, I really like a 0:01:11.000 --> 0:01:14.000 checked pattern. Well, I see what you're doing. Um, you're 0:01:14.080 --> 0:01:16.760 blinking and you're scratching your face. It looks like you 0:01:16.880 --> 0:01:21.319 have scabies like my friend Dirty Mitch. Yeah. Um, but 0:01:21.440 --> 0:01:24.760 that doesn't indicate necessarily that you're lying. I'm glad you 0:01:24.760 --> 0:01:26.840 said necessarily, because they didn't say that in this article, 0:01:26.840 --> 0:01:29.240 and that was a very important omission. Now they did. 0:01:29.720 --> 0:01:34.600 They didn't say necessarily, they meaning Tom, Tom didn't say necessarily. 0:01:34.920 --> 0:01:37.760 I had to write it in because what we're talking 0:01:37.800 --> 0:01:42.840 about are potential tells whether or not whether that you 0:01:42.840 --> 0:01:47.840 can recognize a lie. And people often associate blinking, scratching 0:01:47.840 --> 0:01:53.120 the face, covering the mouth as uh, surefire indicators. And 0:01:53.160 --> 0:01:55.559 that's not necessarily the cases. No, it's not. And let's 0:01:55.560 --> 0:01:58.880 just get that out right now. Um. It's because there 0:01:58.920 --> 0:02:02.480 aren't any sure fire behaviors where you're like, oh, you're lying, 0:02:02.520 --> 0:02:04.920 Like the one I always heard was touching your touching 0:02:04.920 --> 0:02:10.320 your face, right, that's it's based on the idea that 0:02:10.480 --> 0:02:13.320 somebody might do that if they don't normally do that, 0:02:14.200 --> 0:02:19.160 or if before this whole conversation started and a lie, Uh, 0:02:19.200 --> 0:02:21.560 they're placed in a position where they're lying, where they're 0:02:21.600 --> 0:02:24.880 choosing to lie, and they start doing that, they are 0:02:24.919 --> 0:02:27.480 now deviating from their baseline behavior. And that's what the 0:02:27.520 --> 0:02:31.320 important thing is exactly. That's where you add the qualifier necessarily. 0:02:31.720 --> 0:02:35.080 Like Tom said, like maybe the dude has an eyelash 0:02:35.120 --> 0:02:38.240 in his eye, Jason, he's rubbing his eyes or blinking 0:02:38.280 --> 0:02:43.880 a lot, So yeah, it's interesting. Yeah, that's why he's 0:02:43.880 --> 0:02:48.240 scratching his face um orca. Or maybe someone's self conscious 0:02:48.240 --> 0:02:50.480 because of a missing front tooth, so they cover their 0:02:50.520 --> 0:02:54.400 mouth when they talk. I cover my mouth when I talk, um, 0:02:54.560 --> 0:02:57.800 especially when I'm eating. Oh yeah, sure, but you're just 0:02:57.840 --> 0:03:00.000 not supposed to talk while you eat. Yeah, Emily does 0:03:00.080 --> 0:03:03.840 that because she can't stop talking ever, so she'll just 0:03:03.880 --> 0:03:06.720 talk while she eats and cover her mouth. So I'm 0:03:06.760 --> 0:03:08.840 not even gonna bother to ask you if you've ever lied? 0:03:09.520 --> 0:03:13.720 I've lied today? Have you some of you? I'm sure? 0:03:14.120 --> 0:03:18.680 Apparently according to studies I have. Um, you found a 0:03:18.680 --> 0:03:22.200 few studies that I've I've thought were a little let's 0:03:22.200 --> 0:03:25.080 get into them, okay, I mean, so they're surprising. Like 0:03:25.120 --> 0:03:28.560 one of them found that a quarter of of all 0:03:28.600 --> 0:03:35.040 of our daily interactions involved lies. That's really high. I like, 0:03:35.120 --> 0:03:38.200 I really, I don't think like I'm naive. I I 0:03:38.240 --> 0:03:40.560 went back and just kind of like evaluated my behavior. 