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Speaker 1: What if there were a way to reduce cancer deaths

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Speaker 1: Visit exactsciences dot com to learn more. Hi everyone, I'm

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Speaker 1: Katie Kuric and this is next question. My friend Christine

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Speaker 1: Brennan and I have known each other since the eighties,

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Speaker 1: when we both started out in our respective fields, Christine

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Speaker 1: as a sportscaster and sports writer and me, of course,

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Speaker 1: as a cup reporter back in Washington, d C. She's

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Speaker 1: now written a book called On her Game, Caitlyn Clark

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Speaker 1: in The Revolution in Women's Sports. I'm so excited to

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Speaker 1: talk to you, Christine. Nice to see you, Thanks for

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Speaker 1: coming in.

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Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, Katie, great to see you. And we

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Speaker 2: did important to say. We did start when we were

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Speaker 2: in kindergarten in the eighties. Grank you, Yes, in the eighties.

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Speaker 1: No, it's okay. I'm proud of my age. Christine. We

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Speaker 1: need to be. But this book is so interesting and

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Speaker 1: it's really about a phenom, as you call it, in

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Speaker 1: the sports world, Caitlyn Clark. You spent six weeks on

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Speaker 1: the road with Caitlin and the Indiana Fever, covering games,

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Speaker 1: practices and press conferences, interviewing players, coaches, administrators, and fans,

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Speaker 1: and you have been in Caitlyn Clark world for quite

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Speaker 1: a while. How would you describe her?

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Speaker 2: She is, of course, as you said, a phenomenon. As

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Speaker 2: we say in the book, she is the all American

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Speaker 2: girl grown up. She frankly is that girl that parents

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Speaker 2: see in the kitchen every morning who is racing off

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Speaker 2: to soccer practice, changing in the car to switch to

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Speaker 2: volleyball practice or lacrosse, or the neighbor who waves at

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Speaker 2: the girl going trudging off with the bag on her

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Speaker 2: shoulder to another sports practice. What we have created in

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Speaker 2: this country, Katie, and you know this with your daughters,

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Speaker 2: is the opportunity for girls, the other half of our population,

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Speaker 2: to learn these life lessons about sports that for generations

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Speaker 2: we were saying no no to girls and women. You

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Speaker 2: cannot learn about sports, winning and losing at a young age, teamwork, sportsmanship.

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Speaker 2: Because of title nine, which by the way, is just

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Speaker 2: celebrated its fifty third anniversary and has really come of

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Speaker 2: age over the last twenty thirty years. And so Caitlyn

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Speaker 2: Clark is that person.

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Speaker 1: It's a beneficiarya she's a beneficiary.

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Speaker 2: She is, frankly, what we created, and the nation has

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Speaker 2: fallen in love with what it is created. Usually, you know,

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Speaker 2: team sports. Obviously tennis and other sports are part of

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Speaker 2: the conversation too, but what do girls play at age

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Speaker 2: five and six? Soccer, t ball? It's about team sports.

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Speaker 2: And when we see the professional side, we often see

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Speaker 2: the great names obviously Serena and Venus Williams tennis and

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Speaker 2: individual sport, or the Olympic stars like Katie Ledecki Simone

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Speaker 2: Biles again individual sports. So this is that first huge

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Speaker 2: breakthrough team sport athlete. Thank you title nind That literally

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Speaker 2: the guy that wouldn't have been caught dead watching women's sports,

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Speaker 2: that guy who thinks that just inferior would never have

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Speaker 2: been seen outside in a women's sports jersey. That's the guy.

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Speaker 2: And I interviewed a lot of these guys who are

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Speaker 2: putting on the number twenty two jersey going to the

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Speaker 2: grocery store, going to the game, planning their evenings around

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Speaker 2: the starting time of Caitlin Clark's game. And you know,

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Speaker 2: you and I have been around a long time. I

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Speaker 2: almost cannot believe that I'm saying these sentences about a

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Speaker 2: female athlete, that this has happened in our lifetime. I

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Speaker 2: didn't really think it would happen with the kind of

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Speaker 2: TV ratings, the audience. But it's about a person that

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Speaker 2: the nation I think has correctly fallen in love with,

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Speaker 2: who is as publicly appreciative an athlete as I have

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Speaker 2: ever seen. The maturity, the poise handling every issue, lots

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Speaker 2: of stuff thrown at her, lots of controversy, as you know,

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Speaker 2: and everything about her and elegance, intelligence, and just also

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Speaker 2: a sense of humor that you would hope to see

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Speaker 2: in someone. And America, there she is.

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Speaker 1: I want to backtrack a second, Christine, and have you

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Speaker 1: explain why Title nine was so important and what it did, because,

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Speaker 1: as you said, this was fifty three years ago, we're

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Speaker 1: now seeing the fruits of that presenting itself today. What

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Speaker 1: did Title nine do exactly?

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Speaker 2: June twenty third, nineteen seventy two basically mandated that if

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Speaker 2: a school was receiving federal funding, which all schools, even

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Speaker 2: private schools, receive federal funding, pelgrants, what have you, that

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Speaker 2: they could not discriminate against female students in any way.

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Speaker 2: The original intent was law schools and med schools. Within

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Speaker 2: a few years it started to be seen in terms

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Speaker 2: of the athletic fields and opportunity for girls and women

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Speaker 2: to play sports. And the idea is proportional. So if

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Speaker 2: a school is fifty three percent female enrollment and forty

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Speaker 2: seven percent male, the idea then is you should have

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Speaker 2: fifty three percent of your sports opportunities for women forty

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Speaker 2: seven percent for men. So now you have dads out

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Speaker 2: throwing the baseball or the softball with their daughter the

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Speaker 2: way they did with their sons a generation or two ago,

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Speaker 2: because you see that caret of potentially what one hundred

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Speaker 2: thousand dollars a year a college scholarship that your daughter

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Speaker 2: can have just like your son from the past.

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Speaker 1: But also it's about resources and facilities, right that you

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Speaker 1: have to devote resources, and you have to give women's

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Speaker 1: teams areas to work out and weight rooms just like

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Speaker 1: you do for the men.

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Speaker 2: Right, well, exactly, locker room size should be the same.

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Speaker 2: Now we'll say this you and I not born yesterday.

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Speaker 2: It doesn't happen everywhere, and most schools are not in

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Speaker 2: compliance with Title nine even now. But one of the

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Speaker 2: three prongs of being able to follow the law is

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Speaker 2: actually that you're showing you're working towards compliance. Now, if

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Speaker 2: this happened with another law, you'd say what kind of

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Speaker 2: law is that?

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Speaker 1: Right?

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Speaker 2: But in this case, Title nine has been very forgiving

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Speaker 2: for those athletic departments.

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Speaker 1: How did Title nine directly impact? Caitlin Clark?

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Speaker 2: So you have this, as I said, it's a law,

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Speaker 2: for sure, and it's a law that is still working

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Speaker 2: its way through in terms of being followed. And of

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Speaker 2: course you throw anil the money that is now being paid,

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Speaker 2: and that's not equal at all. But there's the other

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Speaker 2: part of it that I mentioned a moment ago mindset,

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Speaker 2: the nation's mindset that it was acceptable for girls and

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Speaker 2: women to play sports when you and I were growing up,

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Speaker 2: you and Arlington me in the suburbs of Toledo. If

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Speaker 2: our moms and dads drove buy a field and there

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Speaker 2: was a girl on that field, the odds are that

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Speaker 2: she was there telling your brother it was time to

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Speaker 2: come home for dinner. I mean, what was that girl

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Speaker 2: doing on a sports field? Now, people driving through those neighborhoods,

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Speaker 2: do you even have a second clance, third glance if

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Speaker 2: you see a whole team of girls playing soccer or

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Speaker 2: lacrosse or you know, running, you know through the neighborhood.

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Speaker 2: Of course not. That's the mindset thing that I'm talking about,

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Speaker 2: the sense that we not only expect it, we want

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Speaker 2: our daughters, our nieces, our granddaughters to be doing this. Right.

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Speaker 1: So, really it was the attitude shift that came with

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Speaker 1: Title nine that created the environment for someone like Caitlin

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Speaker 1: Clark to really thrive.

