1 00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:04,000 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you missed in History Class from housetof 2 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:14,440 Speaker 1: works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Deblin, 3 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:17,119 Speaker 1: a chalk reparding and I'm fair Dowdy, and we're just 4 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:19,880 Speaker 1: steering up for our long Labor Day weekend. But by 5 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:22,600 Speaker 1: the time this episode airs, that will already have passed 6 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:25,720 Speaker 1: and a labor related memorial should have been unveiled in 7 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:29,440 Speaker 1: a town called Ottawa, Illinois. And the memorial, which was 8 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:32,800 Speaker 1: unveiled Friday, September two, is a statue of a woman 9 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 1: holding flowers in one hand and paint brushes in the other, 10 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:38,920 Speaker 1: and it's meant to symbolize the women who worked for 11 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:42,920 Speaker 1: the Ottawa based Luminous Processes factory and there they painted 12 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:45,879 Speaker 1: watch and clock dials in the early tent twentieth century. 13 00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:49,000 Speaker 1: And they were women who ended up getting serious radiation 14 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:52,080 Speaker 1: poisoning as a result of their jobs. And I'm not 15 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 1: sure how much national media attention this memorial and it's 16 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:58,279 Speaker 1: unveiling are going to receive. It was conceived of by 17 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 1: a young lady named Madeline Pillar, who actually came up 18 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:05,360 Speaker 1: with this idea for the memorial after doing a junior 19 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:08,960 Speaker 1: high history project. How about that, Yeah, her dad is 20 00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:11,320 Speaker 1: a sculptor, and she did this project and kind of 21 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:13,560 Speaker 1: couldn't get this woman out of her head and proposed 22 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:15,240 Speaker 1: the idea of doing a memorial to them, and they 23 00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:18,280 Speaker 1: raised all this money. But we're not sure. I haven't 24 00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:20,360 Speaker 1: seen that many news stories about it. I just randomly 25 00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 1: kind of stumbled upon it. But the story of the 26 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:25,080 Speaker 1: women who came to be known as the Radium Girls 27 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:28,200 Speaker 1: actually became a media sensation in the nineties and the 28 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:31,840 Speaker 1: nineteen thirties. Yeah, they certainly deserve a monument. And it 29 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:35,520 Speaker 1: wasn't just an Illinois based story either, because workers at 30 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:39,280 Speaker 1: factories in Connecticut and New Jersey were really in the 31 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:42,119 Speaker 1: same boat. In fact, it was a story coming out 32 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:46,319 Speaker 1: of New Jersey that first brought this issue, this radium 33 00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:49,559 Speaker 1: poisoning issue, to the public's attention in the first place. 34 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 1: And that's the story that we're going to focus on 35 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:55,440 Speaker 1: today in the podcast. And we're gonna just sort of 36 00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:59,560 Speaker 1: take a look at the historical circumstances and working conditions 37 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:02,800 Speaker 1: that d to these women getting radiation poisoning in the 38 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:06,240 Speaker 1: first place, because you're probably gonna wonder pretty quickly how 39 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:08,760 Speaker 1: something like this could happen. Yeah, and we're also going 40 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:10,600 Speaker 1: to take a look at how they came to be 41 00:02:10,639 --> 00:02:13,480 Speaker 1: known as the Radium Girls and their struggle for justice 42 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:15,960 Speaker 1: that led to some workplace reforms in the end, so 43 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:17,800 Speaker 1: kind of try to put a positive spin on what 44 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:21,360 Speaker 1: is ultimately a very sad story. But before we can 45 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:23,440 Speaker 1: talk about the Radium Girls, we need to take a 46 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:25,640 Speaker 1: closer look at the element that's at the heart of 47 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:28,680 Speaker 1: their story, and that is, of course radium, literally the 48 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 1: element very good, punned bliness. So we're going to be 49 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:34,400 Speaker 1: talking about radium, of course, but that also gives us 50 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:37,600 Speaker 1: the chance to talk about one of our most frequently 51 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:42,639 Speaker 1: requested podcast subjects, Polish born scientists and Nobel Prize winner 52 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:46,639 Speaker 1: Marie Curie. And this isn't a podcast on her, it's 53 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:49,160 Speaker 1: not a profile on her, but she is an important 54 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:54,000 Speaker 1: character in it, mostly because she discovered radium in eight 55 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:58,040 Speaker 1: and radioactivity was still pretty new at that time. It 56 00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:02,160 Speaker 1: was not well understood. The German and physicists Wilhelm Konrad 57 00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:06,040 Speaker 1: ren Gen had just discovered X rays back in and 58 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:09,760 Speaker 1: just a few weeks after that discovery and rebekr l 59 00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:15,320 Speaker 1: had identified radioactivity during experiments with uranium salts. So when 60 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:17,880 Speaker 1: Marie Carey made her discovery. All of this stuff was 61 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:20,720 Speaker 1: kind of floating around and kind of new science, and 62 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:23,560 Speaker 1: people were really fascinated by it, and Jerry was one 63 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:26,400 Speaker 1: of them. She was really fascinated, especially by Beckerel's findings, 64 00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 1: because not that much attention were given to them at 65 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 1: the time. So she started experimenting with pitch blend, which 66 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 1: was which is a shiny tar like byproduct of mining. 