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Speaker 1: You and Me Both is a production of I Heart Radio.

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Speaker 1: I'm Hillary Clinton and this is You and Me Both,

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Speaker 1: and today I'm taking a look at how kids and

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Speaker 1: the people who care for them are doing in this pandemic.

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Speaker 1: I think we're going to be facing a lot of

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Speaker 1: important questions coming out of this pandemic. Some of them

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Speaker 1: are about how children have been able to withstand the isolation,

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Speaker 1: the substituted zoom learning for actually being in a classroom.

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Speaker 1: There's just so much we don't know, and I think

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Speaker 1: we're going to be learning and trying to understand what

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Speaker 1: the impact on kids has been. So later in the show,

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Speaker 1: we'll be hearing from Emily Auster, who has applied her

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Speaker 1: skills as an economist and therefore spends her time delving

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Speaker 1: into data to the incredibly complicated issue of parenting. I'll

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Speaker 1: also be sitting down with writer and comedian my Berbiglia,

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Speaker 1: who's talked a lot about his fears and ambivalence about

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Speaker 1: even becoming a dad. But first I'm talking to someone

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Speaker 1: who has really been on the front lines of helping

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Speaker 1: kids in this pandemic. Jamal Holmes, a sixth grade special

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Speaker 1: education teacher in the Bronx. I am really delighted that

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Speaker 1: I get to speak to an actual teacher. A lot

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Speaker 1: of people have understood, maybe for the first time, or

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Speaker 1: at least in a very personal way, how important teachers are.

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Speaker 1: When your schools closed down and your kids are at

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Speaker 1: home and you're figuring out ways of keeping them occupied

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Speaker 1: trying to learn, all of a sudden, you go, wow,

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Speaker 1: this is what a teacher does all day, every day.

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Speaker 1: Jamal first came to our attention through an Instagram account

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Speaker 1: that celebrates black educators, and in addition to what he

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Speaker 1: does in the classroom or these days the Virtue a classroom,

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Speaker 1: he works so hard to make sure that all of

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Speaker 1: his students have everything they need at home so they

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Speaker 1: can focus on learning when they sit in front of

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Speaker 1: that screen. In the past year, he has delivered three

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Speaker 1: hundred and sixty care packages and counting to his students

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Speaker 1: with everything in them, from snacks to hand sanitizer. I

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Speaker 1: was really delighted to speak with him. He is such

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Speaker 1: a great example of a dedicated teacher. Hello, Jamal, how

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Speaker 1: are you. I'm doing well, So great to meet and

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Speaker 1: see you. It's so great to have you on our podcast.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's been an exhausting year for all of us,

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Speaker 1: but I think teachers in particular have really borne an

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Speaker 1: extra set of burdens. So let's just start by checking in,

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Speaker 1: how are you doing well? I'm doing well. So this

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Speaker 1: week is spring break, so we kind of have some

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Speaker 1: time just to kind of like pause, reflect and and

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Speaker 1: take some time for health care. Around this time. Last year,

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Speaker 1: our spring break was kind of taken away from us,

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Speaker 1: and they felt that our students really needed us throughout

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Speaker 1: that time. So it's good that now we can really,

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Speaker 1: you know, enjoy some time with the family and just

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Speaker 1: to kind of do things around the house and take

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Speaker 1: care of ourselves essentially just the ordinary stuff of life.

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Speaker 1: How are your students doing? How would you characterize what

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Speaker 1: they've been through this past year? So it has been

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Speaker 1: truly difficult for many of our students. But when I

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Speaker 1: think about my students, perseverance is kind of really what

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Speaker 1: defines them. You know, they show up. So a lot

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Speaker 1: of them need an additional push, whether it's you know,

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Speaker 1: frequent emails and phone calls and things like that. But

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Speaker 1: when they truly know that they have people in their

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Speaker 1: lives that genuinely care for them, they'll kind of go

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Speaker 1: that extra amount. Well, for all of our listeners. Tell

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Speaker 1: us about your students and a little bit about yourself

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Speaker 1: to where do you teach, where do your students live

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Speaker 1: and come from? So um, I teach in the South

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Speaker 1: Bronx at East Bronx Academy for the Future, and that's

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Speaker 1: a six to twelve middle school high school. And I

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Speaker 1: love very opportunity that I get to talk about East

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Speaker 1: Bronx Academy because I was a student there and I graduated,

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Speaker 1: and I came back ten years later to teach. I'm

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Speaker 1: a sixth grade special education teacher. A lot of the

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Speaker 1: students that I work with have very similar experiences as myself,

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Speaker 1: you know, growing up in a single parent household, living

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Speaker 1: in the Bronx, and I wanted to become a teacher

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Speaker 1: so that way I could be a positive male role model.

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Speaker 1: And I truly believe that it is easier to build

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Speaker 1: strong students than to repair broken men. Oh that's a great,

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Speaker 1: great description. What's a profile of the kind of kids

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Speaker 1: that you're currently teaching. My students are currently living in

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Speaker 1: one of the poorest congressional districts in the country, but

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Speaker 1: they're so motivated and eager to learn, and as far

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Speaker 1: as like profile in the composition of my classroom. I

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Speaker 1: work in an I C T classroom, which is an

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Speaker 1: integrated co teaching classroom, and what that means is it's

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Speaker 1: the six of the classroom is general education and special education.

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Speaker 1: So on. Averages about twelve students who come in who

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Speaker 1: have learning disabilities, and those disabilities ranged from anywhere from

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Speaker 1: speech and language learning disability. I may have one or

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Speaker 1: two that are labeled as emotional disturbed, and the vast

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Speaker 1: majority come in multiple grade levels behind. Did you go

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Speaker 1: virtually almost from the beginning and has that been the

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Speaker 1: primary instructional approach that you've used since last year? Yes,

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Speaker 1: I have been home the entire year. Every now and then,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm able to kind of get into the

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Speaker 1: building when I know that a particular amount of students

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Speaker 1: are there because I've been taking my students care packages

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Speaker 1: and doing things beyond the classroom, so if I don't

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Speaker 1: have to visit them, and can you know, capture ten

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Speaker 1: students one day in the same building, it's easier to

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Speaker 1: deliver it there. But as far as teaching, it has

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Speaker 1: been remotely well. How have you dealt with the fact

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Speaker 1: that I'm sure some of your students don't have access

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Speaker 1: to the technology that they've needed to be virtual students.

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Speaker 1: Do you have any idea how many of your students

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Speaker 1: didn't have either a computer or internet access when you started.

