WEBVTT - Decarbonizing Heavy Trucking and the Tesla Experience 0:00:01.440 --> 0:00:04.240 I'm Matt Miller and I'm Hannah Elliott, and this is 0:00:04.320 --> 0:00:04.960 Hot Pursuit. 0:00:12.600 --> 0:00:15.720 Okay, today we have a pretty fun and interesting show 0:00:15.920 --> 0:00:18.920 I have here with me in our New York studio. 0:00:18.960 --> 0:00:22.520 Ali Javidan who runs Range Energy. It's a business that 0:00:22.720 --> 0:00:26.400 powers trailers. Of the tractor trailer duo we all know 0:00:26.520 --> 0:00:28.400 so well, and we'll talk to him about that for 0:00:28.400 --> 0:00:29.840 a second. But I just had him on my TV 0:00:29.920 --> 0:00:34.160 show and it was really cool because, you know, Katie 0:00:34.159 --> 0:00:36.720 Greifeld and Shanalie Basset co anchor my show with me, 0:00:36.760 --> 0:00:41.600 and it's all about markets. We mostly talk about, you know, finance, 0:00:42.440 --> 0:00:45.880 but they were both enthralled with the tractor trailer story. 0:00:46.000 --> 0:00:49.000 And then I found out that they also have, like me, 0:00:49.120 --> 0:00:51.080 dreams of becoming a truck driver one day. 0:00:51.240 --> 0:00:51.680 Awesome. 0:00:51.800 --> 0:00:53.560 I think a lot of people have that, Hannah. 0:00:53.320 --> 0:00:56.960 Do you ever, No, no, no, no, that's my nightmare. 0:00:57.040 --> 0:00:59.240 But I do think a lot of people have like 0:00:59.280 --> 0:01:01.440 a secret fan want to see about that lifestyle. 0:01:02.080 --> 0:01:02.880 I'm sure. 0:01:03.120 --> 0:01:06.679 I mean, I don't get it seems like horrendous to me. 0:01:07.080 --> 0:01:09.000 To me, it seems great, just because I spend so 0:01:09.040 --> 0:01:11.399 much time driving anyway, I listen to the radio a lot, 0:01:12.640 --> 0:01:14.840 So Alie, I want to first before we get into cars. 0:01:14.880 --> 0:01:17.000 Obviously it's a cars podcast. Hannah and I talk about 0:01:17.120 --> 0:01:19.200 cars all the time, and it's it's not a business 0:01:19.200 --> 0:01:22.840 related thing. It's just like what we love, you know, 0:01:22.880 --> 0:01:27.000 the passion for the industry and the hobby. Really, but 0:01:27.480 --> 0:01:31.039 I think your business story is just so fascinating that 0:01:31.120 --> 0:01:34.160 people would like to hear about what you've come up with. 0:01:34.200 --> 0:01:36.560 And then we'll get into your history with Tesla and everything. 0:01:36.560 --> 0:01:37.880 But yeah, tell us. 0:01:37.880 --> 0:01:42.319 About the range energy trailers and all of the things 0:01:42.319 --> 0:01:46.640 that they can do beyond just extending the range of 0:01:46.680 --> 0:01:49.680 a diesel tractor or even a n EV tractor. 0:01:50.000 --> 0:01:54.600 Yeah. So the range story basically actually started way back 0:01:54.640 --> 0:01:56.480 in around two thousand and eight, two thousand and nine, 0:01:57.280 --> 0:01:58.960 when I was at Tesla and we were just kind 0:01:58.960 --> 0:02:02.360 of talking about all of these different that's a hint 0:02:02.360 --> 0:02:04.440 of how we met Hannah in the first time. The 0:02:04.480 --> 0:02:08.720 first time boy about just all of the different things 0:02:08.760 --> 0:02:11.200 that need to be true for electrification to kind of 0:02:11.919 --> 0:02:14.200 be all over the place. And supercharger networks were one 0:02:14.240 --> 0:02:16.960 of the ideas, and and uh, and this kind of 0:02:17.240 --> 0:02:19.560 thought of an electrified trailer to extend the range of 0:02:19.560 --> 0:02:21.880 one of our evs was just kind of bounced around 0:02:22.000 --> 0:02:24.360 and a couple of people even looked at it, and 0:02:24.400 --> 0:02:27.680 it just kind of died off. And as I started 0:02:27.680 --> 0:02:30.960 to kind of progress through my career, I came to 0:02:31.000 --> 0:02:33.400 this point to where I said, I went from Tesla 0:02:33.560 --> 0:02:36.840 to Google, then from