WEBVTT - The Caitlin Clark Effect: Christine Brennan on the Athlete Changing Everything 0:00:00.600 --> 0:00:02.840 What if there were a way to reduce cancer deaths 0:00:02.920 --> 0:00:06.120 by half in the next twenty five years. This is 0:00:06.160 --> 0:00:10.360 the future Exact Sciences works toward every single day because 0:00:10.400 --> 0:00:14.360 they believe it's possible. Exact Sciences is a dedicated team 0:00:14.400 --> 0:00:17.880 of cancer fighters united by a purpose to help eradicate 0:00:17.960 --> 0:00:23.120 cancer by preventing it, detecting it earlier, and guiding personalized treatment. 0:00:23.760 --> 0:00:56.880 Visit exactsciences dot com to learn more. Hi everyone, I'm 0:00:56.960 --> 0:01:03.760 Katie Kuric and this is next question. My friend Christine 0:01:03.760 --> 0:01:06.840 Brennan and I have known each other since the eighties, 0:01:06.959 --> 0:01:10.759 when we both started out in our respective fields, Christine 0:01:11.360 --> 0:01:15.039 as a sportscaster and sports writer and me, of course, 0:01:15.080 --> 0:01:18.600 as a cup reporter back in Washington, d C. She's 0:01:18.640 --> 0:01:21.360 now written a book called On her Game, Caitlyn Clark 0:01:21.360 --> 0:01:24.520 in The Revolution in Women's Sports. I'm so excited to 0:01:24.560 --> 0:01:26.800 talk to you, Christine. Nice to see you, Thanks for 0:01:26.840 --> 0:01:27.319 coming in. 0:01:27.400 --> 0:01:29.280 Oh my gosh, Katie, great to see you. And we 0:01:29.319 --> 0:01:31.320 did important to say. We did start when we were 0:01:31.319 --> 0:01:35.480 in kindergarten in the eighties. Grank you, Yes, in the eighties. 0:01:35.600 --> 0:01:38.480 No, it's okay. I'm proud of my age. Christine. We 0:01:38.600 --> 0:01:42.960 need to be. But this book is so interesting and 0:01:43.000 --> 0:01:45.679 it's really about a phenom, as you call it, in 0:01:45.760 --> 0:01:49.920 the sports world, Caitlyn Clark. You spent six weeks on 0:01:50.000 --> 0:01:53.840 the road with Caitlin and the Indiana Fever, covering games, 0:01:53.920 --> 0:01:59.240 practices and press conferences, interviewing players, coaches, administrators, and fans, 0:01:59.280 --> 0:02:02.760 and you have been in Caitlyn Clark world for quite 0:02:02.800 --> 0:02:05.120 a while. How would you describe her? 0:02:05.960 --> 0:02:08.760 She is, of course, as you said, a phenomenon. As 0:02:08.800 --> 0:02:12.160 we say in the book, she is the all American 0:02:12.200 --> 0:02:17.760 girl grown up. She frankly is that girl that parents 0:02:17.800 --> 0:02:20.639 see in the kitchen every morning who is racing off 0:02:20.680 --> 0:02:24.880 to soccer practice, changing in the car to switch to 0:02:24.960 --> 0:02:28.280 volleyball practice or lacrosse, or the neighbor who waves at 0:02:28.320 --> 0:02:30.560 the girl going trudging off with the bag on her 0:02:30.680 --> 0:02:34.000 shoulder to another sports practice. What we have created in 0:02:34.000 --> 0:02:36.200 this country, Katie, and you know this with your daughters, 0:02:36.760 --> 0:02:39.760 is the opportunity for girls, the other half of our population, 0:02:39.840 --> 0:02:42.559 to learn these life lessons about sports that for generations 0:02:42.560 --> 0:02:44.919 we were saying no no to girls and women. You 0:02:44.960 --> 0:02:49.080 cannot learn about sports, winning and losing at a young age, teamwork, sportsmanship. 0:02:49.280 --> 0:02:51.640 Because of title nine, which by the way, is just 0:02:51.680 --> 0:02:55.600 celebrated its fifty third anniversary and has really come of 0:02:55.639 --> 0:02:59.600 age over the last twenty thirty years. And so Caitlyn 0:02:59.680 --> 0:03:00.920 Clark is that person. 0:03:01.080 --> 0:03:03.240 It's a beneficiarya she's a beneficiary. 