Speaker 1: On the Bechdecast, the questions asked if movies have women
Speaker 1: and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,
Speaker 1: or do they have individualism? It's the patriarchy, zeph and
Speaker 1: best start changing it with the Bechdel Cast.
Speaker 2: Caitlin, yes, Jamie, should I sing?
Speaker 3: Yes? Yes? You should?
Speaker 2: Should I podcast? That really was the equivalent of recording
Speaker 2: a live podcast at your daughter's sobriety party. Yeah, to
Speaker 2: be like, Okay, first of all, I'm fucked up. Second
Speaker 2: of all, let's let's record a podcast.
Speaker 3: Yo, let's steal the show.
Speaker 2: Welcome Home, not Carys make it all about me. I love,
Speaker 2: oh oh, I love the degree to which this is
Speaker 2: obviously carried. But Carrie has to be like, no, what
Speaker 2: could you possibly mean me? What is it? The wig?
Speaker 2: Is it Shirley McLean's wig? Welcome to the becht Cast.
Speaker 2: My name is Jamie Loftus, my name is Caitlin Droonte.
Speaker 2: This is our show where we examine movies through an
Speaker 2: intersectional feminist lens, using the Bechdel test simply as a
Speaker 2: jumping off point. And Jamie, what on earth is that? Well,
Speaker 2: the Bechdel test, We're not gonna have a trouble with
Speaker 2: it today, I tell you that much. It is a
Speaker 2: media metric originally created by queer cartoonist Alison Bechdel urginally
Speaker 2: created like as a one off joke in her comic
Speaker 2: collection dis to Watch Out four, but has since been
Speaker 2: adapted to a more generalized media metric. And our version
Speaker 2: of it requires that two characters of a marginalized gender
Speaker 2: with names speak to each other about something other than
Speaker 2: a man for more than two lines of dialogue. And
Speaker 2: in spite of Dennis Quaid's larger presence in this movie
Speaker 2: than you'd think, this movie does pass the Bechdel test.
Speaker 2: And if that's why you're listening to this show, get
Speaker 2: a life.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we've got bigger fish to fry today real in
Speaker 3: every episode. Yes, today is our episode on Postcards from
Speaker 3: the Edge nineteen ninety and our returning guest is a
Speaker 3: drag artist known for RuPaul's Drag Race UK season one.
Speaker 3: She's a host of the podcast Camp Classics, and you
Speaker 3: remember her from our episodes on Jawbreaker, Show Girls, Bram
Speaker 3: Stoker's Dracula, The Raine.
Speaker 2: It's Crystal.
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, is this my fourth appearance?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: One appearance away from a jacket, Oh my god.
Speaker 4: And truly what a bunch of different camp flavored movies. Oh,
Speaker 4: I'm so glad to be back. Thank you. Yeah. Absolutely,
Speaker 4: wigs exactly.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, the line there's blood on the wig. Really,
Speaker 2: it's so evocative.
Speaker 4: Could have easily been in Bramstoker's Dracula. Actually so true.
Speaker 2: Welcome back, Thank you so much for bringing us. Thank
Speaker 2: you this wonderful movie.
Speaker 4: Oh, I'm so excited to talk about it. I've had
Speaker 4: such a nice time this week, like just reimmersing myself
Speaker 4: in this world. It's it's delicious.
Speaker 3: Tell us all about your history, your relationship with the film,
Speaker 3: maybe the book, if you've read it, tell us everything.
Speaker 4: I'm a drag queen. I haven't read the book. And
Speaker 4: to be honest with you, this movie was kind of
Speaker 4: new to me. I think I discovered it only a
Speaker 4: year ago, and I was in Mexico and I had
Speaker 4: just taken some over the counter cold medication that really
Speaker 4: spun me out, and I was laying on my hotel bed,
Speaker 4: like literally gripping the bed, and I was like, I need,
Speaker 4: I need to find something to do, and this movie
Speaker 4: just got suggested to me on like whatever, some streaming
Speaker 4: service and I watched it. It was obviously perfect viewing
Speaker 4: for the state I was in, but yeah, I had
Speaker 4: never even heard of it before before or that moment.
