WEBVTT - What Facebook and Twitter Did After Jan. 6, 2021 0:00:01.800 --> 0:00:04.440 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm 0:00:04.480 --> 0:00:07.320 Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stanovk. We're here every day bringing 0:00:07.320 --> 0:00:09.840 you the latest news from the world to business and finance, 0:00:09.840 --> 0:00:13.640 plus technology, politics, economics, all partnising the power of Business 0:00:13.680 --> 0:00:17.160 Week reporters and editors, not to mention our journalists and 0:00:17.160 --> 0:00:19.640 analyst in more than one and twenty countries. You can 0:00:19.640 --> 0:00:23.239 download Bloomberg Business Week and iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot Com. 0:00:23.400 --> 0:00:25.200 You can also listen to our radio show at two 0:00:25.200 --> 0:00:27.880 pm Eastern Time on Bloomberg Radio, or watch us on 0:00:27.920 --> 0:00:31.960 YouTube search Bloomberg Global News. So, as we mentioned earlier 0:00:31.960 --> 0:00:34.199 one year ago, today the US capital is breached by 0:00:34.200 --> 0:00:38.159 supporters of Donald Trump, storming the capital, transforming the global 0:00:38.159 --> 0:00:41.680 conversation around democracy in America. Today, the US is more 0:00:41.760 --> 0:00:44.560 divided than ever and a factor in that division, Tim, 0:00:44.760 --> 0:00:46.320 I think it's safe to say the rise of social 0:00:46.360 --> 0:00:49.040 media and the dominant players in that space. We're talking 0:00:49.040 --> 0:00:52.200 about Facebook and Twitter. Yeah, no question about that, Carol 0:00:52.280 --> 0:00:54.760 Naomi Nicks to social media reporter for Bloomberg new She 0:00:54.800 --> 0:00:57.680 joins us on the phone from our New York City bureau. 0:00:57.720 --> 0:01:00.920 Naomi um As we think back to what happened a 0:01:01.000 --> 0:01:03.440 year ago, and more to what happened in the wake 0:01:03.520 --> 0:01:06.000 of a year ago, and I'm talking about Facebook and Twitter, 0:01:06.520 --> 0:01:09.800 uh kicking Trump off of its platforms. How should we 0:01:09.800 --> 0:01:13.560 think about the role that social media companies have taken 0:01:13.600 --> 0:01:16.320 since then, Like, is it changed at all when it 0:01:16.360 --> 0:01:19.600 comes to trying to police their platforms? Well, I think 0:01:19.640 --> 0:01:22.240 in one significant way it has changed, right, and that 0:01:22.360 --> 0:01:25.959 is what you just mentioned, Um, that Facebook, Twitter, and 0:01:26.160 --> 0:01:30.000 YouTube actually and others made moves to kick Trump off 0:01:30.080 --> 0:01:33.520 their platforms. It was one of the most aggressive actions 0:01:33.600 --> 0:01:38.960 today on political leader and a government, um for violating 0:01:39.000 --> 0:01:43.039 their content rules. And you know that that is that 0:01:43.200 --> 0:01:47.039 is a notable because social media companies have traditionally shied 0:01:47.040 --> 0:01:51.880 away from trying to be the arbiters of truth. They 0:01:51.960 --> 0:01:54.880 like to have a hands off approach on political content. 0:01:55.640 --> 0:01:59.040 Having said that, there are other ways in which um, 0:01:59.080 --> 0:02:00.960 you know these they're a lot of risks that are 0:02:01.000 --> 0:02:06.560 still remain So social media companies are still um spreading 0:02:06.600 --> 0:02:12.400 content that uh roads trust in the democratic process. There 0:02:12.480 --> 0:02:16.000 is still misinformation about what happened in some of these 0:02:16.000 --> 0:02:20.120 social media platforms, and they still sort of have these 0:02:20.160 --> 0:02:25.280 struggles to balance growing their social networks with taking a 0:02:25.320 --> 0:02:28.239 more proactive approach. I can some of this contract, I 0:02:28.240 --> 0:02:30.680 have to say, Naomi, a line in your story. Um. 0:02:30.720 --> 0:02:32.960 A year later, social media companies still don't appear to 0:02:32.960 --> 0:02:35.040 have figured out how to put out these kinds of fire. 0:02:35.160 --> 0:02:37.120 So it says to me, the role of social media 0:02:37.160 --> 0:02:40.880 in igniting another round of fires, political or other, it 0:02:40.919 --> 0:02:44.400 could still happen. It could right So right now we have, 0:02:44.800 --> 0:02:50.040 particularly on the right, a continued drumbeat about, um, you know, 0:02:50.120 --> 0:02:54.720 whether they're the elect the electoral process is fair, whether 0:02:54.760 --> 0:02:58.280 there's widespread fraud. We still have misinformation spreading about that. 0:02:58.440 --> 0:03:00.600 So that's going to be a challenge for social media companies. 