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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds, and Carry Lake beat Ronda Santis in

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Speaker 1: a sepack straw Paul to beat Trump's running mate in

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Speaker 1: whatever that means. We have a fascinating show for you today.

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Speaker 1: Congressman Jim Hines explains to us why Washington, DC should

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Speaker 1: make laws for itself. Then we have USA AIDS Samantha

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Speaker 1: Power talking to us about the war in Ukraine as

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Speaker 1: it enters year two, and a post earthquake Turkey. But

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Speaker 1: first we have the Guardians Political Investigations reporter Hugo Law.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to Fast Politics, Hugo Law, Hi, thanks for

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Speaker 1: having me so sepack discuss he was the Trump Show

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Speaker 1: for real. I think the first few days when Trump

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Speaker 1: wasn't there, it was really low key and the biggest

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Speaker 1: draw was Steve Bannon and the last day was Trump.

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Speaker 1: And when Trump was there, it was just Trump. I

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Speaker 1: wasn't at the seatback, which you know, because what I

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Speaker 1: noticed was that it seemed more sparsely attended than usual.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that's right? Yeah? Look, I think the

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Speaker 1: first few days when Trump wasn't there, It was very

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Speaker 1: sparsely attended, even for some of the keynote speeches. For

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Speaker 1: people who you think might draw big crowds in MAGA world,

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Speaker 1: people like Matt Gates, people like Lie Stefanik, Nikki Haiti

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Speaker 1: might compare. The auditorium was maybe at best forty percent ful.

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Speaker 1: And I was watching Steve Bannon do his show live

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Speaker 1: just outside the conference center. There were people in the

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Speaker 1: crowd talking to themselves being like, oh, you know Matt

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Speaker 1: Gates on now, do you want to go see Matt Gates?

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Speaker 1: And they'll be like, now, what would want to go

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Speaker 1: see Matt Gates? The real show is here? And so

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Speaker 1: I think that kind of encapsulates how, you know, even

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Speaker 1: the MAGA members of Congress to the Ultramaga you know,

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Speaker 1: Trump supporters, to them, it's not really as interesting as

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Speaker 1: someone like Steve Bannon, who they see as the real

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Speaker 1: kind of maga og celebrity. You're blowing my brain here

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Speaker 1: for a minute. You're saying that ce Bannon is more

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Speaker 1: central to MAGA world now than Macates. Yeah. I mean

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Speaker 1: the two chants that you heard the most during sepack

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Speaker 1: was Trump, Trump, Trump, or let's take down the CCP

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Speaker 1: and let's take down the CCP is the kind of

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Speaker 1: jingle slash music that Bannon plays in the intro and

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Speaker 1: outro to his show. I think he really is. You know,

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Speaker 1: he has taken the MAGA brand further right than even

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Speaker 1: in twenty sixteen and through the administration. And I think

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Speaker 1: the member of Congress, you know, they were talking about

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Speaker 1: like policy and how like Biden was bad, and you know,

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Speaker 1: the sepackack crowd, I think, you know, gives appreciation for that,

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Speaker 1: and you would hear like the smattering of applause. But

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Speaker 1: what they really were therefore was Trump and anything beyond that.

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Speaker 1: If it wasn't Bannon a bit of a sideshow, what

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Speaker 1: about Don Junior? I mean what I've read was that

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Speaker 1: Don Junior and Kimberly go Foil and Marjorie Taylor Green

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Speaker 1: who is a huge small dollar raiser, that all three

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Speaker 1: of them could barely put together crowds. Yeah, their speeches,

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Speaker 1: you know, they're roughly around twenty minutes thirty minutes long,

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Speaker 1: and they could not fill the auditorium. The only person

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Speaker 1: outside Trump who was able to fill the auditorium really

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Speaker 1: was banned. And he probably got to want to say

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Speaker 1: about sixty and I think it's just the reflection of

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Speaker 1: it's Trump or nothing. I don't know how else to

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Speaker 1: describe it. It's like it's become more trumpy than any

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Speaker 1: other seapack before. And I don't know if this is

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Speaker 1: a reaction to kind of his ultra loyal supporters being like,

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Speaker 1: you know, we have to show that we're still behind

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Speaker 1: Trump and you know, all this discussion about DeSantis is

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Speaker 1: garbage and we need to we need to, you know,

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Speaker 1: show our enthusiasm more. Or if it is just that

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Speaker 1: this particular crowd that came to this particular seepack was

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Speaker 1: particularly trumping. But either way, you know, none of the

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Speaker 1: other members of Congress, as as Trump allied as they were,

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Speaker 1: were able to generate the sort of enthusiasm and crowds

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Speaker 1: that you might otherwise expect. It was really notable. It's

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Speaker 1: so interesting to me because, I mean, how much of

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Speaker 1: this do you think is because of the allegation surrounding

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Speaker 1: match Lab, the herschel Walker staffer who is suing match

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Speaker 1: Lab for eight point seven million dollars And how much

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Speaker 1: of this do you think is just because Mago world

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Speaker 1: is split or Trump World is split. I think it's

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Speaker 1: a bit of both. I think initially, you know, in

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Speaker 1: the first few days when it really was empty, because

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Speaker 1: it really was empty like it was, it was surprising

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Speaker 1: the extent to which people were not there. And I

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Speaker 1: think originally people are like, oh, you know, this is

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Speaker 1: really because match Lab and you know, people don't want

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Speaker 1: to be associated seapack, especially the vendors and you know,

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Speaker 1: even the far right kind of media outlets, you don't

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Speaker 1: want to be associated with Seapack Box was not there

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Speaker 1: this year. The headline media sponsor was Newsmax kind of

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Speaker 1: sad and RAV and RSPN What's Rav, Real America's Voice

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Speaker 1: which host Bannon Show, and then RSPN Right Side Broadcasting News, Yes,

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Speaker 1: which I've watched before commiserations Yeah exactly, makes Fox look

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Speaker 1: like yeah, look like the BBC. No, that's basically right.

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Speaker 1: And I think by the time that Trump got to

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Speaker 1: the stage, though, I think it had filled out. And

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Speaker 1: I wonder if you know, people clearly came for Trump

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Speaker 1: on that final day on Saturday as well, so maybe

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Speaker 1: they put their reservations about match Lap aside and they

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Speaker 1: were like, we want to see Trump speak, or it

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Speaker 1: was not exactly clear. Is the is the answer for now?

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Speaker 1: Even among the attendees, there was an acknowledgment that yes,

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Speaker 1: you know, the allegations around match Lap are kind of

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Speaker 1: not great, and you know, we don't want to be

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Speaker 1: associated with that. So I listened to that speech and

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Speaker 1: I thought it seemed pretty bad. But it seems like people,

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Speaker 1: some people who are like more even Trump versed than me,

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Speaker 1: were even more horrified like that. Some of the lines

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Speaker 1: he said were like the furthest he's ever gone. Do

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Speaker 1: you think that's true? And do you agree with that, Adam?

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Speaker 1: What do you think? So? I have three takeaways from

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Speaker 1: the speech. The first was it was really energetic at

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Speaker 1: the start. You know, when he was talking about the

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Speaker 1: Department of Justice and how DJ is coming after him

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Speaker 1: and how Jack Smith is an animal. You know, that

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Speaker 1: really fired him up. You could see that person and

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Speaker 1: he kind of animated him in a way that the

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Speaker 1: policy stuff he was talking about really didn't as much

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Speaker 1: as he liked. Right. But you know, but like you know,

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Speaker 1: this is kind of emblematic of kind of what gets

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Speaker 1: him going and what really puts kind of fire and

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Speaker 1: in his campaign. And it makes sense because remember in

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty, they decided not to have a platform, right

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Speaker 1: and you know, when he's talking about the policy and like, oh,

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Speaker 1: you know, I want to have you know, a baby boom,

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Speaker 1: and you know I want to you know, I want

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Speaker 1: to send MS that team back to All of the

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Speaker 1: policy points to me were things he'd said before, you know,

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Speaker 1: things like ending the Department of Education. You know, he

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Speaker 1: has said all of this before. Baby boom. I have

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Speaker 1: never heard him talk about a baby boom. That's straight

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Speaker 1: out of Turkey. I mean, that's real authoritarian stuff right there,

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Speaker 1: right that's ethno nationalism. I mean that I do think

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Speaker 1: is now no fair enough. But I think if you

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Speaker 1: if you take those speech as a whole, a lot

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Speaker 1: of the content, you know, he had said elsewhere, whether

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Speaker 1: it wasn't the gaggle that he did previously or kind

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Speaker 1: of previous appearances or previous speeches, the content as a

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Speaker 1: whole was not new. The thing that really animated him

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Speaker 1: was the DOJ stuff. And when he was complaining about

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Speaker 1: personal grievances, not only did that animate him, but because

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Speaker 1: he was so energized by that, it also energize the crowd.

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Speaker 1: And I think if you speak, you know, I spoke

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Speaker 1: to his advisors yesterday night and this morning. They were like,

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Speaker 1: you know that clearly resonated, and that's the kind of

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Speaker 1: thing we're actually going to message going forward because it

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Speaker 1: does boost both his supporters as well as him himself.

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Speaker 1: So you didn't see authoritarian leaning there, or you just

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Speaker 1: saw the standard trumpy authoritarianism. I thought it was the

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Speaker 1: standard Trump authoritarism. I mean, not to discount the fact

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Speaker 1: that I think they were you know, authoritarian on the

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Speaker 1: turns throughout the speech, right, But this is not particularly

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Speaker 1: new for Trump, and I kind of expect this from

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Speaker 1: Trump now. You know, if he didn't have authoritarian on

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Speaker 1: the tones, I'd be like whoa, you know, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: would going on right, and this is this is a

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Speaker 1: dangerous territory. Something's wrong. So you think there's sort of

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Speaker 1: I am your retribution. There'll be more of that going forward. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And I mean, look, you you speak to the campaign

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Speaker 1: that like this is what worked in twenty sixteen. We

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Speaker 1: talk so much about how you know, he is not

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Speaker 1: the same person as he was in twenty sixteen. The

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Speaker 1: country is not in the same place as the twenty

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Speaker 1: sixteen having been a president who now comes with that baggage,

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Speaker 1: so he can't be the underdog that he was. You know,

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Speaker 1: two cycles ago, but he wants to play that playbook

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Speaker 1: and he's going to do it regardless of whatever anyone

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Speaker 1: tells him. And that was on display. I think, you know,

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Speaker 1: it was a very bleak speech. It was how Biden's

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Speaker 1: America was supposedly destroying the country. How you know you

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Speaker 1: couldn't you didn't have any money to buy groceries or like,

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Speaker 1: you know, everyone's incomes have been set back. And you

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Speaker 1: know MS. He was back about MS thirteen. I mean,

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Speaker 1: we hadn't had that for a while. Like, he's back

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Speaker 1: about MS thirteen and it was really dark and then

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Speaker 1: he kind of portrays himself. But I'm your savior. He

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Speaker 1: does always have really dark speech. I mean remember his

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Speaker 1: his inauguration speech, right, but it was right out of that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: w was like this was that was some weird shit.

