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Speaker 1: Hey guys, it's the Dog Days of May at the

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Speaker 1: metior dot com. Come back here, cat, We're having a

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Speaker 1: lot of extra podcast drops articles all about dogs, hunt

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Speaker 1: with dogs, nothing about cats. Tune in now.

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Speaker 2: If this is the me Eater podcast coming at you, shirtless, severely,

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Speaker 2: bug bitten, and in my case, underwear listening podcast, you

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Speaker 2: can't predict anything.

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Speaker 1: The Meat Eater Podcast is brought to you by first Light.

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Speaker 1: Whether you're checking trail cams, hanging deer stands, or scouting

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Speaker 1: for ELK, First Light has performance apparel to support every

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Speaker 1: hunter in every environment. Check it out at first light

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Speaker 1: dot com. F I R S T L I t

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Speaker 1: E dot com. Join Today by Jefferson Fisher. I'm excited

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Speaker 1: you're here, man. You know, it was mostly excited to

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Speaker 1: hear is Krin listen to this?

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Speaker 3: You know?

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Speaker 1: Do you know this story?

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Speaker 3: I kind of just told him, but she knew.

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Speaker 1: I was like, Hey, I want to get this, dude,

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Speaker 1: Jefferson Fisher on and so it's in her mind and

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Speaker 1: in her notes. Meanwhile, she's listening to a podcast what's

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Speaker 1: it called Diary Diary of a CEO, and you're on it.

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Speaker 1: But she doesn't make the connection. She likes it so

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Speaker 1: much she listens to it twice and shares it with people,

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Speaker 1: and then one day she's like, oh, wow, that's the

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Speaker 1: dude we're having on.

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Speaker 4: I thought there were too Jefferson Fisher.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, there's a lot of us, tons of us.

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Speaker 1: Well, yeah, we're always like kicking around so many names.

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Speaker 1: It's hard, you know what I mean. Yeah, we got like,

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Speaker 1: oh what about you know, maybe this guy be cool,

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Speaker 1: this is whatever. So she's like sort of in her head,

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Speaker 1: is this thing I asked about when your book comes out? Yes,

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Speaker 1: and then at the same time she's listening to you,

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Speaker 1: and then one day has a like, oh that's the dude.

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Speaker 5: Well thank you Krin.

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Speaker 3: Yeah you bet.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm honored to be here. This is the one

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Speaker 5: like I was super nerding out about that I got

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Speaker 5: to be on this podcast.

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Speaker 1: Jefferson Fisher is a by training a trial attorney from Texas,

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Speaker 1: but he just published his first book called The Next

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Speaker 1: Conversation Argue Less talk more. He's a hunter. I got

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Speaker 1: turned on to him. We have we're with the same

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Speaker 1: literary agency right Europa. That's right now where I've been

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Speaker 1: with Mark at Europa. As I was just turning earlier

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Speaker 1: for over twenty years.

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Speaker 5: Yeah. Mark is fantastic, and.

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Speaker 1: He's the one that kind of like found me and

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Speaker 1: moved me from magazine writing into books.

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Speaker 5: So he was the one. Oh yeah, okay. So Tess,

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Speaker 5: who is kind of his proteges works under him, is

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Speaker 5: the one who found me. And she emailed me, just

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Speaker 5: a cold email, and I'd had several others, but this

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Speaker 5: whatever reason, I read hers and the subject line was literally,

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Speaker 5: hello from a literary agent, like that was their subject line.

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Speaker 1: Let's pick up line exactly.

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Speaker 5: And so I had seen a few and I looked

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Speaker 5: it up and I saw, of course you go to

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Speaker 5: see they represent and I saw your name and I

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Speaker 5: was like, no way, And because your name was on it,

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Speaker 5: I said, yes, I'll I'll go with y'all because I mean.

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Speaker 1: Like a commission exactly.

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Speaker 5: You need to talk to Mark about it, honestly, Yeah,

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Speaker 5: because I pretty much said anything was Meat Eater. I

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Speaker 5: was buying. I think I bought every book. I've watched

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Speaker 5: every episode. Yeah, I got I got the bench Maade

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Speaker 5: Meat Eater, and I like I was, I was like yeah,

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Speaker 5: man uh. And so it was a huge influence of

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Speaker 5: like when I talked to Tess and I was said,

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Speaker 5: y'all really represent uh Ranella and she's like, oh yeah,

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Speaker 5: he's He's great, and then talked about Danielle I followed

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Speaker 5: her before all of her cooking stuff and yeah, and

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Speaker 5: so to be here is just super full circle for me. Man,

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Speaker 5: that's awesome. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I got turned on to Jefferson about watching his that

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Speaker 1: this fellow we talked about shared his video series with me.

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Speaker 1: Where you sit in your car, Well, tell what you

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Speaker 1: do talk about your video say.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, so I I this.

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Speaker 1: Is good because let me everyone listening this, this is

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Speaker 1: highly We're going to demonstrate, this is highly relevant to

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Speaker 1: your life. How to communicate. Okay, but also we're going

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Speaker 1: to learn today how to communicate in the trickiest hunting

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Speaker 1: and fishing scenarios that people encounter, so how to navigate

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Speaker 1: the awkward parts. But also you can use this. You

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Speaker 1: don't call them tricks, do you?

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Speaker 3: No?

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Speaker 1: Never, You're not like playing mind games.

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Speaker 5: No, I mean I guess you could say they are.

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Speaker 1: I mean you'll use these tricks on your wife too.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, if you and just don't share this episode with her, yeah,

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Speaker 5: oh yeah don't.

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Speaker 1: Yeah that's a good point man. Yeah, if you're listening

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Speaker 1: with your wife in a car right now, change it

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Speaker 1: exactly because later, when you start influencing her heavy duty,

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Speaker 1: she's gonna know that. She's gonna be like, you're doing

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Speaker 1: that from the podcast.

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Speaker 6: It's interesting because if you're if you're writing on this subject,

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Speaker 6: you do don't want your reach to expand so far

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Speaker 6: that your readers are using it on themselves and then

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Speaker 6: all of a sudden it becomes resolete.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: I get a lot of comments of people saying, I'm

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Speaker 5: using this on my husband or my wife, and I

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Speaker 5: don't tell them, and so I'll have people that will say,

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Speaker 5: or a couple. I'll have like a mom or a

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Speaker 5: dad say I'm using this on my wife. And they

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Speaker 5: asked me the day like are you is that from

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Speaker 5: that attorney guy?

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Speaker 1: Exactly?

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Speaker 5: Like I saw that video too, Like I know what

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Speaker 5: you're I know what you're trying to do.

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Speaker 4: All I can think about is the these aren't the

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Speaker 4: druids you're looking for?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: Is there a hand mode gesture involved? Subtle on?

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Speaker 5: I'd be honest if it was still very much the

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Speaker 5: Jedi one that you're using just.

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Speaker 1: Right in motion. Yeah. So the video, Yeah, the videos

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Speaker 1: you made? Yeah, I make videos.

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Speaker 5: I started making videos in my car, so full time

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Speaker 5: practicing trial attorney, and I left a big defense from

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Speaker 5: that was at and then started my own and I thought, well,

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Speaker 5: I need to be on social media, and so I

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Speaker 5: started making videos and I thought, I need to have

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Speaker 5: the perfect light's the perfect camera, and so I thought,

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Speaker 5: I'll just I got my truck, I got my car,

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Speaker 5: kids car seat in the back. I'll just make it

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Speaker 5: where I'm at. And uh, I thought, well, what I

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Speaker 5: need to do. I just tell them what I feel like.

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Speaker 5: I know that's how to help people argue and communicate.

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Speaker 5: And so I got my phone and said how to

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Speaker 5: Argue like a Lawyer, Part one, and then by like

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Speaker 5: the fourth video, it had gone viral and then it

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Speaker 5: blew up that quick, yeah, really quick, five million followers

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Speaker 5: I have. Yeah, I think we're today. I think I

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Speaker 5: think we'll hit six million today on Instagram and we

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Speaker 5: have about twelve million total on across the platform.

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Speaker 1: And obviously at arguing, Yeah, what the whole world's gonna

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Speaker 1: be good at arguing?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah exactly, Yeah, everybody's could be great. So yeah,

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Speaker 5: so I've been doing it for a little over two

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Speaker 5: years now.

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Speaker 4: You started eating video with something catchy like have you

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Speaker 4: recently been exposed to that's exactly right.

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Speaker 5: Okay, yeah, yeah, messima as best to solid Yeah, exactly

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Speaker 5: exactly call this, that's exactly right.

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Speaker 1: Your But your video series wasn't meant to The objective

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Speaker 1: wasn't to drum up lawyer business.

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Speaker 5: No, it never was. And so I found that when

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Speaker 5: I was talking about the law, like the first few

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Speaker 5: videos I made just to kind of see how Instagram work,

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Speaker 5: because it used to not. They didn't always have video.

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Speaker 5: I mean video was only to compete with TikTok, and

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Speaker 5: I didn't really like it. I just I felt like

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Speaker 5: it was trying to sell stuff to everybody. So when

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Speaker 5: I started my how to argue like lawyer, it would

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Speaker 5: be like how to have a difficult conversation Number one,

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Speaker 5: do this too, and do this, three to do this,

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Speaker 5: and then that was it. And then those just started

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Speaker 5: to really people became where they would say I I

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Speaker 5: binge them, where they would just go video after video

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Speaker 5: after video, and I never saw any of this. I

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Speaker 5: just considered this kind of a hobby and I would

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Speaker 5: do it for about thirty minutes after work, between work

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Speaker 5: and home, and that's how it happened.

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Speaker 1: This has not doing anything. But you know I'm binging

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Speaker 1: right now because my wife turned me on to it

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Speaker 1: last night. Is this dude that this dude that sings,

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Speaker 1: he does like a male and female role of singing

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Speaker 1: the most like graphic, awkward, tender exchange.

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Speaker 4: Exactly who you're talking So it's.

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Speaker 1: So it's so graphic that I'm not going to name

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Speaker 1: yeah who he is because I don't want to be complicit.

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Speaker 5: Well, you gonna have to share that with you because

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Speaker 5: that was so funny.

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Speaker 1: I love some of these like very very uh the

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Speaker 1: unusual distinct requests.

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Speaker 5: Oh, there's no doubt, there's no doubt. And what I

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Speaker 5: love so much about this it's just not the videos

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Speaker 5: that are great now, it's the comments are hilarious, Like

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Speaker 5: you'll go to content just to read the comments. You know,

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Speaker 5: people are hilarious. That's my favorite part about But that's

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Speaker 5: how we got started in all of this, was just

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Speaker 5: the videos in the car.

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Speaker 1: What was your first exposure to hunting as a kid.

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Speaker 5: Ah, My dad would take me probably six or seven,

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Speaker 5: go duck hunting, put me on his shoulders while he

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Speaker 5: was waiting. So we down in Texas, down in Texas,

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Speaker 5: so we have a few different properties, and this one

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Speaker 5: is Touches. Both the Angelina and the Naches River are

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Speaker 5: there below Lake Sam Rayburn.

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Speaker 1: Is that how you say it from if you're from there,

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Speaker 1: Naches Nachus?

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: In Montana, we say yeah, what's.

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Speaker 5: Inn e c h Yes, yeh.

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Speaker 1: I only care about what people for me. The final

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Speaker 1: word is what is the dude that lives there? Yeah?

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Speaker 5: Exactly, Yeah, being Angelina and n Yeah. Yeah. And so

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Speaker 5: there's a it's just a marsh out there, and so

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Speaker 5: we would he would take me and we'd shoot or

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Speaker 5: he would shoot uh wood ducks and then really yeah,

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Speaker 5: and then I'll get taken to go goose hun. We

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Speaker 5: go goose hunt every year, almost every year of my life,

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Speaker 5: we've gone goose something down in Eagle Lake, which is

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Speaker 5: not too far from Katie Houston, west of Houston, big

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Speaker 5: Rice Fields. And I was kind of the substitute dog,

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Speaker 5: you know, I was did they go find out exactly?

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Speaker 5: And there was nothing more exciting. I mean, I would

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Speaker 5: just take off to go finally and so come back

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Speaker 5: with the geese. And then I think starting about eight

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Speaker 5: was the first time I actually started deer hunting with

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Speaker 5: the rifle and so early yeah, wait, way early, and

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Speaker 5: then I can I switched to bow hunting probably when

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Speaker 5: I was about fourteen to fifteen, switch switched. Yeah, hung

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Speaker 5: up the gun, no, I mean, yeah, yeah, that's that's

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Speaker 5: the difference.

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Speaker 1: That's my first question. Avid bow hunters. No, not to

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Speaker 1: tack on age like people the only hunt with the bow. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: My first question is, yeah, like a felony, you got

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Speaker 1: you got something, you got something.

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Speaker 6: You just run down all the questions on the four

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Speaker 6: four seventh. Exactly have you ever renounced the United States citizenship?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly, No, no, not. I did not hang it

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Speaker 5: up for good. No, I just that was the first

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Speaker 5: time I really took up the bow and had a

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Speaker 5: whole lot of fun with it when I was probably

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Speaker 5: about fourteen fifteen, raight before I started driving.

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Speaker 1: So that's where you're at now. Yeah, bo, your avid

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Speaker 1: boat hunter now, yeah, bow.

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Speaker 5: Hunter for sure, but also a gun gets the job done.

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Speaker 5: So I'm not one of those that My grandfather is

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Speaker 5: very much only bow he got to wear because he

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Speaker 5: couldn't pull it back because he had shoulder surgery. He

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Speaker 5: did it with his teeth.

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Speaker 1: Oh want you guys buy him across bow. That's what

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Speaker 1: we did. We did.

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Speaker 5: We got him cross bow eventually because he was losing

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Speaker 5: to me teeth. He started losing to me teeth, and

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Speaker 5: so we're like, I said, Papa John, we got to

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Speaker 5: do something. So now he's now he's got a crossbow

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Speaker 5: that he steps on and pulls it back, and so

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Speaker 5: he's one of these he'll hunt un till he can't

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Speaker 5: hunt anymore. We actually just had a goose hunt up

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Speaker 5: in Lubbock, and that was the first time that he

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Speaker 5: didn't get it. He just couldn't get his gun up. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: and that was like, really that was really hard. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: that was like really really hard on him to realize

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Speaker 5: he couldn't get it up fast enough. M So, but yeah,

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Speaker 5: hunting has been part of my home up.

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Speaker 4: Sounds like he's a good hunter though, because we recently

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Speaker 4: hunted with a bunch of guys all in a big

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Speaker 4: field set up this winter and there are two older

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Speaker 4: guys out there, yea, and they were having a hard

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Speaker 4: time being on time, right, But eventually they were like, well,

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Speaker 4: I'll screw the rest of you. And you'd look down

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Speaker 4: the line. Everybody's all covered up, and you'd look down

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Speaker 4: the line and they'd just be up like that.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, that's awesome.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: See, he he was definitely the one that in our

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Speaker 5: family that kept set the tone for the hunting. And yeah,

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Speaker 5: he's done. I mean every hunt in Africa he's done,

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Speaker 5: Moose up in Alaska, he's done. Bear, he's done. I

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Speaker 5: mean he's caribou, you name it. That's like his that's

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Speaker 5: his thing.

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Speaker 1: I like that you began your book. It's bold you

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Speaker 1: begin your book with a hunting story, right.

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Speaker 5: I was curious how that was going to be taken.

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Speaker 1: Well, yeah, because you could do it and a lot

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Speaker 1: of guys would be like, they'd be like, wow, I

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Speaker 1: don't want to do that because it might turn people

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Speaker 1: on exactly, which you know whatever. But yeah, So I

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Speaker 1: always like to applaud people who are just like, hang

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Speaker 1: it out there. I had a guy I still want

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Speaker 1: to say, Well, I guess I could say his name.

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Speaker 5: Now.

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Speaker 1: I had a guy one time call me. He was

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Speaker 1: married to a very famous singer.

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Speaker 5: Okay, what genre did he make? Videos?

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Speaker 1: On the under exchange he called He's trying to get

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Speaker 1: hold me one time, like passes the messages you want

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Speaker 1: to sew it's just like to tell me and he

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Speaker 1: tells me flat out. He's a closeted hunter and he

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Speaker 1: says he has a game room that you wouldn't know

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Speaker 1: was in his house unless he took it to it

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Speaker 1: because he can't let anybody know because the business he's

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Speaker 1: in and the business's wife's in.

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Speaker 5: Wow. Well, I mean I can understand it, but yeah,

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Speaker 5: that's the I mean, I can, I can relate to

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Speaker 5: that to a little bit, but I don't.

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Speaker 1: Want to betray his trust. Yeah, with one phone call,

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Speaker 1: He's like he had to tell somebody. I was like,

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Speaker 1: I kept thinking there was gonna be like a thing

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Speaker 1: in the end, like do you want to be a

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Speaker 1: pop singer?

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Speaker 4: I don't know.

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Speaker 3: You got to put out a hotline confessions to Snake

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Speaker 3: so people feel better.

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Speaker 1: I like to pull a trigger now and then I

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Speaker 1: mean I understand, buddy.

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Speaker 7: That satisfying for anything.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I was puzzled though I thought there I

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Speaker 1: was just waiting for I thought there's more to the story,

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Speaker 1: but I'm not being it. I gotta tell. I gotta

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Speaker 1: tell two quick stories I think are pretty funny. You'll

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Speaker 1: have to bear with because they're about a guy you

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Speaker 1: don't know what everybody else knows them. That's fine, you know,

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Speaker 1: Doug Darren I just can't. Every year I take my

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Speaker 1: kids since my little boy was four, My fourteen year

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Speaker 1: old was four. The first time he went there was

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Speaker 1: awesome to hunt Turkey's at Doug's place. Now we go

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Speaker 1: during the kiddie season. It's two day long kids season,

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Speaker 1: so we go over here. We're just at Doug's place

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Speaker 1: and Doug anybody's hung out with them, like is like, uh,

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Speaker 1: his adamant that people like he backs in his car

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Speaker 1: no matter what. He doesn't call it backing and pointing out.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, when I didn't on his property, he like called

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Speaker 3: me out for it.

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Speaker 1: That was the first time I discovered, you know what

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Speaker 1: it comes from. So his his great Tampa or know,

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Speaker 1: his dad got attacked by his own chainsaw one time

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Speaker 1: and had to drive himself to like het himself in

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Speaker 1: the brisket with the chainsaw good and drove himself to

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Speaker 1: a hospital. So Doug's telling he's telling my kids the story.

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Speaker 1: And even and even though Doug's dad manages to get

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Speaker 1: in his car and drive all the way to the hospital,

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Speaker 1: Doug explains my kids, if he had the backed in,

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Speaker 1: he'd be dead, wouldn't It's like Doug, And then he

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Speaker 1: like got in the car and made it to the hospital.

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Speaker 1: But backing out would have been the end of that

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Speaker 1: would have been.

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Speaker 6: I'm sure that it was the observation of the physician

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Speaker 6: that treated him.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I was like, thank god, it's fine to tell

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Speaker 1: my kids to back in, but you don't need to

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Speaker 1: like at he had backed in, he'd be dead.

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Speaker 7: I associate that with volunteer firemen. All the volunteer firemen,

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Speaker 7: I know they back in because if they get a

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Speaker 7: fire call, they want to be out of there as

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Speaker 7: quick as possible.

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Speaker 5: Yeah. So somebody who one of my best friends, he's

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Speaker 5: now the CEO of the my law firm, and he

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Speaker 5: always backs in. That comes from law enforcement. He's been

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Speaker 5: a law enforcement his whole life. So that's just ingrained

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Speaker 5: to him to.

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Speaker 1: I try to do it. I try to do it,

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Speaker 1: but I get lazy now. But you know, like about it.

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Speaker 1: Either way, you got to back out at some point.

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Speaker 5: I I it's like you just you either do it

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Speaker 5: at the beginning or you do it at the end.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll try to like do that the other point.

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Speaker 1: This is the end of my my things about Doug.

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Speaker 1: But Doug, my buddy Dog's got a buddy keeper and Uh.

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Speaker 1: They're talking about another guy getting caught up by his

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Speaker 1: own chainsaw, and this guy calls Doug.

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Speaker 5: A lot of chang, a lot of incidents, yeah.

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Speaker 4: Woodlow management, country.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, everything everything is like cutting his cutting that another

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Speaker 1: guy gets hurt by his chainsaw and he calls like

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Speaker 1: dog finds out, but Doug's not around, and Doug's like

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Speaker 1: Keeper's all around, always around. So he calls Keefer to

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Speaker 1: notify about the chainsaw injury, and Keifer had a great quote.

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Speaker 1: He says, I'm always around, but I'm never quite there.

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Speaker 5: That's good. That's good. That needs to be on like

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Speaker 5: a magnet or a bumper sticker.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's great.

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Speaker 5: That's a great line. Always around but not always there.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So your book, Yeah, first book, the next conversation,

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Speaker 1: argue less, talk more. I got it. I gotta this

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Speaker 1: is a I haven't read it.

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Speaker 5: That's fine.

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Speaker 1: I read the beginning to tell people cause I feel

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Speaker 1: like a lot of times people don't come out come clean.

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Speaker 5: Oh yeah, I've been on lots of podcasts and you know,

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Speaker 5: good and well, they've never they haven't even cracked that open.

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Speaker 5: It's fine, not a problem.

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Speaker 1: Nah, how'd you like so you try to take all

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Speaker 1: you learned, yeah, and put it in there some of it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was walking through the book. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: The it kind of has to be all you learned,

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Speaker 4: because I keep looking at that title and trying to

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Speaker 4: make a sequel out of it, and it's hard.

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Speaker 5: Yeah right right, Yeah, it's definitive. The conversation after that one,

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Speaker 5: the next next conversation, still arguing, Yeah, exact question mark, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 5: the conversation after the next one. Yeah. So I'm a

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Speaker 5: social media that where when I was posting these videos,

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Speaker 5: people would leave a comment say, you need to write

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Speaker 5: a book, Please write a book, Please write a book. Oh,

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Speaker 5: And I thought, well, I guess I'll write a book.

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Speaker 5: I mean, I was googling how do you write a book?

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Speaker 5: And then Test came along. I mean, that's as simple

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Speaker 5: as I say. When you write that in it talks

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Speaker 5: about self publishing, really, and I thought I was going

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Speaker 5: to self publish it, and then Test came along and

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Speaker 5: saved me, and Mark came and saved me. And so

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Speaker 5: the idea was I need to I wanted to provide

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Speaker 5: the people that follow me my framework with how to

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Speaker 5: communicate how I do it, my thoughts on it, so

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Speaker 5: that if they want to go and not need me.

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Speaker 5: There you go. You don't have to watch my content anymore.

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Speaker 5: You got the you got the book. But it's not

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Speaker 5: just a summary of every every one of my hit

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Speaker 5: viral videos or every one of that. It's not just

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Speaker 5: a regurgitation. So it lays out three different rules, talks

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Speaker 5: about how to say things with control, say things with confidence,

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Speaker 5: and say it to connect. And the idea is that

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Speaker 5: people weren't watching my stuff. They handled the last conversation.

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Speaker 5: They were watching that the change how they were going

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Speaker 5: to handle the next conversation. And that's how this whole

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Speaker 5: thing kind of came about. How to help people argue

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Speaker 5: less and talk more.

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Speaker 1: Tell me about the three things, Yeah, the three like like,

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Speaker 1: give me a summation of the.

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Speaker 5: What you mean by the whatever the hell you just

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Speaker 5: laid out? Yeah? Yeah, whatever that is?

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Speaker 1: I can't remember.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, it's easy to forget. The rule want say

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Speaker 5: it with control is all about, rather than trying to

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Speaker 5: control the other person, things that you can do with

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Speaker 5: within your own body to help control yourself, you know,

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Speaker 5: just kind of control. Regulate your own emotions before you

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Speaker 5: get into it, not excite the moment, make it worse.

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Speaker 5: Same things with confidence is learning about how to find

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Speaker 5: your assertive voice. You have people that might overapologize or

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Speaker 5: find ways to be really hesitant with their words. This

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Speaker 5: is more about how to lean into it and be

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Speaker 5: more assertive when you communicate. Three is how to say

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Speaker 5: things to connect, which is all about how to handle

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Speaker 5: difficult conversations. How do you deliver bad news? How do

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Speaker 5: you tell someone though and you're not really sure how

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Speaker 5: to deal with that? How do you deal with these

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Speaker 5: conversations that you're dreading, you know, while you're brushing your

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Speaker 5: teeth and driving there, and you know you got to

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Speaker 5: have it, but you don't know how. And so this

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Speaker 5: gives a good framework for all of that. I like

439
00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:34,479
Speaker 5: to say that some people might teach you how to

440
00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:39,199
Speaker 5: play an instrument. I teach you the I give you

441
00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:41,200
Speaker 5: the sheet music, I tell you what chords to play.

442
00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:42,240
Speaker 5: That's kind of how.

443
00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:47,480
Speaker 8: Is this Are those rules things that all trial lawyers learn?

444
00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:50,520
Speaker 8: Or is this stuff you learned along the way?

445
00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:50,760
Speaker 1: Yeah?

446
00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:53,080
Speaker 5: Great question. Now this is law school didn't teach you

447
00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:57,760
Speaker 5: squat about reading. People only teaches how to read the law,

448
00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:01,640
Speaker 5: how to apply case law to certain facts in spot issues. Uh, Now,

449
00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:05,760
Speaker 5: trial trials. Courtroom certainly can give you a lot of

450
00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:08,760
Speaker 5: training and communication. How do you handle conflict? Because everything

451
00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:11,919
Speaker 5: you do you're being watched. You'll probably like this. So

452
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:15,760
Speaker 5: a lot of your really good attorneys, the ones that

453
00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:18,040
Speaker 5: let's just say make a lot of money, they do

454
00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:21,919
Speaker 5: really well. They won't wear their Rolex and drive their

455
00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:25,119
Speaker 5: Mercedes to the courtroom. They have they have another The

456
00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:28,040
Speaker 5: good ones wear they have a different truck. They have

457
00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:35,800
Speaker 5: like an old beat up eighty seven. Yeah yeah, yeah,

458
00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:39,440
Speaker 5: yeah yeah, And so they wear like the second hand suit.

459
00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:42,399
Speaker 5: They really because as soon as you pull into the

460
00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:45,800
Speaker 5: parking lot, jurors, perspective, jurors, they're all watching you the

461
00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:48,000
Speaker 5: whole way. So if you come in and you have

462
00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:50,159
Speaker 5: like a whole team of five pair of legals, it

463
00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:53,800
Speaker 5: just means the Johnny Cochran approach. Yeah exactly. So you

464
00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:56,679
Speaker 5: have people that kid, oh yeah, because as soon as

465
00:21:56,680 --> 00:21:59,359
Speaker 5: you walk in, they're looking at everything. If you if

466
00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:01,120
Speaker 5: you exactly, So if you come in with a whole

467
00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:03,160
Speaker 5: bunch of people, they're gonna assume you have a whole

468
00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:05,200
Speaker 5: bunch of money. That means your client has put a

469
00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:07,240
Speaker 5: whole lot of money, which means they're trying to hide

470
00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:11,840
Speaker 5: something because they're afraid of this case. So it's it's

471
00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:14,480
Speaker 5: very very tacticals. Soon as you and it starts in

472
00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:17,399
Speaker 5: the parking lot, it really does. But so any anytime

473
00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:19,000
Speaker 5: you go into the courtroom, you're being watched. You have

474
00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:20,960
Speaker 5: your twelve jurors or maybe six if you're in a

475
00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:23,399
Speaker 5: county court. You got the judge, the bailiff, the court reporter,

476
00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:26,959
Speaker 5: opposing counsel pair, legals, people that are back in the audience.

477
00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:33,800
Speaker 5: Everything you do is watched. KA nothing to do with it,

478
00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:36,120
Speaker 5: don't matter. I communicated, but I'm just glad to be here.

479
00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:37,760
Speaker 1: I want to do whatever well I want. I want

480
00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:39,600
Speaker 1: to get your quick feedback from something that happening when

481
00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:42,639
Speaker 1: I was eighteen years old. If this is normal or not.

