WEBVTT - Musk Launches xAI and Lina Khan Testifies 0:00:01.440 --> 0:00:05.120 From markhard where Innovation of Money and Power Collie in 0:00:05.240 --> 0:00:06.720 Silicon Valley, NBN. 0:00:07.080 --> 0:00:11.120 This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hyde and Ed Ludlove. 0:00:24.520 --> 0:00:26.640 I'm Karene Heidel Bloomberg's world head quarters in New York 0:00:26.680 --> 0:00:29.480 and Ludlow's assignment in Sun Valley. This is Bloomberg Technology 0:00:29.720 --> 0:00:32.240 coming up. Elon Musk launches his competitor to open AI. 0:00:32.640 --> 0:00:35.120 We'll bring you all the details of his sick company 0:00:35.720 --> 0:00:38.880 x AI, and we'll talk big tech regulation. That's his 0:00:39.000 --> 0:00:41.559 FTC Chairlea and it Khan appears before a House Judiciary 0:00:41.560 --> 0:00:46.680 Committee hearing on the oversight of the competition regulator. More ahead. Plus, 0:00:46.680 --> 0:00:50.120 the former CEO of crypto Leender Celsius is arrested, charged 0:00:50.159 --> 0:00:53.240 with fraud and sued by three regulatory agencies over the 0:00:53.240 --> 0:00:57.080 company's collapse. We'll bring you their details, but first let's 0:00:57.120 --> 0:00:58.760 get ahead of these markets once again. We're on the 0:00:58.800 --> 0:00:59.840 high note, Abigail do little. 0:01:00.640 --> 0:01:02.880 Yeah, we have a solid rally here at Caroline and 0:01:02.920 --> 0:01:04.679 for some of the indexes, three to four days in 0:01:04.720 --> 0:01:05.480 a row, big Tech. 0:01:05.520 --> 0:01:07.800 It's best day since the end of June. So the 0:01:07.840 --> 0:01:08.720 tech buyers are out. 0:01:08.720 --> 0:01:11.200 This, of course is the Bloomberg Dollar Index and yields 0:01:11.240 --> 0:01:12.520 are lower. We'll take a look at. 0:01:12.360 --> 0:01:13.080 That in a moment. 0:01:13.120 --> 0:01:16.440 But the New York Fang Index pure Megacaptech up one 0:01:16.480 --> 0:01:18.880 point eight percent, one of the big helps alphabet of 0:01:18.959 --> 0:01:21.280 four point nine percent. I was just searching the tape 0:01:21.360 --> 0:01:23.119 right now to see if anything new has come out. 0:01:23.280 --> 0:01:25.760 I'm not sure that anything new has come out. But 0:01:25.800 --> 0:01:29.639 what as on the year into today? We had Google 0:01:29.800 --> 0:01:32.720 up about thirty eight percent on the year, not so shabby, 0:01:32.760 --> 0:01:35.400 but when you compare that to Meta's one hundred and 0:01:35.400 --> 0:01:38.560 sixty percent move on the year, perhaps some investors looking 0:01:38.640 --> 0:01:42.160 up for looking for a potential catchup trade. Amazon also 0:01:42.280 --> 0:01:44.959 up two point two percent, of course, record prime day 0:01:45.200 --> 0:01:48.520 sales numbers. As for one of the big drivers, again, 0:01:48.880 --> 0:01:51.720 the Bloomberg Dollar Index down for a fourth or fifth 0:01:51.800 --> 0:01:53.320 day in a row, the longest losing. 0:01:53.120 --> 0:01:54.640 Streak of the year. But take a look at the 0:01:54.640 --> 0:01:55.480 two year yield. 0:01:55.560 --> 0:01:58.720 It is over the last week down thirty four basis points. 0:01:58.960 --> 0:02:02.520 Again on that cooler CPI and then the PPI print today, 0:02:03.000 --> 0:02:04.800 inflation concerns are. 0:02:04.720 --> 0:02:07.120 Fading, so that means that valuation. 0:02:06.720 --> 0:02:09.880 Concerns on big tech stocks with yields down also fading 0:02:09.919 --> 0:02:12.520 and maybe the idea that the FED is going to 0:02:12.560 --> 0:02:16.440 stop its hiking cycle sooner rather than earlier anticipated. One 0:02:16.440 --> 0:02:18.320 thing I will point out, though, Caroline, there is still 0:02:18.360 --> 0:02:20.840 the possibility that big tech could get volatile. If you 0:02:20.840 --> 0:02:22.720 take a look at the vix relative to the Vixen, 0:02:23.000 --> 0:02:23.400 there is. 0:02:23.360 --> 0:02:24.359 A six point spread. 