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Speaker 1: It was straight out of the inauguration speech. You know,

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Speaker 1: Ross Worthington had a role in writing the speech, but

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Speaker 1: so did you know Stephen Miller, and so did Jason

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Speaker 1: who you know, these two guys who are back on

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Speaker 1: the campaign pretty much. So I think more of that

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Speaker 1: to come, and more attacks on the Department of Justice

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Speaker 1: because he has chilly found that that is a message

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Speaker 1: that lands with the base, and he's been struggling to

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Speaker 1: find that a little bit, and I think he actually

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Speaker 1: found that over seatback. Let's just game this out for

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Speaker 1: a minute. Trump continues doing this. I mean, he won

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Speaker 1: the straw poll Fox News and the donors all want

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Speaker 1: to Santis right, so they have their guy. So you

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Speaker 1: think that it doesn't matter and Trump will just keep running. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And I think if you, I mean, from the campaign's perspective,

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Speaker 1: they look at feedback and they think of it as

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Speaker 1: a reset, right. They see this, as you know, seed

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Speaker 1: pack is a good representation of the right wing aliment,

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Speaker 1: of the Republican base right, and they're like, well, what

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Speaker 1: do the base want? The base want to Trump? Nicki

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Speaker 1: Haley gave a speech and while Nikki Hardy was taking

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Speaker 1: photos with her supporters, all the other attendees, you know,

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Speaker 1: came around and circled home or shot Trump Trump Trump,

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Speaker 1: and Nikki Hady couldn't get a path right, Like this

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Speaker 1: was a repudiation of the anti Trump sentiment. And the

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Speaker 1: campaign looked at that and thought, you know, this is

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Speaker 1: exactly the kind of thing we need more of. And

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Speaker 1: seepack reaffirms our belief that the base actually wants Trump.

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Speaker 1: And even if you know the Washington kind of lobbyists

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Speaker 1: and the establishment as they like to see it, think

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Speaker 1: they want the santis the campaigns like what doesn't matter,

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Speaker 1: because what does the base want? The base wants Trump? Right?

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Speaker 1: What other things were stand out for you that you saw?

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Speaker 1: And then I'll tell you what I found horrifying. I

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Speaker 1: keep connect to Bannon because you know, Bannon has not

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Speaker 1: been really a topic of discussion at all since January

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Speaker 1: sixth week his comments about how it's gonna be a

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Speaker 1: wild day, right, it was very interesting to see how

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Speaker 1: the base was kind of in tune with Bannon. They

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Speaker 1: loved his speech. I mean, short of Trump, the next

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Speaker 1: most frenzied speech where the crowd really went wild was

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Speaker 1: for Bannon, and he did fill out return. Are you

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Speaker 1: surprised that Don Junior has sort of I mean, he

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Speaker 1: used to be so beloved by that crowd and now

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Speaker 1: they just don't really seem to care. No, they didn't

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Speaker 1: seem to care. Yeah, it was a shift. Isn't that

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Speaker 1: strange to you? I don't know if it's if it's

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Speaker 1: so strange, I think it's been a shift, I think,

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Speaker 1: but it's I think it's a wider shift, and they'll

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Speaker 1: you know, I keep coming back to the same point.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to labor it. But the real takeaway

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Speaker 1: from this weekend was the base kind of fell back

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Speaker 1: in line behind Trump and they were like, look, you

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Speaker 1: know they're all these other maga you know, personalities, whether

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Speaker 1: it's mtg or Matt Gates or Bowbird or even Don Junior.

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Speaker 1: But the sense I got was they saw their president

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Speaker 1: under siege and they came out to support him, and

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Speaker 1: that was the mentality. So if that is true, then

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Speaker 1: indictments will only help him. Yeah. And you know he

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Speaker 1: said in the in the in the gaggle with reporters

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Speaker 1: before he did a speech, you know, he was asked

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Speaker 1: by newsmaxes James Risen, you know, would you continue to

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Speaker 1: run if you're indicted? And Trump very quickly said yes.

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Speaker 1: And even though he didn't appreciate the question, you know,

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Speaker 1: he was very confident in saying that. And you know,

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Speaker 1: we had always expected that, right. It was it was

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Speaker 1: not like Trump is going to be like, oh, you

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Speaker 1: inded to me, You got me, that's right. You know,

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Speaker 1: the campaign was just a ruse. I'm going to stop running,

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Speaker 1: right He clearly saw the reception that he got, and

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Speaker 1: especially when he was mentioning Jack Smith and the criminal

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Speaker 1: investigations into the multiple criminal investigations into him, and how

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Speaker 1: the crowd came to his defense, and he knows that

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Speaker 1: if he is indicted, it will only like increase his

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Speaker 1: support amongst the base, and it would probably lead to

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Speaker 1: to I think other candidates being unable to match the

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Speaker 1: kind of frenzy that come with the surface of trumping,

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Speaker 1: Like I'm an indicted presidential candidate and Democrats are just

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Speaker 1: trying to take me down. I think that's probably true.

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Speaker 1: Now here's my question for you. Then explain this to me.

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Speaker 1: So the base came out for Trump, but I mean,

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Speaker 1: like this was only the fourth media event he's done

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Speaker 1: since he declared. Right, you won't think the sort of

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Speaker 1: poor showing at Sepack is proof, and again I don't either,

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Speaker 1: But I want to know what you think is proof

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Speaker 1: that trump Ism is on its way out. I don't

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Speaker 1: think Trumpism is on its way out at all. I

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Speaker 1: think going into Sepack, there was a lot of doubt

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Speaker 1: as to whether Trump was on his way out. Now

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Speaker 1: coming out of it. On the other endment, looking back

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Speaker 1: into trump speech, I think the base is more behind

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Speaker 1: Trump than they ever have been in the last few

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Speaker 1: months since he's announced as candidacy. As for trump Ism,

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Speaker 1: it's never really been about the policies, really, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's been it has been about the characters and about

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Speaker 1: Trump in particular. And so if Trump is not down,

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Speaker 1: then I don't see Trumpism as being down because you can't.

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Speaker 1: To me, at least, you can't really have one without

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Speaker 1: the other. Otherwise you just get, you know, right wing authoritarianism.

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Speaker 1: That's kind of how I see the Santis right. Do

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Speaker 1: you think it was a mistake of DeSantis not to

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Speaker 1: go at all? If you think about like what Trump

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Speaker 1: would have done in that situation, he would have gone.

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Speaker 1: It's a really interesting question. And I thought about this

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Speaker 1: a lot over the weekend, and I think ultimately what

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Speaker 1: DeSantis did was probably quite strategic. It was a very

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Speaker 1: maga lineup. It was very trumpy if you think about

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Speaker 1: the speakers who were there. You know, Tom Finton was

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Speaker 1: there for instance, right, They were all real, really big

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Speaker 1: kind of Trump supporters, and given how the crowd turned out,

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Speaker 1: it was a very trumpy crowd. And I think if

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Speaker 1: DeSantis had gone, not only he would he have lost

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Speaker 1: the straw poll, but he would have suffered the ignomy

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Speaker 1: of losing a straw poll and also being there and

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Speaker 1: maybe also booed, and so you know, if you're not there,

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Speaker 1: you're like, God, well, yeah, I wasn't there, So who

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Speaker 1: cares if I lost the straw pole, as unscientific as

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Speaker 1: it is. And so I think it was probably a

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Speaker 1: pretty well calculated decision for him not to have gone.

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Speaker 1: Don't you think that's the problem with all of these candidates,

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Speaker 1: is like you can pretend to ignore Trump is hum

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Speaker 1: or Trump, You could pretend to ignore Trump, but ultimately

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Speaker 1: you need that bass if you want to win the nomination. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and then that's what Trump is counting on. And I

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Speaker 1: think that's why Trump came out of that speech and

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Speaker 1: his advisors came out of that speech, you know, really

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Speaker 1: void by the reception that he got. Because everyone knows this,

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Speaker 1: including Haley and Pompeo and the Santis. They do need,

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Speaker 1: you know, at least part of that bass because now

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Speaker 1: you can win the nomination without it. It's like there

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Speaker 1: is an underlying you know thirty percent right, that is

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Speaker 1: very you know, Trump focused and Trump heavy. I just

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Speaker 1: didn't think it made any difference if the Santis had

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Speaker 1: done something else or gone and like she was always

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Speaker 1: going to lose that straw pole he was. He's always

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Speaker 1: not going to be the same as Trump. But it

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Speaker 1: does seem like these candidates are sort of ignoring Trump

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Speaker 1: or trying to run parallel to him. And again, I'm

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Speaker 1: no fan of just Santis. I'm more just talking about

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Speaker 1: the math here. The only way you possibly defeat someone

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Speaker 1: like Trump is by running against him and not around him. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, if you're gonna go for the king, you know,

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Speaker 1: you got to you gotta knock him over, right, Like

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Speaker 1: there's no point just kind of hurting him. You really

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Speaker 1: have to kind of take him out. And it's not

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Speaker 1: clear that any other candidate to Santis or otherwise has

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Speaker 1: figured out what that potent knockout blow is going to be.

