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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, breaking news tonight, A beautiful

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Speaker 1: and tenderhearted singer songwriter mutilated dead while walking her dog

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Speaker 1: in Atlanta's Piedmont Park. Could dog DNA crack the case?

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Speaker 1: Why weren't any of the park surveillance cameras working that night?

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Speaker 2: Of all nights, tonight?

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Speaker 1: Who murdered singer songwriter Katie Janice?

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Speaker 2: Good evening? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank

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Speaker 2: you for being.

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Speaker 1: With us Atlanta.

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Speaker 3: Now we want to operate a seven five. Now, let's

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Speaker 3: address yourself, he said.

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Speaker 4: He said.

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Speaker 3: Somebody heart all right? Yes, man almost spent out.

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Speaker 1: Why is this case unsolved? Katie brutally murdered, her body

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Speaker 1: mutilated and plain view in the park for Pete's sake,

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Speaker 1: a part that many of us have jogged around and around,

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Speaker 1: gone to picnics, gone to concerts right there in Plaine View.

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Speaker 2: Why is this case not solved?

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Speaker 1: You were hearing part of the nine one one call

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Speaker 1: That tells me a lot after I dissect it, but

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Speaker 1: listen to more.

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Speaker 5: You're the.

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Speaker 6: That's like children.

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Speaker 5: Yes, please, oh my god. You teams like like so.

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Speaker 3: I love to call radio.

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Speaker 1: Okay, mmmmm, I'm about to call Grady, Okay. That is

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Speaker 1: an inner city hospital well known for its emergency and

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Speaker 1: trauma unit, known across the country. But nothing could save

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Speaker 1: Katie Janis. Thank you for being with us. This case

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Speaker 1: has sparked so many theories as to what went wrong,

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Speaker 1: Why was so much DNA evidence? Has this case not

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Speaker 1: been solved, could dog DNA crack this case?

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Speaker 2: And why on that.

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Speaker 1: Night were the surveillance cameras not working? Joining me an

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Speaker 1: all star panel. But first to Eric Perry, investigative reporter

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Speaker 1: and anchor at Wagga Waga Fox five.

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Speaker 2: Eric who made the nine to one one call.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, you're listening to Ma Clark. That is her girl friend.

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Speaker 7: So they had earlier, just had dinner. She worked around

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Speaker 7: the corner, not even half a mile from the park,

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Speaker 7: and then when she didn't go home, they realized that

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Speaker 7: something was wrong. She didn't answer the call, and then

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Speaker 7: she was able to find her there right in the park.

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Speaker 7: And we're talking maybe a couple of feet one hundred

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Speaker 7: feet in the park. So if you're driving by there,

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Speaker 7: a very busy area, you would have been able to

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Speaker 7: see something if it was daylight outside.

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Speaker 8: But it was right there in that park there, But

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Speaker 8: it was her.

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Speaker 7: Girlfriend, longtime girlfriend that found the body mutilated.

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Speaker 1: There, you know to Dale Carson joining me, high profile

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Speaker 1: lawyer out of the Jacksonville jurisdiction, but for my purposes.

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Speaker 1: Former FBI agent, former cop in Miami Dade, you never

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Speaker 1: got a moment's rest in Miami Dade, and author of

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Speaker 1: arrest proof yourself. You can find him atdel Carson Law

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Speaker 1: dot Comdale. Typically, police look immediately at who found the body,

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Speaker 1: who's closest to the victim, and that both the answers

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Speaker 1: to both of those questions would be the roommate, Emma Clark.

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Speaker 2: But I'm not buying it, Dale Carson.

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Speaker 1: I want you to listen again to her voice, her

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Speaker 1: inflection in the nine to one one call.

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Speaker 3: Listen No One operator seven off five now address to

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Speaker 3: your emergency.

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Speaker 5: Part's to.

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Speaker 3: He said, if you do, he said, somebody heart, Yes please,

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Speaker 3: all right, yes, man, I'm gonna spend hop to you.

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Speaker 9: Oh where having a part?

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Speaker 5: You're the answerance?

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Speaker 6: Did you see that's my children?

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Speaker 10: Yes?

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Speaker 5: Please?

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Speaker 6: Oh my godness, seems.

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Speaker 5: Like she said that like it's so I love to

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Speaker 5: called radio.

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Speaker 1: Okay, of course I am not a you know, interpreter

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Speaker 1: of inflection. But after putting you know, thousands of witnesses

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Speaker 1: on the stand.

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Speaker 2: I've learned a little bit that sounds real to Medal Carson, I.

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Speaker 11: Absolutely agree, aside from which an attack of this nature

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Speaker 11: with a knife would result in a great deal of

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Speaker 11: blood scattering, and so the result would be she would

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Speaker 11: be also covered in blood at the time she made

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Speaker 11: the report, because obviously this just happened, and certainly investigators

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Speaker 11: are sophisticated enough to take her DNA check her for

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Speaker 11: blood or cuts herself and those sorts of things. I mean,

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Speaker 11: what we're looking at here, in my view, is a

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Speaker 11: disorganized killer. Is probably an assault that came out of nowhere, essentially,

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Speaker 11: and from my experiences directly at Piedmont Park in Atlanta

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Speaker 11: back in the seventies, this is a known area for

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Speaker 11: people to meet up for illicit behavior. So it is

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Speaker 11: a more dangerous area than one might be.

