1 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:09,600 Speaker 1: What's desperately horny? My Saddam Hussein's best friend. I'm Robert 2 00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:14,120 Speaker 1: Evans hosted Behind the Bastards, the only podcast whose host 3 00:00:14,280 --> 00:00:17,960 Speaker 1: owns two kittens named Saddam Hussein and Saddam Hussein's best friend. 4 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:22,560 Speaker 1: And due to a severe veterinarian shortage in northern Oregon, 5 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:26,000 Speaker 1: uh still can't get them spade and neutered for another 6 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 1: nine days. And Saddam Hussein's best friend is in heat 7 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:31,360 Speaker 1: and desperately trying to funk her brother. This has been 8 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:36,279 Speaker 1: an update for all of you. Maybe disclose that information now. 9 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:39,360 Speaker 1: She has been disclosing that she wants to funck to 10 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:42,960 Speaker 1: literally every living creature that gets near her. She had 11 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:45,360 Speaker 1: a microphone, she'd be saying the same time. She will 12 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:50,479 Speaker 1: not stop presenting it is. It has been a problem. 13 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:52,440 Speaker 1: We are keeping them away because I do not want 14 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:56,040 Speaker 1: incest kittens. Um although they may have been in ses, 15 00:00:56,320 --> 00:00:59,840 Speaker 1: there's no way to know um in in sittence. Yeah, 16 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:04,600 Speaker 1: like ks Robert, who has a lot of other voice 17 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 1: on this podcast that people are here. Oh well, the 18 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:09,319 Speaker 1: only person I would ever have on to talk about 19 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:13,600 Speaker 1: kitten incest my friend Tom Rieman. Hey, Hi, what's up? No? 20 00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:16,479 Speaker 1: I'm glad you got me on to talk about these cats. 21 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:19,000 Speaker 1: This is gonna be a three hour episode about my 22 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:23,039 Speaker 1: my cat's sex life. Um. Tom, you are the co 23 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:27,000 Speaker 1: founder of game Fully Unemployed, one of my favorite podcast 24 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:30,160 Speaker 1: networks host one of my most listened to shows, Fox 25 00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:32,640 Speaker 1: Molder is a Maniac, Which is a beautiful breakdown of 26 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:39,520 Speaker 1: Fox Molder and what I would god damn ludaticious. Um yeah, Tom, 27 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 1: it's it's it's really fascinating when you watch the show 28 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:46,000 Speaker 1: with that context, it changes the show. It truly does. 29 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:48,440 Speaker 1: You guys do a lot of great stuff, great movie 30 00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 1: reviews and m role playing games. People can find you 31 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:57,320 Speaker 1: Gamefully Unemployed on Patreon. Tom. You also are what an 32 00:01:57,440 --> 00:02:01,080 Speaker 1: editor at Collider I'd forget what title, Senior editor of 33 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 1: Features Collider, and you and I worked together for all 34 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:11,280 Speaker 1: of my twenties more or less at a little website 35 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:15,079 Speaker 1: called Cracked that pivoted to video and uh and went 36 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:16,840 Speaker 1: the way of the Dodo. We Got, We Got, We 37 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:19,919 Speaker 1: Got dragged to hell by Mark Zuckerberg. Yeah. I didn't 38 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:24,760 Speaker 1: come across a beautiful tweet earlier today that you'll appreciate, Tom. 39 00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:28,760 Speaker 1: I can't wait to hear it. Great radio great radio. Yes, 40 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:32,720 Speaker 1: look for something. A Neil dash horse broke its legs, 41 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:34,600 Speaker 1: so we had to take it out back and help 42 00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:44,120 Speaker 1: it pivot to video. Oh Tom, how are you doing today? 43 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:47,519 Speaker 1: I'm doing okay, I'm I'm doing pretty good. Thanks. Uh 44 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 1: you know, how about how about you? How about yourself? Well, Tom, 45 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:53,040 Speaker 1: I'm thinking about the fact that there is a vast, 46 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:58,119 Speaker 1: incredibly well financed right wing media operation that is seemingly 47 00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 1: dedicated to pushing a violence civil conflict that leads to 48 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:05,960 Speaker 1: a death toll that's truly astronomical in this nation. Do 49 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:08,360 Speaker 1: you think about that a lot? So good? Right? So 50 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:13,119 Speaker 1: you're doing good, doing great? Uh? Yeah, no, I've tried 51 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:15,800 Speaker 1: to think about it less. But uh and in the 52 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:18,760 Speaker 1: past few months just I just was trying to take 53 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:21,600 Speaker 1: a break, but I'm getting plugged back into it. You 54 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 1: sure are, It's uh yeah, god damn it. It's just 55 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:27,960 Speaker 1: it's just it doesn't seem like anything's gotten any better. 56 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:30,959 Speaker 1: It sure hasn't. It's fucking relentless. And there's this is 57 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:33,440 Speaker 1: the election. We're like, oh, thank god, and then nope 58 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 1: that that didn't go away. Yeah, no, it turns out 59 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:40,240 Speaker 1: that you can't you can't vote these kinds of problems away. 60 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:42,240 Speaker 1: And today we're going to talk about where some of 61 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:45,960 Speaker 1: these problems started. Specifically, we're going to talk about the 62 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:49,680 Speaker 1: men who made right wing media, and particularly like right 63 00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 1: wing talk media. So today you've got guys like um, 64 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 1: Stephen Crowder, Been Shapiro obviously, Tucker Carlson being the big 65 00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:02,400 Speaker 1: the big Mama Jammy, people like Rush Limball, like like 66 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:04,160 Speaker 1: all of all three of those people, all four of 67 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 1: those people you just name got picked dead last for 68 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 1: Kickball for very different reasons, and they made it the 69 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:20,160 Speaker 1: entire world's problem. So all of these folks, you know 70 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:22,719 Speaker 1: some of they all they all do slightly different variations 71 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:24,560 Speaker 1: of the same thing. And they're not all you know, 72 00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 1: Rush is the only one who's like really a talk 73 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:30,080 Speaker 1: radio host, but they all have you know, podcasts and YouTube. 74 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:32,360 Speaker 1: They all do the equip the modern equivalent of talk 75 00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:36,560 Speaker 1: radio and and of like, yeah, we're gonna talk about 76 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:40,400 Speaker 1: basically the people who invented the media space that these 77 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:42,720 Speaker 1: guys all live in. Now, these are the very first 78 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:47,719 Speaker 1: right wing media personalities, um in a big way. So 79 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:50,920 Speaker 1: these are these are the people who um prepared the 80 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:54,120 Speaker 1: soil for all of the different you know kind of 81 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:58,080 Speaker 1: quasi fascist grifters we have today, and they are They're 82 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:02,680 Speaker 1: not all bastard in the traditional sense. Um, they're not 83 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:05,080 Speaker 1: all people who, on their own, if you didn't consider 84 00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 1: where everything went, would have qualified as best. Is there 85 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 1: all I think unpleasant people? Um, but but I think 86 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:13,279 Speaker 1: what's interesting is how they how they start off and 87 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:15,760 Speaker 1: kind of where they end, Like the kind of people 88 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 1: who inhabit this space at the beginning and the kind 89 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:20,280 Speaker 1: of people who inhabit it now. So this is gonna 90 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:21,840 Speaker 1: be a fun episode time. You're gonna listen to a 91 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:24,480 Speaker 1: lot of clips that you're just really gonna dislike. Um, 92 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:34,680 Speaker 1: so excited. Yeah, I'm so mad soon, Yeah you really are. So. 93 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:37,200 Speaker 1: One of the things that inspired this was coming across 94 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:40,320 Speaker 1: the fact that Tucker Carlson very recently alleged that the 95 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:43,040 Speaker 1: purpose of vaccine requirements in the military was to quote 96 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:46,160 Speaker 1: identify the sincere Christians in the ranks, the freethinkers, the 97 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:49,600 Speaker 1: men with high distosterone levels, and anybody else who doesn't 98 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:53,240 Speaker 1: love Joe Biden and make them leave immediately. Um is 99 00:05:53,279 --> 00:05:58,200 Speaker 1: he talking? He's getting into high tis testosterone is low 100 00:05:58,279 --> 00:06:02,120 Speaker 1: if you're getting vacs, that's so boys, shit not choking 101 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:05,960 Speaker 1: on your own rotting lungs is soy. It's it's become 102 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:08,240 Speaker 1: I mean it was, it's always been the case, but 103 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:11,120 Speaker 1: like in the past year or two, it's really become 104 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:13,640 Speaker 1: obvious that they just let him go on and say whatever. 105 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:17,480 Speaker 1: He just says, you didn't think it's Yeah, And I'm 106 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:21,360 Speaker 1: starting with Tucker because he's he's just off the fucking 107 00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:24,839 Speaker 1: rails completely. And this is the end route of of 108 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:27,839 Speaker 1: the journey that we're going to trace the start of today. Um. 109 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 1: And the thing that Tucker has been saying that most 110 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:32,839 Speaker 1: concerns me is he started sharing Great Replacement style conspiracy 111 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:35,560 Speaker 1: theaters which are alleging that Democrats planned to quote change 112 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:38,279 Speaker 1: the population of this country in order to maintain power. 113 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:41,960 Speaker 1: This is functionally the same argument Brenton Tarrant, the christ 114 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 1: Church shooter, made in the manifesto he wrote before shooting 115 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 1: fifty Muslim worshippers to death. Um. His manifest was titled 116 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 1: The Great Replacements. The same argument that the yeah, I'm trying, 117 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 1: I'm trying. I'm trying to remember my behind the bastards 118 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:57,520 Speaker 1: extended universe that all comes from the Turner diaries, right, 119 00:06:57,880 --> 00:06:59,840 Speaker 1: I mean, doesn't come from the Turner Diaries was like 120 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:03,160 Speaker 1: big definitely was pushing that. But this goes back a 121 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:05,120 Speaker 1: while for for I mean that you could even draw 122 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:07,160 Speaker 1: a line to like the original Nazis and kind of 123 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:09,840 Speaker 1: some of the ship Hitler was saying about arian blood 124 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:13,120 Speaker 1: getting watered down from interbreeding and one for sure, yeah, yeah, 125 00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:15,680 Speaker 1: it's a big, big white nationalist talking point. And the 126 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:18,440 Speaker 1: fact that this good went from great replacement went from 127 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:24,080 Speaker 1: like fringe Nazi murderer manifesto in Night two thousand nineteen 128 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:26,640 Speaker 1: to Tucker Carlson talking to three million people on a 129 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:31,239 Speaker 1: major news network shows like how fast things go now 130 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:34,160 Speaker 1: and how how dangerous this all is. And I think 131 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 1: it's important to start the stakes because it doesn't begin 132 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:39,640 Speaker 1: that way. The guys who start this kind of right 133 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 1: wing media space. Um are the first guy we're gonna 134 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:46,760 Speaker 1: talk to, is in a lot always kind of pleasant. Um, 135 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:49,080 Speaker 1: at least compared to what came after. I don't think 136 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:50,600 Speaker 1: he saw that I would have gotten along with. But 137 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 1: it don't believe you, it's it's it's weird. We'll see 138 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:57,520 Speaker 1: how you think. Um. Yeah, And where we discussed this 139 00:07:57,560 --> 00:07:59,240 Speaker 1: is probably going to be these episodes with a nice 140 