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Speaker 1: Hi guys, Hi everyone. I'm Jen Fessler, I'm Jackie Goldschneider.

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Speaker 2: And together we are two Jersey Jays and here we are.

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Speaker 2: How you doing there, jack I'm good. Everything is good.

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Speaker 2: It's beautiful out. It is beautiful out.

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Speaker 1: Finally, finally spring has sprung and everything's good. No complaints.

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Speaker 1: Kids are healthy. Aiden's walking again. You know, he broke

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Speaker 1: his knee. He's on the night we were at Madonna horrible.

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Speaker 1: He is almost fully back and we're just getting ready.

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Speaker 2: We're going to Europe.

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Speaker 1: Nice, very nice, very excited and just happy to be

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Speaker 1: here recording another pod with my best Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So we Jackie and I. When we were going over

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Speaker 2: what to talk about for this episode. This past week,

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Speaker 2: we had the pleasure of going to a live podcast. Uh.

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Speaker 2: TJ Holmes and Amy Roeboch did their first live podcast

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Speaker 2: after I don't know what to call it, a scandal

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Speaker 2: types well, it was really a scandalal type situation, but

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Speaker 2: it was if you guys don't know, it was very scandalous,

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Speaker 2: and so if you don't know, Amy and TJ were

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Speaker 2: hosts on Good Morning America for hours, yes not just

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Speaker 2: the third hour. Amy hosted throughout and TJ was also

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Speaker 2: like the sports oh okay, right, reporter throughout and he

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Speaker 2: did a lot of like filling in, so so I mean,

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Speaker 2: like you know, I would think like one of the

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Speaker 2: most coveted broadcasting positions that one could have, right, They

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Speaker 2: are big deals, and they had an affair, although they yeah,

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Speaker 2: they get very upset with that. They call it a relationship,

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Speaker 2: not just that, but they there were reasons they didn't

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Speaker 2: call it an affair. TJ was already I guess, had

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Speaker 2: already been separated from his life.

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Speaker 1: I mean, they said that they were not in good relationships.

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Speaker 1: They were in relationships that were crumbling at the time

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Speaker 1: that they started their relationship.

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Speaker 2: So they didn't really talk about their previous marriages, but

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Speaker 2: they talked a lot about shame. They talked a lot

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Speaker 2: about scandal, about getting fired. I mean, the news, the

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Speaker 2: paparazzi reported on it, and like days later they were

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Speaker 2: both fired from these really really high profile jobs and

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Speaker 2: what it was like and you know, sort of trying

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Speaker 2: to figure out they didn't even want to leave the house,

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Speaker 2: but where to go from there. So they were really

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Speaker 2: really honest and I love them both. And it's funny

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Speaker 2: because we posted about this and I got some comments

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Speaker 2: and some DM saying you had a great night with

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Speaker 2: Amy and tj oh you enjoy spending time with cheaters,

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Speaker 2: or because I think I said something to the effect of, like,

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Speaker 2: you know, I admire them, and so I got some

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Speaker 2: blowback for that, which kind of pisses me off in

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Speaker 2: the sense that you know, all of these high standards

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Speaker 2: that everybody is so perfect, everybody more perfect, right, And listen,

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Speaker 2: I'm not saying that they didn't make mistakes, and they

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Speaker 2: actually talked about that. Their worst mistake was probably keeping

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Speaker 2: it a secret for so long that they should have

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Speaker 2: taken control of the narrative. But anyway, listen, you're also

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Speaker 2: talking about a situation that I've you know, participated in

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Speaker 2: terms of infidelity, and my husband and I have both

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Speaker 2: experienced it, and shit happens and nobody gets away without either,

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Speaker 2: you know, being the culprit. I'm not saying just a cheating,

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Speaker 2: just there was so much judgment around what I had posted.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so the thing that got me and I love

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Speaker 1: the podcast and I love listening to them, and I

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Speaker 1: find them both to be warm and adorable and very

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Speaker 1: in love with each other. But what I wish that

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Speaker 1: they touched on just for a second, was what happened?

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Speaker 2: What was happening in their relationships at the time, right, you.

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Speaker 1: Know, because then you're left to one or what I

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Speaker 1: found myself wondering And I'm not second guessing them. I

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Speaker 1: don't know them, you know, but like, was the other

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Speaker 1: person blindsided?

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Speaker 2: Did they know how unhappy? Well you in TJ's I know,

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Speaker 2: in Tech's case, he had already moved out. I know.

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Speaker 2: You know, Amy talked about a photo that she had

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Speaker 2: taken in Greece and that it was just felt like

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Speaker 2: such a lie. We don't know. And again they probably

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Speaker 2: were being respectful of their you know, ex or soon

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Speaker 2: to be ex spouses. It was a podcast, It wasn't

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Speaker 2: a discussion with, you know, a therapist.

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Speaker 1: But what I was left with was wondering, like, well,

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Speaker 1: what happened what happens in your old marriage?

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Speaker 2: Like to get to that point, to get to that.

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Speaker 1: Point where you I remember one thing they said was

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Speaker 1: and because they had been friends for quite a while,

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Speaker 1: and then they said that like one day, like a

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Speaker 1: look just turns into a gaze, and like what happens

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Speaker 1: to get you to that point where the friend with

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Speaker 1: a friendship crosses over?

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Speaker 2: Right, you know, and then the affair starts and what

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Speaker 2: happens in the marriage that you're even open to it,

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Speaker 2: which is what.

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Speaker 1: Is happening at home that you're open to it. So

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Speaker 1: today we want to talk to an expert. Yees, we'll

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Speaker 1: tell you.

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Speaker 2: Who she is about what goes on.

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Speaker 1: In a marriage that can get you to that breaking

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Speaker 1: point and what can you do about it so that

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Speaker 1: you don't get there.

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Speaker 2: Not just not just in terms of like having an affair,

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Speaker 2: but you know, the disintegration of marriage and how to

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Speaker 2: get back from a place you know that's that's really

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Speaker 2: bad and maybe you know, get your marriage back on

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Speaker 2: track or not, when do you call it quits? So

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Speaker 2: you guys, today we have a very very special guest.

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Speaker 2: It's someone that I know pretty well. I've known this

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Speaker 2: person for years. She is a therapist. She has been

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Speaker 2: in the business for what thirty years. She was the

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Speaker 2: executive director of rehabilitation centers in Florida. She worked a lot,

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Speaker 2: has worked a lot with addiction. She is currently running

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Speaker 2: a practice here in Northern Jersey and she is beyond

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Speaker 2: booked and there's a lot of focus for her right

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Speaker 2: now on marriage counseling. I know all of this about

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Speaker 2: her because I've known her for fifty four years, since

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Speaker 2: she is my sister. Hi Robbie, Hi Ram introducing Robin Gutterman.

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Speaker 2: You guys, we're so excited to have you.

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Speaker 1: Here because I know that you know all about this

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Speaker 1: topic that we are going to discuss what causes the

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Speaker 1: end of a marriage, because you tell her.

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Speaker 2: Well, you know we have been We've discussed before you

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Speaker 2: hopped on, Robin that Jackie and I recently attended a

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Speaker 2: live podcast with TJ Holmes and Amy Robock. I don't

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Speaker 2: know if you know them. I think we've discussed it,

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Speaker 2: but anyway, so the two of them, they had an affair.

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Speaker 2: They were fired from Good Morning America like two days

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Speaker 2: after the word was out. It was a huge scandal,

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Speaker 2: and they recently, for the first time sort of shared

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Speaker 2: the story. What they really didn't do is talk too

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Speaker 2: much about their previous marriages. They didn't talk at all. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: they really were more focused on the shame that came

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Speaker 2: from the scandal, about how the affairs started, how they

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Speaker 2: became best friends. They both know TJ struggled with a

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Speaker 2: lot of depression in terms of the job he was doing.

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Speaker 2: So Jackie and I have just you know, been talking

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Speaker 2: a lot about them, and you know, a lot of

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Speaker 2: our listeners, I am pretty sure, struggle with these issues.

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Speaker 2: And even if it's not marriage, it could be long

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Speaker 2: term relationships. I know that. You actually just attended a

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Speaker 2: conference in Orlando, right, I.

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Speaker 3: Did a Marriage and Family Center conference from a really

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Speaker 3: brilliant guy who is one of the top like gurus

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Speaker 3: of marriage, of marriage and family counseling.

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Speaker 4: So I mean, you.

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Speaker 1: Take you take it people like Amy and TJ who

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Speaker 1: seem very together, they have their shit together, their beautiful, loving,

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Speaker 1: warm and you wonder what could have gone so wrong

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Speaker 1: in their previous relationships.

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Speaker 2: That yeah, right, yeah, well, I mean they the affair

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Speaker 2: the way they've represented it, and again they didn't really

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Speaker 2: talk too much about previous marriages, but it was sort

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Speaker 2: of more about the way that they fell in love.