Speaker 4: And then we covered it on my podcast a couple
Speaker 4: months later, and I rewatched it and I was like, oh, yeah, no,
Speaker 4: it's wasn't just the painkillers. It wasn't just the cold medicine.
Speaker 4: It was good, But yeah, I've got it. It's one
Speaker 4: of those movies that, like, I feel like I should
Speaker 4: have already been obsessed with, but it somehow passed me by.
Speaker 4: And I don't know if that's the same for for
Speaker 4: you guys, but like it feels a little forgotten somehow,
Speaker 4: despite being like a commercial success, a critical success.
Speaker 3: A solid cast.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, but yeah, it just feels a bit overlooked.
Speaker 3: I agree.
Speaker 4: So, yeah, glad to be here singing its praises.
Speaker 2: Jamie, what about you? I am the opposite. I am
Speaker 2: a I'm a loser. So I have read the book,
Speaker 2: but I also hadn't seen the movie. We've been talking
Speaker 2: about Carrie Fisher quite a bit. Recently. We just covered
Speaker 2: Empire Strikes Back. We covered her Legends episode on Daily Psych.
Speaker 2: I'm always thinking about Carrie Fisher, So it's weird that
Speaker 2: I hadn't seen this movie before, But either way, she's
Speaker 2: one of my favorite writers. I love. I've read all
Speaker 2: of her books and if you haven't, I know I
Speaker 2: said this on the show recently, but if you haven't
Speaker 2: given yourself the gift of a Carrie Fisher audio book,
Speaker 2: she reads them all and it is just like the
Speaker 2: best experience you could possibly have. And this is a
Speaker 2: really good book too, And she also reads the audiobook
Speaker 2: to the book. She you know, she's the greatest. I
Speaker 2: just like admire her so much. I think her work
Speaker 2: is so timeless, and so it is I agree Crystal,
Speaker 2: like bizarre that this movie isn't talked about more because
Speaker 2: it is. I mean, it's definitely a product of its time,
Speaker 2: but in a way that I really like. Something that
Speaker 2: I appreciate about Carrie Fisher's writing more and more the
Speaker 2: more I live is how open, not only open she
Speaker 2: is about mental health and addiction issues, but how like
Speaker 2: in the way that does is not going to work
Speaker 2: for everyone, but really worked for me. How like self
Speaker 2: deprecating she is about it, and how matter of fact
Speaker 2: she is. I feel like stories of addiction are so
Speaker 2: often tragedy porn, and that's just not how she writes
Speaker 2: about addiction, even though you know it was a huge
Speaker 2: specter in her life. And also now knowing I haven't
Speaker 2: finished it yet, but that Mike Nichols also had extensive
Speaker 2: issues with addiction throughout his life, and I feel like
Speaker 2: he's bringing his sensibility to the same topic. And I
Speaker 2: just I don't know. This movie was like my mom's
Speaker 2: visiting right now, so right place, right time. The themes
Speaker 2: were really theming for me this week, and I'm like
Speaker 2: so happy to have this movie in my life. I
Speaker 2: also watched it on I think two be so now.
Speaker 2: It's the kind of movie where you're like, I love
Speaker 2: how Postcards in the Edge has this same sports gambling
Speaker 2: commercial in it forty five times. It's my favorite.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's how it's remembered. Yes, I too have a mother,
Speaker 3: and I too perhaps have a complicated relationship with her. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I had never seen this movie either. I've notne about
Speaker 3: it for a while, and I knew that Carrie Fisher
Speaker 3: was involved in some way, but I thought it was
Speaker 3: because she was the star of the movie, not the
Speaker 3: semi autobiographical subject of the movie. Slash writer and I
Speaker 3: knew that she was a writer, but I didn't know
Speaker 3: to what extent. I mostly knew her as a script doctor.
Speaker 3: I didn't realize she had such an extensive library of novels.
Speaker 3: And I knew about Wishful Drinking, and I recently watched
Speaker 3: her solo show of it, which I enjoyed very very much.
Speaker 3: But yeah, I'm learning so much about Carrie Fisher recently,
Speaker 3: and the more I learned, the more I love her.
Speaker 3: Rip to a legend.
Speaker 2: She's so amazing. I also yeah that I did not know.
