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Speaker 1: You guys know, I think cookbooks and menus are a

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Speaker 1: form of literature. Read a lot of these ridiculous historians

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Speaker 1: Max Noll and I they called me Ben. We had

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Speaker 1: a we had a moment in January of twenty eighteen

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Speaker 1: where we got super into.

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Speaker 2: Gelatin Into is maybe a strong way of putting it.

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Speaker 2: I think jello on its own is a delightful treat.

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Speaker 2: It's locale, it's squishy, and it goes down easy if

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Speaker 2: you have a sore throat. Great for hospital days. You know,

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Speaker 2: I'm a big fan of line personally. I don't know

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Speaker 2: what you guys's favorite jello flavors are.

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Speaker 1: I can't believe we used to be friends.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'm sorry, I just I'm a little basically blue,

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Speaker 2: well blue, what is blue?

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Speaker 1: Jealous flavor? Blue? Yeah, we have a blue drink. We

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Speaker 1: have an episode on artificial flavoring coming up in the future,

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Speaker 1: in the future of ridiculous history. And gelatine itself is

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Speaker 1: an amazing technology. I mean, it's it's ancient, but it's

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Speaker 1: also I don't know, it's still so fascinating. It's so fun.

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Speaker 1: I'm a person who plays with my food. I love

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Speaker 1: that stuff.

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Speaker 2: Remember Jello jigglers guy, Yeah, itello that you'd cut out

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Speaker 2: with cookie cutters, and oh man, there was a golden

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Speaker 2: time when Bill Cosby before we knew too much about that.

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Speaker 2: Oh boy, he was the guy and he was the jigglers.

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Speaker 2: All that stuff didn't age very well now that we know. Uh.

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Speaker 2: But here's the thing. Jello in that form and it's

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Speaker 2: purest form, the little bit of food coloring and some

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Speaker 2: sweetener and you know whatever artificial flavoring a delight. Well,

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Speaker 2: you start mixing in mayonnaise and olives and pickles and

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Speaker 2: celery and shoot of slivers of meat, oh geez, or

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Speaker 2: the earlier versions of it with things called aspects, which

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Speaker 2: would be a gelatine kind of with meat chunks, you know,

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Speaker 2: sort of suspended there. It really it becomes pretty cursed.

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Speaker 2: There's an actually what I was looking for and talk

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Speaker 2: was this guy has a channel called I Spy Antiques.

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Speaker 2: He does a video where he tries to make a

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Speaker 2: jello salad that he found in his grandmother's recipe book

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Speaker 2: and he makes it in like a lamb cake mold

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Speaker 2: and it ends up being this just cursed green, weird lumpy.

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Speaker 2: It's got like green peppers in it. He takes a

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Speaker 2: bite and it's just like he he curses God.

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Speaker 1: Essentially, I never understood it, and that's what that's what

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Speaker 1: comes to the forefront in today's classic episode. If you

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Speaker 1: like us, are alive in twenty twenty four and you're

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Speaker 1: wondering why why did gelatine become such a thing. Nowadays

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Speaker 1: it's relegated to the world the desserts. But once upon

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Speaker 1: a time, folks, as we will learn together today, gelatine

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Speaker 1: was considered like a savory medium, a savory path for

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Speaker 1: a main dish. And it's just it's it's a centerpiece.

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Speaker 1: Dare we say, you know, we say, yeah, yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: a It's a cavalcade of culinary catastrophe. Anyway, here it

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Speaker 1: is ridiculous History. Is a production of iHeartRadio, America's most

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Speaker 1: famous dessert. There's always room for Jel. Hello, my name

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Speaker 1: is Ben. I know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's gonna take me a minute to wrap my

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Speaker 2: head around. It's not worth it, No, it is worth it.

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Speaker 2: You you you kind of just broke my brain. But

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Speaker 2: I guess I'm Noel and I think this is ridiculous history.

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Speaker 2: And today we're talking about Gello, but not just any

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Speaker 2: gel I mean, we're gonna cover, We're gonna run the

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Speaker 2: game of all gelatinous products, but specifically today we're talking

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Speaker 2: about meat jello.

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Speaker 1: It's a real thing, and it's something that you and

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Speaker 1: I and our super producer Casey Pegrin have talked about

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Speaker 1: off air in the past, before we even started doing

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Speaker 1: this show, which is amazing when you think about it,

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Speaker 1: You and I and Casey and probably some of you

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Speaker 1: friends and neighbors have a preoccupation, a morbid fascination with gelatine.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's true. I mean, I have a very distinct

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Speaker 2: memory from my childhood, and it was my mother really

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Speaker 2: prided herself on doing these very elegant table settings, and

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Speaker 2: she carried on this tradition from her mother, who always

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Speaker 2: used to make a little side dish with the alarmingly

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Speaker 2: odd name of gentleman's salad. What is this gentleman's salad?

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Speaker 2: You might ask?

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Speaker 1: What is this gentleman's salad?

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Speaker 2: I thought you might ask. I'll tell you what it is.

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Speaker 2: Ben is a thing that was very in all the

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Speaker 2: rage of the highest of fashion in the fifties and sixties,

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Speaker 2: mid century and beyond, fell out of fashion a closer

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Speaker 2: to the late seventies the early eighties. But we'll get

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Speaker 2: to that. But what gentleman salad is is a molded

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Speaker 2: gelatinous I don't know if it's a dessert. It's not

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Speaker 2: really served in the place of a dessert. It's sort

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Speaker 2: of a pre meal thing like you'd eat a salad.

