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Speaker 1: This call is from a correction facility, and it's subject

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Speaker 1: to monitoring and recording.

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Speaker 2: I ere and it hasn't been easy.

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Speaker 3: One hundred years.

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Speaker 4: That's man. I'm a kid.

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Speaker 5: I didn't do anything, you know, and uh, you know

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Speaker 5: that was Ah, that was real painful, man, No, because

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Speaker 5: my life was discarded as if you know, like I

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Speaker 5: was a piece of trash or something, you know, one

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Speaker 5: hundred years and I had dreams and I wanted to

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Speaker 5: do things.

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Speaker 4: I wouldn't committing crimes. You know.

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Speaker 5: I was a very good young man.

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Speaker 6: That is what happens in so many cases. The cops

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Speaker 6: have a hunch because they're so smart at the scene,

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Speaker 6: they have a hunch, and once they act on that hunch,

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Speaker 6: they sort of developed tunnel vision and they take off

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Speaker 6: marching in the wrong direction. And that happens in so

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Speaker 6: many of these wrongful convictions.

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Speaker 4: The opening.

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Speaker 1: To sell door and I'll walk down stave and I

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Speaker 1: actually walked downstairs to be outside. It felt very strange

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Speaker 1: to be, like I said, to be walking without no

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Speaker 1: shackles on my feet. I thought it was a dream.

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Speaker 1: But then again it wasn't a dream.

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Speaker 4: This is wrongful conviction. Welcome back to wrongful Conviction. Today's

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Speaker 4: guest is Harold House and that's particularly exciting to me

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Speaker 4: because not only does it mark the first time that

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Speaker 4: we've had an actual movie star TV star who also

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Speaker 4: was wrongfully convicted on the show, but Harold and I

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Speaker 4: have become friends over the last several months, So I'm

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Speaker 4: really excited to have you here. So Harold, welcome to

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Speaker 4: Wrongful Conviction.

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Speaker 3: Thank you for having me.

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Speaker 4: And like I always say, I'm happy you're here, but

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Speaker 4: I'm sorry you're.

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Speaker 3: Here before we start. Man, it's just a really say

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Speaker 3: how much it means to have people like yourself that care,

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Speaker 3: you know. So I'm really grateful for this opportunity in

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Speaker 3: this platform to speak out about my situation.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and this is the first time that you're speaking

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Speaker 4: out publicly about this.

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Speaker 3: It should be my absolute first time ever speaking out

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Speaker 3: about anything in regard to my case publicly.

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Speaker 4: I mean, you were more likely to win a damn

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Speaker 4: Oscar or a Emmy or something than you were to

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Speaker 4: end up in prison at the time that this all

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Speaker 4: came down, and talk about that, because your acting career

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Speaker 4: was taking off before this happened, right, I mean, which

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Speaker 4: is why it must have been such a shock to

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Speaker 4: so many people, everyone that knows you, and not only that,

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Speaker 4: but you're a highly educated guy, more so than myself

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Speaker 4: by far, and you're a person of faith and everything else.

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Speaker 4: That doesn't mean that you couldn't have done something wrong,

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Speaker 4: but it makes it more. It should have been harder

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Speaker 4: for a jury to believe. But anyway, we're going to

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Speaker 4: get into that surreal. But talk about that for a minute.

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Speaker 4: So your career was taken off. What were you doing

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Speaker 4: professionally at the time?

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Speaker 3: Was in a great place career wise? I felt like

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Speaker 3: I had, you know, kind of got to the point

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Speaker 3: where my career was taken off. You know how they

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Speaker 3: say you become an overnight success, But this was the

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Speaker 3: culmination of all the hard work. I was promoting my

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Speaker 3: first lead debut film and Secrets. At the time, we

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Speaker 3: had a multiple city tour. I had just shot the

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Speaker 3: Golden Globe Ammy nominated show Atlanta, where I was guaranteed

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Speaker 3: a season's two series regular. We had just wrapped a

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Speaker 3: Tupac movie I had played doctor Dre and that, you know,

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Speaker 3: a ton of offers were coming in for various projects,

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Speaker 3: film projects, and it was a good time.

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Speaker 2: Man.

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Speaker 3: It was a time where all the work was really

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Speaker 3: starting to pay off.

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Speaker 4: I mean, you were living a dream that millions of

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Speaker 4: everyday Americans have and so many people try. So the facts,

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Speaker 4: I mean of having that rug pulled out from under you,

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Speaker 4: you had a long way to fall. And well, I'm

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Speaker 4: not going to put words out. I'm gonna let you

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Speaker 4: tell this.

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Speaker 3: I was accused of rape at the time by my

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Speaker 3: fifteen year old step daughter.

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Speaker 4: Yes, right, what people think when they hear that word,

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Speaker 4: people are thinking, wait, whoa what? But in this situation,

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Speaker 4: you were set up.

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Speaker 3: It felt like it set up to some except at

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Speaker 3: the time me and my son mother was going through

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Speaker 3: kind of a mild separation because of disciplinary issues I

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Speaker 3: was having at the time with my stepdaughter. There was

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Speaker 3: one incident prior to where I had to kind of

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Speaker 3: like discipline her for like cussing at me and being

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Speaker 3: you know, very you know, belligerent and stuff like that.

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Speaker 3: And so she went to her father's house and even

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Speaker 3: when the incident happened, I called him and said she

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Speaker 3: was cussing, being extremely you know, belligerent, volatile and physical

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Speaker 3: and stuff like that. And it was more a comment

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Speaker 3: like who you're talking to while you've been disrespectful type thing,

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Speaker 3: and that's kind of where all of it started to,

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Speaker 3: where you know, he had at that time went to

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Speaker 3: the police and said I was beating her and choking

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Speaker 3: her and throwing her and all these you know, crazy accusations,

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Speaker 3: all this co the physical conduct, me biting her on

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Speaker 3: her neck. And it was actually police report where they

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Speaker 3: took the young lady away from her father and she

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Speaker 3: admitted that, you know, she had been talking back and

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Speaker 3: that she had got in trouble and that she had

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Speaker 3: caught her father to come and get her because she

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Speaker 3: knew she was gonna be on punishment, and that the

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Speaker 3: officer in the police report said, I took away from

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Speaker 3: her father and told that Lion was against the law

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Speaker 3: and I was here to help and only way I

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Speaker 3: can do that if you be honest. And she said,

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Speaker 3: like I said, I knew I was gonna be in trouble.

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Speaker 3: And she's asked her has she had any other further

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Speaker 3: issues with More at the time.

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Speaker 4: So this is a report from the Gwennett County Police

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Speaker 4: Department says at the conclusion of the interview, I asked

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Speaker 4: the victim multiple times if there were any other problems

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Speaker 4: she may be having with More, meaning you Harold house Moore.

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Speaker 4: She never mentioned more touching her in an appropriate manner,

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Speaker 4: or that he had been biting her on the neck,

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Speaker 4: So that would directly contradict.

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Speaker 3: The allegation from the father, who the reason why going

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Speaker 3: to the setup he made all these false accusations against me.

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Speaker 3: I guess the separators. I don't know what ultimate agenda was,

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Speaker 3: but I guess for us to separate or be back

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Speaker 3: with my son's mom are just envy. But all the charge,

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Speaker 3: the accusations of this physicality, the sexual stuff, all started

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Speaker 3: from her father.

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Speaker 4: It's a very devastating accusation. And we know that once

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Speaker 4: those meals are set in motion, it's sometimes hard to

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Speaker 4: put him back on the car of the train because

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Speaker 4: people get caught up in these lies and then they

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Speaker 4: don't know when to stop and it becomes a very

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Speaker 4: real problem.

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Speaker 3: I think in my case, where it wasn't just a lie,

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Speaker 3: it was the fact that as a child, you wouldn't

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Speaker 3: want your father to appear as a liar. And maybe

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Speaker 3: she feared because he had a criminal history. You know,

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Speaker 3: he had been in prison multiple times. He was known

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Speaker 3: for doing I legal stuff. So I don't know if

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Speaker 3: she felt because at the point they told her like,

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Speaker 3: lying is against the law. So now if you go

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Speaker 3: back and tell the truth, your father's a liar. And

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Speaker 3: at the same time, he was constantly her with financial stuff,

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Speaker 3: you know, from purses to cars. I mean, I believe

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Speaker 3: before it took us three and a half years to

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Speaker 3: go to trial, I think she had four new vehicles

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Speaker 3: before we want to trial. I mean cars that was

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Speaker 3: newer than mine.

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Speaker 4: And I was on television and your case is terrifying

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Speaker 4: because it's something that could have happened to anybody. And

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Speaker 4: that's why I think it's so important that you're here. Well,

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Speaker 4: let's go back to that.

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Speaker 3: So my story real quick in the nutshell was that,

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Speaker 3: you know, we had like an incident, the early incident

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Speaker 3: I told you about it, cussing and talking back. That

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Speaker 3: was in February. So between February and all the way

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Speaker 3: to November, we barely had any inn action. When I

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Speaker 3: would come home and see my child, like we would

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Speaker 3: speak like hey, we was always cordially respectful, but there

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Speaker 3: was kind of like something like hitting tensions. So on Thanksgiving,

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Speaker 3: her mom was like, hey, you should come here for Thanksgiving,

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Speaker 3: you know, not be alone for Thanksgiving. In California, I

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Speaker 3: was like, no, I'm cool. I'm gonna just stay. She's like, look,

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Speaker 3: come and spend time with your son. You know she's

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Speaker 3: doing good. Her attitude change, her demeanors change. You know,

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Speaker 3: she's helping out with our sons, she's doing better at school,

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Speaker 3: blah blah blah blah. So I'm like, all right, boom,

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Speaker 3: I get on the plane. Fly in. That day, on

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Speaker 3: the night that she made the accusation was the night

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Speaker 3: that I took her and her sisters to the movies.

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Speaker 3: So after returning from the movies, they remained downstairs, the

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Speaker 3: two girls next door that were twins that went to

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Speaker 3: the movies with her sister while my stepdaughter went with

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Speaker 3: her boyfriend. So after returning to the house, I left

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Speaker 3: them all downstairs talking, having girl talk or what have you,

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Speaker 3: and I went upstairs and I actually dozed off in

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Speaker 3: my son's room. I played golf that day, so I

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Speaker 3: ended up waking up around about two o'clock in the

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Speaker 3: morning because I still had my golf clothes on from earlier.