0:03:03.320 --> 0:03:06.240 She is, frankly, what we created, and the nation has 0:03:06.280 --> 0:03:09.520 fallen in love with what it is created. Usually, you know, 0:03:09.600 --> 0:03:12.120 team sports. Obviously tennis and other sports are part of 0:03:12.160 --> 0:03:14.800 the conversation too, but what do girls play at age 0:03:14.800 --> 0:03:18.880 five and six? Soccer, t ball? It's about team sports. 0:03:18.960 --> 0:03:21.840 And when we see the professional side, we often see 0:03:22.040 --> 0:03:25.679 the great names obviously Serena and Venus Williams tennis and 0:03:25.840 --> 0:03:29.840 individual sport, or the Olympic stars like Katie Ledecki Simone 0:03:29.840 --> 0:03:34.520 Biles again individual sports. So this is that first huge 0:03:34.960 --> 0:03:40.120 breakthrough team sport athlete. Thank you title nind That literally 0:03:40.160 --> 0:03:43.360 the guy that wouldn't have been caught dead watching women's sports, 0:03:43.760 --> 0:03:47.320 that guy who thinks that just inferior would never have 0:03:47.320 --> 0:03:50.520 been seen outside in a women's sports jersey. That's the guy. 0:03:50.560 --> 0:03:52.480 And I interviewed a lot of these guys who are 0:03:52.720 --> 0:03:55.200 putting on the number twenty two jersey going to the 0:03:55.240 --> 0:03:59.000 grocery store, going to the game, planning their evenings around 0:03:59.040 --> 0:04:02.200 the starting time of Caitlin Clark's game. And you know, 0:04:02.440 --> 0:04:04.080 you and I have been around a long time. I 0:04:04.120 --> 0:04:08.080 almost cannot believe that I'm saying these sentences about a 0:04:08.080 --> 0:04:11.560 female athlete, that this has happened in our lifetime. I 0:04:11.560 --> 0:04:14.240 didn't really think it would happen with the kind of 0:04:14.440 --> 0:04:18.640 TV ratings, the audience. But it's about a person that 0:04:18.640 --> 0:04:21.280 the nation I think has correctly fallen in love with, 0:04:21.720 --> 0:04:25.280 who is as publicly appreciative an athlete as I have 0:04:25.400 --> 0:04:29.960 ever seen. The maturity, the poise handling every issue, lots 0:04:29.960 --> 0:04:32.159 of stuff thrown at her, lots of controversy, as you know, 0:04:32.760 --> 0:04:37.840 and everything about her and elegance, intelligence, and just also 0:04:37.880 --> 0:04:40.400 a sense of humor that you would hope to see 0:04:40.400 --> 0:04:42.880 in someone. And America, there she is. 0:04:43.200 --> 0:04:46.240 I want to backtrack a second, Christine, and have you 0:04:46.360 --> 0:04:51.360 explain why Title nine was so important and what it did, because, 0:04:51.400 --> 0:04:53.839 as you said, this was fifty three years ago, we're 0:04:53.880 --> 0:04:59.200 now seeing the fruits of that presenting itself today. What 0:04:59.320 --> 0:05:00.880 did Title nine do exactly? 0:05:01.279 --> 0:05:06.280 June twenty third, nineteen seventy two basically mandated that if 0:05:06.480 --> 0:05:10.320 a school was receiving federal funding, which all schools, even 0:05:10.320 --> 0:05:13.599 private schools, receive federal funding, pelgrants, what have you, that 0:05:13.760 --> 0:05:18.479 they could not discriminate against female students in any way. 0:05:18.880 --> 0:05:22.040 The original intent was law schools and med schools. Within 0:05:22.080 --> 0:05:25.200 a few years it started to be seen in terms 0:05:25.240 --> 0:05:27.560 of the athletic fields and opportunity for girls and women 0:05:27.600 --> 0:05:31.320 to play sports. And the idea is proportional. So if 0:05:31.360 --> 0:05:35.679 a school is fifty three percent female enrollment and forty 0:05:35.680 --> 0:05:38.680 seven percent male, the idea then is you should have 0:05:38.720 --> 0:05:42.320 fifty three percent of your sports opportunities for women forty 0:05:42.360 --> 0:05:45.640 seven percent for men. So now you have dads out 0:05:45.760 --> 0:05:48.839 throwing the baseball or the softball with their daughter the 0:05:48.880 --> 0:05:51.320 way they did with their sons a generation or two ago, 0:05:51.720 --> 0:05:54.479 because you