482
00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:44,240
Speaker 1: I tell the story all the time. I never asked

483
00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:48,440
Speaker 1: someone who would know I had jury duty. And it's

484
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:56,280
Speaker 1: a it's a crack cocaine trial, criminal trial. Yeah, and

485
00:22:56,359 --> 00:23:01,320
Speaker 1: they're they're pushing for a felony or like a sorry,

486
00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:04,280
Speaker 1: a life sentence for a crack dealer. We go through

487
00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:09,800
Speaker 1: this whole trial and it's like wire tabs and translators,

488
00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:12,040
Speaker 1: you know, and you make it on the jury. I'm

489
00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:13,879
Speaker 1: on the jury. Yeah, I sat through the whole thing. Man,

490
00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:18,440
Speaker 1: that was fascinating. I loved it. So what they had

491
00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:20,720
Speaker 1: to prove is that he had sold a certain threshold

492
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:25,600
Speaker 1: of crack and they had bought the undercover guys had

493
00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:29,000
Speaker 1: bought like ninety percent of what they needed, okay, just

494
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:31,879
Speaker 1: so all they needed to do was through money and

495
00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:34,479
Speaker 1: all that other like there has to have been another

496
00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:37,840
Speaker 1: whatever pound. I don't know what the hell was, I remember, right,

497
00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:40,480
Speaker 1: So the whole logic was like, here's all the what

498
00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:46,320
Speaker 1: we bought, and if he sold ten percent more through

499
00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:50,159
Speaker 1: his career, he would have trafficked x quantity of crack, right,

500
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:53,800
Speaker 1: And we come back very quickly with a guilty verdict.

501
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:58,080
Speaker 1: The judge was this dude named Mike COBBSA. I'll always

502
00:23:58,119 --> 00:23:58,600
Speaker 1: remember that.

503
00:23:58,720 --> 00:23:59,480
Speaker 5: Okay.

504
00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:01,800
Speaker 1: He says, we do the whole thing. They take the

505
00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:03,440
Speaker 1: guy away, and he says, I'd like you to hang

506
00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:07,040
Speaker 1: tight a minute to the jury, all right, And he says,

507
00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:10,720
Speaker 1: if any of you has any feeling of remorse about

508
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:12,879
Speaker 1: what you just did, I want to tell you a

509
00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:16,040
Speaker 1: couple of things about that guy and tells us all

510
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:20,280
Speaker 1: the non admissible evidence, all the double jeopardy ship. Yeah,

511
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:21,640
Speaker 1: is that normal.

512
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:24,680
Speaker 5: Very normal. Okay, yeah, it's normal. It is fascinating, it's normal.

513
00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:26,480
Speaker 1: And so he said, and I'm gonna tell you they

514
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:28,119
Speaker 1: did buy more than they needed.

515
00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:30,800
Speaker 5: Hell yeah yeah.

516
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:33,439
Speaker 1: And he had this and had that. Yeah, and he's like,

517
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:35,280
Speaker 1: whatever shot his girlfriend exactly?

518
00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:38,679
Speaker 5: Yeah, any any of it. Yeah, it's very very common.

519
00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:42,440
Speaker 5: And so, and it's criminal trial and civil trial. We

520
00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:44,960
Speaker 5: get to ask questions of the jurors. So after the

521
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:49,040
Speaker 5: trial is over, if we want, we can ask the panel.

522
00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:51,280
Speaker 5: So we can go and ask them, how do you

523
00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:53,280
Speaker 5: like to trial? What what evidence did you find? We

524
00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:57,200
Speaker 5: know how you room? You know what what what exactly?

525
00:24:57,400 --> 00:24:59,879
Speaker 5: And they and they're free to answer or not u

526
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:03,480
Speaker 5: But often you have the jurors will come to you

527
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:09,159
Speaker 5: after the trial, after you're done whatever they've they've ruled

528
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:12,359
Speaker 5: judgment on it, and then you can get to ask

529
00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:14,120
Speaker 5: them what what piece of evidence did you like, would

530
00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:16,960
Speaker 5: you not like, would you find most compelling? And so

531
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 5: you'll have some that come up and hug you know,

532
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:21,560
Speaker 5: your client, just I just want I'm so sorry for

533
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:24,119
Speaker 5: all you've been through. There's people who hate the other side,

534
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:26,520
Speaker 5: I mean, or they might hate you. I mean, you've

535
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:28,440
Speaker 5: never you never know, but yeah, you can definitely talk

536
00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:28,760
Speaker 5: to them.

537
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:30,639
Speaker 1: So it helps you hone your craft too.

538
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:32,840
Speaker 5: Big time because you think that the one piece of

539
00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:35,080
Speaker 5: evidence that you thought was so crucial, like no, I

540
00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:37,200
Speaker 5: got to get this in. They didn't care a lock

541
00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:40,000
Speaker 5: about it, didn't even enter their system. They were focused

542
00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:42,520
Speaker 5: on this and you had no idea.

543
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:43,880
Speaker 1: They're watching your watch.

544
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:47,320
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, yeah, every little thing because like, for example,

545
00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:52,000
Speaker 5: if let's say I need to other side objects to

546
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:54,800
Speaker 5: some evidence, and it's what they would call it a

547
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:58,320
Speaker 5: quick maybe objection battle in front of the jury, which

548
00:25:58,359 --> 00:25:59,720
Speaker 5: you typically don't want to do. But when they say

549
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:00,560
Speaker 5: can we approach the bench?

550
00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:02,160
Speaker 1: You say that again, I understand. Yeah.

551
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:04,280
Speaker 5: So let's say I need to object to a piece

552
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:08,600
Speaker 5: of evidence that's coming in, so objection your honor, whatever

553
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:10,960
Speaker 5: it is, relevance here, say you name it, and you

554
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:14,199
Speaker 5: typically will say can we approach, meaning we want to

555
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:16,360
Speaker 5: go to the bench and have this discover this discussion

556
00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:18,639
Speaker 5: because we don't want the jury to hear it. Jurors

557
00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:20,639
Speaker 5: don't like that because it feels like how come you

558
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:22,520
Speaker 5: get y'all get to talk and we don't get to

559
00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:24,960
Speaker 5: hear it, like like, oh, what are y'all talking about?

560
00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:26,760
Speaker 5: And they don't. They don't like that. So when you

561
00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:29,399
Speaker 5: have an attorney who's objecting a lot, it's going, what

562
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:31,000
Speaker 5: are you what are you hiding? What are you not

563
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:33,920
Speaker 5: wanting me to hear? They'll they'll count that against them.

564
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:36,680
Speaker 1: Or like, even though the judge says, hey, never mind

565
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:39,760
Speaker 1: this exactly, even though the judge says specifically they're going

566
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:41,359
Speaker 1: to object to that, don't pay attention to it.

567
00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:43,440
Speaker 5: They absolutely pay attention to it. And then you watch

568
00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:44,879
Speaker 5: how the people leave when.

569
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:46,159
Speaker 1: You say to your kids, don't listen to what me

570
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:47,159
Speaker 1: and mom are going to say.

571
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:50,520
Speaker 5: Exactly that's exactly right. And so when you leave when

572
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:52,399
Speaker 5: the judge makes his ruling. Now, it could be we

573
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:53,960
Speaker 5: could have out in front. I don't have to approach

574
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 5: the bench. We could just talk. But as soon as

575
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:58,640
Speaker 5: we're coming back, if you look defeated or you look mad,

576
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:01,560
Speaker 5: you look upset, let's objected to something and I lost,

577
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 5: the other side's going to go okay, whatever is about

578
00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:06,439
Speaker 5: to be said, it's going to hurt their case. Like

579
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:09,159
Speaker 5: they pick up on it even more so you have

580
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:11,760
Speaker 5: to be really strategic about if it's a fact that

581
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 5: hurts you, often it's better to just let it in don't.

582
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:19,800
Speaker 5: Don't try and fight it, because they'll most likely won't

583
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:23,040
Speaker 5: even pay attention. After lunch. Somebody just had Mexican food.

584
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:25,480
Speaker 5: They have text mechs on there. You know, somebody's nod

585
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:27,840
Speaker 5: and somebody's writing notes. The other person's looking off like

586
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:31,320
Speaker 5: you never know. Like a teacher, you typically don't want

587
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:34,480
Speaker 5: teachers on your jury, like when we're picking jurors, because

588
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:37,959
Speaker 5: they'll they whole class. They'll they'll say, well, no if

589
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:40,120
Speaker 5: you watch the X, Y and Z, and then they

590
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:43,960
Speaker 5: want they corral everybody in the in the room and

591
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:47,520
Speaker 5: so they start to teach. Uh and uh. If if

592
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:49,760
Speaker 5: a teacher is for you, that's the best thing. If

593
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:53,280
Speaker 5: a teachers against you, you're cooked. You're absolutely cooked. Yeah,

594
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:54,919
Speaker 5: it's funny how that that works.

595
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 1: Hmmm. I feel like asking you for hot tips on

596
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:00,320
Speaker 1: how to get out to jury duty for people that's

597
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:01,920
Speaker 1: called the entire American.

598
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:04,240
Speaker 5: Yeah, it is anti American. I mean pretty much. It's

599
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:07,000
Speaker 5: it's the percentage of even getting to the jury duty

600
00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:11,280
Speaker 5: is very small, I mean actually getting picked, actually getting picked.

601
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:13,879
Speaker 5: I mean, I think anybody should be part of that experience.

602
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:17,520
Speaker 5: And then that's just it's a system unlike any other.

603
00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:19,920
Speaker 6: I want nothing more than to serve on a jury. Yeah,

604
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:22,399
Speaker 6: I've never got I got I got a summons. And

605
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:25,639
Speaker 6: then I realized that I live because we live outside

606
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:28,440
Speaker 6: of city limits, I wasn't eligible to be in that

607
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:33,000
Speaker 6: in that uh trial, and I was just defeated.

608
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:34,440
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's rough.

609
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:38,520
Speaker 4: But loving to be on a jury disqualify him from

610
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:39,320
Speaker 4: being on a jury.

611
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:39,520
Speaker 5: No.

612
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:41,719
Speaker 1: I wonder if he said, oh no, I'm just excited

613
00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:43,120
Speaker 1: to be here. I just want to be on a jury.

614
00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:44,680
Speaker 5: Yeah, they like that, like that.

615
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:48,120
Speaker 6: I have a friend who's been on two incredible juries.

616
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:50,120
Speaker 6: That's cool, really good stuff.

617
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:52,000
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, I'll tell you how to get out of

618
00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 5: it if you really want to know. And there's nothing

619
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:58,600
Speaker 5: wrong with this. It's whenever the so they'll call it.

620
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:01,840
Speaker 5: In some parts of Texas they say wader, or parts

621
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:03,040
Speaker 5: of the US they say wa deer.

622
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 1: They use French in Texas.

623
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:09,000
Speaker 5: No, in Texas we say ordiar. I call it ordre.

624
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:11,920
Speaker 5: And so what you do is you take all the jurors.

625
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:14,000
Speaker 5: Everybody's got their pink slips or whatever. They come in

626
00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:15,680
Speaker 5: and it's just like a big cattle call. They're all

627
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:20,160
Speaker 5: sitting down and so the attorney's lawyers we come up

628
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:22,479
Speaker 5: and start asking questions, trying to narrow down, and we

629
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:24,320
Speaker 5: pick who we want on their jury. But it's not

630
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:28,680
Speaker 5: you can't just say, like dodgeball, I want to pick Steve,

631
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:31,080
Speaker 5: I want to pick whoever it's it's not that. It's

632
00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:33,560
Speaker 5: by process of elimination. So you have to say who

633
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:36,360
Speaker 5: you don't want, and whoever is left is who's going

634
00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:38,320
Speaker 5: to be on the jury. I have a number of strikes,

635
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 5: the other person has. Another attorney has a number of strikes,

636
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:44,280
Speaker 5: And I can just strike somebody because I don't like

637
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:46,080
Speaker 5: anything about them. I can just say, oh, I got

638
00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:48,120
Speaker 5: a funny feel about this person, and I strike. It

639
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 5: can't be a discriminatory reason. But whoever's left is how

640
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:54,520
Speaker 5: they get on. So if you want to get off

641
00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 5: the jury, be very opinionated at their questions. So if

642
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:01,720
Speaker 5: they're going to ask a question of you know, how

643
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:04,200
Speaker 5: do you feel about lawsuits? And if you just answer

644
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:06,640
Speaker 5: you know, I hate lawsuits, I hate attorneys, I hate

645
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:08,640
Speaker 5: everything this whole thing, you will not get picked.

646
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 1: Yeah that's what I figured. You could just play that game,

647
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:12,800
Speaker 1: or or you just don't even care if someone's guilty

648
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:14,960
Speaker 1: or not, if they've been accused of a crime hang.

649
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:18,280
Speaker 5: Them, yeah, I'm telling you yeah, yeah, yeah. Or on

650
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 5: the civil side, meaning the non criminal side, if it's

651
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:23,600
Speaker 5: you know, there's way too many lawsuits in the world,

652
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:27,080
Speaker 5: or you know, I think everybody should just I don't.

653
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:30,120
Speaker 5: I hate big companies. You're going to get off the

654
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:32,960
Speaker 5: jury because somebody's going to say you're too opinionated already,

655
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 5: you're not sharing showing that you're fair and impartial, like uh,

656
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:38,560
Speaker 5: and this kind of relates to my world.

657
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:38,920
Speaker 1: I had.

658
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:43,000
Speaker 5: This is probably about year and a half back. I'm

659
00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:49,520
Speaker 5: taking Vordaire and I'm asking my questions. Is a motor

660
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:52,120
Speaker 5: vehicle case, and I go sit down. The defence attorney

661
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:54,680
Speaker 5: stands up and he has his you know, his readers,

662
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:57,640
Speaker 5: and he's asking his questions and he there's the first

663
00:30:57,640 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 5: time I've ever heard anybody ask this, he says. Anybody

664
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 5: here follow mister Fisher's uh is a social media anybody

665
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 5: follows social media, and probably about sixty percent of the

666
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:13,800
Speaker 5: hands we really yeah, I mean, and I never expected

667
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 5: any of this, Or you're like, how.

668
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:16,960
Speaker 4: Many of you know I have my book?

669
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 5: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, And so I got

670
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:24,280
Speaker 5: signed copies of the truck right exactly, yeah, yeah, and

671
00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:27,880
Speaker 5: so this is anyway, and so he was kind of

672
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:30,240
Speaker 5: taken back. I was taken back, and I remember looking

673
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:33,400
Speaker 5: at my client like I didn't expect that either. And

674
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 5: so because he asked that question, you then have to

675
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:39,200
Speaker 5: show that each person could be fair and impartial. So

676
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:42,240
Speaker 5: even if you're related to somebody in the trial, you

677
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 5: still have the show can you be fair and impartial?

678
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:47,000
Speaker 5: And so he goes starts going down with every person

679
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:48,680
Speaker 5: who raised their hand. Can you be fair and impartial?

680
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:50,360
Speaker 5: Some people go, oh, yeah, yeah, I can still you know,

681
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:53,040
Speaker 5: take the evidence as it comes, no problem. Well then

682
00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:57,120
Speaker 5: he got to this one lady, this this sweet little lady,

683
00:31:57,640 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 5: and he said, man, can you think you can be

684
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:02,840
Speaker 5: fair and impartial? And she said, no, sir, I don't

685
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:06,680
Speaker 5: believe I could. And uh he goes He goes, uh

686
00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:10,160
Speaker 5: and uh why would that be, which he should not

687
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:11,680
Speaker 5: have aascinated. He should have just said well, thank you,

688
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 5: ma'am and gone on to the next one. And she goes, well,

689
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:16,960
Speaker 5: you know what, I just watched every one of his videos.

690
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:20,040
Speaker 5: He is so kind and and genuine, and I think

691
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:22,800
Speaker 5: if if he has his case with his client, it's

692
00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:23,440
Speaker 5: a real case.

693
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:27,760
Speaker 1: And then there are several.

694
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:29,640
Speaker 5: In the audience, you know in the panel who like

695
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:31,560
Speaker 5: shook their head like yeah, I kind of agree and

696
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:36,800
Speaker 5: he and he just goes very much. And so we

697
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:39,440
Speaker 5: went on continue on, and I was like trying not

698
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:42,040
Speaker 5: the bust out laughing, and we settled the case about

699
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:45,840
Speaker 5: thirty minutes later. Yeah, that just goes the show. I

700
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:48,920
Speaker 5: never expected that. Yeah, or I'll have a judge at

701
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:50,720
Speaker 5: the end of a hearing that I've never been in

702
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:53,800
Speaker 5: front of before. As we're both leaving with the other attorney,

703
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:55,440
Speaker 5: he'll say, mister Fisher, I like what you're doing?

704
00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 1: You know that on my wife? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, we

705
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:02,280
Speaker 1: had a trial tourney right in one time. Amazing on

706
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:04,120
Speaker 1: some of the details. But he was sharing with us

707
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:08,200
Speaker 1: that he was doing jury selection, and he didn't tell

708
00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:10,040
Speaker 1: us if he wanted he wanted to be able to

709
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:14,280
Speaker 1: identify any hunters in the jury. He never said if

710
00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:16,840
Speaker 1: you wanted to get him in or out. But he

711
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:21,000
Speaker 1: also said he didn't want his logic to be understood

712
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:24,280
Speaker 1: by the other side. Interesting and he wrote in because

713
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:26,760
Speaker 1: he said, I asked, do any of you listen to

714
00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:27,960
Speaker 1: the Meat Eater podcast?

715
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:29,160
Speaker 5: Oh, that's a good way to ask.

716
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:31,360
Speaker 1: But he never gave me any of the details like

717
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:32,520
Speaker 1: did he want him in or out?

718
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 5: He probably it depends depends. So historically plaintiffs benefit, and

719
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:44,200
Speaker 5: I mean somebody who has the complaint, somebody who's been hurt,

720
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:46,720
Speaker 5: somebody who's suing somebody else. This is on the civil side,

721
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:49,520
Speaker 5: it could be on the criminal side too. Those that

722
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:54,520
Speaker 5: are more right leaning are more likely to say, yes,

723
00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:58,280
Speaker 5: they're guilty. They're more likely to turn down somebody who's

724
00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:00,600
Speaker 5: on a civil lawsuit, so they're gonna they're gonna lean

725
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 5: in favor of the business, not the person who's hurt. God,

726
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:07,560
Speaker 5: So the plaintiffs are people who typically lean or benefit

727
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:12,319
Speaker 5: from somebody who's more let's say, liberal leaning. And then

728
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:14,879
Speaker 5: you have your blue counties, your red counties. I mean

729
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:18,520
Speaker 5: it's very much controlled and like the state of Texas

730
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:21,960
Speaker 5: very red now, and so that leans on what kind

731
00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:25,560
Speaker 5: of jurors you're going to get. So most likely, let's say,

732
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:29,279
Speaker 5: if most hunters, let's just put a generalized statement, most

733
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:32,280
Speaker 5: hunters lean a certain way, then that's what he's hoping

734
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:34,840
Speaker 5: for of that kind of mindset. Now there's always exceptions,

735
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:36,160
Speaker 5: but that's that's kind of how they roll.

736
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:38,680
Speaker 1: What my guests wound up being I should have written

737
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:42,840
Speaker 1: them back. My guess was that it was a maybe

738
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:45,560
Speaker 1: a poaching case. Oh yeah, And if he wanted to

739
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:48,720
Speaker 1: trivialize the offense, like it's just an elk who cares?

740
00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:50,799
Speaker 1: Yeah right, you'd want to get all the hunters out

741
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:53,160
Speaker 1: of there, oh for sure. You know. Then to then

742
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:55,440
Speaker 1: paint a picture like this, he shot a elk on

743
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:56,759
Speaker 1: his own place, who gives a shit?

744
00:34:56,920 --> 00:35:00,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, or whatever. If it's a poaching case,

745
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:03,040
Speaker 5: did he say where he lived and we have to

746
00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 5: go find it? And that's fine?

747
00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:07,640
Speaker 1: But yeah, I only remember as much as I'm telling you.

748
00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:09,520
Speaker 5: Yeah, but I mean that's but that just goes to

749
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:12,680
Speaker 5: show you it's case by case. Like there's some people

750
00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:15,200
Speaker 5: that I would, depending on the facts, I definitely wanted

751
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:16,960
Speaker 5: my jury. There's some that I would not want a

752
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:20,680
Speaker 5: million miles from the deliberation room. And so you have

753
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:23,840
Speaker 5: people that, yeah, if they're a hunter, they're going to

754
00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:27,160
Speaker 5: take conservation a lot more seriously. And yeah, I.

755
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:29,680
Speaker 4: Had a bench warrant for my arrest.

756
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:33,240
Speaker 1: I'd like to say one time, his openings are the best.

757
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:33,880
Speaker 2: I love that.

758
00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:39,560
Speaker 4: I've had a couple just added pure negligence, not out

759
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:43,440
Speaker 4: of you know, real solid criminal activity.

760
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:45,439
Speaker 1: Like from not checking your mail, from not checking my mail.

761
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:49,200
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah. And I was notified that I had a

762
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:52,160
Speaker 4: bench warrant. I was guiding at the time, so I

763
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:54,160
Speaker 4: spent a lot of time in the woods, not in

764
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:56,520
Speaker 4: cell reception and definitely not getting mail.

765
00:35:56,640 --> 00:35:57,359
Speaker 5: Yeah yeah.

766
00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:01,279
Speaker 4: And it was for not paying a parking ticket for

767
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:03,360
Speaker 4: like a very long time, I think, or a speeding

768
00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:07,960
Speaker 4: ticket or something. And and uh so I go into

769
00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:12,680
Speaker 4: the courtroom, submit my I have my letter, finally, very

770
00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:15,960
Speaker 4: overdue letter, submit it like yeah, great, the you know,

771
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:18,160
Speaker 4: stand in line over here, the judge you'll see aloud

772
00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:23,480
Speaker 4: in Missoula, and I really dressed basically like I am

773
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:25,520
Speaker 4: right now. I'm like, oh my god, this is all

774
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:32,680
Speaker 4: not gonna go well. And so they finally get through,

775
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:37,680
Speaker 4: get get up to me in my turn and and

776
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:42,560
Speaker 4: I'm like, yeah, you know, guilty for the ticket. You know,

777
00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:46,759
Speaker 4: can I explain what happened? And just like sure, I said, yeah,

778
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:48,279
Speaker 4: you know, I spend a lot of time in the

779
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:52,120
Speaker 4: woods and I don't have access to mail or you know,

780
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:58,080
Speaker 4: and I'm but I'm in town now and yeah, and

781
00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:01,520
Speaker 4: the judge just like basically said some version of yeah,

782
00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:05,280
Speaker 4: I believe you yeah, but and it was purely based

783
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:08,279
Speaker 4: off of appearance, right right, right right?

784
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:09,640
Speaker 5: Yeah.

785
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:12,600
Speaker 4: And so now having this conversation, I am, I'm like,

786
00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:16,479
Speaker 4: I'm wondering if I would have if anything would have changed,

787
00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:18,799
Speaker 4: ad warn your Rolex. Yeah, if I would have gone

788
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 4: and found a suit or you know, borrowed my buddy's

789
00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:23,200
Speaker 4: ties and stuff like that.

790
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:26,840
Speaker 5: No, probably not. Like I find that most of your courthouses,

791
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:29,480
Speaker 5: especially the smaller ones, they're just good small town people,

792
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:32,560
Speaker 5: and they if you just treat them with kindness, like

793
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:34,560
Speaker 5: if you're just nice, you're not rude. You know, I

794
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:37,799
Speaker 5: can't believe I just got this. I mean, the person

795
00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:40,359
Speaker 5: who has all the powers really your county clerk, those

796
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:44,480
Speaker 5: ladies behind the desk, who's same for like your court coordinator.

797
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:47,280
Speaker 5: Those are the people who have the real huh power

798
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:49,360
Speaker 5: in those courthouses. Oh yeah, those are the ones that

799
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:52,160
Speaker 5: sway the judges because when you're when you're in trial,

800
00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:55,319
Speaker 5: the judge of courtport, the bailiff, they all go back

801
00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:58,000
Speaker 5: to the chamber. You know what they do they talk

802
00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:00,279
Speaker 5: trash on your entire trial. I mean they are they're

803
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:02,279
Speaker 5: they're kind of laying bets on who's gonna win, what

804
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:05,759
Speaker 5: evidence is Oh, yeah, they talk, they gossip about everything. Yeah,

805
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:08,520
Speaker 5: and so they already kind of know in their mind, no,

806
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:10,880
Speaker 5: that evidence is gonna work, or that's not gonna go well,

807
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:13,160
Speaker 5: or who's who's winning and who's not winning. So that

808
00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:15,319
Speaker 5: I mean, it's like they're it's like they're they're junk

809
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:18,520
Speaker 5: TV man. Yeah, yeah, the whole thing. But no, I

810
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:20,840
Speaker 5: think how you you set it up. I wouldn't have

811
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:23,120
Speaker 5: changed that because if you're trying well, there is a

812
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:26,480
Speaker 5: difference between people who let's say, if you wore a

813
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:28,520
Speaker 5: real nice suit and you dressed all up and then

814
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:32,799
Speaker 5: you acted like a jerk, yeah, it's never gonna Yeah, yeah,

815
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:35,080
Speaker 5: they're not gonna go well. But I mean you definitely

816
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:37,440
Speaker 5: fit the look. So you know, I was at the

817
00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:38,520
Speaker 5: fishing I was at the fishing game.

818
00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:41,239
Speaker 4: There have no reason to believe this.

819
00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:43,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, really, I went to the Fishing Game office with

820
00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:49,120
Speaker 1: a co worker right down the road. Uh huh. Who

821
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:51,560
Speaker 1: gets arrested while we're in there because of a bench?

822
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:53,520
Speaker 4: Warn't amazing.

823
00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:55,319
Speaker 7: I've heard.

824
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:57,319
Speaker 1: I was wondering this is gonna come up.

825
00:38:57,719 --> 00:38:59,799
Speaker 8: Did you stick around to see how it turned out?

826
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:02,279
Speaker 4: Just so you started reading stuff on the wall.

827
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:05,440
Speaker 1: Coughton stuffed me.

828
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:08,319
Speaker 8: Well, you took care of what you had to take

829
00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:08,560
Speaker 8: care of.

830
00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:10,840
Speaker 5: That's awesome and hilarious.

831
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:16,120
Speaker 1: John, John, where'd you go? Yeah, because like you go

832
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:20,880
Speaker 1: down and you present your name and they whatever. Unreal

833
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:22,320
Speaker 1: Coughton stuffed.

834
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:25,120
Speaker 7: Have you worked any outdoor crimes before?

835
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:28,080
Speaker 5: No? No, no outdoor crime. So all of my stuff

836
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:30,319
Speaker 5: is civil. I have a lot of friends that, uh

837
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:34,600
Speaker 5: to criminal law, you're either on the state side prosecuting

838
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:39,000
Speaker 5: or you're defending them. I mean, we have our game.

839
00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:43,080
Speaker 5: Ordens are pretty cool. Everybody's really chill down where I'm at.

840
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:45,120
Speaker 5: So I live in southeast Texas, a little bit north

841
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:50,400
Speaker 5: of a town called Beaumont. So it's called Silsby. Is

842
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:52,759
Speaker 5: the is the name of where I live, and just

843
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:53,800
Speaker 5: deep East Texas.

844
00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:56,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's like you guys have budhand down there.

845
00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:59,920
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, we got boot yeah huh yeah, definitely definitely.

846
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:03,120
Speaker 5: So it's uh, it's what I love so much about

847
00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:06,960
Speaker 5: the area is you have your lakes, you have your rivers,

848
00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:10,279
Speaker 5: you you have the golf right there. I'm about forty

849
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:13,120
Speaker 5: five minutes from which which golf, which I call the

850
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:18,719
Speaker 5: Gulf of Mexico. That's what everybody wants to correct you nowadays,

851
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:20,840
Speaker 5: Like it's Gulf of Mexico for me.

852
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:22,839
Speaker 1: Man, dude, we were doing vo the other day. Yeah,

853
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:26,040
Speaker 1: we had like we're doing VO for a Mediator episode, Yeah,

854
00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:28,719
Speaker 1: which occurred there. Uh you know, and it was so

855
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:31,560
Speaker 1: hard to like navigate it. I'm like, I don't know, man,

856
00:40:31,719 --> 00:40:34,440
Speaker 1: Like what do you call it? Yeah? So I said, uh,

857
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:37,920
Speaker 1: I settled down the Gulf of uh you know.

858
00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:43,320
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's why you can probably do it. This is

859
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:44,839
Speaker 5: probably the best way you could do it.

860
00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:45,959
Speaker 1: Yeah.

861
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:48,080
Speaker 5: So uh yeah, it is.