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Speaker 2: Exactly because now and also I think another key part

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Speaker 2: of this, and I say this in the book, so

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Speaker 2: nineteen seventy two and Kaylen Clark doesn't come along till

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Speaker 2: two thousand and two, so it's a long time. So

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Speaker 2: thirty years, basically thirty years there's stepping stones in the

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Speaker 2: history of women's sports. You and I both know Billy

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Speaker 2: jan King very well. So when we're still kids in

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Speaker 2: our respective homes nineteen seventy three, September of seventy three,

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Speaker 2: Billy Jean beats Bobby Riggs a very big deal, right,

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Speaker 2: especially for empowering, for girls growing up. You move on

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Speaker 2: to say, the Atlanta Olympics in nineteen ninety six, I

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Speaker 2: think you were probably there. I was, yes, for a

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Speaker 2: certain network doing great work. I was there as well.

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Speaker 2: You're watching the Women's Olympics, where everything is about the

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Speaker 2: great female athletes. Moving ahead three years later, the nineteen

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Speaker 2: ninety nine Women's World Cup, the soccer tournament, and of

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Speaker 2: course you've got you know, Brandy Chastain and Nicole and

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Speaker 2: you know, whipping her shirt over her head and yeah,

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Speaker 2: all of that and so that to me, that was

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Speaker 2: forty million viewers on TV. It was July tenth of

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Speaker 2: nineteen ninety nine, and it was over ninety thousand people

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Speaker 2: in the Rose Bowl. Rose Bowl, of course, well known

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Speaker 2: as a great college football facility, packed to the rafters,

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Speaker 2: to the gills. I guess there's no rafters in the

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Speaker 2: Rose Bowl, but packed to whatever, to the top row

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Speaker 2: for women's soccer in this country in nineteen ninety nine,

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Speaker 2: a revelation. I'm going to give you a trivia note

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Speaker 2: for your next cocktail party. Name the one story in

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Speaker 2: the history of stories that made the cover of Time, Newsweek, People,

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Speaker 2: and Sports Illustrated the same week. I've obviously given it away.

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Speaker 1: The World Cup.

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Speaker 2: Yes, Brandy Chastain and the teammates.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but I'll never forget that shot of Brandy, you know,

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Speaker 1: kneeling on the field in her.

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Speaker 2: Sports bra right right, because she'd taken her shirt off

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Speaker 2: and the people thought, oh, she's probably trying to sell

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Speaker 2: the sports bra. No, no, no. She watched men's soccer for

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Speaker 2: years because she had no women's soccer to watch growing up.

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Speaker 2: And she's born in nineteen sixty eight, so she's, you know,

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Speaker 2: coming along at that time. The title nine is really exploding,

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Speaker 2: and so she's watching European men'sawa what do they do

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Speaker 2: when they have an important goal? They take off their

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Speaker 2: shirt and they whip it over the head. So she said,

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Speaker 2: that's what she did, which we of course loved Brandy

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Speaker 2: for that. So anyway, that's happening. The nation has just

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Speaker 2: fallen in love again with what it is created. And

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Speaker 2: then two and a half years later, a little girl

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Speaker 2: is born in Des Moines, Iowa, and we have no

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Speaker 2: idea who she is, and she's the one in terms

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Speaker 2: of team sports that comes along at the exact right

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Speaker 2: time as our nation is just loving everything that we

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Speaker 2: have created.

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Speaker 1: Christine as I mentioned you spent six weeks on the road.

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Speaker 1: Were you able to actually sit down and do an

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Speaker 1: interview with Caitlin Clark, because at one point I know

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Speaker 1: this was being called an unauthorized biography.

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Speaker 2: Yes, it is an unauthorized biography, and still it still is.

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Speaker 2: And you know that can sound ominous. It couldn't be

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Speaker 2: further from the truth. It's unauthorized because I wanted it

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Speaker 2: to be journalistic. If it's an authorized book, you're then

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Speaker 2: working with the person, right And I want to continue

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Speaker 2: to cover these stories. And I am continuing to cover

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Speaker 2: the stories involving Kaitlin Clark, women's sports, the Olympics, everything

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Speaker 2: else that I cover. And if I had been in

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Speaker 2: business with Kaitlyn Clark, I couldn't cover for again.

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Speaker 1: I mean, but having said that, did she sit down

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Speaker 1: with you and did you have a long conversation or

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Speaker 1: did you just capture moments?

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Speaker 2: More capturing moments I asked her probably about fifty questions.

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Speaker 1: Well that's the lot.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, not bad. I think. You know, it's funny as

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Speaker 2: you look back on actually writing the book, I think

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Speaker 2: I probably used about one third of her quotes and comments,

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Speaker 2: So I had so much because she is you know,

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Speaker 2: she's a great talker, and she goes on and on

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Speaker 2: and she answers a question, then she'll go off on

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Speaker 2: a tangent that you care very very much about.

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Speaker 1: So did you sit down with her, Christine, or did

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Speaker 1: you just kind of grab her during quiet moments?

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Speaker 2: Well, what happened was press availabilities, which often involved just

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Speaker 2: a few reporters. I could ask her anything, no holds barred,

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Speaker 2: nothing was off limits, of course, I mean that would

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Speaker 2: never I would never agree to anything like that. Ask

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Speaker 2: her tough questions, ask her, you know, literally anything. For example,

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Speaker 2: after she liked the Taylor Swift post that was, of

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Speaker 2: course Taylor Swift endorsing Kamala Harris. The next day I

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Speaker 2: was in DC, and then that next morning I flooded

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Speaker 2: Indy for that game. Often she'll have three times of

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Speaker 2: press availabilities during a day morning shoot around, and then

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Speaker 2: before the game and after the game. And so in

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Speaker 2: this case it was I of course wanted to ask

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Speaker 2: her about the liking of that Taylor Swift post, because,

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Speaker 2: as you and others might remember, not only was that

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Speaker 2: a big deal, but within a few minutes on x

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Speaker 2: and other social media, a news story and other things

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Speaker 2: came out about who liked the post, and it was

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Speaker 2: Oprah Winfrey, and it was Kylie Kelsey and Jennifer Aniston

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Speaker 2: and Caitlyn Clark. So she's a celebrity now being in

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Speaker 2: the news about liking the post, and so of course

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Speaker 2: I asked her. And I started out in a friendly

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Speaker 2: way because this is sports and she is twenty two,

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Speaker 2: and I've been known to ask a lot of tough

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Speaker 2: questions and get people occasionally mad at me over the years,

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Speaker 2: and that's part of being a journals as you know well,

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Speaker 2: and that's you know, whether people like you or not,

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Speaker 2: you're doing your job. But I started out by saying,

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Speaker 2: as you know, you'd like to post that got a

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Speaker 2: lot of attention last night, big smile, And I said,

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Speaker 2: I'm just curious what Taylor Swift's post meant to you,

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Speaker 2: and are you potentially endorsing Kamala Harris for president? And

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Speaker 2: Caitlin Clark answered the first part in about a minute

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Speaker 2: answer and then did not answer the second part, and

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Speaker 2: I think that's probably a smart move by her. But

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Speaker 2: going back to your question, she and I did meet

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Speaker 2: and have a one on one, but that was basically

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Speaker 2: just a first meeting off the record, which was lovely.

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Speaker 2: And then I also was in some practices where no

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Speaker 2: other journalists were, and of course had plenty of time

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Speaker 2: to talk to all kinds of people, her friends, her coaches,

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Speaker 2: in depth interviews to get those stories that she might

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Speaker 2: not tell. She never said no comment, she never said

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Speaker 2: I don't want to talk about this. I can't thank

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Speaker 2: her enough for spending the time, and that was usually

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Speaker 2: again just around the team settings, because it was because

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Speaker 2: with the deal, you know, the book deal, and then boom,

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Speaker 2: now I'm writing this book quite quickly.

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Speaker 1: Right well, tell us a little bit about her childhood, Christine,

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Speaker 1: because she sounds like she was a true multi hyphen

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Speaker 1: it when it comes to sports. She played soccer, basketball.

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Speaker 1: She was also National Honors Society presidential Honor role. Give

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Speaker 1: us just a glimpse into her family life, her parents,

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Speaker 1: her siblings, and how this young woman was really formed

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Speaker 1: and created.

