Speaker 1: I get everybody. I'm Dan Hord and thanks for downloading
Speaker 1: the Bengals Booth Podcast. The Jickiser no addition, as I
Speaker 1: discussed the Bengals off season checklist with former UC Bearcats
Speaker 1: and Carolina Panthers quarterback Tony Pike. The Bengals Booth Podcast
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Speaker 1: let's get to this week's guest. If you live in
Speaker 1: the Cincinnati area, you know all about Tony Pike. He
Speaker 1: was the quarterback who led the University of Cincinnati to
Speaker 1: back to back appearances in the Orange and Sugar Bowls
Speaker 1: in the two thousand and eight and two thousand and
Speaker 1: nine seasons before being drafted in the sixth round by
Speaker 1: the Carolina Panthers. Nerve damage in his elbow ended Tony's
Speaker 1: pro football career. But he's thriving in sports broadcasting, hosting
Speaker 1: a daily three hour show on ESPN fifteen thirty and
Speaker 1: serving as the sideline reporter on University of Cincinnati football broadcasts.
Speaker 1: We spoke this week about free agency, the draft, coaching changes,
Speaker 1: and much more. Tony with a perspective of a former
Speaker 1: NFL quarterback, and I have your number sixteen Carolina Panthers
Speaker 1: jersey on my family room wall. Did I hear you
Speaker 1: say on your radio show this week that Joe Burrow
Speaker 1: is better than two time MVP and three times Super
Speaker 1: Bowl champ Patrick Mahomes?
Speaker 2: I did you know? I watched the Super Bowl, as
Speaker 2: many of us did, in the lens of the pressure
Speaker 2: that Patrick Mahomes was under. And it's a pressure that
Speaker 2: I watched a lot this year because I feel like
Speaker 2: Joe Burrow was under a lot of that pressure, and
Speaker 2: in that pressure, Joe Burrow did something he's never done before.
Speaker 2: The statistics that he laid out this season while not
Speaker 2: being protected at all times was something I've never seen before.
Speaker 2: And to see someone regarded as one of the greatest
Speaker 2: to play the position, one that's pushing Tom Brady to
Speaker 2: watch Patrick Mahomes so unsettled by the pressure that was
Speaker 2: around him. It made me appreciate Joe Burrow's greatness even
Speaker 2: more now. If you go into every category of what
Speaker 2: they do as quarterbacks, you know, you're surrounding are a
Speaker 2: big part of it. You're coaching is a big part
Speaker 2: of it. But what I saw Joe Burrow do this
Speaker 2: year with pressure around him, it's not easy to do.
Speaker 2: It's very easy to do what Mahomes did to create ghosts,
Speaker 2: to have the feet that are all over the place,
Speaker 2: that's natural for pretty much every quarterback. Joe Burrow doesn't
Speaker 2: do that. He gets hit, he gets back up. He
Speaker 2: gets hit, he gets back up, he goes through his reads.
Speaker 2: That's so hard to do mentally, and it's something that
Speaker 2: I haven't seen before, and you saw it in the
Speaker 2: Super Bowl.
Speaker 1: Was Joe like that in Week one against New England?
Speaker 1: And then did he get over it after one game?
Speaker 2: I think so? And I think a lot of it
Speaker 2: for Joe was the injury. You know, when you come
Speaker 2: back from not just the risk, but he's come back
Speaker 2: from a major knee injury before. I think it takes
Speaker 2: getting hit. Joe himself has talked a lot about preseason
Speaker 2: right and getting hit and getting comfortable. I think it
Speaker 2: took him having a bad game against the Patriots to
Speaker 2: to understand where he was at physically, and from there
Speaker 2: he was fantastic. I don't think that you get that
Speaker 2: week one Joe Burrow had he not been coming off
Speaker 2: of the injury with so many unknowns of how the
Speaker 2: risk was gonna respond, It was a talking point every
Speaker 2: single day. I think it took some getting used to it,
Speaker 2: and he got used to it quick.
Speaker 1: All right, Tony, you've been talking about the Bengals offseason
Speaker 1: topics five days a week and since he three p
Speaker 1: sixty on ESPN fifteen thirty. So let me hit you
Speaker 1: on some of the key topics, starting with T Higgins.
Speaker 1: Should the Bengals spend basically whatever it takes to extend
Speaker 1: Jamar Chase and T Higgins or would they be better
Speaker 1: off to tag and trade Tea for a high draft
Speaker 1: pick and use that money on other positions.
Speaker 2: Well, first, I would like to personally thank Joe Burrow
Speaker 2: for two and a half months of content that I
Speaker 2: didn't bank on having. It was so weird, like you
Speaker 2: just went through the season like this is it for Tea,
Speaker 2: This is gonna hop and then you hear Joe Burrow
Speaker 2: speak out, and I think it was calculated. I think
Speaker 2: every time Joe has spoken since then, it's been calculated.
Speaker 2: I'm biased from a former quarterback. I want the weapons,
Speaker 2: and I think this discussion goes in a different way.
Speaker 2: If there was a more clear cut path at who
Speaker 2: the number two would be? Did Yosi Vas take a
Speaker 2: big enough step? Obviously we know what Jermaine Burton's first
Speaker 2: year was. I don't think there's a clear number two,
Speaker 2: which I think puts more pressure on T Higgins coming back.
