WEBVTT - Postcards from the Edge with Crystal

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<v Speaker 1>On the Bechdecast, the questions asked if movies have women

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<v Speaker 1>and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,

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<v Speaker 1>or do they have individualism? It's the patriarchy, zeph and

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<v Speaker 1>best start changing it with the Bechdel Cast.

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<v Speaker 2>Caitlin, yes, Jamie, should I sing?

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<v Speaker 3>Yes? Yes? You should?

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<v Speaker 2>Should I podcast? That really was the equivalent of recording

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<v Speaker 2>a live podcast at your daughter's sobriety party. Yeah, to

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<v Speaker 2>be like, Okay, first of all, I'm fucked up. Second

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<v Speaker 2>of all, let's let's record a podcast.

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<v Speaker 3>Yo, let's steal the show.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome Home, not Carys make it all about me. I love,

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<v Speaker 2>oh oh, I love the degree to which this is

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<v Speaker 2>obviously carried. But Carrie has to be like, no, what

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<v Speaker 2>could you possibly mean me? What is it? The wig?

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<v Speaker 2>Is it Shirley McLean's wig? Welcome to the becht Cast.

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<v Speaker 2>My name is Jamie Loftus, my name is Caitlin Droonte.

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<v Speaker 2>This is our show where we examine movies through an

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<v Speaker 2>intersectional feminist lens, using the Bechdel test simply as a

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<v Speaker 2>jumping off point. And Jamie, what on earth is that? Well,

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<v Speaker 2>the Bechdel test, We're not gonna have a trouble with

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<v Speaker 2>it today, I tell you that much. It is a

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<v Speaker 2>media metric originally created by queer cartoonist Alison Bechdel urginally

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<v Speaker 2>created like as a one off joke in her comic

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<v Speaker 2>collection dis to Watch Out four, but has since been

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<v Speaker 2>adapted to a more generalized media metric. And our version

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<v Speaker 2>of it requires that two characters of a marginalized gender

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<v Speaker 2>with names speak to each other about something other than

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<v Speaker 2>a man for more than two lines of dialogue. And

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<v Speaker 2>in spite of Dennis Quaid's larger presence in this movie

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<v Speaker 2>than you'd think, this movie does pass the Bechdel test.

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<v Speaker 2>And if that's why you're listening to this show, get

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<v Speaker 2>a life.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, we've got bigger fish to fry today real in

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<v Speaker 3>every episode. Yes, today is our episode on Postcards from

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<v Speaker 3>the Edge nineteen ninety and our returning guest is a

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<v Speaker 3>drag artist known for RuPaul's Drag Race UK season one.

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<v Speaker 3>She's a host of the podcast Camp Classics, and you

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<v Speaker 3>remember her from our episodes on Jawbreaker, Show Girls, Bram

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<v Speaker 3>Stoker's Dracula, The Raine.

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<v Speaker 2>It's Crystal.

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<v Speaker 4>Oh my gosh, is this my fourth appearance?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 2>One appearance away from a jacket, Oh my god.

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<v Speaker 4>And truly what a bunch of different camp flavored movies. Oh,

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<v Speaker 4>I'm so glad to be back. Thank you. Yeah. Absolutely,

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<v Speaker 4>wigs exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, the line there's blood on the wig. Really,

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<v Speaker 2>it's so evocative.

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<v Speaker 4>Could have easily been in Bramstoker's Dracula. Actually so true.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome back, Thank you so much for bringing us. Thank

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<v Speaker 2>you this wonderful movie.

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<v Speaker 4>Oh, I'm so excited to talk about it. I've had

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<v Speaker 4>such a nice time this week, like just reimmersing myself

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<v Speaker 4>in this world. It's it's delicious.

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<v Speaker 3>Tell us all about your history, your relationship with the film,

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<v Speaker 3>maybe the book, if you've read it, tell us everything.

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<v Speaker 4>I'm a drag queen. I haven't read the book. And

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<v Speaker 4>to be honest with you, this movie was kind of

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<v Speaker 4>new to me. I think I discovered it only a

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<v Speaker 4>year ago, and I was in Mexico and I had

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<v Speaker 4>just taken some over the counter cold medication that really

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<v Speaker 4>spun me out, and I was laying on my hotel bed,

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<v Speaker 4>like literally gripping the bed, and I was like, I need,

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<v Speaker 4>I need to find something to do, and this movie

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<v Speaker 4>just got suggested to me on like whatever, some streaming

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<v Speaker 4>service and I watched it. It was obviously perfect viewing

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<v Speaker 4>for the state I was in, but yeah, I had

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<v Speaker 4>never even heard of it before before or that moment.

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<v Speaker 4>And then we covered it on my podcast a couple

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<v Speaker 4>months later, and I rewatched it and I was like, oh, yeah, no,

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<v Speaker 4>it's wasn't just the painkillers. It wasn't just the cold medicine.

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<v Speaker 4>It was good, But yeah, I've got it. It's one

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<v Speaker 4>of those movies that, like, I feel like I should

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<v Speaker 4>have already been obsessed with, but it somehow passed me by.

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<v Speaker 4>And I don't know if that's the same for for

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<v Speaker 4>you guys, but like it feels a little forgotten somehow,

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<v Speaker 4>despite being like a commercial success, a critical success.

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<v Speaker 3>A solid cast.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah. Yeah, but yeah, it just feels a bit overlooked.

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<v Speaker 3>I agree.

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<v Speaker 4>So, yeah, glad to be here singing its praises.

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<v Speaker 2>Jamie, what about you? I am the opposite. I am

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<v Speaker 2>a I'm a loser. So I have read the book,

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<v Speaker 2>but I also hadn't seen the movie. We've been talking

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<v Speaker 2>about Carrie Fisher quite a bit. Recently. We just covered

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<v Speaker 2>Empire Strikes Back. We covered her Legends episode on Daily Psych.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm always thinking about Carrie Fisher, So it's weird that

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<v Speaker 2>I hadn't seen this movie before, But either way, she's

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<v Speaker 2>one of my favorite writers. I love. I've read all

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<v Speaker 2>of her books and if you haven't, I know I

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<v Speaker 2>said this on the show recently, but if you haven't

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<v Speaker 2>given yourself the gift of a Carrie Fisher audio book,

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<v Speaker 2>she reads them all and it is just like the

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<v Speaker 2>best experience you could possibly have. And this is a

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<v Speaker 2>really good book too, And she also reads the audiobook

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<v Speaker 2>to the book. She you know, she's the greatest. I

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<v Speaker 2>just like admire her so much. I think her work

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<v Speaker 2>is so timeless, and so it is I agree Crystal,

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<v Speaker 2>like bizarre that this movie isn't talked about more because

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<v Speaker 2>it is. I mean, it's definitely a product of its time,

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<v Speaker 2>but in a way that I really like. Something that

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<v Speaker 2>I appreciate about Carrie Fisher's writing more and more the

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<v Speaker 2>more I live is how open, not only open she

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<v Speaker 2>is about mental health and addiction issues, but how like

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<v Speaker 2>in the way that does is not going to work

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<v Speaker 2>for everyone, but really worked for me. How like self

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<v Speaker 2>deprecating she is about it, and how matter of fact

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<v Speaker 2>she is. I feel like stories of addiction are so

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<v Speaker 2>often tragedy porn, and that's just not how she writes

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<v Speaker 2>about addiction, even though you know it was a huge

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<v Speaker 2>specter in her life. And also now knowing I haven't

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<v Speaker 2>finished it yet, but that Mike Nichols also had extensive

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<v Speaker 2>issues with addiction throughout his life, and I feel like

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<v Speaker 2>he's bringing his sensibility to the same topic. And I

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<v Speaker 2>just I don't know. This movie was like my mom's

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<v Speaker 2>visiting right now, so right place, right time. The themes

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<v Speaker 2>were really theming for me this week, and I'm like

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<v Speaker 2>so happy to have this movie in my life. I

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<v Speaker 2>also watched it on I think two be so now.

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<v Speaker 2>It's the kind of movie where you're like, I love

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<v Speaker 2>how Postcards in the Edge has this same sports gambling

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<v Speaker 2>commercial in it forty five times. It's my favorite.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that's how it's remembered. Yes, I too have a mother,

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<v Speaker 3>and I too perhaps have a complicated relationship with her. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>I had never seen this movie either. I've notne about

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<v Speaker 3>it for a while, and I knew that Carrie Fisher

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<v Speaker 3>was involved in some way, but I thought it was

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<v Speaker 3>because she was the star of the movie, not the

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<v Speaker 3>semi autobiographical subject of the movie. Slash writer and I

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<v Speaker 3>knew that she was a writer, but I didn't know

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<v Speaker 3>to what extent. I mostly knew her as a script doctor.

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<v Speaker 3>I didn't realize she had such an extensive library of novels.

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<v Speaker 3>And I knew about Wishful Drinking, and I recently watched

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<v Speaker 3>her solo show of it, which I enjoyed very very much.

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<v Speaker 3>But yeah, I'm learning so much about Carrie Fisher recently,

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<v Speaker 3>and the more I learned, the more I love her.

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<v Speaker 3>Rip to a legend.

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<v Speaker 2>She's so amazing. I also yeah that I did not know.

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<v Speaker 2>I knew Meryl Streep, Charlie McLean, but truly, it's like

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<v Speaker 2>almost everyone in this movie is so famous, even like yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>and it builds in this fun way where you're like,

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<v Speaker 2>whoa CCX Pounder is in this That's so fun. I

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<v Speaker 2>love her. Gene Hackman is yelling, Anette Benning is sluting

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<v Speaker 2>out all of her a late stage, all of our.

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<v Speaker 3>All that flat.

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<v Speaker 4>Rob Ryaner is there.

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<v Speaker 2>Rob Ryer just incredible. Richard Dreyfuss, who I didn't recognize,

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<v Speaker 2>and my mom was like, upset, I don't know, and

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<v Speaker 2>then I had her, and then I had to tell

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<v Speaker 2>her Dennis Quaid was a Republican. We had to have

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<v Speaker 2>the talk about Dennis Quayne. You know what an adventure.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm so excited to talk more about it. So let's

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<v Speaker 3>take a quick break and then we'll come back for

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<v Speaker 3>the recap.

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<v Speaker 2>And we're back. Also music by Carly Simon. It should

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<v Speaker 2>be so.

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<v Speaker 3>I didn't realize that.

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<v Speaker 2>Really, Yeah, this movie should be considered a classic.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, it's got literally everything going for it, not the

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<v Speaker 4>least salacious celebrity gossip, which normally, you know, as a

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<v Speaker 4>culture we're really into.

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<v Speaker 2>It's really I just wanted to shout out because I

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<v Speaker 2>know I talked about it, I think on the Zegist

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<v Speaker 2>episode as well. But Carrie Fisher wrote not many other

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<v Speaker 2>movies that sounded like there was like a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>development hell issues. But yes, to continue what you were saying, Caitlin,

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<v Speaker 2>she script doctored famously sister act Anastasia the Wedding Singer.

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<v Speaker 2>She also wrote this movie that's also on Toby that

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<v Speaker 2>I watched for fun recently that Shirley McClain is also in,

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<v Speaker 2>called These Old Broads And if you want to watch

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<v Speaker 2>a very disjointed movie that has a lot of old

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<v Speaker 2>Hollywood gossip, heavily alluded to it. You gotta watch these

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<v Speaker 2>old broads with all the two B commercials. It's Shirley McLain,

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<v Speaker 2>Debbie Reynolds, Joan Collins, and Elizabeth Taylor. H And if

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<v Speaker 2>you know, you know, if you don't, you're gonna be

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<v Speaker 2>so confused by these old broads.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I remember you mentioning that, And it is also

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<v Speaker 3>mentioned in the Be Kind Rewind.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's how I learned about it.

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<v Speaker 3>Video essay about Carrie Fisher as a writer. I highly

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<v Speaker 3>recommend watching that video. But she mentions how that movie

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<v Speaker 3>kind of paves the way for like older women buddy comedies,

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<v Speaker 3>which I associate with James.

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<v Speaker 2>Bonda, Lily Tomlin, all those all those divas. It's a

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<v Speaker 2>good genre. We got to keep that genre alive.

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<v Speaker 3>Shout out eighty for Brady. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, the movies. The movies do not have to be good.

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<v Speaker 2>They just need to be made. They just need to

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<v Speaker 2>be there.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, we just need to see Shirley mclin doing things exciting.

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<v Speaker 4>It doesn't really doesn't matter what.

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<v Speaker 3>It does not matter what.

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<v Speaker 2>She's so important. I'd love for her.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>All right, here's the recap for both Cards from the Edge.

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<v Speaker 3>But first, a quick content warning for things like drug use, addiction, rape,

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<v Speaker 3>and sexual assault. We'll talk about it. But the movie

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<v Speaker 3>opens on Meryl Streep traveling to the US from an

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<v Speaker 3>unspecified Latin American country, but she's pulled aside at passport control.

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<v Speaker 3>There's violence, there's conflict there, but then she messes up

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<v Speaker 3>her line because we're on a movie set and she's

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<v Speaker 3>an actor named Suzanne Veil.

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<v Speaker 2>It is so fun seeing Meryl Streep look to camera.

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<v Speaker 2>It's so jarring.

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<v Speaker 4>I love it so good.

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<v Speaker 2>You're like, wait, you never do that, You famously never

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<v Speaker 2>do that. I Oh god, I having just seen The

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<v Speaker 2>Devil Wars Prota two, which I thought was aggressively mid

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<v Speaker 2>but I did see it. I saw it in a

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<v Speaker 2>new movie format that I also wouldn't recommend, but it

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<v Speaker 2>maybe laugh a few times. It's called screenex I don't

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<v Speaker 2>know they have one in Burbank now where it's basically

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<v Speaker 2>like there's three screens, but there's been no movie filmed

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<v Speaker 2>for this format, so it's just you're watching The Devil

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<v Speaker 2>War's Prota.

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<v Speaker 4>Two but like three times.

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<v Speaker 2>No, it's just really stretched out on the side. And

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<v Speaker 2>there was, oh, the best joke in the Devil Wars

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<v Speaker 2>Prota two can only be seen in the screenex because

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<v Speaker 2>there is one scene where Meryl Streep is sitting to

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<v Speaker 2>the side and she's so stretched. Don't anyways, it's not

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<v Speaker 2>very good. But that's okay. It doesn't need to be good,

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<v Speaker 2>it just has to be made.

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<v Speaker 3>Wow the theme of the episode.

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<v Speaker 4>But I love this trope of like you're watching a

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<v Speaker 4>scene and then the camera pulls back and you're like, oh,

0:13:15.520 --> 0:13:17.720
<v Speaker 4>it was just all a set. It's so fun.

0:13:17.840 --> 0:13:19.080
<v Speaker 3>I love a reveal like that.

0:13:19.440 --> 0:13:22.720
<v Speaker 4>Uh huh. It reminds me of who framed Roger Rabbit.

0:13:23.040 --> 0:13:26.880
<v Speaker 3>Yes, that is exactly how that movie opens. You don't

0:13:26.920 --> 0:13:30.200
<v Speaker 3>know it's a movie. Then a character messes up, does

0:13:30.200 --> 0:13:32.679
<v Speaker 3>a little blooper, and you're like, wait a minute, I've

0:13:32.679 --> 0:13:34.920
<v Speaker 3>been watching a movie within a movie this whole time.

0:13:35.200 --> 0:13:36.079
<v Speaker 4>It's a great gimmick.

0:13:36.240 --> 0:13:38.680
<v Speaker 2>It makes you think it always works.

0:13:39.280 --> 0:13:43.120
<v Speaker 3>So, yes, we realize that she is Susanne Vail, an

0:13:43.160 --> 0:13:48.079
<v Speaker 3>actor and the director of the movie she's starring in. Lowell,

0:13:48.160 --> 0:13:52.120
<v Speaker 3>played by Gene Hackman, pulls her aside and tells her

0:13:52.440 --> 0:13:56.680
<v Speaker 3>not to fuck up his movie because he and everyone

0:13:56.760 --> 0:14:01.760
<v Speaker 3>else knows that she is using a lot of drugs

0:14:01.800 --> 0:14:06.920
<v Speaker 3>on set. We cut to Suzanne passed out in bed

0:14:07.400 --> 0:14:12.240
<v Speaker 3>with a guy, presumably a lover, played by Dennis Quaid.

0:14:12.400 --> 0:14:16.280
<v Speaker 2>Dennis Quaid with slightly frosted tips, Dennis Quaid with highlights.

