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Speaker 1: Welcome to five hundred Greatest Songs, a podcast based on

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Speaker 1: Rolling Stones hugely popular, influential, and sometimes controversialist.

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Speaker 2: I'm Britney Spanos and I'm Rob Sheffield. We're here to

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Speaker 2: shed light on the greatest songs ever made and discover

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Speaker 2: what makes them so great. This week, we're diving into

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Speaker 2: an absolute classic, super Bass by Nicki Minaj.

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Speaker 1: The song I've had a lot of fun listening to

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Speaker 1: Henripe like all week prior to this.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely.

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Speaker 3: It places at.

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Speaker 1: Number four twenty six on the list, and it was

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Speaker 1: released in twenty eleven on as a bonus track, originally

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Speaker 1: on the UK edition of Pink Friday, which was Nicki's

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Speaker 1: debut album and then ended up becoming her first really,

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Speaker 1: really really massive hit as the lead artist.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this was breakthrough hit until this. Who is known

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Speaker 2: to really to the general public mostly for features, but

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Speaker 2: this was the song that told everybody who the f

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Speaker 2: she is. This is where most people heard her for

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Speaker 2: the first time, and it shows are off in peak

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Speaker 2: form two. So it's a perfect introd.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, Nicki's rise the few years leaning up

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Speaker 1: to that was just like so incredible and so amazing.

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Speaker 1: I mean, she had released a bunch of mixtapes. She

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Speaker 1: released a trio of mixtapes that got a lot of

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Speaker 1: people's attention, and we're sort of just like really showing

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Speaker 1: off what made her so unique at that time, which

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Speaker 1: is like she is one a really excellent rapper. She

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Speaker 1: is just like a formidable rapper, but also just like

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Speaker 1: so funny and so like she has like these great characters.

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Speaker 1: She has like these like great one liners, like you know,

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Speaker 1: she kind of was introducing her own cinematic universe almost

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Speaker 1: of like like nicky voices and characters and lines like

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Speaker 1: you know, it's like like there's always like that joke

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Speaker 1: about like her sons.

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Speaker 3: Like it's just like you know, how many sons does

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Speaker 3: she have? And like it's like kind.

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Speaker 1: Of like those types of things like she was introducing

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Speaker 1: us with the trio of of mixtapes, ended up getting

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Speaker 1: Low Wayne's attention after beating me up Scottie, and that

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Speaker 1: ended up getting her signed to Lowayne's label. I mean

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Speaker 1: that kind of sets the tone for what will happen

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Speaker 1: over the next like two years, but I mean still ongoing,

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Speaker 1: but especially those kind of like.

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Speaker 3: That first four years of Nicki's career was just kind

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Speaker 3: of like hit after hit.

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Speaker 1: Of constant Nicki in the Zeigeist moments.

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Speaker 2: And just Nikki after Niki never shy about showing off

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Speaker 2: her different persona. Remember when she was at the VMA's

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Speaker 2: and it was this clip where it was all Roman

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Speaker 2: all the way, and it was like, this is what

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Speaker 2: she's doing with this spotlight moment is just concentrating on

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Speaker 2: one character.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and even just like thinking about how much how

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Speaker 1: many hits were packed into this time and even like

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Speaker 1: looking back on it, it feels like decades and decades

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Speaker 1: upon of like iconic verses and iconic songs and one

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Speaker 1: liners from her. But I mean like a lot of

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Speaker 1: these are just like released like week after week, like

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Speaker 1: a period of time where she was just like churning

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Speaker 1: out some of the most memorable moments in pop and

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Speaker 1: rap history. And I mean even just like going back,

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Speaker 1: like the first two chart hit she had were February

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Speaker 1: twenty ten, which ended up being the same year that

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Speaker 1: she would later release Pink Friday and its original incarnation

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Speaker 1: was a Knockout with Lil Wayne and Up Out My

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Speaker 1: Face remix with Mariah Carey were released like in the

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Speaker 1: same couple of weeks. In February twenty head, which is

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Speaker 1: just like kind of insane to think, Like looking at that,

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Speaker 1: I was just like, I cannot believe that is sort

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Speaker 1: of that was the back to back of that time

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Speaker 1: of like those two songs, which were sort of just

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Speaker 1: like began the snowball effect of like constant Nikki hit.

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Speaker 2: Gives an idea of her range, right.

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Speaker 1: You're right, yeah, I mean she was someone who was

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Speaker 1: a go to for a lot of people still is

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Speaker 1: like in terms of no matter what genre, no matter

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Speaker 1: like what style you or even i mean even like

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Speaker 1: Knockout by a Lil Wayne was not typical Lil Wayne track,

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Speaker 1: but even just kind of like she was that person

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Speaker 1: that if you needed a really great verse, whether you're

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Speaker 1: a pop star or like a rock band or like

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Speaker 1: an EDM artist, whatever, Like, she was someone that you

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Speaker 1: can go to and she would really mesh very well

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Speaker 1: with like whatever salad you were doing and bring something

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Speaker 1: completely different to it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, very dangerous as a feature, very dangerous to have

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Speaker 2: her on your song just because she's likely to dust you.

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Speaker 1: I mean even you know. That was February twenty ten,

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Speaker 1: when she had sort of this debut on the charts

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Speaker 1: for the very first time by October twenty ten. Was

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Speaker 1: that moment where she had this like really kind of

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Speaker 1: incredible breakout moment where she was featured on Monster by

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Speaker 1: Kanye West and she is on this song with Kanye,

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Speaker 1: with jay Z, with Rick Ross with bony Ver, which

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Speaker 1: again just sort of very twenty ten moment that that was.