Speaker 2: But so much of the argument is watching the Super Bowl,
Speaker 2: and it's a fair one. You've got to make sure
Speaker 2: your offensive defensive lines are where they need to be.
Speaker 2: Philly was so dominant, But a counter to that would
Speaker 2: be Kansas City didn't have an answer. They don't have
Speaker 2: a Jamar Chase, they don't have a T Higgins. Travis
Speaker 2: Kelcey's at the end of his career. I look at
Speaker 2: at the weaponry of Joe Burrow as another opportunity to
Speaker 2: maybe get around other deficiencies, maybe some deficiencies up front.
Speaker 2: It's hard to guard Jamar Chase and T Higgins and
Speaker 2: Joe spoke about that T doesn't just benefit him. T
Speaker 2: Higgins benefits what Jamoar Chase does as well, because if
Speaker 2: you're going to send the double team to Jamaar Chase,
Speaker 2: you're going to single out T Higgins. Teams have paid
Speaker 2: for that, and they've paid for that dearly. I think
Speaker 2: the pressure from Joe Burrow and being a quarterback that
Speaker 2: played the game, I'm signing T. Higgins. I'm finding a way.
Speaker 2: I know it's not going to be easy to do,
Speaker 2: but T Higgins doesn't walk in the door every day.
Speaker 2: You can't just replenish and replace T. Higgins with another
Speaker 2: second round draft pick. I think T allows them to
Speaker 2: have a clearer picture of free agency and the draft
Speaker 2: and where they need to operate.
Speaker 1: I want to follow up on what you said about
Speaker 1: Joe Burrow's public comments because I said publicly for the
Speaker 1: first three months of the season last year, I assume
Speaker 1: that T would play one final year in Cincinnati on
Speaker 1: the tag and then sign elsewhere as a free agent,
Speaker 1: and the Bengals would get a third round compensatory pick
Speaker 1: if that happened. And then after that Dallas game in
Speaker 1: early December, Joe said quote, I'm confident that we're going
Speaker 1: to be able to do what it takes to bring
Speaker 1: Tea back. And then a couple of days later he
Speaker 1: referred to Tea as a need, and at that point
Speaker 1: my thinking completely changed from ten percent likely to at
Speaker 1: least fifty to fifty. Did your mindset change following those
Speaker 1: comments immediately?
Speaker 2: And it wasn't as much right after the Dallas game.
Speaker 2: It was Tea's a need, not a want, because every
Speaker 2: quarterback wants the complimentary weapons. Every quarterback wants three star receivers,
Speaker 2: two star receivers, a good running game. When you throw
Speaker 2: the term need, and I view everything Joe says as calculated.
Speaker 2: You covered Aj Green as a Cincinnati Bengal. AJ didn't
Speaker 2: talk much. When he talked, you listened, and I think,
Speaker 2: here you have the franchise player in Joe Burrow. He's
Speaker 2: going to go down as the greatest, if not one
Speaker 2: of the greatest Bengals of all time. When he wes
Speaker 2: you listen and to not just end it there. He
Speaker 2: could have sent it at Dallas. He could have said
Speaker 2: he's in need and move on. Every time he has
Speaker 2: spoken since then, it has been about t Higgins. It's
Speaker 2: been about Trey Hendrickson. It's been about Jamar Chase. You've
Speaker 2: got to compliment Mike Kasicki for getting his name thrown
Speaker 2: in there with Joe Burrow. But he is he is
Speaker 2: putting the in basketball terms, he's put the full court
Speaker 2: pressure on. And when your franchise player is doing that
Speaker 2: and using the term need for me, it's shifted right
Speaker 2: then and there. And I was in your boat. I was.
Speaker 2: I was playing out this season appreciating everything T Higgins
Speaker 2: has done and wondering how they were going to fill
Speaker 2: those those shoes to well, they got to find a
Speaker 2: way to bring him back completely. Now, if you're the Bengals, we.
Speaker 1: Are visiting with Tony Pike, former uc An NFL quarterback
Speaker 1: now the host of Since He three to sixty on
Speaker 1: ESPN fifteen thirty and Cincinnati. Do you think that T
Speaker 1: has to be willing to take a little less to
Speaker 1: make this happen.
Speaker 2: He does, And that was the only part that unsettled
Speaker 2: me a little bit. The night of the Super Bowl,
Speaker 2: he spoke publicly and said, I want to do it,
Speaker 2: but it's out of my hands. There is an agent
Speaker 2: that comes into play here. And I know chad Ocho
Speaker 2: Cinko had the comments as well as I want Tea here,
Speaker 2: but I want Tea to get what he deserves. I mean,
Speaker 2: you think about the Max deal. You work your whole
Speaker 2: life for that. You work your whole life for not
Speaker 2: only you, but your family and your family's family and
Speaker 2: generations to recoup some of that wealth as well. And
Speaker 2: it's hard to ask a player when he's getting ready
Speaker 2: to cash in to take less. But I think there
Speaker 2: are valuable things to t Higgins. I think playing with
Speaker 2: Jamar Chase and Joe Burrow is valuable. I think the
Speaker 2: love of the city of Cincinnati. I think there's a
Speaker 2: genuine love in Cincinnati. I think you can find ways
Speaker 2: if you're Tea's agent or representing company to maybe cash
Speaker 2: in more in the city of Cincinnati. Endorsements and things
Speaker 2: like that that maybe you can't make up in the contract.