0:14:16.360 --> 0:14:18.760
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, he puts son in in his hair.

0:14:19.040 --> 0:14:21.840
<v Speaker 4>And my toxic trade is I think Dennis Quaid looks

0:14:22.120 --> 0:14:23.280
<v Speaker 4>really hot in this movie.

0:14:24.640 --> 0:14:29.360
<v Speaker 2>Fortunately does he does? He looks. I still like a

0:14:29.720 --> 0:14:33.480
<v Speaker 2>very formative crush for me. Was Dennis Quaiden parent trap?

0:14:33.880 --> 0:14:39.000
<v Speaker 2>Like sure, Peak Quaid, It's just it's it's a shame.

0:14:39.320 --> 0:14:39.960
<v Speaker 2>It's a shame.

0:14:40.080 --> 0:14:42.080
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, but we did have to kill him.

0:14:42.600 --> 0:14:43.840
<v Speaker 4>Yes did.

0:14:44.760 --> 0:14:48.600
<v Speaker 3>Anyway, he realizes that Suzanne is unresponsive. He's trying to

0:14:48.600 --> 0:14:52.280
<v Speaker 3>wake her up. She's apparently overdosed on pills, so he

0:14:52.360 --> 0:14:55.680
<v Speaker 3>rushes her to the er, acts like he doesn't know her,

0:14:55.800 --> 0:14:56.960
<v Speaker 3>and then speeds.

0:14:56.560 --> 0:14:59.920
<v Speaker 4>Away, also very looney tunes, honestly like yes.

0:15:00.800 --> 0:15:09.240
<v Speaker 3>Peels out. So doctor Richard Dreyfus pumps Susanne's stomach and

0:15:09.280 --> 0:15:13.760
<v Speaker 3>saves her life. She wakes up and in the hospital

0:15:13.840 --> 0:15:17.920
<v Speaker 3>room with her is C. C. H. Pounder. She's the

0:15:17.920 --> 0:15:21.119
<v Speaker 3>director of the rehab unit at this hospital.

0:15:21.400 --> 0:15:23.960
<v Speaker 2>I kept waiting for her to come back. I'm bummed

0:15:23.960 --> 0:15:26.960
<v Speaker 2>that she doesn't come back. She's such a fun The

0:15:27.080 --> 0:15:30.480
<v Speaker 2>like exchange between her and Meryl Streep about you only

0:15:30.480 --> 0:15:32.360
<v Speaker 2>speak and bumper stickers is so funny.

0:15:33.040 --> 0:15:38.920
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. So she is there to admit Suzanne to rehab

0:15:39.360 --> 0:15:42.880
<v Speaker 3>and mentions that if they hadn't pumped her stomach, she

0:15:42.920 --> 0:15:46.000
<v Speaker 3>would have died, which is a bit of a wake

0:15:46.080 --> 0:15:47.520
<v Speaker 3>up call to Suzanne.

0:15:47.840 --> 0:15:50.960
<v Speaker 4>Meryl is just so good in this scene. It's I mean,

0:15:51.000 --> 0:15:52.720
<v Speaker 4>I don't know if anyone's ever said it before, but

0:15:53.480 --> 0:15:58.120
<v Speaker 4>what an actress can You can really see her like

0:15:58.680 --> 0:16:02.120
<v Speaker 4>building her defensive nos and like using humor to get

0:16:02.160 --> 0:16:05.560
<v Speaker 4>out of this situation that is obviously incredibly uncomfortable for her.

0:16:06.160 --> 0:16:10.440
<v Speaker 4>It's just it's so incredible how much she can tell

0:16:10.480 --> 0:16:13.240
<v Speaker 4>you about her character in this scene where she's waking

0:16:13.320 --> 0:16:15.800
<v Speaker 4>up in a hospital that it's ah, I love it,

0:16:15.840 --> 0:16:16.280
<v Speaker 4>I love it.

0:16:16.120 --> 0:16:20.440
<v Speaker 2>It's I love dialogue movies, but like just the when

0:16:20.520 --> 0:16:22.800
<v Speaker 2>this movie and Mike Nichols is so good at dialogue

0:16:22.840 --> 0:16:26.760
<v Speaker 2>movies when they just give Merrill and Shirley McLain room

0:16:26.880 --> 0:16:31.840
<v Speaker 2>to act capital a. It's so good I could keep

0:16:31.880 --> 0:16:34.400
<v Speaker 2>watching it for another forty five minutes.

0:16:34.880 --> 0:16:39.520
<v Speaker 3>Yes, Yeah, So a short time later, Suzanne's mother Doris,

0:16:39.640 --> 0:16:44.280
<v Speaker 3>played by Shirley McLain comes to the hospital and we

0:16:44.400 --> 0:16:49.720
<v Speaker 3>learn that she is also a movie star. She is

0:16:50.760 --> 0:16:54.640
<v Speaker 3>a queer icon She's a legend in her craft.

0:16:54.640 --> 0:16:57.400
<v Speaker 4>Isn't there something like CEC Pounder says something like, we

0:16:57.440 --> 0:16:59.040
<v Speaker 4>just need to get to the bottom of why you

0:16:59.080 --> 0:17:02.120
<v Speaker 4>take all these drugs? And then Shirley McLean's.

0:17:01.720 --> 0:17:10.280
<v Speaker 3>Like, hello, great writing, so good, and so Doris and

0:17:10.320 --> 0:17:14.840
<v Speaker 3>Suzanne's relationship is perhaps a bit complicated.

0:17:15.119 --> 0:17:20.640
<v Speaker 2>It's a bit tense, also iconic, barely disguising Debbie Reynold's name,

0:17:21.200 --> 0:17:24.600
<v Speaker 2>Doris sure, sure, by the hell not.

0:17:25.240 --> 0:17:30.000
<v Speaker 3>Doris is perhaps a bit overbearing and micromanagy as a parent,

0:17:30.840 --> 0:17:34.919
<v Speaker 3>and Suzanne is a bit resentful toward her.

0:17:35.000 --> 0:17:39.840
<v Speaker 2>Maybe and just like a category five narcissist, like hmm,

0:17:40.240 --> 0:17:42.040
<v Speaker 2>everything is about her.

0:17:42.359 --> 0:17:47.320
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. We will also learn that Doris perhaps has addiction

0:17:47.520 --> 0:17:50.880
<v Speaker 3>issues of her own, as we will often see her

0:17:51.000 --> 0:17:56.600
<v Speaker 3>drinking alcohol, something that she denies. Some more time passes

0:17:56.720 --> 0:17:59.560
<v Speaker 3>and Suzanne feels ready to go back to work, but

0:17:59.600 --> 0:18:02.600
<v Speaker 3>there's an she with insurance. The production of the movie

0:18:02.600 --> 0:18:05.439
<v Speaker 3>she was cast in won't insure her because of her

0:18:05.520 --> 0:18:10.880
<v Speaker 3>drug use unless she stays with a responsible party who

0:18:10.880 --> 0:18:13.680
<v Speaker 3>can look after her such as her mother.

0:18:14.080 --> 0:18:16.160
<v Speaker 4>Well, she can't stay with her father. She's worse.

0:18:16.359 --> 0:18:18.480
<v Speaker 3>He's worse, is yeah?

0:18:19.400 --> 0:18:20.120
<v Speaker 2>Not bad?

0:18:20.240 --> 0:18:20.520
<v Speaker 4>Dear?

0:18:20.720 --> 0:18:23.479
<v Speaker 2>And who could that be a reference to? We'll never know.

0:18:23.800 --> 0:18:26.240
<v Speaker 3>We'll never know, certainly not Eddie Fisher.

0:18:27.119 --> 0:18:30.000
<v Speaker 2>No, I I like that. I wish that this didn't

0:18:30.000 --> 0:18:33.680
<v Speaker 2>get cut. Apparently there were scenes filmed with Jerry Orbach

0:18:33.880 --> 0:18:39.359
<v Speaker 2>playing her father. Whoa and awesome to see it. Jerry

0:18:39.480 --> 0:18:41.560
<v Speaker 2>Orbach doing Eddie Fisher would have rocked.

0:18:41.760 --> 0:18:43.639
<v Speaker 3>Wow. Lumier himself.

0:18:44.359 --> 0:18:46.520
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, this scene with the agent that is just so great.

0:18:46.560 --> 0:18:48.680
<v Speaker 4>The way they're, the way they speak over each other,

0:18:49.160 --> 0:18:52.640
<v Speaker 4>and like meryll Is finishing Shirley McLain's lines because she's

0:18:52.640 --> 0:18:55.840
<v Speaker 4>heard all of these anecdotes a million times before. Oh,

0:18:55.880 --> 0:18:57.480
<v Speaker 4>it's just it's perfect writing.

0:18:57.800 --> 0:19:02.400
<v Speaker 3>It's great. So it's suggested that Suzanne's stay with her mother.

0:19:02.680 --> 0:19:05.960
<v Speaker 3>She is very reluctant to do this, but she eventually

0:19:06.119 --> 0:19:11.439
<v Speaker 3>agrees and moves in with Doris. Suzanne returns to work

0:19:11.840 --> 0:19:15.439
<v Speaker 3>and on the movie set of this Like what seems

0:19:15.480 --> 0:19:19.160
<v Speaker 3>like a pretty bad movie and a low budget one,

0:19:20.200 --> 0:19:24.000
<v Speaker 3>she meets a producer played by Rob Reiner, who tells

0:19:24.000 --> 0:19:26.360
<v Speaker 3>her that she will have to do routine drug tests

0:19:27.040 --> 0:19:31.840
<v Speaker 3>or else again, the insurance won't cover her, and Suzanne

0:19:31.880 --> 0:19:38.600
<v Speaker 3>finds this humiliating. Then Doris throws Suzanne a welcome back

0:19:38.640 --> 0:19:40.840
<v Speaker 3>from rehab party.

0:19:41.280 --> 0:19:47.120
<v Speaker 2>You know that classical party is yep, but the opportunity

0:19:47.200 --> 0:19:52.080
<v Speaker 2>is she finds for attention is really a second to none.

0:19:51.960 --> 0:19:57.160
<v Speaker 3>Totally, because this is the scene where Doris is encouraging

0:19:57.960 --> 0:20:03.080
<v Speaker 3>Suzanne to sing for the guests, and Suzanne doesn't want to,

0:20:03.240 --> 0:20:07.560
<v Speaker 3>but she reluctantly does, and then people are like, well, Doris,

0:20:07.600 --> 0:20:10.439
<v Speaker 3>what if you sing too, and She's like, no, I

0:20:10.480 --> 0:20:13.640
<v Speaker 3>couldn't then burst into song d flat.

0:20:14.920 --> 0:20:17.679
<v Speaker 2>I think Izzy says in her video like it's the

0:20:17.920 --> 0:20:20.359
<v Speaker 2>Christien Wig character from a sene.

0:20:20.560 --> 0:20:23.320
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, don't make me sick, don't make me sing. It's

0:20:23.400 --> 0:20:24.560
<v Speaker 4>so so good.

0:20:24.800 --> 0:20:27.680
<v Speaker 2>And then she does an amazing rendition of I'm Still here?

0:20:28.280 --> 0:20:32.159
<v Speaker 2>Who is? I think the CHIRLEYE. McLain is incredible in

0:20:32.160 --> 0:20:34.880
<v Speaker 2>this part, but when I hear I'm Still here, I'm like, Wow.

0:20:34.920 --> 0:20:36.919
<v Speaker 2>The only person who I would have wanted more in

0:20:36.960 --> 0:20:42.440
<v Speaker 2>this part is Elaine Stritch. Elayne Stritch plays a bitch

0:20:42.560 --> 0:20:45.360
<v Speaker 2>mother unlike anyone on the face of the planet, as

0:20:45.400 --> 0:20:49.600
<v Speaker 2>evidenced in thirty rock. But right, Shirley McClain, does she

0:20:49.680 --> 0:20:51.600
<v Speaker 2>have the range? I don't know, and I don't care.

0:20:52.080 --> 0:20:53.160
<v Speaker 3>I felt that she did.

0:20:53.440 --> 0:20:57.360
<v Speaker 2>I love Elayne Stretch. She Hers and Carrie Fisher's one

0:20:57.400 --> 0:20:59.640
<v Speaker 2>woman shows were ones that I was both like obsessed

0:20:59.680 --> 0:21:01.120
<v Speaker 2>with high school in college.

0:21:01.880 --> 0:21:02.720
<v Speaker 4>I'll have to check it out.

0:21:02.920 --> 0:21:03.640
<v Speaker 3>Oh it's so good.

0:21:03.920 --> 0:21:06.520
<v Speaker 4>But yeah, this whole scene, the set piece is just

0:21:07.000 --> 0:21:10.560
<v Speaker 4>again just like perfect writing. The songs that they each sing.

0:21:11.280 --> 0:21:13.680
<v Speaker 4>It's kind of so annoyingly on the nose, but it

0:21:13.800 --> 0:21:17.240
<v Speaker 4>still works. Like Meryl's singing you don't know me to

0:21:17.480 --> 0:21:21.399
<v Speaker 4>her mother, and then her mother just completely upstaging her,

0:21:21.880 --> 0:21:24.040
<v Speaker 4>and like you watch Meryll perform and you're.

0:21:23.920 --> 0:21:26.520
<v Speaker 3>Like, oh, okay, she's talented.

0:21:26.760 --> 0:21:29.720
<v Speaker 4>Yeah she did a good job. And then yeah, Sirley

0:21:29.800 --> 0:21:34.080
<v Speaker 4>McLean's just like hold my cocktail, dear, let me show

0:21:34.080 --> 0:21:37.000
<v Speaker 4>you how she flashes the panty. Yeah, it's so good.

0:21:37.240 --> 0:21:40.960
<v Speaker 2>I love Meryl. I don't understand why we're like she

0:21:41.040 --> 0:21:47.080
<v Speaker 2>should be singing, But I love Mama Mia of course. Nonetheless, Nonetheless,

0:21:47.280 --> 0:21:50.399
<v Speaker 2>I like Meryl. I hope you had fun on your vacation, Degrease.

0:21:50.640 --> 0:21:53.320
<v Speaker 4>I think Meryl is such a good actress that she

0:21:53.480 --> 0:21:54.960
<v Speaker 4>can convince you she's a good singer.

0:21:55.280 --> 0:21:57.359
<v Speaker 3>Yes, I mean it works on me because I'm like,

0:21:57.560 --> 0:21:59.760
<v Speaker 3>is she not a good singer? I thought she won?

0:22:00.600 --> 0:22:03.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think. I don't know what it is, but

0:22:04.400 --> 0:22:07.560
<v Speaker 2>like Charlie McClain, I think, probably a comparable singer. But

0:22:07.760 --> 0:22:09.879
<v Speaker 2>like Buries her, it's just incredible.

0:22:10.119 --> 0:22:13.240
<v Speaker 3>I mean, well, that's because she's the greatest showman.

0:22:14.000 --> 0:22:14.720
<v Speaker 4>Yeah she is.

0:22:15.320 --> 0:22:15.639
<v Speaker 1>She is.

0:22:16.200 --> 0:22:19.680
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. So cut to Suzanne back on the set of

0:22:19.760 --> 0:22:24.200
<v Speaker 3>the movie. She's getting various notes about her performance, including

0:22:24.400 --> 0:22:28.879
<v Speaker 3>from a producer played by Oliver Platt. Then she hears

0:22:29.119 --> 0:22:36.000
<v Speaker 3>the director talking to wardrobe about her body and they're

0:22:36.200 --> 0:22:38.760
<v Speaker 3>talking about how she eats too much and she's gaining

0:22:38.880 --> 0:22:43.560
<v Speaker 3>weight and just you know, classic body shaming stuff. Then

0:22:43.640 --> 0:22:48.280
<v Speaker 3>she runs into the Dennis Quaid guy again, this is Jack.

0:22:49.600 --> 0:22:52.520
<v Speaker 3>She doesn't realize exactly who he is at first, and

0:22:52.640 --> 0:22:55.560
<v Speaker 3>then he reminds her that it was him who took

0:22:55.640 --> 0:22:55.960
<v Speaker 3>her to.

0:22:56.040 --> 0:22:59.320
<v Speaker 2>The hospital and does I pretty like, I think if

0:22:59.400 --> 0:23:02.080
<v Speaker 2>you were to have to show in two minutes or

0:23:02.160 --> 0:23:04.960
<v Speaker 2>less what is love bombing and what can it look like,

0:23:05.200 --> 0:23:07.399
<v Speaker 2>it would be this scene that is about to come

0:23:07.520 --> 0:23:07.920
<v Speaker 2>up with them.

