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Speaker 1: What uh dangerous con man? My this fucking dude. Will

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Speaker 1: James Guest happy? How are you.

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Speaker 2: Wonderful? Good? Yeah, thriving ready for learning more about park animas.

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Speaker 1: Very happy to hear that, James, I, you know, speaking

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Speaker 1: of enemas?

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Speaker 3: What why? Why?

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Speaker 4: Did?

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Speaker 2: What is it about animas?

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Speaker 3: Why?

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Speaker 1: Why are some people fucking obsessed with this? Is like

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Speaker 1: the key to all health?

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Speaker 2: Does seem to have a captivating power of the human spirit,

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Speaker 2: doesn't it? The enema? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a kind of person Inema guys and anima

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Speaker 1: girls who are just like obsessed with fucking animas? Is

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Speaker 1: the answer to all health problems?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's I don't know, it's it's it's a lasting

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Speaker 2: thread throughout human history. Someone should do a PhD on it. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think it may have something to do with the

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Speaker 1: fact that it's like an intense experience that I met you. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: create it's like powerful physical sensations, and some people just

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Speaker 1: flip out over it. I don't know, Yeah, and it

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Speaker 1: seems thankful to their life.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, in a way that it's not if you

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Speaker 2: inject park water into your colon.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you gotta, like, I don't know, like there are

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Speaker 1: like obviously. Sometimes enemas are a useful tool for healthcare

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Speaker 1: people to give. Sometimes people need edemas. But it should

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Speaker 1: never be like a regular part of your day to day, right, No,

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Speaker 1: it shouldn't be.

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Speaker 2: Just like giving yourself enemas for fun. Yes, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: under medical supervision only. I think it's my starts on enemas. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: they look at us, Enema cops, both of us. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: NIMA cops. That's that's my job. I'm going to make

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Speaker 2: sure people's assholes are nice and dry. I've broken with

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Speaker 2: the anarchis obis, and I'll be becoming one of those

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Speaker 2: really annoying stalinists on Twitter.

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Speaker 1: You're an asshole authority. Well, you know who's not an

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Speaker 1: asshole authoritarian is wim Hoff. But he thinks, you know,

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Speaker 1: if you live in a state with public health care,

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Speaker 1: you should just cut your guts to ribbons with a

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Speaker 1: sprinkler head. And you know your fellow citizens can pay

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Speaker 1: for that because you're a drifter who abandoned your family

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Speaker 1: for a decade.

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Speaker 2: That's what socialism does to him, to a motherfucker, Yeah, yep,

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Speaker 2: every time. Can't not do it happened everywhere, So.

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Speaker 1: James, when we left Whim. He had just shattered his

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Speaker 1: guts by taking a public enema from a water fountain

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Speaker 1: to avoid acknowledging that he'd abandon his family. That said,

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Speaker 1: he does eventually come back to the picture. His book

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Speaker 1: The Way of the Iceman gives us very little detail

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Speaker 1: on the long gap between oleah suicide and his rise

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Speaker 1: to prominence right after Later, Wim remarried and had another son.

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Speaker 1: We just get this line.

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Speaker 2: The children grew up and Hoff looked for more challenges. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: they grew up more or less without you, buddy. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: helik for challenges. It did not include parenting, are you Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Not a challenge you was that interested in. So at

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Speaker 2: this point his story jumps ahead to the mid aughts.

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Speaker 2: There are not any particularly good or objective sources about

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Speaker 2: the reality of his life in this period, so we're

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Speaker 2: gonna have to rely on some bad ones. I found

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Speaker 2: an article with irishnews dot com that features heavily an

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Speaker 2: interview with Laura Hoff. Now today, Laura is involved in

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Speaker 2: her father's business in her fire, so not an unbiased

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Speaker 2: source without a financial interest in how Wim is seen,

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Speaker 2: and her interview does not acknowledge some of the unpleasant

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Speaker 2: stories that Scott talks about. But I think her claims

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Speaker 2: about what it was like being raised by Wim are

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Speaker 2: still worthy of analysis, because, at the very least, if

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Speaker 2: this is not accurate to reality, it does show how

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Speaker 2: his kids, who are affiliated with his business, think it

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Speaker 2: is advantageous for their to be seen. Right yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: sure if this is not an accurate recitation of reality,

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Speaker 2: and we do not objectively know what happened with women

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Speaker 2: as kids, right yeah yeah. Quote On a cold winters

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Speaker 2: day in Amsterdam many years ago, while other parents were

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Speaker 2: wrapped up warm to collect their kids from school, Laura

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Speaker 2: Hawf recalls her dad turning up in a T shirt,

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Speaker 2: shorts and sandals and then doing a bit of yoga

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Speaker 2: in the school yard. I think I was raised by

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Speaker 2: a very special man, which I only understood later, says

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Speaker 2: Laura thirty six, agreeing the childhood that she shared with

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Speaker 2: her three siblings was absolutely different than that of her friends.

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Speaker 2: We always used to play outside if it was cold,

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Speaker 2: it didn't really matter. The weather man never dictated what

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Speaker 2: we needed to wear. Now that could be also go

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Speaker 2: with whims, basically abandoning them to a squat the fact

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Speaker 2: that like no one was there to make sure they

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Speaker 2: were dressed brock so we did call clothes.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so we didn't have any clothes. Laura gives us

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Speaker 1: little detail on what Whim's life was like after Oleah's

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Speaker 1: suicide and his event return to his family, which she,

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Speaker 1: of course has no obligation to do, but it does

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Speaker 1: mean that this next period of his life is a

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Speaker 1: bit of a black box when it comes to hard facts.

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Speaker 1: This is as much as she says about being raised

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Speaker 1: by Wim. We were very free. I don't think there

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Speaker 1: were any rules. Sometimes you would think, okay, kids need

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Speaker 1: some rules. But it was also the best time in

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Speaker 1: my life. My father used to play more than we did,

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Speaker 1: so he always wanted to go outside with us and

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Speaker 1: that was great.

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Speaker 2: So I don't know. That's another version of the story

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Speaker 2: believe what you want, rather juxtaposed. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: So.

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Speaker 1: Wim claims that after his wife's suicide and returned to

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Speaker 1: his return to his family, he traveled around the world

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Speaker 1: doing what a normal person would call extreme stunts, summarized

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Speaker 1: in his idobiography This way, his breathing techniques, yoga and

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Speaker 1: cold training gave him enormous strength, and he liked to

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Speaker 1: share it with others. The media got him in their sights.

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Speaker 1: Encouraged by the attention and the effect it had on

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Speaker 1: other people, wim broke record after record. He took the

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Speaker 1: longest path in ice. He climbed snow covered mountain peaks

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Speaker 1: wearing shorts. He ran a marathon th on in Lapland

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Speaker 1: at negative thirty degrees celsius. He swam hundreds of meters

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Speaker 1: under ice. His records were reported on television in Japan, Germany, Poland,

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Speaker 1: Spain and many other countries. The BBC made a documentary

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Speaker 1: about him, and millions of people watched his feats on

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Speaker 1: the internet. And again, the way he's talking about his

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Speaker 1: early activities is almost as if they like the fame

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Speaker 1: that he received. The media coverage was an accident, right,

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Speaker 1: The media got him in their sights, as opposed to

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Speaker 1: he was kind of a fame hound, and he deliberately

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Speaker 1: went out of his way to get covered by the media.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he actively pursued being in the media at any opportunity.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it was like, oh, he just wound up getting

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Speaker 1: famous somehow.

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Speaker 4: Real.

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Speaker 2: Shoot, there's some dudo over that climbing mountain in box

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Speaker 2: of shorts. Maybe we should hear a story.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Now, all of these records. The twenty six Guinness

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Speaker 1: World Records that he claims to have set are in

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Speaker 1: reality somewhat less than accurate, and we'll cover that shortly,

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Speaker 1: but for right now, I want to return to another

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Speaker 1: one of Whim's claims. He says frequently that after years

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Speaker 1: of groundbreaking athletic success, he grew frustrated quote possibly because

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Speaker 1: he was still coming to terms with Olea's suicide quote

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Speaker 1: from his book. He felt the need to share his

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Speaker 1: knowledge and the possibilities of his body with more people.

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Speaker 1: Could other people do what he can do? In two

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Speaker 1: thousand and seven, the renowned Feinstein Institute in New York

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Speaker 1: studied Hoff. The results showed that he was able to

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Speaker 1: control his autonomic nervous system. For Whim, the results were logical,

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Speaker 1: after all, he had trained to do it for many years,

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Speaker 1: but the researchers thought he was a medical wonder. From

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Speaker 1: then on, Hoff put himself at the disposal of science.

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Speaker 1: His main aim was to show others that they could

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Speaker 1: also train to do what he does. It was the

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Speaker 1: start of a very special time in Whim's life. He

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Speaker 1: attracted more and more attention, and those who started using

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Speaker 1: his method were wildly enthusiastic. Now, James, I'm gonna admit

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Speaker 1: to a potential failure as a researcher here. I have

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Speaker 1: definitely found evidence of the Feinstein Center and doctor Tracy

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Speaker 1: who runs it, commenting in articles that feature whim Hoff.

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Speaker 1: They seem to be connected. I have not come across

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Speaker 1: any publication from the Feinstein Center about whim from two

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Speaker 1: thousand and seven, But two thousand and seven is the

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Speaker 1: year that he claims to have run the world's fastest

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Speaker 1: half marathon while barefoot on ice or snow in two

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Speaker 1: hours and sixteen minutes.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. How much competition is that for that? I don't

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Speaker 2: think there's a lot. Yeah, there a previous record.

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Speaker 1: First, it is important you remember the qualifier here is

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Speaker 1: this is the fastest half marathon barefoot on ice or snow, right,

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Speaker 1: not the fastest half marathon, not even the fastest half

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Speaker 1: marathon barefoot. Now, this is his only legitimate Guinness World record.

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Speaker 1: He did do this, This was verified by Guinness. He

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Speaker 1: does hold this record. I do want to note here

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Speaker 1: that Whim's time, if you are not using the qualifier

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Speaker 1: that that's the fastest half marathon barefoot on or snow,

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Speaker 1: is not particularly historic, right, as a half marathon time,

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Speaker 1: the current fastest half marathon is fifty nine minutes and

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Speaker 1: forty seven seconds, which is insane for thirteen point one miles.

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Speaker 1: He wouldn't be record breaking as a marathon time. Yeah, no,

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Speaker 1: it would be good. It'd be very impressed. Two hours

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Speaker 1: is great marathon, yesh. But to two and a quarter hours,

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Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, it's lessened in fast. People are running

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Speaker 1: for fast marathonism. So the first hard evidence of scientific

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Speaker 1: analysis of Whim's claims that I have is from twenty eleven.

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Speaker 1: Wim had by this point turned his experiments in cold

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Speaker 1: weather endurance into a lifestyle. He was well known for

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Speaker 1: going on long, barefoot runs in the snow and submerging

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Speaker 1: himself in ice for long periods of time without shivering.

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Speaker 1: A twenty eleven article published by Radboud University's Medical Center

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Speaker 1: is the first example I found of him being tested

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Speaker 1: by a reputable scientific source. It is notable that this

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Speaker 1: early article describes him as the iceman wim Hoff. Radboud's

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Speaker 1: researchers were specifically testing Whim's claims that he could influence

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Speaker 1: his autonomic, nervous system and immune response through concentration and

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Speaker 1: meditation and in that they are talking about what people

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Speaker 1: now call wim Hoff breathing, that is a version of

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Speaker 1: g tomo breathing. And I'm going to quote from this

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Speaker 1: study here. To investigate this, Hoff was administered indotox and

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Speaker 1: while practicing his concentration and meditation technique. During this experiment,

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Speaker 1: various measurements were performed, including brain activity, autonomic nervous system activity,

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Speaker 1: and inflammatory mediators in the blood. One of the researchers said,

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Speaker 1: after indotox and administration, the increase of the stress hormone

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Speaker 1: cortisol in Hoff was much more pronounced compared to other

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Speaker 1: healthy volunteers. We know that this hormone is released in

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Speaker 1: response to increased autonomic nervous system activity and that it

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Speaker 1: suppresses the immune response. In accordance to the levels of

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Speaker 1: inflammatory mediators in Hoff's blood were much lower. On average,

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Speaker 1: Hoff's immune response was decreased by fifty percent compared to

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Speaker 1: other healthy volunteers. In addition, hardly any flu like symptoms

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Speaker 1: were observed. These results are definitely remarkable, so that makes

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Speaker 1: it sound like Hoff was able to basically control his

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Speaker 1: immune system to reduce his immune response to being mildly poisoned.