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Speaker 2: But it's not a leafy green No, it's a weird

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Speaker 2: little gelatinous mound of lime green stuff that's kind of

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Speaker 2: full of nuts, chopped nuts and marshmallows, I want to say,

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Speaker 2: and topped with a dollop of crim fresh or horseradish, oh,

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Speaker 2: if you want to get spicy right exactly. And it's

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Speaker 2: one of these things that as a kid, my mom

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Speaker 2: insisted that I take a bite, even though I just

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Speaker 2: it was just one of those things I just didn't trust.

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Speaker 2: My little kid brain kind of recoiled at it. It

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Speaker 2: didn't taste awful, the horseradish, but that was apparently I

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Speaker 2: was missing out on the full impact of the dish.

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Speaker 2: But this was a thing, and not just meat jella,

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Speaker 2: but jello in general. Gelatin salads was a very easy

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Speaker 2: way for home cooks to show kind of like opulence

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Speaker 2: and class and elegance.

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Speaker 1: And today, we often think of a salad as something

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Speaker 1: with leafy greens, right, with fresh herbs, fresh vegetables, a

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Speaker 1: little bit of cheese, and maybe some protein in the

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Speaker 1: form of nuts or tun or whatever. But a salad

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Speaker 1: essentially is only a mixture of different ingredients. So when

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Speaker 1: we're saying gelatine salad, we are accurately describing this strange

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Speaker 1: phenomenon of throwing everything and the kitchen sink into gelatine.

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Speaker 1: And gelatin is a very strange thing when you think

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Speaker 1: about it. We know that it's ancient, that traces of

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Speaker 1: gelatin were found in ancient Egypt, and we generally in

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Speaker 1: the West trace the use of gelatin as a food

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Speaker 1: stuff to medieval England.

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Speaker 2: That's right. I actually found a gelatin recipe from seventeen

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Speaker 2: forty seven from a London cookbook, from an author by

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Speaker 2: the name of Hannah Glass. And we'll go into a

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Speaker 2: little bit more of the modern ways of making gelatin,

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Speaker 2: but this is the old school way. I'm going to

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Speaker 2: read this verbatim because it is delightful. So first, take

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Speaker 2: out the great bones of four calves feet and put

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Speaker 2: the feet into a pot with ten quarts of water,

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Speaker 2: three ounces of horse shorn, three ounces of ling glass,

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Speaker 2: a nutmeg quartered, four blades of mace. Then boil this

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Speaker 2: till it comes to two quarts and strain it through

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Speaker 2: a flannel bag. Let it stand twenty four hours. Then

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Speaker 2: scrape all the fat from the top very clean. Then

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Speaker 2: slice it and put to it the whites of six

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Speaker 2: eggs beaten to froth. Boil it a little and strain

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Speaker 2: it again through a flannel bag. Then run the jelly

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Speaker 2: into little high glasses. You may add orange flower water

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Speaker 2: or wine, and sugar and lemon if you please. But

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Speaker 2: this is all fancy.

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Speaker 1: As you can see. We are fans of collecting recipes

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Speaker 1: from olden days, and we have found that the measurements

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Speaker 1: get kind of iffy and ad hockey. But this is

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Speaker 1: this is a real recipe. And if you have these calves,

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Speaker 1: hoofs or some orange water. Was it orange water or sugar?

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Speaker 1: It was orange flower water, orange flower water. If you

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Speaker 1: have this, please feel free to make it. Please send

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Speaker 1: us pictures. I know all three of us would love

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Speaker 1: to see it. Nowadays we use the term jello synonymously

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Speaker 1: with gelatin, but Jello is a name brand with a

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Speaker 1: history of its own. The mix up here the conflation

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Speaker 1: is similar to the way that people say google as

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Speaker 1: a verb when they're referring to any Internet So.

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Speaker 2: Like Kleenex for any kind of tissue.

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Speaker 1: Or like xerox for copiers or gelatin itself brand names

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Speaker 1: aside is a translucent, colorless and flavorless thing on its own,

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Speaker 1: and you make it using collagen from various animal parts,

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Speaker 1: as we saw in our recipe with calves hooves. It's

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Speaker 1: not just used in food. It's commonly used as a

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Speaker 1: gelling agent in food, but it's used in a bunch

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Speaker 1: of non food applications as well, photography, vitamin capsules.

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Speaker 2: Sure, and the way it's made today is obviously much

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Speaker 2: more of an industrial process. And just to kind of

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Speaker 2: give you the quick and dirty of how it's made today,

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Speaker 2: it's made using largely washed pigskins that are then cleaned.

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Speaker 2: I actually found a video online where it shows the

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Speaker 2: process in reverse from a nice little gummy bear being

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Speaker 2: popped into someone's mouth, backward to all the different steps

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Speaker 2: of the manufacturing process until it ends up with a

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Speaker 2: cute little piggy looking you in the eye. I think

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Speaker 2: it was kind of designed to make you feel bad

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Speaker 2: about eating gummies, but we're not here to tell you

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Speaker 2: what to do. We are here to tell you how

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Speaker 2: gelatin is made. So these cleaned pigskins are washed and

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Speaker 2: then they are soaked and they're given an acid treatment,

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Speaker 2: and the idea is to break down the tissues so

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Speaker 2: that the collagen is kind of made into smaller chunks

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Speaker 2: in these strands of gelatin that they call it gelatin noodles.

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Speaker 2: In the manufacturing process, they thicken when they're cooled, and

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Speaker 2: then various stages of hot water extraction is done, and

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Speaker 2: it's done up to six or seven times, with the

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Speaker 2: temperature of the water being raised for every step. And

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Speaker 2: the earliest extractions are apparently the more powerful, or I

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Speaker 2: guess they hold their shape better, and the subsequent extractions

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Speaker 2: it becomes a little bit weaker.