0:23:08.240 --> 0:23:11.280
<v Speaker 3>Yes, yeah, we will talk all about their relationship because

0:23:11.560 --> 0:23:13.600
<v Speaker 3>it is troublesome.

0:23:14.240 --> 0:23:17.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he is just, uh, you know how some people

0:23:17.480 --> 0:23:20.800
<v Speaker 2>just have a way of laser focusing you at your lowest.

0:23:21.359 --> 0:23:22.439
<v Speaker 2>He's that person.

0:23:22.760 --> 0:23:28.400
<v Speaker 3>Yes, So what happens is they reconnect, they kiss a bit,

0:23:29.520 --> 0:23:32.719
<v Speaker 3>and then they arrange a date. He picks her up,

0:23:33.480 --> 0:23:37.560
<v Speaker 3>but Doris answers the door and she's very chummy with him,

0:23:37.640 --> 0:23:40.119
<v Speaker 3>and Susan has to pull her mother aside to be like,

0:23:40.760 --> 0:23:45.239
<v Speaker 3>stop overshadowing me, and stop making everyone like you more

0:23:45.280 --> 0:23:47.680
<v Speaker 3>than they'd like me and stuff like that.

0:23:48.080 --> 0:23:48.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:23:48.640 --> 0:23:52.479
<v Speaker 3>And then on their date at Jack's fancy Malibu house.

0:23:52.720 --> 0:23:57.080
<v Speaker 3>I think he's a movie producer, she tells him that

0:23:57.280 --> 0:24:00.680
<v Speaker 3>she's in recovery. She can't do casual li fair, she's

0:24:00.720 --> 0:24:02.440
<v Speaker 3>not really ready for romance.

0:24:02.320 --> 0:24:05.320
<v Speaker 2>And he's like, great, I've been looking for someone exactly

0:24:05.400 --> 0:24:08.560
<v Speaker 2>as vulnerable as you. This is awesome news.

0:24:09.040 --> 0:24:11.840
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and he professes his love for her, and she's like,

0:24:12.440 --> 0:24:14.639
<v Speaker 3>we barely know each other and he's like, no, no, no,

0:24:14.720 --> 0:24:17.240
<v Speaker 3>I've seen you in movies and I fell in love

0:24:17.280 --> 0:24:18.280
<v Speaker 3>with you on screen.

0:24:19.160 --> 0:24:21.760
<v Speaker 4>Is this where we get the line she was in

0:24:21.800 --> 0:24:23.920
<v Speaker 4>a movie called A Night Full of Shoes.

0:24:24.480 --> 0:24:29.439
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, somewhere around here, Oh Carrie Fisher jokes are

0:24:29.600 --> 0:24:30.760
<v Speaker 2>so specific.

0:24:30.960 --> 0:24:31.600
<v Speaker 1>I love it.

0:24:32.320 --> 0:24:34.280
<v Speaker 4>I loved you in A Night full of Shoes.

0:24:35.800 --> 0:24:39.600
<v Speaker 3>Incredible. She's in another movie, like fake movie called I

0:24:39.640 --> 0:24:42.359
<v Speaker 3>think public Domain, which does sound like it would be

0:24:42.440 --> 0:24:44.880
<v Speaker 3>the title of a movie. Yes, but A Night full

0:24:44.920 --> 0:24:48.320
<v Speaker 3>of Shoes is so good.

0:24:49.160 --> 0:24:51.359
<v Speaker 2>I love I love it even when I mean this

0:24:51.600 --> 0:24:54.160
<v Speaker 2>is very Carrie Fisher. But like, even when she's writing

0:24:54.240 --> 0:24:56.800
<v Speaker 2>her insert character, she still writes her to be kind

0:24:56.880 --> 0:25:01.359
<v Speaker 2>of a loser, like compared to her mother, which you know, Susan,

0:25:01.440 --> 0:25:03.760
<v Speaker 2>it doesn't seem like Suzanne Vale had the Princess Leah

0:25:03.840 --> 0:25:06.840
<v Speaker 2>moment and the way that Carrie Fisher dead, it seems

0:25:06.880 --> 0:25:09.520
<v Speaker 2>like she's been stuck on TV. I think that the

0:25:10.119 --> 0:25:12.960
<v Speaker 2>book gets more into like how stuck in TV? She

0:25:13.280 --> 0:25:19.200
<v Speaker 2>was sure anyway, Jack is love bombing her, and because

0:25:19.400 --> 0:25:24.720
<v Speaker 2>she's so vulnerable it works quote unquote. She seems flattered

0:25:25.440 --> 0:25:30.560
<v Speaker 2>and they sleep together. Suzanne returns home late that night

0:25:31.359 --> 0:25:34.480
<v Speaker 2>and Doris has been worried sick about her because she

0:25:34.760 --> 0:25:38.800
<v Speaker 2>didn't call and didn't show up, and Doris has been

0:25:38.880 --> 0:25:43.400
<v Speaker 2>drinking again, as she often does. Suzanne suggests that maybe

0:25:43.440 --> 0:25:46.280
<v Speaker 2>her mother has issues with addiction as well. But again

0:25:46.920 --> 0:25:49.960
<v Speaker 2>Doris refused to admit anything of the sort.

0:25:50.240 --> 0:25:53.560
<v Speaker 4>She drinks like an Irish person, yes, she says.

0:25:54.480 --> 0:25:58.159
<v Speaker 3>A bit later, back on the movie set, Suzanne finds

0:25:58.240 --> 0:26:01.600
<v Speaker 3>out that another woman in the cast, Evelyn played by

0:26:01.640 --> 0:26:06.280
<v Speaker 3>Annette Benning, also knows Jack, so Suzanne goes to talk

0:26:06.320 --> 0:26:09.159
<v Speaker 3>to her, and it turns out that Evelyn slept with

0:26:09.600 --> 0:26:12.639
<v Speaker 3>Jack recently, and in fact, on the same day that

0:26:12.800 --> 0:26:16.960
<v Speaker 3>Suzanne went to his house, and apparently he has a

0:26:17.040 --> 0:26:20.359
<v Speaker 3>reputation for seeing many women at once.

0:26:20.960 --> 0:26:23.440
<v Speaker 2>I don't think I've ever seen a net Benning in

0:26:23.640 --> 0:26:25.560
<v Speaker 2>a role like this before. I feel like I'm so

0:26:25.760 --> 0:26:28.560
<v Speaker 2>used to seeing her as like wife.

0:26:28.359 --> 0:26:30.920
<v Speaker 4>With Bob, but like I'm she's giving full.

0:26:32.520 --> 0:26:35.480
<v Speaker 2>It's really it took me a second to realize it

0:26:35.600 --> 0:26:35.840
<v Speaker 2>was her.

0:26:35.920 --> 0:26:35.960
<v Speaker 1>She.

0:26:36.119 --> 0:26:38.160
<v Speaker 2>I mean, she's so amazing that I was like, wow,

0:26:38.280 --> 0:26:41.680
<v Speaker 2>I've just never seen her in the like it's Hollywood dark,

0:26:41.840 --> 0:26:43.080
<v Speaker 2>like roll yeah.

0:26:43.320 --> 0:26:45.800
<v Speaker 4>Like the idea that she's stealing a scene from Meryl

0:26:45.840 --> 0:26:49.200
<v Speaker 4>Streep is like, I know, and this is her first movie.

0:26:49.680 --> 0:26:53.159
<v Speaker 4>Oh really, Oh my god, yeah yeah, yeah, she's so

0:26:53.760 --> 0:26:56.480
<v Speaker 4>so good. The way she just puts that twizzle stick

0:26:56.600 --> 0:26:59.080
<v Speaker 4>in her mouth as she's like talking about how she

0:26:59.240 --> 0:27:02.399
<v Speaker 4>loves to fuck. It's like, no notes, no notes in

0:27:02.440 --> 0:27:02.840
<v Speaker 4>that betting.

0:27:02.920 --> 0:27:06.720
<v Speaker 3>He's like, no big deal, it's the nineties, ye, Shara condoms.

0:27:06.680 --> 0:27:09.160
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, she's in it for the Dolphin Rush.

0:27:10.119 --> 0:27:10.920
<v Speaker 2>The Dolphin.

0:27:11.680 --> 0:27:11.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:27:12.040 --> 0:27:14.639
<v Speaker 3>I did not even realize that was a net Benning

0:27:14.920 --> 0:27:17.119
<v Speaker 3>until I had already watched the movie and then was

0:27:17.200 --> 0:27:20.080
<v Speaker 3>like scouring IMDb and I was like, wait a minute,

0:27:20.080 --> 0:27:21.760
<v Speaker 3>what do you mean Anette Benning's in this movie?

0:27:22.000 --> 0:27:22.200
<v Speaker 1>Who?

0:27:22.800 --> 0:27:26.119
<v Speaker 3>And then I realized it was her. She racks anyway,

0:27:26.200 --> 0:27:31.480
<v Speaker 3>So now Suzanne knows that Jack is sleeping with multiple people,

0:27:31.600 --> 0:27:34.680
<v Speaker 3>so she confronts him about it, and he acts like

0:27:34.760 --> 0:27:39.760
<v Speaker 3>a total dick. He admits to sexually assaulting her the

0:27:39.960 --> 0:27:43.119
<v Speaker 3>night she was passed out in his bed, and again,

0:27:43.160 --> 0:27:47.840
<v Speaker 3>we'll talk about this, yeah, but they break up. The

0:27:47.960 --> 0:27:53.359
<v Speaker 3>next day, Doris tells Suzanne that her business manager has disappeared,

0:27:53.480 --> 0:27:56.880
<v Speaker 3>along with all of his client's money. So Suzanne's money

0:27:57.119 --> 0:28:00.440
<v Speaker 3>is gone, and then she and Doris start talking about

0:28:00.600 --> 0:28:04.720
<v Speaker 3>Suzanne's career, her history with addiction, and it turns into

0:28:05.200 --> 0:28:11.560
<v Speaker 3>an argument. They're talking about blame, jealousy, resentment, Doris's parenting,

0:28:11.920 --> 0:28:18.160
<v Speaker 3>Doris's drinking, and how her skirt twirled up at Suzanne's

0:28:18.160 --> 0:28:21.920
<v Speaker 3>seventeenth birthday party and she wasn't wearing any underwear and

0:28:22.000 --> 0:28:26.560
<v Speaker 3>it's this iconic scene when they're on the stairs. Anyway,

0:28:27.000 --> 0:28:30.399
<v Speaker 3>Suzanne storms out of the house. She takes some pills

0:28:30.840 --> 0:28:34.840
<v Speaker 3>but then makes herself throw up. She shows up at

0:28:35.160 --> 0:28:40.320
<v Speaker 3>an adr slash like looping session with that director Lowell

0:28:41.080 --> 0:28:44.040
<v Speaker 3>for the movie she was doing at the beginning, and

0:28:44.120 --> 0:28:46.600
<v Speaker 3>then she and Lowell have a heart to heart where

0:28:46.720 --> 0:28:52.920
<v Speaker 3>he gives her advice about breaking this cycle of generational trauma.

0:28:53.480 --> 0:28:53.640
<v Speaker 2>Yes.

0:28:54.640 --> 0:28:57.720
<v Speaker 3>And then on Suzanne's way back home, she sees a

0:28:57.800 --> 0:29:00.520
<v Speaker 3>car accident and it turns out that her mother had

0:29:00.560 --> 0:29:04.800
<v Speaker 3>been drinking and driving and smashed into a tree and

0:29:04.960 --> 0:29:08.120
<v Speaker 3>she was arrested and then taken to the hospital with

0:29:08.240 --> 0:29:12.000
<v Speaker 3>a minor head injury. So Suzanne goes to the hospital.

0:29:13.080 --> 0:29:16.040
<v Speaker 3>Her grandmother is there, who we met previously at the

0:29:16.200 --> 0:29:20.240
<v Speaker 3>party scene, and she's freaking out. She's saying, I can't

0:29:20.280 --> 0:29:23.880
<v Speaker 3>believe I have a daughter and a granddaughter who are

0:29:23.920 --> 0:29:29.840
<v Speaker 3>both addicts and losers. So Suzanne is like, fuck you, Grandma,

0:29:29.960 --> 0:29:32.080
<v Speaker 3>get out of here. She kicks her out of the room,

0:29:33.080 --> 0:29:37.240
<v Speaker 3>and then Susanna and Doris start to reconcile and she

0:29:37.440 --> 0:29:40.719
<v Speaker 3>helps her mom do her makeup. It's a really sweet,

0:29:41.040 --> 0:29:48.200
<v Speaker 3>tender scene. Then Suzanne bumps into doctor Richard Dreyfus. He

0:29:48.400 --> 0:29:51.280
<v Speaker 3>had sent her flowers after he pumped her stomach, and

0:29:51.360 --> 0:29:55.120
<v Speaker 3>then he asks her on a date and she's like,

0:29:55.520 --> 0:29:58.840
<v Speaker 3>I'll go out with you, but I'm not ready to date.

0:29:59.360 --> 0:30:03.000
<v Speaker 3>And then he's like, no, worries, I'll wait. And then

0:30:03.000 --> 0:30:06.200
<v Speaker 3>we cut to Suzanne on the set of another movie

0:30:06.640 --> 0:30:10.360
<v Speaker 3>or music video, I'm not totally sure, but it's directed

0:30:10.360 --> 0:30:15.600
<v Speaker 3>by Lowell and she performs a song Heartbreak Hotel, and

0:30:15.880 --> 0:30:20.000
<v Speaker 3>her mom and some friends are on set to support

0:30:20.160 --> 0:30:22.440
<v Speaker 3>her the end.

0:30:23.840 --> 0:30:28.040
<v Speaker 2>And fun fact that song at the end was written

0:30:28.160 --> 0:30:31.600
<v Speaker 2>by shel Silverstein, famous children's poet.

0:30:32.080 --> 0:30:34.840
<v Speaker 3>Yes, oh, I thought that was Is that not an

0:30:34.880 --> 0:30:37.680
<v Speaker 3>Elvis song Heartbreak Hotel? Is that a different song?

0:30:38.000 --> 0:30:40.560
<v Speaker 4>Elvis has a song called Heartbreak Hotel, but it is

0:30:40.560 --> 0:30:41.560
<v Speaker 4>a different one different.

0:30:41.720 --> 0:30:44.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, so shout out Shell Silverstein.

0:30:45.640 --> 0:30:48.920
<v Speaker 4>And that song was OSCAR nominated as well as was

0:30:49.000 --> 0:30:50.000
<v Speaker 4>Merrill in this movie.

0:30:50.320 --> 0:30:52.040
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, incredible.

0:30:52.320 --> 0:30:54.880
<v Speaker 4>Do you know how many Oscar nominations Merril had by

0:30:54.920 --> 0:30:56.280
<v Speaker 4>this point in nineteen ninety.

0:30:56.560 --> 0:31:01.880
<v Speaker 2>Oh god seven? This was her ninth, ninth nine, and

0:31:02.040 --> 0:31:05.960
<v Speaker 2>she was like, what forty or something ridiculous?

0:31:06.160 --> 0:31:10.360
<v Speaker 3>Ridiculous goodness, Well, let's take a quick break and really

0:31:10.480 --> 0:31:11.000
<v Speaker 3>ponder that.

0:31:12.280 --> 0:31:13.280
<v Speaker 2>Let that sink in.

0:31:13.920 --> 0:31:28.400
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and we're back. Gosh, Okay, where do we start?

0:31:28.880 --> 0:31:30.920
<v Speaker 4>I guess maybe we can just talk about like the

0:31:31.000 --> 0:31:33.080
<v Speaker 4>diva worship of it all a bit. I mean, that's

0:31:33.080 --> 0:31:35.440
<v Speaker 4>definitely the appeal a lot of the appeal of this movie.

