WEBVTT - Ep. 1047: Back 40 - Affordable Habitat Projects That Actually Work 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:00.760 Hey, what is going on? 0:00:00.800 --> 0:00:03.320 This is Jake Hoefer and welcome back to another episode 0:00:03.360 --> 0:00:06.760 of Back forty. We have four guests, one question, and 0:00:06.920 --> 0:00:10.600 this week we're talking about what are the most affordable 0:00:10.840 --> 0:00:13.880 habitat projects that actually work? So we can come up 0:00:13.880 --> 0:00:16.160 with a million different things that you could potentially do, 0:00:16.239 --> 0:00:18.920 but the eighty twenty rule, what is the twenty percent 0:00:18.960 --> 0:00:21.640 effort that may help you have eighty percent more success? 0:00:21.920 --> 0:00:23.119 And they have to be affordable. 0:00:23.200 --> 0:00:27.120 So I hope this helps folks throughout this upcoming season 0:00:27.400 --> 0:00:30.080 on planning out priority list. A lot of these things 0:00:30.120 --> 0:00:31.960 are expensive and so we wanted to focus on what 0:00:32.040 --> 0:00:34.800 is affordable and what is impactful. Once again, we have 0:00:34.880 --> 0:00:37.239 our cast of four guests for this episode. We have 0:00:37.280 --> 0:00:41.240 West Elks, Steve Hansen, Jake Ellinger, and Sam bill Horn. 0:00:41.320 --> 0:00:42.800 Each of them have a little bit. 0:00:42.680 --> 0:00:46.159 Different habitat terrain, a little different issues they're trying to solve 0:00:46.240 --> 0:00:48.680 or overcome. And to kick things off, we're going to 0:00:48.720 --> 0:00:52.640 start with West Elks with Higgins outdoors. He consults on 0:00:52.760 --> 0:00:55.120 a lot of farms every single year and here we go. 0:01:00.560 --> 0:01:05.120 All right, Wes, welcome back to Back forty. We have 0:01:05.120 --> 0:01:09.360 another burning question for you, and you know I feel 0:01:09.400 --> 0:01:12.720 like when it comes to managing a property, it gets 0:01:12.760 --> 0:01:15.440 really expensive, really fast. There's all these things that you 0:01:15.480 --> 0:01:17.560 can do, and we talked, we previously talked about what 0:01:17.840 --> 0:01:20.000 you avoid it all costs, but now you know, let's 0:01:20.000 --> 0:01:22.759 say someone has a fixed budget. You know, they've they've 0:01:23.040 --> 0:01:26.080 stretched to get whatever hands on a piece of property, 0:01:26.080 --> 0:01:27.920 whether it's a lease, they knocked on doors and you know, 0:01:28.000 --> 0:01:33.039 have exclusive permission, or they bought a farm. And ultimately, 0:01:33.880 --> 0:01:36.880 in your opinion, what are some of the most affordable 0:01:36.920 --> 0:01:40.280 projects that actually make the biggest impact, Because I mean, 0:01:40.280 --> 0:01:42.160 I could rattle off some cheap projects, but I don't 0:01:42.160 --> 0:01:44.679 know how much they will really make a true impact. 0:01:44.800 --> 0:01:48.360 So with your own experience, what you've observed from even 0:01:48.720 --> 0:01:50.440 clients that farms you've been on and like, man, that 0:01:50.560 --> 0:01:52.800 was a very affordable project, and you know, they have 0:01:52.840 --> 0:01:54.840 the opportunity to show you the success that they've had. 0:01:54.720 --> 0:01:58.160 Tied to that. So what is cheap and what works? 0:01:58.280 --> 0:01:59.520 Is the simplest way to say. 0:01:59.400 --> 0:02:03.040 This, Yeah, cheap is relative, but I can tell you 0:02:03.080 --> 0:02:10.760 what's effective, And I would say encouraging and discouraging deer 0:02:10.800 --> 0:02:16.760 traffic is something that ninety nine percent of hunters are 0:02:16.840 --> 0:02:22.400 not doing but makes an incredible difference in their deer hunting. 0:02:23.240 --> 0:02:26.480 And I talk with so many hunters that I would 0:02:26.520 --> 0:02:31.679 consider conservative hunters, and they're sticking to the edge that 0:02:31.720 --> 0:02:35.120 they're blowing their wind into areas of lesser deer likelihood. 