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Speaker 1: And one of the things that baffles us about this

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Speaker 1: process is that most people growing up don't know the

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Speaker 1: gelatine or your favorite flavor of jello does derive ultimately

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Speaker 1: from these animal proteins. I think, you know, it's not

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Speaker 1: quite on the level of Santa Claus spoiler alert everybody,

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Speaker 1: but I think a lot of kids have no understanding

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Speaker 1: of the origin of gelatin that we just walked through

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Speaker 1: and today we're asking why jello and gelatin fiend food

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Speaker 1: dishes became so prevalent for a time. It was a

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Speaker 1: fat They rose and they fell, and you can find

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Speaker 1: different cookbooks or different articles citing this rise. But we

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Speaker 1: wanted to track down the answer. And I want to

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Speaker 1: give a big shout out to Dan Myers over at

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Speaker 1: the Daily Meal. In January of last year, he tackled

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Speaker 1: this question about why there were so many gelatin based

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Speaker 1: dishes in the nineteen fifties and the nineteen sixties. And

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Speaker 1: you know, you and I have looked through these old

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Speaker 1: recipes and it's true jello today is treated mainly as

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Speaker 1: a dessert, but during that time period it would be

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Speaker 1: the entire meal. You would have the sweet and the

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Speaker 1: savory together in this mold. There's really no other way

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Speaker 1: to say it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and those molds themselves were staples of mid century

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Speaker 2: kitchens and all kinds of shapes. But this goes way

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Speaker 2: way farther back than the nineteen fifties and sixties, far

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Speaker 2: back really to medieval England.

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Speaker 1: And while while we're here in the medieval era in

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Speaker 1: Western Europe, we need to add a we need to

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Speaker 1: add another aspect to the story another aspect to the

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Speaker 1: story gross, I'm proud of that one. So one of

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Speaker 1: the one of the most important things about gelatine, aside

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Speaker 1: from it being a luxurious food stuff, is that it

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Speaker 1: was a pretty effective preserve. We have to remember that

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Speaker 1: this was centuries before anything like refrigeration existed totally.

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Speaker 2: And also not to mention an article from history dot

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Speaker 2: com called Jiggle It The History of Geladin's Aspects and Jellies.

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Speaker 2: The writer Nate Barksdale mentions the fact that, you know,

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Speaker 2: we've talked about this in the Protestant Reformation and Butter episode.

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Speaker 2: Catholics were not allowed to eat meat on Fridays, so

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Speaker 2: there were late medieval cooks who came up with ways

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Speaker 2: of making jelly out of fish, and that was like

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Speaker 2: they would boil fish stock, even use the swim bladders

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Speaker 2: and an eels were ways of making these meat jellies.

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Speaker 2: And there was another fish jelly product called icing glass

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Speaker 2: that was made using sturgeon. So this was a way

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Speaker 2: of being able to preserve that food and also you know,

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Speaker 2: not eat pig products.

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Speaker 1: And jellied eels, by the way, are a traditional English

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Speaker 1: dish that is still popular today. And I really want

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Speaker 1: to try it. Have you ever tried jellied eals? Just

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Speaker 1: on the off chance we didn't talk about Oh no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: you're not into.

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Speaker 2: It, not for me, thank you?

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Speaker 1: Well, well, you know, let's put a pin in it.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to pear pressure you, but you know,

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Speaker 1: what is life if not to be lived my old friend.

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Speaker 2: One more little story in Japan, even in the late

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Speaker 2: sixteen hundreds, from the same hisstory dot com article, there

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Speaker 2: was an innkeeper from Kyoto named Minoya Tarizoman who found

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Speaker 2: some congealed soup, some fish soup that had been thrown

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Speaker 2: away and discarded, and noticed that it was congealing. So

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Speaker 2: that kind of became the inspiration for seaweed jellies that

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Speaker 2: became quite popular throughout.

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Speaker 1: Asia and remain popular today. So we're doing pretty well

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Speaker 1: going chronologically here. Let's look at the first patent. The

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Speaker 1: first patent for the manufacturer of gelatin arrives in seventeen

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Speaker 1: fifty four in England and at the time kind of

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Speaker 1: a novelty, but everybody knew about it. It's just now

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Speaker 1: somebody got the rights to it and it took off,

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Speaker 1: especially with the upper crust.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true, and it wasn't the patent that was

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Speaker 2: going to really win the day for gelatin based products.

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Speaker 2: That comes a little later, but we do have the

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Speaker 2: introduction of kind of someone you could consider to be

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Speaker 2: the world's first celebrity chef, a man by the name

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Speaker 2: of Marie Antoine Karame, and in an NPR piece by

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Speaker 2: Nicole Jankowski, she kind of describes how Karame really revolutionized

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Speaker 2: the use of gelatin for these opulent culinary creations. He

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Speaker 2: was actually born the sixteenth child of very very poor

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Speaker 2: parents in Paris in the late seventeen hundreds, either seventeen

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Speaker 2: eighty three or seventeen eighty four, and was abandoned by

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Speaker 2: his parents during the most violent days of the French Revolution.

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Speaker 2: Worked his way up from a kitchen boy to a

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Speaker 2: apprentice of a well known pastry chef named Sylvan Bailey,

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Speaker 2: and then found his way to having his own shop.