0:31:35.520 --> 0:31:39.800
<v Speaker 4>For me, it's the it's the seeing the Hollywood glamour,

0:31:39.880 --> 0:31:43.000
<v Speaker 4>seeing behind the scenes, seeing the struggles that make up

0:31:43.120 --> 0:31:47.200
<v Speaker 4>these gorgeous, fabulous creatures that we all worship, and it's

0:31:48.520 --> 0:31:51.440
<v Speaker 4>it just really scratches an itch, and even more so

0:31:51.600 --> 0:31:54.280
<v Speaker 4>because you know it's kind of true and kind of

0:31:54.360 --> 0:31:57.560
<v Speaker 4>not and it's presented in this humorous package. It gives

0:31:57.600 --> 0:32:01.800
<v Speaker 4>you permission to revel in it, which clearly Carrie Fisher

0:32:01.920 --> 0:32:03.720
<v Speaker 4>was doing when she was writing this, like she was

0:32:03.800 --> 0:32:06.640
<v Speaker 4>having so much fun kind of making fun of her

0:32:07.360 --> 0:32:10.640
<v Speaker 4>of the ridiculousness of also the trauma of her life.

0:32:11.000 --> 0:32:11.240
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:32:11.360 --> 0:32:13.840
<v Speaker 4>I don't know. I just think it's so it's so

0:32:14.120 --> 0:32:16.959
<v Speaker 4>fun to watch Shirley McLane just chew up the scenery

0:32:17.080 --> 0:32:22.080
<v Speaker 4>as this big character who yes, not a very good mother,

0:32:22.280 --> 0:32:26.120
<v Speaker 4>but like brings she brings so much heart and soul

0:32:26.200 --> 0:32:28.520
<v Speaker 4>into it, and like, you know, you can't escape the

0:32:28.560 --> 0:32:31.760
<v Speaker 4>comparison to something like Mommy Dearist, which is kind of

0:32:31.920 --> 0:32:36.840
<v Speaker 4>the same story but is so much right, yeah, so

0:32:37.120 --> 0:32:40.120
<v Speaker 4>much harder to watch and so much more tragic. It's

0:32:40.840 --> 0:32:42.440
<v Speaker 4>it can be fun to watch that movie in a

0:32:42.520 --> 0:32:45.080
<v Speaker 4>camp way because it's also over the top, but like

0:32:45.160 --> 0:32:49.960
<v Speaker 4>the subject matter is dark as fuck. Yeah, whereas this movie,

0:32:50.280 --> 0:32:53.680
<v Speaker 4>you know, everybody loves each other. They're just messed up people,

0:32:54.440 --> 0:32:59.080
<v Speaker 4>and that that dynamic between them, I think is so special. Like,

0:32:59.760 --> 0:33:01.120
<v Speaker 4>you know, we already talked about it a little bit,

0:33:01.120 --> 0:33:04.640
<v Speaker 4>but that scene where they are both doing their show

0:33:04.720 --> 0:33:08.600
<v Speaker 4>tunes and you can see if it was Mommy DearS,

0:33:09.160 --> 0:33:11.160
<v Speaker 4>you know, the daughter character would just be watching her

0:33:11.200 --> 0:33:13.680
<v Speaker 4>mom perform and she'd fucking hate her and it would

0:33:13.680 --> 0:33:16.400
<v Speaker 4>be like they were at war with each other. But

0:33:16.560 --> 0:33:19.520
<v Speaker 4>in this movie, like you watch Meryl go through this

0:33:19.840 --> 0:33:22.400
<v Speaker 4>entire journey of like I'm proud of my mother. She's

0:33:22.480 --> 0:33:24.680
<v Speaker 4>such an amazing star, and you can see her be

0:33:24.840 --> 0:33:26.920
<v Speaker 4>like a little girl who's like in awe of her

0:33:27.000 --> 0:33:30.040
<v Speaker 4>incredibly talented mother, and then she can then she's like,

0:33:30.280 --> 0:33:33.360
<v Speaker 4>oh that's making me shrink. Oh that's hard for me.

0:33:34.000 --> 0:33:36.920
<v Speaker 4>And it's like all of these this mix of emotions,

0:33:36.960 --> 0:33:41.560
<v Speaker 4>which is which just feels so real, and I think

0:33:41.600 --> 0:33:43.280
<v Speaker 4>I've just talked to my way around a couple of topics.

0:33:43.360 --> 0:33:46.520
<v Speaker 4>But it's yeah, I love I love this movie for

0:33:46.600 --> 0:33:46.880
<v Speaker 4>all of that.

0:33:48.280 --> 0:33:52.080
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, No, the admiration they have for each other, but

0:33:52.400 --> 0:33:59.520
<v Speaker 3>also the resentment for different reasons. Because Susanne resents her

0:33:59.680 --> 0:34:03.640
<v Speaker 3>mother or blames her for getting her addicted to drugs.

0:34:03.680 --> 0:34:05.400
<v Speaker 3>She's like, you fed me sleeping pills when I was

0:34:05.520 --> 0:34:08.920
<v Speaker 3>nine years old, resents her for always wanting to be

0:34:09.040 --> 0:34:12.120
<v Speaker 3>the center of attention, you know, things like that. And

0:34:12.280 --> 0:34:15.920
<v Speaker 3>then Doris seems to be harboring some resentment about the

0:34:15.960 --> 0:34:20.000
<v Speaker 3>fact that she's an aging actor who's a woman in

0:34:20.160 --> 0:34:25.440
<v Speaker 3>Hollywood and feels like her time has passed and her

0:34:25.680 --> 0:34:29.399
<v Speaker 3>daughter's up and coming, and you know, just all these things.

0:34:29.440 --> 0:34:32.600
<v Speaker 3>But then again, they admire each other, they think each

0:34:32.640 --> 0:34:35.919
<v Speaker 3>other is talented. It's just it does feel like such

0:34:35.960 --> 0:34:41.279
<v Speaker 3>an authentic portrayal of a mother daughter relationship. Obviously not

0:34:41.440 --> 0:34:45.160
<v Speaker 3>every mother daughter relationship, but sure there were aspects of

0:34:45.200 --> 0:34:47.040
<v Speaker 3>this that felt very familiar.

0:34:47.520 --> 0:34:51.319
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I really appreciate that, and I know that, like again,

0:34:51.400 --> 0:34:54.240
<v Speaker 2>everyone's my edge is going to vary with a story

0:34:54.360 --> 0:34:58.200
<v Speaker 2>like this because it's impossible not to project yourself onto

0:34:58.280 --> 0:35:00.600
<v Speaker 2>the characters. But like there's so many things that I

0:35:00.680 --> 0:35:04.080
<v Speaker 2>think Carrie Fisher is so uniquely good at. She is

0:35:04.280 --> 0:35:07.480
<v Speaker 2>very aware of like how directly this is going to

0:35:07.560 --> 0:35:11.560
<v Speaker 2>be compared to her life, even though she has remained

0:35:11.600 --> 0:35:14.920
<v Speaker 2>pretty firm that like this pulls from her life, but

0:35:15.120 --> 0:35:18.239
<v Speaker 2>is not a biography, you know, a biographical film, which

0:35:18.280 --> 0:35:20.640
<v Speaker 2>is part of why and this does always crack me up.

0:35:20.640 --> 0:35:23.279
<v Speaker 2>Debbie Reynolds was like, I'll do it. I'll play the part,

0:35:23.520 --> 0:35:26.840
<v Speaker 2>and which to me is like I don't know. The

0:35:26.920 --> 0:35:28.640
<v Speaker 2>better of how you look at it is like okay,

0:35:28.719 --> 0:35:30.960
<v Speaker 2>so it can't be that real. If Debbie Reynolds is

0:35:31.080 --> 0:35:32.920
<v Speaker 2>like I would love to do it, I could do it,

0:35:33.640 --> 0:35:35.040
<v Speaker 2>and Mike Nichols was gently like.

0:35:35.360 --> 0:35:38.879
<v Speaker 3>No, yeah, like you're not right for the part, which

0:35:39.719 --> 0:35:42.200
<v Speaker 3>it's not quite you, it's something else, it's someone else.

0:35:42.400 --> 0:35:45.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And it would be so distracting from I mean,

0:35:45.520 --> 0:35:47.920
<v Speaker 2>it's so so much of the stories potentially in that

0:35:48.239 --> 0:35:51.720
<v Speaker 2>interaction alone of like you know, this is Carrie's story.

0:35:51.880 --> 0:35:56.240
<v Speaker 2>Debeat but anyways, but the fact that you know everyone,

0:35:56.920 --> 0:35:59.520
<v Speaker 2>it seems like everyone involved in this production had ties

0:35:59.600 --> 0:36:04.600
<v Speaker 2>to this family and a lot of love for the family,

0:36:04.680 --> 0:36:08.960
<v Speaker 2>regardless of how much of the family actually appears on screen. Obviously,

0:36:09.080 --> 0:36:14.040
<v Speaker 2>Carrie Fisher's she's writing based on these dynamics. Potentially, Shirley

0:36:14.120 --> 0:36:17.080
<v Speaker 2>Maclain was a really close friend of Debbie Reynolds. Mike

0:36:17.160 --> 0:36:19.800
<v Speaker 2>Nichols and Carrie Fisher were close. Mike Nichols also directed

0:36:19.840 --> 0:36:23.799
<v Speaker 2>Elizabeth Taylor. Like there's just all of these like connections

0:36:23.880 --> 0:36:26.880
<v Speaker 2>that but through all of that, like it would be

0:36:27.040 --> 0:36:32.280
<v Speaker 2>so easy for Carrie Fisher's writing to be like navel

0:36:32.640 --> 0:36:40.759
<v Speaker 2>gazy bullshit, but she's so clear on processing feelings around privilege,

0:36:41.000 --> 0:36:44.920
<v Speaker 2>Like she does not let Suzanne get away with the

0:36:45.080 --> 0:36:48.799
<v Speaker 2>amount of privilege that she absolutely does have. We see

0:36:48.960 --> 0:36:51.760
<v Speaker 2>other people react to that privilege, and we see Suzanne

0:36:51.840 --> 0:36:57.040
<v Speaker 2>internalize and develop a deep shame around like understanding she

0:36:57.080 --> 0:37:01.080
<v Speaker 2>has privileged but still struggling. And it's just like it's

0:37:01.160 --> 0:37:05.360
<v Speaker 2>such a difficult needle to thread, I would imagine, especially

0:37:05.480 --> 0:37:08.800
<v Speaker 2>if that is like very similar to your background that

0:37:08.960 --> 0:37:12.000
<v Speaker 2>she's so good at. It's like amazing to watch in

0:37:12.080 --> 0:37:15.479
<v Speaker 2>the fact that she you know, with Shirley McClain's character,

0:37:15.719 --> 0:37:19.279
<v Speaker 2>Doris is able to portray that, you know, this is

0:37:19.360 --> 0:37:23.200
<v Speaker 2>a character who also clearly struggles with addiction, but the

0:37:23.320 --> 0:37:27.279
<v Speaker 2>struggles we don't even really know, like she's just sort

0:37:27.320 --> 0:37:32.439
<v Speaker 2>of refusing to confront it. And seeing Suzanne you sort

0:37:32.440 --> 0:37:34.640
<v Speaker 2>of have to contend with, like, is this someone I

0:37:34.680 --> 0:37:36.560
<v Speaker 2>can have in my life if this is the case?

0:37:36.600 --> 0:37:39.200
<v Speaker 2>Because in the end and it is like, you know,

0:37:39.400 --> 0:37:42.680
<v Speaker 2>maybe dismissive of an addiction, but I was laughing whatever

0:37:43.200 --> 0:37:46.040
<v Speaker 2>at the end where Shirley McLain is like giving the

0:37:46.120 --> 0:37:47.400
<v Speaker 2>interview to the press and you're like, what are you

0:37:47.400 --> 0:37:48.960
<v Speaker 2>gonna do next? And she's like, I'm gonna go back

0:37:48.960 --> 0:37:52.560
<v Speaker 2>to drinking. Thank you, thank you so much, and everyone's

0:37:52.600 --> 0:37:55.840
<v Speaker 2>like got it, got it, got it. But I just

0:37:56.080 --> 0:37:59.960
<v Speaker 2>I really love that whatever. I think it's safe to

0:38:00.239 --> 0:38:06.320
<v Speaker 2>say that Doris has narcissistic qualities and that Suzanne is

0:38:06.400 --> 0:38:09.520
<v Speaker 2>such a like, I think well written child of a narcissist,

0:38:10.280 --> 0:38:15.640
<v Speaker 2>where she is hyper aware of what her mother is

0:38:15.800 --> 0:38:18.640
<v Speaker 2>like and it clearly informs her own behavior and how

0:38:18.719 --> 0:38:22.040
<v Speaker 2>she talks to and perceives other people, and that she

0:38:22.560 --> 0:38:27.120
<v Speaker 2>also has a lot of empathy for her mom in

0:38:27.840 --> 0:38:30.200
<v Speaker 2>many moments where you would have to have a lot

0:38:30.239 --> 0:38:32.399
<v Speaker 2>of empathy to keep this woman in your life, first

0:38:32.440 --> 0:38:35.800
<v Speaker 2>of all, Like, but that she does seem to understand.

0:38:35.880 --> 0:38:39.040
<v Speaker 2>And I feel like we're given information in like broad

0:38:39.120 --> 0:38:42.360
<v Speaker 2>the broad characters, but like by seeing the grandparents and

0:38:42.480 --> 0:38:45.840
<v Speaker 2>seeing because that that also is very similar to Debbie

0:38:45.880 --> 0:38:49.160
<v Speaker 2>Reynolds's life where she grew up, you know, with absolutely

0:38:49.280 --> 0:38:53.080
<v Speaker 2>nothing and and then became this big star and is

0:38:53.160 --> 0:38:57.120
<v Speaker 2>always there's always going to be like tension and maybe

0:38:57.520 --> 0:39:02.360
<v Speaker 2>overdoing the opulence to escape your past quote unquote, but

0:39:02.520 --> 0:39:05.440
<v Speaker 2>that I don't know that Suzanne like understands this is

0:39:05.480 --> 0:39:08.000
<v Speaker 2>how my mother is. If I want her in my life,

0:39:08.640 --> 0:39:11.239
<v Speaker 2>I kind of have to accept it and create boundaries.

0:39:11.800 --> 0:39:14.759
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and I have to imagine I wish I had

0:39:14.840 --> 0:39:19.560
<v Speaker 3>paid closer attention to the scenes with Suzanne's grandmother because

0:39:19.600 --> 0:39:22.680
<v Speaker 3>I think she's only in two scenes. Yeah, but it

0:39:22.800 --> 0:39:28.080
<v Speaker 3>seems clear to me at least that Suzanne recognizes the

0:39:28.120 --> 0:39:31.799
<v Speaker 3>ways in which her grandmother affected her mother's life. Right,

0:39:32.200 --> 0:39:39.120
<v Speaker 3>And you know, again the cycle of dysfunction type parenting dysfunction.

0:39:39.920 --> 0:39:44.080
<v Speaker 3>You know, perhaps Doris got that from her mother and

0:39:44.400 --> 0:39:47.839
<v Speaker 3>is passing it down to Susanne. So it almost made

0:39:47.920 --> 0:39:52.040
<v Speaker 3>me want the grandmother character to be more prominent, just

0:39:52.160 --> 0:39:54.239
<v Speaker 3>to kind of drive that home a bit more.

0:39:54.520 --> 0:39:56.960
<v Speaker 2>Two generations of trauma simply was not enough.

0:39:58.200 --> 0:39:59.439
<v Speaker 3>We need the third more.

0:40:00.080 --> 0:40:02.680
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, I like it, even though the I think

0:40:02.719 --> 0:40:05.840
<v Speaker 2>definitely the grandparents are like a little cartoonier than the

0:40:05.920 --> 0:40:10.040
<v Speaker 2>other two generations. But I do think that, like, I

0:40:10.080 --> 0:40:12.120
<v Speaker 2>don't know, it's in a very carry Fisher way. And

0:40:12.239 --> 0:40:16.040
<v Speaker 2>I will excuse basically most of the things that people

0:40:16.120 --> 0:40:19.440
<v Speaker 2>don't like about her writing, but that even though you

0:40:19.560 --> 0:40:23.680
<v Speaker 2>have this sort of cartoonish presentation of people essentially from

0:40:23.680 --> 0:40:28.400
<v Speaker 2>the South, from low income background, you still get this

0:40:29.360 --> 0:40:31.359
<v Speaker 2>thing that like, not a lot of people are good

0:40:31.360 --> 0:40:35.440
<v Speaker 2>at writing, where it's like this grandmother, while dismissive and

0:40:35.640 --> 0:40:40.360
<v Speaker 2>unkind to her daughter and granddaughter, is also receiving constant

0:40:40.440 --> 0:40:43.640
<v Speaker 2>verbal abuse from her husband, who appears to be suffering

0:40:43.680 --> 0:40:46.399
<v Speaker 2>from mental illness. But it does seem like, I mean,

0:40:46.480 --> 0:40:50.160
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, I have memories of my grandparents having

0:40:50.239 --> 0:40:53.239
<v Speaker 2>a dynamic like that, and that when one of their

0:40:53.520 --> 0:40:57.560
<v Speaker 2>you know, mental capacities began to slip, the cruel behavior

0:40:57.640 --> 0:41:01.200
<v Speaker 2>that was displayed before escalates and it just you know,

0:41:01.840 --> 0:41:05.160
<v Speaker 2>she is both unkind to her daughter and granddaughter and

0:41:05.600 --> 0:41:08.879
<v Speaker 2>is literally being screamed at by her husband to shut

0:41:09.000 --> 0:41:12.480
<v Speaker 2>up every second of her life, and like, both of

0:41:12.520 --> 0:41:15.080
<v Speaker 2>these things have to be true, and seeing them both

0:41:15.120 --> 0:41:19.359
<v Speaker 2>at the same time helps you understand where Doris comes

0:41:19.400 --> 0:41:22.560
<v Speaker 2>from and therefore where Suzanne comes from. It's so good.