862
00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:51,600
Speaker 1: So it's like so silly, it is. I think that

863
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:55,319
Speaker 1: like change names and things. But at the same time,

864
00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:58,560
Speaker 1: it's like it's also it's so silly, but it's also

865
00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:01,960
Speaker 1: like I don't want to get into it. It's like

866
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:04,000
Speaker 1: a little roar. It's a little language. It's like a

867
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:06,799
Speaker 1: little hey, I'll show you what it's like to have

868
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:09,239
Speaker 1: to choose your words real careful all the time. Yeah,

869
00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:15,879
Speaker 1: that conflict. Yeah, yeah, we gotta get in. Okay, who's

870
00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:18,680
Speaker 1: got this first one about? Uh, we're gonna put We're

871
00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:19,560
Speaker 1: gonna put this to the test.

872
00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:20,480
Speaker 5: Now, what do y'all have?

873
00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:26,440
Speaker 1: Everybody's got we got It's just scenarios Okay that you

874
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:27,400
Speaker 1: can help us walk.

875
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:32,640
Speaker 8: Through first how to properly execute the insult compliment sandwich.

876
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:34,400
Speaker 1: But I want to get into this. I want to

877
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:36,120
Speaker 1: do that. I want to go to specifics first, just

878
00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:38,040
Speaker 1: to get a flavor. Who's got this one? About this

879
00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:39,560
Speaker 1: starts coworkers and girlfriends.

880
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:43,240
Speaker 4: I don't know who wrote that one, but it's sure good.

881
00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:43,840
Speaker 1: Where to come from?

882
00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:45,120
Speaker 3: Who wrote that one?

883
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:45,600
Speaker 1: Man?

884
00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:48,040
Speaker 4: I wish we could find out.

885
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:52,560
Speaker 1: You're just gonna read it for us.

886
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:55,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, wherever he's admitting of his hit, I don't know.

887
00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:57,719
Speaker 4: It's an open document. Everybody's got access to it.

888
00:41:57,760 --> 00:41:59,719
Speaker 1: Okay, So he's gonna hate you, he's gonna you know,

889
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:03,000
Speaker 1: I guess, and you're gonna help us think through you

890
00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:06,319
Speaker 1: to help walk through how to handle difficult situations.

891
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:07,919
Speaker 4: I love it, and at the end of the day,

892
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:10,480
Speaker 4: whoever wrote it is not not really the point.

893
00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:14,360
Speaker 7: I still love their girlfriends problem.

894
00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:18,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, people write in and message and stuff

895
00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:19,480
Speaker 4: all the time, so we get a lot of you.

896
00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:20,879
Speaker 7: They have a mustache.

897
00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:21,200
Speaker 1: Yeah.

898
00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:26,680
Speaker 4: Co workers and girlfriends always casually ask about hunting spot locations. Unfortunately,

899
00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:30,560
Speaker 4: they cannot be trusted, not because they are stealing spots,

900
00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:34,120
Speaker 4: but because they don't understand that this information can never

901
00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:39,040
Speaker 4: be brought up in a casual conversation. Ever, the reasoning

902
00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:43,120
Speaker 4: behind my non answers to these questions have already been explained,

903
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:47,640
Speaker 4: but they continue to ask anyway, So now I just lie,

904
00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:52,120
Speaker 4: which I hate. How do you navigate that scenario?

905
00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:58,440
Speaker 5: So for whoever wrote this in, I would ask them

906
00:42:58,520 --> 00:43:00,600
Speaker 5: this kind of clarifying question and maybe have an idea

907
00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:04,520
Speaker 5: of what they might say. Is is this a conversation

908
00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:06,400
Speaker 5: that's happening in front of other people or is this

909
00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:10,120
Speaker 5: just one on one with whoever this girlfriend or spouse.

910
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:12,680
Speaker 4: Might be and co workers. Let's not forget the co

911
00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:17,080
Speaker 4: workers part. It can be both, it can be both.

912
00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:20,680
Speaker 5: So you have something. Okay, this is super specific. So

913
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:24,160
Speaker 5: let's say let's say there's a piece of information that

914
00:43:24,239 --> 00:43:26,560
Speaker 5: you're telling someone I can't tell you that and they're

915
00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:29,880
Speaker 5: having to continually repeat that kind of thing. Do you

916
00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:32,960
Speaker 5: feel that they're just breaking that trust? Are they Is

917
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:35,000
Speaker 5: it intentional from this other person or is it just

918
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:36,319
Speaker 5: they're just not thinking about it.

919
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:39,880
Speaker 4: They're just not thinking about it. It's not internalized on

920
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:44,200
Speaker 4: the same level as as it's typically like a younger

921
00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:50,880
Speaker 4: hunter versus a more seasoned hunter. Because right, the value

922
00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:53,719
Speaker 4: of that information only increases over time.

923
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:56,799
Speaker 5: Okay, so give me a little insight here when you

924
00:43:57,520 --> 00:44:01,440
Speaker 5: where are certain spots are? Yeah? Certain spots are they

925
00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:03,120
Speaker 5: this is news to me, Like you just don't if

926
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:04,640
Speaker 5: you're like, hey, this is a great area, we're not

927
00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:06,080
Speaker 5: going to go. We're not going to tell people that

928
00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:06,520
Speaker 5: we're hunting.

929
00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:09,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like yeah, like, uh, this is a this is

930
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:12,560
Speaker 1: a public land problem, ah okay, or fish or a

931
00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:13,680
Speaker 1: fishing problem.

932
00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:16,439
Speaker 8: You got a circle of trust who you might share

933
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:19,839
Speaker 8: it with. But then like there's people that you're not

934
00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:20,760
Speaker 8: gonna Yeah.

935
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:22,319
Speaker 1: So a guy like Cal, Let's say a guy like Cal.

936
00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:24,919
Speaker 5: Yeah, just as an example, a guy like.

937
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:27,640
Speaker 1: Cal has a girlfriend says where are you?

938
00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:29,480
Speaker 5: Oh? Okay?

939
00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:33,440
Speaker 1: Then he goes, I'm up on none of your business creek, right, okay?

940
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:38,960
Speaker 1: Uh what his problem now is someone's gonna go like, hey,

941
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:41,200
Speaker 1: what's Cal doing? I don't know. He called he sent

942
00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:42,840
Speaker 1: me a picture, you called all these fish?

943
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:43,759
Speaker 5: Where is he?

944
00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:46,160
Speaker 1: Where is he? Like? He said, he's on none of

945
00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:48,840
Speaker 1: your business creek there? Okay, No, she didn't know that.

946
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:51,040
Speaker 1: She just was blowing it up.

947
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:51,719
Speaker 5: There we go.

948
00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:55,799
Speaker 1: But he just knows it's gonna slip and so if

949
00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:59,560
Speaker 1: he goes, I can't tell you.

950
00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:01,359
Speaker 5: I say, I guess what's the problem with that? So

951
00:45:01,719 --> 00:45:03,399
Speaker 5: this would be my thought, This would be my thought

952
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:05,400
Speaker 5: on that is one. Of course, it's good to know

953
00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:07,399
Speaker 5: that it's not potential from this other person too. They're

954
00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:09,920
Speaker 5: they're only calling because they care. They're probably calling to

955
00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:14,840
Speaker 5: create conversation. It's my guess that they're just generally wanting

956
00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:18,719
Speaker 5: to know where you are. I think if you come

957
00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:22,640
Speaker 5: at it from I'm safe over in the most general

958
00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:26,200
Speaker 5: area that you can be without telling them where exactly

959
00:45:26,239 --> 00:45:28,760
Speaker 5: you are, is probably your best bet, because that sounds

960
00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:31,719
Speaker 5: like the reason they're asking is not really to know

961
00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:35,200
Speaker 5: the information that could slip of getting out. This is

962
00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:38,040
Speaker 5: where we're have this wonderful honey hole. It's that she's

963
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:41,240
Speaker 5: just asking because she probably just is making conversation, wants

964
00:45:41,239 --> 00:45:41,960
Speaker 5: to know you're safe.

965
00:45:43,239 --> 00:45:48,920
Speaker 1: But problem but the co workers, the coworkers are not

966
00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:52,680
Speaker 1: the co workers of okay, are my coworkers here?

967
00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:55,799
Speaker 5: They're mining for information? Yeah, who are coworkers here in

968
00:45:55,840 --> 00:45:57,920
Speaker 5: this scenario? Are these people you're working with? Or it

969
00:45:57,960 --> 00:45:59,000
Speaker 5: is the people she's working with.

970
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:01,520
Speaker 1: It's me. I'm like, hey, what'd you get that big

971
00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:03,240
Speaker 1: old buck, You couldn't.

972
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:06,600
Speaker 4: He can't tell you, right, Steve would be like, boy,

973
00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:08,480
Speaker 4: it looks like cal had a pretty good weekend.

974
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:10,719
Speaker 1: Where was that? Where where was he?

975
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:11,680
Speaker 3: Right?

976
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:16,920
Speaker 4: Okay, So then because there's this totally other scenarios, like

977
00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:21,120
Speaker 4: fishing scenario that we have in common, Steve is gracious

978
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:23,879
Speaker 4: enough to lend out his boat from time to time.

979
00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:29,640
Speaker 4: We're fishing a lot of the same spots, and in

980
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:35,040
Speaker 4: that scenario, I'm like, hey, this is what happened, this

981
00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:36,560
Speaker 4: is where I was, and this is what I was

982
00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:37,320
Speaker 4: using because.

983
00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:39,879
Speaker 1: It was my damn boat. Yeah, I said, if I said,

984
00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:46,759
Speaker 1: where did you take my boat? Yeah, that'd be weird.

985
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:50,759
Speaker 3: Said, he's gonna throw like a tracker in it, you know.

986
00:46:50,719 --> 00:46:53,239
Speaker 1: And let's let's set you a different one. No.

987
00:46:53,239 --> 00:46:56,359
Speaker 5: No, But what I would end it with is one

988
00:46:56,880 --> 00:46:58,960
Speaker 5: it's it's lighthearted, right, So I would come up with

989
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:00,799
Speaker 5: some kind of phrase that it's really more of a

990
00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:03,640
Speaker 5: humorous joke for you, whether it's like, oh I just

991
00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:07,839
Speaker 5: went down to Mystery City or whatever it was. If

992
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:10,920
Speaker 5: you're making it a joke that way, it's not her

993
00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:14,560
Speaker 5: taking it like it's serious. So that's kind of like

994
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:18,080
Speaker 5: a code when I tell you it's here. It's because

995
00:47:18,239 --> 00:47:20,839
Speaker 5: I'm telling you because I can't let anybody know. It's

996
00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:22,359
Speaker 5: not that I don't want you to know. I just can't.

997
00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:22,759
Speaker 5: I can't.

998
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:25,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, We've built that joke with our kids where I'll

999
00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:27,040
Speaker 1: joke with my kids like tell them it's where none

1000
00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:28,440
Speaker 1: your creek flows into business.

1001
00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:29,520
Speaker 5: There we are exactly.

1002
00:47:29,600 --> 00:47:29,759
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1003
00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:32,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, So a lot of the times humor just adding

1004
00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:33,960
Speaker 5: in a little bit of a joke, like if I

1005
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:37,040
Speaker 5: need to, you know, like a grandparent. So this is

1006
00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:39,279
Speaker 5: the first time I go into my grandparents' house and

1007
00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:42,440
Speaker 5: I remember asking my grandmother. You know, my mama said,

1008
00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:44,600
Speaker 5: where's Papov? And she said, ah, he's in his office.

1009
00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:47,759
Speaker 5: That meant he was in the bathroom. And so it

1010
00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:50,160
Speaker 5: was just a way of like when company was around,

1011
00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:53,160
Speaker 5: not letting them know where he was. And so or

1012
00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:54,680
Speaker 5: somebody says, where'd you get that? You go out? It

1013
00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:56,279
Speaker 5: just fell off the back of a truck, is what

1014
00:47:56,280 --> 00:47:58,960
Speaker 5: we would typically say. If I don't want to express

1015
00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:01,600
Speaker 5: in somebody, so find some on a metaphor that is

1016
00:48:01,640 --> 00:48:02,480
Speaker 5: also cod it.

1017
00:48:02,560 --> 00:48:05,680
Speaker 4: Also implies that you, I see you have a wedding ring, right,

1018
00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:08,640
Speaker 4: that your brand of humor must not wear off over

1019
00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:10,920
Speaker 4: the time it doesn't.

1020
00:48:13,040 --> 00:48:14,920
Speaker 5: That's funny, that's funny.

1021
00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:22,440
Speaker 1: Okay, here's one. All right, you have a buddy, Okay,

1022
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:25,120
Speaker 1: you're a duck hunter. I'll putting soul. Yeah, you have

1023
00:48:25,160 --> 00:48:29,440
Speaker 1: a buddy who is learning to call, learning the duck call.

1024
00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:34,719
Speaker 1: They're terrible. You feel that this calling they're doing and

1025
00:48:34,360 --> 00:48:37,960
Speaker 1: they insist on calling a lot. Yeah, and it's just

1026
00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:43,000
Speaker 1: it's like fingernails on a chalkboard to you. They're trying

1027
00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:46,120
Speaker 1: to learn, Yeah, but it's not working right now?

1028
00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:46,560
Speaker 5: Right?

1029
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:50,240
Speaker 1: How do you? How do you? How do you?

1030
00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:54,759
Speaker 5: How do you approach that? Yeah? So I would I would, Uh,

1031
00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:57,200
Speaker 5: it's funny because I've probably been that other kid learned

1032
00:48:57,320 --> 00:49:02,200
Speaker 5: how to start doing duck calls. I would begin with

1033
00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:05,400
Speaker 5: this phrase. I'm telling you this because like a lot

1034
00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:06,960
Speaker 5: of time we're not sure does he use that?

1035
00:49:07,080 --> 00:49:07,279
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1036
00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:10,200
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, definitely, Yeah, because a lot of times.

1037
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:11,640
Speaker 1: You don't know. My hackles are up already.

1038
00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:12,160
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1039
00:49:12,760 --> 00:49:14,719
Speaker 5: I'm telling you because I'm telling you. It's because I

1040
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:16,479
Speaker 5: love you. I'm telling you it's because you're my best friend.

1041
00:49:16,480 --> 00:49:20,959
Speaker 5: I'm telling you because I know you're really excited about

1042
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:23,880
Speaker 5: this game call like whatever it is, whatever it is,

1043
00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:25,839
Speaker 5: a lot of times people just don't know why you're

1044
00:49:25,840 --> 00:49:26,640
Speaker 5: telling them things.

1045
00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:28,800
Speaker 1: You start talking and then.

1046
00:49:28,680 --> 00:49:30,719
Speaker 8: You say, like, I'm telling you this because we're here

1047
00:49:30,760 --> 00:49:32,839
Speaker 8: to kill ducks. And if you keep calling we're not

1048
00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:34,960
Speaker 8: gonna kill that's a you know what.

1049
00:49:34,960 --> 00:49:38,000
Speaker 5: I yeah, even if it's a wee thing, I'm telling

1050
00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:40,320
Speaker 5: you this because we're here to kill the most amount

1051
00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:43,360
Speaker 5: of ducks we can. What you're doing, it's probably not

1052
00:49:43,360 --> 00:49:45,359
Speaker 5: the best strategy right now, like just.

1053
00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:47,040
Speaker 1: Come flat out yeah.

1054
00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:50,759
Speaker 5: Yeah. When you're when you're super indirect, I feel it's

1055
00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:53,799
Speaker 5: also like, if it's a hunting buddy, this is the

1056
00:49:53,800 --> 00:49:57,960
Speaker 5: person who we speak very direct. I mean, if it's

1057
00:49:58,200 --> 00:50:02,640
Speaker 5: me and another guy, it's direct. Conversation is usually not

1058
00:50:02,680 --> 00:50:05,239
Speaker 5: that much of a struggle for two dudes who I've

1059
00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:07,279
Speaker 5: just become really close. Because when you have a hunting buddy,

1060
00:50:07,280 --> 00:50:09,160
Speaker 5: I mean, you can do just about You talk about

1061
00:50:09,160 --> 00:50:11,480
Speaker 5: everything when you're in the blind or in the stand,

1062
00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:14,800
Speaker 5: and so conversation happens. So it's I wouldn't skirt around

1063
00:50:14,800 --> 00:50:16,279
Speaker 5: it at all. But when you say I'm telling you this,

1064
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:19,400
Speaker 5: because a lot of times it's it's the work is

1065
00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:23,200
Speaker 5: for you. I guess it works both ways. It's I'm

1066
00:50:23,239 --> 00:50:25,399
Speaker 5: one I'm talking about the goal of what I'm wanting

1067
00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:27,759
Speaker 5: to say, because most people wait until they're talking to

1068
00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:30,440
Speaker 5: figure out what they actually want to say. And then

1069
00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:32,520
Speaker 5: at the other side, I'm telling the person why I'm

1070
00:50:32,560 --> 00:50:34,840
Speaker 5: telling them that. I mean, you can say X, Y

1071
00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:36,759
Speaker 5: and Z, but they're not sure what the point is

1072
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:38,719
Speaker 5: behind it. Yeah, I'd put it out as flat as

1073
00:50:38,719 --> 00:50:39,000
Speaker 5: you can.

1074
00:50:39,480 --> 00:50:40,560
Speaker 1: Let me complexify it.

1075
00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:41,440
Speaker 5: Wonderful.

1076
00:50:41,719 --> 00:50:46,360
Speaker 1: There's other individuals present, Yeah, it's everybody doesn't really know

1077
00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:48,640
Speaker 1: each other that well. Okay, So here you are in

1078
00:50:48,640 --> 00:50:52,000
Speaker 1: a situation like I want to show everybody a good time,

1079
00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:54,400
Speaker 1: which means having some success because they're going to enjoy

1080
00:50:54,440 --> 00:50:57,960
Speaker 1: that at the same time I do I Am I

1081
00:50:57,960 --> 00:50:59,759
Speaker 1: going to humiliate this guy in front of all these

1082
00:50:59,800 --> 00:51:00,360
Speaker 1: other people?

1083
00:51:00,520 --> 00:51:04,680
Speaker 5: Mm hmm. So yeah, I would. I definitely wouldn't. That

1084
00:51:04,920 --> 00:51:08,239
Speaker 5: wouldn't be your default there. I would pass it a

1085
00:51:09,120 --> 00:51:12,799
Speaker 5: toss up, toss it up as a question to them,

1086
00:51:13,080 --> 00:51:16,880
Speaker 5: or even saying maybe, like give them them a choice.

1087
00:51:16,880 --> 00:51:19,520
Speaker 5: So even if you say something like, hey, so maybe

1088
00:51:19,520 --> 00:51:21,719
Speaker 5: we I want to I like how you're calling them.

1089
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:23,680
Speaker 5: Let's maybe wait until we're doing X, Y and Z.

1090
00:51:24,320 --> 00:51:28,719
Speaker 5: Or let's say you wanted to stop altogether and just say, hey,

1091
00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:31,000
Speaker 5: I have some ideas for you on the game call.

1092
00:51:31,080 --> 00:51:32,759
Speaker 5: Can you I need you to hold off for a

1093
00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:35,479
Speaker 5: few X, Y and Z a few passes and we'll

1094
00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:37,600
Speaker 5: try later on the afternoon, maybe when they're not coming

1095
00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:38,080
Speaker 5: in as hard.

1096
00:51:38,520 --> 00:51:41,319
Speaker 8: So I mean, like, could you be could you be

1097
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:44,319
Speaker 8: like sneaky about it and be like, listen, you need

1098
00:51:44,360 --> 00:51:45,600
Speaker 8: to listen to this guy.

1099
00:51:45,480 --> 00:51:46,320
Speaker 4: Call for a while?

1100
00:51:47,160 --> 00:51:50,879
Speaker 5: Yeah for sure. Yeah, absolutely, ain't nothing wrong with that.

1101
00:51:51,080 --> 00:51:55,759
Speaker 5: I mean I think anytime you're also using that as

1102
00:51:55,760 --> 00:51:57,719
Speaker 5: like a teaching opportunity because they're trying to get better

1103
00:51:57,760 --> 00:52:01,560
Speaker 5: at it. Yeah, I mean, because I know I have

1104
00:52:02,280 --> 00:52:07,960
Speaker 5: two cousins of mine that they will they guide over

1105
00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:12,400
Speaker 5: in Lake Caddo, which is North Texas, and yeah, they'll

1106
00:52:12,440 --> 00:52:14,759
Speaker 5: go and sometimes while they were learning, we'd be with

1107
00:52:15,040 --> 00:52:17,440
Speaker 5: a real guide out and duck hunting or something. And

1108
00:52:17,480 --> 00:52:19,640
Speaker 5: because they think that they've done a few guides, they're

1109
00:52:19,719 --> 00:52:22,000
Speaker 5: just as good as they are. And the real guide

1110
00:52:22,080 --> 00:52:24,319
Speaker 5: that who were paying is God. Can y'all we need

1111
00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:28,120
Speaker 5: y'all knock it off? And so you know what I've

1112
00:52:28,120 --> 00:52:29,640
Speaker 5: heard them go, just go, hey, guys, I need you

1113
00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:31,360
Speaker 5: to hold off for a little bit. And then he

1114
00:52:31,400 --> 00:52:35,480
Speaker 5: just never tells them when to come back on, you know,

1115
00:52:35,800 --> 00:52:37,960
Speaker 5: but that's how they That's also how they learned. So

1116
00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:41,839
Speaker 5: everybody's been around that. So it's I do like it.

1117
00:52:41,840 --> 00:52:44,000
Speaker 5: It can be really forgiving it, just you can't do

1118
00:52:44,080 --> 00:52:46,319
Speaker 5: it at a time where let's say everybody's got their

1119
00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:49,080
Speaker 5: schedule together. You spent money on all of this stuff.

1120
00:52:49,360 --> 00:52:52,480
Speaker 5: You're here to achieve a goal, and uh so if

1121
00:52:52,719 --> 00:52:55,920
Speaker 5: they're hurting that goal, you need to tell them.

1122
00:52:56,160 --> 00:52:58,759
Speaker 1: So you you never you wouldn't recommend just letting it be.

1123
00:52:59,600 --> 00:53:02,160
Speaker 1: You got to you you recognize the need to address it.

1124
00:53:02,560 --> 00:53:04,920
Speaker 5: Definitely. Yeah, well there's some things I would let be.

1125
00:53:05,080 --> 00:53:07,479
Speaker 5: But if it's just they're blowing the call and they're

1126
00:53:07,719 --> 00:53:10,920
Speaker 5: if they're if they're blowing the ducks, I mean, then yeah,

1127
00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:14,440
Speaker 5: I would definitely be saying something, who's got this one?

1128
00:53:14,880 --> 00:53:18,279
Speaker 8: This one's mine. This has happened to me at more

1129
00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:21,839
Speaker 8: than once, and it'll often come down to who can

1130
00:53:22,160 --> 00:53:26,240
Speaker 8: get their stuff together fastest and start running up the trail.

1131
00:53:26,320 --> 00:53:29,279
Speaker 8: But you arrive at the trailhead a parking spot at

1132
00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:32,800
Speaker 8: the same time as a complete stranger, and there's already

1133
00:53:32,840 --> 00:53:35,960
Speaker 8: tension in the air. How to address who's gonna hunt where,

1134
00:53:36,400 --> 00:53:39,960
Speaker 8: especially when you've got like a specific spot already in

1135
00:53:40,040 --> 00:53:41,560
Speaker 8: mind that you're going to.

1136
00:53:41,600 --> 00:53:44,239
Speaker 5: Mm hm and they and they're going to the same sort.

1137
00:53:44,320 --> 00:53:47,920
Speaker 8: Well, well it's either you raise them, get ahead of

1138
00:53:47,960 --> 00:53:51,040
Speaker 8: them without saying a word to get to your spot,

1139
00:53:51,280 --> 00:53:54,520
Speaker 8: or you decide to have a conversation with them and say,

1140
00:53:54,520 --> 00:53:57,160
Speaker 8: who's going where I've got? Like how do you? How

1141
00:53:57,200 --> 00:53:59,440
Speaker 8: do you get to where? You're like, I'm going to

1142
00:53:59,520 --> 00:54:00,600
Speaker 8: this spot?

1143
00:54:01,440 --> 00:54:03,600
Speaker 5: You shouldn't you shouldn't.

1144
00:54:03,840 --> 00:54:05,920
Speaker 1: Well, no, no, you tell the other guy they shouldn't

1145
00:54:05,960 --> 00:54:06,080
Speaker 1: go to.

1146
00:54:07,840 --> 00:54:08,080
Speaker 2: Picture.

1147
00:54:08,080 --> 00:54:10,200
Speaker 1: You had a boat launch, Okay, okay, okay, it's like

1148
00:54:10,520 --> 00:54:12,959
Speaker 1: pre it's like duck season. We had a boat launch.

1149
00:54:13,040 --> 00:54:16,359
Speaker 1: Most people that launch boats in this place are going

1150
00:54:16,400 --> 00:54:19,319
Speaker 1: to X place. Correct, there's another guy launching right next

1151
00:54:19,360 --> 00:54:19,720
Speaker 1: to you.

1152
00:54:19,800 --> 00:54:20,040
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1153
00:54:20,120 --> 00:54:22,439
Speaker 1: You could either be like, well not, I'm just gonna

1154
00:54:22,440 --> 00:54:23,080
Speaker 1: act like he's not.

1155
00:54:23,080 --> 00:54:25,000
Speaker 8: Here and just tear ass out of there.

1156
00:54:25,080 --> 00:54:28,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, or you'd be like, let's go. Yeah, so like, hey,

1157
00:54:29,080 --> 00:54:31,360
Speaker 1: you know, where are you headed? Because I'm thinking about.

1158
00:54:31,360 --> 00:54:36,480
Speaker 5: Yeah, I've I've seen it. Best work where you approach

1159
00:54:36,520 --> 00:54:39,440
Speaker 5: that person say hey, hey, you're heading out, heading out? Yeah,

1160
00:54:39,560 --> 00:54:41,440
Speaker 5: getting ready? We'll just have you know, a little bit

1161
00:54:41,480 --> 00:54:43,799
Speaker 5: of BS and then well you want to I think

1162
00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:45,480
Speaker 5: we should make a plan on, you know, where each

1163
00:54:45,480 --> 00:54:47,839
Speaker 5: other are going. So another It's one of these things

1164
00:54:47,840 --> 00:54:50,319
Speaker 5: where it's always good to just say we instead of hey,

1165
00:54:50,320 --> 00:54:53,120
Speaker 5: where you going and they're gonna go. I don't know

1166
00:54:53,160 --> 00:54:54,200
Speaker 5: if I should tell you.

1167
00:54:54,120 --> 00:54:56,840
Speaker 8: Yeah, because I've I've done it where I've you know,

1168
00:54:56,920 --> 00:54:59,680
Speaker 8: approached a person and I've said where are you thinking

1169
00:54:59,680 --> 00:55:02,959
Speaker 8: about going? Right, and then they'll say the spot where

1170
00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:04,680
Speaker 8: I was, And then I'm in a pickle. Right if

1171
00:55:04,680 --> 00:55:06,919
Speaker 8: they were planning on going where I was, then I'm

1172
00:55:06,920 --> 00:55:09,560
Speaker 8: like then I got to be like, okay, go ahead.

1173
00:55:09,920 --> 00:55:11,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, I like that, like, hey, what should we do here?

1174
00:55:11,880 --> 00:55:16,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, whenever you can say kind of you're acknowledging that

1175
00:55:16,080 --> 00:55:18,680
Speaker 5: they're they're there, I wouldn't just ignore them. But I

1176
00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:22,399
Speaker 5: think it shows a lot of maturity too, just as

1177
00:55:22,400 --> 00:55:25,160
Speaker 5: a mature hunter to go up to the person introduce yourself,

1178
00:55:25,520 --> 00:55:28,239
Speaker 5: because you're getting to meet another person and be another hunter. Great,

1179
00:55:28,280 --> 00:55:31,640
Speaker 5: that's another good contact for you because there are always

1180
00:55:31,640 --> 00:55:35,239
Speaker 5: another set of eyes and ears on what's happening. And

1181
00:55:35,560 --> 00:55:37,600
Speaker 5: if you could say, hey, I think we should I

1182
00:55:37,600 --> 00:55:39,600
Speaker 5: think you okay with us making a plan and where

1183
00:55:39,640 --> 00:55:41,919
Speaker 5: each other are going. They're most likely going to say yeah,

1184
00:55:41,960 --> 00:55:43,560
Speaker 5: or even if you recommend it, I think we should

1185
00:55:43,560 --> 00:55:45,400
Speaker 5: have a plan on. Let's make a game plan if

1186
00:55:45,440 --> 00:55:47,279
Speaker 5: that's all right with you, and where we're going, and

1187
00:55:47,360 --> 00:55:50,120
Speaker 5: then they'll typically well, I think about going X, Y,

1188
00:55:50,160 --> 00:55:52,279
Speaker 5: and Z, or they might just say yeah, that sounds good,

1189
00:55:52,320 --> 00:55:54,200
Speaker 5: and that gives you the chance to say, I think

1190
00:55:54,200 --> 00:55:56,759
Speaker 5: I'm going to head off, you know, disurrection going to

1191
00:55:56,840 --> 00:55:59,040
Speaker 5: cut east around the bind there and then just land

1192
00:55:59,040 --> 00:56:01,520
Speaker 5: somewhere around there. If they're going the same place, then

1193
00:56:01,560 --> 00:56:05,440
Speaker 5: that's a different that's a different scenario, depends if you're

1194
00:56:05,480 --> 00:56:09,399
Speaker 5: really wanting to It's kind of like whoever says it first, yeah,

1195
00:56:09,440 --> 00:56:10,560
Speaker 5: you know, whoever kind of claims it.

