WEBVTT - Two Ts Presents: Two Jersey Js: Til Death Do Us Part?

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<v Speaker 1>Hi guys, Hi everyone. I'm Jen Fessler, I'm Jackie Goldschneider.

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<v Speaker 2>And together we are two Jersey Jays and here we are.

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<v Speaker 2>How you doing there, jack I'm good. Everything is good.

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<v Speaker 2>It's beautiful out. It is beautiful out.

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<v Speaker 1>Finally, finally spring has sprung and everything's good. No complaints.

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<v Speaker 1>Kids are healthy. Aiden's walking again. You know, he broke

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<v Speaker 1>his knee. He's on the night we were at Madonna horrible.

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<v Speaker 1>He is almost fully back and we're just getting ready.

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<v Speaker 2>We're going to Europe.

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<v Speaker 1>Nice, very nice, very excited and just happy to be

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<v Speaker 1>here recording another pod with my best Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>So we Jackie and I. When we were going over

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<v Speaker 2>what to talk about for this episode. This past week,

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<v Speaker 2>we had the pleasure of going to a live podcast. Uh.

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<v Speaker 2>TJ Holmes and Amy Roeboch did their first live podcast

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<v Speaker 2>after I don't know what to call it, a scandal

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<v Speaker 2>types well, it was really a scandalal type situation, but

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<v Speaker 2>it was if you guys don't know, it was very scandalous,

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<v Speaker 2>and so if you don't know, Amy and TJ were

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<v Speaker 2>hosts on Good Morning America for hours, yes not just

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<v Speaker 2>the third hour. Amy hosted throughout and TJ was also

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<v Speaker 2>like the sports oh okay, right, reporter throughout and he

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<v Speaker 2>did a lot of like filling in, so so I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>like you know, I would think like one of the

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<v Speaker 2>most coveted broadcasting positions that one could have, right, They

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<v Speaker 2>are big deals, and they had an affair, although they yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>they get very upset with that. They call it a relationship,

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<v Speaker 2>not just that, but they there were reasons they didn't

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<v Speaker 2>call it an affair. TJ was already I guess, had

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<v Speaker 2>already been separated from his life.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, they said that they were not in good relationships.

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<v Speaker 1>They were in relationships that were crumbling at the time

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<v Speaker 1>that they started their relationship.

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<v Speaker 2>So they didn't really talk about their previous marriages, but

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<v Speaker 2>they talked a lot about shame. They talked a lot

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<v Speaker 2>about scandal, about getting fired. I mean, the news, the

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<v Speaker 2>paparazzi reported on it, and like days later they were

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<v Speaker 2>both fired from these really really high profile jobs and

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<v Speaker 2>what it was like and you know, sort of trying

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<v Speaker 2>to figure out they didn't even want to leave the house,

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<v Speaker 2>but where to go from there. So they were really

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<v Speaker 2>really honest and I love them both. And it's funny

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<v Speaker 2>because we posted about this and I got some comments

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<v Speaker 2>and some DM saying you had a great night with

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<v Speaker 2>Amy and tj oh you enjoy spending time with cheaters,

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<v Speaker 2>or because I think I said something to the effect of, like,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, I admire them, and so I got some

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<v Speaker 2>blowback for that, which kind of pisses me off in

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<v Speaker 2>the sense that you know, all of these high standards

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<v Speaker 2>that everybody is so perfect, everybody more perfect, right, And listen,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not saying that they didn't make mistakes, and they

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<v Speaker 2>actually talked about that. Their worst mistake was probably keeping

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<v Speaker 2>it a secret for so long that they should have

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<v Speaker 2>taken control of the narrative. But anyway, listen, you're also

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<v Speaker 2>talking about a situation that I've you know, participated in

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<v Speaker 2>terms of infidelity, and my husband and I have both

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<v Speaker 2>experienced it, and shit happens and nobody gets away without either,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, being the culprit. I'm not saying just a cheating,

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<v Speaker 2>just there was so much judgment around what I had posted.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so the thing that got me and I love

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<v Speaker 1>the podcast and I love listening to them, and I

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<v Speaker 1>find them both to be warm and adorable and very

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<v Speaker 1>in love with each other. But what I wish that

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<v Speaker 1>they touched on just for a second, was what happened?

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<v Speaker 2>What was happening in their relationships at the time, right, you.

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<v Speaker 1>Know, because then you're left to one or what I

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<v Speaker 1>found myself wondering And I'm not second guessing them. I

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<v Speaker 1>don't know them, you know, but like, was the other

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<v Speaker 1>person blindsided?

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<v Speaker 2>Did they know how unhappy? Well you in TJ's I know,

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<v Speaker 2>in Tech's case, he had already moved out. I know.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, Amy talked about a photo that she had

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<v Speaker 2>taken in Greece and that it was just felt like

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<v Speaker 2>such a lie. We don't know. And again they probably

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<v Speaker 2>were being respectful of their you know, ex or soon

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<v Speaker 2>to be ex spouses. It was a podcast, It wasn't

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<v Speaker 2>a discussion with, you know, a therapist.

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<v Speaker 1>But what I was left with was wondering, like, well,

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<v Speaker 1>what happened what happens in your old marriage?

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<v Speaker 2>Like to get to that point, to get to that.

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<v Speaker 1>Point where you I remember one thing they said was

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<v Speaker 1>and because they had been friends for quite a while,

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<v Speaker 1>and then they said that like one day, like a

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<v Speaker 1>look just turns into a gaze, and like what happens

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<v Speaker 1>to get you to that point where the friend with

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<v Speaker 1>a friendship crosses over?

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<v Speaker 2>Right, you know, and then the affair starts and what

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<v Speaker 2>happens in the marriage that you're even open to it,

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<v Speaker 2>which is what.

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<v Speaker 1>Is happening at home that you're open to it. So

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<v Speaker 1>today we want to talk to an expert. Yees, we'll

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<v Speaker 1>tell you.

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<v Speaker 2>Who she is about what goes on.

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<v Speaker 1>In a marriage that can get you to that breaking

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<v Speaker 1>point and what can you do about it so that

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<v Speaker 1>you don't get there.

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<v Speaker 2>Not just not just in terms of like having an affair,

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<v Speaker 2>but you know, the disintegration of marriage and how to

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<v Speaker 2>get back from a place you know that's that's really

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<v Speaker 2>bad and maybe you know, get your marriage back on

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<v Speaker 2>track or not, when do you call it quits? So

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<v Speaker 2>you guys, today we have a very very special guest.

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<v Speaker 2>It's someone that I know pretty well. I've known this

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<v Speaker 2>person for years. She is a therapist. She has been

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<v Speaker 2>in the business for what thirty years. She was the

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<v Speaker 2>executive director of rehabilitation centers in Florida. She worked a lot,

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<v Speaker 2>has worked a lot with addiction. She is currently running

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<v Speaker 2>a practice here in Northern Jersey and she is beyond

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<v Speaker 2>booked and there's a lot of focus for her right

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<v Speaker 2>now on marriage counseling. I know all of this about

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<v Speaker 2>her because I've known her for fifty four years, since

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<v Speaker 2>she is my sister. Hi Robbie, Hi Ram introducing Robin Gutterman.

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<v Speaker 2>You guys, we're so excited to have you.

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<v Speaker 1>Here because I know that you know all about this

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<v Speaker 1>topic that we are going to discuss what causes the

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<v Speaker 1>end of a marriage, because you tell her.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, you know we have been We've discussed before you

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<v Speaker 2>hopped on, Robin that Jackie and I recently attended a

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<v Speaker 2>live podcast with TJ Holmes and Amy Robock. I don't

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<v Speaker 2>know if you know them. I think we've discussed it,

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<v Speaker 2>but anyway, so the two of them, they had an affair.

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<v Speaker 2>They were fired from Good Morning America like two days

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<v Speaker 2>after the word was out. It was a huge scandal,

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<v Speaker 2>and they recently, for the first time sort of shared

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<v Speaker 2>the story. What they really didn't do is talk too

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<v Speaker 2>much about their previous marriages. They didn't talk at all. Yeah, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>they really were more focused on the shame that came

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<v Speaker 2>from the scandal, about how the affairs started, how they

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<v Speaker 2>became best friends. They both know TJ struggled with a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of depression in terms of the job he was doing.

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<v Speaker 2>So Jackie and I have just you know, been talking

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<v Speaker 2>a lot about them, and you know, a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>our listeners, I am pretty sure, struggle with these issues.

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<v Speaker 2>And even if it's not marriage, it could be long

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<v Speaker 2>term relationships. I know that. You actually just attended a

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<v Speaker 2>conference in Orlando, right, I.

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<v Speaker 3>Did a Marriage and Family Center conference from a really

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<v Speaker 3>brilliant guy who is one of the top like gurus

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<v Speaker 3>of marriage, of marriage and family counseling.

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<v Speaker 4>So I mean, you.

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<v Speaker 1>Take you take it people like Amy and TJ who

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<v Speaker 1>seem very together, they have their shit together, their beautiful, loving,

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<v Speaker 1>warm and you wonder what could have gone so wrong

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<v Speaker 1>in their previous relationships.

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<v Speaker 2>That yeah, right, yeah, well, I mean they the affair

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<v Speaker 2>the way they've represented it, and again they didn't really

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<v Speaker 2>talk too much about previous marriages, but it was sort

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<v Speaker 2>of more about the way that they fell in love.

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<v Speaker 2>So we're but for our purposes, you know, I would

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<v Speaker 2>love to talk about what is happening in the marriage

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<v Speaker 2>and how does a marriage disintegrate, And I'm sure there's

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<v Speaker 2>all different ways, but to the point where an affair happens,

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<v Speaker 2>a divorce happens, how do you robin get people back

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<v Speaker 2>on track? Can you always get people back on track.

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<v Speaker 2>So one of the biggest issues. Yeah, let's start at

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<v Speaker 2>the start. What's the what's the number one thing that

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<v Speaker 2>tears people apart?

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<v Speaker 3>Communication, I would say, or an inability to manage conflict at.

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<v Speaker 2>House of what I say, is that something because we're

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<v Speaker 2>you know, as you know rob our podcast, we're focused

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<v Speaker 2>on women of a certain age, not necessarily newlyweds. But still,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know, maybe these problems run, you know, in

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<v Speaker 2>terms of they run with newlyweds and then people have

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<v Speaker 2>been married for years and years. But right, tell us, like,

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<v Speaker 2>what is I guess communication is sort of the most

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<v Speaker 2>common issue. Does that happen at the beginning of a marriage?

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<v Speaker 2>Does the marriage disintegrate our kids the reason? Yeah?

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<v Speaker 1>Does that mean you just don't talk or you don't

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<v Speaker 1>know how to resolve your issues?

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<v Speaker 3>I mean yeah, I think there are a lot of

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<v Speaker 3>things that end up being the struggle for people in marriage.

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<v Speaker 3>One of them, I mean, things do change after you

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<v Speaker 3>have children, for sure, that becomes a big piece. Finances

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<v Speaker 3>intimacy or lack of intimacy emotionallyhysically, sexually over time, especially

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<v Speaker 3>in older women, I think that starts to decrease over

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<v Speaker 3>time from what I'm seeing a lot of But you know,

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<v Speaker 3>the things that people really focus on are the things

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<v Speaker 3>that keep.

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<v Speaker 4>The marriage together.

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<v Speaker 3>And there are three things, right, So it starts with

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<v Speaker 3>friendship being allies and partners in a relationship, putting each

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<v Speaker 3>other first, making each other a priority above anyone and

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<v Speaker 3>everything else is even the kids, even the kids, without

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<v Speaker 3>a doubt, the marriage comes before the children.

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<v Speaker 2>Robbie, what does that look like on like in a

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<v Speaker 2>practical can you give us like an example of that,

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<v Speaker 2>like a practical example when for people that are dealing

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<v Speaker 2>with the juggling the kids and the marriage.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I think it's you know, on a daily basis,

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<v Speaker 3>we talk about you're either turning towards or turning away

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<v Speaker 3>from your partner.

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<v Speaker 4>And everything that you do on a daily basis.

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<v Speaker 3>So for example, you're sitting at the table, right and

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<v Speaker 3>you're with your partner and one if you picks up

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<v Speaker 3>the phone and is reading your text messages, that would

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<v Speaker 3>be considered a turnway. Right, you're having a conversation, you're

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<v Speaker 3>not giving eye contact, that would be a turnarway. One

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<v Speaker 3>text the other throughout the day, the other one doesn't answer,

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<v Speaker 3>that would be considered a turn away. There's many things

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<v Speaker 3>that we do on a daily basis that we're either

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<v Speaker 3>nurturing our relationship or we're doing things that set it up.