Google to Zekes that then got 0:02:36.840 --> 0:02:42.400 acquired by Amazon. And after the acquisition at Amazon, I 0:02:42.400 --> 0:02:44.280 started to think, well, what else can I work on 0:02:44.320 --> 0:02:46.840 that I'll actually have a more near term impact on 0:02:46.840 --> 0:02:49.680 our environment than than what we're hoping to have with 0:02:49.960 --> 0:02:53.840 Level five or level four point five autonomy. And the 0:02:53.840 --> 0:02:57.360 commercial trucking industry kind of came up and and I 0:02:57.360 --> 0:02:59.600 started to look around and to see what the technology 0:03:00.200 --> 0:03:03.360 suite that was being developed for the trucking industry looked like, 0:03:03.600 --> 0:03:07.000 what would the effectiveness could be? And I noticed that. 0:03:07.600 --> 0:03:09.000 One thing was being left behind. 0:03:09.000 --> 0:03:12.400 It was the box, the trailer itself. And I'd been 0:03:12.480 --> 0:03:15.560 driving trucks and trailers literally since I was fourteen years old, 0:03:15.960 --> 0:03:19.239 you know, through my career in racing and in the 0:03:19.280 --> 0:03:22.200 automotive space, one thing that's always been there is been 0:03:22.240 --> 0:03:24.960 the trailer. And in all of these early days, I 0:03:25.040 --> 0:03:26.359 was the only one that knew how to drive a 0:03:26.400 --> 0:03:28.280 truck and a trailer. So I was always driving these 0:03:28.280 --> 0:03:31.400 things around. So I know about you know, overheating brakes, 0:03:31.440 --> 0:03:34.440 and I know about going up a hill when you're 0:03:34.440 --> 0:03:36.400 fully loaded. I know all of these kind of pain 0:03:36.480 --> 0:03:39.520 points that the drivers have, and so that was kind 0:03:39.560 --> 0:03:43.040 of this like aha moment for me was, well, nobody's 0:03:43.080 --> 0:03:46.280 developing an electric trailer. We're now at the point with 0:03:46.400 --> 0:03:51.880 things like our understanding of functional safety and other elements 0:03:51.960 --> 0:03:55.800 that are enabling the autonomous world to put robots out 0:03:55.800 --> 0:03:59.400 on the roads. Well, essentially, what we're building is a 0:03:59.520 --> 0:04:03.360 robot and the safety driver is the tractor, and we 0:04:03.400 --> 0:04:05.440 don't care if that tractor has a human driver in 0:04:05.480 --> 0:04:08.880 it or a robot driver. We just care to follow 0:04:08.920 --> 0:04:12.520 that tractor and make the trailer feel completely weightless. And 0:04:12.600 --> 0:04:14.840 so that's kind of that idea that sparked in twenty 0:04:14.880 --> 0:04:17.760 twenty one, and we spent the first year going through 0:04:17.800 --> 0:04:20.080 the technology to say is this real. We built a 0:04:20.080 --> 0:04:23.480 couple of small scale trailers to toe behind things like 0:04:23.560 --> 0:04:26.880 Rivian's and F one to fifties and it really worked. 0:04:26.920 --> 0:04:29.440 And so over the last couple of years we focused 0:04:29.480 --> 0:04:31.680 on the Class eight industry because we know the commercial 0:04:31.680 --> 0:04:34.640 space is really where this can have the biggest impact 0:04:34.720 --> 0:04:38.960 on our roadways, not only for efficiency and the environment, 0:04:39.040 --> 0:04:41.560 but also for safety as well, because we're adding a 0:04:41.600 --> 0:04:45.920 secondary braking system here with these trailers. The idea here 0:04:46.000 --> 0:04:47.960 is to help in every single way possible. 0:04:49.000 --> 0:04:51.160 And the traction I think is so cool because when 0:04:51.200 --> 0:04:53.800 you're going up a hill now you have essentially all 0:04:53.800 --> 0:04:57.400 wheel drive for an eighteen wheeler, that's right, And you've 0:04:57.440 --> 0:05:02.040 also managed to torque fill at a time when the 0:05:02.080 --> 0:05:04.280 torque is so important to the driver. Right when you're 0:05:04.320 --> 0:05:06.760 doing only twenty miles an hour and you're up a 0:05:06.839 --> 0:05:08.640 grade and shifting. 