see that caret of potentially what one hundred 0:05:54.480 --> 0:05:57.760 thousand dollars a year a college scholarship that your daughter 0:05:57.800 --> 0:05:59.960 can have just like your son from the past. 0:06:00.400 --> 0:06:04.080 But also it's about resources and facilities, right that you 0:06:04.360 --> 0:06:08.839 have to devote resources, and you have to give women's 0:06:08.920 --> 0:06:13.000 teams areas to work out and weight rooms just like 0:06:13.120 --> 0:06:14.680 you do for the men. 0:06:15.000 --> 0:06:17.520 Right, well, exactly, locker room size should be the same. 0:06:18.080 --> 0:06:21.360 Now we'll say this you and I not born yesterday. 0:06:22.120 --> 0:06:25.560 It doesn't happen everywhere, and most schools are not in 0:06:25.640 --> 0:06:29.600 compliance with Title nine even now. But one of the 0:06:29.760 --> 0:06:32.680 three prongs of being able to follow the law is 0:06:32.680 --> 0:06:36.200 actually that you're showing you're working towards compliance. Now, if 0:06:36.240 --> 0:06:38.320 this happened with another law, you'd say what kind of 0:06:38.360 --> 0:06:38.839 law is that? 0:06:39.160 --> 0:06:39.400 Right? 0:06:39.440 --> 0:06:42.400 But in this case, Title nine has been very forgiving 0:06:42.440 --> 0:06:43.760 for those athletic departments. 0:06:44.279 --> 0:06:48.400 How did Title nine directly impact? Caitlin Clark? 0:06:49.040 --> 0:06:50.960 So you have this, as I said, it's a law, 0:06:51.040 --> 0:06:53.640 for sure, and it's a law that is still working 0:06:53.720 --> 0:06:55.479 its way through in terms of being followed. And of 0:06:55.480 --> 0:06:58.640 course you throw anil the money that is now being paid, 0:06:58.680 --> 0:07:01.400 and that's not equal at all. But there's the other 0:07:01.440 --> 0:07:03.599 part of it that I mentioned a moment ago mindset, 0:07:04.000 --> 0:07:06.919 the nation's mindset that it was acceptable for girls and 0:07:06.920 --> 0:07:10.000 women to play sports when you and I were growing up, 0:07:10.200 --> 0:07:13.360 you and Arlington me in the suburbs of Toledo. If 0:07:13.360 --> 0:07:15.920 our moms and dads drove buy a field and there 0:07:15.960 --> 0:07:18.000 was a girl on that field, the odds are that 0:07:18.080 --> 0:07:20.160 she was there telling your brother it was time to 0:07:20.200 --> 0:07:23.400 come home for dinner. I mean, what was that girl 0:07:23.440 --> 0:07:27.480 doing on a sports field? Now, people driving through those neighborhoods, 0:07:27.920 --> 0:07:31.880 do you even have a second clance, third glance if 0:07:31.920 --> 0:07:35.080 you see a whole team of girls playing soccer or 0:07:35.200 --> 0:07:38.320 lacrosse or you know, running, you know through the neighborhood. 0:07:38.520 --> 0:07:41.600 Of course not. That's the mindset thing that I'm talking about, 0:07:41.840 --> 0:07:45.040 the sense that we not only expect it, we want 0:07:45.200 --> 0:07:47.920 our daughters, our nieces, our granddaughters to be doing this. Right. 0:07:48.280 --> 0:07:51.240 So, really it was the attitude shift that came with 0:07:51.400 --> 0:07:56.760 Title nine that created the environment for someone like Caitlin 0:07:56.880 --> 0:07:58.640 Clark to really thrive. 0:07:58.680 --> 0:08:01.400 Exactly because now and also I think another key part 0:08:01.440 --> 0:08:03.000 of this, and I say this in the book, so 0:08:03.400 --> 0:08:06.000 nineteen seventy two and Kaylen Clark doesn't come along till 0:08:06.000 --> 0:08:08.600 two thousand and two, so it's a long time. So 0:08:08.640 --> 0:08:12.520 thirty years, basically thirty years there's stepping stones in the 0:08:12.560 --> 0:08:14.760 history of women's sports. You and I both know Billy 0:08:14.800 --> 0:08:18.200 jan King very well. So when we're still kids in 0:08:18.240 --> 0:08:21.160 our respective homes nineteen seventy three, September of seventy three, 0:08:21.160 --> 0:08:24.760 Billy