1 00:00:04,720 --> 00:00:12,879 Speaker 1: Mother Knows Death presents External Exams with Nicole and Jimmy. 2 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:19,799 Speaker 2: Hi, guys, today, I want to introduce Her name is 3 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:23,599 Speaker 2: Lindsay Cotton and she is a sexual assault nurse examiner 4 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:27,040 Speaker 2: and medical legal death investigator. Did I get that correct? 5 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:27,680 Speaker 1: You did? 6 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:31,680 Speaker 2: Okay? Awesome? So I have a bunch of questions to 7 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:35,720 Speaker 2: ask you, obviously, but maybe it would be better if 8 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:38,960 Speaker 2: you just started by telling us a little bit about 9 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 2: what you do for a living. 10 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:44,440 Speaker 1: Okay, Well, first of all, I'm a registered nurse. I've 11 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:46,800 Speaker 1: got my VSN and I've been a nurse for about 12 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 1: eleven years. I'm in Nurse practitioner school right now to 13 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:55,720 Speaker 1: further my education. My background primarily has been working in 14 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:59,320 Speaker 1: the emergency room, and during that time I became a 15 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:04,040 Speaker 1: Saint nurse, which is sexual assault nurse examiner, and what 16 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:06,280 Speaker 1: that means is I'm taking care of victims of sexual 17 00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:10,880 Speaker 1: assault that present to the emergency room, and in that capacity, 18 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:14,679 Speaker 1: I'm considered a forensic nurse. But within the last year 19 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 1: and a half I've broad into that and the county 20 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:21,199 Speaker 1: that I live in created a forensic nurse position and 21 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:24,720 Speaker 1: I had to get my MDI, which is medical legal 22 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:29,440 Speaker 1: death investigator. Certification as well. So I'm under the umbrella 23 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:32,800 Speaker 1: of the District Attorney's office, and I work for the county, 24 00:01:32,959 --> 00:01:35,480 Speaker 1: and I work with all of our law enforcement agencies, 25 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:40,720 Speaker 1: and so I kind of wear two hats. So broadly speaking, 26 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:43,280 Speaker 1: the forendic nurse could mean a lot depending on where 27 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:45,520 Speaker 1: you live and work, but for me, it means I 28 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:47,960 Speaker 1: work both as a saying and an MDI. 29 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:52,600 Speaker 2: Okay, this is so exciting for me to hear about 30 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:55,440 Speaker 2: this because well, as of right now, I don't think 31 00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:59,360 Speaker 2: Philadelphia has a position like that, and I think it's 32 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 2: cool that they're deciding to bring in other health professionals 33 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:07,320 Speaker 2: besides just doctors. So that's cool. So one of the 34 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 2: questions I had for you was what education you needed 35 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:15,560 Speaker 2: for this job? And obviously you're already You're a bsn 36 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:20,600 Speaker 2: correct you said. Okay, So basically, if anybody was a 37 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 2: nurse right now and they wanted to do this, they could. 38 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:27,000 Speaker 2: They already have their degree. You have to just take 39 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:30,760 Speaker 2: an additional certification exam to be a saint that that's 40 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:31,400 Speaker 2: what you're saying. 41 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:35,080 Speaker 1: So it depends on the state. Every state is different, 42 00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:37,440 Speaker 1: and in my state you have to take a forty 43 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:40,800 Speaker 1: hour course to become a saane and they divide it 44 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:46,440 Speaker 1: up between adult and adolescent and pediatric, so you could 45 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:49,800 Speaker 1: do both, or you could just do one because some 46 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:52,480 Speaker 1: people don't like peds or some people love peds and 47 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:55,639 Speaker 1: that's all they want to do. So I started out 48 00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:58,400 Speaker 1: with that training and at the time, my hospital that 49 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:02,280 Speaker 1: I worked for paid for that, and from there you 50 00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:09,079 Speaker 1: can become certified through your state and internationally for the 51 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:12,600 Speaker 1: NDI portion the death investigator. You don't have to be 52 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:15,200 Speaker 1: a nurse for that. They actually use a lot of 53 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:19,600 Speaker 1: it's cross training for law enforcement officers, so a lot 54 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:23,720 Speaker 1: of them will be cops and death investigators. And so 55 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:26,640 Speaker 1: that is also another forty hour course put on through 56 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:30,000 Speaker 1: our state. And then you're appointed by your district attorney 57 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:33,799 Speaker 1: to be the medical legal death investigator. You're also appointed 58 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:36,840 Speaker 1: by the medical examiner, so it's a little bit more 59 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:40,440 Speaker 1: formal process, and then at that point you can work 60 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 1: and the state that I live in, every county is 61 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 1: totally different. I'm one of just a handful of urns 62 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 1: that do this job. So I think it makes sense 63 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:54,320 Speaker 1: that a nurse or a medical person would work this job. 64 00:03:55,520 --> 00:04:00,440 Speaker 1: In terms of death investigation, there's so much complimentary knowledge 65 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 1: that you have as a nurse and a death investigator 66 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:05,680 Speaker 1: that law enforcement just won't have. They'll look at it 67 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 1: more from a criminal lens, whereas we're looking at it 68 00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 1: from a death lens or medical, like what caused this 69 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:15,720 Speaker 1: person to die? And so we just asked totally different questions. 70 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:20,279 Speaker 1: And I think that the trend should be that nurses 71 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:23,520 Speaker 1: get to do this job more and more than traditionally have. 72 00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:26,240 Speaker 2: I agree with you. I used to feel the same 73 00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:30,920 Speaker 2: way because we as a pathology pathologists assistant students rotated 74 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:34,880 Speaker 2: through the m's office, but they didn't actually employ pathologists 75 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:38,760 Speaker 2: assistant and I thought that that was really interesting because 76 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:41,599 Speaker 2: all of the people that were forensic texts there were 77 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:45,760 Speaker 2: just high school educated and didn't really have any knowledge 78 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:48,359 Speaker 2: of medicine. And I thought, how awesome it would be 79 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:52,400 Speaker 2: to have a medical person cutting the bodies and finding 80 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:54,360 Speaker 2: things along the way to help the doctors because they 81 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:59,280 Speaker 2: seem so overwhelmed with all the cases and everything. So, yeah, 82 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 2: I totally with you. So one of the things there 83 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:05,919 Speaker 2: are questions I like to ask because this was a 84 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:09,480 Speaker 2: big thing when I went to PA School. When when 85 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 2: I went to PA School, you graduate and you get 86 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:15,159 Speaker 2: a job and then there's no jobs, right because there's 87 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:18,719 Speaker 2: not that many pas in the world compared to like nurses. Right, 88 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 2: So are there a lot of opportunities for forensic nurses? 89 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:26,960 Speaker 2: Do you do you know if they're available or have 90 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:28,520 Speaker 2: you heard of jobs opening? 91 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:36,839 Speaker 1: I I think the answer, unfortunately is no. In my state, 92 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:40,480 Speaker 1: it's so unique. The job that I have, I just 93 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:44,560 Speaker 1: happened to come across it and was the most qualified applicant. 