WEBVTT - Babyface 0:00:15.476 --> 0:00:23.396 Pushkin, Kenny, Babyface, Edmunds is a pillar of R and B. 0:00:24.436 --> 0:00:27.916 His discography is vast and varied, and in my opinion, 0:00:28.036 --> 0:00:31.076 he's one of the greatest songwriters of all time. And 0:00:31.236 --> 0:00:33.796 as a producer, he knows how to get the most 0:00:33.956 --> 0:00:39.156 natural vocal performances from the best singers. I'm talking powerhouse 0:00:39.236 --> 0:00:44.796 vocalists like Aretha Franklin, Whitney Houston, Beyonce, Ariana Grande, and 0:00:44.836 --> 0:00:48.516 Stevie Wonder. As a label owner, Babyface created the Face 0:00:48.596 --> 0:00:52.676 Records in the late eighties with famed record exec La Reid. Together, 0:00:52.716 --> 0:00:55.756 they went on to release classic albums from Outcast, TLC 0:00:55.956 --> 0:01:00.036 and Usher, among others. Although Babyface's career is most often 0:01:00.076 --> 0:01:02.716 associated with pop and R and B hits, he started 0:01:02.716 --> 0:01:06.956 writing songs in the singer songwriter tradition, pulling from influences 0:01:06.996 --> 0:01:11.036 as surprising as James Taylor in The Beatles. He taught 0:01:11.116 --> 0:01:14.516 himself guitar in sixth grade and started writing songs about 0:01:14.596 --> 0:01:18.916 young love and heartbreak. Many of those experiences served as 0:01:18.956 --> 0:01:23.716 inspiration for the hundreds of songs he's written since. On 0:01:23.756 --> 0:01:27.676 today's episode, I talked to Babyface about those early childhood memories, 0:01:27.756 --> 0:01:29.916 and he plays a song he wrote in high school 0:01:29.996 --> 0:01:32.956 that he considers to be the best song he's ever written, 0:01:33.236 --> 0:01:36.836 and it's never been released. He also talks about how 0:01:36.876 --> 0:01:40.676 Bootsy Collins christened him Babyface and how his nickname made 0:01:40.716 --> 0:01:43.716 female fans flock to him at the end of shows. 0:01:44.636 --> 0:01:46.956 He also reveals how he was on the verge of 0:01:46.996 --> 0:01:49.676 making a new album with Whitney Houston just a month 0:01:49.796 --> 0:01:56.236 before she died. This is broken record liner notes for 0:01:56.316 --> 0:02:00.276 the Digital Age. I'm justin Mitchman. Here's my conversation with 0:02:00.316 --> 0:02:04.516 the Babyface from the Village Studios in La. How long 0:02:04.556 --> 0:02:05.396 you've been playing guitar? 0:02:05.796 --> 0:02:09.556 I started playing when I was in sixth grade, picked 0:02:09.556 --> 0:02:13.556 it up. It was my most my brother's guitar, but 0:02:13.596 --> 0:02:15.956 it was he had a little a band that he 0:02:16.036 --> 0:02:18.956 was saying, and so the guitar player let him music 0:02:18.956 --> 0:02:21.916 acoustic guitar. Brought it to the house and told us 0:02:21.916 --> 0:02:22.516 not to touch it. 0:02:23.676 --> 0:02:27.276 Out of that gos, I touched it. Anytime you tell 0:02:27.396 --> 0:02:28.716 someone don't touch So it's a long time to do 0:02:28.796 --> 0:02:30.876 with my kids. Don't touch the panel, don't touch the guitar. 0:02:31.196 --> 0:02:33.756 Yeah, don't ever, that's a good idea. 0:02:34.676 --> 0:02:38.676 How impactful you your older brothers on your music sensibility. 0:02:40.396 --> 0:02:43.636 One brother in particular, Melvin, He was impactful in the 0:02:43.676 --> 0:02:47.196 sense that he brought in that guitar. He also was 0:02:47.236 --> 0:02:51.676 in a band Caught the Soul Innovations, and he was 0:02:51.716 --> 0:02:54.676 like the front man, and it was it was just 0:02:54.716 --> 0:02:57.156 incredible to watching him. He had a great voice, and 0:02:57.196 --> 0:03:03.316 I think that's that clearly made me think that maybe 0:03:03.356 --> 0:03:05.676 I could do something like that. You know, yeah, I 0:03:05.756 --> 0:03:06.476 wasn't sure though. 