0:03:00.840 --> 0:03:05.360 And we're heading into mid term elections in which companies 0:03:05.400 --> 0:03:07.360 are going to have to be policing that kind of 0:03:07.400 --> 0:03:12.520 misinformation in small, hyperlocal races across the country, and that's 0:03:12.560 --> 0:03:16.840 going to be a challenge. What is hold for the 0:03:16.880 --> 0:03:19.880 former president and getting back on these platforms. Is he 0:03:19.919 --> 0:03:23.720 going to be able to get back onto Facebook, on Twitter, 0:03:23.960 --> 0:03:28.920 and on YouTube? So he's banned for two years on Facebook, 0:03:28.960 --> 0:03:33.000 he's permanently banned from Twitter, and so, um, you know 0:03:33.080 --> 0:03:37.160 that that's gonna be difficult for the mid terms. Um, 0:03:37.200 --> 0:03:40.840 but you know, we'll see what holds and whether he'll 0:03:41.000 --> 0:03:43.160 whether he runs again, and whether he'll be able to 0:03:43.200 --> 0:03:45.960 get some of his social media access back. But I 0:03:45.960 --> 0:03:48.400 think it's important to know that there are other political 0:03:48.520 --> 0:03:52.960 years following in his footsteps paddling this information about the election. 0:03:53.480 --> 0:03:57.520 And also, um, you know COVID nineteen. We saw Facebook 0:03:57.520 --> 0:04:02.559 and Twitter make moves early year this month to suspend 0:04:02.960 --> 0:04:09.520 Marjorie Green overspreading COVID miss info and so, uh, Trump 0:04:09.640 --> 0:04:11.400 might not be up for debate on these platforms, but 0:04:11.400 --> 0:04:14.320 there are other public segures who are right. And what's 0:04:14.320 --> 0:04:16.640 interesting my husband shared with my daughter and I um 0:04:17.080 --> 0:04:19.919 a political story today and the headline on is that 0:04:19.960 --> 0:04:22.320 they stormed the capital. Now they're running for office, and 0:04:22.360 --> 0:04:24.479 it talked about at least fifty seven individuals who played 0:04:24.480 --> 0:04:26.719 a role in the day's events, including someone who are 0:04:26.760 --> 0:04:29.480 arrested on charges related to the capital attack. Now we're 0:04:29.520 --> 0:04:33.200 running for office in two so politically will continue to 0:04:33.279 --> 0:04:36.280 feel their impact. When it comes to social media though, 0:04:36.320 --> 0:04:40.080 and Donald Trump specifically, he's developing his own media platforms. 0:04:40.080 --> 0:04:41.560 How do you think about that and how do you 0:04:42.400 --> 0:04:45.920 think that might factor in and how they might police 0:04:46.120 --> 0:04:50.680 maybe what they see is more liberal views. Yeah. Look, 0:04:50.760 --> 0:04:54.520 so there's definitely alternative social media platforms that Trump and 0:04:54.640 --> 0:04:59.960 other other folks who um feel they're being treated on fairly. Uh, 0:05:00.160 --> 0:05:02.479 the mainstream outlet's can falct to. You know, we saw 0:05:02.520 --> 0:05:06.760 that with Parwer and gab Um. I don't I think though, 0:05:06.800 --> 0:05:13.440 it's it's very much true that the mainstream players Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, um. 0:05:13.480 --> 0:05:17.839 You know, they have the dominant platform and these smaller 0:05:18.600 --> 0:05:20.520 these smaller platforms aren't going to be able to give 0:05:20.640 --> 0:05:24.480 people like Trump, uh the megaphone that they once had. Um. 0:05:24.600 --> 0:05:26.520 And we saw, you know, we saw some results. There 0:05:26.560 --> 0:05:28.800 was actually a study that the Washington Post covered from 0:05:28.880 --> 0:05:32.520 Signal Labs, you know, that show documented how some of 0:05:32.560 --> 0:05:36.000 the misinformation around the election declined in the wake of 0:05:36.040 --> 0:05:41.520 Trump's de platform ng um. And so I think it's, um, 0:05:41.680 --> 0:05:43.640 it'll be difficult for for Trump to be able to 0:05:43.680 --> 0:05:48.200 match uh, that kind of reach with his own platform. 