0:41:23.280 --> 0:41:27.200
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, it does occasionally verge on like quite hollywoody, I

0:41:27.280 --> 0:41:29.880
<v Speaker 4>guess where it's like everything does get a little bit

0:41:30.200 --> 0:41:32.800
<v Speaker 4>neatly wrapped up, and it's like you get given the

0:41:32.920 --> 0:41:35.239
<v Speaker 4>lesson and then she applies it and then everybody has

0:41:35.280 --> 0:41:39.000
<v Speaker 4>a reconciliation and everyone moves on and drug addiction solved,

0:41:39.160 --> 0:41:42.040
<v Speaker 4>and you know, there's a little bow on everything. But

0:41:42.280 --> 0:41:44.279
<v Speaker 4>it is also just really satisfying to watch, and that's

0:41:44.320 --> 0:41:47.279
<v Speaker 4>like what makes kind of a movie kind of worth watching.

0:41:47.520 --> 0:41:49.680
<v Speaker 4>We like the resolution, We like all of that, and

0:41:49.800 --> 0:41:51.560
<v Speaker 4>so yeah, the fact that you've got that Gene Hackman

0:41:51.640 --> 0:41:53.960
<v Speaker 4>speech where he's like, you know, your mother did it

0:41:54.080 --> 0:41:55.839
<v Speaker 4>to you, and her mother did her all the way

0:41:55.880 --> 0:41:57.200
<v Speaker 4>back to eve and at some point you have to

0:41:57.239 --> 0:42:00.600
<v Speaker 4>say it stops, and then the next scene Susanna puts

0:42:00.600 --> 0:42:05.160
<v Speaker 4>a stop to it. It's just like very satisfying. Also,

0:42:05.239 --> 0:42:06.960
<v Speaker 4>she puts stop to it while she's tying a turban

0:42:07.040 --> 0:42:11.120
<v Speaker 4>around her mother's head, which that looks like it's probably

0:42:11.160 --> 0:42:13.439
<v Speaker 4>hard to do, and she had to practice that a lot.

0:42:13.920 --> 0:42:16.200
<v Speaker 3>She has false eyelashes on her mother.

0:42:16.880 --> 0:42:19.920
<v Speaker 2>Not that well, to be honest, not that I was

0:42:20.640 --> 0:42:27.160
<v Speaker 2>like the blush was messy, too much blush. Yeah, but

0:42:27.280 --> 0:42:30.040
<v Speaker 2>there is also something I mean, it's like again, is

0:42:30.120 --> 0:42:34.560
<v Speaker 2>it toxic? Yes, But also it is so satisfying seeing

0:42:35.160 --> 0:42:38.680
<v Speaker 2>these two divas march out of the hospital room after

0:42:38.840 --> 0:42:42.120
<v Speaker 2>a dui and be like, here we are and we

0:42:42.360 --> 0:42:43.080
<v Speaker 2>look amazing.

0:42:43.280 --> 0:42:45.200
<v Speaker 4>You're like, come get me boys.

0:42:47.239 --> 0:42:50.800
<v Speaker 3>I also got the impression that they had only just

0:42:51.120 --> 0:42:56.439
<v Speaker 3>begun to reconcile and that their their relationship still needs

0:42:56.520 --> 0:43:01.400
<v Speaker 3>a lot of repair and yeah, fair therapy perhaps, but

0:43:01.600 --> 0:43:06.760
<v Speaker 3>that they had begun the journey of addressing their issues

0:43:06.880 --> 0:43:09.680
<v Speaker 3>with one another. So I think it would have been

0:43:09.800 --> 0:43:14.640
<v Speaker 3>like really too like sacarine and too Hollywood if they

0:43:14.760 --> 0:43:19.200
<v Speaker 3>were like, and we fixed everything and now we're the

0:43:19.480 --> 0:43:22.719
<v Speaker 3>best mother daughter pair you've ever seen. And I didn't

0:43:22.719 --> 0:43:25.319
<v Speaker 3>get that impression. It was more just like, they still

0:43:25.440 --> 0:43:30.160
<v Speaker 3>have some problems to work through, but they're in a

0:43:30.239 --> 0:43:31.799
<v Speaker 3>better place to start to do that now.

0:43:32.040 --> 0:43:34.560
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, they kind of get to have the fantasy conversation

0:43:34.719 --> 0:43:36.640
<v Speaker 4>that you wish you could have with your parents, which

0:43:36.719 --> 0:43:39.239
<v Speaker 4>is like, and now we're both going to explain our

0:43:39.360 --> 0:43:43.520
<v Speaker 4>central issue with each other and like that will be

0:43:43.880 --> 0:43:46.880
<v Speaker 4>so great, and like obviously that just never you know,

0:43:47.000 --> 0:43:48.719
<v Speaker 4>those are the things that kind of never get said.

0:43:49.040 --> 0:43:52.520
<v Speaker 4>But it is incredibly satisfying to watch these two characters

0:43:53.000 --> 0:43:54.160
<v Speaker 4>kind of get that moment.

0:43:54.239 --> 0:43:57.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and really see them like struggle too. Like it's

0:43:58.320 --> 0:44:01.880
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, like the fact that Zan is struggling

0:44:02.000 --> 0:44:05.400
<v Speaker 2>so much in these like early days of sobriety, and

0:44:06.680 --> 0:44:08.719
<v Speaker 2>in a way that feels like it's really funny but

0:44:08.840 --> 0:44:13.640
<v Speaker 2>also realistic. And I don't know, I like little patterns

0:44:13.640 --> 0:44:17.160
<v Speaker 2>I was noticing on my second watcher, like, Okay, both

0:44:17.239 --> 0:44:22.080
<v Speaker 2>her mother and grandmother have these husbands who are just there.

0:44:22.960 --> 0:44:27.080
<v Speaker 2>Arguably grandfather is there because maybe he's like experiencing some

0:44:27.239 --> 0:44:31.359
<v Speaker 2>form of dementia, but I'm I'm gonna headcan and say

0:44:31.400 --> 0:44:34.560
<v Speaker 2>he was always kind of just there. Sureley Mcleane's husband

0:44:34.680 --> 0:44:37.120
<v Speaker 2>is truly horizontal for the entire movie.

0:44:37.480 --> 0:44:41.760
<v Speaker 3>It's so good, barely says a word, barely is aware

0:44:41.760 --> 0:44:43.799
<v Speaker 3>of what's going on around him, and you.

0:44:44.040 --> 0:44:48.320
<v Speaker 2>See to some extent in that last scene, like Suzanne

0:44:49.320 --> 0:44:52.040
<v Speaker 2>begin to break that cycle where, of course in the

0:44:52.120 --> 0:44:55.399
<v Speaker 2>early days of her sobriety, of course, like getting love

0:44:55.480 --> 0:44:58.880
<v Speaker 2>bombed by a hot guy, it's tempting under any circumstances,

0:44:59.040 --> 0:45:02.200
<v Speaker 2>but like it makes sense to me why she is,

0:45:02.480 --> 0:45:05.080
<v Speaker 2>but why both she tries to attempts to set a

0:45:05.120 --> 0:45:09.360
<v Speaker 2>boundary that he love bombs his way through and that

0:45:09.480 --> 0:45:12.840
<v Speaker 2>she is in a vulnerable place that makes her receptive

0:45:13.160 --> 0:45:15.760
<v Speaker 2>to what he's saying even though he very much doesn't

0:45:15.800 --> 0:45:19.080
<v Speaker 2>mean it and in fact is an abuser to a

0:45:19.160 --> 0:45:22.400
<v Speaker 2>degree that she eventually learned. But I just I don't know,

0:45:22.800 --> 0:45:27.520
<v Speaker 2>Like she is both so funny and so specific and

0:45:27.719 --> 0:45:32.680
<v Speaker 2>also very vulnerable and I can't it's just like I

0:45:32.920 --> 0:45:35.399
<v Speaker 2>really love it. And then at the end that she's

0:45:35.400 --> 0:45:38.399
<v Speaker 2>able to draw the boundary of like not a good time,

0:45:38.840 --> 0:45:40.320
<v Speaker 2>Doctor Dreyfus or whatever.

0:45:41.440 --> 0:45:45.279
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I mean this character experience is basically every humiliation

0:45:45.440 --> 0:45:48.719
<v Speaker 4>a person can experience in like what the month that

0:45:48.800 --> 0:45:51.600
<v Speaker 4>she's been out of rehabits, the world is really laying

0:45:51.640 --> 0:45:54.759
<v Speaker 4>it on thick on her, and it's almost a little

0:45:54.760 --> 0:45:57.719
<v Speaker 4>bit sex in the city, Like the level of indignities

0:45:57.760 --> 0:46:01.080
<v Speaker 4>she has to suffer. But it's yeah, very fun to watch.

0:46:02.800 --> 0:46:05.640
<v Speaker 3>I mean, speaking of some of these characters, as far

0:46:05.719 --> 0:46:10.960
<v Speaker 3>as Doris's husband, Suzanne's grandfather, Jack, and we'll talk more

0:46:11.000 --> 0:46:15.400
<v Speaker 3>about the relationship with Jack specifically, but I noticed, especially

0:46:15.440 --> 0:46:18.640
<v Speaker 3>on my second watch of this movie that basically all

0:46:18.920 --> 0:46:23.760
<v Speaker 3>the men are despicable in some way, to varying degrees

0:46:24.200 --> 0:46:28.440
<v Speaker 3>of despicableness. But because I mean, like, I feel like

0:46:28.560 --> 0:46:33.520
<v Speaker 3>Jack is the extreme where he sexually assaults an unconscious person.

0:46:34.640 --> 0:46:37.879
<v Speaker 3>But then you've got various producers on the movie set

0:46:37.920 --> 0:46:44.719
<v Speaker 3>who are just condescending and shitty. There's the director who

0:46:45.200 --> 0:46:49.719
<v Speaker 3>is body shaming her, and he is talking with a

0:46:49.840 --> 0:46:54.040
<v Speaker 3>woman Dana Ivy, who I associate with the Adams family.

0:46:54.760 --> 0:46:59.520
<v Speaker 3>Oh okay, Yeah, they're talking about her body is if

0:47:00.160 --> 0:47:03.480
<v Speaker 3>it's a piece of meat, and again fat shaming her,

0:47:03.600 --> 0:47:08.759
<v Speaker 3>which is absurd because look at Meryl Streep in this movie.

0:47:09.680 --> 0:47:14.360
<v Speaker 3>Then you've got Lowell, who cares more about his movie

0:47:14.480 --> 0:47:18.320
<v Speaker 3>and his art than the well being of the human

0:47:18.560 --> 0:47:22.720
<v Speaker 3>beings in his movie. You've got Marty, the business manager

0:47:22.840 --> 0:47:27.480
<v Speaker 3>who steals Suzanne's money and disappears. Yeah, so, just like

0:47:27.600 --> 0:47:33.800
<v Speaker 3>every man is horrible and also kind of barely a character.

0:47:34.719 --> 0:47:36.920
<v Speaker 3>I love that they're just sort of like secondary or

0:47:37.040 --> 0:47:42.719
<v Speaker 3>tertiary characters, and that the main focus remains on Suzanne

0:47:42.840 --> 0:47:43.360
<v Speaker 3>and Doris.

0:47:43.880 --> 0:47:48.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I love stories about women. Well that's a whole sentence,

0:47:48.880 --> 0:47:56.160
<v Speaker 2>but like how they're working their way around men, which

0:47:56.239 --> 0:48:01.320
<v Speaker 2>is like so much of life working around men and

0:48:01.840 --> 0:48:03.920
<v Speaker 2>suffering as a result of the actions of men. But

0:48:04.080 --> 0:48:07.480
<v Speaker 2>this story does not need to be focused on them.

0:48:09.239 --> 0:48:12.360
<v Speaker 2>I really I appreciated. It felt very much like a

0:48:12.440 --> 0:48:14.759
<v Speaker 2>note we would have on most movies of this genre,

0:48:14.880 --> 0:48:17.120
<v Speaker 2>being like why didn't she have more friends? Why didn't

0:48:17.120 --> 0:48:18.319
<v Speaker 2>she have people to talk to you? And I think

0:48:18.360 --> 0:48:20.960
<v Speaker 2>that this movie does a great job with that, with

0:48:21.360 --> 0:48:26.840
<v Speaker 2>giving her a character that she becomes friends with in rehab,

0:48:27.040 --> 0:48:32.480
<v Speaker 2>a character played by Robin Bartlett Aretha Area.

0:48:32.680 --> 0:48:35.399
<v Speaker 3>I left out of the recap, but she is there.

0:48:35.560 --> 0:48:38.719
<v Speaker 2>I mean, she's sort of a friend character. Like I guess,

0:48:38.840 --> 0:48:41.080
<v Speaker 2>not much changes if she's not there, But I think

0:48:41.200 --> 0:48:44.120
<v Speaker 2>it is like crucial that she is there, if that

0:48:44.239 --> 0:48:47.319
<v Speaker 2>makes sense, because it's just it makes the world feel

0:48:47.400 --> 0:48:53.200
<v Speaker 2>more real. I automatically like a character a million times

0:48:53.280 --> 0:48:55.400
<v Speaker 2>more if she has a cool goth friend, you know,

0:48:55.640 --> 0:48:59.440
<v Speaker 2>like the world feels very even though it's like very elevated,

0:48:59.520 --> 0:49:04.680
<v Speaker 2>it feels lived in and I really appreciated that, and

0:49:04.760 --> 0:49:06.960
<v Speaker 2>that she keeps coming back. That's why I wish. I mean,

0:49:07.000 --> 0:49:09.680
<v Speaker 2>I guess it wouldn't make sense if C. H. Pounder's

0:49:09.760 --> 0:49:14.880
<v Speaker 2>character came back because why would your rehab doctor be around?

0:49:15.200 --> 0:49:17.000
<v Speaker 2>But I just wanted to see her again.

0:49:17.560 --> 0:49:17.759
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:49:18.160 --> 0:49:23.120
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, speaking of shitty men, I feel like even Richard Dreyfus,

0:49:23.320 --> 0:49:25.239
<v Speaker 4>like I think the movie thinks he's kind of a

0:49:25.320 --> 0:49:30.319
<v Speaker 4>good guy, but I don't. I don't think he comes

0:49:30.360 --> 0:49:32.279
<v Speaker 4>off very well and in this year.

0:49:34.640 --> 0:49:38.480
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, maybe it's not appropriate to ask a patient on

0:49:38.640 --> 0:49:39.160
<v Speaker 3>a date.

0:49:39.880 --> 0:49:43.040
<v Speaker 4>I think, not especially one that like its famous and

0:49:43.200 --> 0:49:45.160
<v Speaker 4>you have a crush on because you've seen in movies

0:49:46.000 --> 0:49:49.759
<v Speaker 4>in any situation. But it's just weird, it's it's stockersh

0:49:50.040 --> 0:49:50.560
<v Speaker 4>and it's.

0:49:50.760 --> 0:49:55.480
<v Speaker 2>Gross, especially the line I'll wait. You're like, no need,

0:49:55.840 --> 0:49:56.200
<v Speaker 2>no need?