0:02:35.880 --> 0:02:38.959 But when it comes to November, they are banging their 0:02:39.040 --> 0:02:43.280 head against the tree because they're seeing deer, they're seeing 0:02:43.600 --> 0:02:46.760 the bucks that they want to but they're eighty ninety 0:02:47.200 --> 0:02:52.480 one hundred plus yards out and encouraging and discouraging deer traffic. 0:02:53.080 --> 0:02:56.360 To me, is the number one thing that a deer 0:02:56.400 --> 0:03:00.720 hunter can do to improve the huntability of the properties 0:03:00.720 --> 0:03:04.600 that they're on. And it doesn't have to be expensive. 0:03:06.120 --> 0:03:08.919 It takes a lot of work, it takes a lot 0:03:08.960 --> 0:03:12.840 of sweat equity. But champions are made in the off season. 0:03:13.080 --> 0:03:16.160 I don't care what sports you follow. If you watch NFL, 0:03:16.440 --> 0:03:21.760 NBA March Madness, they didn't win that championship the week 0:03:21.800 --> 0:03:26.000 that they showed up. It came through a year or 0:03:26.040 --> 0:03:30.919 even a life of committing to their process. And champions 0:03:30.919 --> 0:03:33.120 are made in the off season. And if you're showing 0:03:33.200 --> 0:03:36.400 up to November hoping to kill a big buck each year, 0:03:36.560 --> 0:03:39.880 but haven't put in the off season efforts to make 0:03:40.000 --> 0:03:42.240 that possibility or reality. 0:03:43.200 --> 0:03:46.400 Like I said, it's a recipe for frustration. 0:03:47.240 --> 0:03:50.840 And what I mean by encouraging and discouraging deer traffic 0:03:52.080 --> 0:03:57.720 is encouraging deer traffic to me, is making the path 0:03:58.040 --> 0:04:03.000 of least resistance by any and all means possible for 0:04:03.080 --> 0:04:08.600 the deer, selecting a stand location based on access and wind, 0:04:09.080 --> 0:04:12.080 and then doing everything that I can to make a 0:04:12.200 --> 0:04:15.520 deer walk within twenty five yard. 0:04:15.600 --> 0:04:16.279 I like them close. 0:04:16.400 --> 0:04:18.119 I don't want them at forty I want them at 0:04:18.160 --> 0:04:22.360 twenty twenty five yards. And so I will encourage deer 0:04:22.440 --> 0:04:27.080 traffic or I want it. And that might be using 0:04:27.160 --> 0:04:30.800 a chainsaw and cutting a trail and then coming back 0:04:30.880 --> 0:04:33.960 through with a backpack sprayer full of round up in 0:04:34.000 --> 0:04:34.640 a residual. 0:04:35.800 --> 0:04:36.719 That might be. 0:04:36.720 --> 0:04:39.640 Creating a creek crossing, getting in there with the skids 0:04:39.680 --> 0:04:44.000 deer and excavator, grading the banks, maybe bringing in some 0:04:44.120 --> 0:04:49.719 rock and making that creek crossing a shallower crossing. You 0:04:49.760 --> 0:04:52.480 can do a lot of things to encourage deer traffic. 0:04:52.880 --> 0:04:56.040 Put in a big culvert across the ravine, create a 0:04:56.120 --> 0:04:59.559 land bridge. Those are all opportunities of making the path 0:05:00.120 --> 0:05:04.880 of least resistance. But what I find is even I 0:05:04.920 --> 0:05:11.359 would argue even more effective is discouraging deer traffic. And 0:05:11.720 --> 0:05:15.560 discouraging deer traffic is the exact opposite of what I 0:05:15.680 --> 0:05:18.080 just talked about. Is I want to create the path 0:05:18.120 --> 0:05:21.320 of least resistance for the deer, but I also want 0:05:21.360 --> 0:05:24.640 to create the path of most resistance for the deer, 0:05:25.279 --> 0:05:28.240 and that means building brush blockades. 0:05:30.160 --> 0:05:32.280 To me, what a brush blockade. 