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Speaker 1: But I mean for Nicki to be in twenty ten

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Speaker 1: on a track with Kanye and jay Z and Rick

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Speaker 1: Ross and to completely steal the show on that song

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Speaker 1: was like a mind blowing moment. I think for anyone,

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Speaker 1: any lover of rap music at that time. To have

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Speaker 1: Nicki Minaj be the person who was at that time

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Speaker 1: still a very very very new artist, still just kind

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Speaker 1: of gain her bearings on the charts, gain her bearings

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Speaker 1: in this world was like pretty insane.

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Speaker 3: Like that was.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's like one of the most talked about

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Speaker 1: verses I think in history totally.

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Speaker 2: It's it's a verse that introduced her and for Kanye

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Speaker 2: to put her on that song, Like you said, there's

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Speaker 2: a murderers rove talent on that song, a very confident

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Speaker 2: song in so many ways, but also just having all

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Speaker 2: those people peaking on your own record. But as you said,

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Speaker 2: the Nicki verse is one of the most famous verses

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Speaker 2: of all time, and she really does steal the show

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Speaker 2: on a song that is where everybody is shining, everybody

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Speaker 2: is doing an astounding job. It's a great track, but

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Speaker 2: Nicky's presence, she just looms all over it.

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Speaker 1: It's crazy because I feel like I've, you know, much

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Speaker 1: like many people who love this song and love Nikki,

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Speaker 1: that is a verse that I'm like, I constantly just

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Speaker 1: I like, sometimes it's like a skip ahead because I

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Speaker 1: really really need to get to the Nicki verse, because

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Speaker 1: sometimes you just have like a you just like really

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Speaker 1: need to listen to it. And it's always funny, where

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Speaker 1: like if I've done that multiple times in a row

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Speaker 1: and I go back and like, oh, yeah, like the

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Speaker 1: rest of the song is really good. This is like

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Speaker 1: actually a really really great song, and then you get

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Speaker 1: to nick and you're like like, yes, but this is

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Speaker 1: this is the best part of the song.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, it is the best part of the song. You're

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Speaker 2: totally right, yeah. But for her to go from this

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Speaker 2: to the popness of super bass opposite sides of her,

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Speaker 2: and for those to come out roughly the same time,

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Speaker 2: the same fall and showing off opposite sides of what

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Speaker 2: she was doing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think that was what surprised so

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Speaker 1: many people, especially lovers of her mixtapes and loved, you know,

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Speaker 1: already what she was doing prior to gain sign, prior

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Speaker 1: to already starting to make moves on the charts. Like,

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Speaker 1: I think people were really shocked at how much of

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Speaker 1: a pop girl Nicki was, how much of a pop

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Speaker 1: girl she wanted to be, and especially her singing and

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Speaker 1: kind of that desire to kind of create these like

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Speaker 1: bubblegum pop songs mixed with sort of the hardness of

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Speaker 1: her verses and kind of find ways to blend that.

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Speaker 1: I think people were genuinely very shocked at what Pink

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Speaker 1: Friday ended up sounding like, you know, Pink Friday as

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Speaker 1: like sort of like the imagery of it, the way

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Speaker 1: that she really like leaned into this kind of beginnings

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Speaker 1: of that like EDM moment in pop music that we

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Speaker 1: would like really really kind of hear even more in

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Speaker 1: coming years, but was very much influenced by Lady Gaga

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Speaker 1: and sort of like early Katy Perry and Kesha and

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Speaker 1: kind of what was going on with all of those artists.

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of people were very shocked at

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Speaker 1: like the fact that she was able to very seamlessly

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Speaker 1: blend what was happening in in pop with how much

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Speaker 1: of like an incredible.

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Speaker 3: MC she was.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, such an era in pop. Yeah, Brittany era.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this is the very This is a very defining

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Speaker 1: era for me personally. But this album in particular, and

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Speaker 1: all of the songs that kind of came from Pink

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Speaker 1: Friday and then her sophomore album, Pink Friday Roman Reloaded

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Speaker 1: like are just like some of the best nikky songs

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Speaker 1: and best songs of that era.

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Speaker 2: Pink Friday was totally different from what anybody was expecting.

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Speaker 2: It's funny because that was a very long awaited album

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Speaker 2: that was in an album that people had been waiting for.

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Speaker 2: She had been building her rep and it's rare for

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Speaker 2: an artist making a debut album to already be so

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Speaker 2: famous and so itcclaimed, and so people were really waiting

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Speaker 2: for Pink Friday and it turned out to be very different.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Do you have a favorite Pink Friday song.

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Speaker 2: It's got to be super bas Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I obviously love super Bass, but also a Moment for Life.

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Speaker 2: I love Moment for.

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Speaker 1: Great one with Drake and I think fly is on

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Speaker 1: this this Pink Friday I always get like the Pink

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Speaker 1: Friday end up becoming such a franchise for us.

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Speaker 2: Of course, there's Pink Friday, then.

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Speaker 1: There was the Deluxe I mean this is also like

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Speaker 1: one of the more messy eras or beginning of a

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Speaker 1: very messy era in the industry where it was kind

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Speaker 1: of like you have an album, then there's like the

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Speaker 1: deluxe version of the album, and like the like bonus version,

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Speaker 1: and then it's like kind of like, okay, which one,

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Speaker 1: which one are we.

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Speaker 3: Doing right now?

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Speaker 1: But there was Pink Friday, then Pink Friday kind of

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Speaker 1: the deluxe editions with super Bass, which ended up becoming

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Speaker 1: one of the biggest hits from that. Then Pink Friday

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Speaker 1: Roman reloaded, then of course Pink Friday two. More recently

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Speaker 1: so the Pink Friday franchise has has had a lot

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Speaker 1: of bangers from it.