Jean beats Bobby Riggs a very big deal, right, 0:08:24.880 --> 0:08:28.760 especially for empowering, for girls growing up. You move on 0:08:28.840 --> 0:08:32.040 to say, the Atlanta Olympics in nineteen ninety six, I 0:08:32.080 --> 0:08:34.640 think you were probably there. I was, yes, for a 0:08:34.640 --> 0:08:37.360 certain network doing great work. I was there as well. 0:08:37.840 --> 0:08:40.880 You're watching the Women's Olympics, where everything is about the 0:08:41.200 --> 0:08:44.920 great female athletes. Moving ahead three years later, the nineteen 0:08:45.000 --> 0:08:48.600 ninety nine Women's World Cup, the soccer tournament, and of 0:08:48.640 --> 0:08:51.680 course you've got you know, Brandy Chastain and Nicole and 0:08:51.760 --> 0:08:54.080 you know, whipping her shirt over her head and yeah, 0:08:54.120 --> 0:08:57.640 all of that and so that to me, that was 0:08:57.679 --> 0:09:00.760 forty million viewers on TV. It was July tenth of 0:09:00.840 --> 0:09:03.960 nineteen ninety nine, and it was over ninety thousand people 0:09:04.040 --> 0:09:06.960 in the Rose Bowl. Rose Bowl, of course, well known 0:09:07.000 --> 0:09:11.840 as a great college football facility, packed to the rafters, 0:09:11.840 --> 0:09:13.400 to the gills. I guess there's no rafters in the 0:09:13.480 --> 0:09:16.080 Rose Bowl, but packed to whatever, to the top row 0:09:16.480 --> 0:09:19.679 for women's soccer in this country in nineteen ninety nine, 0:09:20.200 --> 0:09:23.199 a revelation. I'm going to give you a trivia note 0:09:23.240 --> 0:09:26.080 for your next cocktail party. Name the one story in 0:09:26.120 --> 0:09:29.720 the history of stories that made the cover of Time, Newsweek, People, 0:09:30.000 --> 0:09:34.200 and Sports Illustrated the same week. I've obviously given it away. 0:09:34.040 --> 0:09:34.720 The World Cup. 0:09:34.880 --> 0:09:37.319 Yes, Brandy Chastain and the teammates. 0:09:37.559 --> 0:09:41.000 Yeah, but I'll never forget that shot of Brandy, you know, 0:09:41.080 --> 0:09:42.760 kneeling on the field in her. 0:09:42.679 --> 0:09:45.000 Sports bra right right, because she'd taken her shirt off 0:09:45.040 --> 0:09:46.839 and the people thought, oh, she's probably trying to sell 0:09:46.880 --> 0:09:49.800 the sports bra. No, no, no. She watched men's soccer for 0:09:49.920 --> 0:09:52.720 years because she had no women's soccer to watch growing up. 0:09:53.160 --> 0:09:55.440 And she's born in nineteen sixty eight, so she's, you know, 0:09:55.480 --> 0:09:57.920 coming along at that time. The title nine is really exploding, 0:09:58.320 --> 0:10:00.559 and so she's watching European men'sawa what do they do 0:10:00.600 --> 0:10:02.760 when they have an important goal? They take off their 0:10:02.760 --> 0:10:04.320 shirt and they whip it over the head. So she said, 0:10:04.360 --> 0:10:06.559 that's what she did, which we of course loved Brandy 0:10:06.600 --> 0:10:10.320 for that. So anyway, that's happening. The nation has just 0:10:10.440 --> 0:10:13.040 fallen in love again with what it is created. And 0:10:13.080 --> 0:10:15.760 then two and a half years later, a little girl 0:10:15.840 --> 0:10:18.480 is born in Des Moines, Iowa, and we have no 0:10:18.559 --> 0:10:22.120 idea who she is, and she's the one in terms 0:10:22.120 --> 0:10:24.920 of team sports that comes along at the exact right 0:10:25.000 --> 0:10:28.400 time as our nation is just loving everything that we 0:10:28.440 --> 0:10:29.040 have created. 0:10:29.520 --> 0:10:32.679 Christine as I mentioned you spent six weeks on the road. 0:10:33.120 --> 0:10:36.120 Were you able to actually sit down and do an 0:10:36.559 --> 0:10:39.440 interview with Caitlin Clark, because at one point I know 0:10:39.600 --> 0:10:42.599 this was being called an unauthorized biography. 