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Speaker 1: It certainly hasn't been evident. Based on what Haley was

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Speaker 1: saying in her speech, she had some interesting points. You know,

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Speaker 1: she talked about barn policy and how you know when

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Speaker 1: she was you an ambassador, you know, she started taking

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Speaker 1: away you know, eight countries that you know, we're quote

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Speaker 1: unquote kind of harming the United States, and that got

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Speaker 1: a good reception. But you know, anytime she made any

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Speaker 1: sort of implicit to Trump, you know, the crowd was

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Speaker 1: not having it. And I think all of these candidates

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Speaker 1: have this problem. I'll trying to figure out how do

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Speaker 1: they take out Trump in one fell suit that actually

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Speaker 1: really does take him out? And I'm not sure that

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Speaker 1: there is an outflet to that. Hugo Lowe, thank you

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Speaker 1: so much. I hope you will come back. Congressman Jim

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Speaker 1: Hines represents Connecticut's fourth district. Welcome to Fast Politics. Representative

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Speaker 1: Jim Mines, thanks for having me, Molly. First, let's talk

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Speaker 1: about I feel like it's the breaking news that wasn't

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Speaker 1: the Wall Street Journal, lablak piece. Sure, let's talk about that.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk briefly, Please briefly about balloons, if you want

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Speaker 1: to talk about it. So I've spent the last three

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Speaker 1: weeks talking about balloons, and then something tells me you

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Speaker 1: might want to talk a little politics, which I'm happy

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Speaker 1: to do as well. Perfect, But yeah, sure, let's start

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Speaker 1: with the lab leap. I'll tell you that that's a

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Speaker 1: story where there is a lot less than meets the eye, right,

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Speaker 1: And let me tell you this, it's pretty hard to

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Speaker 1: figure out the source of a pandemic with great precision,

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Speaker 1: when you have all the facts, when you can actually

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Speaker 1: interview people and you know, take soil samples and whatever

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Speaker 1: it is that you know people at the CDC do.

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Speaker 1: We're of course struggling with the fact that we're being

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Speaker 1: obfiscated from doing that by the Chinese government. And so

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Speaker 1: I say all that just to say, look, there's probably

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Speaker 1: always going to be some uncertainty here. So anybody who

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Speaker 1: says they know exactly what happened, they are not telling

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Speaker 1: you the truth what has happened. And the reason this

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Speaker 1: is in the press right now is that one of

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Speaker 1: seventeen elements of the intelligence community, specifically the Department of Energy,

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Speaker 1: moved away from thinking it was a lab leak to

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Speaker 1: thinking that it might have been a lab leak. And

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Speaker 1: by the way, they think it might have been a

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Speaker 1: lab leak with a low degree of confidence. So that's

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Speaker 1: why I tell you that this is really a story

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Speaker 1: where there's a lot less than meets the eye. Dissatisfyingly,

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Speaker 1: we may never actually know the answer. And like everything

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Speaker 1: else that's been politicized, like you know, the Biden administration

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Speaker 1: is hiding things, and why aren't they being tougher on China.

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Speaker 1: But really it's a story where it's just a lot

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Speaker 1: less than meets the eye. In my mind, the interesting

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Speaker 1: thing about the lab leak versus the wet market theory

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Speaker 1: is that isn't the answer, like, yes, yes, make wet

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Speaker 1: markets more secure and prevent this kind of thing from

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Speaker 1: happening again. And also, yes, make labs more secure and

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Speaker 1: prevent this kind of thing. Like I don't understand how

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Speaker 1: this changes the calculus of anything. Well, exactly exactly. I

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Speaker 1: was actually just talking to somebody about this yesterday. Here's

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Speaker 1: where I sit up and say, holy smokes. I sit

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Speaker 1: up and say, holy smokes. If you can say that

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Speaker 1: this is a virus that was created by somebody, we're

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Speaker 1: altered with a specific aim of killing lots of people. Now,

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Speaker 1: there's a whole bunch of reasons why that's a very

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Speaker 1: bad idea, not least of which is you can't control

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Speaker 1: who a virus kills. But that's when I sit up

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Speaker 1: and say, holy smokes. You know, the truth is that

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Speaker 1: lab leaks happen all the time. Is it possible that

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Speaker 1: this was a ladleak? Absolutely? Would we change our approach

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Speaker 1: to the Chinese other than to say Hey, you guys

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Speaker 1: probably should be a little stricter around your labs. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I guess we could get a lot of political hey

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Speaker 1: about saying look how bad they are, But yeah, fundamentally

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Speaker 1: this doesn't radically change regardless of what the final determination

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Speaker 1: may or may not be. And look, by the way,

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Speaker 1: you could even have a you know, a case in between.

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Speaker 1: What if you had a virus that the Wuhan Center

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Speaker 1: for Coronavirus whatever it's called, found in the wild, brought

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Speaker 1: into the lab and then at LEAs who knows, and sadly,

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Speaker 1: because of the obfuscation of the Chinese government, we may

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Speaker 1: never know for sure. I mean, there's sort of gotcha

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Speaker 1: here from the right, is that somehow that somehow the

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Speaker 1: media was trying to mislead them, And there's like a

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Speaker 1: lot of supposition between low confidence of a lab of

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Speaker 1: an accidental lab leak to this was part you know,

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Speaker 1: like there you can sort of see the wheels turning.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I've watched a lot of conservative television lately,

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Speaker 1: including Seapack, so I know that the move after that

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Speaker 1: is this was Anthony Fauci's lie. Right, So this story

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Speaker 1: is getting a lot of airtime because it wins both

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Speaker 1: the Platinum and the Goal medal of right wing anger Right.

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Speaker 1: The Platinum award goes to the ability to paint the

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Speaker 1: Chinese as ineluctably evil. They were irresponsible, They've covered it up.

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Speaker 1: That's just right wing oscar territory. The other thing it

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Speaker 1: allows them to do, and here's the Gold medal and

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Speaker 1: the right wing media sweep Stakes, is to criticize the

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Speaker 1: US government even though there's no evidence whatsoever that the

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Speaker 1: US government should be criticized. You know, they can just say, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: you know, two years ago, this bureaucrat said that, and

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Speaker 1: now they're saying, you know, now the Department of Energy

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Speaker 1: is saying something different. And in some ways that's what

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Speaker 1: makes me most nervous, because I hear this twenty four seven,

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Speaker 1: which is ever since Donald Trump decided that because federal

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Speaker 1: bureaucrats are in the business they're not always successful in this,

426
00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:49,800
Speaker 1: but because they're in the business of trying to use

427
00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:53,760
Speaker 1: evidence based methods to keep our food supply safe, to

428
00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:57,879
Speaker 1: keep our society a rule of law society. Truth is

429
00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:01,640
Speaker 1: a toxin to that way of thinking, and therefore this

430
00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:04,240
Speaker 1: whole deep state theory grows up. And anytime they have

431
00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:06,760
Speaker 1: an opportunity, even if there's not a shred of evidence

432
00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:09,800
Speaker 1: to make the claim that the government is hiding something

433
00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:13,520
Speaker 1: or incompetent, or Fauci is in league with George Soros.

434
00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:17,359
Speaker 1: That's just you know, catint for them. Yes, and so

435
00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:21,119
Speaker 1: speaking of China, the whole idea here is the idea

436
00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:24,280
Speaker 1: on the conservative side that somehow democrats like China better

437
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:28,000
Speaker 1: than Russia. As we both know, Republicans have done a

438
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:32,600
Speaker 1: lot of bonding with Russia, they like it, and various

439
00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:36,320
Speaker 1: autocrats and now we're in this involved in this Ukraine.

440
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:38,199
Speaker 1: So there are certainly a lot of the sort of

441
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:41,120
Speaker 1: far right fringe that loves Russia, and they sort of

442
00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:43,719
Speaker 1: they sort of are trying to imply the Democrats like China.

443
00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:46,080
Speaker 1: That's going to move us to our next question about

444
00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:51,840
Speaker 1: the balloons. I'm sorry, I apologize in advance for the balloons.

445
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:56,240
Speaker 1: The idea here Conservatives were furious at the balloon that

446
00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:59,480
Speaker 1: Biden had not shot down the balloons sooner, even though

447
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:02,639
Speaker 1: it does seem that he was advised not to shoot

448
00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:05,560
Speaker 1: down the balloon sooner. Just quickly, let's do the balloons

449
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:08,439
Speaker 1: for five minutes. Also, isn't it interesting that nobody the

450
00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:13,880
Speaker 1: balloons have completely disappeared now from the consciousness. Let's talk balloons.

451
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:15,879
Speaker 1: But let's spend forty five seconds on what you just say,

452
00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:18,479
Speaker 1: because it's really important. I think you're right. I do

453
00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:20,920
Speaker 1: think that in some right wing circles there is this

454
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:24,000
Speaker 1: notion that, you know, the Democrats somehow like China better

455
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:26,080
Speaker 1: than they like Russia. And look, this goes back to

456
00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:30,040
Speaker 1: Donald Trump, right, who you know, loved Vladimir Putin, right,

457
00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:32,560
Speaker 1: stood there with Vladimir Putin and said, I don't believe

458
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:36,680
Speaker 1: my own intelligence community. I believe you standing there in Rakjevic, right.

459
00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:39,280
Speaker 1: And you know, there's all sorts of background reasons why

460
00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:41,720
Speaker 1: the right wing likes Russia. Right. You know, Vladimir Putin

461
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:44,879
Speaker 1: is blue brutal on the LGBT population. You know, if

462
00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:47,399
Speaker 1: you're Donald Trump and you you have the power to

463
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:51,600
Speaker 1: make your security services hurl your opponents from seven story windows,

464
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:54,000
Speaker 1: as seems to happen an awful lot in Russia. If

465
00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:56,280
Speaker 1: you're Donald Trump sitting in marlagoh man, you wish you

466
00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:58,200
Speaker 1: could do that, right, But I mean, my god, look

467
00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:00,560
Speaker 1: at the history here, right. You know who the opening

468
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:03,360
Speaker 1: to China. It was Richard Nixon, Republican president who did

469
00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:05,320
Speaker 1: the sort of opening to Gorbachev, you know, it was

470
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:08,320
Speaker 1: Ronald Reagan, you know. So my point is that the

471
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:10,400
Speaker 1: notion that we like one country more than the other,

472
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:12,840
Speaker 1: it's just sort of an absurd notion that reflects their

473
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:17,600
Speaker 1: own Trumpian views of the world. But onto balloons, great,

474
00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:21,600
Speaker 1: onto balloons, yes, more importantly, onto balloons, well, equally important

475
00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:24,040
Speaker 1: because the other thing I think that's really important that

476
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:27,280
Speaker 1: we talk about is this idea we really are in

477
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:30,640
Speaker 1: a situation as a country where we want neither war

478
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:35,119
Speaker 1: with Russia nor China. Yeah, that's right, and for good reason, right,

479
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:38,240
Speaker 1: I mean, these are nuclear armed powers, right, we want

480
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:40,920
Speaker 1: to go to great links to avoid war. But again

481
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:43,360
Speaker 1: we need we need to just have the very basic

482
00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:47,080
Speaker 1: smarts here. Right. Russia is a country that does not

483
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 1: matter to us a lot economically. Right. It's very uncomfortable

484
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:53,439
Speaker 1: when they stop sending their oil to Germany. Right, but

485
00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:57,760
Speaker 1: it's very tiny. It's economy is smaller than California, exactly,

486
00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:01,240
Speaker 1: well smaller than California. So and by the way, they

487
00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:04,480
Speaker 1: are I think of them as almost sort of vandals, right,

488
00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 1: you know, they just sort of go they just do

489
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:10,640
Speaker 1: things in the world to destabilize democracies and stuff the Chinese. Look,

490
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:13,440
Speaker 1: there's all kinds of reasons to be angry at the Chinese.