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Speaker 2: It will never stop, Will Never Stop. And for Pink

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Speaker 2: Friday to concentrate so much on her pop side and

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Speaker 2: people are really waiting for a more hardcore sort of approach,

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Speaker 2: and that was the time that Monster came out and

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Speaker 2: for her to be so hardcore on that song and

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Speaker 2: then so many melodies. There was some disappointment at the

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Speaker 2: time with the album, but it was just because it

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Speaker 2: was so different from people I've been expecting.

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Speaker 1: And she really ended up leaning even more into it

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Speaker 1: for you know, again with Pink Friday Into Pink Friday

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Speaker 1: Roman Reloaded, which came out in twenty twelve, like that

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Speaker 1: sort of back to back of those two albums were

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Speaker 1: leaning so so heavily into this, like edm sound, I

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Speaker 1: mean all she like she really kind of like really

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Speaker 1: went for it with all those because there was so

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Speaker 1: much of that success with songs like super Bass and

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Speaker 1: you know, Moment for Life and then later ended up

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Speaker 1: being like Pound the Alarm, Starships, like all those songs

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Speaker 1: did so well and you know, ended up becoming like

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Speaker 1: a really great defining era for Nicki. But she really

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Speaker 1: leaned very, very heavily into it, which I admire that

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Speaker 1: she did, even though it was that disappointment to kind

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Speaker 1: of like the kind of rapheads who were like, this

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Speaker 1: is not the Nikki the mixtape, Nikki, this is not

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Speaker 1: the one that we like thought was going to end

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Speaker 1: up like sort of being the queen of rap.

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Speaker 3: But she ended up doing it very seamlessly.

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Speaker 2: She built up such a rep with the mixtapes, and

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Speaker 2: the mixtapes really created this hardcore sort of legend for her.

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Speaker 2: I mean, she really was already a legend when Pink

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Speaker 2: Friday came out, and just the Pink Friday was so

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Speaker 2: different from the mixtapes, the idea that Lil Wayne was

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Speaker 2: involved tangentially just historically in the creation of her reputation

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Speaker 2: and her early.

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Speaker 1: Rep and I think like a lot of what she

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Speaker 1: was really good at was like she had sort of

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Speaker 1: the albums that she was releasing at the time were

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Speaker 1: so pop leaning and so kind of her really wanting

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Speaker 1: to compete with the big pop stars of that era

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Speaker 1: again like the Gagas and the Katies of that of

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Speaker 1: that time. But you know, then she would churn out

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Speaker 1: these incredible featured versus. I mean, this is like such

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Speaker 1: a big part of that Nikki lore and that Nikki

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Speaker 1: appeal was like she has had such a great history

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Speaker 1: of working with so many artists because she would work

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Speaker 1: with like so many of these like excellent rappers like

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Speaker 1: put out like the hardest verse on the entire record

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Speaker 1: and the like, and then be like and here's starships.

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Speaker 2: Totally. I love those mixtapes, those early mixtapes. Yeah, and

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Speaker 2: she was so raw, often very filthy, Yeah, and so innovative,

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Speaker 2: like you said, in an amazing rapper from the get

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Speaker 2: go ye and the personality that she built, I mean,

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Speaker 2: going back to them, there's still a lot of that,

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Speaker 2: you know, that Barbie obsession, that Parajiku obsession.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And I mean super Bass of course has its

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Speaker 1: own song that ended up being released officially as a

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Speaker 1: single in April twenty eleven, and it was a sleeperhead.

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Speaker 1: It ended up taking a few months to actually really

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Speaker 1: really rise on the charts and ended up hitting number

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Speaker 1: three on the Billboard Hot one hundred, was her highest

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Speaker 1: ranking song as a lead artist at the time. And

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think that one is such a great

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Speaker 1: example of that balance of like the verses are incredible,

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Speaker 1: Like it's really peak kind of Nikki rapping. She's putting

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Speaker 1: on like the British voice, the like Roman kind of

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Speaker 1: tease of Roman in the in Superbass, but also has

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Speaker 1: like her showing off or singing. She's singing a bit

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Speaker 1: with Esther Dean who co wrote the song, and really

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Speaker 1: kind of showcasing that really delicate balance that she she

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Speaker 1: was toying with at times, very indelicately like in terms

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Speaker 1: of how she'd approach it, but you know that really

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Speaker 1: great sort of nicky dual dynamic of like hears like

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Speaker 1: her singing pop girl putting an incredible hook, like one

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Speaker 1: of the catchiest hooks of a time, known for catchy

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Speaker 1: hook with her showcasing that she is a remarkable rapper

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Speaker 1: with an incredible and very unique flow that would end

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Speaker 1: up being imitated for many years. To come still and

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Speaker 1: find that balance on the song.

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Speaker 2: The balance is amazing. It's really a perfect sort of

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Speaker 2: sizzle reel for everything that she could do and everything

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Speaker 2: that she wanted to do, very different from what she'd

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Speaker 2: done earlier in her rapper career when she was just

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Speaker 2: building up her rep on the mixtapes. This one shows

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Speaker 2: the different sort of range that she does. I love

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Speaker 2: when she uses the thing accent.

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Speaker 1: I love it.

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Speaker 2: The English accent on that song is one of my

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Speaker 2: favorite moments. She's really got a thing for American guys.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, I believe I believe she's British.

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Speaker 1: You know, you can't tell me differently, but yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean she even just like the way the song starts

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Speaker 1: out there is that sort of like very sort of dreamy,

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Speaker 1: sparkly like bubble gummy, kind of like synth little flare

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Speaker 1: that starts it off, and then she kind of comes

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Speaker 1: in like much harder than you anticipate on the song,

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Speaker 1: Like she kind of comes in, she's like this one's

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Speaker 1: for the boys with the booming system like that, a

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Speaker 1: little bit more of that edge into it on top

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Speaker 1: of this like very delicate, like sweet and.