0:02:24.400 --> 0:02:27.639 So investors still worried about tech at some point over 0:02:27.680 --> 0:02:29.440 the next three months, but just not right now. 0:02:29.440 --> 0:02:31.040 And then finally, Meta. 0:02:30.840 --> 0:02:33.800 Over the last four days surging today of course the 0:02:33.800 --> 0:02:36.880 announcement or the idea, the ft report that they may 0:02:36.880 --> 0:02:41.720 be planning to commercialize their AI product to compete, of 0:02:41.760 --> 0:02:46.040 course with both Apple or excuse me, Microsoft and Alphabet 0:02:46.200 --> 0:02:47.440 and that on top. 0:02:47.240 --> 0:02:48.799 Of threads in the year of efficiency. 0:02:48.840 --> 0:02:51.080 Well again, Caroline, Meta on the year up about one 0:02:51.160 --> 0:02:52.280 hundred and sixty percent. 0:02:52.560 --> 0:02:56.200 Phenomenal outperformance a migail, thank you so much. Well, let's 0:02:56.200 --> 0:02:58.280 talk about who else is looking into the world as 0:02:58.320 --> 0:03:01.520 AI at the moment. Edel Musk taking to Twitter spaces 0:03:01.560 --> 0:03:05.360 to discuss the launch of his CHATCHBD rival Xai hamm'ing 0:03:05.400 --> 0:03:07.840 last night. He says, a company's mission is to understand 0:03:07.880 --> 0:03:09.280 the true nature of the universe. 0:03:10.400 --> 0:03:15.960 Prominent safety standpoint I think a maximumly curious AI one 0:03:16.040 --> 0:03:18.919 is that that is trying to sort of understand the universe. 0:03:20.760 --> 0:03:28.160 Is I think going to be pro humanity from the 0:03:28.160 --> 0:03:33.840 standpoint that humanity is just much more interesting than my humanity. 0:03:35.280 --> 0:03:37.839 Joining us for more. Ed Ludlow out there in sun 0:03:37.920 --> 0:03:40.120 Valley where I'm pretty sure this is a hot topic. 0:03:42.000 --> 0:03:44.640 It's a hot topic, and XAI was a hot topic 0:03:44.760 --> 0:03:47.440 in the last twenty four hours understand the true nature 0:03:47.440 --> 0:03:49.920 of the universe. And I've spoken to so many sources 0:03:50.360 --> 0:03:53.800 in the AI industry here on the phone. They don't 0:03:53.840 --> 0:03:56.080 really know what it is that they're building, right. Is 0:03:56.120 --> 0:03:59.120 this a company that's building a foundation model or large 0:03:59.160 --> 0:04:03.320 language model like Inflection AI did separate to Open AI 0:04:03.600 --> 0:04:06.840 in GPT three point five, or are they doing something 0:04:06.960 --> 0:04:09.160 kind of more niche or specific in the field of 0:04:09.200 --> 0:04:11.560 machine learning. What we know is they're hiring in the 0:04:11.560 --> 0:04:15.880 Bay Area and they've assembled this all male roster of 0:04:16.279 --> 0:04:21.520 tenured Google DeepMind researchers and also some pretty key names 0:04:21.520 --> 0:04:23.120 from academia in Canada. 0:04:24.200 --> 0:04:26.760 Yeah, I mean, I think it is being a charge notable, 0:04:27.360 --> 0:04:29.480 as you say, at the moment, not a particularly diverse 0:04:29.480 --> 0:04:32.480 set of people, but certainly with a wealth of experience 0:04:32.520 --> 0:04:37.120 for across private markets and indeed from academia. As you say, ultimately, 0:04:38.279 --> 0:04:41.920 he said for months that he wants to perhaps bring 0:04:41.960 --> 0:04:45.080 some sort of competition to open ai. He's been frustrated 0:04:45.160 --> 0:04:48.080 by the team with Microsoft. He's worried about it's for 0:04:48.320 --> 0:04:50.440 profit nature after he stood down for the board in 0:04:50.480 --> 0:04:53.800 twenty eighteen. But what ultimately does he want out of this? 0:04:53.880 --> 0:04:55.640 I remember what was it back in March he was saying, 0:04:55.680 --> 0:04:57.599 hold on, we need to put a pause for six months, 0:04:57.680 --> 0:04:59.600 and then he's actually busily building himself. 0:05:01.760 --> 0:05:04.920 So spoke about this exact issue of read Hoffmann yesterday. 