Speaker 1: Hey everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Hello friends,
Speaker 1: welcome back to another episode of Work in Progress. This week,
Speaker 1: we have a guest many of you have been clamoring for.
Speaker 1: She is an incredible actress, an incredible advocate, a brilliant human,
Speaker 1: and happens to be my love interest from Grey's Anatomy.
Speaker 1: This week, we are joined by none other than the
Speaker 1: legend herself, Kim Raver. You likely know Kim as Audrey
Speaker 1: Rains from twenty four Kim Zimbrana on Third Watch and
Speaker 1: since two thousand and nine as playing the iconic doctor
Speaker 1: Teddy Altman on ABC's medical drama Grey's Anatomy. I have
Speaker 1: had the absolute pleasure of working alongside her this year,
Speaker 1: bringing Teddy and Cass to your screens. We're both big
Speaker 1: fans of y'all's chosen ship name for us, Cassidy, and
Speaker 1: this year, not only did I get to work alongside Kim,
Speaker 1: but I got to be directed by her. And today
Speaker 1: I can't wait to dive into talking about her creative process,
Speaker 1: why she is so protective of and has so much
Speaker 1: love for her character, and how she looks back in
Speaker 1: hindsight on having been on one of television's biggest hit
Speaker 1: shows for all these years. Let's dive in with Kim Raver.
Speaker 1: I'm just so excited that you're here. You came on
Speaker 1: the zoom and I was about to be like, hey, girlfriend,
Speaker 1: and then I was like, wait, the internet. We'll die
Speaker 1: for that.
Speaker 2: I think you should just because.
Speaker 1: Okay, maybe that's what we'll call our episode.
Speaker 2: I like it.
Speaker 1: Hey girl, Hey girlfriend, we have so much to talk about,
Speaker 1: and I'm so excited. But before you know, we dive
Speaker 1: into our last year of working together and all the
Speaker 1: years I've been lucky enough to know you, I actually
Speaker 1: want to go backwards. I think it's so exciting to
Speaker 1: sit down with people who have such amazing bodies of
Speaker 1: work and who are doing such cool things in the world.
Speaker 1: And I wonder if you got to hang out with
Speaker 1: a childhood version of you, you know, you at nine
Speaker 1: or twelve, If you could spend time with that little
Speaker 1: version of Kim, would you see the woman you are
Speaker 1: today in her? Or do you think she'd be totally
Speaker 1: shocked to meet you.
Speaker 2: That's such a great question.
Speaker 3: It's so interesting and I don't know if it's like generational,
Speaker 3: but I feel like the younger Kim like you said nine. Yeah,
Speaker 3: like that wasn't even in the purview, that wasn't even
Speaker 3: in the I mean maybe it's also it was just
Speaker 3: like survival. Like I'm I, you know, grew up divorced parents,
Speaker 3: very young age, single mom raising me and my sister
Speaker 3: by herself in New York City and and the like.
Speaker 3: The good fortune of it is that we didn't have
Speaker 3: phones and TikTok like there was.
Speaker 2: It was it was.
Speaker 3: So there wasn't sort of this like what am I
Speaker 3: going to be kind of thing, which is amazing and
Speaker 3: kind of great. And I mean I joke because I
Speaker 3: mean I'll go back a little bit.
Speaker 2: You know, like.
Speaker 3: This parenting generation is much more sort of like helicopter
Speaker 3: and I think it's because we were so like left
Speaker 3: to our own vices. There was like an ad that
Speaker 3: I was like, would come on television and say, it's
Speaker 3: ten o'clock.
Speaker 2: Do you know where your children are?
Speaker 1: Yes?
Speaker 3: I mean right, And now it's like I'm like, I'm
Speaker 3: tracking our kids and I'm like, where are they are they?
Speaker 2: You know, so there.
Speaker 3: I think the younger me was like just sort of
Speaker 3: putting one foot in front of the other and you know,
Speaker 3: getting to school in New York City in the eighties
Speaker 3: by myself, and that's not so.
Speaker 2: I mean, my mom was on it, but she was
Speaker 2: also a.
Speaker 3: Working mom and newly divorced, and that wasn't really a thing.
Speaker 3: There weren't a lot of A there weren't a lot
Speaker 3: of women in advertising working, and b there weren't a
Speaker 3: lot of like divorces, So there was.
Speaker 2: That aspect of it.
Speaker 3: But then I found you know, it's funny, I I
Speaker 3: I was in Sesame Street as a kid, but I
Speaker 3: never consider myself as like a child actress.
Speaker 1: It wasn't like, wait, was that a regular job or
Speaker 1: you like did a couple of episodes.
Speaker 2: It was like a three year job.
Speaker 1: Kim. How did I never know this about you?
Speaker 2: It's funny, I said it, like everyone knows. Everyone's like,
Speaker 2: so you're a child. I'm like, no, I'm not.
Speaker 3: That was like my mom was shopping for clothes for
Speaker 3: my sister and I and someone was like, hey, your
Speaker 3: kids would be great on Sesame Street and my mom, again,
Speaker 3: my mom was a single mom, and she was like, y,
Speaker 3: it'll pay for private school in New York City. Take
Speaker 3: a you know, And it was a place for me
Speaker 3: that was steady and uh protective, and I mean there
Speaker 3: was these doors in the green room that said one, two, three,
Speaker 3: open Sesame and then I would go into the like
Speaker 3: magic world, right. So for but that wasn't like oh
Speaker 3: I'm going to be an actor, right, It just was like, oh,
Speaker 3: this is a world to make believe that I love
Speaker 3: so much that I see you know, I see the
Speaker 3: you know the Carol who was Big Bird was an
Speaker 3: amazing mister Hooper, all of them, right, So that was
Speaker 3: but then I think, I mean, look, I was a very.
Speaker 2: You know, my sister was very much.
Speaker 3: Like really studious and like an incredible academic and more quiet,
Speaker 3: and I was just like, yeah, I think that being
Speaker 3: on Sesame true was definitely like a place of like, oh,
Speaker 3: this is kind of a world. And then it really
Speaker 3: wasn't until later that I got more involved with it.
Speaker 3: But to answer your question of would I have imagined
Speaker 3: that this is where kind of I would be, No,
Speaker 3: because it wasn't really it wasn't really kind of premeditated.
Speaker 3: I mean, yes, at thirteen I kind of was like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 3: this is definitely what I.
Speaker 2: Want to do.
Speaker 1: And wow, why was there a moment by thirteen or
Speaker 1: were you just watching more TV and more conscious that
Speaker 1: that was a thing people could do as a job.
Speaker 2: I think it was my mom.
Speaker 3: My mom took me to a lot of stuff in
Speaker 3: New York and a lot of you know whatever she
Speaker 3: could kind of you know, get us to or a four.
Speaker 3: And she took me to this theater company and it
Speaker 3: was called the first all Children's Theater and it was
Speaker 3: kids from six to eighteen and really completely diverse. It
Speaker 3: wasn't sort of like what we have now like after school.
Speaker 3: It was a real theater company. If you were a
Speaker 3: minute late, you were kicked out of the company.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 3: And that there was no excuses. There was no oh
Speaker 3: my bus was late. I mean there were so many
Speaker 3: times where I was literally like running across Central Park
Speaker 3: because I had missed the bus that would get me
Speaker 3: there on time. And and I think, and you know,
Speaker 3: Elizabeth Swadows wrote one of the one of the productions,
Speaker 3: and you know we would go away at Christmas and
Speaker 3: you know, we performed at the Kennedy Center and kind
Speaker 3: of it was a real touring theater company.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And I think it was really in that moment that
Speaker 3: I was like, oh, this that's where I kind of
Speaker 3: realized it was a craft and that it was something
Speaker 3: that I it to do.
Speaker 1: That's so cool.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so yeah, I think that that's sort of sort
Speaker 3: really where it began.
Speaker 1: Wow, And I didn't realize it'd be making these connections
Speaker 1: listening to your stories today, but listen, I'd be remiss
Speaker 1: not to say you literally grew up on Sesame Street,
Speaker 1: you're a PBS kid, and then you're talking about being
Speaker 1: in a theater company that got to perform at the
Speaker 1: Kennedy Center, like public arts changed your life.