0:05:48.480 --> 0:05:49.960 He Now mean, before we let you go, and just 0:05:50.000 --> 0:05:51.640 in the last thirty seconds that we have with you, 0:05:51.720 --> 0:05:53.760 talk a little bit about what was happening at Facebook 0:05:53.760 --> 0:05:59.720 on January six. Yeah, I mean, look, Facebook took down 0:05:59.800 --> 0:06:03.080 one of the stop the steel groups. But what would 0:06:03.080 --> 0:06:04.520 happen is it was kind of a game of whack 0:06:04.520 --> 0:06:07.080 a mole. Another group would pop up and it would 0:06:07.240 --> 0:06:12.000 grow really, really rapidly, and the company struggled to address 0:06:12.720 --> 0:06:16.839 those ballooning pages and group who were spreading misinformation about 0:06:16.880 --> 0:06:21.839 the election. Interesting, uh, and social media, you know, continue 0:06:21.839 --> 0:06:24.240 to get caught in the cross you know, hairs of 0:06:24.240 --> 0:06:26.880 all of this. But I think about Tim, how much 0:06:27.360 --> 0:06:29.280 how many people get their news from there, and so 0:06:29.360 --> 0:06:31.520 you have to think about what's the responsibility of them 0:06:31.560 --> 0:06:34.040 in terms of the platforms? Are they platforms? Are the 0:06:34.160 --> 0:06:36.839 media companies? And also you know Twitter's new CEO, what 0:06:37.040 --> 0:06:39.560 role does is he play in managing that type of 0:06:39.560 --> 0:06:41.200 stuff on the platform? I think that still remains to 0:06:41.279 --> 0:06:43.280 be seen since he's been there well in the CEO 0:06:43.360 --> 0:06:45.480 position for such a short time. And traditional media is 0:06:45.480 --> 0:06:48.000 increasingly becoming social media as well, and yet there's a 0:06:48.040 --> 0:06:50.640 responsibility about what goes on those platforms. All right, you're 0:06:50.680 --> 0:06:53.600 listening to Bloomberg business Speak or thanks to naomenic social 0:06:53.600 --> 0:06:59.040 media reporter a Bloomberg News this is Bloomberg Business Week 0:06:59.200 --> 0:07:02.599 with Carol mass Sure and Bloomberg Quick Takes. Tim Stinovic 0:07:03.080 --> 0:07:06.400 on Bloomberg Radio. So billionaire in Virgin group founder Richard 0:07:06.400 --> 0:07:09.000 Branson and his wife among the latest report getting COVID. 0:07:09.400 --> 0:07:12.520 Branson have said to have a mild case. We are 0:07:12.560 --> 0:07:15.080 seeing uh shortage of at home tests and trying to 0:07:15.160 --> 0:07:17.440 deal with that as well. No joke. I do feel 0:07:17.440 --> 0:07:19.040 like I have more friends right now with COVID who 0:07:19.040 --> 0:07:21.600 are in isolation than those who aren't. Yeah, every time 0:07:21.640 --> 0:07:23.720 I get on the but we see it playing out 0:07:23.720 --> 0:07:25.800 in the data to all over the place. Hey, let's 0:07:25.800 --> 0:07:27.880 get to our daily round up when it comes to 0:07:28.200 --> 0:07:31.280 the pandemic and COVID headlines. Dr in LUs Better back 0:07:31.320 --> 0:07:33.840 with us, clinical professor of Medicine at n y U 0:07:33.960 --> 0:07:36.480 Land going on the phone in New York City, and 0:07:36.520 --> 0:07:38.840 we know that you are under the weather as well, 0:07:38.960 --> 0:07:41.160 so we wish you well. How are you doing? But 0:07:41.240 --> 0:07:43.320 you you don't have COVID corrector at least you haven't 0:07:43.320 --> 0:07:47.360 tested positive. Is that right right? No, no positive tests yet. 0:07:47.360 --> 0:07:51.440 I've had you energens negatives and a nasal swab negative 0:07:51.480 --> 0:07:54.800 for flu um my bed is. When I test later today, 0:07:54.800 --> 0:07:58.840 I would not be shocked if it's positive, basically exposed 0:07:58.840 --> 0:08:02.360 as we all are too. Men patients who are asymptomatic 0:08:02.520 --> 0:08:05.080 who have COVID, and that's really part of the reason 0:08:05.120 --> 0:08:08.720 it's spreading so much is because people can spread it 0:08:08.800 --> 0:08:11.200 before they have any symptoms. What are the symptoms that 0:08:11.240 --> 0:08:15.920 you have right now really primarily a laryngitis and classic 0:08:16.120 --> 0:08:21.720 