94 00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:51,279 Speaker 1: I really created the death investigation programs from nothing. Before me, 95 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:56,440 Speaker 1: there was a death investigator that again was more law 96 00:05:56,520 --> 00:06:01,720 Speaker 1: enforcement trained, and so he just did things totally different, 97 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:04,480 Speaker 1: and I just saw a lot of opportunity to create 98 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:07,840 Speaker 1: something new. So I think that if somebody's interested, they 99 00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:12,800 Speaker 1: might have to just be entrepreneurial and very persistent with 100 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:19,760 Speaker 1: their EM's office or their DA's office and voice why 101 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:22,880 Speaker 1: they would be good at creating something like what I 102 00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:27,240 Speaker 1: have here, And if anyone's interested in that, they could 103 00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:31,120 Speaker 1: always reach out to me. I think you need a 104 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:34,080 Speaker 1: lot of support from various different agencies to do that. 105 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 1: So if it doesn't already exist, you're going to have 106 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:42,159 Speaker 1: to get creative. Somebody could apply for the Medical Examiner's office. 107 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:44,760 Speaker 1: Maybe to get their foot in the door. But I 108 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:47,960 Speaker 1: think as a saying nurse, that's the biggest area where 109 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 1: you'd have the most opportunity to get started, because hopefully 110 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:55,280 Speaker 1: one day every single emergency department's going to have a 111 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:59,479 Speaker 1: sane program. We're nowhere near that at all right now. 112 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 1: There's a lot of areas that don't have a forensically 113 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 1: trained nurse to take care of them if they've been 114 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:08,039 Speaker 1: sexually assaulted. But I mean, broadly speaking, the area of 115 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:11,400 Speaker 1: forensics is huge. Like, if you live in a metropolitan 116 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:13,920 Speaker 1: area and you're a forensic nurse and you have saying 117 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:17,560 Speaker 1: and MDI training, you could go into every single patient 118 00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:21,240 Speaker 1: that might be a domestic violence victim, go in and 119 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:28,640 Speaker 1: do an assessment. You could do strangulation assessment, pediatric abuse assessment, 120 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:32,960 Speaker 1: I mean elderly abuse and neglect. I mean it literally 121 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:38,200 Speaker 1: spans the lifespan. I've caught a lot of elderly neglect 122 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:42,400 Speaker 1: death cases where law enforcement thinks, oh, this person's old 123 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:45,080 Speaker 1: and they just died at home and it's nothing suspicious, 124 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 1: and I review the scene photos and the report and 125 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:51,160 Speaker 1: I think, oh, hell no, this is this is suspicious, 126 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 1: and we died into it, and we see they had, 127 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 1: you know, coint court appointed caregiver, somebody that's legally responsible 128 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:01,440 Speaker 1: for them and they're doing their job and this person 129 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:06,040 Speaker 1: died from hypothermia, for example. And we've had a couple 130 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:09,960 Speaker 1: of those kind of cases, and it's it's it's a 131 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 1: huge area that has a lot of potential for growth, 132 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:15,000 Speaker 1: but we're not quite there yet. 133 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:19,280 Speaker 2: That's that's really interesting. I think you're really onto something, 134 00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:21,720 Speaker 2: and it makes me really excited to hear that you're 135 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:25,040 Speaker 2: kind of creating that. I really just from a person 136 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:28,800 Speaker 2: that was heavily involved with the Emmy's office, I see 137 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:32,720 Speaker 2: your position as a nurse being so valuable that I 138 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:36,080 Speaker 2: think you're onto something for sure. So I think that's 139 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:39,200 Speaker 2: really cool that you're I mean, it sucks that you 140 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:43,720 Speaker 2: have this job that is so dreamy that everybody can't 141 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:47,439 Speaker 2: just go get right, but but you're starting it. You're 142 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:50,839 Speaker 2: starting a movement, and it's really cool. So I guess 143 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:52,600 Speaker 2: that was one of the questions I had for you 144 00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 2: when you were working in the er. You were just 145 00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:57,920 Speaker 2: working as an er nurse, and then they would call 146 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:01,080 Speaker 2: you in for those specific cases because obviously you're not 147 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:03,880 Speaker 2: just sitting around twiddling your thumbs. And waiting for them 148 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:04,400 Speaker 2: to come in. 149 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 1: Right. Yeah, I've seen it done two different ways. You 150 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:12,160 Speaker 1: could either be an er nurse working your normal shift, 151 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:15,320 Speaker 1: and then if a sane patient comes in, you go 152 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:17,360 Speaker 1: one to one with that patient for a few hours, 153 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:21,240 Speaker 1: and another nurse picks up your patients and then you 154 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:23,680 Speaker 1: know with that you're not there's no perk in terms 155 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 1: of extra pay, You're just you're already on shift. So 156 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:29,679 Speaker 1: you've just got a different patient load. But that's difficult 157 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:33,199 Speaker 1: because if the ear is busy and understaffed, which they 158 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:36,840 Speaker 1: always are, always are, Yeah, that's gonna be hard. And 159 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 1: so now a lot of hospital systems are moving towards 160 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:44,640 Speaker 1: a third party. So there are sane companies that train 161 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:48,200 Speaker 1: their sane nurses and provide twenty four to seven coverage. 162 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:50,240 Speaker 1: And that's what I do here. So I work for 163 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:53,680 Speaker 1: company and I cover two different counties and we all 164 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:56,600 Speaker 1: share twenty four to seven call. It's a very flexible 165 00:09:56,600 --> 00:09:58,800 Speaker 1: work schedule and I choose when I want to work 166 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:02,440 Speaker 1: and it's it's either twelve or twenty four hour shifts. 167 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 1: And I'll just get a call from something called medical Messenger. 168 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:11,000 Speaker 1: They'll call and say, hey, there's a thirty six year 169 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:15,559 Speaker 1: old female at the certain hospital and they were assaulted, 170 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:19,880 Speaker 1: you know, two days ago. And then we go in 171 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:22,280 Speaker 1: and so we will go in and take over for 172 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:27,320 Speaker 1: that nurse as the forensic nurse and do our exam, 173 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:32,040 Speaker 1: make recommendations on medications, share that with the physician, and 174 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:35,600 Speaker 1: then the doctor will order whatever we decide we'll be 175 00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:39,520 Speaker 1: giving that patient. And then at that point our job 176 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:41,720 Speaker 1: is done, and then the ear nurse takes over to 177 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:44,880 Speaker 1: medicate that patient and discharge. So we kind of work 178 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:48,280 Speaker 1: hand in hand, but it's a lot more I think 179 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:52,600 Speaker 1: time cost effective and time effective because sometimes you'll get 180 00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:56,200 Speaker 1: two calls, you know, one after the other, and so 181 00:10:56,280 --> 00:10:58,320 Speaker 1: I'll be at a hospital taking care of somebody and 182 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:00,760 Speaker 1: then there's another patient that's showed upwhere else, and so 183 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:04,440 Speaker 1: we'll have to decide can it wait until I'm done, 184 00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:07,000 Speaker 1: or we just have a huge pool of nurses we 185 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:09,640 Speaker 1: can call from and say, hey, is anyone ready to 186 00:11:09,679 --> 00:11:10,240 Speaker 1: pick this up? 187 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:14,720 Speaker 2: Okay, that's cool. So when you go see these patients 188 00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:17,680 Speaker 2: in the hospital, are you the one that's actually collecting 189 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:19,480 Speaker 2: the specimens from them? 190 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:21,000 Speaker 1: Yeah? 191 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:26,400 Speaker 2: And so what during your training you learn exactly, you know, 192 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:30,320 Speaker 2: what would you do take fingernail scrapings. Would you do 193 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:32,520 Speaker 2: that on a person that's live still. 