0:03:40.600 --> 0:03:45.440 I'm like, it still seems high. Agreed, So, uh, who 0:03:45.920 --> 0:03:48.560 does everyone else lying more than us? Are these just 0:03:48.640 --> 0:03:53.360 a really rotten people. I don't know that happened to 0:03:53.360 --> 0:03:56.040 be part of this random sample in the study. Well, 0:03:56.080 --> 0:03:58.160 and you know, you pull up any study online and 0:03:58.160 --> 0:04:00.840 you're going to find a different result, Like people are 0:04:00.880 --> 0:04:03.320 every ninety minutes, people are every ninety seconds, she lied 0:04:03.320 --> 0:04:06.120 twice a day, that kind of thing. Yeah, so, um 0:04:06.840 --> 0:04:09.960 Phi psychologist failing miserably at studying lying is what you're 0:04:10.000 --> 0:04:12.880 saying as far as coming up with hard because I 0:04:12.920 --> 0:04:15.120 don't think there are any hard and fast rules. I 0:04:15.200 --> 0:04:17.040 might not lie at all today, or I might like 0:04:17.120 --> 0:04:19.360 ten times tomorrow. If you don't lie at all to day, 0:04:19.360 --> 0:04:22.599 they'll make a movie about you. Don't They make movies 0:04:22.680 --> 0:04:28.719 like that. You either can't lie Jim Carrey's case or yeah, 0:04:28.760 --> 0:04:33.120 that's usually the plot. Yeah. So so I guess before 0:04:33.120 --> 0:04:34.520 we get into the studies, do you want to talk 0:04:34.520 --> 0:04:37.240 about what is a lie? Yeah? You dug this up. 0:04:37.320 --> 0:04:41.000 I like these definitions. So there's this philosopher named Cecelia 0:04:41.120 --> 0:04:44.239 Bach who is a Swedish philosopher who published a book 0:04:44.320 --> 0:04:47.000 in the nine that apparently still to this day it's 0:04:47.040 --> 0:04:52.440 like the the authority um lying and philosophically speaking. The 0:04:52.839 --> 0:04:55.440 work in the seventies in psychology. I think they were 0:04:55.440 --> 0:04:58.080 smoking a lot of weed, that's what it was. Um. Yeah, 0:04:58.080 --> 0:05:01.600 and she's a philosopher. Um, so this is the philosophical 0:05:01.720 --> 0:05:05.560 ethical approach to lying. And so cecili Bach came up 0:05:05.600 --> 0:05:09.120 with basically a definition of a lie, and she said 0:05:09.160 --> 0:05:14.839 that it has three features, Um, that it communicates some information. Now, 0:05:15.480 --> 0:05:19.440 philosophers tend to choose their words carefully. They're like almost 0:05:19.440 --> 0:05:24.000 the poets of the humanities, especially if you don't include 0:05:24.000 --> 0:05:28.080 poetry as a humanity. Um. The liar intends to deceive 0:05:28.160 --> 0:05:31.080 or mislead, of course, and the liar believes that what 0:05:31.120 --> 0:05:34.360 they're saying is not true. So they haven't tricked themselves 0:05:34.440 --> 0:05:39.599 into believing, uh that they like O. J believes that 0:05:39.640 --> 0:05:42.719 he did not kill his wife. Yeah. I don't know. 0:05:42.839 --> 0:05:46.320 I think that's a different conversation altogether, because that begs 0:05:46.320 --> 0:05:49.719 the question is it really possible to fully trick yourself 0:05:49.720 --> 0:05:52.599 into believing something you know is not true is true? 0:05:54.080 --> 0:05:56.480 You always hear that that can happen, Like you become 0:05:56.760 --> 0:06:00.760 so um entrenched in that lie for so long that 0:06:00.839 --> 0:06:03.400 you don't even realize it's a lie anymore. I'd like 0:06:03.520 --> 0:06:06.039 to see the study on that, though, yeah, I'm sure 0:06:06.040 --> 0:06:08.520 somebody's got one out here. But so those three you 0:06:08.520 --> 0:06:12.120 put those three things together, and um, you have a lie. 0:06:12.400 --> 0:06:17.320 You're communicating information, right, yeah, Um, you're you're intend to 0:06:17.360 --> 0:06:19.559 deceive and you don't believe what you're saying is true. 0:06:19.640 --> 0:06:21.919 And I'll apologies to O J. By the way, that 0:06:22.040 --> 0:06:25.000 was really uncalled for. Yeah, really sorry, that was very 0:06:25.080 --> 0:06:31.159 uncalled for, Chuck, Shame on you for UM. So there's 0:06:31.200 --> 0:06:34.920 a big debate though about whether or not, um, the 0:06:35.000 --> 0:06:38.120 lie has to have false information to it. Yeah, that's 0:06:38.120 --> 0:06:40.560 what I don't quite understand. Can you explain that? Yes? 0:06:40.720 --> 0:06:45.560 So example, UM, I I like your shirt, and I 0:06:45.640 --> 0:06:49.800 know that you hate shirts that have armpit stains on them. 0:06:50.440 --> 0:06:53.479 But I know at that at the present time you 0:06:53.800 --> 0:06:56.400 also have a pinch nerve in your neck so you 0:06:56.440 --> 0:07:00.440 can't see very clearly. Okay, So I want your shirt. 