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Speaker 3: Kind of like airy type of little riff that happens there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the riff, like and it leads to that chorus,

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Speaker 2: which is just such an iconic course just in terms

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Speaker 2: of the poppiness of it and just the way it

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Speaker 2: repeats the sort of the pop side of Pink Friday. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: yet with such hardcore rapping in the middle. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I guess like in the years since Pink Print, Nikki

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Speaker 1: has had like a pretty like divisive maybe we'll use

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Speaker 1: that word, career and sort of public image over the years.

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Speaker 1: I'm curious kind of like what that means for the

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Speaker 1: feature of Nicki Minaj.

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Speaker 2: As you said, you're a barb and for her to

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Speaker 2: sort of take the turn that she took in many ways,

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Speaker 2: the Pink Print is sort of the peak when she

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Speaker 2: was you know, but tormented genius and what she's done

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Speaker 2: the last four years has pissed a lot of people off.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean even starting with Queen, like you know

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Speaker 1: that release was it just had like a lot of

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Speaker 1: like weird setbacks. And I mean, granted, this was like

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Speaker 1: a kind of a weird time in music releasing where

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Speaker 1: I remember like Beyonce and Lemonade like going on title

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Speaker 1: with a kind of botched rollout of that album in

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Speaker 1: a really weird way, and it was just like a

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Speaker 1: weird time for digital releases where I think a lot

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Speaker 1: of industries and streaming services were still getting their bearings

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Speaker 1: with how to do that that it was just like

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Speaker 1: that rollout was a little bit weird. She's been in

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Speaker 1: a lot of feuds with other specifically female rappers that

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Speaker 1: I think has left a really bad taste in people's mouths,

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Speaker 1: And that's that for me, has kind of been sort

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Speaker 1: of a weird thing to sort of developed because she

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Speaker 1: is so iconic and I do very much see her

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Speaker 1: as the Queen of rap, but it sucks to see

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Speaker 1: her kind of be in constant fights with younger with

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Speaker 1: younger women who have all said at different times that

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Speaker 1: they are a big fan of her you know, of course,

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Speaker 1: a lot of the stuff with her husband and her

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Speaker 1: brother and being convicted predators really also sucks. Like it's

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Speaker 1: just you know, her relation to them and are kind

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Speaker 1: of caping for a lot of men like them, and

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Speaker 1: then again entering into feuds with young women who have

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Speaker 1: looked up to her and oh a lot to her.

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Speaker 1: It's made my relationship with her music very complicated over

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Speaker 1: the years. But yeah, I don't know, I think it's

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Speaker 1: you know, hasn't slowed down. A lot of a really

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Speaker 1: big fandom, a lot of you know, her tour's been

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Speaker 1: selling out, She's had a really really massive run with

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Speaker 1: her Pink Friday to tour and kind of has announced

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Speaker 1: even more dates and all that. So of course it's

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Speaker 1: still Nicki Minaogency's still you know, one of the best

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Speaker 1: selling artists of all time. But it is sort of

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Speaker 1: a confusing place to be actually, because it's like kind

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Speaker 1: of stuff that people usually do when they're in their

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Speaker 1: like seventies, you know, like artists they are kind of

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Speaker 1: like really do not care anymore, and they're kind of like, well, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, this new music sucks and led to a

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Speaker 1: lot of like kind of weird relationships for her in

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Speaker 1: the industry and kind of really confusing, almost kind of

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Speaker 1: seemingly like now like isolated place in the music industry

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Speaker 1: that Nikki is where that wasn't the case for a really.

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Speaker 2: Long time, well really in a world of her own, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I mean musically and in every other way.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So I'm wondering what that will mean for the future,

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Speaker 1: because I mean I think a lot about the time

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Speaker 1: that she sort of came up as an artist, I mean,

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Speaker 1: this was every genre music sucks for women, but rap

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Speaker 1: has especially been really really hard for a lot of

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Speaker 1: women to break through in and to kind of have

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Speaker 1: a lot of success. And even with super Bass that

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Speaker 1: was like the highest charting single for a female rapper

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Speaker 1: since work It at that time, Wow, and Pink Friday

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Speaker 1: even becoming like the second and most successful album by

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Speaker 1: a female rapper since Miseducation. Like, you know, there was

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Speaker 1: a lot of barriers for every woman in rap to

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Speaker 1: kind of break through in, and so you know, it's

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Speaker 1: been really confusing to kind of see that sort of

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Speaker 1: her relationships with other women in the genre sort of

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Speaker 1: as it developed over the course of the last decade.

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Speaker 3: But musically, like she's still kind of the queen of

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Speaker 3: Wrapped Me.

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Speaker 1: And after the break we have Manka per Conte to

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Speaker 1: talk about super Bass. We are joined by Rolling Stone

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Speaker 1: staff writer makaper Conte. Mochapr. Thank you so much for

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Speaker 1: joining us today.

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Speaker 4: Thank thanks guys again.

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Speaker 3: I'm around two, super happy.

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Speaker 2: To be this time in person.