0:10:42.760 --> 0:10:46.400 Yes, it is an unauthorized biography, and still it still is. 0:10:46.800 --> 0:10:50.000 And you know that can sound ominous. It couldn't be 0:10:50.040 --> 0:10:53.080 further from the truth. It's unauthorized because I wanted it 0:10:53.120 --> 0:10:56.199 to be journalistic. If it's an authorized book, you're then 0:10:56.240 --> 0:10:59.040 working with the person, right And I want to continue 0:10:59.080 --> 0:11:01.560 to cover these stories. And I am continuing to cover 0:11:01.960 --> 0:11:05.120 the stories involving Kaitlin Clark, women's sports, the Olympics, everything 0:11:05.120 --> 0:11:07.280 else that I cover. And if I had been in 0:11:07.320 --> 0:11:10.440 business with Kaitlyn Clark, I couldn't cover for again. 0:11:10.480 --> 0:11:12.880 I mean, but having said that, did she sit down 0:11:12.920 --> 0:11:15.240 with you and did you have a long conversation or 0:11:15.280 --> 0:11:17.000 did you just capture moments? 0:11:17.400 --> 0:11:20.880 More capturing moments I asked her probably about fifty questions. 0:11:21.200 --> 0:11:22.000 Well that's the lot. 0:11:22.160 --> 0:11:25.000 Yeah, not bad. I think. You know, it's funny as 0:11:25.040 --> 0:11:27.360 you look back on actually writing the book, I think 0:11:27.400 --> 0:11:30.120 I probably used about one third of her quotes and comments, 0:11:30.320 --> 0:11:33.319 So I had so much because she is you know, 0:11:33.480 --> 0:11:35.240 she's a great talker, and she goes on and on 0:11:35.280 --> 0:11:36.960 and she answers a question, then she'll go off on 0:11:37.000 --> 0:11:39.600 a tangent that you care very very much about. 0:11:39.760 --> 0:11:41.760 So did you sit down with her, Christine, or did 0:11:41.760 --> 0:11:44.520 you just kind of grab her during quiet moments? 0:11:44.559 --> 0:11:48.240 Well, what happened was press availabilities, which often involved just 0:11:48.280 --> 0:11:51.800 a few reporters. I could ask her anything, no holds barred, 0:11:52.480 --> 0:11:54.200 nothing was off limits, of course, I mean that would 0:11:54.200 --> 0:11:56.760 never I would never agree to anything like that. Ask 0:11:56.800 --> 0:12:00.280 her tough questions, ask her, you know, literally anything. For example, 0:12:00.320 --> 0:12:03.840 after she liked the Taylor Swift post that was, of 0:12:03.880 --> 0:12:07.880 course Taylor Swift endorsing Kamala Harris. The next day I 0:12:08.040 --> 0:12:09.960 was in DC, and then that next morning I flooded 0:12:10.040 --> 0:12:12.920 Indy for that game. Often she'll have three times of 0:12:12.960 --> 0:12:16.559 press availabilities during a day morning shoot around, and then 0:12:16.679 --> 0:12:19.160 before the game and after the game. And so in 0:12:19.200 --> 0:12:21.960 this case it was I of course wanted to ask 0:12:21.960 --> 0:12:25.760 her about the liking of that Taylor Swift post, because, 0:12:26.200 --> 0:12:28.880 as you and others might remember, not only was that 0:12:28.920 --> 0:12:30.960 a big deal, but within a few minutes on x 0:12:30.960 --> 0:12:33.880 and other social media, a news story and other things 0:12:33.880 --> 0:12:36.200 came out about who liked the post, and it was 0:12:36.200 --> 0:12:40.600 Oprah Winfrey, and it was Kylie Kelsey and Jennifer Aniston 0:12:41.120 --> 0:12:44.040 and Caitlyn Clark. So she's a celebrity now being in 0:12:44.360 --> 0:12:48.079 the news about liking the post, and so of course 0:12:48.200 --> 0:12:50.320 I asked her. And I started out in a friendly 0:12:50.320 --> 0:12:53.800 way because this is sports and she is twenty two, 0:12:54.440 --> 0:12:56.080 and I've been known to ask a lot of tough 0:12:56.160 --> 0:12:58.800 questions and get people occasionally mad at me over the years, 0:12:58.800 --> 0:13:01.200 and that's part of being a journals as you know well, 0:13:01.679 --> 0:13:03.760 and that's you know, whether people like you or not, 0:13:03.840 --> 0:13:06.160 you're doing your job. But I started out by saying, 0:13:06.240 --> 0:13:08.880 as you