Speaker 2: With out and how important now more than ever?
Speaker 1: Right, It's yeah, I think people forget that not only
Speaker 1: is PBS a service for the parents who are making
Speaker 1: sure their kids are getting supplemental education at home, but
Speaker 1: look at what these public arts programs did for you
Speaker 1: and your own life. It's really beautiful.
Speaker 3: Yeah, especially with my mom not being able to kind
Speaker 3: of be a part of other things to find and
Speaker 3: it's interesting hadn't thought of it through that way, but
Speaker 3: it definitely, you know, it changed my life. It changed
Speaker 3: I could see it changed the life of people who
Speaker 3: were coming and watching this theater company and all of
Speaker 3: the other kids involved. I mean, there are really a
Speaker 3: lot of kids who didn't have their parents around because
Speaker 3: they were working and you know, financially needed to be
Speaker 3: at work and they couldn't be picked up at school.
Speaker 3: And so I think also that sort of thing of
Speaker 3: the discipline that it gave all of us, and also
Speaker 3: sort of a center that was all of our owns
Speaker 3: that came from very kind of fractioned families, which I think,
Speaker 3: you know, PBS also reaching not only locally, but also
Speaker 3: when we think about.
Speaker 2: How it has, like you said, sort of educated many
Speaker 2: of us.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean generations of kids. It's so special, and
Speaker 1: I hope it can be a great reminder to our
Speaker 1: friends at home that it's an organization we're supporting, especially
Speaker 1: right now when it's under attack. Yeah, did you feel
Speaker 1: like you had a backup plan if acting didn't work
Speaker 1: or were you like gung ho as a teen? I'm
Speaker 1: doing this like, I don't. I don't need a plan v.
Speaker 2: You know, I know I mentioned it before.
Speaker 3: My sister is such an academic I mean which two
Speaker 3: ivs like undergrad and crad you know, yeah, and also
Speaker 3: like a you know, very prestigious boarding school. So pardon me,
Speaker 3: was like, maybe I should make sure that I have,
Speaker 3: you know, a.
Speaker 2: Backup plan because the percentages of people who work.
Speaker 4: I mean, you know, they're like they're they're tiny, tiny,
Speaker 4: and uh so I did make sure that I did study.
Speaker 3: You know, I went to BU and I went to
Speaker 3: their acting program, so I did. I did make sure
Speaker 3: of that. But I I sort of did feel like
Speaker 3: it was it was theater or bust, and I kind
Speaker 3: of always thought that it was gonna go to the theater.
Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, I thought I was just going to
Speaker 3: sort of be the theater route. I didn't know how
Speaker 3: it was going to go, but I knew how I
Speaker 3: felt when.
Speaker 2: I was doing it.
Speaker 3: And it's so interesting because, Oh, to answer your question back,
Speaker 3: which is I remember sitting in the audience and watching
Speaker 3: one of the performers in this theater company, and he
Speaker 3: had a light about him.
Speaker 2: It just was like this.
Speaker 3: Inner thing and I was like, whatever that is, Like
Speaker 3: that's for me. And that's why I signed up to
Speaker 3: audition for that theater company after I saw his name
Speaker 3: was Joseph, after I saw him perform, and I think
Speaker 3: that that's what I kind of always come home to.
Speaker 3: It's like that, it's that feeling, and I feel so
Speaker 3: lucky and so fortunate that I get to actually do it.
Speaker 2: I know, we all know that there's so much of
Speaker 2: it that's it's like trudging along to get to be
Speaker 2: able to.
Speaker 1: Do Yeah, to get to be a working actress so hard.
Speaker 1: And also what a wild thing to talk about in
Speaker 1: the context of the twenty first season of Grey's Anatomy,
Speaker 1: Like that just doesn't happen. No, it's crazy, and I
Speaker 1: know that. I mean, you joined really pretty early when
Speaker 1: you think about in the lifespan of the show, it
Speaker 1: was two thousand and nine. It was during the show's
Speaker 1: sixth season, and six years is also a long time.
Speaker 1: Were you a fan of the show and you've seen it?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 1: God, so were you nervous walking in there? What was
Speaker 1: it like? Take me back to nine and what it
Speaker 1: felt like to start going to play at Seattle Grace.
Speaker 3: I think the funny thing is is that to speak,
Speaker 3: you know, like a show going on five years. What
Speaker 3: is funny is when I was doing twenty four, it
Speaker 3: was sort of the height of the success of twenty four,
Speaker 3: the height of the success of Grace, and so we
Speaker 3: were kind of like, wow, we were not not rivals
Speaker 3: at all, but like we were always our tables were always.
Speaker 2: Next to each other, like at the end or sad.
Speaker 2: So it was like, you know, the reason I also
Speaker 2: kind of knew.
Speaker 3: All of them is because you know, it's some of
Speaker 3: those you know, like for people who don't know, like
Speaker 3: those award shows, You'll be sitting and my chair would
Speaker 3: be like touching, you know, Sandra's.
Speaker 2: Chair or whatever.
Speaker 1: So it was like, who's.
Speaker 2: Gonna Who's gonna win this time?
Speaker 3: And look, those are amazing, amazing times, and I'm totally
Speaker 3: aware of those. But what was funny is so it
Speaker 3: was literally sort of three years of that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then.
Speaker 3: I think I might have even met I'm pretty sure
Speaker 3: that this is how it happened. I'm, uh, Betsy Beers
Speaker 3: and Shonda Rhimes at one of those awards.
Speaker 2: Wow, and you know, we kind of both.
Speaker 3: Had some fan moments and and so then the then
Speaker 3: when I found out that I was going to do Grays,
Speaker 3: it was this sort of crazy moment of oh God, well,
Speaker 3: how are they gonna How is it going to be?
Speaker 3: When I've been sort of like, you know, it like
Speaker 3: we've been sort of like on this path on opposite
Speaker 3: like teams, right like like all of a sudden, you know,
Speaker 3: you're you've sort of been like these athletes all along
Speaker 3: and then all of a sudden, you're like, oh, and
Speaker 3: now we're on the same team.
Speaker 2: And I remember I.
Speaker 3: Was really nervous, and really it was yeah, because it
Speaker 3: was the day because they were such a tight knit group,
Speaker 3: kind of similar twenty four and you know, you go
Speaker 3: through so much those first years of starting a show,
Speaker 3: as you know, I mean, your incredible success and and
Speaker 3: so I remember, you know, on the soundstages, we had
Speaker 3: like they emptied out the whole sound so it's like
Speaker 3: this huge airplane hanger practically pitch black except for a
Speaker 3: light on this giant rectangular table.
Speaker 2: That had everyone like all of.
Speaker 3: The networks in the studio and the producers and the
Speaker 3: writers and the entire I had to walk in to
Speaker 3: this whole group, which it feels so different now being
Speaker 3: in it, because when someone comes in, it's just it
Speaker 3: just feels I don't know, it feels different. But it
Speaker 3: was so daunting, and I'll never forget I had this
Speaker 3: sort of like complete like just an anxiety of walking
Speaker 3: into this group. When Sandra Oh, from the opposite table,
Speaker 3: like it's far like if I'm at the door, she
Speaker 3: was like at the far end table, she like got
Speaker 3: up in front of everyone, came around, came towards me,
Speaker 3: and I was like, and she just gave me.
Speaker 2: This huge hug welcome me.
Speaker 3: And from that point on it was just sort of
Speaker 3: this incredible I just thought that was one of the
Speaker 3: most generous mind.
Speaker 2: And that is also who Sandra is.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but so that was sort of like the beginning
Speaker 3: of it, and I was like, oh, okay.
Speaker 1: Here we go, and now a word from our sponsors,
Speaker 1: who make the show possible. A lot of people have
Speaker 1: asked me what it felt like walking in with you
Speaker 1: guys at the top of the year, and I would
Speaker 1: say the same, and you have and I've talked about this,
Speaker 1: I mean, perhaps ad nauseum for listeners at this point,
Speaker 1: because I've spoken about it in every interview I've done
Speaker 1: about our storyline. But you have such a warm, lovely,
Speaker 1: grateful set. Everyone's thrilled to be there. There is so
Speaker 1: little ego, and I'm sure that takes time to iron out.