491
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:16,160
Speaker 1: Their human rights record, the way they treat the Muslims

492
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:18,719
Speaker 1: in their western provinces, the way they steal our I mean,

493
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:20,280
Speaker 1: I could go on all day. There's all kinds of

494
00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 1: reasons to be angry at the Chinese as well, not

495
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:26,080
Speaker 1: least of which is they're perhaps interest invading Taiwan. But

496
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:29,160
Speaker 1: they're different, right, They own a trillion dollars of United

497
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:32,760
Speaker 1: States Treasury bonds. Right, that's a problem. There's something like

498
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:35,159
Speaker 1: six or seven hundred billion dollars. They're one of our

499
00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:37,919
Speaker 1: largest trading partners. So you just need to think about

500
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:42,320
Speaker 1: them a little bit differently, right, Exactly, it's not the same.

501
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:45,720
Speaker 1: The two things are not comparable. But just the balloons quickly,

502
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:50,160
Speaker 1: I mean, these are like eleven miles up, these balloons, right. Yeah.

503
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:54,160
Speaker 1: The idea here on the conservative side was that somehow

504
00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:57,440
Speaker 1: these balloons going over Montana, we're spying in a way.

505
00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:01,280
Speaker 1: The Chinese satellites were not discussed. There's reasons why you

506
00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:03,960
Speaker 1: might want balloons. Why a fancy satellite can cost you

507
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:06,760
Speaker 1: a billion dollars, right, A balloon costs you almost nothing.

508
00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:09,520
Speaker 1: So you know, if you have a strategy that says

509
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:11,720
Speaker 1: we're going to float balloons over Taiwan to see what's

510
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:13,760
Speaker 1: going on, that balloon's gonna get shot down in one day.

511
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:15,520
Speaker 1: But you know what, it doesn't cost us much. There's

512
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:18,240
Speaker 1: reasons right. Satellite is also move pretty fast. Balloons moved

513
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:19,760
Speaker 1: pretty slow, so if you really want to get a

514
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:22,040
Speaker 1: good look at something, so there's a logic why you

515
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:24,320
Speaker 1: might want to have a balloon. The first balloon was

516
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:27,600
Speaker 1: absolutely a Chinese five balloon. Everybody's angry, or at least

517
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:29,720
Speaker 1: the Republicans are angry at Biden for not shooting it down,

518
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:31,840
Speaker 1: to which I would say two things. As we watched

519
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:34,199
Speaker 1: that balloon drift over the United States, Boy did we

520
00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:36,480
Speaker 1: learn a lot about that balloon that we wouldn't have

521
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:38,560
Speaker 1: learned if we'd blown it out of the sky over

522
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:41,399
Speaker 1: the Pacific. Number two, they say, oh, but lots of

523
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:44,760
Speaker 1: secret Scott exposed folks under the Open Skies Treaty. You

524
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:47,600
Speaker 1: can look it up on Wikipedia. Under the Open Skies Treaty,

525
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:52,040
Speaker 1: Russian military aircraft overfly our missile fields with some regularity,

526
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:53,800
Speaker 1: and by the way, we do that with them too,

527
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:55,119
Speaker 1: and the idea is that we get a look at

528
00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:57,280
Speaker 1: what they're doing to make sure they're abiding by their agreements.

529
00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:00,359
Speaker 1: So it turns out we're really really good when we

530
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:03,200
Speaker 1: know that a Russian aircraft is coming, or in particular

531
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:06,200
Speaker 1: Russian aircraft or a Chinese balloon, we're really good at

532
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:08,200
Speaker 1: closing the doors and hiding the stuff that we don't

533
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:09,760
Speaker 1: want to see. So I don't think a lot of

534
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:12,560
Speaker 1: good stuff was lost to that balloon, and we got

535
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:14,320
Speaker 1: a chance to get a really good look at how

536
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:16,520
Speaker 1: it behaves, what it's made of, what its attributes are.

537
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:19,399
Speaker 1: So I think the President did the right thing. His

538
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:21,680
Speaker 1: military commanders advised him not to shoot it down because

539
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:23,560
Speaker 1: of the risk of people on the ground. And again

540
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:25,840
Speaker 1: back to the Republicans, if the President has shot it

541
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:28,320
Speaker 1: down over Montana, they would be blowing him up for

542
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:32,120
Speaker 1: ignoring the advice of his military commander. So exactly, so,

543
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:35,879
Speaker 1: I want to know, we were talking about the Chinese balloons,

544
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:39,200
Speaker 1: talking about China, talking about how do you work in

545
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 1: the new McCarthy Congress. Let's go well, so in my

546
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:47,000
Speaker 1: own little world of the Intelligence Committee, we're working pretty well.

547
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:51,640
Speaker 1: My Republican chairman, Mike Turner is a serious national security guy.

548
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 1: I see him making a real effort to be bipartisan.

549
00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:58,600
Speaker 1: He did not like the way the Intelligence Committee was

550
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 1: in the last couple of years when it so politicized.

551
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:03,840
Speaker 1: So he's making a good effort. Bigger picture, Republicans aren't

552
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:05,720
Speaker 1: going to really pass anything. Certainly are not going to

553
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 1: pass anything that became law. And I want you and

554
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:10,720
Speaker 1: everybody else to look at what they're doing and think

555
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 1: what we did two years, right, we control the place.

556
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:16,600
Speaker 1: Two years we capped drug prices insulin thirty five dollars.

557
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:18,880
Speaker 1: We made the biggest investment in our infrastructure since the

558
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:22,560
Speaker 1: Eisenhower era. We made the biggest investment in addressing climate

559
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 1: change ever. You know, we did a bipartisan gun safety think.

560
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 1: I could go on. I could talk for the next

561
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:30,200
Speaker 1: ten minutes about the things that we did that will,

562
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:32,760
Speaker 1: over time make a life better for the American people.

563
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 1: And you know what we've seen out of a Republican Congress.

564
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:38,800
Speaker 1: They kicked ill on Omar off the Foreign Affairs Committee.

565
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:43,960
Speaker 1: Yesterday we got this weird plan to reduce inflation by

566
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:48,480
Speaker 1: making the president determine how inflationary and executive order is.

567
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:51,640
Speaker 1: It's just bananas, right, and because I have a fundamental

568
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:54,720
Speaker 1: faith in the intelligence of the American people. At the

569
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:56,800
Speaker 1: end of two years under McCarthy, they're going to say,

570
00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:58,880
Speaker 1: oh my god, what did you guys? Do you focused

571
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:03,280
Speaker 1: on Hunter Biden's la top You focused on drag story

572
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:08,320
Speaker 1: hours at library? Democrats cut the price of our prescription drugs. Man,

573
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:11,720
Speaker 1: let me run in twenty twenty four. With that as

574
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:14,479
Speaker 1: the contrast, Biden has said this much. It seems like

575
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:20,720
Speaker 1: the Republican Congress is very much helping the Democrats. Yeah. Again,

576
00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:23,640
Speaker 1: there are serious issues out there. I hear them every

577
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:28,440
Speaker 1: single day in Fairfield County, Connecticut. Forget about rural Mississippi,

578
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:33,800
Speaker 1: serious issues, economic anxiety, drug prices are too high, the

579
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:37,560
Speaker 1: rent is too high. If the Republicans spend the next

580
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:42,760
Speaker 1: two years fighting culture war battles about drag story hour

581
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:46,920
Speaker 1: at some library in Orlando, they're going to get dusted

582
00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:51,360
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty four. Right, exactly, how are you about

583
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:55,719
Speaker 1: this DC Council Joe Biden thing, because that seems like

584
00:30:56,120 --> 00:31:00,640
Speaker 1: there's a call for DC statehood. Can you explain it

585
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:04,160
Speaker 1: to our listeners and just where you come down on it. Yeah, yeah,

586
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:07,800
Speaker 1: So the explanation is pretty straightforward. The City of Washington,

587
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:12,080
Speaker 1: as a federal city doesn't really control its own destiny.

588
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 1: And what I mean by that is that Congress can

589
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:18,440
Speaker 1: override the decisions that the mayor and the City Council

590
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 1: of Washington make. That's just the law. I don't think

591
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:24,480
Speaker 1: it should be the law because I happen to believe

592
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:27,480
Speaker 1: in democracy and that people should govern themselves. Crazy idea,

593
00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:32,160
Speaker 1: I know, but that's the fact. And so, and when

594
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 1: two bills came before the House three weeks ago to

595
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:38,840
Speaker 1: override two different laws that the City Council and do

596
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:42,800
Speaker 1: Order were made for the city of Washington, I voted

597
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:45,760
Speaker 1: no on overriding them. I didn't even think too too

598
00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:49,360
Speaker 1: hard about what those laws were because my fundamental belief

599
00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 1: is that the people of Washington should determine the laws

600
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 1: that they live under, and that the representative from Connecticut's

601
00:31:56,440 --> 00:32:00,080
Speaker 1: fourth District shouldn't override their will. Again, all the crazy,

602
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:03,400
Speaker 1: but I believe in self determination and democracy. Now the

603
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:07,320
Speaker 1: President has made a different choice. You know, he apparently

604
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:10,000
Speaker 1: is going to let this go through. I'm not going

605
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:12,320
Speaker 1: to try to explain to you why he is doing that,

606
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:15,760
Speaker 1: but I am puzzled because he supports DC statehood which

607
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:18,720
Speaker 1: presumably means he supports the people of the city of

608
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 1: the District of Columbia controlling their own destiny. And that's

609
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:25,480
Speaker 1: not what's about to happen if he vetoes this thing.

610
00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:29,560
Speaker 1: So I'm trying to be consistent. Again. I can't imagine

611
00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:31,640
Speaker 1: a case in which I would seek to override a

612
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:34,280
Speaker 1: law that was democratically passed by the city of Washington.