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<v Speaker 3>Little things all the time, all throughout the day that's

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<v Speaker 3>set it up for resentment over time, and it's things

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<v Speaker 3>that we don't think about and we don't catch. But

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<v Speaker 3>if the marriage isn't where it needs to be and

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<v Speaker 3>it's not the priority, then everything that comes underneath that

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<v Speaker 3>umbrella becomes an issue.

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<v Speaker 1>But don't you have to prioritize your kids. They're needy,

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<v Speaker 1>they need you.

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<v Speaker 3>It's not that your children aren't a priority. Of course,

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<v Speaker 3>your children are priority, but they're not the biggest priority.

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<v Speaker 3>I like to say, shit runs downhill. So if the

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<v Speaker 3>marriage relationship is strong, there's friendship, there's support, there's affection,

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<v Speaker 3>there's love, there's togetherness, there's unity and parenting all of

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<v Speaker 3>those things or what you're role modeling for your children. Right,

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<v Speaker 3>So if that's what we're focusing on a lot a

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<v Speaker 3>lot of the time, is making sure that relationship is

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<v Speaker 3>the most healthy, then what your kids begin to see

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<v Speaker 3>is what does it look like, right? What does it

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<v Speaker 3>look like when we have a fight as partners, Well,

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<v Speaker 3>it looks like we scream maybe, and we resolve it

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<v Speaker 3>and our kids get to see how we deal with life,

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<v Speaker 3>even though it's not perfect, how we deal with it together.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, So you're not saying like, if your kids have

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<v Speaker 1>something they need to be at, like you choose a

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<v Speaker 1>date night instead.

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<v Speaker 2>That's not what you're saying.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, No, absolutely not. I'm just saying that the way

0:12:37.640 --> 0:12:40.840
<v Speaker 3>that you connect in your relationship needs to be the

0:12:40.920 --> 0:12:44.160
<v Speaker 3>priority over anything and everything else in your life.

0:12:44.240 --> 0:12:47.840
<v Speaker 4>I love otherwise other therewise there's holes over time.

0:12:48.080 --> 0:12:50.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you said there were three things, and the first

0:12:50.920 --> 0:12:54.560
<v Speaker 2>thing is friendship, which I love, which only in the

0:12:54.559 --> 0:12:57.400
<v Speaker 2>sense that you know this is old news ready, but

0:12:57.440 --> 0:13:00.560
<v Speaker 2>Jeff and I have had after twenty five years in April,

0:13:00.679 --> 0:13:04.920
<v Speaker 2>we've certainly had our ups and our downs and separated

0:13:04.960 --> 0:13:07.280
<v Speaker 2>for a year and a half, and there were infidelities,

0:13:07.320 --> 0:13:09.480
<v Speaker 2>and there have been lots there's lots of stuff, right

0:13:09.559 --> 0:13:12.080
<v Speaker 2>that's packed into that twenty five years. The thing that

0:13:12.120 --> 0:13:15.520
<v Speaker 2>I can say now is that and that I cherish

0:13:15.640 --> 0:13:19.520
<v Speaker 2>the most is the friendship is the and I think

0:13:19.559 --> 0:13:21.880
<v Speaker 2>you said like that feeling of I don't know how

0:13:21.920 --> 0:13:24.480
<v Speaker 2>you said it, but but we're such a team. All

0:13:24.480 --> 0:13:26.720
<v Speaker 2>the other stuff and I don't know what comes after

0:13:26.920 --> 0:13:29.520
<v Speaker 2>the friendship, but to me, that's for me, that's the

0:13:29.559 --> 0:13:32.040
<v Speaker 2>most important part of my relationship. That's the part that

0:13:32.080 --> 0:13:33.720
<v Speaker 2>I really treasure the most.

0:13:34.400 --> 0:13:38.280
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's being allies, being partners, making sure the other

0:13:38.320 --> 0:13:41.560
<v Speaker 3>person knows on a daily basis that they're meaningful, that

0:13:41.600 --> 0:13:44.920
<v Speaker 3>they're important, that they're a priority, right in the little ways,

0:13:45.000 --> 0:13:46.960
<v Speaker 3>not in grand gestures, just in the little things that

0:13:47.000 --> 0:13:49.640
<v Speaker 3>we do that let the other person know that we're

0:13:49.720 --> 0:13:52.600
<v Speaker 3>leaning towards them, you know, throughout the day.

0:13:53.240 --> 0:13:54.800
<v Speaker 2>What was the next thing?

0:13:55.720 --> 0:14:00.360
<v Speaker 3>So the next thing is managing conflict hence communication, learning

0:14:00.360 --> 0:14:01.319
<v Speaker 3>how to fight fairly.

0:14:02.080 --> 0:14:02.240
<v Speaker 1>Right.

0:14:02.360 --> 0:14:05.600
<v Speaker 3>I think we don't know how to listen to each other.

0:14:05.720 --> 0:14:07.800
<v Speaker 3>I think we hear each other, but we don't know

0:14:07.840 --> 0:14:11.800
<v Speaker 3>how to actively listen. And that's a skill, right, learning

0:14:11.880 --> 0:14:13.680
<v Speaker 3>how to talk to someone so they can hear you.

0:14:13.920 --> 0:14:15.679
<v Speaker 1>Okay, But when you get in a fight and it's

0:14:15.720 --> 0:14:19.160
<v Speaker 1>heated a lot of Evan and I get along great,

0:14:19.160 --> 0:14:20.560
<v Speaker 1>but there are times when we just have to walk

0:14:20.560 --> 0:14:21.400
<v Speaker 1>away from each other.

0:14:22.280 --> 0:14:22.680
<v Speaker 4>Mm hmm.

0:14:23.240 --> 0:14:25.520
<v Speaker 2>So what do you do in those kinds of circumstances?

0:14:26.920 --> 0:14:29.720
<v Speaker 3>I mean, I think it's it's learning how to do

0:14:29.800 --> 0:14:33.720
<v Speaker 3>things that are going to promote healthy you know, healthy

0:14:33.760 --> 0:14:37.680
<v Speaker 3>fighting and healthy communication. So the way that you talk

0:14:38.160 --> 0:14:40.720
<v Speaker 3>to somebody you never you know, the way the.

0:14:40.720 --> 0:14:43.520
<v Speaker 4>Choice of words that you use are a big thing.

0:14:43.720 --> 0:14:46.600
<v Speaker 3>We don't think that they are, but all day, every day,

0:14:46.640 --> 0:14:49.360
<v Speaker 3>the choices that we use make people defensive.

0:14:49.440 --> 0:14:50.360
<v Speaker 2>Give us an example.

0:14:51.560 --> 0:14:54.760
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so if you want to say something along the

0:14:54.800 --> 0:14:57.560
<v Speaker 3>lines of why didn't you take out the garbage? You

0:14:57.680 --> 0:14:59.600
<v Speaker 3>never take it out. I always have to do it,

0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:03.000
<v Speaker 3>and you're sitting in my office, I would say to you, Yeah.

0:15:03.080 --> 0:15:05.160
<v Speaker 4>No, that's not a good way to start, right.

0:15:05.360 --> 0:15:08.600
<v Speaker 3>Using a sentence that starts with you is going to

0:15:08.640 --> 0:15:12.680
<v Speaker 3>be me talking about somebody else's behavior and a negative capacity.

0:15:13.040 --> 0:15:16.040
<v Speaker 4>You is the worst word on the planet to ever use.

0:15:16.480 --> 0:15:19.360
<v Speaker 3>Instead, I'm going to say, you know, it's upsetting for

0:15:19.440 --> 0:15:21.960
<v Speaker 3>me when I feel like, you know, we both walk

0:15:22.040 --> 0:15:24.360
<v Speaker 3>by the garbage and it seems like I'm the only

0:15:24.400 --> 0:15:26.280
<v Speaker 3>one that's taking it out, and when that happens, I

0:15:26.280 --> 0:15:30.000
<v Speaker 3>feel frustrated, right as opposed to why don't you ever

0:15:30.040 --> 0:15:33.560
<v Speaker 3>do it? You never take it out? It's so annoying. Yeah,

0:15:33.960 --> 0:15:36.120
<v Speaker 3>very different way of dealing. So it's the way that

0:15:36.160 --> 0:15:41.120
<v Speaker 3>you're speaking, right that helps a conversation and it's also,

0:15:41.160 --> 0:15:44.480
<v Speaker 3>as you said, Jackie, taking those moments where one person

0:15:44.600 --> 0:15:48.320
<v Speaker 3>becomes flooded emotionally in a fight, which means emotionally and

0:15:48.400 --> 0:15:51.320
<v Speaker 3>physically at their fill. Right, So if the other person

0:15:51.360 --> 0:15:54.200
<v Speaker 3>says one more thing to me, I'm going to cut

0:15:54.280 --> 0:15:57.280
<v Speaker 3>runneth over, I'm going to lose my mind. Right, I'm

0:15:57.280 --> 0:15:59.480
<v Speaker 3>gonna scream, I'm gonna walk away, I'm going to do

0:15:59.520 --> 0:16:02.560
<v Speaker 3>whatever they're is. So it's important when one person is

0:16:02.600 --> 0:16:06.760
<v Speaker 3>flooded emotionally to be able to say, hey, I'm at

0:16:06.800 --> 0:16:09.440
<v Speaker 3>my fill. How about we take a twenty minute break

0:16:09.920 --> 0:16:12.520
<v Speaker 3>and go in the other room and calm down, and

0:16:12.560 --> 0:16:15.280
<v Speaker 3>I say, read a magazine because that's the best way

0:16:15.320 --> 0:16:17.720
<v Speaker 3>to get your body chemistry back down to normals. To

0:16:17.800 --> 0:16:20.600
<v Speaker 3>read some piece of crap that means.

0:16:20.360 --> 0:16:23.160
<v Speaker 2>Nothing online or does it have to be like us Weekly?

0:16:23.240 --> 0:16:24.080
<v Speaker 2>Did it be anything?

0:16:25.080 --> 0:16:27.200
<v Speaker 3>It can be anything, but it can't be from a phone.

0:16:27.200 --> 0:16:29.040
<v Speaker 3>It needs to be something that you can pick up.

0:16:29.080 --> 0:16:29.600
<v Speaker 2>Interesting.

0:16:29.920 --> 0:16:36.240
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, And it's the number one intervention for emotionally de escalating.

0:16:36.280 --> 0:16:36.440
<v Speaker 4>You.

0:16:36.800 --> 0:16:41.440
<v Speaker 2>Wow, so interesting. I got to buy in the other room. Yeah.

0:16:41.440 --> 0:16:43.120
<v Speaker 3>You go in the other room for twenty minutes and

0:16:43.120 --> 0:16:45.880
<v Speaker 3>then you come back together and you try to start

0:16:45.920 --> 0:16:48.640
<v Speaker 3>again with an ice statement instead of a youth statement,

0:16:48.840 --> 0:16:51.720
<v Speaker 3>which will immediately begin to change just how the tone

0:16:51.760 --> 0:16:53.040
<v Speaker 3>is of the conversation.

0:16:53.160 --> 0:16:53.880
<v Speaker 4>Does that make sense?

0:16:54.000 --> 0:16:57.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it does. What is the third thing? So we've

0:16:57.320 --> 0:17:01.000
<v Speaker 2>got friendship and communications.

0:17:00.120 --> 0:17:01.800
<v Speaker 4>Conflict, managing conflict.

0:17:01.960 --> 0:17:05.400
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and the most important one to me after friendship, well,

0:17:05.480 --> 0:17:07.720
<v Speaker 3>all of them are important is shared meaning?

0:17:09.000 --> 0:17:09.480
<v Speaker 2>What is that?

0:17:09.600 --> 0:17:14.439
<v Speaker 3>So as a couple, it's how do you dump yourself

0:17:14.960 --> 0:17:19.520
<v Speaker 3>into somebody else's subjective reality. So the things that are

0:17:19.560 --> 0:17:24.080
<v Speaker 3>important to them, their hopes, their dreams, their wishes, they're

0:17:24.240 --> 0:17:25.720
<v Speaker 3>the things that make them.

0:17:25.600 --> 0:17:26.200
<v Speaker 4>Who they are.