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Speaker 2: So we're but for our purposes, you know, I would

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Speaker 2: love to talk about what is happening in the marriage

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Speaker 2: and how does a marriage disintegrate, And I'm sure there's

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Speaker 2: all different ways, but to the point where an affair happens,

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Speaker 2: a divorce happens, how do you robin get people back

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Speaker 2: on track? Can you always get people back on track.

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Speaker 2: So one of the biggest issues. Yeah, let's start at

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Speaker 2: the start. What's the what's the number one thing that

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Speaker 2: tears people apart?

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Speaker 3: Communication, I would say, or an inability to manage conflict at.

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Speaker 2: House of what I say, is that something because we're

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Speaker 2: you know, as you know rob our podcast, we're focused

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Speaker 2: on women of a certain age, not necessarily newlyweds. But still,

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Speaker 2: I don't know, maybe these problems run, you know, in

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Speaker 2: terms of they run with newlyweds and then people have

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Speaker 2: been married for years and years. But right, tell us, like,

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Speaker 2: what is I guess communication is sort of the most

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Speaker 2: common issue. Does that happen at the beginning of a marriage?

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Speaker 2: Does the marriage disintegrate our kids the reason? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Does that mean you just don't talk or you don't

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Speaker 1: know how to resolve your issues?

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Speaker 3: I mean yeah, I think there are a lot of

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Speaker 3: things that end up being the struggle for people in marriage.

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Speaker 3: One of them, I mean, things do change after you

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Speaker 3: have children, for sure, that becomes a big piece. Finances

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Speaker 3: intimacy or lack of intimacy emotionallyhysically, sexually over time, especially

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Speaker 3: in older women, I think that starts to decrease over

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Speaker 3: time from what I'm seeing a lot of But you know,

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Speaker 3: the things that people really focus on are the things

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Speaker 3: that keep.

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Speaker 4: The marriage together.

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Speaker 3: And there are three things, right, So it starts with

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Speaker 3: friendship being allies and partners in a relationship, putting each

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Speaker 3: other first, making each other a priority above anyone and

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Speaker 3: everything else is even the kids, even the kids, without

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Speaker 3: a doubt, the marriage comes before the children.

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Speaker 2: Robbie, what does that look like on like in a

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Speaker 2: practical can you give us like an example of that,

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Speaker 2: like a practical example when for people that are dealing

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Speaker 2: with the juggling the kids and the marriage.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's you know, on a daily basis,

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Speaker 3: we talk about you're either turning towards or turning away

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Speaker 3: from your partner.

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Speaker 4: And everything that you do on a daily basis.

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Speaker 3: So for example, you're sitting at the table, right and

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Speaker 3: you're with your partner and one if you picks up

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Speaker 3: the phone and is reading your text messages, that would

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Speaker 3: be considered a turnway. Right, you're having a conversation, you're

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Speaker 3: not giving eye contact, that would be a turnarway. One

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Speaker 3: text the other throughout the day, the other one doesn't answer,

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Speaker 3: that would be considered a turn away. There's many things

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Speaker 3: that we do on a daily basis that we're either

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Speaker 3: nurturing our relationship or we're doing things that set it up.

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Speaker 3: Little things all the time, all throughout the day that's

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Speaker 3: set it up for resentment over time, and it's things

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Speaker 3: that we don't think about and we don't catch. But

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Speaker 3: if the marriage isn't where it needs to be and

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Speaker 3: it's not the priority, then everything that comes underneath that

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Speaker 3: umbrella becomes an issue.

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Speaker 1: But don't you have to prioritize your kids. They're needy,

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Speaker 1: they need you.

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Speaker 3: It's not that your children aren't a priority. Of course,

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Speaker 3: your children are priority, but they're not the biggest priority.

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Speaker 3: I like to say, shit runs downhill. So if the

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Speaker 3: marriage relationship is strong, there's friendship, there's support, there's affection,

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Speaker 3: there's love, there's togetherness, there's unity and parenting all of

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Speaker 3: those things or what you're role modeling for your children. Right,

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Speaker 3: So if that's what we're focusing on a lot a

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Speaker 3: lot of the time, is making sure that relationship is

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Speaker 3: the most healthy, then what your kids begin to see

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Speaker 3: is what does it look like, right? What does it

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Speaker 3: look like when we have a fight as partners, Well,

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Speaker 3: it looks like we scream maybe, and we resolve it

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Speaker 3: and our kids get to see how we deal with life,

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Speaker 3: even though it's not perfect, how we deal with it together.

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Speaker 1: Right, So you're not saying like, if your kids have

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Speaker 1: something they need to be at, like you choose a

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Speaker 1: date night instead.

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Speaker 2: That's not what you're saying.

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Speaker 3: Okay, No, absolutely not. I'm just saying that the way

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Speaker 3: that you connect in your relationship needs to be the

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Speaker 3: priority over anything and everything else in your life.

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Speaker 4: I love otherwise other therewise there's holes over time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you said there were three things, and the first

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Speaker 2: thing is friendship, which I love, which only in the

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Speaker 2: sense that you know this is old news ready, but

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Speaker 2: Jeff and I have had after twenty five years in April,

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Speaker 2: we've certainly had our ups and our downs and separated

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Speaker 2: for a year and a half, and there were infidelities,

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Speaker 2: and there have been lots there's lots of stuff, right

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Speaker 2: that's packed into that twenty five years. The thing that

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Speaker 2: I can say now is that and that I cherish

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Speaker 2: the most is the friendship is the and I think

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Speaker 2: you said like that feeling of I don't know how

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Speaker 2: you said it, but but we're such a team. All

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Speaker 2: the other stuff and I don't know what comes after

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Speaker 2: the friendship, but to me, that's for me, that's the

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Speaker 2: most important part of my relationship. That's the part that

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Speaker 2: I really treasure the most.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's being allies, being partners, making sure the other

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Speaker 3: person knows on a daily basis that they're meaningful, that

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Speaker 3: they're important, that they're a priority, right in the little ways,

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Speaker 3: not in grand gestures, just in the little things that

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Speaker 3: we do that let the other person know that we're

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Speaker 3: leaning towards them, you know, throughout the day.

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Speaker 2: What was the next thing?

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Speaker 3: So the next thing is managing conflict hence communication, learning

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Speaker 3: how to fight fairly.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 3: I think we don't know how to listen to each other.

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Speaker 3: I think we hear each other, but we don't know

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Speaker 3: how to actively listen. And that's a skill, right, learning

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Speaker 3: how to talk to someone so they can hear you.

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Speaker 1: Okay, But when you get in a fight and it's

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Speaker 1: heated a lot of Evan and I get along great,

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Speaker 1: but there are times when we just have to walk

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Speaker 1: away from each other.

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Speaker 4: Mm hmm.

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Speaker 2: So what do you do in those kinds of circumstances?

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Speaker 3: I mean, I think it's it's learning how to do

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Speaker 3: things that are going to promote healthy you know, healthy

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Speaker 3: fighting and healthy communication. So the way that you talk

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Speaker 3: to somebody you never you know, the way the.

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Speaker 4: Choice of words that you use are a big thing.

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Speaker 3: We don't think that they are, but all day, every day,

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Speaker 3: the choices that we use make people defensive.

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Speaker 2: Give us an example.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so if you want to say something along the

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Speaker 3: lines of why didn't you take out the garbage? You

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Speaker 3: never take it out. I always have to do it,

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Speaker 3: and you're sitting in my office, I would say to you, Yeah.

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Speaker 4: No, that's not a good way to start, right.

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Speaker 3: Using a sentence that starts with you is going to

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Speaker 3: be me talking about somebody else's behavior and a negative capacity.

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Speaker 4: You is the worst word on the planet to ever use.

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Speaker 3: Instead, I'm going to say, you know, it's upsetting for

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Speaker 3: me when I feel like, you know, we both walk

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Speaker 3: by the garbage and it seems like I'm the only

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Speaker 3: one that's taking it out, and when that happens, I

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Speaker 3: feel frustrated, right as opposed to why don't you ever

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Speaker 3: do it? You never take it out? It's so annoying. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: very different way of dealing. So it's the way that

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Speaker 3: you're speaking, right that helps a conversation and it's also,

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Speaker 3: as you said, Jackie, taking those moments where one person

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Speaker 3: becomes flooded emotionally in a fight, which means emotionally and

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Speaker 3: physically at their fill. Right, So if the other person

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Speaker 3: says one more thing to me, I'm going to cut

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Speaker 3: runneth over, I'm going to lose my mind. Right, I'm

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Speaker 3: gonna scream, I'm gonna walk away, I'm going to do

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Speaker 3: whatever they're is. So it's important when one person is

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Speaker 3: flooded emotionally to be able to say, hey, I'm at

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Speaker 3: my fill. How about we take a twenty minute break

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Speaker 3: and go in the other room and calm down, and

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Speaker 3: I say, read a magazine because that's the best way

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Speaker 3: to get your body chemistry back down to normals. To

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Speaker 3: read some piece of crap that means.

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Speaker 2: Nothing online or does it have to be like us Weekly?

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Speaker 2: Did it be anything?

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Speaker 3: It can be anything, but it can't be from a phone.