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Speaker 2: And that was largely because he created these insane edible

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Speaker 2: replicas of late eighteenth century buildings, some of the most

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Speaker 2: famous buildings, things like the ancient ruins of Athens or

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Speaker 2: Chinese fortresses and things like that, and they were quite

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Speaker 2: tall and were displayed in the window of his bakery

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Speaker 2: and he turned some heads, folks like Napoleon Bonaparte and

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Speaker 2: French diplomats like Charles Maurice did telerand Paragord decided to

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Speaker 2: employ him, and Paragord actually got him to make a

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Speaker 2: full menu for his own personal estate. And it was

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Speaker 2: later when his creations made it to Europe when the

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Speaker 2: Prince Regent, George the fourth asked him to come over

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Speaker 2: and prepare a menu for a party that he was having.

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Speaker 2: You see, was a huge fan of aspic, and I've

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Speaker 2: kind of been asking myself, like, what's different in aspec

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Speaker 2: and gelatin in general. It turns out aspec specifically involves

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Speaker 2: using like a meat broth, like it's called a consumme,

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Speaker 2: and it typically is savory, so it can include things

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Speaker 2: like vegetables or sliced beef or chicken or anything you

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Speaker 2: could think of. And Krame coined this term chou freu,

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Speaker 2: which was French for hot cold, and the idea was

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Speaker 2: that parts of it would be cooked and then it

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Speaker 2: would be served cold. But the whole idea was it

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Speaker 2: was a big it was a show. It was a

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Speaker 2: culinary display of that opulence that you talked about. This

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Speaker 2: is not something that anyone could have. You had to

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Speaker 2: have a whole staff to be able to prepare this thing.

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Speaker 2: I mean it was a pretty serious, almost scientific process

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Speaker 2: of straining and setting, and in a time before industrialization

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Speaker 2: and refrigeration, it was a really big deal to be

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Speaker 2: able to make this stuff. And it caught on in

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Speaker 2: New York high society as well, and even Thomas Jeffer

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Speaker 2: Senators Monticello Estate, was a huge fan of having wine

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Speaker 2: gelatin served with meals.

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Speaker 1: And that's a very interesting point there about the luxurious

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Speaker 1: nature and the luxurious origin of this food stuff, of

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Speaker 1: this application of food, because later we're going to see

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Speaker 1: this change to a matter of convenience as well as status.

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Speaker 1: We left off the story with Thomas Jefferson, Let's fast

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Speaker 1: forward to eighteen forty five when we meet a fellow

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Speaker 1: named Peter Cooper. Along with being the inventor of the

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Speaker 1: first American built steam locomotive, Pete I'm gonna call him.

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Speaker 1: Pete created a way to make gelatine more accessible to

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Speaker 1: the masses by making it a powder. This is where

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Speaker 1: we see another patent come into play. He called this

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Speaker 1: stuff portable gelatine because all you had to do was

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Speaker 1: to add hot water and Unfortunately, although it's sure caught

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Speaker 1: on later, Pete did not have much success marketing it,

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Speaker 1: and he didn't really pursue his invention. Occasionally he sold

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Speaker 1: it to cooks, but he didn't commercialize it beyond that.

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Speaker 1: He was actually more into powdered glue. Believe it or not.

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Speaker 2: Why don't you think it caught on? It seemed like

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Speaker 2: it was such a to do to make this stuff

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Speaker 2: and for someone to be able to be like, hey,

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Speaker 2: I got the quick fix right here for your gel cooking.

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Speaker 1: Right. That's a good point and it's a great question.

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Speaker 1: So let's go to Rochester, New York, a little town

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Speaker 1: outside of there, in fact, called Leroy. This is where

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Speaker 1: we meet a couple by the name of Pearl and

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Speaker 1: may wait two at the time that we find them

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Speaker 1: are running a not entirely successful cough syrup and laxative business.

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Speaker 2: It's a good combo. They should make a combination cough

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Speaker 2: syrup laxative from when you can't poop and you have

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Speaker 2: a bit of a group that they can have that

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Speaker 2: that can the tagline.

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Speaker 1: It could be like that combination Pizza Hut and taco

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Speaker 1: bell song. I think we just figured out their marketing

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Speaker 1: for them.

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Speaker 2: So what's the scoop, Ben, What did old pearl in

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Speaker 2: May come up with?

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Speaker 1: I'm so glad you asked, Noel, because fortunately for this episode,

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Speaker 1: it wasn't all mediocre laxatiff business, especially because we're a

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Speaker 1: family show. According to the Chemical Heritage Foundation, the Weight

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Speaker 1: couple was looking around for something they could do differently right,

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Speaker 1: a way to evolve their business into a more successful entity,

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Speaker 1: and they obtained that earlier patent for powdered gelatin. They

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Speaker 1: also encountered one of the big cons of gelatin at

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Speaker 1: the time, which is that it was tasteless. It was

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Speaker 1: just sort of like this translucent.

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Speaker 2: Goop or you see a con. I see a blank

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Speaker 2: slate rife for innovation, and luckily.

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Speaker 1: They did too, because they realized that they could add

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Speaker 1: syrups to this, and the gelatine, while it may not

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Speaker 1: have a flavor of its own, is an excellent platform

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Speaker 1: for other flavors. They blank slated it just as you said.

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Speaker 1: They added sugar fruit syrups like raspberry, strawberry, lemon, orange.

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Speaker 1: No word if it's orange flour, but orange that's close enough.

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Speaker 2: Orange flour is so vague. What kind of flower are

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Speaker 2: we talking?