know, you'd like to post that got a 0:13:08.880 --> 0:13:12.360 lot of attention last night, big smile, And I said, 0:13:12.440 --> 0:13:16.080 I'm just curious what Taylor Swift's post meant to you, 0:13:16.679 --> 0:13:20.560 and are you potentially endorsing Kamala Harris for president? And 0:13:20.640 --> 0:13:23.280 Caitlin Clark answered the first part in about a minute 0:13:23.360 --> 0:13:27.000 answer and then did not answer the second part, and 0:13:27.040 --> 0:13:29.520 I think that's probably a smart move by her. But 0:13:29.600 --> 0:13:31.680 going back to your question, she and I did meet 0:13:31.800 --> 0:13:34.320 and have a one on one, but that was basically 0:13:34.360 --> 0:13:37.400 just a first meeting off the record, which was lovely. 0:13:37.679 --> 0:13:39.760 And then I also was in some practices where no 0:13:39.840 --> 0:13:42.640 other journalists were, and of course had plenty of time 0:13:43.040 --> 0:13:46.480 to talk to all kinds of people, her friends, her coaches, 0:13:47.000 --> 0:13:49.559 in depth interviews to get those stories that she might 0:13:49.600 --> 0:13:52.640 not tell. She never said no comment, she never said 0:13:52.640 --> 0:13:54.640 I don't want to talk about this. I can't thank 0:13:54.679 --> 0:13:57.520 her enough for spending the time, and that was usually 0:13:57.559 --> 0:14:00.760 again just around the team settings, because it was because 0:14:00.880 --> 0:14:02.960 with the deal, you know, the book deal, and then boom, 0:14:02.960 --> 0:14:04.480 now I'm writing this book quite quickly. 0:14:04.679 --> 0:14:07.720 Right well, tell us a little bit about her childhood, Christine, 0:14:07.720 --> 0:14:10.520 because she sounds like she was a true multi hyphen 0:14:10.600 --> 0:14:14.760 it when it comes to sports. She played soccer, basketball. 0:14:14.880 --> 0:14:19.000 She was also National Honors Society presidential Honor role. Give 0:14:19.080 --> 0:14:22.840 us just a glimpse into her family life, her parents, 0:14:22.960 --> 0:14:27.680 her siblings, and how this young woman was really formed 0:14:27.720 --> 0:14:28.400 and created. 0:14:28.440 --> 0:14:30.920 If you will, you know she was formed and created 0:14:31.040 --> 0:14:34.040 on a basketball court or a soccer field or a 0:14:34.080 --> 0:14:36.680 golf course by a mom and dad who loved sports 0:14:36.760 --> 0:14:39.680 and had sports in their lives, big brother and a 0:14:39.720 --> 0:14:41.800 little brother. And of course the big brother was very 0:14:41.840 --> 0:14:44.440 helpful in terms of kind of toughening her up, and 0:14:44.600 --> 0:14:47.560 she started playing basketball. She wanted to play at age five, 0:14:47.680 --> 0:14:50.200 and there were no girls leagues for her, so her 0:14:50.280 --> 0:14:52.840 dad was coaching a boys league and she started playing 0:14:52.840 --> 0:14:55.320 against the boys. And when I spent a lot of 0:14:55.320 --> 0:14:58.560 time talking to her, AAU coach, a man named Dixon Jensen, 0:14:58.600 --> 0:15:01.600 who was fantastic, coached her all the way through on 0:15:01.680 --> 0:15:04.520 the club level, not the high school level. What he 0:15:04.640 --> 0:15:07.720 said was that time she spent playing against the boys, 0:15:07.760 --> 0:15:10.600 which she went far longer, Katie, than most girls do. 0:15:11.280 --> 0:15:13.000 You know, after a while, most of the girls kind 0:15:13.000 --> 0:15:15.720 of fall away and go play against the girls, which 0:15:15.760 --> 0:15:17.720 is what we want. You know, the boys are getting 0:15:17.720 --> 0:15:21.480 a little stronger, a little tougher. Caitlyn stayed till like, 0:15:21.600 --> 0:15:24.680 you know, fifth sixth grade, she was playing against the boys, 0:15:25.040 --> 0:15:27.480 and as Dixon Jensen said, it was perfect for her 0:15:27.480 --> 0:15:29.600 because the boys are a little tougher, a little stronger, 0:15:29.600 --> 0:15:32.040 and I