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Speaker 3: It needs to be something that you can pick up.

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Speaker 2: Interesting.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And it's the number one intervention for emotionally de escalating.

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Speaker 4: You.

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Speaker 2: Wow, so interesting. I got to buy in the other room. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: You go in the other room for twenty minutes and

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Speaker 3: then you come back together and you try to start

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Speaker 3: again with an ice statement instead of a youth statement,

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Speaker 3: which will immediately begin to change just how the tone

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Speaker 3: is of the conversation.

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Speaker 4: Does that make sense?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it does. What is the third thing? So we've

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Speaker 2: got friendship and communications.

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Speaker 4: Conflict, managing conflict.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and the most important one to me after friendship, well,

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Speaker 3: all of them are important is shared meaning?

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Speaker 2: What is that?

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Speaker 3: So as a couple, it's how do you dump yourself

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Speaker 3: into somebody else's subjective reality. So the things that are

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Speaker 3: important to them, their hopes, their dreams, their wishes, they're

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Speaker 3: the things that make them.

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Speaker 4: Who they are.

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Speaker 3: How do you put yourself in that so you can

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Speaker 3: create shared meaning together. An example would be one of

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Speaker 3: my clients was talking about how she wanted to climb

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Speaker 3: on Mount Everest and the husband and was scared of heights.

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Speaker 3: So she's like, well, I've been wanting to do this

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Speaker 3: my bucket list, it's my dream. So he's petrified, but

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Speaker 3: he made a decision to go with her to do

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Speaker 3: this as scared as he was, and he did the

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Speaker 3: best he could and then stopped.

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Speaker 4: They went with a guide.

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Speaker 3: And she climbed up higher, so they oienced it something

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Speaker 3: that was her dream together and created shared meaning.

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Speaker 4: And I think.

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Speaker 3: That's the biggest The things that you do on a

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Speaker 3: daily basis, the rituals, right, even little things like my

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Speaker 3: husband brings me coffee Jeff for you too every morning.

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Speaker 3: What are the things that the two of you can

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Speaker 3: jump into in each other subjective reality meaning the dreams,

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Speaker 3: the hope, the wishes, the things that are important and

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Speaker 3: become part of it.

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Speaker 4: So funny the growth and sake of the relationship.

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Speaker 2: I don't ever ask Jeff what are your Well, that's

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Speaker 2: not true. I probably do, and he doesn't answer because

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Speaker 2: he's like, I'm working, but when whenever, But he's like, like,

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Speaker 2: what do you want? Like moving forward? Like what are

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Speaker 2: your We want to do different things when we travel,

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Speaker 2: so I personally know and so does See. We push because,

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Speaker 2: for instance, Jeff could spend all day long. We're about

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Speaker 2: to go to Vietnam. He's going to want to tour

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Speaker 2: every historical site, and I more want to see the

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Speaker 2: people in the I mean he wants to We want

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Speaker 2: to do both, but like I will, I will push myself.

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Speaker 2: I don't always, you know, want to see want to

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Speaker 2: go to every museum or want to go to every

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Speaker 2: monument and that's important him. Sometimes don't. I probably don't

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Speaker 2: push hard enough. But I feel like that's what you're saying,

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Speaker 2: like to actually, you know, and I and I'm trying

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Speaker 2: to think of like do you have anything real life?

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Speaker 1: Well, I just wanted to ask so, But it's not

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Speaker 1: always an instance like it would be okay if that

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Speaker 1: husband said, you know, I'm really scared, I don't want

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Speaker 1: to do this.

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Speaker 2: I'm like, I hope that you have fun on your own,

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Speaker 2: Like is that okay?

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Speaker 1: Because there's oftentimes where things that I want to do

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Speaker 1: that Evan is just so uninterested in, and I say,

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Speaker 1: it's okay, I'll go do it, I'll grab a girlfriend,

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Speaker 1: I'll do it, and like we'll do something else together.

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Speaker 2: Is that okay to still?

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Speaker 4: I mean, I think I think that it's okay.

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Speaker 3: I think that you know, we have to compromise and

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Speaker 3: pick and shoes. We can't always just do the things

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Speaker 3: that we want to do. Sometimes we have to jump

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Speaker 3: into somebody else's love or interest because we love them

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Speaker 3: and more not about it being about them, but us

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Speaker 3: trying to understand who they are right as humans, Like

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Speaker 3: what is it about this that's so exciting for you?

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Speaker 3: It's like Jennifer learning football right her husband loves football.

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Speaker 3: Finally making a decision to say, all right, I've been

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Speaker 3: sitting on the couch with be bored on my phone

390
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Speaker 3: for the last twenty years, Right, what can I do?

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Speaker 3: What can I do different? Well, huh, maybe someone can

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Speaker 3: teach me about football. I might not like it as

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Speaker 3: much as Jeff Bessler, but now I actually might be

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Speaker 3: able to say, you know what a down is, you know,

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Speaker 3: and I might be able to have a conversation about

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Speaker 3: a certain correct, there are things things like that, right,

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Speaker 3: So not even all the way sharing what we can

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Speaker 3: share to become part of the other person's dream and

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Speaker 3: subjective reality, the things that are important as part of

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Speaker 3: their truth.

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Speaker 2: So people, you know, a couple walks through the door

402
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Speaker 2: and launching it to this at the point that they're

403
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Speaker 2: at may not help. Like they're in the midst of

404
00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:11,720
Speaker 2: you know, one of them has had an affair, they've

405
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Speaker 2: been discovered, there's no intimacy left. How do you guide

406
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Speaker 2: people that have grown so far apart? Yeah, like don't you? Oh?

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Speaker 1: Like so one part of me is like, of course

408
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Speaker 1: you try to save any way that you can.

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Speaker 2: But the other part is like you live once life

410
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Speaker 2: is sure.

411
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Speaker 1: You owe it to yourself to be with a partner

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Speaker 1: who really makes you happy.

413
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Speaker 2: Where's the line?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, okay.

415
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Speaker 3: So I think that when people come in, there's two

416
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Speaker 3: things that I try to really teach them. One is,

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Speaker 3: are you here unconditionally meaning we got married for better

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Speaker 3: or for worse, come what may, and no mat matter

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Speaker 3: what happens, that's.

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Speaker 4: Our goal to figure it out.

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Speaker 3: Or I married you and it's conditional, meaning that if

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Speaker 3: I'd a part in my life where I'm different, I've

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Speaker 3: grown out of it, I'm unsure.

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Speaker 4: Then I need to figure out, you know, kind of

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Speaker 4: where I am.

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Speaker 3: So if two people come in and they're both unconditional, great,

427
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Speaker 3: they're both conditional I can still work with because it

428
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Speaker 3: means there's hope there. If one's unconditional and one's conditional,

429
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Speaker 3: I tell them they need to go home and have

430
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Speaker 3: a conversation.

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Speaker 2: So like, what do you mean? So like if they

432
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Speaker 2: both come in and one says, no, matter what you do, asshole,

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Speaker 2: I'm sticking by you. I want to stay married to you,

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Speaker 2: and I want this, you know, until the end of time,

435
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Speaker 2: and the other says, well, I don't really feel it,

436
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Speaker 2: and if things don't change, I'm out. That's when you

437
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Speaker 2: know it's over. Is that what you're saying that?

438
00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:37,119
Speaker 3: And then the other thing is if I say to

439
00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:41,520
Speaker 3: one one of the clients, tell me something good about

440
00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:44,600
Speaker 3: your significant other, tell me something good. If you can't

441
00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:47,879
Speaker 3: tell me anything good about your significant other, then you

442
00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:51,400
Speaker 3: need to go home and have a conversation, because that

443
00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:54,560
Speaker 3: means we're at the time where there's just contempt. And

444
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:57,160
Speaker 3: if we're at a place of contempt, then we really

445
00:22:57,240 --> 00:22:58,040
Speaker 3: need to reevaluate.

446
00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:00,440
Speaker 2: And you can't help at that point.

447
00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:04,680
Speaker 3: If someone says to me that if they can't find

448
00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:08,240
Speaker 3: something good about their partner, then I'm not one of

449
00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:10,880
Speaker 3: those people that's going to try to create something where

450
00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:11,720
Speaker 3: there's nothing left.

451
00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:13,680
Speaker 4: Okay, so other therapist, cool.

452
00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:16,120
Speaker 1: Here's a question. If you have all of those things,

453
00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:20,280
Speaker 1: you have what seems to you to be a great marriage,

454
00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:25,959
Speaker 1: the friendship, the intimacy, all of it communication, Is it

455
00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:31,640
Speaker 1: possible that one person just falls for someone else? Can

456
00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:33,360
Speaker 1: that still happen even with everything?

457
00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:35,359
Speaker 4: Yeah?

458
00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:37,760
Speaker 3: I think, Look, it depends on how much we're nurturing

459
00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:38,520
Speaker 3: the relationship.

460
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:38,800
Speaker 2: Right.