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Speaker 2: If you will, you know she was formed and created

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Speaker 2: on a basketball court or a soccer field or a

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Speaker 2: golf course by a mom and dad who loved sports

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Speaker 2: and had sports in their lives, big brother and a

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Speaker 2: little brother. And of course the big brother was very

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Speaker 2: helpful in terms of kind of toughening her up, and

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Speaker 2: she started playing basketball. She wanted to play at age five,

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Speaker 2: and there were no girls leagues for her, so her

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Speaker 2: dad was coaching a boys league and she started playing

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Speaker 2: against the boys. And when I spent a lot of

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Speaker 2: time talking to her, AAU coach, a man named Dixon Jensen,

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Speaker 2: who was fantastic, coached her all the way through on

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Speaker 2: the club level, not the high school level. What he

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Speaker 2: said was that time she spent playing against the boys,

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Speaker 2: which she went far longer, Katie, than most girls do.

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Speaker 2: You know, after a while, most of the girls kind

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Speaker 2: of fall away and go play against the girls, which

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Speaker 2: is what we want. You know, the boys are getting

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Speaker 2: a little stronger, a little tougher. Caitlyn stayed till like,

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Speaker 2: you know, fifth sixth grade, she was playing against the boys,

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Speaker 2: and as Dixon Jensen said, it was perfect for her

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Speaker 2: because the boys are a little tougher, a little stronger,

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Speaker 2: and I love this when he said this, a little meaner,

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Speaker 2: and Caitlyn was learning to play against them. And there

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Speaker 2: was one player who's ended up playing for the Iowa

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Speaker 2: men's basketball team who in second grade, his team lost

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Speaker 2: to Caitlyn's team, and he said even do all girls

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Speaker 2: play basketball like this?

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Speaker 1: You know?

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Speaker 2: He was like, my gosh, is this what all girls

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Speaker 2: are like? And obviously she was born for this.

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Speaker 1: I was going to ask, did her parents and siblings

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Speaker 1: and community and friends realize she was preternaturally talented right away?

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Speaker 1: Or was it something that they sort of discovered when

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Speaker 1: she was in high school? You know? What separated her

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Speaker 1: from a really good basketball player who enjoyed the game

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Speaker 1: to somebody who was next level?

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Speaker 2: You know? She says now she has says, I hate

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Speaker 2: to lose. I hate to lose. I want to win everything.

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Speaker 2: I want to be the best. So I think what

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Speaker 2: we're looking at here is someone who, at the youngest

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Speaker 2: age knew what she loved, knew she was good at it,

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Speaker 2: really good at it, tall enough and big enough. The

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Speaker 2: sport that she was actually excellent at early on in

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Speaker 2: high school was soccer, and she was scoring goals like crazy.

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Speaker 2: And she said she learned through soccer with the angles,

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Speaker 2: the passing angles, because so much about soccer was passing, right,

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Speaker 2: it's not scoring. But she gave up soccer because now

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Speaker 2: her basketball career is taking off. There's these younger teams

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Speaker 2: that go internationally in play. So she made those USA teams.

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Speaker 2: So now she's away, you know, overseas playing basketball. But

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Speaker 2: again I go back to the nation saying, this is

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Speaker 2: the moment, right, There's not a soul on earth who's

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Speaker 2: telling her no. Right, which girls growing up our age

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Speaker 2: got it all the time, and what a shame? What

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Speaker 2: were we thinking? But also now go back to the kitchen,

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Speaker 2: go back to mom and dad with their dad, a

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Speaker 2: two sport athlete in D three. Her mother's father, the grandfather,

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Speaker 2: was a legendary high school football coach at the same

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Speaker 2: high school that Caitlin went to. You've got the older

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Speaker 2: brother who's playing sports, played football at Iowa State.

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Speaker 1: So really in their blood. And did you get a

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Speaker 1: chance to talk to her parents when you were writing

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Speaker 1: this book?

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Speaker 2: I met both mom and dad, but they preferred not

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Speaker 2: to talk to me anymore about that, which is fine

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Speaker 2: because I had plenty of other material from other people.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, be interesting to talk to them at some point

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Speaker 1: to really do a profile of them.

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Speaker 2: I would love to do that. And as I said

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Speaker 2: to them in the private conversations I had with both

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Speaker 2: of them, I looked at them and I said, what

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Speaker 2: an amazing daughter you have raised.

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Speaker 1: Not only as an apple Fleet, but as the person

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Speaker 1: in terms of the way she's handled herself. What if

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Speaker 1: there were a way to reduce cancer deaths by half

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Speaker 1: in the next twenty five years. What if it were

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Speaker 1: the future our children, our loved ones, our world could

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Speaker 1: actually wake up to. This is the future Exact Sciences

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00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:28,080
Speaker 1: works toward every day, but they believe it's possible. Exact

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Speaker 1: Sciences is a dedicated team of cancer fighters united by

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Speaker 1: a purpose to help eradicate cancer by preventing it, detecting

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Speaker 1: it earlier, and guiding personalized treatment. They bring together the

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Speaker 1: best and visionary thinking and scientific rigor to create tests,

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Speaker 1: including COLIGUARD and anchotype DX that inspire life changing action.

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Speaker 1: Visit exactsciences dot com to learn more. I know you

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Speaker 1: start the book with watching Caitlin play for the first time.

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Speaker 1: Tell us about that experience.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'm on my iPad in my kitchen in Northwest DC,

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Speaker 2: and I was watching the Indiana Iowa women's basketball game

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Speaker 2: February of twenty twenty three, and I was actually watching

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Speaker 2: the game to watch the Indiana team, which was ranked

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Speaker 2: second in the country. Because all my siblings went to

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Speaker 2: Indiana University, I went to Northwestern and this team is great,

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Speaker 2: So I'm just kind of keeping an eye on the

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Speaker 2: game and I was losing and last inbound, you know,

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Speaker 2: second half left, and the ball goes to Caitlin Clark

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Speaker 2: and everyone knows it's going to Kaitlin Clark, and she's

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Speaker 2: kind of sideways and one legs this way and the

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Speaker 2: other legs this way, as we've come to realize and

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Speaker 2: know what it looks like. And she's just throwing that

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Speaker 2: ball up and it goes in and she just runs

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Speaker 2: off the court and goes crazy and everyone's following her around.

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Speaker 1: They win the game by one.

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Speaker 2: Point exactly, and you know what it was. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I've covered a lot and have you know, seen pretty

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Speaker 2: amazing sports feeds as you have at the Olympics and

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Speaker 2: other places. And I have to say that I kind

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Speaker 2: of watched the replan. I watched the replay again.

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Speaker 1: And what was it?

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Speaker 2: And this really helped me understand the nation's fascination with her, Katie.

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Speaker 2: To be honest with you, you realize you just kind of

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Speaker 2: you can't take your eyes off of her. Have we

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Speaker 2: seen a female athlete who is really a high wire act? Right?

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Speaker 2: Sports and athletic for sure, but really an entertainer, and

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Speaker 2: I've felt very lucky at that moment to have this

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Speaker 2: experience of kind of just wandering into watching this finale

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Speaker 2: and in this incredible shot, and they do win the game.

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Speaker 2: And then of course, within a few weeks she's now

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Speaker 2: going to the Final four, and they're upsetting South Carolina,

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Speaker 2: and now she's taking an Iowa team that was not

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Speaker 2: expected to do anything all the way to the final game,

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Speaker 2: and now the nation is just kind of falling in

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Speaker 2: love with this athlete that you're watching. I understand that,

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Speaker 2: and I think that's helped inform me and understand what

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Speaker 2: people might be thinking, because I kind of went through

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Speaker 2: it at that moment in my kitchen.

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Speaker 1: There was a confluence of factors that allowed Caitlin's career

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Speaker 1: to skyrocket. One was nil name, image, likeness, you said quote.

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Speaker 1: By the time Clark was done with college, she reportedly

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Speaker 1: had at least eleven NIL deals worth more than three million,

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Speaker 1: including TV commercials such as her ubiquitous State Farm spots

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Speaker 1: that made her even more recognizable. What did these brand deals,

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Speaker 1: What impact did they have on her celebrity and really

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Speaker 1: on the entire WNBA.