0:05:05.800 --> 0:05:10.159 You know, he acknowledged that open AI's origins are all 0:05:11.160 --> 0:05:14.200 directly tied to Elon Musk. He was an early investor, 0:05:14.400 --> 0:05:16.680 he was in on that initiative. But the way that 0:05:16.720 --> 0:05:20.159 read Hoffman put it, Carrie said, I'm askance at the 0:05:20.240 --> 0:05:23.240 idea that this is somebody who signed that pause petition 0:05:24.000 --> 0:05:26.200 and yet in the interim carried on with his own 0:05:26.200 --> 0:05:29.480 efforts in the field of AI. It doesn't really add up. 0:05:29.640 --> 0:05:33.760 We know his concerns are sort of existential. Still working 0:05:33.760 --> 0:05:34.160 on it. 0:05:34.640 --> 0:05:36.800 He is, and you're still working on staying with us 0:05:36.839 --> 0:05:38.880 for a moment ed hold type because we're going to 0:05:38.960 --> 0:05:41.719 join the conversation now with Gerbert Kawasaki, President and CEO 0:05:42.160 --> 0:05:45.360 Ross Gerber, who, of course, you were an investor in Twitter, 0:05:45.520 --> 0:05:49.239 You became an investor in the what when Twitter went private? 0:05:49.279 --> 0:05:51.559 You stuck with it. It of course was folded into 0:05:51.600 --> 0:05:54.120 the now parent company x and now we have the 0:05:54.160 --> 0:05:58.160 birth of Xai. Look, given your expertise within Tesla as 0:05:58.160 --> 0:06:01.279 well and a firm commitment to that company. Is he 0:06:01.360 --> 0:06:04.400 too busy? Is Elon Musk now a sixth company he's leading? 0:06:05.640 --> 0:06:06.479 Well, yes and no. 0:06:06.960 --> 0:06:10.479 I think that of course Elon's been too busy for 0:06:10.560 --> 0:06:14.360 a decade now and somehow has survived. And I think 0:06:14.680 --> 0:06:17.160 a lot of these projects he spearheads and puts a 0:06:17.200 --> 0:06:19.800 lot of like sort of initial inertia into and then 0:06:20.120 --> 0:06:23.240 he turns him over to really competent leadership and he 0:06:23.320 --> 0:06:26.800 builds great teams of engineers that we know he's good at. 0:06:26.839 --> 0:06:29.159 And that's what he's doing with Xai. And I don't 0:06:29.160 --> 0:06:31.800 think he's really quite sure yet what it will be. 0:06:31.920 --> 0:06:34.599 And that's kind of the genius of Musk, is you know, 0:06:34.680 --> 0:06:37.479 he kind of builds these teams with a general goal. 0:06:37.960 --> 0:06:41.120 But the what will come out of this, I'm sure 0:06:41.240 --> 0:06:44.960 he has no idea yet, but it'll be probably pretty interesting. 0:06:46.960 --> 0:06:51.600 Russ was the idea of XAI in the incorporation documents 0:06:51.600 --> 0:06:55.159 for ex scoop at the time you invested, No, I 0:06:55.200 --> 0:06:55.680 mean that. 0:06:55.920 --> 0:06:59.880 That so they kind of said, you know, there's a 0:07:00.080 --> 0:07:02.920 lot we don't know he will do within this structure, 0:07:03.360 --> 0:07:06.120 you know, but it's really about acquiring Twitter. 0:07:06.320 --> 0:07:09.600 But I think if you really understand Elon, he always. 0:07:09.279 --> 0:07:12.320 Sees things way further than that I do, as far 0:07:12.360 --> 0:07:16.200 as like the way he sees the future. And Twitter 0:07:16.320 --> 0:07:18.640 is just a wonderful source of data to build an 0:07:18.640 --> 0:07:21.680 AI company around, don't you think so? I think, you know, 0:07:21.720 --> 0:07:24.600 there is a grand vision of He's got the data, 0:07:24.640 --> 0:07:27.160 and that's why he's protecting it so much with the 0:07:27.600 --> 0:07:30.200 limiting of the scraping of the data from Twitter, as 0:07:30.240 --> 0:07:32.800 he's trying to protect his data because he knows it's 0:07:32.800 --> 0:07:33.560 super valuable. 0:07:33.560 --> 0:07:36.360 Twitter data is way more valuable than metadata, you know. 0:07:36.440 --> 0:07:39.880 Metadata, you know, is much more personal about people, and 0:07:39.960 --> 0:07:41.880 Twitter data is really all about the world. 0:07:42.000 --> 0:07:45.320 So if you're worried about humanity and sort of bigger issues. 0:07:45.240 --> 0:07:48.840 I think Elon, you know, is building something that could 0:07:48.880 --> 0:07:50.720 be incredible as always. 