0:03:06.796 --> 0:03:08.196 What was it like seeing him perform? 0:03:09.196 --> 0:03:10.836 It was great because he was a great performer and 0:03:10.956 --> 0:03:13.356 he was like he could sing, but also and at 0:03:13.356 --> 0:03:19.156 the time, this is like sixty nine seventy, this is 0:03:19.156 --> 0:03:23.436 like when James Brown is hot and the Temptations that everybody, 0:03:23.476 --> 0:03:25.396 so you had to sing as well as you had 0:03:25.396 --> 0:03:28.596 to also be able to scream and dance like James Brown. 0:03:28.636 --> 0:03:29.916 So he used to do all of that. 0:03:30.556 --> 0:03:33.476 And it was pretty incredible to watch to see that, 0:03:33.556 --> 0:03:37.316 and ultimately he ended up joining group after seven. And 0:03:37.556 --> 0:03:41.236 it's funny when I think of who he wasn't after 0:03:41.276 --> 0:03:43.196 seven the post to who he was as a kid, 0:03:43.236 --> 0:03:47.236 because he had so much more energy and just dancing 0:03:47.276 --> 0:03:50.076 and everything as a kid. So it's interesting. 0:03:49.996 --> 0:03:52.156 What do you think the evolution was for him from 0:03:52.756 --> 0:03:55.076 fiery James Brown kind of it's interesting. 0:03:55.396 --> 0:03:56.956 I think he did it really well. 0:03:56.956 --> 0:03:59.716 But then there was some other people in the neighborhood, 0:03:59.716 --> 0:04:03.916 this guy named Alvin Omanson who is really good at 0:04:03.996 --> 0:04:07.556 James Brown. So they used to kind of spar off 0:04:07.556 --> 0:04:10.076 at each other, and I beat him one day, so 0:04:10.316 --> 0:04:13.756 I think he decided I'm just gonna singh So doing 0:04:13.756 --> 0:04:15.036 them splits that wasn't easy. 0:04:15.356 --> 0:04:17.836 Yeah, was it a competitive thing with you guys? Like 0:04:17.876 --> 0:04:19.956 when you saw was it was it like I want 0:04:19.996 --> 0:04:22.316 to I want to do that, but better? 0:04:22.916 --> 0:04:25.396 It was never competitive to me. I always thought that 0:04:25.436 --> 0:04:27.516 he had the better voice. I always thought my brother 0:04:27.596 --> 0:04:30.476 Kevan had the better voice. I was always just kind 0:04:30.476 --> 0:04:34.196 of like songwriter and and just you know whatever, if 0:04:34.276 --> 0:04:36.516 I can make my song sound good, And I was 0:04:36.556 --> 0:04:40.676 always easy, comfortable to be in the back, so it 0:04:40.716 --> 0:04:44.156 was I didn't have to take the lead. So in 0:04:44.196 --> 0:04:45.716 that sense, I never competed. 0:04:46.396 --> 0:04:48.476 What was one of the earliest songs you you loved? 0:04:48.996 --> 0:04:53.076 I think one of my first memories, uh, I remember 0:04:53.116 --> 0:04:55.316 in sixth grade there was I mean, obviously I love 0:04:55.396 --> 0:04:57.956 the Jackson five when they came out, but I also 0:04:58.116 --> 0:05:02.356 was loved Smoking Robinson the Miracles, and as a matter 0:05:02.356 --> 0:05:05.196 of fact, one of the first songs I sang in 0:05:05.196 --> 0:05:09.036 front of a class, I sing two songs, this song 0:05:09.316 --> 0:05:13.556 I'm a Girl Watcher and Smoking Robinson is here I 0:05:13.596 --> 0:05:17.956 Go Again. And me and like three other guys, we 0:05:18.276 --> 0:05:20.116 created a little singing group and sing in front of 0:05:20.156 --> 0:05:23.596 our class in sixth grade. And that was also the 0:05:23.596 --> 0:05:25.796 same year that I between sixth and seventh grade, when 0:05:25.796 --> 0:05:28.716 I sang for my brother's band. 0:05:30.196 --> 0:05:32.236 They had an event at. 0:05:33.596 --> 0:05:36.956 My high school, one of those mixers, and they needed 0:05:36.956 --> 0:05:39.476 somebody to sing of Michael Jackson songs. So my brother 0:05:40.196 --> 0:05:42.836 auditioned myself and my brother. 