1 00:00:15,476 --> 00:00:23,196 Speaker 1: Pushkin. Canadian born singer songwriter Feist has been one of 2 00:00:23,236 --> 00:00:26,676 Speaker 1: the most dynamic indie voices of the last two decades. 3 00:00:27,396 --> 00:00:30,316 Speaker 1: She scored international fame early in her career, thanks in 4 00:00:30,356 --> 00:00:33,996 Speaker 1: part to a nano iPod commercial featuring the song one, two, 5 00:00:34,236 --> 00:00:38,036 Speaker 1: three four, But for fans of Feist, her appeal lies 6 00:00:38,076 --> 00:00:42,476 Speaker 1: in how she mines her complex emotional life. Just last month, 7 00:00:42,596 --> 00:00:47,036 Speaker 1: Feist released her sixth album, Multitudes. She recorded it in 8 00:00:47,036 --> 00:00:51,476 Speaker 1: the aftermath of tremendous personal loss and change. In late 9 00:00:51,516 --> 00:00:54,876 Speaker 1: twenty nineteen, Feist adopted a baby just months before the 10 00:00:54,916 --> 00:00:58,876 Speaker 1: pandemic started. About a year later, her father died suddenly. 11 00:00:59,916 --> 00:01:03,076 Speaker 1: Multitudes is a raw and intimate look at how she 12 00:01:03,116 --> 00:01:06,556 Speaker 1: grappled with deep seated grief and a new kind of love. 13 00:01:07,396 --> 00:01:10,436 Speaker 1: On today's episode, Lea Rose time with Feist about how 14 00:01:10,596 --> 00:01:15,076 Speaker 1: being assaulted in high school ultimately led to her gaining resilience. 15 00:01:15,756 --> 00:01:18,876 Speaker 1: Feist also remembers the day her music career began when 16 00:01:18,916 --> 00:01:21,676 Speaker 1: she was asked to front a hardcore band, and how 17 00:01:21,756 --> 00:01:24,716 Speaker 1: screaming on stage and ultimately blowing out her voice forced 18 00:01:24,716 --> 00:01:31,276 Speaker 1: her to develop her intimate, career defining singing style. This 19 00:01:31,476 --> 00:01:34,716 Speaker 1: is broken record liner notes for the digital Age. I'm 20 00:01:34,836 --> 00:01:38,676 Speaker 1: justin Mitchman. Here's Lea Rose with Feist. 21 00:01:39,476 --> 00:01:43,516 Speaker 2: I have read the PR blurb about the new album, 22 00:01:43,556 --> 00:01:46,076 Speaker 2: but I would love to hear in your words, just 23 00:01:46,476 --> 00:01:49,196 Speaker 2: talk about how the project started to come together. 24 00:01:50,316 --> 00:01:55,476 Speaker 3: Yes, well, everything was pretty topsy turvy, there wasn't it. 25 00:01:55,516 --> 00:01:59,476 Speaker 3: I mean, there was a complete reframe. There was no 26 00:01:59,636 --> 00:02:02,036 Speaker 3: presumption of the way things used to be is the 27 00:02:02,036 --> 00:02:02,596 Speaker 3: way they're. 28 00:02:02,436 --> 00:02:02,796 Speaker 4: Going to be. 29 00:02:02,916 --> 00:02:07,836 Speaker 3: And interestingly, the outside world was sort of echoing what 30 00:02:07,916 --> 00:02:09,956 Speaker 3: was going on for me in my side world, which 31 00:02:09,996 --> 00:02:12,996 Speaker 3: was that nothing was to be presumed, nothing that had 32 00:02:13,036 --> 00:02:14,196 Speaker 3: been was going to be. 33 00:02:14,036 --> 00:02:17,036 Speaker 4: Because I had just become a mother right four months. 34 00:02:16,716 --> 00:02:20,236 Speaker 3: Before the pandemic started, so it was sort of a 35 00:02:20,276 --> 00:02:25,836 Speaker 3: double down of complete reassessment. And you know, a friend 36 00:02:25,836 --> 00:02:28,596 Speaker 3: of mine said something that has become unfortunately so true. 37 00:02:29,036 --> 00:02:33,396 Speaker 3: I mean, fortunately unfortunately that to become a parent is 38 00:02:33,636 --> 00:02:39,076 Speaker 3: to be incinerated and so true. But who rises from 39 00:02:39,076 --> 00:02:41,636 Speaker 3: the ashes is a more interesting person to be for 40 00:02:41,676 --> 00:02:44,116 Speaker 3: the rest of your life And I'm still working on that. 41 00:02:44,156 --> 00:02:46,276 Speaker 4: I'm trying to figure out if this is more interesting. 42 00:02:47,476 --> 00:02:51,316 Speaker 2: Yeah, but that I know, it's like I just feel 43 00:02:51,356 --> 00:02:56,156 Speaker 2: like a like depleted version. But hopefully eventually more interesting. 44 00:02:56,356 --> 00:02:57,996 Speaker 3: Well, the way I've been looking at it is the 45 00:02:58,076 --> 00:03:02,516 Speaker 3: person who decided to the person who felt capable of 46 00:03:02,556 --> 00:03:05,356 Speaker 3: being a mother to decided to become a mother, she 47 00:03:05,556 --> 00:03:06,196 Speaker 3: was actually not. 48 00:03:06,236 --> 00:03:09,676 Speaker 4: Very useful and not very helpful a monther. 49 00:03:11,076 --> 00:03:14,916 Speaker 3: So you know, that was then echoed by the whole 50 00:03:14,956 --> 00:03:17,796 Speaker 3: world kind of being uncomfortable with their former selves that 51 00:03:17,836 --> 00:03:20,716 Speaker 3: didn't serve them anymore in this new context. And every 52 00:03:20,836 --> 00:03:23,076 Speaker 3: I felt like everywhere I looked, anyone close to me, 53 00:03:23,556 --> 00:03:26,876 Speaker 3: let alone kind of collectively, there was just this crucible 54 00:03:26,916 --> 00:03:30,716 Speaker 3: that was just incinerating every presumption that came from a 55 00:03:30,716 --> 00:03:34,756 Speaker 3: previous time, you know. And so songs kind of they 56 00:03:34,916 --> 00:03:37,516 Speaker 3: became what they're they always have been to me, but 57 00:03:37,716 --> 00:03:40,396 Speaker 3: like they certainly were even more so a kind of 58 00:03:40,436 --> 00:03:44,476 Speaker 3: a habit that I returned to that brought me comfort 59 00:03:44,636 --> 00:03:47,436 Speaker 3: or like a it might be in that incineration, some 60 00:03:47,676 --> 00:03:51,996 Speaker 3: last living arm lunged out of the quicksand like ah 61 00:03:52,156 --> 00:03:54,916 Speaker 3: and grabbed it a little filament of a former self 62 00:03:54,996 --> 00:03:59,116 Speaker 3: or something, because I found it really helped me to 63 00:04:00,276 --> 00:04:03,236 Speaker 3: use some of those wee hours and those sort of 64 00:04:03,236 --> 00:04:09,236 Speaker 3: that liminal state of pure exhaustion and to open myself 65 00:04:09,276 --> 00:04:13,596 Speaker 3: to that and a lot of new things and new 66 00:04:13,636 --> 00:04:17,516 Speaker 3: parts of me were very slowly given a little a 67 00:04:17,556 --> 00:04:20,396 Speaker 3: place to you know, work out. 68 00:04:20,276 --> 00:04:22,996 Speaker 4: What that was going to look like in the form 69 00:04:23,036 --> 00:04:23,636 Speaker 4: of songs. 70 00:04:23,676 --> 00:04:26,956 Speaker 3: So it was, you know, kind of like a like 71 00:04:27,076 --> 00:04:30,956 Speaker 3: some people return to hiking, or they get they go swimming, 72 00:04:31,076 --> 00:04:33,836 Speaker 3: clear their head, they you know, whatever they've done their 73 00:04:33,836 --> 00:04:36,476 Speaker 3: whole life to return to a kind of a privacy 74 00:04:36,596 --> 00:04:39,836 Speaker 3: that is going to maybe help them like untangle something. 75 00:04:40,636 --> 00:04:43,596 Speaker 3: In my very fortunate case, I've always found that in 76 00:04:43,636 --> 00:04:46,716 Speaker 3: writing a song over the years, like I can put 77 00:04:46,756 --> 00:04:48,996 Speaker 3: almost every one of my songs has in some way 78 00:04:49,076 --> 00:04:53,396 Speaker 3: been my attempt to understand some unknowable moments. 79 00:04:53,956 --> 00:04:56,796 Speaker 2: Are there any songs on the new album that directly 80 00:04:56,876 --> 00:05:01,236 Speaker 2: relate to being a new parent that helped you articulate 81 00:05:01,316 --> 00:05:04,116 Speaker 2: something that you couldn't quite grasp before. 82 00:05:05,276 --> 00:05:08,436 Speaker 3: Well, I would say the only song that you know, 83 00:05:08,636 --> 00:05:12,916 Speaker 3: she will I was about her is the song Forever Before, 84 00:05:12,996 --> 00:05:15,556 Speaker 3: which I think might be the second song I think. 85 00:05:16,076 --> 00:05:21,836 Speaker 3: And it came from this idea that to commit so intentionally, 86 00:05:21,956 --> 00:05:27,356 Speaker 3: to walk so directly right towards the precipice of complete vulnerability, 87 00:05:27,996 --> 00:05:29,476 Speaker 3: is to become a mother. 88 00:05:29,876 --> 00:05:31,796 Speaker 4: And I had never begun a forever before. 89 00:05:32,116 --> 00:05:34,796 Speaker 3: I mean, that was sort of there was no sidling 90 00:05:34,836 --> 00:05:35,876 Speaker 3: out of that commitment. 91 00:05:35,956 --> 00:05:37,236 Speaker 4: It was a true commitment. 92 00:05:37,476 --> 00:05:39,556 Speaker 3: And you know, as much as I feel that I 93 00:05:39,556 --> 00:05:42,596 Speaker 3: have been committed to things in my life before, I've 94 00:05:42,956 --> 00:05:46,636 Speaker 3: shown all the way up to different things and different 95 00:05:47,236 --> 00:05:51,196 Speaker 3: relationships and different ways of thinking or ways of being, 96 00:05:51,956 --> 00:05:54,996 Speaker 3: the ways of relating, I had never done something that 97 00:05:55,036 --> 00:05:57,636 Speaker 3: could not be undone or that I hope will never 98 00:05:57,676 --> 00:05:58,396 Speaker 3: be undone. 99 00:05:58,476 --> 00:05:58,796 Speaker 1: It is. 100 00:05:59,396 --> 00:06:03,956 Speaker 3: It's the first one hundred percent, just like dive Dive in, 101 00:06:04,236 --> 00:06:07,276 Speaker 3: you know. And so that song kind of helped in 102 00:06:07,316 --> 00:06:10,796 Speaker 3: a way. It chronologically over the three verses, it's sort 103 00:06:10,796 --> 00:06:14,516 Speaker 3: of it's like a little parenthesis around maybe the years 104 00:06:14,596 --> 00:06:19,556 Speaker 3: leading up to understanding the basis of my life and 105 00:06:19,636 --> 00:06:23,596 Speaker 3: how it was no longer enough or something, and how 106 00:06:24,396 --> 00:06:28,356 Speaker 3: that I wanted to expand and make myself prone to 107 00:06:28,796 --> 00:06:29,436 Speaker 3: the unknown. 