0:07:50.800 --> 0:07:56.240 Really, When the x Ai Twitter handle tweeted you know, 0:07:56.360 --> 0:08:00.120 questions to its following, I replied saying, how many the 0:08:00.280 --> 0:08:03.240 h one hundreds do you have in reference to Nvidia's 0:08:03.240 --> 0:08:08.720 most powerful GPU related to building of lms and the 0:08:08.760 --> 0:08:11.480 inference side. Lots of people replied and said, what are 0:08:11.480 --> 0:08:15.960 you talking about? Elon's got Dojo, So what's your interpretation 0:08:16.120 --> 0:08:18.880 of the read through between Xai and the work that 0:08:19.280 --> 0:08:23.040 Tesla's done historically in machine learning neural networks? 0:08:24.320 --> 0:08:24.520 Right? 0:08:24.720 --> 0:08:27.800 So you know, I'm not really an engineer. I'm not 0:08:27.880 --> 0:08:31.280 an engineer. In fact, I feared these passes in school. 0:08:31.680 --> 0:08:34.360 So my understanding of it is, if you're going to 0:08:34.400 --> 0:08:37.840 build AI quickly, you need in video chips because they're 0:08:37.920 --> 0:08:42.360 scaling chips that are crucial to this. And Tesla has 0:08:42.400 --> 0:08:46.440 their own AI chips and they're building autonomy around them 0:08:46.480 --> 0:08:48.959 and they design their own ships, and then they have Dojo, 0:08:49.040 --> 0:08:52.080 which is really like a training mechanism, which would really 0:08:52.440 --> 0:08:56.559 speed up the process of learning through this AI mechanism. 0:08:56.559 --> 0:08:59.160 But I don't see any way around them buying Mattoman 0:08:59.240 --> 0:09:02.040 video chips is really the hugest winner in the AI 0:09:02.480 --> 0:09:06.600 revolution being, you know, the brains behind AI and the. 0:09:06.520 --> 0:09:10.559 Hardware brains, So I think that it doesn't really matter. 0:09:10.840 --> 0:09:12.000 You know. The Nvidia and. 0:09:12.280 --> 0:09:14.600 The Tesla chips are kind of similar, I think, in 0:09:14.600 --> 0:09:16.120 a lot of ways, and they. 0:09:15.800 --> 0:09:16.840 Serve the same purposes. 0:09:16.880 --> 0:09:19.840 But Tesla designs its own ships and designed its own training, 0:09:19.840 --> 0:09:23.160 and that is something that people should pay very close 0:09:23.200 --> 0:09:27.840 attention to, because this is really Elon's expertise. Actually, he's 0:09:27.880 --> 0:09:31.000 not going into something he you know, like out of 0:09:31.000 --> 0:09:35.080 his range, like Twitter, you know. So I'm very bullish 0:09:35.160 --> 0:09:37.319 on this, you know, And of course I think he's 0:09:37.320 --> 0:09:37.920 the right person. 0:09:38.160 --> 0:09:40.760 There is a different leader for Twitter now, Ladie Acarino 0:09:40.800 --> 0:09:46.160 as a CEO. But I'm interested more broadly on the 0:09:46.200 --> 0:09:49.559 return on investment that we're likely to be getting from this, 0:09:50.000 --> 0:09:52.600 and ultimately, this is a lot of the time. When 0:09:52.600 --> 0:09:54.720 he bought Twitter, it was about more than just the 0:09:55.040 --> 0:09:57.880 of course, the profitability and the rewards there. It was 0:09:57.920 --> 0:10:01.840 about building something he thought were ultimately be better for humanity. 0:10:01.960 --> 0:10:04.280 So is SpaceX to a large extent now we see 0:10:04.280 --> 0:10:08.320 it with XAI. How much you pay attention to some 0:10:08.360 --> 0:10:12.000 of the concerns he ultimately has around AI's risks, of course, 0:10:12.040 --> 0:10:14.600 he's got the Center for AI Safety on board as 0:10:14.640 --> 0:10:16.600 an overseer of this new venture. 