0:05:42.716 --> 0:05:45.356 Kevin, and I won. I don't know how I won. 0:05:45.596 --> 0:05:47.396 I won, And then you. 0:05:47.356 --> 0:05:50.276 Know, I sang Who's Loving You in front of this crowd. 0:05:50.276 --> 0:05:54.516 And that's and the thing that's what's always funny. I 0:05:54.516 --> 0:05:58.196 can remember for the longest time when I would hear 0:05:58.596 --> 0:06:00.996 I Want You Back, because that's the music that they 0:06:01.036 --> 0:06:05.076 would play as I walked on the stage, and I 0:06:05.196 --> 0:06:09.156 get so nervous just the thought of hearing that and 0:06:09.196 --> 0:06:11.476 to walk up on that stage, I just be I 0:06:11.516 --> 0:06:15.876 turned to mess, my heart beat beating hard, and every 0:06:15.916 --> 0:06:18.196 now and then when I hear it done good to 0:06:18.276 --> 0:06:20.756 do it could still get me just a little bit 0:06:21.236 --> 0:06:21.956 to this day. 0:06:22.716 --> 0:06:25.316 Really, Yeah, that's one of the most joyous songs of 0:06:25.356 --> 0:06:25.796 all time. 0:06:26.756 --> 0:06:27.836 Oh showtime. 0:06:29.836 --> 0:06:31.636 Do you think do you think you've ever gotten over 0:06:31.676 --> 0:06:34.636 that sort of I don't know if it's stage fright or. 0:06:34.876 --> 0:06:35.516 I think not. 0:06:35.836 --> 0:06:39.156 I think it's an interesting thing, those stage fright and 0:06:40.196 --> 0:06:44.716 those triggers, those things that make you that you can't control. 0:06:45.356 --> 0:06:48.756 And I think ultimately I thought I learned how to 0:06:48.796 --> 0:06:52.276 control it. And then a few years ago I did 0:06:52.436 --> 0:06:56.356 Dancing with the Stars, and I found myself right back 0:06:56.396 --> 0:06:58.956 in that same place where I couldn't get rid of 0:06:58.996 --> 0:06:59.476 the nerves. 0:06:59.676 --> 0:07:00.516 Yeah, you know. 0:07:01.196 --> 0:07:05.076 And then for the longest time, to this day, there's 0:07:05.116 --> 0:07:08.396 a song that we did. I did a remix of 0:07:08.556 --> 0:07:12.556 the X Fi House theme, and so now when I 0:07:12.596 --> 0:07:14.796 hear X Files, I get a little. 0:07:16.116 --> 0:07:19.556 That song has been kicking my ass for years anyway, terrifying. 0:07:19.996 --> 0:07:23.756 So it's funny. It's funny how how these triggers can 0:07:23.796 --> 0:07:25.916 work for you. Yeah, music triggers. 0:07:25.996 --> 0:07:30.796 Yeah, Smoking Robinson, that's a great in terms of a songwriter. 0:07:31.076 --> 0:07:31.836 I think we. 0:07:31.956 --> 0:07:35.916 Forget how Smokey was amazing and just and he just 0:07:35.956 --> 0:07:37.836 did it so natural that I think that's about how 0:07:37.876 --> 0:07:41.956 we forget because it was like a conversation for him. Yeah, 0:07:42.116 --> 0:07:47.476 you know, and so he clearly was a huge inspiration. 0:07:47.036 --> 0:07:47.436 In that way. 0:07:47.556 --> 0:07:51.196 Yeah. Yeah, because you were playing guitar, did you gravitate 0:07:51.236 --> 0:07:54.436 more towards that music, like a Bill Withers or anything. 0:07:54.076 --> 0:07:56.196 Like that, or I liked Bill Withers, but when I 0:07:56.236 --> 0:07:59.276 was playing. When I started playing, Bill Withers wasn't around, 0:08:00.316 --> 0:08:03.556 and I didn't learn how to play the guitar to 0:08:05.316 --> 0:08:07.796 learn what other guitar players were doing. My brother he 0:08:08.036 --> 0:08:26.876 come on, he came home and played these chords. So 0:08:26.956 --> 0:08:29.156 he started that it wasn't that part, and I added 0:08:29.156 --> 0:08:32.716 that later, but it was first, and I was like, 0:08:32.756 --> 0:08:36.836 looked at it. I was like, that's crazy. And then 