613
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:37,240
Speaker 1: But the President obviously has a different view. Yeah, it's

614
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:40,800
Speaker 1: so interesting. Tell me what's on your radar for now

615
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:43,160
Speaker 1: that what's coming up. Yeah, you know, the big thing

616
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:44,920
Speaker 1: on my radar is not something that is going to

617
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:46,760
Speaker 1: make a lot of headlines. But we've got a lot

618
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:49,520
Speaker 1: of work to do to make sure that the incredible

619
00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:51,560
Speaker 1: stuff that we passed in the last Congress, and I'm

620
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:55,640
Speaker 1: talking about the immense amounts of infrastructure investment that is

621
00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:58,720
Speaker 1: going to you know, rebuild our bridges and provide broadband

622
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:01,360
Speaker 1: to people who don't have it. Today, I'm talking about

623
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:04,760
Speaker 1: the Chips Semiconductor Bill, which is supposefully going to move

624
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:08,200
Speaker 1: a lot of the semiconductor business back to our shores.

625
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:10,080
Speaker 1: We have a lot of work to do to make

626
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 1: sure that that those resources get deployed intelligently, without fraud,

627
00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:18,080
Speaker 1: without waste, and that they get deployed quickly, right because

628
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:20,840
Speaker 1: these problems are not problems five years from now, they're

629
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:24,360
Speaker 1: problems today. So that's not sexy stuff that sort of

630
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:27,760
Speaker 1: falls into the category of oversight and implementation. But if

631
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:30,120
Speaker 1: we're going to turn a bunch of headlines into real

632
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:32,520
Speaker 1: benefit for the people that I represent, it's going to

633
00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:36,160
Speaker 1: be because we really push to get that investment made

634
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:40,400
Speaker 1: intelligently and quickly. I love chips and we have had

635
00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:44,360
Speaker 1: many many Inport Jesse. We've had many, many interviews about

636
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:48,920
Speaker 1: the Chips Act, including Gina Romando. It's really an important issue,

637
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:53,880
Speaker 1: the Chips Act. There is an environmental rule in the

638
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:58,800
Speaker 1: Chips Act that there's been some encouragement that the administration

639
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 1: should sort of right right around four. Are you going

640
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:09,880
Speaker 1: to push them to follow that environmental the more standard

641
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:13,480
Speaker 1: environmental laws that we have. Yeah, yeah, So let me

642
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:17,719
Speaker 1: answer that. Not with chips, because with chips we're building factories, okay,

643
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:20,799
Speaker 1: and you're building factories. You're talking about a lot of

644
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:23,200
Speaker 1: local zoning, a lot of this, and that I will

645
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:25,520
Speaker 1: tell you that we need to do this quickly. Right,

646
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:28,760
Speaker 1: It's not good enough to have fixed this problem twenty

647
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:31,160
Speaker 1: years from now. But let me redirect your question a

648
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:34,320
Speaker 1: little bit around the infrastructure, right, because the infrastructure is

649
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:38,000
Speaker 1: in a couple of factories. The infrastructure is rebuilding our

650
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:43,319
Speaker 1: electrical our national electrical transmission system. And here's why that's

651
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:46,200
Speaker 1: an interesting topic, more interesting than it sounds on the surface. Right.

652
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:49,359
Speaker 1: You know, we are doing advanced battery technology, we're trying

653
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:52,160
Speaker 1: to transition to electric cars. You know, we're building out

654
00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:55,720
Speaker 1: charging stations. In order for all of that stuff to work,

655
00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:59,359
Speaker 1: we need to rebuild our electrical transmission system. Now, these

656
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:02,160
Speaker 1: are the wire You see these in certain places out

657
00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:04,480
Speaker 1: west and everywhere. You see them on the horizon, massive

658
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:08,239
Speaker 1: towers carrying power, carrying wind power from Texas to you

659
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:10,680
Speaker 1: wherever it goes. And we need to rebuild that. And

660
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:13,080
Speaker 1: the problem is that if we move at the same

661
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:16,760
Speaker 1: pace that we typically move, we'll rebuild it thirty years

662
00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:20,480
Speaker 1: from now, which is not fast enough to address the

663
00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:23,719
Speaker 1: carbon problem in our atmosphere. So the answer to your

664
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:26,439
Speaker 1: question at the end of that long speech is yes,

665
00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:31,480
Speaker 1: we absolutely need to do permitting reform that balances the

666
00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:35,239
Speaker 1: need to not do stupid things environmentally with the absolute

667
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:39,360
Speaker 1: imperative that we rebuild our energy system in as rapid

668
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:41,880
Speaker 1: a pace as possible so that we don't end up

669
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:45,000
Speaker 1: with a planet that is uninhabitable. So I do support

670
00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:48,560
Speaker 1: permitting reform. I know the President supports permitting reform. That's

671
00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:50,920
Speaker 1: not to say a responsible permitting reform. But if we're

672
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:54,160
Speaker 1: going to change the way we still our atmosphere with

673
00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:56,759
Speaker 1: carbon quickly, it's because we're going to move a lot

674
00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:58,880
Speaker 1: more rapidly on the projects that we need to do

675
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:02,439
Speaker 1: to actually do that solve that problem. Jim Himes, thank

676
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:04,960
Speaker 1: you so much for joining us. Thank you, Molly. Always

677
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 1: fun to talk. Samantha Power is the administrator of USAID.

678
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:15,680
Speaker 1: Welcome too fast Politics. Samantha Power. Great to be here.

679
00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:19,240
Speaker 1: We have so much to talk about. First, I wanted

680
00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:22,120
Speaker 1: to talk to you about what is the sort of

681
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:24,920
Speaker 1: most recent thing that you guys have been working on,

682
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:30,279
Speaker 1: which is the situation in Ukraine. Can you talk to

683
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:33,239
Speaker 1: us a little bit about It's a year and that's

684
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:36,160
Speaker 1: been a very important moment for a lot of reasons,

685
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:40,479
Speaker 1: and including in the refugee crisis. Just stepping back, it's

686
00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:47,080
Speaker 1: a year since Putin gratuitously decided to inflict brutality and

687
00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:50,080
Speaker 1: try to take over a sovereign member of the United Nations,

688
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 1: and a year in which President Biden rallied the democracies

689
00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:58,640
Speaker 1: of the world, but not only the democracies of the world,

690
00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:01,040
Speaker 1: more than one hundred and four countries at the UN

691
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:04,279
Speaker 1: to condemn the invasion multiple times now, which I know

692
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:07,240
Speaker 1: from having been a UN ambassador is not easy because

693
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:12,600
Speaker 1: people's interests fade. The intimidation and pressure that the Russian

694
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:16,320
Speaker 1: Federation places on countries not to vote to do something

695
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:18,759
Speaker 1: that might to the outsiders seem kind of symbolic, which

696
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:22,120
Speaker 1: is vote against Russia is pretty hard for small countries

697
00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:25,520
Speaker 1: to withstand, particularly those who are invulnerable parts of the world.

698
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:29,200
Speaker 1: So the coalition is held really strong. As President Biden

699
00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:32,319
Speaker 1: often talks about, Putin went in thinking he would take

700
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:35,400
Speaker 1: Ukraine in a matter of days and also thought he

701
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:39,920
Speaker 1: would weaken NATO and divide the world, and it's really

702
00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:43,600
Speaker 1: been quite the contrary. Basically, just about everything that Putin

703
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:46,800
Speaker 1: thought would happen has not happened, and its opposite has happened.

704
00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:49,680
Speaker 1: In terms of USAID, which is the part that I

705
00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:51,719
Speaker 1: get to work on every day, and I feel just

706
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:54,720
Speaker 1: really fortunate to be in this job at this time.

707
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:58,319
Speaker 1: We are touching a lot of aspects of the war,

708
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:00,799
Speaker 1: and in a way that a lot of Americans probably

709
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:02,880
Speaker 1: aren't that aware of. Can you back up for a

710
00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:06,239
Speaker 1: second and explain, because I don't know that everybody knows

711
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:10,280
Speaker 1: what USAID is. So USAID is the world's premier development

712
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:15,640
Speaker 1: and humanitarian agency, and we basically do everything from respond

713
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:20,600
Speaker 1: to humanitarian emergencies, sending disaster assistance response teams like we

714
00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:24,600
Speaker 1: just did in response to the earthquake in Syria and Turkey,

715
00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:29,480
Speaker 1: figuring out in a sense where we spend taxpayer resources,

716
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:34,600
Speaker 1: which humanitarian organizations we give them those resources, to feeding people,

717
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:40,839
Speaker 1: providing medical care, providing mental health services to women who've

718
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:44,200
Speaker 1: suffered sexual violence, you name it. So that's all in

719
00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:47,440
Speaker 1: the emergency space. And then in the so called development space,

720
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:51,080
Speaker 1: we're doing everything from vaccinating the world as we did

721
00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:52,759
Speaker 1: over the course of the the last couple of years, the

722
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:56,959
Speaker 1: developing countries, I should say, particularly to investing in food

723
00:38:57,000 --> 00:38:59,719
Speaker 1: security to make sure that farmers actually have access to

724
00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:03,520
Speaker 1: see needs that are more drought and heat resistant, given

725
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:07,160
Speaker 1: what's the climate change that is walloping so many countries period,

726
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:10,239
Speaker 1: so many communities period, but especially those living on the

727
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:13,200
Speaker 1: margins are the hardest hit, as is so often the case.

728
00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 1: And then we do democracy support, helping countries build independent

729
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:22,399
Speaker 1: media sectors. In Ukraine well before this invasion, we help

730
00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:25,640
Speaker 1: the country build up its anti corruption institutions, which of

731
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:29,880
Speaker 1: course we're not working flawlessly, but nonetheless are are part

732
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:33,520
Speaker 1: of what President Zelenski's been using to crack down on

733
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:38,640
Speaker 1: corruption allegations. Even during the war. We've helped the Ukrainians

734
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:41,840
Speaker 1: again pre war, pre this war, build something called the

735
00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:44,200
Speaker 1: Ministry of Digital Transformation. They have some of the best

736
00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:48,120
Speaker 1: cybersecurity in the world. That's USAID investments there, and now

737
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:50,040
Speaker 1: that the war has started, just to pivot to that,

738
00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:54,440
Speaker 1: when Putin tries to take out critical energy infrastructure, it

739
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:57,759
Speaker 1: is USAID more than any other actor and more than

740
00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:01,440
Speaker 1: any other country that is whooping in to provide everything

741
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:08,480
Speaker 1: from generators to boilers, to replacement pipes, to additional engineering support,

742
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:14,120
Speaker 1: to rotating power plants or mobile power plants. And so

743
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:18,319
Speaker 1: we've dedicated about four hundred billion dollars to so called

744
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:23,359
Speaker 1: winterization efforts, namely, as Putin tried to weaponize winter and

745
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:26,839
Speaker 1: in a sense freeze people into wanting to turn over

746
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:30,560
Speaker 1: territory or end the war, we try to offset that

747
00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:35,359
Speaker 1: tactic and keep people warm, and we're heading towards spring here.