0:10:17.840 --> 0:10:20.199 I think his concerns are very legitimate, and I'm really 0:10:20.240 --> 0:10:22.720 happy he's bringing them up very early in the process 0:10:22.720 --> 0:10:25.240 of this technology, because if somebody would have done this 0:10:25.480 --> 0:10:28.240 during the development of social media, it might have prevented 0:10:28.559 --> 0:10:32.600 the mass amount of harm that Facebook and Instagram and 0:10:32.640 --> 0:10:36.080 other social media's that's caused our youth, for example. And 0:10:36.160 --> 0:10:38.520 so the fact that he's stepping on early and saying 0:10:38.600 --> 0:10:40.880 we do need to look at the guardrails around this 0:10:41.080 --> 0:10:47.880 because the opportunity for abuse, misinformation, and then ultimately bad 0:10:48.480 --> 0:10:52.120 outcomes from AI are a possibility. And so I think 0:10:52.280 --> 0:10:56.920 his focus on this early on is actually a great thing. 0:10:57.000 --> 0:10:59.520 And I think he's in a position where he can 0:10:59.520 --> 0:11:03.040 build a company with very long term focus because it's 0:11:03.080 --> 0:11:06.640 a privately held company with investors like myself who really 0:11:06.800 --> 0:11:08.439 don't care about the short term at all. 0:11:08.559 --> 0:11:12.520 So yeah, he's really in the right position to execute US. 0:11:12.600 --> 0:11:16.120 I remember when you joined US, I believe to really 0:11:16.360 --> 0:11:22.080 vent some frustration about leadership at Tesla distraction concern. You 0:11:22.120 --> 0:11:25.680 are so concerned about it, you were wanting to help 0:11:25.760 --> 0:11:28.080 take a board seat to help drive this company forward. 0:11:28.480 --> 0:11:30.640 What changes now with the birth of you at another company? 0:11:30.679 --> 0:11:32.959 You say, he's been too busy for about a decade, 0:11:33.000 --> 0:11:35.320 But what gets sacrificed here as an investor in his 0:11:35.400 --> 0:11:36.080 other companies. 0:11:37.040 --> 0:11:38.120 Well, two things. 0:11:38.120 --> 0:11:41.199 One, he did find a CEO for Twitter, and all 0:11:41.200 --> 0:11:44.040 the things I was pushing for have happened now, from 0:11:44.160 --> 0:11:46.920 advertising to secession planning and changes of the board. 0:11:47.280 --> 0:11:48.600 And we've seen the stock recover. 0:11:48.679 --> 0:11:52.120 So it's been a hugely successful campaign economically for me 0:11:52.160 --> 0:11:54.520 and my clients and for Tesla's shareholders. 0:11:54.520 --> 0:11:55.880 So I've been really happy about that. 0:11:56.120 --> 0:12:00.560 I don't look at XAI as like such a distraction Twitter, 0:12:00.720 --> 0:12:04.080 because with Twitter he was really like getting killed every day. 0:12:04.120 --> 0:12:05.280 He still gets killed. 0:12:05.040 --> 0:12:09.160 Every day with half his decisions and just his whole 0:12:09.200 --> 0:12:12.040 thing on Twitter has been I think somewhat detrimental, if 0:12:12.080 --> 0:12:15.440 not very detrimental to his image. But like when you 0:12:15.440 --> 0:12:17.800 look at doing an AI company, that's like right up 0:12:17.840 --> 0:12:21.960 as Alley, and he's most competent and capable of leading 0:12:21.960 --> 0:12:25.240 a team in this area without really distracting him. And 0:12:25.320 --> 0:12:30.120 there's lots of ancillary benefits that Tesla and his shareholders 0:12:30.160 --> 0:12:33.360 will get from this development versus Twitter, where I think 0:12:33.480 --> 0:12:37.720 the risk reward was much worse for the Tesla shareholders 0:12:37.720 --> 0:12:38.120 for sure. 0:12:40.520 --> 0:12:43.800 Ross also in the news cycle Activision Microsoft. You are 0:12:44.240 --> 0:12:48.760 an Activision shareholder the merger of say that the chance 0:12:48.800 --> 0:12:51.520 of this deal going ahead eighty to eighty five percent. 0:12:52.000 --> 0:12:55.320 The FTC filed it's appeal last night. What do you 0:12:55.360 --> 0:12:57.560 see is the chances of this deal going through? 0:12:58.520 --> 0:12:59.640 We'll just with pull this. 0:13:00.320 --> 0:13:03.880 We sold most of our Activision in the last two 0:13:03.960 --> 0:13:08.760 days after the FTC decision at over around ninety dollars 0:13:08.760 --> 0:13:12.120 a share er above. We felt the risk reward of 0:13:12.240 --> 0:13:14.720 just more time. It's a cash heel at ninety five, 0:13:14.840 --> 0:13:18.560 so we've moved on. So just out of disclosure. So 0:13:18.760 --> 0:13:21.079 I do think the FTC is going to lose again. 