67 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:39,600 Speaker 1: That eventually led she and her husband Pierre to isolate 68 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 1: two new chemical elements, polonium and the one we're focusing 69 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:47,440 Speaker 1: on today, which is radium. It was radioactive, it seemed 70 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 1: to pulse with spontaneous energy, and the other cool thing 71 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:53,280 Speaker 1: about radium was that it glowed in the dark. Yeah, 72 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:55,840 Speaker 1: that certainly seemed to be a selling point for it, 73 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 1: as we'll see. But by this time people had started 74 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:02,680 Speaker 1: to realize that even though radiation was invisible, it did 75 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:07,000 Speaker 1: have strong powers. They could cause injury. Scientists were exposed 76 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 1: to enlarge doses and they suffered from skin burns and 77 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:13,920 Speaker 1: hair loss, so clearly this element could do something. But 78 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:19,160 Speaker 1: this also cluded physicians into the possibilities that radiation held 79 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:23,719 Speaker 1: for treating cancer. Something that's powerful could potentially fight something 80 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:25,800 Speaker 1: that was hurting people as well as burn them or 81 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:30,000 Speaker 1: injure them. Yeah, So it was that potential and along 82 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:33,240 Speaker 1: with those kind of magical glowy properties that it had 83 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:36,960 Speaker 1: that gave it this reputation as a wonder substance. Pretty 84 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:39,720 Speaker 1: much from the get go, people thought it could cure 85 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 1: everything from arthritis to diabetes, not just cancer, and an 86 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:48,040 Speaker 1: entire radium industry grew out of that belief. Some form 87 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:50,880 Speaker 1: of the word radium was actually incorporated into a lot 88 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:54,160 Speaker 1: of brand names, whether the products actually contained radium or not. 89 00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:57,280 Speaker 1: That was funny, Yeah, but a lot of products had 90 00:04:57,400 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 1: radium added in them, including toothpaste, hair tonic bath salts, lotions, 91 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 1: heating pads, and male pouches. Explain, do you know what 92 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:09,680 Speaker 1: a male pouches? Now? Because you told me, but it's 93 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:13,640 Speaker 1: it's your job to tell listeners. They were condoms. So 94 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 1: those also contained radium or some radium, but radium or 95 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:20,400 Speaker 1: raid on laced water was probably one of the most 96 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:23,799 Speaker 1: widely touted products, and it was called liquid Sunshine because 97 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:26,479 Speaker 1: people thought that this was some sort of magical elixir 98 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:29,760 Speaker 1: that could like extend your youth and make you healthy. 99 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:33,440 Speaker 1: And one brand in particular was called Rata thor. You 100 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:35,360 Speaker 1: read about this a lot. It was a popular brand 101 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:37,919 Speaker 1: of radioactive water and doctors would give it to patients 102 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:41,080 Speaker 1: as a tonic. Really doesn't sound good. It doesn't sound 103 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:43,160 Speaker 1: good to us now, but maybe it would have back then. 104 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:45,160 Speaker 1: I don't know. And you and I were talking about it. 105 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 1: It makes you kind of concerned, what are we drinking 106 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:52,600 Speaker 1: or consuming now that will sound as horrible and ridiculous 107 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:56,920 Speaker 1: as radium laced tonic in the future. I mean, gosh, yeah, 108 00:05:56,960 --> 00:05:58,919 Speaker 1: I kind of don't want to know. Maybe I should, 109 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:03,240 Speaker 1: but but medium's use went beyond just personal and health products. 110 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 1: To write. In nineteen o two, radium was isolated into 111 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:09,200 Speaker 1: pure metal and Marie Curry was involved with that as well, 112 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:13,839 Speaker 1: And soon after American electrical engineer William J. Hammer created 113 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:17,479 Speaker 1: a radium treated paint which had the trade name Undark, 114 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:20,240 Speaker 1: that when applied to things, would make them glow in 115 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:22,960 Speaker 1: the dark. So this was used on scientific instruments and 116 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:25,479 Speaker 1: things like that. It was expensive to do, but it 117 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:29,080 Speaker 1: became really significant during World War One, especially when people 118 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:32,840 Speaker 1: realize the advantage of applying this to military instruments. You're 119 00:06:32,839 --> 00:06:35,760 Speaker 1: in a dark trench and you can actually read your 120 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:39,240 Speaker 1: watch or read your instruments exactly. So that's where our 121 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:43,039 Speaker 1: story about the radium girls really begins. So, between nineteen 122 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:47,839 Speaker 1: seventeen and nineteen hundreds of young women got jobs applying 123 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:53,280 Speaker 1: radium treated paint too watches, to aircraft controls, clocks, and 124 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:58,400 Speaker 1: compass spaces in factories in states like Illinois and New Jersey, Connecticut. 125 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:03,279 Speaker 1: Even Long Island factories were owned by a big corporation, 126 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:05,880 Speaker 1: even though they were in different parts of the country. 127 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:09,039 Speaker 1: It was the US Radium Corporation. And for the young 128 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:12,400 Speaker 1: women getting these jobs, it seems like a pretty great opportunity, 129 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 1: mostly because it paid a lot better than other factory 130 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 1: jobs at the time, more than three times as much. 131 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:21,240 Speaker 1: It was about eighteen dollars per week instead of five 132 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:24,520 Speaker 1: dollars per week. They got paid about a penny and 133 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:27,000 Speaker 1: a half per dial they painted, and they would paint 134 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:30,840 Speaker 1: about two d fifty dials a day, so a pretty 135 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 1: good job and the work didn't seem too treacherous either, 136 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 1: at least for the time. The women sat together at 137 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:41,640 Speaker 1: these long tables with racks of dials and they would 138 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:45,680 Speaker 1: paint the faces sitting next to them and um mix 139 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:48,960 Speaker 1: up this concoction of glue and water and radium powder 140 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 1: into a glowing greenish white paint and then use their 141 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:56,360 Speaker 1: little camel hair brushes to apply the paint to the 142 00:07:56,440 --> 00:07:59,040 Speaker 1: dial numbers. So it sounds kind of social, kind of 143 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:02,840 Speaker 1: artistic in a way. A pretty nice job. Yeah, as 144 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:05,840 Speaker 1: they were painting these dial numbers, though after a few 145 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:08,960 Speaker 1: strokes the brushes, those camel hair brushes they were using 146 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 1: would lose their shape and the women couldn't paint as accurately. 