0:05:31.839 --> 0:05:35.119 Is is Donald Trump and I are on the same 0:05:35.240 --> 0:05:39.360 page when it comes to walls, and I like good 0:05:39.400 --> 0:05:42.880 strong walls. And what I will do with a timber 0:05:42.960 --> 0:05:48.920 project or along a edge is cut some low value trees, 0:05:49.640 --> 0:05:52.480 push them together with a skid steer and a grapple, 0:05:53.400 --> 0:05:56.120 and then hinge cut into it. And I don't I'm 0:05:56.120 --> 0:05:58.960 not talking about a brush pile that's knee high. I'm 0:05:58.960 --> 0:06:03.320 talking about a rush wall of a brush blockade, and 0:06:04.680 --> 0:06:10.000 that funnels a lot of deer traffic. So brush blockades 0:06:10.920 --> 0:06:14.240 lining up round bails. A lot of people think round 0:06:14.279 --> 0:06:19.919 bails are expensive. One thing that I've done is my 0:06:20.040 --> 0:06:22.880 warm season grasses. So I've got switch grass and giant 0:06:22.920 --> 0:06:26.440 miscanthus fields across my property that I want to burn 0:06:26.520 --> 0:06:29.039 every three or four years, and There's a kid that 0:06:29.080 --> 0:06:31.200 lives down the road from my house, and he's got 0:06:31.200 --> 0:06:35.320 a round bailer, and the week prior to the burn, 0:06:36.600 --> 0:06:39.279 I will come in and have him cut and round 0:06:39.320 --> 0:06:42.880 bail my switch grass and giant miscanthus to where it's 0:06:44.040 --> 0:06:46.760 eight ten inches stubble swear can still carry a fire. 0:06:47.360 --> 0:06:50.640 But last time we did that here on my seventeen 0:06:50.640 --> 0:06:54.559 acre switchgrass giant miscanthus patch, that gave me one hundred 0:06:54.600 --> 0:06:59.640 and twenty three five foot round bails. So one hundred 0:06:59.640 --> 0:07:03.560 and twenty three three times five, that's a significant distance 0:07:03.760 --> 0:07:07.400 of discouraging deer traffic. You line up one hundred and 0:07:07.440 --> 0:07:09.920 twenty three round bails, you're gonna have a deer trail 0:07:09.960 --> 0:07:15.200 on either side. That's the reality of it. Other opportunities 0:07:15.240 --> 0:07:19.560 would be on a property a couple of years ago, 0:07:19.960 --> 0:07:22.520 I dug a. You can call it a pond, you 0:07:22.520 --> 0:07:23.800 can call it a water hole, you can call it 0:07:23.800 --> 0:07:26.880 a trench, whatever you want to call it. I got 0:07:26.920 --> 0:07:29.400 in there with an excavator and one hundred and fifty 0:07:29.480 --> 0:07:34.120 yards long, dug a call it a waterhole. And so 0:07:34.600 --> 0:07:36.880 one hundred and fifty yards on the edge of a 0:07:36.920 --> 0:07:42.200 food plot, this water hole that is about four foot 0:07:42.240 --> 0:07:46.560 deep and probably ten to twelve foot wide. A lot 0:07:46.600 --> 0:07:48.920 of traffic going around the two ends of that water hole. 0:07:50.960 --> 0:07:52.200 I think of another guy. 0:07:52.360 --> 0:07:54.560 How long, real quick, how long? How long do you 0:07:54.600 --> 0:07:57.120 think those round bils will last? The one season grass? 0:07:57.400 --> 0:07:57.960 Yeah? 0:07:58.000 --> 0:07:59.600 Good questions last some time. 0:07:59.680 --> 0:08:02.320 Yeah, I've got a buddy that did it sixteen years ago. 0:08:02.920 --> 0:08:08.600 And with those five foot round bails, they've the wind 0:08:08.600 --> 0:08:11.840 and the weather has significantly brought those round bails down 0:08:11.880 --> 0:08:16.520 to probably maybe not half their height, but significantly smaller. 0:08:16.560 --> 0:08:20.840 They've absolutely degraded, but there's been little trees that grow 0:08:20.920 --> 0:08:23.840 up in them, and yeah, there's some places where they can. 0:08:23.720 --> 0:08:26.520 Get through, but you can go through there and put. 0:08:26.360 --> 0:08:30.920 A small cattle panel or something like that, and they're 0:08:30.960 --> 0:08:33.480 the vast majority of traffic is still going around the 0:08:33.559 --> 0:08:33.920 end of that. 0:08:34.160 --> 0:08:37.680 So, and it depends on the quality of the bail 0:08:37.760 --> 0:08:38.520 that you're using. 