Speaker 2: I knew Meryl Streep, Charlie McLean, but truly, it's like
Speaker 2: almost everyone in this movie is so famous, even like yeah,
Speaker 2: and it builds in this fun way where you're like,
Speaker 2: whoa CCX Pounder is in this That's so fun. I
Speaker 2: love her. Gene Hackman is yelling, Anette Benning is sluting
Speaker 2: out all of her a late stage, all of our.
Speaker 3: All that flat.
Speaker 4: Rob Ryaner is there.
Speaker 2: Rob Ryer just incredible. Richard Dreyfuss, who I didn't recognize,
Speaker 2: and my mom was like, upset, I don't know, and
Speaker 2: then I had her, and then I had to tell
Speaker 2: her Dennis Quaid was a Republican. We had to have
Speaker 2: the talk about Dennis Quayne. You know what an adventure.
Speaker 3: I'm so excited to talk more about it. So let's
Speaker 3: take a quick break and then we'll come back for
Speaker 3: the recap.
Speaker 2: And we're back. Also music by Carly Simon. It should
Speaker 2: be so.
Speaker 3: I didn't realize that.
Speaker 2: Really, Yeah, this movie should be considered a classic.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's got literally everything going for it, not the
Speaker 4: least salacious celebrity gossip, which normally, you know, as a
Speaker 4: culture we're really into.
Speaker 2: It's really I just wanted to shout out because I
Speaker 2: know I talked about it, I think on the Zegist
Speaker 2: episode as well. But Carrie Fisher wrote not many other
Speaker 2: movies that sounded like there was like a lot of
Speaker 2: development hell issues. But yes, to continue what you were saying, Caitlin,
Speaker 2: she script doctored famously sister act Anastasia the Wedding Singer.
Speaker 2: She also wrote this movie that's also on Toby that
Speaker 2: I watched for fun recently that Shirley McClain is also in,
Speaker 2: called These Old Broads And if you want to watch
Speaker 2: a very disjointed movie that has a lot of old
Speaker 2: Hollywood gossip, heavily alluded to it. You gotta watch these
Speaker 2: old broads with all the two B commercials. It's Shirley McLain,
Speaker 2: Debbie Reynolds, Joan Collins, and Elizabeth Taylor. H And if
Speaker 2: you know, you know, if you don't, you're gonna be
Speaker 2: so confused by these old broads.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I remember you mentioning that, And it is also
Speaker 3: mentioned in the Be Kind Rewind.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's how I learned about it.
Speaker 3: Video essay about Carrie Fisher as a writer. I highly
Speaker 3: recommend watching that video. But she mentions how that movie
Speaker 3: kind of paves the way for like older women buddy comedies,
Speaker 3: which I associate with James.
Speaker 2: Bonda, Lily Tomlin, all those all those divas. It's a
Speaker 2: good genre. We got to keep that genre alive.
Speaker 3: Shout out eighty for Brady. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the movies. The movies do not have to be good.
Speaker 2: They just need to be made. They just need to
Speaker 2: be there.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we just need to see Shirley mclin doing things exciting.
Speaker 4: It doesn't really doesn't matter what.
Speaker 3: It does not matter what.
Speaker 2: She's so important. I'd love for her.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: All right, here's the recap for both Cards from the Edge.
Speaker 3: But first, a quick content warning for things like drug use, addiction, rape,
Speaker 3: and sexual assault. We'll talk about it. But the movie
Speaker 3: opens on Meryl Streep traveling to the US from an
Speaker 3: unspecified Latin American country, but she's pulled aside at passport control.
Speaker 3: There's violence, there's conflict there, but then she messes up
Speaker 3: her line because we're on a movie set and she's
Speaker 3: an actor named Suzanne Veil.
Speaker 2: It is so fun seeing Meryl Streep look to camera.
Speaker 2: It's so jarring.
Speaker 4: I love it so good.
Speaker 2: You're like, wait, you never do that, You famously never
Speaker 2: do that. I Oh god, I having just seen The
Speaker 2: Devil Wars Prota two, which I thought was aggressively mid
Speaker 2: but I did see it. I saw it in a
Speaker 2: new movie format that I also wouldn't recommend, but it
Speaker 2: maybe laugh a few times. It's called screenex I don't
Speaker 2: know they have one in Burbank now where it's basically
Speaker 2: like there's three screens, but there's been no movie filmed
Speaker 2: for this format, so it's just you're watching The Devil
Speaker 2: War's Prota.