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:01,760 Speaker 1: companion to our two part on Rush Limbaugh with Mr 141 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:04,080 Speaker 1: Paul F. Tompkins. So you know, if you're if you're 142 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 1: looking for a good four episodes spree to go together, 143 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:08,840 Speaker 1: listen to these two and then listen to those. Well 144 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 1: you're sweet having a very long ship or on a 145 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:17,520 Speaker 1: road trip. So first guy we're talking about Tom is 146 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 1: Joe Pine p Y in the Joe Pine was born 147 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:25,440 Speaker 1: in Chester, Pennsylvania, on December twenty two, nineteen twenty four. 148 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:34,800 Speaker 1: His dad problem two Pennsylvania, Pennsylvania. Yeah, get it out 149 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:38,520 Speaker 1: of there. We don't need that state. It's like you 150 00:08:38,520 --> 00:08:40,480 Speaker 1: look at that, You look at those those three pieces 151 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:42,440 Speaker 1: of information, like this is like a fifty fifty shot. 152 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:45,599 Speaker 1: This guy is gonna be Pennsylvania in the twenties and 153 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:51,760 Speaker 1: and a acember baby. Fuck that. His dad was a 154 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:54,559 Speaker 1: brickmaker and his mom was a mom, which was pretty 155 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:56,760 Speaker 1: much the only job most women could expect to work 156 00:08:56,800 --> 00:08:59,959 Speaker 1: at that point in time and place. When Joe was little, 157 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:03,040 Speaker 1: his family moved to Atlantic City, which is like Las Vegas, 158 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:05,240 Speaker 1: but less fun and much sadder because it's on the 159 00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:09,839 Speaker 1: East coast. Um, here's a good Bruce Springsteen's song about that. 160 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:13,400 Speaker 1: He had a difficult childhood, Joe had a pronounced stutter, 161 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:16,160 Speaker 1: and kids back then were even shitty about such things 162 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:19,640 Speaker 1: than they are today. He was bullied relentlessly. When Joe 163 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:22,600 Speaker 1: was eleven, he lost his younger brother to an auto accident, 164 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:25,360 Speaker 1: which was not uncommon in those days because cars didn't 165 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:27,599 Speaker 1: crumple and seat belts were but a fever dream in 166 00:09:27,679 --> 00:09:31,200 Speaker 1: Ralph Nader's I. By the time Joe was a teenager, 167 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:34,160 Speaker 1: his family left Atlantic City, which is always a good decision, 168 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:37,240 Speaker 1: and moved back to Chester, which is a more questionable decision. 169 00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:41,000 Speaker 1: That's all. It's all they knew. It's all they knew. 170 00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:44,800 Speaker 1: We're gonna pile the family into our giant, unstoppable seat 171 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:49,240 Speaker 1: beltless car and drive back to Chester. He went to 172 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:52,480 Speaker 1: high school, and he joined the Marines in nineteen forty two, 173 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:55,160 Speaker 1: which was a popular decision at the time. He joined 174 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:58,120 Speaker 1: as early as he possibly Yeah. For whatever reason, a 175 00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:00,600 Speaker 1: lot of guys joined the military, and Night Team forty 176 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:06,960 Speaker 1: two must have been good ads sums about to happen. Um. 177 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:10,080 Speaker 1: He joined as the early like the first day he 178 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:13,599 Speaker 1: possibly could um and obviously, the US had decided to 179 00:10:13,679 --> 00:10:15,840 Speaker 1: enter World War Two at this point. He was deployed 180 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 1: against the Empire of Japan, and he fought in some 181 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:21,920 Speaker 1: of the war's worst battles across the South Pacific. Joe 182 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:24,080 Speaker 1: survived to the Battle of Okinawa, which is one of 183 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:26,720 Speaker 1: the like, like, one of the worst fights you could 184 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:29,679 Speaker 1: possibly have been in in that war, real, real bad 185 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:35,280 Speaker 1: battle Okinawa. Um. During that battle, a Japanese plane bombed 186 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:38,840 Speaker 1: the forward base he was stationed on, seriously injuring his knee. 187 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:42,840 Speaker 1: He returned home scarred and seasoned by heavy combat. Joe 188 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:45,560 Speaker 1: had won three Bronze Stars for valor in battle and 189 00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:49,160 Speaker 1: a Purple Heart. So he definitely saw some ship. This 190 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:51,760 Speaker 1: is not one of like the draft dodgy right wing guys. 191 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:55,920 Speaker 1: This Ben Shapiro writing war fan fiction, like he went 192 00:10:56,080 --> 00:10:59,000 Speaker 1: to war and got bombs dropped on his leg. Yeah, 193 00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:00,559 Speaker 1: he saw some of the worst ship you could have 194 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:05,280 Speaker 1: seen in that particular conflict. Um. So he returns home 195 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:09,040 Speaker 1: real fucked up, probably with a headful of PTSD, but 196 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 1: they didn't know PTSD was they. I'm assuming he just 197 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:16,720 Speaker 1: drank washed it down with cigarettes. Real headful of horny cats. 198 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:23,680 Speaker 1: When he got home. He didn't know precisely what he 199 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:25,800 Speaker 1: wanted to do with his life, but he was certain 200 00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:28,079 Speaker 1: that it involved putting himself in front of people and 201 00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:31,040 Speaker 1: entertaining them. In order to do that, he felt he 202 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:34,520 Speaker 1: would need to deal with his speech impediment first. Using 203 00:11:34,559 --> 00:11:39,400 Speaker 1: his What led him to that decision, I don't relentlessly bullied, 204 00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:42,880 Speaker 1: went to war, got bombed, his dead brother comes back. 205 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:44,880 Speaker 1: He's like, I'm gonna be an entertainer. I'm gonna be 206 00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:52,440 Speaker 1: an entertainer. I'm gonna come from Yeah. We just don't 207 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:54,559 Speaker 1: know enough about his early life to know like what 208 00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:56,800 Speaker 1: the funk was going on. Maybe he just wanted to 209 00:11:56,800 --> 00:12:00,600 Speaker 1: show people my speech impediment doesn't define me. I don't know. 210 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:06,520 Speaker 1: I beat the Japanese, I can beat stuttering. Um So, 211 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:09,600 Speaker 1: using his g I Bill, Joe enrolled in a drama school. 212 00:12:09,679 --> 00:12:13,200 Speaker 1: He forced himself through agonizing hours of live performances in 213 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:16,439 Speaker 1: front of his classmates to overcome his stutter. He locked 214 00:12:16,520 --> 00:12:18,920 Speaker 1: himself away in his room and would perform hours and 215 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:21,840 Speaker 1: hours of speech drills every day, and eventually he did 216 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:25,480 Speaker 1: overcome his speech impediment. Once he graduated, Joe became a 217 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:28,440 Speaker 1: taxi driver in Chester. He continued to work on his 218 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:32,120 Speaker 1: speech while he was driving people around. Um Eventually, he 219 00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:34,600 Speaker 1: decided he'd come far enough, and he started a career 220 00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:37,440 Speaker 1: as a broadcaster by this point. The way the way 221 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:39,480 Speaker 1: you phrase that made it sound like he was doing 222 00:12:39,559 --> 00:12:46,000 Speaker 1: like his speeches to his passengers. None, give me some notes. 223 00:12:46,679 --> 00:12:48,640 Speaker 1: I got a tight five. I'm gonna run it by you. 224 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:59,200 Speaker 1: There's no seat. You are really dependent upon me. So 225 00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:03,480 Speaker 1: he uh he, he does this, um and uh yeah, 226 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:07,920 Speaker 1: he decides he's he's finished by like late nineteen forty six. Um. 227 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:12,520 Speaker 1: Now again, nineteen forties radio is king. TV's coming around, 228 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:15,880 Speaker 1: But that's still not the number one way people get entertained. 229 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:18,760 Speaker 1: You're you're really Radio is is the top of the 230 00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:21,920 Speaker 1: top of the world, and they assume it will be forever. Uh. 231 00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:24,600 Speaker 1: He was able to convince a station manager in Lumberton, 232 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:27,480 Speaker 1: North Carolina, to give him a job on w t SB. 233 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:30,440 Speaker 1: The pay was twenty five dollars a week, which was 234 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:32,960 Speaker 1: not good money even back then, and he failed to 235 00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:35,400 Speaker 1: stand out enough that he felt he had any hope 236 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:38,920 Speaker 1: of advancement. So after a year he returned home dejected, 237 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:41,839 Speaker 1: but Joe kept pushing until he got another job at 238 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:45,560 Speaker 1: w p w A in Brookhaven, Pennsylvania. He got into 239 00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:47,920 Speaker 1: a vicious argument with his boss while still knew on 240 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:50,640 Speaker 1: the job and was quickly fired. Next he moved to 241 00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:53,520 Speaker 1: w I L M of Wilmington, Delaware, where he was 242 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:56,680 Speaker 1: also quickly fired. Yeah, you get the feeling. He was 243 00:13:56,720 --> 00:14:00,360 Speaker 1: not easy to work with at this point. Um Fully, 244 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:02,839 Speaker 1: email didn't exist, so these people couldn't tell each other 245 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:06,920 Speaker 1: about Joe. He moved back to Chester after this, and 246 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:09,040 Speaker 1: then the Kenosha next where he got a job with 247 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:12,160 Speaker 1: a new network called w I L P. His job 248 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:15,120 Speaker 1: in all of these places was very straightforward, introduced in 249 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:17,679 Speaker 1: play records with a minimum of fanfare. He was not 250 00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:26,280 Speaker 1: being hired to be a personality. Was just fired from Dick. Yeah, 251 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:27,880 Speaker 1: that was a big part of it. Um. He would 252 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 1: riff a lot. He got in trouble in Kenosha, and 253 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:32,080 Speaker 1: I think he'd gotten in trouble before. He would riff 254 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:34,160 Speaker 1: on politics and current events, which was not what we 255 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 1: were supposed to do at the time. So his bosses 256 00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:40,000 Speaker 1: are like nobody, Nobody. People are tuning in to hear 257 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:41,920 Speaker 1: I don't know what the big music that the big bopper. 258 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:44,320 Speaker 1: Nobody wants you. Nobody gives a shit about what you 259 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:48,040 Speaker 1: have to say. Put on Shantilly lace and shut your 260 00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:54,080 Speaker 1: fucking mouth. Smoke a cigarette. Um yeah. The kind of 261 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:56,400 Speaker 1: riffing that he thought was the future of radio was 262 00:14:56,440 --> 00:14:59,040 Speaker 1: simply not done at the time. Commenters were part of 263 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:01,960 Speaker 1: the news department and jockeys were not. Disc Jockeys were 264 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:04,080 Speaker 1: there to entertain, and he'd been hired as a disc jockey. 265 00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:06,640 Speaker 1: Um so, if you were going to be a commentator, 266 00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:08,400 Speaker 1: if you're talking about the news, you didn't like give 267 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:10,840 Speaker 1: your opinion. You try to just kind of like read, 268 00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:15,280 Speaker 1: you know, like the ap wire basically. Um. W l 269 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:18,480 Speaker 1: i P though took callins. Listeners could dial in and 270 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:22,560 Speaker 1: request songs, but Joe started insisting on asking his listeners 271 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:24,760 Speaker 1: what they thought about the political issues of the day, 272 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:26,640 Speaker 1: which was the first time anyone had ever really done 273 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:29,320 Speaker 1: that on radio, like take call ins, and he kind 274 00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:32,200 Speaker 1: of forced the issue of making them political. One w 275 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:35,120 Speaker 1: l i P employee at the time recalled he wanted 276 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:36,760 Speaker 1: to chat with him, but in those days there was 277 00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:38,360 Speaker 1: no way to put a phone line on the air. 278 00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:41,080 Speaker 1: Joe would say uh huh and and then tell the 279 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:43,800 Speaker 1: call the listeners what the callers said. So this is 280 00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:46,240 Speaker 1: like this is the very first talk radio. He's just 281 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:48,560 Speaker 1: on the phone with them being like mmmm, alright, so 282 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:51,440 Speaker 1: here's what he said. Let me tell you what Dennis 283 00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:55,200 Speaker 1: from just say, yeah, and you're like listening to almost 284 00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:59,480 Speaker 1: dead air while he's listening to on the phone. But 285 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:02,000 Speaker 1: this is this is literally the birth of talk radio. 