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Speaker 1: Particularly in my class, we at least had between twelve

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Speaker 1: and fifteen students who didn't have devices, and that was

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Speaker 1: a challenge in itself getting a device, and then one

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Speaker 1: students had devices. Wi Flife was an issue, right, and

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Speaker 1: we you know, had to work through that and eventually

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Speaker 1: the school system was able to kind of provide hot

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Speaker 1: spots and things like that. But even when our students

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Speaker 1: got the devices, it was like the proficiency, So now

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Speaker 1: I need to know how to navigate this device and

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Speaker 1: do this work. And I think that they were many

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Speaker 1: other challenges as far as executive functioning skills. Right as

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Speaker 1: a student who was working from home, you know, you

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Speaker 1: have to plan. It's the self monitoring, the self control,

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Speaker 1: the working memory, the time management, and also like the organization. Right,

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Speaker 1: so first period I'm in this class and after that

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Speaker 1: class I have to go to this class. Also in

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Speaker 1: addition to that, you know, the active home life. So

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Speaker 1: some students are on with us and cameras are off

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Speaker 1: or you know, when they mute themselves to engage in

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Speaker 1: academic instruction. Sometimes it's very noisy, it's just so much

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Speaker 1: happening and not having some sort of structure workspace where

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Speaker 1: they can actually do their work. And then even at

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Speaker 1: a very young age, My students are attending eleven years old,

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Speaker 1: and students would say things like, you know, Mr Holmes,

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Speaker 1: I can't be in class next period because my mom

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Speaker 1: is leaving for work and I have to watch a

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Speaker 1: younger sibling. So, you know, throughout the pandemic, we were

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Speaker 1: able to really kind of dive in and see like

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Speaker 1: a deeper view of what I would monies are really facing.

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Speaker 1: We're taking a quick break. Stay with us. I'm so

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Speaker 1: glad that you and other teachers working with you have

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Speaker 1: you paid attention to all of these gaps in their

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Speaker 1: learning and their access and their time everything you just described.

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Speaker 1: Is there anything you discovered in teaching online that actually

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Speaker 1: works better for some students? As a special education teacher

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Speaker 1: at heart, the first thing is differentiated instruction. Working online,

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Speaker 1: I'm able to really tailor certain lessons and this student

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Speaker 1: needs to read allow this student is going to benefit

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Speaker 1: reading this on this great level. In addition to that,

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Speaker 1: when I think about the way in which we meet

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Speaker 1: with parents parents teachers conference. Interesting, have they showed up

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Speaker 1: more online than they did in person because you could

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Speaker 1: schedule it around their need or they were at home more. Yes,

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Speaker 1: So we were able to use platforms in which we

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Speaker 1: were able to do time slots and it took, you know,

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Speaker 1: some extra time and just reaching out to parents, are

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Speaker 1: saying please sign up, but thinking about the opportunity to

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Speaker 1: get parents involved more, and like, you don't have to

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Speaker 1: come into the school building, you don't have to sacrifice

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Speaker 1: leaving work early, You don't have to sacrifice deciding should

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Speaker 1: you cook dinner or should you go to the evening

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Speaker 1: parent Teachers conference. I also think about multiple means of engagement,

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Speaker 1: so synchronous instruction versus the asynchronous instruction. Okay, explain that

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Speaker 1: for our listeners. What you mean, sure when we talk

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Speaker 1: about synchronous instruction is everyone is lives and we're working

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Speaker 1: through this and we're doing this work together. But then

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Speaker 1: the asynchronous instruction is when students, you know, get their

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Speaker 1: work online and they can do it at their own pace.

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Speaker 1: And I was able to use that time to kind

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Speaker 1: of work with some students who are performing below great level.

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Speaker 1: You mentioned that you've been providing care packages for students,

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Speaker 1: and I think that you've been including in those care

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Speaker 1: packages snacks and essentials and other kinds of activities. How

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Speaker 1: did you start doing that? And can you walk me

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Speaker 1: through how you connect with your kids? Yeah, so it

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Speaker 1: has been next month would be a year since I've

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Speaker 1: been doing care packages. Oh, that's so nice. It has

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Speaker 1: been amazing to get out and to be of service

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Speaker 1: to others. You know, this idea came about because when

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Speaker 1: we're in the school building, I usually have all these things.

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Speaker 1: Students coming hang around in my classroom during lunchtime, they

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Speaker 1: come to after school programming and things like that. And

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Speaker 1: you know, food is an essential food, drink, shelter, clothing,

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Speaker 1: those necessary needs have to be met in order for

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Speaker 1: us to kind of tap into the academics and everything

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Speaker 1: else becomes secondary. So when we're thinking about the care packages,

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Speaker 1: and you know, actually have a few. Um, so this

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Speaker 1: is one. Oh that's big. That's like a big container

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Speaker 1: filled with all kinds of goodies. I see, Well, you

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Speaker 1: tell me what's in it. So, um, here like some

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Speaker 1: hand wipes, we have, um, Colgate two brush and toothpaste. Um,

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Speaker 1: we have some dove soap for our students. We have

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Speaker 1: some protective gear, some masks and some hand sanitizing wipes.

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Speaker 1: We have socks, we have washcloths, we have towels and deodorant.

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Speaker 1: So it's tons of tons of things that we that

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Speaker 1: I've been doing to support our students. And in addition

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Speaker 1: to that, I have been doing what I call the

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Speaker 1: green bag. Is this green bag bag? Yes? And and

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Speaker 1: students were saying things like I couldn't come to school

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Speaker 1: today because I didn't have clean clothes, and I said,

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Speaker 1: there must be something I can do. So we have um,

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Speaker 1: got clothes, washing detergent, um, you know, a whole setup

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Speaker 1: of just things to support them. Well, I love that.

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Speaker 1: Is there a teacher as you look back on your

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Speaker 1: own experience at a kid, maybe at the academy yourself,

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Speaker 1: that you still remember who inspired you to become the

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Speaker 1: teacher you are today? Hands down, my seventh grade teacher,

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Speaker 1: Christopher MDN. And he is currently a professor at Columbia University.

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Speaker 1: And he is truly in a mentor inspired me day

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Speaker 1: in and day out with his work constantly, you know,

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Speaker 1: following his work on social media, touching base with him,

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Speaker 1: and he's just truly has been that model for me. Well,

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Speaker 1: I bet there are going to be a lot of

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Speaker 1: young men and women in a few years who look

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Speaker 1: back and say that you did the same for them. Jamal,

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Speaker 1: do you have a specific conversation or experience that you've

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Speaker 1: had this past year that really lets you know that

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Speaker 1: the work you're doing is making a difference. Sure, So,

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Speaker 1: I think weren't very recent particular experiences. Just last week

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Speaker 1: I was out delivering care packages and that same even

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Speaker 1: in uh student contact, you know, through text message, and

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Speaker 1: said to me homes like, how did you know that

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Speaker 1: I needed socks? And I was like, you know, I

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Speaker 1: didn't know that you needed socks, but it was a

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Speaker 1: part of the care package, and you know, he said, wow,

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Speaker 1: like it's almost as if you were in my home

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Speaker 1: because these are the items that I need it. And

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Speaker 1: I said, you know, please reach out to me and

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Speaker 1: let me know what else you need. I received a

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Speaker 1: surplus of things at home, and this is why I'm

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Speaker 1: doing this, to make sure that you all have the

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Speaker 1: items that you need. So I think that kind of

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Speaker 1: stuck with me because you just kind of never know

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Speaker 1: and our students, and at least I know my students

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Speaker 1: for example, not all of them are going to say, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, I need this, but if you give them something,

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Speaker 1: they'll find use of it. So it's also like this

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Speaker 1: trust and it's like homes, I know you got me

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Speaker 1: beyond the classroom. You know, this really reminds me of

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Speaker 1: how important acts of kindness are because that's really what

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Speaker 1: you're doing, and you're modeling Jamal that you never know

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Speaker 1: what somebody needs and trying to provide help for them

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Speaker 1: without embarrassing them because you're giving them something that they

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Speaker 1: need but didn't even know to ask for. It comes

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Speaker 1: out of your love and your kindness and your understanding

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Speaker 1: of what your students are dealing with on a daily basis.