194 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:37,400 Speaker 1: Or yeah, so again, and that it depends on where 195 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:41,760 Speaker 1: you live. They'll have different expectations. But so for the 196 00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:45,000 Speaker 1: state that I'm in, I can respond up to one 197 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:47,880 Speaker 1: hundred and twenty hours after someone's been assaulted. So that's 198 00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:51,800 Speaker 1: five days. That is the number that we use to 199 00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:55,800 Speaker 1: decide if we still have a chance of collecting forensic evidence. 200 00:11:56,400 --> 00:12:01,000 Speaker 1: And I think nationwide that's pretty standard. So five days. 201 00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:03,319 Speaker 1: If somebody is sexually assaulted, they could come into the 202 00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:07,160 Speaker 1: er say hey, I was sexually assaulted, and they may 203 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:09,720 Speaker 1: or may not want to report to law enforcement. Again, 204 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:12,560 Speaker 1: that's jurisdictional and it depends. It depends on the age 205 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:15,040 Speaker 1: and a whole bunch of other factors, but fits your 206 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:19,480 Speaker 1: average sexual assault patient. Then I would come in and 207 00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:24,520 Speaker 1: do a thorough interview. So I would be asking first 208 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:27,480 Speaker 1: of all, all the medical questions, like I want to 209 00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:30,520 Speaker 1: know about their medical history just from a nursing perspective, 210 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:34,920 Speaker 1: the things that are important, And then I'll ask what 211 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 1: they can remember happen to them. And I'm writing everything down, 212 00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:43,760 Speaker 1: I'm using quotations, I'm being as objective as possible. And 213 00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:47,640 Speaker 1: so there's a chart that we use. It's either paper 214 00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:50,600 Speaker 1: or on the computer. It's about sixteen pages, so it's 215 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:52,720 Speaker 1: long and it does take a couple of hours. But 216 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:56,240 Speaker 1: I'm just writing down everything they can remember, and that 217 00:12:56,760 --> 00:13:02,360 Speaker 1: helps dictate the physical exam. If they remember certain things 218 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:05,840 Speaker 1: like I was pushed down, or I was held down 219 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:09,240 Speaker 1: by my wrists, or I was choked, those are areas 220 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:12,959 Speaker 1: where there might be potential DNA, and that will be 221 00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:17,559 Speaker 1: where I swab with sterile Q tips. I will use 222 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:21,720 Speaker 1: an ultimate light source to look when it's dark with 223 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:24,560 Speaker 1: this particular light to see if there's body fluids that eliminate. 224 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:29,680 Speaker 1: I will look at them literally had to toe and 225 00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:32,880 Speaker 1: mark any kind of anything and you kind of bruise 226 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:37,480 Speaker 1: the area of pain abrasion. I will do a peltic 227 00:13:37,559 --> 00:13:43,320 Speaker 1: exam and same thing. Document anywhere there's pain. If there's 228 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:46,200 Speaker 1: something that I see, like maybe a hair that doesn't match, 229 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:51,680 Speaker 1: or one time I saw literally dirt in somebody's vaginal wall, 230 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:56,600 Speaker 1: I swapped that. And even if they don't remember anything, 231 00:13:56,760 --> 00:13:59,560 Speaker 1: there's pretty much a standard process that all of us 232 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:03,760 Speaker 1: will use because if you think about a rape, there's 233 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:08,000 Speaker 1: likely going to be saliva or DNA transfer from aggressive 234 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:13,000 Speaker 1: handling on somebody's neck or breasts or wrists or thighs 235 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:15,240 Speaker 1: for example. So there's a lot of swabs that we 236 00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:19,520 Speaker 1: get just no matter what, oral swabs for a DNA 237 00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:21,920 Speaker 1: standard or there might be saliva or seen in there. 238 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:25,760 Speaker 1: We asked questions like when was the last time you 239 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:28,920 Speaker 1: had consensual sex? Because maybe that somebody has a partner 240 00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:31,200 Speaker 1: that they just had sex with four days ago and 241 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:34,320 Speaker 1: that was consensual, but two days ago they were raped, 242 00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:36,960 Speaker 1: and so now there could be different DNA from two 243 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:39,640 Speaker 1: different people there, and that's important for the forensic lab 244 00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:39,920 Speaker 1: to know. 245 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:44,600 Speaker 2: Wow, this is so this is really interesting because I 246 00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 2: obviously I don't take care of live patients, so I 247 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:49,920 Speaker 2: just never I've always been curious about this stuff. So 248 00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:54,520 Speaker 2: on average, and I know it probably varies from place 249 00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:58,000 Speaker 2: to place, but I mean, how many of these types 250 00:14:58,040 --> 00:15:02,160 Speaker 2: of sexual assaults do you see in a week or 251 00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:04,200 Speaker 2: just on average? 252 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:07,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, the area, it's it's so hard to say 253 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:12,760 Speaker 1: because I share call with about maybe twelve to fourteen 254 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:16,000 Speaker 1: other nurses, and so I only know what I see. 255 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:19,120 Speaker 1: I get called a couple of times a month, and 256 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:22,920 Speaker 1: that's when I see everybody. So I see ages zero 257 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:26,600 Speaker 1: to one hundred, I mean pedes, adolescents, adults. I'm trained 258 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:31,560 Speaker 1: for all of that, So definitely a handful of month. 259 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:34,080 Speaker 1: I don't know what our numbers are for last year. 260 00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:37,920 Speaker 1: That's a great question, and I'm curious. But I live 261 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:40,240 Speaker 1: in more of a rural area and so it's not 262 00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:43,080 Speaker 1: going to be as high as like Portland, Oregon, for example, 263 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:47,600 Speaker 1: or me or something like that. So but of the 264 00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:52,000 Speaker 1: ones that we see, I mean, it's just different every 265 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:56,080 Speaker 1: single time. You always learn something. When you're done. We 266 00:15:56,160 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 1: do a lot of peer review and share things that 267 00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:03,440 Speaker 1: are helpful to each other because you know it's hit 268 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:06,480 Speaker 1: and miss or feast or famine. I always say, it's 269 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:08,040 Speaker 1: like you could go a couple of months without a 270 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 1: call and then you start to feel rusty. So we 271 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:13,920 Speaker 1: do a lot of meetings with the team and share 272 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:18,640 Speaker 1: forensic photos that are important. And I mean, pediatrics is 273 00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:21,520 Speaker 1: a whole other beast in terms of trying to do 274 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:24,760 Speaker 1: an exam like that on a toddler, for example, a baby, 275 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:30,440 Speaker 1: Like it's just it's so hard and then you're dealing 276 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:34,720 Speaker 1: with the parents and the emotions that come with that. 277 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:37,880 Speaker 2: So yeah, that was one of my questions. I had 278 00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:41,920 Speaker 2: for you. I was always able to disconnect from the 279 00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:46,160 Speaker 2: pediatric autopsies at Children's Hospital, but when I went to 280 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:50,240 Speaker 2: the eme's office and saw abuse and kids getting killed 281 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:54,000 Speaker 2: by for even car accidents, it really kind of fucked 282 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:57,400 Speaker 2: me up. Yeah, so I was, But I know that 283 00:16:57,440 --> 00:17:01,360 