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Speaker 1: I think if you go after Joe Kennics, especially Joe

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Speaker 1: kin who has arguably the most gold plated reputation of

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Speaker 1: any man since MacArthur in nineteen forty five, thank you.

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Speaker 1: If you come after him, all right, he's going to

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Speaker 1: bury you.

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Speaker 2: All right.

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Speaker 1: This guy has lived his entire life fighting our nation's

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Speaker 1: battle and had his wife killed in action fighting the

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Speaker 1: same enemies.

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Speaker 2: Like, of all the people in the world that you

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Speaker 2: don't want to screw with, is this guy.

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Speaker 3: Joe Kent resigns as director from the National counter Terrorism

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Speaker 3: Center and the fallout ensues. That's why I'm bringing on

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Speaker 3: former Special Forces Sergeant Clay Martin to the show today.

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Speaker 3: I'm the David Rutherford Show. All right, Clay, you heard

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Speaker 3: this news. What was your immediate reaction action? Honestly, shock,

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Speaker 3: I was. I was actually blown away. By the way,

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Speaker 3: thanks for hamy on a day. Yeah, it was early

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Speaker 3: this morning.

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Speaker 2: I was. I was actually kind of stunned.

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Speaker 1: Uh, not that I didn't think Joe had it anyone,

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Speaker 1: because he's one of the most audible men that's ever

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Speaker 1: worn the colors of this country.

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Speaker 2: I just didn't. I didn't see this coming today. So

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Speaker 2: it was absolute shock. I felt the same way. I.

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Speaker 3: You know, I had always imagined that it would come

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Speaker 3: from maybe Tulci Gabbert or Robert F. Kennedy junior, right,

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Speaker 3: somebody that had a long tradition of of being a

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Speaker 3: Democrat or you know, a different type of belief. But

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Speaker 3: to have, in my mind kind of the the epitome

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Speaker 3: of what of what a true American patriot and a

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Speaker 3: hero represents in Joe Kent.

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Speaker 2: Like he's he's the he's the totality.

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Speaker 3: I think like, if if I could go back and

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Speaker 3: do it again, I'd want to try to be like

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Speaker 3: Joe Kent, right'.

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Speaker 2: I still want to be in when I grow up. Actually,

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Speaker 2: I totally get it. Did it awesome? Awesome?

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Speaker 3: You know, And as you watched, I don't know about you,

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Speaker 3: obviously I was paying attention a lot what you were

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Speaker 3: posting today and what other people were posting.

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Speaker 2: I was.

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Speaker 3: I got sucked into the Twitter wars a little bit

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Speaker 3: as well too. But the thing that I really wanted

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Speaker 3: to represent, and what I was saying is that a

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Speaker 3: guy like this, who he is, what he represents, but

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Speaker 3: more importantly, where he comes from and what he's seen,

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Speaker 3: and and that's what I hope we could kind of

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Speaker 3: talk about today from your first dad experience just starting.

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Speaker 3: Let's just start from the beginning. Let's start from the

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Speaker 3: moment you become a Green Beret, right, because I what

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Speaker 3: I think a lot of people, you know, people that

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Speaker 3: aren't familiar with our world, is the very unique differences

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Speaker 3: between all the branches, and so you know, this Special

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Speaker 3: Forces is its own unique animal. And really in my mind,

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Speaker 3: with the guys that I've worked with in the past,

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Speaker 3: both at the Agency and then you know, doing joint ops,

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Speaker 3: the they have a profound sense of intelligence, how to

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Speaker 3: utilize it, how to cultivate it, collect it, and then

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Speaker 3: how to employ it in a way that opsec is permanent.

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Speaker 3: And then also its function to be able to really

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Speaker 3: great conduct great missions.

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Speaker 2: Now this is absolutely true, and this is this is

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Speaker 2: directly relevant to especially some of the things that we

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Speaker 2: said about being said about Joe Kent today as far

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Speaker 2: as like the negative stuff that it goes.

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Speaker 1: So the big difference honestly between like the Special the

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Speaker 1: Green Berets and everybody else is we were actually built

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Speaker 1: to specialize in the intelligence stuff, all right.

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Speaker 2: Like the Johnny the commando stuff is all cool.

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Speaker 1: We got to bunch that during the g y like

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Speaker 1: everybody else, but we really comes down to brass tacks.

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Speaker 1: We were always intended to be like an older force

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Speaker 1: used to be you had to have four years of

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Speaker 1: service in the army before you could even go be

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Speaker 1: a Green.

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Speaker 2: Beret, all right.

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Speaker 1: And the focus was not as physical or is like

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Speaker 1: classic Johnny commando as you know seals or raiders or

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Speaker 1: rangers everybody else. It was more to be this like

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Speaker 1: intelligence gathering force, all right. And part of this this

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Speaker 1: goes into you know, having our little live go in

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Speaker 1: trade host nation guys, all that kind of stuff. But

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Speaker 1: this really does centerself around intelligence because even like before

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Speaker 1: the war started, we were doing what we call Ja says,

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Speaker 1: which is where we go to to friendly countries and

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Speaker 1: trade the little armies and stuff.

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Speaker 2: There's a huge intelligence mission that goes with that, all right.

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Speaker 2: They're not sending us to teach the Zimbabwe and you

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Speaker 2: know army privates how to shoot. They don't care about that,

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Speaker 2: all right.

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Speaker 1: They care about having dinner at the colonel's house or

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Speaker 1: whatever other thing that we're doing.

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Speaker 2: So this is like deeply steeped in our tradition.

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Speaker 1: The other thing that's especially relevant about Joe and what's

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Speaker 1: being said about him and that and this I ran conflict.

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Speaker 1: Is we also kind of unique. I think it's unique.

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Speaker 1: At least we have a regional focus in because of

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Speaker 1: the same things that we just talked about. We have

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Speaker 1: to we have to have a language, all right, it's

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Speaker 1: going to be narrowly aligned to the regional world that

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Speaker 1: we work in, especially before the before the GUS started.

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Speaker 1: We are never going to think about anything outside of

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Speaker 1: that region. People sometimes ask me best Uf like South America,

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Speaker 1: like I have no idea. Why would they tell me, Like,

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Speaker 1: you know, I was never going to step foot in Brazil.

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Speaker 2: It's not going to happen.

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Speaker 1: That regional alignment is also built for the very purpose

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Speaker 1: of You're going to spend your entire career focused on

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Speaker 1: this one narrow region.

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Speaker 2: You know everything about it.