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Speaker 1: About I guess literally any flour that is orange rosewater.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting too, Ben, because before the Weights came

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Speaker 2: into the picture, your buddy Peter Cooper, he didn't just

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Speaker 2: patent the gelatin. He patented a gelatin dessert mix of

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Speaker 2: his own creation, which was a powdered mix with lemons, sugar, eggs,

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Speaker 2: and various spices. But he just didn't have that marketing

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Speaker 2: prow ass that was required to really sell this to

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Speaker 2: the world. And there was a zeitgeist, the element to

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Speaker 2: this stuff too, that we'll get into in just a second.

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Speaker 1: For now, you're probably wondering, folks, where did this name

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Speaker 1: jello come from? We'll tell you. So the Weight couple

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Speaker 1: had this gelatin idea right, and that they flavored it,

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Speaker 1: made it about eighty eight percent sugar, but they were overjoyed.

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Speaker 1: Nobody was worried about the sugar content at that time.

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Speaker 1: They were overjoyed because it tasted good. And may wait

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Speaker 1: named this new favorite dessert jello. It's important combining the

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Speaker 1: words gelatine and jelly, both of which derive from the

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Speaker 1: Latin meaning to congeal or to freeze.

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Speaker 2: And oh man, it's good.

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Speaker 1: There we go.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's mine.

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Speaker 1: I thought that was good. As for the O part,

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Speaker 1: historians attribute it to just a naming trend. It was

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Speaker 1: apparently very popular to add oh at the end of

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Speaker 1: your product name.

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Speaker 2: Whammo, there we go, bingo.

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Speaker 1: I feel like you're on a roll tally ho which

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Speaker 1: I give us that that last one is?

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Speaker 2: I was old. Yeah, do you think of anything? No,

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Speaker 2: you're right there, like Wizzo, like not only product names,

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Speaker 2: but even like company names, right.

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Speaker 1: Sure, yeah, Blinko, Rinko, et cetera probably had a futuristic vibe. Apparently,

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Speaker 1: according to the Dictionary of Trade Origins, which is a

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Speaker 1: real book, the practice began because adding oh seemed visually appealing.

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Speaker 1: In addition, you could take a common word and easily

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Speaker 1: modify it to make a trademark. An example would be graino,

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Speaker 1: real thing.

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Speaker 2: Oh, draino. That's a legacy one too. And it's cool too,

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Speaker 2: because one thing that's neat about the jello thing I

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Speaker 2: mean needs not the right word. But it's sort of

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Speaker 2: like our buddy Edward Burnees who sort of figured out

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Speaker 2: how to show the pork industry how they could sell

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Speaker 2: this disgusting byproduct we now know as bacon and make

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Speaker 2: it like the number one breakfast food in America. Gelatine

395
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:45,320
Speaker 2: was just a way of like using these discarded scraps

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Speaker 2: and bits from the meat packing industry and turning it

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Speaker 2: into something you could then sell back to the public.

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Speaker 2: But the most important aspect of it that had been

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Speaker 2: missing up to this point was that marketing win that

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Speaker 2: Edward Burnees who is the godfather of advertising. That's sort

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00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:04,760
Speaker 2: of spin, yeah, exactly. So Pearl and May were great

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Speaker 2: at making Jello, but they weren't super fantastic at selling it,

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Speaker 2: and they didn't have the capital to push it out

404
00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:16,119
Speaker 2: successfully in the market. And that's why on September eighth,

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Speaker 2: in eighteen ninety nine, the couple sold the formula, patent

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Speaker 2: and the name entire Jello, the entire brand of Jello

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Speaker 2: to their neighbor, a man named Frank Woodward, who at

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Speaker 2: the time was the owner of the Genesee Food Company,

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Speaker 2: and they sold it for about what was it, four

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Speaker 2: hundred and fifty dollars. Yeah, and with our handy dandy

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Speaker 2: inflation calculator, that equates to roughly eleven grand by today's standards.

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Speaker 1: So Woodward knew his business. He was already successful at

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Speaker 1: selling packaged food and he took the techniques he learned

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Speaker 1: and applied them to jello. He had his salesforce dressed

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Speaker 1: in fancy suits and go around to houses offering free samples,

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Speaker 1: right just like the bad kids do in every drug

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Speaker 1: war PSA the first one's free. And they would do

418
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:09,720
Speaker 1: so many things to convince grocery store owners to stock

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Speaker 1: shelves with boxes of this powdered gelatine jello. And they

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Speaker 1: still had the original four flavors strawberry, raspberry, lemon, and orange.

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Speaker 1: But it didn't succeed. Still, like three people have tried

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Speaker 1: this now with you know, middling success.

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Speaker 2: And a great article on Sirius Eats by Sarah Gray

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Speaker 2: that kind of chronicles the history of the jello salad

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Speaker 2: mentions a little book by the name of the Jungle

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Speaker 2: by Upton Sinclair. It came out in nineteen oh six

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Speaker 2: that essentially single handedly helped establish the Food and Drug Act,

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Speaker 2: which created the FDA, the Food and Drug Administration that

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Speaker 2: we know today. And it became a big deal for

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Speaker 2: food to have labels and for things to be seen

431
00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:59,440
Speaker 2: as safe and pure. And Jello really jumped all over

432
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:03,160
Speaker 2: that and started using terms like the safety bag and

433
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:06,840
Speaker 2: the repeated the word pure, according to this article, no

434
00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:09,040
Speaker 2: less than three times, even adding it to like the

435
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:10,320
Speaker 2: company's slogan.

436
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:15,680
Speaker 1: Right, So let's take a closer look at Woodward here.