286 00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:04,440 Speaker 1: This is the first time anybody does this, Joe Pine 287 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:07,760 Speaker 1: and he moves along eventually, and I'm gonna to explain 288 00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:09,360 Speaker 1: that process. I'm going to read a quote from a 289 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:12,880 Speaker 1: write up in Smithsonian magazine. One caller objected to the 290 00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:16,200 Speaker 1: young DJs pro union opinions. Do you know anything, sir, 291 00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:19,560 Speaker 1: about the history of labor management relations, Pine asked the man. 292 00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:22,080 Speaker 1: After a moment of dead air, he continued, no, you 293 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:25,400 Speaker 1: keep your voice down. Pine was an expert. Interrupted like 294 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:29,040 Speaker 1: this caller barely paused for breath listening. Pine had an idea. 295 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:32,080 Speaker 1: According to REGANI, who worked there, he held the phone 296 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:35,080 Speaker 1: receiver to his microphone. Now the caller was live on 297 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:38,600 Speaker 1: the air, and call in radio was born. Um, so 298 00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:41,480 Speaker 1: that's nineteen forty nine and Kenosha Joe Pine in vinced 299 00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:44,000 Speaker 1: call in radio by literally holding a phone up to 300 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:47,920 Speaker 1: the mic. In fairness, some random dude calling in to 301 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:51,680 Speaker 1: request Frankie Valley, who had very strong opinions about labor 302 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:56,240 Speaker 1: unions is who actually created it's guys such an ass all, 303 00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:59,800 Speaker 1: I gotta put him on about it. That's a fair 304 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:02,120 Speaker 1: why you got to hear what a piece of ship 305 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:06,080 Speaker 1: this guy is. Let me invent a new discipline that 306 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:11,399 Speaker 1: will later ratchet the country towards violence. Was born in 307 00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:14,840 Speaker 1: stupid anger, and it will kill us all with stupid 308 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:18,399 Speaker 1: and stupid anger. It will return. Yeah, perfect, What a 309 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:23,720 Speaker 1: beautiful way for that to get started. Honestly, And I 310 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:26,240 Speaker 1: love because this guy gives birth to right wing radio. 311 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:28,760 Speaker 1: But he the start of talk radio was him trying 312 00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:31,879 Speaker 1: to defend like the right to unionize, which is that 313 00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:34,160 Speaker 1: was I was not expecting that to be the issue, 314 00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:36,600 Speaker 1: said it. I was like, really that you could be 315 00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:40,000 Speaker 1: pretty conservative and pro union in those because it wasn't. 316 00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:43,280 Speaker 1: It was more racist back then, obviously everything was, but 317 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:46,680 Speaker 1: politics in some ways was less dumb um it wasn't. 318 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:48,359 Speaker 1: It hadn't gotten to the point where it is with 319 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:50,680 Speaker 1: like the right wing left wing, Like conservatism is such 320 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:53,399 Speaker 1: a part of my like identity that like I I 321 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:58,000 Speaker 1: have this vested interest in like demonizing anything like you 322 00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:00,520 Speaker 1: did have a lot of I mean, like like one 323 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:02,479 Speaker 1: of the union strongholds in the US for a long 324 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:05,920 Speaker 1: time was West Virginia. You know, like people like fought 325 00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:10,240 Speaker 1: to the death for Union, said West Virginia with rifles. Um, 326 00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:14,320 Speaker 1: and now it's Joe Mansion country. Uh so, well sorry 327 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:18,119 Speaker 1: West Virginia. UM. But like, yeah, the things were different 328 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:21,960 Speaker 1: than politically, is what I'm saying. And yeah, um so 329 00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:25,320 Speaker 1: Joe was fired. H I think this kind of is 330 00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:27,920 Speaker 1: part of what got him fired because his his boss 331 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:31,080 Speaker 1: at the station was like, he's supposed to be playing songs, Joe, 332 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:35,440 Speaker 1: what are you doing holding their phone to the goddamn microphone. 333 00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:41,800 Speaker 1: Put on the goddamn reck, Put on the fucking twist. Yeah, 334 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:43,719 Speaker 1: do you want to get a rush limbox? Because that's 335 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:45,640 Speaker 1: how you get a limbo. This is how we get 336 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:49,000 Speaker 1: a limb. Put the phone down, put on the goddamn music. 337 00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:52,480 Speaker 1: I don't want to listen to Stephen Crowder's heart surgery 338 00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:55,680 Speaker 1: problems in twenty five year or forty five years, however 339 00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:58,240 Speaker 1: many years, a hundred years, sixty years, whatever, too many 340 00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:02,719 Speaker 1: years to arsh it's year. Nobody nobody is even alive anymore. 341 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:09,280 Speaker 1: No God, thank god. Um So, despite yeah, inventing call 342 00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:12,480 Speaker 1: in radio, Joe's boss did not appreciate him he wanted 343 00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:15,600 Speaker 1: someone to read ads and introduce songs. The two fought constantly. 344 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:18,280 Speaker 1: At one point, Joe demanded a raise, which led to 345 00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:21,199 Speaker 1: a fight. Another w l I P host later recalled 346 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:24,320 Speaker 1: stumbling in on the melee Joe was yelling. She recalled, 347 00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:26,400 Speaker 1: he had one hand on our boss's lapelle. He picked 348 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:29,440 Speaker 1: up a typewriter and threw it against the wall. Oh fuck, 349 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:31,520 Speaker 1: So that gives you a little bit of an idea 350 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:36,040 Speaker 1: of like why this guy keeps having problems with his coworkers. Yeah, 351 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:39,119 Speaker 1: he almost said that was danger. He almost scored some 352 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:40,640 Speaker 1: points of me there because you were like, he picked 353 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:42,800 Speaker 1: up a type. I'm like, here we here, we go 354 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:47,439 Speaker 1: hit him in the fake all right, Well, fair compromise, 355 00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:51,960 Speaker 1: all right. So he gets fired again, and he continues 356 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:54,239 Speaker 1: to move around frequently. You know, while he's going from 357 00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:56,800 Speaker 1: radio station to radio station. He marries a beauty queen. 358 00:19:56,880 --> 00:19:58,920 Speaker 1: He divorces here a year later because she gets sick 359 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:01,399 Speaker 1: of him. U he's working at w y l M. 360 00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:04,560 Speaker 1: He starts a show called It's Your Nickel, so named 361 00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:07,320 Speaker 1: because the nickel was the standard cost for a call 362 00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:10,119 Speaker 1: on a pay phone. And this was the first, yeah, 363 00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:12,840 Speaker 1: proper radio talk show it's your nickel. So he does 364 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:15,359 Speaker 1: get a job doing the thing that he invented, and 365 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:18,560 Speaker 1: that's that became a phrase like it's your dime or 366 00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:21,800 Speaker 1: it's yourn or it's your dollar. Yeah, And I don't 367 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:23,520 Speaker 1: know if that's the he may have just been using 368 00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:26,720 Speaker 1: because it was already like what people said. Um, but yeah, 369 00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:28,439 Speaker 1: I mean he may have invented it. I have not 370 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:31,480 Speaker 1: done that research. Tom Um that someone at home. Well, yeah, 371 00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:33,920 Speaker 1: something something that sticks out to me about old Joe 372 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:39,240 Speaker 1: Pine is that he has trouble forming lasting relationships. Yeah. 373 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:42,200 Speaker 1: He goes from job the job. Marri's a woman, divorces 374 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:45,360 Speaker 1: her late like he seems like he might be impossible 375 00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:48,160 Speaker 1: to be around. It does, and it also again, this 376 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:50,840 Speaker 1: is one of those black box of history things. I 377 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:53,200 Speaker 1: do kind of wonder how much of this is a PTSD, 378 00:20:53,359 --> 00:20:55,720 Speaker 1: because that can make it real hard to get along 379 00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:58,240 Speaker 1: with people and a hard to regulate your emotions. It 380 00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:00,440 Speaker 1: might make you more likely to throw it to ypewriter. 381 00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:03,840 Speaker 1: He did get bombed in one of the most notorious 382 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:08,560 Speaker 1: battles of World War two. Yeah, yeah, who knows. It's 383 00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:10,800 Speaker 1: It's one of those things. It's like lead exposure, which 384 00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:13,360 Speaker 1: I'm sure Joe Pint was also exposed to a tremendous 385 00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:15,199 Speaker 1: amount of lead. Like, you wonder how much of an 386 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:18,520 Speaker 1: impact did this have on like the way people were 387 00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:21,520 Speaker 1: back then. We wonder how many people were just walking 388 00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:25,359 Speaker 1: around poisoned and crazy like seventy years ago, just because 389 00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:27,560 Speaker 1: that's the way it was. Yeah, I mean there's there's 390 00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:29,879 Speaker 1: there's a lot of like pretty strong evidence that at 391 00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:32,360 Speaker 1: least the lead exposure may have been part of why 392 00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:35,200 Speaker 1: there was so much more violence back you know, even 393 00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:38,080 Speaker 1: just like twenty something years ago. Um, because everybody was 394 00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:42,520 Speaker 1: inhaling lead and eating lead off the walls. And I 395 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:45,560 Speaker 1: do want some delicious lead tom Um. Yeah, there's nothing 396 00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:47,840 Speaker 1: that goes with like a nice breathe. Like you get 397 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:49,800 Speaker 1: a lead chip and you just dip it in a breath. 