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Speaker 2: If you think back to athletes a generation ago. At

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Speaker 2: college athletes, you know, you'd be watching them and then

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Speaker 2: they go off your TV or you'd go to the

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Speaker 2: game and then whatever, they disappear. Right, they're not hanging

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Speaker 2: around from you know, one minute to the net. The

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Speaker 2: thing that always hit me about Kaitlin Clark. She's playing

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Speaker 2: in this game and she's probably doing something pretty crazy

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Speaker 2: and amazing. Then it goes to a commercial, and if

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Speaker 2: it's a State Farm commercial, now she's there, like literally

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Speaker 2: two or three seconds after you just watched her in

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Speaker 2: the game. They've gone to a timeout, and now she's

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Speaker 2: in her uniform standing there may well be the exact

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Speaker 2: same uniform, and it's like there she is, there, she is,

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Speaker 2: She never leaves. She is a part of our culture.

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Speaker 2: She's not just an athlete on the court. She is

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Speaker 2: now a pitch woman. She's selling products, she is forging

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Speaker 2: her path in a whole new way.

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Speaker 1: She's part of the culture and not just through her sports.

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Speaker 2: And once you've crossed over, you know, we've got quite

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Speaker 2: a few athletes over the years that have done that,

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Speaker 2: certainly Serena and Venus and Serena especially right the way

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Speaker 2: she's done that, I mean, some own biles Katie Ledecki,

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Speaker 2: any number of quarterbacks, running backs, baseball players, etc. But

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Speaker 2: when we're talking about that, of the hundreds of the

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Speaker 2: thousands of athletes who have graced us with their presence,

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Speaker 2: you know, and been cheered in stadiums around the country,

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Speaker 2: it is still the very few that then crossover and

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Speaker 2: are part of the culture. And here's Caitlyn Clark doing it.

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Speaker 2: And to the point you're making about nil, she's doing

433
00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:19,399
Speaker 2: it while she's still in college.

434
00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:22,920
Speaker 1: There has been a lot of discussion, as you know, Christine,

435
00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:26,040
Speaker 1: and here we are two white ladies discussing this about

436
00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:30,879
Speaker 1: the rural race has played in the ascendants of Caitlyn Clark.

437
00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:35,840
Speaker 1: Angel Reese. The star at LSU has often been pitted

438
00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:39,640
Speaker 1: against Caitlyn Clark being cast sort of in her view

439
00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:43,200
Speaker 1: as the villain role in the media and by the public,

440
00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:47,080
Speaker 1: and she has said that hasn't been easy. She also

441
00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:50,720
Speaker 1: said quote all year I was critiqued about who I was.

442
00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:52,919
Speaker 1: I don't fit the narrative. I don't fit in the

443
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:55,840
Speaker 1: box that y'all want me to be in. I'm too hood,

444
00:23:56,280 --> 00:24:01,400
Speaker 1: I'm too ghetto. So I'm curious about the fact that

445
00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:06,240
Speaker 1: Caitlin Clark has been so celebrated, and in some ways,

446
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:10,080
Speaker 1: Angel Reese has been so criticized.

447
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:13,280
Speaker 2: Oh, without a doubt. Now, part of it is rivalries,

448
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:17,080
Speaker 2: right in sports. I mean Red Sox, Yankees, Michigan, Ohio State.

449
00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:19,320
Speaker 1: This is more than that. When you're talking about the

450
00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:22,679
Speaker 1: Yankees and the Red Sox, it's not really about the

451
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:26,560
Speaker 1: racial no, no, no, it's really about the region, right, without

452
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:27,000
Speaker 1: a doubt.

453
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:30,040
Speaker 2: And no, what I'm saying is everyone's looking for a rivalry, right,

454
00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:32,240
Speaker 2: That's a fact. The quote you just read is in

455
00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:36,040
Speaker 2: the book, and I make a very strong effort to

456
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:39,600
Speaker 2: obviously quote Angel throughout and in fact, I tried, I

457
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:43,000
Speaker 2: think about three times with Angel's people to get her

458
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:44,640
Speaker 2: to talk to me for the book, and she did

459
00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:47,000
Speaker 2: not want to do that, and that was a disappointment

460
00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:49,679
Speaker 2: because I wanted her voice more. I wanted to be

461
00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:51,800
Speaker 2: able to ask her some things, but that was, of

462
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:55,760
Speaker 2: course her choice. What happens with Angel is that final game,

463
00:24:56,320 --> 00:25:00,879
Speaker 2: LSU wins, Big Iowa loses. Angel is the national Caitlin

464
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:04,280
Speaker 2: is not. Near the end of the game, Angel was

465
00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:07,720
Speaker 2: following Caitlyn around and putting her hand in front of

466
00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:11,320
Speaker 2: her face, mimicking something that Caitlyn had done a week

467
00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:14,680
Speaker 2: or so earlier. Everyone thought it was to an opponent.

468
00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:18,119
Speaker 2: Turns out that was wrong. The opponent even said that

469
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:21,359
Speaker 2: it was to Caitlin's bench. So something that kind of

470
00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:24,159
Speaker 2: got going and became quite a thing, a meme and

471
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:27,919
Speaker 2: everything else. Turns out the genesis of it was wrong.

472
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:32,680
Speaker 2: Caitlyn was not mocking an opponent by doing the John Sanna,

473
00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:36,080
Speaker 2: you can't see anything. She was sending it to her bench.

474
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:39,320
Speaker 2: So Angel picks it up as something that Caitlyn was

475
00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:42,800
Speaker 2: doing to an opponent. So Angel does it to Caitlin.

476
00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:45,800
Speaker 2: She also made sure to point to her ring finger

477
00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:48,560
Speaker 2: where her ring was going to go, and of course

478
00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:52,600
Speaker 2: everything explodes from there. There was a positive in all this.

479
00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:55,359
Speaker 2: People were talking about women's sports in a way we

480
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:58,920
Speaker 2: haven't in a long time. That's the positive. The negative,

481
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:00,760
Speaker 2: as we have now come to see, and as you're

482
00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:04,399
Speaker 2: alluding to with your questions, is how this all of

483
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:08,240
Speaker 2: a sudden became racial, pitting people against each other in

484
00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:11,200
Speaker 2: are very polarized society, and there's a lot of hate

485
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:14,960
Speaker 2: and a lot of negativity. And I think it's important

486
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:17,440
Speaker 2: in the book when I quote Angel, I did ask

487
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:19,879
Speaker 2: one question at a press conference where she says, you know,

488
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:23,719
Speaker 2: I don't hate Caitlin, and Caitlyn says I don't hate Angel,

489
00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:27,879
Speaker 2: and so this world around them have created a rivalry.

490
00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:31,200
Speaker 2: And then you throw in race, and you throw in

491
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:35,560
Speaker 2: quote unquote taunting, which is something that happens in all sports,

492
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 2: and Caitlyn certainly can throw it back at people. Caitlyn

493
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:40,880
Speaker 2: is not a saint out there. She's not the mother

494
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:43,560
Speaker 2: Teresa out on the court. I mean she's also throwing

495
00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:45,840
Speaker 2: it back at people as well. But this is how

496
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:46,520
Speaker 2: this started.

497
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:50,000
Speaker 1: It seems to me that whenever this happens and women

498
00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:55,119
Speaker 1: are involved, it becomes so exaggerated. You know, this desire

499
00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:59,280
Speaker 1: to create these so called cat fights. Right where I

500
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:03,680
Speaker 1: think it meant we're doing this, or male athletes were

501
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:07,200
Speaker 1: engaging in this kind of taunting or activity or whatever,

502
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:10,399
Speaker 1: it would be sort of part for the course. But

503
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:13,240
Speaker 1: I feel like when it's women, it's just put under

504
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:17,080
Speaker 1: this microscope. Do you think that's true, Oh, certainly that's

505
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:17,520
Speaker 1: the case.

506
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:19,639
Speaker 2: But then there's a flip side, which is people are

507
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:22,200
Speaker 2: paying attention and the microscope is.

