WEBVTT - Jeet Heer & Jonathan Alter 0:00:00.680 --> 0:00:04.200 Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics, 0:00:04.440 --> 0:00:07.200 where we discussed the top political headlines with some of 0:00:07.240 --> 0:00:11.840 today's best minds, and Bob Woodward says Trump is far 0:00:11.920 --> 0:00:15.480 worse than Richard Nixon, and he would know. We have 0:00:15.920 --> 0:00:19.360 such a great show for you today. The Nation's jeet 0:00:19.480 --> 0:00:24.320 here talks Donald Trump's continued to send into madness. Then 0:00:24.360 --> 0:00:28.600 we'll talk to author Jonathan Alter about his new book 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:34.840 American Reckoning, inside Trump's trial and my own. But first 0:00:35.159 --> 0:00:35.760 the news. 0:00:36.320 --> 0:00:39.000 So, Molly, last night, you and I were on stage 0:00:39.200 --> 0:00:41.960 doing our file Day of Politics as unusual, our little 0:00:42.000 --> 0:00:45.360 tour with Rick Wilson, and we missed out on mister 0:00:45.400 --> 0:00:48.919 Trump doing what I would call some demented behavior of us, 0:00:48.960 --> 0:00:51.080 swaying back and forth on stage. When I watched this 0:00:51.240 --> 0:00:53.920 last night, I literally just kept saying what the fuck 0:00:54.080 --> 0:00:55.400 very loudly through my house. 0:00:55.680 --> 0:00:58.480 Trump told his supporters to go out and vote on 0:00:58.560 --> 0:01:01.080 January fifth. A few much. 0:01:02.040 --> 0:01:02.640 I like it. 0:01:02.720 --> 0:01:07.240 I like it then the election, but still a good call. 0:01:07.360 --> 0:01:10.520 I think Republicans should definitely go vote on January fifth. 0:01:10.560 --> 0:01:14.160 He rambled about the late great Hannibal Lecter, you may 0:01:14.200 --> 0:01:19.800 remember him. Then somebody fainted and another person fainted, so 0:01:20.080 --> 0:01:24.160 he stood frozen and silent on stage as music played 0:01:24.200 --> 0:01:29.000 for thirty seven minutes. Thirty seven minutes. 0:01:28.840 --> 0:01:31.800 Listening to the Shrek soundtrack, at points. 0:01:31.840 --> 0:01:35.960 His soundtrack, which included ave Maria a lot of good 0:01:36.040 --> 0:01:40.120 stuff in there, but also thirty seven minutes of standing 0:01:40.160 --> 0:01:42.920 on stage sort of voguing for the crowd. 0:01:43.240 --> 0:01:46.639 I would call it a light sway sachet type thing. 0:01:46.760 --> 0:01:51.440 A sort of be bomp okay, Yes, yes, imagine if 0:01:51.480 --> 0:01:55.840 a Democrat, imagine if Joe Biden did that. Yeah, they 0:01:55.880 --> 0:02:03.080 would be Molly Hemingway, the whole Federalist crew, the Wall 0:02:03.120 --> 0:02:07.200 Street Journal opinion page. They would be screaming from the rooftops. 0:02:07.520 --> 0:02:11.440 Well, since he's really losing his mind today, he's at 0:02:11.720 --> 0:02:16.840 the Economic Club of Chicago and talking to Bloomberg editor 0:02:16.840 --> 0:02:20.840 in chief John Micklethwaite, Which, if I fucked that pronunciation up, 0:02:20.840 --> 0:02:23.880 I'll punch in later. What'd you see here? Today? 0:02:23.919 --> 0:02:28.280 Molly Trump is focused on his economic agenda. 0:02:28.360 --> 0:02:29.200 I'm sure he is. 0:02:29.680 --> 0:02:34.360 Right, which includes whatever. So he has about two moves 0:02:34.400 --> 0:02:37.520 when it comes to economy. One is tariff's. He says 0:02:37.520 --> 0:02:40.120 that a ten percent tariff, which he has vowed to 0:02:40.120 --> 0:02:43.560 impose on all other countries importing the US is insufficient 0:02:43.800 --> 0:02:46.840 to bring jobs back to the country. For that outcome, 0:02:47.000 --> 0:02:50.480 you need tariffs of fifty percent. So fifty percent tariff 0:02:50.520 --> 0:02:54.400 will mean that what are you buying. You're buying a 0:02:55.080 --> 0:02:59.400 thing of hangers. Right, your hangars will cost instead of 0:02:59.440 --> 0:03:03.440 costing five bucks for ten hangars, it will cost eight 0:03:03.520 --> 0:03:07.799 bucks for ten hangars, or seven dollars and fifty cents, 0:03:07.960 --> 0:03:12.320 and everything will get more expensive, which will be inflationary. 