748
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:37,919
Speaker 1: We're not there yet. It's still bitter cold in many

749
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:40,239
Speaker 1: parts of Ukraine, but at least in a sense to

750
00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:44,920
Speaker 1: buy time, so that again the Ukrainian military, which has

751
00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:48,759
Speaker 1: been so brave and so fearsome really on the battlefield,

752
00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:52,040
Speaker 1: you know, you would hate for something on the civilian

753
00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:55,280
Speaker 1: side to be the difference between whether on the military

754
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:57,680
Speaker 1: side they were able to prevail. But if the lights

755
00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:00,320
Speaker 1: were to go out on the state, if pension weren't

756
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:02,480
Speaker 1: get weren't to get paid, if health services were to

757
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:05,719
Speaker 1: shut down, and those are all things that USAID is

758
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:09,400
Speaker 1: helping support again thanks to bipartisan support from Congress. You know,

759
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:11,479
Speaker 1: that would really undermine the war effort as a whole.

760
00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:15,040
Speaker 1: So while the latest military system, you know, gets the headlines,

761
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:20,880
Speaker 1: how medical institutions in Ukraine continue to function for civilians,

762
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:24,799
Speaker 1: how people manage not to freeze to death, that's all

763
00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:29,279
Speaker 1: in the purview of USAID. USAID. Yes, you've been a

764
00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:34,120
Speaker 1: war correspondent, You've won a Pulitzer Prize, not nothing, and

765
00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:37,600
Speaker 1: you've had, you know, all of these government jobs. I'm curious,

766
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:41,919
Speaker 1: like how that informs you know, you were in Bosnia, right,

767
00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:46,200
Speaker 1: which was like one of the worst wars of our lifetime.

768
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:49,279
Speaker 1: I mean, just can you explain a little bit. Now

769
00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:53,640
Speaker 1: you are running an organization that serves the people that

770
00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:57,759
Speaker 1: you couldn't serve when you were reporting on Bosnia, I mean,

771
00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:00,720
Speaker 1: how does that inform Yeah, no, it's it's a great question.

772
00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:02,480
Speaker 1: I'd say a couple of things. I mean, first, just

773
00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:06,799
Speaker 1: on the specifics of having covered Bosnia as a war

774
00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:12,640
Speaker 1: correspondent and now seeing Ukraine, it's chillingly familiar in many

775
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:17,440
Speaker 1: respects the use of sexual violence as a seemingly willful

776
00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:20,440
Speaker 1: tactic of war. A fair amount of evidence just in

777
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:23,200
Speaker 1: the sense that everywhere Russian forces have occupied you see

778
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:26,680
Speaker 1: women who have been subjected to gang rape and imprisoned

779
00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:31,799
Speaker 1: and again having had sexual torture inflicted upon them, and

780
00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:36,160
Speaker 1: then the mass graves of course emerging for every territory

781
00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:39,239
Speaker 1: that Ukraine takes back. That's a lot like what was

782
00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:42,920
Speaker 1: happening in the form of Yugoslavia. And recall that was

783
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:45,600
Speaker 1: an anomaly at the time where it felt like an anomaly,

784
00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:47,720
Speaker 1: and that the Cold War had ended, people were feeling

785
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:50,719
Speaker 1: very hopeful. So Union had collapsed. It looked like democracy

786
00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:53,760
Speaker 1: was on the march. Now, I think what is so

787
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:57,560
Speaker 1: grim about today's war in Ukraine is it is a

788
00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:04,240
Speaker 1: superpower bringing those same tactics, that same effort to strip

789
00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:08,120
Speaker 1: a people of their identity, of their dignity, and again

790
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:12,400
Speaker 1: to just inflict horrific suffering with the population size of

791
00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:17,920
Speaker 1: the Russian Federation, with the military stockpiles of the Russian Federation,

792
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:21,680
Speaker 1: you know, not not just some small makeshift Bosnian Serb army,

793
00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:23,800
Speaker 1: you know, back in the day. And so when you combine,

794
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:28,720
Speaker 1: even if the Russians are performing very badly and obviously

795
00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:33,360
Speaker 1: didn't think this through or plan properly, nonetheless they have

796
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:35,400
Speaker 1: a lot of firepower to bring to bear on behalf

797
00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:38,280
Speaker 1: of the war crimes that they appear to be committing

798
00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:41,080
Speaker 1: in the areas that they operate. So it's it's kind

799
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:43,360
Speaker 1: of it takes what I experienced up close in a

800
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:45,600
Speaker 1: small scale. I mean, it was a big scale for

801
00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:49,319
Speaker 1: anybody who was suffering at the time, but it just

802
00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:52,920
Speaker 1: puts it on steroids almost, And that's what's chilling. I

803
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:57,480
Speaker 1: will say, I do take some solace from my experience

804
00:43:57,480 --> 00:44:00,560
Speaker 1: in that when I was a war correspond and so

805
00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:03,560
Speaker 1: many of our years. In my colleagues who are still

806
00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:06,640
Speaker 1: you know, around and writing, you know, had that seminal

807
00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:09,160
Speaker 1: experience as well, because it was really where a lot

808
00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:11,719
Speaker 1: of journalists kind of cut their teeth at that time

809
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:15,560
Speaker 1: in the nineties. But we would never have guessed that

810
00:44:15,719 --> 00:44:20,239
Speaker 1: these warlords and political leaders who were inflicting such pain

811
00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:22,960
Speaker 1: on civilians that they ever would have been held accountable.

812
00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:24,520
Speaker 1: It would have been it would have been like saying,

813
00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:26,200
Speaker 1: you know, my next job was going to be to

814
00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:28,440
Speaker 1: be an astronaut, like it was, so it would have

815
00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:33,120
Speaker 1: been so crazy. They were so filled with arrogance and confidence.

816
00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:37,360
Speaker 1: And it's not to say that there are inevitable parallels

817
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:40,800
Speaker 1: between what's happening in Ukraine and what happened in Bosnia,

818
00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:42,840
Speaker 1: but it is to say, you just don't know. And

819
00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:45,799
Speaker 1: so there's a lot of skepticism. Oh okay, usaid, you're

820
00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:49,120
Speaker 1: helping document all these war crimes. We've helped document more

821
00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:51,719
Speaker 1: than thirty thousand war crime alleged work crimes so far

822
00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:54,800
Speaker 1: in Ukraine. But people said, oh, yeah, but look at Putin.

823
00:44:55,080 --> 00:44:57,399
Speaker 1: You know, he's there at his long table, and how

824
00:44:57,480 --> 00:44:59,440
Speaker 1: is that ever going to change? And people are afraid

825
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:02,040
Speaker 1: of him? And not to say again that anybody can

826
00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:04,640
Speaker 1: predict precisely what's going to happen, right, but you have

827
00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:08,440
Speaker 1: this reference point of Bosnia. Yeah, it's a contingent, you know,

828
00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:10,239
Speaker 1: and all you can you know, like I always say

829
00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:12,759
Speaker 1: to my kids, control what you can control. All we

830
00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:16,520
Speaker 1: can control at this point, as it relates on that matter,

831
00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:22,279
Speaker 1: is to document, to take depositions, you know, to establish

832
00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:27,000
Speaker 1: courtroom ready stockpiles of evidence. And it could be anything

833
00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:30,560
Speaker 1: from a Russian who travels and then and that has happened,

834
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:34,360
Speaker 1: you know, and travels and then gets extradited to Ukraine.

835
00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:37,080
Speaker 1: Or it could be that the International Criminal Court ends

836
00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:39,839
Speaker 1: up taking up a case because they've opened an investigation.

837
00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:42,840
Speaker 1: We are building this evidence at the Human Rights Council.

838
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:45,400
Speaker 1: So again the point is simply, we know from history

839
00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:48,480
Speaker 1: that life is long and unfortunately the people being having

840
00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:51,520
Speaker 1: these walcomes inflicted. The pain is now. But we do

841
00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:55,680
Speaker 1: have responsibility to build that record and history may turn.

842
00:45:55,719 --> 00:45:57,880
Speaker 1: And just to close the loop on Bosnia, of course,

843
00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:01,399
Speaker 1: these names are now you know, bit nobody's talking about

844
00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:04,239
Speaker 1: these people in any board but rock Go Lottage, sloban On, Miloshevich,

845
00:46:04,520 --> 00:46:08,120
Speaker 1: Rodivan carriage. They just you know, they were strutting around

846
00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:12,240
Speaker 1: and they all ended up behind bars. Yeah, it strikes

847
00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:15,880
Speaker 1: me that there are like a number of issues with

848
00:46:16,040 --> 00:46:20,560
Speaker 1: what's happening in Ukraine and China's relationship with Russia and

849
00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:23,200
Speaker 1: how you guys navigate that, you know, it is very,

850
00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:26,680
Speaker 1: very challenging. China is a permanent member of the Security Council,

851
00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:29,879
Speaker 1: as is the United States, as is Russia. We would

852
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:33,720
Speaker 1: expect that the People's Republic of China, which has long

853
00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:37,359
Speaker 1: stressed the importance of sovereignty right as a way of

854
00:46:37,520 --> 00:46:41,560
Speaker 1: keeping countries from looking into human rights conditions inside the PRC.