Speaker 4: Two but like three times.
Speaker 2: No, it's just really stretched out on the side. And
Speaker 2: there was, oh, the best joke in the Devil Wars
Speaker 2: Prota two can only be seen in the screenex because
Speaker 2: there is one scene where Meryl Streep is sitting to
Speaker 2: the side and she's so stretched. Don't anyways, it's not
Speaker 2: very good. But that's okay. It doesn't need to be good,
Speaker 2: it just has to be made.
Speaker 3: Wow the theme of the episode.
Speaker 4: But I love this trope of like you're watching a
Speaker 4: scene and then the camera pulls back and you're like, oh,
Speaker 4: it was just all a set. It's so fun.
Speaker 3: I love a reveal like that.
Speaker 4: Uh huh. It reminds me of who framed Roger Rabbit.
Speaker 3: Yes, that is exactly how that movie opens. You don't
Speaker 3: know it's a movie. Then a character messes up, does
Speaker 3: a little blooper, and you're like, wait a minute, I've
Speaker 3: been watching a movie within a movie this whole time.
Speaker 4: It's a great gimmick.
Speaker 2: It makes you think it always works.
Speaker 3: So, yes, we realize that she is Susanne Vail, an
Speaker 3: actor and the director of the movie she's starring in. Lowell,
Speaker 3: played by Gene Hackman, pulls her aside and tells her
Speaker 3: not to fuck up his movie because he and everyone
Speaker 3: else knows that she is using a lot of drugs
Speaker 3: on set. We cut to Suzanne passed out in bed
Speaker 3: with a guy, presumably a lover, played by Dennis Quaid.
Speaker 2: Dennis Quaid with slightly frosted tips, Dennis Quaid with highlights.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he puts son in in his hair.
Speaker 4: And my toxic trade is I think Dennis Quaid looks
Speaker 4: really hot in this movie.
Speaker 2: Fortunately does he does? He looks. I still like a
Speaker 2: very formative crush for me. Was Dennis Quaiden parent trap?
Speaker 2: Like sure, Peak Quaid, It's just it's it's a shame.
Speaker 2: It's a shame.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but we did have to kill him.
Speaker 4: Yes did.
Speaker 3: Anyway, he realizes that Suzanne is unresponsive. He's trying to
Speaker 3: wake her up. She's apparently overdosed on pills, so he
Speaker 3: rushes her to the er, acts like he doesn't know her,
Speaker 3: and then speeds.
Speaker 4: Away, also very looney tunes, honestly like yes.
Speaker 3: Peels out. So doctor Richard Dreyfus pumps Susanne's stomach and
Speaker 3: saves her life. She wakes up and in the hospital
Speaker 3: room with her is C. C. H. Pounder. She's the
Speaker 3: director of the rehab unit at this hospital.
Speaker 2: I kept waiting for her to come back. I'm bummed
Speaker 2: that she doesn't come back. She's such a fun The
Speaker 2: like exchange between her and Meryl Streep about you only
Speaker 2: speak and bumper stickers is so funny.
Speaker 3: Yeah. So she is there to admit Suzanne to rehab
Speaker 3: and mentions that if they hadn't pumped her stomach, she
Speaker 3: would have died, which is a bit of a wake
Speaker 3: up call to Suzanne.
Speaker 4: Meryl is just so good in this scene. It's I mean,
Speaker 4: I don't know if anyone's ever said it before, but
Speaker 4: what an actress can You can really see her like
Speaker 4: building her defensive nos and like using humor to get
Speaker 4: out of this situation that is obviously incredibly uncomfortable for her.
Speaker 4: It's just it's so incredible how much she can tell
Speaker 4: you about her character in this scene where she's waking
Speaker 4: up in a hospital that it's ah, I love it,
Speaker 4: I love it.
Speaker 2: It's I love dialogue movies, but like just the when
Speaker 2: this movie and Mike Nichols is so good at dialogue
Speaker 2: movies when they just give Merrill and Shirley McLain room
Speaker 2: to act capital a. It's so good I could keep
Speaker 2: watching it for another forty five minutes.