upper respiratory symptoms nasal congestions, sore throat, mild cloth that's 0:08:21.720 --> 0:08:25.680 really the classic omicron symptoms UM as opposed to the 0:08:25.680 --> 0:08:30.160 original alpha variant, which was much more deadly, much more lethal, 0:08:30.520 --> 0:08:34.160 with really lower respiratory symptoms. So we're seeing this huge 0:08:34.160 --> 0:08:38.480 spike in cases. Slight increase in hospitalization is not dramatic 0:08:38.600 --> 0:08:42.080 yet the death rate fairly flat, so we see that 0:08:42.160 --> 0:08:46.319 this is very contagious kind of mild to moderate symptoms 0:08:46.840 --> 0:08:50.360 UM with no significant increase in deaths at this point. Hey, 0:08:50.400 --> 0:08:51.839 Dr les Mater, I just want to make sure I 0:08:51.840 --> 0:08:54.080 get this right. The two antigen tests that you took, 0:08:54.080 --> 0:08:57.280 those are also known as rapid tests, right, those tests correct, 0:08:57.280 --> 0:08:59.240 Those showed that you do not have COVID. And then 0:08:59.280 --> 0:09:01.240 the nasal SWABI took us for the flu. You've tested 0:09:01.240 --> 0:09:02.960 negative for the flu, but you haven't yet taken a 0:09:03.000 --> 0:09:06.480 PCR test for COVID no. The nasal swab was a 0:09:06.520 --> 0:09:09.600 PCR test and that was for UH. It's a double 0:09:09.679 --> 0:09:12.560 it's called the LEAT. It's a rapid test which we 0:09:12.640 --> 0:09:15.880 have available in some centers and the turnaround is amazing. 0:09:15.920 --> 0:09:18.679 It's like thirty minutes or less. And that tests for 0:09:18.760 --> 0:09:23.480 FLU and PCR for COVID nineteen and that didn't You 0:09:23.520 --> 0:09:26.600 said he didn't have it though, that's right, But all 0:09:26.640 --> 0:09:29.920 of these tests are not perfect. We see longlines. People 0:09:29.920 --> 0:09:34.240 are getting tested for no symptoms or mild exposure. So 0:09:34.320 --> 0:09:36.520 really there's UH. I don't want to say we're running 0:09:36.520 --> 0:09:39.400 out of tests, but there's a very big demand, and 0:09:39.600 --> 0:09:42.160 really we're not changing the way we treat people at 0:09:42.240 --> 0:09:45.960 this point. A very select group get monoclonal antibodies. The 0:09:46.000 --> 0:09:49.440 prior monoclonal antibodies UM have been shown not to be 0:09:49.520 --> 0:09:53.200 that effective, so we do have for elderly people or 0:09:53.240 --> 0:09:57.920 people with underlying significant disease COPD, etcetera. There is some 0:09:58.000 --> 0:10:02.760 monoclonal antibodies and of course PAxx lavit from fisser UH, 0:10:02.840 --> 0:10:06.079 the oral medications UM, but really a lot of this 0:10:06.160 --> 0:10:11.160 is just symptomatic stay home rest, fluid hydration UH and 0:10:11.280 --> 0:10:14.600 it seems to resolve within you know, six to ten days, 0:10:14.800 --> 0:10:21.120 and you are triple vaccinated. Correct, yes, triple vaccinated. But 0:10:21.240 --> 0:10:24.960 I know patients who have had COVID three vaccines that 0:10:25.000 --> 0:10:27.520 have still gotten O macron. So you know, we know 0:10:27.600 --> 0:10:31.679 there are thirty two mutations, uh, thirty plus in the 0:10:31.720 --> 0:10:36.360 spike protein. So really this is able to evade UM 0:10:36.440 --> 0:10:39.920 a lot of the prior vaccines, which are still alpha vaccines, right, 0:10:40.280 --> 0:10:43.840 So it's um been a number of variants, and you 0:10:43.880 --> 0:10:46.280 know this may become endemic. You know, there may be 0:10:46.400 --> 0:10:49.240 sort of a yearly seasonal COVID. We've talked about that, 0:10:49.720 --> 0:10:51.840 but we won't need to come up eventually with a 0:10:51.880 --> 0:10:56.680 more specific both treatment and probably prevention uh in order 0:10:56.720 --> 0:11:00.319 to prevent us from becoming more seasonal. But if this point, 0:11:00.440 --> 0:11:02.640 I think we're going to reach our peak in January. 