108 00:06:30,276 --> 00:06:30,596 Speaker 1: Yeah. 109 00:06:31,036 --> 00:06:34,876 Speaker 2: On your song Borrow Trouble, there's some lyrics that talk 110 00:06:34,916 --> 00:06:37,596 Speaker 2: about picturing a life that you are left out of 111 00:06:38,116 --> 00:06:42,116 Speaker 2: and how that is maybe different than what you imagined. 112 00:06:42,956 --> 00:06:46,196 Speaker 2: And it seems to me like you're now trying to 113 00:06:46,276 --> 00:06:49,676 Speaker 2: appreciate a life that you've created for yourself. 114 00:06:50,756 --> 00:06:54,356 Speaker 3: Yeah, I would say I found the idea years ago 115 00:06:54,436 --> 00:06:57,716 Speaker 3: that like, if I can't make it better, if it's 116 00:06:57,756 --> 00:06:59,836 Speaker 3: out of with it, not within my power to make 117 00:06:59,876 --> 00:07:01,956 Speaker 3: it better, it being what, you know, whatever I'm in 118 00:07:01,996 --> 00:07:06,276 Speaker 3: the midst of trying to face or solve like psychicalge 119 00:07:06,316 --> 00:07:08,356 Speaker 3: break equation of like solve for X. 120 00:07:08,436 --> 00:07:09,796 Speaker 4: It's like the X is. 121 00:07:09,756 --> 00:07:11,916 Speaker 3: Ever changing and it is ever present, and it's just 122 00:07:11,916 --> 00:07:14,396 Speaker 3: going to shape shift and always be something to me 123 00:07:14,556 --> 00:07:17,116 Speaker 3: to solve. And if I can't make it better, at 124 00:07:17,236 --> 00:07:19,516 Speaker 3: least I can learn how to not make it worse. 125 00:07:19,956 --> 00:07:24,876 Speaker 3: And to not make it worse means to not spin 126 00:07:24,996 --> 00:07:30,236 Speaker 3: my wheels in and concretized thinking or learning actually what 127 00:07:30,276 --> 00:07:33,316 Speaker 3: the mechanics of passive aggressivity is and what it is 128 00:07:33,396 --> 00:07:36,276 Speaker 3: to And that's another thing about to commit to the 129 00:07:36,276 --> 00:07:38,476 Speaker 3: words that come out of your mouth. It's sort of 130 00:07:38,516 --> 00:07:41,756 Speaker 3: bootcamp for committing to the steps you take towards in 131 00:07:41,796 --> 00:07:45,316 Speaker 3: which directions and all of that, I guess is it's 132 00:07:45,556 --> 00:07:48,516 Speaker 3: sort of been the quiet background of all the work 133 00:07:48,516 --> 00:07:52,396 Speaker 3: I've done in my life and my mind. And as 134 00:07:52,676 --> 00:07:57,036 Speaker 3: art imitates life, songs the songs these songs in particular 135 00:07:57,076 --> 00:08:01,556 Speaker 3: have taken the form of like a roadmap or as 136 00:08:01,556 --> 00:08:05,356 Speaker 3: we all self mythologize, you know, in our you don't. 137 00:08:05,396 --> 00:08:08,956 Speaker 3: And as friends who work very different they have different jobs. 138 00:08:09,236 --> 00:08:13,996 Speaker 3: Me friends who don't get a response from the world 139 00:08:14,036 --> 00:08:17,396 Speaker 3: about what their work is. They say, Hey, don't kid yourself. 140 00:08:17,596 --> 00:08:21,116 Speaker 3: I have the exact same self mythologizing. I invest in 141 00:08:21,956 --> 00:08:24,156 Speaker 3: the lore of my life. What is you know, the 142 00:08:24,196 --> 00:08:26,636 Speaker 3: background of my childhood and what it did to me 143 00:08:26,676 --> 00:08:29,836 Speaker 3: and how it created the expectations that I then had 144 00:08:29,876 --> 00:08:30,476 Speaker 3: to fight to. 145 00:08:30,876 --> 00:08:33,356 Speaker 4: You know, It's just that in my case, I work 146 00:08:33,396 --> 00:08:36,796 Speaker 4: it out in this way that can then be like a. 147 00:08:36,356 --> 00:08:39,356 Speaker 3: Silly, petty puzzle piece that someone people can take it 148 00:08:39,396 --> 00:08:42,876 Speaker 3: and then reform it to fit the puzzle that they're 149 00:08:42,876 --> 00:08:44,036 Speaker 3: trying to solve. You know. 150 00:08:44,916 --> 00:08:49,156 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm curious, like, what were you like in high school? 151 00:08:50,756 --> 00:08:51,556 Speaker 2: What were you into? 152 00:08:51,916 --> 00:08:51,996 Speaker 3: Like? 153 00:08:51,996 --> 00:08:53,796 Speaker 2: What kind of kid were you in high school? 154 00:08:54,436 --> 00:08:59,556 Speaker 3: Well? I suppose I was probably kind of shy, but 155 00:08:59,836 --> 00:09:02,436 Speaker 3: I also had started to go to all the punk 156 00:09:02,476 --> 00:09:07,036 Speaker 3: shows in my town, and I had assumed the exterior 157 00:09:07,156 --> 00:09:09,636 Speaker 3: of looking other than what I was on the inside. 158 00:09:09,636 --> 00:09:12,316 Speaker 3: And I was sort of you know, I had piercings 159 00:09:12,356 --> 00:09:14,796 Speaker 3: and shaved my head and it was manic. Panic was 160 00:09:15,316 --> 00:09:17,636 Speaker 3: and I went to a pretty conservative high school, and 161 00:09:18,716 --> 00:09:21,796 Speaker 3: maybe in the first couple of maybe the first month 162 00:09:21,916 --> 00:09:24,956 Speaker 3: or two or something of my first year of high school, 163 00:09:25,156 --> 00:09:28,716 Speaker 3: I was attacked by a group of guys, not like 164 00:09:29,276 --> 00:09:31,396 Speaker 3: I mean here I am making excuses for them, like 165 00:09:31,436 --> 00:09:32,556 Speaker 3: not violently, but come on. 166 00:09:32,676 --> 00:09:33,396 Speaker 4: Like I was. 167 00:09:33,436 --> 00:09:36,036 Speaker 3: Lifted up and slammed into a wall and handcuffed to 168 00:09:36,116 --> 00:09:40,476 Speaker 3: a door. And then I've actually never told this story 169 00:09:40,756 --> 00:09:43,396 Speaker 3: except to friends, but at this point I kind of 170 00:09:43,476 --> 00:09:47,356 Speaker 3: understand how this was. All The adversity I was against 171 00:09:47,516 --> 00:09:50,036 Speaker 3: was like ultimately helpful but very difficult. 172 00:09:50,156 --> 00:09:53,276 Speaker 4: But the whole student body, you know, no one came 173 00:09:53,316 --> 00:09:55,436 Speaker 4: to my aid. They created kind of like a. 174 00:09:55,396 --> 00:10:00,076 Speaker 3: Giant school size semi circle around me, and you know, 175 00:10:00,236 --> 00:10:05,036 Speaker 3: laughed and jeered and snickered, and then we're shoed into 176 00:10:05,036 --> 00:10:09,996 Speaker 3: the cafeteria. And then the vice principal, I guess, after 177 00:10:10,036 --> 00:10:12,916 Speaker 3: like half an hour or something, I got un handcuffed 178 00:10:13,476 --> 00:10:17,116 Speaker 3: and was completely in shock. And then he he was like, 179 00:10:17,276 --> 00:10:18,996 Speaker 3: who did this? And I said, I don't know. They 180 00:10:18,996 --> 00:10:21,956 Speaker 3: came up from behind me, and he said, that's why 181 00:10:21,956 --> 00:10:24,476 Speaker 3: we don't want kids like you here. And then he 182 00:10:24,996 --> 00:10:27,796 Speaker 3: made me walk through the entire cafeteria in front of 183 00:10:27,876 --> 00:10:31,116 Speaker 3: him while he walked behind me through a dead silent 184 00:10:31,636 --> 00:10:34,076 Speaker 3: cafeteria TI so that I would tell him who had 185 00:10:34,076 --> 00:10:36,476 Speaker 3: done this, and up and down the rows of the 186 00:10:36,516 --> 00:10:39,436 Speaker 3: different seats while the only sound in the cafeteria was 187 00:10:39,436 --> 00:10:42,636 Speaker 3: my own crying because I was, you know, choking in 188 00:10:42,636 --> 00:10:45,676 Speaker 3: my like and I was being marched up and down 189 00:10:45,716 --> 00:10:48,276 Speaker 3: these aisles. And then you know, in the silence, someone 190 00:10:48,356 --> 00:10:51,476 Speaker 3: screamed freak, and then the and then twelve hundred people laughed. 191 00:10:51,756 --> 00:10:53,876 Speaker 3: And I'd say that was the basis of my high school. 192 00:10:54,196 --> 00:10:59,236 Speaker 3: And I started skipping, and I started going to like 193 00:10:59,316 --> 00:11:02,516 Speaker 3: more and more shows and not really knowing where to 194 00:11:02,596 --> 00:11:04,916 Speaker 3: go and what to be and what to do. And 195 00:11:05,036 --> 00:11:08,156 Speaker 3: luckily these girls came up to me in the hallway 196 00:11:08,196 --> 00:11:10,836 Speaker 3: and they were like, hey, you go to all those shows, right, 197 00:11:10,876 --> 00:11:12,716 Speaker 3: but aren't you in the choir because I had found 198 00:11:12,756 --> 00:11:15,676 Speaker 3: the choir at that school. And I was like, yeah, 199 00:11:15,676 --> 00:11:17,596 Speaker 3: I'm in the choir and I go to all the shows. 200 00:11:17,636 --> 00:11:19,796 Speaker 3: And they're like, well, we need a singer for our band. 201 00:11:19,796 --> 00:11:23,036 Speaker 3: Do you wanna Do you want to join our band? 202 00:11:23,236 --> 00:11:26,876 Speaker 3: And I was like, without that, I have no idea 203 00:11:26,916 --> 00:11:29,756 Speaker 3: where I would have ended up. And then I transferred 204 00:11:29,796 --> 00:11:33,476 Speaker 3: myself to an alternative school, and I didn't tell my 205 00:11:33,516 --> 00:11:35,716 Speaker 3: mom didn't even know. You know, it was like maybe 206 00:11:35,956 --> 00:11:40,356 Speaker 3: many months in the school contacted her and said, Leslie's expelled. 207 00:11:40,356 --> 00:11:42,796 Speaker 3: She hasn't shown up, And my mom was like assumed 208 00:11:42,796 --> 00:11:44,636 Speaker 3: I was just completely and I was like, no, no, no, 209 00:11:44,676 --> 00:11:46,596 Speaker 3: I just didn't tell you because I knew you. 210 00:11:46,596 --> 00:11:48,996 Speaker 4: Would probably make it even harder for me to just 211 00:11:49,036 --> 00:11:52,636 Speaker 4: pull this off. So I just did it. And I 212 00:11:52,676 --> 00:11:53,076 Speaker 4: was at this. 213 00:11:53,076 --> 00:11:55,036 Speaker 3: Alternative school and I was in this band and like, 214 00:11:55,236 --> 00:11:57,356 Speaker 3: you know, kind of turned that frown upside down sort 215 00:11:57,396 --> 00:12:00,596 Speaker 3: of thing through the support of like genuine community. 