0:17:26.480 --> 0:17:29.440
<v Speaker 3>How do you put yourself in that so you can

0:17:29.480 --> 0:17:33.719
<v Speaker 3>create shared meaning together. An example would be one of

0:17:33.720 --> 0:17:37.960
<v Speaker 3>my clients was talking about how she wanted to climb

0:17:38.000 --> 0:17:42.080
<v Speaker 3>on Mount Everest and the husband and was scared of heights.

0:17:42.960 --> 0:17:46.040
<v Speaker 3>So she's like, well, I've been wanting to do this

0:17:46.160 --> 0:17:50.119
<v Speaker 3>my bucket list, it's my dream. So he's petrified, but

0:17:50.200 --> 0:17:52.119
<v Speaker 3>he made a decision to go with her to do

0:17:52.160 --> 0:17:55.080
<v Speaker 3>this as scared as he was, and he did the

0:17:55.080 --> 0:17:56.560
<v Speaker 3>best he could and then stopped.

0:17:56.600 --> 0:17:57.800
<v Speaker 4>They went with a guide.

0:17:57.720 --> 0:18:01.159
<v Speaker 3>And she climbed up higher, so they oienced it something

0:18:01.160 --> 0:18:04.320
<v Speaker 3>that was her dream together and created shared meaning.

0:18:05.119 --> 0:18:06.080
<v Speaker 4>And I think.

0:18:06.359 --> 0:18:08.359
<v Speaker 3>That's the biggest The things that you do on a

0:18:08.440 --> 0:18:12.280
<v Speaker 3>daily basis, the rituals, right, even little things like my

0:18:12.400 --> 0:18:16.760
<v Speaker 3>husband brings me coffee Jeff for you too every morning.

0:18:17.080 --> 0:18:19.120
<v Speaker 3>What are the things that the two of you can

0:18:19.320 --> 0:18:24.120
<v Speaker 3>jump into in each other subjective reality meaning the dreams,

0:18:24.160 --> 0:18:26.399
<v Speaker 3>the hope, the wishes, the things that are important and

0:18:26.520 --> 0:18:28.520
<v Speaker 3>become part of it.

0:18:28.600 --> 0:18:31.600
<v Speaker 4>So funny the growth and sake of the relationship.

0:18:31.640 --> 0:18:33.960
<v Speaker 2>I don't ever ask Jeff what are your Well, that's

0:18:34.000 --> 0:18:36.400
<v Speaker 2>not true. I probably do, and he doesn't answer because

0:18:36.400 --> 0:18:39.199
<v Speaker 2>he's like, I'm working, but when whenever, But he's like, like,

0:18:39.280 --> 0:18:41.280
<v Speaker 2>what do you want? Like moving forward? Like what are

0:18:41.280 --> 0:18:43.679
<v Speaker 2>your We want to do different things when we travel,

0:18:43.720 --> 0:18:46.480
<v Speaker 2>so I personally know and so does See. We push because,

0:18:46.480 --> 0:18:49.320
<v Speaker 2>for instance, Jeff could spend all day long. We're about

0:18:49.320 --> 0:18:51.880
<v Speaker 2>to go to Vietnam. He's going to want to tour

0:18:52.160 --> 0:18:56.399
<v Speaker 2>every historical site, and I more want to see the

0:18:56.440 --> 0:18:58.320
<v Speaker 2>people in the I mean he wants to We want

0:18:58.320 --> 0:19:01.359
<v Speaker 2>to do both, but like I will, I will push myself.

0:19:01.560 --> 0:19:05.560
<v Speaker 2>I don't always, you know, want to see want to

0:19:05.560 --> 0:19:07.879
<v Speaker 2>go to every museum or want to go to every

0:19:08.160 --> 0:19:11.040
<v Speaker 2>monument and that's important him. Sometimes don't. I probably don't

0:19:11.080 --> 0:19:13.119
<v Speaker 2>push hard enough. But I feel like that's what you're saying,

0:19:13.160 --> 0:19:16.240
<v Speaker 2>like to actually, you know, and I and I'm trying

0:19:16.240 --> 0:19:18.000
<v Speaker 2>to think of like do you have anything real life?

0:19:18.080 --> 0:19:20.280
<v Speaker 1>Well, I just wanted to ask so, But it's not

0:19:20.320 --> 0:19:22.600
<v Speaker 1>always an instance like it would be okay if that

0:19:22.800 --> 0:19:26.600
<v Speaker 1>husband said, you know, I'm really scared, I don't want

0:19:26.640 --> 0:19:27.080
<v Speaker 1>to do this.

0:19:27.640 --> 0:19:30.359
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, I hope that you have fun on your own,

0:19:30.480 --> 0:19:32.120
<v Speaker 2>Like is that okay?

0:19:32.760 --> 0:19:36.399
<v Speaker 1>Because there's oftentimes where things that I want to do

0:19:36.440 --> 0:19:39.120
<v Speaker 1>that Evan is just so uninterested in, and I say,

0:19:39.119 --> 0:19:41.600
<v Speaker 1>it's okay, I'll go do it, I'll grab a girlfriend,

0:19:41.760 --> 0:19:44.080
<v Speaker 1>I'll do it, and like we'll do something else together.

0:19:44.240 --> 0:19:45.520
<v Speaker 2>Is that okay to still?

0:19:45.800 --> 0:19:47.520
<v Speaker 4>I mean, I think I think that it's okay.

0:19:47.600 --> 0:19:50.240
<v Speaker 3>I think that you know, we have to compromise and

0:19:50.400 --> 0:19:52.840
<v Speaker 3>pick and shoes. We can't always just do the things

0:19:52.840 --> 0:19:55.560
<v Speaker 3>that we want to do. Sometimes we have to jump

0:19:55.600 --> 0:19:59.040
<v Speaker 3>into somebody else's love or interest because we love them

0:19:59.080 --> 0:20:01.640
<v Speaker 3>and more not about it being about them, but us

0:20:01.680 --> 0:20:06.159
<v Speaker 3>trying to understand who they are right as humans, Like

0:20:06.480 --> 0:20:09.159
<v Speaker 3>what is it about this that's so exciting for you?

0:20:09.280 --> 0:20:12.440
<v Speaker 3>It's like Jennifer learning football right her husband loves football.

0:20:12.800 --> 0:20:15.399
<v Speaker 3>Finally making a decision to say, all right, I've been

0:20:15.400 --> 0:20:17.760
<v Speaker 3>sitting on the couch with be bored on my phone

0:20:17.800 --> 0:20:20.560
<v Speaker 3>for the last twenty years, Right, what can I do?

0:20:20.680 --> 0:20:23.879
<v Speaker 3>What can I do different? Well, huh, maybe someone can

0:20:23.920 --> 0:20:26.520
<v Speaker 3>teach me about football. I might not like it as

0:20:26.560 --> 0:20:29.480
<v Speaker 3>much as Jeff Bessler, but now I actually might be

0:20:29.560 --> 0:20:32.639
<v Speaker 3>able to say, you know what a down is, you know,

0:20:32.760 --> 0:20:35.000
<v Speaker 3>and I might be able to have a conversation about

0:20:35.000 --> 0:20:40.240
<v Speaker 3>a certain correct, there are things things like that, right,

0:20:40.320 --> 0:20:43.400
<v Speaker 3>So not even all the way sharing what we can

0:20:43.560 --> 0:20:47.760
<v Speaker 3>share to become part of the other person's dream and

0:20:48.040 --> 0:20:51.040
<v Speaker 3>subjective reality, the things that are important as part of

0:20:51.080 --> 0:20:51.639
<v Speaker 3>their truth.

0:21:00.119 --> 0:21:02.440
<v Speaker 2>So people, you know, a couple walks through the door

0:21:03.040 --> 0:21:06.000
<v Speaker 2>and launching it to this at the point that they're

0:21:06.040 --> 0:21:08.400
<v Speaker 2>at may not help. Like they're in the midst of

0:21:09.040 --> 0:21:11.720
<v Speaker 2>you know, one of them has had an affair, they've

0:21:11.760 --> 0:21:16.879
<v Speaker 2>been discovered, there's no intimacy left. How do you guide

0:21:16.920 --> 0:21:20.399
<v Speaker 2>people that have grown so far apart? Yeah, like don't you? Oh?

0:21:20.680 --> 0:21:22.600
<v Speaker 1>Like so one part of me is like, of course

0:21:22.640 --> 0:21:25.080
<v Speaker 1>you try to save any way that you can.

0:21:25.119 --> 0:21:27.520
<v Speaker 2>But the other part is like you live once life

0:21:27.640 --> 0:21:27.960
<v Speaker 2>is sure.

0:21:28.080 --> 0:21:29.800
<v Speaker 1>You owe it to yourself to be with a partner

0:21:29.800 --> 0:21:31.760
<v Speaker 1>who really makes you happy.

0:21:32.040 --> 0:21:32.800
<v Speaker 2>Where's the line?

0:21:32.920 --> 0:21:34.800
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, okay.

0:21:34.840 --> 0:21:37.320
<v Speaker 3>So I think that when people come in, there's two

0:21:37.359 --> 0:21:40.840
<v Speaker 3>things that I try to really teach them. One is,

0:21:41.840 --> 0:21:45.920
<v Speaker 3>are you here unconditionally meaning we got married for better

0:21:46.000 --> 0:21:48.720
<v Speaker 3>or for worse, come what may, and no mat matter

0:21:48.840 --> 0:21:50.280
<v Speaker 3>what happens, that's.

0:21:50.119 --> 0:21:51.720
<v Speaker 4>Our goal to figure it out.

0:21:52.080 --> 0:21:55.080
<v Speaker 3>Or I married you and it's conditional, meaning that if

0:21:55.119 --> 0:21:58.280
<v Speaker 3>I'd a part in my life where I'm different, I've

0:21:58.320 --> 0:22:00.320
<v Speaker 3>grown out of it, I'm unsure.

0:22:00.800 --> 0:22:03.160
<v Speaker 4>Then I need to figure out, you know, kind of

0:22:03.200 --> 0:22:03.800
<v Speaker 4>where I am.

0:22:03.960 --> 0:22:07.320
<v Speaker 3>So if two people come in and they're both unconditional, great,

0:22:07.359 --> 0:22:09.679
<v Speaker 3>they're both conditional I can still work with because it

0:22:09.720 --> 0:22:13.280
<v Speaker 3>means there's hope there. If one's unconditional and one's conditional,

0:22:14.280 --> 0:22:15.919
<v Speaker 3>I tell them they need to go home and have

0:22:15.960 --> 0:22:16.600
<v Speaker 3>a conversation.

0:22:17.320 --> 0:22:19.240
<v Speaker 2>So like, what do you mean? So like if they

0:22:19.280 --> 0:22:22.680
<v Speaker 2>both come in and one says, no, matter what you do, asshole,

0:22:22.720 --> 0:22:24.720
<v Speaker 2>I'm sticking by you. I want to stay married to you,

0:22:24.760 --> 0:22:26.960
<v Speaker 2>and I want this, you know, until the end of time,

0:22:27.000 --> 0:22:30.040
<v Speaker 2>and the other says, well, I don't really feel it,

0:22:30.119 --> 0:22:32.439
<v Speaker 2>and if things don't change, I'm out. That's when you

0:22:32.440 --> 0:22:34.720
<v Speaker 2>know it's over. Is that what you're saying that?

0:22:35.320 --> 0:22:37.119
<v Speaker 3>And then the other thing is if I say to

0:22:37.200 --> 0:22:41.520
<v Speaker 3>one one of the clients, tell me something good about

0:22:41.560 --> 0:22:44.600
<v Speaker 3>your significant other, tell me something good. If you can't

0:22:44.640 --> 0:22:47.879
<v Speaker 3>tell me anything good about your significant other, then you

0:22:47.920 --> 0:22:51.400
<v Speaker 3>need to go home and have a conversation, because that

0:22:51.480 --> 0:22:54.560
<v Speaker 3>means we're at the time where there's just contempt. And

0:22:54.640 --> 0:22:57.160
<v Speaker 3>if we're at a place of contempt, then we really

0:22:57.240 --> 0:22:58.040
<v Speaker 3>need to reevaluate.

0:22:58.080 --> 0:23:00.440
<v Speaker 2>And you can't help at that point.

0:23:01.600 --> 0:23:04.680
<v Speaker 3>If someone says to me that if they can't find

0:23:04.720 --> 0:23:08.240
<v Speaker 3>something good about their partner, then I'm not one of

0:23:08.240 --> 0:23:10.880
<v Speaker 3>those people that's going to try to create something where

0:23:10.880 --> 0:23:11.720
<v Speaker 3>there's nothing left.