0:03:12.960 --> 0:03:17.120 The moderator the edit entry food, Bloomberg said, tariffs have 0:03:17.200 --> 0:03:19.720 another side. You could be plunging America into the biggest 0:03:19.760 --> 0:03:22.480 trade war. Trump says, no, all you have to do 0:03:22.600 --> 0:03:24.640 is build the plant in the United States and then 0:03:24.680 --> 0:03:25.840 you don't have any tariffs. 0:03:26.760 --> 0:03:29.639 Huh. Those immigrants that are going to leave. 0:03:31.520 --> 0:03:34.720 I want to play his answer on government spending. 0:03:34.720 --> 0:03:37.240 That's tremendous. Will give me an example of something you 0:03:37.280 --> 0:03:40.160 will do that will get rid of governments. 0:03:40.160 --> 0:03:41.440 But let me give you an example. 0:03:42.120 --> 0:03:45.880 When I came into government, I was the first example 0:03:45.920 --> 0:03:49.520 coming forward. This is going forward because it's the same thing. 0:03:50.320 --> 0:03:52.840 When I first sat down, a general came into my 0:03:52.960 --> 0:03:56.000 office and he said, sir, it's nice to meet you. 0:03:56.040 --> 0:03:56.920 When you please sign this. 0:03:57.000 --> 0:03:58.240 I said, what is it. 0:03:58.240 --> 0:04:01.680 It's a contract for a new air force one which 0:04:01.720 --> 0:04:04.720 is actually two planes, not one two Boeing seven forty seven. 0:04:05.640 --> 0:04:07.680 And I said, how much is it? Five point seven 0:04:07.720 --> 0:04:10.040 billion dollars. It's the hell of an expensive plane. But 0:04:10.080 --> 0:04:13.440 there's reasons for that. He said, nope, I'm not signing it. 0:04:13.520 --> 0:04:17.800 I said, who negotiated BARACKU, Sai and Obama. I said, 0:04:17.839 --> 0:04:21.120 I'm not signing it. Why because he because there's a 0:04:21.120 --> 0:04:23.600 lot of fat. He said, I'm not signing. It's got 0:04:23.640 --> 0:04:26.880 to have it three on it. Anyway, long story short, 0:04:27.080 --> 0:04:28.000 some of you have heard this. 0:04:28.720 --> 0:04:29.680 I got it down. 0:04:29.520 --> 0:04:32.960 Too, because first week they cut off four hundred million, 0:04:33.760 --> 0:04:37.440 he said, I'll cut I met with the head of Boeing. Wait, Dennis, 0:04:37.680 --> 0:04:40.280 I said, Dennis got to have a three. Five point 0:04:40.320 --> 0:04:43.640 seven is too much? Five point seven billion? He said, 0:04:43.640 --> 0:04:46.000 the most I'll take off is four hundred million dollars. 0:04:46.000 --> 0:04:48.520 I said, well, let's not bad for one conversation. So 0:04:48.560 --> 0:04:50.640 I got it down. I said, nope, I'm not accepting. 0:04:50.920 --> 0:04:54.120 Then he took off two more. Then he took off anyway. 0:04:54.360 --> 0:04:56.279 Two months went by, three months went by. I thought 0:04:56.279 --> 0:04:58.040 we blew the deal. And I was okay with me. 0:04:58.120 --> 0:05:00.240 I didn't care. But we should have a new are 0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:03.479 force one when we see these planes from Saudi Arabia, 0:05:03.640 --> 0:05:07.680 from different countries brand new, and ours is like thirty 0:05:07.680 --> 0:05:10.840 two years old, and it's a very different plane. It's 0:05:10.920 --> 0:05:13.560 much smaller plane. Yeah, the whole thing. The United States 0:05:13.560 --> 0:05:14.080 should have. 0:05:14.000 --> 0:05:18.320 The best plane, something real same well. 0:05:18.080 --> 0:05:22.599 And also like, so he's going to lessen government spending 0:05:23.040 --> 0:05:28.360 by trying to cheat his vendors, right, I mean, that's 0:05:28.440 --> 0:05:32.479 that is I'm not sure that's a scalable answer. The 0:05:32.600 --> 0:05:35.720 thing that I was the most upset by was that 0:05:35.720 --> 0:05:39.520 Trump wants to influence the FED moves. So remember one 0:05:39.560 --> 0:05:42.120 of the things that Project twenty twenty five wants to 0:05:42.160 --> 0:05:46.360 do is to make the FED, the DOJ, many aspects 0:05:46.360 --> 0:05:49.760 of the sort of the non partisan actors in the 0:05:49.760 --> 0:05:55.000 federal government to be partisan hacks arm of the Donald 0:05:55.040 --> 0:05:58.520 Trump campaign. And that's what's happening here. Trump says he 0:05:58.600 --> 0:06:01.520 wants to influence FED move and then he sort of 0:06:01.520 --> 0:06:04.640 said he wouldn't order them, but he definitely thinks he's 0:06:04.720 --> 0:06:09.440 smarter than the chairman of the FED who he actually installed, 0:06:09.720 --> 0:06:13.640 Jerome Palell. And he says, in fact, look, I think 0:06:13.720 --> 0:06:16.080 it's the greatest job in government. You show up to 0:06:16.120 --> 0:06:18.839 the office once a month and say, let's flip a coin, 0:06:18.920 --> 0:06:22.400 and everyone talks about you like you're a god. He added, 0:06:22.800 --> 0:06:25.720 I think I'm better than he would be. I think 0:06:25.760 --> 0:06:28.520 I'm better than most people would be in the position. 0:06:28.880 --> 0:06:31.520 By the way, somebody give me this kind of self 0:06:31.600 --> 0:06:35.119 esteem because I never think, oh my god, I'm better 0:06:35.160 --> 0:06:37.719 than this person. I mean, like, oh, to be a 0:06:37.920 --> 0:06:41.279 mediocre white guy. I don't think I should be allowed 0:06:41.360 --> 0:06:44.479 to order it. Oh, okay, well that's nice. But I 0:06:44.520 --> 0:06:46.479 think I have the right to put in comments as 0:06:46.480 --> 0:06:48.640 to whether or not interest rate should go up or down. 0:06:48.640 --> 0:06:50.359 By the way, all he wants is for them to 0:06:50.360 --> 0:06:54.280 go down. He also refused to answer whether or not 0:06:55.000 --> 0:06:59.080 Google should be broken up. Again. He basically just meandered 0:06:59.080 --> 0:07:03.520 and talked about something else. And then when Mikaelwithe asked him, 0:07:04.120 --> 0:07:05.840 can you say yes or no? Have you talked to 0:07:05.920 --> 0:07:09.960 Vladimir Putin since being president? Trump was like, no, but 0:07:10.360 --> 0:07:13.000 if I had, it would have been great, which is 0:07:13.040 --> 0:07:15.440 he didn't say no. He said I won't comment on that, 0:07:15.520 --> 0:07:17.400 and he said, but I will tell you that if 0:07:17.480 --> 0:07:20.800 I did, it's a smart thing. So there you go. 0:07:21.240 --> 0:07:23.560 If he did, it's a smart thing. What do you 0:07:23.560 --> 0:07:24.480 want to bet he did. 0:07:24.720 --> 0:07:25.800 I'm not betting against that. 0:07:27.240 --> 0:07:31.200 So that's Trump at the Economic Club of Chicago. Though 0:07:31.200 --> 0:07:34.520 at least he did talk and not just sway to 0:07:34.600 --> 0:07:38.720 the wind, and for that we should all be impressed 0:07:38.800 --> 0:07:45.720 that he at least tried to answer some questions. Get 0:07:45.840 --> 0:07:50.080 here is a contributor to the nation and the host 0:07:50.320 --> 0:07:56.440 of the time of Monsters. Welcome Back, Too Fast Politics. 0:07:56.640 --> 0:07:59.640 Jed here always good to be on the program. 0:08:00.120 --> 0:08:04.200 So I am so glad to have you on this podcast, 0:08:04.400 --> 0:08:06.640 and I have so many things I want to talk 0:08:06.680 --> 0:08:11.400 to you about, the first of which is Donald Trump's 0:08:11.760 --> 0:08:15.640 little dance thirty seven minutes of bopping' and Weavin. 