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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Savannah Guthrie's mother, Nancy Guthrie

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Speaker 1: missing day thirty four. It defies all logic. This, as

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Speaker 1: we learn in the last hours, the FBI has been

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Speaker 1: going door to.

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Speaker 2: Door asking certain neighbors.

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Speaker 1: Did they have an Internet disruption the night Nancy Guthrie

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Speaker 1: was abducted? Was a signal jammer used or some other apparatus?

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Speaker 1: Also we learn investigators are now talking to trash companies.

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Speaker 1: Why and this as we learn the DNA, the stranger DNA,

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Speaker 1: not a family member, not someone that worked with missus Guthrie,

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Speaker 1: was definitively found in the home. What difference does it make?

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Speaker 1: I mean, as he Grace, this is Crime Stories. I

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Speaker 1: want to thank you for being with us. A lot

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Speaker 1: happening in the search for Nancy Guthrie. Straight out to

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories investigative reporter Dave mac dave, What do you

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Speaker 1: mean the FBI going not exactly door to door, but

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Speaker 1: to certain neighbors, which I find interesting. Not door to door,

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Speaker 1: not every neighbor, certain targeted neighbors.

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Speaker 2: Why them?

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Speaker 1: What do they know? What can they offer that the

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Speaker 1: next door neighbor cannot offer? Is it advantage point? Is

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Speaker 1: it their work schedule. In other words, were they coming

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Speaker 1: home in the middle of the night, were they getting

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Speaker 1: up early?

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Speaker 2: What did they notice? Were they out and about.

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Speaker 1: Was their cell phone identified moving around in the area

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Speaker 1: in the early morning hours. My point is it could

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Speaker 1: be a myriad of possibilities. Not every neighbor was questioned.

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Speaker 1: Certain people were isolated in question. I'll get to that

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Speaker 1: in a moment. But Dave mac appearance with their internet signal.

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Speaker 3: What the FBI yesterday was specifically looking at the home

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Speaker 3: just west of Nancy Guthrie's home, and they were specifically

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Speaker 3: the FBI specifically asking about internet connectivity issues the night

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Speaker 3: that Nancy Guthrie disappeared, very specific about the time and

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Speaker 3: very specific about what could have happened with their internet

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Speaker 3: connectivity Nancy. As we pointed out before, while this is

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Speaker 3: a neighborhood, the homes are not close together, they are

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Speaker 3: separated by a bit. And in this particular case, they,

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Speaker 3: as you mentioned, FBI did not go to every house.

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Speaker 3: They only went to specific homes, in particular the home

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Speaker 3: to the west of Nancy Guthrie's house, that's the one

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Speaker 3: they spent the most time with and again checking on

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Speaker 3: internet connectivity on February first, that's what they're looking at.

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Speaker 1: You're seeing video drone video from our friends at Fox News.

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Speaker 2: How irritating.

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Speaker 1: Look Look, it's like nats straight out to circle back

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Speaker 1: what you just said. But to Bob Krieger joining US,

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Speaker 1: former SWAT commander.

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Speaker 2: That's not easy to obtain.

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Speaker 1: Former SWAT commander, Pema County Sheriff's Office, thirty years in Pema.

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Speaker 1: Did you see the video we just showed. Do you

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Speaker 1: see the media chasing down the FBI? I mean they

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Speaker 1: can't they can't make a.

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Speaker 2: Move without being watched.

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Speaker 1: People are trying to figure out what they're saying, they're

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Speaker 1: trying to read their lips.

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Speaker 2: Did you ever.

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Speaker 1: Encounter anything like this where your every move was watched

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Speaker 1: while you tried to work, Bob.

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Speaker 4: Not specifically like that, but you know, it started a

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Speaker 4: handful of years ago where First Amendment auditors decided they

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Speaker 4: wanted to videotape and look at everything that law enforcement does.

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Speaker 4: And it's a skill that you learn, and you learn

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Speaker 4: as long as there are a decent distance away, you

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Speaker 4: just kind of ignore them.

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Speaker 5: Like you said, they're like nats, you know.

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Speaker 1: Or two, Bob, can I tell you a story I

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Speaker 1: remember I remember the first time that Court TV covered

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Speaker 1: one of my trials live. I was so oblivious, focusing

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Speaker 1: on the answer, the jury, the question, the jury, the judge.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's like.

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Speaker 1: A tennis match. You zone out everything else. And later

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Speaker 1: I found out that the camera caught me trying to

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Speaker 1: put my hair up, which I wore on top of

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Speaker 1: my head at the time, adjusting my dress and all that,

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Speaker 1: you know, before the jury would come back in. So

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Speaker 1: you know, you have to be in a zone if

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Speaker 1: you're focusing on what's happening. And can I see that

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Speaker 1: video again from a friends at Fox's drone video of

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Speaker 1: the FBI, and that's how we know they were only

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Speaker 1: going to certain doors, certain neighbors. So can I see

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Speaker 1: the other photo now? Please control room of Nancy Guthrie's home,

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Speaker 1: and Dave Matt if you could look at this, because see,

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Speaker 1: we don't know how this is situated. The overhead shot

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Speaker 1: of Nancy Guthrie's home. Okay, when you're say saying west,

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Speaker 1: see from what we're seeing, I don't know which home

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Speaker 1: that would be. Let me see a fares shot that's

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Speaker 1: from twelve News. By the way, a high aerial is

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Speaker 1: it to the right of her home or the left

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Speaker 1: of her home, in front or in back? What is

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Speaker 1: west as it is oriented to this photo, Dave mac

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Speaker 1: do we know what would be west? I would assume

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Speaker 1: it's to the left of her home.

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Speaker 3: Okay, that's what I assumed, But Nancy, I don't have

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Speaker 3: a there's not a compass here on the picture to

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Speaker 3: know exactly where. That's why I use the identifiers.

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Speaker 2: Okay, well, we're going to find out control room.

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Speaker 1: That will give you something fun to do. Figure out

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Speaker 1: what is east, west, north and south in this photo.