147 00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:15,720 Speaker 1: So their supervisors had kind of a solution for this. 148 00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:18,280 Speaker 1: They told them to point the brushes with their lips, 149 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:21,200 Speaker 1: and according to an article in the Journal American History, 150 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:24,480 Speaker 1: some women later quoted their bosses as saying, quote, not 151 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:27,040 Speaker 1: to worry if you swallow any radium, it'll make your 152 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:30,360 Speaker 1: cheeks rosy. So Grace Friar was one of seventy young 153 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:32,800 Speaker 1: women who started working at a factory like this an 154 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:37,480 Speaker 1: orange New Jersey in the spring of ninete. Later, about 155 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:40,560 Speaker 1: the brushes, she said, quote, I think I pointed mine 156 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:43,360 Speaker 1: with my lips about six times to every watch dial. 157 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:46,720 Speaker 1: It didn't taste funny, it didn't have any taste, and 158 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:49,600 Speaker 1: I didn't know it was harmful. To add to matters, 159 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:54,040 Speaker 1: the workers really had fun with this, licking the brushes 160 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:56,360 Speaker 1: with the radium on it. They'd paint their nails and 161 00:08:56,400 --> 00:08:59,679 Speaker 1: their teeth to through amuse each other and surprise their 162 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:02,600 Speaker 1: boy friends when the lights would go out. Friar even 163 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:06,720 Speaker 1: remembers that after she'd blow her nose, her handkerchief would 164 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:10,240 Speaker 1: glow in the dark with this radium residue. But they 165 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:12,600 Speaker 1: just all have a good laugh about it, go back 166 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:16,839 Speaker 1: to work, keep licking those brushes and and keep painting. Yeah, 167 00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:19,960 Speaker 1: they didn't have any indication that it was hurting them. 168 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:22,720 Speaker 1: In nineteen twenty, Friar quit the factory to take a 169 00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 1: better job as a bank teller, but only two years 170 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:29,200 Speaker 1: later she started having some major problems. Her teeth started 171 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 1: falling out and she developed painful abscesses in her jaw. 172 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:35,640 Speaker 1: She got X rayed and it showed that she had 173 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:39,200 Speaker 1: such severe bone decay. The many doctors and dennis that 174 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:40,520 Speaker 1: she went to to try to figure out what was 175 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:44,079 Speaker 1: going on, they said that they'd never seen anything like it. 176 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:47,840 Speaker 1: They they've never seen bone decay to that degree. In 177 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:52,079 Speaker 1: July n one doctor finally suggested that her problems might 178 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:54,280 Speaker 1: have been caused by her former job as a dial painter. 179 00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:57,040 Speaker 1: And I think the delay there is is pretty remarkable. 180 00:09:57,080 --> 00:09:59,480 Speaker 1: So when it was nineteen two when she started having 181 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:03,079 Speaker 1: these stempt not till nineteen five when somebody says, this 182 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:06,960 Speaker 1: looks like it's radium poisoning, and it turned out that 183 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:10,559 Speaker 1: Friar wasn't the only former dial maker having issues. I 184 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:12,440 Speaker 1: guess we can just assume that it took that long 185 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:15,560 Speaker 1: for word to spread among the medical community what was 186 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 1: going on. But at the request of the Orange City 187 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:22,319 Speaker 1: Health Department, the National Consumers League, which was an organization 188 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:26,040 Speaker 1: that fought for safe workplaces and reasonable wages and decent 189 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:30,760 Speaker 1: working hours, started an investigation on these suspicious deaths of 190 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:35,320 Speaker 1: four radium factory workers between nineteen two and nineteen twenty four. 191 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:38,640 Speaker 1: So right around that time that Friar is realizing what's 192 00:10:38,679 --> 00:10:42,960 Speaker 1: wrong with her, other people are realizing something's going on here. Yeah. 193 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:46,000 Speaker 1: The cause of death for these other four radium factory 194 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:50,120 Speaker 1: workers was listed as things like phosphorus poisoning, mouth ulcers, 195 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 1: and syphilis. But the factory workers thought that the paint 196 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:56,480 Speaker 1: ingredients did have something to do with it. So New 197 00:10:56,559 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 1: Jersey Consumer League chairman Katherine Wiley alded some experts. She 198 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:03,160 Speaker 1: brought in a statistician, and she went to Harvard and 199 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:05,480 Speaker 1: consulted some people, and she found out when she was 200 00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:07,960 Speaker 1: talking to people at Harvard that a few years earlier, 201 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:12,640 Speaker 1: physiology professor Cecil Drinker had been asked to study the 202 00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:15,920 Speaker 1: working conditions at us Radium and report back to the company. 203 00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:19,200 Speaker 1: So somebody had already been looking into this before it 204 00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:21,880 Speaker 1: even came to their attention, and Drinker found out that 205 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:25,439 Speaker 1: pretty much the entire workforce that US Radium was contaminated. 