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Speaker 3: So at that time I went to go use the

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Speaker 3: bathroom that my son shared with his sisters. Two in

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Speaker 3: the morning, my stepdaughter was on the phone and even

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Speaker 3: at that point. Then I said, hey, it's kind of late,

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Speaker 3: and just left it at that. So I goes downstairs

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Speaker 3: to get ready to get in shower in the master bedroom.

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Speaker 3: Come back upstairs. I'm getting some of my clothes that

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Speaker 3: was in my son's room because, like I said, me

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Speaker 3: and my mom had separated, and so I was like

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Speaker 3: sleep upstairs with my son in his room. The way

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Speaker 3: it set up, it's just like this was her room

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Speaker 3: bath from her sister. You can touch all everybody's rooms

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Speaker 3: right here. You can touch everything. And when I came

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Speaker 3: back upstairs, I her her still on the phone. So

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Speaker 3: I yelled in the hall with like, hey, it's getting late.

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Speaker 3: You need to get off the phone. And even in court,

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Speaker 3: she said he was calling my name. I just ignored him.

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Speaker 3: So I walk in the room calling her name. She's

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Speaker 3: not answering. So I tapped the bottom of the lake

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Speaker 3: and she's fully covered under the cover, like fully covered.

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Speaker 4: She had the blankets on it, right, So you touch

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Speaker 4: her on the top of the blanket like hey, like

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Speaker 4: kind of hey, like you went through to make somebody up.

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Speaker 4: So you literally touched a blanket that was covering her.

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Speaker 3: It was and it was like near the shen or

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Speaker 3: the ankle. It wasn't. She said, I like rubbed on

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Speaker 3: the inside of her thigh. That was in a police report,

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Speaker 3: and then the court she says something totally different. So

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Speaker 3: all of it was constantly contradicting each other. So I'm like,

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Speaker 3: you know, calling her name, and she doesn't me spine,

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Speaker 3: so tap her. Look, I said, hey, you know, I

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Speaker 3: say her name. Take a step toward her head of

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Speaker 3: the bed where she was at. She turns and she's

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Speaker 3: on the phone, and the phone says love like two hours, fifteen,

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Speaker 3: twenty minutes. So I'm like, hey, man, it's getting late.

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Speaker 3: You need to get off the phone. She say, oh, okay,

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Speaker 3: walk out the room. And then too, when I walked

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Speaker 3: out the room, I text you, and I had to

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Speaker 3: text to prove she responded, I said your night. I

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Speaker 3: was getting late. You need to get off the phone,

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Speaker 3: and she responded okay. Next then you know, the neighbor

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Speaker 3: come knocking on the door. She screams her name. She

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Speaker 3: just runs out the house. She never looks at me,

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Speaker 3: never says nothing. So I goes and tell her mom, like, hey,

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Speaker 3: you need to go check on her. She just, you know,

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Speaker 3: ran out the house. She's on the phone with her boyfriend.

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Speaker 3: I think he dumped her or she might be pregnant.

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Speaker 3: I told her mor I was like, she had been

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Speaker 3: kind of being busy, and you know, we knew that

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Speaker 3: she was, you know, maybe sneaking around doing little sneaky stuff.

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Speaker 3: So my initial thought process was like, she pregnant. And

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Speaker 3: so when I want to got her mom, her mom

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Speaker 3: goes next door. I'm lay in the bed with my son.

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Speaker 3: So like fifteen minutes go by and I look outside.

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Speaker 3: I see like a whole lot of police cars. So

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Speaker 3: I'm like, oh, what done happened? So I get dressed,

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Speaker 3: get my son dressed, I go next door. I'm not

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Speaker 3: gonna door. The police come like who are you? I say,

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Speaker 3: my name's house. I'm coming to check on my family.

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Speaker 3: They just came over here. I'm trying to see what's

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Speaker 3: going on, you know, everything okay at this timet, I

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Speaker 3: don't know who was it? The girl's next door. Has

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Speaker 3: something happen, something happened anywhere? They was like, oh, we

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Speaker 3: need to talk to you. So I was like, talk

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Speaker 3: to me for what. I'm trying to find answers, just

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Speaker 3: like y'all. They was like, well, can we talk to

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Speaker 3: you next door, and I was like, don't what can

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Speaker 3: you talk to me about? I don't know. I'm trying

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Speaker 3: to figure out what's going on. And so they came

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Speaker 3: to the house and they was like looking around, and

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Speaker 3: he was like, what happened to night to her? And

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Speaker 3: I was like, what happened when? What are you talking about?

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Speaker 3: And I felt like, like, why are you questioning me

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Speaker 3: about what happened about tonight? Whatever? And so eventually he

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Speaker 3: ended up saying what she said, call the police house

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Speaker 3: to try to rape me. So at that point I

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Speaker 3: I snapped. I was like, yo, man, go get her,

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Speaker 3: Go get her mom. I'm not about to do this shit.

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Speaker 3: Go get all them. Blah blah blah blah. Then my

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Speaker 3: son mom comes walking in with the police with her.

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Speaker 3: I was like, what's going on with me? She was like,

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Speaker 3: I don't know, I don't know. I like, see, this

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Speaker 3: is that shit. This is why I don't want to

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Speaker 3: come here, Like I don't have time for the drama

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Speaker 3: because when I separated, when we started separating February, I

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Speaker 3: don't have time to be interacting. I got too much

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Speaker 3: going on to be interacting with, you know, your daughter

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Speaker 3: and your ex husband and drama. You see what I'm saying.

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Speaker 3: So my whole reason for even going back to California

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Speaker 3: when we separated was to avoid the drama. You see

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Speaker 3: what I'm saying. So it's like, how do I get

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Speaker 3: back in this shit when I'm trying to avoid drama?

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Speaker 3: So anyway, long story short, my initial charge they said

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Speaker 3: I tried to rape her because I tapped her on

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Speaker 3: her leg, like where you can do a DNA test,

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Speaker 3: Like where is any physical Then the thing that made

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Speaker 3: me frustrated was because you see this girl, you don't

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Speaker 3: see nothing physically done to her. You don't see nothing,

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Speaker 3: no physical mark, Like what in your mind makes you

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Speaker 3: think that I just try to rape her? You can

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Speaker 3: look at her. And then another thing that and i'ma

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Speaker 3: just wrap it up, was that she said I tried

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Speaker 3: to rape her. I was in charge with rape, so

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Speaker 3: it's like, how was I not charged to rape? So

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Speaker 3: then in Georgia they have this thing where if you

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Speaker 3: touch somebody with attempt to arouse yourself, I'm like, how

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Speaker 3: did I get aroused from touching her leg? Where is

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Speaker 3: in the where's the indication that you was aroused? And

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Speaker 3: they was like, oh, did he say something to no,

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Speaker 3: I didn't say nothing to you remotely close to anything

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Speaker 3: sexual where but in Georgia. That's why I feel like

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Speaker 3: it was a setup, because you didn't even charge me

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Speaker 3: what she lied with. You put in charge me with

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Speaker 3: something you can get me convicted on. There was never

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Speaker 3: an investigation for rape. Anytime a minor makes any type

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Speaker 3: of outcry some type of rape, even if she recann it, legally,

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Speaker 3: you're supposed to report that to the child authorities, which

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Speaker 3: never happened. You're supposed to do a DNA test, which

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Speaker 3: never happens. So the thing would be for you guys

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Speaker 3: to do the test, but they never did the test.

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Speaker 3: Because at the time she would sleep with her eighteen

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Speaker 3: year old boyfriend, which is statutory.

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Speaker 4: Rape because she was fourteen, she was fifteen.

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Speaker 3: Her boyfriend was eighteen at the time, who you see

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Speaker 3: in this picture. So even if she would have said

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Speaker 3: this and took it back, Whosa said, she's not lying

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Speaker 3: out of fear, and even during trial that's what I

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Speaker 3: was saying. There was discipline and structure set up at

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Speaker 3: my house, and you can see from this photo these

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Speaker 3: were the things that were allowed at her father house.

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Speaker 3: You know where she's acknowledging doing drugs, she's drinking, she's

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Speaker 3: posting stuff about you know all, you know, various things

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Speaker 3: that indicate the freedoms that she would have in her

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00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:16,200
Speaker 3: father's house as opposed to mine. I believe it was

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Speaker 3: just rewarded behavior for continuing to support the allegations in

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Speaker 3: the lives that he made up.

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Speaker 4: And you can hear these papers shuffling around, but just

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Speaker 4: can't see it. But the pictures that he's sharing, you know,

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Speaker 4: are pictures of a young girl who is sort of

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Speaker 4: almost looks like she's living the life of a hip

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Speaker 4: hop star for Instagram or something like that, you know.

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Speaker 4: So okay, so she was the painting a picture. She

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Speaker 4: was able to live a life that she wanted to live,

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Speaker 4: a you know, sort of unstructured, flamboyant life, so to speak, at.

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Speaker 3: The expense of staying with her father versus a household

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Speaker 3: of structure. And I think a lot of time, when

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Speaker 3: you deal with the addition of the step father or

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Speaker 3: step mother, but primarily the step father, there's this disconnect

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Speaker 3: between him and the children. And in our case, that

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Speaker 3: wasn't it. Like even when I was working here from

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Speaker 3: NYC twenty two, my stepdaughters came up here with their mom.

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Speaker 3: We went on multiple family trips. I was almost blindsided

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Speaker 3: because I love this child as my own, and that

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Speaker 3: was the hardest part for me to accept to care

336
00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:21,080
Speaker 3: about somebody and you know, look at her as my own,

337
00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:23,200
Speaker 3: especially like in my position. I had heard so many

338
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Speaker 3: times where you know, people recommend you don't even date

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Speaker 3: a woman with children, And for me, I'm not the

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00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:29,800
Speaker 3: type of person to allow people to dictate what I

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Speaker 3: want to do with my life. I met their mom.

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Speaker 3: We had great chemistry. I loved her. You know, I

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Speaker 3: still love her. We still have a great relationship to

344
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Speaker 3: this day as you see we talk. You know today

345
00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:40,640
Speaker 3: she just called while we were sitting on the area,

346
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Speaker 3: So we have a great relationship. My son mom was

347
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Speaker 3: actually my co defendant, her sister, who's her best friend.