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Speaker 1: Just FYI, all you need to know control room is

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Speaker 1: what's north. I'll do the rest for you. Back to

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Speaker 1: the topic the FBI going not quite door to door,

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Speaker 1: but certain neighbors isolated straight out to James Bass joining

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Speaker 1: US digital forensic analyst expert witness at Evident Solutions, Inc.

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Speaker 1: In to some James, thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 1: Now you've heard like we did late last night about

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Speaker 1: questioning neighbors. Did they have an Internet interference the night

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Speaker 1: Nancy went missing?

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Speaker 6: Thoughts based on some of the new reporting of possible

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Speaker 6: WiFi jammers being used. I think what you're seeing is

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Speaker 6: them trying to either establish that one was used or

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Speaker 6: rule out that fact. Wi Fi jammers work by overwhelming

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Speaker 6: a signal. You can think of it like sitting in

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Speaker 6: a movie theater and someone screaming in your ear. That's

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Speaker 6: pretty much what they do. They're going to flood the

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Speaker 6: zone with signals. So part of this requires a proximity

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Speaker 6: to your device. You can't block out everything.

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Speaker 1: Okay, James Bass, James Bass, let me see him. Bass.

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Speaker 1: I got two law degrees, one j D from Ruscy University,

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Speaker 1: one LLM and criminal constitutional law from NYU. And I

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Speaker 1: don't know what you just said. Slow it down, brother, Okay,

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Speaker 1: because I need to understand. This is technology I don't

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Speaker 1: know about and I want to understand it.

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Speaker 2: Okay, what now?

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Speaker 6: A Wi Fi jammer is. It's a device you can

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Speaker 6: buy off the internet. They're legal in the United States.

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Speaker 6: You can't possess them, but if you do obtain one,

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Speaker 6: they're relatively effective at stopping Wi Fi signals. They do

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Speaker 6: this by just overwhelming the specific signal band whipped.

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Speaker 1: First of all, you've already told me something inconsistent. I

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Speaker 1: believe you, but in my mind is inconsistent. You said

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Speaker 1: it's illegal, but you can get it on the internet,

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Speaker 1: just like drugs or illegal, but you can get them anywhere.

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Speaker 1: So a signal jammer is illegal in the US. I

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Speaker 1: wonder where are they legal? But that's a whole other

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Speaker 1: can of worms. Ooh, there's a picture signal jammer. And

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Speaker 1: then you said, okay, so I've reconciled that, James. Now

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Speaker 1: you said you flood the internet. What does that mean?

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Speaker 1: How do you flood the internet?

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Speaker 6: If you think of your wireless router, it's got really

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Speaker 6: two signals. You have two point four gigahertz and your

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Speaker 6: your five gigaherts signal band.

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Speaker 7: That's how it talks back and forth. It sends in data.

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Speaker 6: Now, these jammers don't erase the signal, but what they

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Speaker 6: do is they admit such a loud signal that it's

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Speaker 6: going to overwhelm your device. Just like I said, going

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Speaker 6: to a movie theater and having someone besides you springing

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Speaker 6: in your ear the whole time. You can't hear the movie,

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Speaker 6: but the movie's still going on. It's just going to

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Speaker 6: interfere with the transmission of the data.

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Speaker 1: Step right there, I need to I've got to take

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Speaker 1: this in tiny SIPs. Okay, Number one, it's illegal. Number two,

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Speaker 1: you can get one on the Internet three Internet. Everybody's

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Speaker 1: home Internet through their riuters gives a signal and receives

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Speaker 1: a signal. A signal jammer does not stop either the

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Speaker 1: receipt or the transmission of your home router. What it

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Speaker 1: does is it sends out its own signal that is

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Speaker 1: so strong and overpowering.

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Speaker 2: Okay, then you finish the rest of the sentence.

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Speaker 1: That's as far as as far as I got, go ahead.

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Speaker 6: It's so strong and overpowering that nothing can be sent

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Speaker 6: or received.

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Speaker 7: It can't be heard.

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Speaker 6: You know you're in this case, maybe the Nest camera

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Speaker 6: is broadcasting video to the router. The router is then

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Speaker 6: sending it to the service. Now, when a Wi Fi

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Speaker 6: jammer is set next to that camera, it's gonna scream

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Speaker 6: so loud that the signal from the device from the

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Speaker 6: camera isn't heard by the router.

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Speaker 7: It's just going to jump between it and block.

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Speaker 1: Its Pretend you're talking to Kindergartner's the Wi Fi jammer

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Speaker 1: when set next to Nancy Guthrie's Nest.

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Speaker 2: What was the rest of that.

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Speaker 6: It's it emits a signal that's more powerful than the

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Speaker 6: Nest camera.

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Speaker 7: It would overwhelmed that bandwidth.

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Speaker 6: It just screams and yells really loud, and then the

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Speaker 6: router can't hear the camera anymore.

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Speaker 7: It just interferes and severs.

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Speaker 1: That wow override signal so loudly the nest can no

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Speaker 1: longer hear the transmission is supposed to be receiving.

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Speaker 7: And sending. Yes, is that right? Exactly?

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Speaker 1: Wow? Okay, you just explained a lot to me. Now

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Speaker 1: I want you to look at something Control room. Could

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Speaker 1: you please show the item sticking out of the door

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Speaker 1: the porch. Guys, there you go, keep going, keep going,

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Speaker 1: keep going.

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Speaker 2: Stop?

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Speaker 1: So what we had thought, Oh, you're still moving? Could

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Speaker 1: you I show that for me? What we had thought

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Speaker 1: was a walky talkie. Could that be the signal jammer

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Speaker 1: or a signal jammer?

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Speaker 6: James Bass, It's possible, It is very possible that that

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Speaker 6: is a Wi Fi signal jamming antenna.

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Speaker 7: You normally would see more than one antenna.