0:07:00.520 --> 0:07:01.800 I know you'll give it to me if I tell 0:07:01.839 --> 0:07:04.200 you there's an armpit stain. I don't think there's an 0:07:04.240 --> 0:07:06.240 armpit stain. I don't believe what I'm saying is true. 0:07:06.240 --> 0:07:08.400 But I say, Chuck that that modest master it is 0:07:08.400 --> 0:07:10.560 an armpit stain. You should probably give it to me, 0:07:10.800 --> 0:07:12.400 and you take it off and give it to me, 0:07:13.280 --> 0:07:16.240 and the shirt actually has an armpit stain. And someone 0:07:16.320 --> 0:07:19.560 pops their head and goes, want, want Want. That was 0:07:19.640 --> 0:07:23.440 not false information. Even though I intended to deceive you. 0:07:23.600 --> 0:07:25.760 I didn't believe what I was saying. I was just 0:07:25.800 --> 0:07:29.440 communicating information. That's the that's the point. But that brings 0:07:29.480 --> 0:07:33.200 up another philosophical question, like, is a lie of omission 0:07:33.240 --> 0:07:37.640 then a lie because you're not communicating anything. In Tom's 0:07:37.680 --> 0:07:40.760 article they talk about um, the reason the U. S. 0:07:40.760 --> 0:07:43.200 Court system say the whole truth and nothing but the 0:07:43.240 --> 0:07:47.720 truth is because a lie of omission sometimes is not 0:07:47.880 --> 0:07:51.480 as UH look down upon, because you're not actually constructing 0:07:51.520 --> 0:07:57.880 some falsehead. You're just not telling the whole truth. Interesting. Yeah, 0:07:58.560 --> 0:08:01.560 a lot of the version of the yeah, you know, sure, 0:08:01.720 --> 0:08:04.520 I think. I think ultimately you can follow. The conclusion 0:08:04.600 --> 0:08:08.600 is that most philosophers believe that lying is bad, but 0:08:08.720 --> 0:08:11.640 that there are exceptions to the rule. Like if a 0:08:11.720 --> 0:08:14.520 murderer comes up and says, hey, I'm looking for my 0:08:14.600 --> 0:08:17.480 next victim. Have you seen this man and you have 0:08:17.600 --> 0:08:20.640 seen this man and you know where he is, then 0:08:20.800 --> 0:08:24.760 I'm making this really basic gets But that's a that's 0:08:24.800 --> 0:08:27.440 a that's an example of when a lie is beneficial. 0:08:27.520 --> 0:08:30.240 You're thwarting a murderer and saving somebody's life. Yes, you 0:08:30.240 --> 0:08:33.760 should lie, or obviously a white lie, which kids learned 0:08:33.800 --> 0:08:37.760 early on, um, is something you do oftentimes to spare 0:08:38.320 --> 0:08:43.160 the feelings of someone else. That that top does not 0:08:43.280 --> 0:08:46.640 make you look bad. I think it's cut, just just fun. Sure, 0:08:47.360 --> 0:08:48.920 but maybe you should wear that other one because you 0:08:48.920 --> 0:08:53.360 look great and black. Well you, I imagine if you're 0:08:53.400 --> 0:08:55.600 dealing with an intelligent person, you've showing your hand at 0:08:55.640 --> 0:09:00.319 that point. Not necessarily. Yeah, um, but you did mention kids, 0:09:00.480 --> 0:09:06.240 you mentioned white lies. Yeah, so you found a study. Supposedly, 0:09:06.280 --> 0:09:09.960 according to Tom, around age two or three, we realized 0:09:10.040 --> 0:09:17.559 that we're not being constantly supervised, that reality exists outside 0:09:17.600 --> 0:09:20.880 of other people's view. Our reality sometimes does. When we 0:09:20.880 --> 0:09:22.880 go into another room or Mom's in the other room, 0:09:22.920 --> 0:09:26.160 I'm still here playing yes, and it comes becomes clear 0:09:26.200 --> 0:09:31.120 to us that we are responsible for conveying that information. 