348
00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:51,440
Speaker 3: She also testified and said on the record in my transcript,

349
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Speaker 3: my sister's telling a lie. No one believes her. Her

350
00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:58,560
Speaker 3: stories kept changing, and it's in the transcripts. I understood

351
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Speaker 3: very little about the law prior to They never read

352
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Speaker 3: my Miranda rights. I was falseter arrested at my house

353
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Speaker 3: without probable calls the night that she lied. You know,

354
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Speaker 3: and they say, oh, we wanted to take it down

355
00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:12,560
Speaker 3: and speak to the investigators. And I was like, well

356
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Speaker 3: i'll drive. Oh no, we'll drive you and you put

357
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Speaker 3: me in handcuffs. I said, I said, Monday arrest. I

358
00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:19,520
Speaker 3: ain't talked to my attorney, and they said, oh, no, no,

359
00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:22,000
Speaker 3: you're not an arrest. But she had already arrested me,

360
00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:24,920
Speaker 3: So that is an arrest without probable calls. So then

361
00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:26,880
Speaker 3: you violated my Fourth Amendment because you arrest me in

362
00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:29,480
Speaker 3: my house without probable cause or warrant. And then I

363
00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:32,960
Speaker 3: went down to the police station and it was crazy

364
00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:36,400
Speaker 3: because my manager told me, he's like, house, don't say nothing.

365
00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:38,520
Speaker 3: I was like, his name Anthony. I was like Antheony.

366
00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:40,120
Speaker 3: I didn't do nothing. Why would I, you know, I

367
00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:42,760
Speaker 3: said people, And I was like, black people shouldn't be

368
00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:45,440
Speaker 3: afraid of the law. You know, I'm paying taxes, a

369
00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:48,600
Speaker 3: shitload of taxes at this time. So I felt like, look,

370
00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:52,720
Speaker 3: these people are hired for public safety reassurance. And I

371
00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:55,960
Speaker 3: was confident, like and even speaking to the detective. And

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00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:58,160
Speaker 3: so that night my manager said, your house, don't speak

373
00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:00,480
Speaker 3: to nobody, don't ever say nothing. And you hear it

374
00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:01,840
Speaker 3: all the time. I'll ever talk to the police. But

375
00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:04,040
Speaker 3: I'm like, I'm not afraid of police. I'm not afraid

376
00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:07,280
Speaker 3: of the circumstance, ar the situation. So I spoke and

377
00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:09,639
Speaker 3: I got arrested that night. Damn. So I'll say that

378
00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:11,680
Speaker 3: right now in your podet. I don't care how innocent

379
00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:14,480
Speaker 3: you are. And even after speaking to lawyers, more innocent

380
00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:18,560
Speaker 3: people go to prison because of speaking. Whatever you can

381
00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:20,760
Speaker 3: they will use against your court. You can say I

382
00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:23,680
Speaker 3: love God and they gonna say you obsessed with God

383
00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:26,400
Speaker 3: and God made you do some crazy stuff. Prosecutor job

384
00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:27,200
Speaker 3: is to prosecute.

385
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Speaker 4: Yep, God made you go push that old lady. Also

386
00:17:29,359 --> 00:17:32,119
Speaker 4: cliff in a wheelchair and throwing crutches down after you

387
00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:34,080
Speaker 4: know what I mean. So yeah, and that's something I

388
00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:36,040
Speaker 4: talk about in the podcast a lot is that if

389
00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:38,320
Speaker 4: you do get picked up under these type of circumstances,

390
00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:40,480
Speaker 4: don't say nothing. They say your name, and I want

391
00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:40,919
Speaker 4: a lawyer.

392
00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:41,600
Speaker 3: I want a lawyer.

393
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Speaker 4: So you end up going to trial.

394
00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:47,080
Speaker 3: Here you go see one of my documents and I'll

395
00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:49,120
Speaker 3: even let you just read the first sentence. And that's

396
00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:52,119
Speaker 3: the email that my trial attorney sent to my family

397
00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:54,240
Speaker 3: immediately following my trial. And if you could just read

398
00:17:54,280 --> 00:17:57,040
Speaker 3: the first sentence out loud from the email.

399
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Speaker 4: Okay, so this is privilege and confidentially from your attorney. Know,

400
00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:04,600
Speaker 4: leave his name out of it unless you tell me differently.

401
00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:09,400
Speaker 4: And the email says, this was the most horribly biased

402
00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:11,359
Speaker 4: corrupt trial you can ever imagine.

403
00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:15,320
Speaker 3: I mean, you can just stop there. Yeah, that in itself,

404
00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:18,280
Speaker 3: I think speaks volume for the tone of my conviction.

405
00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:23,120
Speaker 4: It sounds like it was. It was a pretty big mess.

406
00:18:23,520 --> 00:18:26,760
Speaker 4: I mean, but what was your experience of that situation.

407
00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:28,600
Speaker 4: I mean, here you are, three and a half years

408
00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:31,119
Speaker 4: have gone by, presumably you've gone on with your career,

409
00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:34,479
Speaker 4: hoping to put this in the rearview mirror, and then

410
00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:37,360
Speaker 4: the day comes and you go to trial, and then

411
00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:39,600
Speaker 4: what's the paint that picture?

412
00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:41,840
Speaker 3: Well, up until, like I said, at the time, I

413
00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:43,920
Speaker 3: was promoting my movie and I had like a lot

414
00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:46,199
Speaker 3: of friends and you know, relationships with you know, so

415
00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:48,280
Speaker 3: many people, and everybody was like, well, house, why do

416
00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:52,320
Speaker 3: you say something. I honestly felt like the truth would prevail,

417
00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:55,080
Speaker 3: And so I was never like even family and friends

418
00:18:55,359 --> 00:18:57,440
Speaker 3: that were close to me, and it was like everybody,

419
00:18:57,480 --> 00:18:59,320
Speaker 3: even my father in my rick, was like how you're

420
00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:02,679
Speaker 3: really calm, are you know? Everybody's was wondering was I

421
00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:04,960
Speaker 3: taking it too light? And I was like, no, you

422
00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:07,480
Speaker 3: can't make me. And this was always Jason has always

423
00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:09,800
Speaker 3: been my mentality. You can't make me guilty of something

424
00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:12,119
Speaker 3: I didn't do. And so on my mind going to trials,

425
00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:16,000
Speaker 3: think there's no way twelve logical people, with all the

426
00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:20,719
Speaker 3: evidence and documentation will find me guilty. But then now

427
00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:23,320
Speaker 3: if you take away all of the evidence, all of

428
00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:26,080
Speaker 3: the character evidence, all of the character witnesses, you take

429
00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:29,200
Speaker 3: away everything, clean the table off. Now it's an emotional case.

430
00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:32,680
Speaker 3: So now you have this young child in the midst

431
00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:36,040
Speaker 3: of you know, the Bill Cosby situation, and why all

432
00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:39,080
Speaker 3: this situation where you have these public figures taking advantage

433
00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:42,720
Speaker 3: of women, and this is like the almost the pinnacle,

434
00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:47,440
Speaker 3: and you know, you know, emotionally, societally, we were feeling

435
00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:50,280
Speaker 3: a lot of compassion and simpathy towards any woman who

436
00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:53,000
Speaker 3: made this type of outcry, regardless of it was true

437
00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:55,480
Speaker 3: or not. It was just the tone of our nation

438
00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:57,920
Speaker 3: almost at that time. And so you go into a

439
00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:02,560
Speaker 3: courtnor where you take away every single thing, every piece

440
00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:05,560
Speaker 3: of paper, evidence, witness that can prove your innocence and

441
00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:07,080
Speaker 3: now you have an emotional.

442
00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:10,080
Speaker 4: Case, and why was this stuff not allowed into evidence?

443
00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:16,200
Speaker 3: The judge and the prosecutor suppressed And I have the

444
00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:20,240
Speaker 3: suppressions letter here where they intentionally put it on record

445
00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:24,120
Speaker 3: to remove anything remotely that would do anything that would

446
00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:29,560
Speaker 3: almost dampen her character or show to me motive if

447
00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:32,840
Speaker 3: you take out the fact that she's allowed to drink, smoke,

448
00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:36,120
Speaker 3: be around her boyfriend, her boyfriend spend a night even

449
00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:40,520
Speaker 3: in the record on court the father committed perjury because

450
00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:42,440
Speaker 3: they asked them, do you allow your daughter to spend

451
00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:44,959
Speaker 3: a night and have company? So, like I'm saying, when

452
00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:50,280
Speaker 3: there's evidence to prove your innocence, and it's not allowed intentionally,

453
00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:52,879
Speaker 3: and you see that one of the motions to suppress it,

454
00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:54,760
Speaker 3: and it's another it's to motions.

455
00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:59,480
Speaker 4: I'm sitting here looking at this document from the Superior

456
00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:03,160
Speaker 4: Court of Gwinnett where they in fact did exactly what

457
00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:07,840
Speaker 4: you said. But this allowed any testimony says, including but

458
00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:10,160
Speaker 4: not limited the references of alcohol and drug use by

459
00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:14,240
Speaker 4: her skipping school, allegations of domestic violence between her and

460
00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:14,720
Speaker 4: I guess.

461
00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:17,119
Speaker 3: Is that her dad, ye who had a history of

462
00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:20,399
Speaker 3: abuse against her mom and they even had used HERKI

463
00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:25,160
Speaker 3: studio interrogation video in mine. Mysteriously, the this didn't work,

464
00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:26,960
Speaker 3: so the jury never seen my.

465
00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:29,360
Speaker 4: Side of that night of your interrogation.

466
00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:30,159
Speaker 3: Vient never seen it.

467
00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:33,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, it looks like it was almost a faded complete

468
00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:35,439
Speaker 4: I hate to say it. You went through this trial,

469
00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:38,199
Speaker 4: you knew that they had disallowed a lot of the

470
00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:41,560
Speaker 4: evidence that would have almost certainly led to your aquitto.

471
00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:43,440
Speaker 4: You still thought you were going to be acquitted, even

472
00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:46,040
Speaker 4: though you hadn't been allowed to present evidence that was

473
00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:47,640
Speaker 4: so favorable to your defense.

474
00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:49,960
Speaker 3: Because there were still things she said on stand that

475
00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:53,399
Speaker 3: contradicted the truth. And then I actually took the stand

476
00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:56,840
Speaker 3: and everything I said was genuine, It was the truth.

477
00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:00,320
Speaker 3: I recorrected a lot of things that she said, but

478
00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:02,840
Speaker 3: they didn't know the truth. So it still became an

479
00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:03,640
Speaker 3: emotional thing.

480
00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:07,160
Speaker 4: So you were you were done. It was at that point.