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Speaker 3: In a way that.

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Speaker 1: Reduced his symptoms, which is very impressive sounding, right. If

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Speaker 1: that's a thing he was able to do, that is impressive,

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Speaker 1: that's interesting. But the paper went on to caution those

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Speaker 1: results were only obtained from a single person and thus

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Speaker 1: could not serve as evidence for claims that Hoff's techniques

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Speaker 1: could influence the immune system in meaningful ways.

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Speaker 2: Sure he could just have a weigh response.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we will refer. There's follow ups to this study,

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Speaker 1: so we will talk about that in a little bit.

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Speaker 1: The year before that twenty eleven study, twenty ten, Hoff

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Speaker 1: and his eldest son in Am had set up a

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Speaker 1: company called innert Fire to capitalize on the growing fascination

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Speaker 1: with Whim and his claims of superhuman abilities granted through

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Speaker 1: breathing techniques. They started organizing workshops, first in the Netherlands,

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Speaker 1: but then all over the world. Several other of his

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Speaker 1: children joined the organization, which grew rapidly as Wim became

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Speaker 1: a bonafide celebrity. Now, if you don't recall, the period

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Speaker 1: from twenty ten to twenty thirteen was the birth of

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Speaker 1: commodified viral content. Online journalists and writers for culture webs

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Speaker 1: sites like my old employer crack dot com had a

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Speaker 1: voracious appetite for so weird it must be true stories,

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Speaker 1: and wim Hoff was perfectly situated to go viral in

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Speaker 1: this area. The number one reason for his success was

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Speaker 1: his embrace of mainstream scientific studies of his techniques. Hoff

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Speaker 1: could do this because g TMO breathing, which is the

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Speaker 1: basis of all of his claims, does work in measurable ways.

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Speaker 1: In twenty twelve, researchers from Radboud performed that follow up

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Speaker 1: study comparing volunteers trained by Hoff and a control group.

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Speaker 1: Testes were poisoned lightly, and the immune activation of the

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Speaker 1: different groups was studied. An analysis of various studies on

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Speaker 1: wim Hoff breathing by the medical journal Temperature notes the

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Speaker 1: trained group had significantly increased epinephrine levels, increased levels of

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Speaker 1: anti inflammatory cytokin decreased levels of pro inflammatory mediators, and

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Speaker 1: less pronounced fever. Also, flu like symptoms were lower in

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Speaker 1: the trained group compared with the untrained group, and you

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Speaker 1: will find this cited constantly on Whim's website and in

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Speaker 1: news articles about which usually the study results are summed

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Speaker 1: up as the people who Whim trained were able to

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Speaker 1: control their immune systems and avoid sickness. That is not

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Speaker 1: what happened, and that journal article continues. The setup of

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Speaker 1: the research, however, did not allow discrimination between the acute

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Speaker 1: and the acquired responses, because during the experiment itself, the

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Speaker 1: volunteers from the intervention group were allowed to hyperventilate and

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Speaker 1: the control group was not. Therefore, the investigators included that

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Speaker 1: hyperventilation can temporarily activate the sympathetic nervous system and suppress

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Speaker 1: the innate immune response a long term yeah, long term

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Speaker 1: training effects were not addressed. Therefore, it still needs to

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Speaker 1: be sorted out if the training itself, hyperventilation, cold end

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Speaker 1: or meditation caused the observed effects. This study also notes

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Speaker 1: that the trainees were not just given cyclic hyperventilation training,

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Speaker 1: they were immersed in ice cold water, while the control

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Speaker 1: group was not. This matters more than you might think.

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Speaker 2: Quote.

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Speaker 1: Finally, coal may exert health effects. First of all, cold

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Speaker 1: may increase energy expenditure by shivering, but also by non

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Speaker 1: shivering thermogenesis, as mentioned above. In the recent past, quite

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Speaker 1: a few studies from several laboratories showed that humans are

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Speaker 1: able to increase their non shivering thermogenesis capacity due to

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Speaker 1: cold acclamation. This mirrors numerous studies in rodents. However, the

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Speaker 1: study effects in humans are of a smaller magnitude compared

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Speaker 1: with these animals. So number one, it's very debatable. There's

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Speaker 1: no evidence that there's significant health benefit to this. These

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Speaker 1: people had mildly less symptoms than the control group, right

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Speaker 1: of this mild poisoning in a controlled situation. And number two,

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Speaker 1: there are too many variables that were not isolated for that.

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Speaker 1: You can't say, oh, it was because of the breathing

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Speaker 1: or the meditation, or it may have just been. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's health benefits to being immersed in cold water, like

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Speaker 1: potentially at least short term.

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Speaker 2: Ones that buddy was freaking out because yeah it was drowning.

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Speaker 1: Yes, you can't say the kinds of things that are claimed.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean that it was like for people

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Speaker 2: who were on the internet back then, Like yeah, that

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Speaker 2: was the whole genre of like health viral influencer, right,

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Speaker 2: was taking a solid scientific claim and then building gradually

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Speaker 2: less and less solid claims on top of that, and

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Speaker 2: then grifting off that in too many people you can

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Speaker 2: make them happy and healthy and see their lives and such.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So anyway that gives you an idea and you

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Speaker 1: can find other studies about Whim. They all have breakdowns

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Speaker 1: like that when you actually get into what is being studied. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: we will talk a little bit more about this later.

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Speaker 1: So that's twenty twelve that that follow up study is

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Speaker 1: conducted by Rad Bowd and it is the very next

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Speaker 1: year that are ethically questionable. Friend Scott Carney comes onto

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Speaker 1: the scene. Twenty thirteen is the year that he met

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Speaker 1: Wim Hoff well, and he's he's working on this book

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Speaker 1: called The Enlightenment Trap, and he thinks Wim might be

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Speaker 1: an interesting subject for it. He kind of wants to

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Speaker 1: expose him as a grifter, so he talks Playboy Magus

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Speaker 1: into letting him go like hang out and take one

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Speaker 1: of Hoff's classes. So yeah, and he specifically writes in

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Speaker 1: his more recent article that he wanted to quote debunk

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Speaker 1: him as a charlatan trying to sell fake superpowers to

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Speaker 1: the masses, which is I think a reasonable way to

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Speaker 1: describe Wim Hall.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, he started out just fine.

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Speaker 1: So Carney describes Wim in twenty thirteen as quote at

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Speaker 1: merse most a circus act. He wore a green hat

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Speaker 1: and had a red nose and ruddy skin. That made

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Speaker 1: him appear a little gnomish. He was bursting with energy,

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Speaker 1: talked loudly, and smelled like an onion. To the extent

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Speaker 1: that he was known at all, it was for performing

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Speaker 1: death defying stunts in ice water and for a stint

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Speaker 1: shilling battery heated jackets for Columbia sportswear, not for possessing

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Speaker 1: valuable insights on the mind body connection. Yeah yeah real,

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Speaker 1: uh yeah, I didn't feel like they had a fallout.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, that's something happened here.

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Speaker 2: M hmm.

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Speaker 1: It is interesting because, like he describes in this period

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Speaker 1: is like, yeah, he was like a big media figure

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Speaker 1: in this part of Europe, but he was kind of like,

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Speaker 1: you know, a little bit of a carny, you know,

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Speaker 1: someone who you would show these gimmick jackets.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he's like a Joe Exotica of like doing this stuff.

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Speaker 2: You know, like he's famous but not necessarily respected. I

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Speaker 2: guess yeah, I would. I would say that.

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Speaker 1: So Scott gets to work studying Whim and listening to

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Speaker 1: his classes, and he finds himself, as he says, flabbergasted

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Speaker 1: by the fact that Whim's techniques really do work. There's

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Speaker 1: powerful benefits to this stuff. That's how Scott describes it.

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Speaker 3: Quote.

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Speaker 1: Within a few days, I learned to hold my breath

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Speaker 1: for several minutes at a stretch and heat my body

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Speaker 1: in the snow. An autoimmune illness that had plagued me

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Speaker 1: for thirty years went away. A few years later, I

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Speaker 1: climbed shirtless up Mount Kilimanjaro with Hoff. When the temperature

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Speaker 1: dipped into minus thirty degrees. There was no doubt about it.

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Speaker 1: I was a convert. Soon I became as chief evangelist,

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Speaker 1: not only writing the book What Doesn't Kill Us, which

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Speaker 1: spent a few months on the New York Times bestseller list,

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Speaker 1: appearing from more than three hundred media engagements, from TV

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Speaker 1: shows and news articles to radio programs and podcasts, where

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Speaker 1: I preached the good news.

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Speaker 2: That's so weird. Like, I don't know, man, I've written

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Speaker 2: Abassi people like mine. I've writen ABAUSI people like hey,

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Speaker 2: but I've never like, done three hundred podcast interviews about

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Speaker 2: how great anyone is like it. He kind of seems

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Speaker 2: to have moved from journalism to part of this Hoff

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Speaker 2: grift at this point. Yeah, So.

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Speaker 1: It's at this point that we should probably talk about

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Speaker 1: Mount Kilimanjaro. James, because Kilimanjaro is central to Whim's claims

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Speaker 1: of supernatural ability. It features heavily in all of his stories,

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Speaker 1: and I'm going to quote first from his how his

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Speaker 1: conquest of that infamous mountain is described by Rolling Stone

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Speaker 1: article Eric Headiguard in a twenty seventeen article, he attempted

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Speaker 1: to scale Mount Everest wearing nothing but shorts and shoes,

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Speaker 1: but was thwarted by a foot injury. He tackled Mount

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Speaker 1: Kilimanjaro next wearing only shorts and shoe and reach the

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Speaker 1: top in less than two days and unheard of feet. So, James,

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Speaker 1: that's not thankfully he has given us some stuff to

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Speaker 1: dig in do here. So the first question we should

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Speaker 1: ask ourselves is it an unheard of feet to reach

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Speaker 1: Kilimanjaro and the top of Kilimanjaro in less than two days?

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Speaker 4: Right?

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Speaker 2: Is that exceptionally rare?

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Speaker 4: No?

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Speaker 1: The current world record, and this is fucking nuts, by

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Speaker 1: the way, the current world record for an individual climb

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Speaker 1: and descent of Kilimanjaro is six hours and forty two minutes.

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Speaker 2: That is fass. That is fucking nuts. That is mountain running.

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Speaker 2: That is fucking yeah. That is wild. I don't I

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Speaker 2: actually don't know how that's physically possible, but it apparently

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Speaker 2: has been. Yeah, the altitude change. I haven't. I've been

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Speaker 2: up the other two highest mountains in Africa, a High

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Speaker 2: Atlas and Mount Kenya. But yeah, that you've ever done

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Speaker 2: higher than fourteen k for a peak, and like that

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Speaker 2: is a thing, you know, like fucking and this is

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Speaker 2: like so, by the way, Carl Eggloff of Switzerland is

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Speaker 2: the guy who did that. Obviously it is Swiss. Dude,

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Speaker 2: not surprised. Yeah, I had it down for being like

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Speaker 2: someone from tanzanierro Kenyero somewhere.

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Speaker 1: I mean, and it is like when we are talking

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Speaker 1: about Kilimanjaro. The peak of Kilimanjaro is nineteen thousand feet

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Speaker 1: above sea level. It is sixteen thousand feet above its

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Speaker 1: base plateau. That's the topographical prominence, which is a commonly

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Speaker 1: used measure for the difficulty of climbing a mountain.

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Speaker 2: Basically, it's like.

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Speaker 1: Because you have a lot of peaks that might be

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Speaker 1: like sixteen thousand feet, maybe they were only like a

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Speaker 1: two thousand foot hike or whatever above kind of the

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Speaker 1: ridge or whatever. So yeah, Kilimanjaro has the fourth highest

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Speaker 1: topographical prominence of any peak on Earth, which makes it,

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Speaker 1: you know, by any widely accepted mountaineering metric, one of

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Speaker 1: the harder mountains out there to climb. So hey, whim

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Speaker 1: is bullshitting about his time up to the top of

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Speaker 1: Kilimanjaro being particularly exceptional. But hiking to the top of

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Speaker 1: Kilimanjaro in shorts and shoes does seem impressive, and it's

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Speaker 1: certainly not a bad time. But he generally fails to

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Speaker 1: note that he didn't actually summit Kilimanjara. He didn't actually

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Speaker 1: reach the he didn't reach the top summit of Kilimanjaro.