0:09:31.559 --> 0:09:34.640 But we have a choice e g. Free will that 0:09:34.720 --> 0:09:37.680 allows us to decide whether that we convey that information 0:09:37.840 --> 0:09:42.520 truthfully or dishonestly. Right. Yeah, and then after that it 0:09:42.600 --> 0:09:46.280 just takes off like a rocket. Yeah, this one study, Um, 0:09:46.440 --> 0:09:49.320 found that nine and ten of the kids that they 0:09:49.360 --> 0:09:52.760 spied on, and this is just this is just cruel. 0:09:52.760 --> 0:09:55.199 They put kids in a room with like a stuffed 0:09:55.240 --> 0:09:58.760 animal or they called it a soft toy, which was 0:09:58.760 --> 0:10:02.640 a little creepy um behind them, and said don't look 0:10:02.679 --> 0:10:05.000 at that behind you, and they would leave the room 0:10:05.000 --> 0:10:07.040 in videotape them, and of course nine out of ten 0:10:07.160 --> 0:10:10.120 kids turned around looked at it. And then did I 0:10:10.120 --> 0:10:15.480 actually say how many of them lied? Um, I don't 0:10:15.480 --> 0:10:16.920 even see that. I guess they were just told not 0:10:16.960 --> 0:10:18.880 to look at it. And I don't know if that's 0:10:18.880 --> 0:10:21.720 a lie. You know, that's a little lanky. It's not 0:10:21.840 --> 0:10:24.160 following orders, it's disobeying all right, Well, how about this? 0:10:24.200 --> 0:10:26.120 The second part of that study was older kids. They 0:10:26.120 --> 0:10:27.839 would give them a test with the answers on the 0:10:27.880 --> 0:10:29.439 back and tell them not to look at the answers, 0:10:30.080 --> 0:10:32.960 give them a fake answer, and when they were asked 0:10:32.960 --> 0:10:34.640 to explain the fake answer, they would make up a 0:10:34.679 --> 0:10:36.679 lie like, oh I learned that in history class, right, 0:10:36.679 --> 0:10:40.240 And actually they the question was who discovered Tunisia? That's 0:10:40.280 --> 0:10:43.040 one of them and the on the back the answer 0:10:43.360 --> 0:10:48.320 um was a fake answer. Presidious Aikman and so some 0:10:48.800 --> 0:10:51.760 the dumb kids from Star Wars who cheated said it 0:10:51.800 --> 0:10:55.160 does doesn't. Um, the dumb kids who cheated put that 0:10:55.200 --> 0:10:58.960 down and uh. But then Wayne, given the opportunity to 0:10:58.960 --> 0:11:02.240 fest up with them lied. What I just disagree with 0:11:02.280 --> 0:11:05.240 about this study was that, um, it said that the 0:11:05.400 --> 0:11:09.079 smartest kids told the best lies. How do you qualify that? 0:11:09.240 --> 0:11:13.080 What a you know, the best lies? Uh? If it's 0:11:13.120 --> 0:11:16.480 believable and conveyed in a way that's uh. But that's 0:11:16.480 --> 0:11:22.400 all subjective with confidence, totally subjective. It's methodologically unsound. But 0:11:22.520 --> 0:11:24.560 the whole point of these studies was they believe that 0:11:24.679 --> 0:11:29.920 children who are able to lie, um, have faster developing brains, 0:11:31.640 --> 0:11:35.400 especially the areas involved in executive functioning. So they believe, 0:11:35.600 --> 0:11:39.199 they concur that a child who lies early on might 0:11:39.240 --> 0:11:41.839 be more successful later in life. Yeah. Well, I mean 0:11:42.080 --> 0:11:45.600 you can make a case that lying is um, basically 0:11:45.679 --> 0:11:50.440 using your imagination. Yeah, especially when you're a child. And 0:11:50.480 --> 0:11:53.720 they they have other studies that support the fact that 0:11:53.840 --> 0:11:58.120 rich people are more prone to lie and manipulate. So 0:11:59.240 --> 0:12:01.080 rich people are more trying to do a lot of 0:12:01.120 --> 0:12:05.200 shady stuff. You think, well, yeah, that's how a lot 0:12:05.240 --> 0:12:12.480 of them get rich. Huh. Yeah, m hmm, chuck um. 0:12:12.640 --> 0:12:16.320 You want to talk about why people tell lies, like 0:12:16.400 --> 0:12:20.240 some of the great categories of lies, the Big six. 0:12:21.160 --> 0:12:24.440 So what you call it? Sure? Number one, Josh, is 0:12:24.480 --> 0:12:27.880 to conceal a misdeed instead of trouble. And even at 0:12:27.880 --> 0:12:30.520 