Speaker 2: But yeah, you're not going to be able to go
Speaker 2: give a Max to Jamar and a Max to Tea
Speaker 2: and the money. The money has to come from somewhere.
Speaker 2: There's going to have to be a little give. I
Speaker 2: think the creativity on how you find that money from,
Speaker 2: whether that's the organization or his agent himself, I think
Speaker 2: that's a lot to weigh for T. Higgins. But the
Speaker 2: term it's out of my hands is a little unsettling.
Speaker 1: And also not true in my opinion. It's ultimately in
Speaker 1: his hand.
Speaker 2: He's going to sign off on them.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Sure, the agent is going to give him advice
Speaker 1: and what he should do. But if t ultimately wants
Speaker 1: to not mess with Happy, you know, it's not a
Speaker 1: hometown discount, it's a not mess with happiness discount. Sure,
Speaker 1: and it is in his hands.
Speaker 2: And I think for t you do have the ability
Speaker 2: to extend your career. You have the ability to put
Speaker 2: up really good numbers because Joe Burrows throwing you the
Speaker 2: ball and Jamar Chase is going to bepposite of you.
Speaker 2: I don't think you can quantify that in dollars. I
Speaker 2: think you quantify that in another contract down the road,
Speaker 2: because you're going to be a talking point going forward,
Speaker 2: because your numbers are always going to be there because
Speaker 2: teams have to respect everything else on the roster.
Speaker 1: Let's turn to Trey Hendrickson. He turned thirty on December fifth,
Speaker 1: better known as Pike Pike to Bin's Day. Thanks to
Speaker 1: some of us, it certainly doesn't look like Trey is
Speaker 1: getting old. He said seventeen and a half sacks each
Speaker 1: of the last two years. What should the Bengals do
Speaker 1: with Trey Hendrickson.
Speaker 2: It's such a hard prospect for me on Trey Hendrickson
Speaker 2: because he had seventeen and a half sacks and the
Speaker 2: defense still ranks so low in so many categories. That
Speaker 2: tells you that Trey alone cannot get the job done.
Speaker 2: Some of the factors that play in. You have Al
Speaker 2: Golden now the defensive coordinator. What does Al Golden's role
Speaker 2: represent to Trey Hendrickson. I think in Trey Hendrickson's fitness,
Speaker 2: Trey Hendrickson maybe hurts himself at times because he's not
Speaker 2: a guy that lines up on both sides. He's not
Speaker 2: a guy that moves to the interior part of the
Speaker 2: defensive line, doesn't get his hands on a ton of passes,
Speaker 2: doesn't excel it, doesn't have above average numbers against the run.
Speaker 2: He's just great at getting after the passer. And I
Speaker 2: think that makes it a little bit harder when you
Speaker 2: think about the future. Can Trey Hendrickson replicate that? And
Speaker 2: if Trey Hendrickson were to replicate that, does it still
Speaker 2: mean the defense is successful or better than what it's
Speaker 2: been That to me is the most interesting storyline here.
Speaker 2: You have to decide is Trey Hendrickson enough alone to
Speaker 2: get you back to the spot. I know the money
Speaker 2: can be there for everyone. You got a lot of
Speaker 2: holes on the defensive side of the ball. We just
Speaker 2: saw in the Super Bowl. We've already highlighted it what
Speaker 2: a defensive line as a whole with depth can do
Speaker 2: to one of the greatest quarterbacks to play the game.
Speaker 2: I think you got to look at it from the
Speaker 2: top down. You got to look at it in the secondary,
Speaker 2: you got to look at the linebacker level. You got
Speaker 2: to look at it. If it's me. I pay really
Speaker 2: close attention to what happens with Miles Garrett because I
Speaker 2: think there's seven or eight teams that are legitimate, viable
Speaker 2: options for Miles Garrett that a Miles Garrett makes them
Speaker 2: an immediate contender. And if those teams strike out, I
Speaker 2: may at least reach out and say, what when you
Speaker 2: miss Miles Garrett, what does Trey Hendrickson's value mean to you?
Speaker 2: I think, at least if I'm the Bengals, I'm doing that,
Speaker 2: which means I can slow play it a little bit
Speaker 2: more to wait and see what pans out with Miles Garrett.
Speaker 2: That's how I would play it, because you can't replenish
Speaker 2: seventeen and a half sacks, but you also have a
Speaker 2: ton of holes that need to be filled on the
Speaker 2: defense if you want to be considered a Super Bowl
Speaker 2: contending roster.
Speaker 1: As a former NFL player, what about the notion of
Speaker 1: keeping your stars and the message that sends to everybody else.