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Speaker 1: And I'm going to quote here from a write up

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Speaker 1: by Pepisien von Erp, a mathematician from Radboud University, which

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Speaker 1: is the same school that carried out the experiments that

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Speaker 1: initially seemed to verify Hoff's incredible claims. Quote wim Hoff

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Speaker 1: and the group of pioneers started on January fourteenth at

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Speaker 1: an altitude of eighteen hundred meters. From there, they marched

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Speaker 1: onto a camp at thirty seven hundred meters. They stayed

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Speaker 1: there during the night and went early in the morning

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Speaker 1: to break through the top at five thoy six hundred

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Speaker 1: and eighty five meters. Gilman's point, this tempo would normally

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Speaker 1: not have been possible because of the acclimization time used

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Speaker 1: to prevent altitude seekness. But wait a second, Gilman's point,

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Speaker 1: that's not the actual summit of Kilimanjarro, is it, wim Hoff,

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Speaker 1: And it is in fact one of three official summit

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Speaker 1: points on the mountain, but not the actual peak, which

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Speaker 1: is a houru peak, which is where the dude who

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Speaker 1: made the trek in less than seven hours reached and

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Speaker 1: then made it back down. So again you can get

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Speaker 1: some insight into the nature of Whim's personal sort of

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Speaker 1: like pr tactics here. Right, any normal person would consider

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Speaker 1: reaching Gilman's peak with a group of largely untrained hikers

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Speaker 1: and getting back down in two days or less to

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Speaker 1: be impressive, and doing it in shorts extra impressive. But

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Speaker 1: that's not going to go viral, right, because you're not

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Speaker 1: breaking any records. You know, you're doing a pretty good

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Speaker 1: time and a pretty impressive thing, but you're not doing

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Speaker 1: anything that's like going a win you an award, And

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Speaker 1: so you've got to kind of jink the truth in

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Speaker 1: order to get something that's gonna be real easy to

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Speaker 1: like go viral. In an article or whatever.

432
00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:48,720
Speaker 2: And like choosing Kilimanjara is a choice, right, Like it's

433
00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:50,760
Speaker 2: a big ass mountain and it's a great achievement to

434
00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:54,240
Speaker 2: climb it. But it's not a technical climb, No, it's

435
00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:56,480
Speaker 2: you know, like it's something you could, like people do

436
00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:58,520
Speaker 2: kill a manjar in their retirement if that's the kind

437
00:22:58,520 --> 00:22:59,919
Speaker 2: of thing they enjoy, and you could spend a lot

438
00:22:59,960 --> 00:23:02,840
Speaker 2: of money, I have someone carry all your stuff, Like, yeah,

439
00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:07,119
Speaker 2: for something that sounds super impressive, like it's not Everest.

440
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:10,200
Speaker 2: And yeah, he compares him in the same paragraph in

441
00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:14,000
Speaker 2: that piece you read a second ago. Yeah, it's very

442
00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:16,919
Speaker 2: I know he's taken like one point of truth and

443
00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:19,480
Speaker 2: extrapolated exactly exactly.

444
00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:22,200
Speaker 1: And the way that he phrases things, he's always got

445
00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:25,159
Speaker 1: a defense if people call him out, because if someone's like, well,

446
00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:26,919
Speaker 1: but you didn't actually do it this way, he can

447
00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:28,399
Speaker 1: always be like, well, no, what I meant is that

448
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:31,320
Speaker 1: no one else hiked up at this time without a

449
00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:34,560
Speaker 1: shirt or wearing shorts, or with an untrained group of hikers. Right,

450
00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:36,680
Speaker 1: So it's the shortest time for someone doing all those

451
00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:37,800
Speaker 1: things because like no.

452
00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:39,359
Speaker 2: One keeps track of that shit.

453
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:41,919
Speaker 1: Yeah, It's like if I were to climb up kill

454
00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:44,120
Speaker 1: him in Jarro in like five days and be like, yeah,

455
00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:45,960
Speaker 1: but I did it the fastest anyone's ever done it.

456
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:47,800
Speaker 1: In my head full of cocaine, I was like, well,

457
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:49,240
Speaker 1: nobody's really keeping.

458
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:52,840
Speaker 2: Track of that. Yeah, fastest guy named Robert Evans he

459
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:54,120
Speaker 2: his doing coca at the time.

460
00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:56,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, I beat that other Robert Evans. He didn't

461
00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:58,280
Speaker 1: even make it up to kill him in Jarrow when

462
00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:04,000
Speaker 1: he was on No, I don't do cocaine, folks, just

463
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:08,080
Speaker 1: just good old fashioned gas station adderall you know. That's

464
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:09,680
Speaker 1: the that's the healthy thing to do.

465
00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:11,760
Speaker 2: Is that the stuff that's by when you check out,

466
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:15,440
Speaker 2: it's quickly get giant drugger bills and I mix him

467
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:18,520
Speaker 2: with Creton. We call that a seven eleven speedball, buddy.

468
00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:18,960
Speaker 4: Yeah.

469
00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:23,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, you'll suppressed on posting your buddies natural responses when

470
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:24,920
Speaker 2: you do that. Let me tell you you sure will

471
00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:27,320
Speaker 2: way better than Whim. Can we gotta line you up

472
00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:30,320
Speaker 2: with some Dutch scientists, buddy, This could be a whole thing. Yeah.

473
00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:32,960
Speaker 1: So it's when you read Whim's book that it becomes

474
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:35,680
Speaker 1: clear he wants his followers to believe no one else

475
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:38,440
Speaker 1: can manage the hike in the time that he did quote,

476
00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:40,760
Speaker 1: Haff decided he would climb Mount kill Him and jar

477
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:42,639
Speaker 1: with a group of people. Kill Him and Jarro was

478
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:45,400
Speaker 1: a five eight hundred ninety five meter three point sixty

479
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:48,280
Speaker 1: six mile high mountain in Tanzania. It's a very popular

480
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:51,560
Speaker 1: expedition for mountaineers and hikers. Well trained climbers can get

481
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:53,919
Speaker 1: to the top in six days. To make the challenge

482
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:56,440
Speaker 1: even greater, Haff wanted to climb Killiman Jarrow in forty

483
00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:58,840
Speaker 1: eight hours with a group of twenty six people. Haff

484
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:00,800
Speaker 1: wanted to show that we're all people of doing much

485
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:03,520
Speaker 1: more than most people think is even possible with excess

486
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:06,199
Speaker 1: this expedition too, everyone said it was impossible to get

487
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:07,880
Speaker 1: up to the top in forty eight hours with such

488
00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:10,240
Speaker 1: a large group. As if that wasn't enough, some of

489
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:12,320
Speaker 1: the people in the group were suffering from diseases like

490
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:16,160
Speaker 1: multiple sclerosis, rheumatism, Crohn's disease and cancer. They also had

491
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:19,800
Speaker 1: no climbing experience. The date was set for January twenty fourteen,

492
00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:22,359
Speaker 1: and the run up to the expedition was chaotic. Doctor

493
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:25,720
Speaker 1: Girt Bougies of the Amsterdam Medical Center wanted to accompany

494
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:28,160
Speaker 1: the expedition in a personal capacity to help the group.

495
00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:30,639
Speaker 1: The local guides thought the whole thing was a bad idea.

496
00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:33,600
Speaker 1: At the last moment, the guides decided not to go. However,

497
00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:36,080
Speaker 1: Hoff was resolute this group was capable of reaching the

498
00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:38,159
Speaker 1: top by focusing on their breathing, and because they had

499
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:41,000
Speaker 1: prepared with cold training, so they went. When the group

500
00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:43,640
Speaker 1: arrived at Horombo Hut, a small huddle of climbing huts

501
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:46,400
Speaker 1: at an altitude of three thousand, seven hundred and five meters,

502
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:49,400
Speaker 1: the temperature had fallen to three degrees celsius thirty seven

503
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,080
Speaker 1: degrees fahrenheit. As if climbing to the top of kilimanjar

504
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:54,199
Speaker 1: in forty eight hours with twenty six people, many of

505
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:56,880
Speaker 1: whom were ill, was not enough, Whim suggested they walk

506
00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:59,679
Speaker 1: bare chested and in shorts, breathing in cold training were

507
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:02,920
Speaker 1: the seat secrets. And again, if that is the way

508
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:06,160
Speaker 1: that it actually went, that's impressive enough. But again Whims,

509
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:08,320
Speaker 1: it's dumb, though, But Whim's got a lie and it's

510
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:12,479
Speaker 1: not like superhuman again he's lying about like it's almost

511
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:14,639
Speaker 1: well tra Only well trained climbers can get to the

512
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:17,160
Speaker 1: top and less than six days, no man people are

513
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:19,159
Speaker 1: up and down that thing. Someone has done it in

514
00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:22,000
Speaker 1: less than seven hours. Yeah, just not to say like

515
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:25,080
Speaker 1: everyone can do that. Obviously that's an extreme thing, but

516
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:27,840
Speaker 1: like six days is it's not like it doesn't it's

517
00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:30,240
Speaker 1: not like impossible to do in less than six days.

518
00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:33,800
Speaker 2: And you're like you're doing cue declamation right, like when

519
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:37,200
Speaker 2: you're doing that six seven to ten days whatever you're doing,

520
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:41,119
Speaker 2: like you're you're taking time to acclimate to different altitudes. Yeah, it,

521
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:44,000
Speaker 2: I know, like I have a I don't know why

522
00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:47,000
Speaker 2: this one upsets me so much. I think having done

523
00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:50,960
Speaker 2: some walking up mountains, like if your guide says, noah,

524
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:53,880
Speaker 2: fuck it, I'm not going that's dumb, you're like, don't go,

525
00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:56,280
Speaker 2: because that same guide is going to be on a

526
00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 2: search and rescue team finding your dumb ass and like

527
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:02,800
Speaker 2: risking their life to try and help you, and that

528
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:03,560
Speaker 2: that's not okay.

529
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:08,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's being really reckless here. And I've been reckless

530
00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 1: doing a mountain climb before that was ill advised, but

531
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:14,879
Speaker 1: not with twenty six people I was responsible for. You know,

532
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:18,200
Speaker 1: Like again it's about like who you in danger and

533
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:21,919
Speaker 1: like yeah, and I shouldn't have done the climb that

534
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:23,680
Speaker 1: I did, but it was a it's it.

535
00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:24,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like this.

536
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:28,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's this claiming that, like what you're doing

537
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:30,919
Speaker 1: is somehow like impossible. No one thought we could do it.

538
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:33,400
Speaker 2: It's like no, man, like, people have done much more

539
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:36,679
Speaker 2: impressive things on Kilimanjaro than what you did routing it,

540
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:38,800
Speaker 2: not in like oh I'm just a gryfto or I

541
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:40,320
Speaker 2: just wanted to see if I could do it even

542
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 2: or I wanted to do something odd, but being like, oh,

543
00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:44,639
Speaker 2: I did it for everyone so everyone could see what

544
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:47,600
Speaker 2: they're capable of, Like, no you didn't.

545
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:50,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm glad no one died this time, but that

546
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:53,840
Speaker 1: may be evidence of the fact that, like, Kilimanjaro is

547
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:55,600
Speaker 1: a mountain that you can get away with that on

548
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 1: as opposed to Everest.

549
00:27:57,119 --> 00:27:59,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, yeah, someone would die or like K two whatever.

550
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:02,280
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, so send send him up K two. That's

551
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:07,480
Speaker 2: a challenge for me to shirt listen. Yeah, yeah, if

552
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:08,119
Speaker 2: you think you're.

553
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:12,480
Speaker 1: Hard from two thousand, actually you know, first off, James,

554
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:13,359
Speaker 1: you know who is hard?

555
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:18,400
Speaker 2: People who buy the products from these Yeah, because we've

556
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:20,879
Speaker 2: got dick pills. That's right, we do have dick pills.

557
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:25,119
Speaker 2: God willing you know, Uh, gotcha we'll get more dick pills. Yeah,

558
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:26,520
Speaker 2: so hopefully.

559
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:30,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, grab some dick pills, grab some Trucker amphetamines and

560
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:33,480
Speaker 1: uh you know, grab on the gas station, create and

561
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:35,120
Speaker 1: mix them all together. See what happens.

562
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:37,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, run up about That's how they did

563
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 2: it in six hours man.

564
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:40,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know how. You know how weightlifters talk about

565
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:43,720
Speaker 1: muscle confusion. Confuse all of your organs.

566
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:44,200
Speaker 3: You know what.

567
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:46,840
Speaker 1: Just take every pill in the gas station and see

568
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:47,680
Speaker 1: what it does to you.

569
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 2: That's the key. You have some road records for sure,

570
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 2: you sure will highest hot rate by you.