398 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:53,520 Speaker 1: That's a good Yeah. Nice meat mixes sweet and savory 399 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:56,639 Speaker 1: like a lead flight. Yeah, like a lead flight, like 400 00:21:56,680 --> 00:21:59,080 Speaker 1: a flight of lead. I'm gonna start a lead stairant, Tom, 401 00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:01,320 Speaker 1: I think you should. Yeah, lead in every food, Yeah, 402 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:05,159 Speaker 1: little lead bar, get the lead out. We'll call it 403 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:08,119 Speaker 1: a lead chicken in every pot. Now, Tom, you know 404 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:11,760 Speaker 1: who else will expose you to tremendous amounts of lead? Uh, 405 00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:14,879 Speaker 1: the X Men Colossus. That that is probably accurate. I 406 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:16,840 Speaker 1: don't know as much about x Men as you, um, 407 00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:21,400 Speaker 1: but the products and services that support this podcast certainly 408 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:24,200 Speaker 1: will expose you to lead. That is the only guarantee 409 00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:26,840 Speaker 1: we make about our sponsors, every one of them filled 410 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 1: with lead. It's powerful guarantee. We're back, UM. And I 411 00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:41,360 Speaker 1: wanted to start this by letting my nothing my audience 412 00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:43,800 Speaker 1: know that that our guest today, Tom Ryman, has a 413 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:46,520 Speaker 1: bit of a superpower, which is and everyone who knows 414 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:48,199 Speaker 1: you know is this Tom, Which is that when you 415 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:50,560 Speaker 1: when you whenever you mentioned a movie and you will 416 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:52,399 Speaker 1: talk about, like, you know that guy who was in 417 00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 1: the background and that in that scene in American Beauty, 418 00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:56,560 Speaker 1: and you'll be like, oh, yeah, it's such and such, 419 00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:58,760 Speaker 1: and this is the other films they were in. I've 420 00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:00,639 Speaker 1: never known anybody who can do that the way that 421 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:06,680 Speaker 1: you can. It's yeah, I thought you were going to 422 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:09,399 Speaker 1: tell everybody about my optic blasts. So I'm glad. No, 423 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:15,800 Speaker 1: I'm keeping that a secret for when Rob a Bank. No, 424 00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:17,560 Speaker 1: I've been, I've been. I don't know. I just I 425 00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:21,479 Speaker 1: do that like I keep it encyclopedic record of of 426 00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:24,800 Speaker 1: dates and like people in movies and stuff. I don't know, 427 00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:28,600 Speaker 1: it's it's uh, I'm probably somewhere on the spectrum. But 428 00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:31,080 Speaker 1: just the thing I do, I don't know, it's almost 429 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:33,199 Speaker 1: a souper like it is kind of a superpower like 430 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:35,679 Speaker 1: it's it's really it's really fun. And it made like 431 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:37,360 Speaker 1: when we when we were all I mean I lived 432 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:39,679 Speaker 1: together with like half of the people we worked with. 433 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:41,879 Speaker 1: It cracked and you were always over and just the 434 00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:45,200 Speaker 1: movie conversations with you and Dave were always a tremendous 435 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:49,000 Speaker 1: amount of fun. Why I listened to your podcasts. Thanks 436 00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:52,480 Speaker 1: Now we lived in your room, remember, Oh yeah you did. Yeah, 437 00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:56,679 Speaker 1: I was up in the mountain. I was I was 438 00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:59,720 Speaker 1: doing redacted things in the mountains and and mostly not 439 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:02,159 Speaker 1: home at that point in time, I'd forgotten about that. 440 00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:07,440 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, uh. The days of our lives like sand 441 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:10,919 Speaker 1: through the hourglass, tom So, like led through the hour glass, 442 00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:13,720 Speaker 1: like led through the hour glass. So Joe Pine gets 443 00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:16,760 Speaker 1: his first proper radio talk show, It's Your Nickel on 444 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:19,280 Speaker 1: w I l M. And again he's he's out of there, 445 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:20,800 Speaker 1: he's in there. I think this is like his second 446 00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:24,399 Speaker 1: time working for them. Um and this article from the 447 00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:28,040 Speaker 1: Broadcasters desktop resource makes it clear what kind of show. 448 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:31,439 Speaker 1: Joe ran the very first radio talk show quote. In 449 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:33,920 Speaker 1: his nightly introduction, he said, the mic is open. My 450 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:37,040 Speaker 1: name's Joe Pine. I guess you know yours the program. 451 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:39,680 Speaker 1: This program is dedicated to the free exchange of ideas 452 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:42,280 Speaker 1: and two differences of opinion. I don't know. I don't 453 00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:44,600 Speaker 1: propose to have all the answers, but I do promise 454 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:46,800 Speaker 1: to talk about the things that interest you. So that's 455 00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:51,080 Speaker 1: a nice little there's that free exchange of ideas. He did, 456 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:53,679 Speaker 1: I think kind of mean it as opposed to the 457 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:56,520 Speaker 1: people who say it today. I think they're naping him. 458 00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:59,720 Speaker 1: But I'll play you some clips from his he did. 459 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:03,240 Speaker 1: He was, yeah, it's interesting. Um Now. The show did 460 00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:06,920 Speaker 1: often become a shout a shout fest, with Pine definitely 461 00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:09,760 Speaker 1: in control. No topic was sacred, from sex to religion 462 00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:11,800 Speaker 1: to politics. But when he felt a listener had gone 463 00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:13,720 Speaker 1: on for too long it was making no sense, he 464 00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:16,200 Speaker 1: would make a rude remark, like you're sick and hang 465 00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:19,760 Speaker 1: up on the post person, enduring Pine's abuse of rhetoric 466 00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:22,359 Speaker 1: the challenge to the audience, many of whom tried to 467 00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:24,840 Speaker 1: debate him before he hung up on them. His views 468 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:27,080 Speaker 1: tended to be quite conservative most of the time, and 469 00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:29,840 Speaker 1: Pine seemed to dare his listeners to disagree with him. 470 00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:33,240 Speaker 1: His style of arguing included using very derogatory terms. Known 471 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:35,560 Speaker 1: for being adept with words, his arsenal of insults and 472 00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:38,240 Speaker 1: put downs became the stuff of legends. Among his best 473 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:40,800 Speaker 1: known were if your brains were dynamite, you couldn't blow 474 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:43,840 Speaker 1: your nose. There was also go gargle with razor blades 475 00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:46,000 Speaker 1: and take your teeth out, put him in backwards and 476 00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:50,760 Speaker 1: bite your throat. Jesus Christ, at least a man's creative. 477 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:53,840 Speaker 1: The third one is pretty nice. Yeah, I heard the 478 00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:55,520 Speaker 1: other two. I'm like, yeah, there's are old standards and 479 00:25:55,800 --> 00:26:01,880 Speaker 1: turn your teeth around. I'm like, oh yeah. So when 480 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:04,360 Speaker 1: he this is in nineteen fifty one too, while he's 481 00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:06,600 Speaker 1: in the middle of changing Radio Forever, his old war 482 00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:09,800 Speaker 1: injury flares up badly enough that surgeons have to amputate 483 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:13,120 Speaker 1: his left leg from the down. Um. So he's back 484 00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:15,600 Speaker 1: in the studio with a prosthetic limb soon after, And 485 00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:18,120 Speaker 1: while the fake leg was obvious to everyone who saw him, 486 00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:20,800 Speaker 1: he never meant he or it did get mentioned on air. 487 00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:22,600 Speaker 1: We'll talk about that a bit, but he refused to 488 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:25,880 Speaker 1: mention it on air. Judging by his pro union views, 489 00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:27,760 Speaker 1: Joe was at least one at one point at least 490 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:29,879 Speaker 1: more of a moderate than he became. But the longer 491 00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:32,879 Speaker 1: he's on doing talk radio, he pulls further and further 492 00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:36,720 Speaker 1: to the right. Um. In nineteen fifty three, he celebrated 493 00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:40,480 Speaker 1: on air when the US electrocuted Julius and Ethel Rosenberg, saying, 494 00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:43,640 Speaker 1: we finally incinerated those commies. I hope it was slow 495 00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:48,439 Speaker 1: and painful. Good. Uh, that's interesting that the longer I mean, 496 00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:50,520 Speaker 1: I'm sure you're gonna make this connection. But the longer 497 00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:52,760 Speaker 1: he's on the air, the more conservative he pulls. And 498 00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:57,720 Speaker 1: I wonder could that be because having bad faith arguments 499 00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:03,600 Speaker 1: to generate we call him Ray clicks now, but stoke 500 00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:07,720 Speaker 1: controversy by needling people and by playing the devil's advocate 501 00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:12,439 Speaker 1: just to get people heated and arguing to fuel ratings 502 00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:16,280 Speaker 1: for his own show. Yeah, I I really don't know. Um, 503 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:19,280 Speaker 1: I'm sure that was an element of it, because because 504 00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:22,440 Speaker 1: clearly he's going after controversy, he's going after rage kids. 505 00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:24,639 Speaker 1: But also we'll talk about it. He was not always 506 00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:27,919 Speaker 1: the guy you would expect um. That's that's yeah, so 507 00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:30,480 Speaker 1: we're building that. So Joe had a keen understanding of 508 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:33,720 Speaker 1: how to communicate with the lowest common denominator in US politics. 509 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:37,320 Speaker 1: He told reporters, quite without shame, that radio was geared 510 00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:40,320 Speaker 1: towards the mentality of thirteen year old kids, and then 511 00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:43,600 Speaker 1: most Americans were politically apathetic and easy to persuade of 512 00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:46,920 Speaker 1: just about anything. He claimed that he used shocking language 513 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:49,399 Speaker 1: and would make extreme allegations in order to get people 514 00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:51,720 Speaker 1: to think. He told The l A Times that while 515 00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:54,280 Speaker 1: his critics called him a hate monger, all he really 516 00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:58,199 Speaker 1: did was encouraged stimulating dialogue. He see, he knows what 517 00:27:58,200 --> 00:27:59,760 Speaker 1: he's doing. And I think that's a big part of 518 00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:01,840 Speaker 1: like he gets more right wing in his because it's 519 00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:04,000 Speaker 1: easier to kind of, like again, speak to the mentality 520 00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:06,080 Speaker 1: of thirteen year old kids. If you're just like making 521 00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:09,160 Speaker 1: these kind of reactionary arguments. He wants to piss people 522 00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:10,920 Speaker 1: off so that they react and he gets a show 523 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:13,879 Speaker 1: out of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a part of it. 524 00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:15,760 Speaker 1: That's not all of it, because he is When there 525 00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:17,639 Speaker 1: were times when he would be challenged, and it kind 526 00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:20,200 Speaker 1: of depended on how it was if he found someone interesting, 527 00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:22,679 Speaker 1: even if they were coming in from a very different perspective, 528 00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:25,399 Speaker 1: he would let them talk and sometimes very respectfully. So 529 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:27,719 Speaker 1: he was not well, he's he's the start, and he's 530 00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:30,400 Speaker 1: doing a lot of unpleasant stuff. He's also not He's 531 00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:33,760 Speaker 1: unequivocally a better person than Ben Shapiro, was what I'm saying, 532 00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:36,760 Speaker 1: like right like, his goal in any given conversation wasn't 533 00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:39,400 Speaker 1: just to own them. He would actually listen to people 534 00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:41,680 Speaker 1: sometimes who are bringing up some pretty radical stuff. We'll 535 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:45,280 Speaker 1: get to that. Nineteen fifty seven, a little over after 536 00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:47,800 Speaker 1: a little over six years on air, Joe left w 537 00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:50,360 Speaker 1: y l M. This time it was his own choice. 