481
00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:09,280
Speaker 4: Really all you're doing is saying I didn't do it,

482
00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:12,160
Speaker 4: that's it, and the jury is sitting there going, well, oh,

483
00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:13,280
Speaker 4: I mean you know.

484
00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:17,359
Speaker 3: And another thing that happened was the prosecutor, in his

485
00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:19,920
Speaker 3: old mistakements, say look he has all this, he has

486
00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:21,840
Speaker 3: all he's a great man. He has a non profit.

487
00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:24,480
Speaker 3: He's doing this stuff for HBCU. He has this amazing career.

488
00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:28,080
Speaker 3: Everyone thinks he's perfect. And he kept like attacking my character.

489
00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:30,520
Speaker 3: At one point, he was even referencing my character on

490
00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:32,399
Speaker 3: Single Ladies, like what did he do for a living?

491
00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:35,440
Speaker 3: What kind of job did Terrence have on Single Ladies?

492
00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:37,560
Speaker 3: I'm like, what do Single Ladies have to do with

493
00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:38,000
Speaker 3: this case?

494
00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:39,840
Speaker 4: So he's attacking your fictitious character.

495
00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:42,640
Speaker 3: He attacked anything fictationous that he can attack, he attacked.

496
00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:45,120
Speaker 3: He's like, what does Terrence Frank do for a living?

497
00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:47,399
Speaker 3: I was like, man, do you think Robert Donnie Junior

498
00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:50,240
Speaker 3: leaves Iron Man and think he can fly? It's a profession.

499
00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:53,760
Speaker 3: Nobody leaves set and think they're that person. I couldn't

500
00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:56,880
Speaker 3: say nothing, you know, anything rebuttally close to anything other

501
00:22:56,920 --> 00:22:59,080
Speaker 3: than what they want you to say. And they tell

502
00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:00,720
Speaker 3: you they asked you a question. Is like that sets

503
00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:03,359
Speaker 3: you up to fail. I mean that's the only thing

504
00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:05,280
Speaker 3: they had. That's the only thing they referenced to, like

505
00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:08,520
Speaker 3: what I do on Single Ladies and some other character

506
00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:09,960
Speaker 3: what did he do for a living? Like the two

507
00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:13,919
Speaker 3: characters that were like somewhat urban two or three. It's like, oh,

508
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:16,359
Speaker 3: he did music videos and print jab. He just was

509
00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:18,040
Speaker 3: just trying to present it to the jury like I

510
00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:21,560
Speaker 3: thought I was above the law because I was successful,

511
00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:24,879
Speaker 3: or because I was you know, an entertainer or an actor.

512
00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:28,119
Speaker 3: And his closing statements, because you know, it goes to

513
00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:32,440
Speaker 3: prosecutor defense, then prosecutor. When he said he wants y'all

514
00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:35,800
Speaker 3: to believe that he's such a disciplinarian that you know,

515
00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:38,640
Speaker 3: the father just so lenient that she can go over

516
00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:41,520
Speaker 3: there and just do whatever, and she wants that she

517
00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:45,119
Speaker 3: can't do to his house, that she would make up accusations. Well,

518
00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:47,480
Speaker 3: he has all this going on, he said, but the

519
00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:54,280
Speaker 3: one thing that simply fails logic, where's the proof saying

520
00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:56,560
Speaker 3: that if what proof do you have that she can

521
00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:58,920
Speaker 3: do all these things at her father house versus your house?

522
00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:01,280
Speaker 4: Right, So what he was referencing was the evidence that

523
00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:03,840
Speaker 4: he knew wouldn't be allowed in and he was actually

524
00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:06,640
Speaker 4: turning that into a negative. I mean the record, Yeah,

525
00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:08,280
Speaker 4: that's pretty And.

526
00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:10,240
Speaker 3: When he said that, I was like, and I still

527
00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:14,000
Speaker 3: had hope, because again, when you're innocent, it just never

528
00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:15,879
Speaker 3: resonated me going to prison. I had done everything at

529
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:18,280
Speaker 3: that point in my life to not go to prison.

530
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:22,359
Speaker 3: I had did everything I can degrees, educations, speaking out organizations,

531
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:25,320
Speaker 3: having my own nonprofit where you know, even a young

532
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:28,600
Speaker 3: lady who had survived cancer and all that stuff at Montgomery, Alabama,

533
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:31,920
Speaker 3: who I took to the prom She came down to testify.

534
00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:35,080
Speaker 3: Like I had a courtroom for the people and witnesses.

535
00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:38,520
Speaker 3: All of their testimony was limited to how long do

536
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:40,280
Speaker 3: you know him, do you trust them? Tell the truth?

537
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:43,080
Speaker 3: And does he have good community standings? That was it.

538
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:44,640
Speaker 3: That was all they were allowed to say. They weren't

539
00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:47,840
Speaker 3: able to say nothing. Far as my character interaction with

540
00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:50,920
Speaker 3: the kids, I never I'm talking about when not saying,

541
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:54,199
Speaker 3: absolutely never resonated. I guess I was naive. I was

542
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:56,840
Speaker 3: in time promoting my movie. My kids were sitting in

543
00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:57,440
Speaker 3: a rental car.

544
00:24:57,920 --> 00:24:59,520
Speaker 4: Wait wait wait, the kids are sitting in rental car.

545
00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:00,800
Speaker 4: Where outside the courthouse?

546
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:01,040
Speaker 2: Yeah?

547
00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:03,920
Speaker 3: My son mom was in the car with them. Okay, yeah,

548
00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:05,919
Speaker 3: so they were sitting in the rental car and my

549
00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:07,359
Speaker 3: son mom was right next to her. They were like

550
00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:09,919
Speaker 3: playing on their iPads, you know, watching them play in

551
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:12,159
Speaker 3: the car waiting for me. They got the verdict, so

552
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:15,760
Speaker 3: I'm thinking I'm about to walk in, not guilty, Go celebrate.

553
00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:17,640
Speaker 3: It's been three and a half years. I think I'm

554
00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:20,360
Speaker 3: just walking and walk back out. I had just brought

555
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:22,880
Speaker 3: like lately in their season passes. My kids were sitting

556
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:25,159
Speaker 3: in the car with swim trunks on, and I was like, hey,

557
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:26,679
Speaker 3: I'll be right back. Let me go in here and

558
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:30,280
Speaker 3: get this handled, this situation. I never came back out

559
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:31,080
Speaker 3: for two years.

560
00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:44,840
Speaker 4: So you went to prison and was it a medium

561
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:46,000
Speaker 4: maximum security prison?

562
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:47,760
Speaker 3: Medium security prison?

563
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:51,000
Speaker 4: And it was it as bad as it sounds as.

564
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:53,760
Speaker 3: It was bad. I went to a private prison and

565
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:56,400
Speaker 3: down in the South, when you go to certain prison,

566
00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:59,440
Speaker 3: they say you caught sweet because it's not as volatile,

567
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:02,040
Speaker 3: it's not as violent, but there was just as much violence.

568
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:05,560
Speaker 3: There was just as much drug. Man, there's more drug

569
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:08,280
Speaker 3: per quantity in prison than it is on the street.

570
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:11,320
Speaker 3: Like there was no drug that you couldn't get access to,

571
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:16,639
Speaker 3: whether it's weed, meth, cocaine, heroin, spice. So you know

572
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:18,960
Speaker 3: that's the frustrating part. As somebody who pays taxes and

573
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:22,000
Speaker 3: who cares, I'm looking at the process, like, wait, you

574
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:24,399
Speaker 3: sending all these people to prison and you're basically babysitting

575
00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:27,160
Speaker 3: grown me in because you're getting food, you getting shelter,

576
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:30,399
Speaker 3: they get you closed soap, you know, certain necessities, but

577
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:34,000
Speaker 3: at the same time, there is nothing rehabilitative about the process.

578
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:36,359
Speaker 3: They make you take some generic classes that if you

579
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:38,159
Speaker 3: want to take, you can take. But I'm looking like,

580
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:41,000
Speaker 3: how are you trying to help these individuals? And so

581
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:43,520
Speaker 3: now it makes sense that probation. You hear meet meals

582
00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:47,400
Speaker 3: talk about probation, because if there's no rehabilitation, then there's

583
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:49,760
Speaker 3: going to be a need for probation because they gonna

584
00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:52,240
Speaker 3: lock your ass back up. If you're trying to prepare

585
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:55,240
Speaker 3: somebody properly, you don't worry about it. It's like your kids.

586
00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:56,960
Speaker 3: You don't say, you know what, I'm gonna give my

587
00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,000
Speaker 3: kids a full yet probationary period for them to go

588
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:01,280
Speaker 3: to school to college. Oh, you prepared them up until

589
00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:04,159
Speaker 3: eighteen to go out and be productive. And that's not

590
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:06,560
Speaker 3: what the penal system likes. So you get the private

591
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:08,760
Speaker 3: system where you get thirty six to thirty eight thousand

592
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:10,840
Speaker 3: per inmate, twenty eight hundred inmates.

593
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:13,560
Speaker 4: We don't have to get a calculator. Calculator, but whatever

594
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:14,679
Speaker 4: it is, it's a big number.

595
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:16,560
Speaker 3: Thirty eight thousand times twenty eight hundred.

596
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:19,680
Speaker 4: What do we got I want you to Okay, you're

597
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:21,960
Speaker 4: gonna let me do the honors. Here there's another first

598
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:25,159
Speaker 4: unwrongful conviction. Yeah, you never use a calculator. Thirty eight

599
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 4: thousand times twenty eight hundred equals So that's one hundred

600
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:34,399
Speaker 4: and six million, four hundred thousand dollars.

601
00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:35,679
Speaker 3: That's a lot of money.

602
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:37,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a crazy amount of money.

603
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:41,640
Speaker 3: I mean, but anyway, it's a third amount of money,

604
00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:42,440
Speaker 3: so you don't utilitate.