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Speaker 4: I know the stars aligned.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you. Well.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to hear about sort of the first time

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Speaker 1: you encounter I'm sure it was with the same way

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Speaker 1: that everyone else encountered Nicki Minaj, but sort of your

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Speaker 1: kind of experience kind of watching those like early years

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Speaker 1: of her really blowing up leading up to super Bass.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, my first real, real memory of Nicki

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Speaker 4: Minaj is riding the bus with who is now my

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Speaker 4: best friend and has been my best friend for eighteen years,

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Speaker 4: and we would blast eighty big Piggy and I get

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Speaker 4: crazy and we would wrap it and because like on

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Speaker 4: the bus, you would just kind of trade music. I

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Speaker 4: didn't even imagine what we were listening to music on iPods,

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Speaker 4: like because I wouldn't have had a physical mixtape, so

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Speaker 4: probably on like our iPods. She was just so weird,

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00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:16,480
Speaker 4: like the whole spiel. I win you lose on ity

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Speaker 4: bity piggy like ben that from top to bottom. And

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Speaker 4: I think it was just like it was really exciting

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Speaker 4: and of course, like I didn't grow up in an

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Speaker 4: era where there were women rappers that were popular at all,

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Speaker 4: and so to really watch her from the ground up

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Speaker 4: build and like really change the course of like music

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Speaker 4: has been really cool.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean there was something kind of surreal happening

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Speaker 1: in those years where it was like, especially for young

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Speaker 1: women who were listening to her, like this was just

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Speaker 1: like someone who was like you knew all the lyrics,

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Speaker 1: you were learning it, but also like boys listened to

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Speaker 1: her too, like there was like a lot with that,

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Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, it was just like this like kind

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Speaker 1: of big phenomenon happening in real time as she was

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Speaker 1: blowing up as it was happening.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: And I think one of the things too, when I

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Speaker 4: think I haven't actually thought about like men's relationship with

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Speaker 4: Nicki Minas, it's a really interesting point because I was

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Speaker 4: listening to I Get Crazy on the way here and

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Speaker 4: hearing Wayne and how much synergy they had in her

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Speaker 4: being able to come up under him at the time,

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Speaker 4: where like Wayne was of course like the hottest he

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Speaker 4: had ever been around that time. I wonder like how

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Speaker 4: much that had to do with like how universal like

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Speaker 4: she became, because eventually she was on every song. She

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Speaker 4: was like the tea pain of music.

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Speaker 3: Eventually.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean.

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Speaker 1: Even just like that psychotomy too, of like her as

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Speaker 1: a rapper and her as someone who could be like

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Speaker 1: a really great pop star, which is what super Bass

435
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Speaker 1: sort of helped solidify in so many ways. I mean,

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00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:38,600
Speaker 1: tell me about kind of watching that dichotomy that she

437
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Speaker 1: was really playing with at that time and able to

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Speaker 1: like really make such an important part of who she

439
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Speaker 1: was as a as a star. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I remember the reactions around super Bass being really mixed,

441
00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:52,320
Speaker 4: right because it's like, this is this hardcore rapper, This

442
00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:54,679
Speaker 4: is this girl from New York that Wayne just like

443
00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:57,600
Speaker 4: plucked right out of like her neighborhood. Like what is

444
00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:00,440
Speaker 4: she doing in this pink wig and this like little

445
00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:03,240
Speaker 4: dance and little shorts and like making such poppy music.

446
00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:05,320
Speaker 4: But it's like you can see such a through line

447
00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:08,000
Speaker 4: from that to like Megan and Sweetest Pie and Cardi

448
00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:10,200
Speaker 4: and Maroon five or like every other rapper that Maroon

449
00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:13,560
Speaker 4: five is like put on a song like she really

450
00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:17,720
Speaker 4: opened this really interesting door for like rap and particularly

451
00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:20,920
Speaker 4: rap by like women then to be pop music, yeah,

452
00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:23,840
Speaker 4: and to like play with like more traditional like Max

453
00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:26,040
Speaker 4: Martini like pop sounds.

454
00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:26,520
Speaker 3: Yeah.

455
00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:26,960
Speaker 2: Yeah.

456
00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:29,080
Speaker 1: And there was like a coexisting happening two of those

457
00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:31,080
Speaker 1: two sides of her, where like she was someone who

458
00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:32,760
Speaker 1: was very much letting fy yourself as like one of

459
00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:35,040
Speaker 1: the greatest rappers of all time and someone who can

460
00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:37,640
Speaker 1: like really you know, just like have like this incredible flow,

461
00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:40,240
Speaker 1: but also could make like one of the catchiest top

462
00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:41,439
Speaker 1: forty songs that you ever hear.

463
00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:44,359
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's really catchy. I feel like I can't quite

464
00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:46,400
Speaker 4: remember what my reaction was to super Rased. I don't

465
00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:48,600
Speaker 4: think that I loved it. I think I grew to

466
00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:50,439
Speaker 4: like it a lot more, and the way that like

467
00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:52,400
Speaker 4: you grow to like like party in the USA, it's

468
00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:54,040
Speaker 4: just like one of those songs that like we all

469
00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:55,560
Speaker 4: know and like can like bring us joy and we

470
00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:58,080
Speaker 4: kind of commune around. I think I probably thought it

471
00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:00,000
Speaker 4: was kind of silly when it came out, but even

472
00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:01,520
Speaker 4: when I listen to it now, is like she's really

473
00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:04,880
Speaker 4: really rapping on it, and it's it's fun just because

474
00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:06,959
Speaker 4: it's a pop song. She didn't like lose her edge,

475
00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:09,200
Speaker 4: and she seems to have always wanted to be a singer.

476
00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:11,280
Speaker 4: Like I was even listening to Pink Friday too. She

477
00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:13,159
Speaker 4: does so much singing on that it seems to be

478
00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:14,919
Speaker 4: like really important to her, So it seems like she

479
00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:16,760
Speaker 4: always wanted to blend those two things.

480
00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:17,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure.

481
00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:20,040
Speaker 2: I'm curious what you thought of Pink Friday in general

482
00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:23,920
Speaker 2: when it came out, because it was really disconcertingly pop.

483
00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:26,000
Speaker 2: The whole album was so pop, it was so different

484
00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:28,159
Speaker 2: from what people have been expecting and hoping for.