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Speaker 2: Hey, hey, hey, hold on, buddy, hold on.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what you were doing there in the seventies,

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Speaker 1: but where I lived the entire time I was a

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Speaker 1: prosecutor is three blocks from there, and I guarantee you

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Speaker 1: I was not in the park trying to hook up

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Speaker 1: for sex. Okay, So backtrack, I can believe that cir

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Speaker 1: Go bite. No, there's no indication that Katie Jennessa was

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Speaker 1: there looking for sex. I don't know what you're thinking. Man,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to give you. I'm putting you in the corner.

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Speaker 1: I'm giving you a few miles to think about what

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Speaker 1: you just said.

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Speaker 11: What there are odd people in that park?

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Speaker 2: Eighties odd?

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Speaker 12: Are you saying that there are people?

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Speaker 11: I know there is back access to the park that

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Speaker 11: is unavailable unless you know it's there off Westminster, And

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Speaker 11: when you go into that area, you're you're not You're

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Speaker 11: hidden from the general public.

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Speaker 13: What I'm saying is.

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Speaker 8: That there are.

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Speaker 1: From the Piedmont Driving Club, which abuts the park where

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Speaker 1: all the rich people go, that coming in secretly that way. Wait,

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Speaker 1: you know what, it doesn't matter, I hope, and I'm

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Speaker 1: going to.

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Speaker 2: Choose to believe the best of you.

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Speaker 1: Del Carson, former fair with the FBI that you meant

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Speaker 1: she may have encountered an odd person, which obviously she did,

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Speaker 1: because this woman is not odd.

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Speaker 11: She is nothing.

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Speaker 1: She's creative, she's a singer songwriter, she's in a stable relationship,

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Speaker 1: she's walking her dog.

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Speaker 2: She's a dog person.

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Speaker 1: For Pete's sake, I'm still going to give you a

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Speaker 1: time out. Let me go to doctor Kimdall Crowns while

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Speaker 1: Deal Carson composes himself. Kendall Crowns is joining us, guys.

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Speaker 1: He's the chief medical Examiner Terrant County. That's Fort Worth

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Speaker 1: lecturer of the Burnett School of Medicine at TCU. Literally

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Speaker 1: thousands somewhere in the range of ten thousand plus autopsies.

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Speaker 1: I want to talk to you, doctor Kendall Crowns, about

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Speaker 1: something very very disturbing. In addition to Katie Jenness being

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Speaker 1: murdered in playing view at the entrance. The entrance that's

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Speaker 1: by a red light where people are walking by of

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Speaker 1: Piedmont Park, that's like Atlanta's Central.

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Speaker 2: Park right there.

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Speaker 1: Look, I want to talk to you about how her

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Speaker 1: body was mutilated.

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Speaker 2: What are your thoughts?

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Speaker 9: So, mutilation is often with people who are very upset

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Speaker 9: with the individual, or it's showing as someone who has

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Speaker 9: a mental disease or something along those lines. That be

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Speaker 9: anytime you see mutilation, there's more to the story than

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Speaker 9: just a simple murder. Either the person knew them or

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Speaker 9: the individual had another deep lying problem. Another time we

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Speaker 9: see mutilation is when the individual doesn't die right away,

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Speaker 9: and the perpetrator starts just doing what we call overkill

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Speaker 9: and keeps stabbing and stabbing and stabbing until they die.

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Speaker 1: Regarding the mutilation on Katie Genness's body, listen, According.

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Speaker 12: To the autopsy report that the coroner published, she was

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Speaker 12: stabbed over fifty times, multiple times in her head and

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Speaker 12: her chest and her torso just over fifty times. There

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Speaker 12: have been some reports that there was a work carved

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Speaker 12: in her chest and it spelled out fat Fat.

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Speaker 4: Jens also had the letters F A T carved into

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Speaker 4: her lower chest and into her abdomen. The letters F

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Speaker 4: and A A are essentially to the right of the

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Speaker 4: mid line. As you cross over the mid line you

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Speaker 4: get to the letter T, and these letters are several

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Speaker 4: inches in LinkedIn wid Doctor Kendall Crown's.

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Speaker 1: Of course, when you are trying to decipher some words

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Speaker 1: or numbers carved into a victim's body, it's much like

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Speaker 1: the art, not science, art of forensic dentistry. Unless you've

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Speaker 1: got a very very unusual tooth configuration, it's not going

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Speaker 1: to work because it's like biting into jello.

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Speaker 2: How can you tell the pattern left in the skin.

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Speaker 1: It's movable, much like this but apparently it was decipherable.

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Speaker 2: How would that have been achieved?

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Speaker 1: How could you cut visible letters into the human body

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Speaker 1: like that and in that location on her body?

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Speaker 9: Well, it's cutting the letters, and it's a simple matter

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Speaker 9: of just pushing the knife into the skin and then

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Speaker 9: drawing it across and until you get the the insize

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Speaker 9: wound or the shape that you want, and then going

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Speaker 9: the other way. The letters cut into bodies don't really

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Speaker 9: necessarily look like cursive or well done. They're usually just

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Speaker 9: kind of very just lines, and you can do that

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Speaker 9: easily with a knife. Is just cutting lines in the

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Speaker 9: individual and making simple words.

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Speaker 4: Doctor, She's got a lot of injuries over the totality

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Speaker 4: of her torso her face. These are all anterior injuries.

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Speaker 4: They start actually at the forehead. There's even one I

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Speaker 4: think that goes to the very top of the head.