Speaker 3: Yes, Yeah, So a short time later, Suzanne's mother Doris,
Speaker 3: played by Shirley McLain comes to the hospital and we
Speaker 3: learn that she is also a movie star. She is
Speaker 3: a queer icon She's a legend in her craft.
Speaker 4: Isn't there something like CEC Pounder says something like, we
Speaker 4: just need to get to the bottom of why you
Speaker 4: take all these drugs? And then Shirley McLean's.
Speaker 3: Like, hello, great writing, so good, and so Doris and
Speaker 3: Suzanne's relationship is perhaps a bit complicated.
Speaker 2: It's a bit tense, also iconic, barely disguising Debbie Reynold's name,
Speaker 2: Doris sure, sure, by the hell not.
Speaker 3: Doris is perhaps a bit overbearing and micromanagy as a parent,
Speaker 3: and Suzanne is a bit resentful toward her.
Speaker 2: Maybe and just like a category five narcissist, like hmm,
Speaker 2: everything is about her.
Speaker 3: Yeah. We will also learn that Doris perhaps has addiction
Speaker 3: issues of her own, as we will often see her
Speaker 3: drinking alcohol, something that she denies. Some more time passes
Speaker 3: and Suzanne feels ready to go back to work, but
Speaker 3: there's an she with insurance. The production of the movie
Speaker 3: she was cast in won't insure her because of her
Speaker 3: drug use unless she stays with a responsible party who
Speaker 3: can look after her such as her mother.
Speaker 4: Well, she can't stay with her father. She's worse.
Speaker 3: He's worse, is yeah?
Speaker 2: Not bad?
Speaker 4: Dear?
Speaker 2: And who could that be a reference to? We'll never know.
Speaker 3: We'll never know, certainly not Eddie Fisher.
Speaker 2: No, I I like that. I wish that this didn't
Speaker 2: get cut. Apparently there were scenes filmed with Jerry Orbach
Speaker 2: playing her father. Whoa and awesome to see it. Jerry
Speaker 2: Orbach doing Eddie Fisher would have rocked.
Speaker 3: Wow. Lumier himself.
Speaker 4: Yeah, this scene with the agent that is just so great.
Speaker 4: The way they're, the way they speak over each other,
Speaker 4: and like meryll Is finishing Shirley McLain's lines because she's
Speaker 4: heard all of these anecdotes a million times before. Oh,
Speaker 4: it's just it's perfect writing.
Speaker 3: It's great. So it's suggested that Suzanne's stay with her mother.
Speaker 3: She is very reluctant to do this, but she eventually
Speaker 3: agrees and moves in with Doris. Suzanne returns to work
Speaker 3: and on the movie set of this Like what seems
Speaker 3: like a pretty bad movie and a low budget one,
Speaker 3: she meets a producer played by Rob Reiner, who tells
Speaker 3: her that she will have to do routine drug tests
Speaker 3: or else again, the insurance won't cover her, and Suzanne
Speaker 3: finds this humiliating. Then Doris throws Suzanne a welcome back
Speaker 3: from rehab party.
Speaker 2: You know that classical party is yep, but the opportunity
Speaker 2: is she finds for attention is really a second to none.
Speaker 3: Totally, because this is the scene where Doris is encouraging
Speaker 3: Suzanne to sing for the guests, and Suzanne doesn't want to,
Speaker 3: but she reluctantly does, and then people are like, well, Doris,
Speaker 3: what if you sing too, and She's like, no, I
Speaker 3: couldn't then burst into song d flat.
Speaker 2: I think Izzy says in her video like it's the
Speaker 2: Christien Wig character from a sene.
Speaker 4: Yeah, don't make me sick, don't make me sing. It's
Speaker 4: so so good.
Speaker 2: And then she does an amazing rendition of I'm Still here?
Speaker 2: Who is? I think the CHIRLEYE. McLain is incredible in
Speaker 2: this part, but when I hear I'm Still here, I'm like, Wow.
Speaker 2: The only person who I would have wanted more in
Speaker 2: this part is Elaine Stritch. Elayne Stritch plays a bitch
Speaker 2: mother unlike anyone on the face of the planet, as
Speaker 2: evidenced in thirty rock. But right, Shirley McClain, does she
Speaker 2: have the range? I don't know, and I don't care.