Speaker 2: there's people that are designed to fit every aspect of 284 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:04,199 Speaker 2: this world. That's what makes it great. Right. Do you 285 00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:08,480 Speaker 2: have what case would bring more emotion to you? Have 286 00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:11,800 Speaker 2: you ever had any kind of emotion because you have 287 00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:14,000 Speaker 2: to be in the room like the squared away one 288 00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:17,960 Speaker 2: that's just that's doing your job and not get distracted 289 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:20,560 Speaker 2: by that stuff. But have have you ever had any 290 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:24,160 Speaker 2: cases that make you feel emotional or you think about 291 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:26,160 Speaker 2: all night when you go home or something like that. 292 00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:30,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, I do. 293 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:35,960 Speaker 2: I mean, trust listen, I get it because I'm able 294 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:39,600 Speaker 2: to turn it off like and have no emotions most 295 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:42,240 Speaker 2: of the time. But yeah, I could recall a few 296 00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:46,040 Speaker 2: cases that I was that you know, a baby that 297 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:48,639 Speaker 2: died on Christmas Eve or something, you know, just like 298 00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:52,199 Speaker 2: things like that that I go home and it stays 299 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:55,240 Speaker 2: in my mind when normally I'm pretty desensitized to it. 300 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:58,000 Speaker 2: I get that you have to disconnect for your job. 301 00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:01,520 Speaker 1: I know I do have some that come to mind, 302 00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:06,840 Speaker 1: for sure, and I think I compartmentalized pretty well, but 303 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:08,960 Speaker 1: you just can't help some of those that stick in 304 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:13,840 Speaker 1: your mind that are just like extra horrifically sad and unnecessary. 305 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:18,320 Speaker 1: And I think that the ones that are the worst 306 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:21,159 Speaker 1: are the ones where there's just obvious signs of abuse 307 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:24,800 Speaker 1: and neglect combined with the sexual abuse, because it's just 308 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:28,280 Speaker 1: all the things that are so terrible for this kid. 309 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:32,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so it just sucks that we live in 310 00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:34,400 Speaker 2: a world like this. You just don't want to think 311 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:38,560 Speaker 2: that anybody would, especially a child. It's just yeah, so gross. 312 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:43,880 Speaker 2: But how did you So you did you start off 313 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:47,960 Speaker 2: school like you did RN and BSN. You've gone through 314 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:50,600 Speaker 2: this whole thing. So you were an RN and were 315 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:54,639 Speaker 2: even a BSM prior to even taking the certification for sane. 316 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:58,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was a BSN right from the start. So 317 00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:01,000 Speaker 1: when I first said nurse, I just got my four 318 00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:02,919 Speaker 1: year out of the way and then went into the 319 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:05,760 Speaker 1: er and then my second year as nursing as when 320 00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:07,879 Speaker 1: I became a sane. So I've done it for a 321 00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:08,320 Speaker 1: long time. 322 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:10,800 Speaker 2: So you've based you've always been an R nurse that's 323 00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:14,000 Speaker 2: all you ever like what I guess the question I'm 324 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:17,879 Speaker 2: getting at is how did you know that this was 325 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:20,960 Speaker 2: because you seem like this is a good fit for you. 326 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:23,760 Speaker 2: You're very you're you're very into it and you're gonna 327 00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 2: make changes in the field, and I love that. So 328 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:30,119 Speaker 2: how did you know that that's something that was going 329 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:32,240 Speaker 2: to be your, like your thing? 330 00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:38,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, I I wouldn't say I was interested in forensics Initially. 331 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:40,480 Speaker 1: I always knew I wanted to do the er because 332 00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:43,800 Speaker 1: I thought the adrenaline is great. It totally suits me. 333 00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:47,720 Speaker 1: I'm cool, calm, and collected ninety nine percent of the time, 334 00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:51,280 Speaker 1: and it just it was also an area where I 335 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:53,159 Speaker 1: like taking care of people, but I don't want to 336 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:55,000 Speaker 1: take care of them for days and days and days. 337 00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:57,280 Speaker 1: I like when they come in and then they leave. 338 00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:00,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's good, right. 339 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:04,760 Speaker 1: And the same thing came about just because we didn't 340 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:07,240 Speaker 1: have that coverage in our county and so our manager 341 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:10,080 Speaker 1: asked everybody, Hey, does anybody want to do this? And 342 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:12,479 Speaker 1: I volunteered. So I think three or four of us 343 00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:16,280 Speaker 1: went and got trained at And at first I thought 344 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:21,800 Speaker 1: that was like just a lot, because I'd never had 345 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:25,439 Speaker 1: I don't think I'd had any sane patients at that point. 346 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:30,600 Speaker 1: And the training is just incredibly heavy. It is so sad, 347 00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:34,400 Speaker 1: and and it just has to be that way. There's 348 00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:38,400 Speaker 1: no other way to get somebody prepared to appropriately take 349 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:42,120 Speaker 1: care of a rape victim than case studies and pictures 350 00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:44,399 Speaker 1: and examples of like the worst of the worst. So 351 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:47,400 Speaker 1: it was definitely eye opening. But then once you start 352 00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:50,600 Speaker 1: taking care of your first couple of patients, I was 353 00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:54,159 Speaker 1: just I loved it. I was I was like, I 354 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 1: felt like I did a good job because I was 355 00:20:56,040 --> 00:21:00,440 Speaker 1: able to empathize but also be objective and just take 356 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:04,439 Speaker 1: good care of them. And I know that also most 357 00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:07,639 Speaker 1: people say I could never do that, and those are 358 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:09,960 Speaker 1: the people I don't want taking care of those patients. 359 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:12,400 Speaker 1: It's got to be the select few that are meant 360 00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:14,160 Speaker 1: to do that kind of work. And there's a lot 361 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:18,680 Speaker 1: of times where we'll get nurses totally trained up and 362 00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:21,639 Speaker 1: it's deer in headlights for them, and they do a 363 00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:24,760 Speaker 1: couple of exams just shadowing, and they'll say, I can't 364 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:28,080 Speaker 1: do this, And to me, that's no big loss, because 365 00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:30,640 Speaker 1: you don't. If you think you can't do it, then 366 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:32,480 Speaker 1: you can't do it. And I don't want you taking 367 00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:34,919 Speaker 1: care of patients like that when they're going to be 368 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:38,600 Speaker 1: so vulnerable and emotional and maybe altered. I mean, you 369 00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 1: just have to be the best you can to take 370 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:43,639 Speaker 1: care of them in that moment, because you're also going 371 00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:47,880 Speaker 1: to have other healthcare providers, doctors, law enforcement that are 372 00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:50,080 Speaker 1: going to have an attitude towards people like this. And 373 00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:53,679 Speaker 1: I see it still more than i'd like to, where 374 00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:57,439 Speaker 1: somebody has an attitude like, well, if she wasn't so drunk, 375 00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:01,040 Speaker 1: maybe that wouldn't have happened, you know, or whatever she 376 00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:07,080 Speaker 1: was wearing like