0:05:08.480 --> 0:05:11.320 It's a little scary, it's totally scary. I mean, if 0:05:11.360 --> 0:05:13.800 you're on a between a six and eight percent grade 0:05:13.800 --> 0:05:15.719 where there are plenty of those passes out there. The 0:05:15.760 --> 0:05:18.320 grape Vine is a six percent grade, and if you're 0:05:18.320 --> 0:05:20.799 fully loaded going up the grape Vine in southern California 0:05:20.880 --> 0:05:23.720 on I five, you're lucky if you can get above 0:05:23.760 --> 0:05:25.840 forty five miles an hour in a brand new big 0:05:25.839 --> 0:05:30.400 block tractor and your foot to the floor and you're 0:05:30.600 --> 0:05:33.280 hoping that you're not burning out the motor whatever. And 0:05:33.960 --> 0:05:36.359 what we did, we did the same we did that 0:05:36.360 --> 0:05:38.200 same route with our trailer off, and we did it 0:05:38.400 --> 0:05:40.720 with it on. And with the trailer on, we were 0:05:40.760 --> 0:05:44.359 able to maintain sixty percent throttle and climb that mountain 0:05:44.480 --> 0:05:46.240 at fifty five miles an hour. And then when we 0:05:46.279 --> 0:05:48.800 got to the backside of that mountain, we actually used 0:05:48.800 --> 0:05:51.279 the axle and region to hold the system at bay 0:05:51.320 --> 0:05:53.720 at fifty five miles an hour, didn't have to use 0:05:53.720 --> 0:05:55.960 the friction brakes at all. We didn't even have to 0:05:55.960 --> 0:05:58.320 think about runaway truck ramps, and the driver went all 0:05:58.320 --> 0:06:00.720 the way down the hill with their full breaking capacity 0:06:00.760 --> 0:06:02.080 in case somebody cuts them off. 0:06:03.120 --> 0:06:05.680 Can you just enlighten me a little bit about what 0:06:05.800 --> 0:06:11.880 exactly range energy provides. Are you you're selling electrical batteries 0:06:11.920 --> 0:06:17.040 that attach to diesel trucks. No, the actual service. 0:06:17.279 --> 0:06:19.760 If you think about the tractor and the trailer that's 0:06:20.200 --> 0:06:22.400 rolling on the highway, the tractor is the part that 0:06:22.440 --> 0:06:25.280 the driver sits in. It's the truck, the cab, many 0:06:25.320 --> 0:06:28.039 different names for it. The trailer is the box. And 0:06:28.080 --> 0:06:30.040 what we're doing is we're one hundred percent focused on 0:06:30.160 --> 0:06:34.320 the box itself. We add an e axle replacing one 0:06:34.320 --> 0:06:37.200 of the passive axles in that trailer, and then we 0:06:37.279 --> 0:06:40.320 clip a battery pack underneath the box, and then we 0:06:40.360 --> 0:06:43.560 have an intelligent drive system that looks at the interactive 0:06:43.640 --> 0:06:46.680 forces in real time between the tractor and the trailer, 0:06:47.360 --> 0:06:50.680 and then like and then it makes real time decisions 0:06:50.720 --> 0:06:54.000 on how much assists to provide either in propulsion or 0:06:54.000 --> 0:06:57.839 in regent to make the trailer feel weightless to the tractor. 0:06:59.000 --> 0:07:01.560 And we do this without any can connection. We don't 0:07:01.560 --> 0:07:04.039 have any data connection in between the two. We use 0:07:04.120 --> 0:07:07.360 all legacy connections that allows us to hook this up 0:07:07.400 --> 0:07:09.840 to an old Peter built long Hood or a brand 0:07:09.880 --> 0:07:13.680 new Tesla Semi, and we're getting efficiency numbers like going 0:07:13.680 --> 0:07:15.960 from six to eight miles per gallon up to fifteen 0:07:16.160 --> 0:07:18.920 plus miles per gallon on an old diesel or a 0:07:18.960 --> 0:07:23.120 new diesel. And we're almost doubling the range on the 0:07:23.160 --> 0:07:26.560 Tesla Semis and the electric semis that are coming out 0:07:27.640 --> 0:07:30.320 and really helping expand the utility of the tractors that 0:07:30.360 --> 0:07:31.520 are already out there as well. 0:07:32.480 --> 0:07:34.960 So how do you, guys sell, I mean, do you 0:07:35.000 --> 0:07:39.720 approach individual private drivers, do approach fleets? What's the business 0:07:39.880 --> 0:07:40.400 side of that? 0:07:40.400 --> 0:07:41.160 It's a great question. 