Speaker 3: I felt that she did.
Speaker 2: I love Elayne Stretch. She Hers and Carrie Fisher's one
Speaker 2: woman shows were ones that I was both like obsessed
Speaker 2: with high school in college.
Speaker 4: I'll have to check it out.
Speaker 3: Oh it's so good.
Speaker 4: But yeah, this whole scene, the set piece is just
Speaker 4: again just like perfect writing. The songs that they each sing.
Speaker 4: It's kind of so annoyingly on the nose, but it
Speaker 4: still works. Like Meryl's singing you don't know me to
Speaker 4: her mother, and then her mother just completely upstaging her,
Speaker 4: and like you watch Meryll perform and you're.
Speaker 3: Like, oh, okay, she's talented.
Speaker 4: Yeah she did a good job. And then yeah, Sirley
Speaker 4: McLean's just like hold my cocktail, dear, let me show
Speaker 4: you how she flashes the panty. Yeah, it's so good.
Speaker 2: I love Meryl. I don't understand why we're like she
Speaker 2: should be singing, But I love Mama Mia of course. Nonetheless, Nonetheless,
Speaker 2: I like Meryl. I hope you had fun on your vacation, Degrease.
Speaker 4: I think Meryl is such a good actress that she
Speaker 4: can convince you she's a good singer.
Speaker 3: Yes, I mean it works on me because I'm like,
Speaker 3: is she not a good singer? I thought she won?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think. I don't know what it is, but
Speaker 2: like Charlie McClain, I think, probably a comparable singer. But
Speaker 2: like Buries her, it's just incredible.
Speaker 3: I mean, well, that's because she's the greatest showman.
Speaker 4: Yeah she is.
Speaker 1: She is.
Speaker 3: Yeah. So cut to Suzanne back on the set of
Speaker 3: the movie. She's getting various notes about her performance, including
Speaker 3: from a producer played by Oliver Platt. Then she hears
Speaker 3: the director talking to wardrobe about her body and they're
Speaker 3: talking about how she eats too much and she's gaining
Speaker 3: weight and just you know, classic body shaming stuff. Then
Speaker 3: she runs into the Dennis Quaid guy again, this is Jack.
Speaker 3: She doesn't realize exactly who he is at first, and
Speaker 3: then he reminds her that it was him who took
Speaker 3: her to.
Speaker 2: The hospital and does I pretty like, I think if
Speaker 2: you were to have to show in two minutes or
Speaker 2: less what is love bombing and what can it look like,
Speaker 2: it would be this scene that is about to come
Speaker 2: up with them.
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, we will talk all about their relationship because
Speaker 3: it is troublesome.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he is just, uh, you know how some people
Speaker 2: just have a way of laser focusing you at your lowest.
Speaker 2: He's that person.
Speaker 3: Yes, So what happens is they reconnect, they kiss a bit,
Speaker 3: and then they arrange a date. He picks her up,
Speaker 3: but Doris answers the door and she's very chummy with him,
Speaker 3: and Susan has to pull her mother aside to be like,
Speaker 3: stop overshadowing me, and stop making everyone like you more
Speaker 3: than they'd like me and stuff like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And then on their date at Jack's fancy Malibu house.
Speaker 3: I think he's a movie producer, she tells him that
Speaker 3: she's in recovery. She can't do casual li fair, she's
Speaker 3: not really ready for romance.
Speaker 2: And he's like, great, I've been looking for someone exactly
Speaker 2: as vulnerable as you. This is awesome news.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and he professes his love for her, and she's like,
Speaker 3: we barely know each other and he's like, no, no, no,
Speaker 3: I've seen you in movies and I fell in love
Speaker 3: with you on screen.
Speaker 4: Is this where we get the line she was in
Speaker 4: a movie called A Night Full of Shoes.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, somewhere around here, Oh Carrie Fisher jokes are
Speaker 2: so specific.
Speaker 1: I love it.
Speaker 4: I loved you in A Night full of Shoes.
Speaker 3: Incredible. She's in another movie, like fake movie called I
Speaker 3: think public Domain, which does sound like it would be
Speaker 3: the title of a movie. Yes, but A Night full
Speaker 3: of Shoes is so good.