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Speaker 3: And that's fascinating to me because what you know that

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Speaker 3: specialty does is it really gives you you know, And

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Speaker 3: let me just back up. You know, I was an

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Speaker 3: intel rep in my first platoon and in my second platoon,

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Speaker 3: and I remember like the first platoon my education seemed

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Speaker 3: almost I don't know, sophomoric if you will. My second platoon,

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Speaker 3: we you know, I did this real brief work up

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Speaker 3: in Kuwait, and then all of a sudden, I land

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Speaker 3: in Bagram and we seemed to be like in this

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Speaker 3: this intel vacuum, right, and then all of a sudden

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Speaker 3: I run into the nineteenth group guys. And there was

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Speaker 3: actually a guy from at nineteenth group who was there.

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Speaker 2: I think it's fifth group, right is the Middle East?

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Speaker 3: Who is a fifth guy, which joker and I want

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Speaker 3: you to talk about fifth group in a second. And

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Speaker 3: this guy actually used to train Mouhajedeen fighters in Pakistan

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Speaker 3: and on the border right to wage war against the

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Speaker 3: Russians and that. And he's like, man, no, no, no, no, no,

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna give And he gave me this book called

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Speaker 3: The Bear Trap, and it was about the our involvement

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Speaker 3: in the Russian and Russian Afghan War and how we

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Speaker 3: helped them with intelligence when we set up all these

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Speaker 3: intel networks and all this.

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Speaker 2: And I read that thing in a week and I

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Speaker 2: remember saying to my.

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Speaker 3: Chief, saying, my senior chief going, I have no idea

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Speaker 3: what I'm doing. Man, I'm not trained for this, Like

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Speaker 3: I don't. I feel like I'm you know, sucking my

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Speaker 3: thumb over here. Because collecting intelligence in and of itself

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Speaker 3: is this profound skill set that takes years and years

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Speaker 3: of development. And as I think about Joe Kent and

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Speaker 3: what his experience was for twenty plus years not only

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Speaker 3: at Fifth Group but also at Ground Branch at the

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Speaker 3: as a paramilitary case officer, his whole identity in involved

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Speaker 3: the Middle Eastern intelligence collections.

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Speaker 2: That understanding it maybe just rip on now a little bit. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: when that goes back to the end the difference between

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Speaker 2: forces too, and you know, one of the disparities things

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Speaker 2: people call it as f a slow and fact they're

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Speaker 2: kind of right, because it was also that was supposed

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Speaker 2: to be the part of the idea. It was supposed

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Speaker 2: to be an older man's force. It was supposed to

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Speaker 2: be guys like ten to fifteen years and especially early

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Speaker 2: in the war, that's how those teams were. You know,

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Speaker 2: if you showed up at like twenty six twenty seven,

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Speaker 2: you were sometimes a junior by like five six years

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Speaker 2: to everyone else under your detachment, because it was always

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Speaker 2: intended to and as you know now from you know,

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Speaker 2: doing intelligent throughout your career, it does take a long time.

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Speaker 2: That's not one that you can like teach a new

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Speaker 2: guy in like two or three years. I also know

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Speaker 2: this because I landed on We have teams that also

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Speaker 2: kind of specialize in intelligence stuff, and I landed on

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Speaker 2: one of those.

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Speaker 1: Actually, as my first ODA is by accident. It's kind

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Speaker 1: of it's not like I was so good at this thing.

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Speaker 1: It's just we were so shorthanded by the time I

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Speaker 1: got to my first ODA that I landed there, and

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Speaker 1: it was jarring. It was nothing like I wish. I

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Speaker 1: was basically the muscle for the guys that knew what

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Speaker 1: they were doing for a year while we you know

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Speaker 1: what I mean, like Avery Tarry get a machine gun

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Speaker 1: and sit in the car.

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Speaker 2: But it is it's an extremely it's an extremely different

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Speaker 2: skill set from again, a lot of the stuff that

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Speaker 2: we see in movies or the stuff that's actually fun,

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Speaker 2: like shooting and boiling shit up. But our culture especially

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Speaker 2: is extremely steeped in this. And as I recall also,

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Speaker 2: and I didn't check his bio or day, but I

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Speaker 2: know Joe pretty well.

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Speaker 1: Joe was in the Q course when nine to eleven happened,

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Speaker 1: So when he showed up to a team right after that,

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Speaker 1: you know, six months or a year after that, he

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Speaker 1: would have been also with an old school Fifth Group team.

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Speaker 1: All right, we're not talking you know, two thousand and

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Speaker 1: two thousand and nine, when half the guys are a

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Speaker 1: fresh out of the Q course because we've taken casualties.

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Speaker 1: We're talking still steeped in that old culture where they

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Speaker 1: everybody knew everything. The team starters is gonna be grilling

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Speaker 1: you as the new guy about you know, what kind

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Speaker 1: of bread do they eat? And you know, lahore that day,

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Speaker 1: you know, and you have to know the answer because

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Speaker 1: these guys all do exuse they've been doing it for

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Speaker 1: fifteen years.

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Speaker 2: Of course they know.

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Speaker 1: It's just an entirely different kind of mindset. And then

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Speaker 1: also for Joe Togo to Fifth Group, especially pre war guys,

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Speaker 1: all right, Fifth and Third were kind of the odd

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Speaker 1: ducks out because we were the only guys wouldn't know

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Speaker 1: where that was fun.

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Speaker 2: That would be.

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Speaker 1: Fifth Group has the Middle East. Third Group has Africa.

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Speaker 1: But because of that, Fifth Group has had the Middle

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Speaker 1: East as an AO since like nineteen eighty two. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so for decades prior to they've been going over anything

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Speaker 1: that anything weird, this happening in the Middle East.

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Speaker 2: They're doing it, you know, traded Jordaani and commandos.

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Speaker 1: There were Fifth Group guys in Afghanistan a long time ago,

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Speaker 1: like before this war, like when the other war was happening,

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Speaker 1: there were Fifth Group has there to say that somebody

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Speaker 1: from Fifth Group, especially if that era doesn't understand the

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Speaker 1: Middle East, is the most foolish thing that you could say,

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Speaker 1: and they understand it better than anybody else.

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Speaker 3: That that, for me is kind of the the bizarre

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Speaker 3: reaction to all of this, right obviously, you know, I'm

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Speaker 3: not even gonna discuss calling this guy trader and a

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Speaker 3: leaker and all that I know, and anybody that's carried

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Speaker 3: a top secret security clearance a t S SCI clearance

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Speaker 3: just in in in the regular regular in in in

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Speaker 3: special operations, much less all the way up to a

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Speaker 3: chief warrant right that's handling the most sensitive level. And

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Speaker 3: then obviously the level of clearance he gets while working

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Speaker 3: with ground branch is even.