0:11:03.000 --> 0:11:06.160 Probably by end of January, February will see cases drop, 0:11:06.679 --> 0:11:10.040 mainly because everyone will have been exposed and m will 0:11:10.080 --> 0:11:13.640 be some degree herd immunity at least for this round 0:11:13.640 --> 0:11:15.600 and for this variant. Tim and I were talking about 0:11:15.600 --> 0:11:18.120 that earlier. We keep overhearing from various individuals where we're 0:11:18.120 --> 0:11:19.760 all going to get this. We're all going to get this, 0:11:19.920 --> 0:11:22.480 and we certainly have heard it from the likes of 0:11:22.559 --> 0:11:26.040 you and others in the medical community. At the same time, 0:11:26.120 --> 0:11:29.040 it's hard not to still in, you know, after two 0:11:29.120 --> 0:11:32.360 years and counting of doing everything and anything to avoid 0:11:32.400 --> 0:11:34.120 at the thought of Okay, in the end, we're all 0:11:34.120 --> 0:11:36.960 going to get it. Having said that, Dr LUs Bader, 0:11:37.000 --> 0:11:38.840 and you are so gracious to come on with us 0:11:38.840 --> 0:11:40.880 because we can hear it in your voice, and we 0:11:40.880 --> 0:11:43.200 hope you're gonna get a lot of rest after after 0:11:43.240 --> 0:11:48.440 we finish our conversation. Is there still the possibility of 0:11:49.160 --> 0:11:52.360 another variant, and as you said, it's multiple mute mutations 0:11:52.559 --> 0:11:56.760 in an omicron. Should we anticipate that there will be 0:11:56.760 --> 0:11:59.679 another variant possibly after this that could be even more 0:11:59.679 --> 0:12:03.200 probably matic? Personally, I don't think so. I think this 0:12:03.760 --> 0:12:07.000 widespread herd immunity, at least in the US will keep 0:12:07.040 --> 0:12:10.160 most everyone safe. You know, the O macron did develop 0:12:10.640 --> 0:12:13.320 uh in South Africa, so it's a big world. There 0:12:13.360 --> 0:12:15.800 are eight billion people. You know, it's hard to say 0:12:15.880 --> 0:12:18.920 for sure there won't be a son of omecron, which 0:12:18.960 --> 0:12:22.520 is possible. This coast seems to be very you know, 0:12:22.640 --> 0:12:28.199 displacing the alpha and Delta's it's highly contagious, very efficient. Personally, 0:12:28.240 --> 0:12:30.640 I think O Macron will be kind of the end 0:12:30.679 --> 0:12:33.200 of the global pandemic. I think everyone will get it. 0:12:33.559 --> 0:12:36.720 Most people will do fine, will get answer bodies. I 0:12:36.760 --> 0:12:40.559 don't think there's gonna be another variant, but it's certainly possible. 0:12:41.080 --> 0:12:44.160 Uh and hopefully it will be um much milder, but 0:12:44.240 --> 0:12:47.760 we don't know for sure. Well, we're certainly sending you 0:12:47.800 --> 0:12:51.040 our best wishes. Dr LUs Bader. Really appreciate you taking 0:12:51.040 --> 0:12:52.720 the time on a day when we know you're under 0:12:52.720 --> 0:12:55.520 the weather to share with us not only your experience 0:12:55.559 --> 0:12:58.719 but your outlook for the next few months. Yeah, take care, 0:12:58.720 --> 0:13:01.600 get better soon, and definitely go rest and and our 0:13:01.600 --> 0:13:03.720 thoughts are with you. Dr Ian last bad Or, Clinical 0:13:03.720 --> 0:13:05.800 professor of Medicine at n hy U Land Going Medical 0:13:05.880 --> 0:13:08.080 Center on the phone in New York City, as he said, 0:13:08.080 --> 0:13:10.040 he's so far he hasn't tested positive for it. But 0:13:10.080 --> 0:13:11.559 you know this is the tricky part of testing. You 0:13:11.600 --> 0:13:13.000 and I talked about this. I want to send him 0:13:13.000 --> 0:13:15.440 some soup. I want to send him some sus sounds 0:13:15.480 --> 0:13:17.760 like heat, some soup. Yeah, I hope he takes some 0:13:17.840 --> 0:13:20.440 rest and just really takes care of himself. You know 0:13:20.520 --> 0:13:22.440 he is vaccinated, and from what we hear from a 0:13:22.440 --> 0:13:24.960 lot of folks that when you are that certainly can 0:13:25.000 --> 0:13:28.080 put you at a great advantage. You're listening to Bloomberg 0:13:28.120 --> 0:13:31.800 Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim 0:13:31.840 --> 0:13:35.800 Stinovich on Bloomberg Radio. The new issue of Bloomberg Business Week, 0:13:35.800 --> 0:13:38.559 by the way out on news stands. It's also online 0:13:38.600 --> 0:13:41.240 at business week dot com, excuse me, and also on 0:13:41.280 --> 0:13:44.359 the Bloomberg terminal. Now, as we continue to battle the pandemic, 0:13:44.400 --> 0:13:48.160 we similarly similarly excuse me, I