0:08:15.640 --> 0:08:17.600 I wanted the woke to use liberals, Wade, I mean, 0:08:17.600 --> 0:08:21.400 you're complaining he gives like two hours of advocating fascism 0:08:21.760 --> 0:08:27.360 and the mass deportations and spreading horrific conspiracy theories that 0:08:27.440 --> 0:08:30.320 could get people killed, and then he gives you something 0:08:30.360 --> 0:08:34.360 different where he's just swaying gently to like, you know, 0:08:34.400 --> 0:08:39.480 the village people. Yeah, abra ave Maria, yeah, exactly. Why 0:08:39.559 --> 0:08:42.560 not celebrate the fact that this is the most benign 0:08:42.920 --> 0:08:46.280 Donald Trump we've ever seen. Why not have a president 0:08:46.320 --> 0:08:47.600 who's a swaying tree. 0:08:47.760 --> 0:08:49.800 A swaying tree, well. 0:08:49.760 --> 0:08:52.040 Moves to the wind. This is like him and his 0:08:52.200 --> 0:08:55.000 best i've ever seen. I have followed this guy since 0:08:55.000 --> 0:08:59.000 the nineteen eighties. I've never seen such a benign you know, 0:08:59.160 --> 0:09:02.600 just sort of smile like Grandpa after you've given him 0:09:02.600 --> 0:09:03.400 a lot of worphying. 0:09:03.840 --> 0:09:06.720 So I'm going to give you listeners of full context. Here. 0:09:06.760 --> 0:09:10.680 Donald Trump was in South Dakota being interviewed by South 0:09:10.720 --> 0:09:14.760 Dakota Governor Christy Nome, who is most famous for killing 0:09:14.800 --> 0:09:18.880 her puppy. And again, the Washington Post just absolutely got 0:09:18.920 --> 0:09:22.600 it right here. They said Trump sways and bops to 0:09:22.760 --> 0:09:27.199 music for thirty nine minutes in bizarre town hall episode. 0:09:27.440 --> 0:09:31.120 The scene comes as Vice President Kamala Harris has called 0:09:31.160 --> 0:09:36.640 Trump seventy eight unstable and called into question his mental acuity. 0:09:37.280 --> 0:09:40.680 Yeah, aget, I want to set up for Donald Trump here. Well, 0:09:40.720 --> 0:09:43.800 you wanted to be talking to Christy Nole and like, well, 0:09:43.840 --> 0:09:47.760 what about like the best way to kill domestic pets? No, right, 0:09:47.920 --> 0:09:50.920 the suthlist was good. It's the Trump favorites. I'm always 0:09:50.920 --> 0:09:52.839 in favor of bringing. 0:09:52.800 --> 0:09:55.600 Oh, the town hall was in Pennsylvania. I'm sorry the 0:09:55.640 --> 0:09:58.640 town hall was in Pennsylvania, but it was with South 0:09:58.760 --> 0:10:02.120 Dakota Governor Christine. Thank you Seamus for that fact check. 0:10:02.240 --> 0:10:06.040 Yeah yeah, So again I have to say, what more 0:10:06.080 --> 0:10:08.880 do you people want? I believe that you know they 0:10:08.920 --> 0:10:11.199 were because of the sort of heat waves. I think 0:10:11.200 --> 0:10:13.520 that there were some people in the audience who had. 0:10:13.559 --> 0:10:14.760 Two different passed out. 0:10:14.960 --> 0:10:18.680 Yeah exactly. Trump showing the leadership and command that you 0:10:18.720 --> 0:10:21.280 want with someone who's gonna might have his finger on 0:10:21.320 --> 0:10:23.560 the nuclear button, said the best thing to do right 0:10:23.600 --> 0:10:26.839 now not get overheated with political rhetoric, but like if 0:10:26.840 --> 0:10:29.800 we all slay gently, we can create a wind that 0:10:29.880 --> 0:10:32.960 will help the people in the audience revive. I have 0:10:33.040 --> 0:10:36.440 to say, a masterful performance from the former president. 0:10:36.760 --> 0:10:40.880 Yeah exactly. I want to just square the circle here. 0:10:41.040 --> 0:10:43.720 He's seventy eight years old. He's the oldest person to 0:10:43.800 --> 0:10:47.720 ever run for president. He makes Reagan. I mean Reagan 0:10:47.840 --> 0:10:51.080 was like almost a decade younger when he ran, and 0:10:51.559 --> 0:10:55.760 until July, he was running against someone who was older 0:10:55.800 --> 0:10:59.640 than him, President Biden. And he made his whole case 0:11:00.120 --> 0:11:03.880 against President Biden was that President Biden was too old 0:11:04.080 --> 0:11:05.600 and too doddering. 0:11:05.480 --> 0:11:09.400 And he sees an opportunity there. You had a campaign 0:11:09.440 --> 0:11:12.480 that was all about Joe Biden being too old and 0:11:12.559 --> 0:11:16.000 you know, raising these important issues about age, and then 0:11:16.160 --> 0:11:18.520 once Biden, like you know, did a huge disservice to 0:11:18.559 --> 0:11:22.120 the country by withdrawing in the Trump's no, no, no. We 0:11:22.240 --> 0:11:25.120 have to make these issues key to the political campaign. 