0:08:37.956 --> 0:08:40.156 I would go and when he'd leave, I'd go in 0:08:40.796 --> 0:08:42.836 another room and pick up the guitar and try to 0:08:42.876 --> 0:08:45.556 do it. The other thing is he was right handed, 0:08:46.636 --> 0:08:49.156 so it was a right handed guitar. So that's why 0:08:49.596 --> 0:08:52.196 to this day I played upside down. 0:08:52.476 --> 0:08:52.676 Yeah. 0:08:53.596 --> 0:08:56.316 And so at one point he came to me and said, 0:08:56.396 --> 0:08:59.076 when he finally he catched me playing it, he walked 0:08:59.076 --> 0:09:01.236 in and he goes, I don't care what you do, 0:09:01.316 --> 0:09:03.636 you will never be able to play that as good 0:09:03.676 --> 0:09:07.996 as me, And that made that pushed me to work 0:09:07.996 --> 0:09:12.116 harder at doing it, and unfortunately was not here anymore. 0:09:12.156 --> 0:09:14.356 But I wanted to ask him because I always thought 0:09:14.356 --> 0:09:16.796 that was mean for him to say. But at the 0:09:16.836 --> 0:09:19.836 same time, it just occurred to me just here recently. 0:09:19.916 --> 0:09:22.276 Maybe he was saying that because I was left handed 0:09:23.036 --> 0:09:25.636 right and I would never be able to finger it 0:09:25.756 --> 0:09:28.116 the way that he could finger it, so I won't 0:09:28.156 --> 0:09:29.196 get it quite the same. 0:09:30.236 --> 0:09:31.076 And now it's a mystery. 0:09:32.036 --> 0:09:36.156 It's wild that you play so like left handed as beautifully. 0:09:36.316 --> 0:09:38.156 I just I don't know how you do it. 0:09:38.276 --> 0:09:40.996 Well, I think it's it's however you pick up anything. 0:09:41.276 --> 0:09:44.956 If you don't know the rules, then the rules don't count. 0:09:45.516 --> 0:09:46.156 Absolutely. 0:09:47.196 --> 0:09:50.396 There are certain things just that it might be easier 0:09:50.396 --> 0:09:52.116 for me to do with there's certain things that are 0:09:52.476 --> 0:09:54.236 harder for me to do when it's the right handed. 0:09:54.916 --> 0:09:57.236 So you just got to figure out your way around it. 0:09:57.276 --> 0:10:01.036 But I think once I realized you played upside down, 0:10:01.236 --> 0:10:03.556 and when I listened to your music, your songs sound 0:10:03.596 --> 0:10:06.036 in a way so different that sometimes I feel like, oh, 0:10:06.396 --> 0:10:08.796 it makes sense that it's upside down, like it's the 0:10:09.196 --> 0:10:10.676 or is there less rooted in the bass, And you 0:10:10.716 --> 0:10:13.156 know it's just just interesting. I hear looseness, you know. 0:10:13.556 --> 0:10:15.996 Yeah, I mean there's probably something to that. I think. 0:10:16.556 --> 0:10:18.276 I always like to say, even when I played and 0:10:18.836 --> 0:10:20.876 learn things on the piano I play, I'm not really 0:10:20.876 --> 0:10:26.716 a piano player. I learned things to support my songwriting, 0:10:26.956 --> 0:10:30.756 and that's what I did. Then I turned that into 0:10:30.876 --> 0:10:33.636 my first song. You know, the song you just played, 0:10:33.756 --> 0:10:35.916 song I just played. That was like I ended up. 0:10:36.876 --> 0:10:39.356 I didn't write Here I Go again, I go here 0:10:39.396 --> 0:10:42.396 I go falling in love again. That was my first song, 0:10:42.796 --> 0:10:45.516 and I wrote it for a girl because I was 0:10:45.556 --> 0:10:46.556 like in love and stuff, and. 0:10:48.076 --> 0:10:50.996 So the guitar really was just an instrument. 0:10:50.596 --> 0:10:54.556 For me to get these songs out of me. And 0:10:54.636 --> 0:10:57.196 so I wasn't really trying to learn any songs that 0:10:57.236 --> 0:11:00.316 were on the radio, and it was all just songwriting. 0:11:00.356 --> 0:11:03.276 So I was just learning chords to support all my 0:11:03.316 --> 0:11:03.956 little songs. 