0:07:41.280 --> 0:07:44.640 Yeah, we approach the fleets, and we talked to the 0:07:44.640 --> 0:07:48.080 fleets and you know, small and large fleets. This could 0:07:48.080 --> 0:07:50.160 be the Walmarts and Amazons of the world, or this 0:07:50.240 --> 0:07:52.840 could be like our current customer, Pedaluma Farms, which is 0:07:52.920 --> 0:07:58.280 a local northern California egg farm, and we provide trailers 0:07:58.280 --> 0:08:02.480 to them, and our system can be installed on a 0:08:02.480 --> 0:08:05.280 Great Dane trailer or Wabash trailer, any of the brands. 0:08:06.840 --> 0:08:11.600 And what we're doing is essentially creating a smart electric 0:08:11.720 --> 0:08:14.880 trailer out of whatever form factor you already use. And 0:08:15.440 --> 0:08:18.640 one of our biggest current form factors is the refrigerated trailer, 0:08:19.160 --> 0:08:23.640 because we are the only solution that can continuously sustain 0:08:23.760 --> 0:08:29.160 the refrigeration unit while providing drive, and we are currently 0:08:29.160 --> 0:08:31.280 the only path. You know, Thermo King just signed with 0:08:31.360 --> 0:08:33.840 us a big contract and we are currently the only 0:08:33.880 --> 0:08:37.880 path that gets them to pure electrification with the refrigeration units. 0:08:37.880 --> 0:08:40.480 And don't forget those refrigeration units. It's kind of like 0:08:40.559 --> 0:08:42.520 this like thing that gets scabbed to the front of 0:08:42.520 --> 0:08:45.719 a trailer. If you look close, it's only about a 0:08:45.800 --> 0:08:49.040 third the refrigeration. The bottom two thirds is a diesel 0:08:49.040 --> 0:08:51.640 engine burning about two gallons an hour just sitting there. 0:08:51.720 --> 0:08:55.640 Keeping the box cold and so, and it's making noise. 0:08:55.679 --> 0:08:57.839 So you can't even do your food deliveries at night 0:08:57.880 --> 0:09:00.319 in cities because of the noise. So we kind of 0:09:00.360 --> 0:09:03.120 fix a lot of those problems with the power platform 0:09:03.120 --> 0:09:04.240 that we build into the trailer. 0:09:04.360 --> 0:09:06.920 This is why I think it's such a cool company 0:09:06.920 --> 0:09:10.480 because when you when I heard about it first, when 0:09:10.520 --> 0:09:14.760 Ali was testing the Ionic five N with a bunch 0:09:14.760 --> 0:09:18.400 of Moto journalists, I just thought, Okay, it's a range extender, 0:09:18.440 --> 0:09:20.160 and range is in the name of the company, but 0:09:20.280 --> 0:09:25.360 actually it provides extra traction torque fill when you're changing gears. 0:09:25.520 --> 0:09:29.600 Plus you can power whatever the trailer is doing, for example, 0:09:29.600 --> 0:09:31.680 the refrigerator trailer instead of burning diesel, you can do that. 0:09:31.679 --> 0:09:33.360 So I thought that was very cool. By the way, 0:09:33.760 --> 0:09:35.800 you started out at Tesla, which I learned about you 0:09:35.840 --> 0:09:37.800 back then as well, and I know that you worked 0:09:37.800 --> 0:09:41.640 closely with Elon and developing a number of their early 0:09:41.720 --> 0:09:44.440 early models, from the Roadster to I think the Model ass. 0:09:44.480 --> 0:09:47.079 And but how did you meet Hannah because. 0:09:46.840 --> 0:09:49.760 All right, so the story goes, so Hannah and I 0:09:49.880 --> 0:09:52.920 kind of I know Magnus. I'm not friends with him, 0:09:52.920 --> 0:09:54.640 but we kind of run in the same circles, and 0:09:54.679 --> 0:09:57.240 we've kind of met each other a few times, and 0:09:57.440 --> 0:09:59.320 you and I have met like in passing at like 0:09:59.360 --> 0:10:00.640 Pebble Beach and things like that. 0:10:00.720 --> 0:10:01.840 But where we first. 