1196
00:56:10,680 --> 00:56:13,560
Speaker 8: I never want I've always been like, where are you going,

1197
00:56:13,640 --> 00:56:15,640
Speaker 8: rather than I'm going here.

1198
00:56:15,560 --> 00:56:18,719
Speaker 5: Exactly, you know what I mean. Yeah, I've definitely heard

1199
00:56:18,719 --> 00:56:20,279
Speaker 5: those kind of people say, well, I'm going this way,

1200
00:56:20,280 --> 00:56:21,879
Speaker 5: I don't know where you're going this where I'm going,

1201
00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:25,360
Speaker 5: meaning don't even don't even think about going that direction.

1202
00:56:26,120 --> 00:56:30,720
Speaker 5: Because I think hunters in particular, as part of the

1203
00:56:30,719 --> 00:56:35,400
Speaker 5: the nature of it all, were very territorial, sure, very dominant.

1204
00:56:35,520 --> 00:56:37,840
Speaker 5: It's whatever we can to mark our territory, our fishing

1205
00:56:37,880 --> 00:56:39,040
Speaker 5: spot or whatever it is.

1206
00:56:39,120 --> 00:56:40,560
Speaker 1: So you know, how I got out of this most

1207
00:56:40,640 --> 00:56:43,279
Speaker 1: recently was that me and my kid were el Cointon.

1208
00:56:43,320 --> 00:56:45,560
Speaker 1: We had this whole plan put together and then we

1209
00:56:45,600 --> 00:56:47,760
Speaker 1: get there and there's a truck park there, the trucks

1210
00:56:47,760 --> 00:56:50,440
Speaker 1: still running, there's guys in it. So I said to

1211
00:56:50,440 --> 00:56:51,800
Speaker 1: my kid, I say, hey, go ask those guys what

1212
00:56:51,840 --> 00:56:57,680
Speaker 1: they're doing, because I hate those conversations. Yeah, he came

1213
00:56:57,680 --> 00:56:58,480
Speaker 1: back with the report.

1214
00:56:59,040 --> 00:57:00,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, it was. It helped.

1215
00:57:00,480 --> 00:57:03,040
Speaker 1: Well, they were doing exactly they had exactly, They saw

1216
00:57:03,120 --> 00:57:04,080
Speaker 1: exactly what we had.

1217
00:57:04,000 --> 00:57:06,160
Speaker 5: Seen, and they were doing the same thing. Well, not

1218
00:57:06,239 --> 00:57:09,279
Speaker 5: everybody can have their own scout, you know, but.

1219
00:57:09,360 --> 00:57:12,520
Speaker 1: Had, So here's the deal with that approach. Where are

1220
00:57:12,560 --> 00:57:15,160
Speaker 1: you going? They said where they're going? And he comes

1221
00:57:15,160 --> 00:57:17,160
Speaker 1: back and tells where they're going, and we just went

1222
00:57:17,200 --> 00:57:20,320
Speaker 1: to plan B. Had I gone up and said, hey,

1223
00:57:20,320 --> 00:57:21,840
Speaker 1: we should since we're both here at the same time,

1224
00:57:21,840 --> 00:57:22,840
Speaker 1: we should make a little plan.

1225
00:57:23,320 --> 00:57:25,400
Speaker 5: Yeah. I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

1226
00:57:25,440 --> 00:57:27,920
Speaker 1: It's because I with the way I approached it. It

1227
00:57:27,960 --> 00:57:30,200
Speaker 1: was like I made it. I made it sort of

1228
00:57:30,200 --> 00:57:31,840
Speaker 1: binary and lost out right.

1229
00:57:32,160 --> 00:57:35,480
Speaker 8: But there's also like this like unwritten rule kind of

1230
00:57:35,520 --> 00:57:38,720
Speaker 8: sort of where like if you get to a trailhead

1231
00:57:38,880 --> 00:57:41,880
Speaker 8: and there's someone even if they got their thirty seconds

1232
00:57:41,880 --> 00:57:45,160
Speaker 8: before you, it's like, well they were here first, right,

1233
00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:45,960
Speaker 8: I mean.

1234
00:57:45,920 --> 00:57:49,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, But that depends a lot on like what kind

1235
00:57:49,280 --> 00:57:52,680
Speaker 1: of sit like, yeah, trailhead, what kind of boat launch,

1236
00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:55,240
Speaker 1: But it's there, it can be there. But if it's

1237
00:57:55,240 --> 00:57:57,520
Speaker 1: like a boat launch and there's like tons of people, yeah,

1238
00:57:57,560 --> 00:58:00,760
Speaker 1: it's just different rules than if it's like some weird bridge.

1239
00:58:01,680 --> 00:58:05,760
Speaker 8: Morning and the guy like you know where the gobblers are?

1240
00:58:06,200 --> 00:58:09,000
Speaker 5: Yeah. I just think if you if you approach the conversation,

1241
00:58:09,080 --> 00:58:11,080
Speaker 5: you can put however terms you want. But if you say,

1242
00:58:11,280 --> 00:58:13,640
Speaker 5: you know, hey, we're both here for a good hunt

1243
00:58:13,640 --> 00:58:16,400
Speaker 5: this morning, let's let's make a plan out where we're going,

1244
00:58:17,200 --> 00:58:19,840
Speaker 5: and and it just opens you up for really the

1245
00:58:19,880 --> 00:58:22,600
Speaker 5: whole goal. That's it's another relationship that you could have

1246
00:58:22,680 --> 00:58:26,480
Speaker 5: with this person because you're gonna know them, and next

1247
00:58:26,480 --> 00:58:28,880
Speaker 5: time you see them again, you're gonna know who they are,

1248
00:58:29,080 --> 00:58:32,160
Speaker 5: and it's you're meeting them really for the next time. Yeah,

1249
00:58:32,280 --> 00:58:33,360
Speaker 5: that's that's why you're meeting them.

1250
00:58:33,400 --> 00:58:35,800
Speaker 6: Yeah, I've got I've got a guy that I've run

1251
00:58:35,840 --> 00:58:38,400
Speaker 6: into bear hunting and we ran into each other like

1252
00:58:38,480 --> 00:58:43,680
Speaker 6: two springs in a row, and then just over time.

1253
00:58:45,000 --> 00:58:46,160
Speaker 5: Where I see him and I'm like.

1254
00:58:46,160 --> 00:58:48,880
Speaker 1: Hey, howre's it going. And then one time we ended up.

1255
00:58:48,800 --> 00:58:52,000
Speaker 6: Shooting an elk out there and uh, we didn't have

1256
00:58:52,120 --> 00:58:54,480
Speaker 6: enough game bags with us, and I texted the guy

1257
00:58:54,920 --> 00:58:56,560
Speaker 6: and he's like, oh, they got him in the basement

1258
00:58:56,560 --> 00:58:58,680
Speaker 6: of the hardware store. Just go down to the basement

1259
00:58:58,680 --> 00:58:59,520
Speaker 6: and they've got bags.

1260
00:58:59,560 --> 00:58:59,800
Speaker 1: Really.

1261
00:59:00,080 --> 00:59:01,480
Speaker 5: Uh, yeah, it's funny.

1262
00:59:01,480 --> 00:59:03,600
Speaker 6: It's like I've never met him outside of the context

1263
00:59:03,600 --> 00:59:06,080
Speaker 6: of two trucks on a forest service road, and most

1264
00:59:06,120 --> 00:59:08,760
Speaker 6: people that I encounter in that way, I think that

1265
00:59:08,800 --> 00:59:09,480
Speaker 6: they're an asshole.

1266
00:59:10,320 --> 00:59:10,840
Speaker 5: That funny.

1267
00:59:11,640 --> 00:59:16,480
Speaker 1: John John Garros, the late John Garrox line was similar.

1268
00:59:16,480 --> 00:59:19,000
Speaker 1: He said, there's two kinds of fishermen. Yeah, there's the

1269
00:59:19,040 --> 00:59:20,480
Speaker 1: guys you're with in the assholes.

1270
00:59:23,400 --> 00:59:26,400
Speaker 5: That's very true. Yeah, it's it's very easy to us

1271
00:59:26,480 --> 00:59:28,560
Speaker 5: us versus them, And you just apply that to you

1272
00:59:28,600 --> 00:59:30,600
Speaker 5: can apply to the business context. You think of that

1273
00:59:30,720 --> 00:59:32,920
Speaker 5: as anything else that's the same way. And I think

1274
00:59:32,960 --> 00:59:37,720
Speaker 5: there's also the kind of natural element of we're competing

1275
00:59:38,080 --> 00:59:41,240
Speaker 5: for the same animal. Yeah, you know, the sense of

1276
00:59:41,280 --> 00:59:44,360
Speaker 5: who's going to be the best warrior out there. Yeah,

1277
00:59:44,440 --> 00:59:46,760
Speaker 5: and so it's very easy to get confrontational with people.

1278
00:59:46,960 --> 00:59:49,680
Speaker 4: Steve brings up a good scenario. I've told you guys

1279
00:59:49,840 --> 00:59:53,600
Speaker 4: this one before, but it's just like an afterwork, right,

1280
00:59:54,320 --> 00:59:58,880
Speaker 4: And I was always like very prepared, so because I

1281
00:59:58,880 --> 01:00:01,400
Speaker 4: did not want to have any any sort of human

1282
01:00:01,440 --> 01:00:04,480
Speaker 4: interaction when I got to my spot, so I'd have

1283
01:00:04,720 --> 01:00:07,720
Speaker 4: like my backpack fully rigged up and all I had

1284
01:00:07,720 --> 01:00:12,000
Speaker 4: to do is just throw on my back and go right.

1285
01:00:12,840 --> 01:00:19,360
Speaker 4: It was just to minimize these scenarios. And this is

1286
01:00:19,560 --> 01:00:24,640
Speaker 4: really really steep country. And this car pulls up, guy

1287
01:00:24,680 --> 01:00:27,680
Speaker 4: and a kid and guys, hey, where are you going?

1288
01:00:28,000 --> 01:00:33,000
Speaker 4: I said, oh, I'm going up on this ridge and

1289
01:00:33,480 --> 01:00:36,080
Speaker 4: you go, oh, well, I'm that's where I'm where my

1290
01:00:36,160 --> 01:00:39,080
Speaker 4: kid's going, just dropping them off. And it was just

1291
01:00:39,080 --> 01:00:42,160
Speaker 4: one of those things where I was like, well, if

1292
01:00:42,160 --> 01:00:43,800
Speaker 4: you had a plan, you probably should have said that

1293
01:00:43,840 --> 01:00:48,840
Speaker 4: instead of asking and be that kid might get part

1294
01:00:48,840 --> 01:00:51,320
Speaker 4: of the way up that thing. There's no no, like,

1295
01:00:51,360 --> 01:00:55,560
Speaker 4: there's just not. It wasn't in the realm of a

1296
01:00:55,760 --> 01:00:57,160
Speaker 4: realistic possibility that.

1297
01:00:57,520 --> 01:01:02,360
Speaker 1: Let me see the kid, yeah where Yeah.

1298
01:01:01,920 --> 01:01:04,880
Speaker 4: And so I just left it. I said, okay, Well,

1299
01:01:04,880 --> 01:01:06,560
Speaker 4: I'll see him up there and if you get something,

1300
01:01:06,600 --> 01:01:07,320
Speaker 4: I'll help him out.

1301
01:01:07,840 --> 01:01:10,360
Speaker 5: Yeah, and that's a perfect response. That was kind of yeah, Well,

1302
01:01:10,400 --> 01:01:12,640
Speaker 5: it's so funny because like where I'm at, we don't

1303
01:01:12,680 --> 01:01:14,800
Speaker 5: there's no public plan. I mean, just don't. You just

1304
01:01:14,840 --> 01:01:15,880
Speaker 5: don't have that available.

1305
01:01:15,960 --> 01:01:17,600
Speaker 1: So it's a whole other conversation.

1306
01:01:18,240 --> 01:01:20,400
Speaker 4: Dad in this scenario did not find that to be

1307
01:01:20,440 --> 01:01:21,480
Speaker 4: the perfect response.

1308
01:01:21,600 --> 01:01:24,640
Speaker 5: Yeah, well I can't imagine. Yeah, I can imagine. But

1309
01:01:24,680 --> 01:01:26,480
Speaker 5: that's one of the reason why I love listening to

1310
01:01:26,720 --> 01:01:29,320
Speaker 5: this podcast is because you talk about the public land stuff.

1311
01:01:29,080 --> 01:01:31,960
Speaker 1: Were power, there are powers that be Yeah, they would

1312
01:01:31,960 --> 01:01:33,840
Speaker 1: prefer that no one had a public plan.

1313
01:01:34,080 --> 01:01:36,640
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's unreal. It's unreal to me.

1314
01:01:36,720 --> 01:01:38,120
Speaker 1: Spencer hit him with the mushroom question.

1315
01:01:38,880 --> 01:01:41,720
Speaker 7: This is like a legal one. What if I serve

1316
01:01:41,840 --> 01:01:46,560
Speaker 7: someone mushrooms that get them really sick? Can they sue me?

1317
01:01:46,760 --> 01:01:46,840
Speaker 3: Like?

1318
01:01:46,880 --> 01:01:47,120
Speaker 5: Am I?

1319
01:01:47,440 --> 01:01:49,520
Speaker 7: Can I get in trouble? Phil comes over for a

1320
01:01:49,520 --> 01:01:52,360
Speaker 7: dinner party. I serve him a delicious meal of mushrooms.

1321
01:01:52,360 --> 01:01:54,240
Speaker 7: But they weren't the mushroom I thought they were.

1322
01:01:54,320 --> 01:01:56,280
Speaker 3: Oh, so you don't own a restaurant.

1323
01:01:55,760 --> 01:02:00,160
Speaker 4: And Spencer used his words proactively to avoid.

1324
01:02:01,040 --> 01:02:04,480
Speaker 7: I think they're chantrell. But it turns out they're a

1325
01:02:04,560 --> 01:02:08,960
Speaker 7: jackal lantern and then of those types of ushroomsyeah gets

1326
01:02:08,960 --> 01:02:12,120
Speaker 7: you real poison, this gets you real sick. Could I

1327
01:02:12,120 --> 01:02:12,880
Speaker 7: get in trouble for that?

1328
01:02:13,440 --> 01:02:15,680
Speaker 5: Yeah, you could if they wanted to see Yeah, I

1329
01:02:15,680 --> 01:02:18,560
Speaker 5: mean if a private home. Yeah, even if like let's

1330
01:02:18,560 --> 01:02:23,280
Speaker 5: say you somehow they were on your back porch balcony,

1331
01:02:23,520 --> 01:02:26,920
Speaker 5: uh huh, and they were leaning against a rail and

1332
01:02:26,960 --> 01:02:29,680
Speaker 5: that was a rail that you knew you needed to fix,

1333
01:02:30,280 --> 01:02:32,120
Speaker 5: but you didn't tell them and they leaned on it

1334
01:02:32,160 --> 01:02:33,960
Speaker 5: and just fell off and broke their neck. Oh yeah,

1335
01:02:34,000 --> 01:02:36,560
Speaker 5: they can see you. That's why you have homeowners insurance

1336
01:02:36,560 --> 01:02:41,560
Speaker 5: hopefully so, because it's even though you're technically they have

1337
01:02:41,600 --> 01:02:44,520
Speaker 5: different types of people who come on to a premise,

1338
01:02:44,960 --> 01:02:50,360
Speaker 5: and you have licensees, you have guests and invitees, and

1339
01:02:50,440 --> 01:02:52,560
Speaker 5: it all depends on the purpose of why you're there.

1340
01:02:52,640 --> 01:02:56,560
Speaker 5: So like as a here, like I come here, if

1341
01:02:56,600 --> 01:02:59,080
Speaker 5: I I trip on something, I'm not coming up with

1342
01:02:59,120 --> 01:03:09,000
Speaker 5: any ideas, you know, Yeah, yeahs Phil, are these wires? Okay? Yeah,

1343
01:03:09,040 --> 01:03:12,520
Speaker 5: it's if you came there for the purpose of somebody else. Yeah,

1344
01:03:12,560 --> 01:03:14,400
Speaker 5: you can't. You can't be ill liable now there's going

1345
01:03:14,480 --> 01:03:16,880
Speaker 5: to be a big difference for you. Well, let's say

1346
01:03:16,880 --> 01:03:19,760
Speaker 5: you can sue them, yes, would you probably have likelihood

1347
01:03:19,800 --> 01:03:21,520
Speaker 5: of recovery? Probably not. Also, would you ever have a

1348
01:03:21,520 --> 01:03:22,520
Speaker 5: friend again with this person?

1349
01:03:22,600 --> 01:03:22,760
Speaker 3: Though?

1350
01:03:23,160 --> 01:03:25,760
Speaker 7: What what if I, like gave fill the mushrooms and

1351
01:03:25,760 --> 01:03:27,400
Speaker 7: he took them home and cooked them. Like I think

1352
01:03:27,400 --> 01:03:30,800
Speaker 7: phil that these are shantrails, but they were jackal lanterns.

1353
01:03:30,640 --> 01:03:34,560
Speaker 5: It depends on your knowledge. So it goes to an

1354
01:03:34,560 --> 01:03:37,520
Speaker 5: element of knowledge. Did you have actual notice? Did you?

1355
01:03:38,200 --> 01:03:41,760
Speaker 5: What they would say is what they would call sufficient notice,

1356
01:03:41,800 --> 01:03:44,960
Speaker 5: like you knew or should have known, so that that

1357
01:03:45,040 --> 01:03:47,160
Speaker 5: should have known will get you. So if you knew

1358
01:03:47,200 --> 01:03:51,480
Speaker 5: they caused problems, then then yeah, that could definitely get

1359
01:03:51,480 --> 01:03:55,800
Speaker 5: you in trouble if you had no idea whatsoever. Or

1360
01:03:56,000 --> 01:03:58,360
Speaker 5: let's say they were illegal to have for whatever reason,

1361
01:03:58,400 --> 01:04:00,240
Speaker 5: so it doesn't matter if you had notice of whether

1362
01:04:00,280 --> 01:04:03,320
Speaker 5: they were good or bad for you. It's kind of

1363
01:04:03,360 --> 01:04:07,480
Speaker 5: like giving contraband for the notice of that's that's it's

1364
01:04:07,520 --> 01:04:11,360
Speaker 5: only intended purpose. So one of my favorite uh, just

1365
01:04:11,400 --> 01:04:13,080
Speaker 5: because this I know there's a little loft, but one

1366
01:04:13,120 --> 01:04:15,960
Speaker 5: of my favorite topics to talk about. So I wrote

1367
01:04:16,000 --> 01:04:19,400
Speaker 5: my in law school, you have different journals you can

1368
01:04:19,440 --> 01:04:23,480
Speaker 5: be on, and everybody wants to be on the law journal,

1369
01:04:23,480 --> 01:04:26,120
Speaker 5: which is the most the top of the writing where

1370
01:04:26,160 --> 01:04:29,760
Speaker 5: you write articles that get put into books. And I

1371
01:04:29,800 --> 01:04:32,840
Speaker 5: wrote mine on negligent and trustment of a handgun. I

1372
01:04:32,840 --> 01:04:36,840
Speaker 5: have a firearm. That was my that was my negligent trustment. Yeah, yeah,

1373
01:04:36,880 --> 01:04:41,600
Speaker 5: negligent and trustment of a firearm because you have there's

1374
01:04:41,640 --> 01:04:44,280
Speaker 5: just different states. It was really to talk about just

1375
01:04:44,320 --> 01:04:45,120
Speaker 5: the status of the law.

1376
01:04:45,160 --> 01:04:47,360
Speaker 1: Tell people like translate that for people. Yeah, yeah, so

1377
01:04:48,160 --> 01:04:52,640
Speaker 1: like entrustment of a firearm, but yeah, yeah, you're talking.

1378
01:04:52,480 --> 01:04:58,120
Speaker 5: About cool so meaning that you entrusted a firearm to

1379
01:04:58,920 --> 01:05:02,000
Speaker 5: let's say a sixteen year old son who you knew

1380
01:05:02,120 --> 01:05:06,800
Speaker 5: had proclivities for violence, who had had brought into the law,

1381
01:05:06,880 --> 01:05:10,760
Speaker 5: who played wore video games all the time, and they

1382
01:05:11,000 --> 01:05:12,760
Speaker 5: entrusted the gun to the sixteen year old, and the

1383
01:05:12,760 --> 01:05:15,960
Speaker 5: six year old committed a shot somebody. But that happens

1384
01:05:16,040 --> 01:05:19,360
Speaker 5: too of cases where there was one where a guy

1385
01:05:19,880 --> 01:05:22,560
Speaker 5: would have a had a firearm he kept in the office,

1386
01:05:22,880 --> 01:05:25,960
Speaker 5: and all the women in the office knew if they

1387
01:05:26,000 --> 01:05:28,680
Speaker 5: worked late at night, he had a gun in his desk.

1388
01:05:28,680 --> 01:05:30,840
Speaker 5: Should they need it for self defense. Well, one of

1389
01:05:30,840 --> 01:05:34,320
Speaker 5: the women was actually having an affair with that guy,

1390
01:05:35,840 --> 01:05:39,040
Speaker 5: and when she had an argument with her husband.

1391
01:05:40,240 --> 01:05:43,160
Speaker 1: To get your book, she exactly when.

1392
01:05:43,040 --> 01:05:45,040
Speaker 5: She had an argument with her husband, she went back

1393
01:05:45,040 --> 01:05:48,680
Speaker 5: to the office, grabbed that gun, went to her husband

1394
01:05:48,760 --> 01:05:51,720
Speaker 5: and shot him. And so it was a big legal question.

1395
01:05:52,520 --> 01:05:54,919
Speaker 5: So she didn't own the gun. He did. He left

1396
01:05:54,960 --> 01:05:58,080
Speaker 5: it accessible for her should he need it. But did

1397
01:05:58,080 --> 01:06:01,240
Speaker 5: he have the requisite knowledge give than that he knew

1398
01:06:01,240 --> 01:06:03,960
Speaker 5: that they were having marital problems. He knew that she

1399
01:06:04,000 --> 01:06:07,920
Speaker 5: had talked about shooting her husband. So like all this stuff,

1400
01:06:08,160 --> 01:06:10,160
Speaker 5: how it's not his fault.

1401
01:06:10,240 --> 01:06:12,200
Speaker 1: So that's the whole thing. That's that's the whole thing.

1402
01:06:12,240 --> 01:06:17,160
Speaker 5: So whether I'm say, you know, I know more facts

1403
01:06:17,200 --> 01:06:22,320
Speaker 5: on the case that he was very much involved with, Hey,

1404
01:06:22,320 --> 01:06:24,040
Speaker 5: you can have this coffee if you want, and I

1405
01:06:24,480 --> 01:06:26,320
Speaker 5: mean you can pour this coffee on him. That's fine. No,

1406
01:06:26,400 --> 01:06:28,960
Speaker 5: it's fine. You don't have to like continually pushing the

1407
01:06:29,600 --> 01:06:35,120
Speaker 5: gun and using the gotta Well, it actually went to

1408
01:06:35,160 --> 01:06:38,720
Speaker 5: the appellate court. The jury said yes, that he should.

1409
01:06:38,760 --> 01:06:41,800
Speaker 5: He was found liable for negligce and trust of a firearm.

1410
01:06:41,800 --> 01:06:44,040
Speaker 5: But the Pellet court in Texas said, no, there's No,

1411
01:06:44,200 --> 01:06:46,400
Speaker 5: it did not even recognize the cause of action. So

1412
01:06:46,520 --> 01:06:49,160
Speaker 5: my whole article was whether or not to recognize the

1413
01:06:49,200 --> 01:06:51,760
Speaker 5: cause of action. Now we recognize in Texas the cause

1414
01:06:51,800 --> 01:06:55,840
Speaker 5: of action for a car. Right, so if you if

1415
01:06:55,840 --> 01:06:58,880
Speaker 5: you allow your fourteen year old, I give my keys

1416
01:06:59,000 --> 01:07:01,200
Speaker 5: or I make my keys access for my fourteen year old,

1417
01:07:01,440 --> 01:07:03,360
Speaker 5: and so you can use the truck if you need it.

1418
01:07:03,400 --> 01:07:06,120
Speaker 5: And he goes and drives. Now he's not a competent driver,

1419
01:07:06,360 --> 01:07:08,320
Speaker 5: he does not have a license for it. He goes

1420
01:07:08,320 --> 01:07:10,960
Speaker 5: out and causes an accident, I, as the parent, as

1421
01:07:11,000 --> 01:07:15,480
Speaker 5: the owner of that vehicle, I can be held negligent.

1422
01:07:16,120 --> 01:07:18,400
Speaker 5: Same thing for companies. They have an employee who they

1423
01:07:18,400 --> 01:07:20,400
Speaker 5: know who's caused tons of accidents, and they're going to

1424
01:07:20,440 --> 01:07:23,440
Speaker 5: let him drive, knowing that he's calls all kinds of problems.

1425
01:07:23,480 --> 01:07:25,960
Speaker 5: You can. It's just a theory of liability, that's all

1426
01:07:26,000 --> 01:07:29,240
Speaker 5: it is. But here I was making the legal comparison

1427
01:07:29,680 --> 01:07:33,360
Speaker 5: because I just found it so intriguing. Of with a firearm,

1428
01:07:33,360 --> 01:07:36,520
Speaker 5: you have a license, you need to show competency to

1429
01:07:36,600 --> 01:07:41,400
Speaker 5: use it. Relatively, what's the utility of a card to drive?

1430
01:07:41,480 --> 01:07:45,040
Speaker 5: Utility of a weapon is to shoot, so like it

1431
01:07:45,080 --> 01:07:48,120
Speaker 5: should should be a higher threshold. So anyway, that was

1432
01:07:48,360 --> 01:07:51,400
Speaker 5: that came to mind of like, what's the theory of

1433
01:07:52,040 --> 01:07:56,800
Speaker 5: liability there? Several states recognize negligent and trust of a firearm,

1434
01:07:56,840 --> 01:07:58,520
Speaker 5: but Texas does not.

1435
01:07:59,080 --> 01:08:01,720
Speaker 4: Can I ask one question on this line of thinking?

1436
01:08:01,760 --> 01:08:07,120
Speaker 4: So I was given a shotgun and the person who

1437
01:08:07,160 --> 01:08:10,880
Speaker 4: gave me the shotgun had the barrels checked to just

1438
01:08:10,920 --> 01:08:13,400
Speaker 4: make sure it was still a good shot, old, old,

1439
01:08:13,440 --> 01:08:18,320
Speaker 4: side by side, and the probably the second day that

1440
01:08:18,360 --> 01:08:21,320
Speaker 4: I used it, it was hunting with with a a

1441
01:08:21,320 --> 01:08:24,879
Speaker 4: friend of mine and we finally got into some birds.

1442
01:08:25,280 --> 01:08:31,320
Speaker 4: Shot the gun gun shot great, And I went to

1443
01:08:31,479 --> 01:08:35,320
Speaker 4: reload the shotgun I had. You know, you always maintained

1444
01:08:35,800 --> 01:08:40,920
Speaker 4: good control of your barrels. And I I'm looking at

1445
01:08:41,360 --> 01:08:43,639
Speaker 4: I mean, I just remember this so clearly because every

1446
01:08:43,640 --> 01:08:47,280
Speaker 4: time crazy stuff happens, it's scary, right. So I'm looking

1447
01:08:47,320 --> 01:08:51,120
Speaker 4: at him and I closed the gun and buy am.

1448
01:08:52,280 --> 01:08:56,600
Speaker 1: Right, And so I'm like, okay, I must have.