206 00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:29,080 Speaker 1: They had strange blood conditions, and several workers had advanced 207 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:33,200 Speaker 1: radium necrosis. So Drinker made suggestions at that point, and 208 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:36,520 Speaker 1: as of June, I think that's when his report came out, 209 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:39,640 Speaker 1: and he suggested that they make changes that would protect 210 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:42,600 Speaker 1: the workers. But Arthur Rhoder, who was president of us 211 00:11:42,679 --> 00:11:45,680 Speaker 1: Radium at the time, he resisted this, and furthermore, he 212 00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:49,000 Speaker 1: refused to give drink Or permission to publish his findings, 213 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:52,360 Speaker 1: saying that Drinker had agreed to confidentiality and that he 214 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:55,840 Speaker 1: wasn't allowed to. So it actually turned out later they 215 00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:59,200 Speaker 1: found out that Rhodor had been circulating a false report 216 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:01,280 Speaker 1: under Drinkers and him. It was basically his report, but 217 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:04,280 Speaker 1: it said, oh, there's no harm here, there's no problem 218 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:07,640 Speaker 1: with the radium that's used in the paint, and why 219 00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:10,520 Speaker 1: he didn't want a drinker to publish the real report exactly. 220 00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:13,440 Speaker 1: But to be honest, Drinker's report wasn't the only thing 221 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:16,280 Speaker 1: out there that indicated that radium was a hazard. There 222 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:19,360 Speaker 1: were There was also scientific and medical literature, some of 223 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:21,760 Speaker 1: the dating back as far as nineteen o six that 224 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:25,480 Speaker 1: contained plenty of information about the hazards of radium, even 225 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:28,439 Speaker 1: one of US Radium's own publications, And that's the part 226 00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:32,280 Speaker 1: I think is really surprising. It was distributed to hospitals 227 00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:35,360 Speaker 1: and doctor's offices, and it contained a section with dozens 228 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:40,800 Speaker 1: of references. This report was called Radium Dangers dash Injurious Effects, 229 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:42,560 Speaker 1: and so it was out there. They knew what was 230 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:45,320 Speaker 1: going on the entire time, from the same company encouraging 231 00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:48,560 Speaker 1: their workers to moisten their brushes. Yeah, and too, I 232 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:50,880 Speaker 1: guess to be fair, we don't know that the supervisors 233 00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:53,800 Speaker 1: on the floor actually knew that there were dangers, but 234 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:56,480 Speaker 1: it became pretty clear that company at the whole did, though, 235 00:12:56,679 --> 00:13:01,520 Speaker 1: so the consumer leagues wildly try. I had to get 236 00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:04,480 Speaker 1: US Radium to pay for the medical expenses for Friar 237 00:13:04,559 --> 00:13:06,440 Speaker 1: and for the other workers who were ill. But the 238 00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:10,760 Speaker 1: company insisted that radium was not to blame, and it 239 00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:15,160 Speaker 1: went beyond that though, and launched this campaign of misinformation. 240 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:19,000 Speaker 1: They tried to tarnish the women workers reputations by saying 241 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:22,280 Speaker 1: that the problem wasn't radium, it was actually that they 242 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:27,840 Speaker 1: had syphilis. And in nine when Friar started exploring radium 243 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:31,800 Speaker 1: as a cause for her illness, a Columbia University doctor 244 00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:35,280 Speaker 1: named Frederick Flynn, who said that he was referred to 245 00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:38,959 Speaker 1: her by friends, asked to examine her and he found 246 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:42,240 Speaker 1: her health to be quote as good as my own. Later, though, 247 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:45,120 Speaker 1: Fryar found out that Flynn wasn't even a medical doctor. 248 00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:49,760 Speaker 1: He was an industrial toxicologist on contract with US Radium. 249 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:52,880 Speaker 1: So it became pretty clear that almost from the get 250 00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:57,360 Speaker 1: go US Radium had been acting um shady about covering 251 00:13:57,440 --> 00:14:00,760 Speaker 1: up the effects of the element. Yeah, and we should 252 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:03,199 Speaker 1: say that although Flynn wasn't a doctor, I mean, as 253 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:05,040 Speaker 1: you pointed out earlier, it took a long time for 254 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:08,679 Speaker 1: doctors to kind of you mean, you mentioned catching on 255 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:14,040 Speaker 1: to the fact that these women had had radium with it, right, 256 00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:16,560 Speaker 1: But I think part of it was also that they 257 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:19,280 Speaker 1: didn't want to Radium had so much promise, they didn't 258 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:23,080 Speaker 1: want to admit that maybe this wonder element that they 259 00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:25,440 Speaker 1: had found also had some negative effects because they were 260 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:28,479 Speaker 1: afraid it would keep people from accepting the positive effects 261 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:31,240 Speaker 1: that radium could have and just give it a bad 262 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:35,560 Speaker 1: name eventually. Right, So, Friar did decide to sue US 263 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:38,080 Speaker 1: Radium in nineteen, but it took her two years to 264 00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:40,080 Speaker 1: find an attorney who was willing to take her case. 265 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 1: On May eighteenth, ninety seven, though, Raymond Barry, who was 266 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:47,560 Speaker 1: a young Newark attorney, took the case on contingency and 267 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 1: filed a lawsuit in a New Jersey court on her 268 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:53,240 Speaker 1: behalf and pretty much right away, four other women with 269 00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:57,000 Speaker 1: severe medical problems joined the lawsuit. Their names were Edma Hussman, 270 00:14:57,520 --> 00:15:02,800 Speaker 1: Catherine Shobe, and two sisters also Quentu McDonald and Albina Larisse. 271 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:06,080 Speaker 1: And as the case started to grow into a huge 272 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:09,040 Speaker 1: media sensation, the press in the US and Europe student 273 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:11,640 Speaker 1: dubbed the five women the Radium Girls. So that's where 274 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:14,440 Speaker 1: the name comes from. So the Radium Girls were looking 275 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:18,600 Speaker 1: for two hundred fifty thousand dollars in compensation for medical 276 00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:22,480 Speaker 1: expenses in pain for each of them. But first there 277 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:26,400 Speaker 1: was this legal obstacle in New Jersey's law that they 278 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:29,960 Speaker 1: had to get by. It was two year statute of limitations. 