605
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 4: Listen, The very idea that there's a profit modeve in

606
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:49,000
Speaker 4: locking people up is insane, right, you know there's that

607
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:53,240
Speaker 4: There's that horrible movie Kids for Cash, which documented these

608
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:56,840
Speaker 4: cases in two thousand and five, I think it was

609
00:27:56,960 --> 00:28:00,760
Speaker 4: or seven, where these judges in Pennsylvania were two judges

610
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 4: were locking kids up for talking back to the teacher,

611
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:08,080
Speaker 4: for jaywalking, for posting one girl made a MySpace page

612
00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:09,960
Speaker 4: which she said was a joke, just making fun of

613
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:12,640
Speaker 4: her teacher, not threatening three months in jail. They were

614
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 4: being paid by the private prisons to send kids to jail,

615
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:18,480
Speaker 4: little thirteen year old fourteen year olds, to like a

616
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:21,200
Speaker 4: real prison too. This was no I mean, they were

617
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:23,240
Speaker 4: locking kids up to. I mean, the one kid that

618
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:25,560
Speaker 4: haunts me. His name was Charlie. He a lot of

619
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:27,840
Speaker 4: them do. But you know, he was since the six

620
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:30,159
Speaker 4: months for possession of stolen property. He had a scooter

621
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:31,679
Speaker 4: that his parents had given him for a present that

622
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 4: they didn't know was stolen, and some other kid had

623
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:36,800
Speaker 4: you know, they had bought it in a flea market,

624
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 4: whatever the hell they did, right, he had no idea.

625
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 4: They had no idea, and they locked him up for

626
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:43,400
Speaker 4: six months. And then they keep extending it when you're

627
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:45,080
Speaker 4: in there, because then the kid ends up smoking the

628
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:46,680
Speaker 4: joint in there because he, like you said.

629
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:47,800
Speaker 3: That's what they do. And if you don't get in

630
00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:50,000
Speaker 3: trouble in prison, they call him manipulating the system.

631
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:53,240
Speaker 4: Now, and this poor kid was in for most of

632
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:55,560
Speaker 4: his childhood. They managed to extend it and extend to

633
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:57,920
Speaker 4: keep penalizing him for different things. And I think he

634
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 4: was only out for a year before his eighteenth birthday.

635
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:01,959
Speaker 4: I locked up him he was thirteen, and you know,

636
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:05,400
Speaker 4: it's just it's so tragic. It's just so damn tragic.

637
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:07,720
Speaker 4: But and he did touch on something else I want

638
00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:10,120
Speaker 4: to talk about, which is incredible too, because I've been

639
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 4: working for over two decades. I've been on the board

640
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:15,280
Speaker 4: of the Drug Policy Alliance, which is working to you know,

641
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:17,200
Speaker 4: in the drug war, right, I call it the war

642
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 4: against the war on drugs, right, and bring some sanity

643
00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:22,720
Speaker 4: back to that all those crazy policies that we have

644
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:26,560
Speaker 4: in this country. And I've gotten to know Tony Papa

645
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:29,080
Speaker 4: very well works there now. And Tony was sentenced to

646
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:32,680
Speaker 4: fifteen the life for first defense cocaine charge, non violent.

647
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:37,200
Speaker 4: He was eventually granted clemency by the governor after twelve years.

648
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:39,240
Speaker 4: He painted his way out of prison and then he

649
00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:41,000
Speaker 4: did a self portrait that ended up in the Whitney.

650
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:43,800
Speaker 4: The guy's incredible anyway, so Tony Papa and he says

651
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:47,640
Speaker 4: he now does communications work for the Drug Policy Lines.

652
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:49,960
Speaker 4: And as he says, if you can't control the flow

653
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:52,120
Speaker 4: of drugs in a maximum security prison, how can you

654
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:54,520
Speaker 4: possibly hope to control it in the streets. And it

655
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:56,800
Speaker 4: makes perfect sense. But anyway, we don't want to make.

656
00:29:57,560 --> 00:29:59,240
Speaker 3: Speaking about the war on drugs. I believe it was

657
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:01,040
Speaker 3: nineteen sevent and I don't call me, but it was

658
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:03,360
Speaker 3: somewhere in that time frame that I read you know

659
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:05,320
Speaker 3: what the maximum amount you can get in the United

660
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 3: States before the initial war on drugs was set for

661
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:08,880
Speaker 3: any amount of drugs.

662
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:11,520
Speaker 4: No, tell me, I don't even know a year. Wow.

663
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:15,320
Speaker 3: And then eighty two, I believe Reagan initiated the war

664
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:16,040
Speaker 3: on drugs, and.

665
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:20,720
Speaker 4: Eighty five all major Nixon started it. When Nick Nixon started, Yeah,

666
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 4: every president has taken a table.

667
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 3: But eighty five is when the influx started bombarding inner

668
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 3: cities by Detroit, the Chicago's crack epidemic took over.

669
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:32,440
Speaker 4: No, and Nixon's you know, his one of his chief

670
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:34,600
Speaker 4: aides hauled them and I forgot whether he was the

671
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:36,720
Speaker 4: chief of staff or whatever. He has admitted later years

672
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:38,520
Speaker 4: that Nixon didn't want to war on drugs. He wanted

673
00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 4: to war on black people and hippies, but he couldn't

674
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:42,760
Speaker 4: call it that. And at the time there was only

675
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:46,120
Speaker 4: two percent of American public identified drugs as a problem exactly.

676
00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:48,640
Speaker 4: So he had to create a false crisis, which is

677
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:50,800
Speaker 4: what he did, and he declared this war on drugs.

678
00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:53,920
Speaker 4: And even then, the police departments didn't want to arrest

679
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:56,480
Speaker 4: people from drugs, so they created this new incentive where

680
00:30:56,480 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 4: they would give the police departments all extraitaries even if

681
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:03,160
Speaker 4: they met quota quota of drug arrests because they didn't

682
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 4: want to do it. You know, that's what's crazy. Back then,

683
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:09,360
Speaker 4: I think. You know, you're looking at a situation where

684
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:12,160
Speaker 4: police officers were going into the to the law, like

685
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:15,479
Speaker 4: I think a vast majority of them do, saying I

686
00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:18,239
Speaker 4: want to protect people. I want to I grew up

687
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 4: thinking maybe I want to be a police officer. You

688
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 4: know what I mean. You see the uniform, you respect it. Right.

689
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:26,120
Speaker 4: It's somehow or other got so twisted where and it's

690
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:31,720
Speaker 4: the government's fall by providing reverse incentives for persecuting regular people.

691
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 4: Now you have these home invasion rays where they're kicking

692
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:37,760
Speaker 4: in the door and you know, and people are getting

693
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 4: shot and wounded because they're looking for some drugs and

694
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 4: sometimes they go to the wrong house. I mean, it

695
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:43,800
Speaker 4: was that horrible case down south. It might even be

696
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:45,640
Speaker 4: in Georgia where they threw in the flash bang grenade

697
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:48,040
Speaker 4: and it landed in the baby's crib and the baby's

698
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:52,280
Speaker 4: now had thirty five operations and everything. I mean, it's madness, right,

699
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:55,440
Speaker 4: It's just looking for drugs which are going to be

700
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:57,680
Speaker 4: legal eventually. I mean, now, you know weed is on

701
00:31:57,720 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 4: the way, but we still have people serving crazy amounts

702
00:31:59,880 --> 00:32:00,560
Speaker 4: of time in prison.

703
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:03,320
Speaker 3: We noticed just must that have administered drugs are just

704
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:07,320
Speaker 3: as harmful, of not more harmful than the none legalized drugs.

705
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:09,040
Speaker 3: But they give it to your quantity because they control

706
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:11,360
Speaker 3: the quantity. Because they control them output, they can control

707
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:12,000
Speaker 3: the money.

708
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:14,560
Speaker 4: It's all money, man, Yeah, it's all money. I mean,

709
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 4: that's money. But I just posted on my Instagram, which

710
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:18,840
Speaker 4: by the way, is at It's Jason Flomp for those

711
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:20,880
Speaker 4: of you who don't follow me. But I posted on

712
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:23,080
Speaker 4: my Instagram today, you know, because of this Manifhord thing.

713
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:24,840
Speaker 4: I mean, he got sentenced to yeah, Syria, what his

714
00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:28,880
Speaker 4: white privilege, Paul Manifor forty seven months for you know,

715
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:31,320
Speaker 4: so many crimes you can't even count them over such

716
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:33,760
Speaker 4: an extended period of time. And then my friend Bernard

717
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:36,200
Speaker 4: Noble was sence to thirteen years and four months for

718
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:39,880
Speaker 4: possession of two joints. Possession. What the hell? I mean,

719
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 4: my head's exploding. But and he was a truck driver

720
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 4: forty seven years old, seven kids, you know, hit two

721
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:49,080
Speaker 4: prior arrests for simple possession twenty something years earlier. He

722
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:52,680
Speaker 4: did clean all this time. Let's get to the to

723
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:58,120
Speaker 4: the reversal, because the or the ultimate emotion for neutron freedom. Yeah,

724
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 4: so how did you actually managed to get yourself out

725
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:04,160
Speaker 4: of this miserable predicament? That's what I want to know.

726
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:07,720
Speaker 3: I had a motion for a new trial. I was cohersed,

727
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 3: pretty much blackmail into taking what they call it alphrod plea.

728
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:13,720
Speaker 3: I have the documents if you see right here. I

729
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:17,120
Speaker 3: have on record multiple times where they try to offer

730
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:19,640
Speaker 3: me these please and I'm like, I'm not taking the

731
00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:21,400
Speaker 3: plea for somebody to do. I'm not taking the plea.

732
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 3: I probably had on record four different times where they say,

733
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 3: if you don't take this plea, it's not coming back

734
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:28,720
Speaker 3: on the record. So how does this plea keep reappearing

735
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:32,040
Speaker 3: if someone declines a plea? Where do you see so

736
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:35,240
Speaker 3: many times on record where it resurfaces? And so at

737
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:36,720
Speaker 3: the beginning of my most of a new trial they

738
00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:39,080
Speaker 3: asked me to take a plea. My trial lawyer got

739
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:41,280
Speaker 3: up there and talk about the discrepancies and the things

740
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:44,000
Speaker 3: that violated my due process. And so when the most

741
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:48,080
Speaker 3: for newtrial is granted, it's based off of something that

742
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:51,160
Speaker 3: violated your due process. Whether it's an effective sense of counsole,

743
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:54,640
Speaker 3: whether it's prosecutorial, whether it's judicial for some legal reason

744
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:57,560
Speaker 3: that violated your due process, which is your fourteenth Amendment,

745
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:00,160
Speaker 3: which is very important for people to understand. And you

746
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:02,200
Speaker 3: got to understand, you know. And I'm gonna say this

747
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:05,560
Speaker 3: and be real quick. Martin Luther King's death or his fight,

748
00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:08,440
Speaker 3: the advocacy for civil rights is superseded just the right

749
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:12,360
Speaker 3: to vote. It's for people, individuals to understand. As a citizen,

750
00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:16,640
Speaker 3: you are given these rights to be an American citizen

751
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:18,879
Speaker 3: to where you don't have to fight for your rights

752
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:21,840
Speaker 3: if you understand what your rights are. See, we're fighting

753
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:24,359
Speaker 3: for something that's allocate, that's for us. When you're born

754
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:26,879
Speaker 3: an American citizen, you're giving these rights. So it's kind

755
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:28,640
Speaker 3: of like you know, you're going home and fighting for

756
00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:30,680
Speaker 3: your bed, and it's already your bed. That's your bid.