216 00:12:01,516 --> 00:12:03,716 Speaker 2: Did you tell your parents about the incident with the 217 00:12:03,796 --> 00:12:04,636 Speaker 2: being handcuffed? 218 00:12:04,956 --> 00:12:05,916 Speaker 4: Yes, my mom. 219 00:12:06,116 --> 00:12:08,396 Speaker 3: I didn't live with my dad was across the country, 220 00:12:08,436 --> 00:12:11,636 Speaker 3: but yeah, I told my mom. And I think that, 221 00:12:11,836 --> 00:12:15,156 Speaker 3: you know, she had just watched her daughter change so 222 00:12:16,756 --> 00:12:20,996 Speaker 3: radically that she might have just been so frustrated that 223 00:12:21,196 --> 00:12:23,916 Speaker 3: like she you know, let's just say that in recent years, 224 00:12:24,196 --> 00:12:29,836 Speaker 3: I've recontextualized hey ps. Nowadays, luckily there's language to meet 225 00:12:29,876 --> 00:12:32,916 Speaker 3: this type of moment that at the time there was 226 00:12:32,996 --> 00:12:37,516 Speaker 3: no language for. And I can say that I'm grateful 227 00:12:37,796 --> 00:12:41,476 Speaker 3: that now, like, you know, the gradations of experience that 228 00:12:41,516 --> 00:12:45,476 Speaker 3: any single word can carry within it is now at 229 00:12:45,596 --> 00:12:48,116 Speaker 3: least available to be evoked when it needs to be 230 00:12:48,116 --> 00:12:51,756 Speaker 3: because that principle. You know, like I can still get angry. 231 00:12:51,796 --> 00:12:53,956 Speaker 3: I can still think I need to find out who 232 00:12:53,956 --> 00:12:55,916 Speaker 3: that was. I need to write an open letter to 233 00:12:55,956 --> 00:12:57,356 Speaker 3: that school letting them know how. 234 00:12:57,956 --> 00:12:59,836 Speaker 4: You know, they might be like, ooh, will you come 235 00:12:59,916 --> 00:13:01,356 Speaker 4: speak at our graduation. 236 00:13:01,476 --> 00:13:03,596 Speaker 3: It's like, well, I might have something to say that 237 00:13:03,636 --> 00:13:07,676 Speaker 3: you don't necessarily want to hear. But it was a 238 00:13:07,676 --> 00:13:10,116 Speaker 3: different time, and not to excuse it, but I can 239 00:13:10,276 --> 00:13:12,156 Speaker 3: say that like it just we all. 240 00:13:11,996 --> 00:13:13,836 Speaker 4: Know it to be true. It was a different time. 241 00:13:14,156 --> 00:13:18,396 Speaker 3: There was no vocabulary around this, and without that, I 242 00:13:18,516 --> 00:13:21,516 Speaker 3: don't know where I would be. And so it's like 243 00:13:21,636 --> 00:13:25,916 Speaker 3: anything that helps you grow or causes you to have 244 00:13:25,996 --> 00:13:31,076 Speaker 3: to unavoidably find some interior basis for understanding, and you 245 00:13:31,436 --> 00:13:34,396 Speaker 3: can cave into bitterness or you can, you know, And 246 00:13:34,396 --> 00:13:36,756 Speaker 3: I'm sure I had many years of caving into bitterness. 247 00:13:36,796 --> 00:13:39,996 Speaker 3: But something else rose from it that I'm grateful for. 248 00:13:40,596 --> 00:13:42,156 Speaker 2: When did you start writing songs? 249 00:13:42,956 --> 00:13:47,396 Speaker 3: Well, in that band, I suppose was the beginning of songwriting, 250 00:13:47,956 --> 00:13:50,676 Speaker 3: even though we were doing it together. It was baby 251 00:13:50,756 --> 00:13:55,836 Speaker 3: steps in lyrics, and you know, who's the narrator, is 252 00:13:55,876 --> 00:13:58,596 Speaker 3: this first person, is this dream sequence, is this stream 253 00:13:58,636 --> 00:13:59,356 Speaker 3: of consciousness? 254 00:13:59,476 --> 00:14:01,596 Speaker 4: Or just you know, melody. 255 00:14:02,396 --> 00:14:06,156 Speaker 3: But it was a hardcore band, so ultimately our main 256 00:14:06,876 --> 00:14:09,636 Speaker 3: asset was volume and. 257 00:14:09,556 --> 00:14:11,676 Speaker 4: Yeah, and melody came a lot later. 258 00:14:11,796 --> 00:14:14,356 Speaker 3: I mean there was melody, I suppose at that time, 259 00:14:14,396 --> 00:14:17,596 Speaker 3: but it was mostly I didn't play guitar. I just 260 00:14:17,796 --> 00:14:22,436 Speaker 3: was the front person and I and volume was you know, 261 00:14:22,556 --> 00:14:26,116 Speaker 3: kind of where what I leaned on. And Yeah, so 262 00:14:26,316 --> 00:14:28,636 Speaker 3: many years later, after I blew my voice out on 263 00:14:28,756 --> 00:14:32,276 Speaker 3: tour with that band, like just from screaming, I ended 264 00:14:32,356 --> 00:14:36,316 Speaker 3: up kind of under doctor's orders to you know, stay silent. 265 00:14:36,396 --> 00:14:39,356 Speaker 4: I had nodes. I had the whole that period of 266 00:14:39,356 --> 00:14:41,316 Speaker 4: regenerating and I learned. 267 00:14:41,436 --> 00:14:43,676 Speaker 3: I kind of taught myself to begin to play guitar 268 00:14:43,756 --> 00:14:46,236 Speaker 3: at that time when I when I was in this 269 00:14:46,316 --> 00:14:48,756 Speaker 3: sort of imposed silence and I'd had to quit the band. 270 00:14:48,836 --> 00:14:52,116 Speaker 3: I'd moved to Toronto. I you know, I was living 271 00:14:52,156 --> 00:14:55,876 Speaker 3: in my dad's basement and just like kind of dealing 272 00:14:55,916 --> 00:15:00,276 Speaker 3: with my first dose of isolation, and what I found 273 00:15:00,276 --> 00:15:02,636 Speaker 3: there was you know, melody essentially. 274 00:15:03,276 --> 00:15:05,476 Speaker 2: Do you remember some of the first songs you wrote 275 00:15:05,516 --> 00:15:06,796 Speaker 2: once you started playing guitar. 276 00:15:07,596 --> 00:15:11,196 Speaker 3: Yeah, I also had this thing called a melodica, which 277 00:15:11,236 --> 00:15:14,476 Speaker 3: is kind of like a wooden boxed miniature xylophone that 278 00:15:14,716 --> 00:15:16,996 Speaker 3: I was really and also had a four track. My 279 00:15:17,076 --> 00:15:19,676 Speaker 3: dad had given me a cassette four track a task 280 00:15:19,716 --> 00:15:24,436 Speaker 3: am and I had started with layers and singing harmonies 281 00:15:24,516 --> 00:15:27,916 Speaker 3: and making these long overtones with the metallophone, and I 282 00:15:28,116 --> 00:15:32,396 Speaker 3: kind of maybe something like sound sculptures using the radio, 283 00:15:32,676 --> 00:15:36,556 Speaker 3: using interference and just kind of playing with the form, 284 00:15:37,076 --> 00:15:40,556 Speaker 3: and like maybe the first songs I wrote the kind 285 00:15:40,596 --> 00:15:45,076 Speaker 3: of clunky first, you know, broad strokes attempts were you know, 286 00:15:45,116 --> 00:15:46,916 Speaker 3: it's like now I listened to them and it's like 287 00:15:46,996 --> 00:15:49,556 Speaker 3: the touching yearbook photo kind of thing. 288 00:15:49,436 --> 00:15:51,996 Speaker 2: Where do you identify with any of the lyrics? 289 00:15:52,036 --> 00:15:54,636 Speaker 3: Still, maybe there was a there was a kind of 290 00:15:54,636 --> 00:15:58,916 Speaker 3: a sensibility and interest in metaphor already. Was there a 291 00:15:59,036 --> 00:16:02,356 Speaker 3: kind of wordplay you know, I can hear now the 292 00:16:02,436 --> 00:16:07,556 Speaker 3: kind of grandfathered in sort of tendencies to like how 293 00:16:07,596 --> 00:16:12,156 Speaker 3: to speak around a subject rather than directly to it. Yeah, 294 00:16:12,516 --> 00:16:16,876 Speaker 3: I guess I wouldn't like sit and probably cover any 295 00:16:16,876 --> 00:16:19,556 Speaker 3: of I would say. And see I'm even calling it covering, 296 00:16:19,916 --> 00:16:21,476 Speaker 3: like as if it's not my own. 297 00:16:22,516 --> 00:16:26,956 Speaker 2: That's so interesting a former self, Yeah exactly. 298 00:16:27,596 --> 00:16:30,356 Speaker 3: Yeah, probably wouldn't cover her songs, but I can, but 299 00:16:30,436 --> 00:16:33,156 Speaker 3: I can appreciate that there's some DNA there. 300 00:16:33,996 --> 00:16:35,956 Speaker 1: We're going to take a quick break and then come 301 00:16:35,996 --> 00:16:43,516 Speaker 1: back with more from Leo Rose and Feist. We're back 302 00:16:43,556 --> 00:16:45,716 Speaker 1: with Leo Rose and Feist. 303 00:16:46,396 --> 00:16:48,636 Speaker 2: What do you think that you do as a songwriter 304 00:16:48,876 --> 00:16:53,876 Speaker 2: as a performer, What do you think you do especially 305 00:16:53,956 --> 00:16:56,036 Speaker 2: well or what are you the best at? 306 00:16:56,876 --> 00:17:00,036 Speaker 3: That's a nice question. I don't know that I can 307 00:17:00,076 --> 00:17:03,276 Speaker 3: really characterize it in words. It's a there's like a 308 00:17:03,316 --> 00:17:07,476 Speaker 3: location in me that is interested in all sorts of 309 00:17:07,556 --> 00:17:11,356 Speaker 3: variables and how they how they cross over, and maybe 310 00:17:11,356 --> 00:17:14,556 Speaker 3: I on this record in particular, I was interested in 311 00:17:15,116 --> 00:17:18,436 Speaker 3: kind of unseating some of my tendencies and seeing what. 312 00:17:18,476 --> 00:17:20,076 Speaker 4: Might might be behind them. 313 00:17:20,356 --> 00:17:23,396 Speaker 3: And there's, maybe for the first time in my life, 314 00:17:23,516 --> 00:17:26,636 Speaker 3: an awareness that there's a kind of a rigor and 315 00:17:26,676 --> 00:17:31,036 Speaker 3: a craft and an interest in craft that I wouldn't 316 00:17:31,076 --> 00:17:33,956 Speaker 3: have known with my frontal lobe previously, I wouldn't have 317 00:17:33,996 --> 00:17:35,876 Speaker 3: really thought that's what I'm doing. 318 00:17:36,036 --> 00:17:38,636 Speaker 4: But I'm kind of I continue to learn from what 319 00:17:38,716 --> 00:17:39,316 Speaker 4: came before. 