0:10:01.720 --> 0:10:05.199 Met was actually at Classic Car Club here in Manhattan 0:10:05.720 --> 0:10:07.920 when you came to see the Model US for the 0:10:07.960 --> 0:10:11.120 first time. I was the handler for Elon. I was 0:10:11.240 --> 0:10:14.520 the engineer and I was sitting in the backseat while 0:10:14.520 --> 0:10:16.960 you and Elon and the video and the camera guy. 0:10:17.040 --> 0:10:17.319 Wow. 0:10:17.679 --> 0:10:18.840 So that was the first time. 0:10:19.320 --> 0:10:22.040 What year was that? Was that like two thousand and eight. 0:10:22.559 --> 0:10:24.400 Nine ten timeframe? 0:10:25.720 --> 0:10:27.520 You know what? That is wild? 0:10:27.640 --> 0:10:31.360 And I remember that, you know, I remember that because 0:10:32.080 --> 0:10:37.320 that day Elon was talking about cars being computers. Yeah, 0:10:37.880 --> 0:10:40.560 and it was the first time I had ever heard 0:10:40.600 --> 0:10:44.280 that idea, and it was just kind of weird. 0:10:44.559 --> 0:10:46.760 It was. It was like a very It was a 0:10:46.840 --> 0:10:48.080 new thing, you know. 0:10:48.160 --> 0:10:50.120 He was trying to explain how it's going to be 0:10:50.160 --> 0:10:53.880 seamless from your phone to your car to maybe your house, 0:10:53.960 --> 0:10:56.760 and like a car could be a computer of a type. 0:10:57.440 --> 0:11:00.000 It was just so radical. 0:11:00.240 --> 0:11:00.880 It was crazy. 0:11:00.920 --> 0:11:03.400 Because you know, one of the cool things about that 0:11:03.559 --> 0:11:06.240 is that most people don't know Elon knew. I knew 0:11:06.640 --> 0:11:08.960 that night actually, so all of the infotainment in that 0:11:09.000 --> 0:11:12.920 first car was run on Mac Mini's and and so 0:11:13.000 --> 0:11:15.920 then you imagine the connectivity from your Macmini to things 0:11:15.960 --> 0:11:18.679 like your iPhone and or your your phone and your 0:11:18.760 --> 0:11:20.679 laptop and all of that stuff. And that's where that 0:11:20.800 --> 0:11:23.320 thinking started to come, where where this should be a 0:11:23.320 --> 0:11:27.600 completely seamless experience and don't forget, like whatever we say 0:11:27.600 --> 0:11:31.160 about Elon, and especially in the context with Franz and 0:11:31.400 --> 0:11:35.760 other designers that he works with, the obsession is the experience. 0:11:35.840 --> 0:11:38.960 It's not about some specific piece of technology. And so 0:11:39.040 --> 0:11:42.000 that's when that's that exposure was that you know what 0:11:42.520 --> 0:11:45.000 we can we can actually really see a connection here 0:11:45.080 --> 0:11:47.440 if we start using the right platforms for some of 0:11:47.440 --> 0:11:50.480 these things. And that's that thinking kind of bloomed from. 0:11:50.320 --> 0:11:55.400 There philosophically, like thinking back to those early early days 0:11:56.200 --> 0:12:01.000 to now, would you ever have expected the path of 0:12:01.120 --> 0:12:02.000 evs to. 0:12:02.040 --> 0:12:03.720 Go that it has gone? 0:12:04.080 --> 0:12:09.480 And what is your what is your outlook on where 0:12:09.480 --> 0:12:12.880 we are now with electric vehicles compared to what you 0:12:12.920 --> 0:12:13.440 thought it was? 0:12:13.480 --> 0:12:18.160 Then that's a great question. I thought we would be 0:12:18.480 --> 0:12:22.679 where we are today in twenty twenty, so about five 0:12:22.760 --> 0:12:25.599 years behind where I originally thought we would be. I 0:12:25.640 --> 0:12:28.840 think there's a couple of things here. I think, you know, Hannah, 0:12:28.920 --> 0:12:31.360 you see this. You guys see this as well as 0:12:31.400 --> 0:12:36.000 anybody else. There was this phase of you know, kind 0:12:36.040 --> 0:12:41.440 of copycatting Tesla from everybody from Mercedes to not so 0:12:41.559 --> 0:12:45.160 much Toyota, but even