0:23:11.840 --> 0:23:13.680
<v Speaker 4>Okay, so other therapist, cool.

0:23:14.040 --> 0:23:16.120
<v Speaker 1>Here's a question. If you have all of those things,

0:23:16.160 --> 0:23:20.280
<v Speaker 1>you have what seems to you to be a great marriage,

0:23:20.320 --> 0:23:25.959
<v Speaker 1>the friendship, the intimacy, all of it communication, Is it

0:23:26.040 --> 0:23:31.640
<v Speaker 1>possible that one person just falls for someone else? Can

0:23:31.680 --> 0:23:33.360
<v Speaker 1>that still happen even with everything?

0:23:35.119 --> 0:23:35.359
<v Speaker 4>Yeah?

0:23:35.400 --> 0:23:37.760
<v Speaker 3>I think, Look, it depends on how much we're nurturing

0:23:37.800 --> 0:23:38.520
<v Speaker 3>the relationship.

0:23:38.640 --> 0:23:38.800
<v Speaker 2>Right.

0:23:38.840 --> 0:23:41.560
<v Speaker 3>We can have a good relationship just day in day

0:23:41.600 --> 0:23:43.800
<v Speaker 3>out and we're just not fighting, and we would just

0:23:43.920 --> 0:23:47.680
<v Speaker 3>have you know we have a good marriage. There's another part,

0:23:47.840 --> 0:23:50.600
<v Speaker 3>are we nurturing it or are we not and nurturing

0:23:50.600 --> 0:23:52.520
<v Speaker 3>it is more about the things that I'm talking about

0:23:52.520 --> 0:23:55.760
<v Speaker 3>with the shared meaning. People do end up having affairs

0:23:55.840 --> 0:23:59.920
<v Speaker 3>for many different reasons, which also makes a couples count

0:24:00.080 --> 0:24:02.399
<v Speaker 3>think very difficult. Right, So there's two things that make

0:24:02.440 --> 0:24:05.719
<v Speaker 3>it difficult, and an abusive relationship and an affair.

0:24:06.640 --> 0:24:09.160
<v Speaker 4>Those are the two things that are very very difficult

0:24:09.359 --> 0:24:10.479
<v Speaker 4>to do with well.

0:24:10.520 --> 0:24:13.440
<v Speaker 1>In abusive relationship, I would never advocate anybody going back

0:24:13.480 --> 0:24:15.680
<v Speaker 1>to but an affair, and I think Jen and I

0:24:15.720 --> 0:24:18.119
<v Speaker 1>sit very differently on this because I have no experience

0:24:18.200 --> 0:24:18.439
<v Speaker 1>with it.

0:24:18.520 --> 0:24:19.800
<v Speaker 2>But can you ever.

0:24:19.680 --> 0:24:21.920
<v Speaker 1>Fully get the trust back? Like do you fully fully

0:24:22.000 --> 0:24:23.280
<v Speaker 1>trust your partner?

0:24:23.800 --> 0:24:25.600
<v Speaker 2>Listen, I don't know. I can't answer that in a

0:24:25.640 --> 0:24:28.439
<v Speaker 2>global sense. Do I trust Jeffessler one hundred percent? Yes,

0:24:29.000 --> 0:24:34.960
<v Speaker 2>I do? And more than that, Like it's so I

0:24:34.960 --> 0:24:37.280
<v Speaker 2>don't even think about it. It's just the last thing

0:24:37.840 --> 0:24:41.280
<v Speaker 2>on my mind, you know, I don't. It's not like

0:24:41.320 --> 0:24:45.200
<v Speaker 2>I'm maybe back in the day it happened. The infidelities

0:24:45.640 --> 0:24:48.159
<v Speaker 2>both of ours have been so long ago, and I

0:24:48.200 --> 0:24:52.240
<v Speaker 2>guess for years afterwards, I was, you know, suspicious looking

0:24:52.320 --> 0:24:55.239
<v Speaker 2>at the phone or questioning, and I just know I

0:24:55.280 --> 0:24:57.320
<v Speaker 2>don't ever even think about it.

0:24:57.400 --> 0:25:00.080
<v Speaker 3>I don't, but I think what Jackie said, I think

0:25:00.080 --> 0:25:02.399
<v Speaker 3>there are people that can't let it go for sure.

0:25:03.000 --> 0:25:05.679
<v Speaker 3>So you know, in counseling, I'll take a look at

0:25:05.680 --> 0:25:08.000
<v Speaker 3>I'll have an individual session. If there was an affair

0:25:08.680 --> 0:25:10.399
<v Speaker 3>and the person who had the affair, I'm going to

0:25:10.480 --> 0:25:12.720
<v Speaker 3>ask them straight out if you need to tell the

0:25:12.760 --> 0:25:16.160
<v Speaker 3>truth right there cannot be any more secrets end of it.

0:25:16.920 --> 0:25:21.200
<v Speaker 3>So if you're not willing to tell the truth to

0:25:21.840 --> 0:25:25.240
<v Speaker 3>the partner, I mean to your partner, to me and

0:25:25.359 --> 0:25:28.040
<v Speaker 3>to the partner, but I meet it individually, so this person,

0:25:28.200 --> 0:25:32.239
<v Speaker 3>you know, the partner will know where I stand on this,

0:25:32.440 --> 0:25:35.320
<v Speaker 3>that the truth has to happen and the secrets have

0:25:35.480 --> 0:25:39.440
<v Speaker 3>to be finished, and that the things that are discussed

0:25:39.480 --> 0:25:43.680
<v Speaker 3>in terms of an affair are discussed. Everything that that

0:25:43.920 --> 0:25:48.679
<v Speaker 3>the person who was this was done to, Everything is

0:25:48.720 --> 0:25:51.640
<v Speaker 3>asked except the specifics of what happened in the bedroom.

0:25:51.800 --> 0:25:53.760
<v Speaker 3>We all know what happens in the bedroom, right, We

0:25:53.800 --> 0:25:57.000
<v Speaker 3>don't need to have a conversation in therapy about what

0:25:57.080 --> 0:26:01.760
<v Speaker 3>happens in the bedroom. We know out side of that

0:26:01.760 --> 0:26:05.480
<v Speaker 3>that person engaged in this behavior and the person who

0:26:05.560 --> 0:26:09.960
<v Speaker 3>has been devastated deserves The answer is without secrets.

0:26:10.040 --> 0:26:12.679
<v Speaker 1>So is it a different counseling session if there was

0:26:12.800 --> 0:26:16.359
<v Speaker 1>an emotional attachment versus just more about the sex.

0:26:18.480 --> 0:26:21.200
<v Speaker 3>No, I think it's the same thing in terms of

0:26:21.240 --> 0:26:22.720
<v Speaker 3>what in terms of being the truth?

0:26:23.280 --> 0:26:24.240
<v Speaker 4>Right, what's the truth?

0:26:24.880 --> 0:26:27.320
<v Speaker 3>We're not going to have secrets in our marriage and

0:26:27.400 --> 0:26:30.640
<v Speaker 3>it's going to continue to come up over time, right

0:26:30.800 --> 0:26:33.520
<v Speaker 3>until there is trust that's built back, and trust is

0:26:33.560 --> 0:26:37.800
<v Speaker 3>built back by acting remorsefully and understanding what the other

0:26:37.840 --> 0:26:40.520
<v Speaker 3>person needs. And remorse is an action. It's not something

0:26:40.520 --> 0:26:42.480
<v Speaker 3>we say, it's something we do and how we behave.

0:26:42.680 --> 0:26:44.400
<v Speaker 2>Am I an enigma? Rob? Do you think, like how

0:26:44.400 --> 0:26:47.360
<v Speaker 2>many of the people that you counsel that where there's infidelity,

0:26:47.440 --> 0:26:51.080
<v Speaker 2>how many of them do make the marriage last and

0:26:51.520 --> 0:26:52.800
<v Speaker 2>you know, fix it?

0:26:53.920 --> 0:26:57.360
<v Speaker 3>I mean I don't really have you know, a percentage.

0:26:57.720 --> 0:27:00.359
<v Speaker 3>It's really about what's reported and who continue used to

0:27:00.400 --> 0:27:00.840
<v Speaker 3>come back.

0:27:00.960 --> 0:27:04.399
<v Speaker 2>You're not because Jennifer Aiden's marriage is fine? No, I

0:27:04.400 --> 0:27:06.600
<v Speaker 2>don't mean. The only one I'm just saying is it rare?

0:27:06.920 --> 0:27:08.480
<v Speaker 2>Is it really rare to be able to come back

0:27:08.560 --> 0:27:11.680
<v Speaker 2>from infidelity? I mean, I can say, like, I have

0:27:11.760 --> 0:27:14.680
<v Speaker 2>a lot a lot of friends who are divorced and

0:27:15.359 --> 0:27:19.520
<v Speaker 2>who have you know been either you know, the cheaer

0:27:19.680 --> 0:27:23.440
<v Speaker 2>or the one that was cheated on, and so it's

0:27:23.520 --> 0:27:27.240
<v Speaker 2>I don't see that much although maybe nobody, not a

0:27:27.240 --> 0:27:28.840
<v Speaker 2>lot of people tell me, but there's not often that

0:27:28.880 --> 0:27:31.640
<v Speaker 2>bounce back of Okay, we survived it, we're back together at.

0:27:31.600 --> 0:27:33.000
<v Speaker 4>Least, you know what I actually do.

0:27:33.480 --> 0:27:37.760
<v Speaker 3>I think people that are committed because of the reasons

0:27:37.760 --> 0:27:40.119
<v Speaker 3>that I said before, all the other things Jackie you

0:27:40.240 --> 0:27:42.919
<v Speaker 3>brought up, I think that if people are committed, I

0:27:42.920 --> 0:27:46.360
<v Speaker 3>think there is and invested in doing the work outside

0:27:46.400 --> 0:27:48.560
<v Speaker 3>of therapy as well, because that's where most of the

0:27:48.560 --> 0:27:50.800
<v Speaker 3>work happens. Right you're with a therapist for an hour,

0:27:51.320 --> 0:27:54.399
<v Speaker 3>and you're both committed to coming and doing what's suggested.

0:27:54.800 --> 0:27:55.760
<v Speaker 4>I do think I have.

0:27:55.880 --> 0:27:58.400
<v Speaker 3>I can think of, just off the top of my head,

0:27:58.440 --> 0:28:01.040
<v Speaker 3>five or six couples that had eat their emotional affairs

0:28:01.200 --> 0:28:04.800
<v Speaker 3>Jackie asked, or affairs, and they're together, two of whom

0:28:04.800 --> 0:28:06.879
<v Speaker 3>have had children since they started coming to me.

0:28:08.560 --> 0:28:09.440
<v Speaker 4>So I do.

0:28:09.520 --> 0:28:13.080
<v Speaker 3>I think it's really more about how invested are we

0:28:13.200 --> 0:28:16.240
<v Speaker 3>and how are we working on the things in the

0:28:16.280 --> 0:28:20.199
<v Speaker 3>marriage that help us to get to that place of

0:28:20.240 --> 0:28:24.480
<v Speaker 3>earning back the trust right and in the relationship over time,

0:28:24.600 --> 0:28:25.000
<v Speaker 3>and it's.

0:28:24.880 --> 0:28:27.440
<v Speaker 2>Got to be I don't know if this is this

0:28:27.560 --> 0:28:30.720
<v Speaker 2>is the truth or just the way. I don't really know,

0:28:30.760 --> 0:28:33.600
<v Speaker 2>but it feels to me like if we hadn't been

0:28:33.640 --> 0:28:36.600
<v Speaker 2>through that and it was a long time ago, I

0:28:36.600 --> 0:28:38.960
<v Speaker 2>don't know that we would be where we are today.

0:28:39.000 --> 0:28:43.480
<v Speaker 2>I would not recommend I'm not advocating for infidelity, really

0:28:43.520 --> 0:28:46.520
<v Speaker 2>I'm not, but I just think to myself, I still

0:28:46.560 --> 0:28:52.880
<v Speaker 2>have this like there's this pervasive feeling that I'm lucky,

0:28:53.000 --> 0:28:56.320
<v Speaker 2>you know, not just because I got we got back together.

0:28:56.840 --> 0:28:58.560
<v Speaker 2>There are a lot of reasons why I feel blessed

0:28:58.600 --> 0:29:01.720
<v Speaker 2>and that I have so much gratitude, But I feel

0:29:01.720 --> 0:29:05.360
<v Speaker 2>like we don't take each other for granted like we

0:29:05.400 --> 0:29:08.520
<v Speaker 2>did at the beginning of our marriage. It's not, you know,

0:29:08.560 --> 0:29:09.680
<v Speaker 2>it's it's not a given.