571
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 1: So from twenty fourteen on, Whim's fame picked up by

572
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:06,080
Speaker 1: leaps and bounds, Inner Fire became a popular lifestyle wellness

573
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 1: brand for celebrities interested in pushing the extremes of human capacity.

574
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 1: Harrison Ford ragged about taking his classes on a live

575
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 1: talk show appearance, and he was far from the A

576
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:17,520
Speaker 1: lot of celebrities are into Wim Hoff breathing. I've done

577
00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:20,240
Speaker 1: his stuff. Wim was a regular guest on the Tim

578
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:22,520
Speaker 1: Ferris Show. That's one of the big things that made

579
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:25,520
Speaker 1: him huge, Tim Ferriss is the four hour work week

580
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:27,480
Speaker 1: and the four hour body. He does all of these

581
00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:31,600
Speaker 1: like hacking, like body hacking and productivity hacking.

582
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:35,200
Speaker 2: Is he the bulletproof coffee guy. No, no, No, that's

583
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:36,840
Speaker 2: a different guy. That's it. But I think that guy's

584
00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:39,200
Speaker 2: been on Tim Ferris's show. Okay. Yeah.

585
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 1: And one of the claims that Wim made on Tim

586
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 1: show was that he could speak ten languages fluently, which

587
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:47,360
Speaker 1: is an impress I've known some people who are that

588
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:49,560
Speaker 1: kind of polyglot. I've had some fixers who were that

589
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:51,680
Speaker 1: kind of polyglot, you know, vict.

590
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:54,120
Speaker 2: Victor Boot, famous multiple language guys.

591
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:58,840
Speaker 1: Maya, my Arabic teacher, learned Mandarin over the course of

592
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:01,000
Speaker 1: a year. Is like a ida hobby, like the way

593
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 1: some people get into like basketball or something. Yeah, because

594
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:09,400
Speaker 1: he's a language genius. You know, some people are like that.

595
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:11,640
Speaker 2: So that's an enviable skill.

596
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:14,280
Speaker 1: It is a very It's the most enviable skill in

597
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:17,920
Speaker 1: my opinion. And I can't say that Wim can't do this.

598
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:21,680
Speaker 1: I don't know if Wim can speak ten languages fluently.

599
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:24,960
Speaker 1: I do know that Wim stretches the truth about a lot,

600
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 1: and he's probably stretching the truth about this. But because

601
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 1: Tim Ferriss is also one fan describes him as a

602
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:36,200
Speaker 1: language hacker. He asks whim, how did you learn ten languages?

603
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:38,880
Speaker 1: And Whim answers, just be open and love to learn,

604
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:40,880
Speaker 1: and that's it. I had no real teachers, you know,

605
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:42,840
Speaker 1: people in the street, and sometimes I had to look

606
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:45,680
Speaker 1: for a teacher, like a Japanese teacher here in Amsterdam

607
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:48,680
Speaker 1: and a Hindu teacher. So yeah, I was just interested.

608
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:50,800
Speaker 1: If you are interested in life and you get to

609
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:53,080
Speaker 1: know and you never stop learning because you love it.

610
00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:58,920
Speaker 2: I don't think he speaks English fluently. Yeah, that's that's

611
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 2: not a statement. Yeah.

612
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:04,480
Speaker 1: I think he meant Hindi and not Gendu.

613
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:06,240
Speaker 2: I was wondering what was going on there.

614
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:09,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, so anyway, but that's understandable, right if he's like,

615
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 1: if he's not his language, English isn't perfect, maybe he

616
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 1: might mess that up. So appearances with Joe Rogan and

617
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:20,680
Speaker 1: other extreme sports affiliated media personalities followed, and WiM's portfolio

618
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:25,200
Speaker 1: of braggadocio expanded too. Kilimanjaro was always one of his

619
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:28,000
Speaker 1: chief claims to fame, but he soon added the claim

620
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 1: that he had broken twenty six world records. This is

621
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:35,040
Speaker 1: again untrue. He currently holds one Guinness World record for

622
00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:38,520
Speaker 1: that half marathon, but it is easily Whim's most boring

623
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:41,080
Speaker 1: lie because there's not even a fun story here.

624
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:44,840
Speaker 2: He's just full of shit. But papers including like that's

625
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 2: he's done an enemer in a while, buddy, Yeah, yeah,

626
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:49,320
Speaker 2: he needs to get to get a shit out that'll

627
00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:50,480
Speaker 2: clean the truth up here.

628
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:53,440
Speaker 1: But like a lot I found, like Rolling Stone and

629
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:56,040
Speaker 1: Guardian articles, all sorts of articles that will just repeat

630
00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:59,520
Speaker 1: the twenty six world records thing. Sometimes they hedge their bets,

631
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:01,880
Speaker 1: being like he claims to have won this, but rarely

632
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:03,560
Speaker 1: do they actually dig into the fact that like, no,

633
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:04,080
Speaker 1: we didn't.

634
00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:07,240
Speaker 2: He just didn't. He just didn't do this. Yeah.

635
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:10,640
Speaker 1: Now, many major outlets have often been willing to lend

636
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:13,880
Speaker 1: credence to Whim's claims. By far, the greatest ally he's

637
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:16,280
Speaker 1: had as a grifter are the podcasts of guys like

638
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:19,600
Speaker 1: Joe Rogan. Probably my favorite example of this is quite

639
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:22,480
Speaker 1: mild by comparison, but I found it funny. And one

640
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:25,280
Speaker 1: talk with Rogan, he was making his usual bold claims

641
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 1: of having gained control of his immune system, and Joe asked,

642
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:31,240
Speaker 1: you're able to deal with malaria, and Wim responded, yes,

643
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:33,320
Speaker 1: he was, and further, he would be willing to get

644
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:34,640
Speaker 1: infected with malaria for.

645
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:38,280
Speaker 2: Science to prove his resilience. And all I gotta say is, please,

646
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:47,360
Speaker 2: let's do this. Yeah, whim get the number one killer

647
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:50,680
Speaker 2: of human beings across the the AONs of time that

648
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:55,600
Speaker 2: we've existed and infect yourself as a bit Jesus, as

649
00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 2: someone who's had fact you do not want to do

650
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 2: that as a bit or not that will It's again,

651
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:03,680
Speaker 2: it's like fucking with uh, like with Mount Everest, Like

652
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:06,360
Speaker 2: you just don't want to do that, right, Yeah, you

653
00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:08,600
Speaker 2: can fuck around with like you know, when they're doing

654
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:11,200
Speaker 2: these studies, they'll inject them with a little bit of poison, right,

655
00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:15,640
Speaker 2: that be a mild flu. You don't fuck around with malaria,

656
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:20,880
Speaker 2: like with malaria pills, like with the medicine that you

657
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:24,520
Speaker 2: take to avoid getting it has pretty serious sight effects. Yes,

658
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:27,040
Speaker 2: it does that stuff. I have seen some sunburns. Yeah,

659
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:30,200
Speaker 2: but yeah, yeah, where did Rogan plug that one from?

660
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:30,440
Speaker 4: You?

661
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:32,240
Speaker 2: Guys like, oh yeah, I can control my immune system.

662
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:34,040
Speaker 2: And he's just like, yeah, you want to do malaria.

663
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:38,640
Speaker 2: You want to take some malaria with me? So God,

664
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 2: the good that would do to the world if we

665
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:44,040
Speaker 2: could get both of those men into a malaria challenge.

666
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:45,160
Speaker 2: Both get them to take it.

667
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:48,040
Speaker 3: No, man, if you really want to d MT's pussy ship,

668
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:51,400
Speaker 3: if you really want to like learn some stuff about yourself, bro,

669
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:54,640
Speaker 3: you got to take malaria homes like that's how you

670
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:55,840
Speaker 3: fucking learn you're tough.

671
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:01,440
Speaker 2: Really fucking hated that.

672
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:06,680
Speaker 4: And the listeners don't get the horrifying visual of you

673
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:08,920
Speaker 4: that coming from your face.

674
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:13,879
Speaker 2: It's just yeah, oh it's beautiful ruining. Okay, So yeah,

675
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 2: you've ruined malaria, Robert. Yeah, you, Hilaria is gonna get

676
00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:21,000
Speaker 2: canceled now. Yeah, chick and Gunya is right there wanting

677
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:22,239
Speaker 2: to take it spot the whole time.

678
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:22,840
Speaker 1: Mm hmmmm.

679
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 2: I was going to go with the sleeping sickness. Yeah,

680
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:26,600
Speaker 2: so like that.

681
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:32,040
Speaker 1: Much of Whim's success with shoddy journalists and podcast hosts

682
00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:34,640
Speaker 1: lies in the low level of scientific literacy in this

683
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:37,480
Speaker 1: country and his skill at pulling out technobabble that would

684
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:40,640
Speaker 1: make a star trek writer blush. One of Whim's favorite

685
00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:43,799
Speaker 1: claims is that his hyperventilation techniques allow someone to reach

686
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 1: levels of oxygen saturation above one hundred percent in their blood.

687
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:52,319
Speaker 2: Now, jam, so neither of us are doctors here, but

688
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:57,600
Speaker 2: can you pick out where the scientific irregularity might be there. Yeah,

689
00:34:57,640 --> 00:34:59,320
Speaker 2: I think it's a it's run around in the no

690
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:02,879
Speaker 2: of a PERCENTAGEES is a thing. Yeah, I think.

691
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:05,040
Speaker 4: I think in this next session we should have James

692
00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:06,680
Speaker 4: read the part of whim.

693
00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:08,280
Speaker 2: You're right, You're right, James.

694
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:11,840
Speaker 1: We're going to read a transcript from that October twenty

695
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:15,080
Speaker 1: sixteen interview on the Joe Rogan podcast where he makes

696
00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:17,840
Speaker 1: this claim and Joe questions him, I'm gonna.

697
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:20,440
Speaker 2: Be Joe Rogan. Okay, Oh I love that for you.

698
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:23,680
Speaker 1: Okay, and you'll you'll be whim all right, So Sophie's

699
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 1: gonna Sophie's gonna send them.

700
00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:29,000
Speaker 2: I gonna do my Dutch accent. Yeah, do your dut no,

701
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:31,840
Speaker 2: be real offensive with it. Yeah yeah, I'll do my

702
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:34,759
Speaker 2: offensive Joe Rogan accent. Yeah, I'll just say, what does

703
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:38,279
Speaker 2: it do? It's called from a chimney. People who don't

704
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:42,840
Speaker 2: understand the Dutch tradition of shwata pete uh not understand

705
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:43,319
Speaker 2: that joke.

706
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:48,359
Speaker 1: Here we go, here's me as Joe Rogan, but there

707
00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:51,080
Speaker 1: is nothing more than one hundred percent. They had a

708
00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:53,040
Speaker 1: level that they thought was one hundred percent, and then

709
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:55,319
Speaker 1: they said nobody had reached a higher level than this,

710
00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:58,360
Speaker 1: So it must be what one hundred percent saturation looks like.

711
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:01,680
Speaker 2: Yeah exactly. It's not that you got more than one

712
00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:04,440
Speaker 2: hundred percent saturation, it's that you achieved higher levels of

713
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:08,239
Speaker 2: saturation than they thought possible. Yeah exactly. They did it

714
00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:10,319
Speaker 2: with a laser on the chest and then they were

715
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:14,120
Speaker 2: able to measure the mitochondria oxygen tension. They're able to

716
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:17,600
Speaker 2: receive more oxygen. That's a great finding. It shows we

717
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:20,879
Speaker 2: can have more oxygen inside. Suddenly we're able to get

718
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:23,719
Speaker 2: into the cell and influence the energy production. If it

719
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:26,520
Speaker 2: is anaerobic, it is like two molecules able to produce.

720
00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:29,839
Speaker 2: When it becomes aerobic, then it's thirty eight molecules they

721
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:33,239
Speaker 2: can produce. What happens What happens with a cell that

722
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:35,560
Speaker 2: is deprived for forty eight hours of thirty five percent

723
00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:39,799
Speaker 2: less oxygen, It becomes cancerous? As simple as that. Have

724
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:43,680
Speaker 2: you ever worked more cancer patients? I want to, But

725
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:46,560
Speaker 2: it's very complicated. Thank god for that.

726
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:47,520
Speaker 4: Now.

727
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:53,600
Speaker 1: I gotta tell you, none of that means anything. That's bullshit. Yeah,

728
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:56,319
Speaker 1: it is not fucking That is not science. They have

729
00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:59,880
Speaker 1: talked to medical experts, They have talked to doctors for

730
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:03,040
Speaker 1: and Scott Carney had to try to get this like translated.