508
00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:26,280
Speaker 1: There well, and you think all publicity is good publicity, No,

509
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:29,560
Speaker 1: not all necessarily, But in this case, here's how I'll

510
00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:30,040
Speaker 1: frame it.

511
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:33,040
Speaker 2: Angel wins, and I mean it is crystal clear. Angel's

512
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 2: the defending champion, Caitlin loses. You've got doctor Jill Biden

513
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:38,720
Speaker 2: then saying well, we want Kaitlin in Iowa to come

514
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:41,600
Speaker 2: to the White House too, And of course Angel reeson

515
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:44,720
Speaker 2: analyis you. They're furious about that, and then even Caitlin

516
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:46,600
Speaker 2: Clark says, no, We're not going to the White House.

517
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:46,880
Speaker 1: You know.

518
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 2: So there was a lot going on, right, There's a

519
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:53,879
Speaker 2: lot going on. Absolutely there is a racial component to

520
00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:57,320
Speaker 2: all of it. I am absolutely aware of that as

521
00:27:57,320 --> 00:27:59,480
Speaker 2: a journalist. You are aware of that. As a journalist,

522
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:02,720
Speaker 2: would be foolish and not doing our jobs to not

523
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:07,000
Speaker 2: realize that. Right, But what you've also got is a

524
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:11,880
Speaker 2: story about again going into the mainstream, crossing over out

525
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:15,600
Speaker 2: of sports. That is a positive. That night, I'm on

526
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:18,399
Speaker 2: CNN and again talking about it. And the real kicker

527
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 2: was Thursday of the Masters. I'm now down at Augusta

528
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:23,960
Speaker 2: National Tiger Woods is teeing off? Am I at the

529
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:26,880
Speaker 2: first tea? No, I'm not. I am doing another TV

530
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:30,679
Speaker 2: hit on my laptop. What am I talking about? Angel

531
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:34,199
Speaker 2: Reese and Caitlin Clark? There is an element to this

532
00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:38,880
Speaker 2: that is good because if you have been wanting coverage

533
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:42,200
Speaker 2: for women's sports, which I certainly have worked my career

534
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:44,920
Speaker 2: for in the addition to covering obviously many men's sports,

535
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:48,000
Speaker 2: this is a moment that you'd say, good, people are

536
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:51,760
Speaker 2: discussing this and talking about it. And when Caitlyn passes

537
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 2: the ball in the All Star Game to Angel and

538
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:57,240
Speaker 2: Angel makes the shot and that's an assist, and the

539
00:28:57,240 --> 00:28:59,920
Speaker 2: place goes crazy, and the announcers say, this is what

540
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:03,040
Speaker 2: you've been waiting for, and they slap palms on the

541
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:06,120
Speaker 2: way down. All right, now, there's a little moment that

542
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 2: shows you they respect each other as athletes and as people.

543
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 2: And I truly believe that's the way Caitlin Clark looks

544
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:16,080
Speaker 2: at Angel Reese, and that's the way Angel Reese also

545
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:17,120
Speaker 2: looks at Kaitlin Clark.

546
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:21,680
Speaker 1: I think one of the things that has exacerbated this

547
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 1: dynamic is the fact that the WNBA is historically and

548
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 1: overwhelmingly black seventy four percent of players or black or

549
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 1: mix race. Last year, there was a huge backlash from

550
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 1: the WNBA Players Association when you asked Dja Carrington whether

551
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:39,760
Speaker 1: or not she pote Caitlin Clark in the eye, and

552
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:43,320
Speaker 1: the statement they said, quote that's so called interview in

553
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:45,960
Speaker 1: the name of journalism was a blatant attempt to bet

554
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:50,200
Speaker 1: a professional athlete into participating into a narrative that is

555
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:54,520
Speaker 1: false and designed to fuel racist, homophobic, and misogynistic vitriol

556
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 1: on social media. Why do you think that question was

557
00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:02,600
Speaker 1: so provocative for Carrington and the rest of the team.

558
00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:05,400
Speaker 2: That certainly was a very important moment. First things first,

559
00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:07,640
Speaker 2: the seventy four percent is something obviously that I worked

560
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:10,280
Speaker 2: to make sure I got that exactly right. And I

561
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:12,960
Speaker 2: have a whole chapter, as you know, on the foundation

562
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:15,600
Speaker 2: of the WNBA, which by the way, I covered way

563
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:18,320
Speaker 2: back when. And you know, this is a league that

564
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 2: is known as a black league. A sizable portion of

565
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 2: the women are gay. I deal with all that in

566
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 2: the book. I want to deal with that in the book,

567
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 2: and I think it helps people understand frankly, where we

568
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 2: are now. This is a league that is again seventy

569
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 2: four percent black league. And now you've got this white

570
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:38,960
Speaker 2: woman from Iowa coming in and being the superstar.

571
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 1: If I were a black player, that would bug the

572
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:43,680
Speaker 1: shit out of me. It's only natural that people would

573
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:44,280
Speaker 1: feel that way.

574
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:48,040
Speaker 2: Exactly. And this is the failure of the WNBA leadership.

575
00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:49,560
Speaker 2: And this is a big part of the book, as

576
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:53,320
Speaker 2: you know that how on earth can you not see

577
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:56,760
Speaker 2: all of junior year of Caitlin Clark, the crowds senior

578
00:30:56,880 --> 00:31:00,440
Speaker 2: year people standing in line in January and February for

579
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:03,960
Speaker 2: hours waiting to get into Big Tan arenas, eighteen twenty

580
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 2: thousand packed to the rafters to see this woman and

581
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 2: not go. You know what, maybe we should talk to

582
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 2: our athletes about this, Maybe we should prepare them, Katie.

583
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:15,480
Speaker 2: Not because they're damsels in distress.

584
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:16,320
Speaker 1: They are not.

585
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:20,160
Speaker 2: They are terrific, strong, fabulous women who've gone through a lot,

586
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 2: and our great athletes and have reached the pinnacle of

587
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:26,360
Speaker 2: their sport, women who I praise in the book and

588
00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:29,400
Speaker 2: my columns in USA Today. How they fought for Britney

589
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:31,840
Speaker 2: Grinder to get her back from Russia. I don't think

590
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:35,080
Speaker 2: there's ever been a finer moment in professional sports history

591
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 2: in the United States than what the WNBA players did

592
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:41,600
Speaker 2: to get Britney Grinder back fighting for her. When we

593
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:44,680
Speaker 2: think of twenty sixteen, Black Lives Matter, we think of

594
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 2: Colin Kaepernick. Right a full month before Colin Kaepernick took

595
00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:52,800
Speaker 2: a knee and made headlines the Minnesota Links, who, by

596
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:56,360
Speaker 2: the way, young Caitlin Clark's favorite team, the Minnesota Links.

597
00:31:56,400 --> 00:32:00,760
Speaker 2: Their players started the protesting of the order of several

598
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:04,760
Speaker 2: black men, and that was again in July of twenty sixteen,

599
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 2: and the other WNBA teams followed suit. So the WNBA

600
00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:12,800
Speaker 2: was a month ahead of Colin Kaepernick. Yet people in

601
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:16,240
Speaker 2: our culture would never know. That shows you how little

602
00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:20,280
Speaker 2: coverage they got and how you can understand how wait

603
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:21,240
Speaker 2: a minute, what about us.

604
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:24,160
Speaker 1: How frustrating it for them. In fact, you write about

605
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:27,480
Speaker 1: Brittany Griner, and you wrote in USA today, if this

606
00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:30,640
Speaker 1: were a male athlete, not a female athlete, people would

607
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:33,280
Speaker 1: care a lot more about this story. If say Lebron

608
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:37,440
Speaker 1: James or Tom Brady were being held hostage by Vladimir Putin,

609
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:41,480
Speaker 1: well they wouldn't be hostages anymore. They'd be home because

610
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:44,640
Speaker 1: America would have demanded it right away. It was a

611
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:47,360
Speaker 1: valid point. Not that either James or Brady ever would

612
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:49,160
Speaker 1: have been in the position of having to leave their

613
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:52,000
Speaker 1: country to make a good living playing their sport as

614
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:55,160
Speaker 1: Griner did. Griner received more publicity and coverage for being

615
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:58,480
Speaker 1: in prison in Russia than for her then thirteen years

616
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:02,960
Speaker 1: as one of the biggest stars in this basketball It's unbelievable.