279 00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:33,640 Speaker 1: But the lawyer, Raymond Barry, argued that the statute applied 280 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 1: from the moment the women learned about the source of 281 00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:38,720 Speaker 1: their problems, not from the date they quit working for 282 00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:42,760 Speaker 1: the factory, since, as we've discussed, that took quite some time. 283 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:47,080 Speaker 1: He also said that US Radium's campaign of misinformation was 284 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 1: the reason the women weren't informed in the first place, 285 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:52,760 Speaker 1: and the reason why they didn't take legal action within 286 00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:57,920 Speaker 1: the statute of limitations. So maybe Radium's fake doctor sort 287 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:02,800 Speaker 1: of complicated matters here definitely. While this was going on, though, 288 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:06,120 Speaker 1: medical examiners kept looking into the situation. Medical examiners from 289 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:09,640 Speaker 1: New Jersey and New York. They investigated the suspicious deaths 290 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:12,280 Speaker 1: of the plant workers, and in the process, a deceased 291 00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:15,600 Speaker 1: sister of two of the Radium girls, McDonald and Laurie, 292 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:21,520 Speaker 1: was exhumed on October sixteenth, n Her name was Amelia Maggia, 293 00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:23,800 Speaker 1: and she had also worked at the plant, and her 294 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:27,760 Speaker 1: bones were found to be highly radioactive. Her former dentists 295 00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:30,120 Speaker 1: to tip them off on it. He actually had removed 296 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:32,400 Speaker 1: part of her jaw soon before she died because it 297 00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 1: had deteriorated to that point, and he kind of suspected 298 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:39,680 Speaker 1: that radium poisoning might be part of the issue, radiation poisoning, 299 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:42,280 Speaker 1: and so they exhumed the body and found that he 300 00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:47,480 Speaker 1: was correct. Yeah, So these investigations, the exclamation and all 301 00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:50,560 Speaker 1: of that and the legal maneuverings took up quite a 302 00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:53,280 Speaker 1: bit of time, obviously, And in fact, it took up 303 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:56,560 Speaker 1: so much time that the first hearing didn't take place 304 00:16:56,640 --> 00:17:02,200 Speaker 1: until January, and by that point the women's health had 305 00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:06,080 Speaker 1: really deteriorated. Some of them couldn't even raise their arms 306 00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:10,560 Speaker 1: to take the oath. The two sisters we mentioned where bedridden. 307 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:13,760 Speaker 1: Grace Friar had lost all of her teeth and couldn't 308 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:18,359 Speaker 1: sit up without using a back Braith definitely couldn't walk um. 309 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:23,159 Speaker 1: But the severity of their conditions really affected people in 310 00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:25,679 Speaker 1: the courtroom when they did testify. When those who were 311 00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:28,800 Speaker 1: able to testify, people in the courtroom were said to 312 00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:31,840 Speaker 1: have wept when they when they watched them. Yeah. Just 313 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:35,200 Speaker 1: an example of one of their testimonies, Edna Husband's testimony 314 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:38,840 Speaker 1: included details about her financial troubles, which were caused by 315 00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:41,639 Speaker 1: the medical bills that she had, and she said quote, 316 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:45,119 Speaker 1: I cannot even keep my little house or bungalow. I 317 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:47,159 Speaker 1: know I will not live much longer. For now, I 318 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:50,240 Speaker 1: cannot sleep at night for the pains. So, of course 319 00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:53,520 Speaker 1: everyone was fascinated with the story, and it was everywhere. 320 00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:56,480 Speaker 1: Even Marie Curie heard about it, and she was really 321 00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:59,240 Speaker 1: surprised to learn how the factory workers had been handling 322 00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:02,560 Speaker 1: radium on on the job. Referring to the radium Girl, 323 00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:05,399 Speaker 1: she said, quote, I see no hope for them. My 324 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:08,720 Speaker 1: experiments with radium convinced me that if a poison is taken, 325 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:12,320 Speaker 1: if the poison sorry is taken internally, it is practically 326 00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:16,080 Speaker 1: impossible to destroy it. So, you know, just an aside here. 327 00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:18,520 Speaker 1: Many of you may know this, but Curie herself died 328 00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 1: in nineteen thirty four of complications resulting from long term 329 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:25,480 Speaker 1: radium exposure. Also, but even then, with with Curie saying 330 00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:27,760 Speaker 1: that she saw no hope for them, with the radium 331 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:32,880 Speaker 1: girls visibly deteriorating and public sympathy pouring in US, Radium 332 00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:36,960 Speaker 1: didn't hesitate to try to still delay the legal proceedings 333 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:39,879 Speaker 1: as much as they possibly could, so after a hearing 334 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:44,200 Speaker 1: in April, the judge granted the defense of five month adjournment, 335 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:47,439 Speaker 1: and Barry tried to remind the judge that the women 336 00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:51,720 Speaker 1: might not last those five months, not survive until September, 337 00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:55,080 Speaker 1: and he even found lawyers with cases that we're going 338 00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:56,719 Speaker 1: to be tried in less than a month who were 339 00:18:56,760 --> 00:18:59,720 Speaker 1: willing to switch dates with him, but US Radium as 340 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 1: the refused that that their witnesses were not going to 341 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:06,440 Speaker 1: be ready. They weren't going to be available until that 342 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:09,879 Speaker 1: five month window was was up. Yeah. So what ended 343 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:13,600 Speaker 1: ultimately helping them move the trial up was the power 344 00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:16,320 Speaker 1: of the press, in particular Walter Littman of The New 345 00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:19,399 Speaker 1: York World, and he helped kind of speed things along. 