Speaker 2: It's hard, and I think it sends a message that
Speaker 2: if you work to become one of those stars, you're
Speaker 2: going to be valued in that sense. So I do
Speaker 2: think it puts a little bit on the players to
Speaker 2: maybe want to work a little bit harder. It also
Speaker 2: puts a huge emphasis on the draft, right of Okay,
Speaker 2: you need to get successful players in the draft, you
Speaker 2: need to draft starters, but you also incentivize those players
Speaker 2: and say, hey, if in three, four, five years you're
Speaker 2: a player that has become a cornerstone of this team,
Speaker 2: we're going to keep you around. And I think there's
Speaker 2: a value to that because we've seen players in the
Speaker 2: past that have moved on after their first contract with
Speaker 2: the Cincinnati Bengals. So yeah, I think there is a
Speaker 2: message that's sent to the locker room I also worry
Speaker 2: on the opposite of negative messages that can be sent
Speaker 2: if players are unhappy, What that does to a culture,
Speaker 2: what that does to a locker room, just the dynamics
Speaker 2: that it brings. I don't think that Jamar Chase situation
Speaker 2: was avoidable, and I don't think Jamar was in the fault.
Speaker 2: I don't think the Bengals were in the fault. But
Speaker 2: it just created a circus in the locker room every
Speaker 2: single day of training camp, and I think that wears
Speaker 2: on you as well. So I think the culture aspect
Speaker 2: is one that's viable here as well.
Speaker 1: Tony. On Wednesday of this week, Jermaine Pratt requested a trade.
Speaker 1: It seems to me that before that news came out,
Speaker 1: a lot of people were suggesting that the Bengals should
Speaker 1: cut him to save money. It would be about six
Speaker 1: million dollars in cap space. After that news came out,
Speaker 1: he seemed to get more valuable in the minds of
Speaker 1: the public. The New York Post said today he will
Speaker 1: be a hot commodity. What kind of market do you
Speaker 1: think is out there for Jermaine Pratt?
Speaker 2: I think if you get a late round draft pick,
Speaker 2: you count that as a win. For Jermaine Pratt. I
Speaker 2: know Jermaine Pratt is very loyal and has that relationship
Speaker 2: with lou Ayn Rumo. And for many it's hard because
Speaker 2: many tie Jermaine Pratt to that playoff game to get
Speaker 2: over the hump and intercepting the pass and punching the
Speaker 2: Bengals tickets to a playoff win. But I think on
Speaker 2: the field, I think the production at times is inconsistent.
Speaker 2: End you know, playoff, playoff, p playoff. Jermaine Pratt is
Speaker 2: a difference maker, But do you consistently get that down
Speaker 2: in and down out? And again it goes back to
Speaker 2: Al Goldon. Now, Golden did a great job at Notre
Speaker 2: Dame of getting young players to buy in and to
Speaker 2: build a system and to build a scheme around that.
Speaker 2: And I think the most important thing about that is
Speaker 2: getting young guys in the building. The Bengals currently have
Speaker 2: six draft picks. If you can recoup and get another
Speaker 2: draft pick for Jermaine Pratt, who now is a guy
Speaker 2: that doesn't seem like he wants to be here, I
Speaker 2: think that would be a win ultimately for both sides,
Speaker 2: along with saving some more money.
Speaker 1: What can Al Golden do better or differently than lou Anarumo.
Speaker 2: I don't know if it's necessarily Lou because I think
Speaker 2: Lou was awesome in the sense of getting the most
Speaker 2: out of the players, and the scheme seemed to fit
Speaker 2: early in his career the personnel, but not later in
Speaker 2: the career. I think the biggest thing that if I'm
Speaker 2: out Golden, I want to have is a clear message
Speaker 2: from the top down of what the scheme and personnel
Speaker 2: calls for from a free agent and from a draft situation.
Speaker 2: I think knowing that going in and starting fresh and
Speaker 2: cleaning the slate allows this organization to work hand in
Speaker 2: hand without Golden on what type of players need to
Speaker 2: be drafted, what type of free agents need to be
Speaker 2: highlighted in the Al Golden scheme. And he hit it
Speaker 2: on the head right away. He's not the first thing
Speaker 2: you need to do the priority get the ball back
Speaker 2: to number nine, however, you need to do that. But
Speaker 2: I think it's the messaging and to sit down and
Speaker 2: to have an opportunity to say, Okay, clear slate, here's
Speaker 2: the players that I think fit in the scheme we
Speaker 2: currently have. Here's some players in free agency that I
Speaker 2: think make a lot of sense and here's some guys
Speaker 2: to target in the draft that you really think you
Speaker 2: can build into from a system standpoint. He already has
Speaker 2: Al Golden the relationship with Logan Wilson. I think that's
Speaker 2: huge to have your linebacker is a guy that's familiar
Speaker 2: with the system and familiar with Al Golden already. I
Speaker 2: just think that needs to be clear from the top down,
Speaker 2: so you formulate the roster around the scheme itself.
Speaker 1: We are visiting with former you see in Carolina Panthers
Speaker 1: quarterback Tony Pike. Let's talk about some of the other
Speaker 1: coaching changes. Scott Peters takes over for Frank Pollack as
Speaker 1: offensive line coach. Jerry Montgomery takes over for Marion Hobby
Speaker 1: as defensive line coach. Based on your experience, how much
Speaker 1: difference do offensive and defensive line coaches make?