0:11:25.320 --> 0:11:27.560 And I will take the role that Joe Biden had. 0:11:27.760 --> 0:11:30.360 I will even go far beyond anything Joe Biden never 0:11:30.440 --> 0:11:34.280 did in terms of flaking out, not just at this event, 0:11:34.320 --> 0:11:38.439 but at other events, somehow pronouncing words in the strangest 0:11:38.559 --> 0:11:44.280 possible ways, meandering and re associating, which my friend's English 0:11:44.280 --> 0:11:46.800 professors will tell me is a form of post Wadern 0:11:46.840 --> 0:11:50.920 discourse called the weave. Yes, the weave and you know 0:11:51.080 --> 0:11:55.040 like which too much of the public is a good 0:11:55.040 --> 0:11:58.560 public service on the issue of Yes. In an aging society, 0:11:58.679 --> 0:12:00.439 you want to be seeing the doctor. You want to 0:12:00.440 --> 0:12:02.720 be getting those cognitive tasks. I say, he's doing us 0:12:02.720 --> 0:12:03.280 all a favor. 0:12:03.720 --> 0:12:08.240 Yes, exactly, he's doing He's reminding us about what it 0:12:08.360 --> 0:12:12.280 is that the stakes are. The other thing I want 0:12:12.320 --> 0:12:15.000 to talk to you about is so Trump has this 0:12:15.160 --> 0:12:22.160 closing message, and it's like authoritarianism. For example, I want 0:12:22.200 --> 0:12:25.160 to talk about Aurora. So when Aurora, he said, I'm 0:12:25.240 --> 0:12:29.480 going to invoke this act that's a wartime act. It's 0:12:29.559 --> 0:12:31.880 called it's a law from the seventeen hundreds. It's the 0:12:31.920 --> 0:12:35.880 Alien Enemies Act of seventeen ninety eight. It gives the 0:12:35.920 --> 0:12:39.520 president power to detain or deport foreign enemy as could 0:12:39.520 --> 0:12:42.880 be broadly applied to target any non citizens. By the way, 0:12:42.920 --> 0:12:46.040 that's me, not you, because you live in Canada whereas 0:12:46.120 --> 0:12:48.640 we'll soon live. I'm kidding. I will never leave this 0:12:48.720 --> 0:12:51.640 country unless I'm deported, which could be possible. He did 0:12:51.640 --> 0:12:54.360 this at Aurora. I feel like this should be the 0:12:54.400 --> 0:12:55.439 only story. 0:12:55.720 --> 0:12:58.920 Yeah, absolutely, absolutely no. I think Trump and his people 0:12:59.000 --> 0:13:02.000 are basic betting that you know, they can win this 0:13:02.080 --> 0:13:06.640 election on anti immigration shysteria, and also being willing to 0:13:06.679 --> 0:13:10.560 do far more than any government has in decades. I mean, 0:13:10.600 --> 0:13:13.560 there are, you know, in Kenaian American history examples of 0:13:13.720 --> 0:13:17.120 pretty horrific anti immigrant action, but I mean Trump wants 0:13:17.160 --> 0:13:19.240 to revive that. I think the act that he wants 0:13:19.240 --> 0:13:22.360 to revive was pretty specifically one of the foundation stones 0:13:22.600 --> 0:13:25.760 for the interrement of Japanese Americans is basically an attack 0:13:25.800 --> 0:13:29.000 on the idea of citizenship has come to be in America, 0:13:29.160 --> 0:13:31.280 especially after the Civil War, the idea of sort of 0:13:31.280 --> 0:13:34.120 birthright citizenship, and the idea that you know, like a 0:13:34.200 --> 0:13:37.440 naturalized citizen, someone who's an immigrant gives a citizen, is 0:13:37.440 --> 0:13:40.080 a citizen, and you know, like trying to create a 0:13:40.200 --> 0:13:43.360 class of provisional citizens, your citizens. You know, as long 0:13:43.400 --> 0:13:45.760 as you make Trump happy, and if he doesn't like you, 0:13:46.040 --> 0:13:48.480 doesn't like the color of your skin or just what 0:13:48.640 --> 0:13:53.000 you right, and will unleash the full force of the 0:13:53.200 --> 0:13:57.200 military and police against it. Yeah, I think that. I mean, 0:13:57.240 --> 0:13:59.360 there's a couple of