can't speak. I'm ready 0:13:48.160 --> 0:13:51.080 for Friday. We also continue to tally up the cost 0:13:51.120 --> 0:13:54.120 of it around the globe and Tim Bloomberg Business Week 0:13:54.440 --> 0:13:58.000 really gets into it this week about the progress when 0:13:58.080 --> 0:14:00.960 it comes to women, especially in those developed countries. Let's 0:14:00.960 --> 0:14:04.600 get into it with Jill Filipovic, freelance writer for Bloomberg 0:14:04.600 --> 0:14:07.319 Business Week. She joins us on the phone from Brooklyn jail. 0:14:07.360 --> 0:14:10.480 For twenty five years, girls in developing countries have been 0:14:10.679 --> 0:14:15.360 on this remarkable trajectory of progress, but the pandemic is 0:14:15.840 --> 0:14:18.440 reversing that. What did what did you find at the 0:14:18.440 --> 0:14:22.880 girls Rescue House in Kenya. Yeah, thanks so much for 0:14:22.920 --> 0:14:25.920 having me on. So I reported this story UM from 0:14:26.000 --> 0:14:30.000 Kenya from various parts of the country, looking at how 0:14:30.360 --> 0:14:34.360 not just COVID the disease, but COVID related shutdowns have 0:14:34.680 --> 0:14:39.560 essentially reversed twenty five years of pretty steady progress for girls. 0:14:39.880 --> 0:14:41.920 You know, what we've seen over the past quarter century 0:14:42.000 --> 0:14:45.000 is that girls were largely on an upward trajectory. They 0:14:45.040 --> 0:14:47.720 were staying in school longer, they were getting married and 0:14:47.760 --> 0:14:52.760 having babies later. They were living healthier and more prosperous lives. 0:14:52.840 --> 0:14:55.640 And then when COVID hit, and when three and fifty 0:14:55.720 --> 0:14:58.800 million children around the world, um, you know, we're out 0:14:58.800 --> 0:15:02.480 of school, miss being their most consistent meal of the day, 0:15:02.720 --> 0:15:06.840 often stuck at home and abusive situation is Um, what 0:15:06.880 --> 0:15:08.840 we've seen is that a lot of that progress has 0:15:08.880 --> 0:15:12.240 been reversed. Even if schools are reopening, a lot of 0:15:12.280 --> 0:15:15.000 girls are not going back, some because their parents are 0:15:15.080 --> 0:15:19.160 unemployed and camp paid to school fees. Um. Some many 0:15:19.240 --> 0:15:22.680 because they have gotten pregnant during the pandemic. UM. So 0:15:22.800 --> 0:15:27.560 it's it's a huge and slow moving disaster, and lots 0:15:27.560 --> 0:15:29.880 of public health experts and folks who work in the 0:15:29.920 --> 0:15:34.120 development space are essentially saying that now is the moment 0:15:34.200 --> 0:15:36.120 that we can act on this, and then if we 0:15:36.200 --> 0:15:41.000 don't put measures in place to reverse uh, these really 0:15:41.360 --> 0:15:44.240 disastrous effects for girls, we're going to see the ripple 0:15:44.280 --> 0:15:47.720 effects not just for this generation, but for generations to come. Well, 0:15:47.760 --> 0:15:49.800 and you get into Jill, this is a story we 0:15:49.840 --> 0:15:52.320 talked about with Bloomberg Business. We get our Joel Webber 0:15:52.400 --> 0:15:55.680 for our Bloomberg Business Week weekend show, which airs on 0:15:55.720 --> 0:15:58.240 the weekend on Bloomberg Radio and it's also on and 0:15:58.240 --> 0:16:01.120 on our podcast feed. But what's interesting is that you know, 0:16:02.440 --> 0:16:04.120 the pandemic has been going on for a couple of years, 0:16:04.120 --> 0:16:06.880 and you point out in your story that there's some 0:16:06.920 --> 0:16:11.600 really significant numbers already showing what has happened according to 0:16:11.640 --> 0:16:14.080 AID groups. You write, teen pregnancy rates and some Kenyan 0:16:14.120 --> 0:16:16.880 countries tripled in the first few months of the pandemic. 0:16:16.920 --> 0:16:20.280 Early numbers indicating the adolescent maternal deaths and still births 0:16:20.440 --> 0:16:23.120 increased during that same period. You know, very easy for 0:16:23.160 --> 0:16:26.360 us in the developed world to to maybe not think 0:16:26.520 --> 0:16:30.840 so much about teenage pregnancy or potentially losing your life 0:16:30.880 --> 0:16:35.640 from a pregnancy, because we don't have the problems on 0:16:35.720 --> 0:16:39.480 the same scale that the developing world it has UH 0:16:39.560 --> 0:16:42.080 and and they really continue to have to deal with that, 0:16:42.160 --> 0:16:46.360 and it really can set women back in a big way, right. 