461
00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:41,560
Speaker 3: We can have a good relationship just day in day

462
00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:43,800
Speaker 3: out and we're just not fighting, and we would just

463
00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:47,680
Speaker 3: have you know we have a good marriage. There's another part,

464
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:50,600
Speaker 3: are we nurturing it or are we not and nurturing

465
00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:52,520
Speaker 3: it is more about the things that I'm talking about

466
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:55,760
Speaker 3: with the shared meaning. People do end up having affairs

467
00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:59,920
Speaker 3: for many different reasons, which also makes a couples count

468
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:02,399
Speaker 3: think very difficult. Right, So there's two things that make

469
00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:05,719
Speaker 3: it difficult, and an abusive relationship and an affair.

470
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:09,160
Speaker 4: Those are the two things that are very very difficult

471
00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:10,479
Speaker 4: to do with well.

472
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:13,440
Speaker 1: In abusive relationship, I would never advocate anybody going back

473
00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:15,680
Speaker 1: to but an affair, and I think Jen and I

474
00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:18,119
Speaker 1: sit very differently on this because I have no experience

475
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:18,439
Speaker 1: with it.

476
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:19,800
Speaker 2: But can you ever.

477
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:21,920
Speaker 1: Fully get the trust back? Like do you fully fully

478
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:23,280
Speaker 1: trust your partner?

479
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:25,600
Speaker 2: Listen, I don't know. I can't answer that in a

480
00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:28,439
Speaker 2: global sense. Do I trust Jeffessler one hundred percent? Yes,

481
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:34,960
Speaker 2: I do? And more than that, Like it's so I

482
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:37,280
Speaker 2: don't even think about it. It's just the last thing

483
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:41,280
Speaker 2: on my mind, you know, I don't. It's not like

484
00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:45,200
Speaker 2: I'm maybe back in the day it happened. The infidelities

485
00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:48,159
Speaker 2: both of ours have been so long ago, and I

486
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:52,240
Speaker 2: guess for years afterwards, I was, you know, suspicious looking

487
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:55,239
Speaker 2: at the phone or questioning, and I just know I

488
00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:57,320
Speaker 2: don't ever even think about it.

489
00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:00,080
Speaker 3: I don't, but I think what Jackie said, I think

490
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:02,399
Speaker 3: there are people that can't let it go for sure.

491
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:05,679
Speaker 3: So you know, in counseling, I'll take a look at

492
00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:08,000
Speaker 3: I'll have an individual session. If there was an affair

493
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:10,399
Speaker 3: and the person who had the affair, I'm going to

494
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:12,720
Speaker 3: ask them straight out if you need to tell the

495
00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:16,160
Speaker 3: truth right there cannot be any more secrets end of it.

496
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:21,200
Speaker 3: So if you're not willing to tell the truth to

497
00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:25,240
Speaker 3: the partner, I mean to your partner, to me and

498
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:28,040
Speaker 3: to the partner, but I meet it individually, so this person,

499
00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:32,239
Speaker 3: you know, the partner will know where I stand on this,

500
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:35,320
Speaker 3: that the truth has to happen and the secrets have

501
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:39,440
Speaker 3: to be finished, and that the things that are discussed

502
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:43,680
Speaker 3: in terms of an affair are discussed. Everything that that

503
00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:48,679
Speaker 3: the person who was this was done to, Everything is

504
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:51,640
Speaker 3: asked except the specifics of what happened in the bedroom.

505
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:53,760
Speaker 3: We all know what happens in the bedroom, right, We

506
00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:57,000
Speaker 3: don't need to have a conversation in therapy about what

507
00:25:57,080 --> 00:26:01,760
Speaker 3: happens in the bedroom. We know out side of that

508
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:05,480
Speaker 3: that person engaged in this behavior and the person who

509
00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:09,960
Speaker 3: has been devastated deserves The answer is without secrets.

510
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:12,679
Speaker 1: So is it a different counseling session if there was

511
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:16,359
Speaker 1: an emotional attachment versus just more about the sex.

512
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:21,200
Speaker 3: No, I think it's the same thing in terms of

513
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:22,720
Speaker 3: what in terms of being the truth?

514
00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:24,240
Speaker 4: Right, what's the truth?

515
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:27,320
Speaker 3: We're not going to have secrets in our marriage and

516
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:30,640
Speaker 3: it's going to continue to come up over time, right

517
00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:33,520
Speaker 3: until there is trust that's built back, and trust is

518
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 3: built back by acting remorsefully and understanding what the other

519
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:40,520
Speaker 3: person needs. And remorse is an action. It's not something

520
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:42,480
Speaker 3: we say, it's something we do and how we behave.

521
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:44,400
Speaker 2: Am I an enigma? Rob? Do you think, like how

522
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:47,360
Speaker 2: many of the people that you counsel that where there's infidelity,

523
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 2: how many of them do make the marriage last and

524
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:52,800
Speaker 2: you know, fix it?

525
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:57,360
Speaker 3: I mean I don't really have you know, a percentage.

526
00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:00,359
Speaker 3: It's really about what's reported and who continue used to

527
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 3: come back.

528
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:04,399
Speaker 2: You're not because Jennifer Aiden's marriage is fine? No, I

529
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 2: don't mean. The only one I'm just saying is it rare?

530
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:08,480
Speaker 2: Is it really rare to be able to come back

531
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:11,680
Speaker 2: from infidelity? I mean, I can say, like, I have

532
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:14,680
Speaker 2: a lot a lot of friends who are divorced and

533
00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:19,520
Speaker 2: who have you know been either you know, the cheaer

534
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:23,440
Speaker 2: or the one that was cheated on, and so it's

535
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:27,240
Speaker 2: I don't see that much although maybe nobody, not a

536
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:28,840
Speaker 2: lot of people tell me, but there's not often that

537
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:31,640
Speaker 2: bounce back of Okay, we survived it, we're back together at.

538
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:33,000
Speaker 4: Least, you know what I actually do.

539
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:37,760
Speaker 3: I think people that are committed because of the reasons

540
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:40,119
Speaker 3: that I said before, all the other things Jackie you

541
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:42,919
Speaker 3: brought up, I think that if people are committed, I

542
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:46,360
Speaker 3: think there is and invested in doing the work outside

543
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:48,560
Speaker 3: of therapy as well, because that's where most of the

544
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:50,800
Speaker 3: work happens. Right you're with a therapist for an hour,

545
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:54,399
Speaker 3: and you're both committed to coming and doing what's suggested.

546
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:55,760
Speaker 4: I do think I have.

547
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:58,400
Speaker 3: I can think of, just off the top of my head,

548
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:01,040
Speaker 3: five or six couples that had eat their emotional affairs

549
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:04,800
Speaker 3: Jackie asked, or affairs, and they're together, two of whom

550
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:06,879
Speaker 3: have had children since they started coming to me.

551
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:09,440
Speaker 4: So I do.

552
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:13,080
Speaker 3: I think it's really more about how invested are we

553
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:16,240
Speaker 3: and how are we working on the things in the

554
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:20,199
Speaker 3: marriage that help us to get to that place of

555
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:24,480
Speaker 3: earning back the trust right and in the relationship over time,

556
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:25,000
Speaker 3: and it's.

557
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:27,440
Speaker 2: Got to be I don't know if this is this

558
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 2: is the truth or just the way. I don't really know,

559
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:33,600
Speaker 2: but it feels to me like if we hadn't been

560
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:36,600
Speaker 2: through that and it was a long time ago, I

561
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:38,960
Speaker 2: don't know that we would be where we are today.

562
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:43,480
Speaker 2: I would not recommend I'm not advocating for infidelity, really

563
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:46,520
Speaker 2: I'm not, but I just think to myself, I still

564
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:52,880
Speaker 2: have this like there's this pervasive feeling that I'm lucky,

565
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:56,320
Speaker 2: you know, not just because I got we got back together.

566
00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:58,560
Speaker 2: There are a lot of reasons why I feel blessed

567
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:01,720
Speaker 2: and that I have so much gratitude, But I feel

568
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:05,360
Speaker 2: like we don't take each other for granted like we

569
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:08,520
Speaker 2: did at the beginning of our marriage. It's not, you know,

570
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:09,680
Speaker 2: it's it's not a given.

571
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:13,240
Speaker 1: Yep, that's not Can I ask you a question just

572
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:17,640
Speaker 1: some other things that in doing our research, we saw

573
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 1: that it said finances, we're the biggest cause of stress

574
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:22,400
Speaker 1: in a relationship.

575
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 2: So but what can you do about that?

576
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:27,239
Speaker 1: I mean, and do you advise women to have their

577
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 1: own money and their own bank accounts.

578
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:33,520
Speaker 3: I really think it just it depends on the dynamic

579
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:36,280
Speaker 3: of the relationship. What I've actually found is most people

580
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 3: that are married first marriage, they have joint.

581
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:42,160
Speaker 4: Accounts, interestingly enough, and then.