Speaker 1: And I'm sure you know, you know, in twenty one years,
Speaker 1: how could you not be so well oiled as a machine,
Speaker 1: all of you. But people have asked what it's like
Speaker 1: and I said, you know, it really kind of took
Speaker 1: my breath away. At the second table read I came to,
Speaker 1: I was like, wow, every single person from the number
Speaker 1: one down shows up for this, you know, and similarly
Speaker 1: to what you're saying in your story, you know, I
Speaker 1: walked in. It was actually the first one i'd been
Speaker 1: to for our second episode. I think I was on
Speaker 1: the East coast when you guys did the table read
Speaker 1: for my first and Ellen got up and walked over
Speaker 1: and gave me a huggin said thank you so much
Speaker 1: for joining the show. You just don't know what it
Speaker 1: does for us. And I was like, ma'am, Ellen Bombayoh, ma'am.
Speaker 2: She's she's right. I mean she's right. Like we felt so.
Speaker 3: Just so lucky and so happy to have you, and
Speaker 3: you have just been an eye and I'm sure like
Speaker 3: because I've been saying it in every interview, I mean,
Speaker 3: you are just such a light.
Speaker 2: You're just so.
Speaker 3: Collaborative and talk about shining light, like walk into the
Speaker 3: room and everyone feels it on set and you're you're
Speaker 3: just such a collaborator and I just love how you're
Speaker 3: like how like how how can we make it the best?
Speaker 1: Bet say?
Speaker 2: And what's the most efficient and most fun? And you
Speaker 2: can tell.
Speaker 3: I mean, you've just been doing it for just so
Speaker 3: many years. Your your professionalism is extraordinary and thank you
Speaker 3: friends to jump in. I mean, so I think we
Speaker 3: that's really genuine. I mean I think we all to have,
Speaker 3: you know, such a shining star like walk in and
Speaker 3: you know, sort of eff use you know that your
Speaker 3: light and your talent and your professionalism and your intelligence,
Speaker 3: Oh my goodness, was really.
Speaker 2: And is incredible.
Speaker 3: And I also, you know, it's funny, there's been a
Speaker 3: lot of stuff about like, you know, women supporting women
Speaker 3: and oh they aren't really supporting women, and I totally
Speaker 3: get that, but I do have to say every everything
Speaker 3: that we do, there is that ripple effect. And your
Speaker 3: support for me when I was directing and just coming
Speaker 3: in also was so extraordinary and I'm so filled with
Speaker 3: gratitude because that energy is pervasive to the crew. And
Speaker 3: yes it's it's you know, you were coming and joining us,
Speaker 3: but it is a part of the sort of women
Speaker 3: supporting women and expanding and growing.
Speaker 2: And you're so generous.
Speaker 3: You are just not you know, there's some like a
Speaker 3: sort of gatekeeping and whether it be on set or
Speaker 3: you're like, oh, you're going to Boston, with your kid,
Speaker 3: and I have this incredible friend who like, oh no,
Speaker 3: I mean connected, I mean you literally she was like
Speaker 3: on the phone and she's like, oh, You've got to
Speaker 3: meet this amazing person.
Speaker 2: She's so great, and she is this magnificent woman.
Speaker 3: And it didn't surprise me that she was, you know,
Speaker 3: such a superstar like Sophia.
Speaker 1: But what you're talking about is exactly how it felt
Speaker 1: for me. Not only do I when you talk about
Speaker 1: you know, two thousand and nine and the experience you
Speaker 1: had walking in and Sandra ran up to you, and
Speaker 1: I had my experience walking into the table read and
Speaker 1: Ellen was so generous with me. And then of course
Speaker 1: there's there's miss Debbie Allen. I like, I'm gonna die
Speaker 1: talk about an icon and I go, Hi, Debbie, it's
Speaker 1: such a it's such a joy to be here. I'm
Speaker 1: Sophia Bush. And she yanks my hand toward her and goes,
Speaker 1: I know who you are, and I was like, okay, hi,
Speaker 1: And and then you are just at every single word
Speaker 1: you said about me, I want to mirror back to you.
Speaker 1: You are brilliant and exceptional. And I can't tell you
Speaker 1: how joyful it felt and also refreshing to watch you,
Speaker 1: Kevin Debbie, I mean everyone, the crew, Byron, the way
Speaker 1: he runs a camera crew. Everybody cares about the work
Speaker 1: so much, and you're willing to pause and say, you
Speaker 1: know what'll be more interesting is if we do it
Speaker 1: this way. I know we settled on this idea. This
Speaker 1: one's better. It allows someone like me who's coming into
Speaker 1: your space to feel like I can bring my full
Speaker 1: self and I won't be accused of being you know, pushy,
Speaker 1: or I won't be told we don't have time for that.
Speaker 1: We've already done this. The ripple effect goes both ways,
Speaker 1: and it creates so much freedom and it's so exciting,
Speaker 1: and there are there are plenty of shows that haven't
Speaker 1: been on nearly as long where everybody's clocking in and
Speaker 1: getting ready to clock out as soon as they can,
Speaker 1: and to be on a set that is so playful
Speaker 1: and so much much fun and also willing to take risks.
Speaker 2: You know, the fact this topic, yes, the fact.
Speaker 1: That you you know, as Teddy play this bisexual woman,
Speaker 1: that you have your whole beautiful storyline with you know,
Speaker 1: your partner who passed away, and what that means for
Speaker 1: you and Kevin as your characters, fall in love and
Speaker 1: you have to figure it out and to see a
Speaker 1: show be willing to say, hey, sometimes marriage is hard.
Speaker 1: Sometimes maybe you've married someone you love, but maybe the
Speaker 1: relationship isn't healthy, And instead of judging it or making
Speaker 1: it ugly or making it I don't know, something untoward,
Speaker 1: you come in with the opposite of judgment and say,
Speaker 1: let's explore something. Let's get people room to have conversations,
Speaker 1: and the conversation the idea might not even be the
Speaker 1: result they settle on, but let's let's explore things and
Speaker 1: remind people they can talk to each other. And I
Speaker 1: was like, hello, it's just so fun.
Speaker 3: I think it's because, I mean, I really feel like
Speaker 3: there's such a sense of collaboration. I mean, yes, look,
Speaker 3: television is really fast and we all got to move
Speaker 3: and we all know that. But in terms of collaborative feeling,
Speaker 3: especially with this topic, because I think both Kevin and
Speaker 3: I were nervous about sort of Oh.
Speaker 1: Yeah, tell me, what was it like when you guys
Speaker 1: found out you were going to do this. I'm dying
Speaker 1: to know.
Speaker 2: Before I showed up.
Speaker 3: Whenever you're shooting, like Meg, who's amazing, she's our showrunner
Speaker 3: and We've started this little kind of trend where we
Speaker 3: go to Joe's Bar because it's usually where we're off
Speaker 3: where we're shooting, and it's kind of that next set over.
Speaker 3: So we kind of go over there and we sort
Speaker 3: of talk things through of like what's the next storyline.
Speaker 3: And when she brought us, you know sort of that
Speaker 3: that she was sort of tinkering with the writer's open marriage.
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, okay. I was like, we need
Speaker 2: to say.
Speaker 3: So. And we also wanted to do it where we
Speaker 3: were the three of us together, to be really sort
Speaker 3: of consciously aware of how Kevin might be feeling about it,
Speaker 3: how I might be feeling about it, and so how
Speaker 3: so when she brought it, I was very much sort
Speaker 3: of I wanted it to be mindful and purposeful, and
Speaker 3: I wanted it not to be just sort of something
Speaker 3: to do, like kind of like, oh, let's just do
Speaker 3: something like really I wanted to be grounded and like
Speaker 3: sort of with consent because I felt like I'd gone
Speaker 3: through a whole like a cheating spell and I didn't.
Speaker 3: And I said to her, look, you guys are going
Speaker 3: to do whatever you want to do, but if I
Speaker 3: have my input, my input is that it's not that
Speaker 3: they just want to cheat, that it's actually, in fact
Speaker 3: away that they think perhaps could save the marriage, and
Speaker 3: that that Teddy has as a character evolved, that Teddy
Speaker 3: has actually evolved from this giant mistake that she made
Speaker 3: of infidelity. And I didn't want it to be tied
Speaker 3: to infidelity because I thought that.