1449
01:08:56,960 --> 01:08:59,519
Speaker 4: Had my finger on the trigger. And my friend's like, Jesus,

1450
01:08:59,520 --> 01:09:00,639
Speaker 4: that was it? Stupid?

1451
01:09:00,640 --> 01:09:01,280
Speaker 1: What are you doing?

1452
01:09:01,800 --> 01:09:05,720
Speaker 4: I'm like, well, wait a minute, am I stupid? Right?

1453
01:09:05,960 --> 01:09:06,080
Speaker 1: Right?

1454
01:09:06,720 --> 01:09:10,320
Speaker 4: Well, I pulled the shells out, put new shells in.

1455
01:09:11,000 --> 01:09:13,440
Speaker 4: I'm my fingers clear, the trigger.

1456
01:09:14,240 --> 01:09:20,639
Speaker 1: Close, right, I guess they hurting your knuckles, shoulder.

1457
01:09:21,560 --> 01:09:25,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, so yeah, took took the gun into a gun

1458
01:09:25,080 --> 01:09:27,920
Speaker 4: smith and yeah, there you go inside the action. You know,

1459
01:09:27,960 --> 01:09:30,040
Speaker 4: it was just an old gun that had been sitting

1460
01:09:30,040 --> 01:09:32,519
Speaker 4: in a Massachusetts basement for a long time and then

1461
01:09:32,560 --> 01:09:33,360
Speaker 4: it did that.

1462
01:09:33,479 --> 01:09:36,000
Speaker 1: Dude have reason to believe.

1463
01:09:36,120 --> 01:09:38,800
Speaker 5: Right, No, No, that wouldn't have passed that.

1464
01:09:38,800 --> 01:09:41,439
Speaker 4: That's not negligent entrustment of a firearm.

1465
01:09:41,560 --> 01:09:43,680
Speaker 5: No, No, I mean that's not at all. Like I

1466
01:09:43,720 --> 01:09:47,280
Speaker 5: am very much a proponent of just because you hand

1467
01:09:47,640 --> 01:09:51,320
Speaker 5: the child a BB gun, a pelagon, whatever it is,

1468
01:09:51,560 --> 01:09:53,040
Speaker 5: and all of a sudden you should be liable for

1469
01:09:53,080 --> 01:09:56,000
Speaker 5: everything they do with Absolutely not. I'm saying it's it's

1470
01:09:56,200 --> 01:09:58,280
Speaker 5: there's a level of knowledge. It's really just more for

1471
01:09:58,320 --> 01:10:02,240
Speaker 5: the legal like theory discus of it. How much sufficient

1472
01:10:02,280 --> 01:10:03,920
Speaker 5: knowledge do you have to have? So you see this

1473
01:10:04,040 --> 01:10:06,880
Speaker 5: come into play with of course, with mass shootings, there's

1474
01:10:06,920 --> 01:10:09,280
Speaker 5: a student who came to school with something and so

1475
01:10:09,400 --> 01:10:12,960
Speaker 5: the parents just had a AK forty seven of the

1476
01:10:13,320 --> 01:10:16,080
Speaker 5: you know, at the in the bedroom right there or

1477
01:10:16,120 --> 01:10:16,840
Speaker 5: whatever it is.

1478
01:10:17,080 --> 01:10:20,040
Speaker 1: And so that's the thing you're seeing lately, those prosecuting parents.

1479
01:10:20,120 --> 01:10:23,080
Speaker 5: Correct. Yeah, it's saying you should know better to properly

1480
01:10:23,120 --> 01:10:26,439
Speaker 5: store your gun or keep it away from people who

1481
01:10:26,439 --> 01:10:28,600
Speaker 5: cannot who should not be allowed to use it. And

1482
01:10:28,640 --> 01:10:31,080
Speaker 5: you see this a lot with the children that truly

1483
01:10:31,120 --> 01:10:34,960
Speaker 5: have have problems. But you know, in the case I

1484
01:10:35,000 --> 01:10:37,920
Speaker 5: was talking about, the guy who owned the gun was

1485
01:10:38,520 --> 01:10:42,639
Speaker 5: much more pushing it on to her than what evidence

1486
01:10:42,640 --> 01:10:46,360
Speaker 5: could come out for that appellate corps. But anyway, Yeah,

1487
01:10:46,400 --> 01:10:50,200
Speaker 5: I just find it so intriguing that if you knew

1488
01:10:50,520 --> 01:10:52,720
Speaker 5: giving a gun to somebody that they're likely to cause

1489
01:10:52,760 --> 01:10:55,439
Speaker 5: harmed a person, not just because they're they're new their

1490
01:10:55,520 --> 01:10:59,640
Speaker 5: kid like competency is just one element. It's also the knowledge.

1491
01:11:00,160 --> 01:11:02,920
Speaker 5: So the State of Texas in well the Pella Court said, no,

1492
01:11:03,439 --> 01:11:05,840
Speaker 5: you have to have knowledge that they will use the

1493
01:11:05,880 --> 01:11:07,800
Speaker 5: gun to harm somebody. So in the case of the

1494
01:11:07,840 --> 01:11:10,519
Speaker 5: husband and wife, then the husband should have had the

1495
01:11:10,560 --> 01:11:13,400
Speaker 5: knowledge that she would use the gun to kill her husband.

1496
01:11:14,000 --> 01:11:16,800
Speaker 5: And that was the that was the great area. But

1497
01:11:16,840 --> 01:11:18,400
Speaker 5: that just goes to she.

1498
01:11:18,360 --> 01:11:20,640
Speaker 1: Said, do you happen to have anything I can use

1499
01:11:20,680 --> 01:11:21,559
Speaker 1: to kill my husband?

1500
01:11:21,600 --> 01:11:22,000
Speaker 5: Exactly?

1501
01:11:22,040 --> 01:11:25,400
Speaker 1: He said, yeah, this pistol, right, trouble for that.

1502
01:11:25,520 --> 01:11:27,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, So then it just goes to a level of

1503
01:11:27,439 --> 01:11:30,080
Speaker 5: knowledge that Pello Court said, no, he didn't have sufficient knowledge.

1504
01:11:30,120 --> 01:11:33,760
Speaker 5: The fact showed he probably knew that. It's something I

1505
01:11:33,800 --> 01:11:35,479
Speaker 5: knew she didn't. I knew they had marital problems, but

1506
01:11:35,600 --> 01:11:37,160
Speaker 5: I didn't know she's going to actually kill the guy.

1507
01:11:37,280 --> 01:11:38,800
Speaker 5: That was kind of how that works. But that's what

1508
01:11:38,840 --> 01:11:41,559
Speaker 5: made when you're talking about the mushrooms of you know

1509
01:11:41,640 --> 01:11:44,920
Speaker 5: what if you give it to somebody else, does that

1510
01:11:45,640 --> 01:11:48,000
Speaker 5: create a chain of liability? And there's sometimes that. Yeah,

1511
01:11:48,040 --> 01:11:49,960
Speaker 5: when you entrust something, but that's what they call it,

1512
01:11:50,120 --> 01:11:54,200
Speaker 5: entrusting a chattel is the legal term for it, then

1513
01:11:54,280 --> 01:11:57,280
Speaker 5: you can you can in certain situations be liable for

1514
01:11:57,320 --> 01:11:58,000
Speaker 5: it pretty well.

1515
01:12:00,560 --> 01:12:03,000
Speaker 1: Specially put another one down that I want him to

1516
01:12:03,080 --> 01:12:10,599
Speaker 1: jump to, which is asking the permission permissions. Remember that as.

1517
01:12:12,080 --> 01:12:16,439
Speaker 7: Yeah, I have a question specifically about like preparing for

1518
01:12:16,479 --> 01:12:20,479
Speaker 7: a hard conversation. I ask a lot of folks for

1519
01:12:20,560 --> 01:12:21,280
Speaker 7: hunting permission.

1520
01:12:21,479 --> 01:12:21,800
Speaker 1: This year.

1521
01:12:21,800 --> 01:12:24,559
Speaker 7: I'm trying to hunt a new state, and so I

1522
01:12:24,560 --> 01:12:28,320
Speaker 7: identified six landowners, sixteen landowners I wanted to ask permission for,

1523
01:12:29,680 --> 01:12:32,800
Speaker 7: and I called sixteen of them a couple saturdays ago

1524
01:12:33,160 --> 01:12:36,599
Speaker 7: and asked for permission. The current way I treat that, uh,

1525
01:12:36,880 --> 01:12:38,639
Speaker 7: because I like sort of dread it. It's a hard

1526
01:12:38,680 --> 01:12:41,640
Speaker 7: conversation and I'm a stranger. I'm asking them for like

1527
01:12:41,680 --> 01:12:46,800
Speaker 7: one of the greatest favors they could possibly do for me. Yeah,

1528
01:12:46,960 --> 01:12:48,920
Speaker 7: that's how it goes. How how could.

1529
01:12:48,800 --> 01:12:50,240
Speaker 1: You send your kids up?

1530
01:12:50,400 --> 01:12:50,719
Speaker 4: Question?

1531
01:12:50,800 --> 01:12:50,880
Speaker 3: What?

1532
01:12:52,160 --> 01:12:55,519
Speaker 7: How can you best prepare for a conversation like that?

1533
01:12:55,560 --> 01:12:58,200
Speaker 7: Because the way I currently treat it is I sort

1534
01:12:58,200 --> 01:13:01,000
Speaker 7: of spring it on myself. I like prize myself almost.

1535
01:13:01,040 --> 01:13:04,040
Speaker 7: I'm like, I can't think about this too much, Like, Okay,

1536
01:13:04,080 --> 01:13:06,519
Speaker 7: I'm gonna do this. It's eleven a m. Saturday morning.

1537
01:13:06,720 --> 01:13:08,000
Speaker 7: This is just what I'm gonna do it now. And

1538
01:13:08,040 --> 01:13:10,400
Speaker 7: so I call all sixteen of these landowners hate it,

1539
01:13:10,439 --> 01:13:11,240
Speaker 7: and I rip off.

1540
01:13:11,080 --> 01:13:11,679
Speaker 5: The band aid.

1541
01:13:11,960 --> 01:13:14,160
Speaker 7: Usually I get like part way into it, it's not

1542
01:13:14,200 --> 01:13:17,720
Speaker 7: so bad then, and I'd like, one thing I've done

1543
01:13:17,760 --> 01:13:19,599
Speaker 7: is I tell myself the worst thing they can do

1544
01:13:19,680 --> 01:13:20,160
Speaker 7: is they say no.

1545
01:13:20,720 --> 01:13:21,000
Speaker 5: Sure.

1546
01:13:21,520 --> 01:13:23,959
Speaker 7: And then one time I went up to a rancher's

1547
01:13:24,080 --> 01:13:25,640
Speaker 7: door and I knocked on his door to ask for

1548
01:13:25,640 --> 01:13:28,120
Speaker 7: shed hunting permission. Is dog bit me and I had

1549
01:13:28,120 --> 01:13:29,920
Speaker 7: to go. It was way out of day on my

1550
01:13:30,040 --> 01:13:31,800
Speaker 7: rabies shot, So I did I go get it rid.

1551
01:13:31,920 --> 01:13:34,120
Speaker 7: So actually, the worst thing that could happen to me

1552
01:13:34,200 --> 01:13:35,040
Speaker 7: is I get bit by a.

1553
01:13:35,000 --> 01:13:37,120
Speaker 1: Dog, but you suit them and got the whole ranch.

1554
01:13:37,520 --> 01:13:38,360
Speaker 1: Yeah that's true.

1555
01:13:38,760 --> 01:13:43,360
Speaker 7: You're right, maybe, so talk about preparing for a hard

1556
01:13:43,400 --> 01:13:46,000
Speaker 7: conversation like asking for haunting permission.

1557
01:13:46,479 --> 01:13:50,880
Speaker 5: Yeah, So what I teach for the more difficult conversations

1558
01:13:51,040 --> 01:13:54,240
Speaker 5: is using what I call frame for them. And so

1559
01:13:54,439 --> 01:13:57,040
Speaker 5: there's a three parts to it. One is you tell

1560
01:13:57,080 --> 01:13:59,280
Speaker 5: someone what you want to talk about till you tell

1561
01:13:59,320 --> 01:14:02,360
Speaker 5: them how you want to walk away from in the conversation.

1562
01:14:02,439 --> 01:14:04,400
Speaker 5: And three, you get their buy in into that frame.

1563
01:14:04,640 --> 01:14:06,759
Speaker 5: I see this a lot in the business context, of course,

1564
01:14:06,800 --> 01:14:10,559
Speaker 5: where somebody needs to correct a decision. So let's put

1565
01:14:10,560 --> 01:14:14,800
Speaker 5: it in context of maybe y'all had a business meeting

1566
01:14:14,840 --> 01:14:19,000
Speaker 5: here and you need to correct something that somebody's done.

1567
01:14:20,280 --> 01:14:23,479
Speaker 5: So let's say you're gonna have a difficult conversation with Krin.

1568
01:14:24,720 --> 01:14:27,360
Speaker 5: It could be as simple as you know, hey, hey Krinn,

1569
01:14:27,600 --> 01:14:28,960
Speaker 5: I need to talk to you about some comments you

1570
01:14:29,000 --> 01:14:31,040
Speaker 5: made at last Thursday's meeting, and I want to walk

1571
01:14:31,040 --> 01:14:34,000
Speaker 5: away with it with the understanding that we can't talk

1572
01:14:34,000 --> 01:14:37,080
Speaker 5: about that again. Sound good? And then right there, you

1573
01:14:37,160 --> 01:14:39,320
Speaker 5: know exactly what we're talking about exactly what the walk

1574
01:14:39,320 --> 01:14:41,400
Speaker 5: away is, and then you're getting to their buy and

1575
01:14:41,439 --> 01:14:43,400
Speaker 5: now you don't have to worry about Hey, you remember

1576
01:14:43,439 --> 01:14:44,320
Speaker 5: that meeting that we had.

1577
01:14:44,479 --> 01:14:46,160
Speaker 1: You've had the whole conversation already.

1578
01:14:46,320 --> 01:14:49,680
Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly. So now there's not the anxiety because you're

1579
01:14:49,720 --> 01:14:51,760
Speaker 5: only thinking of what. When you're in those situations, you're

1580
01:14:51,760 --> 01:14:54,200
Speaker 5: only thinking about what you need to say. You need

1581
01:14:54,240 --> 01:14:56,400
Speaker 5: to be thinking what's going to help as you think

1582
01:14:56,520 --> 01:14:59,800
Speaker 5: of what they're going to be thinking about, because they're

1583
01:14:59,800 --> 01:15:01,320
Speaker 5: going to me think of what what do you what's

1584
01:15:01,320 --> 01:15:05,200
Speaker 5: going on here? Uh, there's new element. What's going on?

1585
01:15:05,360 --> 01:15:07,840
Speaker 5: Is it's there? The fight or flight's gonna kick in

1586
01:15:07,880 --> 01:15:09,639
Speaker 5: of you know, how should I handle this new threat?

1587
01:15:10,160 --> 01:15:11,920
Speaker 5: What do you want? Get to the point like that

1588
01:15:12,000 --> 01:15:12,479
Speaker 5: kind of stuff.

1589
01:15:12,520 --> 01:15:18,160
Speaker 1: Yeah. It's like when you're there at the door, Yeah beautiful, yeah, yeah,

1590
01:15:18,160 --> 01:15:22,120
Speaker 1: like you're so yeah yeah, yeah, there you go, and

1591
01:15:22,280 --> 01:15:22,960
Speaker 1: the guys like.

1592
01:15:24,080 --> 01:15:25,839
Speaker 8: Who are you?

1593
01:15:28,040 --> 01:15:28,200
Speaker 3: Yeah?

1594
01:15:28,280 --> 01:15:32,280
Speaker 5: Yeah exactly, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's the what's that oh

1595
01:15:32,360 --> 01:15:37,520
Speaker 5: brother way out though he's shooting the taxman the kids,

1596
01:15:37,960 --> 01:15:42,599
Speaker 5: he's like, good boy, yeah yeah yeah. So I love

1597
01:15:42,680 --> 01:15:45,040
Speaker 5: frames and they can be used also in the productive sense.

1598
01:15:45,200 --> 01:15:48,200
Speaker 5: So let's Let's say you need you want to talk

1599
01:15:48,240 --> 01:15:51,000
Speaker 5: to somebody for later today, and you might say, Hey,

1600
01:15:51,080 --> 01:15:53,400
Speaker 5: I need to talk to you about the budget for

1601
01:15:53,680 --> 01:15:55,800
Speaker 5: tomorrow's meeting. I'm gonna walk away with us being on

1602
01:15:55,840 --> 01:15:59,320
Speaker 5: the same page that work, and then right there you

1603
01:15:59,479 --> 01:16:01,960
Speaker 5: just like you know, instead of like, hey, you got

1604
01:16:01,960 --> 01:16:04,840
Speaker 5: five minutes, and then you're gonna lead. And then what

1605
01:16:04,920 --> 01:16:07,920
Speaker 5: typically happens is you go, hey, so I'm thinking, and

1606
01:16:08,000 --> 01:16:09,280
Speaker 5: you can tell me if I'm wrong about this, but

1607
01:16:09,600 --> 01:16:12,360
Speaker 5: and then you just start kind of wandering and then

1608
01:16:12,720 --> 01:16:15,080
Speaker 5: and then the other person is going, where is this going?

1609
01:16:15,120 --> 01:16:18,240
Speaker 5: What's the point? And then we have the problem. You

1610
01:16:18,280 --> 01:16:20,519
Speaker 5: see this a lot in relationships. You have the tendency

1611
01:16:20,560 --> 01:16:21,920
Speaker 5: to want to cut in, Oh you want me to

1612
01:16:21,920 --> 01:16:23,800
Speaker 5: do this like no, no, no, no, wait wait wait no,

1613
01:16:23,840 --> 01:16:25,880
Speaker 5: that's not it I need because they don't know how

1614
01:16:25,880 --> 01:16:28,360
Speaker 5: to land the plane, so they just kind of talk

1615
01:16:28,439 --> 01:16:31,760
Speaker 5: and circles. So you can put this in the context

1616
01:16:31,920 --> 01:16:36,200
Speaker 5: of needing permission. So if it's hey, I like to

1617
01:16:36,240 --> 01:16:38,160
Speaker 5: talk to you about your ranch and I want to

1618
01:16:38,160 --> 01:16:42,040
Speaker 5: walk away with getting your permission on being able to

1619
01:16:42,560 --> 01:16:45,680
Speaker 5: hunt here, is that all right? Like just having that conversation,

1620
01:16:46,560 --> 01:16:48,400
Speaker 5: putting it in a one two three framework. Now you're

1621
01:16:48,400 --> 01:16:50,360
Speaker 5: gonna have to tailor it for whatever is most comfortable

1622
01:16:50,360 --> 01:16:53,240
Speaker 5: for you. But it's a great way of letting them

1623
01:16:53,240 --> 01:16:56,599
Speaker 5: know out at the outset of what's the ask, because

1624
01:16:57,120 --> 01:16:59,799
Speaker 5: I find that a lot of your your property owners,

1625
01:16:59,800 --> 01:17:02,080
Speaker 5: really anybody, they just want to say get to the point.

1626
01:17:02,240 --> 01:17:04,760
Speaker 5: They want as little time as possible with you, and

1627
01:17:04,800 --> 01:17:07,680
Speaker 5: so you have a very small window to like just

1628
01:17:07,720 --> 01:17:12,240
Speaker 5: say I like to talk with you about X, and

1629
01:17:12,360 --> 01:17:16,479
Speaker 5: I would want like I can say maybe, and I

1630
01:17:16,520 --> 01:17:18,240
Speaker 5: want to walk away with a feeling or I want

1631
01:17:18,280 --> 01:17:20,320
Speaker 5: to that's more of the business sense for you, I

1632
01:17:20,320 --> 01:17:23,040
Speaker 5: want to walk away. Ideally, I want to talk with you,

1633
01:17:23,120 --> 01:17:25,479
Speaker 5: to walk away with this permission of doing X, Y

1634
01:17:25,520 --> 01:17:27,960
Speaker 5: and Z, Like I'm telling you right now, the goal

1635
01:17:28,000 --> 01:17:30,360
Speaker 5: for the conversation, what's the finish line for that conversation,

1636
01:17:30,400 --> 01:17:32,680
Speaker 5: Because a lot of people will they start talking and

1637
01:17:32,720 --> 01:17:35,000
Speaker 5: they just they don't know where they want to land.

1638
01:17:35,080 --> 01:17:36,519
Speaker 5: So saying that upfront might help.

1639
01:17:36,760 --> 01:17:39,360
Speaker 7: Yeah, a few more notes on that. I find that

1640
01:17:40,160 --> 01:17:42,880
Speaker 7: occasionally I've gotten permission because that person was just in

1641
01:17:42,920 --> 01:17:45,400
Speaker 7: a really good mood whenever I happen to talk to them,

1642
01:17:45,720 --> 01:17:48,400
Speaker 7: or on the contrary, like they just got done yelling

1643
01:17:48,400 --> 01:17:50,320
Speaker 7: at their naughty fourteen year old and they're in a

1644
01:17:50,360 --> 01:17:50,880
Speaker 7: bad mood.

1645
01:17:51,000 --> 01:17:52,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, when I come ask them for this giant.

1646
01:17:52,640 --> 01:17:55,840
Speaker 7: Favor, how can I like butter them up or get

1647
01:17:55,840 --> 01:17:58,160
Speaker 7: them in a good mood at the offset. So it's,

1648
01:17:58,200 --> 01:18:00,400
Speaker 7: you know, increases my chances by percent?

1649
01:18:02,240 --> 01:18:06,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, assuming too much. Yeah, yeah, I'm in a

1650
01:18:06,040 --> 01:18:06,519
Speaker 4: bad mood.

1651
01:18:06,760 --> 01:18:10,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's tried, you know, being like you know, three

1652
01:18:10,880 --> 01:18:15,320
Speaker 1: lawyers walk into a bar, just start out talking.

1653
01:18:15,120 --> 01:18:17,360
Speaker 4: About your warranty, your extended warranty.

1654
01:18:17,520 --> 01:18:21,479
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Let me tell you. So I was

1655
01:18:22,120 --> 01:18:26,080
Speaker 5: this is probably about seven months ago or so, and uh,

1656
01:18:26,560 --> 01:18:29,400
Speaker 5: my wife and I were at Target. Really, she was

1657
01:18:29,400 --> 01:18:31,280
Speaker 5: a Target. I was just there and.

1658
01:18:31,240 --> 01:18:34,280
Speaker 1: Uh watching her.

1659
01:18:35,120 --> 01:18:38,280
Speaker 5: Yeah, I was watching her at Target, and uh, we're

1660
01:18:38,520 --> 01:18:42,920
Speaker 5: how I while she's a checkout, I really wanted I

1661
01:18:43,280 --> 01:18:44,920
Speaker 5: wanted some ice cream. I was at Targets, like, look,

1662
01:18:44,960 --> 01:18:46,760
Speaker 5: if I'm gonna be here, I'm gonna get myself some

1663
01:18:46,840 --> 01:18:48,559
Speaker 5: ice cream. So I went down and got like one

1664
01:18:48,600 --> 01:18:50,840
Speaker 5: of those little bitty small ice creams. They don't have

1665
01:18:50,880 --> 01:18:53,360
Speaker 5: any spoons. I don't know what to do about it.

1666
01:18:53,400 --> 01:18:57,760
Speaker 5: So I'm thinking, and uh, there's a Starbucks inside this

1667
01:18:58,000 --> 01:19:00,840
Speaker 5: Target and so I go up, I don't want anything

1668
01:19:00,840 --> 01:19:04,280
Speaker 5: at Starbucks and they don't have just spoons available, and

1669
01:19:04,320 --> 01:19:07,599
Speaker 5: so I I. The lady did not look like she

1670
01:19:07,640 --> 01:19:10,719
Speaker 5: was in a good mood, and so I my car.

1671
01:19:10,800 --> 01:19:12,880
Speaker 5: Here we go. Let's see what we can do. I'll

1672
01:19:12,920 --> 01:19:16,479
Speaker 5: walk in. I say I need a miracle. You think

1673
01:19:16,520 --> 01:19:16,840
Speaker 5: you can.

1674
01:19:16,760 --> 01:19:17,599
Speaker 4: Perform a miracle?

1675
01:19:18,520 --> 01:19:21,400
Speaker 5: And she goes, she immediately bright and she goes, I

1676
01:19:21,520 --> 01:19:26,040
Speaker 5: just might I said, I said, I got this ice cream,

1677
01:19:26,760 --> 01:19:29,280
Speaker 5: I don't got a spoon, And without me even asking,

1678
01:19:29,360 --> 01:19:30,920
Speaker 5: she goes, well, I got a spoon you can have

1679
01:19:31,280 --> 01:19:34,479
Speaker 5: and went got it and brought it out right there.

1680
01:19:34,960 --> 01:19:36,799
Speaker 5: And I said, well, you just you can tell everybody

1681
01:19:36,840 --> 01:19:39,280
Speaker 5: he performed a miracle today. And she, I mean she

1682
01:19:39,320 --> 01:19:41,320
Speaker 5: we just got to have that. So it's that element

1683
01:19:41,360 --> 01:19:44,760
Speaker 5: of humor, that that levity in it that even if

1684
01:19:44,760 --> 01:19:46,519
Speaker 5: you were to say knock on the door and say

1685
01:19:47,640 --> 01:19:50,200
Speaker 5: I need a miracle from you, or I mean, even

1686
01:19:50,240 --> 01:19:54,680
Speaker 5: if it's something that's very lighthearted, they people tend to

1687
01:19:54,760 --> 01:19:57,839
Speaker 5: open up just to have a little bit of fun

1688
01:19:57,640 --> 01:20:02,479
Speaker 5: and humor as long as the compliments you one, because

1689
01:20:02,520 --> 01:20:05,599
Speaker 5: a lot of the times compliments from your someone you're

1690
01:20:05,640 --> 01:20:07,680
Speaker 5: asking something for They're like, what do you need? What

1691
01:20:07,720 --> 01:20:08,240
Speaker 5: do you want? Oh?

1692
01:20:08,320 --> 01:20:11,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was joking about the beautiful that's exact jokes,

1693
01:20:11,320 --> 01:20:13,280
Speaker 1: like a beautiful ranch you got here right right? Yeah?

1694
01:20:13,320 --> 01:20:14,360
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, exactly.

1695
01:20:14,479 --> 01:20:15,360
Speaker 1: The hell is this guy?

1696
01:20:15,360 --> 01:20:17,679
Speaker 6: There's gonna be a door, there's gonna be some rancher

1697
01:20:17,800 --> 01:20:21,479
Speaker 6: somewhere in eastern Montana. It's like, where'd you get that miracle?

1698
01:20:21,520 --> 01:20:22,519
Speaker 1: I need a miracle? Wne.

1699
01:20:22,560 --> 01:20:25,880
Speaker 4: I've heard that twenty times this season exactly. Oh yeah,

1700
01:20:25,920 --> 01:20:26,599
Speaker 4: that's exactly.

1701
01:20:26,720 --> 01:20:26,920
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1702
01:20:27,000 --> 01:20:27,240
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1703
01:20:27,760 --> 01:20:30,880
Speaker 8: With uh with Spencer scenario, when would be the time

1704
01:20:31,320 --> 01:20:35,920
Speaker 8: to bring up like offering to do work in exchange, Like,

1705
01:20:36,600 --> 01:20:38,439
Speaker 8: because if you're gonna throw it right out there that

1706
01:20:38,479 --> 01:20:41,960
Speaker 8: you're looking for permission, when would you say I'd be willing.

1707
01:20:41,760 --> 01:20:44,240
Speaker 5: To Oh so I would put that right in the frame. Yeah,

1708
01:20:44,280 --> 01:20:47,320
Speaker 5: so I would say something along the lines of, once

1709
01:20:47,360 --> 01:20:51,120
Speaker 5: you say hello, whatever, I like to talk with you

1710
01:20:51,200 --> 01:20:54,719
Speaker 5: about your your your beautiful ranch here, and I ideally

1711
01:20:54,800 --> 01:20:58,519
Speaker 5: I love to walk away with a relationship where I

1712
01:20:58,680 --> 01:21:00,959
Speaker 5: work on this property for you and exchange for permission

1713
01:21:00,960 --> 01:21:02,559
Speaker 5: for me to be able to do some hunting.

1714
01:21:02,880 --> 01:21:03,200
Speaker 1: Mmmm.