538 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:53,200 Speaker 1: He was famous, at least locally, and his salary was 539 00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:55,560 Speaker 1: forty two tho dollars a year, which is almost ten 540 00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:58,520 Speaker 1: times the average salary form it's about four hundred grand 541 00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:01,240 Speaker 1: a year in like modern dollars like. He was making 542 00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:04,760 Speaker 1: real good money. This time, Joe left because his dreams 543 00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:08,280 Speaker 1: had overgrown a very comfortable work in condition Um. He 544 00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:10,920 Speaker 1: traveled to Riverside, California, and he got a job at 545 00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:13,280 Speaker 1: a local radio station that quickly led to a TV 546 00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:16,040 Speaker 1: job at kat l A and Los Angeles. He would 547 00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:18,600 Speaker 1: later claim that his first TV show, which was essentially 548 00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:21,000 Speaker 1: a filmed version of It's Your Nickel, had been a 549 00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:23,840 Speaker 1: huge success. But the show lasted less than a year, 550 00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:27,280 Speaker 1: and I found no clips of it anywhere. Um Joe 551 00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:31,600 Speaker 1: moved back. Yeah, I'd be surprised if they're still there 552 00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:33,560 Speaker 1: is a we have some clips of his the show 553 00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:35,520 Speaker 1: that come next, came next, but it's because there's like 554 00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:38,960 Speaker 1: a grassroots archival effort to like digitize all of the 555 00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:42,440 Speaker 1: old tape master tapes. So after his first year in 556 00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:44,920 Speaker 1: l A, Joe moves back across the country to Chester, 557 00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:47,720 Speaker 1: where he works for a Philadelphia TV station for a 558 00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:49,440 Speaker 1: first time for the for a short time, and then 559 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:51,880 Speaker 1: he goes back to w y l M for a 560 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:54,520 Speaker 1: little while. He licks his wounds. He's wounds. He seemed 561 00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:56,800 Speaker 1: to know that a show like his, a political talk 562 00:29:56,840 --> 00:30:00,000 Speaker 1: show where people could scream about politics to a mass audience, 563 00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:01,520 Speaker 1: was the wave of the future and was going to 564 00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:05,000 Speaker 1: be huge on television, but the world wasn't ready quite yet. 565 00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:08,440 Speaker 1: For a few years, Joe continued to broadcast, but in 566 00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:11,200 Speaker 1: the early nineteen sixties he decided the time was finally 567 00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:13,280 Speaker 1: right and he moved back to l A. Where he 568 00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:16,000 Speaker 1: got a job at k ABC and I'm gonna quote 569 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:20,640 Speaker 1: from the broadcasters desktop resource again. Once again, he polarized 570 00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:23,120 Speaker 1: the audience, with some listeners and guests complaining he was 571 00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:26,240 Speaker 1: too caustic, and others saying his candor was refreshing. But 572 00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:28,920 Speaker 1: as in Wilmington's he had people talking about him and 573 00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:31,840 Speaker 1: his show. From k ABC, he went over to k 574 00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:34,400 Speaker 1: l a c in at nineteen sixty five doing the 575 00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:38,560 Speaker 1: nine pm to midnight shift. Never want to avoid controversial guests, 576 00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:40,840 Speaker 1: he put Nazis and members of the Ku Klux Klan 577 00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:45,080 Speaker 1: on the air displeasure yeah, oh yeah, dope selearning the 578 00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:47,680 Speaker 1: displeasure of the American Jewish Committee and a warning from 579 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:50,160 Speaker 1: the f c C. He also had guests, guests who 580 00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:52,880 Speaker 1: believe it in eugenics, guests who were racists, guests with 581 00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:56,480 Speaker 1: strange theories about past lives or UFOs, and the arguments continued. 582 00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:00,920 Speaker 1: Controversy sold Joe salary balloon to two hundred thousand dollars 583 00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:02,840 Speaker 1: a year, which is nearly two million a year by 584 00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:06,760 Speaker 1: modern standards. NBC, Yeah he's making it bang, I mean, 585 00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:10,000 Speaker 1: this is soon. He's giving people like what Tucker Carlson 586 00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:11,760 Speaker 1: and stuff. Now I will be fair when he has 587 00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:14,160 Speaker 1: Nazis and KKK members on so that he can scream 588 00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:17,120 Speaker 1: at them, like yeah, well that it's still like it's 589 00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:19,600 Speaker 1: still but like there's it's still problematic, but it's not 590 00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:22,120 Speaker 1: as problematic as it is today, where you have people 591 00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:28,400 Speaker 1: affiliated with similar organisms. You're talking about how yeah, get 592 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:30,760 Speaker 1: the hell out of here. He was getting outrage clicks. 593 00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:33,320 Speaker 1: But at least the the understanding was people are going 594 00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:37,280 Speaker 1: to hate these night. At least that was like the understanding. Yeah, 595 00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:41,600 Speaker 1: at least that was the understanding. Yeah. Again, you can 596 00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:44,520 Speaker 1: still argue, and I think it is pretty irresponsible to 597 00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:46,600 Speaker 1: do that, but at least the understanding was, like, funk 598 00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:49,640 Speaker 1: these guys. Let's let's yell at him here, let's not 599 00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:54,120 Speaker 1: let's hear him out. Yeah. NBC Radio Network started syndicating 600 00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:56,800 Speaker 1: his show nationally in March of nineteen sixty six, and 601 00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:59,080 Speaker 1: it was soon on more than two hundred stations around 602 00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:01,480 Speaker 1: the country. He called what he did fist in the 603 00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:03,960 Speaker 1: mouth Radio, and now that he was on a new 604 00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:07,400 Speaker 1: time slot the mid morning rather than the night as 605 00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:11,360 Speaker 1: he'd usually been before, his ratings exploded. This is generally 606 00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:12,920 Speaker 1: thought to be due to the fact that being on 607 00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:15,040 Speaker 1: earlier in the day, opened him up to a vast 608 00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:19,360 Speaker 1: new audience of board housewives. People were titilated. One of 609 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:22,640 Speaker 1: his networks advertised the show in a full page newspaper spread, 610 00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:25,200 Speaker 1: listing all the Nazis and klansmen and other pieces of 611 00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:27,160 Speaker 1: ship he'd had on his show, and then concluding with 612 00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:30,120 Speaker 1: you may agree or disagree with Joe Pine, you may 613 00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:32,440 Speaker 1: scream in rage at some of his remarks, but you 614 00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:37,400 Speaker 1: won't turn him off. Yeah, I mean, what's what's the 615 00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:39,480 Speaker 1: intent of that day? Is that? Is that shaming me? 616 00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:43,640 Speaker 1: Is that like, yeah, yeah, you feel bad? I do, 617 00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:48,120 Speaker 1: but you will turn him off? Yeah? You motherfucker you 618 00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:52,800 Speaker 1: unless you turn him off. What this motherfucker off the air? 619 00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:55,440 Speaker 1: But we can't. You like goom too much. Just son 620 00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:57,760 Speaker 1: of a bitch. We tried to lock him the doors. 621 00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:04,280 Speaker 1: He just shows up inside somehow secret doors. So Joe 622 00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:06,160 Speaker 1: was on both the radio and the TV, and his 623 00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:08,800 Speaker 1: television show All Learn alone earned him more money per 624 00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:12,000 Speaker 1: year than Mickey Mantle played playing made playing for the Yankees. 625 00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:15,320 Speaker 1: So he's making like more than Mickey Mantle money. Now, 626 00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:18,360 Speaker 1: professional sports players made less money in those days, but 627 00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:21,360 Speaker 1: still he's he's raking it. In he was the top 628 00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:23,720 Speaker 1: rated talk show host and the second largest market in 629 00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:26,800 Speaker 1: the US. Yeah, it feels wrong that that. I don't know. Yeah, 630 00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:29,959 Speaker 1: like you said, professional athletes made less money back then, 631 00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:33,800 Speaker 1: But like he feels wrong that, like's I know who 632 00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:39,320 Speaker 1: Mickey mantelists anyone? Shouldn't he make all the money? So 633 00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:43,440 Speaker 1: from Smithsonian Magazine quote. At a time when TV's leading 634 00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:46,760 Speaker 1: men included Walter Cronkite, Edward R. Murrow, Andy Griffith, and 635 00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:50,360 Speaker 1: Captain Kangaroo, Pine was the medium's first shock jock, a 636 00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:53,720 Speaker 1: firebrand who invited hippies, civil rights activists, and ku klux 637 00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:56,400 Speaker 1: klansmen alike to take a hike or go gargle with 638 00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:59,040 Speaker 1: razor blades. By the mid sixties, he was the most 639 00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:02,080 Speaker 1: popular TV rate your Voice in America. Johnny Carson had 640 00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:05,000 Speaker 1: more television viewers, but Pine, with a syndicated TV show 641 00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:07,960 Speaker 1: and two hundred plus radio outlets, had an audience to rifle. 642 00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:12,080 Speaker 1: Johnny's Life magazine called him sadistic, a barroom tough, but 643 00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:14,839 Speaker 1: millions turned in to watch the fireworks. When a guest 644 00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:18,120 Speaker 1: advocating free love set off a melee, Pines audience charged 645 00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:21,400 Speaker 1: the set and knocked it flat One guest, the suave 646 00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:24,480 Speaker 1: TV personality David Suskin, earned a chorus of booze for 647 00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:28,000 Speaker 1: calling Pines program an orgy for morons. Host and guests 648 00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:30,080 Speaker 1: both got a kick out of that. So it is 649 00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:32,879 Speaker 1: like the first on air fight, Sringer. Yeah, yeah, he's 650 00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:38,799 Speaker 1: also like Jerry Springer, the first Springs and um yeah Morton. 651 00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:43,600 Speaker 1: We'll be talking about Morton later. Yeah. Um, like all, 652 00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:47,720 Speaker 1: it's not just like Tucker Carlson the time they cracked 653 00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:52,560 Speaker 1: every aspect of this really did he He's an important 654 00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:56,720 Speaker 1: man to know about, Like he really Uh, he figured 655 00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:00,080 Speaker 1: he was. Yeah, he figured some ship out most a 656 00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:02,400 Speaker 1: bit shout. I wish no one had figured out, but 657 00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:05,239 Speaker 1: he did figure it out. I can make millions if 658 00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:08,319 Speaker 1: I put Nazis on the air. Yeah. Now, I think 659 00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:09,960 Speaker 1: it's probably a better time to give you a better 660 00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:12,200 Speaker 1: idea of how Joe sounded, because when you read it 661 00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:14,240 Speaker 1: out the way I have put it together, it probably 662 00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:17,960 Speaker 1: sounds like he's like a stereotypical modern shock jock. And 663 00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:21,560 Speaker 1: while he was the prototype for that, his actual broadcasting 664 00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:24,479 Speaker 1: style was much more subdued and witty. In this clip, 665 00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:28,360 Speaker 1: Joe interviews an early vegan activist and what he called 666 00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:31,680 Speaker 1: his beef box. Check it out. As you cannot hear 667 00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:36,240 Speaker 1: the screams of a lamb in the slaughterhouse, you cannot 668 00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:41,440 Speaker 1: hear the screams of your son on the battlefield. I 669 00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:44,200 Speaker 1: I would like to ask you a meaningful question at 670 00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:48,680 Speaker 1: this point. Are you a vegetarian? I am? Indeed? Do 671 00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:53,000 Speaker 1: you ever eat tomatoes? I would say to you when 672 00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:57,400 Speaker 1: the last three thousand years, man, imagine you a question? 673 00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:03,399 Speaker 1: Do you ever eat tomatoes? Do you eat tomatoes? Of 674 00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:07,359 Speaker 1: course I do you do? Do you know that there 675 00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:10,720 Speaker 1: is now scientific proof that when you cut a tomato 676 00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:15,480 Speaker 1: with screams, there is electrical there is a let a 677 00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:21,360 Speaker 1: killer of tomatoes, and my friend tomato doesn't pay. The 678 00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:25,120 Speaker 1: tomato feels no pain, and you're killing tomatoes blood does 679 00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:35,319 Speaker 1: homado tomato? Guys, smild take alf Why are you gonna 680 00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:40,320 Speaker 1: sing something? I would all right, this is a tomato stump. 