0:49:58.280 --> 0:50:01.480
<v Speaker 3>Should we talk about Jack? I guess Dennis Quaid, we

0:50:01.640 --> 0:50:05.360
<v Speaker 3>have to, Yeah, we must. Yeah. I really struggled with

0:50:06.000 --> 0:50:12.160
<v Speaker 3>this series of beats for a few reasons. But so again,

0:50:12.480 --> 0:50:16.800
<v Speaker 3>trigger warning here for rape. But this storyline starts with

0:50:17.000 --> 0:50:19.800
<v Speaker 3>the scene where Jack wakes up. They're in bed together,

0:50:20.000 --> 0:50:23.400
<v Speaker 3>he realizes that she's unresponsive, so he takes her to

0:50:23.520 --> 0:50:26.760
<v Speaker 3>the er. He is shitty about that, as we already

0:50:27.080 --> 0:50:29.839
<v Speaker 3>mentioned in the recap, where he pretends he doesn't know her,

0:50:31.160 --> 0:50:33.680
<v Speaker 3>refuses to give his name to the hospital, and then

0:50:33.800 --> 0:50:36.680
<v Speaker 3>like peels out in his jeep wrangler.

0:50:36.960 --> 0:50:38.359
<v Speaker 4>Bad sign, Bad Sign.

0:50:40.120 --> 0:50:43.920
<v Speaker 3>They bump into each other later, and it was unclear

0:50:44.000 --> 0:50:48.120
<v Speaker 3>to me if Jack was kind of like following her

0:50:48.760 --> 0:50:52.120
<v Speaker 3>trying to bump into her, if it was just coincidental.

0:50:52.280 --> 0:50:55.759
<v Speaker 3>I didn't have a clear sense of that. But either way,

0:50:56.440 --> 0:51:01.719
<v Speaker 3>they reconnect and Jack tells her nothing happened that night,

0:51:02.200 --> 0:51:03.240
<v Speaker 3>we just talked.

0:51:03.760 --> 0:51:06.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And he does that very intentionally to sell her

0:51:07.200 --> 0:51:11.240
<v Speaker 2>on the idea that he is a not I wouldn't

0:51:11.239 --> 0:51:15.360
<v Speaker 2>even say respectful, but just that he is not a monster.

0:51:15.760 --> 0:51:18.040
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. He says, like, I have rules, Like you were

0:51:18.120 --> 0:51:21.600
<v Speaker 3>under the influence, I have rules about that. And it's like, okay, sir,

0:51:21.719 --> 0:51:23.160
<v Speaker 3>that is the bare minimum.

0:51:23.400 --> 0:51:27.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And it's like, okay, so you don't you don't

0:51:27.600 --> 0:51:29.080
<v Speaker 2>belong in jail, got it?

0:51:29.480 --> 0:51:29.520
<v Speaker 1>Like?

0:51:31.080 --> 0:51:34.239
<v Speaker 3>And then her response feels like a very like of

0:51:34.440 --> 0:51:38.279
<v Speaker 3>the time, nineteen nineties kind of thing, because she's like, well,

0:51:38.320 --> 0:51:42.320
<v Speaker 3>why didn't anything happen, was I that unappealing to you?

0:51:43.640 --> 0:51:46.759
<v Speaker 3>Which of the time, of the time, I'm giving Carrie

0:51:46.800 --> 0:51:52.279
<v Speaker 3>Fisher every pass. And then the following scene they're in

0:51:52.360 --> 0:51:56.200
<v Speaker 3>together is when he's love bombing her and she's you know,

0:51:56.280 --> 0:51:58.560
<v Speaker 3>she's saying like, no, I can't do this, I can't

0:51:58.600 --> 0:52:02.640
<v Speaker 3>do a casual relationship. I'm not ready for anything like this,

0:52:03.560 --> 0:52:07.200
<v Speaker 3>and he blows past all of that. He takes advantage

0:52:07.239 --> 0:52:12.320
<v Speaker 3>of her vulnerable state and professes his love, which is

0:52:13.400 --> 0:52:17.040
<v Speaker 3>like absolutely false and fake. Then she finds out he

0:52:17.520 --> 0:52:21.480
<v Speaker 3>is seeing multiple women and has not told her about them,

0:52:21.800 --> 0:52:23.839
<v Speaker 3>and she says like, I don't even care that you're

0:52:23.880 --> 0:52:28.200
<v Speaker 3>seeing other people. I care that you lied about that, right,

0:52:28.200 --> 0:52:31.800
<v Speaker 3>And then he starts making sweeping generalizations about women, basically

0:52:32.080 --> 0:52:35.080
<v Speaker 3>implying that women don't know what they want. Oh, you

0:52:35.160 --> 0:52:37.879
<v Speaker 3>say one thing, but you mean another thing, and your

0:52:37.920 --> 0:52:41.680
<v Speaker 3>feelings can't be trusted and classic shitty stuff like that.

0:52:42.239 --> 0:52:46.400
<v Speaker 3>And then he reveals that he raped her when she

0:52:46.600 --> 0:52:51.920
<v Speaker 3>was blacked out. Yeah, and the movie does not exactly

0:52:52.160 --> 0:52:56.400
<v Speaker 3>acknowledge it for the rape that it is.

0:52:57.480 --> 0:53:01.400
<v Speaker 2>Again of the time, Yeah, I think it's obviously like

0:53:01.680 --> 0:53:04.680
<v Speaker 2>it makes the character come off worse, but I don't

0:53:04.719 --> 0:53:09.600
<v Speaker 2>think worse to the degree that we consider it to

0:53:09.640 --> 0:53:12.560
<v Speaker 2>be worse, like and I don't, I mean it is.

0:53:12.719 --> 0:53:16.959
<v Speaker 2>I would be curious what kind of process a scene

0:53:17.040 --> 0:53:20.600
<v Speaker 2>like that being written in nineteen ninety goes through. It

0:53:20.840 --> 0:53:23.759
<v Speaker 2>feels weird to say, like, I appreciate that it's there,

0:53:24.120 --> 0:53:26.279
<v Speaker 2>but like it I don't. I don't know, like the

0:53:26.320 --> 0:53:28.600
<v Speaker 2>fact that the movie gives him no way out of

0:53:28.719 --> 0:53:33.160
<v Speaker 2>being an absolute monster but doesn't quite make it clear

0:53:33.440 --> 0:53:36.239
<v Speaker 2>the degree to which he is. But then it's like,

0:53:36.560 --> 0:53:38.959
<v Speaker 2>I don't know. I mean, carry Fisher is generally like really,

0:53:39.960 --> 0:53:42.880
<v Speaker 2>she's really good on these issues. She famously sent a

0:53:43.000 --> 0:53:46.719
<v Speaker 2>producer who attempted to assault her friend in a cab

0:53:47.560 --> 0:53:50.840
<v Speaker 2>a cow's tongue in a Tiffany box like.

0:53:51.480 --> 0:53:54.320
<v Speaker 4>She's that's incredible, She's amazing.

0:53:55.480 --> 0:53:59.920
<v Speaker 2>So I fully believe that, like Carrie Fisher understands how

0:54:00.120 --> 0:54:03.319
<v Speaker 2>monstros is. So it is interesting that it is presented

0:54:04.320 --> 0:54:08.200
<v Speaker 2>with this sort of like I don't know, like I

0:54:08.239 --> 0:54:09.320
<v Speaker 2>don't even know what the word is.

0:54:09.719 --> 0:54:12.080
<v Speaker 4>I think it's just that it's a comedy and they're

0:54:12.120 --> 0:54:14.400
<v Speaker 4>just trying to keep it kind of light, and they

0:54:14.600 --> 0:54:16.359
<v Speaker 4>kind of make him look as bad as you can

0:54:16.480 --> 0:54:19.440
<v Speaker 4>in a comedy like this. I agree with you, though,

0:54:20.080 --> 0:54:23.439
<v Speaker 4>he'd be nice to see him punished a little more,

0:54:23.760 --> 0:54:25.600
<v Speaker 4>you know, lose his job.

0:54:25.840 --> 0:54:29.719
<v Speaker 3>Say, yeah something. I also think it's probably again, just

0:54:29.760 --> 0:54:34.120
<v Speaker 3>a byproduct of the time where for a very long time,

0:54:35.200 --> 0:54:39.320
<v Speaker 3>I think people's impression of what rape was was like

0:54:39.800 --> 0:54:43.680
<v Speaker 3>snatching someone off the street, dragging them into an alley.

0:54:43.760 --> 0:54:46.880
<v Speaker 2>And like, yeah, almost always a stranger, a stranger.

0:54:47.320 --> 0:54:52.920
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and that our understanding of all of the circumstances

0:54:53.360 --> 0:54:57.479
<v Speaker 3>under which an act could be considered assault or rape,

0:54:58.280 --> 0:55:03.239
<v Speaker 3>we're just not fully recognized or understood at the time. Yeah,

0:55:03.880 --> 0:55:06.600
<v Speaker 3>So I think it's probably partly that.

0:55:07.280 --> 0:55:09.880
<v Speaker 4>And this plot point kind of comes up as well

0:55:09.920 --> 0:55:13.479
<v Speaker 4>in Working Girl, which is another Mike Nichols movie. Yeah,

0:55:13.680 --> 0:55:19.440
<v Speaker 4>and Melanie Griffiths has passed out, and Harrison Ford it's

0:55:19.480 --> 0:55:21.000
<v Speaker 4>been so long since since I've seen it.

0:55:21.440 --> 0:55:23.319
<v Speaker 2>You have we evenen covered it's been so long since

0:55:23.320 --> 0:55:23.800
<v Speaker 2>we covered it.

0:55:24.040 --> 0:55:26.440
<v Speaker 4>I think he gets like good guy points for not

0:55:27.320 --> 0:55:31.439
<v Speaker 4>having sex with her. Well she's unconscious again, bare minimum shit,

0:55:31.880 --> 0:55:35.040
<v Speaker 4>the bare minimum. Yeah right. Apparently Dennis Quaid in this

0:55:35.160 --> 0:55:37.560
<v Speaker 4>movie is kind of based on Harrison Ford though, which

0:55:37.640 --> 0:55:40.680
<v Speaker 4>is kind of fun. Yeah, that kind of tracks yep.

0:55:41.719 --> 0:55:46.040
<v Speaker 2>And it's so it's so tough because it's like you,

0:55:46.280 --> 0:55:50.440
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, Carrie Fisher has written extensively about or

0:55:50.600 --> 0:55:52.680
<v Speaker 2>that it was like published shortly before she died, about

0:55:53.160 --> 0:55:57.080
<v Speaker 2>the affair that she had with Harrison Ford, and it's

0:55:57.120 --> 0:55:59.400
<v Speaker 2>just I mean, this is just like a I feel like,

0:55:59.520 --> 0:56:04.560
<v Speaker 2>sometimes difficult conversation to have intergenerationally about like she was

0:56:04.640 --> 0:56:08.720
<v Speaker 2>a teenager, he was, you know, in his thirties and married,

0:56:08.840 --> 0:56:12.800
<v Speaker 2>and obviously the power dynamic was wildly different. But and

0:56:12.920 --> 0:56:15.840
<v Speaker 2>she both sees it that way and doesn't see it

0:56:15.960 --> 0:56:18.560
<v Speaker 2>that way and didn't want people to think ill of

0:56:18.680 --> 0:56:21.920
<v Speaker 2>him as a result. That it's just so like it

0:56:22.080 --> 0:56:26.080
<v Speaker 2>feels like a very difficult, kind of impossible conversation have,

0:56:26.239 --> 0:56:28.160
<v Speaker 2>especially when it's like, well, you can't tell her she's

0:56:28.400 --> 0:56:33.560
<v Speaker 2>wrong for how she perceives her own experiences. But I

0:56:33.680 --> 0:56:38.200
<v Speaker 2>think that a woman of a younger generation would feel

0:56:38.400 --> 0:56:39.240
<v Speaker 2>quite different.

0:56:39.600 --> 0:56:43.080
<v Speaker 3>I don't know, sure, Yeah, it's complicated, it is.

0:56:44.280 --> 0:56:46.440
<v Speaker 4>I kind of just want to shout out, like the

0:56:46.719 --> 0:56:49.920
<v Speaker 4>beautiful world that is created here, the Hollywood of it,

0:56:50.080 --> 0:56:54.120
<v Speaker 4>all the set pieces. I think it's just so fun.

0:56:54.880 --> 0:56:56.920
<v Speaker 4>The first thing I can think of that happens is

0:56:57.840 --> 0:57:00.480
<v Speaker 4>when we see Suzanne Merrill on the set of her

0:57:00.520 --> 0:57:03.279
<v Speaker 4>new movie and she's getting tied to a cactus and

0:57:03.840 --> 0:57:07.759
<v Speaker 4>she's in the desert and she's getting tied to this

0:57:07.880 --> 0:57:09.920
<v Speaker 4>cactus and then someone just opens a door in the

0:57:10.040 --> 0:57:15.399
<v Speaker 4>back of the desert and sets. It was so good,

0:57:15.480 --> 0:57:17.800
<v Speaker 4>and there's moments like that throughout which are just like,

0:57:18.600 --> 0:57:21.200
<v Speaker 4>I don't know, it's movie, it's movie magic. It's so fun.

0:57:21.320 --> 0:57:24.160
<v Speaker 4>Like she's talking to Dennis Quaide at one point and

0:57:24.240 --> 0:57:25.880
<v Speaker 4>then the house that he's standing in front of just

0:57:26.000 --> 0:57:29.760
<v Speaker 4>drives away. The scene where she's chatting to an atte

0:57:29.840 --> 0:57:32.280
<v Speaker 4>Benning like they're walking through a lot and they're suddenly

0:57:32.360 --> 0:57:34.480
<v Speaker 4>in a New York, snowy New York street, and then

0:57:34.480 --> 0:57:36.480
<v Speaker 4>they're back at the food truck and there's Freddy Krueger

0:57:36.560 --> 0:57:39.640
<v Speaker 4>in the line behind them. For the I didn't even

0:57:39.680 --> 0:57:44.120
<v Speaker 4>notice that. Yeah, for Craft Services, it's the bit where

0:57:44.160 --> 0:57:47.000
<v Speaker 4>she's hanging on the window but it's actually horizontal. Like

0:57:47.520 --> 0:57:50.960
<v Speaker 4>it's really really great, and it's just these fun little

0:57:51.040 --> 0:57:55.920
<v Speaker 4>visual gags that like they're just so smart and yeah,

0:57:55.960 --> 0:57:58.520
<v Speaker 4>it's great. It's great little storytelling, and it constantly kind

0:57:58.560 --> 0:58:01.360
<v Speaker 4>of highlights the absurdity of this world that she's in,

0:58:01.960 --> 0:58:04.400
<v Speaker 4>this industry, that she's in, the fact that she has

0:58:04.440 --> 0:58:07.040
<v Speaker 4>this confrontation with Dennis Quid dressed as a cop.

0:58:07.320 --> 0:58:12.240
<v Speaker 3>Right the complete with lengths in her like a pop gun.

0:58:13.320 --> 0:58:16.880
<v Speaker 4>Which we've learned since don't don't, don't do it's very

0:58:16.960 --> 0:58:18.520
<v Speaker 4>dangerous unless it's Dennis Quaid.