love this when he said this, a little meaner, 0:15:32.920 --> 0:15:36.160 and Caitlyn was learning to play against them. And there 0:15:36.200 --> 0:15:38.240 was one player who's ended up playing for the Iowa 0:15:38.280 --> 0:15:41.720 men's basketball team who in second grade, his team lost 0:15:41.720 --> 0:15:45.360 to Caitlyn's team, and he said even do all girls 0:15:45.640 --> 0:15:46.920 play basketball like this? 0:15:47.120 --> 0:15:47.320 You know? 0:15:47.360 --> 0:15:49.280 He was like, my gosh, is this what all girls 0:15:49.320 --> 0:15:52.520 are like? And obviously she was born for this. 0:15:52.840 --> 0:15:55.440 I was going to ask, did her parents and siblings 0:15:55.480 --> 0:16:01.880 and community and friends realize she was preternaturally talented right away? 0:16:02.320 --> 0:16:06.440 Or was it something that they sort of discovered when 0:16:06.440 --> 0:16:09.040 she was in high school? You know? What separated her 0:16:09.200 --> 0:16:12.960 from a really good basketball player who enjoyed the game 0:16:13.200 --> 0:16:15.640 to somebody who was next level? 0:16:15.920 --> 0:16:18.720 You know? She says now she has says, I hate 0:16:18.720 --> 0:16:21.040 to lose. I hate to lose. I want to win everything. 0:16:21.160 --> 0:16:23.240 I want to be the best. So I think what 0:16:23.320 --> 0:16:25.840 we're looking at here is someone who, at the youngest 0:16:25.880 --> 0:16:29.480 age knew what she loved, knew she was good at it, 0:16:29.640 --> 0:16:33.120 really good at it, tall enough and big enough. The 0:16:33.160 --> 0:16:35.920 sport that she was actually excellent at early on in 0:16:36.000 --> 0:16:39.520 high school was soccer, and she was scoring goals like crazy. 0:16:39.960 --> 0:16:43.160 And she said she learned through soccer with the angles, 0:16:43.200 --> 0:16:45.800 the passing angles, because so much about soccer was passing, right, 0:16:46.040 --> 0:16:48.560 it's not scoring. But she gave up soccer because now 0:16:48.600 --> 0:16:52.240 her basketball career is taking off. There's these younger teams 0:16:52.240 --> 0:16:55.400 that go internationally in play. So she made those USA teams. 0:16:55.600 --> 0:16:59.120 So now she's away, you know, overseas playing basketball. But 0:16:59.160 --> 0:17:02.720 again I go back to the nation saying, this is 0:17:02.760 --> 0:17:05.680 the moment, right, There's not a soul on earth who's 0:17:05.720 --> 0:17:09.800 telling her no. Right, which girls growing up our age 0:17:09.840 --> 0:17:12.560 got it all the time, and what a shame? What 0:17:12.600 --> 0:17:15.960 were we thinking? But also now go back to the kitchen, 0:17:16.080 --> 0:17:18.399 go back to mom and dad with their dad, a 0:17:18.440 --> 0:17:21.960 two sport athlete in D three. Her mother's father, the grandfather, 0:17:22.320 --> 0:17:25.280 was a legendary high school football coach at the same 0:17:25.400 --> 0:17:27.920 high school that Caitlin went to. You've got the older 0:17:27.960 --> 0:17:31.200 brother who's playing sports, played football at Iowa State. 0:17:31.080 --> 0:17:33.240 So really in their blood. And did you get a 0:17:33.359 --> 0:17:35.679 chance to talk to her parents when you were writing 0:17:35.680 --> 0:17:36.200 this book? 0:17:36.600 --> 0:17:38.960 I met both mom and dad, but they preferred not 0:17:39.240 --> 0:17:41.399 to talk to me anymore about that, which is fine 0:17:41.440 --> 0:17:44.080 because I had plenty of other material from other people. 0:17:44.280 --> 0:17:46.920 Yeah, be interesting to talk to them at some point 0:17:47.280 --> 0:17:49.040 to really do a profile of them. 0:17:49.119 --> 0:17:51.120 I would love to do that. And as I said 0:17:51.160 --> 0:17:53.280 to them in the private conversations I had with both 0:17:53.320 --> 0:17:55.800 of them, I looked at them and I said, what 0:17:55.840 --> 0:17:58.680 an amazing daughter you have raised. 