346 00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:21,639 Speaker 1: The New York World was a really influential paper at 347 00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:24,120 Speaker 1: the time, and Littmann had written a number of editorials 348 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:26,800 Speaker 1: about the Radium girls. When he wrote on May tenth 349 00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:30,879 Speaker 1: nine was particularly skating. He called the delay a quote 350 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:34,240 Speaker 1: damnable travesty of justice and said that if ever a 351 00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:37,560 Speaker 1: case called for prompt adjudication, it is the case of 352 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:40,360 Speaker 1: five crippled women who are fighting for a few miserable 353 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:44,399 Speaker 1: dollars to ease their last days on earth, and those editorials, 354 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:47,920 Speaker 1: combined with the public outrage they caused, and the efforts 355 00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:51,040 Speaker 1: of Barry and others altogether helped convince the New Jersey 356 00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 1: court system to change the trial day to early June. 357 00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:58,320 Speaker 1: But just days before the trial, the Radium girls ended 358 00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:02,119 Speaker 1: up settling out of court. They got ten thousand dollars each, 359 00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:05,680 Speaker 1: coverage of their medical expenses, and a six hundred dollar 360 00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:09,560 Speaker 1: annuity until death, So much less than they were hoping 361 00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:12,199 Speaker 1: for in the end. Yeah, but at least it was 362 00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:14,720 Speaker 1: something before they passed away, because some of them did 363 00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:20,000 Speaker 1: start dying from their condition pretty quickly after that. McDonald 364 00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:23,360 Speaker 1: died in nineteen twenty nine at age thirty four, Friar 365 00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:26,879 Speaker 1: died at age thirty four, and Shob died at age 366 00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:30,879 Speaker 1: thirty in nineteen thirty three, and Huffman died in nineteen 367 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:34,320 Speaker 1: thirty nine at age thirty seven. One lived for quite 368 00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:37,879 Speaker 1: some time after Laris, she died in nineteen forty six 369 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:42,040 Speaker 1: at age fifty one. But it's a really sad story 370 00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:45,200 Speaker 1: anyway you look at it, But there is a silver lining. 371 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:48,320 Speaker 1: The reason why we're covering this for labor Day, they 372 00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:53,640 Speaker 1: did make some strides for workers. Industry safety standards were enhanced, 373 00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:56,840 Speaker 1: and the Radium Girls set a precedent in case law 374 00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:00,399 Speaker 1: for the right of individual workers to soothe their lawyers 375 00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:04,199 Speaker 1: for damages caused by labor abuse. And of course it 376 00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:07,200 Speaker 1: made people aware of the dangers of radium. New tolerance 377 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:11,280 Speaker 1: levels were set for workers and for researchers. And as 378 00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:13,720 Speaker 1: for some of the products that we talked about earlier, 379 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:17,320 Speaker 1: the FTC issued a cease and desist order against the 380 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:23,320 Speaker 1: manufacturer of the product Rati thor in tonic liquid Sunshine 381 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:26,399 Speaker 1: exactly that magical elick, sir, And they found that it 382 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:29,359 Speaker 1: contained enough radium to kill the people who drank it regularly. 383 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:32,400 Speaker 1: And of course the Radium Girls are not forgotten. There 384 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:35,920 Speaker 1: have been poems, books, and plays written about them. And 385 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:39,439 Speaker 1: now there's that memorial to that we mentioned earlier in Illinois. 386 00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:42,480 Speaker 1: So so we're speaking from the past. But maybe after 387 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:45,560 Speaker 1: this Labor Day weekend we will go um check out 388 00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:48,880 Speaker 1: photos of the unveiling of the memorial and and hope 389 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:51,520 Speaker 1: that something like this does get a little press for 390 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:55,080 Speaker 1: for Labor Day weekend. Yes, but we're not quite finished 391 00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:58,040 Speaker 1: with labor related topics. We have done a few of 392 00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:01,280 Speaker 1: this year, and one kind of touched on some of 393 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:04,240 Speaker 1: those things. The Leo Frank trial episode, we received a 394 00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:05,720 Speaker 1: lot of mail on, so we want to share some 395 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:11,919 Speaker 1: of that with you in our Listener Male segment. Now. So, 396 00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:13,840 Speaker 1: one of the things we asked of our listeners after 397 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:17,360 Speaker 1: the Leo Frank trial episode is, first of all, if 398 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:20,080 Speaker 1: they had heard of Leo Frank, and if so, then 399 00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:22,240 Speaker 1: how they learned about him. Did they learn about Leo 400 00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:25,520 Speaker 1: Frank in history class? Because Sarah had and I hadn't, 401 00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:27,439 Speaker 1: and she grew up in Georgia and I had not, 402 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:30,840 Speaker 1: So we wondered if it was a totally Georgia's specific story, 403 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:33,479 Speaker 1: and we got back some interesting responses. We got back 404 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:35,719 Speaker 1: a lot of responses, and most people, I think, especially 405 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:38,120 Speaker 1: people who weren't from Georgia's said that they had never 406 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:40,440 Speaker 1: heard of Leo Frank before, or they hadn't learned about 407 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:43,600 Speaker 1: him in class. A few people had heard about him, 408 00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:45,840 Speaker 1: quite a few people, but they heard about him from 409 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:48,800 Speaker 1: kind of a surprising source. And this letter from Grace 410 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:51,360 Speaker 1: that I have here kind of indicates that or tells 411 00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:53,520 Speaker 1: us a little bit more about that. She says, Hey, guys, 412 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:56,159 Speaker 1: I just listened to the podcast on Leo Frank and 413 00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:58,120 Speaker 1: the whole time I wanted to burst out into song. 414 00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:01,720 Speaker 1: Why because our school recently did a production of Parade. 