437
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:18,359
Speaker 1: So he's doing his best. He's got the expertise. It

438
00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:22,600
Speaker 1: was around nineteen oh four when he and a new

439
00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:28,520
Speaker 1: employee named William Hummelbaugh had a brilliant idea. They put

440
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:32,840
Speaker 1: ads for Jello in The Lady's Home Journal, a nationally

441
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:40,600
Speaker 1: syndicated magazine, and they featured smiling, fashionable homemakers in spotless

442
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:46,280
Speaker 1: white aprons, proclaiming that jello was quote America's favorite dessert,

443
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 1: and along with the worries of safety that were also

444
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:54,720
Speaker 1: in the zeitgeist at the time, jello was propelled to

445
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:59,480
Speaker 1: the mainstream. Annual sales jumped to two hundred and fifty

446
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 1: thousand dollars that would be around six a little over

447
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:07,399
Speaker 1: six million today, and kids were begging for the dessert

448
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:10,360
Speaker 1: because I'm sure, as you know, folks, if you can

449
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:15,040
Speaker 1: convince kids to want something, the parents will usually follow

450
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:20,280
Speaker 1: the lead. And as Noel said, the cookbooks began to

451
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:26,639
Speaker 1: take off. World War One did affect rationing, and after

452
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 1: World War Two, Gelatin's success persisted, it became seen as

453
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:37,960
Speaker 1: a creative cooking tool, and at this point, finally, after

454
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:44,199
Speaker 1: numerous people had tried to market gelatine, it began to

455
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:47,880
Speaker 1: take off. And it took off in the craziest way.

456
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:49,880
Speaker 1: We found some weird examples.

457
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:51,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's true. A guy named Charles Knox who had

458
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:53,800
Speaker 2: his own I don't know. I look at it as

459
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 2: sort of the utilitarian cousin of Jello. It was just

460
00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:00,359
Speaker 2: the Knox Gelatin company, and just to pack it looks

461
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:02,520
Speaker 2: very much the same today as it did then, very

462
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:06,040
Speaker 2: little bells and whistles, no flavors. He took it to

463
00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:08,960
Speaker 2: the World's Fair in nineteen oh four and had a

464
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:14,200
Speaker 2: competition where anyone could submit their own recipes using gelatin,

465
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:17,639
Speaker 2: and a woman who here in this Serious Eats articles

466
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:22,000
Speaker 2: only referred to as missus John Cook from Newcastle, Pennsylvania

467
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:25,720
Speaker 2: one third prize in the competition with a thing that

468
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:30,640
Speaker 2: she created called perfection salad. Not gentleman salad. Perfection salad.

469
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:33,480
Speaker 2: And I actually found a recipe for this thing. I'm

470
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:38,040
Speaker 2: gonna describe it to you. It is a mountain of

471
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 2: molded orange, kind of foggy gelatin, filled with an assortment

472
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:48,160
Speaker 2: of shredded ruffage, and the recipe goes like this, two

473
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:52,800
Speaker 2: envelopes unflavored gelatine, a half cup sugar, one teaspoon salt,

474
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:56,000
Speaker 2: one can apple juice, a half cup lemon juice, two

475
00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:59,920
Speaker 2: tablespoons vinegar, one cup shredded carrot, one cup sliced celery,

476
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:03,640
Speaker 2: one cup finally shredded cabbage, a half cup chopped green pepper,

477
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:09,000
Speaker 2: and one can chopped pimento. And it is if absolutely

478
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 2: foul looking, but it caught on. People loved it. They

479
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:15,040
Speaker 2: wanted to be part of the jello wave of the future,

480
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:18,440
Speaker 2: and this really kind of created this demand. And another

481
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:23,720
Speaker 2: era we're using jello showed opulence because we were entering

482
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 2: the time of refrigeration.

483
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:36,240
Speaker 1: As the United States enters this industrial boom, the world

484
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:39,680
Speaker 1: of two point five kids, a car in every garage,

485
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:44,760
Speaker 1: and endless suburbs, people wanted to keep up with the Joneses,

486
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:47,320
Speaker 1: and one of the best ways to do it was

487
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:52,719
Speaker 1: to have the latest appliance. Right is similar to microwave cooking.

488
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:55,520
Speaker 1: A little bit later in history, people wanted to have

489
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:59,920
Speaker 1: refrigerators and if you were bringing a jello salad to

490
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:03,480
Speaker 1: the pot luck or to the party, that I don't know,

491
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:06,920
Speaker 1: the kid's birthday party, the barbecue. It showed that you

492
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:10,800
Speaker 1: and your family had one of those new fangled refrigerators.

493
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:16,400
Speaker 1: And we cannot, we cannot overestimate Missus Cook's effect on

494
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:17,560
Speaker 1: the demand for jello.

495
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:17,960
Speaker 2: Food.

496
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:23,200
Speaker 1: Historian James Beard observed in his in his book American

497
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 1: Cookery that Missus Cook's victory at the World's Fair unleashed

498
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:32,280
Speaker 1: a demand for congealed salads that, according to Beard, this

499
00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:34,800
Speaker 1: is in nineteen seventy two. He says, this a demand

500
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:38,920
Speaker 1: for congealed salads that has grown alarmingly, particularly in the suburbs.

501
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:42,600
Speaker 2: Alarmingly the invasion of the jella mold. Yeah, he went

502
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 2: on to as well, he did, he couched it. He

503
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:47,480
Speaker 2: went on to say, quote, the jellied salad does have

504
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:51,960
Speaker 2: its delights, though, and it is without question an American innovation,

505
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:54,440
Speaker 2: no doubt about it, mister Beard here here.