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Speaker 2: A whole another.

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Speaker 3: So can you can you describe one the progression of

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Speaker 3: moving up the ranks in an O D A team

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Speaker 3: and then and then obviously what it takes to move

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Speaker 3: into a chief warrant officer positions.

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Speaker 1: So this is this is actually hugely important too, So

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Speaker 1: he goes over and does a couple of tours as

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Speaker 1: I don't even know where's I think it might have

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Speaker 1: been a problem or something, all right. But again, our

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Speaker 1: warrn officers and special forces, they actually have their own

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Speaker 1: warn officer academy. And the whole reason that we have

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Speaker 1: warrant officers was to be the continuity on the team,

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Speaker 1: all right. So it's to basically match a team sergeant,

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Speaker 1: which is like a platoon chief as far as experience goes.

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Speaker 1: But the other thing that warrant specializes in is the

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Speaker 1: intelligence stuff. Oh my god, it's amazing, wow wow.

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Speaker 2: That's most of their training.

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Speaker 1: At the chief warnan officer course, they learn a little

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Speaker 1: bit of bullshit about an officer and put their uniform

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Speaker 1: modit stuff, but mostly they are the guy that runs

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Speaker 1: all the intelligence collection, all right. They are basically the

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Speaker 1: boss of the eighteen fox, who's the intelligence sergeant all right.

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Speaker 1: And if you're on a specialized humid team, all right,

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Speaker 1: that warrant officer is like the master of all the

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Speaker 1: little you know, humid guys. So that's their bready butter.

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Speaker 1: That's you know, another year one core where they specialize

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Speaker 1: in those things to get selected as a worn officer.

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Speaker 1: You had to do some crazy stuff, all right. You

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Speaker 1: had to have like a lot of recommendation, like your

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Speaker 1: entire chain of command, all right, not just the enlisted guys,

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Speaker 1: but the officers as well as the warn officers. It's

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Speaker 1: a process and it's not undertaken lightly. And yeah, you

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Speaker 1: have to be a stellar performer for the most part

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Speaker 1: to even get into that program.

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Speaker 2: All right.

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Speaker 3: Before we get into the next aspect of this madness

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Speaker 3: right here, I just really want to talk about how

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Speaker 2: Who Yah, love you guys.

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Speaker 3: All right, all right, So now let's talk about Iraq

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Speaker 3: in the time that Joe is serving in Iraq as

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Speaker 3: a Green Beret. How did you guys, because I know

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Speaker 3: from what I've heard is that not only from from

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Speaker 3: your side, but our side as well too, that around five,

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Speaker 3: like after Fallujah oh five or Battle Remadi, moving through there,

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Speaker 3: there was some animosity that had developed between between the

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Speaker 3: agency and soft and and so I think the d

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Speaker 3: i A and then those programs where were they really

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Speaker 3: started to train our guys to run their own intelligence

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Speaker 3: networks and to start going out and take their areas

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Speaker 3: that they were running and build their own intel networks.

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Speaker 3: So can you describe what that that battle space was

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Speaker 3: like in the challenges and and and how complex those

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Speaker 3: relationships would be with local warlords or local you know,

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Speaker 3: clerics or whatever it was.

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Speaker 2: Right, right, is as much as I can. And you know,

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Speaker 2: I was a pretty young guy around that period too,

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Speaker 2: but I was there. I did my first tour at

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Speaker 2: s F in two thousand and six.

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Speaker 1: So it was it was both some animosity and a

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Speaker 1: lot of that was actually driven by by Donald Rumsfield

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Speaker 1: because he basically owned the DoD and he was tired

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Speaker 1: of the the AG.

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Speaker 2: Doing their things.

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Speaker 1: There was some conflict, but there was also some like

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Speaker 1: this is too much for everybody to handle, right, because

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Speaker 1: the CIA self hasn't had to handle you know, a

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Speaker 1: real war zone war plus all the other bullshit they

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Speaker 1: have to do in I don't know, fifty years. You know,

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Speaker 1: there was some presidence in Vietnam too, but they haven't

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Speaker 1: like really had to do both things in a really

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Speaker 1: long time.

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Speaker 2: So there was a There was actually a lot of

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Speaker 2: cross breeding too.

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Speaker 1: There was a lot of our guys on the intelligence

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Speaker 1: side going up at likeland, going to the farm like

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Speaker 1: full up like the old case officer program, and a

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Speaker 1: lot of overlap with that. Now, there was also some conflict,

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Speaker 1: as there's always want to be. There was the growth

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Speaker 1: of CIA Muscle around that same time, which some how

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Speaker 1: they got funded for and sanctioned four and maybe they

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Speaker 1: pulled the out like we need a card, which is

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Speaker 1: mostly our guys retired. At the same time we were

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Speaker 1: growing our own intelligence network. It's almost like we built

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Speaker 1: parallel things where the agency is still a little bit

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Speaker 1: better to intelligence, but a little bit weaker on muscle,

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Speaker 1: and we're a lot better on muscle, but we're still

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Speaker 1: a little bit weaker on intelligence.

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Speaker 2: But we did build a huge amount of overlapping things.

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Speaker 2: The only time it's really come into conflict is if

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Speaker 2: there was not good what's the word I'm looking for here,

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Speaker 2: not good cross pollination? All right, you go actually hit

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Speaker 2: something that somebody else was using for a source or

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Speaker 2: vice versa. Usually that stuff got deconflicted though, but.

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Speaker 1: For us in our little areas, especially so especially in

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Speaker 1: the Iraq place, they again try to just break down

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Speaker 1: the country into like, okay, this Jewal section, so you

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Speaker 1: get to know everything about that and hopefully you'll rotate

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Speaker 1: back there multiple times as you come back and know

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Speaker 1: that country and actually know one of the places that

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Speaker 1: Joe was that we weren't there at the same time,

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Speaker 1: beca we were in different groups.

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Speaker 2: I was in nineteenth the time that he was in fifth,

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Speaker 2: but he was right down the road for me. So

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Speaker 2: we both spent a lot of time in Shia country

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Speaker 2: down by by Dewandia and Carbala in those years. Okay.

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Speaker 3: One of the things that I'm hearing a ton of

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Speaker 3: obviously is there is a tremendous amount of people saying

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Speaker 3: that Iran has been you know, hunting Americans and going

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Speaker 3: after Americans for you know, for forty seven years, right,

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Speaker 3: and in particular, I've seen a couple people posting today

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Speaker 3: you know that the Iranians were really targeting Americans essentially

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Speaker 3: on you know, whether it was in eastern.