0:16:46.400 --> 0:16:48.560 And I think one thing to keep in mind is 0:16:48.600 --> 0:16:51.040 that when we talk about investing in women and girls, 0:16:51.520 --> 0:16:55.040 that's a really high yield investment. UM. We're not just 0:16:55.200 --> 0:16:57.600 investing in individuals. When you invest in a girl and 0:16:57.640 --> 0:17:01.120 a woman, you invested an entire community. We know that 0:17:01.360 --> 0:17:05.199 girls to delay marriage and delay child bearing go on 0:17:05.359 --> 0:17:08.320 to have healthier children. We know that educated women are 0:17:08.359 --> 0:17:12.040 more likely to raise children who are able to pursue 0:17:12.200 --> 0:17:15.920 education themselves. We know that women who have higher levels 0:17:15.920 --> 0:17:19.320 of education and can plan their families are less likely 0:17:19.359 --> 0:17:22.000 to be stuck in abusive relationships. They're less likely to 0:17:22.040 --> 0:17:24.320 die in child of birth, and their children are less 0:17:24.320 --> 0:17:26.919 likely to die at young ages. And so you have 0:17:27.080 --> 0:17:30.520 all of these downstream ripple effects UH, and they can 0:17:30.560 --> 0:17:34.240 be positive repo effects if we invest in girls. The 0:17:34.359 --> 0:17:38.159 problem with what we're seeing with COVID's impact on girls 0:17:38.160 --> 0:17:41.600 and the impact of COVID shutdowns UH is that many 0:17:41.640 --> 0:17:44.840 of these positive impacts have been walked back, and we're 0:17:44.840 --> 0:17:48.080 seeing girls start to have babies earlier, get married earlier 0:17:48.240 --> 0:17:52.480 undergoes things like female genital cutting UM, and that impacts 0:17:52.480 --> 0:17:57.840 obviously the opportunities for these girls right now, but also 0:17:58.000 --> 0:18:01.200 for their children, and for the entirety of their communities, 0:18:01.520 --> 0:18:04.560 and frankly for the entire economy and well being of 0:18:04.600 --> 0:18:06.920 the world. Well, Jill, you know, Carol mentioned that we 0:18:06.960 --> 0:18:09.440 spoke about this in our recording for the Weekend show, 0:18:09.440 --> 0:18:11.280 And the point that I brought up is that we 0:18:11.320 --> 0:18:15.320 hear so much about daily data cases, worldwide hospitalizations, worldwide 0:18:15.320 --> 0:18:17.560 deaths worldwide. Those are the direct effects of COVID, but 0:18:17.640 --> 0:18:20.639 the the indirect effects of COVID. I'm wondering how you 0:18:20.680 --> 0:18:23.639 measure the indirect effects that you write about in your story. 0:18:23.720 --> 0:18:25.879 What is the data? What are the data that we 0:18:25.920 --> 0:18:29.080 need to be paying attention to. Well, So part of 0:18:29.080 --> 0:18:32.440 the challenge is that because because of COVID itself, because 0:18:32.440 --> 0:18:37.080 it's a contagious respiratory illness, the gold standard for data gathering, 0:18:37.119 --> 0:18:40.320 which is essentially home visits, so going face to face 0:18:40.359 --> 0:18:43.959 with people UM has largely been suspended, and so a 0:18:43.960 --> 0:18:47.320 lot of data gathering organizations are relying on things like 0:18:47.520 --> 0:18:51.440 phone interviews. Well, in many parts of the world, the 0:18:51.480 --> 0:18:53.800 most powerful person in the household who is usually the 0:18:53.800 --> 0:18:56.520 father is the person who has control of the phone, right, 0:18:56.920 --> 0:18:59.680 So you may not be reaching the most vulnerable members 0:18:59.720 --> 0:19:03.240 of that household. You probably aren't reaching adolescent girls. So 0:19:03.920 --> 0:19:07.000 there are huge gaps in the data. Um. The data 0:19:07.080 --> 0:19:11.760 that we do have shows a pretty dire picture. UM. 0:19:11.840 --> 0:19:13.240 You know, I know you already mentioned this, but it 0:19:13.240 --> 0:19:17.600 shows an uptick uh in adolescent pregnancies, and adolescent pregnancy 0:19:17.760 --> 0:19:20.920 is the number one killer of girls in the developing world, 0:19:21.000 --> 0:19:24.159 