the advanced stage of forty one, this is the reason 0:12:30.600 --> 0:12:33.960 I will most often lie because I hate being in 0:12:34.000 --> 0:12:38.760 trouble and I will try and cover for myself. Uh sometimes, 0:12:39.760 --> 0:12:42.600 even though in the end and in the long run, 0:12:43.280 --> 0:12:46.560 it's better to tell the truth, agreed. The the short term, 0:12:46.559 --> 0:12:48.400 you might get away with something, but you're not doing 0:12:48.400 --> 0:12:52.360 yourself any favors. I call these lies of cowardice, thank you. 0:12:53.360 --> 0:12:56.360 It's basically it sucks. I mean, it's that you're you're 0:12:56.440 --> 0:13:01.600 having to like go through this terrible, uncomfortable, you know, 0:13:01.760 --> 0:13:06.000 moment or whatever it is. But I'm really glad Tom 0:13:06.040 --> 0:13:08.400 pointed out at least in the short term you might 0:13:08.400 --> 0:13:10.600 not gain an advantage, but overall, like there is a 0:13:10.600 --> 0:13:14.360 positive outcome. You're building trust by fessing out or whatever 0:13:14.600 --> 0:13:18.920 you know. Number two to preserve a reputation. Um and 0:13:18.960 --> 0:13:22.360 the example time uses a drug a drug addict recovering 0:13:22.400 --> 0:13:25.560 drug addict who might lie about having gone to rehab 0:13:25.679 --> 0:13:31.200 or something like that, or to like a perspective romantic partner. Yeah, 0:13:31.679 --> 0:13:33.840 and I think that these are kind of understandable to 0:13:33.920 --> 0:13:37.880 an extent. It's it's like, you know, we have walls up. Yeah, 0:13:38.320 --> 0:13:40.920 you know, you know if you're if you're just a 0:13:40.960 --> 0:13:43.320 normal person, you don't walk down the street like, hey, Josh, 0:13:43.400 --> 0:13:45.960 get to meet you. I spent some time in rehably, 0:13:46.040 --> 0:13:47.880 like there's just a certain amount and then once you 0:13:47.920 --> 0:13:50.240 get to that point, well then maybe you are kind 0:13:50.240 --> 0:13:53.920 of short shrifting somebody who's who you consider close to 0:13:54.720 --> 0:13:57.280 um if you're not telling them that. But as you 0:13:57.320 --> 0:14:02.240 gain trust, then you open up more and you should um. 0:14:02.360 --> 0:14:04.680 Number three this one, of course, we all get the 0:14:04.679 --> 0:14:07.520 white lie to avoid hurting someone's feelings. We already kind 0:14:07.520 --> 0:14:13.520 of covered that. Number four. To increase stature or reputation. Yeah, 0:14:13.520 --> 0:14:15.800 these are just the boastful people. They're like, yeah, I 0:14:16.520 --> 0:14:19.120 scored forty two in uh in a high school basketball 0:14:19.120 --> 0:14:22.520 game one time and one county and track and you're like, 0:14:22.800 --> 0:14:25.080 you do some investigation and you realize they weren't even 0:14:25.080 --> 0:14:27.600 on the track team, right, And I've realized that, like 0:14:27.680 --> 0:14:29.600 when you notice when you have a lot of these 0:14:29.640 --> 0:14:33.280 people in your life, like there usually it's time to 0:14:33.320 --> 0:14:35.680 get introspective because there's something wrong with the way that 0:14:35.720 --> 0:14:39.720 you're living. If you have people like this, yeah, orbiting 0:14:39.760 --> 0:14:42.800 you a lot. Those people wear me out, they really do. 0:14:43.080 --> 0:14:45.040 I've done a pretty good job with shaking you know, 0:14:45.120 --> 0:14:47.200 everybody like that off. I don't. I can't think of 0:14:47.240 --> 0:14:50.240 anybody in my life like even acquaintance wise, and it's 0:14:50.320 --> 0:14:53.240 like that just makes up lies about themselves, agreed. And 0:14:53.280 --> 0:14:55.720 I have known people like that. They don't stick around. No, 0:14:56.120 --> 0:14:58.480 especially once you get out of what you're like mid 0:14:58.560 --> 0:15:02.200 twenties is like that edge of what you know where 0:15:02.960 --> 0:15:05.200 you should be interacting with those people still well. And 0:15:05.240 --> 0:15:08.360 I think that's sort of a an immaturity thing to 0:15:08.800 --> 0:15:10.680 like if you're still doing that when you as you 0:15:10.720 --> 0:15:13.640 grow older, then you've got some serious problems. But everyone 0:15:13.680 --> 0:15:16.800 when they're younger probably stretches the truth about things they've done. Sure, 0:15:16.840 --> 0:15:19.000 but even still don't you remember, like it's just kind 0:15:19.000 --> 0:15:22.280 of being uncomfortable when somebody was doing this, and everyone 0:15:22.320 --> 0:15:24.960 in this group that they're talking to is like, we 0:15:25.000 --> 0:15:28.240 know you're lying, Like this is just please stop. This 0:15:28.280 --> 0:15:30.480 is you might as well be putting bamboo shoots under 0:15:30.520 --> 0:15:34.640 a fingernail number five to manipulate. And this is probably 0:15:34.840 --> 0:15:37.400 something like I said, the rich people are more prone 0:15:37.480 --> 0:15:41.200 to lie. Um, this is an evasive or defensive it's 0:15:41.240 --> 0:15:45.720 to gain something for yourself. It's pretty pretty it's the 0:15:45.760 --> 0:15:49.120 most vicious type of lying, probably because it also can 0:15:49.200 --> 0:15:52.280 involve telling lies about other people right to get ahead. 0:15:52.840 --> 0:15:57.640 That's all destroy someone else's reputation. Man, those people, there's 0:15:57.680 --> 0:16:01.360 a special place in Dante circle for you. Agreed. Now, 0:16:01.400 --> 0:16:04.280 those people you start to run into more of, especially 0:16:04.360 --> 0:16:06.880 as you inter the corporate world. And you know what, 0:16:06.920 --> 0:16:08.440 they may be the same people who were telling the 0:16:08.520 --> 0:16:11.760 other lives when they were younger. You know what I'm saying, 0:16:12.040 --> 0:16:16.520 They just evolved into to be manipulators. And the last one, Josh, 0:16:16.680 --> 0:16:20.160 is to control information. Um. And this is what we 0:16:20.320 --> 0:16:23.960 mentioned about indirect lying or like withholding parts of the 0:16:24.040 --> 0:16:28.160 truth a liable mission. Yeah, which I'm more able to 0:16:28.200 --> 0:16:33.440 forgive something like that. Um. So that's as you called it, 0:16:33.920 --> 0:16:38.000 the Big six. Huh, the Big six, um, Chuck. Kind 0:16:38.000 --> 0:16:39.720 Of one of the running themes that we've had here 0:16:39.760 --> 0:16:42.560 is that everybody lies. I don't think that we've Yeah, 0:16:42.600 --> 0:16:46.920 you said it, explicitly. Every the Dalai Lama doesn't lie. 0:16:48.120 --> 0:16:50.360 I don't know. I could see him wanting to preserve 0:16:50.400 --> 0:16:53.320 harmony or balance or something like that at a diplomatic 0:16:53.360 --> 0:16:57.360 dinner or something, or with one of his followers feelings 0:16:57.360 --> 0:17:00.560 about like, yes, that is a really nice sand mandala. 0:17:01.280 --> 0:17:03.040 Sure you know. Yeah, he's sent putting a lot of 0:17:03.120 --> 0:17:08.639 high pressure social situations. So at the very least everyone 0:17:08.680 --> 0:17:13.080 has little white lies, I imagine, like right, Um, but 0:17:13.160 --> 0:17:16.720 there are some types of personalities that are much more 0:17:16.800 --> 0:17:23.639 prone to lying, um the big five. Yes, like pathological liars. Yes, 0:17:23.800 --> 0:17:27.000 they are the worst of the worst because they are 0:17:27.200 --> 0:17:33.879 sociopathic and they don't understand right and wrong. Um, and 0:17:33.920 --> 0:17:36.640 they have they're probably really good liars because they don't 0:17:36.720 --> 0:17:39.080 understand right or wrong, because they're not gonna have the 0:17:39.080 --> 0:17:44.160 stresses associated with guilt in line bad people. Yeah, their 0:17:44.160 --> 0:17:46.640 consciences don't put them through their paces when they're lying, 0:17:46.680 --> 0:17:51.240 because they lack in whole or in part consciences compared 0:17:51.320 --> 0:17:56.280 to non sociopathic people. Right. Uh. Number two. I've known 0:17:56.400 --> 0:17:59.320 one of these people, a compulsive liar, and I really 0:17:59.359 --> 0:18:02.600 felt bad for him because they almost seem like they 0:18:02.600 --> 0:18:05.440 can't help it. Yeah, and you would think a pathological 0:18:05.480 --> 0:18:07.720 liar and a compulsive liar one and the same. Not 0:18:08.200 --> 0:18:14.879 no compulsive liar UM. Pathological liar lies um as a strategy. 