855
00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:45,840
Speaker 1: Chinese diplomats have always talked about sovereignty and it's every

856
00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:49,040
Speaker 1: state's right to do what it wants within its borders

857
00:46:49,120 --> 00:46:51,960
Speaker 1: and territorial integrity and all the like. We would have

858
00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:54,879
Speaker 1: expected a country that, for so many years, I should

859
00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:57,959
Speaker 1: say we would have expected, we would have hoped that

860
00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:00,919
Speaker 1: a country that over so many years made so much

861
00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:06,759
Speaker 1: of sovereignty and territorial integrity would leap to publicly and

862
00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:11,120
Speaker 1: plainly make clear that what the Russian Federation is doing,

863
00:47:11,239 --> 00:47:15,160
Speaker 1: namely trying to erase a UN member state, is not

864
00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:19,080
Speaker 1: only antithetical to the UN Charter, and to all international

865
00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:21,759
Speaker 1: humanitarian law in terms of the way they're prosecuting that war,

866
00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:26,640
Speaker 1: but completely antithetical to what the Chinese leadership have been

867
00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:28,960
Speaker 1: saying four decades that, you know, what has been the

868
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:32,719
Speaker 1: core of the foreign policy message from Beijing that has

869
00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:37,080
Speaker 1: not happened. Obviously, the growing relationship prior to this war

870
00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:42,640
Speaker 1: between President Putin and President She their shared interest in

871
00:47:43,080 --> 00:47:46,319
Speaker 1: not having human rights norms, wanting human rights norms to

872
00:47:46,360 --> 00:47:50,080
Speaker 1: be weakened, hoping that they would not have traction, wanting

873
00:47:50,120 --> 00:47:52,440
Speaker 1: to be able to lock up who they want within

874
00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:55,760
Speaker 1: their own borders or do what they want to ethnic

875
00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:58,640
Speaker 1: minorities within their borders. So they have a lot of

876
00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:01,879
Speaker 1: shared interests of that nature in terms of what they

877
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:05,480
Speaker 1: want the international rules of the road to be. And

878
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:09,560
Speaker 1: as a result, I think you see Beijing again acting

879
00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:14,719
Speaker 1: and talking inconsistently in many respects from their previous positions.

880
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:18,279
Speaker 1: Now that said, Molly, you know what's noteworthy is notwithstanding

881
00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:21,120
Speaker 1: the closeness of that personal relationship between the two leaders,

882
00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:23,640
Speaker 1: I think they referred prior to the wars this being

883
00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:27,240
Speaker 1: a relationship without limits. That was the language. And yet

884
00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:31,160
Speaker 1: the PARC is not standing with Russia either, So they

885
00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:36,320
Speaker 1: are notably abstaining and in a sense trying to stay

886
00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:39,759
Speaker 1: trying to still sort of say that they're very much

887
00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:42,720
Speaker 1: in favor of sovereignty in tertial integrity, and yet also

888
00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:45,479
Speaker 1: now having just put forward a peace plan. I think

889
00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:48,800
Speaker 1: we are You and I are talking during a week

890
00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:52,120
Speaker 1: where we in the United States and our allies have

891
00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:58,040
Speaker 1: expressed concern that the PARC may take decisions now that

892
00:48:58,080 --> 00:49:01,319
Speaker 1: would put them more squarely on on Russia's side in

893
00:49:01,360 --> 00:49:04,400
Speaker 1: waging this war of aggression, namely, if they were to

894
00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:08,560
Speaker 1: provide lethal assistance that would be moving the PRC into

895
00:49:08,600 --> 00:49:13,560
Speaker 1: a much more frontally aligned position with Moscow. We have

896
00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:15,920
Speaker 1: seen no indication, to be clear, that they have yet

897
00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:18,560
Speaker 1: made this decision. You've seen a lot of US diplomacy

898
00:49:18,600 --> 00:49:22,560
Speaker 1: and public statements to just underscore what a terrible mistake

899
00:49:22,600 --> 00:49:25,480
Speaker 1: that would be. So Beijing again appears not to have

900
00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:28,080
Speaker 1: taken off the table, but we haven't yet seen an

901
00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:31,080
Speaker 1: indication that they're going to move forward. And that's good news.

902
00:49:31,320 --> 00:49:33,440
Speaker 1: It would be better news if it was off the

903
00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:36,920
Speaker 1: table entirely because it would be such a mistake. But

904
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:40,759
Speaker 1: certainly we think it's very important for the war to end,

905
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:43,960
Speaker 1: which is what Chinese officials do say they want for

906
00:49:44,520 --> 00:49:50,400
Speaker 1: the costs of Russia's actions to be borne by Russian officials,

907
00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:54,400
Speaker 1: by the Russian government, because the way wars end is

908
00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:58,319
Speaker 1: when the costs outweigh the perceived benefits were going on.

909
00:49:58,440 --> 00:50:00,920
Speaker 1: So it would not be good for the cause of

910
00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:04,279
Speaker 1: peace if you know, China were to get involved on

911
00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:07,480
Speaker 1: the lethal side. It would be very inconsistent with the

912
00:50:07,480 --> 00:50:10,680
Speaker 1: peace plan that the PARC has just put forward. And

913
00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:14,440
Speaker 1: I think an important point is that in the long term,

914
00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:18,080
Speaker 1: the PARC is you know, wants to be a world leader,

915
00:50:18,440 --> 00:50:20,840
Speaker 1: you know, wants very much to increase its standing in

916
00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:24,400
Speaker 1: the global South. Those are the markets for Chinese goods,

917
00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:27,680
Speaker 1: you know, that have really helped fuel Chinese economic development,

918
00:50:27,719 --> 00:50:30,680
Speaker 1: which has been so explosive prior to the pandemic and

919
00:50:31,400 --> 00:50:35,160
Speaker 1: has lifted so many Chinese citizens out of poverty. I mean,

920
00:50:35,239 --> 00:50:38,680
Speaker 1: they are they are playing this longer game, you know,

921
00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:41,040
Speaker 1: with an eye through the Belt and Road initiative and

922
00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:44,560
Speaker 1: their building and their development assistance and their very substantial

923
00:50:44,640 --> 00:50:48,280
Speaker 1: loans which unfortunately carry very high interest rates in developing countries.

924
00:50:48,320 --> 00:50:52,120
Speaker 1: But nonetheless they are you know, doing all of this well. Again,

925
00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:54,560
Speaker 1: more than one hundred and forty countries within the UN

926
00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:58,359
Speaker 1: have condemned Russia. For Beijing to throw its lot in

927
00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:01,200
Speaker 1: with Russia in this or I think would be very

928
00:51:01,239 --> 00:51:05,560
Speaker 1: counterproductive in light of those larger ambitions. So I want

929
00:51:05,560 --> 00:51:09,000
Speaker 1: to ask you about the earthquake and air dewan in

930
00:51:09,080 --> 00:51:11,680
Speaker 1: Turkey time, thinking about there's been this rise in these

931
00:51:11,719 --> 00:51:17,640
Speaker 1: authoritarian states, and Turkey now has this earthquake. I mean,

932
00:51:17,680 --> 00:51:21,920
Speaker 1: first of all, it's just a syriing event in the

933
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:24,880
Speaker 1: lives of you know, easily well over a million a

934
00:51:24,920 --> 00:51:28,799
Speaker 1: million people in Syria, and I think if you take

935
00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:31,879
Speaker 1: Turkey and Syria together, it's more than ten million people

936
00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:35,200
Speaker 1: likely affected. About three million people have lost their homes

937
00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:38,920
Speaker 1: and are imagine again it's still winter. It's extremely difficult.

938
00:51:38,920 --> 00:51:41,360
Speaker 1: We saw the as we attempted to support the rescue

939
00:51:41,400 --> 00:51:44,799
Speaker 1: with our search and rescue teams, just the dead of

940
00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:48,520
Speaker 1: winter and the snow and the frigid conditions making that

941
00:51:48,600 --> 00:51:51,399
Speaker 1: even more challenging than it always is. You know, our

942
00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:55,799
Speaker 1: objective is to come in behind national authorities when they

943
00:51:55,800 --> 00:51:59,000
Speaker 1: have the capacity to respond, and certainly that was true

944
00:51:59,040 --> 00:52:04,359
Speaker 1: in Turkey. They're in a sensible protection FEMA equivalent did

945
00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:06,720
Speaker 1: a very good job that the scope and the scale

946
00:52:06,719 --> 00:52:09,440
Speaker 1: of what they were up against was woe, you know,

947
00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:12,160
Speaker 1: just not something that any any agency couldn't prepare for.

948
00:52:12,239 --> 00:52:15,880
Speaker 1: I think Syria syrias worse off, right, It's just so

949
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:19,160
Speaker 1: much more challenging because you have the regime, of course,

950
00:52:19,200 --> 00:52:22,279
Speaker 1: which had gassed its people and inflicted on its people

951
00:52:22,320 --> 00:52:27,239
Speaker 1: the equivalent of daily earthquakes by pulverizing civilian centers and

952
00:52:27,640 --> 00:52:32,480
Speaker 1: apartment buildings and medical facilities throughout that war continuously for

953
00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:35,880
Speaker 1: years and years and years, yeah, continuously, and so creating

954
00:52:35,920 --> 00:52:38,000
Speaker 1: scenes just like that. But you know, if there had

955
00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:40,279
Speaker 1: been a respite in a community and somebody might have

956
00:52:40,280 --> 00:52:42,840
Speaker 1: been displaced two, three, four times from different places that

957
00:52:42,880 --> 00:52:46,359
Speaker 1: ASSAD had terrorized, maybe they finally had an apartment and

958
00:52:46,400 --> 00:52:49,040
Speaker 1: then if they were in it live or Aleppo, maybe

959
00:52:49,040 --> 00:52:51,640
Speaker 1: that apartment in all likelihood, you know, has either been

960
00:52:51,680 --> 00:52:54,560
Speaker 1: damaged or destroyed in this earthquake. So it's just compounding

961
00:52:54,600 --> 00:52:58,520
Speaker 1: crisis after compounding crisis. We don't work of course with

962
00:52:58,719 --> 00:53:02,400
Speaker 1: the Syrian government there slated, they're sanctioned. We are continue

963
00:53:02,440 --> 00:53:05,640
Speaker 1: to hold them accountable for the atrocities in these ways.

964
00:53:06,200 --> 00:53:11,080
Speaker 1: The epicenter of harm occurred actually in opposition controlled areas

965
00:53:11,080 --> 00:53:13,600
Speaker 1: because there are still parts of Syria that are controlled

966
00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:17,800
Speaker 1: by opposition elements. The challenge there is extremist groups, of course,

967
00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:21,279
Speaker 1: have been present in many of those areas, and there

968
00:53:21,320 --> 00:53:24,080
Speaker 1: are a lot of restrictions or safeguards that we have

969
00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:26,719
Speaker 1: to have in place so that our resources are not

970
00:53:26,800 --> 00:53:29,760
Speaker 1: going to an ISIS affiliate or to an Alkada affiliate.