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Speaker 6: There's usually one antenna per band that it's going to

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Speaker 6: try to interfere with, as your illustration here, So it

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Speaker 6: could still be a walkie talkie of some sort. But

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Speaker 6: that antenna is also something that you would see on

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Speaker 6: a WiFi.

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Speaker 1: Jammer, so it could be a jammer. Do all jammers

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Speaker 1: have the three antenna.

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Speaker 6: Now some have two, some have three, depending on the

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Speaker 6: sophistication of the jammer, the technology that's being used. You

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Speaker 6: can see more. Some don't have one. You you would

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Speaker 6: have to provide a separate antenna. Some have them integrated

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Speaker 6: into the device for portability.

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Speaker 1: Huh. So some have no antenna.

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Speaker 6: Or you buy the everything has to have an antenna,

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Speaker 6: but if you buy they can be mounted to anything.

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Speaker 7: They're not. The one you would put in your pocket

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Speaker 7: would have an antenna like a walkie talkie. But if

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Speaker 7: you were looking to install one on a.

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Speaker 6: Vehicle, it would not have a built in integrated antenna.

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Speaker 6: You would have to have an external antenna for the

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Speaker 6: signal to broadcast.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I asked that because you said it could be

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Speaker 1: integrated into the device. But you're saying it can be

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Speaker 1: attached to the device.

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Speaker 7: Correct, correct, Depending on.

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Speaker 1: Everything separately and then put it together.

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Speaker 6: You can, yes, or you can just purchase one for

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Speaker 6: They usually run about one hundred hundred and fifty dollars,

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Speaker 6: like the one you're displaying here.

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Speaker 7: That's probably one hundred and two hundred dollars.

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Speaker 2: Unit Crime Stories with Nancy Grace Signal Jammer.

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Speaker 1: The reason we're talking about this tonight is we have

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Speaker 1: learned that the FBI, this is not just some kook

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Speaker 1: on the internet. The FBI is asking neighbors, certain neighbors,

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Speaker 1: if they had interference with their internet the night Nancy

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Speaker 1: goes missing. Now I've got an answer. Let's see the

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Speaker 1: aerial view of Nancy's home again, please, because I've now learned.

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Speaker 1: The front door is facing north. The front door is

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Speaker 1: facing north.

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Speaker 2: So as you're looking at the camera.

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Speaker 1: You are north. South is behind the house. Okay, which

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Speaker 1: means west would be to the left. There you go,

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Speaker 1: Thank you, Control room. Wow, Okay, that is very helpful.

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Speaker 1: Now there's Nancy's home with the red mark on it.

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Speaker 1: So to the west there you can see. Now you

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Speaker 1: see her home, you see her pool, and.

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Speaker 2: It looks there you go.

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Speaker 1: The first home to the left would be the one

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Speaker 1: to the west. Okay, Dave Mack, you're telling me that

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Speaker 1: is the home that they were asking about interference with

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Speaker 1: the signal?

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Speaker 7: Correct?

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Speaker 3: That is the home they spent the most time with

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Speaker 3: and that's where they were specifically asking connected the night

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Speaker 3: Nancy went missing.

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Speaker 1: Dave mac not to belabor the point, but was the

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Speaker 1: FBI asking multiple people in the neighborhood or just the

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Speaker 1: home to the west.

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Speaker 3: The FBI actually went to different homes in the neighborhood Nancy,

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Speaker 3: not just the one. They were seen walking to other

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Speaker 3: homes in the neighborhood as well.

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Speaker 2: That I know.

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Speaker 1: But did they ask other neighbors about internet interference or

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Speaker 1: just the one.

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Speaker 3: Neighbor We know just about the one neighbor.

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Speaker 5: We don't know what the conferences, but they could.

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Speaker 1: Have got it, got it, but they could have So

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Speaker 1: back to you, James Bass, digital forensic analyst, expert witness

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Speaker 1: at Evidence Solutions. In't there in Tucson? If a signal

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Speaker 1: jammer was used, would it have jammed houses around Nancies

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Speaker 1: or just Nancis.

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Speaker 6: That's exactly what they're probably trying to establish.

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Speaker 7: A small unit has a very small area that it

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Speaker 7: can jam.

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Speaker 6: It's got to be close to the device to actually

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Speaker 6: stop the signal.

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Speaker 7: So what they're looking is houses that are going to

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Speaker 7: be close.

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Speaker 6: Trying to establish a timeline or possibly a route in

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Speaker 6: or out of the neighborhood based off of a city interruption.

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Speaker 2: Okay, that was really smart.

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Speaker 1: Hold on, hold on, I was trying to discern something

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Speaker 1: if the neighbors say their Internet was not interrupted, That

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Speaker 1: can mean there was not a blanket like cable disruption.

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Speaker 1: That would be more likely, not absolutely, but more likely

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Speaker 1: that a signal jammer was used at Nancy's home. If

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Speaker 1: nobody else had a problem, Nancy was the only one

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Speaker 1: that had a problem, more likely a signal jammer was used.

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Speaker 1: Although Bob Krieger has another idea former SWAT commander thirty

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Speaker 1: years in LA law enforcement in Pima, was your idea, Well.

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Speaker 4: If they were asking about strictly Internet service going out,

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Speaker 4: the jammers have a real small radius to work in.

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Speaker 4: If the whole neighborhood went out, would be probably more

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Speaker 4: likely that someone cuts something in.

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Speaker 5: A box or at the house or houses to knock

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Speaker 5: off the service.

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Speaker 4: That's going to cut all the Internet activity, not just

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Speaker 4: the individual Wi Fi singles.

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Speaker 5: So there's you know, it just shows, Okay.

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Speaker 1: What does that main Bob Kraiger, to have the fiber

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Speaker 1: optic cut, that.

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Speaker 4: Means you're not you can't get on the internet. Where

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Speaker 4: your internet is now broken, You can't talk to anything,

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Speaker 4: you can't can't stream anything, no data is coming in,

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Speaker 4: no data is going out. What the jammer does is

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Speaker 4: it just affects the Wi Fi singles from your router

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Speaker 4: inside your house, all your devices that are pushing information out.