0:11:04.116 --> 0:11:07.956 Wow, And for you, songwriting was about writing songs for 0:11:08.916 --> 0:11:11.996 the girls you were in love with, crushes. 0:11:11.596 --> 0:11:14.876 On crushes, and it was it was purely kind of 0:11:14.916 --> 0:11:18.436 an escape. So to say, wow, it wasn't anything but that. 0:11:18.476 --> 0:11:20.756 I didn't think they were going to go anywhere. But 0:11:20.796 --> 0:11:23.516 that was the that was the drive, and you would. 0:11:23.316 --> 0:11:26.836 Have been like eleven twelve, ten, eleven twelve, yeah, yeah, yeah. 0:11:26.876 --> 0:11:29.756 So started in sixth grade, start picked up, picked it up. 0:11:29.796 --> 0:11:32.196 Then then by the time eighth grade came, I was 0:11:32.236 --> 0:11:35.676 kind of folks swinging and had a number of little 0:11:35.716 --> 0:11:39.476 bands I was part of, and a lot happened in 0:11:39.516 --> 0:11:42.196 a short amount of time I was. When I look 0:11:42.236 --> 0:11:43.876 back at it, it's kind of crazy to think of 0:11:45.716 --> 0:11:50.236 how much we did as a little band, because obviously 0:11:50.836 --> 0:11:55.036 you will not find today thirteen and fourteen year olds 0:11:55.356 --> 0:11:58.196 having a band, yeah and trying to play music that way, 0:11:58.236 --> 0:12:03.756 and yeah, not even in in rock. You know, it's 0:12:03.796 --> 0:12:06.156 hard to find that period. And back in the day 0:12:06.196 --> 0:12:08.396 for us, that was we were all trying to be 0:12:08.476 --> 0:12:08.916 in a band. 0:12:09.316 --> 0:12:12.956 Yeah. You know, how did you get to Manchild, which 0:12:13.116 --> 0:12:15.236 was your first group you put a record out with? 0:12:15.596 --> 0:12:20.996 Yeah, And in high school, starting as a sophomore, I 0:12:21.156 --> 0:12:24.996 joined this well created this band that we called Tarny Silver, 0:12:26.356 --> 0:12:30.556 and we played from my sophomore year to my senior year. 0:12:30.876 --> 0:12:31.836 We played everything. 0:12:32.316 --> 0:12:35.116 We were like the go to band for the mixers, 0:12:35.236 --> 0:12:38.196 the proms and everything, and. 0:12:37.916 --> 0:12:39.436 In fact, we had did it so much. 0:12:39.716 --> 0:12:42.596 One year, I think it was my last year as 0:12:42.636 --> 0:12:47.196 a senior, there was another guy that was challenging us. 0:12:47.236 --> 0:12:50.076 Decided to challenge us because he said he wanted to 0:12:50.116 --> 0:12:54.116 play at the mixer that year the homecoming, and I said, 0:12:54.116 --> 0:12:56.036 I'm fine, we don't, but people were saying, well, no, 0:12:56.156 --> 0:12:57.596 we think we want tarns Silver to play. 0:12:58.276 --> 0:13:02.796 So I think their band was called Destiny, and so we. 0:13:02.756 --> 0:13:07.396 Actually had a school vote about what band will played 0:13:07.476 --> 0:13:09.556 for the homecoming and we won. 0:13:10.356 --> 0:13:14.636 It was quite disappointing to him, but dave Man. 0:13:14.556 --> 0:13:15.036 Was his name. 0:13:15.516 --> 0:13:16.356 But we played. 0:13:16.556 --> 0:13:19.676 We played all those things, and that was playing these 0:13:19.716 --> 0:13:24.556 colleges on the weekends. We played for you know, IU 0:13:24.756 --> 0:13:27.156 and Purdue and ball State. 0:13:27.516 --> 0:13:30.756 So we were like semi popular. 0:13:32.036 --> 0:13:36.196 So my senior year, the drummer that we had a 0:13:36.236 --> 0:13:40.236 guy named Rayferd Griffin, who's actually was a really good drummer. 0:13:40.276 --> 0:13:42.396 He went on to play with Jean Lupatti and George 0:13:42.476 --> 0:13:45.476 Duke and Stanley Clark, so he was an incredible player. 