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Speaker 4: They go all the way across the surface of both eyes.

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Speaker 4: The lips are actually in size all the way down

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Speaker 4: to the chin, and there are multiple of these. Missus

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Speaker 4: Janis was actually sliced from that point at the zyphoid

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Speaker 4: all the way down to her pubis, and this injury

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Speaker 4: went so deep that loops of her intestines or bowels

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Speaker 4: were actually hanging out. The pathologists actually noted that there

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Speaker 4: was hemorrhage in the bowel. Her heart was beating.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Kendall Crowns her heart was beating during this, which

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Speaker 1: means she was alive for some of the desecration to

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Speaker 1: her body, the mutilation. For there to be hemorrhaging in

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Speaker 1: the bowel means the blood was circulated.

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Speaker 2: It's a bruise. Hemorrhage is a bruise.

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Speaker 1: You don't bruise if your heart's not beating because the

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Speaker 1: blood isn't circulating. There was hemorrhage in her bowel, which

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Speaker 1: means her heart was beating, which means she was alive.

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Speaker 2: What is the zyphoid.

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Speaker 9: The zyphoid is an area of your sternum or your

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Speaker 9: chest plate where it's a little kind of bony projection

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Speaker 9: that's kind of right at the base of your sternum,

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Speaker 9: right at the top of the abdomen. So that description

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Speaker 9: of that wound is basically right at the base of

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Speaker 9: her chest all the way down her abdomen. She has

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Speaker 9: a large, open, sharp force injury that goes through the

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Speaker 9: abdominal wall and then causes the intestines to just come

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Speaker 9: out of her a Donald cavity, so she was essentially

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Speaker 9: eviscerated by that wound to a degree.

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Speaker 2: Crime Stores with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 14: Catherine Katie Janice took her dog Bowie for a walk

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Speaker 14: in Atlanta's Piedmont Park. Katie went to see her girlfriend, Emma,

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Speaker 14: who was working down the street as a bartender. After

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Speaker 14: leaving the bar, Katie continued her walk. After work, Emma

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Speaker 14: went home that Katie wasn't there.

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Speaker 4: She should have been.

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Speaker 14: Back from the door walk by then, so Emma started

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Speaker 14: calling Katie's cell phone but did not get an answer,

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Speaker 14: and she said text messages they also went unanswered. That's

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Speaker 14: when the worry set in and Emma went out to

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Speaker 14: look for Katie.

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Speaker 15: Emma Warden as a bartender in a local bar right

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Speaker 15: there at the park. So Katie would walk Bowie to

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Speaker 15: the establishment and they would visit for a few minutes

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Speaker 15: while she was on break, and then while she'd finished

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Speaker 15: walking the dog another twenty or thirty minutes, Emma would

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Speaker 15: finish up her shift and they would meet back home

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Speaker 15: at the same time.

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Speaker 1: Joining us an All Star panel to Eric Perry, investigative

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Speaker 1: reporter and anchor at Fox five WAGA, that was their

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Speaker 1: usual routine. I see no reason to deviate from that

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Speaker 1: routine on that particular night, which tells me there was

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Speaker 1: only a thirty minute window in which Katy Jenness was killed.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, that was their usual routine, and Katie Jenness was

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Speaker 7: known in that area. I spent days after that homicide

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Speaker 7: talking to people in the area, and they all knew her.

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Speaker 8: They all remember seeing her, They knew Bowie the dog.

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Speaker 7: In fact, at the memorial you saw just as much

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Speaker 7: dog toys for Bowie then you saw flowers for Katie Jenness.

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Speaker 7: But they were both known there in the area. The

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Speaker 7: girlfriend was known, So this was what they did every day.

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Speaker 7: This was what should have been just an ordinary nightly

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Speaker 7: walk with the dog. Many people walk their dogs because

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Speaker 7: there is a sense of security.

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Speaker 8: This is tenthoned Piedmont if you're not familiar.

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Speaker 7: For those watching not familiar with Atlanta, this is tenth

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Speaker 7: and Piedmont. This is the midtown area, the heartbeat of

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Speaker 7: the city.

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Speaker 8: You have huge festivals.

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Speaker 7: So if you don't feel safe anywhere in the city,

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Speaker 7: there is a I guess now a false sense of

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Speaker 7: security that you feel there at Piedmont Park. But every night,

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Speaker 7: this is what they did, and when she didn't hear

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Speaker 7: anything from them. That's when emma'sa She went to the

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Speaker 7: looking for Katie and used her cell phone and the

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Speaker 7: tracking devices in the GPS, and that's when they found

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Speaker 7: her just right there at ten. And there's a high

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Speaker 7: school there as well, was called Grady High School. They

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Speaker 7: changed the name to Midtown High So you have a

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Speaker 7: high school there, you have homes there. There is an

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Speaker 7: open field that's right there where, close to where her

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Speaker 7: body was found, so many people feel safe there, even

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Speaker 7: if it is later in the night.

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Speaker 2: I mean, this is a neighborhood.

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Speaker 1: Back to Dale Carson, former fed with the FBI, now

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Speaker 1: defense lawyer Dale. I have run that Piedmont Park outside

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Speaker 1: circumference a million times, at Grady High School a million times.

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Speaker 2: My son has played soccer there a million times.

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Speaker 1: This is a family oriented area, although it is in

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Speaker 1: inner city Atlanta. So this out of the blue in

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Speaker 1: a thirty minute time below, that's a very unusual Del Carson.