617
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:05,240
Speaker 2: The lack of coverage, the lack of attention, the lack

618
00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:07,520
Speaker 2: of respect that these women got.

619
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:10,680
Speaker 1: The lack of resources, the lack of salary. Right even

620
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:13,560
Speaker 1: if you look at what Caitlin Clark was making when

621
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:17,880
Speaker 1: she was drafted compared to the male basketball players.

622
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 2: Right, seventy six thousand to fifty seven million, right, I

623
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:25,120
Speaker 2: know it's not even close. Yes, So about the DJJ

624
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:29,320
Speaker 2: Carrington questions, I asked a question and a follow up. Obviously,

625
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:32,760
Speaker 2: the Players Association was very upset with me and wanted

626
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:33,360
Speaker 2: to ban me.

627
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:36,440
Speaker 1: Well, it seemed like you were pushing the narrative of

628
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:39,720
Speaker 1: a rivalry to me with those questions. To Christine, I

629
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 1: have to be honest, you know, so let me ask

630
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:42,120
Speaker 1: you this.

631
00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:45,000
Speaker 2: So, those are the kind of questions that I've asked

632
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:49,600
Speaker 2: Tiger Woods and Michael Phelps and hundreds of male athletes.

633
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:54,640
Speaker 2: So are we saying that we cannot ask women the

634
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 2: same kind of questions we would ask men? In twenty

635
00:33:57,480 --> 00:33:58,000
Speaker 2: twenty four?

636
00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:01,160
Speaker 1: Point taken were the two questions?

637
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 2: Yeah? Oh sure, so I asked it when she went

638
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:06,080
Speaker 2: to DJA Carrington and obviously this is a group of

639
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:10,720
Speaker 2: us around her. This story was just exploding on social

640
00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:16,960
Speaker 2: media and so many criticizing DJA Carrington for with Kaitlyn

641
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:20,279
Speaker 2: Clark in Game one of the playoffs where she's kind

642
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:22,920
Speaker 2: of swatting at the ball. Caitlyn it turns out is passing,

643
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:27,520
Speaker 2: not shooting. Her fingers end up right in Caitlyn Clark's eye.

644
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:32,040
Speaker 2: And she's been accused, being accused of things, She's being denigrated,

645
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:36,879
Speaker 2: she's being criticized. Carrington Carrington is when people are saying

646
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:39,239
Speaker 2: she did this on purpose? How dare you do this

647
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 2: to Kaitlin Clark, Katie, There is only one thing for

648
00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:48,400
Speaker 2: a journalist to do. Ask a straight question, direct question,

649
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:53,160
Speaker 2: exactly purpose right, because that allows the athlete to hit

650
00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:55,520
Speaker 2: it out of the park. Maybe this is another failing

651
00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 2: of the WNBA to not have prepared its players for

652
00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:01,000
Speaker 2: national scrutiny, which is a shame, But they haven't had

653
00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 2: much national scrutiny, so most athletes know you can hit

654
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:08,880
Speaker 2: that out of the park either way, yes or no.

655
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:12,239
Speaker 2: Could you describe what happened? That question is certainly the

656
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:16,600
Speaker 2: most analyzed question I've ever asked, and that's fine. Again,

657
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:19,520
Speaker 2: that's totally fine. I would ask that question of any

658
00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:24,560
Speaker 2: NFL player, of any Olympian. I'm not comparing the issues.

659
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:28,000
Speaker 2: But young Michael Phelps at age nineteen, his agent had

660
00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:31,920
Speaker 2: me talk to him for forty five minutes about his DUI. Again,

661
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:35,640
Speaker 2: I am not comparing DUI with the fingers right whatever,

662
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:39,280
Speaker 2: not at all. Forty five minutes Michael Phelps answered questions

663
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:43,200
Speaker 2: from me like tough questions. We're not their pr people,

664
00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:46,400
Speaker 2: as you would know well, and maybe they have not

665
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:50,840
Speaker 2: been used to scrutiny. But with Caitlin Clark's arrival comes

666
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:54,520
Speaker 2: national scrutiny. And again the failing of the league to

667
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:57,960
Speaker 2: prepare the players for the moment is truly one of

668
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:01,880
Speaker 2: the stories of this particular era in the WNBA. It

669
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:04,400
Speaker 2: is such a huge failure. I think it's important to

670
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:07,160
Speaker 2: say I don't frame every question based on what people

671
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:10,560
Speaker 2: on social media are asking. Of course not, but when

672
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:14,120
Speaker 2: you see the magnitude of the coverage and the concern

673
00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:18,040
Speaker 2: about these issues. Again, if I'm the player's agent, which

674
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:21,319
Speaker 2: I am not, I'm saying you want these questions so

675
00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:25,520
Speaker 2: that you can finally equivocally answer them and put the

676
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:28,759
Speaker 2: issue to bed. Obviously that's not how Dijne Carrington and

677
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:32,120
Speaker 2: the Players Association saw it, But I thought I was

678
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:34,400
Speaker 2: giving them the respect that they deserve.

679
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:36,920
Speaker 1: And a chance to really explain exactly.

680
00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:41,360
Speaker 2: And again, I think it's all stems from the WNBA

681
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:44,319
Speaker 2: not preparing these players for what might be coming when

682
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:52,480
Speaker 2: you get national scrutiny.

683
00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:54,680
Speaker 1: If you want to get smarter every morning with a

684
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:57,960
Speaker 1: breakdown of the news and fascinating takes on health and

685
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:01,360
Speaker 1: wellness and pop culture, when not for our daily newsletter

686
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:13,560
Speaker 1: wake Up Call by going to Katiecuric dot com. How

687
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:16,760
Speaker 1: problematic was it, Christine that you were writing a book

688
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:21,520
Speaker 1: about Caitlin Clark while you were covering the WNBA, Because

689
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:24,279
Speaker 1: I read a quote by a former editor of The

690
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:28,200
Speaker 1: Athletic and The Washington Post. You asked him to talk

691
00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:30,560
Speaker 1: to you for the book and he said he didn't

692
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:34,479
Speaker 1: want to, and he claimed your coverage had gone way

693
00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:38,520
Speaker 1: beyond what is normal. He said, the way she's covering Clark.

694
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:41,880
Speaker 1: I'm sure you've seen this, Christine. You're asking is she

695
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:46,759
Speaker 1: Caitlyn Clark's PR agent? So I'm curious about how you

696
00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:51,799
Speaker 1: tried to balance covering the league while you're writing a

697
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:54,760
Speaker 1: book on Caitlyn Clark, and I think as a result,

698
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:57,880
Speaker 1: it gave people the impression the only thing you cared

699
00:37:57,920 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 1: about was Caitlin Clark.

700
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:03,280
Speaker 2: So many books have been written by sports journalists about

701
00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:05,920
Speaker 2: Tom Brady, what have you, And I don't think anyone

702
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:08,760
Speaker 2: has ever complained that those journalists have been asking questions

703
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:12,600
Speaker 2: about Tom Brady. In other words, for some reason, it

704
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:16,440
Speaker 2: bothered people tremendously that I was asking questions about Caitlin Clark.

705
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:19,520
Speaker 1: Now, I think because they felt like you were ignoring

706
00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:23,320
Speaker 1: other players or the bigger picture of the WNBA.