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Speaker 4: So the the Internet is still working, it's just being jammed.

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Speaker 4: If the cables are cut or there's a big disruption,

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Speaker 4: that's when the whole neighborhood would go out. That's when

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Speaker 4: you'd get Comcast or Exfinity or whoever your provider is saying, hey,

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Speaker 4: guess what. The Internet's down in your neighborhood. You can't

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Speaker 4: do anything. Uh, and today's world, people are going to

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Speaker 4: panic and everything stops. No streaming, no cels or know anything.

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Speaker 5: That you do on the Internet is done. And that's an.

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Speaker 1: Absolute Bob Krieger. If the fiber optic was the issue.

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Speaker 1: When you say cut, do you mean physically manually cut

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Speaker 1: severed light with scissors or a knife. Yes, okayn't be

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Speaker 1: evidence of that following I mean they can't cut it

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Speaker 1: and repair it. So wouldn't that still be cut the

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Speaker 1: following morning?

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Speaker 5: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: Absolutely, And you would know that whenever you get an

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Speaker 4: outage in your neighborhood. I get a text alert from

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Speaker 4: somebody saying, hey, there's an outage in your neighborhood.

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Speaker 5: You know it's coming.

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Speaker 4: So that's far less likely you have happened, because the

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Speaker 4: internet service provider would know that already.

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Speaker 1: Unless Nancy Guthries could have been cut solely like at

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Speaker 1: her home, the fibrobit leading to her home.

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Speaker 2: I don't know that that's.

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Speaker 1: Possible or how it is set up, but that said,

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Speaker 1: it's still an option. I want to go back to

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Speaker 1: something that James Bass said, and and Krieger, if it's Gibbons,

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Speaker 1: please jump in if you have an idea. You mentioned

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Speaker 1: James Bass that the routes in and out of the

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Speaker 1: neighborhood could be discerned based on this signal Jammer or

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Speaker 1: something to that effect. Again, they did not teach me

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Speaker 1: this in law school. I'm learning right now as we're talking.

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Speaker 1: Aren't you glad you're not one of my witnesses that

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Speaker 1: I would put on the stand because we would be at.

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Speaker 2: This all day.

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Speaker 1: What did you mean by that all day that maybe

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Speaker 1: you could discern a route in and out?

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Speaker 7: Well, first, back to the fiber optic issue.

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Speaker 6: The reason I don't believe it would be a fiber

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Speaker 6: optic issue is because the camera brought was transmitting at

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Speaker 6: this point. So if fiber optic was cut prior to

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Speaker 6: the incident, you would not have had these images recovered

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Speaker 6: on the back end from this. So the way, secondly,

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Speaker 6: the way this signal jammer would work.

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Speaker 7: Is as Bob said, there's a very.

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Speaker 6: Small radius that it can actually kill a signal two

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Speaker 6: to overwhelm a signal transmission. So if it is in

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Speaker 6: use and it's doing its job, as it's driving past homes,

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Speaker 6: you may see not necessarily when I say an internet loss,

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Speaker 6: you're not going to see a router go offline necessarily,

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Speaker 6: but you may see some of your connected devices.

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Speaker 7: You may notice.

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Speaker 6: You may get an internet or a notification that your

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Speaker 6: doorbell stopped working there was a break in service, or

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Speaker 6: a driveway monitor or something. As it drove past it

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Speaker 6: interrupted a signal and there was a record maide somewhere.

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Speaker 6: So knowing this, it would help you establish a timeline.

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Speaker 6: If there were a sequence of interruptions through the houses

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Speaker 6: going down the road, you know, and out, you could

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Speaker 6: kind of discern possibly a route the timeline and I

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Speaker 6: want to say the type, but the sophistication of what

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Speaker 6: you're dealing.

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Speaker 1: With, Okay, that is brilliant. Okay, James, let me see

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Speaker 1: James bass Amount. I'm trying to drink in what you

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Speaker 1: just said. I'm trying to ingest it. You're saying that

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Speaker 1: if the signal jammer had already been turned on as

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Speaker 1: the per was proceeding into the neighborhood, it could very

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Speaker 1: likely jam even.

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Speaker 2: If briefly, devices as it passed.

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Speaker 1: On the way to Nancy's. That would give me an entry.

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Speaker 1: I don't need the time, because I already know the

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Speaker 1: time based on a pacemaker, but it would give me

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Speaker 1: the route, and it would tell me which way they

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Speaker 1: went and how they entered. And if I know that,

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Speaker 1: then maybe I can follow that and get video surveillance

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Speaker 1: from the quick trip or the whatever.

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Speaker 2: Okay, hold on, let me let me.

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Speaker 1: Just what devices could the signal blocker potentially have knocked off.

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Speaker 1: You mentioned a doorbell device. I guess you're talking about

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Speaker 1: a ring or something like that, or a nest a

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Speaker 1: driveway monitor. You're still talking about a ring cam or

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Speaker 1: something to that effect. Would it affect cell service, would

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Speaker 1: it affect any other device as a baby monitor?

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Speaker 2: I don't know what. What else could it affect?

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Speaker 5: Wait?

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Speaker 1: What control room? You had an idea? What pacemaker?

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Speaker 2: You know?

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Speaker 1: Actually I thought of that as I was spouting them off.

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Speaker 1: But would a signal jammer affect a bluetooth connected pastemaker anyway,

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Speaker 1: that's a good idea pacemaker. What else could it affect

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Speaker 1: and air go? How would we get a notice of that?

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Speaker 1: When you say you might have got a record would

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Speaker 1: be made and you may have gotten notice.

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Speaker 2: Okay, first of all, what devices.

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Speaker 6: Really any devices anything that connects to the internet wireless?

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Speaker 1: Hold on, James Bass, Wait a minute, we're just hearing.

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Speaker 1: We've confirmed three other neighbors or asked the same thing

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Speaker 1: about internet connection, not just the neighbor to the west.