485
00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:31,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, I am one of those people that give Pink

486
00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:34,920
Speaker 4: Friday it's flowers because I know how important Nikki is

487
00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:39,200
Speaker 4: to hip hop culture and I know that and that

488
00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:44,200
Speaker 4: being her like mainstream breakthrough is really important. I don't

489
00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:47,680
Speaker 4: think it is that great of an album. I think

490
00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:51,080
Speaker 4: that Nikki does not actually make very good whole albums.

491
00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:53,920
Speaker 4: There is this phenomenon in rap across men and women

492
00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:56,920
Speaker 4: where some people can make incredible songs, but like an

493
00:21:56,960 --> 00:22:01,440
Speaker 4: album requires like movement and storytelling, in curation and like

494
00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:04,800
Speaker 4: making really hard choices, and I feel like it's mostly

495
00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:07,080
Speaker 4: in the beat selection on Pink Friday that I'm just like,

496
00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:09,080
Speaker 4: something about it is a little too cheesy. It's like

497
00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:11,399
Speaker 4: a little too corny. But again, like the Nikki that

498
00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:13,960
Speaker 4: I'm like most drawn to is like the I get crazy,

499
00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:17,960
Speaker 4: itty bitty piggy like even like FTCU on Pink Friday,

500
00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:21,479
Speaker 4: everybody would low uzzy, like I like when there is

501
00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:25,320
Speaker 4: a little more hardness to it or just like a

502
00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:27,680
Speaker 4: little less corn I don't know really how to explain,

503
00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:29,440
Speaker 4: and that might just be a personal difference, but I've

504
00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:31,840
Speaker 4: really really tried with Nikki albums, and I can always

505
00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:34,280
Speaker 4: find more than a handful of really great songs, but

506
00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:36,800
Speaker 4: the whole units, to me are never what I feel

507
00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:40,520
Speaker 4: like she could be capable of. Yeah, even yeah, I

508
00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:42,800
Speaker 4: don't have like a Nikki album that I like, love to.

509
00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:44,720
Speaker 4: My favorite Nicki album so far as Pink Friday too,

510
00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:47,280
Speaker 4: yea and even five songs.

511
00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:51,360
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah.

512
00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:53,439
Speaker 4: Like when people were like, yeah, I don't know about this,

513
00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:54,879
Speaker 4: I was like, this is my favorite thing. But I

514
00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:57,560
Speaker 4: think it's like because she felt so with the times,

515
00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:00,160
Speaker 4: and I'm like, maybe the times that Pink Friday was

516
00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:03,040
Speaker 4: with was whatever was happening in pop music, which maybe

517
00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:05,280
Speaker 4: I wasn't that attuned to at that time.

518
00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:07,720
Speaker 1: It was very like kind of connected to that sort

519
00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:11,480
Speaker 1: of like Kesha type of like like early Gaga, early

520
00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:12,760
Speaker 1: Katy Perry kind.

521
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:13,760
Speaker 3: Of sound that was happening.

522
00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:16,600
Speaker 1: I'm curious. I mean, I guess the contrast like some

523
00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:19,760
Speaker 1: of your favorite Nikki songs or verses, like I feel

524
00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:22,680
Speaker 1: like she's someone who, you know, I have favorite songs verse,

525
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:25,920
Speaker 1: but her verses, especially on other people, you know, she's

526
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:28,640
Speaker 1: a guest first or anything like remixes things like that

527
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:31,560
Speaker 1: are just so striking. And of course the Monster verse

528
00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:35,439
Speaker 1: is like one of the most famous guest versus maybe

529
00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:38,440
Speaker 1: of all time, you know, and she has like and

530
00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:41,200
Speaker 1: that's one of like I don't even know how like

531
00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:44,080
Speaker 1: a hundred, like one of a hundred, like incredible, you know,

532
00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:46,520
Speaker 1: just really excellent kind of feature She's had, some curious

533
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:48,879
Speaker 1: kind of what are some of your your favorite Nikki

534
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:51,200
Speaker 1: I guess you could just call them moments moments.

535
00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:54,320
Speaker 4: I love her on My Beautiful, Dark Twisted Fantasy. The

536
00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:58,639
Speaker 4: intro like fairy tale intro. Her voice, her character was

537
00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:01,359
Speaker 4: just so perfect for that and the like lush like

538
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:03,680
Speaker 4: production under it. It's one of the things that makes

539
00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:05,840
Speaker 4: that album I think so elevated, just like all the

540
00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 4: thought put into it and like finding Nikki to like

541
00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:11,040
Speaker 4: get into that rhythm for it, and that's not even

542
00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:13,399
Speaker 4: like her really really rapping, you know, like she's just

543
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:15,800
Speaker 4: like kind of playing around there. It's funny. I'm trying

544
00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:17,600
Speaker 4: to think about the older things, but it's like I'm

545
00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:21,320
Speaker 4: thinking about her on a Poundtown remix with Sexy Red,

546
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:23,800
Speaker 4: I think, yeah, I think that. And that's the thing,

547
00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:25,359
Speaker 4: like when I feel like Niki is keeping up with

548
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:28,680
Speaker 4: the times, particularly in like rap, but still keeping her

549
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:31,160
Speaker 4: own unique bend to it is when I like, really

550
00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:31,760
Speaker 4: really like her.

551
00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:37,360
Speaker 2: So yeah, Big Sean Ass remix was like that was Yeah.

552
00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:39,520
Speaker 2: I think of that as like one of the moments

553
00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:41,920
Speaker 2: where she was trying to fit in with the song.

554
00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:45,200
Speaker 2: She wasn't trying to like totally watch the song, but like, yeah,

555
00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:47,720
Speaker 2: that that's a really good That might be my favorite

556
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:48,520
Speaker 2: Nikki verse of all.