0:13:21.880 --> 0:13:25.560 Linda Kon and FTC have way overstepped their bounds, taking 0:13:25.679 --> 0:13:30.679 very weak cases to court to hurt competition in in 0:13:30.679 --> 0:13:31.280 in gaming. 0:13:31.320 --> 0:13:34.240 They hurt competition, They weren't helping at all, and. 0:13:34.200 --> 0:13:37.760 So I think, you know, the FDC needs to really 0:13:37.800 --> 0:13:41.280 reconsider what their purpose is because we're a capitalistic you know, 0:13:41.360 --> 0:13:44.480 society and businesses by other businesses, So they need to 0:13:44.480 --> 0:13:46.520 find better cases, and there are plenty of good cases 0:13:46.520 --> 0:13:47.280 they can jump in on. 0:13:47.559 --> 0:13:52.280 How about the live golf PGA situation. Where's the FTC there? 0:13:52.640 --> 0:13:56.000 They should be blocking that one hundred percent, so you know, 0:13:56.320 --> 0:13:58.520 they should need to focus on something a little bit 0:13:58.520 --> 0:13:59.160 more meaningful. 0:14:00.000 --> 0:14:01.880 We're going to let you get back to some well 0:14:01.920 --> 0:14:04.880 earned golf playing now, it seems for us because you're 0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:07.719 on vacation and you came on just for us in California. 0:14:07.800 --> 0:14:10.120 We thank you very much. In Degaba Kawasaki president and 0:14:10.120 --> 0:14:12.280 CEO Ros Gerbert and our very own ed LaAlO who 0:14:12.360 --> 0:14:13.959 is not on vocation, but he's out there in some 0:14:14.120 --> 0:14:16.280 valley working extremely hard for us, and we're going back 0:14:16.280 --> 0:14:25.920 to him in a minute. Thank you both. Huawei and 0:14:25.960 --> 0:14:28.320 it's disclosing for the first time it's annual income from 0:14:28.320 --> 0:14:31.040 its patent licensing deals, showing the company is making in 0:14:31.320 --> 0:14:33.760 well more than five hundred sixty million dollars last year 0:14:33.800 --> 0:14:35.920 from the part of the business. After of course, this 0:14:35.960 --> 0:14:38.880 business model of old was kind of upended by US 0:14:38.960 --> 0:14:42.200 sanctions of the Chinese tech player joining us now to 0:14:42.240 --> 0:14:45.280 see how this galvanizes growth of the future. Stephen guisles 0:14:45.280 --> 0:14:47.880 with us. He's the US Chief Intellectual Property Council at Huawei. 0:14:47.880 --> 0:14:51.880 As long as Anni Perdy, He's Huawei USA Cso, gentlemen, 0:14:51.960 --> 0:14:55.200 both great to have you, Stephen. Just a lot of patents, 0:14:55.280 --> 0:14:59.080 thousands that Huawei has. How do you ultimately look to 0:14:59.120 --> 0:15:01.920 monetize all of this? You've been launching this licensing website 0:15:01.960 --> 0:15:03.760 as well, just in the last few days, you're providing 0:15:03.800 --> 0:15:07.479 details of how you're going to have bilateral licensing programs. 0:15:07.680 --> 0:15:09.800 Would you sell to Apple and the like? Even within 0:15:09.840 --> 0:15:12.160 these sanctions? How these sorts of conversations go with big 0:15:12.200 --> 0:15:13.120 tech giants. 0:15:14.360 --> 0:15:19.120 Well, So, regardless of Huawei sales, our patent portfolio covers 0:15:19.840 --> 0:15:23.840 many of the telecommunications products globally. So, for instance, in 0:15:24.120 --> 0:15:27.680 five G alone, we own approximately twenty percent of all 0:15:27.680 --> 0:15:32.520 standard essential patents globally for five G. So where our 0:15:32.720 --> 0:15:37.680 competitors or other marketing entrants are using five G technology, 0:15:38.000 --> 0:15:40.920 they would need to pay for a license from Huawei. 0:15:41.440 --> 0:15:44.920 We're not, though, primarily concerned with monetizing making revenue. 