0:29:10.880 --> 0:29:13.240
<v Speaker 1>Yep, that's not Can I ask you a question just

0:29:13.280 --> 0:29:17.640
<v Speaker 1>some other things that in doing our research, we saw

0:29:17.680 --> 0:29:21.200
<v Speaker 1>that it said finances, we're the biggest cause of stress

0:29:21.320 --> 0:29:22.400
<v Speaker 1>in a relationship.

0:29:22.880 --> 0:29:25.000
<v Speaker 2>So but what can you do about that?

0:29:25.080 --> 0:29:27.239
<v Speaker 1>I mean, and do you advise women to have their

0:29:27.280 --> 0:29:29.280
<v Speaker 1>own money and their own bank accounts.

0:29:31.200 --> 0:29:33.520
<v Speaker 3>I really think it just it depends on the dynamic

0:29:33.560 --> 0:29:36.280
<v Speaker 3>of the relationship. What I've actually found is most people

0:29:36.320 --> 0:29:39.840
<v Speaker 3>that are married first marriage, they have joint.

0:29:39.560 --> 0:29:42.160
<v Speaker 4>Accounts, interestingly enough, and then.

0:29:42.160 --> 0:29:45.040
<v Speaker 3>Most people that are on their second, third, eighteenth marriage,

0:29:45.200 --> 0:29:48.719
<v Speaker 3>they usually have their own right. So now they've figured

0:29:48.720 --> 0:29:53.880
<v Speaker 3>out for household expenses they usually have shared and for

0:29:53.960 --> 0:29:57.200
<v Speaker 3>everything else they keep separate. And that's what I've seen

0:29:57.240 --> 0:29:59.680
<v Speaker 3>the majority. I'm not sure why, Jackie. I don't know

0:29:59.720 --> 0:30:01.959
<v Speaker 3>if it's just the first time around, maybe it's just

0:30:02.040 --> 0:30:02.560
<v Speaker 3>do I think.

0:30:02.400 --> 0:30:04.320
<v Speaker 2>It's because they maybe want to protect if they have kids,

0:30:04.320 --> 0:30:06.360
<v Speaker 2>they want to protect the kids right.

0:30:06.280 --> 0:30:08.960
<v Speaker 3>Right, if they have divorce, if they get divorced second

0:30:09.000 --> 0:30:11.200
<v Speaker 3>time around, whatever, they have separate accounts.

0:30:11.240 --> 0:30:13.920
<v Speaker 4>Whatever it might be. But I don't think there's anything

0:30:13.960 --> 0:30:16.360
<v Speaker 4>wrong with it. I think everything is worthy of a discussion.

0:30:16.600 --> 0:30:17.760
<v Speaker 2>Okay, a discussion.

0:30:17.960 --> 0:30:21.120
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, what about relatives? Like extended families cause a lot

0:30:21.120 --> 0:30:22.960
<v Speaker 1>of problems. What do you do about that? Because you

0:30:22.960 --> 0:30:25.200
<v Speaker 1>can't just cut off your family, Like, what do you

0:30:25.240 --> 0:30:27.160
<v Speaker 1>do about like mother in laws. I have a wonderful

0:30:27.200 --> 0:30:28.520
<v Speaker 1>mother in law, but what do you do with a

0:30:28.520 --> 0:30:32.960
<v Speaker 1>mother in law that like just won't stop interfering or

0:30:33.000 --> 0:30:33.840
<v Speaker 1>in laws in generating.

0:30:34.840 --> 0:30:38.920
<v Speaker 3>I think it's important to first talk it out together.

0:30:39.000 --> 0:30:41.800
<v Speaker 3>What are the things that are important, you know, husband

0:30:41.840 --> 0:30:46.000
<v Speaker 3>and wife in terms of are boundaries and interference right,

0:30:46.120 --> 0:30:48.520
<v Speaker 3>what is the most upsetting? Are we listening to each

0:30:48.520 --> 0:30:51.120
<v Speaker 3>other about the things that we really need and the

0:30:51.160 --> 0:30:54.920
<v Speaker 3>things that upset us or get disrupted by family? And

0:30:55.000 --> 0:30:57.200
<v Speaker 3>a lot of the time it's an inability based on

0:30:57.240 --> 0:31:00.600
<v Speaker 3>a history to set boundaries right with our parents, whether

0:31:00.640 --> 0:31:03.680
<v Speaker 3>it's due to guilt, whether it's because they've been there

0:31:03.680 --> 0:31:06.480
<v Speaker 3>for us our whole lives, whether it's because there's a

0:31:06.560 --> 0:31:10.360
<v Speaker 3>dynamic that's happened since childhood that prevents them from setting

0:31:10.440 --> 0:31:13.360
<v Speaker 3>up boundaries. So I think again, it's always going to

0:31:13.400 --> 0:31:16.240
<v Speaker 3>be about a conversation. It's always going to be about

0:31:16.760 --> 0:31:19.440
<v Speaker 3>how do we compromise on the things that are important

0:31:19.520 --> 0:31:21.840
<v Speaker 3>to each of us when it comes to family members,

0:31:22.240 --> 0:31:24.239
<v Speaker 3>So how do we stick up a boundary. Maybe it's

0:31:24.280 --> 0:31:27.120
<v Speaker 3>a family that walks in without knocking, right, they just

0:31:27.160 --> 0:31:30.160
<v Speaker 3>come over, Then there needs to be a conversation. If

0:31:30.200 --> 0:31:33.600
<v Speaker 3>that's very disruptive to me and not to my husband,

0:31:34.280 --> 0:31:36.720
<v Speaker 3>then I need to have a conversation. And the hope

0:31:36.720 --> 0:31:39.800
<v Speaker 3>would be that depending on the dynamic, that one of

0:31:39.840 --> 0:31:43.239
<v Speaker 3>us would have a conversation and start with validating and

0:31:43.280 --> 0:31:46.880
<v Speaker 3>supporting the family. We love you so much, you know,

0:31:46.960 --> 0:31:49.960
<v Speaker 3>we love having you come to our house, the kids.

0:31:50.040 --> 0:31:52.520
<v Speaker 3>It makes the kids so happy, It makes us so happy.

0:31:52.920 --> 0:31:54.960
<v Speaker 3>But sometimes it's hard for us when there's just a

0:31:55.080 --> 0:31:57.040
<v Speaker 3>drop in because we have a lot of things going

0:31:57.080 --> 0:31:59.560
<v Speaker 3>on and as much you know, we love, love, love

0:31:59.600 --> 0:32:02.600
<v Speaker 3>having here. But we would so appreciate if you were,

0:32:02.680 --> 0:32:04.600
<v Speaker 3>you know, to get a phone call before you come,

0:32:04.720 --> 0:32:06.480
<v Speaker 3>just so we can make sure we're dressed and the

0:32:06.560 --> 0:32:09.920
<v Speaker 3>kids are you know, we're ready or whatever it might be.

0:32:10.040 --> 0:32:12.040
<v Speaker 4>It just it makes it easier for us.

0:32:12.080 --> 0:32:15.320
<v Speaker 3>So again, talking for you, Jackie, about what you need

0:32:15.720 --> 0:32:18.560
<v Speaker 3>instead of what the extended family or the you know,

0:32:18.640 --> 0:32:23.640
<v Speaker 3>the family members are doing to you anything, y Right,

0:32:24.440 --> 0:32:26.400
<v Speaker 3>it's what do we need to make.

0:32:26.320 --> 0:32:27.200
<v Speaker 4>Us feel okay?

0:32:27.480 --> 0:32:29.920
<v Speaker 3>And how can we validate and support the people that

0:32:29.960 --> 0:32:33.280
<v Speaker 3>we love while trying to put up the boundary that says, hey,

0:32:33.680 --> 0:32:36.680
<v Speaker 3>it's important to me that we get knocks on the

0:32:36.720 --> 0:32:38.760
<v Speaker 3>door before people come over because it just kind of

0:32:38.760 --> 0:32:39.480
<v Speaker 3>freaks me out.

0:32:39.560 --> 0:32:40.760
<v Speaker 4>So we'd really appreciate it.

0:32:40.960 --> 0:32:43.680
<v Speaker 1>Right, So instead of attacking the other person, or what

0:32:43.720 --> 0:32:44.560
<v Speaker 1>other people are doing.

0:32:44.560 --> 0:32:47.040
<v Speaker 2>You make it more about your needs. I love that. Yeah,

0:32:47.080 --> 0:32:51.080
<v Speaker 2>also Rob women around our age, Jackie, not you yet,

0:32:51.080 --> 0:32:56.040
<v Speaker 2>but Robin, you and me? So the empty nest thing, right, So,

0:32:57.440 --> 0:32:59.640
<v Speaker 2>I'm sure a lot of couples that you work with,

0:33:00.320 --> 0:33:03.600
<v Speaker 2>probably the kids leave and what's left now? Right when

0:33:03.760 --> 0:33:08.240
<v Speaker 2>when they've devoted so much time and effort to the kids,

0:33:08.400 --> 0:33:10.120
<v Speaker 2>And is it do you find a lot of that

0:33:10.240 --> 0:33:14.280
<v Speaker 2>couple struggling to reconnect after the kids are gone?

0:33:16.880 --> 0:33:17.120
<v Speaker 4>You know?

0:33:17.200 --> 0:33:21.480
<v Speaker 3>I think it really depends on the dynamic throughout in

0:33:21.560 --> 0:33:22.440
<v Speaker 3>the relationship.

0:33:22.560 --> 0:33:23.360
<v Speaker 4>You know, I don't.

0:33:24.560 --> 0:33:27.600
<v Speaker 3>I do see it, but I don't know it's interesting enough.

0:33:27.680 --> 0:33:29.880
<v Speaker 3>I don't know if I see it as much as

0:33:29.920 --> 0:33:32.880
<v Speaker 3>I thought I would see it. I think there's a

0:33:32.960 --> 0:33:35.880
<v Speaker 3>rekindling a lot of the time, or maybe that's the

0:33:35.920 --> 0:33:38.760
<v Speaker 3>time where couples do come in and want to work

0:33:38.800 --> 0:33:42.600
<v Speaker 3>on their relationship because they feel like they they put

0:33:42.640 --> 0:33:43.600
<v Speaker 3>it on the back burner.

0:33:43.840 --> 0:33:46.920
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I hear that, right, that they put their.

0:33:46.800 --> 0:33:49.760
<v Speaker 3>Relationship on the back burner as secondary to the children.

0:33:49.920 --> 0:33:50.040
<v Speaker 1>Right.

0:33:50.120 --> 0:33:53.160
<v Speaker 3>And that's where I try to change the dynamic. Like

0:33:53.200 --> 0:33:55.000
<v Speaker 3>I said at the beginning, Oh no, no, no, no, no,

0:33:55.320 --> 0:33:57.120
<v Speaker 3>you need to be as much of a priority as

0:33:57.400 --> 0:34:00.800
<v Speaker 3>as your children. Otherwise you do end up with that. Now,

0:34:00.840 --> 0:34:08.200
<v Speaker 3>where are we after the kids are gone?

0:34:10.520 --> 0:34:13.840
<v Speaker 2>So this is just a little funny anecdote. But years

0:34:13.840 --> 0:34:16.840
<v Speaker 2>and years ago, Rachel, my daughter was I don't know

0:34:16.840 --> 0:34:18.600
<v Speaker 2>how she was. She's a little girl, not little little,

0:34:18.600 --> 0:34:21.080
<v Speaker 2>but little whatever. Maybe she was twelve, I don't know.

0:34:21.520 --> 0:34:26.960
<v Speaker 2>But she said to me, who do you love the

0:34:27.000 --> 0:34:31.560
<v Speaker 2>most in the world? And maybe she was younger, I

0:34:31.600 --> 0:34:34.640
<v Speaker 2>can't whatever. I don't remember anything anymore, but but I

0:34:34.680 --> 0:34:36.359
<v Speaker 2>remember she said it to me. And I was very

0:34:36.400 --> 0:34:39.279
<v Speaker 2>conscious when I said to her, I want because I

0:34:39.280 --> 0:34:42.120
<v Speaker 2>thought I want her to feel safe, right, And I

0:34:42.160 --> 0:34:45.719
<v Speaker 2>said I love Daddy the most, which is a big Obviously,

0:34:45.760 --> 0:34:47.960
<v Speaker 2>I think I made a big mistake. But I did it.