Speaker 2: Yes moved forward and so that.
Speaker 3: Was there was some just really amazing dialogue between me,
Speaker 3: Meg and Kevin and she would digest kind of what
Speaker 3: our concerns were, go back with the writers, and then
Speaker 3: they would kind of work through it. And again, I
Speaker 3: really think because you came in and brought such depth
Speaker 3: to Cass that it was so much more than just
Speaker 3: again sort of like a fling thing.
Speaker 2: I didn't I and you and.
Speaker 3: I had a lot of discussions about that and the
Speaker 3: hash to that because I think it's I think, to me,
Speaker 3: it's really interesting when steaks are really high and that
Speaker 3: helps ground whatever new idea or trying to kind of do.
Speaker 3: And I what's so amazing about Shonda Rhymes is that
Speaker 3: she's never afraid to lean into the complicated. And you know,
Speaker 3: while an actor, you're so protective of and you're like.
Speaker 2: I don't know about like this.
Speaker 1: Is really.
Speaker 3: But for me, if I can get to the nugget
Speaker 3: of the truth of it and that what the snakes
Speaker 3: are of it, I can fully get behind it. And
Speaker 3: so for me, I kind of really got to well,
Speaker 3: I mean, it's either trying this open marriage or it
Speaker 3: looks like they might not last, right, And so whether open,
Speaker 3: whether you believe in it or not believe in it.
Speaker 2: And I think what's interesting is.
Speaker 3: That it's it's very complicated and very messy and very
Speaker 3: multi layered. And and again that is sort of what
Speaker 3: Shonda never shies away from, and she really enables the
Speaker 3: characters to kind of go from low point. And I'm
Speaker 3: not saying that this is a low point, but a
Speaker 3: low point in their marriage for sure had a low
Speaker 3: point in decisions that are made to kind of your
Speaker 3: hero moments. And and I think that that's also very
Speaker 3: relatable to fans because think I think a lot of
Speaker 3: television is sort of either hero or you know, you
Speaker 3: know evil. Yeah, And I think that we as individuals,
Speaker 3: we have our hero moments and we have our very
Speaker 3: you know, low bad decision moments. So it's going to
Speaker 3: be it's interesting too, right, It's interesting. How do you
Speaker 3: how in your experience in the last couple of weeks,
Speaker 3: how have the fans, how are they digesting what's happening?
Speaker 1: And now a word from our sponsors. It's really interesting
Speaker 1: because even before, you know, we had to do so
Speaker 1: much work obviously, and we shot so many episodes, and
Speaker 1: you do all these things so long before it airs.
Speaker 1: And one of the things that really was important for
Speaker 1: me and you touched on it a bit, was the
Speaker 1: amount of conversation you and I got to have about this.
Speaker 1: And something that felt important to me that I know
Speaker 1: was important to you is that this wasn't some tawdry
Speaker 1: affair thing as well. You know, I went through that
Speaker 1: twenty years ago. It's followed me around for my whole life.
Speaker 1: It's a miserable and it's something I'm like, very sensitive
Speaker 1: about even having to be adjacent to that, especially because
Speaker 1: you know, not to be crass, but what you so
Speaker 1: often see is some guy that cheats on his wife
Speaker 1: and he's a dickhead. And the dynamic in particular here
Speaker 1: about two women really expanding their idea of intimacy and
Speaker 1: fulfillment in their forties was interesting to me, and I
Speaker 1: think what's interesting to me, is I do know a couple.
Speaker 1: They're a heterosexual couple I've been friends with for ten
Speaker 1: years that are in an open marriage. I am still
Speaker 1: the friend that's like I could literally never I would
Speaker 1: die and we laugh. But on the flip side, they're
Speaker 1: also one of the couples I know who's been married
Speaker 1: the longest and they have a really healthy relationship. And
Speaker 1: something I learned years ago from another iconic friend of ours,
Speaker 1: Connie Britton, she said, you know, she said, I never
Speaker 1: judge my characters ever, It's not my job. But you
Speaker 1: said something that I think really rings true, which is
Speaker 1: we love our characters, so when we are worried they're
Speaker 1: doing something bad, we worry about them being judged. We
Speaker 1: have like second hand embarrassment or secondhand fear. And what
Speaker 1: I loved about this was that it was real honesty
Speaker 1: among adults, saying, nobody talks to you about this, Like
Speaker 1: the Disney movies don't pitch this stuff to you. They
Speaker 1: don't tell you how hard it's going to be to,
Speaker 1: you know, be in a relationship, and they don't tell
Speaker 1: you what it might take to stay in one, especially
Speaker 1: if you want it. You know, I like that Cass
Speaker 1: and her husband really like each other. I like that
Speaker 1: they have a spicy energy. I like that, even though
Speaker 1: it wasn't on the page, we added a beat where,
Speaker 1: you know, when he and Owen have to go back
Speaker 1: to the hospital, he kind of looks at me like
Speaker 1: she's cute. He gives me the go ahead, you know,
Speaker 1: in that first episode we did together. And so what
Speaker 1: I found was a desire to turn the idea on
Speaker 1: its head and to represent people that you know, aren't
Speaker 1: necessarily on the page, but who I do know, who
Speaker 1: I do care about in a good way. And then
Speaker 1: when you and I started to talk about what the
Speaker 1: intimacy is, particularly what this intimacy is between two women,
Speaker 1: particularly how that is just a simply different energy that
Speaker 1: they're not getting from the men that they're partnered with.
Speaker 2: What it is to.
Speaker 1: Feel seen, feel seen, to go so long feeling invisible,
Speaker 1: and then to have someone see you. That can be intoxicating,
Speaker 1: It can be a kind of chemistry. But then you
Speaker 1: have to figure out is this the kind of chemistry
Speaker 1: I have with my friend or is it a different kind?
Speaker 1: And so the slowness of being able to explore all
Speaker 1: of that felt really important, and I have to say
Speaker 1: all of that to say that now that the episode
Speaker 1: is aired, so what's amazing is so many of the
Speaker 1: fans are like, I can't explain it. I'm such a
Speaker 1: Teddy and Owen fan, but my god, I just want
Speaker 1: Teddy and Cas to be together now. And people are
Speaker 1: really excited about it, And even the ones that hope
Speaker 1: you and know and work it out are like, I
Speaker 1: don't know, maybe they can just be friends because we
Speaker 1: like seeing these two women together.
Speaker 2: That's to me also, and I love that.
Speaker 3: I know, I love that, and you created I mean,
Speaker 3: so many moments, but one that really stands out to
Speaker 3: me is when Teddy kind of has led casts, you know, down.
Speaker 2: This road and that she's ready and then in that moment.
Speaker 3: Of sort of feeling conflicted and saying that, whoh, this
Speaker 3: is not going to fix my marriage and kind of
Speaker 3: stops it again. What a beautiful moment that you chose
Speaker 3: for Cass to have sort of such compassion and understanding.
Speaker 2: It's it's it's such a a.
Speaker 3: Like a whisper of women supporting women in Ass's reaction
Speaker 3: to when ted It's a beautiful, unspoken moment and it's
Speaker 3: very moving to me. And I think also subconsciously, people
Speaker 3: are like, oh, yeah, whatever happens with them, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's it. And you see it, and you
Speaker 1: see that regardless of sex or sexuality or desire or
Speaker 1: whatever word you want to use being the top line idea,
Speaker 1: you see that, it's an actual connection. And it was
Speaker 1: so much fun to build that with you because I
Speaker 1: feel as my friend, I feel so connected to you. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and you're such a wonderful artist to collaborate with, and
Speaker 1: so it was so much fun, you know, to do
Speaker 1: all of that with you. And then I sort of
Speaker 1: had a giggle because I realized, you know, you and
Speaker 1: I have all this stuff. Obviously, given the Cassidy as
Speaker 1: they're calling our ship name, given the Cassidy storyline, most
Speaker 1: of our work is away from Kevin, who plays Owen.