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Speaker 2: Iraq or or around Baghdad.

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Speaker 3: Can you can you talk about that threat level and

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Speaker 3: how that affected operations.

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Speaker 2: No, No, that's absolutely true.

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Speaker 1: One thing I won't discount from the people that are saying, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, I RAN's been at war.

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Speaker 2: With us for you know, forty seven years or whatever.

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Speaker 1: The same thing as Second Reco I walked past seventeen

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Speaker 1: paddles on our quarter deck from our dudes that got

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Speaker 1: killed in the Bay Route bombing, but especially as that

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Speaker 1: plus day at Raq War. Yeah, there was a huge

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Speaker 1: amount of Iranian weapons that came across where they did

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Speaker 1: send over most of the e FP, as well as

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Speaker 1: the expertise to do it later on in a direct

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Speaker 1: ash company.

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Speaker 2: You know, I've we've we've hit.

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Speaker 1: Cachets and found your brand new made you know, pKa

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Speaker 1: was still have the factory grease on him and the

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Speaker 1: safeties and FARSI.

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Speaker 2: But my my answer to this has always been especially well,

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Speaker 2: let me rephrase that, my answer to this has been

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Speaker 2: since I've been older, what would I do if China

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Speaker 2: invaded Canada and I had a machine gun factory? I

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Speaker 2: would do the same fucking thing bay Root.

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Speaker 1: That's a little bit before my time, but I mean

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Speaker 1: I can kind of go fucking around and somebody else's neighborhood.

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Speaker 2: Like this is what's going to happen.

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Speaker 1: So, yes, I've lost friends. I rety at peace too.

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Speaker 1: Do I do?

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Speaker 2: I have a lot of love for Iran? I No,

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Speaker 2: I don't. But I can also understand why they did it. Well.

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Speaker 3: I appreciate that answer, because that's that's that's these are

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Speaker 3: not you know, it's not I think everybody in these

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Speaker 3: circumstances when somebody like a joke Kent has a public

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Speaker 3: reaction to to policy there, it's it's what can you

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Speaker 3: find to discredit his rationale reasoning, even without knowing his

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Speaker 3: legitimate reasoning, because we haven't heard from Joe Kent yet, right,

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Speaker 3: you know, all right, so let's move on from his

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Speaker 3: time in in in Special Forces to what it takes

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Speaker 3: to make the transition to go and move over to

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Speaker 3: be a paramilitary case officer for ground Branch.

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Speaker 2: Let's not forget one of the thing there though, too.

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Speaker 1: And I'll only say this because he's publicly disclosed it

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Speaker 1: on the Sean Ryan Show two years ago. Right, he

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Speaker 1: didn't just go straight over. He went up to our

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Speaker 1: other SMU first, which is arguably, my opinion the best

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Speaker 1: intelligence guys that there are maybe even better in the

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Speaker 1: a lot of ways. And those guys are gangsters. And

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Speaker 1: that's actually to me more important than him going to

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Speaker 1: the ground branch is I actually went to that selection

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Speaker 1: and I failed it. But that shit happens. That is

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Speaker 1: the weirdest place you will ever go, even just on

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Speaker 1: the selection side of things. I was there for like

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Speaker 1: thirty days. It's so fucking weird and brutally on par

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Speaker 1: with anything else, with Delta selection or dev group or

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Speaker 1: anything else. So just to get through that, you're gonna

415
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Speaker 1: have to be a tough and capable son of a bitch,

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Speaker 1: all right, and then to go do that job. I mean, wow,

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Speaker 1: hats off. I mean absolutely hats off. So he did

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Speaker 1: that for a number of years before he retired and

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Speaker 1: then immediately walked across the street to ground breage. I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's incredible. That's basically if you look at a military

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Speaker 1: career and you say, what's the most gangster ship that

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Speaker 1: you could possibly do, it's you know, one path of

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Speaker 1: the most game you can do is well, I was

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Speaker 1: in ranging Battalion that was a fifth group for the war,

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Speaker 1: and then I was a chief officer of fifth group,

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Speaker 1: and I was in the other thing that we don't

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Speaker 1: talk about, trappers.

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Speaker 2: Come on for the rest of us, Come on, dog dude.

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Speaker 2: I look at my career and I just I'm like,

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Speaker 2: oh my god, command, I'm pretty fucking gangster.

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Speaker 1: Until I see a picture of Joe Kenn Like, fuck man,

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Speaker 1: all right, you know what, Jami's pretty good.

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Speaker 2: JV is pretty good too, fucking that's right. That's that's it.

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Speaker 3: And I'm like, I'm I'm in like freshman, I'm freshman

435
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Speaker 3: football right now. So so yeah, so I and I'm

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Speaker 3: I'm glad you brought that up. I didn't know whether

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Speaker 3: I should he disclosed it. Yeah, yeah, I recognize, and

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Speaker 3: and I know several guys that were there and right

439
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Speaker 3: they Yeah, it's it's a different level.

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Speaker 2: I really believe it's a different level incredible respect.

441
00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:08,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, and and so even with that in the intel

442
00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:12,080
Speaker 3: access and collection they have there, and then you even

443
00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:15,280
Speaker 3: morph it into over the ground branch, it's.

444
00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:17,160
Speaker 2: Like he has been.

445
00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:23,120
Speaker 3: He was up until his resignation this morning, or yet

446
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:27,320
Speaker 3: whenever it really took place, he has been given the

447
00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:35,080
Speaker 3: ultimate responsibility with operational intelligence for his entire adult life.

448
00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:40,119
Speaker 2: Exactly. Yes, per look, this is there's.

449
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:41,639
Speaker 1: Some of those things like you know, I had a

450
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:42,639
Speaker 1: TSSCI for you.

451
00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:44,359
Speaker 2: Know whatever the last six seven years.

452
00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:47,399
Speaker 1: That is nothing compared to the kind of shit that

453
00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:49,920
Speaker 1: they're getting into over at the thing. Right, And then

454
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:52,240
Speaker 1: we go to the agency to ground branch, specifically, we're

455
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:53,840
Speaker 1: talking like I don't even know what the fuck your

456
00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:56,000
Speaker 1: clerics are culled because that's how classified they are, you

457
00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:58,480
Speaker 1: know, what I mean, like he's playing at a completely different

458
00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:03,080
Speaker 1: level with with access and with trust that in these things.