681 00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:51,040 Speaker 1: Uh as the animal dies, the slaughter of that animal, 682 00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:56,719 Speaker 1: all right, that's probably enough of that. So yeah, what 683 00:36:56,719 --> 00:36:58,279 Speaker 1: do you what do you think of? That was not 684 00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:02,360 Speaker 1: what I was expecting. He sounds like Walter Cronkite and 685 00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:04,640 Speaker 1: then he flips the funk out. Yeah, And then he 686 00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:07,439 Speaker 1: flips the funk out, but he starts from this real 687 00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:09,879 Speaker 1: low ed and he also does like he says, get off. 688 00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:11,200 Speaker 1: But then the guy's like, well I want to sing, 689 00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:15,520 Speaker 1: and he's like absolutely, please do. This is great. Yeah, 690 00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:18,120 Speaker 1: that's going to be incredible content. And that clip was 691 00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:23,319 Speaker 1: from six. Yeah, nineteen six feels extremely modern, especially like 692 00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:29,919 Speaker 1: almost be on TV today his his extremely bad faith argument. Yeah, 693 00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:33,520 Speaker 1: it's it's all he's a he's a he's a trailblazer time. Yeah, 694 00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:36,120 Speaker 1: this guy can put this dude on TV right now 695 00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:39,920 Speaker 1: and he would be the hottest thing. Yeah, it's amazing, 696 00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:44,319 Speaker 1: and there's a level of almost um. Yeah, it's just 697 00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:48,399 Speaker 1: different than the way they mock people today. Um, it's 698 00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:52,279 Speaker 1: almost more. It's almost gentler um in a weird way. 699 00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:56,800 Speaker 1: He's he's not he's not the same as what came after. Again, 700 00:37:56,880 --> 00:38:00,080 Speaker 1: he's this weird mix of what we have today. And 701 00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:03,400 Speaker 1: like Walter Cronkite, it's it's a fascinating, it's fascinating to 702 00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:06,640 Speaker 1: just listen to his stuff. Um. When the civil rights 703 00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:09,200 Speaker 1: movement kicked off, Joe devoted a tremendous amount of time 704 00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:12,840 Speaker 1: to discussing the angry negro, which um it's more or 705 00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:20,520 Speaker 1: less what you'd expect. In one episode, he brought on 706 00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:23,840 Speaker 1: several militant black activists. I believe they were black panthers, 707 00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:25,799 Speaker 1: and in a heated moment during the show. I've not 708 00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:28,040 Speaker 1: been able to find this clip, but it's very famous. 709 00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:30,560 Speaker 1: During the show, he opens his desk drawer to show 710 00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:34,560 Speaker 1: them his revolver and he threatens them with it on air. UM, 711 00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:38,480 Speaker 1: so he we could, he could go off. He advocated 712 00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:42,640 Speaker 1: bombing North Vietnam back to the Stone Age, obviously, UM, 713 00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:44,799 Speaker 1: but he could also be a surprising man. And part 714 00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:47,359 Speaker 1: became because he came from an era in which political 715 00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:50,160 Speaker 1: figures could admit to learning something and changing their opinion, 716 00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:52,520 Speaker 1: and in part because some of the issues that are 717 00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:55,440 Speaker 1: now very aggressive are a lot less. We're a lot 718 00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:57,520 Speaker 1: less settled in those days in terms of like how 719 00:38:57,520 --> 00:38:59,680 Speaker 1: it was going to break down right or left. So 720 00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:05,000 Speaker 1: he conducted an interview with Cosmopolitan editor Helen Gurley Brown UM, 721 00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:06,919 Speaker 1: and he started the interview by calling her a ding 722 00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:09,520 Speaker 1: bat and then asked her to explain why girls should 723 00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:12,359 Speaker 1: be considered equal to men in the workplace. But then 724 00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:15,440 Speaker 1: he sat quietly while she gave her speech, like explaining 725 00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:18,719 Speaker 1: her piece on women's liberation, and he applauded her at 726 00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:22,000 Speaker 1: the end of it. Um, he was certainly more polite 727 00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:24,000 Speaker 1: to women than towards men, and more polite to white 728 00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:27,760 Speaker 1: people towards black people. But even when Uh, in interviewing 729 00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:31,279 Speaker 1: people he clearly despised, Joe maintained an air that's just 730 00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:34,839 Speaker 1: so much more congenial than what you see on TV today. Um. 731 00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:37,359 Speaker 1: Here he is talking to Paul Krassner, a left wing 732 00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:40,320 Speaker 1: magazine publisher who later went on to head High Times. 733 00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:43,880 Speaker 1: So this is him talking with someone he fucking hates. Uh. 734 00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:48,520 Speaker 1: Which deodorant does Lyndon Johnson use? Now? What does that mean? 735 00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:55,120 Speaker 1: What is that? Paul Krassner? What is that? Which deodorant 736 00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:59,520 Speaker 1: does Lyndon Johnson used? That's your front page head? Yes? 737 00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:03,960 Speaker 1: Do you want to know which one by brand name? No? 738 00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:05,560 Speaker 1: I want to know what is that? What is the 739 00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:07,840 Speaker 1: what is the reason for that? Well? I think that 740 00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:10,719 Speaker 1: the President of the United States is it such a 741 00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:16,359 Speaker 1: height that people have a height height? He's put out 742 00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:18,360 Speaker 1: such a pedestal that people have to realize that he 743 00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:20,640 Speaker 1: is only a human being and does use a deodorant 744 00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:30,680 Speaker 1: like you and me? And I'm a little worried about you. 745 00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:38,879 Speaker 1: He's lighting a cigarette now, so yeah, that's like it's 746 00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:42,319 Speaker 1: clearly again this is not somebody he particularly respects. But 747 00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:45,520 Speaker 1: it's also like it's not a shouting debate. I guess 748 00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:48,479 Speaker 1: this is what impresses, not impresses. Is the thing that 749 00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:50,920 Speaker 1: that is interesting to me because like, you don't you 750 00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:55,719 Speaker 1: don't have that kind of like congenial distaste. Is how 751 00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:58,120 Speaker 1: it it feels watching them. Yeah, he feels more like 752 00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:03,200 Speaker 1: Carson than like um A Tucker Carlson at this point. Yeah, 753 00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:05,160 Speaker 1: And it's the kind I wish I could find the 754 00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:07,960 Speaker 1: thing the interview he does with those those black panthers 755 00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:11,320 Speaker 1: where he shows them his revolver, because I've heard different 756 00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:13,160 Speaker 1: descriptions of it, some that make it sound like he's 757 00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:14,759 Speaker 1: threatening them with a gun, and some that make it 758 00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:16,640 Speaker 1: sound like he's just like, well, I have a gun too, 759 00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:19,640 Speaker 1: and like I really don't know I and I don't 760 00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:21,719 Speaker 1: I don't know what the actual tone was in that. 761 00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:24,640 Speaker 1: Either one is entirely possible based on what you've shown 762 00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:29,319 Speaker 1: me exactly. Either one makes complete sense, like he's he's 763 00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:32,680 Speaker 1: more polite, but he's still he's still oh for sure, 764 00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:38,239 Speaker 1: faith arguments and it's like yeah, and the interview with 765 00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:42,000 Speaker 1: Krassner got markedly less friendly after the ad break from 766 00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:45,600 Speaker 1: Smithsonian magazine quote why do you print the most obscene words? 767 00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:47,920 Speaker 1: Pine demanded, do you edit your magazine because you were 768 00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:52,040 Speaker 1: an unwanted child, to which Krastner responds, no, Daddy. Their 769 00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:54,560 Speaker 1: talk with Downhill from there. He asked me about my 770 00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:57,759 Speaker 1: acne scars, says Krassner. Now five, that was a low blow. 771 00:41:57,880 --> 00:41:59,839 Speaker 1: I said, let me ask you something. Do you take 772 00:41:59,880 --> 00:42:02,240 Speaker 1: a your wooden leg before you make love to your wife? 773 00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:06,160 Speaker 1: And it's jo dropped. According to Krassner, the audience gasped, 774 00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:10,160 Speaker 1: while Pines producers averted their eyes and Mr Ki surrealistic. 775 00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:15,080 Speaker 1: That's good TV. Though, right there, that's good TV. So 776 00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:18,160 Speaker 1: the listeners know this cool was his clip sixty seventh 777 00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:26,560 Speaker 1: sixties seven Yet do you your fake leg in the sixties? Yeah, 778 00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:30,440 Speaker 1: Andy Griffith is the biggest name in entertainment, and this 779 00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:33,560 Speaker 1: ship's on TV. Holy sh it, like you could see, like, 780 00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:35,160 Speaker 1: and that's part of the other thing that's interesting. Like 781 00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:36,920 Speaker 1: I'm gonna guess a lot of his audience, if not 782 00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:39,040 Speaker 1: most of it, weren't right wing, Like a lot of 783 00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:41,400 Speaker 1: them are probably people who would like guys like Paul Krassner, 784 00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:43,640 Speaker 1: but like want to see ship like this on TV. 785 00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:47,480 Speaker 1: Um people have these kind of like conversations, So talk 786 00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:51,000 Speaker 1: to fucking anyone, um and he could surprise you. But 787 00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:52,879 Speaker 1: before we get into that, Tom, you know what else 788 00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:56,480 Speaker 1: is going to surprise? You know, the quality of the 789 00:42:56,480 --> 00:43:00,720 Speaker 1: products and services that support this podcast would be a surprise. Yeah, 790 00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:10,959 Speaker 1: it will be a surprise. We're back, uh, and we're 791 00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:12,520 Speaker 1: we're talking about what I think is one of the 792 00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:16,319 Speaker 1: more surprising things I found. Um So, Joe Pine was 793 00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:18,600 Speaker 1: one of the very first major media figures in the 794 00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:23,120 Speaker 1: United States to platform a transgender woman discussing trans issues. Uh, 795 00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:26,080 Speaker 1: and he did show in a way that is incredibly 796 00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:29,000 Speaker 1: surprising for the time. This is from nineteen sixties six, 797 00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:32,279 Speaker 1: um and I want to just play this. And the 798 00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:35,160 Speaker 1: woman he's talking to, Christine Jorgenson, was like one of 799 00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:40,640 Speaker 1: the very first super public transgender media figures, very famous, 800 00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:43,359 Speaker 1: very famous. Um So, he's he's certainly not the first 801 00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:44,640 Speaker 1: person to talk to her, but he's one of the 802 00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:46,719 Speaker 1: first people the massive platform to sit down and have 803 00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:50,520 Speaker 1: a long conversation with a transgender person in a a 804 00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:53,759 Speaker 1: major outlet. And I think the tone of the conversation, 805 00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:55,840 Speaker 1: given where we are now with the right wing on 806 00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:59,239 Speaker 1: this issue, is going to be surprising to people. Yeah, 807 00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:03,319 Speaker 1: it was our guests who first flushed the problems of 808 00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:07,040 Speaker 1: transsexuals into the open. Christine Jorgensen was born a male. 809 00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:11,480 Speaker 1: She was described in her high school annual as a 810 00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:14,800 Speaker 1: clever lad. Later she became a private first class in 811 00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:19,200 Speaker 1: the Army. Though outwardly a boy, Christine was sexually disturbed. 812 00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:23,160 Speaker 1: The story of her later discovery and transformation electrified the world. 