731
00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:04,040
Speaker 2: It's nonsense.

732
00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:08,319
Speaker 4: Those are two people using words that they think means

733
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:10,799
Speaker 4: something that don't mean what they think they mean. But

734
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:14,040
Speaker 4: they they've properly learned how to pronounce them and are

735
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:16,359
Speaker 4: just using them in ways that don't actually.

736
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:18,160
Speaker 2: Make well and it's pretty just writing.

737
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:21,240
Speaker 4: Yes, it's inconceivable and nonsensical.

738
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:23,879
Speaker 1: Well, Joe and and Joe is even a little worse

739
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:26,560
Speaker 1: there because he recognizes as soon as Whim makes his

740
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:28,719
Speaker 1: first set of claims that they've achieved, he says, like,

741
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:31,000
Speaker 1: we had oxygen saturation of one hundred three percent. Joe

742
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:33,839
Speaker 1: knows that's impossible, so he's like, you meant this right,

743
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:36,879
Speaker 1: and then Whim like just goes off on a limb

744
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:40,920
Speaker 1: using technobabble that like again does not is not accurate.

745
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:43,160
Speaker 1: This is not what is happening, is not what happens

746
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:47,080
Speaker 1: with people who do his breathing techniques. But yeah, it

747
00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:49,640
Speaker 1: does show kind of the degree of I would say,

748
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:53,160
Speaker 1: like collusion that Rogan has to try to protect his guests.

749
00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:55,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's trying to. It's a narrative being like, no,

750
00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:59,120
Speaker 2: we have to make this credible, Like Steer in this direction. Yeah,

751
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:05,080
Speaker 2: and office is resolutely sticking to his absolute bullshit, fucking nonsense. Yeah,

752
00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:06,920
Speaker 2: absolutely not being made credible.

753
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:11,920
Speaker 1: Whim's dedication to this bullshit has caused consternation to some

754
00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:14,960
Speaker 1: of the honest researchers who studied his techniques for years

755
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:17,040
Speaker 1: because they were impressed with some of the benefits that

756
00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:18,160
Speaker 1: those techniques.

757
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:18,439
Speaker 2: Might have had.

758
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:22,359
Speaker 1: Scott Carney quotes Brian mackenzie, a breathwork expert who worked

759
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:24,560
Speaker 1: with Whim for years before being turned off by his

760
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:28,200
Speaker 1: pseudo scientific claims. McKenzie says that, in his opinion, no

761
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:30,799
Speaker 1: person at enter Fire has a meaningful grasp of the

762
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:35,400
Speaker 1: physiology behind their techniques. Woodo van markin Liechtenbelt, a professor

763
00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:38,600
Speaker 1: of health at must Strict University, was studied off terms

764
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:43,239
Speaker 1: his scientific vocabulary galimattius, a rare word for nonsense.

765
00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:43,960
Speaker 2: Quote.

766
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:48,560
Speaker 1: He mixes in a nonsensical way scientific terms as irrefutable evidence.

767
00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:52,320
Speaker 2: That's literally what I just said it okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

768
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:55,240
Speaker 2: Wooder just uses a fancier word. Yeah, Sophie's been sided.

769
00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:58,880
Speaker 4: Literally what I just said. I'm a professor of absolutely nothing.

770
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:02,400
Speaker 1: You're well, that's right, that's right now. Wooder wrote that

771
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:05,600
Speaker 1: article in the Journal of Temperature that I quoted from earlier,

772
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:08,759
Speaker 1: and he has explained scientifically how some of Whim's most

773
00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:12,880
Speaker 1: apparently impressive accomplishments are less than what they seem. A

774
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:15,640
Speaker 1: good example is his famous ability to remain submerged in

775
00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:19,080
Speaker 1: ice water for significant periods of time without shivering. Wooder

776
00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:21,319
Speaker 1: notes that upon exiting the ice he does shiver like

777
00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:24,160
Speaker 1: anyone else, and that while he has adapted to the

778
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:26,480
Speaker 1: cold to a degree most of us would find impressive,

779
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:30,480
Speaker 1: many other people have shown shown similar capacity without following

780
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:34,760
Speaker 1: his methods quote. The conclusion must be that nothing miraculous occurred.

781
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:38,120
Speaker 1: Although a non shivering thermogenesis of forty percent is considered

782
00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:40,799
Speaker 1: as high, it is not that extreme. I think wim

783
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:43,000
Speaker 1: Hoff withstands the cold in the ice cubes through a

784
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:47,640
Speaker 1: combination of several factors, an increased heat production, non shivering thermogenesis,

785
00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:52,480
Speaker 1: brown fat activation, contraction, respiratory muscles efficiently increasing body tissue

786
00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:56,520
Speaker 1: insulation fasoconstriction, thereby reducing heat loss and conserving the body

787
00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:59,879
Speaker 1: core heat content. And finally, perhaps not unimportantly, he used

788
00:39:59,880 --> 00:40:02,560
Speaker 1: his well trained mental ability to endure the cold, change

789
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:04,560
Speaker 1: of mindset as he calls it. As soon as he

790
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:06,719
Speaker 1: steps out of the ice, he starts shivering just as

791
00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:09,480
Speaker 1: everyone else, due to the redistribution of the cool blood

792
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:11,759
Speaker 1: from his limbs to the body core, also known as

793
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:15,080
Speaker 1: the after drop effect. Now, one of the things we

794
00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:17,759
Speaker 1: will note is that there is evidence in some of

795
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:20,000
Speaker 1: these studies that the people who train with Whims show

796
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:25,279
Speaker 1: benefits beyond those normally associated with g tamo breathing. Those benefits, though,

797
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:27,439
Speaker 1: are in line with the fact that he is very

798
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:30,359
Speaker 1: good at motivating people. He is a good teacher in

799
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:34,600
Speaker 1: his ability to make people excited and feel both comfortable

800
00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:37,600
Speaker 1: and safe and good about themselves so that they will

801
00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:40,600
Speaker 1: explore pushing the limits of their bodies beyond what they

802
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:43,480
Speaker 1: might normally do. And that is to the extent that

803
00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:46,400
Speaker 1: there's anything extra going on with Whim's training, it's that

804
00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:50,560
Speaker 1: he's really good at making people feel comfortable experimenting and

805
00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:55,520
Speaker 1: taking risks they might not otherwise take. And on the

806
00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:58,759
Speaker 1: level of that where it doesn't go badly, it has

807
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:01,560
Speaker 1: a pretty profound impact on people. Right when you are

808
00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:04,319
Speaker 1: convinced to try something you didn't think you can do

809
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:08,400
Speaker 1: that is difficult and uncomfortable and a little scary and

810
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:12,239
Speaker 1: then you succeed, you feel great, Yes, right, super empowering.

811
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:14,319
Speaker 1: It's very empowering when you deal it with a group

812
00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:16,839
Speaker 1: of people. You can become very close to those people, right,

813
00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:19,200
Speaker 1: and if there's someone who leads you through it, like

814
00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:21,080
Speaker 1: that person can become a guru.

815
00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:21,279
Speaker 4: Right.

816
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:24,239
Speaker 1: It can engender and almost religious mania. This is why

817
00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:26,120
Speaker 1: a lot of we talk about like all these different

818
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:28,719
Speaker 1: kind of cults and stuff that have they'll get people

819
00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:30,720
Speaker 1: in a group and have them like yelling and and

820
00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:33,360
Speaker 1: insulting and attacking each other, or they'll all focus on

821
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:36,280
Speaker 1: like abusing one person, which is a lot less healthy

822
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:37,880
Speaker 1: than kind of the way whim does it. But the

823
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:41,120
Speaker 1: goal is the same, right to have an intense, extreme

824
00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:44,719
Speaker 1: experience that pushes people beyond some limit they had set

825
00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:48,400
Speaker 1: for themselves, and that can cause them to have a

826
00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:51,600
Speaker 1: degree of like almost religious faith in the person who

827
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:54,600
Speaker 1: led them through it. Right, it's guru syndrome, you know.

828
00:41:55,239 --> 00:41:58,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you see anal kinds of things, and it's

829
00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:01,160
Speaker 2: why it can be so empowering. Like it's why we

830
00:42:01,239 --> 00:42:04,040
Speaker 2: run like outward bound programs for people with disabilities or

831
00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:06,279
Speaker 2: people with injuries, Like I've worked on some of those,

832
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:08,160
Speaker 2: and it's one of the coolest things to do. If

833
00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:10,359
Speaker 2: you've you don't before you turn into a total piece

834
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:10,680
Speaker 2: of shit.

835
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:14,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's the problem with whim right, because you know,

836
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:16,440
Speaker 1: a lot of aspects of what he's doing are certainly

837
00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:19,760
Speaker 1: healthier than I don't know, the kinds of like training

838
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:22,320
Speaker 1: that some of these like weird drug abuse cults and

839
00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:24,520
Speaker 1: stuff would do, where they'd have everyone shouting at each

840
00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:25,320
Speaker 1: other in a circle.

841
00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:26,440
Speaker 2: Sure, a lot less.

842
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:29,760
Speaker 1: Toxic than that, But there is an alleged body count

843
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:32,880
Speaker 1: to the way Hoff's training works. Before we get to that,

844
00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:34,920
Speaker 1: we are building to that. There are a couple of

845
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:38,200
Speaker 1: other lies I want to bust of. His first one

846
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:41,120
Speaker 1: involves the claim sometimes made that he summitted or at

847
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:43,960
Speaker 1: least got close to summoning Mount Everest in shorts. Yeah,

848
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:46,360
Speaker 1: I forgot about that. Yeah, you'll hear that. Sometimes he

849
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:49,680
Speaker 1: aborted his attempt at ever of Everest slightly past base

850
00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:52,880
Speaker 1: camp because he got frostbite. Because again, you tried to

851
00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:55,040
Speaker 1: do the shit he's done other places. You can't fuck

852
00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:57,640
Speaker 1: around with Everest. It's Mount Everest. It kills you, It

853
00:42:57,760 --> 00:42:59,800
Speaker 1: kills people all the time. It doesn't give a fuck.

854
00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:02,360
Speaker 1: The other is his claim that he holds the world

855
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:06,200
Speaker 1: record for longest swim underneath an ice flow without breathing equipment.

856
00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:08,439
Speaker 1: Here is a segment of his response to a twenty

857
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:11,200
Speaker 1: twenty two Guardian interview that gives you an idea of

858
00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:13,840
Speaker 1: how that one tends to sound. There was a moment

859
00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:16,400
Speaker 1: swimming under the ice when I found myself. I lost

860
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:19,279
Speaker 1: my way because my corny is froze underwater. I had

861
00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:21,880
Speaker 1: no goggles on, just shorts holding my breath. I was

862
00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:24,280
Speaker 1: under a meter thick layer of ice in Finland, lost

863
00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:26,440
Speaker 1: and blind, but I never felt like I was drowning,

864
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:29,280
Speaker 1: no panic or pain. I felt at peace and in control.

865
00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:31,680
Speaker 1: That experience brought me so much, and the end of

866
00:43:31,719 --> 00:43:33,880
Speaker 1: safety diver brought me back by pulling me by the

867
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:36,319
Speaker 1: ankles to the exit hole, which I'd passed long ago.

868
00:43:36,680 --> 00:43:38,759
Speaker 1: I did a huge gasp per air when I came up.

869
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:41,319
Speaker 1: In that moment, I conquered the fear of death. Now

870
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:43,879
Speaker 1: I'm not afraid of dying. I'm afraid not to live.

871
00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:45,360
Speaker 2: Fucking me.

872
00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:50,000
Speaker 1: Of course, First off, he didn't need to do that. Second,

873
00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:54,080
Speaker 1: like every other fantastic claim, Whim makes, his recollections here

874
00:43:54,160 --> 00:43:56,600
Speaker 1: do not jive with the record, and it's here that

875
00:43:56,640 --> 00:43:59,440
Speaker 1: I'm going to return to Scott Carney's Miaculpa rite up.

876
00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:02,319
Speaker 1: All was not as it seemed that day. In the

877
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:05,480
Speaker 1: twenty eleven book Becoming the Ice Man, Haff wrote that

878
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:07,840
Speaker 1: he almost died on his first attempt under the ice.