459
00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:05,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it should normal people can't even understand

460
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:07,560
Speaker 2: that's right, that's.

461
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:11,280
Speaker 3: Right, and and you know, I you know, then there's

462
00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:17,959
Speaker 3: this other component that I think even adds another insane

463
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:23,960
Speaker 3: layer to the Joe Kent story of his his commitment

464
00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:28,560
Speaker 3: to America and more more importantly, his commitment to America

465
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:32,840
Speaker 3: in the Middle East. That that's the other thing too, right, Right,

466
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:36,480
Speaker 3: He's he's obviously he's worked, you know, all around Iraq.

467
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:41,040
Speaker 3: He's worked probably in Afghanistan. He's certainly worked maybe in Syria,

468
00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:46,080
Speaker 3: he's worked in Pakistan. Who I mean, every single conceivable

469
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:52,959
Speaker 3: layer of of the complicated nature of what what foreign

470
00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:57,000
Speaker 3: policy and and and and in our enemies, what their

471
00:24:57,080 --> 00:25:01,240
Speaker 3: objectives have been in the region. There's not many people

472
00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:03,840
Speaker 3: that have have have experienced more of that. Now, the

473
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:07,560
Speaker 3: layer right beneath that is that his wife, his last

474
00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:12,560
Speaker 3: his late wife, Shannon Kent, who was with one of

475
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:15,760
Speaker 3: my good friends, Scottie Wurtz when they were blown up

476
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:21,040
Speaker 3: in Syria. His wife even had high level access, right

477
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:25,320
Speaker 3: and and and and so it was it was a

478
00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:29,000
Speaker 3: component of his entire existence. It's not like Joe went

479
00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:32,360
Speaker 3: home and didn't discuss what he was doing with his

480
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:36,359
Speaker 3: wife because his wife was deployed in different areas and

481
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:37,800
Speaker 3: they'd come home and see each other.

482
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:40,440
Speaker 2: They were they were in the same unit.

483
00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:44,880
Speaker 1: So again, this is one of those things that almost

484
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:49,000
Speaker 1: can't happen, but it rarely can. They're at the same

485
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:51,639
Speaker 1: special mission unit, which has also been disclose when not

486
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:54,800
Speaker 1: spilling the beans on that uh, with the same types

487
00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:57,320
Speaker 1: of clearances, doing the same shit in the same AO.

488
00:25:57,840 --> 00:25:58,080
Speaker 2: Yeah.

489
00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:03,280
Speaker 1: No, I mean, this is sae. It's it's crazy. There's

490
00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:06,560
Speaker 1: probably not arguably human being. A wife knows more about

491
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:07,920
Speaker 1: what we've been doing in the Middle East for the

492
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:09,280
Speaker 1: last twenty five years than Joe kin.

493
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:14,760
Speaker 3: I mean yeah, And for me, that really becomes the

494
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:19,480
Speaker 3: precipice of why the president wanted him in that role,

495
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:23,840
Speaker 3: in particular as to be able to support Tulci Gabbard,

496
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:28,919
Speaker 3: who who didn't have a tremendous amount of background or

497
00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:35,560
Speaker 3: history or understanding of how these different terrorist organizations or governments,

498
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:39,320
Speaker 3: you know, whether it's you know, Lebanon, Syria, Egypt, the

499
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:44,480
Speaker 3: Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas has blow, whatever it is. Joe Kent

500
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:50,360
Speaker 3: can articulate a definitive historical reference and idea of what

501
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:53,280
Speaker 3: their operations have looked like, like you said, for twenty

502
00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:57,359
Speaker 3: five years. That's why he was I believe that's why

503
00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:00,720
Speaker 3: he was brought in to support Tulsie in the position

504
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:01,600
Speaker 3: is she was in.

505
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:04,040
Speaker 2: Do you do you think that's a oh no, great evaluation.

506
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:04,920
Speaker 2: Absolutely agree.

507
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:07,080
Speaker 1: In fact, I think he probably actually warned her for

508
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:10,320
Speaker 1: Tolsey's position, but knew he would not survive the confirmation

509
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:12,560
Speaker 1: process for that, but could be put in as a

510
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:14,920
Speaker 1: supporting role, which is oftentimes better anyway you have the

511
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:18,120
Speaker 1: face and then you have some brains behind it as

512
00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:20,280
Speaker 1: a stat that can really prop that up. And not

513
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:22,640
Speaker 1: that Toli is not that Tilsey doesn't know what she's doing,

514
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:26,280
Speaker 1: just she's not playing the same level as Joe in terms.

515
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:29,360
Speaker 2: Of like the Middle East specifically. That's right, that's right.

516
00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:37,679
Speaker 3: The great mystery right now, obviously is you know in

517
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:41,399
Speaker 3: the question that immediately I hit based on reading, his

518
00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 3: response was, Okay, Iraq is not is not an imminent threat? Now,

519
00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 3: obviously he's seen some intelligence and he's he's and there's

520
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 3: people saying he's been kept out of briefs recently and

521
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:01,879
Speaker 3: they're putting him on the side lines, but it's it

522
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:07,040
Speaker 3: doesn't make any sense. And so you know, as I

523
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:10,880
Speaker 3: hear that statement, my immediate response I go to, well,

524
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:15,600
Speaker 3: last summer when we did the strikes after the Twelve

525
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:19,600
Speaker 3: Day War and we hit their nuclear facilities apparently in quotations,

526
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:23,440
Speaker 3: decimating it, right, yeah, right, right, that was the thing.

527
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:27,960
Speaker 3: And then and then you know, the fast forward what

528
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:31,920
Speaker 3: transpired over the next what eight nine months until we

529
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 3: attacked recently. You know, obviously the only question I might

530
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:45,280
Speaker 3: have is perhaps he wasn't privy to the political negotiations

531
00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:49,840
Speaker 3: that were taking place with the with the Iranian political infrastructure,

532
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 3: but still he would have access to what their threats

533
00:28:54,400 --> 00:29:00,840
Speaker 3: are because he's also tracking as working with Homeland Scarity

534
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:04,760
Speaker 3: based on his testimony we heard a month ago, and

535
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:11,760
Speaker 3: suggesting there are two to sixteen thousand uh A terrorist

536
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:15,360
Speaker 3: sympathized or actual terrorists in the country themselves.

537
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:18,120
Speaker 2: So he's tracking the threat here as well too.