0:08:38.640 --> 0:08:42.040 I mean, you want to use a good binding material 0:08:43.040 --> 0:08:46.400 in the hay that you're using is I think switch 0:08:46.440 --> 0:08:50.440 grass and giant miscanthus is. It's a lot it's going 0:08:50.520 --> 0:08:52.560 to take longer for it to break down than a 0:08:52.600 --> 0:08:53.600 low quality hay. 0:08:54.000 --> 0:08:57.040 So but yeah, for. 0:08:57.640 --> 0:09:00.439 Seeing all my Buddi's property, that's sixteen years letter it's 0:09:00.480 --> 0:09:03.480 still effective. That's long enough for me to be like, yeah, 0:09:03.760 --> 0:09:04.680 that's fourth of my time. 0:09:06.120 --> 0:09:07.640 Yeah, that's pretty fascinating. 0:09:07.720 --> 0:09:11.520 Yeah, that's that's a creative and affordable way to cover 0:09:11.600 --> 0:09:15.080 a lot of distance versus because I was waiting for 0:09:15.120 --> 0:09:16.360 you to say fence, I was like, well, fence isn't 0:09:16.360 --> 0:09:18.360 super cheap, but it does last for a super long time. 0:09:18.679 --> 0:09:23.599 Well, fences is not cheap. But you can go to 0:09:23.720 --> 0:09:27.679 Rural King and they sell cattle panels. Hog panels are 0:09:27.720 --> 0:09:31.040 a foot shorter. Cattle panels are a foot taller, and 0:09:31.080 --> 0:09:36.040 they come in sixteen foot sections and they're normally about 0:09:36.040 --> 0:09:39.440 twenty five bucks a pop if you buy ten cattle panels. 0:09:39.520 --> 0:09:42.800 So you're looking at two hundred and fifty dollars and 0:09:42.880 --> 0:09:46.000 you line up ten cattle panels, I mean, if you 0:09:46.000 --> 0:09:49.480 can make the two hundred and fifty dollars investment and like, 0:09:50.920 --> 0:09:53.720 it's amazing what you can do with ten cattle panels. 0:09:54.520 --> 0:09:57.280 Yeah, I mean that's you said they're sixteen foot long 0:09:57.400 --> 0:10:00.679 yep to one hundred and sixty feet es. Yeah, I 0:10:00.720 --> 0:10:03.720 mean that is actually that adds up relatively affordable. Yeah, 0:10:03.840 --> 0:10:06.280 to cover that much distance and super easy to install 0:10:06.679 --> 0:10:09.319 as well. It is you were gonna bring up someone 0:10:09.360 --> 0:10:11.400 else for an example, and then and then we'll wrap 0:10:11.440 --> 0:10:11.839 it up here. 0:10:12.400 --> 0:10:14.680 Just a client that comes to mind. 0:10:14.720 --> 0:10:21.439 Whenever somebody asked me about encouraging discouraging traffic is always 0:10:21.480 --> 0:10:23.199 brings a smile to my face. As he owned a 0:10:23.280 --> 0:10:27.120 junk yard, so there was school buses and RVs and 0:10:27.880 --> 0:10:30.840 old trucks and cars around, and I pitched this idea 0:10:30.920 --> 0:10:33.079 of things that we could do on his property to 0:10:33.960 --> 0:10:36.720 make it better. And I had these green lines where 0:10:36.720 --> 0:10:39.199 I wanted to encourage deer traffic, and I had these 0:10:39.280 --> 0:10:43.040 red lines where I wanted to discourage deer traffic. 0:10:43.040 --> 0:10:45.520 And he goes, well, how about a school bus there? 0:10:46.040 --> 0:10:49.440 I was like, yeah, absolutely so. 0:10:50.040 --> 0:10:50.559 I mean. 0:10:52.200 --> 0:10:55.640 Some people make excuses and some people find solutions. That's 0:10:55.720 --> 0:10:59.880 Don Higgins quote, one of my favorites. And if you 0:11:00.280 --> 0:11:04.000 can find do what it takes to manipulate dear traffic 0:11:04.080 --> 0:11:07.439 past those most conservative locations, you're gonna have a lot 0:11:07.440 --> 0:11:08.040 more success. 0:11:09.760 --> 0:11:10.520 Yeah. Well, I love it. 0:11:10.559 --> 0:11:12.920 Where where can people follow along with what you have 0:11:13.000 --> 0:11:16.000 going on? Because I think these are all really great 0:11:16.000 --> 0:11:18.800 piece of advice, and I feel like someone could have 0:11:18.840 --> 0:11:20.560 a general idea and maybe they have a follow up 0:11:20.600 --> 0:11:23.000 question for you, because everyone's situation is a little bit different. 