0:34:48.200 --> 0:34:52.920
<v Speaker 2>I did it very I did. I made it. I

0:34:53.000 --> 0:34:56.960
<v Speaker 2>made it very like purposely because I thought for I

0:34:56.960 --> 0:34:58.399
<v Speaker 2>don't know why I would think that that that would

0:34:58.440 --> 0:35:01.840
<v Speaker 2>just make her feel like mommy and Daddy. You know,

0:35:02.360 --> 0:35:06.799
<v Speaker 2>I don't know what secure right. Anyway, she had a fit.

0:35:07.040 --> 0:35:10.759
<v Speaker 2>She bitched, such a fit, the screaming exact Zack, do

0:35:10.840 --> 0:35:12.920
<v Speaker 2>you do that? Oh my god, you see Rachel doing that?

0:35:13.320 --> 0:35:15.360
<v Speaker 2>You know what, Mab We just said, she said he

0:35:15.440 --> 0:35:18.840
<v Speaker 2>loves daddy bust. It was insane, and then I'm like

0:35:18.840 --> 0:35:20.680
<v Speaker 2>trying to backtrack. I'm like, no, I just said that.

0:35:20.800 --> 0:35:23.640
<v Speaker 2>I don't really mean it, Rach. I love you guys

0:35:23.760 --> 0:35:24.360
<v Speaker 2>the most.

0:35:25.400 --> 0:35:28.360
<v Speaker 4>There's some good role modeling, Jenny, right, yes.

0:35:28.000 --> 0:35:32.200
<v Speaker 2>Exactly, but like you know that sort of like prioritizing

0:35:33.040 --> 0:35:36.000
<v Speaker 2>the kids, I would think should see you prioritize you

0:35:36.040 --> 0:35:39.960
<v Speaker 2>know your partner absolutely to be more than even not

0:35:40.040 --> 0:35:40.480
<v Speaker 2>more than that.

0:35:40.600 --> 0:35:42.239
<v Speaker 4>What do you want them to learn? What do you

0:35:42.280 --> 0:35:44.479
<v Speaker 4>want them to learn? I want them to learn love.

0:35:44.760 --> 0:35:46.759
<v Speaker 4>You want them to learn partnership. You want them to

0:35:46.800 --> 0:35:49.960
<v Speaker 4>learn friendship, you want them to learn togetheredness. Everything that

0:35:50.040 --> 0:35:52.520
<v Speaker 4>I started with this at the beginning is what you're

0:35:52.600 --> 0:35:54.000
<v Speaker 4>role modeling on a daily basis.

0:35:54.000 --> 0:35:55.759
<v Speaker 2>And we did not always do a great job of that.

0:35:55.880 --> 0:35:57.560
<v Speaker 2>But you know, well, now they're out of the house,

0:35:57.560 --> 0:35:58.920
<v Speaker 2>we're doing a really good job of it.

0:35:59.320 --> 0:36:02.120
<v Speaker 1>Well my kids are, and they don't love when we

0:36:02.200 --> 0:36:04.320
<v Speaker 1>go out, and I like to go out fairly often,

0:36:04.840 --> 0:36:06.680
<v Speaker 1>and I think it's a good thing, yeah, for them

0:36:06.719 --> 0:36:08.239
<v Speaker 1>to watch us, because I don't want them to grow

0:36:08.320 --> 0:36:10.240
<v Speaker 1>up and think that you have to devote your entire

0:36:10.320 --> 0:36:12.399
<v Speaker 1>life to just staying home with your kids. I mean,

0:36:12.440 --> 0:36:15.080
<v Speaker 1>of course you have to prioritize your children, but I

0:36:15.080 --> 0:36:16.360
<v Speaker 1>don't want them to just sit.

0:36:16.239 --> 0:36:18.960
<v Speaker 2>Home, yeah with their kids. Yeah, No, I mean I

0:36:19.000 --> 0:36:19.399
<v Speaker 2>think of.

0:36:21.000 --> 0:36:21.680
<v Speaker 4>I was just going to say.

0:36:21.719 --> 0:36:26.000
<v Speaker 3>The other thing is I hear literally daily, I hear

0:36:26.200 --> 0:36:28.719
<v Speaker 3>when there's our problems in the marriage and people are

0:36:28.840 --> 0:36:31.439
<v Speaker 3>at the verge of divorcing or feeling that they want

0:36:31.480 --> 0:36:32.920
<v Speaker 3>to do something different.

0:36:32.840 --> 0:36:36.919
<v Speaker 4>To staying in the marriage for the children. I hear

0:36:37.120 --> 0:36:38.399
<v Speaker 4>every day all day.

0:36:38.719 --> 0:36:39.879
<v Speaker 2>And when do you think if.

0:36:39.800 --> 0:36:42.399
<v Speaker 3>They're older, when the kids are older, right when they

0:36:42.400 --> 0:36:45.279
<v Speaker 3>go to college, then we'll reevaluate. But right now, we

0:36:45.320 --> 0:36:46.919
<v Speaker 3>don't want to do that to the kids. We don't

0:36:46.920 --> 0:36:48.160
<v Speaker 3>want to separate from the kids.

0:36:48.320 --> 0:36:49.080
<v Speaker 2>What do you think of that?

0:36:51.600 --> 0:36:55.719
<v Speaker 3>I mean, I always tell people that you can't be

0:36:55.760 --> 0:36:58.640
<v Speaker 3>in a marriage for your children. You're wasting a lot

0:36:58.640 --> 0:37:00.560
<v Speaker 3>of years. You got to look at your own happiness

0:37:02.120 --> 0:37:04.239
<v Speaker 3>and you stay in a marriage for the things that

0:37:04.280 --> 0:37:06.680
<v Speaker 3>you get from it. You don't stay in a marriage

0:37:06.680 --> 0:37:08.360
<v Speaker 3>for the things that you're fearful of losing.

0:37:09.520 --> 0:37:14.560
<v Speaker 2>Wow, I love that. I mean, I I just picturing

0:37:14.560 --> 0:37:19.280
<v Speaker 2>scenarios where it is, you know, unhealthy for the kids

0:37:19.320 --> 0:37:21.239
<v Speaker 2>to separate. I would think that is you have to

0:37:21.239 --> 0:37:25.920
<v Speaker 2>prioritize that at some level, like even if you can coexist,

0:37:26.600 --> 0:37:30.279
<v Speaker 2>then isn't that better for the kids then you know,

0:37:31.080 --> 0:37:32.680
<v Speaker 2>a separated household.

0:37:33.520 --> 0:37:35.720
<v Speaker 4>But I don't. I mean, again, I don't agree. Where's

0:37:35.760 --> 0:37:38.760
<v Speaker 4>the role modeling? Then? What role modeling are you teaching

0:37:38.760 --> 0:37:40.239
<v Speaker 4>your children at that point?

0:37:40.440 --> 0:37:43.600
<v Speaker 1>I mean a lot of friends in unhappy marriages that

0:37:43.719 --> 0:37:46.160
<v Speaker 1>just stay because the whole idea of being single again

0:37:46.719 --> 0:37:50.960
<v Speaker 1>and living alone and honestly not seeing your kids all

0:37:51.000 --> 0:37:55.080
<v Speaker 1>the time is completely overwhelming, and staying together in an

0:37:55.200 --> 0:37:58.200
<v Speaker 1>unhappy relationship is just so much easier.

0:37:58.480 --> 0:37:58.840
<v Speaker 4>People.

0:37:59.160 --> 0:38:04.239
<v Speaker 1>I've heard quite often people say all men cheap. I

0:38:04.360 --> 0:38:07.640
<v Speaker 1>happen to not think that's true, but realistically.

0:38:07.719 --> 0:38:10.879
<v Speaker 2>Not everyone gets caught. How many relationships do you think

0:38:10.880 --> 0:38:11.920
<v Speaker 2>that there is adultery?

0:38:12.719 --> 0:38:16.440
<v Speaker 3>I mean, you know, I think that there is a

0:38:16.480 --> 0:38:20.160
<v Speaker 3>big percentage. I wish I had my my notes on

0:38:20.200 --> 0:38:21.879
<v Speaker 3>me because I get asked this question all the time,

0:38:21.920 --> 0:38:24.239
<v Speaker 3>and a fifty four I can't ever remember anything. So

0:38:25.480 --> 0:38:28.160
<v Speaker 3>I mean, I definitely think there's a percentage that's you know,

0:38:28.239 --> 0:38:31.160
<v Speaker 3>maybe twenty percent, but I think I don't think it's half.

0:38:31.840 --> 0:38:34.120
<v Speaker 3>I think there are many men in this world that

0:38:34.160 --> 0:38:39.319
<v Speaker 3>are committed and loving and kind and respectful and want

0:38:39.320 --> 0:38:42.200
<v Speaker 3>the same thing as you know. But I also don't

0:38:42.200 --> 0:38:45.360
<v Speaker 3>think it's the end all be all either, Right, So

0:38:45.560 --> 0:38:48.160
<v Speaker 3>it happens, and if it happens, what are we going

0:38:48.200 --> 0:38:50.000
<v Speaker 3>to do. We're going to go and we're going to

0:38:50.040 --> 0:38:52.880
<v Speaker 3>make our relationship hopefully, we're going to nurture it, do

0:38:52.960 --> 0:38:54.960
<v Speaker 3>the things I'm talking about, and we're going to move

0:38:55.040 --> 0:38:58.360
<v Speaker 3>forward healthier, right, and happier, and we won't be the

0:38:58.440 --> 0:38:59.720
<v Speaker 3>old US, but we'll.

0:38:59.560 --> 0:39:01.200
<v Speaker 4>Be a new, anew US.

0:39:01.239 --> 0:39:03.880
<v Speaker 3>That's that's you know, well and improved, and that's what

0:39:03.880 --> 0:39:07.520
<v Speaker 3>we're looking for. So I don't know, I don't agree

0:39:07.520 --> 0:39:09.960
<v Speaker 3>with that all men cheat, absolutely not meither thine.

0:39:10.000 --> 0:39:16.080
<v Speaker 2>More men cheat than women. No, really really interesting, maybe

0:39:16.080 --> 0:39:18.240
<v Speaker 2>not misdaining. Maybe back in the day it was different.

0:39:18.280 --> 0:39:21.440
<v Speaker 3>But I can tell you if I think of my

0:39:21.520 --> 0:39:24.040
<v Speaker 3>caseload right now, it's probably fifty to fifty.

0:39:24.560 --> 0:39:27.840
<v Speaker 2>Wowly sally, Yeah, interesting.

0:39:27.440 --> 0:39:28.560
<v Speaker 4>And that's my caseload.

0:39:28.640 --> 0:39:30.760
<v Speaker 3>I don't know what it is, you know, with other people,

0:39:30.840 --> 0:39:33.160
<v Speaker 3>but with what I what I see, I would say

0:39:33.160 --> 0:39:37.400
<v Speaker 3>it's pretty equal. Okay, maybe maybe a slight tilt to

0:39:37.440 --> 0:39:40.279
<v Speaker 3>the men, but not really that much, not that significantly.

0:39:41.040 --> 0:39:42.640
<v Speaker 2>I have we have like we could go on and on,

0:39:42.719 --> 0:39:46.200
<v Speaker 2>like I have questions that are like not even we

0:39:46.200 --> 0:39:49.600
<v Speaker 2>haven't even touched upon, like women that I know that

0:39:49.640 --> 0:39:52.920
<v Speaker 2>would never like Jeff walks into this house and I

0:39:52.960 --> 0:39:56.360
<v Speaker 2>am Jackie. I think you're different. Like you've said to

0:39:56.400 --> 0:39:58.120
<v Speaker 2>me that like he walks in, I don't think there's

0:39:58.120 --> 0:40:00.000
<v Speaker 2>a day that he walks in that I'm not in sweat,

0:40:00.000 --> 0:40:04.440
<v Speaker 2>that's my hair in a frizzy ponytail, no makeup, like

0:40:05.120 --> 0:40:08.680
<v Speaker 2>in usually in bed with food on the crumbs on

0:40:08.719 --> 0:40:10.960
<v Speaker 2>the And you said you don't. I remember you said

0:40:10.960 --> 0:40:13.520
<v Speaker 2>this man don't matter when that you do always like

0:40:13.560 --> 0:40:14.560
<v Speaker 2>to look put together with them.