interesting things. Is one of which is, 0:13:59.559 --> 0:14:01.760 you know, you know, don't hear about inflation that much anymore, 0:14:02.400 --> 0:14:05.080 you don't hear. But like a lot of other issues, 0:14:05.320 --> 0:14:07.240 this is the one issue. And you know, one could 0:14:07.280 --> 0:14:09.600 argue that this has always been the core of trump Ism, 0:14:10.000 --> 0:14:12.400 you know, going back to coming down the elevator and 0:14:12.520 --> 0:14:15.040 talking about Mexican rapists. But this is what it has 0:14:15.080 --> 0:14:17.920 come down to. And you know the issue is, you know, 0:14:18.559 --> 0:14:22.200 are there enough Americans who will blame immigrants and CEO 0:14:22.440 --> 0:14:25.320 and think that there's enough of a trouble with immigrants 0:14:25.400 --> 0:14:29.200 that they're willing to suspend the Constitution. I'm cautiously hopeful 0:14:29.240 --> 0:14:32.160 that there aren't enough Americans, but it's much closer than 0:14:32.200 --> 0:14:32.720 it should be. 0:14:33.160 --> 0:14:37.440 We have no idea. Yeah. During this town hall, which 0:14:37.760 --> 0:14:41.480 is pretty wacky, was on October fourteenth, he told his 0:14:41.480 --> 0:14:44.000 supporters to go out and vote. On January fifth, he 0:14:44.120 --> 0:14:47.640 talked about the late great Hannibal Lecter, who you and 0:14:47.720 --> 0:14:51.560 I know is not real. He acted confused when asked 0:14:51.600 --> 0:14:54.800 if they should end the event and play a walk 0:14:54.840 --> 0:14:57.360 off song, and then he stood frozen and silent on 0:14:57.440 --> 0:15:00.760 stage as music played for thirty plus minutes. 0:15:01.320 --> 0:15:03.080 Yeah, I know, I mean, I having the whole music. 0:15:03.160 --> 0:15:05.000 I mean it is a very I mean I would 0:15:05.080 --> 0:15:07.960 encourage listeners to, like just to watch some of the 0:15:07.960 --> 0:15:11.520 clips around. It's very bizarre because you could tell that 0:15:11.560 --> 0:15:14.640 the people around him are like kind of puzzled, like, well, 0:15:14.720 --> 0:15:17.840 why is he doing this? What's exactly going on? And 0:15:18.360 --> 0:15:21.600 it is you know, I mean, people use a very sundowning, 0:15:21.640 --> 0:15:23.920 but I think that this is something that's maybe even 0:15:23.920 --> 0:15:26.040 a little bit of more extreme. And you can just 0:15:26.040 --> 0:15:28.560 see this in Trump's rhetoric, right, you know, tought would 0:15:28.600 --> 0:15:31.360 it just be giving a meandering speech and occasion you mentioned, 0:15:31.360 --> 0:15:33.080 you know, like, well, you know what if I just 0:15:33.120 --> 0:15:36.480 went to the beach and like, you know, just relax there, 0:15:36.560 --> 0:15:38.240 or you know, like sometimes I just want to get 0:15:38.280 --> 0:15:41.280 in a truck and just like drive. And I think 0:15:41.360 --> 0:15:45.920 that the technical term in psychology is, if not quite 0:15:45.960 --> 0:15:50.960 suicidal ideation, maybe end bass ideation. Trump is kind of 0:15:50.960 --> 0:15:53.520 trying to imagine the end is near. How am I 0:15:53.560 --> 0:15:55.560 going to finish it off? How am I going to 0:15:55.560 --> 0:15:57.480 get in a good position to see the white light. 0:15:57.720 --> 0:16:00.240 The other thing I'm struck by is like one of 0:16:00.320 --> 0:16:03.920 the things that we have so removed ourselves from because 0:16:03.920 --> 0:16:07.000 we've been living in this election cycle for what feels 0:16:07.000 --> 0:16:10.440 like one hundred years, is that Donald Trump is still 0:16:10.520 --> 0:16:13.360 running for president in order to avoid all of his 0:16:13.480 --> 0:16:14.520 criminal charges. 