320 00:17:39,516 --> 00:17:43,676 Speaker 3: Like everything I've done previously is sort of composted into 321 00:17:43,916 --> 00:17:46,516 Speaker 3: the new body of work, and I can say to 322 00:17:46,596 --> 00:17:49,156 Speaker 3: people I'm working with, like, this feels a little bit 323 00:17:49,236 --> 00:17:53,036 Speaker 3: like mush of Boom's great granddaughter or something like there's 324 00:17:53,076 --> 00:17:56,676 Speaker 3: some there's some DNA. There's something in here that is 325 00:17:57,476 --> 00:18:02,756 Speaker 3: or like if Century and Sea Lion had had a 326 00:18:02,796 --> 00:18:06,316 Speaker 3: love child, that might be you know, bort of Trouble 327 00:18:06,436 --> 00:18:10,036 Speaker 3: or something like that. Or but yeah, there's a lineage 328 00:18:10,076 --> 00:18:15,556 Speaker 3: maybe in what I've made so far that that makes 329 00:18:15,596 --> 00:18:20,996 Speaker 3: me curious about what will come next or how the 330 00:18:21,116 --> 00:18:23,316 Speaker 3: perspective will continue to be interesting. 331 00:18:24,556 --> 00:18:30,796 Speaker 2: Do you feel like the character that you've created or 332 00:18:30,916 --> 00:18:32,676 Speaker 2: do you feel like there even is a character that 333 00:18:32,716 --> 00:18:36,236 Speaker 2: you've created through your work? And if so, is that 334 00:18:36,316 --> 00:18:40,756 Speaker 2: person you or is it similar to you? Or does 335 00:18:40,796 --> 00:18:41,516 Speaker 2: that make sense? 336 00:18:41,716 --> 00:18:44,956 Speaker 4: It does? It does? It makes more sense now than ever. 337 00:18:45,836 --> 00:18:49,916 Speaker 3: I feel like an alignment has occurred where I now 338 00:18:50,116 --> 00:18:53,796 Speaker 3: know I owe nothing to the avatar. You know, the 339 00:18:53,916 --> 00:18:57,916 Speaker 3: thing that is refracted by this particular light that's shined 340 00:18:57,956 --> 00:19:00,956 Speaker 3: on this thing I do, that society that our society 341 00:19:02,196 --> 00:19:05,796 Speaker 3: shines this particular timbre of light is quality of light 342 00:19:06,476 --> 00:19:08,916 Speaker 3: on what I do, and it refracts out beyond me, 343 00:19:08,996 --> 00:19:12,036 Speaker 3: and in some cases maybe leans a little bit too 344 00:19:12,116 --> 00:19:14,636 Speaker 3: much importance on it in a way that is on 345 00:19:14,756 --> 00:19:19,156 Speaker 3: the surface. I've learned that my investment in this very 346 00:19:19,196 --> 00:19:23,516 Speaker 3: private conversation with myself, yeah, and my voice being like 347 00:19:23,596 --> 00:19:27,316 Speaker 3: literally and then part of my anatomy that over many 348 00:19:27,436 --> 00:19:30,036 Speaker 3: years I learned to listen to from the inside rather 349 00:19:30,076 --> 00:19:31,076 Speaker 3: than from the outside. 350 00:19:31,596 --> 00:19:33,996 Speaker 4: And so it's kind. 351 00:19:33,796 --> 00:19:36,756 Speaker 3: Of like I've never thought about this before, but imagine 352 00:19:36,796 --> 00:19:39,716 Speaker 3: like a you know, like how a door knob reaches 353 00:19:39,756 --> 00:19:42,476 Speaker 3: through a door, and on one side you can turn 354 00:19:42,516 --> 00:19:43,756 Speaker 3: it to go in, and on the other side you 355 00:19:43,756 --> 00:19:46,116 Speaker 3: can turn it to go out, and those are two 356 00:19:46,236 --> 00:19:49,196 Speaker 3: different gestures, but there is the same portal. It's the 357 00:19:49,236 --> 00:19:53,516 Speaker 3: same desire to move through. And so my voice or 358 00:19:53,516 --> 00:19:56,596 Speaker 3: the way I've chosen to try to formulate not this 359 00:19:56,796 --> 00:19:59,956 Speaker 3: not only the sound or the expression of it, but 360 00:20:00,036 --> 00:20:04,436 Speaker 3: the words that it's encants I now acknowledge and I 361 00:20:04,516 --> 00:20:09,476 Speaker 3: feel comfortable in knowing that that part is it's as 362 00:20:09,556 --> 00:20:12,276 Speaker 3: much me as it is what it becomes in someone 363 00:20:12,276 --> 00:20:14,396 Speaker 3: else's listening, you know. 364 00:20:14,676 --> 00:20:15,756 Speaker 4: So it's and. 365 00:20:15,596 --> 00:20:20,076 Speaker 3: That's the part that I feel doesn't get refracted and 366 00:20:20,356 --> 00:20:22,836 Speaker 3: like it's not like a house of mirrors where that 367 00:20:22,876 --> 00:20:26,396 Speaker 3: can't be changed by the perception of it, because if 368 00:20:26,436 --> 00:20:29,356 Speaker 3: my privacy goes into someone else's privacy, there it's like 369 00:20:29,356 --> 00:20:31,556 Speaker 3: a you know, it's like hermetically sealed. 370 00:20:31,596 --> 00:20:34,796 Speaker 4: It's safe. Yeah, it's kind of there is a safety 371 00:20:34,836 --> 00:20:35,116 Speaker 4: to it. 372 00:20:35,156 --> 00:20:39,756 Speaker 3: And I feel as I lean deeper into myself, into 373 00:20:39,796 --> 00:20:44,396 Speaker 3: the discomfort of my like continual daily misunderstanding of myself 374 00:20:44,676 --> 00:20:48,276 Speaker 3: and just trying to align to some personal responsibility, that's 375 00:20:48,356 --> 00:20:51,436 Speaker 3: kind of a north star that is looking for different 376 00:20:51,516 --> 00:20:54,636 Speaker 3: these dimensions. I'm hoping to find out how to be 377 00:20:54,676 --> 00:20:59,436 Speaker 3: fed by them because I'm increasingly depleted and I'm realizing 378 00:20:59,516 --> 00:21:03,756 Speaker 3: my like psychic organism cannot sustain often how much I'm 379 00:21:03,876 --> 00:21:07,596 Speaker 3: attempting to be and do into how many people into 380 00:21:07,836 --> 00:21:10,516 Speaker 3: It's like I'm never quite so for X. It's just 381 00:21:10,556 --> 00:21:14,556 Speaker 3: like every single day I'm like, I can't find X. 382 00:21:14,596 --> 00:21:17,516 Speaker 3: I can't solve for X. And yet then these songs 383 00:21:17,516 --> 00:21:20,396 Speaker 3: weirdly are a place where I think I can because 384 00:21:20,436 --> 00:21:23,156 Speaker 3: I can pause time and I can give myself just 385 00:21:23,196 --> 00:21:26,676 Speaker 3: like a little a little navigation somehow. 386 00:21:27,876 --> 00:21:29,956 Speaker 2: Is there anything on the album that you feel like 387 00:21:29,996 --> 00:21:33,596 Speaker 2: you did solve, Like any feelings that you either came 388 00:21:33,636 --> 00:21:36,796 Speaker 2: to terms with or you were able to articulate. 389 00:21:37,916 --> 00:21:40,596 Speaker 3: There was sort of like a secondary you know, because 390 00:21:40,996 --> 00:21:45,556 Speaker 3: I somehow wrote these songs through like this really difficult time, 391 00:21:46,076 --> 00:21:49,196 Speaker 3: and I think I managed in that time to kind 392 00:21:49,196 --> 00:21:55,836 Speaker 3: of make myself evoke or lean into also the responsibility 393 00:21:55,876 --> 00:21:59,796 Speaker 3: to find the joy or to you know, like be 394 00:21:59,876 --> 00:22:01,956 Speaker 3: a little bit of a solar panel and face the 395 00:22:02,036 --> 00:22:04,876 Speaker 3: light and be energized by these things that I'm learning 396 00:22:05,676 --> 00:22:09,396 Speaker 3: or the relationships that you know, just help me keep 397 00:22:09,476 --> 00:22:11,156 Speaker 3: the horizon insight and not get. 398 00:22:10,956 --> 00:22:12,236 Speaker 4: Completely lost, you know. 399 00:22:12,996 --> 00:22:16,356 Speaker 3: Yeah, And so weirdly, you know, you'd think songs are 400 00:22:16,396 --> 00:22:18,596 Speaker 3: you're saying something out loud as if you know something. 401 00:22:18,996 --> 00:22:20,036 Speaker 4: And so I. 402 00:22:22,156 --> 00:22:24,236 Speaker 3: Once the record was kind of you know, no longer 403 00:22:24,316 --> 00:22:27,556 Speaker 3: just in my within my reach, like I'm still changing it, 404 00:22:27,596 --> 00:22:29,916 Speaker 3: I'm still mixing it, I'm still working on it. And 405 00:22:29,956 --> 00:22:32,196 Speaker 3: now it's like at once, you know, from one day 406 00:22:32,236 --> 00:22:34,796 Speaker 3: to the next. Now it's it's out, or at least 407 00:22:34,796 --> 00:22:36,636 Speaker 3: it's out of my it's it's sealed. 408 00:22:36,636 --> 00:22:39,276 Speaker 4: It's done. It's like with a wax seal is like boop. 409 00:22:40,036 --> 00:22:42,556 Speaker 3: And there was sort of the secondary wave of a 410 00:22:42,636 --> 00:22:44,756 Speaker 3: discomfort and a kind of grief because I'm like oh 411 00:22:44,836 --> 00:22:48,716 Speaker 3: my God, Like I don't feel any better. It's like 412 00:22:48,796 --> 00:22:51,516 Speaker 3: maybe I could have well, I mean not to say 413 00:22:52,156 --> 00:22:55,716 Speaker 3: I mean every day I feel a range of reality. 414 00:22:56,116 --> 00:23:01,116 Speaker 3: But maybe even I thought that these songs could solve 415 00:23:01,276 --> 00:23:04,356 Speaker 3: something for me, or they could make something a little 416 00:23:04,436 --> 00:23:08,916 Speaker 3: easier or something. But the problems remain very much a 417 00:23:08,956 --> 00:23:12,876 Speaker 3: lot I've you know, the kind of shape shifting required, 418 00:23:12,876 --> 00:23:15,196 Speaker 3: like the woman who became a mother wasn't useful as 419 00:23:15,196 --> 00:23:17,116 Speaker 3: a mother, and now I need to become someone else 420 00:23:17,156 --> 00:23:18,556 Speaker 3: to be able to be that mother. 421 00:23:19,436 --> 00:23:22,396 Speaker 4: It's also the daughter who lost your father. 422 00:23:22,556 --> 00:23:29,156 Speaker 3: Like these things are the adultification is ongoing. And so 423 00:23:29,236 --> 00:23:32,236 Speaker 3: to answer your question, maybe I think I caught a 424 00:23:32,316 --> 00:23:35,876 Speaker 3: kind of hope, you know, like it's there is some optimism. 425 00:23:36,796 --> 00:23:39,636 Speaker 3: I learned years ago that whatever I sing, and in 426 00:23:39,676 --> 00:23:43,996 Speaker 3: the repetition of it, I can find myself making it 427 00:23:44,036 --> 00:23:49,316 Speaker 3: true and truer, like whatever you look at becomes. 428 00:23:49,796 --> 00:23:50,396 Speaker 4: You see it. 429 00:23:50,756 --> 00:23:52,956 Speaker 3: And so if I'm looking to see more hope or 430 00:23:53,036 --> 00:23:55,636 Speaker 3: more optimism or more like I'm trying to like collect 431 00:23:55,716 --> 00:24:00,036 Speaker 3: the little crumbs of clarity put my puzzle together, that 432 00:24:00,276 --> 00:24:04,956 Speaker 3: maybe is what I think I found Indie songs. And 433 00:24:05,956 --> 00:24:07,596 Speaker 3: even as I say all this, I feel a bit 434 00:24:07,596 --> 00:24:10,996 Speaker 3: absurd because this is that self mythologizing I was talking about. 