0:13:45.476 --> 0:13:47.316 He was an incredible player. He was like way too 0:13:47.316 --> 0:13:49.076 good for us. So he was in our band and 0:13:49.116 --> 0:13:51.396 he was getting ready to go away to college, and 0:13:51.436 --> 0:13:53.716 then our saxophone player he was getting ready to go 0:13:53.756 --> 0:13:56.316 away to college. So the band was gonna break up. 0:13:57.476 --> 0:14:00.836 And it was my senior year, and all of a 0:14:00.836 --> 0:14:03.356 sudden I woke up. I realized and my other friends 0:14:03.356 --> 0:14:05.916 they were all getting ready to go to college as well, 0:14:05.956 --> 0:14:07.396 and I hadn't prepared. 0:14:07.516 --> 0:14:09.716 I was just like being in a band. I didn't 0:14:09.716 --> 0:14:10.556 know what I was going to do. 0:14:11.356 --> 0:14:15.396 And we had this one last show that we did 0:14:15.716 --> 0:14:20.356 at a friend's house and one of the guys, Rayfert Griffin, 0:14:20.556 --> 0:14:25.516 his brother, Reggie Griffin, was a man Child and he 0:14:25.676 --> 0:14:31.716 was an excellent musician, Like he played sacks, he played keyboards, cleaverne, 0:14:31.876 --> 0:14:36.996 and he played a guitar, excellent player. And he came 0:14:37.036 --> 0:14:39.356 and saw our show and he asked me that night 0:14:40.236 --> 0:14:44.836 if I would consider joining Manchild, And so he saved 0:14:44.876 --> 0:14:47.196 my life at that point because I had no plans, 0:14:47.636 --> 0:14:51.596 no band, and no band, and I did not know 0:14:51.716 --> 0:14:54.716 that they were on track to getting a record deal. 0:14:55.076 --> 0:14:58.716 So I really at high school. The year I graduated, 0:14:58.796 --> 0:15:03.316 I joined the band and had a record deal. That's wild, 0:15:03.636 --> 0:15:07.076 and so I got really lucky, you know, And then. 0:15:06.916 --> 0:15:08.516 I want to play I want to play one of 0:15:08.516 --> 0:15:11.236 the songs off the first record that that you wrote 0:15:11.276 --> 0:15:24.716 and sang funky situation you guys were going. 0:15:24.836 --> 0:15:27.436 Man, So, I actually wrote this when I was in 0:15:27.516 --> 0:15:32.716 Turn Silver and uh So I wrote that in high 0:15:32.716 --> 0:15:35.316 school because it was part of it was one of 0:15:35.356 --> 0:15:37.876 our one of the songs that we would actually play, 0:15:38.356 --> 0:15:40.996 you know, when we when we do these gigs. So 0:15:41.036 --> 0:15:44.956 we were obviously inspired. We were heavily inspired by like 0:15:45.036 --> 0:15:48.956 earth Wind and Fire. Then we were also inspired by 0:15:48.996 --> 0:15:54.436 the chick Corea and and Stanley Forever Turned Forever, and 0:15:54.476 --> 0:15:56.676 so we we were like, so we tried to be 0:15:56.836 --> 0:15:58.516 jazzy too, So that's what because it goes to a 0:15:58.516 --> 0:16:02.756 little jazzy and then inspired by Stevie Wonder too and 0:16:02.876 --> 0:16:05.076 all that. So all that was kind of ended up 0:16:05.116 --> 0:16:08.556 being mixed, not done very well, but still the ideas 0:16:08.876 --> 0:16:13.876 was was there, but it was part of being a 0:16:13.916 --> 0:16:17.956 little confused, not really knowing how to put it all together, 0:16:18.076 --> 0:16:20.396 not knowing how to make a hit, not knowing how 0:16:20.436 --> 0:16:23.396 to make something commercial, but just trying to make that 0:16:23.436 --> 0:16:26.036 we thought it was commercial. But that was one of 0:16:26.036 --> 0:16:28.916 the first songs that you know that man Child took 0:16:28.956 --> 0:16:31.436 from me that it's funny to hear it right now, 0:16:31.716 --> 0:16:35.076 and I can. I definitely wrote that on acoustic guitar, 0:16:36.396 --> 0:16:39.636 and I was trying to be like I was trying 0:16:39.636 --> 0:16:42.876 to be funky, you know, funky situation. But we were 0:16:42.956 --> 0:16:46.876 so influenced by earthwinder Fire, so influenced that I went 0:16:46.916 --> 0:16:50.116 to see earth Fire with the silvers and stylistics, and 0:16:50.156 --> 0:16:53.036 I actually had the chance to interview Maurice White. 