0:16:14.960 --> 0:16:17.040 Yeah, well no, I mean that's the only reason he's 0:16:17.120 --> 0:16:19.000 running for president. I kind of feel at this point 0:16:19.160 --> 0:16:21.360 there's something a little bit different. I do kind of 0:16:21.400 --> 0:16:23.480 feel if people always said a line, well, it's like 0:16:23.480 --> 0:16:25.600 the producers. He doesn't really want it, but. 0:16:25.760 --> 0:16:28.080 He wants to win. I think because he doesn't want 0:16:28.120 --> 0:16:28.640 to go to jail. 0:16:28.920 --> 0:16:31.360 I think that's wrong. But he wants to win. But 0:16:31.400 --> 0:16:34.320 he wants this time more than even in the past. 0:16:34.720 --> 0:16:38.280 He wants to win for like purely utilitary and self 0:16:38.360 --> 0:16:42.520 interested reasons, and I'm not sure his heart is in it, 0:16:42.960 --> 0:16:45.000 and so he kind of I mean in terms of 0:16:45.040 --> 0:16:47.480 what I'm talking about, like these kind of like meandering speeches. 0:16:47.800 --> 0:16:49.560 This is something a little bit different than before. Like 0:16:49.640 --> 0:16:52.000 I think he's thinking about the end of his life, 0:16:52.080 --> 0:16:54.760 the end of the road, much more than he ever has. 0:16:55.040 --> 0:16:58.480 We're all thinking about that our own lives. I mean, 0:16:58.480 --> 0:17:00.880 it's been a decade of covering this guy, and we're 0:17:00.920 --> 0:17:02.280 all very tired. 0:17:02.560 --> 0:17:05.520 Yeah, well he's tired. He's tired too, Like he can't 0:17:05.560 --> 0:17:09.280 even pretend anymore to care. And it's like he's like decided, 0:17:09.400 --> 0:17:11.760 like you know, like no, I don't want to take questions. 0:17:11.840 --> 0:17:14.480 I don't want to talk to this South the Quota 0:17:14.560 --> 0:17:19.160 bulhunt for this audience of Pennsylvania hillbillies. I just want 0:17:19.200 --> 0:17:21.600 to like, you know, sway in the wind and listen 0:17:21.640 --> 0:17:24.520 to the Maria. Yeah, listen to my music, you know, 0:17:24.640 --> 0:17:26.000 put on a few show tunes. 0:17:26.320 --> 0:17:27.959 He just loves show tunes. 0:17:28.240 --> 0:17:30.520 Yeah. I think, you know, like if you could somehow 0:17:30.600 --> 0:17:33.360 arrange the scenario where he gets to, you know, sit 0:17:33.440 --> 0:17:36.679 on the beach and listen to Andrew Lloyd Weber until 0:17:36.760 --> 0:17:38.440 the white Light comes to get him. 0:17:38.720 --> 0:17:41.560 So let's just talk about last week. I saw the 0:17:41.640 --> 0:17:45.760 Apprentice movie, which Trump is very angry about. He truth 0:17:46.200 --> 0:17:47.880 quote unquote truth about it. 0:17:48.040 --> 0:17:50.399 Well, he gave the best possible review because I actually 0:17:50.400 --> 0:17:52.879 think I know the movie is doing, but I actually 0:17:52.880 --> 0:17:54.720 think that this will help the movie quite a bit. 0:17:54.960 --> 0:17:57.199 Yeah, and I watched the movie, and you know, I 0:17:57.240 --> 0:17:59.560 grew up in this city, My parents grew up in 0:17:59.600 --> 0:18:04.400 this city. The you know, my grandfather knew Roy Cone 0:18:04.440 --> 0:18:07.600 because Roy Cone was involved in the House on American 0:18:07.640 --> 0:18:11.480 Activities and putting my grandfather in jail for his political beliefs. 0:18:11.560 --> 0:18:14.560 Oh yeah, he was like McCarthy's like second of command. 0:18:14.640 --> 0:18:17.240 Yeah, as I'm watching this movie, and you know, one 0:18:17.280 --> 0:18:19.920 of the things about this movie is Jeremy Strong from 0:18:20.080 --> 0:18:24.480 Succession is like an incredible does an incredible character study 0:18:24.520 --> 0:18:28.439 of Roy Cohne and Roy Cone is probably one of 0:18:28.520 --> 0:18:33.960 the most interesting and evil characters in American political life. 0:18:33.960 --> 0:18:36.800 And he touched on all of these things. But also 0:18:37.160 --> 0:18:42.879 you had in this movie Roger Stone and it just 0:18:43.040 --> 0:18:46.720 was a very it struck me as it reminded me 0:18:46.920 --> 0:18:51.040 again There's questions about whether or not how much of 0:18:51.080 --> 0:18:55.640 how successful Roy Cone was in making Donald Trump, crafting 0:18:55.640 --> 0:18:57.840 Donald Trump into his image, or if Donald Trump was 0:18:57.840 --> 0:19:00.760 always like that, but it was still I thought quite interesting. 