Toyota fanboid on Tesla with the 0:12:45.240 --> 0:12:49.040 Raft four EV project, right, And so there was this 0:12:49.160 --> 0:12:53.520 first phase that I thought was gonna you know, like 0:12:53.600 --> 0:12:57.440 I didn't think Diamond or BMW or Volkswagen Group would 0:12:57.480 --> 0:13:00.360 fall into that trap of like me too, copycat, but 0:13:00.440 --> 0:13:03.120 we all see it, and they're still struggling with infotainment 0:13:03.640 --> 0:13:09.600 like today with all of this stuff, and that set 0:13:09.720 --> 0:13:13.080 the entire industry back at least five years instead of 0:13:13.120 --> 0:13:16.000 focusing on what they can what they did really really well, 0:13:16.520 --> 0:13:19.320 and then just layer the technology in piece by piece, 0:13:20.080 --> 0:13:23.160 and so anyways where we are today. I also thought 0:13:23.760 --> 0:13:27.199 that Tesla wouldn't be the only and primary charging network 0:13:27.200 --> 0:13:30.200 out there. We knew when we were looking at the 0:13:30.240 --> 0:13:33.280 seventeen seventy two connector back then that it was not 0:13:33.400 --> 0:13:35.880 being utilized to its full potential and it was actually 0:13:35.960 --> 0:13:39.080 under engineered for what we would need today. And so 0:13:39.120 --> 0:13:42.079 we actually predicted that there would be some shift back 0:13:42.120 --> 0:13:45.240 away from seventeen seventy two. I also thought that was 0:13:45.280 --> 0:13:48.439 going to happen a long time ago. But you know, 0:13:48.520 --> 0:13:52.560 the biggest surprise to me is the lack of charging 0:13:52.600 --> 0:13:55.520 network from other people that actually works as nearly as 0:13:55.559 --> 0:13:56.720 well as the Tesla network. 0:13:57.920 --> 0:13:59.240 So why hasn't that happened? 0:14:02.280 --> 0:14:05.320 Frankly, I think we don't have enough uh And I 0:14:05.360 --> 0:14:06.760 hate to say this, but I don't think we have 0:14:06.960 --> 0:14:11.440 enough unity in the regulation space. And I think there's 0:14:11.440 --> 0:14:14.839 a lot of different philosophies and thought processes, and no 0:14:15.640 --> 0:14:17.800 regulator wants to put their foot down and say this 0:14:17.840 --> 0:14:19.240 is how it should be done, and this is how 0:14:19.240 --> 0:14:22.200 we're going to ensure again the experience. It comes down 0:14:22.240 --> 0:14:24.880 to the charging experience. Like we have a mutual friend 0:14:24.920 --> 0:14:29.680 Alex roy right, and he talks about it's the experience. Yeah, 0:14:29.760 --> 0:14:33.080 And so it really comes down to that experience, and 0:14:33.120 --> 0:14:37.280 nobody that's building a charging network that's not Tesla prioritize 0:14:37.320 --> 0:14:41.640 the experience above everything else, other than maybe Rivian Rivin 0:14:41.720 --> 0:14:42.240 is actually doing it. 0:14:42.320 --> 0:14:44.520 You have to also acknowledge that there aren't many people 0:14:45.360 --> 0:14:48.600 who are willing to do what most people think can't 0:14:48.600 --> 0:14:51.880 be done. And I know that Elon Musk is a 0:14:51.880 --> 0:14:57.160 controversial virtial figure, but I remember driving the first roadster 0:14:58.360 --> 0:15:00.960 with Jason Harper. We drove up to Bear Mountain and 0:15:01.000 --> 0:15:04.080 almost you know, ran out of juice on the way back. 0:15:04.120 --> 0:15:07.400 But it was still at that time, Tesla stock was 0:15:07.440 --> 0:15:09.520 like ten dollars and everybody was like, this guy's crazy. 