0:40:14.640 --> 0:40:16.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I like to look put I mean not obviously,

0:40:16.360 --> 0:40:19.600
<v Speaker 1>not when I'm going to bed, but yeah I'm not.

0:40:19.760 --> 0:40:22.000
<v Speaker 1>I've just never been the type that walks around with

0:40:22.040 --> 0:40:23.600
<v Speaker 1>like a scraggly pony in sweats.

0:40:23.600 --> 0:40:25.320
<v Speaker 2>But that doesn't have to do with Evan, or doesn't.

0:40:25.360 --> 0:40:27.480
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I also want to look attractive for him.

0:40:27.600 --> 0:40:29.799
<v Speaker 1>I don't know, I like looking good for him, and

0:40:29.920 --> 0:40:34.239
<v Speaker 1>he usually doesn't like bum around looking gross either.

0:40:34.600 --> 0:40:35.879
<v Speaker 2>Well do you think that matters, Rob?

0:40:38.600 --> 0:40:41.399
<v Speaker 3>I think it's it's it's yes, I mean I think

0:40:41.440 --> 0:40:44.680
<v Speaker 3>that it's if we're looking sexually and we're looking.

0:40:44.440 --> 0:40:46.280
<v Speaker 4>Physically, we need to get into sex.

0:40:47.480 --> 0:40:49.759
<v Speaker 3>No, we did, and we missed the intimacy piece with

0:40:49.840 --> 0:40:51.640
<v Speaker 3>women that are you know our age.

0:40:51.880 --> 0:40:54.279
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, listen, I have a healthy sex life, but like

0:40:54.320 --> 0:40:56.960
<v Speaker 1>for a lot of women, they are between the child

0:40:57.000 --> 0:41:00.840
<v Speaker 1>responsibilities and work and every else in life.

0:41:01.040 --> 0:41:03.879
<v Speaker 2>Like it's just not doesn't happen. Well, Jack, we had

0:41:03.880 --> 0:41:06.600
<v Speaker 2>a podcast about sex and we talked about the fact

0:41:06.600 --> 0:41:10.279
<v Speaker 2>that there are you know, women not just on reality TV,

0:41:10.360 --> 0:41:13.000
<v Speaker 2>but in general that's claimed they have sex, you know,

0:41:13.239 --> 0:41:15.439
<v Speaker 2>not only multiple times a week, multiple times a night,

0:41:15.520 --> 0:41:18.560
<v Speaker 2>and there's you know this a lot of sex talk.

0:41:18.600 --> 0:41:20.799
<v Speaker 2>And it certainly at my age, Jack, maybe not as

0:41:20.880 --> 0:41:23.640
<v Speaker 2>much as yours, but it is not a priority. Only

0:41:23.640 --> 0:41:26.040
<v Speaker 2>after twenty years of marriages, there's just not a priority

0:41:26.080 --> 0:41:27.799
<v Speaker 2>like it used to be. But you know, as you

0:41:27.880 --> 0:41:29.879
<v Speaker 2>get to be our age, I know that for men

0:41:30.360 --> 0:41:32.880
<v Speaker 2>at least, this is what I know. For my friends,

0:41:32.880 --> 0:41:34.239
<v Speaker 2>this is not I'm not saying I know this for

0:41:34.320 --> 0:41:38.880
<v Speaker 2>a fact, but they want Most of my friends, the

0:41:38.960 --> 0:41:41.719
<v Speaker 2>husbands or the partners want sex a lot more than

0:41:41.760 --> 0:41:45.160
<v Speaker 2>the women do. And how to kind of reconcile that, right,

0:41:46.480 --> 0:41:48.520
<v Speaker 2>And how much does that affect a marriage if there's

0:41:48.960 --> 0:41:52.239
<v Speaker 2>you know, as women get older physically you become it

0:41:52.280 --> 0:41:55.880
<v Speaker 2>becomes less enjoyable, like period, right, unless you use hormones

0:41:55.920 --> 0:42:00.960
<v Speaker 2>and all of that. But the cravings I think for women,

0:42:01.560 --> 0:42:05.640
<v Speaker 2>the women that I know, definitely go down, right, And

0:42:05.680 --> 0:42:07.400
<v Speaker 2>how to navigate that in a marriage or in a

0:42:07.440 --> 0:42:09.719
<v Speaker 2>partnership too, I.

0:42:09.760 --> 0:42:12.080
<v Speaker 4>Mean, I think it definitely women.

0:42:12.239 --> 0:42:16.680
<v Speaker 3>Menopause definitely changes things a lot, but so does children, right, So,

0:42:17.280 --> 0:42:21.440
<v Speaker 3>and so I think Jackie, you had asked this, I

0:42:21.480 --> 0:42:24.240
<v Speaker 3>think ahead of time or someone asked me this about

0:42:24.520 --> 0:42:28.759
<v Speaker 3>you know, scheduling sex, right, So sometimes it's not as

0:42:28.840 --> 0:42:30.160
<v Speaker 3>much about how often.

0:42:30.360 --> 0:42:32.120
<v Speaker 4>It's about making sure that it.

0:42:32.000 --> 0:42:35.319
<v Speaker 3>Is a priority and fitting in as a balance with

0:42:35.360 --> 0:42:37.920
<v Speaker 3>the other things that are important in our lives. And

0:42:37.960 --> 0:42:41.319
<v Speaker 3>at different ages, there's different things that are priorities, right,

0:42:41.440 --> 0:42:44.480
<v Speaker 3>So I think it just depends. But scheduling sex, to me,

0:42:44.880 --> 0:42:47.239
<v Speaker 3>when you have crazy life and you have children, and

0:42:47.239 --> 0:42:50.160
<v Speaker 3>you have activities and jobs and all those things, I

0:42:50.160 --> 0:42:52.239
<v Speaker 3>don't care if you put it on the calendar. I

0:42:52.280 --> 0:42:53.520
<v Speaker 3>think it's a healthy thing to do.

0:42:53.680 --> 0:42:56.880
<v Speaker 1>Good because we quite often have to schedule sex, and

0:42:56.960 --> 0:42:59.880
<v Speaker 1>I would absolutely. I've always wondered if that just just

0:43:00.120 --> 0:43:04.640
<v Speaker 1>joys the intimacy that that part of it, Like we're

0:43:04.680 --> 0:43:06.520
<v Speaker 1>like Thursday, nine thirty, can you we call it a

0:43:06.520 --> 0:43:08.279
<v Speaker 1>conference call so that my kids, I hope my kids

0:43:08.480 --> 0:43:08.920
<v Speaker 1>listen to.

0:43:08.840 --> 0:43:12.239
<v Speaker 2>This, so that they don't, you know, die of embarrassment.

0:43:12.480 --> 0:43:14.560
<v Speaker 2>But we do know.

0:43:14.719 --> 0:43:17.320
<v Speaker 4>I think, yes, I think it's I think.

0:43:17.400 --> 0:43:19.120
<v Speaker 2>And what do you do in the marriages where where

0:43:19.120 --> 0:43:21.399
<v Speaker 2>the one of the partners wants it and so much

0:43:21.440 --> 0:43:28.160
<v Speaker 2>more than the other. What, Just like.

0:43:28.160 --> 0:43:32.120
<v Speaker 3>Everything else, I guess it's it's about we have to

0:43:32.160 --> 0:43:35.200
<v Speaker 3>make sure that we're nurturing the other parts that create intimacy,

0:43:35.280 --> 0:43:40.040
<v Speaker 3>the emotional, the physical, the affection, the conversation, the things

0:43:40.080 --> 0:43:44.680
<v Speaker 3>that may be additionally fuel us in terms of how

0:43:44.680 --> 0:43:48.479
<v Speaker 3>we feel, and with sex as well, and partners aren't

0:43:48.520 --> 0:43:50.800
<v Speaker 3>going to be on the same page. So, like everything else,

0:43:51.440 --> 0:43:54.840
<v Speaker 3>success in marriage is based on compromise, and it's based

0:43:54.880 --> 0:43:57.200
<v Speaker 3>on an ability to vent our needs and our wants.

0:43:57.400 --> 0:43:59.600
<v Speaker 3>That's the other main thing that keeps a marriage together

0:43:59.719 --> 0:44:04.080
<v Speaker 3>is ability to vent and making sure that again we're

0:44:04.120 --> 0:44:08.600
<v Speaker 3>putting ourselves in each other's subjective reality, right, shared meaning,

0:44:09.000 --> 0:44:11.680
<v Speaker 3>and if something's more important to one person than the other.

0:44:12.040 --> 0:44:14.239
<v Speaker 3>Then we need to find a compromise. So it's not

0:44:14.320 --> 0:44:15.680
<v Speaker 3>all the time, it's a compromise.

0:44:15.719 --> 0:44:17.880
<v Speaker 2>So is that saying because I would I hear like

0:44:19.360 --> 0:44:23.440
<v Speaker 2>women in the back of my head saying you should

0:44:23.440 --> 0:44:26.040
<v Speaker 2>never have sex if you don't feel like it, Like,

0:44:26.080 --> 0:44:28.000
<v Speaker 2>I'm sure that a lot of that's probably a pretty

0:44:28.880 --> 0:44:30.120
<v Speaker 2>I don't know. I don't want to get myself in

0:44:30.200 --> 0:44:32.960
<v Speaker 2>trouble here, but a little bit of a fit, right right? Yeah?

0:44:33.000 --> 0:44:40.240
<v Speaker 2>And is it healthy to have sex because your partner

0:44:40.960 --> 0:44:45.960
<v Speaker 2>really wants it and you want to make them happy physically,

0:44:46.000 --> 0:44:47.440
<v Speaker 2>even if you're not in the mood.

0:44:49.120 --> 0:44:50.680
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I do think it's okay.

0:44:51.400 --> 0:44:53.879
<v Speaker 3>So I might get about a backlash on this too,

0:44:54.400 --> 0:44:56.520
<v Speaker 3>based on the world we live in today. But if

0:44:56.520 --> 0:45:00.359
<v Speaker 3>I'm going from the perspective of shared meaning, and I'm

0:45:00.360 --> 0:45:03.320
<v Speaker 3>going from a place of real love and a desire

0:45:03.400 --> 0:45:06.320
<v Speaker 3>for connection, and I'm not saying all the time, but yes,

0:45:06.760 --> 0:45:09.520
<v Speaker 3>if there is this a night and I'm absolutely exhausted

0:45:09.760 --> 0:45:11.400
<v Speaker 3>or I had a terrible day and I'm in a

0:45:11.480 --> 0:45:15.240
<v Speaker 3>terrible mood, am I then gonna force myself to do something?

0:45:15.960 --> 0:45:18.560
<v Speaker 3>Probably not. But if it's just it's one of those

0:45:18.640 --> 0:45:21.080
<v Speaker 3>nights and I just, you know, rather go to bed

0:45:21.480 --> 0:45:23.840
<v Speaker 3>and my husband is into it. There's other things we

0:45:23.880 --> 0:45:26.360
<v Speaker 3>can do to be intimate, right, we don't have to

0:45:26.400 --> 0:45:28.600
<v Speaker 3>have sex. There are other things we can do physically

0:45:28.600 --> 0:45:30.920
<v Speaker 3>and sexually without having intercourse.

0:45:31.320 --> 0:45:34.000
<v Speaker 4>Other things that we can do.

0:45:38.440 --> 0:45:40.719
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's a whole lot of conversation with you, sister.

0:45:42.920 --> 0:45:43.520
<v Speaker 2>I love this.

0:45:43.680 --> 0:45:45.719
<v Speaker 1>I thought it was so good too. It makes me

0:45:45.760 --> 0:45:49.600
<v Speaker 1>feel very fortunate. But I do recognize things that you know,

0:45:49.719 --> 0:45:52.680
<v Speaker 1>Evan wants that I tell him to go do on

0:45:52.719 --> 0:45:56.000
<v Speaker 1>his own, that I could probably give more of myself too.