that wouldn't have happened, or it's suggestive 377 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:09,920 Speaker 1: or something, and that's just that's bullshit. So if anybody 378 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:12,440 Speaker 1: has that kind of attitude towards somebody like that, then 379 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:15,000 Speaker 1: screw that and they shouldn't be taking care of patients 380 00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:15,320 Speaker 1: at all. 381 00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:19,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true, because there's actually a case, I don't know, 382 00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:22,239 Speaker 2: I'm sure you've heard of it, that there was an 383 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:26,560 Speaker 2: LSU student that was raped by two I think it 384 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:30,120 Speaker 2: was two fellow college students and then she got out 385 00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:32,080 Speaker 2: of they let her out of the car on the street, 386 00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:34,240 Speaker 2: and then a car drove by and like killed her. 387 00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:40,240 Speaker 2: I don't know if it just happened recently, but yeah, 388 00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:43,840 Speaker 2: the defense team is obviously trying to say that she 389 00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:46,840 Speaker 2: was drunk, and they have proof that she you know, 390 00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:50,320 Speaker 2: it just it really pisses me off, and from a 391 00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:53,439 Speaker 2: mother's perspective of sending your kid away to college. But 392 00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:57,080 Speaker 2: in a case like that, for example, because you're talking 393 00:22:57,080 --> 00:22:59,639 Speaker 2: about a lot like taking care of live people and stuff, 394 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:04,480 Speaker 2: but case like that, would you be involved with collecting 395 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:08,600 Speaker 2: specimens for the autopsy too, or you only deal with 396 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:09,240 Speaker 2: live people. 397 00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:12,800 Speaker 1: No, I could totally do it on a decedent. But 398 00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:17,119 Speaker 1: I had a case a while back where it was 399 00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:20,240 Speaker 1: somebody that committed to a side a female, a young female. 400 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:26,439 Speaker 1: And you know, suicide's a hard concept for people to grasp, 401 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:30,720 Speaker 1: and especially family to understand why somebody does that. And 402 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:34,359 Speaker 1: I got a call from a family member begging me 403 00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:40,159 Speaker 1: to do a saane exam on her daughter just because 404 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:42,240 Speaker 1: she thought, well, maybe she was raped and that's why 405 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:44,879 Speaker 1: she killed herself, and she just didn't. She was looking 406 00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:47,760 Speaker 1: for a reason, and I get that, But what it 407 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:52,520 Speaker 1: came down to is there was no no anything to 408 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:58,560 Speaker 1: lead us to believe that she was sexually assaulted or 409 00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:01,760 Speaker 1: touched or anything. There was just history there and it 410 00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:03,639 Speaker 1: wasn't enough for us to be able to do a 411 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:06,240 Speaker 1: sane exam. But it brought up the question, and so 412 00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:09,880 Speaker 1: I started asking other death investigators around me and even 413 00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:14,040 Speaker 1: our state medical examiner, do you ever do sain kits 414 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:19,240 Speaker 1: on someone's that's deceased. And the collective answer was pretty 415 00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:23,240 Speaker 1: much no. I mean, because as soon as somebody dies, 416 00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:27,919 Speaker 1: their tissues are deteriorating and things are changing, you're going 417 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:30,560 Speaker 1: to lose evidence if the body's then moved and put 418 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:33,840 Speaker 1: into a body bag and transported. I mean, there's just 419 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:36,600 Speaker 1: so many factors that come into play when somebody's dead 420 00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:40,000 Speaker 1: that it would be difficult to do a proper scene exam. 421 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:43,879 Speaker 1: And also just manipulating the tissues. I mean, you know 422 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:46,320 Speaker 1: what a body feels like when they're dead. It would 423 00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:50,280 Speaker 1: be really hard. And I was told also that using 424 00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:54,639 Speaker 1: those que tits to collect evidence on tissue where the 425 00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:56,560 Speaker 1: person is dead, you're just going to get a lot 426 00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:59,920 Speaker 1: of that other gunk on there that's not It would 427 00:24:59,920 --> 00:25:04,560 Speaker 1: be hard for the Friends of Glad to do whatever 428 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:08,280 Speaker 1: it is that they do, So I just in my experience, 429 00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:11,520 Speaker 1: it's not been done, and our emmy made it sound 430 00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:16,240 Speaker 1: like it would be very unlikely to happen. But Okay, 431 00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:17,480 Speaker 1: that's just my experience. 432 00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:22,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, I understand that. So but if there was a 433 00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:25,600 Speaker 2: they did an autopsy on someone and there were clear 434 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:29,160 Speaker 2: signs of sexual assault, then they then in those cases 435 00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:31,320 Speaker 2: they would do that obviously. 436 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:34,199 Speaker 1: Yeah, and we do have kits available in the works, 437 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:37,560 Speaker 1: so they must be there for a reason. But yeah, 438 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:40,520 Speaker 1: I don't see why you couldn't just do some some 439 00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:42,760 Speaker 1: swabs and see what you get. It wouldn't bear. 440 00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:52,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, this episode is being brought to you today by 441 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:56,800 Speaker 2: my book, Nicole and Jemmy's Anatomy. 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Getting back to so, you were saying that 452 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:41,400 Speaker 2: when you were working in the er that you would 453 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:44,520 Speaker 2: just get paid the same salary because you were already 454 00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:48,280 Speaker 2: on shift. But do you know anything This is kind 455 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:50,280 Speaker 2: of a personal question. I'm not trying to ask you, 456 00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:53,000 Speaker 2: like how much you make, but I'm just asking for 457 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:55,919 Speaker 2: people that may be interested in the field. Do you 458 00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:59,800 Speaker 2: get paid, like on average, the same as you would 459 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:02,439 Speaker 2: if you were just still working in the er or 460 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:05,800 Speaker 2: do you as because I feel like the more specialized 461 00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:07,919 Speaker 2: you are, the more you should get paid personally, But 462 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:09,760 Speaker 2: I don't know if that's true in your field. 463 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:15,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's I would say it's not. Of the different 464 00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:20,240 Speaker 1: companies I've worked for, a lot of them are nonprofits 465 00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:22,320 Speaker 1: and so that they don't have a lot of money 466 00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:25,480 Speaker 1: to give, and so you know, the perks would be 467 00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:28,600 Speaker 1: they'd pay for your training and your education and your 468 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:34,480 Speaker 1: recertification and things like that. But when you're doing the job. 469 00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:39,040 Speaker 1: In my experience, it's been I'll get paid like five 470 00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:42,480 Speaker 1: dollars an hour to be on call, so five dollars 471 00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:45,360 Speaker 1: times however many hours I won't call, and then if 472 00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:48,280 Speaker 1: I get called in, I would get a lump sum 473 00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:51,680 Speaker 1: based on if it's day shift or night shift, and 474 00:27:52,400 --> 00:28:00,159 Speaker 1: I might get a differential on the holidays, or a 475 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:04,680 Speaker 1: different rate if it's pediatrics versus adult. So there's a 476 00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:10,120 Speaker 1: couple of variables there, and it's not big money at all. 477 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:13,000 Speaker 1: I think that one hundred percent of the nurses, this 478 00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:16,200 Speaker 1: is all their second job, and so it's extra income. 