557
00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:50,159
Speaker 4: That's a really really good one.

558
00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:52,440
Speaker 3: I'm a big fan of for Trey Songs collaboration.

559
00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:55,800
Speaker 4: I love that good one.

560
00:24:57,160 --> 00:24:58,240
Speaker 2: It could have been made for you.

561
00:24:59,040 --> 00:24:59,240
Speaker 4: Yeah.

562
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:01,239
Speaker 1: I love her verse on Bottoms Up.

563
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:02,720
Speaker 3: I love her verse.

564
00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:05,560
Speaker 1: I'm little freak by sure, especially that everybody loves Raymond line,

565
00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:09,359
Speaker 1: something that I would just like yeah constantly.

566
00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:12,680
Speaker 4: That's a good one.

567
00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:13,400
Speaker 3: That's a good one.

568
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:15,160
Speaker 2: That is a great one. That's an alzheimer.

569
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:19,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, I didn't used to, but now that I listened

570
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:21,560
Speaker 4: to it, I like her verse on Motorsport a lot ye, Like,

571
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:23,480
Speaker 4: I think that was a very tense moment. You know,

572
00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:26,040
Speaker 4: there was already tensions kind of brewing between she and

573
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:28,880
Speaker 4: Cardi before, like everything really really blew up. They're trying

574
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:31,399
Speaker 4: to collaborate. Cardi has an outstanding verse. I love her

575
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:34,160
Speaker 4: calling herself the trap Selena. But now I'm thinking about

576
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:37,240
Speaker 4: how Nikki like kind of like creeps on it, Like

577
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:39,760
Speaker 4: how like kind of intimidating she is on it. Like

578
00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:42,400
Speaker 4: I really like her attitude in that verse a lot

579
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:44,600
Speaker 4: more now, And I think that's that's that's like a

580
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:46,680
Speaker 4: pretty iconic moment for her too, I think, Yeah.

581
00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:48,920
Speaker 1: I mean, I think the thing with Nikki and something

582
00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:50,439
Speaker 1: he brought up a couple of times is like the

583
00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:53,760
Speaker 1: characters and sort of that mix of like she is

584
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:56,240
Speaker 1: very very funny, and she's very quick with her humor,

585
00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:59,480
Speaker 1: and she also is like she's she's a theater kid,

586
00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:03,359
Speaker 1: like very good at like embodying Roman and embodying like

587
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:05,800
Speaker 1: all these like different kind of personas in the songs.

588
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:08,640
Speaker 1: I mean, tell me about how that kind of set

589
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:11,240
Speaker 1: Nikki apart and also like kind of evolved over the

590
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:12,000
Speaker 1: course of her career.

591
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:14,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I think it's one of those things,

592
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:15,560
Speaker 4: you know, like earlier when I was like she was

593
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:16,879
Speaker 4: so weird, it was like one of the things that

594
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:19,880
Speaker 4: made her weird, but like also then made her really interesting.

595
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:23,359
Speaker 4: The Harajuku Barbie character was like really interesting to me,

596
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:27,440
Speaker 4: her calling herself that, the like Monica Lewinsky references and

597
00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:30,199
Speaker 4: the Nikki Lewinsky character, and like that being about her

598
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:33,200
Speaker 4: relationship to low Wayne. You know, like everything is means now,

599
00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 4: and I think artists are really encouraged, Like you can

600
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:37,840
Speaker 4: see like artists being encouraged like Victoria Mane does as

601
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 4: well to like take memes and make them a part

602
00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:43,000
Speaker 4: of their own body of work. And it's kind of

603
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:45,600
Speaker 4: like she kind of did that with like things that

604
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:47,920
Speaker 4: weren't like as well known, but you know, like when

605
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:50,600
Speaker 4: Stefani previously did like the whole Harajuku thing, So it's

606
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:53,480
Speaker 4: kind of pulling that in. There's a political reference there,

607
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:56,040
Speaker 4: so I feel like it, maybe in a weird way,

608
00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:57,439
Speaker 4: is kind of like a precursor to that.

609
00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:00,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like right now, like the the Young

610
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:02,639
Speaker 1: Money Crew, I mean, especially Nicki and Drake are in

611
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,560
Speaker 1: such like a weird kind of moment I kind of

612
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:07,480
Speaker 1: make or break I guess, kind of legacy moment, which

613
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:09,320
Speaker 1: is kind of surreal to even think about, you know,

614
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:12,800
Speaker 1: the like going just you know, fourteen fifteen years ago

615
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:15,479
Speaker 1: and just kind of that sort of imperial phase that

616
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:18,199
Speaker 1: lasted I think longer than I think anyone anticipated that

617
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:18,719
Speaker 1: it would.

618
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:19,320
Speaker 2: You know.

619
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:21,880
Speaker 1: Nicki, of course, is still she has a massive tour.

620
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:24,719
Speaker 1: I mean, she still has like the Barbs forever, but

621
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:26,920
Speaker 1: it has been sort of like an interesting few years,

622
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:28,800
Speaker 1: I guess in sort of her career and like kind

623
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:31,920
Speaker 1: of her interaction with a lot of younger artists specifically,

624
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:33,840
Speaker 1: I mean, tell me kind of where that stands for

625
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:35,960
Speaker 1: you now and sort of how you view Nicki in

626
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:38,399
Speaker 1: the present day, especially being a fan of Pink for

627
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 1: you too, and kind of her music still kind of

628
00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 1: being having like really great moments and things like that,

629
00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:45,439
Speaker 1: Like where do you sort of stand in sort of

630
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:47,359
Speaker 1: your Barb Barb fandom.

631
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:53,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm really disappointed, Yeah, And I try to not

632
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:57,240
Speaker 4: let that take away from the things that she's accomplished.