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Speaker 10: It is, and it's close to an entrance, which makes

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Speaker 10: you know, an ambush assault more likely. If she had

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Speaker 10: a routine, then it's easy to follow someone who has

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Speaker 10: a routine over a period of time. So it's certainly

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Speaker 10: possible that someone set up on her, and clearly your

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Speaker 10: immy is correct. The assault of that nature shows an

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Speaker 10: anger and a frustration that is beyond the level of

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Speaker 10: just a homicide, and so we would be looking for

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Speaker 10: someone who frequented the area, knows this woman and is

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Speaker 10: simply lying in wait for her. I mean, to complete

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Speaker 10: the task of killing someone with a knife, particularly with

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Speaker 10: a violence that was demonstrated against the body, would take

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Speaker 10: a few moments, and certainly that's done in an area

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Speaker 10: that is likely to be exposed to a vehicle, traffic

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Speaker 10: or older people walking in the park. So someone engaging

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Speaker 10: in this activity in my view as a disorganized killer,

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Speaker 10: meaning you know they're mentally not perhaps stable, they are

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Speaker 10: clearly homicidal.

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Speaker 1: Well, I don't know that that rises to the level

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Speaker 1: of mental instability if you're trying to get toward insanity,

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Speaker 1: because up until right now they managed to outsmart apd

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Speaker 1: with me. Chris mcdonnah, director of the Cold Case Foundation,

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Speaker 1: former homicide detective with over three hundred homicide investigations under

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Speaker 1: his belt. I found him on the interview room on

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Speaker 1: YouTube during the Coburger investigation.

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Speaker 2: Chris, thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 1: I'm hearing what Dale Carson and doctor Kendall Crowns and

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Speaker 1: Eric Perry is saying, I'm about to go to our shrink,

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Speaker 1: doctor Angela Arnold. But Chris mcdonna, of course, the prosecutor

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Speaker 1: doesn't have to show motive ever. But we're saying this

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Speaker 1: is a target attack on Katie Jenness.

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Speaker 2: Somebody had to know her, They had to know her routine.

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Speaker 1: What about the fact that this is right there at

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Speaker 1: the entrance there are people walking by, including homeless people,

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Speaker 1: including all nature of people that are drawn to inner

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Speaker 1: city Atlanta for various reasons. What if it's someone that

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Speaker 1: just hates women in general. There was no sex attack.

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Speaker 1: This person actually killed her dog, Bowie as well, and they.

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Speaker 2: Took the time. They weren't worried about getting caught.

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Speaker 1: They took the time to mutilate her body with the

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Speaker 1: letters fat.

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Speaker 2: What can we discern from.

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Speaker 13: That, Nancy, There's a couple of things that you know

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Speaker 13: are coming through in my mind. One, when she was

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Speaker 13: presented at the autopsy, her under were down at her

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Speaker 13: niche number one. The second, to your point about the park,

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Speaker 13: it shows a familiarity and a comfortable position that the

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Speaker 13: suspect felt that they were in to potentially, you know,

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Speaker 13: blitzcreed the victim here. The fact that the victim had

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Speaker 13: a dog also shows that the suspect was comfortable potentially

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Speaker 13: seeing her in the past.

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Speaker 8: But I agree with you.

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Speaker 13: That this was a rage that this poor victim experienced

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Speaker 13: with the strikes to the head, multiple strikes to the body,

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Speaker 13: and then she was left out, you know, as if

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Speaker 13: she was just an item, where after he had experimented

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Speaker 13: by cutting into her skin, potentially by creating those lettering.

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Speaker 2: Very very critical point.

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Speaker 1: Eric Perry, joining us w AGA investigative reporter and anchor

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Speaker 1: Eric Chris mcdonna said something, well, everything he said was critical,

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Speaker 1: but the fact about her underwear being pulled down, her

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Speaker 1: pants and underwear being pulled down, they were not off,

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Speaker 1: and my knowledge, she was not raped, but the fact

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Speaker 1: that her underwear and pants were pulled down makes the

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Speaker 1: attack somewhat of a sexual nature. Whether the actual rape

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Speaker 1: could be affected or not.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, you know, many people are drawing their own conclusions.

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Speaker 7: Was this a hate crime?

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Speaker 8: Police?

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Speaker 7: Atlanta Police coming back saying they don't think it was.

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Speaker 7: And a lot of the details that we're hearing. Atlanta

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Speaker 7: Police shared a lot of this, and I think this

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Speaker 7: is what took frustration to outrage that something like this

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Speaker 7: could happen in that short window of time in such

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Speaker 7: a public place there and made it so uneasy and.

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Speaker 1: Oay, no, I don't see it to just go by

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Speaker 1: at this time with a day or night and go, oh,

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Speaker 1: she maybe gay. Let me kill her and her dog?

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Speaker 1: What are they dog hate too? My place was three

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Speaker 1: less than three blocks from that, so trying to connect

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Speaker 1: this to her sex preference, I don't think that's the answer.

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Speaker 1: I don't think that's the answer. But what is the answer.

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Speaker 14: Emma used to find my iPhone app on Katie's phone.

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Speaker 14: It showed Katie's phone was about one hundred yards inside

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Speaker 14: Piedmont Park, which was very close to Katie and Emma's home.