879
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:10,719
Speaker 1: On that try, he ignored his own safety protocols and

880
00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:14,120
Speaker 1: tried to sprint twice the planned distance without telling anyone

881
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:17,759
Speaker 1: on the crew. Afterwards, Hoff claims his eyes froze under

882
00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:19,360
Speaker 1: the water and he lost his way, and that he

883
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:22,240
Speaker 1: was lucky a rescue diver found him after he blacked

884
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:25,400
Speaker 1: out and brought him to the surface. His brother, Marcel,

885
00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:27,759
Speaker 1: who was standing on the ice above him that day,

886
00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:30,759
Speaker 1: remembers it differently. He took it too far and blacked out,

887
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:34,560
Speaker 1: Marcel says. He recalls Hoff performing his staple breathing exercise

888
00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:38,680
Speaker 1: of his method, deliberately hyperventilating just before his underwater swim.

889
00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:41,920
Speaker 1: According to Marcel, it's just as likely that Haff experienced

890
00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:45,279
Speaker 1: shallow water blackout as his failure was to frozen eyeballs.

891
00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:47,120
Speaker 1: There's no reason it couldn't have been both.

892
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:52,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I like, I don't know if this

893
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:56,040
Speaker 2: is a spoiler, but like hyperventilating will cause you to

894
00:44:56,080 --> 00:45:00,000
Speaker 2: have shallow water blackout and so well sprinting underwater. Yeah,

895
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:03,040
Speaker 2: which is why you shouldn't do it. Yeah, absolutely, do

896
00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:04,479
Speaker 2: not do this shit. Yeah.

897
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:08,800
Speaker 1: Be again, the water a lot like Mount Everest, deserves

898
00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:09,560
Speaker 1: your respect.

899
00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:14,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, where supposed to be there. Yeah, we are particularly

900
00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:18,240
Speaker 2: not supposed to be underneath ice sheets. It's very alien

901
00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:21,959
Speaker 2: to us. You must be extremely careful. Yeah. I've watched

902
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:25,400
Speaker 2: Abatatu wave the water and I understand that. I understand

903
00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:28,560
Speaker 2: a lot more now, but yeah, you are not welcome. Well,

904
00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:30,480
Speaker 2: the water is a lovely place and people should go

905
00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:34,560
Speaker 2: underneath it, but like, don't be pushing your limits and hyperventilating.

906
00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:35,719
Speaker 2: I take a course from some.

907
00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:40,960
Speaker 1: Care take training. Go with a group, have rescue equipment available,

908
00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:44,880
Speaker 1: lots of safe ways to be in the water, ways

909
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:47,200
Speaker 1: to mitigate risk, you know, in the water.

910
00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:48,280
Speaker 2: Yeah.

911
00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:50,480
Speaker 1: Yes, if he hadn't had not just a buddy, a

912
00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:54,600
Speaker 1: whole team of people with significant equipment like a diver

913
00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:58,600
Speaker 1: in gear underneath ready right Yeah yeah, and he's still

914
00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:01,200
Speaker 1: very nearly died. Yeah, this is why people.

915
00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:02,680
Speaker 2: I don't know if he took a rope, but like

916
00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:06,439
Speaker 2: people traditionally free diving for recors like rope dive down. Yeah,

917
00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:08,600
Speaker 2: and then they have safety divers at every height to

918
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:10,960
Speaker 2: accompany them in case they prop out. But because he

919
00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:13,759
Speaker 2: goes twice the fucking distance, I don't know when he

920
00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:17,960
Speaker 2: did that or not, Like, yeah, you will die. Yeah.

921
00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:22,160
Speaker 1: So this and numerous videos of him enduring ice water baths,

922
00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:24,520
Speaker 1: spending time fully submerged in ice water, all that kind

923
00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:26,760
Speaker 1: of shit. This is all critical to the wim Hoff

924
00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:30,080
Speaker 1: legend and also the deadliest part of it. And introduce

925
00:46:30,120 --> 00:46:32,000
Speaker 1: this segment. I'm going to quote from an article by

926
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:36,600
Speaker 1: Outside Online August tenth, twenty twenty two. A southern California

927
00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:39,360
Speaker 1: lawyer named Rafael Metzger was at home was at his

928
00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:41,720
Speaker 1: home in Long Beach with his seventeen year old daughter,

929
00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:45,439
Speaker 1: Madeline Rose Metzger. After a busy afternoon a phone calls

930
00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:47,960
Speaker 1: and work, Rafaele left his home office to start dinner.

931
00:46:48,239 --> 00:46:50,719
Speaker 1: He searched the house for Madeline, eventually walking to the

932
00:46:50,719 --> 00:46:52,680
Speaker 1: backyard to see if she was taking a dip in

933
00:46:52,719 --> 00:46:55,799
Speaker 1: the family's swimming pool. He saw her laying face down

934
00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:59,720
Speaker 1: in the water, motionless. Rafael attempted CPR, but to no avail.

935
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:02,400
Speaker 1: Paramedics later arrived at the house and also tried to

936
00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:05,840
Speaker 1: resuscitate her, but she was gone. Two days after the accident,

937
00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:09,000
Speaker 1: a medical examiner from the Los Angeles County Coroner's Office

938
00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:12,120
Speaker 1: told Rafael that Madeleine had died of accidental drowning. Her

939
00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:14,600
Speaker 1: toxicology tests were clean, they said, and there was no

940
00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:18,600
Speaker 1: sign of physical abnormality like a heart arrhythmia. Madeleine put

941
00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:20,439
Speaker 1: on her bathing suit, went to the pool to cool

942
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:23,520
Speaker 1: off and to reduce anxiety following an argument with Tammy Metzger,

943
00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:26,040
Speaker 1: and she did whim hoff breathing. The suit states she

944
00:47:26,120 --> 00:47:30,080
Speaker 1: became hypoxic and thereupon drowned in the shallow water, despite

945
00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:33,960
Speaker 1: being an excellent swimmer. The lawsuit from the Metzger family

946
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:36,880
Speaker 1: accuses Tammy and Hoff of negligence in Madeleine's death. It

947
00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:41,239
Speaker 1: also Levy's charges of fraudulent concealment, unfair business practices, and

948
00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:45,399
Speaker 1: false advertisement against Hoff and Inner Fire. Defendants were either

949
00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:49,240
Speaker 1: aware of or culpably indifferent too unnecessary risks of injury.

950
00:47:49,560 --> 00:47:52,880
Speaker 1: Rafael Metzger is seeking sixty seven million dollars in damages

951
00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:55,600
Speaker 1: and also asking courts to require Hoff to post warnings

952
00:47:55,640 --> 00:47:58,239
Speaker 1: on his website and promotional materials that the method is

953
00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:00,319
Speaker 1: dangerous and should never be done in water due to

954
00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:02,960
Speaker 1: the risk of drowning and death. We were shocked to

955
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:05,439
Speaker 1: hear that such a young girl round and in ham

956
00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:08,759
Speaker 1: Hoff told outside shocked by the allegations, which don't make

957
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:10,120
Speaker 1: any sense to us.

958
00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:15,799
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, it's gonna it's gonna kill you. It's yeah,

959
00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:19,279
Speaker 2: it's somewhat remarkable that I know he has a body count.

960
00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:23,520
Speaker 2: I guess it's very hard to tell how many people

961
00:48:23,640 --> 00:48:27,600
Speaker 2: have died hyperventilating in water, right, like, yeah, yeah, it

962
00:48:27,640 --> 00:48:31,120
Speaker 2: died swimming and free diving often.

963
00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:35,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's hard to know the exact potential body count.

964
00:48:35,600 --> 00:48:38,640
Speaker 1: I think there are something like fourteen or fifteen people

965
00:48:38,680 --> 00:48:43,400
Speaker 1: alleged in lawsuits against Hoff's organization. Currently you'll hear numbers

966
00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:46,880
Speaker 1: between like twelve and fifteen. We're gonna read one more story,

967
00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:51,000
Speaker 1: but first, you know what never gets anyone killed, James.

968
00:48:50,840 --> 00:48:54,400
Speaker 2: I don't think we can safely say that, well it

969
00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:57,000
Speaker 2: dick pills again, because they've got a they've got a

970
00:48:57,040 --> 00:48:57,600
Speaker 2: body count.

971
00:48:58,080 --> 00:49:01,400
Speaker 1: I mean, look, and you call it living if you

972
00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:03,240
Speaker 1: don't have dick pills, that's.

973
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:06,160
Speaker 2: A good question, you know, you got to sometimes it's

974
00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:07,799
Speaker 2: better to have lived the days that you did have.

975
00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:11,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, which is why again, go to the nearest

976
00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:15,040
Speaker 1: truck stop, buy every pill they have and just mix

977
00:49:15,120 --> 00:49:18,680
Speaker 1: them with like some ever clear and some some some

978
00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:19,359
Speaker 1: high sea.

979
00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:20,040
Speaker 2: You know.

980
00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:22,360
Speaker 1: See what happens to see. Yeah, you'll you'll learn a

981
00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:25,879
Speaker 1: lesson about yourself or someone else will. Yes, and someone

982
00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:30,080
Speaker 1: will learn a lesson one hope, Yeah learned. Yeah, you'll

983
00:49:30,120 --> 00:49:31,960
Speaker 1: contribute to humanity's knowledge.

984
00:49:32,320 --> 00:49:37,760
Speaker 2: Here's ads. We're back.

985
00:49:37,960 --> 00:49:39,719
Speaker 1: So I'm going to read one other story of an

986
00:49:39,719 --> 00:49:44,200
Speaker 1: alleged whim Hoff training victim. And this is from US

987
00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:48,239
Speaker 1: Scott Carney's article on Labor Day. In twenty nineteen, Andrew Encinas,

988
00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:51,160
Speaker 1: a twenty seven year old social media entrepreneur, shuttled back

989
00:49:51,160 --> 00:49:53,160
Speaker 1: and forth between his new office to set up his

990
00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:56,040
Speaker 1: desk with a fleet of new computer monitors and the

991
00:49:56,080 --> 00:49:59,440
Speaker 1: party at his brother's house in Anaheim Hills, California. Like

992
00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:02,920
Speaker 1: his business Gary Vaynerchuk in Cinas thrived on the challenge

993
00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:05,239
Speaker 1: of starting a new business and constantly looked for ways

994
00:50:05,239 --> 00:50:08,400
Speaker 1: to optimize his performance. His favorite technique for dealing with

995
00:50:08,440 --> 00:50:11,120
Speaker 1: stress was a breathwork in ice immersion protocol called the

996
00:50:11,120 --> 00:50:13,720
Speaker 1: whim Hoff method. Around six point thirty in the evening,

997
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:15,840
Speaker 1: and Sinus made his last trip back from the office.

998
00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:17,840
Speaker 1: His brother Adam invited him in for ice cream in

999
00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:20,560
Speaker 1: a football game on TV. Sure, he said, but first

1000
00:50:20,600 --> 00:50:22,240
Speaker 1: I want to do my whim Hoff in the pool.

1001
00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:24,520
Speaker 1: He asked to borrow a pair of swim trunks. This

1002
00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:27,120
Speaker 1: wasn't unusual. Over the years in Scenus had learned that

1003
00:50:27,160 --> 00:50:29,920
Speaker 1: the wim Hoff method had an almost miraculous calming effect

1004
00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:32,800
Speaker 1: on his nervous system. He watched videos of Hoff swimming

1005
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:35,920
Speaker 1: under Arctic sea ice and teaching influential social media stars

1006
00:50:35,920 --> 00:50:38,760
Speaker 1: to hyperventilate to the point of passing out in SNAs.

1007
00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:40,960
Speaker 1: Preferred to practice alone and often did four or five

1008
00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:43,680
Speaker 1: rounds of breathing in a single day. Video of Andrew

1009
00:50:43,719 --> 00:50:45,480
Speaker 1: doing the breath work in the water a few months

1010
00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:48,319
Speaker 1: earlier focused on the peaceful expression on his face. He

1011
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:50,520
Speaker 1: texted his friends that the method works really well in

1012
00:50:50,560 --> 00:50:53,120
Speaker 1: the cold. A few minutes after Andrew went in the pool,

1013
00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:55,040
Speaker 1: Adam started to wonder when he would finish up and

1014
00:50:55,040 --> 00:50:58,320
Speaker 1: rejoin the family. Then, according to the coroner's port report

1015
00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:01,280
Speaker 1: filled in Los Angeles County, at the party, noticed Andrew

1016
00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:03,440
Speaker 1: appeared to be sleeping in the shallow end of the pool.