Speaker 2: I love I love it even when I mean this
Speaker 2: is very Carrie Fisher. But like, even when she's writing
Speaker 2: her insert character, she still writes her to be kind
Speaker 2: of a loser, like compared to her mother, which you know, Susan,
Speaker 2: it doesn't seem like Suzanne Vale had the Princess Leah
Speaker 2: moment and the way that Carrie Fisher dead, it seems
Speaker 2: like she's been stuck on TV. I think that the
Speaker 2: book gets more into like how stuck in TV? She
Speaker 2: was sure anyway, Jack is love bombing her, and because
Speaker 2: she's so vulnerable it works quote unquote. She seems flattered
Speaker 2: and they sleep together. Suzanne returns home late that night
Speaker 2: and Doris has been worried sick about her because she
Speaker 2: didn't call and didn't show up, and Doris has been
Speaker 2: drinking again, as she often does. Suzanne suggests that maybe
Speaker 2: her mother has issues with addiction as well. But again
Speaker 2: Doris refused to admit anything of the sort.
Speaker 4: She drinks like an Irish person, yes, she says.
Speaker 3: A bit later, back on the movie set, Suzanne finds
Speaker 3: out that another woman in the cast, Evelyn played by
Speaker 3: Annette Benning, also knows Jack, so Suzanne goes to talk
Speaker 3: to her, and it turns out that Evelyn slept with
Speaker 3: Jack recently, and in fact, on the same day that
Speaker 3: Suzanne went to his house, and apparently he has a
Speaker 3: reputation for seeing many women at once.
Speaker 2: I don't think I've ever seen a net Benning in
Speaker 2: a role like this before. I feel like I'm so
Speaker 2: used to seeing her as like wife.
Speaker 4: With Bob, but like I'm she's giving full.
Speaker 2: It's really it took me a second to realize it
Speaker 2: was her.
Speaker 1: She.
Speaker 2: I mean, she's so amazing that I was like, wow,
Speaker 2: I've just never seen her in the like it's Hollywood dark,
Speaker 2: like roll yeah.
Speaker 4: Like the idea that she's stealing a scene from Meryl
Speaker 4: Streep is like, I know, and this is her first movie.
Speaker 4: Oh really, Oh my god, yeah yeah, yeah, she's so
Speaker 4: so good. The way she just puts that twizzle stick
Speaker 4: in her mouth as she's like talking about how she
Speaker 4: loves to fuck. It's like, no notes, no notes in
Speaker 4: that betting.
Speaker 3: He's like, no big deal, it's the nineties, ye, Shara condoms.
Speaker 4: Yeah, she's in it for the Dolphin Rush.
Speaker 2: The Dolphin.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I did not even realize that was a net Benning
Speaker 3: until I had already watched the movie and then was
Speaker 3: like scouring IMDb and I was like, wait a minute,
Speaker 3: what do you mean Anette Benning's in this movie?
Speaker 1: Who?
Speaker 3: And then I realized it was her. She racks anyway,
Speaker 3: So now Suzanne knows that Jack is sleeping with multiple people,
Speaker 3: so she confronts him about it, and he acts like
Speaker 3: a total dick. He admits to sexually assaulting her the
Speaker 3: night she was passed out in his bed, and again,
Speaker 3: we'll talk about this, yeah, but they break up. The
Speaker 3: next day, Doris tells Suzanne that her business manager has disappeared,
Speaker 3: along with all of his client's money. So Suzanne's money
Speaker 3: is gone, and then she and Doris start talking about
Speaker 3: Suzanne's career, her history with addiction, and it turns into
Speaker 3: an argument. They're talking about blame, jealousy, resentment, Doris's parenting,
Speaker 3: Doris's drinking, and how her skirt twirled up at Suzanne's
Speaker 3: seventeenth birthday party and she wasn't wearing any underwear and
Speaker 3: it's this iconic scene when they're on the stairs. Anyway,
Speaker 3: Suzanne storms out of the house. She takes some pills
Speaker 3: but then makes herself throw up. She shows up at
Speaker 3: an adr slash like looping session with that director Lowell
Speaker 3: for the movie she was doing at the beginning, and
Speaker 3: then she and Lowell have a heart to heart where
Speaker 3: he gives her advice about breaking this cycle of generational trauma.
Speaker 2: Yes.