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Speaker 1: Is there anything you want to add as we are

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Speaker 1: hopefully coming out of this pandemic, but things that you

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Speaker 1: hope that people don't forget going forward. So I think

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Speaker 1: that throughout the pandemic, because many of our students started

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Speaker 1: learning at home, more families started to become more engage

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Speaker 1: and be a part of their child's education. And oftentimes

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Speaker 1: you see where it's just like, Nope, that's the school.

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Speaker 1: You guys are the professionals. You guys do this. But

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Speaker 1: as we think about this pandemic. We really needed it

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Speaker 1: to be all hands on deck. So I just want

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Speaker 1: to just kind of thank all of our parents, all

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Speaker 1: of our teachers for collaborating, and our school administrators and

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Speaker 1: everyone for just coming together to do the best, and

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Speaker 1: you know, putting out children first and making sure that

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Speaker 1: they have the supports to kind of navigate through this

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Speaker 1: difficult time. You know you've made your passion, your purpose,

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Speaker 1: your love of teaching, Your conviction about the possibilities ahead

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Speaker 1: for your your students and what you can contribute to

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Speaker 1: make them everything they can be to live up to

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Speaker 1: their own God given potential is so inspiring to me.

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Speaker 1: And I really appreciate your taking the time to talk

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Speaker 1: with me and say a lot of your students the

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Speaker 1: next time you are online with them from me, thank you.

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Speaker 1: I so well. If you'd like to support teachers like

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Speaker 1: Jamal Holmes in providing students with the resources they need

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Speaker 1: to learn and thrive, visit the donors Choose website. Jamal

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Speaker 1: posts all of his projects there and you can pitch

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Speaker 1: in at donors Choose dot org slash classroom slash Mr

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Speaker 1: dash Jay Holmes. That's h O l M E S.

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Speaker 1: My next guest is Emily Auster. Emily is an economics

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Speaker 1: professor at Brown University, and she's also the best selling

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Speaker 1: author of several parenting books, Expecting Better, Crib Sheet, and

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Speaker 1: The Family Firm, which comes out this August. You know,

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Speaker 1: a lot of what we historically have thought about how

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Speaker 1: to raise kids, how to be a good parent, has

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Speaker 1: been anecdotal. We pass it on from friend to friend,

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Speaker 1: generation of generation. But Emily Auster has really dug into

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Speaker 1: the data and evidence about what works. She has been

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Speaker 1: a valuable voice during COVID helping parents make sense of

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Speaker 1: conflicting and confusing information to make the best decisions for

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Speaker 1: themselves and their kids. But I began my conversation with

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Speaker 1: Emily with a question about her own childhood. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's been fascinating to read about and follow your career,

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Speaker 1: and before we dive into parenthood, i'd love to hear

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Speaker 1: more about something you mentioned in an interview with The

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Speaker 1: New Yorker in apparently you were less than two years

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Speaker 1: old when you would talk to yourself a lot, and

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Speaker 1: in fact, your parents had a developmental psychologist record and

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Speaker 1: then publish a book analyzing your monologues. Now, do you

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Speaker 1: have any memory of that or in retrospect, can you

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Speaker 1: tell us what you were saying or you were thinking. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so I remember when the book came out because I

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Speaker 1: was like nine or ten, but I of course do

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Speaker 1: not remember the recording, and I have read it or

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Speaker 1: I've tried to read it. Most of what I'm saying

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Speaker 1: is quite boring. Um. And so you know, I've seen

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Speaker 1: people write about like my Child's Poet. I'm just like

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Speaker 1: listing stuff that happened. I'm just like, today we did this.

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Speaker 1: Tomorrow we're gonna do this, We're gonna go to childboard,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna buy diapers, we're gonna pick up Like that's

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Speaker 1: my whole narrative. It's just stuff that's going to happen

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Speaker 1: tomorrow and what happened today. You have two children yourself

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Speaker 1: now right, You have a daughter named Penelope and Finn,

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Speaker 1: a son, yes nine and five, And you know your

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Speaker 1: books became really Phenomenon's Expecting Better Crib Sheet and The

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Speaker 1: Family Firm, which is coming out in August. And you're

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Speaker 1: so good at breaking down the research because there's so

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Speaker 1: much information out there. There's so much stuff flooding into

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Speaker 1: our heads about everything, and you know, parenting is our

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Speaker 1: biggest and most important lifelong responsibility, and how do you

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Speaker 1: make sense of it all? And how did you get

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Speaker 1: interested in helping other parents to wade through the complexity. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so for me, that's really started with my own pregnancy.

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Speaker 1: And so I got pregnant with Penelope, and you know,

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Speaker 1: I was an economist, I was a professor. I was

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Speaker 1: doing my professor things. But you know, like many of us,

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Speaker 1: sort of when you get pregnant, it kind of it's

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Speaker 1: not that it takes over, like you can't do other things,

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Speaker 1: but it's very like particular first pregnance is very occupying,

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Speaker 1: and there were a lot of questions that I had

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Speaker 1: about what I could do and what I couldn't do,

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Speaker 1: and what was the right set of choices to make.

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Speaker 1: And I basically felt like I couldn't get the answers

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Speaker 1: that I wanted, or that the books and even my

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Speaker 1: doctors were not always kind of explaining to the extent

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Speaker 1: that I wanted things explained. And I kind of found

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Speaker 1: myself using a lot of what I was doing in

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Speaker 1: my job, where I was looking into research and evaluating

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Speaker 1: research and thinking about the quality of research and using

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Speaker 1: that data to structure my questions. I found I was

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Speaker 1: basically doing that in my pregnancy, and you know, having

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Speaker 1: these interactions with my husband, who claims that he's the

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Speaker 1: villain in the book, which is not how I see it, um,

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Speaker 1: but you know, have in these interactions where I would

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Speaker 1: say like, I think we should do this, here's the research,

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Speaker 1: and then he would say like, oh, well what about

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Speaker 1: this other you know, what about this piece of evidence?

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Speaker 1: You know? And so I kind of started doing this,

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Speaker 1: and then I was explaining to people and some those

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Speaker 1: people be like, oh, I would want to know that,

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Speaker 1: and then that's sort of ultimately led into the book,

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Speaker 1: and then that's kind of led into this whole other

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Speaker 1: life that I never sure this residency is some extap

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Speaker 1: with you also, like a sort of version of this life.

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Speaker 1: I did not think I would have, well, you know,

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Speaker 1: the so called rules for pregnancy that people have been told,

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Speaker 1: you know, no caffeine at all ever when you're pregnant,

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Speaker 1: and natural births are best and and breastfeed for this

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Speaker 1: many months and absolutely no alcohol. You really dove into that.

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Speaker 1: I mean a lot of people didn't have the capacity

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Speaker 1: in the background to be able to do what you did.