435 00:24:11,316 --> 00:24:12,476 Speaker 4: But it's important to me. 436 00:24:12,796 --> 00:24:14,836 Speaker 3: I'd say, it's more important to me than anyone else, 437 00:24:14,876 --> 00:24:17,836 Speaker 3: because this is what I this is the form I 438 00:24:17,916 --> 00:24:21,636 Speaker 3: used to try to unpack and understand what's going. 439 00:24:21,436 --> 00:24:21,996 Speaker 4: On in there. 440 00:24:23,156 --> 00:24:28,276 Speaker 2: Right, And just speaking of having the feeling that nothing 441 00:24:28,276 --> 00:24:34,556 Speaker 2: has changed after accomplishing something, have you had the experience of, like, 442 00:24:34,676 --> 00:24:37,796 Speaker 2: as you've gotten more successful or as you've experienced success 443 00:24:37,836 --> 00:24:40,916 Speaker 2: over the course of your career, did you ever have 444 00:24:41,316 --> 00:24:45,116 Speaker 2: the thought that when you reached a certain place of 445 00:24:45,276 --> 00:24:47,916 Speaker 2: success or fame or whatever it is, that some of 446 00:24:47,916 --> 00:24:50,156 Speaker 2: those problems would go away. 447 00:24:50,836 --> 00:24:53,876 Speaker 3: I don't think that I ever had a fixed destination 448 00:24:53,996 --> 00:24:57,356 Speaker 3: in mind or edward or was it within you know, 449 00:24:57,396 --> 00:24:59,836 Speaker 3: maybe the illusion that I could make anything easier. But 450 00:25:00,156 --> 00:25:03,196 Speaker 3: I will say that something, something that led to some 451 00:25:03,276 --> 00:25:07,116 Speaker 3: of this cracking open was precipitated by going to that 452 00:25:07,156 --> 00:25:09,076 Speaker 3: People festival. I don't know if you've heard about it, 453 00:25:09,196 --> 00:25:13,116 Speaker 3: but it was a festival in Berlin that was curated 454 00:25:13,476 --> 00:25:15,916 Speaker 3: or the context of it, which was created by Justin 455 00:25:16,036 --> 00:25:20,756 Speaker 3: Vernon and the Desert Brothers of the National Era, Aaron 456 00:25:20,796 --> 00:25:23,956 Speaker 3: and Bryce, and they created a festival and it invited 457 00:25:23,996 --> 00:25:25,756 Speaker 3: me to it, and they kind of tried. I think 458 00:25:25,796 --> 00:25:28,556 Speaker 3: they invited me a few years and I didn't quite 459 00:25:28,636 --> 00:25:31,276 Speaker 3: have the ears to hear what they were saying until 460 00:25:31,356 --> 00:25:33,476 Speaker 3: I was ready to hear what they were saying, which is, 461 00:25:34,356 --> 00:25:37,876 Speaker 3: we really want to create a situation where people step 462 00:25:37,916 --> 00:25:41,196 Speaker 3: outside of their own expectations of themselves and find something new. 463 00:25:41,796 --> 00:25:44,316 Speaker 3: What they do is they invite, like in this one 464 00:25:44,316 --> 00:25:46,916 Speaker 3: in Berlin, there was like three hundred people, and in 465 00:25:46,956 --> 00:25:49,476 Speaker 3: each case it was someone they kind of knew. Concentric 466 00:25:49,516 --> 00:25:52,276 Speaker 3: circle like you know, a few radiations out from them, 467 00:25:52,716 --> 00:25:55,596 Speaker 3: or old friends, like we're old friends, and Justin and 468 00:25:55,636 --> 00:25:56,316 Speaker 3: I are old friends. 469 00:25:56,876 --> 00:26:00,116 Speaker 4: And they take people out of their comfort. 470 00:25:59,876 --> 00:26:03,236 Speaker 3: Zone in sense like not you and your drummer and 471 00:26:03,276 --> 00:26:06,076 Speaker 3: your bass player and your tour manager and you're in 472 00:26:06,156 --> 00:26:09,436 Speaker 3: your monitors person or or something. It's just you or 473 00:26:09,476 --> 00:26:11,636 Speaker 3: the bass player from that band, or the drummer from 474 00:26:11,636 --> 00:26:14,356 Speaker 3: that band, or the guy who wrote the libretto for 475 00:26:14,396 --> 00:26:18,676 Speaker 3: that opera, that poet or that choreographer or that the 476 00:26:18,676 --> 00:26:22,316 Speaker 3: trumpet player musical director for Paul Simon's band. You know, 477 00:26:22,556 --> 00:26:27,116 Speaker 3: just all these individuals who possibly have knit themselves very 478 00:26:27,156 --> 00:26:29,236 Speaker 3: closely with the people that they've been in collaboration with 479 00:26:29,276 --> 00:26:31,956 Speaker 3: for many, many years, and. 480 00:26:31,316 --> 00:26:34,276 Speaker 4: As I had done with my immediate family. 481 00:26:34,756 --> 00:26:36,796 Speaker 3: And then they just put us all in a hotel 482 00:26:36,836 --> 00:26:39,956 Speaker 3: in Berlin with food and drinks, kind of like we 483 00:26:39,996 --> 00:26:42,076 Speaker 3: were joking, it's like being at a really nice wedding. 484 00:26:42,956 --> 00:26:45,516 Speaker 4: And then they took over this campus called the. 485 00:26:47,156 --> 00:26:50,516 Speaker 3: Funk House, which is an old radio kind of a 486 00:26:51,036 --> 00:26:56,796 Speaker 3: Soviet era giant radio station with many studios in it, 487 00:26:57,156 --> 00:27:00,436 Speaker 3: and we would go between the campus and the hotel 488 00:27:00,756 --> 00:27:04,596 Speaker 3: and the ideas everyone's supposed to for five days cultivate. 489 00:27:04,116 --> 00:27:06,556 Speaker 4: Kind of like I don't have an idea, do you do? 490 00:27:06,636 --> 00:27:06,716 Speaker 3: You? 491 00:27:07,196 --> 00:27:07,876 Speaker 4: What should we do? 492 00:27:08,156 --> 00:27:11,556 Speaker 3: But tickets have already been sold for Saturday Sunday to 493 00:27:11,676 --> 00:27:15,436 Speaker 3: thousands of people coming who don't know who's there. They 494 00:27:15,476 --> 00:27:17,556 Speaker 3: didn't buy the tickets knowing who's going to be at 495 00:27:17,596 --> 00:27:21,436 Speaker 3: the festival. They just know that this people festival invites 496 00:27:21,516 --> 00:27:24,316 Speaker 3: people and then something will occur. 497 00:27:24,156 --> 00:27:26,796 Speaker 4: As a result. And it was just the most remarkable thing. 498 00:27:26,836 --> 00:27:29,996 Speaker 3: It was just I reconnected with the Kings of Convenience 499 00:27:30,036 --> 00:27:32,676 Speaker 3: there who I hadn't played with for years. I created 500 00:27:32,676 --> 00:27:37,036 Speaker 3: an improvisation project with Todd Dhlhoff and Shazzad is Maley 501 00:27:37,396 --> 00:27:40,036 Speaker 3: based upon Emily Wilson's translation of the Odyssey. 502 00:27:40,316 --> 00:27:42,156 Speaker 4: I mean just literally. 503 00:27:41,796 --> 00:27:44,076 Speaker 3: Because I had it at dinner one night, the book 504 00:27:44,116 --> 00:27:45,836 Speaker 3: that I was reading, and shaza said, what's that? 505 00:27:45,916 --> 00:27:47,476 Speaker 4: And I was like, you wouldn't believe this book. 506 00:27:47,516 --> 00:27:50,596 Speaker 3: You just flip it open in any phrase from this 507 00:27:50,756 --> 00:27:51,916 Speaker 3: ancient Greek. 508 00:27:52,356 --> 00:27:53,636 Speaker 4: This woman made it read. 509 00:27:53,516 --> 00:27:57,516 Speaker 3: So readable, so relatable, and anything could be sung. 510 00:27:57,516 --> 00:27:59,036 Speaker 4: And he's like, hey, well then let's do that. 511 00:27:59,436 --> 00:28:04,116 Speaker 3: Let's ask Mary the creative director, Mary Hickson, to give 512 00:28:04,196 --> 00:28:05,636 Speaker 3: us space and give us an hour. 513 00:28:05,716 --> 00:28:08,716 Speaker 4: And that's what she did. She would she would have kind. 514 00:28:08,516 --> 00:28:11,876 Speaker 3: Of and this enormous spreadsheet the size of a room. 515 00:28:12,316 --> 00:28:15,716 Speaker 3: She was moving people's names around through the rooms available 516 00:28:16,116 --> 00:28:20,196 Speaker 3: and helping people find ways to incubate new projects. And 517 00:28:20,236 --> 00:28:23,196 Speaker 3: then programmed this entire festival on the fly, so that 518 00:28:23,236 --> 00:28:26,836 Speaker 3: when the audience came, they all each member, each person 519 00:28:26,836 --> 00:28:29,596 Speaker 3: who came, I think they divided these thousands of people 520 00:28:29,636 --> 00:28:32,396 Speaker 3: up into ten groups. They all got wristbands it said 521 00:28:32,476 --> 00:28:34,676 Speaker 3: number one, number two, number three, and there was a 522 00:28:34,676 --> 00:28:37,716 Speaker 3: different itinerary for each group of people. So they would 523 00:28:37,716 --> 00:28:39,876 Speaker 3: be brought from room to room to room in twenty 524 00:28:39,916 --> 00:28:43,116 Speaker 3: minute to forty minute increments and see these projects that 525 00:28:43,116 --> 00:28:43,956 Speaker 3: were just being. 526 00:28:43,756 --> 00:28:46,956 Speaker 4: Born on the fly, and that is so cool. It 527 00:28:47,036 --> 00:28:47,636 Speaker 4: was so cool. 528 00:28:47,676 --> 00:28:50,836 Speaker 3: And I guess what I'm saying is that that was 529 00:28:51,516 --> 00:28:53,676 Speaker 3: to answer your question with the longest answer of all 530 00:28:53,716 --> 00:28:56,596 Speaker 3: time through history, is it was a kind of a 531 00:28:56,676 --> 00:28:59,396 Speaker 3: I called it like a mid career detox or something, 532 00:28:59,476 --> 00:29:03,796 Speaker 3: because it was it was a way to strip myself 533 00:29:03,836 --> 00:29:05,716 Speaker 3: of all of the rules that I'd come up with 534 00:29:05,836 --> 00:29:10,076 Speaker 3: that they were like collated over invisibly over time. I'm like, Okay, 535 00:29:10,116 --> 00:29:12,716 Speaker 3: I shouldn't do that anymore because that didn't work. Okay, 536 00:29:12,756 --> 00:29:15,396 Speaker 3: so now I have rule number one. Now I shouldn't 537 00:29:15,876 --> 00:29:18,836 Speaker 3: play multiple shows in the same city because it seems 538 00:29:18,956 --> 00:29:21,116 Speaker 3: that by the third show it's change and it doesn't 539 00:29:21,116 --> 00:29:21,556 Speaker 3: feel right. 