0:16:53.036 --> 0:16:55.716 And you interviewed Maurice White in the seventies. 0:16:55.876 --> 0:16:58.436 Yes, I lied and said I was a news reporter 0:16:58.516 --> 0:17:01.076 and got in to meet him. And me and my 0:17:01.156 --> 0:17:04.316 friend Darryl, we were so into them Aryl Simpson. 0:17:04.396 --> 0:17:05.596 So we watched the show. 0:17:06.756 --> 0:17:08.596 And they were kind of new there, so nobody was 0:17:08.676 --> 0:17:10.796 completely familiar. It was more of a black thing. They 0:17:10.796 --> 0:17:15.316 hadn't quite crossed over yet. So when we would go, 0:17:15.956 --> 0:17:20.436 we learned their songs and play their songs live. We 0:17:20.556 --> 0:17:24.036 take their whole routines and do it. We did it 0:17:24.076 --> 0:17:27.676 so well that actually, a couple of years later, there 0:17:27.716 --> 0:17:30.476 was a friend of ours that went to was going 0:17:30.516 --> 0:17:34.116 to school in Boston, and he called us in a 0:17:34.196 --> 0:17:37.516 frantic He said, you know, you guys need to sue 0:17:37.516 --> 0:17:41.276 this group. I just saw this group and they stole 0:17:41.596 --> 0:17:44.516 all of your songs and stole your whole act. 0:17:44.756 --> 0:17:47.596 You need to sue talk about. 0:17:50.356 --> 0:17:52.996 That's how earth Wind and Fire we were. So when 0:17:52.996 --> 0:17:54.956 I listened to that record, that's what I hear. I hear, 0:17:55.956 --> 0:17:58.716 I hear all those influences of from Earth Wind and 0:17:58.756 --> 0:18:04.996 Fire to Return Forever to Stevie Wonder, and it's all 0:18:05.076 --> 0:18:05.836 it's all mixed. 0:18:05.956 --> 0:18:08.036 And it sounded a little Parliament too. I was just 0:18:08.036 --> 0:18:10.436 really on the maybe the got some bootsy solo records 0:18:10.516 --> 0:18:11.756 or something that sounded very. 0:18:12.996 --> 0:18:16.196 Not quite yet. I think later on these records never 0:18:16.276 --> 0:18:18.996 came up. But later on I think I was, like 0:18:19.116 --> 0:18:21.236 Reggie was definitely Parliament influence. 0:18:21.316 --> 0:18:23.356 But I think we never really messed with that. We didn't. 0:18:23.916 --> 0:18:28.196 And that's the interesting thing because this band, Manchild, I 0:18:28.236 --> 0:18:29.436 always think that I missed the. 0:18:29.356 --> 0:18:30.596 Group up when I joined it. 0:18:31.356 --> 0:18:36.236 Why is that because the band was so funky before 0:18:37.316 --> 0:18:40.196 and I was just learning funk that was real fun 0:18:40.316 --> 0:18:43.396 yet that was it wasn't all the way there, but 0:18:44.116 --> 0:18:46.116 it was trying to be there, but I was just 0:18:46.196 --> 0:18:48.876 learning it. And the thing is when we were in 0:18:48.956 --> 0:18:54.556 Tarres Silver, before I was asked to join, we used 0:18:54.556 --> 0:18:56.276 to play all these as I told you before we 0:18:56.356 --> 0:18:59.796 used to play all these colleges and they were always 0:18:59.916 --> 0:19:03.076 more of a white audience. So everything we played, all 0:19:03.116 --> 0:19:06.476 they wanted to do is dance and drink and dance, 0:19:06.516 --> 0:19:09.436 and so we thought we were amazing. We're like, this 0:19:09.516 --> 0:19:12.916 is there's nothing, there's no crowd, we can't win. Before 0:19:12.956 --> 0:19:15.636 before we're over there dancing and they're running around them. 0:19:16.156 --> 0:19:18.476 You know, it's the best audience with it, and we 0:19:18.556 --> 0:19:21.196 just thought we had we was the ship. Then one 0:19:21.276 --> 0:19:25.476 day we got a gig to play for Tech High School, 0:19:25.716 --> 0:19:28.956 which was a all black school, and we got it 0:19:29.036 --> 0:19:32.436 to play for their prom and we went and started 0:19:32.436 --> 0:19:35.196 playing and they sat there with their. 