1715
01:21:03,360 --> 01:21:05,960
Speaker 5: That worke And I mean like that is out of

1716
01:21:06,000 --> 01:21:08,559
Speaker 5: the gate, right out of the gate rather than and

1717
01:21:08,600 --> 01:21:10,720
Speaker 5: it's not wasting their time. They're not going to get

1718
01:21:10,760 --> 01:21:14,240
Speaker 5: anxious over like, who's this stranger at my door? And

1719
01:21:14,320 --> 01:21:16,920
Speaker 5: you're saying it right up front, rather than them going,

1720
01:21:17,760 --> 01:21:19,360
Speaker 5: you know, what do you need and you're going, I mean,

1721
01:21:19,520 --> 01:21:22,360
Speaker 5: i'll work. I mean in exchange, I'll do.

1722
01:21:23,000 --> 01:21:26,519
Speaker 8: They might have said no, but i'll And the thing.

1723
01:21:26,439 --> 01:21:28,599
Speaker 5: Is they're already thinking no, I mean right out the gate.

1724
01:21:28,680 --> 01:21:31,559
Speaker 5: Before you they even answer open the door, they're thinking no.

1725
01:21:32,000 --> 01:21:34,519
Speaker 5: I mean, that's just they're probably not even gonna want

1726
01:21:34,520 --> 01:21:36,679
Speaker 5: to come to the door. I mean, how many people

1727
01:21:36,720 --> 01:21:39,599
Speaker 5: even when somebody knocks on somebody's door, now, it's like,

1728
01:21:39,880 --> 01:21:43,000
Speaker 5: what is this maniac doing here? Like nobody wants to

1729
01:21:43,000 --> 01:21:44,280
Speaker 5: be at somebody's house anymore.

1730
01:21:44,560 --> 01:21:46,400
Speaker 1: Someone knocked on our door last night. I said to

1731
01:21:46,439 --> 01:21:48,639
Speaker 1: my kid, I said, who in the world, I said,

1732
01:21:48,800 --> 01:21:50,840
Speaker 1: peek around the corner. Is it a man or a woman?

1733
01:21:50,960 --> 01:21:56,040
Speaker 5: Yeah? Exactly exactly. People will just say, so.

1734
01:21:56,040 --> 01:22:01,680
Speaker 1: My wife gets up, Yeah, that's awesome. One of those

1735
01:22:01,760 --> 01:22:05,120
Speaker 1: dudes tried to do solar. Oh yeah, we got that.

1736
01:22:05,160 --> 01:22:05,760
Speaker 4: The other night.

1737
01:22:06,120 --> 01:22:09,000
Speaker 3: All of our dogs started barking. We're like, we're gonna

1738
01:22:09,000 --> 01:22:10,120
Speaker 3: look at the video cameras.

1739
01:22:10,720 --> 01:22:11,920
Speaker 1: I don't like to send them off.

1740
01:22:13,720 --> 01:22:15,160
Speaker 4: The door open. I'm like, come on him.

1741
01:22:16,720 --> 01:22:17,320
Speaker 1: I do love it.

1742
01:22:17,320 --> 01:22:19,360
Speaker 6: When when all the dogs start barking, because then they

1743
01:22:19,360 --> 01:22:21,519
Speaker 6: feel like they have to apologize right out of the gate.

1744
01:22:21,680 --> 01:22:23,040
Speaker 4: Sure, and you have that for hands.

1745
01:22:24,960 --> 01:22:26,720
Speaker 1: I want to hit you with one. I know you're

1746
01:22:26,760 --> 01:22:27,880
Speaker 1: like the expert, but I want to hit and w

1747
01:22:28,000 --> 01:22:33,920
Speaker 1: I just stumbled into contractors. Yeah, you got something's wrong

1748
01:22:33,960 --> 01:22:37,080
Speaker 1: with your You gotta call plumber, right. You know what

1749
01:22:37,120 --> 01:22:40,960
Speaker 1: I started doing this is just extremely effective. A guy

1750
01:22:41,840 --> 01:22:43,840
Speaker 1: he calls the plumber. A lot of guys are gonna

1751
01:22:43,840 --> 01:22:45,479
Speaker 1: want to like puff up a little bit.

1752
01:22:45,680 --> 01:22:46,120
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1753
01:22:46,520 --> 01:22:49,960
Speaker 1: What I've started doing and it works so good, is

1754
01:22:50,000 --> 01:22:53,120
Speaker 1: to be like, man, when it comes to electrical I'm

1755
01:22:53,120 --> 01:22:57,519
Speaker 1: a moron. Yeah. Yeah, Like I look in that mechanical room, dude,

1756
01:22:57,560 --> 01:23:01,360
Speaker 1: all I see is like wires and pipes. Right. They're like, oh,

1757
01:23:01,400 --> 01:23:02,280
Speaker 1: it's getting aarticular.

1758
01:23:02,360 --> 01:23:03,479
Speaker 5: You know, it's image.

1759
01:23:03,520 --> 01:23:05,080
Speaker 1: A lot of guys like, well, you know, I try

1760
01:23:05,120 --> 01:23:08,479
Speaker 1: to x y and you know, you know I could

1761
01:23:08,520 --> 01:23:11,960
Speaker 1: probably figure it out, right, you know, I'm a little busy. Yeah,

1762
01:23:12,040 --> 01:23:14,280
Speaker 1: I'm like, man, I look onto that thing, dude, I

1763
01:23:14,320 --> 01:23:15,400
Speaker 1: have no idea what I'm looking.

1764
01:23:15,240 --> 01:23:19,600
Speaker 5: At Yeah, that's incredibly effective because it works. Let me

1765
01:23:19,600 --> 01:23:21,879
Speaker 5: tell you the reason why. It's because if you instantly

1766
01:23:21,920 --> 01:23:24,439
Speaker 5: become the student and they become the teacher, and people

1767
01:23:24,479 --> 01:23:26,959
Speaker 5: love to teach, people love to share their knowledge.

1768
01:23:27,920 --> 01:23:31,479
Speaker 1: I'm also not lying, yeah, well you have in floor heating.

1769
01:23:31,560 --> 01:23:33,840
Speaker 1: When I look at my mechanic, yeah, I don't know

1770
01:23:33,880 --> 01:23:34,320
Speaker 1: what I'm doing.

1771
01:23:34,400 --> 01:23:35,200
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1772
01:23:35,040 --> 01:23:35,160
Speaker 3: Uh.

1773
01:23:35,320 --> 01:23:38,559
Speaker 5: Nate Bargatsi, who I'm a huge fan of, has this

1774
01:23:38,680 --> 01:23:41,920
Speaker 5: bit about when people is like his wife is the

1775
01:23:41,960 --> 01:23:44,400
Speaker 5: one who knows all the man knowledge. Let's put like

1776
01:23:44,479 --> 01:23:47,599
Speaker 5: he knows knows everything. And so she called somebody to

1777
01:23:47,640 --> 01:23:49,599
Speaker 5: fix a water heater and he opens up and he's

1778
01:23:49,640 --> 01:23:51,560
Speaker 5: like ha, and the guy's like, I'm here here to

1779
01:23:51,600 --> 01:23:54,360
Speaker 5: do your water heater. And he's like, yeah, they're in there,

1780
01:23:54,479 --> 01:23:56,759
Speaker 5: you know, somewhere, Like he has no idea where it is.

1781
01:23:56,840 --> 01:23:58,040
Speaker 1: So he's always like.

1782
01:23:58,439 --> 01:24:00,800
Speaker 5: I know nothing about it. And so he's always like, oh, yeah,

1783
01:24:00,840 --> 01:24:03,720
Speaker 5: that's I agree. That's probably that we probably do need

1784
01:24:03,760 --> 01:24:05,880
Speaker 5: a new one. Just replace the whole thing, you know,

1785
01:24:06,120 --> 01:24:09,320
Speaker 5: like you have something to sell, Like it's it's fantastic.

1786
01:24:09,360 --> 01:24:13,240
Speaker 5: But yeah, that's an excellent strategy because there's no there's

1787
01:24:13,240 --> 01:24:16,160
Speaker 5: no battle of the ego, because we have such a

1788
01:24:16,200 --> 01:24:19,120
Speaker 5: feeling of to have any kind of credibility, I have

1789
01:24:19,160 --> 01:24:21,559
Speaker 5: to feel like, you know, I did this and I

1790
01:24:21,560 --> 01:24:23,040
Speaker 5: tried that, and I did this and I tried that.

1791
01:24:23,080 --> 01:24:24,600
Speaker 1: Because dudes feel emasculated.

1792
01:24:24,640 --> 01:24:28,080
Speaker 5: Absolutely, but I just emasculate myself and that's genius. It's

1793
01:24:28,160 --> 01:24:32,120
Speaker 5: genius to be able to to do the And I

1794
01:24:32,160 --> 01:24:35,479
Speaker 5: mean the thing is I think wives pick up on

1795
01:24:35,520 --> 01:24:38,360
Speaker 5: this of like it takes a really smart guy to

1796
01:24:38,400 --> 01:24:41,000
Speaker 5: be that dumb kind of thing where it's like, no,

1797
01:24:41,080 --> 01:24:42,519
Speaker 5: you're just trying to get out of it. Yeah, Like

1798
01:24:42,560 --> 01:24:44,240
Speaker 5: I don't know how to fold these clothes. Yeah you do,

1799
01:24:44,479 --> 01:24:47,320
Speaker 5: like you just not kind of I'm not very good

1800
01:24:47,320 --> 01:24:49,439
Speaker 5: at loading the disc rusher. Yeah you are. It's cool.

1801
01:24:49,520 --> 01:24:54,480
Speaker 7: My wife is described it as weaponized and competence. Yeah,

1802
01:24:54,520 --> 01:24:55,760
Speaker 7: but she's learned about it, so.

1803
01:24:55,880 --> 01:24:59,240
Speaker 5: I love that. Yeah, yeah, absolutely well. And I want

1804
01:24:59,280 --> 01:25:02,160
Speaker 5: to also pick up on something too, of the how

1805
01:25:02,200 --> 01:25:04,200
Speaker 5: do you kind of break the mold with somebody when

1806
01:25:04,200 --> 01:25:06,479
Speaker 5: you're first trying to ask something from them, or really

1807
01:25:06,560 --> 01:25:11,559
Speaker 5: anytime and this could be yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, is

1808
01:25:12,360 --> 01:25:16,639
Speaker 5: you you say exactly what they're thinking in the reverse way.

1809
01:25:16,640 --> 01:25:20,960
Speaker 5: I want to explain it. So let's say if if

1810
01:25:21,000 --> 01:25:22,680
Speaker 5: I was going to tell you something and I and

1811
01:25:22,720 --> 01:25:26,599
Speaker 5: I said, I don't mean this disuspectfully, and I say something,

1812
01:25:26,880 --> 01:25:27,840
Speaker 5: how are you going to take it?

1813
01:25:28,200 --> 01:25:29,960
Speaker 1: You're probably the same way when someone says I don't

1814
01:25:30,000 --> 01:25:32,479
Speaker 1: want to get political exactly, and I'm like, please don't,

1815
01:25:32,600 --> 01:25:33,680
Speaker 1: yeah exactly.

1816
01:25:35,000 --> 01:25:38,800
Speaker 5: Exactly, Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And so it's that it's any

1817
01:25:38,840 --> 01:25:39,759
Speaker 5: time you say look.

1818
01:25:39,680 --> 01:25:43,160
Speaker 1: It's like okay, yeah, then stop talking because you're good.

1819
01:25:43,200 --> 01:25:44,479
Speaker 1: Then don't then don't.

1820
01:25:44,560 --> 01:25:46,559
Speaker 5: Yeah, one say when somebody says I don't mean to

1821
01:25:46,560 --> 01:25:48,599
Speaker 5: be rude, and then they say the rudest thing you've

1822
01:25:48,600 --> 01:25:51,439
Speaker 5: ever heard, or whatever it is, you know, I don't,

1823
01:25:51,439 --> 01:25:54,639
Speaker 5: I don't mean this to best.

1824
01:25:53,560 --> 01:25:55,200
Speaker 1: Exactly exactly.

1825
01:25:56,680 --> 01:26:03,000
Speaker 5: The most Yeah, yeah exactly. So instead what you do

1826
01:26:03,080 --> 01:26:06,800
Speaker 5: is you flip it. So, in other words, when you're

1827
01:26:06,800 --> 01:26:09,400
Speaker 5: coming up to that person, maybe instead of going like,

1828
01:26:09,479 --> 01:26:12,160
Speaker 5: I don't want to waste your time, what are they

1829
01:26:12,200 --> 01:26:17,320
Speaker 5: thinking you're wasting my time? Instead of exactly now, instead

1830
01:26:17,560 --> 01:26:20,559
Speaker 5: you say it for them, instead of instead of saying

1831
01:26:20,680 --> 01:26:22,559
Speaker 5: it's not that case when they both know it is,

1832
01:26:22,600 --> 01:26:25,280
Speaker 5: because they they're gonna people naturally want to say the

1833
01:26:25,320 --> 01:26:29,160
Speaker 5: reverse of what you're thinking. So instead say you're probably

1834
01:26:29,280 --> 01:26:32,519
Speaker 5: you probably think I'm wasting your time, and then say it.

1835
01:26:32,479 --> 01:26:33,320
Speaker 1: Oh I don't like this.

1836
01:26:33,520 --> 01:26:37,760
Speaker 5: Yeah, well that's not and I am, well I am

1837
01:26:37,760 --> 01:26:41,000
Speaker 5: wasting Well you could say that of Let's say if you.

1838
01:26:41,080 --> 01:26:45,120
Speaker 8: Said forgiving me some of your time, or you.

1839
01:26:45,840 --> 01:26:48,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't, because then you're just telling you're confirming.

1840
01:26:48,920 --> 01:26:50,680
Speaker 5: I would either you say you probably think I'm here

1841
01:26:50,680 --> 01:26:53,519
Speaker 5: to bother you, okay, and then then they'll actually listen,

1842
01:26:54,280 --> 01:26:57,200
Speaker 5: because if you say I'm sorry to bother you, it's

1843
01:26:57,280 --> 01:26:59,400
Speaker 5: just the opposite. Or if it's let's say you and

1844
01:26:59,400 --> 01:27:01,320
Speaker 5: I are in a converse and you don't really trust me,

1845
01:27:01,760 --> 01:27:03,680
Speaker 5: are you You're already I can just tell what I'm

1846
01:27:03,680 --> 01:27:06,519
Speaker 5: doing as I'm labeling what you're not gonna like about me.

1847
01:27:06,560 --> 01:27:08,519
Speaker 5: So it may not be leading with that, but it

1848
01:27:08,560 --> 01:27:11,080
Speaker 5: could be something like, look, I know you probably don't

1849
01:27:11,080 --> 01:27:15,000
Speaker 5: trust me, and then you're gonna think the opposite rather

1850
01:27:15,040 --> 01:27:17,360
Speaker 5: than me saying and now I need you to trust me.

1851
01:27:17,400 --> 01:27:19,719
Speaker 5: Here you're automatically going to go no, I don't trust

1852
01:27:19,760 --> 01:27:23,679
Speaker 5: anything that you say. So when you have the people

1853
01:27:23,760 --> 01:27:25,960
Speaker 5: love to think the opposite. So if I say you

1854
01:27:26,000 --> 01:27:28,240
Speaker 5: can't do that, what's the first thing you think of yeah,

1855
01:27:28,280 --> 01:27:32,840
Speaker 5: I can. So we have this really quick switch of

1856
01:27:32,960 --> 01:27:34,960
Speaker 5: thinking the opposite of whatever you say. So if you

1857
01:27:35,000 --> 01:27:38,599
Speaker 5: say it as if on their behalf, now you probably

1858
01:27:38,600 --> 01:27:41,519
Speaker 5: think I'm you most likely think X, Y and Z.

1859
01:27:42,240 --> 01:27:44,880
Speaker 5: Their head goes, no, I don't you think the opposite

1860
01:27:45,200 --> 01:27:47,799
Speaker 5: of It's a It's a really great technique that I

1861
01:27:47,960 --> 01:27:49,240
Speaker 5: that I like, what's.

1862
01:27:49,000 --> 01:27:52,639
Speaker 1: The movie where it is a is it Mandalorian or something.

1863
01:27:52,640 --> 01:27:55,960
Speaker 1: There's like a dangerous seeming person and there's like a

1864
01:27:55,960 --> 01:27:57,639
Speaker 1: point in the movie where they say to a person,

1865
01:27:57,800 --> 01:27:59,800
Speaker 1: you can stay here and die or come with me

1866
01:27:59,840 --> 01:28:00,280
Speaker 1: and live.

1867
01:28:00,840 --> 01:28:02,439
Speaker 5: All right, I hope it's some into Lauri and I

1868
01:28:02,520 --> 01:28:05,280
Speaker 5: love that show, and it's like, uh, you know, and

1869
01:28:05,320 --> 01:28:07,480
Speaker 5: it's sort of presenting a way where the person's.

1870
01:28:07,120 --> 01:28:12,280
Speaker 1: Like I'll go with you, yeah, yeahs against all like

1871
01:28:12,320 --> 01:28:14,920
Speaker 1: against all visual Yeah, you know what I mean. There's

1872
01:28:14,960 --> 01:28:18,320
Speaker 1: like a like a surprising way of yeah. I don't

1873
01:28:18,320 --> 01:28:20,720
Speaker 1: even know what that is. As a rhetorical strategy.

1874
01:28:20,600 --> 01:28:24,439
Speaker 5: You're just you're narrowing the choices. So whenever you can

1875
01:28:24,520 --> 01:28:26,720
Speaker 5: like give them a set of chic you're just.

1876
01:28:26,720 --> 01:28:28,600
Speaker 4: You're I mean, I think the actual line is I

1877
01:28:28,640 --> 01:28:30,200
Speaker 4: can take you in warm, or I can take you

1878
01:28:30,240 --> 01:28:30,679
Speaker 4: in cold.

1879
01:28:33,560 --> 01:28:35,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know you're right. That's what it is. A

1880
01:28:36,120 --> 01:28:36,559
Speaker 1: good war.

1881
01:28:37,640 --> 01:28:39,599
Speaker 5: That's so good, What a great line.

1882
01:28:39,640 --> 01:28:41,760
Speaker 1: They're like, yeah, I gotta go warm. Yeah, I'll go warm.

1883
01:28:42,200 --> 01:28:47,120
Speaker 5: So anytime you you you can give people choices in conversation,

1884
01:28:47,320 --> 01:28:50,160
Speaker 5: they they love it. Rather, it's like I say this

1885
01:28:50,240 --> 01:28:52,160
Speaker 5: in the book. When you talk about everything, you talk

1886
01:28:52,200 --> 01:28:54,880
Speaker 5: about nothing. So when you put a frame around the conversation,

1887
01:28:54,960 --> 01:28:57,639
Speaker 5: you actually get very detailed instead of coming in to saying,

1888
01:28:57,640 --> 01:28:59,080
Speaker 5: all right, we've got a lot to talk about today.

1889
01:28:59,680 --> 01:29:02,559
Speaker 5: Nobody ever feels like you leave the conversation productive. But

1890
01:29:02,600 --> 01:29:05,000
Speaker 5: if you can eliminate the just one thing, you're gonna

1891
01:29:05,040 --> 01:29:08,599
Speaker 5: be a whole lot better. But yeah, that's what that's

1892
01:29:08,600 --> 01:29:09,479
Speaker 5: what comes to mind for me.

1893
01:29:09,600 --> 01:29:12,000
Speaker 7: Can can you talk about having a hard conversation in

1894
01:29:12,040 --> 01:29:14,800
Speaker 7: person versus over the phone. I find that if I'm

1895
01:29:14,840 --> 01:29:21,799
Speaker 7: looking for permissions, it takes more, uh like more courage

1896
01:29:21,800 --> 01:29:24,000
Speaker 7: for me to go up to somebody's front door and

1897
01:29:24,080 --> 01:29:26,599
Speaker 7: talk to them then call them over the phone, But

1898
01:29:26,920 --> 01:29:29,320
Speaker 7: the outcome is usually better in person. It's it's harder

1899
01:29:29,360 --> 01:29:31,479
Speaker 7: for them to tell me no when I'm standing in.

1900
01:29:31,520 --> 01:29:34,280
Speaker 1: Front of them with the little child. Yeah, I have

1901
01:29:34,320 --> 01:29:37,680
Speaker 1: one of those, Yeah, one of anytime, I got one

1902
01:29:37,680 --> 01:29:41,200
Speaker 1: on crutches. Right now, you bring that kid?

1903
01:29:46,400 --> 01:29:48,840
Speaker 5: Do you have a wheelchair for him to exactly?

1904
01:29:48,920 --> 01:29:49,960
Speaker 1: I don't wative.

1905
01:29:51,280 --> 01:29:52,920
Speaker 7: Can you talk about thinking.

1906
01:29:52,640 --> 01:30:01,799
Speaker 6: That I'm manipulating you with this small child.

1907
01:29:58,800 --> 01:29:59,960
Speaker 4: And he's dying to talk?

1908
01:30:00,400 --> 01:30:02,040
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1909
01:30:02,160 --> 01:30:05,559
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, the uh Well, going to them always in person,

1910
01:30:05,560 --> 01:30:09,880
Speaker 5: it's always much better. There's that element of people have

1911
01:30:09,920 --> 01:30:12,240
Speaker 5: a harder time saying no when you're in person than

1912
01:30:12,240 --> 01:30:14,200
Speaker 5: over the phone because you're talking to them, same reason

1913
01:30:14,200 --> 01:30:16,680
Speaker 5: why people and YouTube comments will say anything, but they

1914
01:30:16,840 --> 01:30:18,519
Speaker 5: never say in front of you. Yeah, it's a whole

1915
01:30:18,560 --> 01:30:20,600
Speaker 5: I mean, it's just a whole different level of credibility

1916
01:30:20,640 --> 01:30:24,679
Speaker 5: and humanity to it. And whenever they can see how

1917
01:30:24,680 --> 01:30:27,200
Speaker 5: you look right and you can go, Okay, this person's

1918
01:30:27,200 --> 01:30:30,200
Speaker 5: a genuine person, or this person doesn't look trustworthy. Maybe

1919
01:30:30,200 --> 01:30:32,120
Speaker 5: it's just how you're dressed. Maybe it's how you're carrying yourself,

1920
01:30:32,120 --> 01:30:33,880
Speaker 5: maybe it's how you're smiling, maybe it's I mean, they

1921
01:30:33,920 --> 01:30:36,280
Speaker 5: just go, I just I don't know something about you.

1922
01:30:36,320 --> 01:30:39,479
Speaker 5: I just like And so that element always gets you

1923
01:30:39,560 --> 01:30:42,480
Speaker 5: far because they're already while you're talking, they are calculating

1924
01:30:42,520 --> 01:30:45,439
Speaker 5: everything about from your eyes to how you're standing. Is

1925
01:30:45,479 --> 01:30:48,120
Speaker 5: this a person I can trust? And so we I

1926
01:30:48,120 --> 01:30:50,760
Speaker 5: mean i'd see that with jurors. I mean, jurors have

1927
01:30:50,800 --> 01:30:53,880
Speaker 5: a we are humans, we have a sixth sense about us,

1928
01:30:54,000 --> 01:30:56,960
Speaker 5: knowing when someone's genuine or not. Like the worst thing

1929
01:30:57,000 --> 01:30:59,519
Speaker 5: a witness can do on the stand is try and

1930
01:30:59,760 --> 01:31:03,360
Speaker 5: fail sympathy. If they're trying to like drum up tears.

1931
01:31:03,520 --> 01:31:07,240
Speaker 5: I mean, the jury will crucify them. A jury will

1932
01:31:07,680 --> 01:31:10,640
Speaker 5: oh yeah, you'll tank your case quickly. If somebody if

1933
01:31:10,640 --> 01:31:14,000
Speaker 5: they feel like somebody's faking it, you're done. You're done

1934
01:31:14,760 --> 01:31:17,680
Speaker 5: because they go, this person's a liar. I don't like

1935
01:31:17,680 --> 01:31:18,719
Speaker 5: anything about this person.

1936
01:31:18,920 --> 01:31:20,679
Speaker 4: I feel like that's got to be good to see.

1937
01:31:20,840 --> 01:31:23,320
Speaker 4: It's got to make you feel good about humanity. Yeah,

1938
01:31:23,360 --> 01:31:24,439
Speaker 4: oh yeah, yeah yeah.

1939
01:31:24,520 --> 01:31:26,919
Speaker 1: I mean when you get permissions, don't go up and start.

1940
01:31:26,720 --> 01:31:29,519
Speaker 5: Crying, right exactly, right, yeah, yeah, you know what. Yeah,

1941
01:31:29,600 --> 01:31:31,000
Speaker 5: this reminds me of the time I broke.

1942
01:31:31,200 --> 01:31:35,639
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah yeah.

1943
01:31:35,680 --> 01:31:39,080
Speaker 5: So when you're I I also would think it's the

1944
01:31:39,160 --> 01:31:42,719
Speaker 5: landowner when somebody has the guts to come all that way,

1945
01:31:43,080 --> 01:31:45,800
Speaker 5: drive all that way and come to you face to face,

1946
01:31:45,840 --> 01:31:48,240
Speaker 5: so they would say, you know, I don't care if

1947
01:31:48,280 --> 01:31:50,360
Speaker 5: it's a man or woman. But if that's the term

1948
01:31:50,479 --> 01:31:52,240
Speaker 5: main a man or whatever it is, you know, you

1949
01:31:52,280 --> 01:31:56,200
Speaker 5: come up and talk to me. And that's absolutely So

1950
01:31:56,280 --> 01:31:59,400
Speaker 5: I did this once. Uh it wasn't hunting, but I

1951
01:31:59,439 --> 01:32:04,600
Speaker 5: needed this location for something with a trial, and this

1952
01:32:04,720 --> 01:32:07,120
Speaker 5: guy owned the property. I talked him on the phone.

1953
01:32:07,160 --> 01:32:11,120
Speaker 5: He said no, immediate, no, no, no. But I waited

1954
01:32:11,120 --> 01:32:14,120
Speaker 5: a week, went to his house, knocked on his door.

1955
01:32:14,160 --> 01:32:16,519
Speaker 5: I wasn't wearing a suit, just wore regular clothes and

1956
01:32:16,600 --> 01:32:19,240
Speaker 5: told him what I was there for. And he goes, yeah,

1957
01:32:19,520 --> 01:32:21,840
Speaker 5: that's fine, you can do that, I mean, and nothing

1958
01:32:21,920 --> 01:32:22,519
Speaker 5: really changed.

1959
01:32:22,640 --> 01:32:24,479
Speaker 3: She didn't say that you were the person who called.

1960
01:32:24,560 --> 01:32:24,760
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1961
01:32:24,800 --> 01:32:26,840
Speaker 5: No, No, I didn't say that I was a person

1962
01:32:26,880 --> 01:32:29,280
Speaker 5: who called, but he I didn't leave with that, but

1963
01:32:29,360 --> 01:32:31,280
Speaker 5: he did ask are you the one that called? And

1964
01:32:31,320 --> 01:32:33,080
Speaker 5: I said, yeah, I am, but I wanted to meet

1965
01:32:33,120 --> 01:32:36,480
Speaker 5: you in person, And so that just changed the dynamic.

1966
01:32:36,600 --> 01:32:40,599
Speaker 5: When there's something about a handshake, there's something about, you know,

1967
01:32:40,680 --> 01:32:45,480
Speaker 5: looking somebody in the eye where that sends a different frequency,

1968
01:32:45,479 --> 01:32:48,639
Speaker 5: a different signal of trustworthiness in the conversation. It's easy

1969
01:32:48,680 --> 01:32:51,240
Speaker 5: to say no to a telemarket or whoever, or just

1970
01:32:51,280 --> 01:32:51,920
Speaker 5: not answer the.

1971
01:32:51,840 --> 01:32:57,320
Speaker 3: Phone, Randall, can you hit him with two of yours?

1972
01:32:57,360 --> 01:32:59,000
Speaker 3: I feel like are on the same wavelength.

1973
01:32:59,040 --> 01:33:02,439
Speaker 4: I like him.

1974
01:33:02,600 --> 01:33:05,479
Speaker 6: This is by the way, this is Oh, do you

1975
01:33:05,520 --> 01:33:08,200
Speaker 6: have a hunting trip planned this one and a friend

1976
01:33:08,240 --> 01:33:10,840
Speaker 6: asked to join you? You don't want them to come

1977
01:33:12,280 --> 01:33:14,920
Speaker 6: either because you want to go alone. You think they'll

1978
01:33:14,960 --> 01:33:18,160
Speaker 6: ruin the experience, or you don't think they'll enjoy the experience.