Speaker 1: But then I got to have this whole surgery day
Speaker 1: with him, and there was difference. Oh my god, we
Speaker 1: had the time. We had so much fun because he's.
Speaker 2: Such a great guy, right.
Speaker 1: Like, Kevin is such a wonderful man. He was also
Speaker 1: directing the episode.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, that's great.
Speaker 1: A talented director. So I was with him and Chandra
Speaker 1: and James, and I was just like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: all my all my TV idols. I'm like, I'm doing
Speaker 1: surgery with the people I grew up watching a surgery
Speaker 1: show about Oh my god.
Speaker 3: By the way, we have to share with your fans,
Speaker 3: Like most people come in and it's a.
Speaker 5: Whole like what the how do I hold the She's
Speaker 5: like hand the thing and she's like, you know, she's
Speaker 5: got the cardiothoracic surgery down.
Speaker 1: It was so fun. It was The medical medical advisor
Speaker 1: on the show was like, god, I love when people
Speaker 1: have played doctors before. I was like, I got you.
Speaker 3: I'm sure. Linda Klein was like, oh oh, it was fun.
Speaker 1: But it was great because doing the scenes with him,
Speaker 1: you and I got to explore all of this intimacy
Speaker 1: and all of these ways women can see each other
Speaker 1: and support each other and have a different kind of
Speaker 1: rhythm with each other. And then it's like I went
Speaker 1: into surgery in the in the previous episode with Kevin
Speaker 1: and we were such bros and and he's he's like
Speaker 1: a pissed bro and we're we're scrubbing in and I
Speaker 1: just look at him and I'm essentially I don't I
Speaker 1: don't call him this, but I basically am like dude,
Speaker 1: my bad, misread it. You're good, not here to get
Speaker 1: in your way, and like it was so it was
Speaker 1: almost like we were we were two boys playing brothers
Speaker 1: in a scene, and then you and I are these
Speaker 1: like incredible, like you know, adult women having having this
Speaker 1: conversation about how they how they have intimacy. And I
Speaker 1: was like, this is so funny because I got to
Speaker 1: be this woman that I really admired and in one sense, uh,
Speaker 1: and then I got to be like a nine year
Speaker 1: old boy.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, that's so good.
Speaker 1: I love yeah, playing playing hospital with Kevin? What is
Speaker 1: your relationship like with him? I mean, you guys have
Speaker 1: had this, you know, decades almost long relationship. You have
Speaker 1: this very storied history as characters, and obviously you speak
Speaker 1: so highly of him. Did you always get along? Were
Speaker 1: you so excited when you found out Owen and Teddy
Speaker 1: we're going to have this great love?
Speaker 3: What was it like in the beginning, From the moment
Speaker 3: we met, It's just this fantastic like work marriage, There's
Speaker 3: such a respect for one another.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: I think the base is there's such a trust between
Speaker 3: us because we've had to go to some pretty you know,
Speaker 3: our characters have to go to like these very dark, hard, vulnerable,
Speaker 3: intense places. And also we had this very kind of
Speaker 3: confusing you know with Sandra's character christ and there was
Speaker 3: single and Teddy and Christina like wanted to be a
Speaker 3: team and not romantically at all, but in terms of
Speaker 3: like mentor mentee, and she was sort of willing to
Speaker 3: give up Owen to work with Teddy, and so you know,
Speaker 3: automatically there could have been this just like very tense.
Speaker 2: Relationship, but we had such.
Speaker 3: A an organic chemistry really with the three of us,
Speaker 3: Me and Sandra and Kevin because we had to navigate
Speaker 3: a lot of stuff there. Yeah, So I sort of
Speaker 3: feel like in the moment I met him, you know,
Speaker 3: I came in Shonda Rhime's and Betsy Bears brought me in.
Speaker 3: This is I think I was just finishing twenty four
Speaker 3: when I first first started to meet everyone, like to
Speaker 3: meet Kevin and sort of see if that was going
Speaker 3: to be a good and we just I remember us
Speaker 3: like sitting on catch It. I was like, hey, hey,
Speaker 3: like we just had such an easy, sort of effortless
Speaker 3: We kind of have the same sort of work ethic.
Speaker 2: And similar.
Speaker 3: You know, he had been on a bunch of shows
Speaker 3: before I had been on a bunch of shows, and
Speaker 3: you know, he's incredibly you know, welcoming because he had
Speaker 3: been there for a while, and I just I just
Speaker 3: sort of, uh trust him, and I hope and I
Speaker 3: think he feels the same.
Speaker 2: So we're able to go to very.
Speaker 3: Raw places as creatives, and I think to be able
Speaker 3: to be on a series that does have to move
Speaker 3: so fast and it's a really it's a luxury to
Speaker 3: kind of have that relationship of trust and to be
Speaker 3: able to try things. It's like, I know, I sort
Speaker 3: of know that if I'm going to be in a
Speaker 3: free fall, that he's going to catch me, which is
Speaker 3: so great because it means that you can really as
Speaker 3: an artist, step out of your comfort zone and know
Speaker 3: that you know your your partner, who you're you're out
Speaker 3: there with, is going to have you. So I think
Speaker 3: you know feels that same way. But I think that
Speaker 3: that's you know, and and and there's massive amounts of
Speaker 3: stuff that we have to tackle at a time, you.
Speaker 1: Know, yeah, of course, So yeah, it's just.
Speaker 3: Really been kind of just lovely and respectful and you know,
Speaker 3: you spend so many hours, uh, and I think that
Speaker 3: that's also why we were so protective of this storyline. Yeah,
Speaker 3: because we our characters have been together for so long
Speaker 3: and not I mean, like what you were saying I
Speaker 3: thought was really interesting and love Connie Britten. I mean,
Speaker 3: I know, we're all the way back from our New
Speaker 3: York theater days, and it's interesting because it it wasn't
Speaker 3: so much as judging the character, but but safeguarding that
Speaker 3: we weren't just gonna do something to do it, that
Speaker 3: there was real deep intention behind it, similar to the
Speaker 3: conversations you and I had about open marriage and what
Speaker 3: is the story that we're telling? That it really had
Speaker 3: a depth to it, and I'm sure that the writers
Speaker 3: also wanted that same intention. But you know, the writers
Speaker 3: are always steps ahead of us when they bring us
Speaker 3: a new idea, So just to kind of hear from them,
Speaker 3: like what they're thinking, and I have to give the
Speaker 3: writing team just such a huge shout out, if you will,
Speaker 3: that that they listen to what our concerns are then,
Speaker 3: and look, if they're total if our concerns are like,
Speaker 3: you know, kind.
Speaker 2: Of bullshit, then they'll call it bullshit, right.
Speaker 3: But if they actually are making sense, I feel like,
Speaker 3: you know, Meg really listens and kind of goes back
Speaker 3: and sort of reworks it and hones it into here's
Speaker 3: the initial idea, here was input, and it kind of
Speaker 3: amalgamates into I think where we are today with you
Speaker 3: know the storyline of open marriage and then also, you know,
Speaker 3: all of your incredible input and finesse to it so
Speaker 3: that so that it's a deeper thing rather than just
Speaker 3: kind of clickbait.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, and that's it, right you, No matter what
Speaker 1: you're doing, you want to humanize it because that, I
Speaker 1: also think is the way out of judgment of your character.
Speaker 1: It's the way out of feeling like something is gratuitous,
Speaker 1: to make something really real, to give it emotional legs,
Speaker 1: to think through it intellectually. And that was part of
Speaker 1: what was so much fun for me, you know, coming
Speaker 1: in with you guys, because you care so much and
Speaker 1: you do so much work on it that you know,
Speaker 1: it made me feel like I could also bring the
Speaker 1: best version of myself to that. I'm realizing that, you know,
Speaker 1: I was saying, how I'm seeing how I'm seeing fans
Speaker 1: react to our storyline, but how are the fans reacting
Speaker 1: for you? I Mean, you've been part of this world
Speaker 1: for so long. And I imagine you have a relationship
Speaker 1: with the Grays fan base, Like what what's your internet
Speaker 1: look like right now? Are people excited? Are they upset?
Speaker 1: Are they all the things?