633
00:27:57,480 --> 00:27:59,640
Speaker 4: In my mind, like I'd never want to like diminish

634
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:03,199
Speaker 4: her talent in my mind or her impact, but I

635
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:06,320
Speaker 4: do think that, you know, it's like dark Knight, live

636
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:08,880
Speaker 4: long enough to see yourself become the villain type thing,

637
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:10,960
Speaker 4: you know, or die of be a hero, and maybe

638
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:13,560
Speaker 4: those fourteen years were too long, but I think that's

639
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:16,399
Speaker 4: kind of what we're seeing happen. And it's funny because

640
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:18,320
Speaker 4: right like one of the first I think, like og

641
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:21,240
Speaker 4: Nikki beefs was with Kim and it seemed like there

642
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:24,040
Speaker 4: was this air that like this older woman was not

643
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:26,639
Speaker 4: embracing Nicki, or Nikki felt that she wasn't embraced, or

644
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:29,920
Speaker 4: there was just this like dissonance between generations that she's

645
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 4: like recreating with so many young women in RAP. And

646
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:35,600
Speaker 4: it's like everybody who comes into the game cites her

647
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:38,480
Speaker 4: as an influence, like even after they fall out Lotto

648
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:42,080
Speaker 4: like other folks I spice, even like you know, she

649
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:44,320
Speaker 4: says that they're cool, but like you know, techt leaked

650
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:47,280
Speaker 4: where she was having a hard time processing that relationship,

651
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:50,040
Speaker 4: like no one has ever took away I think from

652
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:53,440
Speaker 4: what she's accomplished. But yeah, it is really disappointing to see.

653
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 4: And then I mean, I think some of like the

654
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:57,680
Speaker 4: personal choices too in her like personal life have been

655
00:28:57,720 --> 00:28:58,800
Speaker 4: disappointing to see.

656
00:28:58,880 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 3: I read this really.

657
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:03,080
Speaker 4: Interesting thing essay in the New York Times music magazine

658
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:07,800
Speaker 4: many years ago. The writer was predicting that like these

659
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 4: this generation of stars would have to fall. But this

660
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:13,200
Speaker 4: is like maybe like twenty like seventeen that I read

661
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:15,360
Speaker 4: this something like that. I was in grad school, maybe

662
00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:18,640
Speaker 4: twenty eighteen, and I was like, this person was basically arguing,

663
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 4: like Beyonce's not and Drake and Kanye and Nikki, these

664
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:23,680
Speaker 4: people can't all be who they are forever. And I

665
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 4: was like, well, who's gonna take their place?

666
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 2: And that.

667
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:30,760
Speaker 4: Proved true for many years after. But I think that

668
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:33,200
Speaker 4: person was right, and we're starting to see because like

669
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:35,760
Speaker 4: there's so much music, there's so much access, there's so

670
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 4: many different types of women in rap, there's so many

671
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:40,880
Speaker 4: different attitudes and styles and regions that are reflected in

672
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 4: particularly women's rap, that like, we don't have to hold

673
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:46,840
Speaker 4: on to someone, particularly if they're like not nice.

674
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:47,959
Speaker 3: Yeah you know, yeah, I mean.

675
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 1: Something that came up for me and wrap within the

676
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:53,360
Speaker 1: Missy episode and earlier in this episode is just you know,

677
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:57,120
Speaker 1: how many limited spaces were allowed for women in rap

678
00:29:57,200 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 1: music and kind of this like Nikki kind of even

679
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:00,840
Speaker 1: having to come up in a time where it was

680
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 1: like sort of just like you have to kind of

681
00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:05,640
Speaker 1: like claw for that space then to be like seen

682
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:09,440
Speaker 1: as equivalent to you know, the Kanys and jay Z's

683
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:11,040
Speaker 1: at the moment. You know, it's like, I guess like

684
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:12,600
Speaker 1: part of me like feels for that in a way,

685
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:14,280
Speaker 1: but also I feel like I stand.

686
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:15,680
Speaker 3: Very much at the same place where you are, where

687
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:16,560
Speaker 3: it's like, you know.

688
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think because you can understand the origins of

689
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 4: something or you can empathize what the feeling, doesn't necessarily

690
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:23,400
Speaker 4: mean that you think it's right. Yeah, I think that's

691
00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:25,840
Speaker 4: where it is, right. You know, it's like, yes, you

692
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:29,400
Speaker 4: did have to claw and climb your way to the top,

693
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:31,600
Speaker 4: but it's not like that, and none of I think

694
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:33,800
Speaker 4: the most pop and rap girls want to be that way.

695
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:37,160
Speaker 4: Lotto and Flow, Milly and Meg are together all the time.

696
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:39,840
Speaker 4: You know, sometimes it seems like some relationships here and

697
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:42,920
Speaker 4: there have like dissipated, but it's not always breaking out

698
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:46,120
Speaker 4: into these like catastrophic fights or like beefs all the time.

699
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:49,040
Speaker 4: I think that there is an aura in music, particularly

700
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:51,360
Speaker 4: in women in rap of like we have no reason

701
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:52,280
Speaker 4: to tear each other down.

702
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 1: Well, thank you so much for so much, Thanks so

703
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:02,560
Speaker 1: much for listening to Rolling Stone's five hundred Greatest Songs.

704
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:05,520
Speaker 1: This podcast is brought to you by Rolling Stone and iHeartMedia.

705
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:09,040
Speaker 1: Written hosted by Me, Britney Spanos and Rob Sheffield. Executive

706
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:12,400
Speaker 1: produced by Gus Winner, Jason Vine, Alex Dale and Christian Horde,

707
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:15,360
Speaker 1: and produced by Jesse Cannon, with music supervision by Eric

708
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:15,760
Speaker 1: Zeiler