757
00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:32,520
Speaker 3: You just have to know it's your bed. So you know,

758
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:35,080
Speaker 3: I say this, especially African Americans, know your rights, know

759
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:37,960
Speaker 3: your amendments. I didn't personally care about minds before prison.

760
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:39,799
Speaker 3: When I went back and I learned my first my

761
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:43,000
Speaker 3: fourth how important. The fourth was, the fifth against self incrimination,

762
00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:46,640
Speaker 3: the sixth Amendment for a legal representation, the seventh, eighth

763
00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:49,280
Speaker 3: against cruel and harsh punishment for a team due process.

764
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:51,400
Speaker 3: So this was my most for a new trial was

765
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:54,320
Speaker 3: open on the grounds that I didn't get a fair trial,

766
00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 3: and at some point doing that process, I was basically

767
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:03,160
Speaker 3: pressured either do this or sit in prison two more years.

768
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:04,640
Speaker 3: And at that point, of how he been there a

769
00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:06,880
Speaker 3: year and a half. So what they offered me was

770
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:09,959
Speaker 3: my lawyer told me at the time that I would

771
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:14,759
Speaker 3: get time served this thing called first offenders, and I

772
00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:18,000
Speaker 3: would get out and my record to be expunged. And

773
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:20,080
Speaker 3: you know, I didn't even want to take it, and

774
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:22,320
Speaker 3: I had to call like a removal of court and

775
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:24,120
Speaker 3: speed to my mom and my son's mom. They were

776
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:26,600
Speaker 3: like all crying, like please just get out your kids,

777
00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:28,439
Speaker 3: miss you. I'm like, mom, I'm not taking a plea

778
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:30,279
Speaker 3: for somebody to do. And it was like it's an

779
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:33,759
Speaker 3: alpha plea which allows you to maintain your innocence, but

780
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:35,719
Speaker 3: it says you didn't want to go to court. I

781
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:37,560
Speaker 3: never mind, won't go on to trial. I know I

782
00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:39,359
Speaker 3: have enough proof to prove my ennocnce. That was never

783
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:41,279
Speaker 3: a case for me. It was never an issue by

784
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:42,200
Speaker 3: me not going to trial.

785
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:45,080
Speaker 4: So you ultimately accepted the outf for play.

786
00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:47,279
Speaker 3: Yes, and they told me how to be released. Then

787
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:49,680
Speaker 3: I wasn't released. Then I went back to prison for

788
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:50,920
Speaker 3: like eight more months.

789
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:52,840
Speaker 4: I've heard that story before too.

790
00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:55,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, they said. And then my lawyer was like, oh yeah,

791
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:56,759
Speaker 3: as soon as you get there, they're gonna process you

792
00:35:56,800 --> 00:36:00,359
Speaker 3: out and I might take up to thirty days. Trial

793
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:03,960
Speaker 3: was November seventeenth. He said, you may be home before Thanksgiving,

794
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:07,040
Speaker 3: no later than Christmas. I didn't get out till July.

795
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:12,200
Speaker 3: So I said another eight months, and that was July

796
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:13,880
Speaker 3: of twenty eighteen.

797
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:17,319
Speaker 4: So you've been home now for nine months. Yep. It

798
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:19,399
Speaker 4: seems like you hit the ground running, though I mean

799
00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:20,120
Speaker 4: I didn't.

800
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:22,640
Speaker 3: I thought I did too until I realized. Come in here,

801
00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:26,200
Speaker 3: help me realize. I didn't like my probation. I still

802
00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:29,640
Speaker 3: have a few years left for probation in Atlanta, and

803
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:32,480
Speaker 3: that's what I'm fighting for right now, my complete exoneration

804
00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:38,480
Speaker 3: and expungement of my record. But I didn't.

805
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:39,120
Speaker 4: I remember.

806
00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:42,839
Speaker 3: I woke up probably raised around about Christmas. I woke

807
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:46,440
Speaker 3: up just crying, man, just tears, because the psychological effect

808
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:49,600
Speaker 3: that this stuff has on you, it's just mind bog

809
00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:52,960
Speaker 3: You wake up at one point and it blew my mind.

810
00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:58,200
Speaker 3: At one point I thought about going back, and nobody

811
00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:00,319
Speaker 3: in my family, this is my first time. Even at

812
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:03,720
Speaker 3: one point I thought about going back back to prison.

813
00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:07,560
Speaker 3: That's the psychological effect that has on you. It's kind

814
00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:09,120
Speaker 3: of like, I don't even know if you watch like

815
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:10,439
Speaker 3: Game of Thrones, like.

816
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:12,080
Speaker 4: A couple of seasons theon.

817
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:15,160
Speaker 3: Lovejoy where old Boy had broke them to a dog

818
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:18,239
Speaker 3: and even if you open they said, once you break

819
00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:20,000
Speaker 3: a dog, you can open the cage and the dog

820
00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:23,279
Speaker 3: won't leave out. And that's what prison do, and that's

821
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:26,360
Speaker 3: why they have these probationary priscause Psychologically, the impact that

822
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:29,200
Speaker 3: it has on you, it breaks you. And that's the

823
00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:31,279
Speaker 3: whole purpose of it is to break you. And that's

824
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:38,680
Speaker 3: why I have my book Never Broken, because despite this tragic, unfortunate, mundane, crazy,

825
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:43,719
Speaker 3: malicious to me situation, I feel like there's people that's

826
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:46,520
Speaker 3: experienced worse than I have. I know that there are,

827
00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:49,040
Speaker 3: and I feel like, you know, I have an obligation

828
00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:51,880
Speaker 3: now with my situation and circumstances, to be a voice

829
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:55,440
Speaker 3: for a prison reform for the people that's maliciously prosecuted,

830
00:37:55,800 --> 00:38:00,239
Speaker 3: falsely prosecuted, and they understand that, you know, just as

831
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:04,040
Speaker 3: many innocent people go to prison as guilty people get off.

832
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:06,839
Speaker 3: But it's not a justification. What we have to do

833
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:10,360
Speaker 3: is pay more attention to what you know, our judicial

834
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:13,680
Speaker 3: system and the people we elect. So I encourage people

835
00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:16,120
Speaker 3: to be aware of who your judges are, who your

836
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:19,359
Speaker 3: all your state representatives are, who all your local representatives are,

837
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:23,000
Speaker 3: and that's where the power of voting and being aware

838
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:25,319
Speaker 3: of what's going on plays its part. We can get

839
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:28,680
Speaker 3: out here in Kumbaya and you know, Raley all we want,

840
00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:31,480
Speaker 3: but we need to put people in office and positions

841
00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:32,680
Speaker 3: that care about the people.

842
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:46,560
Speaker 4: You know, one of the things we can do in

843
00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:50,320
Speaker 4: this show. If you're listening, whether you live in Georgia

844
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:53,799
Speaker 4: or Alaska, it doesn't really matter. Everybody at some point

845
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:56,520
Speaker 4: gets a jury duty notice and when you serve on

846
00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:59,399
Speaker 4: a jury, which I encourage people to do, especially people

847
00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:01,879
Speaker 4: that are listening to show, who are woke right because

848
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:04,960
Speaker 4: they're listening to this show. So you know, if you

849
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:08,640
Speaker 4: do get all for jury duty, it's super annoying, Like

850
00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:11,319
Speaker 4: nobody wants to go. You know, you got to miss

851
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:14,719
Speaker 4: out on work and things and whatever. Everybody's busy, but

852
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:19,759
Speaker 4: go because go and go, then stay woke, because when

853
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:22,480
Speaker 4: you're there, recognize that there's stuff going on that you

854
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:24,080
Speaker 4: don't know and you can't see.

855
00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:27,080
Speaker 3: We have to become more educated, just in general about

856
00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:29,920
Speaker 3: the judicial process. The jury concept. The way it was

857
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:32,280
Speaker 3: founded was, you know, back I believe in the early

858
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:34,600
Speaker 3: thirteen hundred or something like that, fourteen hundred. It was early,

859
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:38,960
Speaker 3: and they were just sentencing gods just like guilty, guilty,

860
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:40,319
Speaker 3: And it got one guy said, wait a minute, you

861
00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:42,600
Speaker 3: guys don't even know me, like, give me a chance

862
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:45,160
Speaker 3: to show you my innocent. Let my peers judge who

863
00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:47,960
Speaker 3: I am. And so then that's how the jury situation

864
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:50,759
Speaker 3: came about. So it's important for you to understand that

865
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:53,920
Speaker 3: the whole purpose of the jury duty and the jury

866
00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:56,239
Speaker 3: selection is for you to recognize this individual as you're

867
00:39:56,239 --> 00:39:58,240
Speaker 3: a peer. Is it somebody you want in your community,

868
00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:00,840
Speaker 3: It's somebody you trust. The whole purpose the judicial system

869
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:03,600
Speaker 3: is for public reassurance. To make us feel safe, is

870
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:06,400
Speaker 3: to know that our government is working adamantly to secure

871
00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:10,160
Speaker 3: our safety, whether it's offshores, are on shores of you know,

872
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:12,880
Speaker 3: of American soil. So it's very important for people to understand,

873
00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:14,640
Speaker 3: like you said, how I know it's boring. I know

874
00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:16,480
Speaker 3: you don't want to be there. You can't just go

875
00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:18,560
Speaker 3: in there and say, well, I don't want to be

876
00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:20,080
Speaker 3: here there. I gotta go to work tomorrow because this

877
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:21,040
Speaker 3: is somebody's life.