707
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:26,200
Speaker 2: Right, And of course I'm probably the only one still

708
00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:29,479
Speaker 2: standing who was covering the WNBA in nineteen ninety nine,

709
00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:31,840
Speaker 2: so I certainly haven't ignored it over the years. This

710
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:34,799
Speaker 2: notion that I only focused on Caitlin Clark, are only

711
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:38,759
Speaker 2: talked to athletes about Caitlin Clark is ridiculous. In that

712
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:41,800
Speaker 2: same story that you were referring to by a journalist

713
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:43,720
Speaker 2: who I've talked to quite a bit, who I support

714
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:47,319
Speaker 2: and want to do well, he interviewed someone about my

715
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:50,960
Speaker 2: questions who could have been around me only three times

716
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:57,320
Speaker 2: out of about twenty games. This journalist, this young broadcaster, Sure,

717
00:38:57,400 --> 00:38:59,080
Speaker 2: go ahead, and do it. But how could that person

718
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:02,480
Speaker 2: know the questions I asked. It was surprising to me

719
00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:06,120
Speaker 2: that they felt this way because I've been around dozens

720
00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:09,360
Speaker 2: of my colleagues, are colleagues friends writing books who have

721
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:15,000
Speaker 2: focused entirely on one athlete, and no one cared at all,

722
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:19,640
Speaker 2: No one was upset. What was it about this book

723
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:23,799
Speaker 2: that got everyone so upset? My guess is that they

724
00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:27,839
Speaker 2: think I was working with Caitlin, which I wasn't. And

725
00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:29,560
Speaker 2: of course, by the way, the notion that I'm a

726
00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:31,920
Speaker 2: fan or that I'm pro Caitlin. There are things in

727
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:35,000
Speaker 2: this book, as you know, that obviously show Caitlin, and

728
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:38,200
Speaker 2: you know with her behavior on the court that maybe

729
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:40,719
Speaker 2: she won't like. Obviously she's not read the book. She

730
00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:43,239
Speaker 2: has no editorial control, which again is the beauty of

731
00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:46,520
Speaker 2: a journalistic look at someone. My way of reporting this

732
00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 2: was the same way I've done for my entire career.

733
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:51,920
Speaker 2: But that must be it, because it's kind of a

734
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:54,520
Speaker 2: logical thing that someone might be writing a book about

735
00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:55,320
Speaker 2: Caitlin Clark.

736
00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:58,960
Speaker 1: That was an interesting way to look at it, because

737
00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:03,560
Speaker 1: you talk about coverage of Tiger Woods and the fact

738
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:08,520
Speaker 1: that you wrote so many stories about him and that

739
00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:12,120
Speaker 1: you weren't writing about all the other golfers, and that

740
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:16,160
Speaker 1: was because of his talent, his skill, his charisma, and

741
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:18,360
Speaker 1: how much attention he had brought to that game.

742
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:21,319
Speaker 2: I would have been not doing my job if I

743
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:24,040
Speaker 2: was focusing on someone who finished tenth in the golf tournament.

744
00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:26,640
Speaker 2: I think you can make a very strong case again

745
00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:29,439
Speaker 2: the book deal, yes, But even before the book deal,

746
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:33,520
Speaker 2: I wrote maybe three or four columns, including the Olympic snob.

747
00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:36,479
Speaker 2: I broke that news, the charter flight story. I broke

748
00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:41,120
Speaker 2: that news. News is news when someone is in the headlines,

749
00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:44,000
Speaker 2: when someone is creating news, when someone is getting these

750
00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:48,560
Speaker 2: TV ratings. As a journalist, what would you want someone

751
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:51,839
Speaker 2: to do? I would love to talk to them. I

752
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:54,480
Speaker 2: love the two way street. If they want to tell me,

753
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:56,000
Speaker 2: they can, they can call me any time.

754
00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:59,800
Speaker 1: I know that you feel strongly, Christine, that are rising

755
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:04,720
Speaker 1: tide lifts all boats, and you feel like Caitlin Clark

756
00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:09,240
Speaker 1: is a rising tide. Do you believe she has lifted

757
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:13,280
Speaker 1: all boats? And how has she done that? In your review?

758
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:16,759
Speaker 2: It's a great question. I think she is and can be.

759
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:19,719
Speaker 2: For example, you look at what's going on with the

760
00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:22,719
Speaker 2: Indiana fever, so This is, of of course her team.

761
00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:26,880
Speaker 2: It is with the Indiana Pacers, much more established, been

762
00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:29,360
Speaker 2: around for years, much more money, as we've just talked about,

763
00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:34,040
Speaker 2: and in Indiana people are crazy about the entire team.

764
00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:38,759
Speaker 2: Caitlin Clark cannot do every appearance, right, she cannot go

765
00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:42,319
Speaker 2: to every gas station and every supermarket. Well guess what

766
00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:46,719
Speaker 2: her teammates go. And they are getting obviously some kind

767
00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:50,000
Speaker 2: of an honorarium. They are getting the opportunity to see

768
00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:53,680
Speaker 2: the fans, their names are out there, they're getting all

769
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:58,080
Speaker 2: kinds of potential deals. Players want to come and play

770
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:01,680
Speaker 2: for Indiana. I mean we're seeing that. We're seeing players

771
00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:03,799
Speaker 2: who were competitive with her last year, like don't want

772
00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:06,400
Speaker 2: to Bonner having a year contract now with the Indiana

773
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:09,400
Speaker 2: Fever after being in Connecticut. So I think, I mean,

774
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:12,080
Speaker 2: there's a perfect example locally within her team.

775
00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:15,440
Speaker 1: What about within the WNBA. What do you think she's

776
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:17,240
Speaker 1: done for the entire league?

777
00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:20,960
Speaker 2: When you've got TV ratings through the roof as never before,

778
00:42:21,719 --> 00:42:27,359
Speaker 2: when you've got attendance that's literally again historic. Clearly, that's

779
00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:29,520
Speaker 2: more money in the bank, right, that's more money in

780
00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:32,560
Speaker 2: the owner's pocket. At least they've got the collective bargaining

781
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:35,080
Speaker 2: agreement that is now up and they're going to have that.

782
00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:37,600
Speaker 2: There is no doubt that the players will be getting

783
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:42,080
Speaker 2: bigger salaries because of the wonderful, very rosy and sunny

784
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:46,279
Speaker 2: economic forecast, because of the new TV deals, which is

785
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:48,960
Speaker 2: four times what they had before. All of this is

786
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:52,879
Speaker 2: because of the Caitlin Clark effect. Perfect example, here, you've

787
00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:55,200
Speaker 2: got Sheila Johnson, who I've known for a long time.

788
00:42:55,239 --> 00:42:57,440
Speaker 2: You probably know she I know she yeah, yes, yeah,

789
00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:00,360
Speaker 2: I mean we're friends and you know see here at events,

790
00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:03,799
Speaker 2: and Sheila is the owner of the Washington Mystics. The

791
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:06,560
Speaker 2: Mystics play in a four thy, two hundred seed arena.

792
00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:09,959
Speaker 2: When Caitlin and the fever came, they moved those games,

793
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:13,399
Speaker 2: Sheila Johnson did to Capital One Arena, where they had

794
00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:18,960
Speaker 2: over twenty thousand, including the record regular season crowd, biggest

795
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:23,839
Speaker 2: crowd in WNBA history twenty thousand, seven hundred eleven in September,

796
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:28,040
Speaker 2: all because of one person, Caitlin Clark. So that is

797
00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:30,480
Speaker 2: I think at least probably what a million dollars each

798
00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:34,080
Speaker 2: game right to the Mystics. So that's clearly a positive

799
00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:38,040
Speaker 2: for the team and for Sheila Johnson. Sheila Johnson then,

800
00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:41,279
Speaker 2: of course is the person who quizzically, I'd love to

801
00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:44,239
Speaker 2: speak to her about it. She then goes on CNN

802
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:48,440
Speaker 2: and is upset that Caitlin Clark won the Time Athlete

803
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:50,680
Speaker 2: of the Year award and said it should have been

804
00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:54,480
Speaker 2: the League of the Year and that something clicked, but

805
00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:58,439
Speaker 2: didn't think that Caitlyn deserved the credit. I would love

806
00:43:58,520 --> 00:44:01,279
Speaker 2: to know the impetus, love to know the mindset. I'd

807
00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:03,719
Speaker 2: love to know what she's thinking. Again, going back to

808
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:06,319
Speaker 2: the things we talked about before, we don't know the

809
00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:10,200
Speaker 2: life that Sheila lived, right, a black woman, incredible leader,

810
00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:14,960
Speaker 2: lovely person, great role model. Everything about Shila and I

811
00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:16,920
Speaker 2: gave her gosh. I tried five or six times to

812
00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:19,480
Speaker 2: ask her those questions, which is what we do, right

813
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:22,120
Speaker 2: we are journalists trying to figure things out.