813 00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:26,160 Speaker 1: It was the first chapter in a new outlook towards 814 00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:31,280 Speaker 1: the transsexual phenomenon. And yet I can't believe that yours 815 00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:35,400 Speaker 1: was the first operation of this type. It wasn't the 816 00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:38,520 Speaker 1: first one was I think done somewhere in the area 817 00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:41,279 Speaker 1: of nineteen twenty six or twenty seven there was a 818 00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:45,120 Speaker 1: marvelous doctor in Germany called Magnus Hershfeldt who started the 819 00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:49,160 Speaker 1: whole investigation to our in our modern age, let's put 820 00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:51,440 Speaker 1: it that way. Before that, they may have been others, 821 00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:54,080 Speaker 1: but I know not of them. Is this a legal 822 00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:57,640 Speaker 1: operation in the United States? Yet? Oh? Yes, Oh, certainly 823 00:44:57,719 --> 00:44:59,640 Speaker 1: you know they're doing it at Johns Hopkins now in 824 00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:02,040 Speaker 1: bold more happens to be yes, and they're doing at 825 00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:05,680 Speaker 1: the University of Minnesota Medical School, they've done five cases 826 00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:07,960 Speaker 1: to the best of my knowledge, at University of California 827 00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:11,080 Speaker 1: Medical School. How many people and you're a particular predicament 828 00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:12,799 Speaker 1: do you think there are today? I mean, not those 829 00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:16,719 Speaker 1: who have successfully assuming you have successfully bridged the gap, 830 00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:19,279 Speaker 1: but how many were in that spot where they need this? Well, 831 00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:21,719 Speaker 1: I could only judge by what I heard when from 832 00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:24,399 Speaker 1: Johns Hopkins when I was in Baltimore several weeks ago, 833 00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:27,520 Speaker 1: doctor Money and I did a television show together, and 834 00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:30,600 Speaker 1: he's one of the doctors involved in Johns Hopkins and 835 00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:32,640 Speaker 1: he asked me if he if I thought I knew 836 00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:34,560 Speaker 1: how many? And I said, I don't have the vaguest 837 00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:37,920 Speaker 1: idea And he said he according to his statistics, they 838 00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:42,400 Speaker 1: should be thirty thousand transsexuals of both sides in the 839 00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:46,759 Speaker 1: United States. To get it straight, at transsexual and transvestite 840 00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:50,440 Speaker 1: differ in that the transvestite is addressing up type of homosexual. 841 00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:53,239 Speaker 1: And you don't claim to be a homosexual, now I 842 00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:55,359 Speaker 1: should say, you claim you're not a homosexual. Well, an 843 00:45:55,400 --> 00:45:59,040 Speaker 1: interesting point if you say that if I was established 844 00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:02,120 Speaker 1: and accepted by society for the first twenty six years 845 00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:06,000 Speaker 1: of my life as a male. Then my emotional feelings 846 00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:09,120 Speaker 1: during that period toward another male had to be considered 847 00:46:09,560 --> 00:46:13,680 Speaker 1: a homosexual emotion in the eyes of society, although I 848 00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:17,640 Speaker 1: never saw it that way in my own eyes. But again, Joe, 849 00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:21,080 Speaker 1: may I correct something which has been very is very startling. 850 00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:25,280 Speaker 1: I think that a transvest type they have proven statistically 851 00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:29,799 Speaker 1: that of them are hetero sexual. Now this is even 852 00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:32,560 Speaker 1: more interesting than ever in people who men who dress 853 00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:38,200 Speaker 1: up in women's clothing are really, by the world standards normal. Wow. 854 00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:43,319 Speaker 1: So yeah, that's what I expect. It surprising, Yeah, I mean, 855 00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:45,480 Speaker 1: you know he does. He does say heavens to Betsy 856 00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:48,160 Speaker 1: when she's she's talking about the different, but he's like 857 00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:52,400 Speaker 1: the terminology. Again, this is nineteen sixty seven. Yeah, so 858 00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:54,960 Speaker 1: let's say it is like, sure, okay, Joe, like he's 859 00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:57,720 Speaker 1: actually like, okay, what's the proper term? What's the difference? 860 00:46:57,760 --> 00:47:01,840 Speaker 1: That like explained what your experiences all about gendering her properly? 861 00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:09,600 Speaker 1: Be very surprising? Yet wow, yeah, I I didn't. And 862 00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:12,480 Speaker 1: I talked to a transgender friend of mine about this, 863 00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:16,239 Speaker 1: and she did point out that Christine Jorgensen had some 864 00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:18,440 Speaker 1: like kind of pretty anti gay attitudes. And one of 865 00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:19,920 Speaker 1: the things that was going on here, and one of 866 00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:21,840 Speaker 1: the things that made her acceptable is that like she 867 00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:23,680 Speaker 1: was like, well, I'm not going to be like people 868 00:47:23,719 --> 00:47:26,160 Speaker 1: like me won't be homosexual if we get to transition, 869 00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:29,879 Speaker 1: because then it's yeah. And I didn't really catch that 870 00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:32,160 Speaker 1: when I listened to the interview. Um, but I can 871 00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:34,080 Speaker 1: see how that could have been an element here, although 872 00:47:34,239 --> 00:47:37,759 Speaker 1: when he brings up homosexuality, I didn't note anything aggressive 873 00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:39,759 Speaker 1: in it, Like he was just kind of asked for 874 00:47:39,840 --> 00:47:42,440 Speaker 1: clarification about yeah, but not in this. I'm sure he 875 00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:46,080 Speaker 1: I'm sure he was right, yeah, there's way yeah, But 876 00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:49,160 Speaker 1: but so not the interview I would have expected. And 877 00:47:49,160 --> 00:47:51,160 Speaker 1: it it I think it says less about him than 878 00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:53,799 Speaker 1: it just does about how the issue had not been 879 00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:56,720 Speaker 1: politicized at this point, like the existence of transgender people 880 00:47:56,719 --> 00:47:59,120 Speaker 1: had not been politicized to the extent that it is now, 881 00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:04,720 Speaker 1: even though was much more dangerous to consider transitioning back then. Um. 882 00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:07,600 Speaker 1: It also there was not the kind of political um 883 00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:11,520 Speaker 1: rancor behind It's just a fascinating piece of history. Um 884 00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:14,480 Speaker 1: and evidence that like Joe Pine again, you could be 885 00:48:14,520 --> 00:48:17,440 Speaker 1: a right wing firebrand on TV and encounter something you 886 00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:20,720 Speaker 1: didn't understand and like learn about it on air without 887 00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:24,319 Speaker 1: it being a like a thing. Yeah. Do you think 888 00:48:24,360 --> 00:48:28,840 Speaker 1: that's a product of him being like a genuinely curious person, 889 00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:32,719 Speaker 1: like if I want to learn new things, etcetera. Or 890 00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:36,319 Speaker 1: is that more of a product of what you were 891 00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:39,960 Speaker 1: saying about the issue where it wasn't clear which side 892 00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:42,719 Speaker 1: of the political spectrum the issue was going to fall on, 893 00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:45,120 Speaker 1: so he didn't want to go as hard as he 894 00:48:45,160 --> 00:48:48,600 Speaker 1: normally would had the issue been more firmly settled on 895 00:48:48,600 --> 00:48:51,799 Speaker 1: one side. I don't know. I've heard people theorize that 896 00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:54,440 Speaker 1: part of why he was very polite and liked Christine 897 00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:57,319 Speaker 1: Jorgensen is that she was a veteran like him, and 898 00:48:57,320 --> 00:48:59,359 Speaker 1: he had just that kind of like respector like, well, 899 00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:01,040 Speaker 1: whatever else about this person we fought in the same 900 00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:04,040 Speaker 1: war together. I think some of it's also, I think 901 00:49:04,120 --> 00:49:07,560 Speaker 1: the attitude and like the way people presented themselves like 902 00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:10,520 Speaker 1: he was. He was a guy who was raised in 903 00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:13,960 Speaker 1: a specific time where if people present themselves a specific way, 904 00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:15,759 Speaker 1: you treat them a specific way, right, And I think 905 00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:18,719 Speaker 1: people who kind of like Joe Krab or Krastner, you know, 906 00:49:18,760 --> 00:49:21,080 Speaker 1: it's kind of like a left wing hippie type, and 907 00:49:21,120 --> 00:49:23,239 Speaker 1: so he did not feel the need to be respectful. 908 00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:28,360 Speaker 1: Christine like presented as like a very kind of like boogie, 909 00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:31,480 Speaker 1: upper middle class white woman, and he treated her with 910 00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:33,480 Speaker 1: respect as a result. The same was true of some 911 00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:36,000 Speaker 1: other women he interviewed who he had a disagreement with. 912 00:49:36,040 --> 00:49:37,279 Speaker 1: So I think some of it may just be that 913 00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:40,920 Speaker 1: just like there was more of like a well, regardless 914 00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:43,560 Speaker 1: of your feelings, if somebody presents in this way, if 915 00:49:43,600 --> 00:49:46,760 Speaker 1: they if they match kind of our expectations of upper 916 00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:49,720 Speaker 1: class white people behavior, you treat them with a certain 917 00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:54,800 Speaker 1: level of respect and regard because that's just how we are. Um. No, 918 00:49:55,760 --> 00:50:00,359 Speaker 1: it's it's it's a fascinating time, fascinating time capsule. Um. 919 00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:02,520 Speaker 1: And that was I think maybe the longest clip we've 920 00:50:02,520 --> 00:50:04,759 Speaker 1: ever played on this show. But I just I was 921 00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:08,080 Speaker 1: really surprised when I came across that learning this is like, 922 00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:10,439 Speaker 1: this is the guy who gave mental birth to Rush 923 00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:14,840 Speaker 1: Limbaugh and Tucker Carlson. Yeah, not the interview you would expect. 924 00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:18,239 Speaker 1: As a last treat. I have one more thing I 925 00:50:18,280 --> 00:50:20,680 Speaker 1: want to play for you, a segment from Joe Show 926 00:50:20,719 --> 00:50:23,319 Speaker 1: where he talks with Anton LaVey, head of the Church 927 00:50:23,920 --> 00:50:36,919 Speaker 1: by you're gonna have a good time with this one. Popcorn. Yeah, yeah, 928 00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:39,279 Speaker 1: you get Anton LaVey on the TV, and you know 929 00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:42,920 Speaker 1: you're gonna have a good one. And how do you 930 00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:49,720 Speaker 1: make your living as a counselor sorcerer, practicing wizard, shaman, warlock, 931 00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:51,520 Speaker 1: whatever you wish to call it. You're also a man 932 00:50:51,640 --> 00:50:56,120 Speaker 1: which a warlock, well, a male which is considered a warlock, 933 00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:02,239 Speaker 1: a male witch, but not a white witch, not like 934 00:51:02,280 --> 00:51:04,600 Speaker 1: some of these people that have been on various shows 935 00:51:04,640 --> 00:51:07,359 Speaker 1: that bend over backwards trying to convince everyone how good 936 00:51:07,360 --> 00:51:10,080 Speaker 1: they are. They never performed black magic, only white magic. 937 00:51:10,080 --> 00:51:12,080 Speaker 1: I think this is make that man disappear out of 938 00:51:12,080 --> 00:51:14,520 Speaker 1: the dock. Out of the dock. Why should I want to? 939 00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:17,560 Speaker 1: Because we have somebody else coming up. Of course I 940 00:51:17,600 --> 00:51:21,080 Speaker 1: can't make him disappear because I am naturally cast in 941 00:51:21,360 --> 00:51:27,040 Speaker 1: the mold of a human being, and I think less 942 00:51:27,080 --> 00:51:31,400 Speaker 1: human and more meph to me, Thank you, sir, I 943 00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:36,040 Speaker 1: called him a Devil's complimented. It's just remarkable to me. 944 00:51:36,160 --> 00:51:40,239 Speaker 1: But degree the degree to which Anton LaVey looks like 945 00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:44,759 Speaker 1: Joe Kuchin from Command and Conquer, the guy who played Kine, 946 00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:48,520 Speaker 1: they're the same. Maybe Kane was Anton LaVey. That's my 947 00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:53,000 Speaker 1: command and conquer theory. That's gonna be very funny. He doesn't. 948 00:51:53,040 --> 00:51:55,080 Speaker 1: He looks. He looks like the villain in every f 949 00:51:55,280 --> 00:52:00,960 Speaker 1: M V computer game. It's amazing. Where an ambulant. He's 950 00:52:01,000 --> 00:52:03,319 Speaker 1: such a dummy. Every time he goes on TV. It's 951 00:52:03,400 --> 00:52:05,640 Speaker 1: so funny, Like, no, I can't make that guy to 952 00:52:05,719 --> 00:52:13,959 Speaker 1: speak white magic, white magic? Here you doing aunt? Yeah? 953 00:52:14,120 --> 00:52:16,360 Speaker 1: I have to side with Joe on this one. But 954 00:52:16,600 --> 00:52:19,080 Speaker 1: he got a magic here you up to magic? Are 955 00:52:19,120 --> 00:52:26,359 Speaker 1: you gonna do? Yeah. By the late nineteen sixties, Joe 956 00:52:26,440 --> 00:52:28,759 Speaker 1: was a very wealthy man. He drove drove a Rolls 957 00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:30,759 Speaker 1: Royce and when he parked at the studio he was 958 00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:32,880 Speaker 1: so frightened it would be vandalized that he had his 959 00:52:32,920 --> 00:52:35,600 Speaker 1: network higher security guard to watch the car while he 960 00:52:35,680 --> 00:52:38,840 Speaker 1: was on the air, man, what are you doing? Yeah, exactly, 961 00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:42,520 Speaker 1: what are you doing? On paper? In many ways he 962 00:52:42,600 --> 00:52:44,560 Speaker 1: sounded like the same kind of guy that many right 963 00:52:44,560 --> 00:52:47,440 Speaker 1: wing media grifters are today. But the things he the 964 00:52:47,480 --> 00:52:49,759 Speaker 1: thing he had that they all lacked is a sense 965 00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:52,080 Speaker 1: of charm. There's a level of class that you get 966 00:52:52,120 --> 00:52:55,920 Speaker 1: with Joe that just like is completely absent from everyone 967 00:52:55,960 --> 00:52:58,640 Speaker 1: who follows. Yeah, it's it's it's more the more we 968 00:52:58,680 --> 00:53:01,200 Speaker 1: hear of him. I had said he sounds like Cronkite earlier, 969 00:53:01,200 --> 00:53:03,000 Speaker 1: but he really sounds more like like Carson or like 970 00:53:03,040 --> 00:53:04,960 Speaker 1: a talk show most where it's like he can be 971 00:53:06,080 --> 00:53:09,759 Speaker 1: warm and supportive until he's not, and then he'll turn 972 00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:12,799 Speaker 1: on you and kind of ridicule you, but in a 973 00:53:12,880 --> 00:53:15,200 Speaker 1: in a polite way. I can see how a lot 974 00:53:15,239 --> 00:53:18,280 Speaker 1: of people who disagreed profoundly with Joe Pine could enjoy 975 00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:19,920 Speaker 1: listening to his show in a way that like I 976 00:53:19,960 --> 00:53:23,560 Speaker 1: cannot with Tucker Carlson or nobody's like nobody like hate 977 00:53:23,560 --> 00:53:27,200 Speaker 1: watches for enjoyment Tucker Carlson. It's just too like horrifying, 978 00:53:27,239 --> 00:53:29,440 Speaker 1: like nobody does that with Ben Shapiro or whatever. No, 979 00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:31,560 Speaker 1: no, no no, that's an assignment. That's not something that is 980 00:53:31,600 --> 00:53:35,279 Speaker 1: an assignment, that is that is a that is conflict journalism, 981 00:53:35,320 --> 00:53:38,120 Speaker 1: like you are taking on pain. I'm looking at something 982 00:53:38,200 --> 00:53:42,520 Speaker 1: nodding people could like enjoy like you enjoy, Like why 983 00:53:42,719 --> 00:53:46,399 Speaker 1: I recommend watching him talk to Anton LaVey, it's a yeah, 984 00:53:46,520 --> 00:53:52,000 Speaker 1: it's it's it's legitimately fun just to do real ship 985 00:53:52,080 --> 00:53:55,040 Speaker 1: heads just tugging it up in the six daies. At 986 00:53:55,080 --> 00:54:00,000 Speaker 1: one point he had at one point he had Harlane 987 00:54:00,040 --> 00:54:04,800 Speaker 1: listen on as a guest. Now, Harlan Ellison's quite a fellow. 