Speaker 2: I think a lot in the mentality and a lot
Speaker 2: in the development. Every offensive line coach is going to
Speaker 2: to use the term for Frank Pollack. You want the
Speaker 2: glass eaters, you want the bulldogs. You want the type
Speaker 2: of mentality that you're going to go maybe even a
Speaker 2: little bit after the whistle. You're wired a different way
Speaker 2: if you're an offensive line and a defensive line coach,
Speaker 2: and you're constantly battling. Those are the trenches, whether it's
Speaker 2: one on ones in practice, whether it's joint practices the games,
Speaker 2: that's a constant battle that's going on. And I think
Speaker 2: think the developmental side is the key here because there
Speaker 2: are so many holes that you do need to fill.
Speaker 2: How many of those holes are already on the roster.
Speaker 2: How many of those holes can be filled if the
Speaker 2: players are developed in a new system. I can speak
Speaker 2: personally from a new offensive coach that came in, there's
Speaker 2: a reset that hits for players that may have been
Speaker 2: behind the eight ball with the previous staff that all
Speaker 2: of the sudden now think well, now I have a chance.
Speaker 2: Now I get a fresh start. Maybe that's more of
Speaker 2: a driving factor. I think that's key when you start
Speaker 2: to look into a new coach up front, new coaches
Speaker 2: in the trenches for a lot of these players, I
Speaker 2: think it gives you the reset to say, Okay, here's
Speaker 2: a guy we can develop. Maybe there's a player on
Speaker 2: this roster that we're not factoring in, or maybe we're
Speaker 2: factoring you know, McKinley Jackson, Chris Jenkins, two rookies, really
Speaker 2: solid starts to the season. Maybe they take a bigger
Speaker 2: stump step with the development. Maybe you find that on
Speaker 2: the offensive line and there's not as many holes. I
Speaker 2: think new coaches give you a fresh start from a
Speaker 2: roster standpoint.
Speaker 1: We need Jerry Montgomery to do for Miles Murphy what
Speaker 1: Brian Kelly did for Tony Pike.
Speaker 2: Easy, what else are you asking? Head? After the quarterback
Speaker 2: ten and a half sacks? We move on.
Speaker 1: Tony and I discussed the NFL Draft next, But first,
Speaker 1: here's a quick reminder that the Bengals Booth podcast is
Speaker 1: brought to you by pay Corps, proud to be the
Speaker 1: Bengals official HR software provider, by Alta Fiber future proof
Speaker 1: fiber Internet designed to elevate your home, business, and community
Speaker 1: to a new level, and by Kettering Health the best
Speaker 1: care for the best fans. Kettering Health is the official
Speaker 1: healthcare provider of the Bengals. Put these draft priorities in order,
Speaker 1: defensive tackle, defensive end, defensive back, and guard.
Speaker 2: Man. I would be remissed if you didn't watch the
Speaker 2: suit Super Bowl and start with the defensive end position.
Speaker 2: I mean I would start d end. I would move
Speaker 2: to dtackle, then I would address guard and then I
Speaker 2: would address secondary mostly. I think dB gets addressed if
Speaker 2: you address defensive end and defensive tackle. You know those
Speaker 2: Philly the corner, they're good. They don't have to cover
Speaker 2: very long. I mean it's I cannot speak enough to
Speaker 2: four man pressure and seven man drop, especially at the
Speaker 2: rate in which Philly was able to do it. And
Speaker 2: you're not going to be able to replicate what Philly did.
Speaker 2: But if you can make the quarterback uneasy, and that
Speaker 2: starts with sacking the quarterback, that's the defensive end position.
Speaker 2: That's the biggest value to me. And then it comes
Speaker 2: at the defensive tackle spot, because if you're a quarterback
Speaker 2: and there are dominant defensive ends, you push up in
Speaker 2: the pocket and you readdress the situation if your defensive
Speaker 2: tackles are dominant, when you go to push up in
Speaker 2: the pocket, you're pushing up into a defender, into your
Speaker 2: defensive lineman. I value the defensive tackle roll. It makes
Speaker 2: a quarterbacks job so uneasy, So I'm starting there. Then
Speaker 2: I would address guard, and guard would be higher if
Speaker 2: Joe Burrow wasn't the quarterback, but we saw the effectiveness
Speaker 2: of Joe Burrow. I think if you upgrade that position
Speaker 2: at all that it's going to be even better. But
Speaker 2: I don't think it's the number one priority, especially because
Speaker 2: you've got some good bookends in Orlando Brown and a
Speaker 2: Marius Mims.
Speaker 1: You made the case for keeping T Higgins earlier. Let's
Speaker 1: say that they don't. Let's say that T wants every
Speaker 1: possible dollar and signs with somebody else. At that point,
Speaker 1: would you have to use a first or a second
Speaker 1: round pick at a wide receiver.
Speaker 2: I think you do, and I think that goes back
Speaker 2: to not knowing what you have there yet. At number two,
Speaker 2: maybe Yoshivas does take that step, Maybe there is something
Speaker 2: left in Jermaine Burton. Outside of that, it's cloudy for
Speaker 2: the Bengals, and you're doing Joe Burrow, you're doing Jamar
Speaker 2: Chase a disservice. You're doing that whole offense. You're doing
Speaker 2: Chase Brown, a disservice who gets to run with friendlier
Speaker 2: boxes because of that. So it would it would immediately,
Speaker 2: in my opinion, become a first or second round necessity
Speaker 2: where you're drafting at that spot for a starter Day
Speaker 2: one for the Bengals.