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Speaker 14: Emma thought maybe Katie had dropped the phone, so she

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Speaker 14: went into the park to find it. But what she

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Speaker 14: finds is a very gruesome scene. The first thing she

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Speaker 14: saw was Bowie. Bowie was dead. Not too far away,

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Speaker 14: Emma found Katie's body.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Kendall Crown's joining us for now medical examiner Terran

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Speaker 1: County fort Worth lecturer, Burnette's School of Medicine at TCU,

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Speaker 1: Doctor Kendall Crown's I want to analyze because I think

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Speaker 1: this is the key to the case, the fact that

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Speaker 1: the killer mutilated her body with the word fat. That

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Speaker 1: is unlike practically any homicide. I had a lot of stabbings,

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Speaker 1: a lot of dismemberings, but to actually write hate words

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Speaker 1: on the body, to carve them into the body, that's rare. Yes,

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Speaker 1: it's happened before, but it's still rare. I mean, think

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Speaker 1: about it, doctor Crowns. She's out at night walking her

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Speaker 1: dog and the person yanks her pants down, doesn't rape her,

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Speaker 1: but that is a way of humiliating a woman, to

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Speaker 1: leave her to be found that way, and then to

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Speaker 1: carve that fat into her abdomen. Help me think, doctor Crowns,

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Speaker 1: how will this helped me catch the killer?

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Speaker 9: So again, I agree it's very odd that they mutilated

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Speaker 9: the body, that it's odd that they wrote words on her.

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Speaker 9: I too, have done a lot of homicides, with stabbings

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Speaker 9: and domestic homicides, I have not actually seen a homicide

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Speaker 9: in which letters were written on the body. I've seen

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Speaker 9: suicides which in an individual cut words into their body,

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Speaker 9: but not homicides. So again, this is an odd case.

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Speaker 9: Obviously they had.

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Speaker 4: I still feel a.

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Speaker 9: Lot of rage at this time at the situation, to

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Speaker 9: kill her, to kill her dog. There's a lot going

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Speaker 9: on in that scene. And then the removal of the pants.

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Speaker 9: It could be they purposely did that to humiliate her,

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Speaker 9: or alternatively, it could be they dragged her and her

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Speaker 9: pants pulled down as well. Hard to say.

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Speaker 1: Joining us in addition to doctor Kendall Crown's is renowned

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Speaker 1: psychiatrist doctor angel Arnold. Joining us out of the Atlanta jurisdiction,

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Speaker 1: this jurisdiction where Katie Jenness was murdered. You can find

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Speaker 1: her at angela Arnold MD dot com Doctor Angie.

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Speaker 2: This has a plethora of.

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Speaker 1: Clues, but to discern them is a whole another thing.

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Speaker 16: Well, I seem to think that we need to break

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Speaker 16: it down there into a couple of options. First of all,

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Speaker 16: like everyone has said to you, Nancy, and you know

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Speaker 16: this as well, the people that the people that live

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Speaker 16: around Piedmont Park feel very safe around Piedmont Park. Okay,

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Speaker 16: we know that she had been to visit her girlfriend

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Speaker 16: at her place of park, her significant other, and then

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Speaker 16: she was simply walking her dog. So to me, I

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Speaker 16: wonder was this a burned other woman that was angry

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Speaker 16: with her and wanted to decimate her body because of

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Speaker 16: some sort of some sort of conflict she had had

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Speaker 16: with her, or was it a random act of violence

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Speaker 16: and she was just in the wrong place at the

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Speaker 16: wrong time at the park. And that's why no one

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Speaker 16: has been able to find this person, because whoever did it,

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Speaker 16: just as easily as you can, you can disappear back

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Speaker 16: into the park. Although I certainly don't understand why there

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Speaker 16: wasn't a blood trail that someone could follow. But I

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Speaker 16: think that if we look at it as just to me,

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Speaker 16: it seemed simple to break it down into the two

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Speaker 16: or three different kinds of people that could have done

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Speaker 16: this to her. It could have been completely random. I

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Speaker 16: don't think whoever did it was completely mentally ill or

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Speaker 16: psychotic at the time. If they were able to carve

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Speaker 16: the word fat onto her, as has been said, to

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Speaker 16: just desecrate her even more. I mean, why does somebody

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Speaker 16: have to carve that onto a woman, right and then

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Speaker 16: pull her And then it's interesting because I wonder if

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Speaker 16: it was another woman who did this to her and

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Speaker 16: pulled her pants down to make it seem like it

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Speaker 16: was a man, that may have done this to her.

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Speaker 16: That's just what I've thought.

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Speaker 1: Now, that is a theory. That is a theory I

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Speaker 1: hadn't thought on.

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Speaker 2: Crime stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 1: Pat Of doctor Kenmell Crown's chief medical examiner, Terren County

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Speaker 1: Fort Worths, Doctor crowns, if I had heard the word

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Speaker 1: fat was carved into her, I would think that that

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Speaker 1: was an urban myth.

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't believe it, But.

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Speaker 1: It is in the autopsy report that that is what

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Speaker 1: the physician, the medical examiner believed, And normally there's an

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Speaker 1: attendee that.

441
00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:34,119
Speaker 2: Would probably have been talking going, yeah, that's what it says.

442
00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:39,720
Speaker 1: That adds a lot of credence to fat being carved

443
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:42,359
Speaker 1: into her. Or you've got a doctor that could use

444
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:44,360
Speaker 1: a magnifying glass.

445
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:46,200
Speaker 2: To really look at the words the letters.