540 00:29:21,636 --> 00:29:23,116 Speaker 4: So okay, no more multiples. 541 00:29:23,476 --> 00:29:26,436 Speaker 3: Or like, technically I should use my pedal chain this 542 00:29:26,476 --> 00:29:28,396 Speaker 3: way because that's the way that seems to work best. 543 00:29:28,436 --> 00:29:31,076 Speaker 3: I should use my And I had kind of collected 544 00:29:31,116 --> 00:29:35,236 Speaker 3: this armature of all of these things that I knew 545 00:29:35,396 --> 00:29:37,956 Speaker 3: in air quotes, because what it was was I was 546 00:29:38,036 --> 00:29:41,596 Speaker 3: just limiting myself. I created all these conditions that kind 547 00:29:41,596 --> 00:29:42,556 Speaker 3: of disempowered me. 548 00:29:42,516 --> 00:29:44,156 Speaker 4: At the core where I thought that I. 549 00:29:44,076 --> 00:29:46,396 Speaker 3: Could only be what I am and do what I 550 00:29:46,476 --> 00:29:50,796 Speaker 3: do if these conditions were in place. And so slowly, slowly, slowly, 551 00:29:50,836 --> 00:29:56,436 Speaker 3: I lost my scissor kicking punk clarity, a vision, and 552 00:29:56,476 --> 00:30:00,756 Speaker 3: I became like a professional who in that transition kind 553 00:30:00,796 --> 00:30:06,116 Speaker 3: of lost access to like the primary energetic truth surge 554 00:30:06,356 --> 00:30:08,996 Speaker 3: that it makes sound out of my body, you know, 555 00:30:09,636 --> 00:30:13,076 Speaker 3: and that people festival. Really it just gave me this 556 00:30:13,836 --> 00:30:16,836 Speaker 3: feeling of being like at Summer Camp, like. 557 00:30:17,076 --> 00:30:20,236 Speaker 4: You know every single person there, and these are people. 558 00:30:19,996 --> 00:30:22,236 Speaker 3: Who have achieved tenure, Like we've all been touring for 559 00:30:22,276 --> 00:30:26,116 Speaker 3: twenty years, and everyone's walking into the cafeteria equivalent and 560 00:30:26,196 --> 00:30:27,796 Speaker 3: being like, I don't know anyone. 561 00:30:27,436 --> 00:30:30,516 Speaker 2: Here, like who it must be so humbling. 562 00:30:30,196 --> 00:30:31,676 Speaker 4: Yeah, can I sit with you guys? 563 00:30:31,716 --> 00:30:34,236 Speaker 3: Like that kind of thing, And everyone was feeling that, 564 00:30:34,996 --> 00:30:37,716 Speaker 3: and yeah, it was a really remarkable experience. 565 00:30:38,276 --> 00:30:39,796 Speaker 4: It really changed everything for me. 566 00:30:40,996 --> 00:30:43,516 Speaker 1: We're taking one last quick break and then coming back 567 00:30:43,556 --> 00:30:51,156 Speaker 1: with more from Leo Rose and Feist. We're back with 568 00:30:51,196 --> 00:30:54,476 Speaker 1: the rest of Leo Rose's interview with Feist. 569 00:30:54,876 --> 00:30:58,036 Speaker 2: There's a certain threshold that all of us have for 570 00:30:58,356 --> 00:31:01,596 Speaker 2: letting something new in. When you're listening to new music 571 00:31:01,676 --> 00:31:04,076 Speaker 2: or a new artist or a new genre or whatever 572 00:31:04,116 --> 00:31:07,516 Speaker 2: it is. Does that happen for you with your own music? 573 00:31:08,196 --> 00:31:09,676 Speaker 4: How so like, do. 574 00:31:09,676 --> 00:31:12,956 Speaker 2: You have to hear something maybe like ten times, or 575 00:31:12,996 --> 00:31:15,476 Speaker 2: sing something a bunch of times, or hear even if 576 00:31:15,516 --> 00:31:17,956 Speaker 2: it's just a track here it a bunch of times 577 00:31:17,996 --> 00:31:19,916 Speaker 2: before it sticks. You know. 578 00:31:19,956 --> 00:31:20,876 Speaker 4: It's funny because I. 579 00:31:22,396 --> 00:31:27,276 Speaker 3: Just listened last night on a long nighttime drive to pod. 580 00:31:27,396 --> 00:31:29,796 Speaker 4: I love on being. I'm sure you say it. 581 00:31:29,916 --> 00:31:33,556 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, oh yeah, I love it. She'stipic, she's wonderful 582 00:31:33,676 --> 00:31:34,996 Speaker 2: and she's so great. 583 00:31:35,116 --> 00:31:37,196 Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm sure it is doing what you do. 584 00:31:37,276 --> 00:31:40,836 Speaker 3: You must feel like you identify with her or something 585 00:31:40,876 --> 00:31:43,796 Speaker 3: that it's to conduct an interview, you know, which, by 586 00:31:43,796 --> 00:31:45,076 Speaker 3: the way, you're doing really beautifully. 587 00:31:45,156 --> 00:31:46,676 Speaker 2: So oh thank you. 588 00:31:47,236 --> 00:31:49,956 Speaker 3: But but she interviewed Rick Rubin. I don't know if 589 00:31:49,996 --> 00:31:52,156 Speaker 3: you heard that one that is, I did it. It's 590 00:31:52,196 --> 00:31:54,956 Speaker 3: like it's recent and it's not often that she interviews 591 00:31:54,996 --> 00:31:58,076 Speaker 3: anybody from anywhere close to I mean, not that i'd 592 00:31:58,076 --> 00:32:00,756 Speaker 3: say I'm close to anywhere close to what Rick Ruben's accomplished, 593 00:32:00,796 --> 00:32:03,316 Speaker 3: but in the sense that I don't really hear her 594 00:32:03,356 --> 00:32:07,396 Speaker 3: speaking to people who make art. It's more people whose 595 00:32:07,716 --> 00:32:09,396 Speaker 3: life as they live it is in a way way 596 00:32:09,516 --> 00:32:13,956 Speaker 3: art or writers or you know, theologians, or I mean 597 00:32:14,076 --> 00:32:15,916 Speaker 3: just people from all walks of life, but not often 598 00:32:16,036 --> 00:32:19,676 Speaker 3: like a record producer or a musician, you know, because 599 00:32:19,676 --> 00:32:21,316 Speaker 3: we were kind of like the low art on the 600 00:32:21,476 --> 00:32:23,036 Speaker 3: art spectrum or something. 601 00:32:23,276 --> 00:32:23,516 Speaker 1: You know. 602 00:32:24,036 --> 00:32:26,716 Speaker 3: Yeah, but he really he said something that I really liked, 603 00:32:26,716 --> 00:32:30,116 Speaker 3: which was she was admitting that though she speaks with 604 00:32:30,156 --> 00:32:32,796 Speaker 3: writers all the time and she's trying to cultivate her 605 00:32:32,796 --> 00:32:36,876 Speaker 3: own practice of writing and make space for that, and 606 00:32:36,956 --> 00:32:39,676 Speaker 3: that it's that when she sits in front of the page, 607 00:32:39,676 --> 00:32:43,076 Speaker 3: she's kind of just tortured and having such a difficult time. 608 00:32:43,596 --> 00:32:47,036 Speaker 3: And I found that so touching, because that's I don't 609 00:32:47,076 --> 00:32:49,796 Speaker 3: know that anyone gets to bypass that part of it, 610 00:32:49,916 --> 00:32:54,276 Speaker 3: the self loath, the self loathing, the you know, impostures 611 00:32:54,316 --> 00:32:58,196 Speaker 3: syndrome sort of thing. But he said, well, it's because 612 00:32:58,556 --> 00:33:01,676 Speaker 3: if you're the writer and the reader in the same instant, 613 00:33:01,796 --> 00:33:05,236 Speaker 3: there's a cognitive dissonance between the doing. 614 00:33:04,956 --> 00:33:08,876 Speaker 4: And the absorbing. So you've you've squeezed. 615 00:33:08,356 --> 00:33:11,036 Speaker 3: It out of you and you're now you're immediately absorbing it, 616 00:33:11,076 --> 00:33:13,836 Speaker 3: and you're gonna you're going to taint the reading with 617 00:33:13,956 --> 00:33:15,836 Speaker 3: the writing of it because you're going to be the 618 00:33:15,876 --> 00:33:17,236 Speaker 3: writer reading it, and that's that. 619 00:33:17,756 --> 00:33:21,196 Speaker 4: Those are two different roles. And so he gave great. 620 00:33:20,996 --> 00:33:24,316 Speaker 3: Advice, which was to just create a buffer and separation 621 00:33:24,436 --> 00:33:28,556 Speaker 3: between those two halves of yourself and right right, right, 622 00:33:28,636 --> 00:33:31,076 Speaker 3: right right, as if it's a muscle you're exercising, and 623 00:33:31,156 --> 00:33:34,396 Speaker 3: don't read anything. And then maybe way later, when you're 624 00:33:34,516 --> 00:33:37,196 Speaker 3: absolutely certain you have no idea what's in that book, 625 00:33:37,796 --> 00:33:39,756 Speaker 3: open it again, and then you can be the reader, 626 00:33:39,796 --> 00:33:45,036 Speaker 3: and then you can judge truly. So in writing, you know, 627 00:33:45,076 --> 00:33:49,196 Speaker 3: in writing these songs, what he said, I recognize it 628 00:33:49,236 --> 00:33:52,356 Speaker 3: as something I do. My mind is maybe not interested 629 00:33:52,436 --> 00:33:56,036 Speaker 3: or patient enough to really like no melody can survive 630 00:33:56,116 --> 00:33:58,876 Speaker 3: my scrutiny. Basically, if I work on something too much 631 00:33:58,956 --> 00:34:02,236 Speaker 3: on Tuesday, it's sort of like dead to me by Wednesday, 632 00:34:02,516 --> 00:34:04,476 Speaker 3: and I don't care about it anymore because I feel 633 00:34:04,476 --> 00:34:08,396 Speaker 3: like the muse didn't play ball or something. Yea, So 634 00:34:09,196 --> 00:34:11,476 Speaker 3: the song a day thing, you know, I don't think. 635 00:34:11,596 --> 00:34:13,716 Speaker 3: I don't think we spoke about that, but did we? 636 00:34:13,876 --> 00:34:15,316 Speaker 2: No, I want to ask you about that. I've heard 637 00:34:15,356 --> 00:34:18,196 Speaker 2: Maggie Rodgers talk about that about the group. Is that 638 00:34:18,236 --> 00:34:22,956 Speaker 2: what you're talking about? The writing group sort of like workshopping, yes, 639 00:34:23,116 --> 00:34:24,836 Speaker 2: songs and there was an assignment. 