0:11:23.080 --> 0:11:26.200 Yeah, I suggest listen to the Chasing Giants podcast with 0:11:26.240 --> 0:11:28.840 Don Higgins and Terry Peer. Or you can follow me 0:11:28.920 --> 0:11:33.080 on social media on Facebook or Instagram which is just 0:11:33.200 --> 0:11:35.880 Wesley Delks, or you can reach out to me via 0:11:35.960 --> 0:11:43.440 email which is Wes Wes at real World, Wildlifeproducts dot com. 0:11:43.800 --> 0:11:47.240 And I'd love to talk with you there. Awesome, Thank 0:11:47.280 --> 0:11:49.760 you so much, Thanks Jake. All right, there we have 0:11:49.880 --> 0:11:52.720 it with West Delks. Next up we have Steve Hanson 0:11:52.960 --> 0:11:56.080 and Iowa. He helps a lot of different people from 0:11:56.080 --> 0:11:58.600 his real estate career of helping those types of clients 0:11:58.640 --> 0:12:00.720 and also tackles a lot of projects on his own. 0:12:00.880 --> 0:12:02.839 So without further ado, let's go ahead and get into 0:12:02.880 --> 0:12:05.520 it with Steve Hanson. All right, Steve, welcome to back 0:12:05.600 --> 0:12:09.400 forty back to run you through another scenario that I 0:12:09.400 --> 0:12:12.680 think everyone has fallen into us some point, whether they're 0:12:12.720 --> 0:12:17.640 just getting started or as life evolves. You know, budgets 0:12:17.720 --> 0:12:21.920 have to get allocated differently, and in your opinion, of 0:12:21.960 --> 0:12:23.840 all the different projects that can be done on a farm, 0:12:23.840 --> 0:12:28.000 obviously there's huge overhauls that are often you know, pretty expensive, 0:12:28.840 --> 0:12:32.600 what are or what is potentially one of the most 0:12:32.640 --> 0:12:37.520 affordable habitat projects that actually makes the best ROI. So, 0:12:37.559 --> 0:12:39.160 I mean we could rattle off a lot of you know, 0:12:39.280 --> 0:12:42.080 cheap projects that maybe might not move the needle a ton. 0:12:42.920 --> 0:12:45.200 But as a rule of thumb, for someone that has 0:12:45.240 --> 0:12:49.440 a limited budget, limited equipment, what gets you excited if 0:12:49.559 --> 0:12:51.000 if I called JEP and said, haste, if I have 0:12:51.040 --> 0:12:55.360 a limited budget, I need to improve my farm, and 0:12:55.559 --> 0:12:56.960 I'll let you paint the rest of the picture, because 0:12:56.960 --> 0:12:57.880 I know every farm is different. 0:12:59.320 --> 0:13:01.760 Yeah, you know, it's a toss up between two for 0:13:01.840 --> 0:13:05.640 me right now. The two I'm thinking of is fertilizing 0:13:05.760 --> 0:13:08.920 the native vegetation that's there, whether that's prairie grass and stuff. 0:13:09.200 --> 0:13:11.400 But the one I'm gonna think I'm gonna go with 0:13:12.360 --> 0:13:16.680 is burning. I think burning is by far the most 0:13:16.880 --> 0:13:23.320 cost effective do it yourself landowner type, you know, reasonable 0:13:23.720 --> 0:13:26.960 landowner do it yourself project that simply you could do 0:13:27.080 --> 0:13:31.079 with you know, a backpack water sprayer, a leaf blower, 0:13:31.679 --> 0:13:34.440 you know some and you know, maybe a mower or 0:13:34.480 --> 0:13:36.760 something like that to create even a lawnmower to create 0:13:36.800 --> 0:13:39.680 some fire breaks depending on and it works both equally 0:13:39.720 --> 0:13:42.800 as well in the timber as it does in the CRP. 0:13:42.920 --> 0:13:45.880 And I think you'll note or any native grasslands and 0:13:45.920 --> 0:13:49.000 you'll notice big benefits with both. So the reason I 0:13:49.120 --> 0:13:51.760 chose that one is because not only is that one 0:13:52.080 --> 0:13:54.640 going to provide way better forage in the areas that 0:13:54.640 --> 0:13:59.040 you burn, it's actually ecologically better for everything it takes 0:13:59.080 --> 0:14:02.720 care of invasive, it rejuvenates the forest, you know, it 0:14:02.800 --> 0:14:06.080 helps with It helps on so many levels in addition 0:14:06.120 --> 0:14:09.280 to the hunting. Where fertilizing native vegetation that was more 0:14:09.320 --> 0:14:12.319 of a that would help your hunting, you know what 0:14:12.400 --> 0:14:14.960 I mean. That was almost like creating micro food plots 0:14:14.960 --> 0:14:18.120 and little areas like that. But I think I think 0:14:18.240 --> 0:14:22.000 overall burning is probably the one that people that is 0:14:22.080 --> 0:14:25.080 lowest cost. And by saying low cost, it's only low 0:14:25.120 --> 0:14:27.400 cost if you're able to do it yourself. You start 0:14:27.440 --> 0:14:30.720 having a higher burning done that gets pretty expensive and 0:14:30.800 --> 0:14:36.480 pretty cumbersome. So a lot of states offer burn training 0:14:36.520 --> 0:14:41.160 seminars and then some states, I know Missouri does they 0:14:41.200 --> 0:14:44.280 sort of have a cooperative where you can burn and 0:14:44.560 --> 0:14:47.120 you're expected to show up on X amount of work 0:14:47.200 --> 0:14:51.160 days and in return the collective or the group will 0:14:51.200 --> 0:14:54.080 show up and burn yours. So yeah, so you would. 0:14:54.160 --> 0:14:57.960 And then they have they have like trailers, small trailers 0:14:58.600 --> 0:15:00.840 with all the equipment. I don't know if you pay 0:15:00.880 --> 0:15:03.280 a fee to join this thing, I know there may 0:15:03.280 --> 0:15:05.920 be something. I don't think it's expensive, but that's a 0:15:05.960 --> 0:15:08.400 great way, especially for a landowner that has quite a 0:15:08.440 --> 0:15:11.200 few acres, you know, where they're they and they don't 0:15:11.200 --> 0:15:14.040 have anybodies that they could trust, or a local fire 0:15:14.080 --> 0:15:16.920 department or something like that. Obviously there's there's some safety 0:15:16.960 --> 0:15:20.120 concerns to doing it, but it of all the native 0:15:20.200 --> 0:15:23.200 vegetation everything in our part of the you know, of 0:15:23.240 --> 0:15:27.160 the Midwest, it benefits from fire done correctly. So that's 0:15:27.160 --> 0:15:29.440 that's going to be one the one that I'll go with. 0:15:29.920 --> 0:15:33.080 Yeah, I mean that's in terms of high impact, low 0:15:33.120 --> 0:15:35.600 cost that it doesn't get, you know, much more affordable 0:15:35.600 --> 0:15:37.080 than a drip torch and a little gas and a 0:15:37.120 --> 0:15:39.000 little diesel and the leak lower like a lot of 0:15:39.040 --> 0:15:43.280 equipment you likely already have. And then also too to 0:15:43.320 --> 0:15:46.360 your point, like local volunteer fire departments, maybe we'll if 0:15:46.400 --> 0:15:48.600 you can work with them and have a training day. 0:15:48.640 --> 0:15:54.560 Depending on a terrain and and do you think this is. 0:15:54.560 --> 0:15:59.680 A question do you think that people are too intimidated 0:15:59.720 --> 0:16:03.000 by And I know that is like it's a fine 0:16:03.040 --> 0:16:05.120 line because you know, I think a lot of people 0:16:05.160 --> 0:16:08.520 are maybe overconcerned. And then I don't want to downplay 0:16:08.520 --> 0:16:10.600 it either by phrasing it that way, but I want 0:16:10.600 --> 0:16:11.360 to get your opinion. 0:16:12.160 --> 0:16:14.120 Yeah, I think I think a lot of people are 0:16:14.120 --> 0:16:17.840 intimidated by it, and somewhat rightly so, because done incorrectly, 0:16:17.920 --> 0:16:21.320 I mean, you know, the results could literally be catastrophic. 0:16:21.400 --> 0:16:25.920 But it's also very easy to manage. 0:16:26.400 --> 0:16:26.600 You know. 0:16:26.720 --> 0:16:30.040 The biggest mistakes that I see people make, and it's 0:16:30.360 --> 0:16:33.600 is simply a timing issue. You know. They they you know, 0:16:33.680 --> 0:16:35.640 two months out, they plan, Oh, we're going to burn 0:16:35.720 --> 0:16:38.520 March tenth. I've got these buddies coming, I got these 0:16:38.520 --> 0:16:40.600 guys coming. Well, they get up the morning of March 0:16:40.680 --> 0:16:43.840 tenth and it's a northwest wind blowing about twenty five 0:16:43.880 --> 0:16:47.760 miles an hour, humidity down around twenty five percent. They 0:16:47.760 --> 0:16:50.800 have no business burning, but they've set the stage to 0:16:50.880 --> 0:16:53.000 do it, so they go ahead with their burn and 0:16:53.040 --> 0:16:57.760 it inevitably gets away. So that's you know, that that 0:16:57.760 --> 0:17:00.400 would be that would be what I would avoid try 0:17:00.600 --> 0:17:04.439 trying to get trying to be flexible on the days 0:17:04.680 --> 0:17:07.560 because on the right day, with light wind and moderate 0:17:07.640 --> 0:17:11.960 humidity and burning, what's a backburn meaning burning against the 0:17:12.040 --> 0:17:16.520 direction of the prevailing wind. It's very safe and very controlled. 