446
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:49,640
Speaker 1: I don't know how big the letters were, but there's

447
00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:52,600
Speaker 1: no doubt in the autopsy report that is what was

448
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:53,720
Speaker 1: carved into her body.

449
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:56,760
Speaker 9: Yes, from reviewing the autopsy report, and it does appear

450
00:27:56,840 --> 00:28:01,520
Speaker 9: that it is the letter's fat carved into her body. Again,

451
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:05,840
Speaker 9: you know, they're easier letters to do. That's the people

452
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:08,680
Speaker 9: that I've seen carved words under their body usually use

453
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:12,360
Speaker 9: simple letters. You can't usually carve a G very easily

454
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:14,720
Speaker 9: or a D, but F, A and T are easy

455
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:17,960
Speaker 9: enough to carve. But it is very unusual. Again, like

456
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:20,520
Speaker 9: I just said before that I have not seen that

457
00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:23,760
Speaker 9: in a homicide. I have seen it in suicides. So

458
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:28,879
Speaker 9: I agree with the psychiatrist apologize. I can't remember her

459
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:32,639
Speaker 9: name that it's it's very odd, and I think it

460
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:34,800
Speaker 9: could be someone that knows her. It could be another woman.

461
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:37,240
Speaker 9: It's just the whole thing is very strange.

462
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 3: I want to operate a seven.

463
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:59,440
Speaker 5: Preaching to myself at first, All right, yes, man, all

464
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:00,240
Speaker 5: the send house for you.

465
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:10,920
Speaker 3: Where having a part? You're the entrance.

466
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:27,920
Speaker 6: That's like chilfriend, yes, please, oh my god, your ends,

467
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:29,720
Speaker 6: like she said, sad like it's so.

468
00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:32,200
Speaker 3: I love to call radio.

469
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 2: Okay, the mayor speaking out, did it do any good?

470
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:41,560
Speaker 17: Listen, you've also seen a murder in our city, the

471
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 17: likes of which we have not seen and quite some

472
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:53,320
Speaker 17: time there was a horrific murder of Catherine Jonas, the

473
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:59,240
Speaker 17: victim who was found at Pete Mont Park. Unfortunately, we

474
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:02,680
Speaker 17: still don't have all of the information that we need

475
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:04,960
Speaker 17: in her murder to make an arrest.

476
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:10,960
Speaker 2: Okay, So the mayor finally spoke, but she didn't address this.

477
00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 18: Listen, We'll be releasing still photos assists individuals that were

478
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:21,720
Speaker 18: in and around Pemont Park, and what we're hoping is

479
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 18: that these individuals will come forward and to let us

480
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:28,360
Speaker 18: know and hope that they saw something while in the park.

481
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:32,680
Speaker 1: Six people on a list joining me, All Star Panel,

482
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:36,600
Speaker 1: Eric Perry joining US anchor investigative reporter Waga.

483
00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:39,160
Speaker 2: What about the six people on the list?

484
00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:41,080
Speaker 8: Many people wanted to know who these people were.

485
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:44,560
Speaker 7: They released the images of some of the people there,

486
00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:47,800
Speaker 7: and then you asked the question didn't do any good.

487
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:50,080
Speaker 8: I actually don't know if it did any good for

488
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:50,880
Speaker 8: her benefit.

489
00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:53,040
Speaker 2: Well, you're right, Eric Parry.

490
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:58,480
Speaker 1: And another thing that was not addressed is the surveillance

491
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:00,400
Speaker 1: cameras in that part.

492
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:04,360
Speaker 18: Listen, the evidence is going to dictate where our investigation goes.

493
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 18: The cameras are just a tool that usually just helps

494
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:12,040
Speaker 18: us and aise us in investigations. But I have some

495
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:15,640
Speaker 18: talented men and women or in two twenty six p p.

496
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:19,760
Speaker 18: Stree Street that know how to solve crimes without anything

497
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:22,160
Speaker 18: other than just the evidence at hand.

498
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:25,160
Speaker 2: What man is he trying to see?

499
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:25,480
Speaker 1: Why?

500
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:29,160
Speaker 2: A right there? Hey, yeah, we can solve this evidence

501
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:33,200
Speaker 2: with nothing. He just said that. He just said that,

502
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:37,800
Speaker 2: And that is a very poor job of covering up the.

503
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 1: Fact that they knew, the city knew those cameras did

504
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:49,040
Speaker 1: not work. The software was obsolete and had been obsolete.

505
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:49,760
Speaker 2: For a long time.

506
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:53,920
Speaker 1: But that was just aoka while they support and pay

507
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:59,160
Speaker 1: for every boondoggle they felt like as fat cat politicians

508
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:02,080
Speaker 1: instead of taking care of the people in that part.

509
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:02,880
Speaker 2: What about that?

510
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:07,320
Speaker 1: And they're still in office. It's amazing, nothing happened to

511
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 1: these people. They all still have jobs, they'd gone on

512
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:13,720
Speaker 1: to do other things in their career.

513
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:15,040
Speaker 2: Nothing happened.

514
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:19,360
Speaker 1: It's like, oh, yeah, a security camera was pointed right

515
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:23,240
Speaker 1: at the murder spot, but it wasn't working.

516
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 2: Darn what why didn't hands roll?

517
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:29,560
Speaker 7: Yeah, And that was a public outcry we saw in

518
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 7: the days afterwards when they realized that the cameras weren't working.