1979
01:33:18,760 --> 01:33:20,800
Speaker 6: How do you tell them that they can't join you

1980
01:33:21,000 --> 01:33:22,760
Speaker 6: without jeopardizing the relationship?

1981
01:33:24,439 --> 01:33:25,280
Speaker 5: That's a great question.

1982
01:33:25,920 --> 01:33:26,080
Speaker 3: Uh.

1983
01:33:26,120 --> 01:33:27,920
Speaker 5: And this kind of speaks a little bit to the

1984
01:33:27,960 --> 01:33:30,760
Speaker 5: compliment insult sandwich a little bit which I'm looking forward

1985
01:33:30,760 --> 01:33:34,160
Speaker 5: to discuss it. It's this so where I've seen it

1986
01:33:34,160 --> 01:33:37,320
Speaker 5: gone bad as people lead with the oh, man, you know,

1987
01:33:37,400 --> 01:33:39,439
Speaker 5: i'd love to you know, you're my best friend. Oh

1988
01:33:39,479 --> 01:33:41,839
Speaker 5: you know I loved and they just they shower the compliment,

1989
01:33:41,960 --> 01:33:46,439
Speaker 5: they shower the the fluff and then uh then they

1990
01:33:47,720 --> 01:33:51,360
Speaker 5: end it with the word. But that's that's what happens.

1991
01:33:51,640 --> 01:33:54,519
Speaker 5: I mean in relationships. I love you, Hey, I love you,

1992
01:33:55,080 --> 01:34:00,160
Speaker 5: but you're driving me crazy, or you know, you're have

1993
01:34:00,160 --> 01:34:02,800
Speaker 5: a difficult conversation and you say, yeah, you're you're fantastic.

1994
01:34:02,800 --> 01:34:07,919
Speaker 5: How's everything going is good, listen uh, and then everything

1995
01:34:08,520 --> 01:34:11,519
Speaker 5: takes like that's that's how it happens. Is you have

1996
01:34:11,560 --> 01:34:14,360
Speaker 5: that conversation, Hey, how's it going good? Every family's good,

1997
01:34:15,080 --> 01:34:17,320
Speaker 5: so listen uh, and then all of a sudden, you know,

1998
01:34:17,720 --> 01:34:21,560
Speaker 5: the whole tenor of the conversation changes. And so the

1999
01:34:21,640 --> 01:34:23,759
Speaker 5: same with the butt. You're gonna break up with somebody,

2000
01:34:23,800 --> 01:34:26,760
Speaker 5: it's I you're so great. You know, I've loved everything

2001
01:34:26,760 --> 01:34:30,000
Speaker 5: we've done together. But and then they just know it's

2002
01:34:30,000 --> 01:34:33,160
Speaker 5: it's what the word butt does is delete everything in

2003
01:34:33,200 --> 01:34:35,320
Speaker 5: front of it, because it just shows that you didn't

2004
01:34:35,400 --> 01:34:36,120
Speaker 5: really care.

2005
01:34:36,240 --> 01:34:36,479
Speaker 1: Sure.

2006
01:34:36,920 --> 01:34:40,040
Speaker 5: It just has a way of just backspace, backspace, backspace.

2007
01:34:41,200 --> 01:34:43,599
Speaker 5: So what I would recommend for this friend instead of going,

2008
01:34:43,600 --> 01:34:45,400
Speaker 5: oh man, you know, I'd love for you to come.

2009
01:34:45,600 --> 01:34:49,600
Speaker 5: But instead of that, I would I tell people to

2010
01:34:49,680 --> 01:34:53,240
Speaker 5: flip it. Start with the no. Now, I wouldn't just

2011
01:34:53,320 --> 01:34:55,840
Speaker 5: leave with no period. For your friend. It's it's it's

2012
01:34:55,840 --> 01:34:59,400
Speaker 5: your buddy, it's it's your power. I I like to

2013
01:34:59,439 --> 01:35:01,479
Speaker 5: say things when I'm really uncomfortable about it, say I

2014
01:35:01,520 --> 01:35:05,679
Speaker 5: made a promise to myself, because then then they can't

2015
01:35:05,720 --> 01:35:08,760
Speaker 5: ever disagree with it, they can't like argue with it.

2016
01:35:09,000 --> 01:35:11,799
Speaker 5: If you say, look, I promised myself I was gonna

2017
01:35:11,920 --> 01:35:14,240
Speaker 5: do a solo hunting trip this year. I'd love for

2018
01:35:14,280 --> 01:35:15,840
Speaker 5: you to come on the next one. I'd love for

2019
01:35:15,880 --> 01:35:18,800
Speaker 5: you to come in. Uh, it's just not gonna work

2020
01:35:18,800 --> 01:35:21,719
Speaker 5: out this time around, as simple as that. It's gonna

2021
01:35:21,760 --> 01:35:23,840
Speaker 5: work instead of oh, man, you know, I love to

2022
01:35:23,880 --> 01:35:26,760
Speaker 5: you for you to come, but I'm just gonna I'm

2023
01:35:26,760 --> 01:35:29,240
Speaker 5: just gonna go buy myself on this one. Thanks. Mm hmm.

2024
01:35:30,240 --> 01:35:33,040
Speaker 5: That's gonna feel a little bit less instead of I

2025
01:35:33,320 --> 01:35:35,519
Speaker 5: say this. It's the same kind of technique when I

2026
01:35:35,600 --> 01:35:37,880
Speaker 5: say you need to if it's you who needs to

2027
01:35:37,920 --> 01:35:40,320
Speaker 5: turn down an invitation, So it's flip it if you

2028
01:35:40,360 --> 01:35:43,720
Speaker 5: need to turn down an invitation. We typically saw Jo.

2029
01:35:43,800 --> 01:35:47,920
Speaker 1: Just please Randall come with me, right. I would love

2030
01:35:48,040 --> 01:35:50,080
Speaker 1: it you came with me. Yeah, he don't want to go.

2031
01:35:50,120 --> 01:35:53,040
Speaker 5: But he doesn't want to go. Uh, instead of the

2032
01:35:53,200 --> 01:35:57,240
Speaker 5: man I'd love to you know I would, but but

2033
01:35:57,240 --> 01:35:59,519
Speaker 5: but I but I can't make it. You know, I

2034
01:35:59,520 --> 01:36:02,000
Speaker 5: got What happens is we have the tendency to over explain.

2035
01:36:02,640 --> 01:36:04,760
Speaker 5: You know, I love to, but you know I got

2036
01:36:04,760 --> 01:36:06,920
Speaker 5: the I got the dog, you know, and I gotta

2037
01:36:07,280 --> 01:36:09,040
Speaker 5: I got a tree that's growing in the yard, Like.

2038
01:36:09,000 --> 01:36:10,719
Speaker 1: We have this make up the dumbest things.

2039
01:36:11,840 --> 01:36:14,000
Speaker 5: You know, it's anything anything, and everything ends up being

2040
01:36:15,000 --> 01:36:16,800
Speaker 5: you know, I got, I'm busy and you know life

2041
01:36:16,800 --> 01:36:18,520
Speaker 5: and I got you have three.

2042
01:36:18,400 --> 01:36:21,240
Speaker 4: Tariffs my ankles.

2043
01:36:22,120 --> 01:36:26,040
Speaker 5: It's this economy, you know. As soon as and there's

2044
01:36:26,120 --> 01:36:28,479
Speaker 5: that tendency you say so much that the other person

2045
01:36:28,560 --> 01:36:29,960
Speaker 5: just goes, Look if you just didn't want to come,

2046
01:36:30,040 --> 01:36:33,519
Speaker 5: just tell me, you know, it becomes disingenuous in a sense.

2047
01:36:33,880 --> 01:36:37,400
Speaker 5: So what I teaches you start with the no, and

2048
01:36:37,439 --> 01:36:41,880
Speaker 5: then you have then you instead of the gratitude the know.

2049
01:36:42,640 --> 01:36:45,160
Speaker 5: You begin with the know, then end with the gratitude.

2050
01:36:45,600 --> 01:36:47,840
Speaker 5: So instead of that thank you but I can't or

2051
01:36:47,880 --> 01:36:51,360
Speaker 5: thank you so much, I'm not going to do it. Uh,

2052
01:36:51,680 --> 01:36:54,599
Speaker 5: lead with the no. I can't make it. I hope

2053
01:36:54,640 --> 01:36:56,360
Speaker 5: it's a wonderful time. I've heard a whole lot of

2054
01:36:56,400 --> 01:36:58,040
Speaker 5: good things about it. Let me know how it goes,

2055
01:36:58,760 --> 01:37:03,240
Speaker 5: or I can't make it this go around, I'd love

2056
01:37:03,360 --> 01:37:05,840
Speaker 5: to thank you so much for inviting me. Like that's

2057
01:37:05,840 --> 01:37:07,640
Speaker 5: how usually goes. We'll say thank you, thank you so

2058
01:37:07,720 --> 01:37:10,400
Speaker 5: much for inviting me, but I can't make it. Yea,

2059
01:37:10,680 --> 01:37:13,360
Speaker 5: Instead say I can't make it. Thank you so much

2060
01:37:13,360 --> 01:37:15,439
Speaker 5: for thinking of me and invite me means a lot.

2061
01:37:15,560 --> 01:37:17,719
Speaker 5: I hope it's a great time. Like if you can

2062
01:37:18,240 --> 01:37:20,120
Speaker 5: the same thing, like if there's a new coffee shop,

2063
01:37:20,160 --> 01:37:22,400
Speaker 5: if you invited me to go with coffee and I

2064
01:37:22,439 --> 01:37:26,200
Speaker 5: couldn't make it and say no, I'd love to, but

2065
01:37:26,200 --> 01:37:29,679
Speaker 5: but I can't. It would be as simple as beginning.

2066
01:37:29,760 --> 01:37:31,800
Speaker 5: So let's put it in a framework, begin with the no.

2067
01:37:33,040 --> 01:37:37,520
Speaker 5: NeXT's gratitude three is if you can sprinkle in some kindness,

2068
01:37:37,640 --> 01:37:40,680
Speaker 5: So that is I can't make it today, Thank you

2069
01:37:40,720 --> 01:37:43,040
Speaker 5: so much for inviting me. I hope it's a great time.

2070
01:37:43,520 --> 01:37:45,640
Speaker 5: Or I heard it's a great place, or you know,

2071
01:37:45,720 --> 01:37:49,320
Speaker 5: I hope you hope you shoot him straight. Whatever it is.

2072
01:37:49,400 --> 01:37:51,439
Speaker 5: That's that's a much better way to handle it. Got you.

2073
01:37:51,520 --> 01:37:53,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, my body he used to have. He used to

2074
01:37:53,560 --> 01:37:56,439
Speaker 1: give breaking up advice for how to break up with people.

2075
01:37:57,760 --> 01:37:59,559
Speaker 1: I've been out of that game for a long long time.

2076
01:38:01,160 --> 01:38:03,400
Speaker 5: But was he just like painhandling this on the street,

2077
01:38:03,479 --> 01:38:04,400
Speaker 5: or like, well, he would.

2078
01:38:04,200 --> 01:38:06,200
Speaker 1: Tell you, I used to work for my buddy Ronnie.

2079
01:38:06,240 --> 01:38:09,560
Speaker 1: So he would tell the guys. So Ronnie, like a

2080
01:38:09,600 --> 01:38:11,960
Speaker 1: lot of guys would work for Ronnie at the age

2081
01:38:11,960 --> 01:38:14,559
Speaker 1: when we worked for Ronnie was when you were you know, eighteen,

2082
01:38:14,640 --> 01:38:17,240
Speaker 1: nineteen twenty whatever. And so he would be irritated with

2083
01:38:17,280 --> 01:38:19,799
Speaker 1: these guys that would be in these relationships that they're together,

2084
01:38:19,960 --> 01:38:22,400
Speaker 1: broke up together, broke up. So he had like this

2085
01:38:22,600 --> 01:38:25,479
Speaker 1: school of thought on breakups. I love that he didn't.

2086
01:38:25,600 --> 01:38:29,200
Speaker 1: Like he would advise, when you break up with someone,

2087
01:38:29,320 --> 01:38:32,800
Speaker 1: you can never give the idea that there's something they

2088
01:38:32,920 --> 01:38:37,960
Speaker 1: could do to improve things. Right, it's just not working out.

2089
01:38:38,160 --> 01:38:38,840
Speaker 5: That's so true.

2090
01:38:38,960 --> 01:38:41,559
Speaker 1: We just don't right, So true. Ronnie would say, it's this.

2091
01:38:42,120 --> 01:38:46,240
Speaker 1: He would advise you to go say this has nothing

2092
01:38:46,280 --> 01:38:55,800
Speaker 1: to do with you. This is just entirely me. We're done, Okay, Yeah,

2093
01:38:55,880 --> 01:38:58,080
Speaker 1: do you like that? That was what he advised because

2094
01:38:58,080 --> 01:39:02,160
Speaker 1: he's like, anytime you go, well, it's just I feel well,

2095
01:39:02,160 --> 01:39:05,160
Speaker 1: it's it's the yeah, you're creating a thing like well

2096
01:39:05,160 --> 01:39:08,680
Speaker 1: maybe if I change yes, yeah, and it's just like,

2097
01:39:08,880 --> 01:39:11,040
Speaker 1: it really has nothing to do with you. This is

2098
01:39:11,120 --> 01:39:13,280
Speaker 1: my it's just me, like, we're done.

2099
01:39:13,479 --> 01:39:16,040
Speaker 5: Yeah. So this is the category I put this in

2100
01:39:17,439 --> 01:39:20,320
Speaker 5: on having a sensitive conversation. It's a little bit different

2101
01:39:20,360 --> 01:39:22,680
Speaker 5: because most of the time in sensitive conversations let's say

2102
01:39:22,720 --> 01:39:25,120
Speaker 5: you need to fire somebody, let them go. Let's say

2103
01:39:25,160 --> 01:39:27,160
Speaker 5: you need to break up. I mean that's essentially what

2104
01:39:27,200 --> 01:39:27,559
Speaker 5: that is.

2105
01:39:28,240 --> 01:39:28,519
Speaker 1: Uh.

2106
01:39:28,560 --> 01:39:31,439
Speaker 5: We have the tendency to begin with the small talk

2107
01:39:32,280 --> 01:39:35,599
Speaker 5: of let's say you need to let somebody go. They

2108
01:39:35,640 --> 01:39:37,519
Speaker 5: sit down in your office and he goes, so, how

2109
01:39:37,600 --> 01:39:40,479
Speaker 5: you doing everything? Good as your how's your mom? How's

2110
01:39:40,800 --> 01:39:42,320
Speaker 5: y'all do do? I saw you all went fishing the

2111
01:39:42,360 --> 01:39:43,479
Speaker 5: other day. You didn'ty good?

2112
01:39:43,720 --> 01:39:46,599
Speaker 1: We're exactly were you fishing? Yeah exactly, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

2113
01:39:46,680 --> 01:39:47,840
Speaker 1: And then and then you turn it.

2114
01:39:47,880 --> 01:39:51,400
Speaker 5: Then you go so listen, uh and they know, Okay,

2115
01:39:51,439 --> 01:39:53,960
Speaker 5: it's the worst something's coming. This is terrible, Uh, the

2116
01:39:54,000 --> 01:39:57,120
Speaker 5: worst thing ever. Or the same thing with the if

2117
01:39:57,120 --> 01:40:01,040
Speaker 5: you're having a conversation with your girlfriend and go, I've

2118
01:40:01,120 --> 01:40:03,040
Speaker 5: really enjoyed being together. All of a sudden you're talking

2119
01:40:03,000 --> 01:40:05,559
Speaker 5: in past tense, right, all of a sudden you're in

2120
01:40:05,600 --> 01:40:07,759
Speaker 5: past tense, and they're like, oh, what's happening?

2121
01:40:07,800 --> 01:40:07,960
Speaker 1: Hey?

2122
01:40:07,960 --> 01:40:10,120
Speaker 5: I think you're so great, you know, I really love

2123
01:40:10,160 --> 01:40:12,400
Speaker 5: what And they're just waiting for it the whole entire time,

2124
01:40:14,000 --> 01:40:14,679
Speaker 5: and it's it's.

2125
01:40:14,560 --> 01:40:19,800
Speaker 1: Not really yeah yeah, yeah exactly, and then it's like

2126
01:40:19,880 --> 01:40:20,680
Speaker 1: it's not you, it's me.

2127
01:40:20,880 --> 01:40:23,639
Speaker 4: You remember that. Yeah, yeah, that we were together.

2128
01:40:23,760 --> 01:40:29,840
Speaker 1: Yeah was like, you know, I've enjoyed our time, but uh,

2129
01:40:30,680 --> 01:40:33,599
Speaker 1: no reason to think we're not going to continue exactly.

2130
01:40:33,960 --> 01:40:35,439
Speaker 5: You know, whenever you say like, you know, I think

2131
01:40:35,439 --> 01:40:37,320
Speaker 5: the world of you, like that kind of stuff, that

2132
01:40:37,439 --> 01:40:39,800
Speaker 5: kind of stuff is like they know something is coming.

2133
01:40:41,680 --> 01:40:45,839
Speaker 5: Instead when it's instead of using that fluff language, you

2134
01:40:46,000 --> 01:40:48,360
Speaker 5: tell them this is going to be difficult, and you

2135
01:40:48,360 --> 01:40:50,720
Speaker 5: can apply this for anything, and you this is so

2136
01:40:50,800 --> 01:40:53,240
Speaker 5: instead of the fluff, you begin with something that sounds

2137
01:40:53,280 --> 01:40:56,080
Speaker 5: like this is going to be a hard conversation. Or

2138
01:40:56,560 --> 01:40:57,840
Speaker 5: it can be as simple as this is going to

2139
01:40:57,880 --> 01:41:00,559
Speaker 5: be a difficult conversation, or you're going to say you're

2140
01:41:00,600 --> 01:41:01,719
Speaker 5: not gonna like what I have to say?

2141
01:41:01,720 --> 01:41:04,280
Speaker 8: What about the one like your old man used to

2142
01:41:04,320 --> 01:41:06,320
Speaker 8: give you, Like this is gonna hurt you more than

2143
01:41:06,360 --> 01:41:07,160
Speaker 8: it's gonna hit me.

2144
01:41:07,280 --> 01:41:10,120
Speaker 5: Yeah that Oh yeah, it's always a lie. You know,

2145
01:41:10,160 --> 01:41:12,519
Speaker 5: it's always a lie. But if they if if even

2146
01:41:12,520 --> 01:41:15,559
Speaker 5: if they you said something like you're not gonna like

2147
01:41:15,560 --> 01:41:17,160
Speaker 5: what I have to say, or this is gonna come

2148
01:41:17,200 --> 01:41:20,960
Speaker 5: as a surprise to you, or this isn't gonna be

2149
01:41:21,000 --> 01:41:25,080
Speaker 5: fun to discuss whatever that is. That is what you're

2150
01:41:25,080 --> 01:41:27,880
Speaker 5: doing is preparing them, like readying them for that conversation.

2151
01:41:28,000 --> 01:41:30,600
Speaker 5: Because if I set you down and we're gonna have

2152
01:41:30,640 --> 01:41:34,240
Speaker 5: a talk and I said, Krin, you're not gonna like

2153
01:41:34,280 --> 01:41:37,280
Speaker 5: what I have to say, You're gonna kind of you're

2154
01:41:37,280 --> 01:41:40,120
Speaker 5: gonna kind of like ready yourself to be like okay.

2155
01:41:40,240 --> 01:41:42,799
Speaker 5: Like that's how your your brain first is gonna say okay,

2156
01:41:43,600 --> 01:41:48,559
Speaker 5: and then you're gonna deliver the pitch. Yeah, yeah, whatever

2157
01:41:48,600 --> 01:41:51,680
Speaker 5: it is. So, but that's how it would say. So

2158
01:41:51,760 --> 01:41:55,000
Speaker 5: let's say we needed to break up or something. It'd say, look, grin'

2159
01:41:55,040 --> 01:41:59,599
Speaker 5: this is gonna or I could put on me I'm

2160
01:41:59,600 --> 01:42:04,160
Speaker 5: having a our time. I would put it as I

2161
01:42:04,200 --> 01:42:07,400
Speaker 5: don't like this conversation, or I've been really dreading this conversation,

2162
01:42:07,880 --> 01:42:09,840
Speaker 5: something as simple as that, like showing a little bit

2163
01:42:09,840 --> 01:42:14,200
Speaker 5: of vulnerability of I've really been dreading this conversation we're

2164
01:42:14,200 --> 01:42:16,520
Speaker 5: about to have, or I'm not gonna like this conversation,

2165
01:42:16,680 --> 01:42:19,000
Speaker 5: whatever that is. And then the next thing out of

2166
01:42:19,000 --> 01:42:22,720
Speaker 5: your mouth is we need to it's it's time, we

2167
01:42:22,760 --> 01:42:25,960
Speaker 5: need to break up, mm blah blah blah. Or let's

2168
01:42:25,960 --> 01:42:26,840
Speaker 5: say you need to let them.

2169
01:42:26,760 --> 01:42:30,920
Speaker 1: Go down some time, time things down.

2170
01:42:31,040 --> 01:42:33,559
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, that kind of stuff is that can be painful.

2171
01:42:33,640 --> 01:42:35,600
Speaker 5: So instead of the let's say, if I need to

2172
01:42:36,160 --> 01:42:40,040
Speaker 5: fire you, you come in say this might come as

2173
01:42:40,040 --> 01:42:43,519
Speaker 5: a shock to you. I need to let you go. Hm,

2174
01:42:43,560 --> 01:42:46,240
Speaker 5: you've been You've been a fantastic Now I'm giving the conversation.

2175
01:42:47,080 --> 01:42:49,439
Speaker 5: Yeah yeah, now see now I'm given the compliment Like

2176
01:42:50,080 --> 01:42:51,600
Speaker 5: now now I'm giving the compliment of you've been a

2177
01:42:51,600 --> 01:42:54,160
Speaker 5: great part of the team. Left having you, I'm looking

2178
01:42:54,160 --> 01:42:57,040
Speaker 5: forward to after that. Yes, now you're kind of like

2179
01:42:57,320 --> 01:43:00,479
Speaker 5: trying to show because now it's genuine. Now it's genuine

2180
01:43:00,479 --> 01:43:03,400
Speaker 5: instead of the hand yeah, instead of you being nervous,

2181
01:43:03,479 --> 01:43:06,280
Speaker 5: instead of you being nervous, instead of you saying you're

2182
01:43:06,439 --> 01:43:08,439
Speaker 5: such a great part of the team. You know, we

2183
01:43:08,520 --> 01:43:10,639
Speaker 5: really And now they're thinking where's this going? Where's this going?

2184
01:43:10,720 --> 01:43:15,920
Speaker 5: When you lead with the exactly exactly, But everybody's always

2185
01:43:15,920 --> 01:43:18,280
Speaker 5: waiting for the butt, they're waiting for the down, they're

2186
01:43:18,280 --> 01:43:20,400
Speaker 5: always thinking the worst. So if you lead with the

2187
01:43:21,280 --> 01:43:23,800
Speaker 5: this is going to be a difficult conversation. I need

2188
01:43:23,840 --> 01:43:25,920
Speaker 5: to let you go. You've been an awesome part of

2189
01:43:25,960 --> 01:43:29,280
Speaker 5: the team, and I look forward to where you go

2190
01:43:29,280 --> 01:43:30,760
Speaker 5: in your career. It's just it's just not going to

2191
01:43:30,840 --> 01:43:33,400
Speaker 5: be here. I mean that kind of thing is way

2192
01:43:33,439 --> 01:43:36,680
Speaker 5: more credibility like that, or even if you lead with

2193
01:43:36,840 --> 01:43:39,000
Speaker 5: like yeah, and I look forward to helping you, you know,

2194
01:43:39,560 --> 01:43:41,360
Speaker 5: move forward and wherever you're going to be in your career.

2195
01:43:41,400 --> 01:43:43,920
Speaker 5: If you feel like this is somebody you really enjoyed

2196
01:43:44,360 --> 01:43:47,920
Speaker 5: and you really do wish the best for them, because

2197
01:43:48,200 --> 01:43:52,000
Speaker 5: it's because then they'll start switching the conversation to where

2198
01:43:52,040 --> 01:43:55,000
Speaker 5: they go next, what happens next. Rather than complaining about

2199
01:43:55,000 --> 01:43:57,519
Speaker 5: the present and saying what's wrong with me? What could

2200
01:43:57,520 --> 01:44:00,000
Speaker 5: I have done better? You're staying the decision has been

2201
01:44:00,080 --> 01:44:01,960
Speaker 5: on and even if I say no, this is a

2202
01:44:02,000 --> 01:44:06,440
Speaker 5: me decision. So that that's that's kind of like the

2203
01:44:06,479 --> 01:44:10,599
Speaker 5: what Ronnie was saying. Ronnie, right, I'm saying that this

2204
01:44:10,680 --> 01:44:13,160
Speaker 5: is this is uh, this is a me things.

2205
01:44:13,520 --> 01:44:15,719
Speaker 1: I wish he could clean it up.

2206
01:44:19,160 --> 01:44:21,920
Speaker 4: Right now. It doesn't subscribe to your Instagram channel?

2207
01:44:22,040 --> 01:44:24,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, so you a finessed that a little.

2208
01:44:24,240 --> 01:44:27,200
Speaker 1: What what what I'm picking up about what you're talking about.

2209
01:44:27,320 --> 01:44:28,760
Speaker 1: I don't know if you frame it this way in

2210
01:44:28,800 --> 01:44:32,080
Speaker 1: your book, but a lot of it is people think

2211
01:44:32,080 --> 01:44:34,720
Speaker 1: of conversations a lot of times where they're living and

2212
01:44:34,760 --> 01:44:36,840
Speaker 1: they're trying to jump in the other person's head. Yeah,

2213
01:44:36,880 --> 01:44:38,400
Speaker 1: but a lot of what you're saying would kind of

2214
01:44:38,680 --> 01:44:42,519
Speaker 1: it almost makes it easier for the deliverer. Yes, Like

2215
01:44:42,560 --> 01:44:47,559
Speaker 1: I could picture if you're dreading firing somebody right right,

2216
01:44:47,760 --> 01:44:50,000
Speaker 1: it's terrible, Like I've had this, it's terrible.

2217
01:44:50,120 --> 01:44:50,320
Speaker 5: Yeah.

2218
01:44:50,520 --> 01:44:52,840
Speaker 1: If you just came and then you're doing the well,

2219
01:44:52,880 --> 01:44:54,200
Speaker 1: how's this, how's that?

2220
01:44:54,840 --> 01:44:55,720
Speaker 5: It's all for you.

2221
01:44:55,880 --> 01:44:58,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you just said, like you, I have some

2222
01:44:58,560 --> 01:45:02,320
Speaker 1: bad I have some some bad news to deliver to you. Yeah,

2223
01:45:02,360 --> 01:45:03,599
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, you're probably going.

2224
01:45:04,640 --> 01:45:08,559
Speaker 5: Dude exactly, and then everything else becomes downhill easier because

2225
01:45:08,600 --> 01:45:10,680
Speaker 5: what you're doing when you're trying to lead with before you,

2226
01:45:11,160 --> 01:45:13,559
Speaker 5: because the whole conversation is bad news, you're just putting

2227
01:45:13,600 --> 01:45:14,920
Speaker 5: a label on the whole thing. So if I were

2228
01:45:14,960 --> 01:45:17,240
Speaker 5: to sit down and you sit down and go, I

2229
01:45:17,280 --> 01:45:20,680
Speaker 5: got bad news. Like my team, I have a very

2230
01:45:20,680 --> 01:45:23,559
Speaker 5: small team. But if anything's going on what they do

2231
01:45:23,680 --> 01:45:25,560
Speaker 5: with me that I've asked for, they say, You're not

2232
01:45:25,600 --> 01:45:27,559
Speaker 5: gonna like what I'm about to say. That's what they say.

2233
01:45:27,600 --> 01:45:29,920
Speaker 5: So I'll pick up the phone and the first thing

2234
01:45:30,240 --> 01:45:32,320
Speaker 5: they'll say is Jefferson, you're not gonna like what I

2235
01:45:32,320 --> 01:45:34,360
Speaker 5: have to say, Or they'll say you're not gonna like this.