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Speaker 1: And what did you find? So, I mean, I think

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Speaker 1: that there are sort of little pieces of what I found,

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Speaker 1: and then there are are big pieces. I think, you know,

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Speaker 1: one kind of overarching theme and a lot of this

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Speaker 1: stuff is many of these things that we're told as

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Speaker 1: sort of prohibitions or you must do this, or you

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Speaker 1: must not do this, the evidence is more nuanced, So

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Speaker 1: you know, breastfeeding is a good example where the sort

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Speaker 1: of very long term breastfeeding is gonna make your kids

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Speaker 1: smarter and thinner and better and more like a superhero.

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Speaker 1: You know, that's not really supported in the best data.

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Speaker 1: And you know, in the books, I spend a lot

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Speaker 1: of time trying to help people understand where correlation and

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Speaker 1: causality are different, and how hard it is to learn

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Speaker 1: from data that compare women who do different things because

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Speaker 1: they tend to be different in other ways. And I think,

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Speaker 1: you know, in the end, a lot of the conclusions

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Speaker 1: and pregnancy are like it's okay to have a little

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Speaker 1: bit of coffee, you know, depending on your risk tolerance,

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Speaker 1: there may be a case for occasionally having a glass

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Speaker 1: of wine also, and sort of going through some of

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Speaker 1: those pieces of data, but I think the big picture

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Speaker 1: message in all of the books is that you know,

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Speaker 1: these are choices you need to think carefully about for yourself,

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Speaker 1: and that in most cases there are some small risks

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Speaker 1: and maybe some small benefits, and that you know, mental preferences,

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Speaker 1: maternal preferences are actually going to play a pretty important

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Speaker 1: role in making those choices. And there's a sort of

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Speaker 1: like autonomy aspect of the message. I remember when I

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Speaker 1: was pregnant, and then of course when Chelsea was born,

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Speaker 1: and so my mother would say things like, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: I was knocked out for your birth and your your brothers.

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Speaker 1: I don't remember anything. So you guys turned out okay.

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Speaker 1: And then of course when Chelsea had her first child,

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Speaker 1: I'm in there saying, well, I don't know, I didn't

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Speaker 1: do that. That's worked out okay for you. I didn't

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Speaker 1: breastfeed for a year. I breastfed for four months, and

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Speaker 1: seems like you're okay. So it is an important way

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Speaker 1: of trying to relieve some of the anxiety to say, okay,

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Speaker 1: there's a broad range of decisions that are going to

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Speaker 1: be okay if you are, you know, making intentional, well

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Speaker 1: informed choices. Yeah, And I think that you know, this

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Speaker 1: sort of modern experience of parenting is this kind of

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Speaker 1: like I want to do it right, and this is like,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to achieve this in the best way possible.

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Speaker 1: And I think that that has led us in some

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Speaker 1: cases to really put a lot of pressure on ourselves

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Speaker 1: but also on other people, like, well, you didn't do

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Speaker 1: it the way I did it, and so your way

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Speaker 1: must be wrong. And I think, you know, dialing that

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Speaker 1: down and saying like, hey, there's the best way for you,

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Speaker 1: in the best way for me, and they may not

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Speaker 1: actually be the same, is a way into a little

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Speaker 1: bit of maybe a little bit less judgment, you know,

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Speaker 1: of other people, but also to some extentpt for of ourselves.

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Speaker 1: So I have to ask you, have you followed your

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Speaker 1: own advice with your two kids and are they different?

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Speaker 1: Were that? Was it different parenting Penelope versus FIV? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so I think, like, you know, I wrote the first

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Speaker 1: book when I was spreading with Penelope, and there's a

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Speaker 1: long gap between the first two books and the sort

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Speaker 1: of second one is really I sort of tell people

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Speaker 1: I had to have the second kid to write the

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Speaker 1: second book about parenting, because you know, with your first kid,

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Speaker 1: every like if I wrote a book based on early

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Speaker 1: parenting of the first kid, it would be like fifty

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Speaker 1: pages long, and it would contain every neurosis you know.

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Speaker 1: I I once like it's spent a lot of time

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Speaker 1: trying to figure out if she should wear mittens, because

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Speaker 1: like my mom told me that if they wear mittens,

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Speaker 1: they won't use their hands. And I was like, what

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Speaker 1: is that? You know? And that's the second kid, You're

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Speaker 1: like a mittens who can like And so I think

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Speaker 1: that my that with Finn, I just I had a

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Speaker 1: much better sense of what to expect, and so it

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Speaker 1: was much easier to focus in on the sets of

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Speaker 1: decisions that were most important right One area that I

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Speaker 1: certainly resonated with in your academic work is on a

432
00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:35,159
Speaker 1: policy level, how the United States could get our infant

433
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:38,320
Speaker 1: mortality right down. That's a issue I've worked on for

434
00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:41,359
Speaker 1: a really long time, and you point out some of

435
00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:44,040
Speaker 1: the obvious things that should be done, which is, you know,

436
00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:47,280
Speaker 1: to make sure we do everything we can to prevent

437
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:51,199
Speaker 1: preterm births, to make sure people women have access to

438
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:53,840
Speaker 1: healthcare from the very beginning, which is one of the

439
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:58,280
Speaker 1: reasons why I was a huge proponent of the Affordable

440
00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:01,560
Speaker 1: Care Act and the expansion to Medicaid, because it's hard

441
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:04,800
Speaker 1: to get prenatal care if you can't afford to go

442
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:09,480
Speaker 1: to the doctor, and then looking at the traumas that

443
00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:16,960
Speaker 1: happen in labor delivery and postnatal care and therefore mortality

444
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:20,320
Speaker 1: in poor communities, because it's just outrageous that in our country,

445
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:25,000
Speaker 1: African American women have an infant mortality and a maternal

446
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:28,200
Speaker 1: mortality rate that is so much higher, not just than

447
00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:30,720
Speaker 1: white women in the United States, but in some parts

448
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:33,800
Speaker 1: of our country, like Texas, certain parts of Texas. It

449
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:37,439
Speaker 1: puts them in kind of third world categories. So I

450
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:40,960
Speaker 1: really appreciate the way you took that issue in particular

451
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:44,520
Speaker 1: and expanded your focus. Yeah, and I think, you know,

452
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:47,880
Speaker 1: there we write about that and think about it more broadly.

453
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:50,399
Speaker 1: I think that for me, a huge thing that comes

454
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:53,360
Speaker 1: out is the need to support women even once they're

455
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:57,560
Speaker 1: at home, and so that this piece is really missing,

456
00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:00,680
Speaker 1: particularly in you know, among women of call and particularly

457
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:03,239
Speaker 1: in lower income communities in the US, that you know,

458
00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 1: we kind of maybe we support them well in the hospital,

459
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:08,240
Speaker 1: but then they're sort of sent home in the social

460
00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:10,680
Speaker 1: support kind of crumbles in a way that that it

461
00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:13,720
Speaker 1: simply does not in many European countries. And I think,

462
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:16,040
Speaker 1: you know, what we were trying to push a little

463
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:18,280
Speaker 1: bit there is is to really make sure that we

464
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:21,480
Speaker 1: think about the policy solutions. How can we make sure

465
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:23,919
Speaker 1: that people are supported three weeks, in four weeks in

466
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:27,080
Speaker 1: when you know right now there's no paid family leave.