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Speaker 1: Now that we spent ten minutes trying to figure out

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Speaker 1: what was the right house, now we know it was

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Speaker 1: not unique to them. That should, I believe, affect your

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Speaker 1: opinion about what's happening. That more neighbors are being questioned.

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Speaker 1: The FBI thinks more people, not just Nancy, not just

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Speaker 1: one neighbor, may have had internet interruption. And it goes

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Speaker 1: along with your theory.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, what we would be looking for, or what they

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Speaker 6: should be looking for, is if there's some sort of

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Speaker 6: interference as a vehicle or as a person walking. However,

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Speaker 6: this happened that Wi Fi jammer has such a small

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Speaker 6: radius that it could knock off as it goes down

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Speaker 6: the road.

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Speaker 7: We see.

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Speaker 1: I know what I was asking you, James, I was

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Speaker 1: asking you what other devices would have been interrupted? Just

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Speaker 1: give me a quick Lautery list off the top of

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Speaker 1: your head.

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Speaker 6: There's a lot of devices that we see every day

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Speaker 6: that are advertised on social media that we're bringing into

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Speaker 6: our lives. You see the solar powered remote security cameras,

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Speaker 6: driveway monitors. Anything that can be connected to the Internet

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Speaker 6: remotely that could be close to this jammer as it

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Speaker 6: went by would have been knocked offline sequential.

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Speaker 7: What about a pacemaker as it traveled down?

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Speaker 1: What about a pacemaker?

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Speaker 6: Pacemaker is a Bluetooth connection that would require a more

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Speaker 6: sophisticated type of jamming, and it's a much closer Not

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Speaker 6: saying it can't be done. It would require another frequency

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Speaker 6: of jamming, and it would also be much closer to

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Speaker 6: the device.

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Speaker 2: Crime stories with Nancy Grace, Brian Gibbons joining me.

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Speaker 1: Director Operations USPA nation Wide Security. He leads a team

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Speaker 1: of investigators that go around the world extracting, finding and

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Speaker 1: extracting missing people, including Mexico. He is a former marine

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Speaker 1: and he is an Iraqi war veteran. He is at

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Speaker 1: USPA Nationwide Security. Brian, Okay, let me try to I'm

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Speaker 1: thinking as I'm talking.

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Speaker 2: Go with me.

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Speaker 1: We've been talking about you and I before we met

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Speaker 1: Bob and James about the timing the timeline based.

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Speaker 2: On what Bass just said.

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Speaker 1: About her bluetooth, I mean her about a pacemaker, which

444
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:58,200
Speaker 1: is bluetooth. He said a different type of device and

445
00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:02,280
Speaker 1: more sophisticated advice or sophisticated device would be needed to

446
00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:10,120
Speaker 1: blot her pacemaker. The timeline, we see the perp trying

447
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:12,200
Speaker 1: to dismantle.

448
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:15,439
Speaker 2: The nest door cam.

449
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:21,760
Speaker 1: At that time, her pastmaker is still going right, he

450
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:25,879
Speaker 1: gets in her pacemaker. Let's see the timeline. Please, you

451
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 1: can put that up for me. Her pacemaker spikes two

452
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:28,960
Speaker 1: a m.

453
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:31,720
Speaker 2: He is already there if he has a signal jammer

454
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:33,960
Speaker 2: at one forty seven. Okay.

455
00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:41,119
Speaker 1: My point is her pacemaker is still working these minutes later.

456
00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:47,120
Speaker 1: Thirteen minutes later, then suddenly pacemaker disconnects to twenty eight,

457
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 1: so the bluetooth was still working. If the signal jammer

458
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:56,040
Speaker 1: was used, Fitz Gibbons, it did not affect her pacemaker.

459
00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:59,359
Speaker 1: See what I mean. He's already disconnecting the door cam.

460
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:02,119
Speaker 1: He's in the area, he's around her house, he's at

461
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:05,639
Speaker 1: her front door, he's entering her door, her pacemaker still working.

462
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:09,159
Speaker 1: So it was not a signal jammer that would have

463
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:12,240
Speaker 1: affected Bluetooth. Do you see what I mean? Brian?

464
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:17,600
Speaker 8: Yeah, absolutely, And I think you know going through that timeline,

465
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:19,040
Speaker 8: it's going it's gonna.

466
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 7: Lead to this. Right, we know this.

467
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 8: We know that that Nest camera was taken right. We

468
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:26,720
Speaker 8: know that that Nest camera was taken away. So we

469
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:31,280
Speaker 8: know at least in those moments when the subject comes

470
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:34,919
Speaker 8: up to remove the camera, that the signal jammer was

471
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:39,320
Speaker 8: not working, right, because law enforcement recovered this from a

472
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:44,480
Speaker 8: transmission from that device to the cloud. So we know

473
00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:47,520
Speaker 8: that the signal jammer wasn't working at that moment, but

474
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:51,160
Speaker 8: we can potentially deduce that it was working earlier.

475
00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:54,080
Speaker 1: I got to write that down so I can study it.

476
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 1: That's a really good observation, Fitzgibbons. Okay, So the signal jammer,

477
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 1: if it exist, did not stop the Nest from recording yet,

478
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:10,240
Speaker 1: because we got some of that video. Okay, But it

479
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:11,800
Speaker 1: could have been turned on after that.

480
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:17,400
Speaker 8: It could have been on go ahead, and it could

481
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:21,400
Speaker 8: have been on and working and jamming that signal while

482
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 8: they entered the house, while they exited the house, and

483
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:27,160
Speaker 8: that what you could be seeing here. We know that

484
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:30,160
Speaker 8: this subject removed that camera at some point and took

485
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:34,720
Speaker 8: it away, So at a minimum, they were aware that

486
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:38,800
Speaker 8: video could be recovered from the physical device. They weren't

487
00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:41,320
Speaker 8: planning on it being recovered from the cloud.