0:15:44.920 --> 0:15:45.680 In fact, one. 0:15:45.640 --> 0:15:50.000 Of the drivers of releasing the number five hundred and 0:15:50.040 --> 0:15:53.880 sixty million dollars in revenue last year from patent licensing 0:15:54.240 --> 0:15:56.080 was to show that, in the grand scheme of things 0:15:56.120 --> 0:16:00.840 within Huawei, that patent licensing is not our business emphasis. Certainly, 0:16:00.920 --> 0:16:03.600 my team, we're proud of the work that we've done 0:16:03.840 --> 0:16:07.960 globally in licensing, and for two years straight we've been 0:16:08.280 --> 0:16:12.840 positive in patent licensing. But Huawei certainly is a product 0:16:12.840 --> 0:16:17.720 and services company. So this is transparency to allow people 0:16:17.720 --> 0:16:21.960 to see within context that it still is the productization 0:16:22.640 --> 0:16:25.680 that Huawei is driving for Andy. 0:16:25.720 --> 0:16:30.760 Therefore, hol must define what Huawei is now because in 0:16:30.800 --> 0:16:33.920 many ways you have pivoted. You were survival mode now 0:16:33.920 --> 0:16:36.680 it's more focused on B to B. How do you 0:16:36.720 --> 0:16:38.840 summarize really what Huawei stands for now. 0:16:39.800 --> 0:16:42.720 Well, we are now at a new normal phase of 0:16:42.920 --> 0:16:47.280 the evolution of this company. The context is there's technologies converging, 0:16:47.400 --> 0:16:51.720 five G software, cloud centered technologies, artificial intelligence, all these 0:16:51.720 --> 0:16:55.680 things are converging. So our strategy with an incredible investment 0:16:56.240 --> 0:16:57.840 in R and D. We now have one hundred and 0:16:57.880 --> 0:16:59.920 fourteen thousand people in R and D out of our 0:17:00.000 --> 0:17:01.960 two hundred and eight thousand dollars two hundred and eight 0:17:02.000 --> 0:17:05.960 thousand employee mixture. So we've been adjusting our portfolios to 0:17:06.000 --> 0:17:09.439 bring value to the network carriers, the enterprises, to the consumers, 0:17:09.800 --> 0:17:13.760 embracing the key trends of digitalization, intelligence, and carbon neutrality, 0:17:14.000 --> 0:17:16.520 helping to reduce the carbon footprint. So we are a 0:17:16.560 --> 0:17:21.119 company about connecting the world, about bringing technology to every home, 0:17:21.200 --> 0:17:25.040 every company, every organization, and frankly, it's really exciting to 0:17:25.080 --> 0:17:26.800 be a member of this an employee. 0:17:26.400 --> 0:17:26.959 Of this company. 0:17:27.080 --> 0:17:29.760 Money is hard, and you know this while having worked 0:17:29.760 --> 0:17:33.600 with the White House prior to Huawei to do this, 0:17:33.680 --> 0:17:35.840 while navigating such sanctions. Do you ever see a world 0:17:35.880 --> 0:17:37.840 in which that will be alleviated in this currency of 0:17:37.880 --> 0:17:38.720 political environment. 0:17:39.960 --> 0:17:42.639 Well, there's an awful lot of countries in the world 0:17:42.760 --> 0:17:45.920 that are eager to do business with us, and thousands 0:17:45.920 --> 0:17:48.520 of companies to partner with us. And in fact, when 0:17:48.560 --> 0:17:52.359 you look at the world, we have formed digitalization partnerships 0:17:52.359 --> 0:17:55.199 and Global Fortune five hundred companies with two hundred and 0:17:55.200 --> 0:17:58.040 sixty seven of the Global Fortune five hundred and seven 0:17:58.160 --> 0:18:00.520 hundred cities. So we're not so can learn about what 0:18:00.560 --> 0:18:03.679 we can't do. We're excited about what we can do 0:18:03.720 --> 0:18:06.200 and how we're bringing the technology to the world, including 0:18:06.240 --> 0:18:09.399 five point five G and including our pangu ai and 0:18:10.000 --> 0:18:12.399 AI for industry approach, which is I think going to 0:18:12.480 --> 0:18:14.000 generate quite a bit of revenue. 0:18:14.040 --> 0:18:15.760 Okay, I like that you went to the AI. How 0:18:15.800 --> 0:18:17.880 much focus is there on AII P at the moment. 