0:17:58.600 --> 0:18:01.359 Not only as an apple Fleet, but as the person 0:18:01.400 --> 0:18:11.280 in terms of the way she's handled herself. 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I know you 0:19:02.560 --> 0:19:07.840 start the book with watching Caitlin play for the first time. 0:19:08.280 --> 0:19:10.000 Tell us about that experience. 0:19:10.520 --> 0:19:13.920 Well, I'm on my iPad in my kitchen in Northwest DC, 0:19:14.480 --> 0:19:19.359 and I was watching the Indiana Iowa women's basketball game 0:19:20.040 --> 0:19:23.080 February of twenty twenty three, and I was actually watching 0:19:23.080 --> 0:19:25.720 the game to watch the Indiana team, which was ranked 0:19:25.760 --> 0:19:27.440 second in the country. Because all my siblings went to 0:19:27.440 --> 0:19:31.200 Indiana University, I went to Northwestern and this team is great, 0:19:31.240 --> 0:19:32.520 So I'm just kind of keeping an eye on the 0:19:32.560 --> 0:19:36.960 game and I was losing and last inbound, you know, 0:19:37.040 --> 0:19:39.719 second half left, and the ball goes to Caitlin Clark 0:19:39.800 --> 0:19:42.120 and everyone knows it's going to Kaitlin Clark, and she's 0:19:42.200 --> 0:19:44.399 kind of sideways and one legs this way and the 0:19:44.480 --> 0:19:46.679 other legs this way, as we've come to realize and 0:19:46.760 --> 0:19:50.199 know what it looks like. And she's just throwing that 0:19:50.240 --> 0:19:53.320 ball up and it goes in and she just runs 0:19:53.320 --> 0:19:57.040 off the court and goes crazy and everyone's following her around. 0:19:57.119 --> 0:19:58.200 They win the game by one. 0:19:58.640 --> 0:20:02.680 Point exactly, and you know what it was. I mean, 0:20:02.920 --> 0:20:05.320 I've covered a lot and have you know, seen pretty 0:20:05.800 --> 0:20:08.600 amazing sports feeds as you have at the Olympics and 0:20:08.640 --> 0:20:12.080 other places. And I have to say that I kind 0:20:12.080 --> 0:20:14.360 of watched the replan. I watched the replay again. 0:20:14.920 --> 0:20:15.920 And what was it? 0:20:16.880 --> 0:20:20.440 And this really helped me understand the nation's fascination with her, Katie. 0:20:20.520 --> 0:20:23.040 To be honest with you, you realize you just kind of 0:20:23.080 --> 0:20:25.199 you can't take your eyes off of her. Have we 0:20:25.280 --> 0:20:30.120 seen a female athlete who is really a high wire act? Right? 0:20:30.840 --> 0:20:35.360 Sports and athletic for sure, but really an entertainer, and 0:20:35.960 --> 0:20:38.240 I've felt very lucky at that moment to have this 0:20:38.320 --> 0:20:42.080 experience of kind of just wandering into watching this finale 0:20:42.200 --> 0:20:44.359 and in this incredible shot, and they do win the game. 0:20:44.800 --> 0:20:47.320 And then of course, within a few weeks she's now 0:20:47.359 --> 0:20:51.760 going to the Final four, and they're upsetting South Carolina, 0:20:52.040 --> 0:20:54.159 and now she's taking an Iowa team that was not 0:20:54.240 --> 0:20:57.399 expected to do anything all the way to the final game, 0:20:57.880 --> 0:20:59.840 and now the nation is just kind of falling in 0:20:59.880 --> 0:21:03.600 love with this athlete that you're watching. I understand that, 0:21:03.720 --> 0:21:07.640 and I think that's helped inform me and understand what 0:21:07.720 --> 0:21:10.000 people might be thinking, because I kind of went through 0:21:10.040 --> 0:21:11.840 it at that moment in my kitchen. 0:21:12.640 --> 0:21:17.240 There was a confluence of factors that allowed Caitlin's career 0:21:17.280 --> 0:21:22.680 to skyrocket. One was nil name, image, likeness, you said quote. 0:21:22.880 --> 0:21:25.680 By the time Clark was done with college, she reportedly 0:21:25.760 --> 0:21:29.520 had at least eleven NIL deals worth more than three million, 0:21:29.920 --> 0:21:33.880 including TV commercials such as her ubiquitous State Farm spots 0:21:34.160 --> 0:21:38.560