Speaker 3: It's so interesting because you know, I wanted to be
Speaker 3: home when are like the episode that I directed aired
Speaker 3: and I was away, so I haven't done like a
Speaker 3: sort of deep die you're waiting.
Speaker 2: I'm kind of waiting.
Speaker 3: To like be because it just you know, I mean,
Speaker 3: and then the finale, and I do think that there's
Speaker 3: mixed feelings. I think we definitely stirred up the and
Speaker 3: I get it, you know what I mean, Like it's, yeah,
Speaker 3: like what's so cute? I'm realizing now the fans are
Speaker 3: going through what I went through when they first said.
Speaker 2: Oh we're going to do an open marriage.
Speaker 1: Yes, what the.
Speaker 2: Fuck are you talking about?
Speaker 1: Open marriage?
Speaker 2: So I think and then and then some people split
Speaker 2: off and they're like this is fantastic. I'm shipping that.
Speaker 2: You know, Cassidy and.
Speaker 3: I love them and sort of like how we feel
Speaker 3: about like all of our scenes, like we love it,
Speaker 3: and then also like heartbroken, like like in terms.
Speaker 2: Of like but hold on, is Owen hurt?
Speaker 6: Like what's happening and then like what happens with where
Speaker 6: Owen is going in his storyline, And so I think
Speaker 6: from the small little at the airport of what I read,
Speaker 6: I think it's this mix of sort of like what
Speaker 6: I went through, you know, of yeah, and you know,
Speaker 6: I get it, like when you've been shipping a relationship
Speaker 6: for as long as Teddy and Owen have been together,
Speaker 6: and there's something you know and and it it's on
Speaker 6: the precipice of not making it or making it. That's
Speaker 6: really scary because I totally get why people, I.
Speaker 3: Mean people, I was skiing up on the top of
Speaker 3: a mountain, like you have to like it's like way
Speaker 3: up there, and the in Italian this woman at the
Speaker 3: cash register was like, are you telling.
Speaker 4: You all men?
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, it's like and she had, you know, feelings.
Speaker 1: So it's it's just.
Speaker 3: So interesting that it reaches such like there's such a
Speaker 3: huge reach to it.
Speaker 2: And I think it's because it's that organic thing.
Speaker 3: Of like, well, if this relationship is not making it,
Speaker 3: what does it mean about my relationships? And I think
Speaker 3: that that's also okay, Like I think that that's what's
Speaker 3: really cool is and that's also why I think Greece
Speaker 3: has lasted, you know, twenty going into twenty two seasons.
Speaker 3: We're all on the roller coaster of these characters, and
Speaker 3: I totally get. I totally get the confusion, the ships,
Speaker 3: the you know, the wanting of all the different things
Speaker 3: and the confusion of the new things.
Speaker 2: And yes, it's sort of a multitude of feelings. I think.
Speaker 1: I love that. I love that. And now a word
Speaker 1: from our wonderful sponsors. When did you start directing?
Speaker 2: I started My first thing was with Alissa Milano.
Speaker 3: Oh you you know, you guys have a similar thing
Speaker 3: of just supporting other women in in so many aspects
Speaker 3: of life.
Speaker 2: There were these three books.
Speaker 3: That I, you know, with a couple other people, we
Speaker 3: were like, let's try to you know, make these into films,
Speaker 3: and we ended up getting the rights of like seven books.
Speaker 3: But then they couldn't figure out, you know, sort of
Speaker 3: where to put this one book. And again it was
Speaker 3: about a woman, really interesting story, and so through like
Speaker 3: a sort of long, you know, kind of hall, we
Speaker 3: ended up getting three of them made, and one of
Speaker 3: them I directed with my husband, and he directed another one,
Speaker 3: and then I went back to Grace, and then there
Speaker 3: was the third one. But it was just it was
Speaker 3: this feeling of, you know, having kind of done the
Speaker 3: acting lane for a while that I just was like, oh,
Speaker 3: I want to see what it's like from other perspectives.
Speaker 3: And having someone like Debbie Allen and Kevin Conra Wilson
Speaker 3: and watching them kind of, uh, you know, put on
Speaker 3: a totally different hat and sort of lead the way.
Speaker 2: Really opened up the sort of that door for me.
Speaker 3: And so and I think, I don't know if I'm
Speaker 3: repeating myself, but you know, Debbie Allen doesn't just hand
Speaker 3: out episodes, like if you're on the show, it doesn't
Speaker 3: mean that you're.
Speaker 2: Going to get an episode.
Speaker 3: You have to really it's almost like the Debbie Allen
Speaker 3: UCLA Film School.
Speaker 2: She's not in collaboration with UCLA, but I just feel
Speaker 2: like you.
Speaker 3: Have to shadow and train, yeah, and really sort of
Speaker 3: prove that you've arrived at the knowledge that you'll need
Speaker 3: to do it. And I and that is what is
Speaker 3: also so incredible about her is so that you know,
Speaker 3: the first episode of Grace that they gave to me.
Speaker 2: They could have been like, oh, let's give her like
Speaker 2: a small little up. She's you know, she hasn't done
Speaker 2: it here before.
Speaker 3: They gave me a huge episode and it was incredible,
Speaker 3: and it was such a you know.
Speaker 2: I I mean, I had.
Speaker 3: A car hitting two of the actors as an I
Speaker 3: had a brick hitting another actor.
Speaker 2: I had a song, I had a birth. I had
Speaker 2: to have a.
Speaker 3: Real baby, but it was COVID, so they weren't kind
Speaker 3: of allowing it, so I had to advocate for that.
Speaker 2: It was, you know, an amazing.
Speaker 3: Storyline about women's reproductive rights. It was a massive episode
Speaker 3: and really thanks to Debbie, I felt very prepared for it,
Speaker 3: and wow, you know, and that also, I think is
Speaker 3: incredibly important, and she understands the importance of not only
Speaker 3: like when it's so hard and everyone says, oh, it's
Speaker 3: better for women, it's better, ways it's still really hard
Speaker 3: for female directors, right, so that when you finally have
Speaker 3: that opportunity, it's it's one thing to have opportunity, it's
Speaker 3: another thing to be prepared and skilled with that opportunity.
Speaker 2: I really feel like, you know, it's Debbie's.
Speaker 3: Knowledge of that that like, you kind of get one
Speaker 3: shot at it, and if you arrive and you don't
Speaker 3: have the skill for it, you might not.
Speaker 2: So she makes sure that.
Speaker 3: When that opportunity, does you know, come knock in that
Speaker 3: you're really prepared. And she's just been an incredible mentor
Speaker 3: and she's just really I mean, you have to know
Speaker 3: your stuff, have done your homework, and it goes back
Speaker 3: to those days of being in that theater program and
Speaker 3: if you're a minute late, you're kicked out.
Speaker 2: It's disciplined, right.
Speaker 3: So I just there's something for me that is so
Speaker 3: incredible to have the sort of years of acting experience
Speaker 3: and to be able to translate that into something that's
Speaker 3: sort of like in the same vein as acting, but
Speaker 3: a totally different medium. I feel like it's like it's
Speaker 3: just like blown my mind and opened up a whole
Speaker 3: other lane for me, which I just I love it.
Speaker 1: That's so cool.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and Kevin was.
Speaker 3: So supportive and Chandra, I mean they were just amazing
Speaker 3: everyone in their own and I mean and that crew,
Speaker 3: I mean, you've got to experience that group. Our crew
Speaker 3: is just amazing. I just really I love them. They
Speaker 3: work so hard. They are there before everyone and after everyone,
Speaker 3: and they give up so much of their family time
Speaker 3: and I really I'm just blown away by each department's
Speaker 3: talent and like we're really Lucky.
Speaker 1: It's incredible. I mean the from the set builds and
Speaker 1: the way that they can accordion down and expand into
Speaker 1: other things. I mean, your lighting rigs, everything. I was like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, this is an amazing place to come
Speaker 1: to work.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a really good, really good group. And to
Speaker 3: see such a you know, and to see so many
Speaker 3: women there too. I mean we've got also incredible female
Speaker 3: DP and she's just amazing. Yeah, and on standing of
Speaker 3: the departments. So that's really great.
Speaker 1: It's really cool. How do you think the show manages
Speaker 1: to stay so fresh because twenty one seasons of material?