0:45:56.880 --> 0:46:01.399
<v Speaker 2>But also, like I don't like we have when we

0:46:01.560 --> 0:46:03.960
<v Speaker 2>there are things like the football thing, Rob, that my

0:46:04.080 --> 0:46:07.200
<v Speaker 2>husband is obsessed with football. Like I was never going

0:46:07.280 --> 0:46:11.279
<v Speaker 2>to become a football wife. I wasn't gonna sit down,

0:46:11.880 --> 0:46:15.480
<v Speaker 2>you know and watch football games on Sundays, but Robin

0:46:15.640 --> 0:46:17.959
<v Speaker 2>mentioned that. Yes, Like more recently, I had a friend

0:46:18.040 --> 0:46:19.520
<v Speaker 2>kind of explained to me. I was like, it just

0:46:19.520 --> 0:46:21.400
<v Speaker 2>became a little more enjoyable that I could share that

0:46:21.440 --> 0:46:24.160
<v Speaker 2>with him. But he also was never like he never

0:46:24.160 --> 0:46:27.560
<v Speaker 2>gave me shit about it. Like Jeff. In his family,

0:46:27.600 --> 0:46:31.239
<v Speaker 2>there have been Giant season Giants season tickets for since

0:46:31.320 --> 0:46:33.600
<v Speaker 2>Jeff was a little boy. Right, there were eight of

0:46:33.640 --> 0:46:37.080
<v Speaker 2>them and I went to one game. Now that maybe

0:46:37.120 --> 0:46:40.560
<v Speaker 2>is a marriage counselor that wasn't ideal, But I don't

0:46:40.560 --> 0:46:42.080
<v Speaker 2>really think he gave a shit. I think he almost

0:46:42.080 --> 0:46:45.399
<v Speaker 2>would rather have me not there, like annoying him during it.

0:46:46.000 --> 0:46:48.920
<v Speaker 2>But there are other things, Yeah.

0:46:48.880 --> 0:46:51.040
<v Speaker 4>If you have to figure out what are those things?

0:46:51.040 --> 0:46:53.160
<v Speaker 2>One the things he really wants me to do with him, right,

0:46:53.320 --> 0:46:55.200
<v Speaker 2>there are things, And I think the travel thing is

0:46:55.200 --> 0:47:00.759
<v Speaker 2>a good example, because he doesn't want to go see, uh,

0:47:01.040 --> 0:47:04.040
<v Speaker 2>whatever the historical sites are if we're both traveling to

0:47:04.080 --> 0:47:06.200
<v Speaker 2>a different country on his own and I want to

0:47:06.200 --> 0:47:08.520
<v Speaker 2>see some of them of course, but so trying to

0:47:08.520 --> 0:47:13.480
<v Speaker 2>find some compromise there. Yeah, right, well we've solved all

0:47:13.520 --> 0:47:15.879
<v Speaker 2>the marriage problems in the world. Who our listeners must

0:47:15.920 --> 0:47:22.440
<v Speaker 2>be so happy, everybody, go forth and have go geta yes,

0:47:22.560 --> 0:47:26.560
<v Speaker 2>exactly exactly. Thank you, this is amazing. You're amazing.

0:47:27.320 --> 0:47:29.520
<v Speaker 4>Good lung with you, guys. Thank you so much for

0:47:29.560 --> 0:47:29.920
<v Speaker 4>having me.

0:47:30.000 --> 0:47:34.440
<v Speaker 3>I appreciate it and love you, Robbie, love you so much, Bye, honey.

0:47:34.800 --> 0:47:35.879
<v Speaker 2>So a few things.

0:47:35.880 --> 0:47:37.640
<v Speaker 1>First of all, you know Tiki Barber was on the

0:47:37.640 --> 0:47:39.959
<v Speaker 1>show for one season, yes, like right before you guys,

0:47:40.000 --> 0:47:42.759
<v Speaker 1>came along. Yeah, Jeff would have liked that.

0:47:43.200 --> 0:47:47.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Jeff would have died he We

0:47:47.160 --> 0:47:51.680
<v Speaker 2>were at Melissa Gorgo's for a Christmas Eve, I don't

0:47:51.680 --> 0:47:53.840
<v Speaker 2>know how many years ago, and then not many, No

0:47:53.960 --> 0:47:56.759
<v Speaker 2>Melissa for ten years but whatever, And there were these

0:47:56.800 --> 0:48:01.759
<v Speaker 2>two football players and I don't even remember what those

0:48:01.800 --> 0:48:05.239
<v Speaker 2>who are those football players at the Gorgas that Christmas?

0:48:05.880 --> 0:48:08.719
<v Speaker 2>Oh justin talk? Oh you were there. No, I wasn't there,

0:48:08.760 --> 0:48:10.360
<v Speaker 2>but I know that they were friendly with them. I

0:48:10.400 --> 0:48:17.320
<v Speaker 2>think John John, Pierre Paul. Anyway, whatever, the point is that.

0:48:17.239 --> 0:48:19.360
<v Speaker 1>The guy who he's the guy who blew off his

0:48:19.400 --> 0:48:20.280
<v Speaker 1>finger with a firecracker.

0:48:20.480 --> 0:48:26.160
<v Speaker 2>Yes, yes, yes, yes, see I do know football. Yeah whatever,

0:48:26.239 --> 0:48:29.160
<v Speaker 2>oh on the Jets doesn't matter, It doesn't matter for

0:48:29.200 --> 0:48:33.280
<v Speaker 2>our purposes. The point is that, I mean, my husband

0:48:33.320 --> 0:48:37.120
<v Speaker 2>lit up like a Christmas tree. It was like me

0:48:37.800 --> 0:48:44.120
<v Speaker 2>running into I don't know, mad Madonna. It was just

0:48:44.480 --> 0:48:48.240
<v Speaker 2>so crazy, like his passion is it runs really really deep.

0:48:49.160 --> 0:48:50.600
<v Speaker 2>I don't know what my point in that is other

0:48:50.680 --> 0:48:54.680
<v Speaker 2>than he's obsessed and I really haven't been. And but

0:48:54.800 --> 0:48:56.839
<v Speaker 2>there are other things like so I compromise on on

0:48:57.120 --> 0:49:00.680
<v Speaker 2>what I can. I guess I know he compromises for sure. Yeah,

0:49:00.760 --> 0:49:03.640
<v Speaker 2>like I am. I think I'm harder than he is.

0:49:03.719 --> 0:49:07.120
<v Speaker 2>For instance, on the weekends, you know, Jeff is working

0:49:07.160 --> 0:49:09.000
<v Speaker 2>all week and he likes to go out. I would

0:49:09.080 --> 0:49:12.279
<v Speaker 2>rather on any day. I'd rather stay home like any night.

0:49:13.960 --> 0:49:17.400
<v Speaker 2>So I won't go out two nights on a weekend

0:49:17.440 --> 0:49:18.760
<v Speaker 2>unless we have like real plans.

0:49:18.880 --> 0:49:21.640
<v Speaker 1>That is the exact opposite of my marriage. Yeah, and

0:49:21.760 --> 0:49:25.759
<v Speaker 1>Evan likes to only go out like one time a week,

0:49:25.800 --> 0:49:26.640
<v Speaker 1>which I respect you.

0:49:27.000 --> 0:49:28.319
<v Speaker 2>I don't even want to go out sometimes once.

0:49:28.400 --> 0:49:32.120
<v Speaker 1>He also coaches my kids basketball like all weekends and

0:49:32.400 --> 0:49:37.080
<v Speaker 1>several nights a week. And I like to go out

0:49:37.160 --> 0:49:40.279
<v Speaker 1>a lot, at least I don't.

0:49:40.800 --> 0:49:42.400
<v Speaker 2>If you look at my social media, it seems that

0:49:42.440 --> 0:49:44.200
<v Speaker 2>I like to go out a lot, but I don't.

0:49:44.280 --> 0:49:47.439
<v Speaker 2>I really, I really am a homebody. But I will

0:49:47.480 --> 0:49:51.799
<v Speaker 2>make myself get up and either make plans or go

0:49:51.840 --> 0:49:53.600
<v Speaker 2>out just because he wants you. That's not even a

0:49:53.640 --> 0:49:56.279
<v Speaker 2>great example. But there's so many compromises that I think

0:49:56.320 --> 0:49:59.399
<v Speaker 2>that we've you know, learned to make over the years,

0:49:59.440 --> 0:50:02.160
<v Speaker 2>and we are not. I don't want to, you know,

0:50:02.320 --> 0:50:06.840
<v Speaker 2>represent us as the poster children for an ideal marriage.

0:50:06.840 --> 0:50:09.160
<v Speaker 2>We have our we still obviously after all these years.

0:50:09.160 --> 0:50:11.600
<v Speaker 2>We have a lot of stuff, like everyone does.

0:50:11.840 --> 0:50:14.040
<v Speaker 1>But it's yeah, but I can tell by the way

0:50:14.040 --> 0:50:15.840
<v Speaker 1>that you talk about your husband.

0:50:15.960 --> 0:50:16.239
<v Speaker 2>I can.

0:50:16.320 --> 0:50:18.320
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I've had plenty of conversations with my girlfriends

0:50:18.320 --> 0:50:20.880
<v Speaker 1>about their husbands, and I can just sense when there's

0:50:20.960 --> 0:50:24.400
<v Speaker 1>just constant frustration or when there's the occasional frustration, but

0:50:24.480 --> 0:50:25.120
<v Speaker 1>so much love.

0:50:25.160 --> 0:50:26.759
<v Speaker 2>And you and Jeff love each other so much.

0:50:26.680 --> 0:50:29.120
<v Speaker 1>Which is amazing to me because I always grew up

0:50:29.160 --> 0:50:31.839
<v Speaker 1>with this mindset of like, you cheat, it's over right,

0:50:32.120 --> 0:50:34.680
<v Speaker 1>you know, And I think young girls are kind of

0:50:34.719 --> 0:50:39.680
<v Speaker 1>taught that, like your spouse cheats on you and it's done.

0:50:39.280 --> 0:50:43.560
<v Speaker 2>I feel very lucky about that. And I can't really

0:50:44.360 --> 0:50:46.319
<v Speaker 2>explain how we got here. I just feel lucky that

0:50:46.360 --> 0:50:50.560
<v Speaker 2>we did. But I would say that more than anything,

0:50:50.600 --> 0:50:53.680
<v Speaker 2>And it's the first thing that Robin pointed to. We

0:50:53.800 --> 0:50:57.719
<v Speaker 2>are best friends and he we are allies, so not

0:50:57.960 --> 0:50:59.560
<v Speaker 2>you know, doesn't mean that we don't have that we

0:50:59.560 --> 0:51:05.560
<v Speaker 2>don't fight, but when something happens, you know, big, not

0:51:05.640 --> 0:51:08.200
<v Speaker 2>always small. But but he's my always, my first phone

0:51:08.200 --> 0:51:11.239
<v Speaker 2>call when I'm upset, when I'm I mean, girlfriends are different, right,

0:51:12.800 --> 0:51:14.320
<v Speaker 2>There are things that I can talk to my girlfriends

0:51:14.320 --> 0:51:17.520
<v Speaker 2>about that. I wouldn't talk to Jeff about But in general,

0:51:17.920 --> 0:51:22.080
<v Speaker 2>like you know, we're just we're a team, and that

0:51:22.200 --> 0:51:24.480
<v Speaker 2>is what I hope. I hope, hope, hope for my

0:51:24.560 --> 0:51:28.759
<v Speaker 2>kids if they find someone and who can you know,

0:51:28.880 --> 0:51:31.839
<v Speaker 2>be on the team with them, and I hope they

0:51:31.840 --> 0:51:37.879
<v Speaker 2>have wonderful intimate relationships. But from where I sit, it's

0:51:37.920 --> 0:51:41.000
<v Speaker 2>the most important thing is to feel that friendship. You know. Yeah,

0:51:41.080 --> 0:51:44.319
<v Speaker 2>I agree with you. I love this. I love it too. Yeah,

0:51:44.560 --> 0:51:48.120
<v Speaker 2>so it's good, all right, you guys. We are two

0:51:48.200 --> 0:51:50.400
<v Speaker 2>Jersey days now. I was gonna say, I'm gonna go

0:51:50.440 --> 0:51:52.239
<v Speaker 2>home and have sex with my husband, but I mean,

0:51:52.280 --> 0:51:53.680
<v Speaker 2>I don't know how that led to this. So I'm

0:51:53.680 --> 0:51:55.440
<v Speaker 2>gonna go, I'm gonna I'm gonna get off the phone

0:51:55.480 --> 0:51:58.120
<v Speaker 2>and uh definitely not have sex with my husband, but

0:51:58.160 --> 0:51:59.640
<v Speaker 2>I'll compromise in another way today.

0:52:00.080 --> 0:52:03.800
<v Speaker 1>Okay, So we're two Jersey jays. Thank you for listening,

0:52:03.920 --> 0:52:05.560
<v Speaker 1>Thanks guys for showing you.

0:52:05.600 --> 0:52:09.359
<v Speaker 2>Bye mm

0:52:11.120 --> 0:52:13.239
<v Speaker 3>Hm hm