878
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:24,520
Speaker 4: And then there's that you know, famous quote that it's

879
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:27,000
Speaker 4: better that one hundred guilty men should go free than

880
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:30,080
Speaker 4: that one incent should suffer. I'm pretty sure that was

881
00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:35,080
Speaker 4: Benjamin Franklin or the legendary Supreme Court justice Learning Hand

882
00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:38,040
Speaker 4: who said that our justice system is haunted by the

883
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:41,160
Speaker 4: ghost of the innocent man convicted. You know that quote

884
00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:45,279
Speaker 4: gives me chills, and yet it happens all day, every

885
00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:48,480
Speaker 4: day and twice on Sunday. And you know, there's that

886
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:51,960
Speaker 4: saying that everyone you meet is fighting a battle you

887
00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:55,880
Speaker 4: know nothing about, so be kind, right, And I know

888
00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:59,279
Speaker 4: so many of the different people that I interviewed on

889
00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:03,200
Speaker 4: this show been through these horrendous situations. I mean, some

890
00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:05,799
Speaker 4: of them in prison for thirty forty years for things

891
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:08,600
Speaker 4: they didn't do. And they all have different ways of

892
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:15,480
Speaker 4: explaining how they found this extra gear, this this strength,

893
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:18,960
Speaker 4: this grace I call it right where they're able to

894
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:23,759
Speaker 4: get up every day and project a positive influence onto

895
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 4: the world. And you certainly seem like that guy as well.

896
00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:30,959
Speaker 4: You know, and I know I've spoken to you about

897
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:33,319
Speaker 4: this before, so I wanted to ask you and then

898
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:37,520
Speaker 4: I'll have one more question after this, But are you bitter?

899
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:38,680
Speaker 3: No, sir.

900
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:43,319
Speaker 4: And it's interesting because so many people that I talked

901
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:45,520
Speaker 4: to civilians about this issue all the time. People have

902
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:47,480
Speaker 4: listened to the show. Other people they say, but I

903
00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:50,480
Speaker 4: don't understand how how can anybody who's been through what.

904
00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:55,400
Speaker 3: Because that's not the answer. Frustration, hate, anger is not

905
00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:58,600
Speaker 3: the answer. I love to judge. I love my stepdaughter,

906
00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:01,560
Speaker 3: I love her father. I love it prosecute. I even

907
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:03,440
Speaker 3: love the jury. If I had to do one thing,

908
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:05,279
Speaker 3: I would want to sit down like this and just

909
00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:07,719
Speaker 3: ask them why. And I would want them to just

910
00:42:07,719 --> 00:42:09,640
Speaker 3: hang out. Just spend one day with me, Spend an

911
00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:12,560
Speaker 3: hour with me, watch me interact with my kids. Watch

912
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:16,319
Speaker 3: me go to a facility or a place and you know,

913
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:19,000
Speaker 3: car wash and see a young lady with her daughters.

914
00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:20,920
Speaker 3: And watch how I tell my sons to go over

915
00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:24,520
Speaker 3: there and vacuum that car, or go pump that lady's gas,

916
00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:27,400
Speaker 3: or go grab that lady's groceries. Watch how I'm in

917
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:29,600
Speaker 3: a restaurant, I see lady with kids, I pay for

918
00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:31,960
Speaker 3: her food. You know, it's so many things that I

919
00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:35,680
Speaker 3: do that the people who know me immediately will go, Man,

920
00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:36,680
Speaker 3: you're different.

921
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:39,719
Speaker 4: It's remarkable, and there's so much to be learned for

922
00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:41,920
Speaker 4: people who are going through their day to day struggles

923
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:46,040
Speaker 4: and may find, you know, aggravations in daily life.

924
00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:50,560
Speaker 3: But once everything is taken from you, especially abruptly, and

925
00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:52,920
Speaker 3: then you're broken down to the bare minimum. That's why

926
00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:54,719
Speaker 3: they say some homeless people are the happiest. They have

927
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:57,960
Speaker 3: no worries and so just nothing to cut you off.

928
00:42:57,960 --> 00:42:59,640
Speaker 3: But to answer that question, we say, how to each

929
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:02,240
Speaker 3: and every want to rive at this same place because

930
00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:05,640
Speaker 3: you've been stripped of everything that the pressures of society

931
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:09,160
Speaker 3: that man has. So now when you just have to

932
00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:11,600
Speaker 3: bear you, you just have your connection with God or

933
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:15,040
Speaker 3: whatever you believe in. And so the strength and your

934
00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:19,239
Speaker 3: relationship with a higher call and the higher being is

935
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:22,560
Speaker 3: indicated by how you conduct yourself and how you respond.

936
00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:24,960
Speaker 3: I know that God has all my steps number and

937
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:27,440
Speaker 3: whatever they meant for evil, God meant for good. I

938
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:30,600
Speaker 3: wouldn't have been here two years ago. I wouldn't even

939
00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:33,240
Speaker 3: thought about prison reform two years ago. I will probably

940
00:43:33,239 --> 00:43:36,680
Speaker 3: be probably with my kids on some island or somewhere

941
00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:39,360
Speaker 3: kicking it. But my point is this, I've always been aware,

942
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:41,000
Speaker 3: but this gave me another fight, you know what I

943
00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:44,120
Speaker 3: because I'm huge on youth advocacy, and now was the

944
00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:46,440
Speaker 3: hardest part about this allegation against a child. I have

945
00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:48,799
Speaker 3: a history in proof and I'll show you documents even

946
00:43:48,840 --> 00:43:51,200
Speaker 3: after we get off air, where I'm speaking to young women,

947
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:54,719
Speaker 3: young men empowering them. So that was the hardest part

948
00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:58,120
Speaker 3: because my degree is an education from Alabama State University.

949
00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:00,560
Speaker 3: So when you take away my core, which is the

950
00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:05,200
Speaker 3: love for advocacy for youth and empowering young men and

951
00:44:05,239 --> 00:44:08,600
Speaker 3: women in low economic environments, that's what hurt. And in

952
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:10,200
Speaker 3: fact that they took me from my kids, Like the

953
00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:13,280
Speaker 3: hardest part was walking away and knowing that my kids

954
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:14,440
Speaker 3: were outside.

955
00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:17,000
Speaker 4: You know, certainly meeting you when I did. You know,

956
00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:19,480
Speaker 4: like I said, you still seem like that guy who

957
00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:21,880
Speaker 4: would be more likely to be on stage accepting an

958
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:24,320
Speaker 4: award than then you were to end up in prison.

959
00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:27,960
Speaker 3: And I mean, I guess for me. And in addition,

960
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:31,000
Speaker 3: I think one of the hardest and the craziest situation

961
00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:33,600
Speaker 3: just being in there. Jay was the fact that like

962
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:37,640
Speaker 3: I would look up and I will see myself on television.

963
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:39,279
Speaker 3: You know, some of the other guys would kind of

964
00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 3: be looking like you know that that looks just.

965
00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:42,880
Speaker 4: Like you know.

966
00:44:43,239 --> 00:44:45,560
Speaker 3: And when they finally figured it out, it was crazy.

967
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:50,040
Speaker 4: That's totally surreal. So you're in prison looking at the

968
00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:57,840
Speaker 4: TV seeing yourself, watching your previous life literally flashing in front.

969
00:44:57,640 --> 00:45:00,600
Speaker 3: Of your eyes. Initially, when I first I saw myself,

970
00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:03,920
Speaker 3: Atlanta was on and they watched it because it's Atlanta

971
00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:06,200
Speaker 3: Bay Show and I'm in Georgia. You know, a lot

972
00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:07,920
Speaker 3: of guys have been locked up for so long. They

973
00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:11,000
Speaker 3: couldn't affiliate me with the character. And then most of

974
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:13,320
Speaker 3: them are so negative almost that they don't they wouldn't

975
00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:16,399
Speaker 3: believe that someone they watched no television would be locked

976
00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:18,799
Speaker 3: up with them. So that was the first thing. And

977
00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:21,120
Speaker 3: then when I got to the facility, I was at

978
00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:24,520
Speaker 3: down in coffee with this ring came on and one

979
00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:27,960
Speaker 3: of the officers walked in was like, hey, gg, building

980
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:29,800
Speaker 3: wants you. So I look up and all the dudes

981
00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:31,640
Speaker 3: in the wind they're like, yo, coach, because they call

982
00:45:31,719 --> 00:45:34,520
Speaker 3: me coach. They actually called me coach in prison because

983
00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:36,640
Speaker 3: I used to help a lot of guys with like

984
00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:40,520
Speaker 3: basketball and boxing, and you know, with that illegal work

985
00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:42,880
Speaker 3: because I started doing a lot of legal research and

986
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:45,319
Speaker 3: stuff like that. So they all started calling me coach,

987
00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:47,680
Speaker 3: but they was like, yo, coach. And then after that

988
00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:49,359
Speaker 3: I was so much love man, Like I never had

989
00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:53,279
Speaker 3: any incidents where gangs or none of that stuff. Man,

990
00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:56,120
Speaker 3: you know, the top dogs, I was always cool with,

991
00:45:56,239 --> 00:45:57,920
Speaker 3: you know what I mean. So I don't know if

992
00:45:57,960 --> 00:45:59,319
Speaker 3: it was gonna get around, but shout out to you know,

993
00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:01,279
Speaker 3: everybody that's right now that's still in cars. You're ready

994
00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:03,520
Speaker 3: to keep your head up, man, and your time in

995
00:46:03,560 --> 00:46:04,359
Speaker 3: the sun is coming.

996
00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:04,640
Speaker 4: Man.

997
00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:07,080
Speaker 3: But yeah, it's be crazy, yee. I see myself and

998
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:10,920
Speaker 3: multiple television shows, my movies was airing, and a lot

999
00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:15,960
Speaker 3: of them ironically was happy to be almost locked up

1000
00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:18,839
Speaker 3: with somebody that was successful. And it was crazy because

1001
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:20,600
Speaker 3: I got so much love and support. So it was

1002
00:46:21,239 --> 00:46:23,279
Speaker 3: they were all rooting for me to get out. I

1003
00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:24,759
Speaker 3: never hit my story. You know, a lot of time

1004
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:26,399
Speaker 3: when you go to prison, they tell you, man, you're

1005
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:28,120
Speaker 3: going there on some sex storr they gonna do blah

1006
00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:30,520
Speaker 3: blah blahlah blah. But the guys all knew me as

1007
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:35,000
Speaker 3: a man first, and everyone was frustrated. A lot of

1008
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:37,319
Speaker 3: inmates was pissed, like, man, man, you got to get out,

1009
00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:39,080
Speaker 3: You got to tell your case, you got to tell

1010
00:46:39,120 --> 00:46:41,640
Speaker 3: your story. I was got so much support and encouragement

1011
00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:43,640
Speaker 3: from the guys in there because they met me and

1012
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:45,719
Speaker 3: as a man, they can tell that, you know, I

1013
00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:48,760
Speaker 3: was innocent and so and I mean it was just crazy.