538
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:22,120
Speaker 1: Right, well, and he's the director too. It's not like

539
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:23,680
Speaker 1: he's got to go home and get on Google. Right,

540
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:25,520
Speaker 1: he's the director. He can go talk you know, you

541
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:28,000
Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like this's neasy conversation you know,

542
00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:30,880
Speaker 1: you're like, it's like us working in the same town

543
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:32,960
Speaker 1: at the same time, Like, hey, David, I need to.

544
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 2: Know what the fuck is going on.

545
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:35,800
Speaker 1: Like okay, man, here's the let's not run through the

546
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:37,240
Speaker 1: redneck which is slower than Christmas.

547
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:40,080
Speaker 2: Like, here's the ship, man, here's the deal. Like thanks, buddy, cool, awesome,

548
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:42,160
Speaker 2: here's what I got. Let's go. Yeah.

549
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 1: No, it's insane to think that he's, yeah, even has

550
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 1: been cut out of the even if that's true, he's

551
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:50,080
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know they suspended the clearance of

552
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 1: the director of the National as Prepasteria.

553
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:54,600
Speaker 2: But let's say that they did, He's still going to

554
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:55,520
Speaker 2: know a lot of stuff.

555
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:57,720
Speaker 1: It turns out, all right, he's still gonna have a

556
00:29:57,760 --> 00:29:59,400
Speaker 1: lot of people that he's talking to.

557
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 2: So that whole thing is just absolutely insane. Okay.

558
00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:09,640
Speaker 3: So obviously we we have very personal reactions to it,

559
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:12,239
Speaker 3: and I think if you've paid attention, uh, you know,

560
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:15,959
Speaker 3: online today, from the backlash in particular, I think the

561
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:20,360
Speaker 3: majority coming from g Watt guys that you know, obviously

562
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:24,840
Speaker 3: you know, hold Joe and Joe's career at the highest

563
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:26,040
Speaker 3: possible level.

564
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 2: I mean, like you and I both you know, I'm a.

565
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:36,280
Speaker 3: I must have direct messaged him like eight times in

566
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:39,280
Speaker 3: the last two years, just being like, dude, so proud

567
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:43,720
Speaker 3: of you, so honored, you know, keep going and and

568
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:47,880
Speaker 3: and what what takes place?

569
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:51,320
Speaker 2: Now? What in your mind? What what advice would you

570
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:52,400
Speaker 2: give Joe.

571
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:57,920
Speaker 3: Being now that you know the machine, the political machine

572
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:00,480
Speaker 3: is coming at him heavily.

573
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:03,520
Speaker 2: What what would you what advice would you give Joe

574
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 2: Man one?

575
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:08,440
Speaker 1: I think he knew this was coming. I mean, I

576
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:10,280
Speaker 1: mean obviously he knew this was coming. He knew they

577
00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:14,200
Speaker 1: were gonna come hard, hard for him. My advice would be,

578
00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:17,200
Speaker 1: you know, just stand your ground and know that you

579
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 1: boys got you back, because we clearly do you. We've

580
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:23,160
Speaker 1: seen divisions happen today just in the online space and

581
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:25,880
Speaker 1: stuff that, like you said, has been This has been

582
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:29,280
Speaker 1: the most polarizing thing that I think as as possibly

583
00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:33,280
Speaker 1: ever happened, as far as like you know, veterans versus

584
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:36,480
Speaker 1: everybody else. And it's been also hysterical to watch people

585
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 1: call Joe and you and the pacifists and cowards all

586
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:43,640
Speaker 1: this other bullshit like com I.

587
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:47,000
Speaker 3: Got called the Communists that was the one I got.

588
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 2: I got f you comedy that was fantastic.

589
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:56,000
Speaker 1: Joe Kent pacifist, like that makes that's completely him.

590
00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:59,440
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's more about deal and death.

591
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 3: It's fucking anybody that's in the entire administration.

592
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:07,880
Speaker 1: He could have done one tour fifth Group in two

593
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:09,680
Speaker 1: thousand and five and no more about killing then all

594
00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 1: these other clients put together, you know.

595
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:14,320
Speaker 2: It was not what it was back that.

596
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:19,040
Speaker 1: Yes, it's completely absurd, but it's been telling though too.

597
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:23,680
Speaker 1: It's it's pretty wild, and it's it's funny. The grunts

598
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:25,719
Speaker 1: I feel like here split about fifty and fifty on

599
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:28,120
Speaker 1: support or you know he's a past fist comedy now

600
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:30,880
Speaker 1: or whatever was in whild those most of the soft bros,

601
00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:32,920
Speaker 1: most of the guys that were like career dudes, have

602
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:36,320
Speaker 1: been like firmly in his camp, which I'm also very

603
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:39,360
Speaker 1: happy to see. You know, I didn't I didn't know

604
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:41,440
Speaker 1: how the support was going to go, But it's been

605
00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:44,520
Speaker 1: wildly in Joe's court.

606
00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:47,680
Speaker 2: And I think this is something that's important.

607
00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:55,040
Speaker 1: It's you would think it might be weird for us guys,

608
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:58,240
Speaker 1: soft veterans to be kind of opposing this. I ran

609
00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:00,800
Speaker 1: more like, this is stupid, and it's not that we

610
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:02,760
Speaker 1: don't want the young guys to get their cibs or

611
00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:05,680
Speaker 1: you know, combat Action rimons whatever bullshit. Just we we

612
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:09,760
Speaker 1: saw this completely play out before twenty five years ago,

613
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:13,320
Speaker 1: twenty three years ago. It's the same playbook as the

614
00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:15,760
Speaker 1: build up to Iraq, and we know how that went.

615
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:20,120
Speaker 1: And I just I personally don't see a good reason

616
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:23,040
Speaker 1: for this war with Iran. Obviously, Joe kitt doesn't see

617
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:24,959
Speaker 1: a good war for this reason with I Ran. And

618
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:27,160
Speaker 1: here's the funny thing. I'm making my decisions having I've

619
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:28,640
Speaker 1: not had a clearance in ten years, and you know,

620
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:30,920
Speaker 1: sitting in my garage, we didn Drudge Report like everybody

621
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:32,040
Speaker 1: else or err Edge.

622
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:33,840
Speaker 2: You know, I'm dating myself with the George Board. I

623
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:35,040
Speaker 2: don't know that shit exists anymore.

624
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:40,520
Speaker 1: Joe is the goddamn director of the National counter Terrorism Center.

625
00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:42,760
Speaker 1: He still got like, you know, the Gamba level clearances

626
00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:45,040
Speaker 1: and shit, I guarantee you he's seen things we haven't

627
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:46,040
Speaker 1: even thought about.