582
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:45,040
Speaker 3: Most people that are on their second, third, eighteenth marriage,

583
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:48,719
Speaker 3: they usually have their own right. So now they've figured

584
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:53,880
Speaker 3: out for household expenses they usually have shared and for

585
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:57,200
Speaker 3: everything else they keep separate. And that's what I've seen

586
00:29:57,240 --> 00:29:59,680
Speaker 3: the majority. I'm not sure why, Jackie. I don't know

587
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:01,959
Speaker 3: if it's just the first time around, maybe it's just

588
00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:02,560
Speaker 3: do I think.

589
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:04,320
Speaker 2: It's because they maybe want to protect if they have kids,

590
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:06,360
Speaker 2: they want to protect the kids right.

591
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:08,960
Speaker 3: Right, if they have divorce, if they get divorced second

592
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 3: time around, whatever, they have separate accounts.

593
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 4: Whatever it might be. But I don't think there's anything

594
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:16,360
Speaker 4: wrong with it. I think everything is worthy of a discussion.

595
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:17,760
Speaker 2: Okay, a discussion.

596
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:21,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, what about relatives? Like extended families cause a lot

597
00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:22,960
Speaker 1: of problems. What do you do about that? Because you

598
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:25,200
Speaker 1: can't just cut off your family, Like, what do you

599
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:27,160
Speaker 1: do about like mother in laws. I have a wonderful

600
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:28,520
Speaker 1: mother in law, but what do you do with a

601
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:32,960
Speaker 1: mother in law that like just won't stop interfering or

602
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:33,840
Speaker 1: in laws in generating.

603
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:38,920
Speaker 3: I think it's important to first talk it out together.

604
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 3: What are the things that are important, you know, husband

605
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:46,000
Speaker 3: and wife in terms of are boundaries and interference right,

606
00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:48,520
Speaker 3: what is the most upsetting? Are we listening to each

607
00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:51,120
Speaker 3: other about the things that we really need and the

608
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 3: things that upset us or get disrupted by family? And

609
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:57,200
Speaker 3: a lot of the time it's an inability based on

610
00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:00,600
Speaker 3: a history to set boundaries right with our parents, whether

611
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:03,680
Speaker 3: it's due to guilt, whether it's because they've been there

612
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:06,480
Speaker 3: for us our whole lives, whether it's because there's a

613
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:10,360
Speaker 3: dynamic that's happened since childhood that prevents them from setting

614
00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:13,360
Speaker 3: up boundaries. So I think again, it's always going to

615
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:16,240
Speaker 3: be about a conversation. It's always going to be about

616
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:19,440
Speaker 3: how do we compromise on the things that are important

617
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:21,840
Speaker 3: to each of us when it comes to family members,

618
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:24,239
Speaker 3: So how do we stick up a boundary. Maybe it's

619
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:27,120
Speaker 3: a family that walks in without knocking, right, they just

620
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:30,160
Speaker 3: come over, Then there needs to be a conversation. If

621
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 3: that's very disruptive to me and not to my husband,

622
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:36,720
Speaker 3: then I need to have a conversation. And the hope

623
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:39,800
Speaker 3: would be that depending on the dynamic, that one of

624
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:43,239
Speaker 3: us would have a conversation and start with validating and

625
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 3: supporting the family. We love you so much, you know,

626
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:49,960
Speaker 3: we love having you come to our house, the kids.

627
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 3: It makes the kids so happy, It makes us so happy.

628
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:54,960
Speaker 3: But sometimes it's hard for us when there's just a

629
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:57,040
Speaker 3: drop in because we have a lot of things going

630
00:31:57,080 --> 00:31:59,560
Speaker 3: on and as much you know, we love, love, love

631
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:02,600
Speaker 3: having here. But we would so appreciate if you were,

632
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 3: you know, to get a phone call before you come,

633
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:06,480
Speaker 3: just so we can make sure we're dressed and the

634
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:09,920
Speaker 3: kids are you know, we're ready or whatever it might be.

635
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:12,040
Speaker 4: It just it makes it easier for us.

636
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:15,320
Speaker 3: So again, talking for you, Jackie, about what you need

637
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:18,560
Speaker 3: instead of what the extended family or the you know,

638
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:23,640
Speaker 3: the family members are doing to you anything, y Right,

639
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:26,400
Speaker 3: it's what do we need to make.

640
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:27,200
Speaker 4: Us feel okay?

641
00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:29,920
Speaker 3: And how can we validate and support the people that

642
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:33,280
Speaker 3: we love while trying to put up the boundary that says, hey,

643
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:36,680
Speaker 3: it's important to me that we get knocks on the

644
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 3: door before people come over because it just kind of

645
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:39,480
Speaker 3: freaks me out.

646
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:40,760
Speaker 4: So we'd really appreciate it.

647
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:43,680
Speaker 1: Right, So instead of attacking the other person, or what

648
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:44,560
Speaker 1: other people are doing.

649
00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:47,040
Speaker 2: You make it more about your needs. I love that. Yeah,

650
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:51,080
Speaker 2: also Rob women around our age, Jackie, not you yet,

651
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:56,040
Speaker 2: but Robin, you and me? So the empty nest thing, right, So,

652
00:32:57,440 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 2: I'm sure a lot of couples that you work with,

653
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:03,600
Speaker 2: probably the kids leave and what's left now? Right when

654
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:08,240
Speaker 2: when they've devoted so much time and effort to the kids,

655
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:10,120
Speaker 2: And is it do you find a lot of that

656
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:14,280
Speaker 2: couple struggling to reconnect after the kids are gone?

657
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:17,120
Speaker 4: You know?

658
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:21,480
Speaker 3: I think it really depends on the dynamic throughout in

659
00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:22,440
Speaker 3: the relationship.

660
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:23,360
Speaker 4: You know, I don't.

661
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:27,600
Speaker 3: I do see it, but I don't know it's interesting enough.

662
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:29,880
Speaker 3: I don't know if I see it as much as

663
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:32,880
Speaker 3: I thought I would see it. I think there's a

664
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:35,880
Speaker 3: rekindling a lot of the time, or maybe that's the

665
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:38,760
Speaker 3: time where couples do come in and want to work

666
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:42,600
Speaker 3: on their relationship because they feel like they they put

667
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:43,600
Speaker 3: it on the back burner.

668
00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:46,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, I hear that, right, that they put their.

669
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:49,760
Speaker 3: Relationship on the back burner as secondary to the children.

670
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:50,040
Speaker 1: Right.

671
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:53,160
Speaker 3: And that's where I try to change the dynamic. Like

672
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:55,000
Speaker 3: I said at the beginning, Oh no, no, no, no, no,

673
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:57,120
Speaker 3: you need to be as much of a priority as

674
00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:00,800
Speaker 3: as your children. Otherwise you do end up with that. Now,

675
00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 3: where are we after the kids are gone?

676
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:13,840
Speaker 2: So this is just a little funny anecdote. But years

677
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:16,840
Speaker 2: and years ago, Rachel, my daughter was I don't know

678
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:18,600
Speaker 2: how she was. She's a little girl, not little little,

679
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:21,080
Speaker 2: but little whatever. Maybe she was twelve, I don't know.

680
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:26,960
Speaker 2: But she said to me, who do you love the

681
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:31,560
Speaker 2: most in the world? And maybe she was younger, I

682
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:34,640
Speaker 2: can't whatever. I don't remember anything anymore, but but I

683
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:36,359
Speaker 2: remember she said it to me. And I was very

684
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:39,279
Speaker 2: conscious when I said to her, I want because I

685
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:42,120
Speaker 2: thought I want her to feel safe, right, And I

686
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:45,719
Speaker 2: said I love Daddy the most, which is a big Obviously,

687
00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:47,960
Speaker 2: I think I made a big mistake. But I did it.

688
00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:52,920
Speaker 2: I did it very I did. I made it. I

689
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:56,960
Speaker 2: made it very like purposely because I thought for I

690
00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:58,399
Speaker 2: don't know why I would think that that that would

691
00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:01,840
Speaker 2: just make her feel like mommy and Daddy. You know,

692
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:06,799
Speaker 2: I don't know what secure right. Anyway, she had a fit.

693
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:10,759
Speaker 2: She bitched, such a fit, the screaming exact Zack, do

694
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:12,920
Speaker 2: you do that? Oh my god, you see Rachel doing that?

695
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:15,360
Speaker 2: You know what, Mab We just said, she said he

696
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:18,840
Speaker 2: loves daddy bust. It was insane, and then I'm like

697
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:20,680
Speaker 2: trying to backtrack. I'm like, no, I just said that.

698
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:23,640
Speaker 2: I don't really mean it, Rach. I love you guys

699
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:24,360
Speaker 2: the most.

700
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:28,360
Speaker 4: There's some good role modeling, Jenny, right, yes.

701
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:32,200
Speaker 2: Exactly, but like you know that sort of like prioritizing

702
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:36,000
Speaker 2: the kids, I would think should see you prioritize you

703
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:39,960
Speaker 2: know your partner absolutely to be more than even not

704
00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:40,480
Speaker 2: more than that.

705
00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:42,239
Speaker 4: What do you want them to learn? What do you

706
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:44,479
Speaker 4: want them to learn? I want them to learn love.