1014
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:53,279
Speaker 4: Man, that's just an outer body, a trippy, crazy experience

1015
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:55,799
Speaker 4: that I hope nobody else has to go through. But man,

1016
00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:56,960
Speaker 4: what a what a life.

1017
00:46:57,320 --> 00:46:59,160
Speaker 3: Thank you to all the supporter I got, because I

1018
00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:02,520
Speaker 3: know at one point distribution company had hesitation about my

1019
00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:05,799
Speaker 3: roles like in say, for instance, Tupac. But shout out

1020
00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:08,800
Speaker 3: to Benny Boom and Hutting for supporting me and rioting

1021
00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:11,040
Speaker 3: with me by keeping my parts. Shout out to the

1022
00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:13,840
Speaker 3: producers and Donald and all the guys with Atlanta for

1023
00:47:14,040 --> 00:47:18,200
Speaker 3: keeping my parts. Shout out to you know, Tresa Mega

1024
00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:21,879
Speaker 3: mind for continue to push our project secrets. Shout out

1025
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:24,880
Speaker 3: to you know, Robbie Reid and you know Tracy and

1026
00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:27,320
Speaker 3: all the people that looked out from BT who initially

1027
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:28,959
Speaker 3: you know, as soon as I got out, we're trying

1028
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:31,000
Speaker 3: to put me in projects and working to put me

1029
00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:35,080
Speaker 3: in projects to regain you know, my stature in the game.

1030
00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:37,600
Speaker 3: So thank you all for the support and everyone else

1031
00:47:37,640 --> 00:47:39,960
Speaker 3: and got some real big projects on the way.

1032
00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:44,640
Speaker 4: This has been an extraordinary interview. I appreciate you coming

1033
00:47:44,680 --> 00:47:48,799
Speaker 4: in and sharing your story and everything that you're doing

1034
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:51,319
Speaker 4: to try to make a difference. I know that this

1035
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:57,520
Speaker 4: will ultimately work itself out. I hope it will, and

1036
00:47:57,560 --> 00:48:00,600
Speaker 4: then everything will get cleared up, and I know the

1037
00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:02,719
Speaker 4: best is yet to come for you. So you know,

1038
00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:06,920
Speaker 4: I wish you well. We have a traditional wrong for conviction,

1039
00:48:07,040 --> 00:48:09,560
Speaker 4: which is that at the end of the show, my

1040
00:48:09,719 --> 00:48:14,040
Speaker 4: favorite part, I think everybody's favorite part, the producers.

1041
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:16,560
Speaker 3: Audience, is that it's gone to hear people.

1042
00:48:16,719 --> 00:48:20,600
Speaker 4: I get to actually, just like I said, thank you

1043
00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:23,240
Speaker 4: for being here, and then turn over for the last

1044
00:48:23,719 --> 00:48:28,120
Speaker 4: brief closing thoughts for anything you want to say about anything.

1045
00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:34,840
Speaker 3: Oh just love man. Like I said event yesterday earlier

1046
00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:37,319
Speaker 3: this week with Andrew, one of the owners at the

1047
00:48:37,320 --> 00:48:39,600
Speaker 3: Red Rooster, and they were doing something for Outreach, which

1048
00:48:39,640 --> 00:48:43,319
Speaker 3: is an urban program are for low income families. There

1049
00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:46,239
Speaker 3: are so many organizations, there's so many groups, there's so

1050
00:48:46,360 --> 00:48:51,240
Speaker 3: many entities or organizations that's trying to put it together.

1051
00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:54,759
Speaker 3: I just and close when I'm trying to say, we

1052
00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:56,600
Speaker 3: have to find a way to unify this. You know

1053
00:48:56,640 --> 00:48:58,760
Speaker 3: what I mean, because there's a lot of people doing

1054
00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:03,120
Speaker 3: things all across the nation, the world, and I think

1055
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:04,600
Speaker 3: we just got to find a way to unify it.

1056
00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:08,520
Speaker 3: We need to get past racial bearers, stigmas and stuff

1057
00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:10,720
Speaker 3: like that. We need to try to stop pointing a finger.

1058
00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:13,319
Speaker 3: I said, I don't have no maliciousness toward anybody. I

1059
00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:15,600
Speaker 3: know there's a bigger purpose. I just want people to

1060
00:49:15,600 --> 00:49:19,080
Speaker 3: become aware. Don't just grow. Evolve and growth us is

1061
00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:21,440
Speaker 3: a part of the human condition. That's something that naturally

1062
00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:24,160
Speaker 3: we all do. We grow, it's aging. But evolved is

1063
00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:26,839
Speaker 3: when you as a person, you see stuff, you see

1064
00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:28,319
Speaker 3: the bigger picture, you know what I mean, Like a

1065
00:49:28,360 --> 00:49:30,719
Speaker 3: caterpillar and I feel like a lot of people just

1066
00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:34,760
Speaker 3: caterpillaring alone. But the purpose is to turn into that butterfly.

1067
00:49:35,080 --> 00:49:36,920
Speaker 3: I know it's a slow journey. It feels like the

1068
00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:39,480
Speaker 3: process of being a caterpillar, and it's you know, whether

1069
00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:42,080
Speaker 3: you're trying to get to this goal, this destiny, this journey,

1070
00:49:42,360 --> 00:49:45,600
Speaker 3: just know that that process is a part of your journey.

1071
00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:48,440
Speaker 3: But the evolution into the butterfly is when you grow

1072
00:49:48,480 --> 00:49:50,240
Speaker 3: as a person and you see that the most important

1073
00:49:50,280 --> 00:49:52,279
Speaker 3: thing that we have that God has given us is

1074
00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:55,480
Speaker 3: each other. Everything that was created other than the earth

1075
00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:57,600
Speaker 3: was made by man, whether it's the iPhone, whether it's

1076
00:49:57,600 --> 00:50:00,359
Speaker 3: the car, whether it's bloonney sandwich. So God, it gives

1077
00:50:00,440 --> 00:50:04,960
Speaker 3: us each other to live abundantly happy with one another,

1078
00:50:05,200 --> 00:50:07,479
Speaker 3: but we take it for granted, you know, be more

1079
00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:10,759
Speaker 3: collectively aware of one another and just try to love.

1080
00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:12,960
Speaker 3: When people say that shit and they be like, oh, yeah,

1081
00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:15,120
Speaker 3: I love each other sounds great, but that's what it's about, man,

1082
00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:18,040
Speaker 3: So I love you. I appreciate you having me. It

1083
00:50:18,080 --> 00:50:20,799
Speaker 3: feels good to kind of get this initially off my

1084
00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:23,200
Speaker 3: chest because I've been holding it out for over two

1085
00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:25,600
Speaker 3: and a half going on three years, if not actually

1086
00:50:25,600 --> 00:50:27,799
Speaker 3: longer than that, because it took three and a half

1087
00:50:27,880 --> 00:50:30,160
Speaker 3: years to go to trial. So like this is my

1088
00:50:30,239 --> 00:50:34,640
Speaker 3: first time speaking out publicly. I'm grateful that we had

1089
00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:37,040
Speaker 3: the opportunity to meet, you know, thank you Fie out

1090
00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:40,680
Speaker 3: in Los Angeles and they sign They're also doing phenomenal

1091
00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:42,600
Speaker 3: work at the Mayor's office and it's a lot of

1092
00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:45,880
Speaker 3: prison reform organizations. At the end of the day, what

1093
00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:48,760
Speaker 3: prison reform means is for us to have a society

1094
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:51,400
Speaker 3: where our judicial system works fairly for all of us.

1095
00:50:51,640 --> 00:50:54,439
Speaker 3: The domino effect the prison reform helps us with health

1096
00:50:54,480 --> 00:50:57,239
Speaker 3: care by taking money out of these prisons and put

1097
00:50:57,239 --> 00:50:59,640
Speaker 3: them to the healthcare sector, by taking them out of

1098
00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:02,279
Speaker 3: these press and put them to the educational sector. And

1099
00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:04,680
Speaker 3: that's what's most important. So the reason why our prison

1100
00:51:04,719 --> 00:51:07,520
Speaker 3: reform is important because we have to be where our

1101
00:51:07,520 --> 00:51:10,680
Speaker 3: tax dollars and where our money's being allocated, you know

1102
00:51:10,719 --> 00:51:12,319
Speaker 3: what I'm saying. So it's deeper than that. It's a

1103
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:15,120
Speaker 3: domino effect, and the domino effect is love and it's

1104
00:51:15,320 --> 00:51:18,960
Speaker 3: educating each other. Understand this. You are your own individual.

1105
00:51:19,600 --> 00:51:23,160
Speaker 3: Don't let no entity or individuals stop you from doing

1106
00:51:23,160 --> 00:51:23,680
Speaker 3: what you love.

1107
00:51:24,160 --> 00:51:29,280
Speaker 4: It's a wrap. Thank you Harold House Moore, Harold House

1108
00:51:30,360 --> 00:51:35,560
Speaker 4: being here and sharing your story, and thank you everyone

1109
00:51:35,600 --> 00:51:38,359
Speaker 4: for listening to Wrongful Conviction. We'll see you next week.

1110
00:51:48,360 --> 00:51:50,960
Speaker 4: Don't forget to give us a fantastic review wherever you

1111
00:51:51,040 --> 00:51:54,680
Speaker 4: get your podcasts. It really helps. And I'm a proud

1112
00:51:54,760 --> 00:51:57,319
Speaker 4: donor to the Enesis Project, and I really hope you'll

1113
00:51:57,400 --> 00:52:00,760
Speaker 4: join me in supporting this very important cause and helping

1114
00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:04,840
Speaker 4: to prevent future wrongful convictions. Go to innocensproject dot org

1115
00:52:04,960 --> 00:52:07,719
Speaker 4: to learn how to donate and get involved. I'd like

1116
00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:10,760
Speaker 4: to thank our production team, Connor Hall and Kevin Wartis.

1117
00:52:11,080 --> 00:52:13,360
Speaker 4: The music in the show is by three time OSCAR

1118
00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:16,440
Speaker 4: nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us on

1119
00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:21,280
Speaker 4: Instagram at Wrongful Conviction and on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast.

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00:52:21,640 --> 00:52:24,720
Speaker 4: Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flamm is a production of Lava

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00:52:24,719 --> 00:52:31,080
Speaker 4: for Good Podcasts in association with Signal Company Number one