0:19:35.116 --> 0:19:37.996 Arms folded looking at us like like what is this ship? 0:19:38.716 --> 0:19:41.756 You know? And we even pulled out one of theirse 0:19:41.836 --> 0:19:45.676 went for O songs I think devotion, thinking that was 0:19:45.676 --> 0:19:47.716 gonna get them. Nope, what is this its Soon as 0:19:47.716 --> 0:19:50.356 we stopped playing, they put on the Ohio players and 0:19:50.796 --> 0:19:53.356 the DJ and they was all on the floor dancing, 0:19:54.076 --> 0:19:56.996 and like realized how how unblack we were at that 0:19:57.116 --> 0:20:01.436 point and. 0:20:00.156 --> 0:20:02.196 How funky we didn't know anything about black and men. 0:20:03.076 --> 0:20:06.876 That same time period, we were asked to go down 0:20:06.876 --> 0:20:10.196 to this little club called the Inn Crowd which is 0:20:10.236 --> 0:20:14.076 where Man Child played, and they let us come down 0:20:14.076 --> 0:20:17.596 there to open up for them. We performed and they 0:20:17.596 --> 0:20:21.116 were kind to us, and then next up came out 0:20:21.476 --> 0:20:23.996 Man Child. They this is the first time seeing them, 0:20:24.356 --> 0:20:26.916 and when they came out, there was like dry ice 0:20:26.996 --> 0:20:31.676 coming out and they did this version of Chaka Khan 0:20:32.036 --> 0:20:34.076 Rufus and Chaka Khan, I'm a backbone. 0:20:34.116 --> 0:20:36.676 Yeah, I'm a woman, I'm a backbone. 0:20:35.916 --> 0:20:38.516 And so the chorus on that was I'm a woman, 0:20:38.636 --> 0:20:41.476 I'm a backbone, and they came out I'm a man child, 0:20:41.516 --> 0:20:45.756 I'm I'm a motherfucker, I'm a man. He was just 0:20:45.836 --> 0:20:49.356 so funky and so it was like, oh my god, 0:20:49.436 --> 0:20:54.596 I didn't know. And then they also included you know, 0:20:54.836 --> 0:20:57.236 returned to Forever Licks and they they were so they 0:20:57.236 --> 0:20:59.876 were very good and Chucky Bush was the key up 0:20:59.916 --> 0:21:02.556 Wheer who was who played with us for a little bit, 0:21:02.596 --> 0:21:04.236 so he was everybody was. 0:21:05.156 --> 0:21:05.876 They were like. 0:21:05.916 --> 0:21:09.076 Next level musicians. I thought that's when they were at 0:21:09.196 --> 0:21:13.036 their best. And when I joined the band, I think 0:21:13.076 --> 0:21:16.076 they were looking to stretch and go further so and 0:21:16.156 --> 0:21:20.076 try to be a little more mellowed and go other places. 0:21:21.036 --> 0:21:24.116 They had the lead singer, this guy named Flash Farrow, 0:21:24.436 --> 0:21:26.436 who was one of the best front men I've ever 0:21:26.516 --> 0:21:29.236 known and ever seen. He was like Mick Jagger, he 0:21:29.316 --> 0:21:31.996 was like he had a rough voice, so the songs 0:21:31.996 --> 0:21:34.756 that I was writing wasn't necessary for him, and I 0:21:34.836 --> 0:21:39.556 was I was singing, writing these softs love songs, and 0:21:39.556 --> 0:21:42.676 and he wasn't really feeling it, and neither was I 0:21:42.716 --> 0:21:47.076 think Bobby the drummer, and they kind of like didn't 0:21:47.116 --> 0:21:49.996 really completely like it. In fact, they gave me a nickname, 0:21:50.036 --> 0:21:55.236 which wasn't a nice nickname, but Waterfall. Really, yeah, all 0:21:55.236 --> 0:21:59.036 you do is waterfall music, you know, and you bring 0:21:59.436 --> 0:22:03.516 stop ringing that fucking ass waterfall music. And that's all 0:22:03.556 --> 0:22:06.516 I knew what to do, except every now and then 0:22:06.556 --> 0:22:10.516