707
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:46,759
Speaker 4: You want them to learn partnership. You want them to

708
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:49,960
Speaker 4: learn friendship, you want them to learn togetheredness. Everything that

709
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:52,520
Speaker 4: I started with this at the beginning is what you're

710
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 4: role modeling on a daily basis.

711
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:55,759
Speaker 2: And we did not always do a great job of that.

712
00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:57,560
Speaker 2: But you know, well, now they're out of the house,

713
00:35:57,560 --> 00:35:58,920
Speaker 2: we're doing a really good job of it.

714
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 1: Well my kids are, and they don't love when we

715
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:04,320
Speaker 1: go out, and I like to go out fairly often,

716
00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:06,680
Speaker 1: and I think it's a good thing, yeah, for them

717
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:08,239
Speaker 1: to watch us, because I don't want them to grow

718
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:10,240
Speaker 1: up and think that you have to devote your entire

719
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:12,399
Speaker 1: life to just staying home with your kids. I mean,

720
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:15,080
Speaker 1: of course you have to prioritize your children, but I

721
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:16,360
Speaker 1: don't want them to just sit.

722
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:18,960
Speaker 2: Home, yeah with their kids. Yeah, No, I mean I

723
00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:19,399
Speaker 2: think of.

724
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:21,680
Speaker 4: I was just going to say.

725
00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:26,000
Speaker 3: The other thing is I hear literally daily, I hear

726
00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:28,719
Speaker 3: when there's our problems in the marriage and people are

727
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:31,439
Speaker 3: at the verge of divorcing or feeling that they want

728
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:32,920
Speaker 3: to do something different.

729
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:36,919
Speaker 4: To staying in the marriage for the children. I hear

730
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:38,399
Speaker 4: every day all day.

731
00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:39,879
Speaker 2: And when do you think if.

732
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:42,399
Speaker 3: They're older, when the kids are older, right when they

733
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:45,279
Speaker 3: go to college, then we'll reevaluate. But right now, we

734
00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:46,919
Speaker 3: don't want to do that to the kids. We don't

735
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:48,160
Speaker 3: want to separate from the kids.

736
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:49,080
Speaker 2: What do you think of that?

737
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:55,719
Speaker 3: I mean, I always tell people that you can't be

738
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:58,640
Speaker 3: in a marriage for your children. You're wasting a lot

739
00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:00,560
Speaker 3: of years. You got to look at your own happiness

740
00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:04,239
Speaker 3: and you stay in a marriage for the things that

741
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:06,680
Speaker 3: you get from it. You don't stay in a marriage

742
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:08,360
Speaker 3: for the things that you're fearful of losing.

743
00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:14,560
Speaker 2: Wow, I love that. I mean, I I just picturing

744
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:19,280
Speaker 2: scenarios where it is, you know, unhealthy for the kids

745
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:21,239
Speaker 2: to separate. I would think that is you have to

746
00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:25,920
Speaker 2: prioritize that at some level, like even if you can coexist,

747
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:30,279
Speaker 2: then isn't that better for the kids then you know,

748
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:32,680
Speaker 2: a separated household.

749
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:35,720
Speaker 4: But I don't. I mean, again, I don't agree. Where's

750
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:38,760
Speaker 4: the role modeling? Then? What role modeling are you teaching

751
00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:40,239
Speaker 4: your children at that point?

752
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:43,600
Speaker 1: I mean a lot of friends in unhappy marriages that

753
00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:46,160
Speaker 1: just stay because the whole idea of being single again

754
00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:50,960
Speaker 1: and living alone and honestly not seeing your kids all

755
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:55,080
Speaker 1: the time is completely overwhelming, and staying together in an

756
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:58,200
Speaker 1: unhappy relationship is just so much easier.

757
00:37:58,480 --> 00:37:58,840
Speaker 4: People.

758
00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:04,239
Speaker 1: I've heard quite often people say all men cheap. I

759
00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:07,640
Speaker 1: happen to not think that's true, but realistically.

760
00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:10,879
Speaker 2: Not everyone gets caught. How many relationships do you think

761
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:11,920
Speaker 2: that there is adultery?

762
00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:16,440
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, I think that there is a

763
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:20,160
Speaker 3: big percentage. I wish I had my my notes on

764
00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:21,879
Speaker 3: me because I get asked this question all the time,

765
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:24,239
Speaker 3: and a fifty four I can't ever remember anything. So

766
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:28,160
Speaker 3: I mean, I definitely think there's a percentage that's you know,

767
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:31,160
Speaker 3: maybe twenty percent, but I think I don't think it's half.

768
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:34,120
Speaker 3: I think there are many men in this world that

769
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:39,319
Speaker 3: are committed and loving and kind and respectful and want

770
00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:42,200
Speaker 3: the same thing as you know. But I also don't

771
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:45,360
Speaker 3: think it's the end all be all either, Right, So

772
00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:48,160
Speaker 3: it happens, and if it happens, what are we going

773
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:50,000
Speaker 3: to do. We're going to go and we're going to

774
00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:52,880
Speaker 3: make our relationship hopefully, we're going to nurture it, do

775
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:54,960
Speaker 3: the things I'm talking about, and we're going to move

776
00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:58,360
Speaker 3: forward healthier, right, and happier, and we won't be the

777
00:38:58,440 --> 00:38:59,720
Speaker 3: old US, but we'll.

778
00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:01,200
Speaker 4: Be a new, anew US.

779
00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:03,880
Speaker 3: That's that's you know, well and improved, and that's what

780
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:07,520
Speaker 3: we're looking for. So I don't know, I don't agree

781
00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:09,960
Speaker 3: with that all men cheat, absolutely not meither thine.

782
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:16,080
Speaker 2: More men cheat than women. No, really really interesting, maybe

783
00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:18,240
Speaker 2: not misdaining. Maybe back in the day it was different.

784
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:21,440
Speaker 3: But I can tell you if I think of my

785
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:24,040
Speaker 3: caseload right now, it's probably fifty to fifty.

786
00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:27,840
Speaker 2: Wowly sally, Yeah, interesting.

787
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:28,560
Speaker 4: And that's my caseload.

788
00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:30,760
Speaker 3: I don't know what it is, you know, with other people,

789
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:33,160
Speaker 3: but with what I what I see, I would say

790
00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:37,400
Speaker 3: it's pretty equal. Okay, maybe maybe a slight tilt to

791
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:40,279
Speaker 3: the men, but not really that much, not that significantly.

792
00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:42,640
Speaker 2: I have we have like we could go on and on,

793
00:39:42,719 --> 00:39:46,200
Speaker 2: like I have questions that are like not even we

794
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:49,600
Speaker 2: haven't even touched upon, like women that I know that

795
00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:52,920
Speaker 2: would never like Jeff walks into this house and I

796
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:56,360
Speaker 2: am Jackie. I think you're different. Like you've said to

797
00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:58,120
Speaker 2: me that like he walks in, I don't think there's

798
00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:00,000
Speaker 2: a day that he walks in that I'm not in sweat,

799
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:04,440
Speaker 2: that's my hair in a frizzy ponytail, no makeup, like

800
00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:08,680
Speaker 2: in usually in bed with food on the crumbs on

801
00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:10,960
Speaker 2: the And you said you don't. I remember you said

802
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:13,520
Speaker 2: this man don't matter when that you do always like

803
00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:14,560
Speaker 2: to look put together with them.

804
00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:16,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, I like to look put I mean not obviously,

805
00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:19,600
Speaker 1: not when I'm going to bed, but yeah I'm not.

806
00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:22,000
Speaker 1: I've just never been the type that walks around with

807
00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:23,600
Speaker 1: like a scraggly pony in sweats.

808
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:25,320
Speaker 2: But that doesn't have to do with Evan, or doesn't.

809
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:27,480
Speaker 1: I mean, I also want to look attractive for him.

810
00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:29,799
Speaker 1: I don't know, I like looking good for him, and

811
00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:34,239
Speaker 1: he usually doesn't like bum around looking gross either.

812
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:35,879
Speaker 2: Well do you think that matters, Rob?

813
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:41,399
Speaker 3: I think it's it's it's yes, I mean I think

814
00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:44,680
Speaker 3: that it's if we're looking sexually and we're looking.

815
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:46,280
Speaker 4: Physically, we need to get into sex.

816
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:49,759
Speaker 3: No, we did, and we missed the intimacy piece with

817
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:51,640
Speaker 3: women that are you know our age.

818
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:54,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, listen, I have a healthy sex life, but like

819
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:56,960
Speaker 1: for a lot of women, they are between the child

820
00:40:57,000 --> 00:41:00,840
Speaker 1: responsibilities and work and every else in life.

821
00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:03,879
Speaker 2: Like it's just not doesn't happen. Well, Jack, we had

822
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:06,600
Speaker 2: a podcast about sex and we talked about the fact

823
00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:10,279
Speaker 2: that there are you know, women not just on reality TV,

824
00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:13,000
Speaker 2: but in general that's claimed they have sex, you know,

825
00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:15,439
Speaker 2: not only multiple times a week, multiple times a night,

826
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:18,560
Speaker 2: and there's you know this a lot of sex talk.