988 00:54:05,400 --> 00:54:08,240 Speaker 1: At the time, he was a Los Angeles Free Press columnist, 989 00:54:08,239 --> 00:54:11,120 Speaker 1: and he's now a legendary dead sci fi author, the 990 00:54:11,160 --> 00:54:13,320 Speaker 1: author if I have no mouth, but I must scream 991 00:54:13,360 --> 00:54:17,080 Speaker 1: and some other. The way you phrase that made it 992 00:54:17,080 --> 00:54:21,200 Speaker 1: sound like he's legendarily dead, he is. He is a 993 00:54:21,200 --> 00:54:24,880 Speaker 1: lot of people. I mean, Harlan Ellison was a famous 994 00:54:24,920 --> 00:54:29,320 Speaker 1: missing throp. He made a lot of enemies and politically 995 00:54:29,440 --> 00:54:31,640 Speaker 1: was pretty much the opposite of Joe Pine, although in 996 00:54:31,719 --> 00:54:35,080 Speaker 1: terms of being unpleasant, they were both very unpleasant people. Famously, 997 00:54:36,560 --> 00:54:39,440 Speaker 1: Harlan Ellison called Joe a hustler and a bully, but 998 00:54:39,560 --> 00:54:42,399 Speaker 1: noted that he was very sharp. Quote. I thought I'd 999 00:54:42,400 --> 00:54:43,960 Speaker 1: go on his show and beat him at his own game, 1000 00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:45,919 Speaker 1: but I blew it. I spent my time talking about 1001 00:54:45,920 --> 00:54:48,040 Speaker 1: the issue civil liberties and all that, and he talked 1002 00:54:48,080 --> 00:54:50,560 Speaker 1: about America. The trouble with Pine was that he was 1003 00:54:50,600 --> 00:54:53,160 Speaker 1: really really good at what he did now, and that 1004 00:54:53,280 --> 00:54:55,480 Speaker 1: that does get to like, yeah, you're ever gonna Win 1005 00:54:55,560 --> 00:54:58,000 Speaker 1: talking about the issues with these guys. That's not and 1006 00:54:58,040 --> 00:55:00,439 Speaker 1: you can only get Joe to listen when it wasn't 1007 00:55:00,520 --> 00:55:02,279 Speaker 1: something he saw as an issue. I think that's why 1008 00:55:02,360 --> 00:55:04,759 Speaker 1: his why that interview with Jorgensen went the way it did, 1009 00:55:04,800 --> 00:55:08,480 Speaker 1: is because it wasn't a political issue to his curiative interest. 1010 00:55:08,560 --> 00:55:11,200 Speaker 1: To me, she was curious, this isn't this isn't real, 1011 00:55:11,320 --> 00:55:14,480 Speaker 1: This is just some flighty nonsense, you know, Yeah, it's 1012 00:55:14,520 --> 00:55:16,520 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't think he was treating it like nonsense. 1013 00:55:16,520 --> 00:55:18,120 Speaker 1: He was treating it like he was just learning a 1014 00:55:18,160 --> 00:55:21,840 Speaker 1: new science. Fate. It wasn't political, it was not. He 1015 00:55:21,920 --> 00:55:24,320 Speaker 1: definitely didn't treat it the same way he was treating 1016 00:55:24,680 --> 00:55:29,600 Speaker 1: um the High Time orient On Levey. But I feel 1017 00:55:29,640 --> 00:55:34,279 Speaker 1: like he probably considered them in the same bucket of like, well, 1018 00:55:34,320 --> 00:55:37,279 Speaker 1: this isn't this is like a personal interest story, this isn't. 1019 00:55:37,960 --> 00:55:40,879 Speaker 1: Definitely in the same idea. He clearly respected her more 1020 00:55:40,920 --> 00:55:42,840 Speaker 1: than he did any either of them, But yes, I 1021 00:55:42,880 --> 00:55:44,480 Speaker 1: think it was the same kind of like, well, this 1022 00:55:44,560 --> 00:55:47,040 Speaker 1: is not a political thing, this is this is personal interest. 1023 00:55:47,120 --> 00:55:49,239 Speaker 1: This is just something that people are going to be 1024 00:55:49,280 --> 00:55:51,799 Speaker 1: fascinated by. That. I can also, like you can you 1025 00:55:51,800 --> 00:55:55,680 Speaker 1: can you can create a kind of like fantastic title 1026 00:55:55,760 --> 00:55:57,600 Speaker 1: for it. You know, it's something that will that will 1027 00:55:57,600 --> 00:56:01,280 Speaker 1: get people get eyeballs on the screen. Um. In nineteen 1028 00:56:01,360 --> 00:56:04,719 Speaker 1: sixty nine, Joe started having trouble breathing. He was diagnosed 1029 00:56:04,719 --> 00:56:07,839 Speaker 1: with with lung cancer. For years, he had jokingly called 1030 00:56:07,880 --> 00:56:10,200 Speaker 1: his cigarettes coffin nails, and you saw him light up 1031 00:56:10,200 --> 00:56:19,480 Speaker 1: at least one. He was always smoken um, your government 1032 00:56:19,480 --> 00:56:23,279 Speaker 1: issue cigarettes. He had repeatedly promised that he would never 1033 00:56:23,320 --> 00:56:26,160 Speaker 1: give up smoking, but he quit after getting his diagnosis. 1034 00:56:26,360 --> 00:56:28,560 Speaker 1: It didn't help when he got too sick to drive 1035 00:56:28,600 --> 00:56:30,959 Speaker 1: to the studio. He hosted his show from his home, 1036 00:56:31,239 --> 00:56:34,920 Speaker 1: making him a trailblazer in yet another way. Yeah, he 1037 00:56:34,960 --> 00:56:40,640 Speaker 1: was the first first to yeah yeah yeah. At the 1038 00:56:40,760 --> 00:56:42,600 Speaker 1: very end of his life, he lay in his bed 1039 00:56:42,719 --> 00:56:44,880 Speaker 1: ranting about the Peace Corps because they wanted to in 1040 00:56:45,000 --> 00:56:48,600 Speaker 1: the war in Vietnam. He died in nineteen seventy at 1041 00:56:48,640 --> 00:56:54,520 Speaker 1: age forty five. Thank you, comrades. Wow, yeah forty five. 1042 00:56:54,719 --> 00:56:59,759 Speaker 1: That dude was forty five. That dude was mainlining cigarettes 1043 00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:02,320 Speaker 1: his tire red life. From the time he was fourteen. 1044 00:57:02,360 --> 00:57:04,959 Speaker 1: He was probably spoken six packs a day. I want 1045 00:57:05,040 --> 00:57:10,120 Speaker 1: the listeners to understand that this motherfucker looks like in 1046 00:57:10,200 --> 00:57:12,600 Speaker 1: these clips we watch, he looks like he's at least 1047 00:57:12,640 --> 00:57:16,400 Speaker 1: sixty eight. Yeah, like he looks so old. I mean, 1048 00:57:16,440 --> 00:57:21,440 Speaker 1: in fairness, some of that's World War two. Yeah, I mean, 1049 00:57:21,480 --> 00:57:24,360 Speaker 1: it's it's like a joke on the Internet where it's like, man, 1050 00:57:24,440 --> 00:57:27,400 Speaker 1: people who were like thirty eight in in nineteen seventy five, 1051 00:57:27,480 --> 00:57:34,520 Speaker 1: it's like they were on door. Um, but like yeah, yeah, yeah, 1052 00:57:34,960 --> 00:57:40,400 Speaker 1: forty five. He's now yeah, younger than Oh, what's the guy, 1053 00:57:40,840 --> 00:57:43,040 Speaker 1: the funny man. All the ladies like him? He's the 1054 00:57:43,040 --> 00:57:46,280 Speaker 1: aunt man. What's his fucking aunt man? Paul Paul, Paul 1055 00:57:46,320 --> 00:57:49,560 Speaker 1: Rud's older than Joe Pine died at Now Paul Read 1056 00:57:49,640 --> 00:57:53,520 Speaker 1: is older than Joe Pine ever was and looks half 1057 00:57:53,800 --> 00:57:56,560 Speaker 1: And when Paul Rudd is seventy, he won't look as 1058 00:57:56,680 --> 00:57:59,520 Speaker 1: old as Joe Pine looked. At this dude looks older 1059 00:57:59,560 --> 00:58:06,880 Speaker 1: than yea um. The Smithsonian magazine lays out how directly 1060 00:58:06,920 --> 00:58:08,840 Speaker 1: his influence led to the creation of some of the 1061 00:58:08,840 --> 00:58:12,400 Speaker 1: most influential careers in modern right wing media. Quote. One 1062 00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:16,160 Speaker 1: of pines protegees, the controversial radio shouter Bob Grant, followed 1063 00:58:16,200 --> 00:58:18,479 Speaker 1: his mentor Pine as a talk show shatter in Los 1064 00:58:18,480 --> 00:58:20,960 Speaker 1: Angeles before moving to New York, where Grant paved the 1065 00:58:21,000 --> 00:58:24,800 Speaker 1: way for his successor at w a BC, Sean Hannity. 1066 00:58:25,280 --> 00:58:28,840 Speaker 1: Hannity had first gained national attention subbing for Rush Limbaugh, 1067 00:58:28,880 --> 00:58:31,640 Speaker 1: another Bob Grant fan. When Grant died in two thousand 1068 00:58:31,640 --> 00:58:34,080 Speaker 1: and thirteen, Hannity hailed him as one of the greatest 1069 00:58:34,080 --> 00:58:37,920 Speaker 1: pioneers of controversial, opinionated talk radio. Grant, in turn, had 1070 00:58:37,960 --> 00:58:40,280 Speaker 1: acknowledged his debt to the founder of in your Face talk. 1071 00:58:40,560 --> 00:58:43,000 Speaker 1: Even Vice President Mike Pence, who hosted a right wing 1072 00:58:43,040 --> 00:58:45,480 Speaker 1: talk show in Indiana in the nineteen nineties, was a 1073 00:58:45,520 --> 00:58:49,240 Speaker 1: successor of Pines. According to Harlan Ellison, who admired pine 1074 00:58:49,320 --> 00:58:52,320 Speaker 1: shrewdness while loathing his politics. I've appeared on that sort 1075 00:58:52,320 --> 00:58:54,680 Speaker 1: of show all over the country. They call it controversy, 1076 00:58:54,720 --> 00:58:57,720 Speaker 1: but they're all about vilification and hostility, and their motto 1077 00:58:58,000 --> 00:59:01,480 Speaker 1: is pot model is Pine. And Pine is again an 1078 00:59:01,480 --> 00:59:03,600 Speaker 1: odd figure for me, because when I first started reading 1079 00:59:03,600 --> 00:59:05,800 Speaker 1: this kind of stuff about him, calling him a bully, 1080 00:59:05,840 --> 00:59:08,600 Speaker 1: I expected a different kind of bully than the video's reveal. 1081 00:59:08,680 --> 00:59:11,400 Speaker 1: He's absolutely a bully, but he's subtler than the ones 1082 00:59:11,440 --> 00:59:14,040 Speaker 1: we see today. I found a column in the Saturday 1083 00:59:14,080 --> 00:59:16,400 Speaker 1: Evening Post from the nineteen sixties where a left wing 1084 00:59:16,400 --> 00:59:20,400 Speaker 1: reviewer tries to explain his appreciation for the Joe Pine show. Quote. 1085 00:59:20,960 --> 00:59:22,960 Speaker 1: After watching one of these shows, and it does not 1086 00:59:23,160 --> 00:59:25,560 Speaker 1: matter whether I loathed the guest, to the host or both, 1087 00:59:25,640 --> 00:59:28,919 Speaker 1: I feel somehow drained and less misanthropic. Not long ago, 1088 00:59:28,960 --> 00:59:31,320 Speaker 1: for example, I had a terrible day. I had a migraine, 1089 00:59:31,320 --> 00:59:33,480 Speaker 1: and my daughter sliced your finger with a razor blade, 1090 00:59:33,480 --> 00:59:35,320 Speaker 1: and I got a rejection slip, and a cop gave 1091 00:59:35,320 --> 00:59:37,720 Speaker 1: me a speeding ticket, my third this year, which means 1092 00:59:37,720 --> 00:59:40,280 Speaker 1: that I will probably lose my license. And in Los Angeles, 1093 00:59:40,280 --> 00:59:43,080 Speaker 1: that is like being a functional paraplegic. That night, I 1094 00:59:43,120 --> 00:59:46,240 Speaker 1: watched Joe Pine. His guests included a lady who complained 1095 00:59:46,240 --> 00:59:49,640 Speaker 1: that television sportscasters never carried drag racing results, a man 1096 00:59:49,680 --> 00:59:52,680 Speaker 1: who blamed the current racial unrest on Franklin Delano Roosevelt, 1097 00:59:52,680 --> 00:59:54,320 Speaker 1: and a veteran who said we ought to drop the 1098 00:59:54,320 --> 00:59:56,800 Speaker 1: big bomb on Vietnam. The vets said he did not 1099 00:59:56,880 --> 00:59:58,840 Speaker 1: fight World War Two. To throw this one away. It 1100 00:59:58,920 --> 01:00:01,160 Speaker 1: turned out that he had been in v mailman. I 1101 01:00:01,280 --> 01:00:03,600 Speaker 1: was outside the zoo looking in again. Life did not 1102 01:00:03,680 --> 01:00:06,640 Speaker 1: seem so bad after all. I went to bed and slept. 1103 01:00:06,680 --> 01:00:10,439 Speaker 1: Well that what's going on in that guy's life? Though? Yeah, 1104 01:00:10,480 --> 01:00:13,520 Speaker 1: that is honest. We had lost his license, his daughter 1105 01:00:13,560 --> 01:00:18,360 Speaker 1: cut Yeah wait, wait, you had access to razor blades. 1106 01:00:18,680 --> 01:00:21,560 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna blades or it was a different time, Tom, 1107 01:00:21,600 --> 01:00:24,479 Speaker 1: I'm sure he was giving her cigarettes to this down. 1108 01:00:25,040 --> 01:00:28,959 Speaker 1: This guy's life was already shaky. Uh for the show 1109 01:00:29,040 --> 01:00:31,680 Speaker 1: Pine show came to the picture. But yeah you can like, Yeah, 1110 01:00:31,960 --> 01:00:34,560 Speaker 1: the the appreciation you could have for Joe Pine if 1111 01:00:34,600 --> 01:00:37,160 Speaker 1: you weren't in the cult part of what makes him 1112 01:00:37,200 --> 01:00:40,360 Speaker 1: different from what came later, and in part to Tom, 1113 01:00:40,480 --> 01:00:42,280 Speaker 1: We're going to talk about what came later, but for 1114 01:00:42,360 --> 01:00:44,400 Speaker 1: right now, we need to talk about the ship. You've 1115 01:00:44,440 --> 01:00:47,720 Speaker 1: got to plose. Oh geez, all right, well um yeah, 1116 01:00:47,760 --> 01:00:50,320 Speaker 1: if you uh, I've got a Patreon, if you ever 1117 01:00:50,520 --> 01:00:53,760 Speaker 1: patreon dot com, slash game employed, you can uh find 1118 01:00:53,920 --> 01:00:56,360 Speaker 1: our podcast net words to me and David bell Um, 1119 01:00:56,760 --> 01:00:59,200 Speaker 1: but also from Cracked. We do a bunch of shows 1120 01:00:59,200 --> 01:01:01,400 Speaker 1: every week. We do. We just watched hype cast. We 1121 01:01:01,480 --> 01:01:04,600 Speaker 1: do Uh Fox Bolder is a maniac. Tom and Jeff 1122 01:01:04,600 --> 01:01:07,000 Speaker 1: Watch Batman, Star Trek, the next few, Durama, a bunch 1123 01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:09,520 Speaker 1: of great shows you can check out there. Um also 1124 01:01:09,760 --> 01:01:12,360 Speaker 1: do writing over at Collider um and for some more 1125 01:01:12,400 --> 01:01:16,600 Speaker 1: news uh and for one night Dred hot Dog. So 1126 01:01:16,640 --> 01:01:18,760 Speaker 1: you can look at all of those things. Check it. 1127 01:01:18,800 --> 01:01:22,840 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, all right, and you can you know, you 1128 01:01:22,840 --> 01:01:30,720 Speaker 1: can go to hell. That's right, go to hell. When 1129 01:01:30,800 --> 01:01:33,080 Speaker 1: you get to hell, tell Joe Pine that Roberts sent it. 1130 01:01:33,800 --> 01:01:38,480 Speaker 1: Tell Joe Pine Robert since you, and then kick him 1131 01:01:38,480 --> 01:01:40,720 Speaker 1: in the nuts and scream the name Rush Limbaugh. He 1132 01:01:40,760 --> 01:01:44,240 Speaker 1: won't know what you're saying. He died decades before that 1133 01:01:44,280 --> 01:01:47,400 Speaker 1: man was relevant. I feel like in the hell they 1134 01:01:47,480 --> 01:01:49,960 Speaker 1: just make you listen to clips of everything. Lives on 1135 01:01:50,000 --> 01:01:52,240 Speaker 1: this episode are repeat. We haven't even gotten to the back. 1136 01:01:53,000 --> 01:01:54,080 Speaker 1: Wait for part two. Yo,