488
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:51,320
Speaker 1: Okay, you Fitzgibbons just hit another important point. Bob Krieger

489
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:57,240
Speaker 1: joining US former swat Pema County Sheriffs thirty years at PEMA.

490
00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:01,200
Speaker 1: Maybe that is why we don't have any additional cam

491
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:05,400
Speaker 1: because when he goes in, he turns on the jammer

492
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 1: and no more cam is available. He jammed it. It's

493
00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:13,200
Speaker 1: possible because if they could have gotten that, if they

494
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:18,320
Speaker 1: could have resurrected like Lazarus, Google resurrected or either cast

495
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:23,320
Speaker 1: FBI Cellular Analysis Survey team resurrected this video, if the

496
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:28,080
Speaker 1: jammer was then turned on, maybe that's why we don't

497
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 1: have any more video. Maybe he thinks he has somehow

498
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:37,960
Speaker 1: dismantled the door cam and then turns it on when

499
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 1: he goes inside. I don't know what he did, but

500
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:43,640
Speaker 1: I do know the FBI thinks he did something. Okay,

501
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 1: play that out to his logical conclusion, Bob Krieger.

502
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:52,240
Speaker 4: It's definitely possible with that though, there's a lot of

503
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:56,160
Speaker 4: stuff going on from a bad guy's perspective, and for me,

504
00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:58,800
Speaker 4: the last thing I'm going to worry about is turning

505
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 4: on and off a single jam if I'm actually using one,

506
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:03,600
Speaker 4: you see it's clearly.

507
00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:03,840
Speaker 5: Not on here.

508
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:06,800
Speaker 4: Like like Brad point it out, I'm not gonna turn

509
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:09,240
Speaker 4: out once I get inside because I'm dealing with way

510
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:13,080
Speaker 4: too much things going on inside. You've got people, you've

511
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 4: you've got everything else that's happening. So to put my

512
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:18,080
Speaker 4: hand in my pocket hit a button, small motor skills,

513
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:23,520
Speaker 4: it's probably not likely. It is definitely possible that it

514
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:26,080
Speaker 4: was turned on and turned off. But at the same time,

515
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:29,200
Speaker 4: if it's on here, you know your crime is has started.

516
00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:34,400
Speaker 4: You've kicked this thing off to start doing things outside

517
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:37,360
Speaker 4: of your normal what you're therefore probably not gonna happen.

518
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:43,520
Speaker 4: And hopefully there is more video evidence. Just because it

519
00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:45,960
Speaker 4: hasn't been released to the public doesn't mean that there's

520
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:49,000
Speaker 4: not video evidence from inside that the FBI that Sheriff's

521
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:52,760
Speaker 4: Department has that they're they're using for their investigation, and

522
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:54,720
Speaker 4: they felt it's just not time to release it yet.

523
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:56,240
Speaker 4: I don't know why that would be.

524
00:31:56,440 --> 00:32:00,440
Speaker 1: Well, we know she went out, we know she went

525
00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:03,320
Speaker 1: out the front door, but there's no video of her

526
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:04,760
Speaker 1: going out in the front door or else.

527
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:05,800
Speaker 2: It hasn't been released.

528
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:08,760
Speaker 1: So if they could resurrect the video of him coming in,

529
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:12,040
Speaker 1: then why can't we resurrect the video of her going out.

530
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:15,320
Speaker 1: We also know there are cameras on the inside, so

531
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:16,840
Speaker 1: maybe that's what they were.

532
00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:20,920
Speaker 2: Trying to block. That said, that's a development. Now.

533
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:23,400
Speaker 1: I wondered all night, why is.

534
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:24,880
Speaker 2: The FBI back at the scene.

535
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 1: What are they doing? What are they asking the neighbors?

536
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:30,880
Speaker 1: Now we know some of the questions that they were asking.

537
00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:32,600
Speaker 1: But I've got to tell you I was talking about

538
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:35,480
Speaker 1: it last night on air. I don't think I ever

539
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:37,960
Speaker 1: tried well, I know, I didn't try a single case

540
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:41,960
Speaker 1: that I did not go back to the scene multiple times,

541
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:46,600
Speaker 1: multiple times, especially if I was looking for forensic evidence

542
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:49,040
Speaker 1: that I thought maybe had been overlooked. I remember going

543
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:52,240
Speaker 1: to one playground in a housing project at all hours

544
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:55,200
Speaker 1: of the day and night, trying to find ballistics that

545
00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:58,600
Speaker 1: I thought maybe had been overlooked because there was so

546
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:07,000
Speaker 1: much spent cartridges, bullets, glassy bags, syringes, rubbers, you name it.

547
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:10,600
Speaker 1: On the children's playground where a triple homicide went down

548
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:14,000
Speaker 1: about eleven pm on a Sunday night. I thought, well,

549
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:16,400
Speaker 1: it was at night. Did they miss something? What can

550
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 1: I went back and back and back, so them going

551
00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:23,960
Speaker 1: back to the scene is not unusual. But I'm very

552
00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:26,880
Speaker 1: curious about the questions they are asking because it gives

553
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:29,800
Speaker 1: me insight about the direction in which they are going.

554
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:31,240
Speaker 2: Guys have got so much to get to.

555
00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:33,840
Speaker 1: Okay, back to you, Dave Matt Crime Stories investigator reporter,

556
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:37,200
Speaker 1: What can you tell me about investigators speaking to trash companies?

557
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:41,200
Speaker 3: You know, Nancy, this is something that they that investigators

558
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:43,840
Speaker 3: have been doing since the very beginning. They were picking

559
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:48,280
Speaker 3: up trash in the area around the home of Nancy Guthrie.

560
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:52,440
Speaker 3: We saw them toting trash and putting it up as evidence.

561
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:55,800
Speaker 3: They have reached out that investigators have talked to trash

562
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:59,320
Speaker 3: companies of where their trash is picked up and where

563
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:02,600
Speaker 3: it is taken. We know they are investigating with those

564
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:06,760
Speaker 3: trash companies to determine where the trash from that neighborhood

565
00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:09,279
Speaker 3: is taken. We don't know the result of what they've

566
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:15,279
Speaker 3: found out, but reaching out trash from an occurrence, Well, you.