0:17:17.880 --> 0:17:20.959 Have you have you ever done like a like a 0:17:21.000 --> 0:17:23.280 fall burn or a late summer burn or anything like that. 0:17:23.320 --> 0:17:26.040 I know, I think doctor Craig Harper has some data saying, 0:17:26.280 --> 0:17:28.000 you know, like I think it. Don't quote me, and 0:17:28.080 --> 0:17:32.800 so I haven't researched this heavily at all, but in essence, 0:17:32.840 --> 0:17:36.639 I think at sometime of an August burn, actually, if 0:17:36.680 --> 0:17:39.120 the timing is right with the rain, it actually produces 0:17:39.160 --> 0:17:42.520 some like very very extreme high quality forage if you 0:17:42.560 --> 0:17:44.080 get the rain in that August time frame. Have you 0:17:44.080 --> 0:17:45.280 ever experimented with that. 0:17:45.760 --> 0:17:49.360 You know, I've not done an August burn. I have 0:17:49.440 --> 0:17:53.240 done quite a few fall burns. Usually we do them later. 0:17:53.320 --> 0:17:55.119 We're doing them in like you know, there's still a 0:17:55.200 --> 0:17:57.080 dormant season burn. They're going to be after a heavy 0:17:57.119 --> 0:17:59.720 frost freeze like late November. I know, we burned a 0:17:59.760 --> 0:18:02.520 hundre at Acres at the end of November last year 0:18:02.520 --> 0:18:04.960 and it went really, really well. I'm glad we did it, 0:18:05.640 --> 0:18:08.000 and I've got we've got three that we didn't at 0:18:08.080 --> 0:18:10.560 least three that we didn't get done this spring that 0:18:10.720 --> 0:18:16.160 now will get pushed back. The other advantage is you're 0:18:16.880 --> 0:18:19.760 you're by doing a fall burn, you're gonna benefit the 0:18:19.800 --> 0:18:23.240 forbes in your mix. You're gonna it's gonna help them. 0:18:23.600 --> 0:18:27.360 Basically a spring burn, a spring burn helps the grasses, 0:18:27.600 --> 0:18:31.359 hurts the forbes. A fall burn suppresses the grasses helps, 0:18:31.520 --> 0:18:33.880 you know. So it's it's kind of what your intentions are. 0:18:34.160 --> 0:18:36.760 So well, no, I think that that. 0:18:37.960 --> 0:18:40.840 Do you have any bad fire stories real quick of 0:18:40.880 --> 0:18:43.320 what not to do for someone's Like, okay, all right, Steve, 0:18:43.359 --> 0:18:45.720 you said this is the you know, highest impact. I 0:18:45.760 --> 0:18:50.159 feel semi confident. Uh, maybe do you have like whatever 0:18:50.160 --> 0:18:52.400 you do, don't do this. You mentioned the right conditions 0:18:52.440 --> 0:18:54.480 is key, but beyond. 0:18:54.160 --> 0:18:56.840 That, this one would play into the right condition. So 0:18:56.880 --> 0:19:01.600 I have a good real estate client and and we 0:19:01.680 --> 0:19:04.439 helped him add to his already big farm. Bought a 0:19:04.480 --> 0:19:07.199 five hundred and fifty acre track and he said, hey, 0:19:07.240 --> 0:19:09.960 would you guys help us help me burn that? So 0:19:10.040 --> 0:19:12.960 I said sure. And he's got all his own farm 0:19:12.960 --> 0:19:16.679 equipment and everything, so he went and did his fire breaks. 0:19:16.720 --> 0:19:18.320 He had a big disc, so I thought, oh, that 0:19:18.400 --> 0:19:22.720 he disked these fire breaks. Mistake number one, did not 0:19:22.920 --> 0:19:27.440 check them, assumed the fire breaks in his mind were 0:19:27.480 --> 0:19:30.520 done well. When you go in a heavy grass with 0:19:30.560 --> 0:19:33.240 a disk, the first pass or two would actually make 0:19:33.280 --> 0:19:36.480 it worse because it condenses that grass and fuel low 0:19:36.560 --> 0:19:39.479 to the ground, which will allow the fire to travel faster. 