467
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:29,280
Speaker 1: I know this is something we are likely aligned on

468
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:32,240
Speaker 1: that having you know better, you know better paid family

469
00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:35,200
Speaker 1: leave in a national sense is really important. It's important

470
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:37,360
Speaker 1: for moms, important for baby, is important for our families.

471
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:42,120
Speaker 1: We know what works. We just have refused, willfully refused

472
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:47,400
Speaker 1: over many years, even with the convincing evidence about how

473
00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:51,480
Speaker 1: these investments early pay off in terms of health and

474
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:55,480
Speaker 1: social consequences that can be avoided or at least blunted.

475
00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:58,440
Speaker 1: And that brings me to COVID because here we are

476
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:06,240
Speaker 1: amidst of a pandemic, and I think that the effects

477
00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:09,919
Speaker 1: of both loss of learning and then social isolation and

478
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:13,399
Speaker 1: some of the mental health issues that are beginning to

479
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 1: be observed and reported, you know, really raise some big

480
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:21,320
Speaker 1: red flags. So what do you think are good ways

481
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:27,200
Speaker 1: for kids to stay engaged uh and connected and hopeful

482
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:29,800
Speaker 1: about their futures? And do you have any advice about

483
00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:35,439
Speaker 1: how to make you know, virtual learning more engaging for

484
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:39,399
Speaker 1: kids who find it isolating. The second piece is very

485
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:41,760
Speaker 1: hard because I think for a lot of kids are

486
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:44,000
Speaker 1: not even logging on, so it's like sort of put

487
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:46,520
Speaker 1: aside making it better, like you got to get them

488
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:48,840
Speaker 1: on the computer. Um. So, you know, I do think

489
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:53,240
Speaker 1: that there's a space for trying to improve our our

490
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:55,399
Speaker 1: ability to kind of find the kids for whom this

491
00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:59,080
Speaker 1: is really not working and try to scaffold a little bit,

492
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:02,960
Speaker 1: whether that's smaller group meetings in schools, which some districts

493
00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:06,360
Speaker 1: have done. Um, basically try to get some kids out

494
00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:09,159
Speaker 1: of the house, even though that's really hard. What some

495
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:11,119
Speaker 1: schools have done, even if they're not open in person,

496
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:13,320
Speaker 1: is said, you know, we're going to organize some outdoor,

497
00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:16,760
Speaker 1: socially distanced meetups so kids can see other kids. Because

498
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:18,480
Speaker 1: I think, you know, if you have little kids, you

499
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:21,480
Speaker 1: kind of realize, like at three o'clock, even if you

500
00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:24,440
Speaker 1: have the best you know, synchronous and my kids go

501
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:27,280
Speaker 1: to a great school and occasionally there are distance learning days,

502
00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:30,120
Speaker 1: and you know, even with the school trying really hard

503
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 1: and being on the you know, having them on synchronous

504
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:34,680
Speaker 1: zoom all day, they need to go outside and see

505
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:36,919
Speaker 1: other people. At the end of the day, and I

506
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:39,840
Speaker 1: think we could do more to try to help facilitate that.

507
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:43,600
Speaker 1: There are ways to do that safely. You know, kids

508
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:45,960
Speaker 1: outdoor to playground in a mask, that's a really low

509
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:49,320
Speaker 1: risk environment. Um and I think, you know, schools and

510
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:52,400
Speaker 1: districts and parents to some extent could be working to

511
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:55,440
Speaker 1: try and make that possible. I love the idea of

512
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:59,320
Speaker 1: trying to get school districts and and maybe partner civic

513
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 1: organization and not for profits to think about what could

514
00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:07,200
Speaker 1: be done to get more kids outside and get them active. Finally,

515
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:11,840
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you about rethinking parenthood post COVID.

516
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:14,320
Speaker 1: You know, I think a lot of people are reevaluating

517
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 1: so much in their lives right now, and what are

518
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:21,480
Speaker 1: the roles that schools should play in communities and how

519
00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:25,560
Speaker 1: do we raise happy and healthy, productive kids. Do you

520
00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:29,360
Speaker 1: have any thoughts about what you'd like to see in

521
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:32,920
Speaker 1: terms of changes once we finally come out of this

522
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 1: pandemic that would better support parents, educators, and kids. Yeah.

523
00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:41,959
Speaker 1: I mean, I think in some ways this experience of

524
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:47,040
Speaker 1: virtual school has really highlighted how important school is and

525
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:50,520
Speaker 1: the sort of pieces that school is is important for.

526
00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:52,200
Speaker 1: And I think that we have at least in some

527
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:54,400
Speaker 1: ways sort of push so much in the direction of

528
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 1: school being about test scores and achieving things in testing

529
00:29:57,880 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 1: and how much math do we do and what are

530
00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 1: we do earlier? And are you reading at the end

531
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:04,520
Speaker 1: of kindergarten and in kindergarten and younger kids especially like

532
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:08,960
Speaker 1: the kind of academic push in that space, and I

533
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:11,680
Speaker 1: wonder whether there will be a little bit of a

534
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:13,800
Speaker 1: pull back to say, you know, one of the things

535
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:16,680
Speaker 1: we've realized is that like a lot of the things

536
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:19,440
Speaker 1: that are really important about school are the sort of

537
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:22,840
Speaker 1: like emotional development of kids, and they need to learn

538
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:25,480
Speaker 1: how to interact with other people, and that that's actually

539
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:29,200
Speaker 1: really important for being a productive member of society. So

540
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:31,720
Speaker 1: I kind of do wonder whether we'll see more of

541
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:34,880
Speaker 1: a push in schools almost teaching that stuff, sort of

542
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:37,960
Speaker 1: trying to push that as a piece of a curriculum

543
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:40,840
Speaker 1: that is kind of on par with, you know, math.

544
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:45,640
Speaker 1: I really agree with you, because I think a lot

545
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:48,880
Speaker 1: of the different styles of learning and teaching have been

546
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:53,120
Speaker 1: compressed into a very narrow band about what teaching and

547
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:57,920
Speaker 1: academic success should look like. But Emily Austir, I cannot

548
00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:01,200
Speaker 1: thank you enough for talking with me today. I literally

549
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:04,200
Speaker 1: could talk to you all day. This was amazing. Thank

550
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 1: you so much, Secretary for insights on parenting and pandemic safety.

551
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:20,800
Speaker 1: You can subscribe to Emily's newsletter. It's called parent Data.

552
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:25,960
Speaker 1: Just go to her website Emily Aster. That's O. S T.

553
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 1: E r dot net to subscribe. The first thing you

554
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:38,280
Speaker 1: should know about Mike Barbiglia, which will become abundantly clear shortly,

555
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:42,080
Speaker 1: is that he is very funny. The second thing to

556
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:46,400
Speaker 1: know about Mike is that he is unflinching, lee honest.

557
00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:49,840
Speaker 1: Both of these traits are on full display in his

558
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:54,520
Speaker 1: most recent book, The New One, which chronicles his bumpy

559
00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:58,720
Speaker 1: journey from knowing he should never have kids to becoming

560
00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:03,600
Speaker 1: a devoted dad. Mike is a comedian, actor, writer, and

561
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:07,240
Speaker 1: director known for his hilarious one man shows on and

562
00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:11,920
Speaker 1: off Broadway. That's actually how The New One originated on stage.