567
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:17,440
Speaker 1: Know what I think about that, Brian Fitzgibbons. I believe

568
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:19,600
Speaker 1: that is this is from our friends at Fox Needs.

569
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:26,240
Speaker 1: By the way, Brian Fitzgibbons, USPA Nationwide Security, Brian, instead

570
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:28,240
Speaker 1: of hearing my thoughts, I want to hear your thoughts

571
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:31,440
Speaker 1: about what they would be looking for, not just getting

572
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:34,759
Speaker 1: the trash that they accumulated that day, but now going

573
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:36,520
Speaker 1: to the trash companies.

574
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:38,720
Speaker 2: What is it they're looking for.

575
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:42,719
Speaker 8: Yeah, they're going to be trying to find out, you know,

576
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:46,160
Speaker 8: what the dates and times of pickups were, and then

577
00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:49,839
Speaker 8: they're going to find out what transfer centers that that

578
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 8: trash was taken to and ultimately it's final location. Because

579
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:58,520
Speaker 8: these things are gritted out, like we've seen in so

580
00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:04,000
Speaker 8: many other cases like Zan Clark in Texas. These trash,

581
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:07,920
Speaker 8: you know, dumps are on a schedule, on a grid,

582
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:12,400
Speaker 8: and you can identify precisely where trash from a certain

583
00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:14,080
Speaker 8: date range was deposited.

584
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:19,839
Speaker 1: But again, could you tell me your best guess, an

585
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:22,799
Speaker 1: educated guess, about what they would be looking for.

586
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:27,400
Speaker 8: I would have to think they're thinking that the purpse

587
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:34,520
Speaker 8: may have dumped clothing items or equipment items, you know, bags, gloves,

588
00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:38,760
Speaker 8: clothing that in that trash.

589
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:40,200
Speaker 5: I would I would think that that would be what

590
00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:41,000
Speaker 5: they're looking for.

591
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:47,160
Speaker 1: Mm hmmmm hmm. Okay, what about it, Bob Kraeger, What

592
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:50,120
Speaker 1: would they be looking for? Why are they contacting trash companies?

593
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:53,080
Speaker 5: I agree with I think that Brian said.

594
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:57,160
Speaker 4: You know, at this point, anything if you're running out,

595
00:35:57,160 --> 00:36:00,240
Speaker 4: you throw your gloves in there, it's probably something smallerrobably

596
00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:01,160
Speaker 4: something to try and get.

597
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:02,839
Speaker 5: Some DNA off over things like that.

598
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:10,799
Speaker 4: But you know, landfills our science and it's they will

599
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:13,279
Speaker 4: be able to get in an area where things might be,

600
00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:16,240
Speaker 4: they'll be able to identify it and look for anything

601
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:18,760
Speaker 4: that you might see on this video right here. Because

602
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:21,960
Speaker 4: the first thing, you know, folks do when they flee

603
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:24,640
Speaker 4: seems like this, is they start changing their appearance. That

604
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:26,640
Speaker 4: jacket's going to be off, those gloves are going to

605
00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:28,759
Speaker 4: be off, the mask is going to be off, and

606
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:30,960
Speaker 4: you know, you might drive somewhere and throw it in

607
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:33,399
Speaker 4: a trash can a block or two or a mile

608
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:35,440
Speaker 4: or two away. You know, it all depends on the

609
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:38,040
Speaker 4: tips that they got that have been coming in and

610
00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:39,440
Speaker 4: that's what they're following up on Mountain.

611
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:45,920
Speaker 1: You know his gibbons very often. I mean, I'm thrilled

612
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:50,239
Speaker 1: about the high tech nature of this investigation, because high

613
00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:56,719
Speaker 1: tech really the coburger case. That said, think about it.

614
00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:00,920
Speaker 1: People make all sorts of mistake in the heat of

615
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:07,720
Speaker 1: the moment. For instance, here's a good one, Jennifer Dulo's

616
00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:12,720
Speaker 1: Connecticut motor five. She's dead, her husband photos Dulo's piece

617
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 1: of crap, murdered her. Her body has never been found.

618
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:19,200
Speaker 1: How do I know he murdered her because he's caught

619
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:26,640
Speaker 1: on camera with his mistress throwing out in multiple trash

620
00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:27,560
Speaker 1: cans around town.

621
00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:32,640
Speaker 2: Idiot, bloody bra, bloody T shirt, bloody rags.

622
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:35,879
Speaker 1: I know she's dead, even though we have never found

623
00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:39,239
Speaker 1: the body, because of a copious amount of blood, her

624
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:42,839
Speaker 1: blood found in their garage, so much blood a human

625
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:46,360
Speaker 1: could not survive if they lost that much blood. But

626
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:49,400
Speaker 1: yet there he goes, throwing away the evidence, which of course.

627
00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:52,200
Speaker 2: The police went and found. He's caught on video.

628
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:57,120
Speaker 1: So what Kreeker just said is right, You're leaving with

629
00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:01,560
Speaker 1: Nancy Guthrie in your vehicle, and you want to get

630
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:04,440
Speaker 1: rid of that face, that ski mask. You want to

631
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:08,640
Speaker 1: get rid of that jacket or anything else associating you

632
00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:13,640
Speaker 1: with this crime. They may very well in that moment

633
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:16,919
Speaker 1: put it in a trash can would I do at?

634
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:16,960
Speaker 7: No?

635
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:18,360
Speaker 1: Would somebody else do it?

636
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:18,760
Speaker 7: Yes?

637
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 5: Yeah, Bob spot on here. And we also know.

638
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:27,400
Speaker 8: That missus Guthrie was bleeding as she was exiting that house,

639
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:31,040
Speaker 8: so there could have been an item, that jacket could

640
00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:32,879
Speaker 8: have had blood on it, and they want to get

641
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:37,239
Speaker 8: discard that right away as quickly as possible, you know,

642
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:39,200
Speaker 8: not only to change the appearance.