1017
00:51:03,800 --> 00:51:06,200
Speaker 1: Adam ran outside to find his brother in a meditative

1018
00:51:06,239 --> 00:51:08,560
Speaker 1: position underwater, with his hands clasped in front of his

1019
00:51:08,680 --> 00:51:11,560
Speaker 1: chest and unresponsive. Adam dragged Andrew out of the water

1020
00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:14,160
Speaker 1: and performed CPR to get his heart beating again, but

1021
00:51:14,200 --> 00:51:16,680
Speaker 1: when we got to the hospital there was no brain activity.

1022
00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:20,640
Speaker 1: He was already a goner, says Adam and Cinas. So

1023
00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:25,160
Speaker 1: don't do this stuff, Yeah, do not do folks, be

1024
00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:28,880
Speaker 1: very careful. Don't do it in anywhere near water. If

1025
00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:31,640
Speaker 1: you're going to experience with like these TUMO breathing techniques,

1026
00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:34,440
Speaker 1: do them nowhere near water and put a lot of

1027
00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:36,560
Speaker 1: time in between doing them and getting in the water.

1028
00:51:37,400 --> 00:51:40,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, don't even do them, like if you said,

1029
00:51:40,520 --> 00:51:42,520
Speaker 2: if you scuba dive, right, like, you shouldn't be doing

1030
00:51:42,560 --> 00:51:44,720
Speaker 2: any of this within the COVID days of scuba diving.

1031
00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:48,719
Speaker 1: No care, take care. So Wim does warn on his

1032
00:51:48,800 --> 00:51:51,640
Speaker 1: site and in videos these two techniques, the breathing in

1033
00:51:51,640 --> 00:51:53,960
Speaker 1: the cold water immersion, which make up the majority of

1034
00:51:53,960 --> 00:51:57,640
Speaker 1: his teachings, should never be combined. But he also shows

1035
00:51:57,640 --> 00:52:01,000
Speaker 1: off video of himself submerged in water or swimming constantly,

1036
00:52:01,400 --> 00:52:04,160
Speaker 1: and both water and g Tomo breathing are key components

1037
00:52:04,160 --> 00:52:06,120
Speaker 1: of his stick. This is a big part of why

1038
00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:10,240
Speaker 1: reputable scientists and quasi reputable reporters like Scott have backed away.

1039
00:52:10,680 --> 00:52:12,560
Speaker 1: I don't have a lot of respect for Carney after

1040
00:52:12,600 --> 00:52:15,200
Speaker 1: the role he played granting credibility to Hoff, but I

1041
00:52:15,239 --> 00:52:17,360
Speaker 1: will note that his article on the man is about

1042
00:52:17,400 --> 00:52:20,600
Speaker 1: as complete a buddle of him as you are going

1043
00:52:20,640 --> 00:52:22,840
Speaker 1: to find, and it does a good job of showing

1044
00:52:23,120 --> 00:52:26,640
Speaker 1: how Hoff's claims that Interfier warns students away from mixing

1045
00:52:26,680 --> 00:52:30,120
Speaker 1: techniques together do not hold well water. And I'm going

1046
00:52:30,200 --> 00:52:33,520
Speaker 1: to quote from that article again. Hoff's website and YouTube

1047
00:52:33,600 --> 00:52:36,600
Speaker 1: videos do in fact include prominent warnings against performing the

1048
00:52:36,640 --> 00:52:40,040
Speaker 1: breathing method and water. One typical example, a YouTube video

1049
00:52:40,080 --> 00:52:42,759
Speaker 1: that gives Hoff's basic breeding instructions and has sixty six

1050
00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:47,000
Speaker 1: million views, includes this warning in its description exclamation point

1051
00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:49,640
Speaker 1: exclamation point. Don't do the breathing exercises in a swimming

1052
00:52:49,640 --> 00:52:52,960
Speaker 1: pool before going underwater, beneath the shower, or piloting any vehicle.

1053
00:52:53,239 --> 00:52:55,920
Speaker 1: Always practice sitting or lying down in a safe environment.

1054
00:52:56,320 --> 00:52:58,960
Speaker 1: And Hamhoff, Wimhoff's son and the CEO of Interfire, is

1055
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:02,640
Speaker 1: adamant over email well wim Hoff doesn't teach hyperventilation techniques.

1056
00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:04,920
Speaker 1: Within the wim Hoff method, we never teach people to

1057
00:53:04,920 --> 00:53:08,480
Speaker 1: do our specific breathing exercises before submerging in water. We

1058
00:53:08,560 --> 00:53:10,719
Speaker 1: are very careful and protective in teaching people the wim

1059
00:53:10,800 --> 00:53:14,080
Speaker 1: Hoff methods so they practice in a safe environment now,

1060
00:53:14,480 --> 00:53:19,200
Speaker 1: even in places where warnings exist, Hoff simultaneously teaches a

1061
00:53:19,320 --> 00:53:22,640
Speaker 1: veritable recipe for blacking out in water. In numerous instances,

1062
00:53:22,680 --> 00:53:25,880
Speaker 1: he conflates water work and breathwork and abandons safety protocols

1063
00:53:25,880 --> 00:53:28,759
Speaker 1: that he explicitly states are necessary. According to a wim

1064
00:53:28,760 --> 00:53:31,719
Speaker 1: Hoff Method instructor, the training center that Intererfire operates in

1065
00:53:31,760 --> 00:53:35,439
Speaker 1: Poland lacks even basic safety gear like AEDs in case

1066
00:53:35,480 --> 00:53:39,280
Speaker 1: someone's heart stops. During his intensive workshops, the disconnect between

1067
00:53:39,280 --> 00:53:42,120
Speaker 1: what the Hoff organization says and its official capacity and

1068
00:53:42,160 --> 00:53:45,760
Speaker 1: the actual teachings Hoffs gives can be jarring. Take, for instance,

1069
00:53:45,800 --> 00:53:48,279
Speaker 1: the eighth week of his ninety nine dollars class ten

1070
00:53:48,360 --> 00:53:51,200
Speaker 1: week video course. After almost two months of training and

1071
00:53:51,239 --> 00:53:53,800
Speaker 1: breathwork and cold exposure, which work up from very mild

1072
00:53:53,840 --> 00:53:57,120
Speaker 1: practices to ever more intense variations, wim Hoff stands in

1073
00:53:57,120 --> 00:54:00,000
Speaker 1: front of an icy waterfall, alongside an eager, shirtless student

1074
00:54:00,160 --> 00:54:02,880
Speaker 1: and gives some simple instructions. Go into the water, he

1075
00:54:02,920 --> 00:54:05,200
Speaker 1: says in the video, keep go on with the breathing,

1076
00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:08,719
Speaker 1: keep on being focused. Then you sit, then you immersed focused,

1077
00:54:08,760 --> 00:54:11,359
Speaker 1: and you stay in the water. Hoff gives similar sets

1078
00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:13,880
Speaker 1: of instructions various ways three times over the course of

1079
00:54:13,880 --> 00:54:17,160
Speaker 1: the lesson, ultimately hyperventilating in his own characteristic way and

1080
00:54:17,200 --> 00:54:19,280
Speaker 1: then dunking his own head under the water and staying

1081
00:54:19,320 --> 00:54:22,000
Speaker 1: for about a minute. A strange disclaimer in the comet

1082
00:54:22,040 --> 00:54:24,479
Speaker 1: section next to the video appears to contradict what Hoff

1083
00:54:24,560 --> 00:54:27,120
Speaker 1: is doing on screen. It reads the guy in the

1084
00:54:27,160 --> 00:54:29,160
Speaker 1: video was guided by whim to learn to deal with

1085
00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:31,279
Speaker 1: the cold. He's not doing the breathing retention and then

1086
00:54:31,320 --> 00:54:33,880
Speaker 1: putting his head under the water. At the very least,

1087
00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:36,640
Speaker 1: the juxtaposition between the written warning and Hoff's own words

1088
00:54:36,719 --> 00:54:39,719
Speaker 1: is confusing. At worst, it's a dramatic acknowledgment of the

1089
00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:43,080
Speaker 1: sort of negligence that could get someone killed. And that's

1090
00:54:43,120 --> 00:54:47,680
Speaker 1: the whim Hoff story. James magnificent. Yeah, wonderful stuff. Yeah,

1091
00:54:47,920 --> 00:54:50,920
Speaker 1: can'd be doing this? Yeah?

1092
00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:55,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, good times that it's just so like I get,

1093
00:54:56,360 --> 00:54:59,800
Speaker 2: it's such a sad like condemnation of this whole industry,

1094
00:55:00,120 --> 00:55:01,560
Speaker 2: Like here's a guy I will teach you how to

1095
00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:05,959
Speaker 2: breathe and people have paid for that, and sadly people

1096
00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:10,200
Speaker 2: have died. Yeah, it does. It's very calming. I like

1097
00:55:10,239 --> 00:55:14,319
Speaker 2: to free dive. It is the closest. Yeah, I just

1098
00:55:14,320 --> 00:55:15,719
Speaker 2: do a bit of wim Hoffing and then off like that.

1099
00:55:17,440 --> 00:55:19,840
Speaker 2: It's the closest human beings going to get to flying,

1100
00:55:19,880 --> 00:55:22,279
Speaker 2: I think, But no, I do not wim hoff It

1101
00:55:22,400 --> 00:55:24,839
Speaker 2: is bad if it's like a joke. It's a standing joke.

1102
00:55:24,920 --> 00:55:26,719
Speaker 2: If you go free diving with someone new for the

1103
00:55:26,760 --> 00:55:29,399
Speaker 2: first time, like go out there and you still go

1104
00:55:31,320 --> 00:55:33,560
Speaker 2: it just wants a dude look at you, like like

1105
00:55:33,560 --> 00:55:34,759
Speaker 2: what if I got myself in for?

1106
00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:35,080
Speaker 4: You know?

1107
00:55:36,320 --> 00:55:39,239
Speaker 1: So, James, I wanted to end by reading a couple

1108
00:55:39,239 --> 00:55:42,400
Speaker 1: of little things I found in this listicle about wim Hoffs,

1109
00:55:42,520 --> 00:55:43,960
Speaker 1: because there's some fun ones in here.

1110
00:55:44,719 --> 00:55:44,959
Speaker 2: Wait.

1111
00:55:45,760 --> 00:55:48,240
Speaker 1: Number one is the claim that wim learned to control

1112
00:55:48,239 --> 00:55:51,279
Speaker 1: his heart rate in university. Quote and it wasn't even

1113
00:55:51,320 --> 00:55:56,239
Speaker 1: part of his curriculum. Here's a quote from this very

1114
00:55:56,280 --> 00:56:00,840
Speaker 1: reputable article, James. When the Reddit user futbucker twenty four four.

1115
00:56:01,239 --> 00:56:02,239
Speaker 2: Asked whim.

1116
00:56:04,760 --> 00:56:07,200
Speaker 1: Asked Whim when he learned to control his heart rate.

1117
00:56:07,239 --> 00:56:11,080
Speaker 1: Whim replied, in university by measurement. Can you picture it?

1118
00:56:11,280 --> 00:56:12,560
Speaker 1: When most students were.

1119
00:56:12,400 --> 00:56:14,800
Speaker 2: Desperately trying to make their way through an economics textbook

1120
00:56:14,880 --> 00:56:17,560
Speaker 2: or recover from a grueling hangover, Wim was spending his

1121
00:56:17,640 --> 00:56:21,040
Speaker 2: days learning to control his heart rate. Very impressive.

1122
00:56:21,080 --> 00:56:25,840
Speaker 1: Fut futbucker or butt fut bucker, Yeah bucker, thank you,

1123
00:56:26,280 --> 00:56:26,920
Speaker 1: thank you for that.

1124
00:56:27,040 --> 00:56:27,360
Speaker 2: Question.

1125
00:56:28,040 --> 00:56:32,279
Speaker 1: Number thirteen is Wim doesn't need psychedelics because he can

1126
00:56:32,320 --> 00:56:39,640
Speaker 1: trigger his own dmd gland. In Whim's ama, he was asked, Hi, Wim,

1127
00:56:39,840 --> 00:56:41,440
Speaker 1: do you or have you ever used any kind of

1128
00:56:41,480 --> 00:56:43,920
Speaker 1: drug to find deeper consciousness in order to control your

1129
00:56:43,960 --> 00:56:47,160
Speaker 1: autonomic nervous system. His response, No, not at all. I

1130
00:56:47,200 --> 00:56:49,600
Speaker 1: can trigger my own DMT or hormone driven from the

1131
00:56:49,640 --> 00:56:51,759
Speaker 1: pineal gland. I know how to get there and can

1132
00:56:51,800 --> 00:56:53,920
Speaker 1: do that all the time. You have better control over

1133
00:56:53,960 --> 00:56:56,360
Speaker 1: the hormonal system. You don't need drugs to be drugged

1134
00:56:56,360 --> 00:57:02,400
Speaker 1: out by yourself in a natural way. Fuck me, Whim,

1135
00:57:02,960 --> 00:57:05,719
Speaker 1: I will take d MT with you, and I guarantee

1136
00:57:05,960 --> 00:57:07,799
Speaker 1: it will fuck you up in a way that you

1137
00:57:07,840 --> 00:57:09,239
Speaker 1: cannot fuck yourself up.