479 00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:20,000 Speaker 1: It's not benefited. It's not like you get any perks. 480 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:22,200 Speaker 1: It's just it's just going to be some extra money 481 00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:24,840 Speaker 1: for you. But you know, for everybody that loves it, 482 00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:29,080 Speaker 1: it's totally worth it. And I've worked for different companies 483 00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:31,520 Speaker 1: that have paid drastically different and it's nice when you 484 00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:34,080 Speaker 1: get paid more, but I still will do it even 485 00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:38,680 Speaker 1: getting paid less, because it's important and I love it. 486 00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:40,840 Speaker 1: And then it can lead to other things, like it 487 00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:43,040 Speaker 1: led to the death investigation job that I have. 488 00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:47,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I find that just in general. I remember 489 00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:52,320 Speaker 2: when I rotated at the Emmy's office. I really wanted 490 00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:55,800 Speaker 2: to do autopsies there as a job, and they said 491 00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:58,360 Speaker 2: they would hire me, but they basically were like, you're 492 00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:01,240 Speaker 2: getting paid, like we pay the text like it was 493 00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:04,600 Speaker 2: something really. I mean this was back in two thousand 494 00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:07,680 Speaker 2: and seven, but they were getting paid like thirty twenty 495 00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:10,720 Speaker 2: eight or thirty thousand dollars a year with the exception 496 00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:14,080 Speaker 2: of like being able to work overtime and get more, 497 00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:19,120 Speaker 2: but then basically working forty hours, you know, or eighty 498 00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:23,240 Speaker 2: hours a week to get to get a normal like salary, 499 00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:26,800 Speaker 2: I think, and in forensics in jail, I mean this, 500 00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:30,240 Speaker 2: I only have experience with Philadelphia, so but I think 501 00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:33,160 Speaker 2: that it seems like they don't really because it's a 502 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:36,520 Speaker 2: government job kind of, so they don't pay, they don't 503 00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:40,800 Speaker 2: have money, and it's unfortunate because when you're talking, I 504 00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:44,560 Speaker 2: think about how important your job is it, but that 505 00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:47,760 Speaker 2: doesn't always that doesn't always equal like what you would 506 00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:50,800 Speaker 2: get paid to do something like that. But obviously you 507 00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:52,920 Speaker 2: do it because you you know, people do it because 508 00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:57,080 Speaker 2: they love it and that's that's cool. Have you you were? 509 00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:01,320 Speaker 2: So what's what is the follow through with your cases? 510 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:01,480 Speaker 1: So? 511 00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:07,280 Speaker 2: For example, if you work on someone, do you get 512 00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:09,880 Speaker 2: do you find out like what happened, if any of 513 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:12,880 Speaker 2: the evidence you collected yielded something, if there was any 514 00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:17,400 Speaker 2: kind of prosecution or anything in regards to your particular cases. 515 00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:21,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, so if you're proactive, you might be able to 516 00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:25,720 Speaker 1: find that out. Every county should have something like a 517 00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:30,160 Speaker 1: start which a sexual assault Response team or NDT, A 518 00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:34,760 Speaker 1: multidisciplinary team, and that might be quarterly where you have 519 00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:39,720 Speaker 1: all different key players like the district attorney or prosecuting attorneys, 520 00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:46,320 Speaker 1: law enforcement detectives, the SAANE nurses, the advocacy center staff 521 00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:52,880 Speaker 1: get together quarterly, for example, and meet and discuss cases 522 00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:56,480 Speaker 1: that have happened in that past past quarter. So you 523 00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:59,000 Speaker 1: if you go to those and participate, then yeah, you 524 00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:01,400 Speaker 1: might find that out because because they would have that information. 525 00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:07,240 Speaker 1: But also cases that go to court and are prosecuted, 526 00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:11,440 Speaker 1: then you would likely be subpoanut and so then you 527 00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:15,680 Speaker 1: would definitely find out what happened. So there are times 528 00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:18,040 Speaker 1: when you will, but there's a lot of times when 529 00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:20,120 Speaker 1: you'll just never see or hear from them again. 530 00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:23,640 Speaker 2: Okay, that was That was Actually another question I had 531 00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:25,680 Speaker 2: for you was you have to go to court, so 532 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:27,560 Speaker 2: there is a chance that you would have to go 533 00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:30,640 Speaker 2: to court on some cases. Yeah, oh my god, have 534 00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:32,880 Speaker 2: you ever have you ever gone to court yet? Or no? 535 00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:37,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, I have a couple of times. It's always you 536 00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:39,920 Speaker 1: always get nervous because you know your chart's up there 537 00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:43,600 Speaker 1: and by dissecting every single thing you said, and you're noticing, God, 538 00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:47,080 Speaker 1: my handwriting is terrible, or spell that I look like 539 00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:51,120 Speaker 1: an idiot, and they just really hammer you big time 540 00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:54,960 Speaker 1: about you know, why are you so qualified to be 541 00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:57,560 Speaker 1: there to do that job? And it makes you kind 542 00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:00,480 Speaker 1: of second guess yourself, or at least the defense tries 543 00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:06,320 Speaker 1: to do that. But yeah, it's happened, and usually people 544 00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:08,720 Speaker 1: don't get much time, but sometimes they do or it 545 00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:10,840 Speaker 1: could be a third strike offense and they get life 546 00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:12,640 Speaker 1: in prison, and that always feels really good. 547 00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:17,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's I went to court once with the Emmy, 548 00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:21,360 Speaker 2: well a couple of times actually, and those defense attorneys 549 00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:24,360 Speaker 2: were just giving it to them, you know, they were 550 00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:26,680 Speaker 2: really trying to screw them up, and it just was 551 00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:29,320 Speaker 2: it was really it was a cool experience for me 552 00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:31,280 Speaker 2: because I was just kind of in the audience watching 553 00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:34,600 Speaker 2: like a real life law and order situation. But for them, 554 00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:36,560 Speaker 2: I thought like, oh my god, that would strust me 555 00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:37,240 Speaker 2: out so bad. 556 00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:40,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not fun, but you also just have to 557 00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:43,920 Speaker 1: realize it's part of your job and you're just being 558 00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:46,920 Speaker 1: honest and speaking to what happened in that moment. And 559 00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:50,040 Speaker 1: the biggest thing is you just have to document everything, 560 00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:53,040 Speaker 1: you know, just don't leave any room for interpretation. 561 00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:56,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, and always just think this is going to court 562 00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:58,720 Speaker 2: so someone else is going to be in this chart 563 00:32:58,800 --> 00:32:59,520 Speaker 2: or whatever. 564 00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:01,560 Speaker 1: Every single time, and yeah, assume every chart is going 565 00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:02,160 Speaker 1: to go to court. 