Speaker 1: I mean, do you think it's partially because there's never
Speaker 1: a shortage of medical stories? It is there, like secret
Speaker 1: sauce in the water, what is going on over there?
Speaker 3: I feel like it is that thing that we sort
Speaker 3: of touched upon, of the willingness to go to a
Speaker 3: dark side of sort of you know, humanness, and then
Speaker 3: also really show hero moments because a lot of medical
Speaker 3: shows that haven't lasted, you know, and so it's got
Speaker 3: to be something I feel like that Shonda has tapped into. Yeah,
Speaker 3: you know, and I mean the fans are it's a
Speaker 3: lot to do with the fans, and I really, I
Speaker 3: just I think that you know, Shonda was willing to
Speaker 3: take certain risks and do certain things that we then
Speaker 3: carry on throughout the seasons.
Speaker 2: That really just I.
Speaker 3: Mean that is sort of lightning in the bottle, right,
Speaker 3: I mean, amazing medical shows, but for whatever reason, they
Speaker 3: don't stick. And I think I think so many of us,
Speaker 3: you know, you and I have done shows that haven't
Speaker 3: gone on which were like shows, but they just don't
Speaker 3: for some reason they don't connect or or a studio
Speaker 3: or a network hasn't given.
Speaker 2: Its time too. I think that's also.
Speaker 3: A really big thing in terms of you know, times
Speaker 3: have changed, whereas able to evolve, and so too there's
Speaker 3: not as much time.
Speaker 2: So I'm sure those medical shows would have stuck around.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, in terms of grace, I really I
Speaker 3: just feel like, I think the humanity of what all
Speaker 3: of these people are going through and the ability of
Speaker 3: the writers to yes come up with medical stuff. But
Speaker 3: even like the open marriage thing, I'm not sure other
Speaker 3: shows would have tackled that. You know, they would have
Speaker 3: had that thing of like, well is she going to
Speaker 3: be likable?
Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
Speaker 3: Like you and I have heard that and I don't
Speaker 3: know if your fans know.
Speaker 2: What that is.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the likability trap is tough, and female characters in particular,
Speaker 1: no matter what they are, even if their assassins, people
Speaker 1: are like, but is she likable?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: They never asked that about the men.
Speaker 2: They never asked that about men.
Speaker 1: It's so weird.
Speaker 3: And I think that that's what's really cool that Shonda
Speaker 3: and the writers and our showrunner is able to like
Speaker 3: really lean into that and not be afraid of that.
Speaker 1: Wow, that really strikes me as something especially for the fan,
Speaker 1: I think, because it just hit me that you have
Speaker 1: women who run your show, who trust how smart your
Speaker 1: audience is. They're not thinking that the fans are gonna
Speaker 1: suddenly not like a character if she's human, right, Well,
Speaker 1: I mean I think about the pilot of Grace.
Speaker 7: Yeah, how it's Meredith who is like sleeping with Derek
Speaker 7: and then the next morning he's like gotta go, Like
Speaker 7: you know, it's all it's sort of like it.
Speaker 3: It kind of bins the stereotype on its head and yeah,
Speaker 3: afraid and not afraid of it. And I don't know
Speaker 3: how they also are able to have that and still
Speaker 3: and maybe that is because yeah, like you're saying. The
Speaker 3: fans are like, yeah, I relate to that, Like, yeah,
Speaker 3: I you know, I don't.
Speaker 1: Know a human woman exactly what. Yeah, I love it. Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm curious about this because we touched on it a
Speaker 1: little bit. It's fun to go into a surgical scene
Speaker 1: having a little bit of surgical background. You have done
Speaker 1: so much surgery on this show. You have played a
Speaker 1: doctor for so long. How much do you think you
Speaker 1: actually know? Like if there were an emergency scene and
Speaker 1: I was gonna.
Speaker 3: Say, like, I know you, and I like I know
Speaker 3: you after being with you so much this year that
Speaker 3: like I think you actually really absorb that stuff. Like
Speaker 3: I think like if I was on a desert island
Speaker 3: with you, I'd be like, yeah, I want her operating
Speaker 3: on me, like like you.
Speaker 2: I'm I would say I'm really good.
Speaker 3: Like in an emergency situation, I feel like I could
Speaker 3: be a total badass and I want it in my mind.
Speaker 3: I feel like, oh yeah, I could do it. I
Speaker 3: don't know if like the recall of like oh yeah,
Speaker 3: you would be great.
Speaker 8: You'd be like, oh, this is the blobberie blah of
Speaker 8: the ex blobbery blah and you blah blah blah, and
Speaker 8: you would like kind of like all regurgitate all that,
Speaker 8: and I'd be like, yes, I remember.
Speaker 2: Down here where the heart is.
Speaker 1: That is so funny.
Speaker 2: Quite sure did they say to connect these two?
Speaker 4: Like?
Speaker 3: Also, like if I was putting together furniture, you would
Speaker 3: be my first call, right like.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, oh I'm so good at that.
Speaker 2: See like you're you remember all that?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Like you like so, I don't if I had
Speaker 3: to take a medical test, fuck it, forget it, no way.
Speaker 2: But if you showed me the cavity of a.
Speaker 3: Body around cardio like thoracic stuff, because that's all that's
Speaker 3: what Teddy does, I think I could kind of like
Speaker 3: connect some dots.
Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, I like it. There's like paint by Num.
Speaker 3: I did tell the story once in an interview, and
Speaker 3: it's kind of embarrassing, and I'll tell you because I
Speaker 3: think I did tell you. The short version is my
Speaker 3: husband and I are on a plane and you know,
Speaker 3: all of a sudden, we heard ladies and gentlet known
Speaker 3: if there's a doctor on the plank, can you please
Speaker 3: come forward?
Speaker 2: We have a medical emergency. I started to get up.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, just you're subconscious.
Speaker 3: I've never seen him this. He went like green. He
Speaker 3: grabbed my He was like, what are you doing.
Speaker 8: I was like, there's a medical army, because like, you are.
Speaker 2: Not a doctor. And I was saying, I know I'm
Speaker 2: not delusional, but part of me I don't know whether
Speaker 2: there's that part of life. Yeah, I can fix anything.
Speaker 2: I of course I could do this.
Speaker 1: Yeah. By the way, I gotta admit, if I was
Speaker 1: on a plane and they did the thing and no
Speaker 1: one got up, I would get up.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I would. So what do you think, Like,
Speaker 2: could you say I did it?
Speaker 1: Once?
Speaker 2: I told you I did one ye. Yeah.
Speaker 1: It was at a music festival. A girl started having
Speaker 1: an epileptic seizure and I knew what to do. And
Speaker 1: people were like, oh my god, are you a doctor?
Speaker 1: And I was like no, but I I was like,
Speaker 1: what I can't explain right now is why I know
Speaker 1: what to do in this situation. But I do know
Speaker 1: what to do in this situation, and it's like what
Speaker 1: I realize it's probably more honestly, from having been a
Speaker 1: camp counselor and literally having to keep other people's children
Speaker 1: alive and who you are sure I know a lot
Speaker 1: about a lot of things in weird ways. And I
Speaker 1: do think if we were on a plane and there
Speaker 1: was no actual doctor, I'd be honest, It's not like
Speaker 1: I'm going to be like sometimes I know, I'd be like, look,
Speaker 1: I'm not a doctor, but what's going on? Because like,
Speaker 1: I'm CPR certified, and I do have all these other
Speaker 1: fans not that I know how to respond to, so
Speaker 1: let me try to help. My mom gets upset by that.
Speaker 1: She's like, you are the person that if there is
Speaker 1: a disaster, like if if there was an explosion in
Speaker 1: a building, you run toward the building while everyone's running away.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, obviously I'm gonna I'm going to help.
Speaker 1: And she's like, you're my kid, run away, run away
Speaker 1: from the disaster. And I'm like, oh, I see.
Speaker 2: You are a doer and you are a fixer. I mean,
Speaker 2: I mean, do you met.
Speaker 3: I think the first time we actually really met, and
Speaker 3: I'll tell your fans, you were handing out homemade soup
Speaker 3: to the UPS delivery man during COVID.