971
00:53:29,960 --> 00:53:32,920
Speaker 1: It's hard to find quote unquote good god, Well, no,

972
00:53:33,040 --> 00:53:36,560
Speaker 1: there there are plenty haoker guys. To be clear, there

973
00:53:36,560 --> 00:53:39,920
Speaker 1: are plenty of like the White Helmets famously are They're

974
00:53:40,239 --> 00:53:43,240
Speaker 1: digging people out of the rubble with the most rudimentary

975
00:53:43,680 --> 00:53:46,560
Speaker 1: support from much of the outside world. But you just

976
00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:49,320
Speaker 1: always know that these extremists lurk and can take advantage

977
00:53:49,320 --> 00:53:51,320
Speaker 1: of these circumstances, so you just have to be careful.

978
00:53:51,360 --> 00:53:54,400
Speaker 1: So I think all of that to say, the response

979
00:53:54,960 --> 00:53:58,480
Speaker 1: was much much slower the international response. There wasn't that

980
00:53:58,560 --> 00:54:01,680
Speaker 1: same national infrastruct sure because as SAD again is not

981
00:54:01,800 --> 00:54:05,840
Speaker 1: present in the worst affected areas, that scale up is happening.

982
00:54:06,120 --> 00:54:08,239
Speaker 1: The United States have announced one hundred and eighty five

983
00:54:08,360 --> 00:54:11,440
Speaker 1: million dollars worth of assistance so far. Most of our

984
00:54:11,480 --> 00:54:14,359
Speaker 1: assistance that flows from this point is likely to go

985
00:54:14,440 --> 00:54:18,000
Speaker 1: to Syria to try to compensate again for the much

986
00:54:18,040 --> 00:54:21,440
Speaker 1: more rudimentary infrastructure there. But it is going to be

987
00:54:21,520 --> 00:54:25,120
Speaker 1: a dark and long road to recovery, just again because

988
00:54:25,120 --> 00:54:27,520
Speaker 1: of the pre existing conditions in the communities that have

989
00:54:27,520 --> 00:54:30,600
Speaker 1: been afflicted. Yeah, oh no, I'm sure. Do you think

990
00:54:30,640 --> 00:54:34,120
Speaker 1: that sort of Turkey might have a moment of being

991
00:54:34,160 --> 00:54:37,960
Speaker 1: able to sort of dislodge airdan Well, I mean, they

992
00:54:37,960 --> 00:54:41,560
Speaker 1: have their democratic elections are coming up here, and I

993
00:54:41,600 --> 00:54:45,440
Speaker 1: think it's unclear how the earthquake is going to affect

994
00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:48,160
Speaker 1: either the conditions. I mean a lot of people are

995
00:54:48,160 --> 00:54:50,200
Speaker 1: worried about where they're going to sleep the next night,

996
00:54:50,239 --> 00:54:53,520
Speaker 1: and so whether they're also thinking about voting or not,

997
00:54:53,600 --> 00:54:55,520
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know. I'm not close enough to it.

998
00:54:55,640 --> 00:54:59,680
Speaker 1: But also in general, when emergencies hit, it's very unpredictable

999
00:55:00,040 --> 00:55:02,000
Speaker 1: kind of what the effect of an emergency, or the

1000
00:55:02,120 --> 00:55:06,000
Speaker 1: response to the emergency, or questions about decisions made prior

1001
00:55:06,040 --> 00:55:08,360
Speaker 1: to the emergency. He all of that comes together to

1002
00:55:08,440 --> 00:55:12,080
Speaker 1: inform voter opinion. So again I wouldn't comment on that,

1003
00:55:12,320 --> 00:55:15,160
Speaker 1: But the UN has issued a four hundred million dollars

1004
00:55:15,160 --> 00:55:17,759
Speaker 1: appeal for Syria, but you know that's just several months

1005
00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:21,920
Speaker 1: worth of resources. Would we need to needed to just

1006
00:55:21,960 --> 00:55:25,640
Speaker 1: even provide temporary shelter. The Turkish appeal is a billion

1007
00:55:25,680 --> 00:55:29,840
Speaker 1: dollars and not to have every aspect of our conversation

1008
00:55:29,920 --> 00:55:33,640
Speaker 1: be depressing and dark, but it is. This earthquake just

1009
00:55:33,800 --> 00:55:36,680
Speaker 1: lands at a time when you have almost a billion people,

1010
00:55:37,080 --> 00:55:40,960
Speaker 1: you know, facing very severe food insecurity, and where the

1011
00:55:41,040 --> 00:55:43,920
Speaker 1: knock on effects of Putin's invasion of Ukraine because Ukraine

1012
00:55:43,920 --> 00:55:45,920
Speaker 1: was the bread basket of the world. Forty percent of

1013
00:55:45,920 --> 00:55:49,040
Speaker 1: the World Food Program's food comes from Ukraine, Jesus, and

1014
00:55:49,120 --> 00:55:52,080
Speaker 1: so you know, for Putin to invade, take out so

1015
00:55:52,120 --> 00:55:55,440
Speaker 1: many of the major ports, you know, block or you

1016
00:55:55,600 --> 00:55:59,360
Speaker 1: reduced to a trickle the export of grain from the

1017
00:55:59,360 --> 00:56:02,600
Speaker 1: world's bread basket. Put On exploded ordinances and land mines

1018
00:56:02,680 --> 00:56:05,759
Speaker 1: all over land, even that his forces were vacating. I mean,

1019
00:56:05,800 --> 00:56:12,000
Speaker 1: it's it is just such a horrible gratuitous compounding factor.

1020
00:56:12,320 --> 00:56:14,840
Speaker 1: And it was bad enough, you know, before the earthquake,

1021
00:56:14,880 --> 00:56:17,960
Speaker 1: and then the earthquake hit, and suddenly there's more than

1022
00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:20,440
Speaker 1: ten million people who are in need of some form

1023
00:56:20,480 --> 00:56:24,120
Speaker 1: of assistance between Turkey and Syria. So so it's a

1024
00:56:24,239 --> 00:56:28,239
Speaker 1: very difficult time. You ever more scarce resources and ever

1025
00:56:28,320 --> 00:56:31,040
Speaker 1: more demands on those resources. So if your listeners are

1026
00:56:31,040 --> 00:56:33,680
Speaker 1: inclined to want to help with any of these emergencies,

1027
00:56:34,000 --> 00:56:36,239
Speaker 1: we have at USAID on our website just a list

1028
00:56:36,239 --> 00:56:39,600
Speaker 1: of organizations that are vetted and our great partners of ours.

1029
00:56:40,080 --> 00:56:44,279
Speaker 1: So it's CIDI dot org, Cidi dot org, and whether

1030
00:56:44,320 --> 00:56:46,520
Speaker 1: the earthquake or the war in Ukraine, there are lots

1031
00:56:46,520 --> 00:56:50,160
Speaker 1: of ways to contribute. Thank you, Samantha Power, thank you

1032
00:56:50,239 --> 00:57:00,000
Speaker 1: Molly Jess Canon. You know, one of my least favorite

1033
00:57:00,040 --> 00:57:04,080
Speaker 1: things is that these Daily Wire nerds. They represent nobody,

1034
00:57:04,200 --> 00:57:07,040
Speaker 1: No one believes things they believe, but they get a huge,

1035
00:57:07,120 --> 00:57:10,879
Speaker 1: huge platform through these bots. They do really well on Facebook.

1036
00:57:11,080 --> 00:57:13,160
Speaker 1: They do really well on Facebook because they buy a

1037
00:57:13,160 --> 00:57:15,000
Speaker 1: lot of Facebook adds that they've had a lot of audience.

1038
00:57:15,040 --> 00:57:18,440
Speaker 1: They botted their podcasts, as we've seen people prove, and

1039
00:57:18,560 --> 00:57:21,040
Speaker 1: now they get to talk at seapack at what happens.

1040
00:57:21,320 --> 00:57:24,760
Speaker 1: Why don't we bought art? No, I'm just kidding, that's

1041
00:57:24,800 --> 00:57:28,760
Speaker 1: a great idea. Yes, let's bot our podcast. Michael Knowles,

1042
00:57:28,760 --> 00:57:31,720
Speaker 1: host of The Michael Knowles Show. Again, who the fuck

1043
00:57:31,880 --> 00:57:35,080
Speaker 1: is that of the Daily Wire? So, like think of

1044
00:57:35,160 --> 00:57:38,919
Speaker 1: Ben Shapiro, but lesser, a lesser Ben Shapiro, if that's

1045
00:57:38,920 --> 00:57:42,840
Speaker 1: even possible, gave a speech at Seapack which at moments

1046
00:57:42,840 --> 00:57:46,680
Speaker 1: sounded as he might say genocide all And here's the

1047
00:57:46,800 --> 00:57:50,160
Speaker 1: direct quote. The problem with transgenderism is not that it's

1048
00:57:50,280 --> 00:57:53,959
Speaker 1: inappropriate for children under the age of nine. He said,

1049
00:57:53,960 --> 00:57:56,480
Speaker 1: the problem is that it isn't true. And then he

1050
00:57:56,560 --> 00:58:04,160
Speaker 1: went on to sort of imply that transgender people should

1051
00:58:04,160 --> 00:58:06,520
Speaker 1: not exist. You got a lot of publicity off of

1052
00:58:06,560 --> 00:58:09,800
Speaker 1: that line and people saying that he was saying that

1053
00:58:09,920 --> 00:58:13,160
Speaker 1: transgender people shouldn't exist, and he got furious because he

1054
00:58:13,240 --> 00:58:16,360
Speaker 1: said he wasn't saying that, and decided he would sue

1055
00:58:16,360 --> 00:58:18,960
Speaker 1: all these outlets. But of course he was saying that.

1056
00:58:19,080 --> 00:58:22,960
Speaker 1: And again, this dance is the way in which people

1057
00:58:23,000 --> 00:58:26,320
Speaker 1: on the far right try to use the media to

1058
00:58:26,480 --> 00:58:30,400
Speaker 1: gin up engagement and raise money. And for that he

1059
00:58:30,440 --> 00:58:36,000
Speaker 1: gets a hearty moment of fuckery. Michael Knowles, the lesser

1060
00:58:36,080 --> 00:58:41,000
Speaker 1: Ben Shapiro, who is the lesser Tucker Carlson. That's it

1061
00:58:41,160 --> 00:58:44,720
Speaker 1: for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday,

1062
00:58:44,760 --> 00:58:47,840
Speaker 1: Wednesday and Friday to hear the best minds in politics

1063
00:58:47,880 --> 00:58:50,920
Speaker 1: makes sense of all this chaos. If you enjoyed what

1064
00:58:50,960 --> 00:58:53,640
Speaker 1: you've heard, please send it to a friend and keep

1065
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Speaker 1: the conversation going. And again thanks for listening.