415 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:04,639 Speaker 1: It's a musical about the trial of Leo Frank. Like 416 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:06,920 Speaker 1: you said in the podcast, a lot of historians think 417 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:08,960 Speaker 1: that Leo was innocent and that was the stance. The 418 00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:11,399 Speaker 1: play took two If you ever get a chance to 419 00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:14,879 Speaker 1: see it, it's a great production, written by Jason Robert Brown. Also, 420 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:17,719 Speaker 1: I'm from Melbourne, Australia, and if I hadn't done Parade 421 00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:19,920 Speaker 1: or listened to this podcast, it is very unlikely that 422 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:21,960 Speaker 1: I would have found out about such an interesting piece 423 00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:24,800 Speaker 1: of Georgian history. So we also got some mail about 424 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:28,840 Speaker 1: another artistic interpretation of the Leo Frank story. This one 425 00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:32,240 Speaker 1: is from Marika and she wrote, Hey, ladies, I knew 426 00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:35,959 Speaker 1: about Mary Fagan and Leo Frank, but not from history class. 427 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:38,359 Speaker 1: I learned about the case because I am a Lana 428 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:41,639 Speaker 1: Turner fan. The movie They Won't Forget is considered to 429 00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:44,040 Speaker 1: be one of the best films of the nineteen thirties 430 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:46,920 Speaker 1: and it is based on the Leo Frank case. Lana 431 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:50,280 Speaker 1: Turner plays Mary Clay. The Murdered Girl and it was 432 00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:54,399 Speaker 1: her very first film appearance. Claude Raines and Edward Norris 433 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:57,919 Speaker 1: also star So how about that a Lana Turner movie 434 00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:03,040 Speaker 1: and a musical. So just like the Radium Girls that 435 00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:06,680 Speaker 1: we just talked about, they have some dramatic interpretation. Absolutely. 436 00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:10,200 Speaker 1: So those were some positive responses that we got from 437 00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:13,160 Speaker 1: people um or some neutral responses, and we also got 438 00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:15,480 Speaker 1: a few critical responses of the episode, and we wanted 439 00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:17,560 Speaker 1: to share one of those two that brought up some 440 00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:20,240 Speaker 1: interesting points and and kind of respond to that a 441 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:21,919 Speaker 1: little bit and just put it out there for you 442 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:25,160 Speaker 1: guys to think about. This is from John in Florida, 443 00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:28,280 Speaker 1: and he says, I found the podcast on Leo Frank 444 00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:30,960 Speaker 1: to be disturbing on a few levels. I get that 445 00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:33,320 Speaker 1: this is about a miscarriage of justice, but I don't 446 00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:36,840 Speaker 1: get the Jewish aspect. People are subject to prejudice every 447 00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:39,600 Speaker 1: day all over the world. Once you add the element 448 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:42,480 Speaker 1: of a victim's religion, you separate them from the fabric 449 00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:45,000 Speaker 1: of society and it becomes more about the prejudice than 450 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:48,119 Speaker 1: the injustice. You could not have worked any harder of 451 00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:51,520 Speaker 1: painting a wonderful picture of Leo Frank in reality he 452 00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:54,400 Speaker 1: was engaged in child labor. To say he was using 453 00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:57,240 Speaker 1: children and women for light duty sounds like it is 454 00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:00,520 Speaker 1: from a pr firm for the Frank family. How out Mary? 455 00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:03,280 Speaker 1: What were her working conditions? We did hear a lot 456 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:05,399 Speaker 1: about Frank's degrees and his work as a leader in 457 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:07,840 Speaker 1: the industry. Why did Mary have to get her check 458 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:10,120 Speaker 1: from Frank? Do you have to get your check from 459 00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:12,960 Speaker 1: the founder of how Staff Works? I found this to 460 00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:15,800 Speaker 1: be a one sided and very cold report. I felt 461 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:17,880 Speaker 1: no compassion for Mary, and I felt I was being 462 00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:20,879 Speaker 1: told to feel compassion for Frank. Sorry, but in the 463 00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:23,160 Speaker 1: real world, I do not trust people who hire women 464 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:26,040 Speaker 1: and children to save a few cents. When we see 465 00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:28,159 Speaker 1: this now, we bring it to the media's attention and 466 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:31,240 Speaker 1: boycott the products. Why is Mr Frank excused from this 467 00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:34,040 Speaker 1: kind of inspection because it happened a hundred years ago? 468 00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:38,560 Speaker 1: Exploitation of workers is exploitation of workers. Mary was exploited 469 00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:40,719 Speaker 1: as a worker. Why was she not safe in her 470 00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:43,320 Speaker 1: own workplace? What was the effect of the death on 471 00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:46,480 Speaker 1: her family? Was there prejudice because she was irish? We 472 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:49,280 Speaker 1: did hear about Frank's final request as we get away 473 00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:52,040 Speaker 1: from child labor. We forget the injustice and the abuses 474 00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:55,040 Speaker 1: forced on workers. It took the federal government to step 475 00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:58,119 Speaker 1: in and stop people like Frank from exploiting children. Do 476 00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:00,640 Speaker 1: you really think he had Mary's interest in? Sayfety at heart, 477 00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:03,439 Speaker 1: I love your podcast on history. Please don't let it 478 00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:07,640 Speaker 1: become revisionist history. Thank you. All right, So, obviously there's 479 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:10,720 Speaker 1: a lot to address in this letter, right, definitely, Yeah, 480 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:13,080 Speaker 1: I mean, first, we wanted to start out by saying 481 00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:17,880 Speaker 1: that the podcast, as the title indicates, was to focus 482 00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:20,560 Speaker 1: on the Leo Frank trial, and as John mentioned, it 483 00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:23,640 Speaker 1: was mostly about the miscarriage of justice there, and so 484 00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:29,240 Speaker 1: that's why I think Leo Frank got more more more 485 00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:32,960 Speaker 1: of the focus in in the podcast. And and the 486 00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:38,360 Speaker 1: murder itself is so horrific and unequivocally wrong that kind 487 00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:40,640 Speaker 1: of speaks through itself in a way. Yeah, I mean, 488 00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:43,000 Speaker 1: and I think because Mary was so young and she 489 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:45,720 Speaker 1: was the murder victim, and because of the press of 490 00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:48,200 Speaker 1: the trial has gotten, we really don't know that much 491 00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:50,720 Speaker 1: about her. We know that she was thirteen, that she 492 00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:52,720 Speaker 1: was young, that she was beautiful, that she was a 493 00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:55,440 Speaker 1: sweet girl, she went to church, that she was Catholic, 494 00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:57,679 Speaker 1: I mean, we know all these things about her, that 495 00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:00,080 Speaker 1: she worked in the factory, putting the little eraser is 496 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:02,160 Speaker 1: in the middle case scenes at the end of the pencil. 497 00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:05,719 Speaker 1: That's what she did, but we don't really know that 498 00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:09,800 Speaker 1: much more to answer John's questions well, and consequently her 499 00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:12,520 Speaker 1: story and her role in history, and not just the 500 00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:15,040 Speaker 1: way we've presented it, but the way it is presented 501 00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:18,240 Speaker 1: is as the murder victim, and that's terrible. That's part 502 00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:21,240 Speaker 1: of the injustice of her life, that that's all she 503 00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:24,399 Speaker 1: got to be. Yeah, and that's one reason that we 504 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:27,040 Speaker 1: pointed out exactly how much money she made. You know, 505 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:30,320 Speaker 1: we talked about her collecting a dollar twenty five that week, 506 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:33,760 Speaker 1: and it was our intention by doing that to point 507 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:36,440 Speaker 1: out how very little she died for and how tragic 508 00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:41,480 Speaker 1: her life was and her death. But beyond that, the 509 00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:44,399 Speaker 1: podcast did move into more of a discussion of the 510 00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:47,280 Speaker 1: trial and of Leo Frank and as we indicated at 511 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:50,080 Speaker 1: the end of that episode, more most sources do kind 512 00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:52,920 Speaker 1: of assume that he was not guilty of her murder, 513 00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:55,080 Speaker 1: and so maybe that is why that side of the 514 00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:57,960 Speaker 1: story came through more. But we did try to emphasize 515 00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:01,600 Speaker 1: at the end when we mentioned that he had received 516 00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:05,520 Speaker 1: the posthumous pardon that a lot of people have said 517 00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:09,560 Speaker 1: that this doesn't mean that he is exonerated for the crime. 518 00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:12,280 Speaker 1: Nobody really knows it is. And yeah, no one knows 519 00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:15,320 Speaker 1: what happened to Mary Fagan. And you know, maybe someday 520 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:18,119 Speaker 1: we'll have more information, maybe not, um, but at this 521 00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:20,919 Speaker 1: point we can only give you as much information that 522 00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:23,120 Speaker 1: we have, and we can say that we always try 523 00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:26,640 Speaker 1: to give you a balanced story and that's always our goal, 524 00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:29,560 Speaker 1: but maybe it doesn't always turn out that way. Maybe 525 00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:33,960 Speaker 1: sometimes it's a little more emphasis on one person than 526 00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:36,719 Speaker 1: another character in a story that we're telling, and you know, 527 00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:38,800 Speaker 1: we're we apologize for that. We we always hope that 528 00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:42,160 Speaker 1: we can tell something that's a balanced story. But thank 529 00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:44,440 Speaker 1: you John for that email. We always love to get 530 00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:47,680 Speaker 1: really honest responses from our listeners and here what you 531 00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:52,040 Speaker 1: guys are thinking and hopefully kindly put, like, yeah, this 532 00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:54,360 Speaker 1: one was really kindly put and it was really thoughtful 533 00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:58,680 Speaker 1: and we appreciated it, and um, you know, please send 534 00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:00,560 Speaker 1: us more of those. We do read them. So I 535 00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:03,160 Speaker 1: hope this shows you guys that. But are we are 536 00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:05,360 Speaker 1: at History Podcast at how Stuff Works dot com. If 537 00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:07,160 Speaker 1: you want to send us anything else about this or 538 00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:10,400 Speaker 1: any other podcasts, or react to any of the listener mails, 539 00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:13,040 Speaker 1: or tell us more about Leo Frank or US Radium 540 00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:16,560 Speaker 1: or the Radium Girls, anything, please write us. You can 541 00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:19,000 Speaker 1: also look us up on Facebook. You can like us 542 00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:22,000 Speaker 1: there if you actually like us, that is, and you 543 00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:25,280 Speaker 1: can look us up on Twitter at MISS Industry. And 544 00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:27,760 Speaker 1: if you want to learn a little bit more about 545 00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:31,400 Speaker 1: radium and radiation, we do have an article called how 546 00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:35,200 Speaker 1: nuclear radiation Works. Then you can find it by searching 547 00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:45,440 Speaker 1: for nuclear radiation at www dot how stuff work dot com. 548 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:47,880 Speaker 1: For more on this and thousands of other topics. Is 549 00:29:47,920 --> 00:30:01,920 Speaker 1: it how stuff Works dot com in