Speaker 1: All right, let's turn to free agency. Give me a
Speaker 1: dream free agent that you would like to see them sign.
Speaker 1: So we're talking the equivalent of Orlando Brown Junior a
Speaker 1: couple of years ago, where nobody thought that he could
Speaker 1: possibly sign with Cincinnati and then it played out in
Speaker 1: their favor.
Speaker 2: I think, if I have two, I have one on
Speaker 2: the defensive side of the ball. Just watch them in
Speaker 2: the Super Bowl. Joshua guy that can get after the passer.
Speaker 2: The motor like that's the term always used for defensive lineman,
Speaker 2: the motor. You watch any of Joshuwat's tape with the
Speaker 2: Philadelphia Eagles, his motor is unbelievably high. It's a position
Speaker 2: of immediate need. I would go him on the defense.
Speaker 2: If I'm on the offense and we're talking dream, I
Speaker 2: think Tevin Jenkins at twenty six years old at guard
Speaker 2: immediately slots in seventy five overall grade. Great pass protector,
Speaker 2: great run block. He protects Joe Burrow, he keeps him
Speaker 2: up right more the same way Orlando Brown has done
Speaker 2: since he's become a Cincinnati Bengal. And I don't think
Speaker 2: you have to address both guards in that sense, because
Speaker 2: if you have a good guard play, you can almost
Speaker 2: hide the other guard play. It's just when both guards
Speaker 2: are a little deficient. That's a problem. So I go
Speaker 2: Josh Wett, I go Tevin Jenkins.
Speaker 1: It's interesting because we're kind of thinking along the same lines,
Speaker 1: but I've got different names for you. Milton Williams, who
Speaker 1: is so impactful in the Super Bowl as a defensive
Speaker 1: lineman for Philly. That would be more of an interior push, yes.
Speaker 1: And then Trey Smith. If you're looking for a guard guard.
Speaker 1: That seems, you know, highly unlikely, just because of the
Speaker 1: amount of money that he's going to command. But Trey
Speaker 1: Smith twenty five years old, great player and added bonus
Speaker 1: of this passed off season when Dante Corleone was diagnosed
Speaker 1: with blood clots, Trey Smith reached out to him and
Speaker 1: gave him hope and advice because he had dealt with
Speaker 1: that when he played at Tennessee. So on a personal note,
Speaker 1: I am now a Trey Smith guy. So it seems unlikely,
Speaker 1: but we can cross our fingers and you.
Speaker 2: Keep that former Patrick Mahomes protector to Joe Burrow protector
Speaker 2: alive the way Orlando Brown Junior did.
Speaker 1: All right, Now, let's turn to a different category of
Speaker 1: free agency. This is the I can definitely see it
Speaker 1: happen candidate more like an Alex Kappa or a Zach Moss.
Speaker 2: I would turn because of the Jermaine Pratt news. I
Speaker 2: feel like a name we talked about during the deadline
Speaker 2: last year for the Giants was a z'z Ojelauri linebacker
Speaker 2: who immediately can get after the passer. He can help
Speaker 2: you in that second level. Al Golden obviously has a
Speaker 2: connection with the linebacker position. I don't know exactly what
Speaker 2: it'll cost, but if you're saving six million dollars with
Speaker 2: Jermaine Pratt, you're adding another draft pick. Maybe in that sense,
Speaker 2: I would see a guy who drew a lot of
Speaker 2: connection to Cincinnati during that process, and o Jaalari a
Speaker 2: guy that makes a lot of sense. Again, if you're
Speaker 2: coming into a new defensive coordinator, a guy that specializes
Speaker 2: in linebackers, and you're also getting to play opposite of
Speaker 2: Joe Burrow, it makes it a very attractive destination. And
Speaker 2: I don't think there's the need or the glaring free
Speaker 2: agent offensive hole as there is on defense.
Speaker 1: I'm going Makai Becton in this category.
Speaker 2: Another guard.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the Bengals kicked the tires on him last year
Speaker 1: after he played tackle it with the Jets and didn't succeed.
Speaker 1: Signed with the Eagles. They're great offensive line, coach moves them,
Speaker 1: moves him to right guard starter every game for a
Speaker 1: super Bowl winning team. So he's going to get paid,
Speaker 1: but he's not going to get paid as much as
Speaker 1: Trey Smith. The Eagles have a lot of mouths to feed.
Speaker 1: So he's the guy that I've identified identified as maybe
Speaker 1: in that this seems more realistic category.
Speaker 2: There's a way when you watch the Eagles that they
Speaker 2: just play up front that you want to be a
Speaker 2: part of. Right, Like I I remember leading into the
Speaker 2: Super Bowl, I'm watching Lewis Riddick talk and he had
Speaker 2: spent time with Andy Reid and he said, Andy, what's
Speaker 2: your what's your biggest concern going into the game? And
Speaker 2: his his comment was can we match the physicality that
Speaker 2: they play with in the trenches? And I'm thinking, like,
Speaker 2: you know, we talk about culture and scheme and all
Speaker 2: these things all the time. Is there a greater compliment
Speaker 2: from a Hall of Fame coach and Andy Reid to
Speaker 2: say can we match their physicality? Like if you're known
Speaker 2: a physical O line or a physical D line, that
Speaker 2: to me is the greatest compliment you can have at
Speaker 2: those positions. Macay Becton would be a part of that,
Speaker 2: but it's the ultimate compliment. And no, they didn't have
Speaker 2: an answer for the physicality of the Philadelphia Eagles. If
Speaker 2: you could, if you could pick off pieces of that
Speaker 2: team and bring that type of mentality into Cincinnati, you
Speaker 2: are You're helping yourself in a big way.