0:15:09.560 --> 0:15:11.440 He's going to take on GM and Ford like in 0:15:11.480 --> 0:15:15.360 your dreams, dude, never gonna happen. Yeah, And obviously the 0:15:15.400 --> 0:15:18.080 same thing when it came to rockets. You know, he's 0:15:18.080 --> 0:15:20.880 gonna take on NASA and Boeing. You gotta be kidding me. 0:15:22.000 --> 0:15:24.440 And now he's gonna cut two trillion dollars out of 0:15:24.480 --> 0:15:26.800 the budget. Now I realize that hasn't happened yet, right, 0:15:27.680 --> 0:15:29.960 And I know it's very controversial, but I'm just saying 0:15:30.200 --> 0:15:32.520 there's not many people in the auto industry who were like, 0:15:32.520 --> 0:15:34.800 screw it, I'm just gonna do this. I'm gonna go 0:15:34.840 --> 0:15:38.800 build a supercharger network, even if it sounds expensive and unbelievable, 0:15:39.120 --> 0:15:41.680 legally difficult, you know, from the real estate aspect to 0:15:42.720 --> 0:15:44.160 the investment, Like he just did it. 0:15:44.320 --> 0:15:46.560 Yeah, I think it's it takes a few things. First 0:15:46.560 --> 0:15:48.960 of all, you have to have like an obsessive first 0:15:48.960 --> 0:15:52.200 principle's view on life, like everything. It really has to 0:15:52.200 --> 0:15:54.640 be like, well, we can't do this. Why can't we 0:15:54.680 --> 0:15:57.480 do this because the material science doesn't allow it? Why 0:15:57.520 --> 0:15:59.760 not can we go talk to some universities to change 0:15:59.760 --> 0:16:02.440 what the thermal conductivity of this material is to help 0:16:02.480 --> 0:16:06.280 with you know, more current through these IGBTs for example. 0:16:06.400 --> 0:16:08.360 Whatever it is like, there's a bunch of different things 0:16:08.400 --> 0:16:11.320 where he would never stop until it got to a 0:16:11.320 --> 0:16:14.920 physics limit. And he had the guts to do it. 0:16:15.120 --> 0:16:17.280 Obviously he had the funding and the money and the 0:16:17.320 --> 0:16:19.240 backing to do it. That's a big piece of where 0:16:19.280 --> 0:16:21.560 you get those guts to do it. But he just 0:16:21.640 --> 0:16:24.240 never lets off the throttle when it comes down to why. 0:16:24.440 --> 0:16:25.840 By the way, this is one of the things that 0:16:25.880 --> 0:16:27.760 made me initially think we got to get Ali on 0:16:27.800 --> 0:16:31.000 the show because you're you are that scientist, right, you 0:16:31.040 --> 0:16:34.640 don't tell people a lot, but you went to mit right, 0:16:34.800 --> 0:16:37.520 And at the same time you're like a race monkey. 0:16:37.840 --> 0:16:38.800 You're like a race car guy. 0:16:38.880 --> 0:16:39.080 Yeah. 0:16:39.120 --> 0:16:43.000 Yeah, So I think that, uh, you know, that dichotomy 0:16:43.080 --> 0:16:45.880 is so cool. And the roadster that I drove I 0:16:45.920 --> 0:16:48.480 know at the time, I thought, oh cool, it's a Lotus, 0:16:48.560 --> 0:16:51.560 you know. Yeah, And actually when you finished, when you 0:16:51.680 --> 0:16:54.280 finished engineering on that, it went back to Lotus and 0:16:54.280 --> 0:16:56.400 then they adapted your technique. 0:16:56.560 --> 0:16:56.760 Yeah. 0:16:56.760 --> 0:16:58.840 I think one of my first interactions at Tesla was 0:16:58.880 --> 0:17:02.360 actually as a contractor because there was something really funny, Hannah. 0:17:02.400 --> 0:17:04.959 You remember the red roadster they had was like the 0:17:05.000 --> 0:17:07.360 first prototype that they let the media look at. 0:17:08.240 --> 0:17:13.080 Yes, and I drove with Elon in that in La. 0:17:13.400 --> 0:17:13.640 Yeah. 0:17:13.680 --> 0:17:16.119 Do you remember how agro that suspension felt. It was 0:17:16.160 --> 0:17:19.199 like choppy and all of that. So my first job 0:17:19.440 --> 0:17:22.000 was to get that vehicle ready for the second round 0:17:22.040 --> 0:17:24.560 of media tune the suspension, and that was as a 0:17:24.560 --> 0:17:28.400 contracting position, and so I went through, I revalve the dampers, 0:17:28.440 --> 0:17:30.840 I changed a few little tiny things in the geometry, 0:17:31.440 --> 0:17:36.720 and that ended up becoming roadster sport suspension baseline and 0:17:36.920 --> 0:17:38.520 so then that and then they were like, well, who 0:17:38.520 --> 0:17:41.040 did Roadster, who did this? Who fixed this