827
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:20,799
Speaker 2: And it certainly at my age, Jack, maybe not as

828
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:23,640
Speaker 2: much as yours, but it is not a priority. Only

829
00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:26,040
Speaker 2: after twenty years of marriages, there's just not a priority

830
00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:27,799
Speaker 2: like it used to be. But you know, as you

831
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:29,879
Speaker 2: get to be our age, I know that for men

832
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:32,880
Speaker 2: at least, this is what I know. For my friends,

833
00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:34,239
Speaker 2: this is not I'm not saying I know this for

834
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:38,880
Speaker 2: a fact, but they want Most of my friends, the

835
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:41,719
Speaker 2: husbands or the partners want sex a lot more than

836
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:45,160
Speaker 2: the women do. And how to kind of reconcile that, right,

837
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:48,520
Speaker 2: And how much does that affect a marriage if there's

838
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:52,239
Speaker 2: you know, as women get older physically you become it

839
00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:55,880
Speaker 2: becomes less enjoyable, like period, right, unless you use hormones

840
00:41:55,920 --> 00:42:00,960
Speaker 2: and all of that. But the cravings I think for women,

841
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:05,640
Speaker 2: the women that I know, definitely go down, right, And

842
00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:07,400
Speaker 2: how to navigate that in a marriage or in a

843
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:09,719
Speaker 2: partnership too, I.

844
00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:12,080
Speaker 4: Mean, I think it definitely women.

845
00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:16,680
Speaker 3: Menopause definitely changes things a lot, but so does children, right, So,

846
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:21,440
Speaker 3: and so I think Jackie, you had asked this, I

847
00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:24,240
Speaker 3: think ahead of time or someone asked me this about

848
00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:28,759
Speaker 3: you know, scheduling sex, right, So sometimes it's not as

849
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:30,160
Speaker 3: much about how often.

850
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:32,120
Speaker 4: It's about making sure that it.

851
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:35,319
Speaker 3: Is a priority and fitting in as a balance with

852
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:37,920
Speaker 3: the other things that are important in our lives. And

853
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:41,319
Speaker 3: at different ages, there's different things that are priorities, right,

854
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:44,480
Speaker 3: So I think it just depends. But scheduling sex, to me,

855
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:47,239
Speaker 3: when you have crazy life and you have children, and

856
00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:50,160
Speaker 3: you have activities and jobs and all those things, I

857
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:52,239
Speaker 3: don't care if you put it on the calendar. I

858
00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:53,520
Speaker 3: think it's a healthy thing to do.

859
00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:56,880
Speaker 1: Good because we quite often have to schedule sex, and

860
00:42:56,960 --> 00:42:59,880
Speaker 1: I would absolutely. I've always wondered if that just just

861
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:04,640
Speaker 1: joys the intimacy that that part of it, Like we're

862
00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:06,520
Speaker 1: like Thursday, nine thirty, can you we call it a

863
00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:08,279
Speaker 1: conference call so that my kids, I hope my kids

864
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:08,920
Speaker 1: listen to.

865
00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:12,239
Speaker 2: This, so that they don't, you know, die of embarrassment.

866
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:14,560
Speaker 2: But we do know.

867
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:17,320
Speaker 4: I think, yes, I think it's I think.

868
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:19,120
Speaker 2: And what do you do in the marriages where where

869
00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:21,399
Speaker 2: the one of the partners wants it and so much

870
00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:28,160
Speaker 2: more than the other. What, Just like.

871
00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:32,120
Speaker 3: Everything else, I guess it's it's about we have to

872
00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:35,200
Speaker 3: make sure that we're nurturing the other parts that create intimacy,

873
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:40,040
Speaker 3: the emotional, the physical, the affection, the conversation, the things

874
00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:44,680
Speaker 3: that may be additionally fuel us in terms of how

875
00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:48,479
Speaker 3: we feel, and with sex as well, and partners aren't

876
00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:50,800
Speaker 3: going to be on the same page. So, like everything else,

877
00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:54,840
Speaker 3: success in marriage is based on compromise, and it's based

878
00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:57,200
Speaker 3: on an ability to vent our needs and our wants.

879
00:43:57,400 --> 00:43:59,600
Speaker 3: That's the other main thing that keeps a marriage together

880
00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:04,080
Speaker 3: is ability to vent and making sure that again we're

881
00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:08,600
Speaker 3: putting ourselves in each other's subjective reality, right, shared meaning,

882
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:11,680
Speaker 3: and if something's more important to one person than the other.

883
00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:14,239
Speaker 3: Then we need to find a compromise. So it's not

884
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:15,680
Speaker 3: all the time, it's a compromise.

885
00:44:15,719 --> 00:44:17,880
Speaker 2: So is that saying because I would I hear like

886
00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:23,440
Speaker 2: women in the back of my head saying you should

887
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:26,040
Speaker 2: never have sex if you don't feel like it, Like,

888
00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:28,000
Speaker 2: I'm sure that a lot of that's probably a pretty

889
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:30,120
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't want to get myself in

890
00:44:30,200 --> 00:44:32,960
Speaker 2: trouble here, but a little bit of a fit, right right? Yeah?

891
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:40,240
Speaker 2: And is it healthy to have sex because your partner

892
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:45,960
Speaker 2: really wants it and you want to make them happy physically,

893
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:47,440
Speaker 2: even if you're not in the mood.

894
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:50,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, I do think it's okay.

895
00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:53,879
Speaker 3: So I might get about a backlash on this too,

896
00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:56,520
Speaker 3: based on the world we live in today. But if

897
00:44:56,520 --> 00:45:00,359
Speaker 3: I'm going from the perspective of shared meaning, and I'm

898
00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:03,320
Speaker 3: going from a place of real love and a desire

899
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:06,320
Speaker 3: for connection, and I'm not saying all the time, but yes,

900
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:09,520
Speaker 3: if there is this a night and I'm absolutely exhausted

901
00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:11,400
Speaker 3: or I had a terrible day and I'm in a

902
00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:15,240
Speaker 3: terrible mood, am I then gonna force myself to do something?

903
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:18,560
Speaker 3: Probably not. But if it's just it's one of those

904
00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:21,080
Speaker 3: nights and I just, you know, rather go to bed

905
00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:23,840
Speaker 3: and my husband is into it. There's other things we

906
00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:26,360
Speaker 3: can do to be intimate, right, we don't have to

907
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:28,600
Speaker 3: have sex. There are other things we can do physically

908
00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:30,920
Speaker 3: and sexually without having intercourse.

909
00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:34,000
Speaker 4: Other things that we can do.

910
00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:40,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a whole lot of conversation with you, sister.

911
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:43,520
Speaker 2: I love this.

912
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:45,719
Speaker 1: I thought it was so good too. It makes me

913
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:49,600
Speaker 1: feel very fortunate. But I do recognize things that you know,

914
00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:52,680
Speaker 1: Evan wants that I tell him to go do on

915
00:45:52,719 --> 00:45:56,000
Speaker 1: his own, that I could probably give more of myself too.

916
00:45:56,880 --> 00:46:01,399
Speaker 2: But also, like I don't like we have when we

917
00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:03,960
Speaker 2: there are things like the football thing, Rob, that my

918
00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:07,200
Speaker 2: husband is obsessed with football. Like I was never going

919
00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:11,279
Speaker 2: to become a football wife. I wasn't gonna sit down,

920
00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:15,480
Speaker 2: you know and watch football games on Sundays, but Robin

921
00:46:15,640 --> 00:46:17,959
Speaker 2: mentioned that. Yes, Like more recently, I had a friend

922
00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:19,520
Speaker 2: kind of explained to me. I was like, it just

923
00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:21,400
Speaker 2: became a little more enjoyable that I could share that

924
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:24,160
Speaker 2: with him. But he also was never like he never

925
00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:27,560
Speaker 2: gave me shit about it. Like Jeff. In his family,

926
00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:31,239
Speaker 2: there have been Giant season Giants season tickets for since

927
00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:33,600
Speaker 2: Jeff was a little boy. Right, there were eight of

928
00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:37,080
Speaker 2: them and I went to one game. Now that maybe

929
00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:40,560
Speaker 2: is a marriage counselor that wasn't ideal, But I don't

930
00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:42,080
Speaker 2: really think he gave a shit. I think he almost

931
00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:45,399
Speaker 2: would rather have me not there, like annoying him during it.

932
00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:48,920
Speaker 2: But there are other things, Yeah.

933
00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:51,040
Speaker 4: If you have to figure out what are those things?

934
00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:53,160
Speaker 2: One the things he really wants me to do with him, right,

935
00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:55,200
Speaker 2: there are things, And I think the travel thing is

936
00:46:55,200 --> 00:47:00,759
Speaker 2: a good example, because he doesn't want to go see, uh,

937
00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:04,040
Speaker 2: whatever the historical sites are if we're both traveling to

938
00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:06,200
Speaker 2: a different country on his own and I want to

939
00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:08,520
Speaker 2: see some of them of course, but so trying to

940
00:47:08,520 --> 00:47:13,480
Speaker 2: find some compromise there. Yeah, right, well we've solved all

941
00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:15,879
Speaker 2: the marriage problems in the world. Who our listeners must

942
00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:22,440
Speaker 2: be so happy, everybody, go forth and have go geta yes,

943
00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:26,560
Speaker 2: exactly exactly. Thank you, this is amazing. You're amazing.