Speaker 1: All right, A few more topics for my friend Tony Pike.
Speaker 1: As soon as the Super Bowl ended, various news outlets
Speaker 1: did their power rankings for the upcoming season, so this
Speaker 1: starts very early. NFL dot Com has the Bengals at
Speaker 1: number fifteen, the USA Today number twelve, the athletic number thirteen.
Speaker 1: ESPN was the highest at number nine. Roughly, where do
Speaker 1: the Bengals belong in the power rankings going into free agency,
Speaker 1: the draft, and the upcoming season.
Speaker 2: They're top ten because Joe Burrows a quarterback. I know
Speaker 2: there's holes. Joe Burrows, the quarterback of the Bengals. Jamar
Speaker 2: Chase is going to be a Cincinnati Bengal. Chase Brown
Speaker 2: if I look at it in a lot of ways,
Speaker 2: like fantasy football, Chase Brown is going to be a
Speaker 2: first round pick on a lot of fantasy football boards
Speaker 2: next year. If he takes the next step, what another
Speaker 2: weapon it is. If Mike Kasiki is back. Anytime number
Speaker 2: nine is the quarterback, you have an opportunity. And I
Speaker 2: look no further than this year. I know the Bengals
Speaker 2: limited themselves. I know they hurt themselves. The Patriots lost.
Speaker 2: You could go back to so many close losses, but
Speaker 2: you can't tell me, even with the deficiencies on defense
Speaker 2: and the deficiencies up front, that if the Bengals snuck
Speaker 2: into the playoff, they wouldn't have been a threat to
Speaker 2: make it to the super Bowl. The way in which
Speaker 2: they were playing. They've conquered Buffalo in Buffalo, They've conquered
Speaker 2: Kansas City. It took a fourth and long penalty against
Speaker 2: Kansas City on the road this year to lose that game.
Speaker 2: They played the Ravens as well as you can both times.
Speaker 2: I still contend that if they would have snuck in
Speaker 2: this year, they would have been a contender to get
Speaker 2: to the super Bowl because of how Joe Burrow was
Speaker 2: playing and the confidence that they would have entered the
Speaker 2: playoffs with. So I think it's unfair to start them
Speaker 2: anywhere outside of the top ten.
Speaker 1: What do you expect the team to do to try
Speaker 1: to avoid a slow start?
Speaker 2: And that's the million dollar question. I thought, and you
Speaker 2: were there every day. I thought training camp last year
Speaker 2: was vastly different. I thought there was more energy. I
Speaker 2: thought there was more physicality. They did two joint practices.
Speaker 2: I don't think you could have done anything at training
Speaker 2: camp outside of having Jamar Chase every single day that
Speaker 2: maybe would have helped. Even Joe Burrow. It was expected
Speaker 2: Joe Burrow was going to miss a bunch of camp.
Speaker 2: I think he missed one day. So the only thing
Speaker 2: I can think of, and I know Joe has talked
Speaker 2: about this, is giving guys more time in the preseason.
Speaker 2: I know not a lot of folks want to run
Speaker 2: that risk, but Joe Burrow and Zach Taylor can formulate
Speaker 2: a plan to not take any unnecessary hits in the preseason.
Speaker 2: You can get the ball out quick, you can call
Speaker 2: pass a quick passing game, you can run the ball.
Speaker 2: I think it's more about just the verbiage and getting
Speaker 2: in and out of the huddle and playing together and
Speaker 2: going through some stale spots maybe where you don't move
Speaker 2: the ball a lot. I don't think there's been enough
Speaker 2: of that, and I think it's something Joe Burrow has
Speaker 2: spoken enough about in his career that if you're willing
Speaker 2: to try anything to start faster, I think playing in
Speaker 2: a little bit more of those preseason snaps would make sense.
Speaker 1: You can protect Joe, you can't protect everybody else, so
Speaker 1: there is some risk. The other thing I would say
Speaker 1: is we don't really look closely at the other stuff
Speaker 1: leading up to training camp. But I think Zach has
Speaker 1: been pretty generous and giving guys the occasional day off,
Speaker 1: not using every one of those available OTA practices. I
Speaker 1: wonder if they will do everything that they are legally
Speaker 1: permitted to do during those time periods in hopes of
Speaker 1: just trying something different.
Speaker 2: I think you have to for that reason. And also,
Speaker 2: if you look at what the makeup of this roster
Speaker 2: is going to be, you're going to be bringing in
Speaker 2: a lot of new players. You're going to be adding
Speaker 2: young talent. It's so much now a talking point of
Speaker 2: starting faster. I think all of those things combined, you're
Speaker 2: probably not going to see the guys being released a
Speaker 2: day early as they have in the past. You're probably
Speaker 2: going to utilize as much of that time as humanly possible,
Speaker 2: because outside of that, there's not a lot they could
Speaker 2: have done. Like I said, the training camp was so
Speaker 2: vastly different this year. It didn't have the country club
Speaker 2: field that I think in previous years. It had a
Speaker 2: little bit. It was physical, it was tough, and I
Speaker 2: think you got to try the next step from that.