814
00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:26,120
Speaker 1: I guess I would ask you, does Caitlin Clark to

815
00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:30,759
Speaker 1: serve all the credit for the rise and popularity of

816
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:34,440
Speaker 1: the WNBA. For example, the New York Liberty. You know,

817
00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:37,800
Speaker 1: I'm going to New York Liberty games. My daughter really

818
00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:40,719
Speaker 1: loves the Liberty. Caitlin Clark has absolutely nothing to do

819
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:43,960
Speaker 1: with the New York Liberty, and I think some people

820
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:48,840
Speaker 1: would argue that the WNBA is growing more popular because

821
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:53,800
Speaker 1: people are appreciating all the players, So is it fair

822
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:56,560
Speaker 1: to give all the credit to Caitlin Clark?

823
00:44:56,719 --> 00:45:00,880
Speaker 2: Obviously not all the credit. Proportionality is yes, oh totally.

824
00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:03,880
Speaker 2: I mean, the New York Liberty have an incredible fan based,

825
00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:08,080
Speaker 2: incredible success story. Obviously the defending champions. But during the

826
00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:10,560
Speaker 2: regular season, twenty one of the twenty four games that

827
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:14,279
Speaker 2: were over a million viewership involved Caitlin Clark and the

828
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:18,200
Speaker 2: Indiana Fever. There's three that weren't right. I think it

829
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:23,239
Speaker 2: is undeniable that this woman is the most important and

830
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:26,719
Speaker 2: best thing to ever happen to women's basketball. Katie. I'm

831
00:45:26,719 --> 00:45:29,319
Speaker 2: gonna say something that I actually hadn't thought of till

832
00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:32,719
Speaker 2: basically right now. I wish she wasn't. I wish it

833
00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:37,480
Speaker 2: had been all those incredible, fabulous women that we covered

834
00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:40,440
Speaker 2: at the Atlanta Olympics. I wish the nation had been

835
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:43,319
Speaker 2: ready for it then, or had wanted it then, or

836
00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:46,880
Speaker 2: whatever racist feelings people had. It would have been great

837
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:50,400
Speaker 2: if it had happened. Maya Moore is a perfect example.

838
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:53,360
Speaker 2: Maya Moore is won the greats of all time. She

839
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:55,520
Speaker 2: got nowhere near the attention. We went out. If we

840
00:45:55,520 --> 00:45:58,160
Speaker 2: walked on the street right now and said found ten

841
00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:00,680
Speaker 2: people said name a women's basketball player. We're in New York,

842
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:05,200
Speaker 2: so we may get some Stewie's and some Sabrinas.

843
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:05,960
Speaker 1: Right, hopefully we would.

844
00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:08,000
Speaker 2: Maybe we'd get a lot of them, but I guarantee

845
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:10,239
Speaker 2: we'd probably get a few Caitlin Clarks. But we would

846
00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:14,120
Speaker 2: get no Maya Moores, right, I mean talking about Maya

847
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:18,279
Speaker 2: Moors like talking about you know, Babe Ruth lou Gerigg.

848
00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:20,239
Speaker 1: Right, I mean Michael George, but.

849
00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:22,359
Speaker 2: I mean one of the greats. But we wouldn't get that.

850
00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:25,920
Speaker 2: The nation, and Casey Wasserman, the LA Olympic twenty twenty

851
00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:29,279
Speaker 2: eight chair, even said this, we weren't ready for it

852
00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:32,160
Speaker 2: for some reason. So we're ready now. And that's why

853
00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:37,440
Speaker 2: I spend several chapters talking about Title nine Iowa and

854
00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:41,200
Speaker 2: this launching pad that this young woman had. So it's

855
00:46:41,239 --> 00:46:44,239
Speaker 2: not just her alone by any means, it's the nation

856
00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:47,400
Speaker 2: being ready for it. As we discussed earlier. I wish

857
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:50,560
Speaker 2: it was twenty years ago. I thought those battles, but

858
00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:53,959
Speaker 2: we weren't there. Now we're here and this is all

859
00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:56,800
Speaker 2: opened up nationally because of her.

860
00:46:57,120 --> 00:47:00,239
Speaker 1: And has given you the opportunity to not only a

861
00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:05,480
Speaker 1: book about Caitlin Clark, but satisfy the interests that now

862
00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:10,440
Speaker 1: people everywhere will have in women's professional basketball.

863
00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:15,400
Speaker 2: Well, exactly, you've correctly, of course, asked me about things

864
00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:18,200
Speaker 2: that are so important journalistically right and so important in

865
00:47:18,200 --> 00:47:20,839
Speaker 2: our country. I don't have all the answers on these things.

866
00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:23,320
Speaker 2: You don't have all the answers right. As a journalist,

867
00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:25,440
Speaker 2: you lay it out there, and that's certainly what I

868
00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:28,280
Speaker 2: do in this book and trying to have the voices

869
00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:31,960
Speaker 2: to give people the best view that I could in

870
00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:33,959
Speaker 2: like writing it in like four or five months, which

871
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:36,880
Speaker 2: was kind of crazy, but I did it. To have

872
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:40,600
Speaker 2: this book out now, this is an extraordinary time, and

873
00:47:40,680 --> 00:47:44,200
Speaker 2: you know, I hate to see the vitriol, the racism

874
00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:46,080
Speaker 2: and all the things that were out there on social media.

875
00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:48,640
Speaker 2: How on earth did the WNBA not see this coming?

876
00:47:49,160 --> 00:47:52,840
Speaker 2: In the NBA, which owns what sixty percent of the WNBA,

877
00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:55,719
Speaker 2: have them be a part of this to prepare these

878
00:47:55,760 --> 00:47:58,720
Speaker 2: fabulous athletes for what was coming, the way that NFL

879
00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:01,319
Speaker 2: players have understood for you years, the way that Major

880
00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:04,319
Speaker 2: League Baseball. This is new for women's sports. It's not

881
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:07,840
Speaker 2: a bad thing, but it required leadership, and unfortunately that

882
00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:12,040
Speaker 2: leadership failed the players over and over again as Caitlin

883
00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:13,400
Speaker 2: Clark was coming in the league.

884
00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:17,160
Speaker 1: Well, it's a fascinating read and she is really so

885
00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:19,880
Speaker 1: much fun to watch, as are a lot of the

886
00:48:19,920 --> 00:48:22,960
Speaker 1: other players. And I'm so glad that you came to

887
00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:25,080
Speaker 1: talk to me about this book, Christine.

888
00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:27,719
Speaker 2: Thank you, Katie anything anytime. We've talked about a lot

889
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:30,879
Speaker 2: over the years. Yeah, I'm thrilled to be chatting about

890
00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:31,400
Speaker 2: And I'm.

891
00:48:31,239 --> 00:48:33,520
Speaker 1: Sure it wasn't easy for you to be the focal

892
00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:36,040
Speaker 1: point of some of these stories. As a journalist, you

893
00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:39,000
Speaker 1: never really want to be the story. You want your

894
00:48:39,040 --> 00:48:41,960
Speaker 1: subject to be the story. But you know, she's an

895
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:44,839
Speaker 1: incredible athlete and it's going to be fun to see

896
00:48:44,840 --> 00:48:46,319
Speaker 1: what she does in the future too.

897
00:48:46,719 --> 00:48:50,080
Speaker 2: But as that spotlight shines on Caitlyn Clark, it shines

898
00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:53,439
Speaker 2: on all these players. People who never cared are now

899
00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:55,800
Speaker 2: looking at all the other players and are seeing and

900
00:48:55,840 --> 00:48:58,080
Speaker 2: appreciating them for the first time. That is a huge

901
00:48:58,120 --> 00:49:00,640
Speaker 2: positive one of the many positives about Kaitlin Clark.

902
00:49:06,680 --> 00:49:09,920
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening everyone. If you have a question for me,

903
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Speaker 1: a subject you want us to cover, or you want

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906
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Speaker 1: love to hear from you. Next Question is a production

907
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Speaker 1: of iHeartMedia and Katie Couric Media. The executive producers are Me,

908
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Speaker 1: Katie Kuric, and Courtney Ltz. Our supervising producer is Ryan Martz,

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Speaker 1: and our producers are Adriana Fazzio and Meredith Barnes. Julian

910
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