problem? Let's 0:17:41.080 --> 0:17:43.800 hire them instead of having them on contract. And that's 0:17:43.840 --> 0:17:44.720 that was my end to. 0:17:44.760 --> 0:17:49.560 Tesla, speaking of how much you got like Tesla was 0:17:49.600 --> 0:17:51.840 considered an underdog at the time, I was working for 0:17:51.840 --> 0:17:55.240 Forbes and we really had to fight to even cover 0:17:55.800 --> 0:17:59.600 Elon and this little startup in California called Tesla. I mean, 0:17:59.600 --> 0:18:03.320 it was a fight to convince editors to even cover it, 0:18:03.720 --> 0:18:05.679 and eventually we kind of got around to it and 0:18:05.720 --> 0:18:09.040 I ended up writing a cover story on Elon. But 0:18:09.600 --> 0:18:14.040 I'm curious, like, is the person that you worked for 0:18:14.240 --> 0:18:18.800 then the same person that we see in the news now. 0:18:21.640 --> 0:18:24.879 It's hard to say, Like, you know, I didn't. My 0:18:25.000 --> 0:18:28.119 interactions with Elon were very kind of mechanical. We didn't 0:18:28.320 --> 0:18:31.240 really spend a bunch of time with each other. It 0:18:31.320 --> 0:18:33.320 was always kind of in meetings and in just hallways 0:18:33.320 --> 0:18:35.240 about talking about different types of things. 0:18:35.760 --> 0:18:36.840 I still see. 0:18:36.600 --> 0:18:39.439 That Elon there, and I imagine that a lot of 0:18:39.440 --> 0:18:41.360 that is still there day to day in the office. 0:18:42.640 --> 0:18:44.840 Beyond that, you know, I don't know, I you know, 0:18:44.880 --> 0:18:48.919 it's it's he didn't have such a public presence that 0:18:48.960 --> 0:18:51.640 he does now back then, so it may have. 0:18:51.600 --> 0:18:53.520 Been back then. 0:18:53.760 --> 0:18:56.520 Yeah, I mean they were there were, Yeah, we would 0:18:56.680 --> 0:18:58.480 when we were building. You came to the tent in 0:18:58.520 --> 0:19:00.520 the back of SpaceX when we were doing Model Less too, 0:19:00.560 --> 0:19:02.800 I think, and when we were in that tent, it 0:19:02.840 --> 0:19:06.600 was just random people coming by, like Elon was just 0:19:06.640 --> 0:19:09.440 like two or three. We're working literally twenty four hours 0:19:09.480 --> 0:19:12.040 a day, sleeping in cots in the corner of SpaceX 0:19:12.040 --> 0:19:15.080 to build the first models, which is in the Peterson now. 0:19:16.560 --> 0:19:19.040 But we would just be like three in the morning, Uh, hey, 0:19:19.160 --> 0:19:22.800 Jon Favreau is coming to scout the spot for Iron Man, 0:19:23.240 --> 0:19:26.520 like okay, and it's just Elon and John just walking through. 0:19:26.520 --> 0:19:28.960 So there was a lot of these like crazy crazy 0:19:29.000 --> 0:19:31.560 times back then where was his guard was down. He 0:19:31.680 --> 0:19:34.399 was just really about having fun and showing off that 0:19:34.440 --> 0:19:35.160 he was having fun. 0:19:42.880 --> 0:19:44.760 All right, let's talk about the cars that you like 0:19:44.880 --> 0:19:48.240 and drive. And you mentioned that you sometimes would drive 0:19:48.280 --> 0:19:50.840 the truck around because you're towing race cars, and I 0:19:50.920 --> 0:19:52.639 know that you spent a lot of time on the 0:19:52.640 --> 0:19:56.280 track beyond the Ionic five n Yeah. Yeah, what how 0:19:56.280 --> 0:19:57.960 did you get started in that? I mean, was it 0:19:58.119 --> 0:20:02.520 just the suspension, the you know, the technology that got 0:20:02.520 --> 0:20:03.920 you interested or what was it. 0:20:04.000 --> 0:20:06.240 I was always obsessed with cars, like since I was 0:20:06.280 --> 0:20:08.000 a little kid and I found my first little pile 0:20:08.040 --> 0:20:10.040 of hot wheels in a dumpster, I was like, yes, 0:20:10.440 --> 0:20:12.680 I was so happy. Because we were an immigrant family, 0:20:12.720 --> 0:20:14.640 we didn't have any money to buy stuff like that, 0:20:15.320 --> 0:20:17.960