506
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:59,040
Speaker 1: So now we've set the stage. We've got knocks, we've

507
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:03,080
Speaker 1: got jello. We've got people nowadays arguing that you can

508
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:07,040
Speaker 1: follow American social history by looking at the history of jello.

509
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 2: As I know, we haven't really talked about this much,

510
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:12,200
Speaker 2: but there was a whole kind of iconography associated with

511
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:15,440
Speaker 2: jello packaging. Some of the early ones used illustrations by

512
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:18,680
Speaker 2: Norman Rockwell, right. And then there was what was it

513
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:20,680
Speaker 2: ben the jello girl, sort of like a.

514
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:27,640
Speaker 1: Spokes thing, introduced in nineteen oh eight and instrumental, crucial

515
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 1: in making American consumers connect the idea of jello with

516
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 1: again the purity, the innocence of childhood. And although sales

517
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:43,160
Speaker 1: of sugar and you know, therefore jello were rationed during

518
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:46,400
Speaker 1: World War One, between the twenties and thirties, the popularity

519
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:51,720
Speaker 1: of gelatin salads soars and there were pragmatic reasons behind this.

520
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:58,440
Speaker 1: The depression forced homemakers to stretch ingredients as far as possible.

521
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:01,560
Speaker 2: That also included things like sugar that you would have separately,

522
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:04,280
Speaker 2: and many recues require you to add sugar. You didn't

523
00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:06,520
Speaker 2: have to do that when you're using jello because the

524
00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:08,040
Speaker 2: sugar was already part of the mix.

525
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:12,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's a really good point. And so now

526
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:15,400
Speaker 1: we see not just the idea of refrigeration that comes

527
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:19,120
Speaker 1: into play later, but we also see the idea of status,

528
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:22,240
Speaker 1: of proving to your friends and neighbors that you can

529
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:26,800
Speaker 1: still do some top notch entertaining despite the rations despite

530
00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:30,080
Speaker 1: the shortages. I've got a recipe for all of relish

531
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:32,240
Speaker 1: which I've been to save you the save you the

532
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:35,800
Speaker 1: trouble here, folks, it seems kind of gross. Olives, pickles, celery,

533
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:40,680
Speaker 1: and vinegar all in a lovely a lovely amalgamation with

534
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:47,000
Speaker 1: lime jello, right right, But now we see kind of

535
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:51,240
Speaker 1: a Bernesian if I could use that word, a Bernasian

536
00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:55,160
Speaker 1: approach to marketing here, or an aspect of it, because

537
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:58,600
Speaker 1: we have to ask ourselves, did people genuinely like this

538
00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:03,520
Speaker 1: stuff or did they instead like being people who could

539
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:04,120
Speaker 1: make it?

540
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:05,960
Speaker 2: Well. It's like I said, with my mom and the

541
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:09,720
Speaker 2: gentleman salad, her mom would have come from that original

542
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:12,240
Speaker 2: time where this was something that was seen as a

543
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:15,440
Speaker 2: status symbol, and she was all about these status symbols.

544
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:16,960
Speaker 2: That's where my mom got the whole idea of having

545
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:20,720
Speaker 2: a lovely table place setting. It was all very, very

546
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:24,120
Speaker 2: important during times where things were much more scarce to

547
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:27,160
Speaker 2: show that you were kind of above the fray. I

548
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:29,520
Speaker 2: guess I mean it seems a little, I don't know,

549
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:32,640
Speaker 2: a little shallow to me personally, but I can see

550
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:34,600
Speaker 2: how it would have felt important to kind of keep

551
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:37,160
Speaker 2: your spirits up and to make your family feel like

552
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:39,120
Speaker 2: you had you know, you were one of the halves,

553
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:44,600
Speaker 2: I guess. But of course, like things do, these kind

554
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:50,280
Speaker 2: of Jello salad aspect meat monstrosities fell out of favor,

555
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:54,160
Speaker 2: and Jello kind of took it was its original place

556
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:57,600
Speaker 2: as an easy to make dessert. You had Bill Cosby

557
00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:01,160
Speaker 2: swooping in, you know, back when he wasn't persona non

558
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:07,080
Speaker 2: grata advertising Jello jigglers. Remember Jello jigglers. Sure for kids

559
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:09,319
Speaker 2: they used like a little cookie cutter and they were

560
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:12,400
Speaker 2: a little They used a little bit stiffer gelatine, I think,

561
00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:14,319
Speaker 2: so you could pick them up and play with them.

562
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:17,279
Speaker 1: They wanted a gritty reboot. You're absolutely right. By the

563
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:21,720
Speaker 1: nineteen seventies and nineteen eighties, the golden age of Jello

564
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:23,920
Speaker 1: had sort of passed, and that's why in nineteen eighty

565
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 1: six they decided to rebrand. They got Bill Cosby, phenomenally

566
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:32,800
Speaker 1: successful comic at the time, and it was sort of

567
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:37,120
Speaker 1: the world made new because Americans were no longer as

568
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:41,719
Speaker 1: readily familiar with the concept of aspects. And if you

569
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:45,560
Speaker 1: had brought a perfection salad or a couple of other

570
00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:50,120
Speaker 1: really choice gelatin dishes, that will probably read off at

571
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:52,080
Speaker 1: the end. If you brought those to a pot luck

572
00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:54,319
Speaker 1: in the seventies or eighties, people would be like, what

573
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:58,480
Speaker 1: are you doing? I thought we were friends. Why can't

574
00:34:58,480 --> 00:34:59,719
Speaker 1: you just tell me you don't like me?

575
00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:02,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's sort of like bringing someone a fruitcake for Christmas.