Speaker 2: I was I was like, I love this woman.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, you're my neighbor.
Speaker 2: Wasn't that the first time?
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, I made soup for JP, he's one you
Speaker 1: gave me, honey, I did.
Speaker 2: Neighborhood, Yeah, neighbors by the way, everyone.
Speaker 1: It's so nice. We have a cute We have a
Speaker 1: cute little zone in the city.
Speaker 2: I'll tell you where it is. But it's a cute now.
Speaker 1: But it's cute, and we do love who are you
Speaker 1: ps man? We do for life? And now a word
Speaker 1: from our sponsors that I really enjoy and I think
Speaker 1: you will too. This is a random question, but because
Speaker 1: you've done the show for so long, I'm curious because
Speaker 1: the answer for me was yes, Have you ever stolen
Speaker 1: anything from the grades set?
Speaker 3: Yes, the first time I left, I stole my scrub cap.
Speaker 2: Cute because it.
Speaker 3: Means there's so much meaning in the hat for Teddy
Speaker 3: with the birds and Alison.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, oh, I love that. I mean I waited
Speaker 1: until we rapped, but I took I did take some things.
Speaker 1: Like The funniest part is that when we wrapped, my
Speaker 1: girlfriend Hillary, who's one of my best friends from that job,
Speaker 1: was not working on the show anymore. She had left
Speaker 1: after the sixth season. So the biggest and most like
Speaker 1: not incognito in any way, shee orformed things that I
Speaker 1: stole were actually for her, Like I stole her this
Speaker 1: chair that had a table attached to it.
Speaker 2: I was just gonna say, did you steal a chair?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like a nineteen fifties telephone chair. And then
Speaker 1: I stole her a lamp.
Speaker 2: Time out time, How did you walk out with a chair?
Speaker 1: I mean, I like drove up to the soundstage and
Speaker 1: just put stuff in the car. Now, in my defense,
Speaker 1: they were selling everything off okay, and I was like,
Speaker 1: I'm going, wait, this is your.
Speaker 2: Show, not for you. Oh, c's just like, how did
Speaker 2: you pull? I thought I stole a chair? Load up
Speaker 2: a chair?
Speaker 1: Could you imagine?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 1: But I did. Actually I took photos. They were redressing
Speaker 1: some set and there were these sconces in boxes and
Speaker 1: I asked the set deck team where they came from,
Speaker 1: and they were like, oh, they're vintage. They're from a
Speaker 1: prop warehouse. So I took photos of them so I
Speaker 1: can try to reverse image search them and see if
Speaker 1: I can find them online anywhere. I wanted to steal them,
Speaker 1: but I wouldn't. No, I wouldn't actually like like steal, steal,
Speaker 1: But I was like, if you're going to sell all
Speaker 1: these things that have immense emotional meaning to me to strangers,
Speaker 1: I'm going to take what I want before the sale.
Speaker 2: That's totally yes.
Speaker 3: I mean they were selling them, they were giving them away.
Speaker 1: That's exactly. That's how I felt about that, exactly. I
Speaker 1: like that you have your scrub cap. That's perfect. I'm
Speaker 1: just realizing how long we've been talking. I could talk
Speaker 1: to you forever. I wish we had a glass of
Speaker 1: wine and we were in the same place.
Speaker 2: Well, we're doing that walk, We're doing.
Speaker 1: That very soon. I will ask you my last and
Speaker 1: favorite question to ask everyone who comes on the show,
Speaker 1: who graces me with their presence, what feels right now
Speaker 1: like your work in progress as a human or in
Speaker 1: any way whatever comes to mind. It can be a
Speaker 1: career thing, a personal thing, anything you want. Oh, oh
Speaker 1: my gosh, so many things. I'm always working on making
Speaker 1: sure the only opinions I listen to come from people
Speaker 1: who matter to me, which in our line of work
Speaker 1: is really hard. I am. I am working on saying
Speaker 1: no to more things because I want to say yes
Speaker 1: to everything. I want to do everything for everyone. I
Speaker 1: want to get on every zoom, I want to help
Speaker 1: with every project, and I just don't actually have enough
Speaker 1: hours in the day. So I'm trying to get better
Speaker 1: at saying no carefully and I am I am constantly
Speaker 1: working on letting how happy I finally am in my
Speaker 1: life really hit me and that feels nice.
Speaker 3: And I think that comes from learning how to love oneself,
Speaker 3: because if we learned how to love oneself, then we
Speaker 3: can accept the love from the other.
Speaker 2: Does that make sense?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Maybe, I think it's kind of a great thing.
Speaker 3: Those are all amazing and beautiful. Thank you for sharing that.
Speaker 2: I think.
Speaker 3: I think really continuing sort of following this directorial pathway.
Speaker 1: I cool.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really.
Speaker 3: It's just something that I I.
Speaker 2: Just love that.
Speaker 3: I mean, for me, that moment when the first time
Speaker 3: where you know, I had for at least the grades
Speaker 3: one where I sat at home and I was kind
Speaker 3: of figuring out how to do this new thing, and
Speaker 3: then I was at the game Boy, which for your
Speaker 3: it's the one you have the three I know, you know,
Speaker 3: but for your fans when you have like the three
Speaker 3: screens and you can see the three camera shooting it,
Speaker 3: and it was like it was like all of a
Speaker 3: sudden like being a diver underwater in the ocean and
Speaker 3: seeing all of these things that I had never seen before,
Speaker 3: so it like opened up like this whole world for me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'm just so.
Speaker 3: I just feel like there's I'm so blown away by
Speaker 3: it and I feel like there's so much to learn.
Speaker 3: And what's so exciting to me is to sort of
Speaker 3: find something within the field that I do that I love.
Speaker 2: But that's like blowing my mind.
Speaker 3: And I I love that like where I am in
Speaker 3: my life and my career, that I can find something
Speaker 3: that really turns me on and excites me and terrifies me,
Speaker 3: you know, not sure what the path is, and to
Speaker 3: really kind of lean into that.
Speaker 2: And and I think.
Speaker 3: I think something all so that I'm I'm like working
Speaker 3: on is similar saying no, but it's like voicing when
Speaker 3: something is is uncomfortable or not working.
Speaker 2: For me, I'm so.
Speaker 3: Used to, you know, being in agreement and you know,
Speaker 3: and I think directing is also helping me find my
Speaker 3: voice in that because when you're directing, you have to
Speaker 3: lead the troops, but for me also in a very
Speaker 3: collaborative way. So I think I'm trying to translate that
Speaker 3: into my life of instead of, like you said, sort
Speaker 3: of saying yes to everything. It also, as women were
Speaker 3: taught to, especially in this business, to not you know,
Speaker 3: rock the boat, don't you know, don't make any waves,
Speaker 3: don't you know? And you have to find all of
Speaker 3: these ways to kind of like like pretzel your way
Speaker 3: through the thing because you don't want to like be
Speaker 3: difficult or be labeled in any or. And I think
Speaker 3: what's been so interesting about directing is it enables me
Speaker 3: to sort of speak up to what and believe in
Speaker 3: my own vision and whether it's right or wrong doesn't matter.
Speaker 3: What matters is sort of the collaborative vision that I
Speaker 3: have and believing that that is of importance. So that
Speaker 3: is kind of blow my life and as well as
Speaker 3: like into my vision creatively.
Speaker 2: So that's sort of what I'm working on.
Speaker 1: I love that. That's beautiful. Thank you for sharing, yeah,
Speaker 1: and thank you for coming to hang with us today.
Speaker 2: Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1: I know all the fans are so amped to hear
Speaker 1: from you, and it's been such a joy to come
Speaker 1: and play on your show.
Speaker 3: I know having you too is a real gift. You're, just,
Speaker 3: like I keep saying to everyone, such an intelligent, collaborative, unique, talented,
Speaker 3: amazing human beings. So it's just been such an amazing
Speaker 3: amazing season, and I hope we have more stuff together.
Speaker 1: I do too, fingers crossed. Yeah, thanks Cassidy Forever.
Speaker 2: That's so cute.
Speaker 1: Sorry cutie, thank you, Enjoy the rest of your day.
Speaker 2: Thanks Anny.
Speaker 1: Bye,