563
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:16,880
Speaker 1: He and his wife Jen have one daughter, Una, and

564
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:20,160
Speaker 1: when Mike and I spoke, Una was five and three

565
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:25,560
Speaker 1: quarters years old, but who's counting. I am so happy

566
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:28,920
Speaker 1: to welcome you to this show. Mike. You've spent a

567
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:32,800
Speaker 1: lot of time on stage and in your books talking

568
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:36,920
Speaker 1: about parenting, especially in the New One, which was published

569
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:42,280
Speaker 1: last year. I thought it was painfully and disarmingly honest

570
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:46,240
Speaker 1: because you talk about not only becoming a father, which

571
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:49,240
Speaker 1: was quite a journey for you, but feeling like a father,

572
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:53,280
Speaker 1: sort of growing into the role. And here you are

573
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:57,720
Speaker 1: the father of a five and three quarter year old daughter.

574
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:01,960
Speaker 1: Thanks for being specific. The book is very By the way,

575
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:06,120
Speaker 1: that's my cat, Massie, who really enjoys just being in

576
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:10,680
Speaker 1: the mix. I attempted to not include Massie, but Massi

577
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 1: is uh she she follows politics, my kind of cat,

578
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:21,960
Speaker 1: absolutely so. Um, what I would say about the book,

579
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 1: the book is a is called The New One, and

580
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 1: it's a it's sort of a triple or quadruple on

581
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:29,480
Speaker 1: chandre of like the new baby in the new life

582
00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:32,400
Speaker 1: and the new consciousness and all of these new feelings

583
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 1: one might have when one has a child. And when

584
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:41,600
Speaker 1: I say one, I'm very specific because what I learned

585
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:46,760
Speaker 1: after doing comedy for twenty years and talking about murder

586
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 1: and awful, you know, horrible things in my comedy, is

587
00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:56,239
Speaker 1: that nothing is as controversial as parenting. You got it

588
00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:59,720
Speaker 1: close to the bone. Oh my gosh. I had no

589
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:03,760
Speaker 1: idea because here I am writing this book about my

590
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:07,960
Speaker 1: experience of like not being sure about bringing a child

591
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:11,440
Speaker 1: into this world, and the earth is sinking into the ocean,

592
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:15,440
Speaker 1: and and people are terrible often, And then you get

593
00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:20,000
Speaker 1: some people read the book and they go, well, this

594
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:24,160
Speaker 1: is not a guide for parenting, and I go, right,

595
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:29,200
Speaker 1: this is a this is a humorous memoir about my

596
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:33,799
Speaker 1: specific experience of going through this. And a majority of

597
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:35,600
Speaker 1: the time, you know I did. I did a version

598
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:38,160
Speaker 1: of this story on Broadway for a hundred performances in

599
00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:41,480
Speaker 1: two eighteen and uh nineteen and released the book, and

600
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:44,480
Speaker 1: a majority of the response I get is positive in

601
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:48,120
Speaker 1: the sense that people feel a Catharsis from when you

602
00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:51,919
Speaker 1: open up and tell them these things that you're uncomfortable

603
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:54,920
Speaker 1: even saying yourself we're putting down on the page or

604
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:57,600
Speaker 1: saying on stage. A majority of the time you find

605
00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:01,400
Speaker 1: that people, I would say, actually tips towards more. Mothers

606
00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 1: approached me and say I didn't connect with my daughter

607
00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:08,319
Speaker 1: or son until they were a year old, and I

608
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:11,480
Speaker 1: didn't know what was what I was gonna do. And

609
00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:13,880
Speaker 1: you realize when you you open up and tell stories

610
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:18,600
Speaker 1: just how common that fear is. Right, you helped so

611
00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:21,760
Speaker 1: many people. I think I feel that they weren't alone,

612
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:25,279
Speaker 1: that they didn't need to be feeling guilty or even

613
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:28,680
Speaker 1: ashamed of their own feelings. But you know the other

614
00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:30,680
Speaker 1: thing I wanted to mention. You've written about it, You've

615
00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:33,120
Speaker 1: talked about it. I mean, you were an anxious child.

616
00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:37,560
Speaker 1: You you had cancer when you were younger, you had

617
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:41,480
Speaker 1: you know, sleep disorders, one which resulted in you're literally

618
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:45,160
Speaker 1: walking into a glass wall in a hotel and and

619
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:48,320
Speaker 1: and badly injuring yourself. I mean, you had a lot

620
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:53,719
Speaker 1: of reason to wonder. You were being very self reflective.

621
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:56,160
Speaker 1: I think, Mike, Yeah, I think the chapter where I

622
00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:58,640
Speaker 1: referenced all of my maladies is called my Body as

623
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:04,879
Speaker 1: a Lemon Enough, that's really how I feel. I really

624
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:07,880
Speaker 1: feel that way sometimes. I've got rem sleep behavior disorder,

625
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:11,439
Speaker 1: I had cancer, i had Type two diabetes. I mean,

626
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:14,640
Speaker 1: I'm just like a walking pre existing condition. And I

627
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:16,640
Speaker 1: was like, I don't we don't need more of these,

628
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:18,279
Speaker 1: We don't need to more bring more of these in

629
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:21,080
Speaker 1: the world. This is this model, but indeed we do.

630
00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:26,719
Speaker 1: That's what's so striking about the book is how it

631
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:30,080
Speaker 1: shows we need all kinds of folks. And and there's

632
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:34,160
Speaker 1: another brutally honest moment in the book when you get

633
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:37,880
Speaker 1: the flu and you were touring, and you know, you

634
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:42,120
Speaker 1: drag yourself home and literally you're just dying on the

635
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:45,640
Speaker 1: couch and your wife says you're not helping enough around

636
00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:49,320
Speaker 1: the house. And then you think, and I this really

637
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:53,000
Speaker 1: caught me when I read it, I get why Dad's leave.

638
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:57,000
Speaker 1: And it wasn't an endorsement of dad's leaving. And it's

639
00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 1: not it's not a laugh line. It's not a laugh line.

640
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:04,880
Speaker 1: It was a painful, you know, revelation actually, because people

641
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:08,680
Speaker 1: are overwhelmed by the pressure of their own lives, especially

642
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:13,239
Speaker 1: you know, right now, and you're giving voice to that. Yeah,

643
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:15,480
Speaker 1: you know. I'll tell you an interesting like anecdote about

644
00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:19,960
Speaker 1: mounting the show originally off Broadway and then bringing to Broadways.

645
00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:22,839
Speaker 1: When it was off Broadway, there was a review that

646
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:27,360
Speaker 1: was really positive about the show and really negative about

647
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:31,040
Speaker 1: that moment where I think, I get why dads leave,

648
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:34,359
Speaker 1: and it clearly like triggered something in this person where

649
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:36,600
Speaker 1: they said, you know, I think they said something in

650
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:38,560
Speaker 1: the reviewed it to the effect of I don't get

651
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:41,319
Speaker 1: white dad's leave. I get why why women get divorced,

652
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 1: you know, And I was like, oh, okay, Well, that's

653
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:46,800
Speaker 1: yours and this is that's your story. This is my story,

654
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 1: and it's a thought. And as I make clear in

655
00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:51,600
Speaker 1: the in the book and the show, I'm not leaving.