0:58:18.600 --> 0:58:25.320
<v Speaker 2>Maybe take your chances. Yeah, this was like a slightly

0:58:26.040 --> 0:58:29.840
<v Speaker 2>less like prominent theme, but one that I appreciated and

0:58:30.000 --> 0:58:34.760
<v Speaker 2>one that definitely comes up throughout Carrie Fisher's life is

0:58:35.000 --> 0:58:39.400
<v Speaker 2>how like the entertainment industry deals quote unquote deals with

0:58:40.200 --> 0:58:45.480
<v Speaker 2>and punishes people with addiction issues, where I think like

0:58:45.760 --> 0:58:49.440
<v Speaker 2>making the point that literally on a production actors are

0:58:49.840 --> 0:58:55.200
<v Speaker 2>insured like they are not people, which is to I mean,

0:58:55.240 --> 0:58:58.360
<v Speaker 2>I guess, you know, prevent you know, harm potentially to

0:58:58.560 --> 0:59:01.360
<v Speaker 2>others as well, But but it also is like a

0:59:01.720 --> 0:59:07.200
<v Speaker 2>fundamentally capitalist decision in a way that is acknowledged throughout

0:59:07.240 --> 0:59:10.400
<v Speaker 2>the movie in different moments. And also just how you

0:59:10.480 --> 0:59:16.040
<v Speaker 2>know she's she's punished for. She's not punished for having

0:59:16.080 --> 0:59:19.960
<v Speaker 2>addiction issues, She's punished for getting caught having addiction issues,

0:59:20.040 --> 0:59:24.520
<v Speaker 2>which feels very telling, like everyone is an open secret

0:59:24.600 --> 0:59:28.080
<v Speaker 2>on this set that she's struggling with addiction and is

0:59:28.200 --> 0:59:30.960
<v Speaker 2>doing drugs in her trailer, and I think her dealer

0:59:31.040 --> 0:59:33.400
<v Speaker 2>is her body double, which is kind of funny. But

0:59:33.560 --> 0:59:38.240
<v Speaker 2>it's only when she is publicly humiliated and almost dies

0:59:38.720 --> 0:59:42.040
<v Speaker 2>that the consequence comes and that her life is like

0:59:42.160 --> 0:59:46.240
<v Speaker 2>sort of irreversibly changed. And that is that's like not

0:59:46.920 --> 0:59:50.760
<v Speaker 2>limited to entertainment, but I think is like really smartly

0:59:50.840 --> 0:59:55.480
<v Speaker 2>said and how she's treated and spoken to by mostly

0:59:55.800 --> 0:59:58.760
<v Speaker 2>men who are directing or in charge of her of

0:59:58.960 --> 1:00:03.040
<v Speaker 2>like she's given a hand basically, which I don't know,

1:00:03.240 --> 1:00:04.920
<v Speaker 2>like you feel whatever way you want about it. He

1:00:04.960 --> 1:00:07.840
<v Speaker 2>seems like a decent guy. But the idea that like

1:00:08.520 --> 1:00:11.520
<v Speaker 2>I just wonder, at what point is it like she's

1:00:12.160 --> 1:00:14.440
<v Speaker 2>they need her to work, Like a lot of these

1:00:14.560 --> 1:00:17.080
<v Speaker 2>like structures that are put in place seem like so

1:00:17.240 --> 1:00:21.840
<v Speaker 2>that she can continue to work and create stuff to

1:00:21.960 --> 1:00:26.439
<v Speaker 2>be consumed. And Suzanne does say repeatedly like she wants

1:00:26.520 --> 1:00:28.280
<v Speaker 2>to be at work, she wants to be distracted, she

1:00:28.400 --> 1:00:31.120
<v Speaker 2>wants to be doing things. But it's just I don't know,

1:00:31.200 --> 1:00:33.080
<v Speaker 2>I think it does a good job without like bonking

1:00:33.120 --> 1:00:35.720
<v Speaker 2>you over the head of about it. What a system

1:00:36.320 --> 1:00:38.760
<v Speaker 2>that she's trapped in, and it makes sense that Suzanne

1:00:38.760 --> 1:00:41.880
<v Speaker 2>wouldn't be super pushed back about it because it's all

1:00:41.960 --> 1:00:44.080
<v Speaker 2>she knows. It's what she grew up around, is her

1:00:44.400 --> 1:00:48.680
<v Speaker 2>mother being a functional addict working in entertainment. So it

1:00:48.960 --> 1:00:51.440
<v Speaker 2>just like it. I don't know, I appreciated that.

1:00:51.720 --> 1:00:54.280
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, it's very good at handling the idea that she's

1:00:54.360 --> 1:00:58.040
<v Speaker 4>got a lot of power but also kind of none.

1:00:58.000 --> 1:01:02.440
<v Speaker 3>But also still treated horror on set and exploited for

1:01:02.600 --> 1:01:06.080
<v Speaker 3>her labor. I think it's Doris who points out at

1:01:06.160 --> 1:01:11.320
<v Speaker 3>some point how badly actors are treated and how actresses

1:01:11.680 --> 1:01:13.600
<v Speaker 3>have it even worse. And then she tells a story

1:01:13.600 --> 1:01:16.800
<v Speaker 3>about how she had a phone meeting. I think it

1:01:16.920 --> 1:01:19.240
<v Speaker 3>was a phone meeting with an executive.

1:01:19.720 --> 1:01:22.680
<v Speaker 4>It was a what I think it was. I think

1:01:22.720 --> 1:01:23.400
<v Speaker 4>it was in person.

1:01:23.920 --> 1:01:26.040
<v Speaker 3>Well she says that he was on the toilet the

1:01:26.080 --> 1:01:26.600
<v Speaker 3>whole time.

1:01:27.080 --> 1:01:30.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, I mean, because that's a a that was

1:01:30.160 --> 1:01:32.760
<v Speaker 2>a Louis v. Meher thing, right, Yeah, yeah, I feel

1:01:32.760 --> 1:01:33.760
<v Speaker 2>like that would have been in person.

1:01:34.600 --> 1:01:36.760
<v Speaker 3>So she just in the bathroom with him, I don't

1:01:37.360 --> 1:01:40.960
<v Speaker 3>I mean, I mean, either way, it's it's horrible. Yeah,

1:01:41.280 --> 1:01:45.919
<v Speaker 3>but yeah, you see the ways in which Suzanne is mistreated,

1:01:46.080 --> 1:01:50.680
<v Speaker 3>be rated, humiliated on set, and yeah, I feel like

1:01:51.360 --> 1:01:54.760
<v Speaker 3>the general public has this idea that, oh, if you're

1:01:55.160 --> 1:01:58.920
<v Speaker 3>in movies, people are laying out the red carpet for you.

1:01:59.280 --> 1:02:03.640
<v Speaker 3>They you you're treated like royalty, And maybe some actors are,

1:02:03.840 --> 1:02:07.600
<v Speaker 3>depending on the amount of like box office draw they have,

1:02:08.480 --> 1:02:11.920
<v Speaker 3>but even then, like, there are so many people on

1:02:12.080 --> 1:02:16.760
<v Speaker 3>a set with more power than an actor that often

1:02:17.160 --> 1:02:20.840
<v Speaker 3>abused that power, and we've seen, we've heard so many

1:02:20.920 --> 1:02:21.920
<v Speaker 3>stories of that.

1:02:22.400 --> 1:02:26.640
<v Speaker 2>But I mean, I also crystill. You mentioned this earlier

1:02:26.840 --> 1:02:28.959
<v Speaker 2>and I was thinking about it as well, But I'm

1:02:29.000 --> 1:02:31.840
<v Speaker 2>so curious what you both think because we just covered

1:02:31.880 --> 1:02:36.040
<v Speaker 2>Mommy Dearist on the podcast and the louis Villemare overt

1:02:36.160 --> 1:02:39.680
<v Speaker 2>reference in There's I mean, there's so many similarities in

1:02:39.840 --> 1:02:44.400
<v Speaker 2>these movies, but obviously their approach couldn't be more different.

1:02:45.040 --> 1:02:47.880
<v Speaker 2>I think at least part of that is because you know,

1:02:48.040 --> 1:02:50.360
<v Speaker 2>Carrie Fisher has explicitly said and so we have to

1:02:50.400 --> 1:02:52.080
<v Speaker 2>respect that she said this is not her one to

1:02:52.160 --> 1:02:58.920
<v Speaker 2>one experience, but that she Carrie Fisher has narrative control

1:02:59.040 --> 1:03:02.400
<v Speaker 2>to some extent over the story. Where As we talked

1:03:02.400 --> 1:03:05.080
<v Speaker 2>about in the Mommy Dearis episode, which you can just

1:03:05.160 --> 1:03:11.080
<v Speaker 2>go listen to it's with be kind rewind but deals

1:03:11.120 --> 1:03:15.680
<v Speaker 2>with a very similar in description character is like a

1:03:15.920 --> 1:03:20.240
<v Speaker 2>famous actress such as let's say not Debbie Reynolds or

1:03:20.520 --> 1:03:24.840
<v Speaker 2>overtly Joan Crawford, down to the example of Louis B.

1:03:24.920 --> 1:03:28.600
<v Speaker 2>Mayer being abusive towards them when they were young actors

1:03:29.440 --> 1:03:35.320
<v Speaker 2>and how they parent daughters specifically, like it's wild how

1:03:35.440 --> 1:03:40.320
<v Speaker 2>similar it is, but that this story I think does

1:03:40.360 --> 1:03:44.720
<v Speaker 2>a lot better of a job of contextualizing how that

1:03:45.000 --> 1:03:47.880
<v Speaker 2>character got to the place because and maybe to the

1:03:47.920 --> 1:03:50.880
<v Speaker 2>point where I could definitely see the argument that Doris's

1:03:50.960 --> 1:03:55.160
<v Speaker 2>abusive behavior is excused more than some people would like,

1:03:55.240 --> 1:03:58.720
<v Speaker 2>I mean, her admitting that she did give her child

1:03:59.040 --> 1:04:02.400
<v Speaker 2>sleeping pills to go to sleep. Do I believe that

1:04:02.560 --> 1:04:06.080
<v Speaker 2>Doris believes this was okay because it was over the counter, Sure,

1:04:07.080 --> 1:04:10.680
<v Speaker 2>But I don't know. It's these movies came out, like

1:04:10.840 --> 1:04:14.280
<v Speaker 2>I think, about ten years apart, and like I had

1:04:14.360 --> 1:04:16.840
<v Speaker 2>to have my attention drawn to how similar the premises

1:04:16.880 --> 1:04:20.480
<v Speaker 2>are because it's treated so differently where I.

1:04:20.520 --> 1:04:24.840
<v Speaker 3>Mean, tone is so vastly different between the two movies.

1:04:24.840 --> 1:04:28.600
<v Speaker 2>And there's no villain in Postcards from the Edge if

1:04:28.640 --> 1:04:32.200
<v Speaker 2>anything like a villain would be like a cycle or

1:04:32.280 --> 1:04:35.400
<v Speaker 2>a system, it wouldn't be one specific person, where obviously

1:04:36.360 --> 1:04:38.680
<v Speaker 2>Mammy dearis Joan Crawford is the devil incarnate.

1:04:39.920 --> 1:04:42.120
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I think it's partially just that Mommy Dearus is

1:04:42.400 --> 1:04:47.160
<v Speaker 4>kind of a much worse film in many ways. It's like,

1:04:48.000 --> 1:04:50.400
<v Speaker 4>you know, nothing is particularly well written. I guess by

1:04:50.480 --> 1:04:53.880
<v Speaker 4>the end of the movie in Mommy Dearris, they are

1:04:54.040 --> 1:04:57.080
<v Speaker 4>trying to humanize her a bit, but it's just you've

1:04:57.160 --> 1:05:01.640
<v Speaker 4>had such incredible, over the top camp by that point

1:05:01.680 --> 1:05:04.960
<v Speaker 4>that it's like you kind of can't go there with

1:05:05.040 --> 1:05:08.680
<v Speaker 4>that movie anymore, because you know, you've seen such extremes

1:05:08.720 --> 1:05:11.480
<v Speaker 4>by that point, you've seen too much. Yeah, exactly. Whereas

1:05:11.760 --> 1:05:15.600
<v Speaker 4>whereas in Postcards, you know, there's always nuance with these characters,

1:05:15.640 --> 1:05:19.480
<v Speaker 4>and there's always push and pull and love and resentment,

1:05:20.200 --> 1:05:25.880
<v Speaker 4>and yeah, it's just it's not a screaming, hysterical portrayal

1:05:26.000 --> 1:05:30.240
<v Speaker 4>of anything. It's nuanced and funny and feels real.

1:05:31.360 --> 1:05:33.720
<v Speaker 2>Especially when you think about how Carrie Fisher and her

1:05:33.800 --> 1:05:38.160
<v Speaker 2>mother did very much want to, you know, make their

1:05:38.280 --> 1:05:42.720
<v Speaker 2>relationship work, and what a deep love they shared, even

1:05:42.840 --> 1:05:47.520
<v Speaker 2>though oh god, if no one has recently watched the

1:05:47.840 --> 1:05:51.160
<v Speaker 2>Bright Lights documentary with the two of them sort of

1:05:51.280 --> 1:05:54.960
<v Speaker 2>Beverly Hills, Great Gardening. It's like filmed towards the end

1:05:55.040 --> 1:05:57.480
<v Speaker 2>of both of their lives. It came out in twenty sixteen,

1:05:58.320 --> 1:06:00.800
<v Speaker 2>but it's so good. It's yeah, it's Debbie Reynolds and

1:06:00.840 --> 1:06:04.320
<v Speaker 2>Carrie Fisher. They were like neighbors until the time of

1:06:04.360 --> 1:06:08.040
<v Speaker 2>their death, and it's just them loving each other and

1:06:08.200 --> 1:06:09.400
<v Speaker 2>being very dysfunctional.

1:06:09.680 --> 1:06:14.320
<v Speaker 4>All right, they died. They died one day apart, right, It's.

1:06:15.560 --> 1:06:18.280
<v Speaker 2>It makes me cry thinking about it, but yeah, I

1:06:18.360 --> 1:06:21.120
<v Speaker 2>mean and also the just to close that Mammy Deiras loop,

1:06:21.160 --> 1:06:22.960
<v Speaker 2>because I know we talked about this in the episode

1:06:23.400 --> 1:06:27.520
<v Speaker 2>that Christina Crawford, who is you know, everyone involved in

1:06:27.720 --> 1:06:30.040
<v Speaker 2>Mommy Darras is a polarizing figure in their own right,

1:06:30.800 --> 1:06:33.560
<v Speaker 2>but that Christina Crawford kind of disowned that movie when

1:06:33.600 --> 1:06:36.440
<v Speaker 2>it first came out because she had no authorial control

1:06:37.040 --> 1:06:42.680
<v Speaker 2>in how her mother was presented in this big budget movie.

1:06:43.360 --> 1:06:46.840
<v Speaker 2>Where I think that's like kind of Carrie Fisher's ultimate

1:06:46.920 --> 1:06:49.720
<v Speaker 2>strength in her you know, both her position, but also

1:06:49.920 --> 1:06:53.760
<v Speaker 2>like without her ability as a writer, this same premise,

1:06:54.080 --> 1:06:58.840
<v Speaker 2>we know could have been taken to a pretty horrible extreme,

1:06:59.680 --> 1:07:02.240
<v Speaker 2>but I don't know as a testament to her.

1:07:02.840 --> 1:07:07.920
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I know, and she is a big proponent of

1:07:08.040 --> 1:07:13.440
<v Speaker 3>the concept of tragedy plus time equals comedy and her

1:07:13.600 --> 1:07:19.560
<v Speaker 3>comedic approach to so much of her writing, and yeah,

1:07:19.640 --> 1:07:24.000
<v Speaker 3>her just sort of like self deprecating approach to her work.

1:07:24.440 --> 1:07:26.400
<v Speaker 3>And we already talked about this a little bit, but

1:07:26.880 --> 1:07:31.200
<v Speaker 3>I just really appreciate the ability to take a generally

1:07:31.320 --> 1:07:36.160
<v Speaker 3>serious topic and apply a comedic slant or comedic perspective

1:07:36.280 --> 1:07:38.960
<v Speaker 3>to it in a way that I think is still

1:07:39.240 --> 1:07:43.480
<v Speaker 3>tasteful and not you know, like making light of something

1:07:43.560 --> 1:07:47.680
<v Speaker 3>that should be taken seriously, but rather finding humor in

1:07:47.760 --> 1:07:52.000
<v Speaker 3>a situation, or maybe even coping with something using humor,

1:07:52.520 --> 1:07:55.800
<v Speaker 3>because as we said earlier, so much media about addiction,

1:07:56.040 --> 1:08:00.680
<v Speaker 3>for example, is very tonally serious. If not try magity porn.

1:08:01.400 --> 1:08:04.120
<v Speaker 3>And of course I understand approaching a serious topic with

1:08:04.320 --> 1:08:08.240
<v Speaker 3>a serious tone, but there's also room for stories about

1:08:08.320 --> 1:08:12.439
<v Speaker 3>something serious told with a more comedic tone, and that's

1:08:12.480 --> 1:08:16.719
<v Speaker 3>how I approach writing that type of thing. And again,

1:08:16.920 --> 1:08:21.200
<v Speaker 3>Carrie Fisher's ability to do that with nuance and grace

1:08:21.840 --> 1:08:25.439
<v Speaker 3>while still being funny, I think is really well done.