1138
00:57:09,320 --> 00:57:11,719
Speaker 2: I will promise you that, my friend, Well, where do

1139
00:57:11,719 --> 00:57:13,200
Speaker 2: you think the DMT comes from? But you go to

1140
00:57:13,200 --> 00:57:15,840
Speaker 2: obviously from the gland. That's right, That's how I get it,

1141
00:57:16,280 --> 00:57:21,160
Speaker 2: from the gland of a Dutchman. Yeah, get kill a

1142
00:57:21,280 --> 00:57:24,800
Speaker 2: Dutchman instead. Much more ethical than a giraffe. There's plenty

1143
00:57:24,840 --> 00:57:28,880
Speaker 2: a Dutchman. Yep, they're not a rare species. So yeah,

1144
00:57:29,080 --> 00:57:32,400
Speaker 2: no shortage. Had the harvested d MT from the d

1145
00:57:32,600 --> 00:57:36,720
Speaker 2: stands for Dutch, Yeah, yeah, M stands for man. I

1146
00:57:36,720 --> 00:57:41,080
Speaker 2: don't know what the stands for. Yeah, I do. I

1147
00:57:41,120 --> 00:57:43,760
Speaker 2: hate the article. Author of that stupid article, John Brooks.

1148
00:57:43,800 --> 00:57:46,320
Speaker 2: I do want to read you his bio, even though

1149
00:57:46,360 --> 00:57:48,480
Speaker 2: it's a little bit of an aside. John Brooks is

1150
00:57:48,480 --> 00:57:53,160
Speaker 2: a stoicism teacher and crucially practitioner. His stoic meditations have

1151
00:57:53,200 --> 00:57:55,640
Speaker 2: accumulated thousands of listens, and he has created his own

1152
00:57:55,680 --> 00:57:59,240
Speaker 2: stoic training program from modern day Stoics. Well, it's one

1153
00:57:59,240 --> 00:58:01,080
Speaker 2: of the things about stow this is they really thrive

1154
00:58:01,160 --> 00:58:05,800
Speaker 2: on how many people download their podcast. Very stoic. Nothing

1155
00:58:05,840 --> 00:58:09,320
Speaker 2: more stoic than noting your thousands of listeners. You're getting

1156
00:58:09,320 --> 00:58:10,280
Speaker 2: to add revenue.

1157
00:58:10,560 --> 00:58:12,880
Speaker 1: God, and I've never seen stoic use more in a

1158
00:58:12,920 --> 00:58:14,120
Speaker 1: sentence three times.

1159
00:58:14,360 --> 00:58:16,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, we got to get the seo up. It's another

1160
00:58:16,680 --> 00:58:18,040
Speaker 2: big element of stoicism.

1161
00:58:18,320 --> 00:58:20,560
Speaker 1: It's one of those things like stoicism. You want to

1162
00:58:20,600 --> 00:58:24,720
Speaker 1: read like ancient Greek stoics perfectly fine. People who talk

1163
00:58:24,760 --> 00:58:27,480
Speaker 1: about being stoics one hundred percent of the time very

1164
00:58:27,520 --> 00:58:28,680
Speaker 1: frustrating human gests.

1165
00:58:28,760 --> 00:58:30,560
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, it's just like people who talk about reading

1166
00:58:30,560 --> 00:58:32,680
Speaker 2: infinite jest. Yes, cos. Yeah.

1167
00:58:32,800 --> 00:58:37,080
Speaker 1: For people who will like call themselves utilitarians, like, oh.

1168
00:58:36,480 --> 00:58:38,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's a bad end to you.

1169
00:58:38,760 --> 00:58:41,040
Speaker 1: That is you are You are not talking about the

1170
00:58:41,120 --> 00:58:43,640
Speaker 1: actual attempt to determine the greatest good for the greatest

1171
00:58:43,720 --> 00:58:46,440
Speaker 1: number of people. You are trying to justify cheating on

1172
00:58:46,480 --> 00:58:51,280
Speaker 1: your girlfriend. Is that is what's going on in this story?

1173
00:58:51,480 --> 00:58:55,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, and hopefully someone plays football with your head too

1174
00:58:55,360 --> 00:59:02,280
Speaker 2: as it did. Yeah, anyway, James, anything to plug well

1175
00:59:02,480 --> 00:59:05,040
Speaker 2: after that, Buddy, I not holding your breath underwater?

1176
00:59:05,520 --> 00:59:09,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, don't hold your breath under water. Don't hyperventilate, you know, well,

1177
00:59:10,000 --> 00:59:12,160
Speaker 1: you can hold your breath underwater sometimes if you do

1178
00:59:12,200 --> 00:59:13,000
Speaker 1: it the right way.

1179
00:59:13,400 --> 00:59:17,920
Speaker 2: Fast, sensible. Yeah, there's a Fena Feinae office, one Addie Office,

1180
00:59:17,920 --> 00:59:21,000
Speaker 2: one f Fi offer one free diving glasses. You can

1181
00:59:21,040 --> 00:59:24,640
Speaker 2: take them. Yeah, what else do I have to plug? Yes?

1182
00:59:25,480 --> 00:59:28,640
Speaker 2: I have a book already and you can find it

1183
00:59:28,680 --> 00:59:30,720
Speaker 2: by going to the library and saying this, dude, James

1184
00:59:30,720 --> 00:59:33,120
Speaker 2: stat has written a book. It's called The Popular Front

1185
00:59:33,160 --> 00:59:36,680
Speaker 2: of nineteen thirty six Popular Olympics. And they will order

1186
00:59:36,720 --> 00:59:39,560
Speaker 2: it for you and you will have to pay and yeah,

1187
00:59:39,560 --> 00:59:41,880
Speaker 2: and it could happen here. You can hear. In a

1188
00:59:41,880 --> 00:59:44,680
Speaker 2: few weeks I will do a podcast which involves me

1189
00:59:44,720 --> 00:59:49,840
Speaker 2: talking about holding my breath underwater in a non fatal way. Yeah,

1190
00:59:49,920 --> 00:59:51,840
Speaker 2: and going to the Marshall Islands to do it. Yeah.

1191
00:59:52,640 --> 00:59:57,080
Speaker 1: And you can find me when I eventually have my

1192
00:59:57,200 --> 00:59:58,680
Speaker 1: fist fight with whim half.

1193
00:59:59,560 --> 01:00:03,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, in Mark Zuckerbug's garden. In Mark Zuckerberg's garden.

1194
01:00:04,240 --> 01:00:04,439
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1195
01:00:04,440 --> 01:00:08,360
Speaker 2: I bet on you, Robert, thank you. Yeah, we all are.

1196
01:00:08,400 --> 01:00:11,120
Speaker 2: I betting on malaria to be the real Yeah.

1197
01:00:11,520 --> 01:00:13,840
Speaker 1: That might be if he gets infected. You know that

1198
01:00:13,920 --> 01:00:14,760
Speaker 1: might be me too.

1199
01:00:15,360 --> 01:00:15,560
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1200
01:00:15,960 --> 01:00:16,160
Speaker 4: I know.

1201
01:00:16,200 --> 01:00:18,000
Speaker 2: I've seen how you deal with someone who's in the

1202
01:00:18,160 --> 01:00:20,960
Speaker 2: in the grips of gastro intestinal distress. Robert, I think

1203
01:00:21,000 --> 01:00:25,960
Speaker 2: you could. Yeah, Robert and I have had some times.

1204
01:00:26,240 --> 01:00:28,760
Speaker 2: You should have bought that second charm James, Yeah, I

1205
01:00:28,760 --> 01:00:30,600
Speaker 2: should have done, man. I didn't have enough meet your

1206
01:00:30,640 --> 01:00:37,920
Speaker 2: rights on me that day as a result. Yeah, that

1207
01:00:38,120 --> 01:00:44,880
Speaker 2: was funny. Are not familiar. Robert and I went on

1208
01:00:44,920 --> 01:00:47,160
Speaker 2: a reporting trip to Thailand to cover the civil war.

1209
01:00:47,240 --> 01:00:49,880
Speaker 1: After after like two weeks, I was like, you know what,

1210
01:00:49,920 --> 01:00:51,760
Speaker 1: I'm going to get us a nice night at a

1211
01:00:51,880 --> 01:00:54,200
Speaker 1: very nice hotel. I'm already it in Bangkok. You know,

1212
01:00:54,240 --> 01:00:55,840
Speaker 1: we'll have like a little bit of luxury on our

1213
01:00:55,880 --> 01:00:58,200
Speaker 1: way out. James gets sick on the way in and

1214
01:00:58,320 --> 01:01:00,840
Speaker 1: just hurls in the park warking lot of one of

1215
01:01:00,920 --> 01:01:03,640
Speaker 1: the nicest hotels, and Banker and you.

1216
01:01:03,680 --> 01:01:07,360
Speaker 4: Both, you both were separately messaging me about.

1217
01:01:07,080 --> 01:01:13,120
Speaker 2: It, and it was so funny. It was like chances like,

1218
01:01:13,520 --> 01:01:16,400
Speaker 2: I don't think I'm gonna diet. Robert's like, he fucking

1219
01:01:16,520 --> 01:01:19,640
Speaker 2: did it. He made it. It was the nicest hotel.

1220
01:01:19,840 --> 01:01:21,080
Speaker 2: I'm so proud of him.

1221
01:01:22,040 --> 01:01:22,840
Speaker 3: It was beautiful.

1222
01:01:23,080 --> 01:01:25,560
Speaker 2: An analogy in waiting for them to give us our roof,

1223
01:01:26,120 --> 01:01:28,320
Speaker 2: it was so funny. I got it. I'll give it

1224
01:01:28,400 --> 01:01:28,880
Speaker 2: up to them.

1225
01:01:28,920 --> 01:01:31,280
Speaker 1: You know, the Lamridian staff must have seen some ship

1226
01:01:31,320 --> 01:01:32,720
Speaker 1: because they didn't not.

1227
01:01:38,320 --> 01:01:40,200
Speaker 2: And then I think the best part of this was

1228
01:01:40,200 --> 01:01:42,080
Speaker 2: that Robbert had thought we got a sweet with two

1229
01:01:42,160 --> 01:01:44,200
Speaker 2: rooms in fact, in fact, it was one big room

1230
01:01:44,200 --> 01:01:46,560
Speaker 2: with a frosted glass bathroom. So you got to watch

1231
01:01:46,600 --> 01:01:55,800
Speaker 2: my shadow. That's Harmon had a good time. Yeah. Shout

1232
01:01:55,840 --> 01:01:57,520
Speaker 2: out to the old lady who gave me a shopping

1233
01:01:57,560 --> 01:02:00,760
Speaker 2: bag because I filled up all the vomit bags on

1234
01:02:00,840 --> 01:02:06,680
Speaker 2: the flight. Yeah right, Yeah. Things we do for journalism,

1235
01:02:06,960 --> 01:02:11,520
Speaker 2: The things we do for journalism anyway, like and subscribe. Yeah,

1236
01:02:11,680 --> 01:02:13,920
Speaker 2: you can go to cooler Zone Media to get this

1237
01:02:14,000 --> 01:02:16,320
Speaker 2: without ads. You can buy my book After the Revolution.

1238
01:02:16,600 --> 01:02:18,880
Speaker 2: It's wherever books are, or you can get it free

1239
01:02:18,920 --> 01:02:21,600
Speaker 2: at a library, or you can find it free at

1240
01:02:22,000 --> 01:02:23,640
Speaker 2: atrbook dot com.

1241
01:02:24,080 --> 01:02:26,520
Speaker 1: Whatever. Live your life, Motherfuckers.

1242
01:02:28,960 --> 01:02:31,920
Speaker 4: Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.

1243
01:02:32,040 --> 01:02:33,000
Speaker 2: For more from cool Zone

1244
01:02:33,040 --> 01:02:37,240
Speaker 4: Media, visit our website coolzonemedia dot com or check us

1245
01:02:37,240 --> 01:02:40,240
Speaker 4: out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

1246
01:02:40,280 --> 01:02:41,240
Speaker 4: get your podcasts.