656
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:56,160
Speaker 1: I'm in. I'm all in. Uh. But what we did

657
00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:58,120
Speaker 1: when we moved the show to Broadway is we we

658
00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:02,480
Speaker 1: really meditated on what is it that is triggering these

659
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:06,319
Speaker 1: people to be upset about this line? And so I

660
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:09,040
Speaker 1: came up one day with this idea of saying, I

661
00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:13,320
Speaker 1: have this thought, and I can't believe my own thought.

662
00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:18,200
Speaker 1: I get why Dad's leave, And that way the audience

663
00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:22,919
Speaker 1: knows going into the line that I don't approve of

664
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:26,560
Speaker 1: my own actions and behavior in that moment. And it

665
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:29,640
Speaker 1: was that priming that allowed I would say, like a

666
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:32,759
Speaker 1: majority of the audience to be on board for this

667
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:35,600
Speaker 1: really dark thought that a lot of people have, and

668
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:37,319
Speaker 1: a lot of people have come up and said to me,

669
00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:41,400
Speaker 1: thanks for saying that. I've had people literally in tears

670
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:44,719
Speaker 1: at the stage. You're saying, this is the first time

671
00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:48,120
Speaker 1: I understood like why my parents left, and and it's

672
00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:52,120
Speaker 1: devastating to hear, but it's also you go like, well,

673
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:55,799
Speaker 1: it's worth what I'm doing, which is confessional comedy. It's

674
00:38:55,800 --> 00:39:10,120
Speaker 1: worth it for that. We'll be right back. You know,

675
00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:13,640
Speaker 1: my mother was basically abandoned by her parents, and honest

676
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:16,760
Speaker 1: to goodness, Mike, I think she thought about that every

677
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:19,720
Speaker 1: day of her life until she died at ninety two.

678
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:24,360
Speaker 1: So abandonment, it's about one of the worst things anybody

679
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:27,440
Speaker 1: can experience. But that doesn't mean a lot of people

680
00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:31,480
Speaker 1: don't think about it. And actually thinking about it, in

681
00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:34,160
Speaker 1: my view anyway, helps you say, wait a minute, I

682
00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:36,520
Speaker 1: wouldn't want to leave. How could I not live with? You? Know,

683
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:40,640
Speaker 1: Jan and Una you're One of the other descriptions you

684
00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:44,800
Speaker 1: use in the book is that you said you often

685
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:50,040
Speaker 1: felt like the family intern, the pudgy I think I

686
00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:52,960
Speaker 1: think I said that, and the pudgy, milkless vice president

687
00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:56,000
Speaker 1: of the family. You describe something that a lot of

688
00:39:56,040 --> 00:39:59,239
Speaker 1: fathers feel, where you say, look, everything I can do,

689
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:02,600
Speaker 1: Jen can do better your wife Jen. And a lot

690
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:05,360
Speaker 1: of fathers feel that way. I mean, when confronted with

691
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:09,359
Speaker 1: this little, tiny, helpless infant. I think most fathers sort

692
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:12,319
Speaker 1: of stand there and stare like, Okay, you know, when

693
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:14,759
Speaker 1: can you be old enough to you know, ride a

694
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:18,480
Speaker 1: bike or throw a ball? Yeah, that's actually been one

695
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:21,520
Speaker 1: of the things in COVID I've been able to do

696
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:23,480
Speaker 1: with my daughter, which is if we go out and

697
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:26,200
Speaker 1: play soccer, and we go in nature walks, and we

698
00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:30,319
Speaker 1: went snow tubing a few weeks ago. I mean, the

699
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:33,439
Speaker 1: joke of the book is that, you know, you hear

700
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:38,480
Speaker 1: all these cliches about children, it's the most joy I'll

701
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:41,799
Speaker 1: ever experience from other parents, you know, I call them zombies,

702
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:44,400
Speaker 1: you know, because they're just like, it's the most joy,

703
00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:47,400
Speaker 1: it's the most joy. And you're like, all right, you know,

704
00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:49,640
Speaker 1: let me let me figure this out myself. And then

705
00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:52,680
Speaker 1: and then in the book, you know, spoiler alert at

706
00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:54,960
Speaker 1: the end, you know, I say, you know, it's the

707
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:58,440
Speaker 1: most joy. I'm I'm seeing the world through baby's eyes,

708
00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:01,040
Speaker 1: which which is a cliche that people also say that

709
00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:03,800
Speaker 1: you'll see the world through baby's eyes, and you do,

710
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:06,400
Speaker 1: you know, and at a certain point if if you're lucky,

711
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:10,200
Speaker 1: but it's not. The key thing that I learned is

712
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:15,480
Speaker 1: you don't all do it at the same time. It

713
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:20,319
Speaker 1: is the hardest balancing aft, trying to get the balance right,

714
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:24,400
Speaker 1: your balance, your you know, the mom's balance, the balance

715
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:27,040
Speaker 1: between the two of you, and then all of a sudden,

716
00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:29,800
Speaker 1: this little person who was pretty a neert for a while,

717
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:35,279
Speaker 1: starts having opinions, starts expressing them. Right, you know, what

718
00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:38,040
Speaker 1: to eat and what to wear and what she wants

719
00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:41,400
Speaker 1: to do. And so now the balance is is like tripartheid,

720
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:43,520
Speaker 1: it's the three of you. Well that was my Yeah,

721
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:45,680
Speaker 1: that was part of the thing. I grew up with

722
00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:49,400
Speaker 1: an older brother and two older sisters, and my my

723
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:52,279
Speaker 1: oldest sisters eleven years older than me. And so when

724
00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:54,879
Speaker 1: I was like when I was in his age, my

725
00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:59,600
Speaker 1: sister Gina was like sixteen and like, and my other

726
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:02,680
Speaker 1: sister was probably thirteen, and like, I mean, I remember

727
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:08,239
Speaker 1: these fights that were like they were raw. I mean

728
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:11,720
Speaker 1: it was like world wrestling around our house. You couldn't

729
00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:14,680
Speaker 1: even believe. I remember a fight where it's like where

730
00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:17,120
Speaker 1: my mom was so mad. I never told us on

731
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:19,920
Speaker 1: stage or anything, but like, my mom was so mad

732
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:24,560
Speaker 1: that that that my sisters hadn't cleaned their shared room,

733
00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:28,880
Speaker 1: that she took all of their clothes and through it.

734
00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:31,200
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not making this up. I'm not exaggerating.

735
00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:34,600
Speaker 1: Through it in the sewer across the street, throw it

736
00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:40,120
Speaker 1: in the sewer, and and and so I was this

737
00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:43,799
Speaker 1: little assistant to my sister's Gina and Patty, and so

738
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:48,399
Speaker 1: they had me running interference and carrying the clothes from

739
00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:53,120
Speaker 1: the sewer back into their room. I was the intern then.