1:08:25.920 --> 1:08:28.320
<v Speaker 4>Yeah. It speaks to the way she was in her

1:08:28.680 --> 1:08:32.640
<v Speaker 4>personal life as well, and how she never let her

1:08:32.800 --> 1:08:36.960
<v Speaker 4>own struggles with addiction like be a shame for her

1:08:37.280 --> 1:08:40.080
<v Speaker 4>or I'm sure she did privately, but she owned it

1:08:40.200 --> 1:08:43.640
<v Speaker 4>so publicly that I think was very important for a

1:08:43.680 --> 1:08:46.240
<v Speaker 4>lot of people. And she, you know, she talked about

1:08:46.479 --> 1:08:48.920
<v Speaker 4>I was watching interviews she gave around this time talking

1:08:48.960 --> 1:08:51.040
<v Speaker 4>about this movie, and she just talks about it all

1:08:51.120 --> 1:08:54.280
<v Speaker 4>so matter of factly. And same with Richard Dreyfus. This

1:08:54.360 --> 1:08:56.120
<v Speaker 4>movie started as like it was going to be a

1:08:56.240 --> 1:08:57.960
<v Speaker 4>vehicle to talk about addiction, and it was going to

1:08:57.960 --> 1:09:02.040
<v Speaker 4>be starring Richard Dreyfus because he'd also experienced that. And

1:09:02.520 --> 1:09:04.479
<v Speaker 4>you know, she talks about it all just so matter

1:09:04.560 --> 1:09:09.320
<v Speaker 4>of factly, and it's it's very destigmatizing, it's very powerful.

1:09:09.560 --> 1:09:11.479
<v Speaker 4>And then you see it presented in this movie with

1:09:11.680 --> 1:09:13.240
<v Speaker 4>a comedic edge as well, and I think that also

1:09:13.280 --> 1:09:17.120
<v Speaker 4>has the exact same effect, which is just let's normalize

1:09:17.120 --> 1:09:19.280
<v Speaker 4>talking about this. Sometimes it is funny.

1:09:19.560 --> 1:09:24.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, she's just one of one. Yeah, no one's doing

1:09:24.840 --> 1:09:28.040
<v Speaker 2>what she's doing except this. Watching this movie and covering

1:09:28.080 --> 1:09:30.840
<v Speaker 2>it does make me want to also cover heartburn, because

1:09:30.880 --> 1:09:33.880
<v Speaker 2>I just associate her and Nora Efron so strongly as

1:09:33.960 --> 1:09:40.240
<v Speaker 2>like confessional brunettes of this era. And I feel like

1:09:40.320 --> 1:09:43.559
<v Speaker 2>there's like a fun conversation about that movie too, because

1:09:43.560 --> 1:09:47.200
<v Speaker 2>she just killed Carl Bernstein. She just killed him. She

1:09:47.320 --> 1:09:49.600
<v Speaker 2>killed them in public, and it's I think one of

1:09:49.640 --> 1:09:51.400
<v Speaker 2>the most historic things that's ever been done.

1:09:53.280 --> 1:09:54.599
<v Speaker 4>I've actually never seen heartburn.

1:09:55.840 --> 1:09:56.679
<v Speaker 2>It's great.

1:09:57.080 --> 1:09:57.719
<v Speaker 3>It's great.

1:09:58.200 --> 1:10:03.960
<v Speaker 2>She just kills one of the president's men. Anyways, Yes,

1:10:04.040 --> 1:10:06.240
<v Speaker 2>is there anything else that either of you want us

1:10:06.240 --> 1:10:10.280
<v Speaker 2>to chat about? Not really, I'm feeling good. I'm feeling good.

1:10:11.040 --> 1:10:15.120
<v Speaker 2>It definitely passes the Beachdel test about all sorts of things,

1:10:15.200 --> 1:10:21.200
<v Speaker 2>obviously primarily between Doris and Suzanne, but also between Susanne

1:10:21.439 --> 1:10:26.880
<v Speaker 2>and C. C. H. Pounder, Suzanne and Aretha, grandma and

1:10:27.760 --> 1:10:31.439
<v Speaker 2>you know, daughter and granddaughter. There is This movie is

1:10:32.000 --> 1:10:39.320
<v Speaker 2>unquestionably about women and about surviving your early days out

1:10:39.400 --> 1:10:44.200
<v Speaker 2>of addiction and surviving your mother. So easy pass it

1:10:44.320 --> 1:10:47.719
<v Speaker 2>is a very very white movie, it needs to be said.

1:10:48.200 --> 1:10:51.080
<v Speaker 3>And so reading it on our nipple scale, where we

1:10:51.240 --> 1:10:54.800
<v Speaker 3>rate the movie zero to five nipples based on examining

1:10:54.840 --> 1:11:02.320
<v Speaker 3>it through an intersectional feminist lens all, go oh gosh,

1:11:02.800 --> 1:11:08.439
<v Speaker 3>I don't know. Three four, three and a half, I

1:11:08.479 --> 1:11:08.760
<v Speaker 3>don't know.

1:11:09.080 --> 1:11:09.280
<v Speaker 2>I do.

1:11:10.000 --> 1:11:12.800
<v Speaker 3>What I like about this movie is it's I think,

1:11:13.240 --> 1:11:18.719
<v Speaker 3>more nuanced examination of a mother daughter relationship that feels authentic,

1:11:19.640 --> 1:11:22.880
<v Speaker 3>even though, like I don't have the same backstory at

1:11:23.000 --> 1:11:28.679
<v Speaker 3>all as the Suzanne character. I saw so many traces

1:11:29.000 --> 1:11:32.200
<v Speaker 3>of the types of things they argue about in arguments

1:11:32.320 --> 1:11:35.320
<v Speaker 3>I've had with my mother. Not to put my mom

1:11:35.400 --> 1:11:38.600
<v Speaker 3>on blast here, but there was just so much that

1:11:38.760 --> 1:11:43.560
<v Speaker 3>was familiar about maybe not the specifics, but of the

1:11:43.920 --> 1:11:50.120
<v Speaker 3>essence of their arguments and resentments, but also their love

1:11:50.479 --> 1:11:55.439
<v Speaker 3>and affection for each other. Yeah, so I guess because

1:11:55.439 --> 1:11:59.599
<v Speaker 3>of that, let's go three and a half and I'm

1:11:59.600 --> 1:12:03.880
<v Speaker 3>gonna get them all to Carrie Fisher. And I also

1:12:03.920 --> 1:12:07.800
<v Speaker 3>want to shout out that she had said that when

1:12:08.040 --> 1:12:11.439
<v Speaker 3>she was working as a script doctor, her goal was

1:12:11.560 --> 1:12:17.840
<v Speaker 3>to make the women characters smarter and the love scenes better.

1:12:18.520 --> 1:12:19.600
<v Speaker 2>So she did it.

1:12:19.800 --> 1:12:24.920
<v Speaker 3>A champion for women love her across the board. So yeah,

1:12:24.920 --> 1:12:26.839
<v Speaker 3>three and a half nipples all to Carrie Fisher.

1:12:27.760 --> 1:12:31.240
<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna go four. I'm going four. I'm going for it.

1:12:31.920 --> 1:12:37.760
<v Speaker 2>I love this movie. There's only one Carrie Fisher. There

1:12:37.800 --> 1:12:39.800
<v Speaker 2>are certainly things that are a product of it's time.

1:12:40.479 --> 1:12:44.360
<v Speaker 2>It doesn't tackle absolutely everything that could, and you know,

1:12:44.439 --> 1:12:49.040
<v Speaker 2>mainly it is a very white movie that said, I

1:12:49.760 --> 1:12:52.120
<v Speaker 2>just think this, I don't know. The way that she

1:12:52.280 --> 1:12:57.000
<v Speaker 2>writes relationships between women and between mothers and daughters is

1:12:57.080 --> 1:12:59.760
<v Speaker 2>so specific and so cool, and I just I love

1:13:00.000 --> 1:13:04.120
<v Speaker 2>But there is a world where Debbie Reynolds could have

1:13:04.200 --> 1:13:09.080
<v Speaker 2>taken this story's existence very poorly. But there's also really

1:13:09.160 --> 1:13:12.360
<v Speaker 2>sweet pictures of them at the premiere together, and I think,

1:13:12.560 --> 1:13:15.559
<v Speaker 2>you know, Debbie Reynolds is like, all attention is good attention,

1:13:15.760 --> 1:13:19.200
<v Speaker 2>all press is good press. She has survived so much

1:13:19.280 --> 1:13:22.920
<v Speaker 2>worse than this, and I just really appreciate just Carrie

1:13:22.960 --> 1:13:25.880
<v Speaker 2>Fisher in general, but Carrie Fisher and Debbie Reynolds like

1:13:26.880 --> 1:13:32.120
<v Speaker 2>generosity with each other to sort things out often in public.

1:13:32.200 --> 1:13:32.560
<v Speaker 3>I love it.

1:13:33.120 --> 1:13:34.800
<v Speaker 2>So I'm going to give it four nipples. I'm going

1:13:34.840 --> 1:13:37.240
<v Speaker 2>to give one to Carrie. I'm going to give one

1:13:37.600 --> 1:13:41.040
<v Speaker 2>to C. H. Pounder, I'm going to give one to

1:13:42.520 --> 1:13:45.599
<v Speaker 2>I guess SHIRLEYE. McLain, she deserves it, and then I'm

1:13:45.600 --> 1:13:47.400
<v Speaker 2>going to give my last one to Oliver Platt because

1:13:47.400 --> 1:13:49.760
<v Speaker 2>I just love to see a young Oliver Platt pop up.

1:13:50.680 --> 1:13:56.400
<v Speaker 3>He is for me, He really is for you, Jamie, Crystal,

1:13:56.439 --> 1:13:56.880
<v Speaker 3>how about you.

1:13:58.000 --> 1:13:59.479
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I think I'll see your three and a half

1:13:59.560 --> 1:14:01.320
<v Speaker 4>in your four and I think I might raise you

1:14:01.479 --> 1:14:02.120
<v Speaker 4>four and a half.

1:14:02.520 --> 1:14:02.880
<v Speaker 2>Nice.

1:14:03.400 --> 1:14:06.800
<v Speaker 4>Nice, I'm going there. Yeah. I think it's a delightful,

1:14:06.840 --> 1:14:08.720
<v Speaker 4>delightful movie, and for all of the reasons that you

1:14:08.800 --> 1:14:12.920
<v Speaker 4>guys have already outlined. But yeah, what a great time

1:14:13.240 --> 1:14:16.120
<v Speaker 4>spent watching all of these wonderful people do all of

1:14:16.160 --> 1:14:18.960
<v Speaker 4>these wonderful things. I will give my four and a

1:14:19.000 --> 1:14:22.879
<v Speaker 4>half nipples to all of the blanks that Meryl fires

1:14:23.280 --> 1:14:24.440
<v Speaker 4>off at Dennis.

1:14:24.200 --> 1:14:30.000
<v Speaker 3>Quaid and then she goes relax. They're just blanks speeds off.

1:14:30.200 --> 1:14:33.920
<v Speaker 3>There's so much like peeling out in this movie.

1:14:34.280 --> 1:14:37.960
<v Speaker 2>Really we used if we used to be a proper country.

1:14:41.880 --> 1:14:46.720
<v Speaker 2>Any Meryl Street comedy performance is worth celebrating, truly, I

1:14:46.880 --> 1:14:47.160
<v Speaker 2>know it.

1:14:47.600 --> 1:14:50.080
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I'm I'm going to see Devil Wor's part of

1:14:50.160 --> 1:14:52.439
<v Speaker 4>two tomorrow and I'm very prepared for it to be

1:14:52.520 --> 1:14:56.240
<v Speaker 4>incredibly mid but i know I'm gonna just love watching her.

1:14:56.439 --> 1:14:58.559
<v Speaker 2>It's worth it for her, It's always worth it for her.

1:14:58.720 --> 1:15:01.800
<v Speaker 3>Wow. Well, Crystal, thank you so much for joining us

1:15:02.040 --> 1:15:05.280
<v Speaker 3>for a fourth time, come back for a fifth and

1:15:05.400 --> 1:15:08.320
<v Speaker 3>get your imaginary Bechdel Cast jacket.

1:15:10.080 --> 1:15:14.439
<v Speaker 2>It's going to exist one that I we're working on it.

1:15:14.479 --> 1:15:15.160
<v Speaker 3>We're working on it.

1:15:15.640 --> 1:15:19.560
<v Speaker 2>We're yeah, they're handstitched. It takes a long time. It

1:15:19.680 --> 1:15:20.599
<v Speaker 2>takes a long time.

1:15:21.040 --> 1:15:24.280
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, thank you for having me. It's it's always such

1:15:24.280 --> 1:15:27.720
<v Speaker 4>a treat. And yeah, if you're listening, please check out

1:15:27.880 --> 1:15:31.400
<v Speaker 4>my podcast which is called camp Classics and it's out

1:15:31.479 --> 1:15:34.040
<v Speaker 4>every two weeks and we discuss movies just like this one.

1:15:34.360 --> 1:15:34.559
<v Speaker 2>Yay.

1:15:36.040 --> 1:15:39.320
<v Speaker 3>Can people follow you on Instagram or anything like that, Yes.

1:15:39.520 --> 1:15:43.360
<v Speaker 4>Camp Classics Podcast and Crystal will see you now on

1:15:44.280 --> 1:15:46.719
<v Speaker 4>all fine social medias and all the unfine ones too.

1:15:47.640 --> 1:15:51.400
<v Speaker 3>Which is most all of them, all of them. You

1:15:51.520 --> 1:15:55.480
<v Speaker 3>can follow us also on bad bad social media platforms

1:15:55.520 --> 1:15:59.880
<v Speaker 3>such as Instagram at Bechdel Cast. You can support us

1:16:00.200 --> 1:16:06.240
<v Speaker 3>on Patreon aka are Matreon, where Jamie and I do

1:16:06.439 --> 1:16:12.440
<v Speaker 3>two episodes every month based on a genius, brilliant, amazing theme.

1:16:12.840 --> 1:16:17.200
<v Speaker 2>Often of your choice unless you misbehave and then it's

1:16:17.240 --> 1:16:18.720
<v Speaker 2>of our choice. And that's just sort of how the

1:16:18.800 --> 1:16:19.639
<v Speaker 2>Matreon works.

1:16:20.680 --> 1:16:23.200
<v Speaker 3>Yes, yes, and yeah, we put up polls all the

1:16:23.320 --> 1:16:26.320
<v Speaker 3>time so you can pick which movies it's very fun

1:16:26.479 --> 1:16:29.880
<v Speaker 3>and that's all for five dollars a month at patreon

1:16:29.960 --> 1:16:32.240
<v Speaker 3>dot com slash Bechtel Cast.

1:16:32.960 --> 1:16:36.880
<v Speaker 2>And with that, uh, why don't we how do we

1:16:37.000 --> 1:16:40.120
<v Speaker 2>end this? Why don't we sing a long Shell Silverstein

1:16:40.240 --> 1:16:42.880
<v Speaker 2>country song for some reason to close it out?

1:16:43.320 --> 1:16:45.320
<v Speaker 3>Why the hellmu let's do it?

1:16:46.280 --> 1:16:47.160
<v Speaker 2>Bye bye.

1:16:50.320 --> 1:16:50.559
<v Speaker 3>Bye.

1:16:54.160 --> 1:16:57.439
<v Speaker 2>The Bechdel Cast is a production of iHeartMedia, hosted and

1:16:57.640 --> 1:16:59.720
<v Speaker 2>produced by Me, Jamie Loftus and.

1:16:59.800 --> 1:17:04.720
<v Speaker 3>Me Kaitlyn Durrante. The podcast is also produced by Sophie Lichtermann.

1:17:04.479 --> 1:17:07.120
<v Speaker 2>And edited by Caitlyn Durrante. Ever heard of Them?

1:17:07.640 --> 1:17:11.080
<v Speaker 3>That's me and our logo and merch and all of

1:17:11.120 --> 1:17:14.840
<v Speaker 3>our artwork in fact are designed by Jamie Loftus, Ever

1:17:14.880 --> 1:17:15.320
<v Speaker 3>heard of her?

1:17:15.560 --> 1:17:18.519
<v Speaker 2>Oh My God? And our theme song, by the way,

1:17:18.680 --> 1:17:22.520
<v Speaker 2>was composed by Mike Kaplan with vocals by Katherine Voskrasinski

1:17:22.960 --> 1:17:25.760
<v Speaker 2>Iconic and a special thanks to the one and only

1:17:26.120 --> 1:17:27.440
<v Speaker 2>Aristotle Ascevedo.

1:17:27.960 --> 1:17:31.759
<v Speaker 3>For more information about the podcast, please visit linktree slash

1:17:31.760 --> 1:17:32.559
<v Speaker 3>Spectel Cast