566 00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:07,400 Speaker 2: Yeah. Also, so I saw that you have an Instagram 567 00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:12,800 Speaker 2: account that's at forensic dot nurse correct h that it's cool. 568 00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:16,080 Speaker 2: I checked it out. I hope that a bunch of 569 00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:18,720 Speaker 2: our people will start following you. You can get more 570 00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:22,479 Speaker 2: followers and kind of spread the word about that. Trust me, 571 00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:26,320 Speaker 2: so many nurses, so so many nurses say they would 572 00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:28,680 Speaker 2: they want to know if they could do my job, 573 00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:31,520 Speaker 2: and it would really be a pain in the ass 574 00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:34,560 Speaker 2: for you to become a PA after you're a nurse 575 00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:37,640 Speaker 2: because you have to go to school all over again. Yeah, 576 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:41,200 Speaker 2: and this is I think it's more interesting than my job. 577 00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:44,880 Speaker 1: Well, yeah it is. 578 00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:45,640 Speaker 2: And on. 579 00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:49,960 Speaker 1: There's just a lot of opportunities for growth, so people 580 00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:52,800 Speaker 1: can make it what it it needs to be in 581 00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:55,000 Speaker 1: the community that they live in. But you just don't 582 00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:58,640 Speaker 1: usually have that knowledge that this even exists. So I 583 00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:01,200 Speaker 1: think I don't have that many followers, but of the 584 00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:03,720 Speaker 1: ones that I do, I've just had genuine interest from 585 00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:07,040 Speaker 1: people that are pre nursing or nursing students or they've 586 00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:09,600 Speaker 1: been nurses for a long time. And they just messaged 587 00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:12,040 Speaker 1: me and asked, how do I get into this? It's 588 00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:15,200 Speaker 1: exactly what I want to do, and the other to 589 00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:18,120 Speaker 1: answer a question you had earlier. Another reason I fell 590 00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:22,320 Speaker 1: into this was because I have always had an interest 591 00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:25,839 Speaker 1: in law enforcement. I've always thought being a detective would 592 00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:30,200 Speaker 1: be a fascinating and satisfying and I've also just really 593 00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:36,360 Speaker 1: kind of come to love the world of helping victims 594 00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:40,080 Speaker 1: of sex trafficking or human trafficking, and so I've learned 595 00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:43,239 Speaker 1: a lot about that through my saying training. And I 596 00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:46,960 Speaker 1: before I became a forensic nurse, like as the death investigator, 597 00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:50,120 Speaker 1: I was so burned out with nursing. I had done 598 00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:53,600 Speaker 1: it long enough that I was bitter and hated going 599 00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:56,880 Speaker 1: to work every day, and I wanted a career change, 600 00:34:56,920 --> 00:35:01,200 Speaker 1: and so I looked into becoming a police officer. And 601 00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:03,279 Speaker 1: so I did all the testing that was needed and 602 00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:06,160 Speaker 1: interviews and things like that, and I made it to 603 00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:08,960 Speaker 1: the chiefs interview of the agency that I wanted to 604 00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:12,880 Speaker 1: work for. But that was like January of twenty and 605 00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:16,680 Speaker 1: then COVID kicked off, and so they ended up switching 606 00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:21,320 Speaker 1: their hiring to just lateral transfers instead of new officers, 607 00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:25,440 Speaker 1: So that kind of derailed me at that time, but 608 00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:27,959 Speaker 1: ultimately it led me to this jobs though it worked 609 00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:29,799 Speaker 1: out in the end. But I just have always had 610 00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:35,880 Speaker 1: that love of the law enforcement side and criminal shenanigans 611 00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:38,960 Speaker 1: that happened. Just it aligns with being an er nurse 612 00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:41,120 Speaker 1: or even a nurse in general, where you just have 613 00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:45,040 Speaker 1: that dark, sarcastic, extensive humor and it meshes very well. 614 00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:48,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so cool. It's like so exciting to meet 615 00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:52,400 Speaker 2: you and talk to you about this because I've always wondered. 616 00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:56,160 Speaker 2: I've heard that there's forensic nurses, but I don't. I'm 617 00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:58,840 Speaker 2: not a nurse, and so many people that are in 618 00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:01,239 Speaker 2: the gross room are so this this is going to 619 00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:05,720 Speaker 2: be so interesting for them to hear. I guess that's 620 00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:08,080 Speaker 2: all I have. Really, that's all I had to ask. 621 00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:12,200 Speaker 2: Do you have anything that I completely didn't think of? 622 00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:16,359 Speaker 1: Or oh, I don't think so. I mean, I think 623 00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:19,600 Speaker 1: we hit all the high points as far as addressing 624 00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:22,080 Speaker 1: if somebody is interested, what they could do, you know, 625 00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:24,600 Speaker 1: locally to kind of look into it. Just just ask 626 00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:27,439 Speaker 1: questions in job shadow, I think that's my biggest piece 627 00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:29,879 Speaker 1: of advice, is to seek out the information that you're 628 00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:32,279 Speaker 1: wanting and if there's somebody that you know that has 629 00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:34,360 Speaker 1: a job you're interested in, see if you can shadow 630 00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:35,840 Speaker 1: them and interview them yourself. 631 00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:39,040 Speaker 2: So what are the rules as far as that goes? 632 00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:43,480 Speaker 2: Because things have changed a lot obviously over since I 633 00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:45,640 Speaker 2: started to Like I used to be able to have 634 00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:48,400 Speaker 2: college students that just wanted to see an autopsy that 635 00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:52,440 Speaker 2: might be interested in pathology to come and now you know, 636 00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:55,279 Speaker 2: fast forward, it's a hippa. We don't want anyone in 637 00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:57,200 Speaker 2: the autopsy room that's not supposed to be in there. 638 00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:01,560 Speaker 2: You know, they get a little crazy with that. So 639 00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:05,280 Speaker 2: let's say a nursing a nurse or a nursing student 640 00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:09,200 Speaker 2: wanted to shadow you. I mean they can't really go 641 00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:12,640 Speaker 2: on a real call with you, right or how does 642 00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:13,240 Speaker 2: that work? 643 00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:17,440 Speaker 1: That would probably just be a case by case basis. 644 00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:19,200 Speaker 1: I think if it was your run of the mill 645 00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:23,600 Speaker 1: death scene that I went to, it might be allowed. 646 00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:25,920 Speaker 1: I would have to clear it with the people that 647 00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:29,560 Speaker 1: I work for. But if it's something potentially criminal, then yeah, 648 00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:34,120 Speaker 1: we usually don't let anybody come in and participate in 649 00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:37,480 Speaker 1: anyway because I mean, you might be subpoena to yourself 650 00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:42,080 Speaker 1: if you're there and so, but it also depends on 651 00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:44,960 Speaker 1: your medical examiner, like mine is very open to teaching 652 00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:47,719 Speaker 1: and having people watch. So I have invited some of 653 00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:51,200 Speaker 1: the people that are interested to come shadow and autopsy 654 00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:55,319 Speaker 1: because I do assist with those as well, and I've 655 00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:58,880 Speaker 1: had a nurse shadow me for some of the things 656 00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:01,560 Speaker 1: that I do. Sometimes we'll just sit down and talk 657 00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:04,759 Speaker 1: about it, just because it's natural to have questions, like 658 00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:07,000 Speaker 1: the things that you're asking are the things that other 659 00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:10,040 Speaker 1: people ask, And nurses will say, how do you get 660 00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:13,040 Speaker 1: blood from a dead person? Like I can't even figure 661 00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:14,839 Speaker 1: that out? And then I tell them and I show 662 00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:18,760 Speaker 1: them and it's mind blowing because it's just completely different 663 00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:20,280 Speaker 1: than working with a live person. 