2236
01:45:34,479 --> 01:45:36,240
Speaker 5: That's what they'll do. I'll say, They'll say you're not

2237
01:45:36,240 --> 01:45:39,240
Speaker 5: gonna like this, and I'll always go, okay, I'm ready,

2238
01:45:39,280 --> 01:45:41,479
Speaker 5: And whatever I'm thinking of is not as bad as

2239
01:45:41,520 --> 01:45:43,439
Speaker 5: what they say. You know, I always think of to

2240
01:45:43,520 --> 01:45:45,880
Speaker 5: the worst, like possible scenario. So that's when they pick

2241
01:45:45,920 --> 01:45:47,240
Speaker 5: up the phone they say, you're not gonna like this,

2242
01:45:47,520 --> 01:45:50,360
Speaker 5: I'll go ready. No, I mean, that's typically how I

2243
01:45:51,560 --> 01:45:55,320
Speaker 5: handle it. But yeah, any it's it's much kinder on

2244
01:45:55,360 --> 01:45:57,839
Speaker 5: the other person. So in terms of let's talk benefits,

2245
01:45:57,840 --> 01:45:59,680
Speaker 5: it's much kinder on the other person because they're not

2246
01:45:59,680 --> 01:46:02,559
Speaker 5: getting this, where are we going with this? I'm getting anxious,

2247
01:46:02,640 --> 01:46:05,559
Speaker 5: they feel the hammer being dropped. Yeah, you're getting straight

2248
01:46:05,600 --> 01:46:06,920
Speaker 5: to the point. So a lot of the ways that

2249
01:46:06,920 --> 01:46:10,559
Speaker 5: clarity is is kindness. Being direct can be a lot

2250
01:46:10,600 --> 01:46:12,400
Speaker 5: of a relief, and it's much better on you because

2251
01:46:12,400 --> 01:46:14,920
Speaker 5: instead of looking at this big hill I gotta get over,

2252
01:46:15,400 --> 01:46:17,840
Speaker 5: I'm I'm I'm used the front door. That's what is

2253
01:46:17,880 --> 01:46:18,160
Speaker 5: there for.

2254
01:46:19,520 --> 01:46:22,599
Speaker 8: That's kind of a lot different than the duck blind

2255
01:46:22,840 --> 01:46:26,479
Speaker 8: bad caller thing because you could use it on the

2256
01:46:26,800 --> 01:46:27,439
Speaker 8: bad caller.

2257
01:46:27,760 --> 01:46:32,720
Speaker 5: Yeah yeah you could, Yeah, you certainly could. You may

2258
01:46:32,760 --> 01:46:34,479
Speaker 5: don't want to do that in the blind with them

2259
01:46:34,520 --> 01:46:35,600
Speaker 5: while you're trying to call that.

2260
01:46:35,680 --> 01:46:35,880
Speaker 1: Yeah.

2261
01:46:36,120 --> 01:46:38,840
Speaker 4: The line in that scenario I've always used is now's

2262
01:46:38,920 --> 01:46:39,959
Speaker 4: not the time to practice.

2263
01:46:40,320 --> 01:46:41,200
Speaker 1: That's a great one.

2264
01:46:42,640 --> 01:46:43,760
Speaker 5: That's a great one.

2265
01:46:43,880 --> 01:46:45,040
Speaker 4: Today we're here to kill stuff.

2266
01:46:45,120 --> 01:46:47,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, practice, I want to hear with a very quick one.

2267
01:46:47,080 --> 01:46:50,200
Speaker 1: It's a life or death one muscle control. Someone's practicing

2268
01:46:50,200 --> 01:46:54,960
Speaker 1: bad muscle control. You just right, how do you hit them?

2269
01:46:55,040 --> 01:46:55,960
Speaker 1: You just got to hit them.

2270
01:46:55,920 --> 01:46:57,320
Speaker 4: Right front door?

2271
01:46:57,479 --> 01:47:00,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I have had a trial

2272
01:47:00,200 --> 01:47:03,240
Speaker 5: coach and in law school he would the whole point

2273
01:47:03,280 --> 01:47:07,200
Speaker 5: would be instead of just trying to say things, help,

2274
01:47:07,320 --> 01:47:09,760
Speaker 5: hope that Jerry figures it out, they use the front door.

2275
01:47:09,760 --> 01:47:12,320
Speaker 5: That's what is there for. And so it's that kind

2276
01:47:12,360 --> 01:47:14,360
Speaker 5: of mentality when you're talking about life or death, when

2277
01:47:14,400 --> 01:47:17,280
Speaker 5: you're talking about we could really injure somebody, you be

2278
01:47:17,360 --> 01:47:19,479
Speaker 5: direct as you can. There's no sugar coating, there's no

2279
01:47:19,600 --> 01:47:21,680
Speaker 5: I really care so much about your feelings. This is

2280
01:47:21,760 --> 01:47:22,840
Speaker 5: we're saving lives.

2281
01:47:23,000 --> 01:47:24,519
Speaker 1: You know, I love you, man, Yeah, you know, I

2282
01:47:24,560 --> 01:47:28,080
Speaker 1: love hanging out with you. Yeah, yeah, it's great to

2283
01:47:28,080 --> 01:47:32,439
Speaker 1: have you here, you know, but uh, yeah, you know,

2284
01:47:32,520 --> 01:47:35,360
Speaker 1: sometimes I notice your muslim at my forehead.

2285
01:47:36,439 --> 01:47:38,840
Speaker 5: Exactly exactly exactly.

2286
01:47:38,560 --> 01:47:41,240
Speaker 4: It's currently aimed at my ankle. Yeah, I don't like

2287
01:47:41,280 --> 01:47:42,000
Speaker 4: that either.

2288
01:47:41,760 --> 01:47:45,800
Speaker 5: But yeah, yeah, there's definitely sometimes for true conversation. But

2289
01:47:45,840 --> 01:47:47,839
Speaker 5: when you're out in the field like that, yeah, sometimes

2290
01:47:47,880 --> 01:47:50,559
Speaker 5: you just gotta you gotta lay it out because it's, uh,

2291
01:47:50,720 --> 01:47:55,120
Speaker 5: it's either that or your ankle. It's kind of the mandalorian.

2292
01:47:55,760 --> 01:47:57,639
Speaker 1: Who's got this one that's in purple right now.

2293
01:47:58,920 --> 01:48:01,640
Speaker 4: Do you ever run across trial attorneys where you're like, now,

2294
01:48:01,680 --> 01:48:04,080
Speaker 4: it's not not the time to practice here, go get go,

2295
01:48:04,120 --> 01:48:05,280
Speaker 4: get yourself a coach.

2296
01:48:05,840 --> 01:48:08,560
Speaker 5: Uh are you talking about like ed in trial and

2297
01:48:08,680 --> 01:48:11,920
Speaker 5: co with your I mean typically not, because you have

2298
01:48:12,120 --> 01:48:15,200
Speaker 5: like a first chair, second chair. There's kind of a hierarchy.

2299
01:48:16,600 --> 01:48:20,439
Speaker 5: I I like going to trials by myself at the

2300
01:48:20,479 --> 01:48:22,960
Speaker 5: table because I don't want the jury thinking that I

2301
01:48:23,000 --> 01:48:26,120
Speaker 5: have like a huge team. So I will only bring

2302
01:48:26,160 --> 01:48:28,120
Speaker 5: one pair legal and they'll sit in the back. I

2303
01:48:28,160 --> 01:48:30,599
Speaker 5: don't have like a whole and I carry my own boxes.

2304
01:48:30,640 --> 01:48:32,280
Speaker 5: I don't have the others. I have like a pair

2305
01:48:32,320 --> 01:48:34,479
Speaker 5: of legal brings in like all their boxes, and they're

2306
01:48:34,479 --> 01:48:36,360
Speaker 5: the ones that they think that they're like the talent.

2307
01:48:36,360 --> 01:48:38,000
Speaker 5: They have to sit at the table and everybody else

2308
01:48:38,000 --> 01:48:42,480
Speaker 5: bring them snacks and stuff. Anyway, Uh yeah, I probably

2309
01:48:42,760 --> 01:48:45,559
Speaker 5: probably not, not in the trial sense, but there are

2310
01:48:45,640 --> 01:48:47,920
Speaker 5: times in it, let's say, in a deposition, they'll like

2311
01:48:47,960 --> 01:48:50,720
Speaker 5: try and slide you questions that you think you should ask,

2312
01:48:51,360 --> 01:48:55,439
Speaker 5: and sometimes they're valuable. But I've had it where I've

2313
01:48:55,439 --> 01:48:58,200
Speaker 5: had like a very new associate where I read the

2314
01:48:58,240 --> 01:49:00,679
Speaker 5: first one and it was like an absolute horrible question,

2315
01:49:00,800 --> 01:49:03,080
Speaker 5: Like it was absolutely not I'm not gonna because I

2316
01:49:03,080 --> 01:49:04,920
Speaker 5: know in my head if I asked that that's what's

2317
01:49:04,920 --> 01:49:07,040
Speaker 5: going to happen. He doesn't have that knowledge yet, so

2318
01:49:07,240 --> 01:49:09,840
Speaker 5: instead he might just pass it and without looking I

2319
01:49:09,880 --> 01:49:12,920
Speaker 5: just pass it back. You know. It's like we'll talk

2320
01:49:12,920 --> 01:49:14,720
Speaker 5: about it in a break. Let me use as a

2321
01:49:14,720 --> 01:49:16,600
Speaker 5: teaching moment. But I like that your head's thinking. I

2322
01:49:16,680 --> 01:49:18,920
Speaker 5: like that you're trying to It's like that, I like

2323
01:49:18,960 --> 01:49:20,759
Speaker 5: that you're trying to practice. I like that you're trying

2324
01:49:20,800 --> 01:49:23,600
Speaker 5: to be part of what we're doing. Now is not

2325
01:49:23,640 --> 01:49:25,599
Speaker 5: the time, Let's.

2326
01:49:25,360 --> 01:49:27,280
Speaker 1: Do one more because it was a good one. Randall

2327
01:49:27,280 --> 01:49:28,400
Speaker 1: you you're one about money.

2328
01:49:28,960 --> 01:49:35,479
Speaker 6: Oh yes, Uh, you would like to spend or may

2329
01:49:35,520 --> 01:49:38,400
Speaker 6: have already spent an excessive amount of money on a

2330
01:49:38,439 --> 01:49:41,519
Speaker 6: trip or piece of gear. How do you rationalize it

2331
01:49:41,960 --> 01:49:47,080
Speaker 6: to your partner or to a friend. Okay, Like sometimes

2332
01:49:47,240 --> 01:49:51,160
Speaker 6: you have like a a stupid purchase and people are like, wow,

2333
01:49:51,200 --> 01:49:52,679
Speaker 6: you spent money on that or whatever.

2334
01:49:52,720 --> 01:49:55,800
Speaker 4: I mean, I feel like this is one of the awkward.

2335
01:49:55,560 --> 01:49:58,479
Speaker 6: Conversations that that you run into.

2336
01:49:59,120 --> 01:49:59,240
Speaker 1: Now.

2337
01:49:59,280 --> 01:50:01,240
Speaker 6: It's like, how do you old a case for something

2338
01:50:01,280 --> 01:50:04,639
Speaker 6: that is valuable to you but maybe not to other people?

2339
01:50:04,720 --> 01:50:04,840
Speaker 2: Oh?

2340
01:50:04,920 --> 01:50:07,280
Speaker 4: Yeah. Sometimes you have like a friend and you know

2341
01:50:07,400 --> 01:50:09,200
Speaker 4: all about them, and all of a sudden they show

2342
01:50:09,240 --> 01:50:10,559
Speaker 4: up with a brand new track and you're like, god,

2343
01:50:10,600 --> 01:50:13,320
Speaker 4: I hope somebody died. Yeah, you can't have. You shouldn't

2344
01:50:13,360 --> 01:50:14,080
Speaker 4: be getting a new.

2345
01:50:14,000 --> 01:50:16,400
Speaker 5: Track, right, Yeah, it's like the last thing they should

2346
01:50:16,439 --> 01:50:16,720
Speaker 5: be doing.

2347
01:50:16,960 --> 01:50:19,000
Speaker 1: If you're talking about in a relationship, when you pool

2348
01:50:19,040 --> 01:50:20,800
Speaker 1: your money and you've got to go buy something you

2349
01:50:20,840 --> 01:50:22,760
Speaker 1: can't you want to, you don't still want to be

2350
01:50:22,800 --> 01:50:24,880
Speaker 1: bothered trying to explain why you had to buy it.

2351
01:50:25,160 --> 01:50:27,080
Speaker 8: I don't know if it's a big expense and you're

2352
01:50:27,320 --> 01:50:30,080
Speaker 8: you're like springing it on them, afterwards.

2353
01:50:30,280 --> 01:50:31,800
Speaker 1: Well, that's where we're here to ask the extent and.

2354
01:50:31,800 --> 01:50:34,679
Speaker 7: To add context. We've we pulled our audience before five

2355
01:50:34,760 --> 01:50:37,880
Speaker 7: hundred listeners asked a question, have you ever lied to

2356
01:50:37,880 --> 01:50:40,200
Speaker 7: a significant other about the price of gear? And it

2357
01:50:40,280 --> 01:50:42,640
Speaker 7: was over seventy percent of them have lied to a

2358
01:50:42,640 --> 01:50:43,280
Speaker 7: significant other.

2359
01:50:43,439 --> 01:50:48,519
Speaker 5: They probably lied on that too, They probably I've obfuscated

2360
01:50:49,080 --> 01:50:51,080
Speaker 5: the price of gear yeah, yeah.

2361
01:50:51,000 --> 01:50:54,479
Speaker 7: Okay, rather than you were like massaging the truth.

2362
01:50:54,640 --> 01:50:54,920
Speaker 1: Yeah.

2363
01:50:55,000 --> 01:50:58,040
Speaker 6: Yeah, I'll never say it was like, I'll be like

2364
01:50:58,200 --> 01:51:00,880
Speaker 6: it was about two hundred dollars, two hundred and eighty

2365
01:51:00,960 --> 01:51:01,439
Speaker 6: nine dollars.

2366
01:51:02,200 --> 01:51:07,240
Speaker 5: Yeah, And you find, like, I feel like the conversation

2367
01:51:07,320 --> 01:51:09,720
Speaker 5: is a little different when it's a spouse or a

2368
01:51:09,800 --> 01:51:11,840
Speaker 5: significant other versus just a buddy.

2369
01:51:12,320 --> 01:51:14,880
Speaker 1: You don't be a business partner, no, I mean partner.

2370
01:51:15,120 --> 01:51:15,920
Speaker 5: Yeah yeah, yeah.

2371
01:51:16,000 --> 01:51:22,640
Speaker 4: I was present at the return of an item that

2372
01:51:22,720 --> 01:51:25,760
Speaker 4: I had no interest in Randalls no, no, no, of

2373
01:51:26,760 --> 01:51:30,759
Speaker 4: my girlfriend okay, and and we we don't pull money.

2374
01:51:31,280 --> 01:51:35,599
Speaker 4: But I started laughing and I was like, that's how

2375
01:51:35,680 --> 01:51:39,240
Speaker 4: much that cost? Yeah? And you know it was a

2376
01:51:39,280 --> 01:51:43,599
Speaker 4: guy executing the exchange and he's like, you didn't tell

2377
01:51:43,600 --> 01:51:44,200
Speaker 4: her about this?

2378
01:51:44,439 --> 01:51:45,720
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's hilarious.

2379
01:51:47,720 --> 01:51:50,120
Speaker 4: My girlfriend, it's like it's not his money.

2380
01:51:50,240 --> 01:51:51,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I mean.

2381
01:51:51,640 --> 01:51:53,439
Speaker 4: It's a point, funny funny.

2382
01:51:53,760 --> 01:51:56,920
Speaker 5: I mean, like, so it comes to mind for me,

2383
01:51:57,280 --> 01:51:59,880
Speaker 5: is yeah, if you're pulling money, there's a very big difference.

2384
01:52:00,320 --> 01:52:02,439
Speaker 5: You just all of a sudden show up with, you know,

2385
01:52:02,479 --> 01:52:06,360
Speaker 5: a thousand dollars worth of hunting. I feel like clothes

2386
01:52:06,400 --> 01:52:10,080
Speaker 5: are so expensive now that you don't at least have

2387
01:52:10,120 --> 01:52:13,760
Speaker 5: that conversation about it. Now. To me, a lot of

2388
01:52:13,760 --> 01:52:15,839
Speaker 5: it is it's none other business. If it's a partner,

2389
01:52:18,600 --> 01:52:22,040
Speaker 5: I'm I'm gonna want to have that conversation if you

2390
01:52:22,080 --> 01:52:26,200
Speaker 5: can beforehand, unless you're unless you're just unless you're okay

2391
01:52:26,240 --> 01:52:27,679
Speaker 5: with having the fight about it later.

2392
01:52:28,400 --> 01:52:31,240
Speaker 6: I'm wondering how to set myself up for success in

2393
01:52:31,280 --> 01:52:32,920
Speaker 6: those types of conversations.

2394
01:52:33,400 --> 01:52:36,599
Speaker 4: Yeah, you come across a hot deal trying to keep.

2395
01:52:36,479 --> 01:52:40,080
Speaker 1: The relationships together. Yeah, relationship together. You're trying to get

2396
01:52:40,120 --> 01:52:40,840
Speaker 1: what your stuff.

2397
01:52:40,880 --> 01:52:42,680
Speaker 6: Yeah, I don't want to say like, hey, I know

2398
01:52:42,760 --> 01:52:46,760
Speaker 6: this is really stupid, Okay, but there's this.

2399
01:52:46,880 --> 01:52:48,680
Speaker 5: Basically how he did that. He's how he did that.

2400
01:52:48,720 --> 01:52:50,719
Speaker 5: I know this is really stupid, but yeah.

2401
01:52:50,680 --> 01:52:53,000
Speaker 6: See that's that's what I'm wondering. I mean, now, I'm

2402
01:52:53,760 --> 01:52:56,560
Speaker 6: my instincts. You've turned my head on all my instincts

2403
01:52:56,600 --> 01:53:00,600
Speaker 6: in these types of conversations where I'll over explain the

2404
01:53:00,640 --> 01:53:05,639
Speaker 6: benefits of going on said trip or or purchasing said item. Yeah,

2405
01:53:05,640 --> 01:53:07,360
Speaker 6: you know, how do we how do we set ourselves

2406
01:53:07,439 --> 01:53:10,800
Speaker 6: up for success? I like the idea of argue less,

2407
01:53:10,840 --> 01:53:12,679
Speaker 6: talk more, but I'd also like to win.

2408
01:53:13,560 --> 01:53:18,559
Speaker 9: Yeah, you know, I'm going to tell you about a

2409
01:53:18,560 --> 01:53:21,400
Speaker 9: gun that i'd like, and we're gonna walk away from

2410
01:53:21,479 --> 01:53:24,600
Speaker 9: this conversation with you understanding.

2411
01:53:23,920 --> 01:53:28,000
Speaker 1: That I should get this. We're gonna walk away from

2412
01:53:28,000 --> 01:53:33,000
Speaker 1: this conversation with me owning that gun. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Yeah.

2413
01:53:33,120 --> 01:53:35,599
Speaker 3: I feel like that's probably not exactly what he teaches.

2414
01:53:35,680 --> 01:53:36,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a little different.

2415
01:53:37,040 --> 01:53:41,360
Speaker 5: It's slightly different. Like I think there's also what I

2416
01:53:41,439 --> 01:53:46,680
Speaker 5: have seen work is as one is whether or not

2417
01:53:46,760 --> 01:53:49,840
Speaker 5: you give the permission to even buy the purchase, Because

2418
01:53:49,840 --> 01:53:51,840
Speaker 5: if you feel like you have to get permission, then

2419
01:53:51,840 --> 01:53:53,640
Speaker 5: then you feel like you have to hold court on

2420
01:53:54,760 --> 01:53:57,120
Speaker 5: whether it is or not worth your time, is or

2421
01:53:57,200 --> 01:53:58,360
Speaker 5: not worth your and the you have to feel like

2422
01:53:58,360 --> 01:54:00,360
Speaker 5: you're over explaining, and then we get frustrated having to

2423
01:54:00,439 --> 01:54:02,479
Speaker 5: justify a world that they don't understand.

2424
01:54:03,280 --> 01:54:03,840
Speaker 1: Yeah.

2425
01:54:03,880 --> 01:54:06,880
Speaker 5: And so instead of the hey, so I'm hoping to buy,

2426
01:54:07,400 --> 01:54:10,160
Speaker 5: I would switch it to I'm going to buy and

2427
01:54:10,479 --> 01:54:12,559
Speaker 5: that sounds a lot more definite of Hey, I'm going

2428
01:54:12,640 --> 01:54:15,960
Speaker 5: to go buy a rifle. And also this is this

2429
01:54:16,040 --> 01:54:19,320
Speaker 5: element too of and this applies to a lot of

2430
01:54:19,360 --> 01:54:23,800
Speaker 5: different contexts. But I say, when it comes to giving

2431
01:54:23,840 --> 01:54:27,240
Speaker 5: your case on something, don't be a waterfall. Be a

2432
01:54:27,320 --> 01:54:30,640
Speaker 5: well meaning. Instead of feeling like I have to anticipate

2433
01:54:30,680 --> 01:54:32,480
Speaker 5: all of your questions and I have to go ahead

2434
01:54:32,480 --> 01:54:35,760
Speaker 5: and fend off every arrow you're gonna send shoot my way,

2435
01:54:35,920 --> 01:54:37,360
Speaker 5: and I have to just blah blah blah blah blah

2436
01:54:37,360 --> 01:54:40,360
Speaker 5: blah blah blah, which is only going to guarantee you're

2437
01:54:40,360 --> 01:54:42,920
Speaker 5: gonna get a lot more questions about it. Be a

2438
01:54:42,960 --> 01:54:45,040
Speaker 5: well meaning, they're going to have to ask a question.

2439
01:54:45,240 --> 01:54:47,040
Speaker 5: You'd be very short. They're going to have to ask

2440
01:54:47,080 --> 01:54:50,920
Speaker 5: a question. I do this with a depositions, So I

2441
01:54:50,960 --> 01:54:54,960
Speaker 5: trained my witnesses to make the attorney ask the question.

2442
01:54:55,520 --> 01:54:58,440
Speaker 5: So don't just try and I guess where they're going

2443
01:54:58,520 --> 01:55:00,880
Speaker 5: with their questioning. Don't try and give the more. The

2444
01:55:00,920 --> 01:55:03,760
Speaker 5: longer of an answer you give, you're guaranteed to get

2445
01:55:03,800 --> 01:55:08,640
Speaker 5: more questions period. It's the same thing with asking anybody

2446
01:55:08,640 --> 01:55:10,400
Speaker 5: for anything. So if you're just gonna say, hey, I'm

2447
01:55:10,440 --> 01:55:14,120
Speaker 5: going out to purchase this gun nitas for this whatever trip,

2448
01:55:15,120 --> 01:55:17,760
Speaker 5: allow don't try and anticipate the question. Just allow them

2449
01:55:17,760 --> 01:55:19,200
Speaker 5: to to ask.

2450
01:55:19,320 --> 01:55:21,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, what if you come in and you act like

2451
01:55:21,080 --> 01:55:23,480
Speaker 1: you're mad about it?

2452
01:55:23,720 --> 01:55:27,440
Speaker 5: I got yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, that's probably a really

2453
01:55:27,440 --> 01:55:32,680
Speaker 5: good technique. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, it's like I gotta

2454
01:55:32,720 --> 01:55:35,040
Speaker 5: do this, Like then you act like it's a big

2455
01:55:35,160 --> 01:55:36,360
Speaker 5: uh inconvenience.

2456
01:55:36,800 --> 01:55:39,320
Speaker 1: Oh it'll be okay, sweet, just pick a good one.

2457
01:55:39,560 --> 01:55:43,080
Speaker 5: Yeah yeah, yeah, well well that's true. You can you could, uh,

2458
01:55:43,160 --> 01:55:44,440
Speaker 5: you could try and do that and get them on

2459
01:55:44,480 --> 01:55:46,640
Speaker 5: your side. Go get you a good one.

2460
01:55:46,640 --> 01:55:52,600
Speaker 4: But opportunity a lifetime. It's pre cited in does that exist.

2461
01:55:52,800 --> 01:55:55,560
Speaker 7: Yeah, you can try crying randall. If that doesn't work.

2462
01:55:55,520 --> 01:55:56,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, a little kid.

2463
01:55:57,040 --> 01:55:58,960
Speaker 5: You have a kid with a cast about.

2464
01:55:58,680 --> 01:56:01,240
Speaker 8: Getting to the friends, Like, do you've not got to

2465
01:56:01,520 --> 01:56:02,200
Speaker 8: justify that?

2466
01:56:02,320 --> 01:56:06,800
Speaker 6: Like no, no, I mean no, no, yeah, no, I

2467
01:56:06,800 --> 01:56:08,680
Speaker 6: don't know. It's just I was just trying not to

2468
01:56:08,680 --> 01:56:09,960
Speaker 6: make it about my marriage.

2469
01:56:10,320 --> 01:56:12,320
Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, so what would happen? My grandfather would

2470
01:56:12,360 --> 01:56:14,920
Speaker 5: say it a little bit, Yeah, my grandfather would use

2471
01:56:14,960 --> 01:56:16,520
Speaker 5: this line. He'd say it found its way to me.

2472
01:56:16,800 --> 01:56:19,480
Speaker 5: That's what he'd say, Hey, I just it's found its

2473
01:56:19,520 --> 01:56:21,840
Speaker 5: way to me. Like that's like he just he went

2474
01:56:21,840 --> 01:56:23,720
Speaker 5: out and bought way too many fishing rods or whatever

2475
01:56:23,760 --> 01:56:26,720
Speaker 5: it is. Lures he didn't. I remember, he came in

2476
01:56:26,760 --> 01:56:30,080
Speaker 5: with like a huge he learned about, like he could

2477
01:56:30,120 --> 01:56:32,520
Speaker 5: buy in bulk. And so we had these lures called

2478
01:56:32,520 --> 01:56:36,640
Speaker 5: slugos and yeah, yeah, yeah and so and uh when

2479
01:56:36,640 --> 01:56:39,240
Speaker 5: they first came out and uh, he goes. First thing

2480
01:56:39,280 --> 01:56:41,040
Speaker 5: he says was they just they found their way to me,

2481
01:56:41,360 --> 01:56:45,800
Speaker 5: you know, like yeah exactly. They're like, oh okay, all.

2482
01:56:45,800 --> 01:56:49,400
Speaker 1: Right, we're gonna wrap it up. But uh, everybody check

2483
01:56:49,440 --> 01:56:51,800
Speaker 1: out the next conversation. I'm gonna you know how I said,

2484
01:56:51,800 --> 01:56:53,360
Speaker 1: didn't read it. Yeah, I'm gonna read it.

2485
01:56:53,360 --> 01:56:54,720
Speaker 5: Oh awesome, thanks, I'm not lying.

2486
01:56:54,720 --> 01:56:56,520
Speaker 1: It sits on my bed, it sits on my stack.

2487
01:56:58,520 --> 01:56:59,680
Speaker 5: Yeah, thank you. Man.

2488
01:57:00,800 --> 01:57:03,720
Speaker 1: You're waiting behind. You're in line behind a book about

2489
01:57:03,760 --> 01:57:07,640
Speaker 1: jaguars and a book about Kate Buffalo. Oh all right,

2490
01:57:07,720 --> 01:57:08,440
Speaker 1: this comes up.

2491
01:57:08,640 --> 01:57:09,400
Speaker 5: This I'm honored.

2492
01:57:09,600 --> 01:57:13,200
Speaker 1: The next conversation, argue, let's talk more. Jefferson Fisher, thanks

2493
01:57:13,200 --> 01:57:15,280
Speaker 1: many learn how to get all kinds of permissions, all

2494
01:57:15,360 --> 01:57:16,000
Speaker 1: kinds of guns.

2495
01:57:17,360 --> 01:57:17,840
Speaker 4: There you go.

2496
01:57:18,920 --> 01:57:20,600
Speaker 1: I'm looking for how to get on public lands.

2497
01:57:20,680 --> 01:57:23,800
Speaker 7: I really respect Goodreads ratings. Your book has a four

2498
01:57:23,800 --> 01:57:26,600
Speaker 7: point six to two. That's outstanding, awesome. It's hard to

2499
01:57:26,600 --> 01:57:28,320
Speaker 7: find a book about four point five.

2500
01:57:28,160 --> 01:57:31,360
Speaker 1: So really fantastic congratulation. Thank you very much.

2501
01:57:31,360 --> 01:57:31,920
Speaker 5: I appreciate it.

2502
01:57:32,000 --> 01:57:34,040
Speaker 1: Ladies, gentlemen, Jefferson Fisher, thanks for coming on.

2503
01:57:34,080 --> 01:58:01,760
Speaker 5: Thanks man, Thank you