643
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:40,600
Speaker 5: But to get rid of that evidence as quickly as

644
00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:41,000
Speaker 5: they can.

645
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:44,080
Speaker 2: Let me see if it's Gibbons again.

646
00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:47,040
Speaker 1: You know, I just had another thought, and I owe

647
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:52,640
Speaker 1: it all to photos Doolers. You said, as we all

648
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:57,600
Speaker 1: know that Nancy was bleeding, I wonder if they didn't

649
00:38:57,640 --> 00:39:02,480
Speaker 1: take that vehicle for a full on cleaning, I mean

650
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:06,359
Speaker 1: a deep cleaning, because that's what Doulos did. He even

651
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:10,040
Speaker 1: took the back seat out of the car, which later

652
00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:14,720
Speaker 1: yielded DNA from his dead wife, Jennifer Dulos.

653
00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:18,440
Speaker 2: But that said, that's another lead.

654
00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:22,279
Speaker 1: It's a weekly, very weak, but it's something having the

655
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:25,280
Speaker 1: vehicle deep cleaned.

656
00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:28,400
Speaker 2: Saw Coburger do it? Votus Dulos did it?

657
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:33,160
Speaker 1: Many many perps immediately think they can out smart CSI

658
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:34,760
Speaker 1: and get rid of all the evidence.

659
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:37,040
Speaker 2: Don't you know they had that vehicle cleaned.

660
00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:42,560
Speaker 8: Spot on and you know with this reward money well

661
00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:47,279
Speaker 8: over a million dollars. These are you know, items that

662
00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:51,319
Speaker 8: add to the list to describe this perpetrator who you know,

663
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:54,800
Speaker 8: in the last you know, thirty plus days, has probably

664
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:59,320
Speaker 8: been following this case quite extensively, has probably been acting,

665
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:03,480
Speaker 8: you know, stay at home more often than not, acting

666
00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:07,240
Speaker 8: nervous and anxious, doing things like getting a car deep cleaned.

667
00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:10,759
Speaker 8: You know, this is something that could help drive a

668
00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:12,520
Speaker 8: tip to the.

669
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:18,920
Speaker 1: FBI, I mean fitz Gibbons, Bass Kreeger. Every time a

670
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:21,399
Speaker 1: guy murders his wife, he always turns into a neat

671
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:25,360
Speaker 1: nick first thing Peterson wanted to do after he murdered

672
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:28,560
Speaker 1: Lace he was due to laundry first time ever. Right

673
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:33,080
Speaker 1: that said, getting the car deep cleaned, or I've seen perhaps.

674
00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:35,600
Speaker 2: Actually burn the car.

675
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:40,279
Speaker 1: After a murder, or ditch the car, wait for it

676
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:42,920
Speaker 1: to get stolen, leave it somewhere with the keys in it,

677
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:46,680
Speaker 1: get rid of it, so that car actually may have

678
00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:48,360
Speaker 1: been destroyed by now what do you think about that?

679
00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:48,800
Speaker 2: Kreeger?

680
00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:54,440
Speaker 5: Very likely, especially if there was blood involved.

681
00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:57,080
Speaker 4: You know, the deserts of Pema County or vast it's

682
00:40:57,120 --> 00:41:01,880
Speaker 4: a huge geographical area. Car could go out to the

683
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:04,359
Speaker 4: west and three points in that area down towards the border.

684
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:06,920
Speaker 4: Doesn't have to make it into Mexico. But they could

685
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:08,680
Speaker 4: just park it and leave it there and it might

686
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:12,319
Speaker 4: not be seen for years. That's just the nature of

687
00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:14,040
Speaker 4: the area that we live in. So for something like

688
00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:18,400
Speaker 4: that to happen, it's honestly a diamond dozen of vehicle fires, stolen,

689
00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:22,239
Speaker 4: car burned, destroyed, All of those things are possibilities and

690
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:26,160
Speaker 4: honestly likelihoods if they were thinking about how they're going.

691
00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:28,840
Speaker 5: To train and cover up excuse me, what they have done.

692
00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:32,920
Speaker 1: Bob Krieger are joining US former SWAT commander Pema County

693
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:37,239
Speaker 1: Sheriffs in Peyma thirty years. We'll get to Nanos on

694
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:40,680
Speaker 1: another day. That just slows me down in this investigation.

695
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:48,319
Speaker 1: Brian fitz Gibbons, USPA Nationwide Security James Bass joining US

696
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:56,399
Speaker 1: digital forensics analysts and expert as evidenced tonight at Evidence Solutions, Inc.

697
00:41:56,880 --> 00:42:01,280
Speaker 1: Right there in Tucson, and of course is investigative reporter

698
00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:06,600
Speaker 1: our Dave mac thank you, gentlemen. Again, there is a

699
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:11,479
Speaker 1: one point two plus million dollar reward for Pete's sake.

700
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:14,239
Speaker 1: If you know or think you know anything about the

701
00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:18,400
Speaker 1: disappearance of Nancy Guthrie, please dial toll free eight hundred

702
00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:22,880
Speaker 1: two two five five three two four repeat eight hundred

703
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:26,600
Speaker 1: two two five five three two four eight hundred call FBI,

704
00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:29,520
Speaker 1: or if you wish to remain anonymous five to two

705
00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:34,120
Speaker 1: zero eight eight two seven four sixty three five two

706
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:38,759
Speaker 1: zero eight eight two seven four six three. Thank you

707
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:43,239
Speaker 1: to our amazing guests, but especially to you for being

708
00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:46,759
Speaker 1: with us tonight and joining us in our search for

709
00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:53,880
Speaker 1: the truth as to the whereabouts of grandmother Nancy Guthrie.

710
00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:56,239
Speaker 1: Nancy Gray signing off for tonight, but I'll see tomorrow night,

711
00:42:56,239 --> 00:42:58,279
Speaker 1: and until then, good night, friend,