628
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:48,239
Speaker 2: And that's right. He seems to think this I Ran

629
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:51,080
Speaker 2: was a bad idea too, So I.

630
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:56,600
Speaker 3: Agree with you, man, my, you know, obviously, I I

631
00:33:56,800 --> 00:34:00,600
Speaker 3: go back to the feeling I fell, you know, the

632
00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:04,840
Speaker 3: month after nine to eleven, the feeling I felt when

633
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:07,920
Speaker 3: I hit the ground in May at two thousand and two,

634
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:13,040
Speaker 3: you know, and how over the next nine years from

635
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:17,200
Speaker 3: you know, my last deployment to Islamabad in the fall

636
00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:21,560
Speaker 3: of twenty eleven, Like just in that short period of time,

637
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:28,319
Speaker 3: I began to realize, oh wait, maybe maybe what they're

638
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:35,160
Speaker 3: telling everybody isn't exactly accurate, right, And so I what

639
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:41,440
Speaker 3: I'm trying, what I would like is one that consolidated

640
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:46,680
Speaker 3: support of Joe if if if if not for his

641
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:50,879
Speaker 3: courage and his stance to go against the grain, right,

642
00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:53,640
Speaker 3: he had the ultimate position, you know, he could have

643
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:57,440
Speaker 3: parlayed this into be doing whatever he wanted, maybe becoming

644
00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:00,760
Speaker 3: the director of the CIA, the director of National whatever

645
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:01,160
Speaker 3: it is.

646
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:05,000
Speaker 2: He he chose his.

647
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:08,640
Speaker 3: His integrity and his beliefs over all that, and so

648
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:12,319
Speaker 3: I think at a minimum that's commendable for all veterans,

649
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:21,239
Speaker 3: for everybody around. What what what happens next though in

650
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:26,960
Speaker 3: this playbook is young men have a high potentiality to

651
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:28,200
Speaker 3: be killed.

652
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:31,399
Speaker 2: We've already seen what we've already seen.

653
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:35,040
Speaker 3: There was the four people that died on the base,

654
00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:38,080
Speaker 3: and then there was the refueler. The six people there

655
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:41,440
Speaker 3: have died. I'm sure there's more injuries. We haven't been

656
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:47,320
Speaker 3: told about, you know, and there's a lot of uh,

657
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:50,600
Speaker 3: there's probably a lot of backlash taking place in service

658
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:51,320
Speaker 3: as well.

659
00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:52,439
Speaker 2: Too, Oh I'm sure. Yeah.

660
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:59,160
Speaker 3: But like what I what I really hope is that

661
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:04,560
Speaker 3: Joe can find a platform whatever that is articulate his

662
00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:08,759
Speaker 3: reasons without breaking his top secret clearance, without you know,

663
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:11,719
Speaker 3: fueling the fire of this stupid he's a leaker, he's

664
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:13,560
Speaker 3: a trader, all that bullshit.

665
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:15,640
Speaker 2: Getting rolled up at a non disclosure Yeah, something like that.

666
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:20,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right, that's right, and imprisoned, right, right, And

667
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:26,600
Speaker 3: he can make the case for not only American young

668
00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:30,719
Speaker 3: men but also the American people to start to think

669
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:36,640
Speaker 3: rationally about another potentially you know, twenty year war and Iran,

670
00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:39,399
Speaker 3: because I don't know about you, but I don't think

671
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:42,160
Speaker 3: Iran is a quick deal in any reason.

672
00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:44,920
Speaker 1: Oh god, no, well, man, I think you have to

673
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:47,719
Speaker 1: look at it from this angle too, You've misure Yeah,

674
00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:49,239
Speaker 1: And also, yeah, I do not want to see a

675
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:51,720
Speaker 1: land invasion of Iran. That seems like a terrible idea.

676
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:54,879
Speaker 1: But my I guess I'm gonna go back to two

677
00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:57,520
Speaker 1: points one. You know, people bring up all historical stuff

678
00:36:57,560 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 1: and the EFPs in Iraq.

679
00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:01,480
Speaker 2: And blah blah blah. Yes that's true.

680
00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:03,880
Speaker 1: But then Isis came along and they were our problem

681
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:06,439
Speaker 1: for about six seven years, and I ran, really wasn't.

682
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:07,319
Speaker 2: What has I ran?

683
00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:11,480
Speaker 1: What has been an escalation against us, the United States

684
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:16,280
Speaker 1: of America in the last ten years? Did they shoot

685
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:17,160
Speaker 1: a couple of drones?

686
00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:17,839
Speaker 2: Are bad?

687
00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:20,520
Speaker 1: I don't even remember. I can't, I don't. I don't

688
00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:22,800
Speaker 1: see them as the threat, especially in the last decade.

689
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:25,560
Speaker 1: You can't pull this like it happened one time. So

690
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:27,840
Speaker 1: we have to you know, are we still mad at

691
00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:30,200
Speaker 1: Germany for you know nineteen forty four, were still mad

692
00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:33,480
Speaker 1: in Japan for you know nineteen forty forty one.

693
00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:36,879
Speaker 2: No, we're not. Some people are yeah, well okay, yeah,

694
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:38,319
Speaker 2: some people won't drive it to you. What I get it.

695
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:41,759
Speaker 2: For the most part, as nation states, you have to

696
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:44,560
Speaker 2: move on. Our alliances shipped and change. Are your enemies

697
00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:45,279
Speaker 2: shipped and change?

698
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:46,440
Speaker 3: Right with that?

699
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:48,960
Speaker 1: Also, I'm not anti war in the slightest. I'm this

700
00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:51,640
Speaker 1: anti stupid wars. Like you tell me that we want

701
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:53,359
Speaker 1: to go to war with the cartels in Mexico who

702
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:55,600
Speaker 1: are actually poisoning America. I'm down, all right, And I

703
00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:57,759
Speaker 1: know you're minnign die in that too. And you know what,

704
00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:01,239
Speaker 1: I accept those terms, all right. If they needed me

705
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:02,680
Speaker 1: to do that one, I probably would do it again.

706
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:04,080
Speaker 1: You know, I'm a little old for that ship, but

707
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:07,399
Speaker 1: you know whatever, that's the thing.

708
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:10,720
Speaker 3: That that's the thing, like, that's the that's the argument

709
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:14,279
Speaker 3: vent and all the cartels in China. We've killed more

710
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:17,839
Speaker 3: Americans on our own soil right than Iran has ever

711
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:21,359
Speaker 3: killed anybody on our own soil. As why aren't we

712
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:24,520
Speaker 3: bombing the ship out of Mexico and bombing the ship

713
00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:28,160
Speaker 3: out of the logic of these arguments?