576
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:06,719
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we did do an episode in the Oldest Fruitcake.

577
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:08,040
Speaker 1: Remember that, I do.

578
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:10,719
Speaker 2: And it goes back to that that question you asked earlier, Ben,

579
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:13,680
Speaker 2: did people really like the way this stuff tasted? Or

580
00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:15,920
Speaker 2: was it just like the placebo effect of kind of

581
00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:19,479
Speaker 2: associating it with status and therefore you could choke it down.

582
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:22,320
Speaker 2: I like all kinds of stuff, Ben, I'm a relatively

583
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:25,520
Speaker 2: adventurous eater, but literally every single one of these things

584
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:29,120
Speaker 2: seems absolutely inedible and disgusting to me. And I don't

585
00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:32,920
Speaker 2: think I could ever convince myself otherwise, you know.

586
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:37,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, but we also have to remember that that numerous

587
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:40,600
Speaker 1: folks in the audience wrote back about vinegar pie, and

588
00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:43,759
Speaker 1: you were all absolutely correct. I'm kind of converted. Oh

589
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:46,080
Speaker 1: it sounds great, but I'm not gonna tell you what

590
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:47,880
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna try. Let's let's read off some of

591
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:50,120
Speaker 1: these gross recipes you want to for sure. All right,

592
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:54,560
Speaker 1: So emeralds candle lope is not that bad. You put lime,

593
00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:56,320
Speaker 1: jello and canned pineapp on the candle.

594
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:56,880
Speaker 2: It's fun.

595
00:35:57,120 --> 00:35:57,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's fun.

596
00:35:57,880 --> 00:35:59,960
Speaker 2: It fills the it, it fills the gap.

597
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:00,400
Speaker 1: Mm hm.

598
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:02,279
Speaker 2: There's another one with a melon. You can do that

599
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:03,719
Speaker 2: kind of You cut a half a melon and a

600
00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:05,799
Speaker 2: half and you put jello in the in the hole

601
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:07,360
Speaker 2: and that you know, you can scoop it out, so

602
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:09,560
Speaker 2: it's sort of like double texture for your money.

603
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:13,600
Speaker 1: Tell you what though, salmon and cottage cheese with boiled

604
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:17,839
Speaker 1: eggs as a garnish. Nah, no, sir, no, I I've

605
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:21,560
Speaker 1: just thought it's a jellied lamb salad. No, it's a pass.

606
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 1: I know we talked about lime jelly salads, but do

607
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:27,640
Speaker 1: we talk about lime cheese salad.

608
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:28,080
Speaker 2: Nope?

609
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:31,640
Speaker 1: Do you want to skip that with it? Yeah? How

610
00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:32,040
Speaker 1: do you?

611
00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:33,879
Speaker 2: Oh? You know, I do have that that I think

612
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:36,799
Speaker 2: is a modern example of this actually working and for

613
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:39,359
Speaker 2: me personally, there is a place here in Atlanta called

614
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:42,160
Speaker 2: the Spotted Trotter that makes their own pataise, and a

615
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:45,720
Speaker 2: lot of patais will have a little layer of aspect

616
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:48,280
Speaker 2: on the top, so it's just like a small layer

617
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:51,160
Speaker 2: of like a ginger aspect, so that it's made with

618
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:54,040
Speaker 2: like a consume or a beef broth, but it's flavored

619
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:57,319
Speaker 2: with ginger. And when it's almost like a jelly or

620
00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:00,279
Speaker 2: a chutney of some kind. So it's really good for

621
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:02,239
Speaker 2: like you know, mixing with a pet or putting on

622
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:04,279
Speaker 2: a piece of toast or something like that. It sort

623
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:06,719
Speaker 2: of mixes the savory with the sweet. But to me,

624
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:09,719
Speaker 2: it's when you really go full board down that you know,

625
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:13,680
Speaker 2: savory jello thing that's just just I like it, maybe

626
00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:16,960
Speaker 2: as like a garnish or as an additive, but you know,

627
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:20,360
Speaker 2: all on its own. Oh boy, and the photography and

628
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:23,279
Speaker 2: some of these cookbooks, it's just like who gave the

629
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:24,480
Speaker 2: green light to that picture?

630
00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:27,719
Speaker 1: You know. We invite you to check these out firsthand

631
00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:32,759
Speaker 1: and send us some of your favorites. And favorite here

632
00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:34,719
Speaker 1: is a tricky word. It can be the one that

633
00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:37,640
Speaker 1: you were most fascinated by or the one you have

634
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:43,360
Speaker 1: actually tried. We of course, are not knocking anybody's personal taste.

635
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:46,360
Speaker 2: You can send us that stuff to ridiculous at HowStuffWorks

636
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 2: dot com or hit us up on the social media

637
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:51,520
Speaker 2: the Facebook, the Instagram, where we are also Ridiculous History.

638
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:55,840
Speaker 1: As always, we'd like to thank our super producer Casey

639
00:37:55,920 --> 00:38:01,200
Speaker 1: Pegram as well as author Maria Trimarchi, who wrote Ridiculous History.

640
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:04,800
Speaker 1: What's for Dinner Meet Jello available on howstufforks dot com.

641
00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:07,960
Speaker 2: Also thanks to our pal Alex Williams for composing our theme,

642
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:11,000
Speaker 2: and most importantly, thanks to you guys for tuning in

643
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:13,520
Speaker 2: and hanging out with us for another episode of Ridiculous History.

644
00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:23,640
Speaker 2: We'll see you next time. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,

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00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:26,960
Speaker 2: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen

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Speaker 2: to your favorite shows