944
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:29,520
Speaker 4: Good lung with you, guys. Thank you so much for

945
00:47:29,560 --> 00:47:29,920
Speaker 4: having me.

946
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:34,440
Speaker 3: I appreciate it and love you, Robbie, love you so much, Bye, honey.

947
00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:35,879
Speaker 2: So a few things.

948
00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:37,640
Speaker 1: First of all, you know Tiki Barber was on the

949
00:47:37,640 --> 00:47:39,959
Speaker 1: show for one season, yes, like right before you guys,

950
00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:42,759
Speaker 1: came along. Yeah, Jeff would have liked that.

951
00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:47,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Jeff would have died he We

952
00:47:47,160 --> 00:47:51,680
Speaker 2: were at Melissa Gorgo's for a Christmas Eve, I don't

953
00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:53,840
Speaker 2: know how many years ago, and then not many, No

954
00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:56,759
Speaker 2: Melissa for ten years but whatever, And there were these

955
00:47:56,800 --> 00:48:01,759
Speaker 2: two football players and I don't even remember what those

956
00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:05,239
Speaker 2: who are those football players at the Gorgas that Christmas?

957
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:08,719
Speaker 2: Oh justin talk? Oh you were there. No, I wasn't there,

958
00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:10,360
Speaker 2: but I know that they were friendly with them. I

959
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:17,320
Speaker 2: think John John, Pierre Paul. Anyway, whatever, the point is that.

960
00:48:17,239 --> 00:48:19,360
Speaker 1: The guy who he's the guy who blew off his

961
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:20,280
Speaker 1: finger with a firecracker.

962
00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:26,160
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, yes, see I do know football. Yeah whatever,

963
00:48:26,239 --> 00:48:29,160
Speaker 2: oh on the Jets doesn't matter, It doesn't matter for

964
00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:33,280
Speaker 2: our purposes. The point is that, I mean, my husband

965
00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:37,120
Speaker 2: lit up like a Christmas tree. It was like me

966
00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:44,120
Speaker 2: running into I don't know, mad Madonna. It was just

967
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:48,240
Speaker 2: so crazy, like his passion is it runs really really deep.

968
00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:50,600
Speaker 2: I don't know what my point in that is other

969
00:48:50,680 --> 00:48:54,680
Speaker 2: than he's obsessed and I really haven't been. And but

970
00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:56,839
Speaker 2: there are other things like so I compromise on on

971
00:48:57,120 --> 00:49:00,680
Speaker 2: what I can. I guess I know he compromises for sure. Yeah,

972
00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:03,640
Speaker 2: like I am. I think I'm harder than he is.

973
00:49:03,719 --> 00:49:07,120
Speaker 2: For instance, on the weekends, you know, Jeff is working

974
00:49:07,160 --> 00:49:09,000
Speaker 2: all week and he likes to go out. I would

975
00:49:09,080 --> 00:49:12,279
Speaker 2: rather on any day. I'd rather stay home like any night.

976
00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:17,400
Speaker 2: So I won't go out two nights on a weekend

977
00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:18,760
Speaker 2: unless we have like real plans.

978
00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:21,640
Speaker 1: That is the exact opposite of my marriage. Yeah, and

979
00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:25,759
Speaker 1: Evan likes to only go out like one time a week,

980
00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:26,640
Speaker 1: which I respect you.

981
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:28,319
Speaker 2: I don't even want to go out sometimes once.

982
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:32,120
Speaker 1: He also coaches my kids basketball like all weekends and

983
00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:37,080
Speaker 1: several nights a week. And I like to go out

984
00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:40,279
Speaker 1: a lot, at least I don't.

985
00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:42,400
Speaker 2: If you look at my social media, it seems that

986
00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:44,200
Speaker 2: I like to go out a lot, but I don't.

987
00:49:44,280 --> 00:49:47,439
Speaker 2: I really, I really am a homebody. But I will

988
00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:51,799
Speaker 2: make myself get up and either make plans or go

989
00:49:51,840 --> 00:49:53,600
Speaker 2: out just because he wants you. That's not even a

990
00:49:53,640 --> 00:49:56,279
Speaker 2: great example. But there's so many compromises that I think

991
00:49:56,320 --> 00:49:59,399
Speaker 2: that we've you know, learned to make over the years,

992
00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:02,160
Speaker 2: and we are not. I don't want to, you know,

993
00:50:02,320 --> 00:50:06,840
Speaker 2: represent us as the poster children for an ideal marriage.

994
00:50:06,840 --> 00:50:09,160
Speaker 2: We have our we still obviously after all these years.

995
00:50:09,160 --> 00:50:11,600
Speaker 2: We have a lot of stuff, like everyone does.

996
00:50:11,840 --> 00:50:14,040
Speaker 1: But it's yeah, but I can tell by the way

997
00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:15,840
Speaker 1: that you talk about your husband.

998
00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:16,239
Speaker 2: I can.

999
00:50:16,320 --> 00:50:18,320
Speaker 1: I mean, I've had plenty of conversations with my girlfriends

1000
00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:20,880
Speaker 1: about their husbands, and I can just sense when there's

1001
00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:24,400
Speaker 1: just constant frustration or when there's the occasional frustration, but

1002
00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:25,120
Speaker 1: so much love.

1003
00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:26,759
Speaker 2: And you and Jeff love each other so much.

1004
00:50:26,680 --> 00:50:29,120
Speaker 1: Which is amazing to me because I always grew up

1005
00:50:29,160 --> 00:50:31,839
Speaker 1: with this mindset of like, you cheat, it's over right,

1006
00:50:32,120 --> 00:50:34,680
Speaker 1: you know, And I think young girls are kind of

1007
00:50:34,719 --> 00:50:39,680
Speaker 1: taught that, like your spouse cheats on you and it's done.

1008
00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:43,560
Speaker 2: I feel very lucky about that. And I can't really

1009
00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:46,319
Speaker 2: explain how we got here. I just feel lucky that

1010
00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:50,560
Speaker 2: we did. But I would say that more than anything,

1011
00:50:50,600 --> 00:50:53,680
Speaker 2: And it's the first thing that Robin pointed to. We

1012
00:50:53,800 --> 00:50:57,719
Speaker 2: are best friends and he we are allies, so not

1013
00:50:57,960 --> 00:50:59,560
Speaker 2: you know, doesn't mean that we don't have that we

1014
00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:05,560
Speaker 2: don't fight, but when something happens, you know, big, not

1015
00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:08,200
Speaker 2: always small. But but he's my always, my first phone

1016
00:51:08,200 --> 00:51:11,239
Speaker 2: call when I'm upset, when I'm I mean, girlfriends are different, right,

1017
00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:14,320
Speaker 2: There are things that I can talk to my girlfriends

1018
00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:17,520
Speaker 2: about that. I wouldn't talk to Jeff about But in general,

1019
00:51:17,920 --> 00:51:22,080
Speaker 2: like you know, we're just we're a team, and that

1020
00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:24,480
Speaker 2: is what I hope. I hope, hope, hope for my

1021
00:51:24,560 --> 00:51:28,759
Speaker 2: kids if they find someone and who can you know,

1022
00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:31,839
Speaker 2: be on the team with them, and I hope they

1023
00:51:31,840 --> 00:51:37,879
Speaker 2: have wonderful intimate relationships. But from where I sit, it's

1024
00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:41,000
Speaker 2: the most important thing is to feel that friendship. You know. Yeah,

1025
00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:44,319
Speaker 2: I agree with you. I love this. I love it too. Yeah,

1026
00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:48,120
Speaker 2: so it's good, all right, you guys. We are two

1027
00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:50,400
Speaker 2: Jersey days now. I was gonna say, I'm gonna go

1028
00:51:50,440 --> 00:51:52,239
Speaker 2: home and have sex with my husband, but I mean,

1029
00:51:52,280 --> 00:51:53,680
Speaker 2: I don't know how that led to this. So I'm

1030
00:51:53,680 --> 00:51:55,440
Speaker 2: gonna go, I'm gonna I'm gonna get off the phone

1031
00:51:55,480 --> 00:51:58,120
Speaker 2: and uh definitely not have sex with my husband, but

1032
00:51:58,160 --> 00:51:59,640
Speaker 2: I'll compromise in another way today.

1033
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:03,800
Speaker 1: Okay, So we're two Jersey jays. Thank you for listening,

1034
00:52:03,920 --> 00:52:05,560
Speaker 1: Thanks guys for showing you.

1035
00:52:05,600 --> 00:52:09,359
Speaker 2: Bye mm

1036
00:52:11,120 --> 00:52:13,239
Speaker 3: Hm hm