519
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:35,960
Speaker 7: But many people we see the cameras, so you would

520
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:38,360
Speaker 7: assume that they were working, and you'll think that, oh,

521
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:41,760
Speaker 7: it's right there, you see it, right there is exactly

522
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 7: where all this was. This is where the vigil was,

523
00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:47,000
Speaker 7: this is where the memorial took place. So when people

524
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:49,680
Speaker 7: realized that this wasn't connected to what they call their

525
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:52,840
Speaker 7: integral system to where they can save the video. They

526
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:55,320
Speaker 7: can go back and review the video, and the video

527
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:59,360
Speaker 7: will connect directly to Atlanta nine one one center.

528
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 8: That is where we saw the outcry.

529
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:04,320
Speaker 7: It took an additional nine months for that system that

530
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:08,440
Speaker 7: was promised when the murder happened to actually be in place,

531
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:11,640
Speaker 7: and it was delayed and delayed and delayed to nine

532
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:14,240
Speaker 7: months later to when it finally actually happened. So we

533
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:17,440
Speaker 7: found that period after the murder where it still wasn't

534
00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:19,719
Speaker 7: connected to Atlanta police system.

535
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:24,720
Speaker 2: Question, Eric pearriy, has it been fixed yet?

536
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:25,640
Speaker 8: It has?

537
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:30,280
Speaker 7: It has so now they promised that those cameras are integrated,

538
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:34,280
Speaker 7: they have the ability to save it. But many people

539
00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:36,160
Speaker 7: say it's a little bit too late because the worst

540
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:37,040
Speaker 7: has already been done.

541
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:41,360
Speaker 1: Did you actually say they promised? Did you say that, Eric,

542
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:42,520
Speaker 1: because I think you did.

543
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:43,040
Speaker 11: They did?

544
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:47,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, and that and eight dollars at Starbucks will

545
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:50,680
Speaker 1: buy you a cup of coffee. Okay, let's move forward

546
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:53,320
Speaker 1: with this investigation and try not to pay attention to

547
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:59,520
Speaker 1: what politicians are saying. So the girlfriend finds the body

548
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:04,240
Speaker 1: while she is out looking for Katie and she finds

549
00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:08,359
Speaker 1: it by using to find my iPhone app to Chris

550
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:12,120
Speaker 1: mcdunne joining me, homicide detective now founder of the Cold

551
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:16,360
Speaker 1: Case Foundation. I found him on his interview The interview

552
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:18,680
Speaker 1: room is channel on YouTube. Chris, I got to hear

553
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:21,680
Speaker 1: your analysis. Now that you've heard everything we've discussed and.

554
00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 13: Antel, there's a couple of things that I think are important. One,

555
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:29,680
Speaker 13: we're coming up on three years here in July, and

556
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:33,360
Speaker 13: so I think the authorities need to be aware that

557
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:36,359
Speaker 13: those cameras had better be working because there's a high

558
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:40,440
Speaker 13: probability the suspect may return to that particular area. The

559
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:47,359
Speaker 13: second thing is the phone pings that Emma utilized that night.

560
00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:50,440
Speaker 13: That was a really smart move, to be honest with you,

561
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:53,239
Speaker 13: And when I heard the nine one one call, my

562
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:58,680
Speaker 13: first impression was she's in shock. One hundred percent, she's

563
00:34:58,800 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 13: losing her breath.

564
00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:01,880
Speaker 11: She's just just in.

565
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:06,680
Speaker 13: Total shock with I'm curious as to where the dog

566
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:12,400
Speaker 13: was found and then where her body was ultimately found,

567
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:16,520
Speaker 13: because if they're separated like that, and then she was

568
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:20,799
Speaker 13: being pursued and chased potentially, and that really does put

569
00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:24,720
Speaker 13: the suspect into another level. To your point earlier, Nancy

570
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:30,800
Speaker 13: that this guy just hates women, and potentially she was

571
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:34,920
Speaker 13: the target that evening. Maybe randomly, maybe selective. I mean,

572
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:38,080
Speaker 13: there's evidence of both, but to keep an open mind

573
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:40,480
Speaker 13: at this point, this guy knew what he was doing

574
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:41,840
Speaker 13: when he attacked her that evening.

575
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:44,839
Speaker 1: I agree that it's a man because this degree brutality

576
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:50,520
Speaker 1: is rarely saying statistically in women. So now the police

577
00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:55,440
Speaker 1: are at this point, they're begging for tips, and I

578
00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:57,680
Speaker 1: can't take it in because there's.

579
00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:01,240
Speaker 2: So much evidence. So there has to be DNA evidence.

580
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:07,040
Speaker 2: There has to be, but still nowhere ast a police

581
00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:08,880
Speaker 2: are begging for evidence.

582
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:12,560
Speaker 19: Listen, we're also asking if you saw anyone with any

583
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:20,200
Speaker 19: unexplained injuries, an intense attraction to this case in the media,

584
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:25,080
Speaker 19: a change in appearance, changing hair color, changing any type

585
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:30,160
Speaker 19: of facial hair, an absence of school work, come forward,

586
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:33,680
Speaker 19: give us a call. There's nothing insignificant that we won't

587
00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:35,960
Speaker 19: take and there's nothing that we will not follow up on.

588
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:39,359
Speaker 8: The incident in Pete Mountain Park.