664 00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:24,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think shadow I always say that too because 665 00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:29,640 Speaker 2: on so for our fields, for a pathologists assistant, it's like, you, really, 666 00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:32,160 Speaker 2: there's not really many things you could do. You could 667 00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:35,279 Speaker 2: work in surgical pathology or autopsy, but like that's it. 668 00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:39,400 Speaker 2: So if you don't like it, you're stuck with it, basically. 669 00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:42,360 Speaker 2: And so many of my classmates and students that have 670 00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:45,920 Speaker 2: gone through the program haven't shadowed someone prior and they 671 00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:49,480 Speaker 2: don't even know. Like even my classmates had no idea 672 00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:51,719 Speaker 2: what the job was going to be when they graduated, 673 00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:54,160 Speaker 2: and I was already working at the hospital, so I 674 00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:56,600 Speaker 2: would bring them in and be like, hey, this is 675 00:38:56,640 --> 00:38:59,080 Speaker 2: where you're going to work all the time, and you know, 676 00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:03,440 Speaker 2: show them and stuff. But it makes no sense to 677 00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:05,960 Speaker 2: sign up for that huge tuition bill and go through 678 00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:09,120 Speaker 2: all that hard college and then not really know that 679 00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:10,879 Speaker 2: you want to do something, you know what I mean. 680 00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:13,319 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's how I felt about nursing, and I 681 00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:15,919 Speaker 1: just fell into it and I didn't know what else 682 00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:21,319 Speaker 1: I wanted to do when I was nineteen, and I 683 00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:24,120 Speaker 1: just have been persistent and made it something that I 684 00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:26,640 Speaker 1: do enjoy and I'm grateful that it pays the bills 685 00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:29,920 Speaker 1: and provides job security, but I've never loved it. But 686 00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:32,080 Speaker 1: the job that I have now I love. So it 687 00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:34,000 Speaker 1: took a while, but I. 688 00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:38,840 Speaker 2: Could tell that you love it. That's it all worked 689 00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:42,359 Speaker 2: out good. But you look like you're like around my age, right, 690 00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:44,720 Speaker 2: So it was when we were younger and getting ready 691 00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:46,759 Speaker 2: to go to school, that's what you did. You were 692 00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:49,360 Speaker 2: a nurse's Yeah, they were like, you're going to be 693 00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:52,359 Speaker 2: a nurse, and that's what girls did, right, And now 694 00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:55,920 Speaker 2: it's that's why I love your profession, because I think 695 00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:59,680 Speaker 2: you're gonna like you said something that I've heard myself say, 696 00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:03,080 Speaker 2: which is nobody knew this existed. And that's what got 697 00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:05,400 Speaker 2: me to start my Instagram because I was like, nobody 698 00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:07,520 Speaker 2: in the world knows how cool this stuff is that's 699 00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:11,040 Speaker 2: going on behind the scenes. So I think you're going 700 00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:13,719 Speaker 2: to be an innervative person in this field, and it 701 00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:15,680 Speaker 2: just makes me really excited that I got to talk 702 00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:16,000 Speaker 2: to you. 703 00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:19,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, this has been great, and so. 704 00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:22,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, guys, just follow her on Instagram at forensic dot 705 00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:26,520 Speaker 2: nurse and I'll also get some information off of her 706 00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:29,640 Speaker 2: to put on this post as far as like additional 707 00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:32,640 Speaker 2: resources that you could or if you even want to 708 00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:34,840 Speaker 2: give out your information because you might get a flood 709 00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:38,200 Speaker 2: of people and asking you questions. 710 00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:40,840 Speaker 1: Yeah. The other thing I'll just say real fast is 711 00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:45,080 Speaker 1: that I asked n International Association of Forensic Nurses is 712 00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:48,440 Speaker 1: like the certification you'd have to have so you can 713 00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:52,840 Speaker 1: be a member and you'd get newsletters and information you 714 00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:56,880 Speaker 1: can get certified through them, and all kinds of trainings 715 00:40:57,280 --> 00:40:59,520 Speaker 1: that are free or for a small cost, and then 716 00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:04,640 Speaker 1: they have annual oh gosh, what do they call that 717 00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:09,960 Speaker 1: when you meet every year conference. But yeah, conferences, and 718 00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:13,520 Speaker 1: I went last year in Dallas and it was a blast. 719 00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:16,640 Speaker 1: It's so much information. So if you even think you're 720 00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:20,960 Speaker 1: interested in forensics, just join the IFN and then they 721 00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:22,439 Speaker 1: have tons of information as well. 722 00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:26,719 Speaker 2: Could nurses go to that conference that aren't saying, like, 723 00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:29,359 Speaker 2: could any nurse go to that conference just to see 724 00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:32,600 Speaker 2: if they would be interested in that world? Yeah, that's 725 00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:33,160 Speaker 2: really cool. 726 00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:35,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, you would just pay a little more being a 727 00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:37,800 Speaker 1: non member, but I mean, just do it, and a 728 00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:42,440 Speaker 1: lot of hospitals would probably pay for that if they 729 00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:45,400 Speaker 1: think that that might be something that they're wanting, is 730 00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:49,040 Speaker 1: to provide saying coverage, then you could use that as 731 00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:50,480 Speaker 1: a way to kind of get your foot in the 732 00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:51,680 Speaker 1: door and get trained that way. 733 00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:55,040 Speaker 2: Okay, all right, well thank you so much, Linda. It 734 00:41:55,040 --> 00:42:00,320 Speaker 2: was awesome meeting you. It was well, thank you all right, thanks, 735 00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:06,759 Speaker 2: thank you for listening to mother nos death. As a reminder, 736 00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:10,719 Speaker 2: my training is as a pathologist's assistant. I have a 737 00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:15,120 Speaker 2: master's level education and specialized in anatomy and pathology education. 738 00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:18,400 Speaker 2: I am not a doctor and I have not diagnosed 739 00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:22,120 Speaker 2: or treated anyone dead or alive without the assistance of 740 00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:27,360 Speaker 2: a licensed medical doctor. This show, My website and social 741 00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:30,920 Speaker 2: media accounts are designed to educate and inform people based 742 00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:34,879 Speaker 2: on my experience working in pathology, so they can make 743 00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:39,760 Speaker 2: healthier decisions regarding their life and well being. Always remember 744 00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:42,920 Speaker 2: that science is changing every day and the opinions expressed 745 00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:45,560 Speaker 2: in this episode are based on my knowledge of those 746 00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:49,359 Speaker 2: subjects at the time of publication. If you are having 747 00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:53,400 Speaker 2: a medical problem, have a medical question, or having a 748 00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:57,800 Speaker 2: medical emergency, please contact your physician or visit an urgent 749 00:42:57,840 --> 00:43:02,360 Speaker 2: care center, emergency room, or or hospital. Please rate, review, 750 00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:06,840 Speaker 2: and subscribe to Mother Knows Death on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, 751 00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:19,279 Speaker 2: or anywhere you get podcasts. Thanks