740
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:57,040
Speaker 1: Also it was this thing where it was like, oh

741
00:42:57,080 --> 00:43:02,920
Speaker 1: my gosh. I remember hearing my sisters say to my mom,

742
00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:07,160
Speaker 1: I hate you, and I remember thinking, well, that that's

743
00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:10,880
Speaker 1: a bad deal. You know, that's a that's a Ponzi scheme.

744
00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:13,239
Speaker 1: You know. You put all your time and energy into

745
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:16,439
Speaker 1: this person or these people, these kids, and at certain point,

746
00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:19,960
Speaker 1: no matter what you do, they're gonna say some variation

747
00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:23,719
Speaker 1: on I hate you, I don't appreciate you. Yeah. Well,

748
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:27,320
Speaker 1: and that's a write of passage. Hopefully you get through,

749
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:30,600
Speaker 1: but it's painful when it happens to you. And now

750
00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:34,120
Speaker 1: that you've got a few years of actual parenting under

751
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:37,919
Speaker 1: your belt, would you say you were worried about the

752
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:44,520
Speaker 1: right things. Uh. There's a moment in the book where

753
00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:48,399
Speaker 1: where I asked my brother Joe for advice about having

754
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:54,160
Speaker 1: a child, and he says, it's relentless. And I think

755
00:43:54,160 --> 00:43:58,120
Speaker 1: that that has proven to be very true. It doesn't stop.

756
00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:02,080
Speaker 1: And so in that and parenting is so much more

757
00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:06,040
Speaker 1: involved than I could have ever imagined. And also it's

758
00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:08,640
Speaker 1: with your your body and your mind, but it's with

759
00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:11,000
Speaker 1: your heart too, and so it's it's always sort of

760
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:14,160
Speaker 1: pulling out your heartstrings in this way that I had

761
00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:18,280
Speaker 1: never experienced before. So in that sense, it's harder, um.

762
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:23,800
Speaker 1: But then conversely, it's more rewarding than you could imagine.

763
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:26,560
Speaker 1: You know. I have friends who say, like, how would

764
00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:29,879
Speaker 1: you describe it now that you have a child who's five.

765
00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:34,040
Speaker 1: I say, it's like, it's like your aperture opening at

766
00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:35,960
Speaker 1: a certain point if if you're lucky, I mean not

767
00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:39,120
Speaker 1: everybody is the same, but your aperture opening and you go,

768
00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:42,040
Speaker 1: oh my goodness. I can see that, and I can

769
00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:45,160
Speaker 1: see that, and I can feel that emotion. So that's

770
00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:47,240
Speaker 1: been my experience. I only have one piece of advice.

771
00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:52,040
Speaker 1: The book is all about whenever people think like, this

772
00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:54,839
Speaker 1: is a bad guy for parenting, I'm like, yes, absolutely right,

773
00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:58,319
Speaker 1: it's a terrible guys. I'm i'm, I'm, I'm telling you

774
00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:00,960
Speaker 1: all the ways to do it wrong so that you

775
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:04,239
Speaker 1: can do it right. Um. But I think that if

776
00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:06,879
Speaker 1: there is one lesson from the book, if you buy

777
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:10,920
Speaker 1: into the book, is about candor and about I believe

778
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:13,640
Speaker 1: that being honest with your children is one of the

779
00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:16,600
Speaker 1: best things that you can give to them, because I

780
00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:19,160
Speaker 1: think that being honest with people who you care about

781
00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:23,560
Speaker 1: is our best chance at becoming closer to the people

782
00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:28,239
Speaker 1: we love. Oh wow, that's a wonderful note to end on, Mike.

783
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:32,320
Speaker 1: That's so beautiful. You know, when you're on stage again,

784
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:35,000
Speaker 1: when we're all vaccinated and you can be in front

785
00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:37,480
Speaker 1: of a live audience, if you say that, you're going

786
00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:41,759
Speaker 1: to hear this. Oh, come up women in the audience,

787
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:46,399
Speaker 1: because that is so touching. This has been a real joy.

788
00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:56,080
Speaker 1: Thank you, Mike. Mike's latest book is called The New One,

789
00:45:56,520 --> 00:46:00,200
Speaker 1: and you can hear him on his podcast Mike le

790
00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:06,279
Speaker 1: As working it out. Well, there's so much that I

791
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:10,600
Speaker 1: hope happens for our kids. Our parents, are caregivers, are

792
00:46:10,719 --> 00:46:14,080
Speaker 1: educators coming out of this pandemic. I hope that we've

793
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:17,399
Speaker 1: learned some lessons about how we can support each other

794
00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:20,879
Speaker 1: and what works for different kids and what works for us,

795
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:23,839
Speaker 1: the adults who are trying to make sense of it all.

796
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:27,160
Speaker 1: I'm really glad that there's going to be help coming

797
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:31,480
Speaker 1: from the federal government for families and for schools and

798
00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:35,080
Speaker 1: for child care centers and for lots of places that

799
00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:40,200
Speaker 1: families need in this difficult time. I'm hoping businesses get

800
00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:43,720
Speaker 1: back up and going as fast as possible so parents

801
00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:46,640
Speaker 1: get their jobs back, they get to know that they're

802
00:46:46,640 --> 00:46:50,160
Speaker 1: going to be able to provide for their families. And

803
00:46:50,200 --> 00:46:53,279
Speaker 1: I hope that we also keep supporting each other, not

804
00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:56,840
Speaker 1: just online, as important as that is, but in person,

805
00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:02,000
Speaker 1: finding ways to reach out and make sure that everybody

806
00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:05,440
Speaker 1: is doing as well as we can under the circumstances.

807
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:09,040
Speaker 1: I for one, can't wait for summer when you know

808
00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:13,120
Speaker 1: most of the adults in our country will be vaccinated

809
00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:16,759
Speaker 1: and we can get outside with our kids and with

810
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:20,239
Speaker 1: each other and you know, try to remember what that

811
00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:23,279
Speaker 1: was like. But until then, you know, take care of

812
00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:27,719
Speaker 1: yourself and keep getting vaccinated and make sure everybody you

813
00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:33,280
Speaker 1: know gets vaccinated. To you and me, both is brought

814
00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:37,640
Speaker 1: to you by I Heart Radio. We're produced by Julie Subran,

815
00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:42,560
Speaker 1: Kathleen Russo and Lauren Peterson, with help from Juma Aberdeen,

816
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:49,480
Speaker 1: nicki etur Oscar Flores, Lindsay Hoffman, Brianna Johnson, Nick Merrill,

817
00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:55,440
Speaker 1: Rob Russo and Lona Valmro. Our engineer is Zack McNeice

818
00:47:55,840 --> 00:47:59,759
Speaker 1: and the original music is by Forrest Gray. If you

819
00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:03,400
Speaker 1: like you and me both, spread the word, post about

820
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:06,600
Speaker 1: it on social media, send it to your friends, and

821
00:48:06,680 --> 00:48:10,160
Speaker 1: make sure to hit the subscribe button so you're the

822
00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:13,719
Speaker 1: first to know when a new episode drops. You can

823
00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:17,920
Speaker 1: do that on I Heart Radio, app, Apple Podcasts, or

824
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:22,040
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. See you next week.