0:19:40.480 --> 0:19:42.639 So we get there. You know, we're always busy, so 0:19:42.720 --> 0:19:45.600 we're in a hurry. We assume he had his fire breaks, 0:19:46.000 --> 0:19:50.440 and we lit it. It's windier than it should be anyways, 0:19:50.440 --> 0:19:52.360 but it's a bit. He has a big farm. One 0:19:52.400 --> 0:19:54.960 side of this was a river, so that part of it. 0:19:55.000 --> 0:19:57.800 I was somewhat comfortable with what if it got away 0:19:57.880 --> 0:20:01.000 because it was limited to his land, the side we 0:20:01.040 --> 0:20:06.480 were burning and the river. So we light. It instantly 0:20:06.520 --> 0:20:09.000 crosses the fire breaks. I have a friend that was 0:20:09.119 --> 0:20:12.080 lighting for me, and I was usually one person lights 0:20:12.080 --> 0:20:14.119 and one person goes behind and stops it at the 0:20:14.119 --> 0:20:17.320 fire break from burning into your brakes. I can't even 0:20:17.359 --> 0:20:19.360 catch him or get him on the phone to tell 0:20:19.400 --> 0:20:24.159 him to stop burning. Right, So the first the fire's 0:20:24.160 --> 0:20:29.080 out of control instantly. The first little, you know, and 0:20:29.160 --> 0:20:31.040 it was. It was later in the burn season, so 0:20:31.080 --> 0:20:33.080 there's a lot of smoke. First time we get a 0:20:33.080 --> 0:20:36.680 good wind and the smoke blows away, you know, blows 0:20:36.680 --> 0:20:39.879 out a different direction. I go, there's a truck parked 0:20:39.920 --> 0:20:43.720 out there in the burn, and so I call the 0:20:43.800 --> 0:20:47.840 landowner and I said, there's a truck out there. He's like, no, 0:20:47.880 --> 0:20:50.600 there's not, and I said, yeah, there is. I can 0:20:50.640 --> 0:20:53.680 see it through the smoke. He goes, oh, no, that's 0:20:53.680 --> 0:20:55.480 a five hundred gallon fuel tank. We had it down 0:20:55.520 --> 0:21:00.960 there for the dozer, so left in the middle of 0:21:01.000 --> 0:21:04.080 the burn. Never told us again my mistake for not 0:21:04.840 --> 0:21:09.920 investigating what we were doing, just that yeah, that one 0:21:10.000 --> 0:21:12.880 was a near miss, so we instantly didn't even worry 0:21:12.880 --> 0:21:15.560 about fighting the fire. All we did was worry about 0:21:15.840 --> 0:21:18.359 protecting that fuel tank. So then we just had to 0:21:18.440 --> 0:21:20.840 let it burn to wherever it went and chase it down, 0:21:20.920 --> 0:21:23.760 and it ended up getting on a neighbor, not really 0:21:23.800 --> 0:21:26.560 doing any damage, but I felt bad that one of 0:21:26.600 --> 0:21:30.040 their neighbors were obviously hunters. And I literally called the 0:21:30.040 --> 0:21:32.480 guy because it burned right under some of his stands, 0:21:32.960 --> 0:21:35.520 and I said, hey, don't climb into those stands. It 0:21:35.560 --> 0:21:37.520 could have burned the straps, you know what I mean. 0:21:38.520 --> 0:21:41.439 I said, any damage we did, we'll certainly cover for you. 0:21:43.000 --> 0:21:47.119 Another funny story is again helping a friend another friend 0:21:47.160 --> 0:21:51.280 slash real estate client. He's burning at his pace. He 0:21:51.440 --> 0:21:54.400 had good fire breaks and is very very knowledgeable guy. 0:21:54.880 --> 0:21:58.800 But we burned some switchcrests that was every bit of 0:21:58.840 --> 0:22:01.879 eight feet tall, and there was three of us doing it, 0:22:01.960 --> 0:22:04.840 and we were burning hundreds of acres on his place 0:22:04.880 --> 0:22:09.000 that day. We got it so hot that, uh, I 0:22:09.040 --> 0:22:11.119 think it was I'm trying to think of the brand 0:22:11.119 --> 0:22:13.360 of the shooting house it was. It was a grizzly 0:22:13.600 --> 0:22:17.280