of adolescent girls and the developing world. UM. So, so 0:19:24.240 --> 0:19:27.720 that's a pretty significant problem. Uh. We know that huge 0:19:27.800 --> 0:19:30.600 numbers of young people have gone hungry. We know that 0:19:30.640 --> 0:19:34.520 we've seen increased reports of domestic violence, uh and not 0:19:34.640 --> 0:19:38.080 just partner violence, but no violence in the home parents 0:19:38.080 --> 0:19:41.520 of using children, for example. UM. And we know that 0:19:41.600 --> 0:19:45.800 many children have not returned to school after they've dropped out. UM. 0:19:45.800 --> 0:19:50.520 In Kenya, for example, once schools reopened, significantly larger proportions 0:19:50.520 --> 0:19:53.719 of boys than girls returned to the classroom. UM. So 0:19:53.760 --> 0:19:58.200 a lot of these girls are just lost. Um. And still, 0:19:58.280 --> 0:20:01.560 because COVID is an ongoing crisis US, we don't fully 0:20:01.680 --> 0:20:06.600 know just how devastating the impacts are. You know reminder 0:20:06.680 --> 0:20:08.760 that we talked him and I talked about this a lot, 0:20:08.960 --> 0:20:12.560 Um Jill, this idea that this pandemic, you know, you 0:20:12.560 --> 0:20:15.080 really have to think about your community. Uh. It's not 0:20:15.119 --> 0:20:17.760 necessarily those who live next door to you, your neighborhood, 0:20:17.840 --> 0:20:20.000 or who you work with, but it's also your global community. 0:20:20.119 --> 0:20:22.719 Right in terms of getting this under control. UM, just 0:20:22.720 --> 0:20:25.480 got about forty seconds left here. The responsibility of the 0:20:25.520 --> 0:20:29.880 developed world and helping out this is important. It's it's 0:20:30.000 --> 0:20:32.360 very important. So, I mean, one thing the developed world 0:20:32.440 --> 0:20:36.040 can do is as we're funding COVID recovery, to remember 0:20:36.119 --> 0:20:38.720 that we are all deeply connected. The lesson we really 0:20:38.720 --> 0:20:42.719 should have learned during a global pandemic, UM, and so 0:20:42.840 --> 0:20:45.639 making sure that as we are doing a recovery, that 0:20:45.720 --> 0:20:48.840 it is looking beyond our borders, and that we're making 0:20:48.880 --> 0:20:52.760 sure that we invest uh in girls and women and 0:20:52.800 --> 0:20:55.159 the people that have really borne the largest front of 0:20:55.200 --> 0:21:00.320 this pandemic, not just physically but also economically and terms 0:21:00.320 --> 0:21:03.320 of development. All Right, we're gonna leave it on that note, UM, Jill, 0:21:03.400 --> 0:21:05.800 thank you so much. Really an important read, uh and 0:21:05.920 --> 0:21:10.040 some great reporting. UM Jill Philippovich. She is a Bloomberg 0:21:10.080 --> 0:21:12.480 Business Week freelance writer. This story is in the new 0:21:12.520 --> 0:21:15.800 issue of Bloomberg Business Week magazine. You can get that 0:21:15.920 --> 0:21:18.440 on newsstand at Bloomberg business Week dot com and also 0:21:18.480 --> 0:21:20.600 of course on the Bloomberg Terminal and again catch it 0:21:20.600 --> 0:21:22.639 in our weekends. Yeah, it's a powerful story. It's a 0:21:22.640 --> 0:21:25.720 heart wrenching story. Definitely encourage everyone to check it out again, 0:21:25.760 --> 0:21:28.399 available at Bloomberg dot com, on the Bloomberg Terminal, and 0:21:28.480 --> 0:21:30.399 on newstands. So like, we'll be measuring the impact of 0:21:30.440 --> 0:21:32.760 the pandemic for some time, right, I mean, look at 0:21:32.760 --> 0:21:35.639 just schools in the US. Exactly. All right, you're listening 0:21:35.680 --> 0:21:41.040 to Bloomberg Radio. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol 0:21:41.119 --> 0:21:45.560 Masser and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. 0:21:46.040 --> 0:21:48.119 So Tim, if you're under forty, you've never seen a 0:21:48.119 --> 0:21:52.919 hawk is fed? Okay? President company and included me right exactly, 0:21:53.040 --> 0:21:55.800 And this is what our macroman Cameron Cries writes about 0:21:55.800 --> 0:21:57.840 in this column today. This story, by the way, among 0:21:57.880 --> 0:22:00.920 our most read on the Bloomberg terminal. Everyon is macro 0:22:00.920 --> 0:22:02.960