0:19:01.160 --> 0:19:03.119 Oh yeah, I know, I know, actually do think that 0:19:03.240 --> 0:19:05.840 Roy Cone is one of the expealitions of who Donald 0:19:05.840 --> 0:19:08.240 Trump is. Not to say that, you know, he took 0:19:08.280 --> 0:19:13.120 this young, unison, decent man and corrupted him. Yeah, Rather, 0:19:13.400 --> 0:19:16.040 I mean Trump already had a rotten in his soul, 0:19:16.080 --> 0:19:18.600 but I mean Roy Cohne was the figure who out 0:19:18.680 --> 0:19:20.879 in the ropes. And the thing is, people forget this 0:19:21.200 --> 0:19:23.600 but Roy Cone, because Roy conn is such a villain, 0:19:23.840 --> 0:19:26.800 you know, was so involved with McCarthyism, was a corrupt 0:19:26.880 --> 0:19:30.159 lawyer who like basically owned a lot of judges that 0:19:30.359 --> 0:19:34.000 was disbarred, and was a self hating gay man who 0:19:34.160 --> 0:19:36.520 you know, like such a vicious figure. But he was 0:19:36.560 --> 0:19:39.159 also a power in the land. I mean Roy Cohn 0:19:39.680 --> 0:19:43.040 in the sort of seventies and eighties, you know, like 0:19:43.280 --> 0:19:46.120 at any top New York party would be hanging out, 0:19:46.160 --> 0:19:48.280 and he would hang out with people from the liberal 0:19:48.320 --> 0:19:51.200 media because he could do people favors, right, like Barbara Walters, 0:19:51.320 --> 0:19:54.439 you know, bless her soul was very close to Roy Cone, 0:19:54.520 --> 0:19:58.119 and so Roy Cone knew that particular New York power 0:19:58.119 --> 0:20:02.080 structure which is all about so her favors and but 0:20:02.119 --> 0:20:04.720 also getting the dirt like he was able. He's only 0:20:04.960 --> 0:20:07.280 he's like a terrible lawyer in terms of knowing the law, 0:20:07.600 --> 0:20:09.879 but he knew the dirt on all the judges and 0:20:09.920 --> 0:20:13.639 he knew how to blackmail them, right, And so I 0:20:13.680 --> 0:20:16.000 think absolutely, I don't think you can make sense of 0:20:16.080 --> 0:20:19.760 Donald from without how to say interestingly enough, I mean 0:20:19.760 --> 0:20:22.240 he said, you know, thumbs down from Donald Trump for 0:20:22.320 --> 0:20:25.280 the movie. But rogers Stold actually gave me a good 0:20:25.320 --> 0:20:27.879 recommendation where he said, you know, I knew Roy Cohen 0:20:27.960 --> 0:20:30.400 and you know this movie. 0:20:30.280 --> 0:20:32.880 It really does seem like Roy Kahn. 0:20:33.760 --> 0:20:35.800 Oh yeah, yeah, No, no, no, I mean no, And 0:20:36.160 --> 0:20:40.040 it's I mean, I think that the movie captures, uh, 0:20:40.200 --> 0:20:42.640 you know, like an important part of the story which 0:20:42.680 --> 0:20:45.760 I think people outside of New York in particular weren't understand. 0:20:46.080 --> 0:20:49.920 There is that New York world. The late novelist Sidney's 0:20:49.920 --> 0:20:53.120 Ion described it. 0:20:52.080 --> 0:20:54.560 Which is called sid giont. 0:20:54.320 --> 0:20:57.000 Yes, Sid which is all about like Markers, It's all 0:20:57.040 --> 0:20:59.920 about favors, it's all about the back room deals that 0:21:00.160 --> 0:21:02.920 you can do, and that's you know, that's a big 0:21:02.960 --> 0:21:06.480 part of Trump's path to power in terms of show business, 0:21:06.560 --> 0:21:09.040 but also the relationship with the National A Choir. And 0:21:09.080 --> 0:21:12.240 then also you know, like the basic roy Cone code, 0:21:12.240 --> 0:21:15.280 which is like you never apologize, never forgive, you always 0:21:15.320 --> 0:21:18.159 on the attack, you know. I mean that is the 0:21:18.240 --> 0:21:22.359 Trump methodology. So I don't know how much time you 0:21:22.400 --> 0:21:24.160 want to do like sort of psychologue, but I mean 0:21:24.160 --> 0:21:28.840 that's Trump at his peak. You know, the movie is 0:21:29.119 --> 0:21:31.600