714
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:30,520
Speaker 2: Is what is missing? Right for me?

715
00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:34,720
Speaker 1: Even if we wanted to go protect Christians from bocoh

716
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:37,279
Speaker 1: ram Man, I'd be down. I would be one percent down.

717
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:40,280
Speaker 1: I just personally don't see I Ran as the threat.

718
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 1: For the last ten years, it seems like they've been

719
00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 1: kind of good boys over in the corner and they

720
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:47,799
Speaker 1: haven't really haven't really antagonized this. So if we have

721
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:50,120
Speaker 1: a limited amount of resources, way limited amount of things

722
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:51,680
Speaker 1: we can do to me attacking I Ran, is this

723
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 1: one of the stupidest things we can do?

724
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:56,240
Speaker 2: You know? Awesome?

725
00:38:57,640 --> 00:39:03,719
Speaker 3: All right, last question for you, what what would your

726
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:10,560
Speaker 3: recommendation to for the administration on how to handle uh this.

727
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:15,040
Speaker 3: You know, do they go out and pick another g

728
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:18,680
Speaker 3: watt pipe hitter put them in the position? Do they

729
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:21,880
Speaker 3: do they put a lid on any negative?

730
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:24,040
Speaker 2: Uh talk about Joe.

731
00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:26,959
Speaker 3: I mean, if you were in charge and you had

732
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:30,680
Speaker 3: someone break ranks, what what would your response?

733
00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:32,840
Speaker 2: What do you think your risk? What? What do you

734
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:35,839
Speaker 2: think the I'm trying to figure out the right way

735
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:36,720
Speaker 2: to just the question.

736
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:38,680
Speaker 1: There's a reason they should never let me be in

737
00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:44,400
Speaker 1: charge of things like this. Well, okay, I think this

738
00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:47,200
Speaker 1: all right. I think if you go after Joe Kinn,

739
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:50,880
Speaker 1: especially Joe kin who has arguably the most gold plated

740
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:55,319
Speaker 1: reputation of any man since since MacArthur in eighteen forty five,

741
00:39:56,239 --> 00:39:59,200
Speaker 1: thank you. If you come after him, all right, he's

742
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:03,440
Speaker 1: going to fucking bury you, all right. This guy has

743
00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:08,439
Speaker 1: lived his entire life fighting our nation's battles and had

744
00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:11,240
Speaker 1: his wife killed in action fighting these same enemies.

745
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:13,200
Speaker 2: Like, of all the people in the world that you

746
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:15,040
Speaker 2: don't want to screw with, is this guy all right?

747
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:16,280
Speaker 2: You should just leave.

748
00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:17,799
Speaker 1: Him the fuck alone, let him go to what he's

749
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:20,120
Speaker 1: gonna do, all right, and just deal with it as

750
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:21,160
Speaker 1: damage control.

751
00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:25,600
Speaker 2: If they try to go after him. I don't think that's.

752
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:27,839
Speaker 1: Gonna go the way that this is the most obi

753
00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:29,640
Speaker 1: wan person's ever walked to the earth. If he strike

754
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:31,880
Speaker 1: him down and the boys will come out of the

755
00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:34,719
Speaker 1: fucking would work. Uh So, I think that's all a

756
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:38,160
Speaker 1: terrible plan. If I was the administration, I would just

757
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:39,880
Speaker 1: let him go do his shit. I would bring in

758
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:42,839
Speaker 1: somebody else. I would maybe have guest shit talking about

759
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:44,719
Speaker 1: a press conference a couple of times and just kind

760
00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:46,200
Speaker 1: of try to laugh it off as that the Trump

761
00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:49,759
Speaker 1: administration does, and go about my terrible fucking war. And

762
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:51,279
Speaker 1: I ran, it's not going the way I say it is,

763
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:54,640
Speaker 1: and uh, and hope everybody's distracted enough to forget about it.

764
00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:59,319
Speaker 2: That's good advice. That's good advice. Well, Clay, thank you

765
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:00,560
Speaker 2: so much for hopping on.

766
00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:03,640
Speaker 3: I know it's, uh, it's later than the normal and

767
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 3: you've got a family to attend to, But I just

768
00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:10,239
Speaker 3: really wanted to get your expert opinion on Joe's background,

769
00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:14,360
Speaker 3: his integrity, and what he represents to us the g

770
00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:17,960
Speaker 3: Watt veterans, and what he should represent represent to the

771
00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:18,720
Speaker 3: American people.

772
00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:21,080
Speaker 1: Can we say one more thing actually before we go,

773
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 1: This is hyper important all right. A fair number of

774
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:27,719
Speaker 1: people have come after Joe today for saying that once

775
00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:30,439
Speaker 1: you're in position and the bullets start flying.

776
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:32,279
Speaker 2: You don't get to quit anymore. All right.

777
00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:36,360
Speaker 1: I think that's horseship in this in this particular equation.

778
00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:41,400
Speaker 1: It's not like we are enlisted guys in Ranger Battalion

779
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:44,440
Speaker 1: getting ready to jump into Tehran and that's the decision

780
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:46,719
Speaker 1: that the President's made and we're going to go execute it.

781
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:51,040
Speaker 1: This is an appointee, all right, in a position of

782
00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:54,960
Speaker 1: extreme leadership, all right, the same way the officers actually

783
00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:56,759
Speaker 1: can resign their commission, all right, same thing.

784
00:41:56,760 --> 00:41:58,480
Speaker 2: They don't regrue to something, they can resign it right there.

785
00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:00,160
Speaker 2: It's over and done.

786
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:03,480
Speaker 1: We're technically not even in a war, I'm told continually,

787
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:05,840
Speaker 1: all right. So to me, this is not the same

788
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:08,360
Speaker 1: things as quitting at the line of departure.

789
00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:10,640
Speaker 2: All right. This is a principal stand.

790
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:13,440
Speaker 1: It's the most honorable thing that he could do, and

791
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:15,919
Speaker 1: he actually has a duty to himself and the rest

792
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:18,080
Speaker 1: of us if he believes that this is a mistake

793
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:21,720
Speaker 1: to fall on his sword as he has done and resign.

794
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:24,280
Speaker 2: All right. So that's that's where I stand on that issue.

795
00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:29,600
Speaker 3: Awesome, Clay, Thank you brother for everything and I appreciate

796
00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:30,640
Speaker 3: your sentiments tonight.

797
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:32,839
Speaker 2: Thank you for having me, brother, Doctor you soon