589
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:45,719
Speaker 20: It was my decision to call upon the FBI after

590
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:49,920
Speaker 20: having conversations with Chief Hampton on what we had in

591
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:54,560
Speaker 20: the park. This homicide, this murder was outside the norm

592
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:57,360
Speaker 20: of what we would typically see. This was so unique

593
00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:01,719
Speaker 20: that I felt that we needed to collaborate with as

594
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:05,319
Speaker 20: many resources as we possibly can, and therefore I ask

595
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:09,239
Speaker 20: the chief to get in touch with the FBI immediately.

596
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:14,080
Speaker 1: Thank heaven Dale Carson joining me, lawyer oid of Jacksonville.

597
00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:19,840
Speaker 1: Former FBI Dale Carson, you're also a beat cop. Thank goodness.

598
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:22,600
Speaker 1: The FBI is called in, but still no arrest.

599
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:26,920
Speaker 10: Well, they'll use the behavioral science unit to verify and

600
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:30,080
Speaker 10: validate a lot of what we've spoken about here on camera.

601
00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:34,879
Speaker 1: Are you serious behavioral science? They're gonna say the same

602
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:38,840
Speaker 1: thing they always say, it's a lonely white guy that

603
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:39,880
Speaker 1: hates women.

604
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:41,160
Speaker 2: They always say the same thing.

605
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:44,520
Speaker 10: Well, it's a little more precise than that. If you

606
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:48,400
Speaker 10: look at some of the reports, it'll discuss things like

607
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:53,400
Speaker 10: who the individual might have been, the indicators, what brought

608
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:58,280
Speaker 10: this about. And for example, we learned that rapists typically

609
00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:02,600
Speaker 10: follow certain profiles, and their behavior on the street away

610
00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:06,360
Speaker 10: from the victim can be fairly easily identified based on

611
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:09,960
Speaker 10: their behavior, the possessions they have. They have a truck,

612
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:13,880
Speaker 10: they drink Budweiser beer, they have a dog. All of

613
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:17,279
Speaker 10: those kind of things will help isolate out people who

614
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:20,560
Speaker 10: moved around the Piedmont area. But I want to draw

615
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:23,960
Speaker 10: your attention back to the fat word that was cut

616
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:25,000
Speaker 10: into the body.

617
00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:29,440
Speaker 13: To me, that says that that is the reason for

618
00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:30,760
Speaker 13: the attack.

619
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:36,000
Speaker 10: That someone thinks that this poor woman, the deceased here

620
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:41,279
Speaker 10: offended them or rejected them because they were fat, and

621
00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:46,719
Speaker 10: therefore wrote the word on her abdomen. And for what

622
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:53,080
Speaker 10: I read in the autopsy report, her genitalia was both

623
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:59,400
Speaker 10: her breasts and her vagina were eviscerated, and that's an

624
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:03,440
Speaker 10: indication from my perspective that it was a mail attack.

625
00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:03,919
Speaker 2: Yes.

626
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:07,560
Speaker 1: Agree, guys, take a listen to the APD Deputy Chief

627
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:08,520
Speaker 1: Charles Hampton Junior.

628
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:14,200
Speaker 18: This is a case that rely heavily on biological evidence,

629
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:20,040
Speaker 18: heavily on technology evidence, and those things also take time.

630
00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:23,160
Speaker 18: Some things are out of our control and so we

631
00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:26,840
Speaker 18: have to wait until things come back. And again, that

632
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:31,960
Speaker 18: could be a data coming back from carriers phone carriers.

633
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:34,320
Speaker 1: Does that mean they're bringing in or did bring in

634
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:36,960
Speaker 1: Chris mc don a sting rate to get a data

635
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:39,280
Speaker 1: dump of all the cell phones used in that area

636
00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:42,320
Speaker 1: in that one hour period, because that's what it sounds

637
00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:42,719
Speaker 1: like to me.

638
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:46,960
Speaker 13: Yeah, absolutely, Nancy and That information then will be dumped

639
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:50,640
Speaker 13: into a program called Gladiator, and they'll be able to,

640
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:54,680
Speaker 13: you know, pull a digital footprint of who's around that area.

641
00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:59,840
Speaker 1: Guys, if you know or think you know anything about

642
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:07,160
Speaker 1: the murder of this singer songwriter, beloved Katie Jens, please

643
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:12,560
Speaker 1: dial four zero four five seven seven tips four zero

644
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:17,160
Speaker 1: four five seven seven eight four seven seven.

645
00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:19,000
Speaker 2: We stopped to.

646
00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:25,719
Speaker 1: Remember Euclid, Ohio Police officer Jacob Durbin, just twenty three

647
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:31,400
Speaker 1: years old. Jacob Durbin ambushed and shot responding to a

648
00:40:31,719 --> 00:40:36,120
Speaker 1: disturbance call. A US VET of the Army National Guard,

649
00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:43,440
Speaker 1: he served in Kuwait, recently engaged. He survived by a

650
00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:50,319
Speaker 1: grieving fiance, live mother Don Marie, and father Vince American

651
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:56,279
Speaker 1: hero Euclid PD Jacob Durbin. I want to thank all

652
00:40:56,320 --> 00:41:01,400
Speaker 1: of our truly amazing guests, the brain trust that joins

653
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:05,120
Speaker 1: us here every night, but especially to you for being

654
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:08,880
Speaker 1: with us tonight and every night. Nancy Gray signing off,

655
00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:10,239
Speaker 1: good night friend,