0:18:17.920 --> 0:18:24.840 Stephen, Well, I'll defer to Andy on the on the AI. 0:18:26.080 --> 0:18:28.760 Yeah, So our company looks at the larger world where 0:18:29.080 --> 0:18:32.280 the future of computing is everywhere. There's going to be 0:18:32.400 --> 0:18:35.120 an intelligent world. There's going to be Internet of everything, 0:18:35.480 --> 0:18:38.000 and five G and increasingly five point G are going 0:18:38.040 --> 0:18:41.199 to help bring that about. We think artificial intelligence is 0:18:41.240 --> 0:18:44.760 going to rewrite everything, and so our lead for Huawei Cloud, 0:18:44.800 --> 0:18:48.119 for example, Zang Ping Ghan has said the Pegu model 0:18:48.160 --> 0:18:51.800 of AI is not about writing poetry. It's not generative 0:18:51.840 --> 0:18:56.600 AI like the most publicity and these models. The Pangu 0:18:56.640 --> 0:19:01.080 model empowers every industry with in effect an intelligent system 0:19:01.080 --> 0:19:04.840 to make them more productive, more efficient in a real 0:19:05.000 --> 0:19:07.600 learning environment. Frankly, when we look at the future, we 0:19:07.720 --> 0:19:10.000 believe Ken who our vice chairman, has said that when 0:19:10.040 --> 0:19:13.359 you look at AI, generally ninety eight percent of AI 0:19:13.680 --> 0:19:16.560 will be industry in some agriculture and only two percent 0:19:16.600 --> 0:19:19.040 will be consumer. So hopefully the United States is going 0:19:19.080 --> 0:19:21.600 to really get all in about the benefits of digitalization 0:19:21.680 --> 0:19:22.359 and transformation. 0:19:22.880 --> 0:19:26.080 Certainly, so it feels that way when in terms of 0:19:26.080 --> 0:19:28.000 the level of conversation we have here on the show 0:19:28.000 --> 0:19:29.879 about AI in the US. We want to thank you 0:19:29.880 --> 0:19:32.359 both Stephen Guyser of course US Chief Intellectual Property Council 0:19:32.400 --> 0:19:36.040 at Huawei and Annie Perdi Huawei USA CSO. And while 0:19:36.040 --> 0:19:39.320 coming up, No, we're talking about FTC Charley in a 0:19:39.400 --> 0:19:41.760 Khan just with Roscerber a moment ago. Well, in fact, 0:19:41.800 --> 0:19:44.760 she's up in the House of the moment testifying for them. 0:19:45.040 --> 0:19:53.480 We'll have all of the details. Next, this is Blomberg. 0:20:00.480 --> 0:20:04.240 Senator Elizabeth Warren says she applauds the FTC for trying 0:20:04.280 --> 0:20:06.439 to take on Microsoft and its merger with Activision Blizzard. 0:20:06.800 --> 0:20:08.520 Is what she had to say on Bloemberg's balance of 0:20:08.520 --> 0:20:09.200 power last night. 0:20:10.400 --> 0:20:14.080 The merger itself is not legal, but we have an 0:20:14.080 --> 0:20:18.360 opinion from the judge. I want to commend the FTC 0:20:18.920 --> 0:20:24.200 for taking on hard cases, taking on big companies, taking 0:20:24.240 --> 0:20:27.960 on cases that in the past off and just slid through, 0:20:28.119 --> 0:20:32.200 but that are clear violations of the law. I applaud 0:20:32.240 --> 0:20:35.960 what the FTC has done and I say stay after it. 0:20:36.880 --> 0:20:40.280 Meanwhile, underway, the FTC Charley and Khanna is currently testifying 0:20:40.320 --> 0:20:44.320 before the House Committee on the Judiciary on Oversight. In fact, well, 0:20:44.400 --> 0:20:47.400 let's get to Blueos Katie Lyones, who was busy conducting 0:20:47.400 --> 0:20:50.800 that interview with Senator Warren, and well, she's a Democrat, 0:20:50.880 --> 0:20:53.760 and she speaks highly of a Democrat led FTC at 0:20:53.760 --> 0:20:56.720 the moment, but it's kind of partizan and certainly that 0:20:57.240 --> 0:20:59.960 committee that Lena Khan's in front of at the moment 0:21:00.359 --> 0:21:01.159 is an embdem of that. 0:21:02.600 --> 0:21:05.240 Yeah, exactly right, Caroline. I just returned from Capitol Hill. 0:21:05.280 --> 0:21:07.480 I was standing outside that hearing room, and Democrats I 0:21:07.520 --> 0:21:10.640 spoke with, like Senator Elizabeth Warren, did have kind words 0:21:11.080 --> 0:21:13.879 for the FTC Chair Republicans, though not so much in 0:21:13.960 --> 0:21:16.720