Speaker 1: Joe Burrow is at the Super Bowl. He made the
Speaker 1: rounds on radio. Row when is he coming on Sincy
Speaker 1: three sixty.
Speaker 2: That's a great point, That's a great question. I don't
Speaker 2: know what we got to do at this point to
Speaker 2: get Joe on chop up some quarterbacks stuff. He was
Speaker 2: very close to being a Cincinnati Bearcats. We got to
Speaker 2: talk about the decision and probably how much he really
Speaker 2: regrets it still to this day that he went to
Speaker 2: LSU over the Cincinnati Bearcats. But man, I am in
Speaker 2: all honesty, I'm so I'm so impressed with everything that
Speaker 2: he does and the way in which he understands what's
Speaker 2: asked of him as the leader. I think you saw
Speaker 2: that maybe in some uncomfortable ways this year of seeing
Speaker 2: some of the guys that were lost and understanding you
Speaker 2: look around the locker room. Okay, now, I'm one of
Speaker 2: those guys, and I think that's I don't think that
Speaker 2: comes natural to Joe. I think that's something he had
Speaker 2: to work at. And now you see him in his appearances,
Speaker 2: you see him making his rounds. He looks so much
Speaker 2: more comfortable, He's so much more confident. He knows how
Speaker 2: good he is on the field. He knows that this team.
Speaker 2: I don't think it's I don't think it's coach speak
Speaker 2: when he says we're a legit super Bowl contender. I
Speaker 2: think he really believes that. And I don't think there's
Speaker 2: anyone better to have at the lead of an organization
Speaker 2: outside of Joe Burrow. But maybe if he finds out
Speaker 2: that I did, in fact put him ahead of Patrick
Speaker 2: Mahomes in all quarterback rankings, maybe that's good enough to
Speaker 2: get a spot on. Since he three to sixty, I
Speaker 2: don't need a weekly thing, just a one off.
Speaker 1: A one timer. Yeah. Next next time I see Joe,
Speaker 1: I'm going to let him know him. Yeah, he needs
Speaker 1: to go on since he three p sixty and talk
Speaker 1: to you. He's made one mistake in his time with
Speaker 1: the Bengals, and that was the outfit he war to
Speaker 1: the Super Bowl with the hat and the funky suit.
Speaker 1: Other than that, it's been pretty much a flawless tenure.
Speaker 2: He definitely surpasses both you and I from a fashion.
Speaker 1: Standpoint barely, but that's accurate, and.
Speaker 2: From what I've seen from you lately, probably from a
Speaker 2: food standpoint as well.
Speaker 1: I would get into that, but we're running out of time.
Speaker 1: If I have a question Following your time with the
Speaker 1: Carolina Panthers in twenty eleven, you've got a mini camp
Speaker 1: tryout with the Bengals. You were coming back from elbow surgery,
Speaker 1: and fortunately your elbow never fully came around, so it
Speaker 1: didn't work out. But do you feel some level of
Speaker 1: gratitude that the Bengals wanted to at least kick the
Speaker 1: tires and have you in for a look.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they didn't have to do that. I was I
Speaker 2: was at the time, probably four weeks away from being
Speaker 2: medically cleared to see if I could even give it
Speaker 2: a go. And the fact that that they gave me
Speaker 2: that opportunity, that was all I was asking for at
Speaker 2: that moment, because any I had nerve damage, So anytime
Speaker 2: you mess with a nerve, there's always the risk that
Speaker 2: it doesn't come back, and I had I had the
Speaker 2: surgery twice, so going into the second surgery, I knew
Speaker 2: it was a long shot, and I knew I wasn't
Speaker 2: physically there yet. But for them to give me the opportunity,
Speaker 2: knowing I'd grown up here in Cincinnati and what that
Speaker 2: organization had meant to me and this city means to me,
Speaker 2: I was and and we'll always be very appreciative of that.
Speaker 2: I wish I could have performed better. I wish, you know,
Speaker 2: the first date to me went really well, and I
Speaker 2: just didn't have the ability to bounce back. I didn't
Speaker 2: regain the feeling that allowed me to play at a
Speaker 2: high level the next day. I wish I could have,
Speaker 2: because I'd love to be more of a part of
Speaker 2: what's going on here. But certainly certainly grateful for.
Speaker 1: That answer to a great trivia question. Number five in
Speaker 1: a form fifteen at UC sixteen a Carolina, but number
Speaker 1: five in your time with Cincinnati as a Bengal, that's it.
Speaker 2: I didn't pick that number, by the way, it was
Speaker 2: whatever you want to give me outwhere.
Speaker 1: I'm sure. I'm sure Tony, you and Austin do a
Speaker 1: fantastic job on Sincy three sixty Love listening. Love being
Speaker 1: a guest, and I appreciate you coming on my podcast.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, thank you. I appreciate this greatly.
Speaker 1: That's going to do it for this episode of the
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