0:18:15.119 --> 0:18:21.280 It's a means of gaining advantage. UM. A compulsive liar 0:18:22.160 --> 0:18:25.320 like can't help it, like they have their brain has 0:18:25.320 --> 0:18:28.840 been trained to lie as a first resort, even if 0:18:28.880 --> 0:18:33.000 they're not, if there's no gain whatsoever in line, they 0:18:33.040 --> 0:18:35.960 they will still just generally lie. It's the first thing. 0:18:36.040 --> 0:18:38.840 It's their gut reaction. It's Uh, this guy knew. It 0:18:38.960 --> 0:18:42.320 was really clear that he lied as a first option, 0:18:42.960 --> 0:18:45.480 as his go to when he didn't need to. And 0:18:45.520 --> 0:18:48.119 it was so frustrating. And I had a sort of 0:18:48.119 --> 0:18:51.879 a big brotherly relationship to this guy, so it wasn't 0:18:51.920 --> 0:18:54.400 he wasn't a peer, so I tried to help him 0:18:54.640 --> 0:18:57.960 through that. But UM, I haven't talked to him a 0:18:57.960 --> 0:18:59.199 long time. I don't know if it worked. So you 0:18:59.240 --> 0:19:03.679 abandoned him faith that them um and one of the 0:19:03.920 --> 0:19:06.120 and this of course makes sense in his case too, 0:19:06.160 --> 0:19:09.879 without getting specific, but said that living in an abusive environment, 0:19:10.280 --> 0:19:14.080 relying as necessary to self preservation might be where that 0:19:14.119 --> 0:19:16.600 stems from. And I think that was the case for him. Yeah, 0:19:16.600 --> 0:19:20.200 it's like the brain has been trained to um lie, 0:19:20.640 --> 0:19:24.000 like this is what you do. It's But the good 0:19:24.000 --> 0:19:26.879 thing is if you run across somebody in your life 0:19:26.880 --> 0:19:29.320 who cares enough about you, they can be trained out 0:19:29.359 --> 0:19:32.040 of you, I imagine, although I'm sure it's a painful 0:19:32.080 --> 0:19:36.800 process for both people. Yeah, it's probably are you're really 0:19:36.800 --> 0:19:41.720 waiting for me to say. People culty programming UM. Narcissists 0:19:42.000 --> 0:19:45.040 of course will lie. These are the people who um 0:19:45.240 --> 0:19:49.400 lie to increase stature and reputation, but they do themselves 0:19:49.440 --> 0:19:53.760 no favors. Borderline personalities. I thought this one was kind 0:19:53.800 --> 0:19:56.960 of interesting. They will go through wild mood swings and 0:19:57.040 --> 0:20:00.520 engage in really risky behavior, but then they come back 0:20:00.560 --> 0:20:04.359 down to normalcy and they're like, oh, um, I just 0:20:04.480 --> 0:20:07.320 gambled away our savings count and then they'll lie to 0:20:07.359 --> 0:20:11.439 cover those up, right. Uh. And then histrionic personalities, Uh, 0:20:11.560 --> 0:20:14.560 these are people if you have like a true histrionic 0:20:14.560 --> 0:20:19.919 personality disorder, you are attention seeking, excessively needy uh for 0:20:19.960 --> 0:20:24.960 approval and emotional um. Apparently women are more prone to 0:20:25.000 --> 0:20:28.919 be histrionic by ratio four to one. Oh is there 0:20:29.000 --> 0:20:30.480 right what they say? Or at least I have the 0:20:30.560 --> 0:20:35.440 disorder and you can, um, these are people desperate for attention, 0:20:35.480 --> 0:20:37.440 like if you leave, if you walk out the door, 0:20:37.480 --> 0:20:40.240 and to kill myself. That was a great example time used. 0:20:40.600 --> 0:20:42.919 Yeah that's a lie, you mean. I were on this 0:20:42.960 --> 0:20:45.440 air tram flight once in this UM we were waiting 0:20:45.480 --> 0:20:49.439 to take off and this caterer was backing off of 0:20:49.480 --> 0:20:52.160 the little his little sky ramp who was backing away 0:20:52.160 --> 0:20:56.639 from the other door, the catering door UM, and apparently 0:20:56.640 --> 0:20:58.359 it was still hooked a part of it or whatever. 