640 00:34:25,316 --> 00:34:26,756 Speaker 4: That's right. Yes. 641 00:34:26,876 --> 00:34:30,396 Speaker 3: The Song and Day group is led by our intrepid 642 00:34:30,476 --> 00:34:33,636 Speaker 3: Captain phil Winrobe who's a producer out of New York 643 00:34:34,116 --> 00:34:37,116 Speaker 3: and he created this game I think with Damien Rice. 644 00:34:37,156 --> 00:34:38,916 Speaker 3: I think it was Damien and him that first thought 645 00:34:38,916 --> 00:34:42,636 Speaker 3: of it. So in that Rick Ruben advice way of 646 00:34:43,316 --> 00:34:47,796 Speaker 3: be the maker and then later be the listener. I 647 00:34:47,836 --> 00:34:50,436 Speaker 3: the Song of Day was this repetition of like you 648 00:34:50,476 --> 00:34:53,316 Speaker 3: have to to qualify kind of in a good natured 649 00:34:53,316 --> 00:34:57,276 Speaker 3: way to stay in to not get booted, because the 650 00:34:57,316 --> 00:34:59,556 Speaker 3: consequence of not showing up on Monday is like, okay, 651 00:34:59,556 --> 00:35:02,396 Speaker 3: well then you're out. You know. Good, we all love you, 652 00:35:03,116 --> 00:35:05,956 Speaker 3: like we all raise a toast to you, but you're out, 653 00:35:06,076 --> 00:35:06,276 Speaker 3: you know. 654 00:35:07,196 --> 00:35:09,236 Speaker 4: But it's like all warm and good nature y. 655 00:35:09,276 --> 00:35:11,756 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, But it's good though, because it sounds 656 00:35:11,796 --> 00:35:15,756 Speaker 2: like with the people festival. Yeah, And that was sort 657 00:35:15,796 --> 00:35:17,836 Speaker 2: of an assignment. The song a Day is sort of 658 00:35:17,876 --> 00:35:19,036 Speaker 2: an assignment. 659 00:35:18,716 --> 00:35:22,636 Speaker 3: Yes, And because of the need to keep going, there 660 00:35:22,636 --> 00:35:24,596 Speaker 3: would be kind of at the end of the seven days, 661 00:35:25,396 --> 00:35:27,516 Speaker 3: I would maybe be aware that I caught a little 662 00:35:27,836 --> 00:35:30,676 Speaker 3: a few messages in a bottle, like something just came 663 00:35:30,876 --> 00:35:35,196 Speaker 3: clearly through arrived intact. I managed to like lob it 664 00:35:35,236 --> 00:35:37,996 Speaker 3: out into the song a day community and then and 665 00:35:38,036 --> 00:35:40,916 Speaker 3: then I would kind of know that if I listen 666 00:35:40,996 --> 00:35:43,116 Speaker 3: back to these right now, I'm going to I'm going 667 00:35:43,196 --> 00:35:45,956 Speaker 3: to make them worse, I'm gonna pick them apart, whatever. 668 00:35:45,996 --> 00:35:48,396 Speaker 3: But if I just wait a few months, like let 669 00:35:48,396 --> 00:35:51,476 Speaker 3: the compost start to regenerate the soil, like Liz let 670 00:35:51,516 --> 00:35:54,596 Speaker 3: it sit. It was really amazing because I did four 671 00:35:54,676 --> 00:35:57,996 Speaker 3: or five of these, and the group changed each time. 672 00:35:58,036 --> 00:35:59,396 Speaker 3: There was kind of like a few of us that 673 00:35:59,476 --> 00:36:02,836 Speaker 3: did everyone, and by the end there was you know, 674 00:36:02,956 --> 00:36:06,436 Speaker 3: twenty something songs from which this record was essentially born. 675 00:36:06,596 --> 00:36:09,396 Speaker 3: But I gave myself the distance between the doing and 676 00:36:09,436 --> 00:36:13,116 Speaker 3: the beginning to I don't know understand what amount of 677 00:36:13,116 --> 00:36:16,716 Speaker 3: reformulation any of them needed. I waited there was a 678 00:36:16,716 --> 00:36:19,276 Speaker 3: window between the doing and the and the and the 679 00:36:19,356 --> 00:36:20,436 Speaker 3: kind of working on them. 680 00:36:21,356 --> 00:36:22,796 Speaker 2: Are you working on any new music? 681 00:36:24,236 --> 00:36:27,396 Speaker 3: No, But I've had that kind of inclination, you know, 682 00:36:27,436 --> 00:36:28,636 Speaker 3: like a craving almost. 683 00:36:28,836 --> 00:36:31,316 Speaker 4: It's it's sort of you know, it's sort of like. 684 00:36:31,276 --> 00:36:34,516 Speaker 3: You never know that you're in an epoch until you're 685 00:36:34,556 --> 00:36:36,636 Speaker 3: out of it. Like I didn't know in my twenties 686 00:36:36,916 --> 00:36:40,996 Speaker 3: that moment was like actually a thing, like it was 687 00:36:41,076 --> 00:36:43,116 Speaker 3: a time I will be able to remember. 688 00:36:43,836 --> 00:36:48,276 Speaker 4: I never you never know when you're in the moment 689 00:36:48,276 --> 00:36:48,796 Speaker 4: of writing. 690 00:36:49,196 --> 00:36:51,516 Speaker 3: It's kind of like until you notice, oh, I haven't 691 00:36:51,756 --> 00:36:55,156 Speaker 3: haven't felt that craving, haven't been in that mind frame. 692 00:36:55,196 --> 00:36:57,876 Speaker 4: I haven't like been receptive to that for a while, 693 00:36:57,916 --> 00:36:58,116 Speaker 4: you know. 694 00:36:58,516 --> 00:37:03,276 Speaker 3: But honestly, finishing a record is so obliteratingly like. 695 00:37:03,516 --> 00:37:06,156 Speaker 4: It's such a task that there wasn't a lot of room. 696 00:37:06,196 --> 00:37:08,516 Speaker 3: But maybe because it's done now, I'm already starting to 697 00:37:08,556 --> 00:37:12,916 Speaker 3: feel that. Yeah, so I did ask Phil for another 698 00:37:12,996 --> 00:37:16,436 Speaker 3: song a day because now I feel I like being 699 00:37:16,476 --> 00:37:18,636 Speaker 3: inside that it's a phantom community. 700 00:37:19,116 --> 00:37:21,036 Speaker 4: There's yeah. You know, one time in. 701 00:37:21,076 --> 00:37:24,996 Speaker 3: The pandemic, Adam had everybody to his yard for a 702 00:37:25,116 --> 00:37:28,316 Speaker 3: very distant you know, everyone had a picnic blanket like 703 00:37:28,396 --> 00:37:31,156 Speaker 3: thirty feet from each other, and it was Amelia Meath 704 00:37:31,196 --> 00:37:35,756 Speaker 3: from Silvaneso and Beck and Maggie was there that time, 705 00:37:36,356 --> 00:37:38,636 Speaker 3: and Adam Cohen and you know, it's just like a 706 00:37:38,876 --> 00:37:41,916 Speaker 3: mac DeMarco. He did that one and it was the 707 00:37:41,956 --> 00:37:44,436 Speaker 3: first time we'd all you know, been together. To say 708 00:37:44,516 --> 00:37:46,876 Speaker 3: is that was pretty that's pretty cool that we get 709 00:37:46,956 --> 00:37:49,236 Speaker 3: to do that together but alone, you. 710 00:37:49,196 --> 00:37:52,356 Speaker 2: Know, so people like sitting on their blanket and singing 711 00:37:52,396 --> 00:37:52,796 Speaker 2: their song. 712 00:37:52,996 --> 00:37:53,596 Speaker 4: No, not at all. 713 00:37:53,636 --> 00:37:56,036 Speaker 3: We were just hanging like it was song a day 714 00:37:56,076 --> 00:37:58,716 Speaker 3: had happened, and it's such a commitment and it's such 715 00:37:58,716 --> 00:38:01,356 Speaker 3: a you know, our whole week is pointed at this 716 00:38:01,516 --> 00:38:04,396 Speaker 3: like very private exercise that we know other people are 717 00:38:04,396 --> 00:38:08,316 Speaker 3: having the same private exercise, you know, maybe like cramming 718 00:38:08,396 --> 00:38:10,156 Speaker 3: for an exam, like everyone in your class. 719 00:38:10,196 --> 00:38:11,756 Speaker 2: Totally, That's what I just thought of too. 720 00:38:11,876 --> 00:38:14,556 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like no one can get that information into 721 00:38:14,556 --> 00:38:15,276 Speaker 3: your brain but you. 722 00:38:15,356 --> 00:38:17,116 Speaker 4: But you know everyone's also doing it, you. 723 00:38:17,076 --> 00:38:20,876 Speaker 2: Know, right, so it feels a little better in solidarity. 724 00:38:21,436 --> 00:38:24,396 Speaker 3: But I requested another one and for my birthday this year. 725 00:38:24,476 --> 00:38:28,116 Speaker 3: Hilariously because on Valentine's Day, which is the day after 726 00:38:28,156 --> 00:38:30,476 Speaker 3: my birthday, the first songs came out. And then I 727 00:38:30,516 --> 00:38:33,596 Speaker 3: wrote Phil and said, hey, ps, these songs, for the 728 00:38:33,596 --> 00:38:36,116 Speaker 3: most part on this record came from what the opportunity 729 00:38:36,116 --> 00:38:38,596 Speaker 3: you gave me to like find them, so you're kind 730 00:38:38,596 --> 00:38:41,356 Speaker 3: of the godfather of this record. And he's like, okay, 731 00:38:41,396 --> 00:38:43,636 Speaker 3: well then happy birthday, Let's do another week and it 732 00:38:43,636 --> 00:38:45,396 Speaker 3: can be any week you want. So I picked the 733 00:38:45,396 --> 00:38:47,116 Speaker 3: week when I know I'm not on tour, when I 734 00:38:47,156 --> 00:38:49,356 Speaker 3: know I can get quiet, and we're going to do 735 00:38:49,356 --> 00:38:50,556 Speaker 3: another one in June. 736 00:38:50,276 --> 00:38:52,356 Speaker 2: So that's that's awesome. 737 00:38:52,556 --> 00:38:55,156 Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, we've already started to like send out the invites, 738 00:38:55,316 --> 00:38:57,916 Speaker 3: justin Vernon wanted to do it, kind of think of 739 00:38:57,956 --> 00:39:00,516 Speaker 3: some other friends who have expressed interest and said, like, 740 00:39:00,556 --> 00:39:04,596 Speaker 3: tell me next time it's happening, and yeah, to get 741 00:39:04,676 --> 00:39:06,996 Speaker 3: out of our own way at this point and have 742 00:39:07,396 --> 00:39:11,636 Speaker 3: Phil and Damien create that context, it's such a gift totally. 743 00:39:12,356 --> 00:39:14,276 Speaker 2: Do you need to hear feedback from people when you 744 00:39:14,316 --> 00:39:15,156 Speaker 2: play something new. 745 00:39:16,116 --> 00:39:20,836 Speaker 3: No, I usually feel I'm better served to keep it 746 00:39:20,876 --> 00:39:21,796 Speaker 3: real tight. 747 00:39:22,996 --> 00:39:25,076 Speaker 4: Until I'm pretty sure about where I'm going with it. 748 00:39:25,916 --> 00:39:29,356 Speaker 3: The development of those initial little embryos that were found 749 00:39:29,356 --> 00:39:32,076 Speaker 3: in song a day, it happened like in an isolation 750 00:39:32,236 --> 00:39:34,996 Speaker 3: beyond even usually I kind of self isolate through the 751 00:39:34,996 --> 00:39:36,316 Speaker 3: writing process. 752 00:39:36,276 --> 00:39:38,436 Speaker 4: But I would show MOCKI or Gonzo. 753 00:39:38,556 --> 00:39:41,436 Speaker 3: I would show certain friends, my really dear friend in 754 00:39:41,476 --> 00:39:44,236 Speaker 3: Toronto named Adriann, like she's just sort of always been 755 00:39:44,236 --> 00:39:47,076 Speaker 3: a witness. I kind of like she's always like I 756 00:39:47,196 --> 00:39:49,836 Speaker 3: believe you or I don't know if I believe you 757 00:39:50,276 --> 00:39:53,676 Speaker 3: in this case, the closest collaborator, I would say through 758 00:39:53,716 --> 00:39:56,236 Speaker 3: the writing process besides Song a Day was I became 759 00:39:56,596 --> 00:40:00,276 Speaker 3: pen pals with the director Mike Mills through the Pandemic 760 00:40:00,836 --> 00:40:04,676 Speaker 3: and we were just sort of like this epistolary ping 761 00:40:04,716 --> 00:40:06,916 Speaker 3: pong game that was all about craft and it was 762 00:40:06,956 --> 00:40:08,996 Speaker 3: all about He was in the middle of editing his 763 00:40:09,316 --> 00:40:12,956 Speaker 3: new film Coman Come On that's since come out, and 764 00:40:13,796 --> 00:40:16,556 Speaker 3: I was in you know, kind of isolation Song a 765 00:40:16,636 --> 00:40:20,956 Speaker 3: Day and like, it's really strange, but this friendship bloomed 766 00:40:21,036 --> 00:40:23,516 Speaker 3: right at the beginning of the Pandemic and it became 767 00:40:23,636 --> 00:40:27,596 Speaker 3: kind of this like I don't know what accountability centrifugue 768 00:40:27,716 --> 00:40:32,476 Speaker 3: or something, because there was someone curious listening, he for 769 00:40:32,556 --> 00:40:37,396 Speaker 3: whatever reason, got he received energy from other people's problems, 770 00:40:37,396 --> 00:40:39,476 Speaker 3: like he from solving kind of a problem other than 771 00:40:39,516 --> 00:40:42,636 Speaker 3: his edit. It seemed to always he'd bring something back 772 00:40:42,676 --> 00:40:46,956 Speaker 3: with him from coming into my little laboratory, and then 773 00:40:47,076 --> 00:40:49,316 Speaker 3: he'd leave and go back to what he was working on. 774 00:40:49,356 --> 00:40:52,476 Speaker 3: And similarly he'd send me screen grabs or little bits 775 00:40:52,516 --> 00:40:55,316 Speaker 3: of dialogue or something, and you know, it was sort 776 00:40:55,356 --> 00:40:59,356 Speaker 3: of we were activated by each other's different form like 777 00:40:59,396 --> 00:40:59,836 Speaker 3: I don't know. 778 00:40:59,996 --> 00:41:02,116 Speaker 4: I don't know anything about film, and he can. 779 00:41:02,236 --> 00:41:05,076 Speaker 3: He considered music to be like this playground that was 780 00:41:05,116 --> 00:41:07,756 Speaker 3: not responsible to like a two hour arc and character 781 00:41:07,836 --> 00:41:11,036 Speaker 3: development and all of this arduousness that comes with filmmaking. 782 00:41:11,516 --> 00:41:13,756 Speaker 4: Yeah, he gave me a lot of really cool homework too. 783 00:41:14,476 --> 00:41:15,316 Speaker 2: I'd very cool. 784 00:41:15,356 --> 00:41:18,116 Speaker 3: I'd send him an early song and you know he 785 00:41:18,156 --> 00:41:20,276 Speaker 3: would or like a song a day the day I 786 00:41:20,316 --> 00:41:21,996 Speaker 3: wrote it. I'd say, I'd lob it over to him 787 00:41:22,036 --> 00:41:23,756 Speaker 3: and say, like, this was my offering today, I feel 788 00:41:23,796 --> 00:41:27,116 Speaker 3: particularly good about it. And then he'd he'd have like 789 00:41:27,196 --> 00:41:29,396 Speaker 3: he was the only person I felt interested in cross 790 00:41:29,436 --> 00:41:31,636 Speaker 3: talk from or in like input from. 791 00:41:31,916 --> 00:41:34,316 Speaker 2: What would he say, Like what sort of feedback would 792 00:41:34,316 --> 00:41:34,716 Speaker 2: he give you? 793 00:41:35,476 --> 00:41:38,236 Speaker 4: He'd often say, can you put that in plain language? 794 00:41:39,716 --> 00:41:43,076 Speaker 3: Like write your lyrics out and then underneath verse fyve 795 00:41:43,356 --> 00:41:46,836 Speaker 3: verse line by line, or just like kind of summarize 796 00:41:46,876 --> 00:41:49,116 Speaker 3: each verse and what you're trying to what you're what 797 00:41:49,116 --> 00:41:51,556 Speaker 3: are you saying with that? Like what do you what 798 00:41:51,636 --> 00:41:54,916 Speaker 3: is the concrete thing you're you're getting at? Because you 799 00:41:55,196 --> 00:41:57,396 Speaker 3: part of my thing is I like speaking around a thing. 800 00:41:57,836 --> 00:42:02,196 Speaker 3: I like creating the the image of what's inside in 801 00:42:02,276 --> 00:42:05,716 Speaker 3: relief kind of and it's sort of like in the 802 00:42:05,876 --> 00:42:08,996 Speaker 3: in like casting ceramics or something. You make a mold 803 00:42:09,116 --> 00:42:11,196 Speaker 3: and then you pour something inside it, and when you 804 00:42:11,236 --> 00:42:12,316 Speaker 3: crack the mold off. 805 00:42:12,156 --> 00:42:13,076 Speaker 4: There's the shape. 806 00:42:13,116 --> 00:42:16,436 Speaker 3: Like in a way lyrically, I like doing I like 807 00:42:16,556 --> 00:42:21,036 Speaker 3: finding a shape in relief, you know. So he would say, Okay, 808 00:42:21,116 --> 00:42:23,636 Speaker 3: I get that you're you're creating a shape and relief, 809 00:42:23,676 --> 00:42:25,636 Speaker 3: but now just describe to me what that shape is 810 00:42:26,196 --> 00:42:29,516 Speaker 3: and then go back and see if you can put 811 00:42:29,596 --> 00:42:30,956 Speaker 3: a little bit more of the clarity of what that 812 00:42:30,996 --> 00:42:33,356 Speaker 3: shape is inside. You know, this is a man who's very, 813 00:42:33,556 --> 00:42:35,196 Speaker 3: very good at narrative. 814 00:42:35,316 --> 00:42:35,516 Speaker 4: You know. 815 00:42:36,356 --> 00:42:39,716 Speaker 3: It was just so helpful because I think I was 816 00:42:39,836 --> 00:42:43,436 Speaker 3: also just trying to find a way to be a 817 00:42:43,476 --> 00:42:46,156 Speaker 3: little bit closer to the quick and I'd say that 818 00:42:46,156 --> 00:42:50,636 Speaker 3: that influence from Mike really found I found him in 819 00:42:50,716 --> 00:42:53,796 Speaker 3: my mind's eye kind of, you know, he's a little 820 00:42:53,796 --> 00:42:56,596 Speaker 3: angel on my shoulder or saying that, is there another 821 00:42:56,636 --> 00:42:57,436 Speaker 3: way to say. 822 00:42:57,236 --> 00:42:59,076 Speaker 2: That, you know, yeah, yeah, I was going to ask 823 00:42:59,116 --> 00:43:01,156 Speaker 2: you if there's somebody in your mind while you're writing, 824 00:43:01,196 --> 00:43:04,236 Speaker 2: But it sounds like he was the little angel. He 825 00:43:04,356 --> 00:43:07,796 Speaker 2: made that wonderful movie with the film that he made 826 00:43:07,796 --> 00:43:10,716 Speaker 2: for the National Yes, and I think he got them 827 00:43:10,796 --> 00:43:11,796 Speaker 2: unstuck as well. 828 00:43:11,956 --> 00:43:16,436 Speaker 3: Yes, exactly, And that's how we met, ironically because Aaron 829 00:43:16,476 --> 00:43:19,956 Speaker 3: and brace After people now we've all joined the same 830 00:43:19,996 --> 00:43:22,956 Speaker 3: cult essentially because of what that festival did for me, 831 00:43:23,556 --> 00:43:25,036 Speaker 3: and they asked if I would come and do the 832 00:43:25,116 --> 00:43:28,836 Speaker 3: Q and A for screening for that film in Toronto. 833 00:43:29,076 --> 00:43:31,436 Speaker 3: So that's how I met Mike Goes through that film, 834 00:43:31,436 --> 00:43:32,396 Speaker 3: which I found. 835 00:43:32,116 --> 00:43:37,116 Speaker 4: Incredibly powerful, so powerful, and I hate. 836 00:43:36,876 --> 00:43:38,836 Speaker 3: To say it, but at this point I think I'm 837 00:43:38,836 --> 00:43:41,836 Speaker 3: incredibly late and I have to go on a motherly 838 00:43:41,956 --> 00:43:43,756 Speaker 3: errand to pick someone up, if you know. 839 00:43:43,716 --> 00:43:44,236 Speaker 4: What I'm saying. 840 00:43:44,996 --> 00:43:47,276 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, yes. Thank you so much for taking 841 00:43:47,316 --> 00:43:50,356 Speaker 2: the time to talk today. It was so much fun. 842 00:43:50,396 --> 00:43:51,556 Speaker 2: I'm loving your album. 843 00:43:52,116 --> 00:43:52,476 Speaker 4: Thank you. 844 00:43:52,996 --> 00:43:55,596 Speaker 3: This has been such an interesting conversation and it was 845 00:43:55,636 --> 00:43:57,076 Speaker 3: really really nice to talk to you. 846 00:43:57,116 --> 00:43:57,916 Speaker 4: I appreciate it. 847 00:44:00,756 --> 00:44:03,716 Speaker 1: Thanks Device for talking through the inspiration for her new 848 00:44:03,756 --> 00:44:07,596 Speaker 1: album Multitudes. You can hear all of our favorite five 849 00:44:07,796 --> 00:44:12,116 Speaker 1: songs on a playlist at brokenrecord podcast dot com. You 850 00:44:12,116 --> 00:44:14,956 Speaker 1: can subscribe to our YouTube channel at YouTube dot com 851 00:44:14,996 --> 00:44:17,916 Speaker 1: slash broken record Podcast, where can find all of our 852 00:44:17,956 --> 00:44:21,796 Speaker 1: new episodes. You can follow us on Twitter at Broken Record. 853 00:44:22,636 --> 00:44:26,836 Speaker 1: Broken Record is produced with help from Leah Rose, Jason Gambrel, Vantalliday, 854 00:44:27,076 --> 00:44:31,596 Speaker 1: and Eric sam Our. Editor is Sophie Crane. Broken Record 855 00:44:31,636 --> 00:44:34,156 Speaker 1: is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you love this 856 00:44:34,236 --> 00:44:37,596 Speaker 1: show and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus. 857 00:44:38,196 --> 00:44:41,756 Speaker 1: Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription that offers bonus content 858 00:44:41,836 --> 00:44:45,156 Speaker 1: an uninterrupted ad free listening for four ninety nine a month. 859 00:44:45,516 --> 00:44:48,996 Speaker 1: Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple podcast subscriptions, and if 860 00:44:48,996 --> 00:44:51,196 Speaker 1: you like the show, please remember to share, rate, and 861 00:44:51,236 --> 00:44:54,276 Speaker 1: review us on your podcast app. My theme musics by 862 00:44:54,316 --> 00:44:56,436 Speaker 1: Kenny Beats. I'm justin Richmond.