0:20:58.400 --> 0:21:00.639 The SHEI was like, no, no, don't do and he 0:21:00.760 --> 0:21:03.200 kept going and she turned around, was like, well, we're 0:21:03.200 --> 0:21:05.679 not going anywhere for a while. And the way she 0:21:05.720 --> 0:21:08.800 said it, you could tell we were we were discussing this, 0:21:08.920 --> 0:21:11.160 like neither one of us believed her. We just knew 0:21:11.200 --> 0:21:14.480 she was wrong because just she's threw it out there like, 0:21:14.480 --> 0:21:16.600 well we're not going anywhere for a while, like and 0:21:16.640 --> 0:21:19.040 of course, like everything was fine within like fifteen minutes, 0:21:19.440 --> 0:21:21.080 but the way she sounded, it was gonna be like 0:21:21.280 --> 0:21:24.240 stuck on a tarmic for three hours. And it was weird. 0:21:24.280 --> 0:21:28.280 Were afforded this glimpse into this woman's true personality, and 0:21:28.520 --> 0:21:32.320 I wouldn't have hung out with histrionic. She was a 0:21:32.320 --> 0:21:35.560 bit histrionic and that was probably low level you could tell, 0:21:37.960 --> 0:21:41.080 all right, so stay away from her. How can you 0:21:41.119 --> 0:21:44.280 tell if someone's lying. We've talked about micro expressions, yeah, 0:21:45.280 --> 0:21:49.600 and the micro expression. Yeah, it was like three years ago. 0:21:50.680 --> 0:21:54.400 Uh yeah, yeah, it has been well. Basically, the for 0:21:54.480 --> 0:21:57.200 those people who don't know that, we have a good 0:21:57.640 --> 0:22:01.680 hundred and thirty hundred and fifty at the sisodes still 0:22:01.960 --> 0:22:05.920 not on iTunes, not um we the episode we did 0:22:05.920 --> 0:22:11.800 on micro expressions. Basically, a micro expression is an uncontrollable fleeting, 0:22:11.880 --> 0:22:17.240 like millisecond long facial expression that is linked to your 0:22:17.280 --> 0:22:19.840 true feelings. That was longer than a millisecond. I just 0:22:19.880 --> 0:22:22.399 made a quick frowny face. That was a grim was it? 0:22:22.680 --> 0:22:25.720 You look like? Megan m ram I don't know this 0:22:25.880 --> 0:22:30.840 is on Twitter girling like that. It's hilarious. Um anyway, Uh, 0:22:31.680 --> 0:22:34.080 it's it's a you can't control it. It's linked to 0:22:34.119 --> 0:22:38.679 your true feelings, and people have been shown to be 0:22:38.720 --> 0:22:42.160 able to pick up on these without even consciously knowing it. 0:22:42.720 --> 0:22:44.959 You just get what we would call a gut feeling 0:22:45.040 --> 0:22:50.400 about somebody because their smile and that sudden fleeting micro 0:22:50.480 --> 0:22:54.720 expression of like contempt back into a smile that you 0:22:54.880 --> 0:22:59.040 didn't really see, but you're caught, don't add up, and 0:22:59.119 --> 0:23:01.200 your body is like, why am I having a weird 0:23:01.240 --> 0:23:03.960 reaction to this person? So that's a micro expression, and 0:23:03.960 --> 0:23:08.800 they're they're apparently linked to lies and lying. So basically, 0:23:08.800 --> 0:23:11.280 if you have a gut feeling that somebody's lying, you 0:23:11.359 --> 0:23:13.320 might be onto something. Yes, and it might be because 0:23:13.359 --> 0:23:16.640 of a micro expression that you saw. Interesting. You know this, 0:23:17.119 --> 0:23:19.280 I know, but I still find it interesting. Okay, I'm 0:23:19.280 --> 0:23:21.919 not lying. That's your new thing? Interesting? Did you know 0:23:21.960 --> 0:23:24.800 that that I said that? Um, I've been on that 0:23:24.880 --> 0:23:31.920 for a while. Yeah, if I ramped it up lately. Interesting. Uh. 0:23:31.960 --> 0:23:34.679 These are non verbal cues, by the way, micro expressions. 0:23:34.720 --> 0:23:37.480