Speaker 3: And then on Suzanne's way back home, she sees a
Speaker 3: car accident and it turns out that her mother had
Speaker 3: been drinking and driving and smashed into a tree and
Speaker 3: she was arrested and then taken to the hospital with
Speaker 3: a minor head injury. So Suzanne goes to the hospital.
Speaker 3: Her grandmother is there, who we met previously at the
Speaker 3: party scene, and she's freaking out. She's saying, I can't
Speaker 3: believe I have a daughter and a granddaughter who are
Speaker 3: both addicts and losers. So Suzanne is like, fuck you, Grandma,
Speaker 3: get out of here. She kicks her out of the room,
Speaker 3: and then Susanna and Doris start to reconcile and she
Speaker 3: helps her mom do her makeup. It's a really sweet,
Speaker 3: tender scene. Then Suzanne bumps into doctor Richard Dreyfus. He
Speaker 3: had sent her flowers after he pumped her stomach, and
Speaker 3: then he asks her on a date and she's like,
Speaker 3: I'll go out with you, but I'm not ready to date.
Speaker 3: And then he's like, no, worries, I'll wait. And then
Speaker 3: we cut to Suzanne on the set of another movie
Speaker 3: or music video, I'm not totally sure, but it's directed
Speaker 3: by Lowell and she performs a song Heartbreak Hotel, and
Speaker 3: her mom and some friends are on set to support
Speaker 3: her the end.
Speaker 2: And fun fact that song at the end was written
Speaker 2: by shel Silverstein, famous children's poet.
Speaker 3: Yes, oh, I thought that was Is that not an
Speaker 3: Elvis song Heartbreak Hotel? Is that a different song?
Speaker 4: Elvis has a song called Heartbreak Hotel, but it is
Speaker 4: a different one different.
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, so shout out Shell Silverstein.
Speaker 4: And that song was OSCAR nominated as well as was
Speaker 4: Merrill in this movie.
Speaker 3: Yeah, incredible.
Speaker 4: Do you know how many Oscar nominations Merril had by
Speaker 4: this point in nineteen ninety.
Speaker 2: Oh god seven? This was her ninth, ninth nine, and
Speaker 2: she was like, what forty or something ridiculous?
Speaker 3: Ridiculous goodness, Well, let's take a quick break and really
Speaker 3: ponder that.
Speaker 2: Let that sink in.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and we're back. Gosh, Okay, where do we start?
Speaker 4: I guess maybe we can just talk about like the
Speaker 4: diva worship of it all a bit. I mean, that's
Speaker 4: definitely the appeal a lot of the appeal of this movie.
Speaker 4: For me, it's the it's the seeing the Hollywood glamour,
Speaker 4: seeing behind the scenes, seeing the struggles that make up
Speaker 4: these gorgeous, fabulous creatures that we all worship, and it's
Speaker 4: it just really scratches an itch, and even more so
Speaker 4: because you know it's kind of true and kind of
Speaker 4: not and it's presented in this humorous package. It gives
Speaker 4: you permission to revel in it, which clearly Carrie Fisher
Speaker 4: was doing when she was writing this, like she was
Speaker 4: having so much fun kind of making fun of her
Speaker 4: of the ridiculousness of also the trauma of her life.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I don't know. I just think it's so it's so
Speaker 4: fun to watch Shirley McLane just chew up the scenery
Speaker 4: as this big character who yes, not a very good mother,
Speaker 4: but like brings she brings so much heart and soul
Speaker 4: into it, and like, you know, you can't escape the
Speaker 4: comparison to something like Mommy Dearist, which is kind of
Speaker 4: the same story but is so much right, yeah, so
Speaker 4: much harder to watch and so much more tragic. It's
Speaker 4: it can be fun to watch that movie in a
Speaker 4: camp way because it's also over the top, but like
Speaker 4: the subject matter is dark as fuck. Yeah, whereas this movie,
Speaker 4: you know, everybody loves each other. They're just messed up people,
Speaker 4: and that that dynamic between them, I think is so special. Like,
Speaker 4: you know, we already talked about it a little bit,
Speaker 4: but that scene where they are both doing their show
Speaker 4: tunes and you can see if it was Mommy DearS,
Speaker 4: you know, the daughter character would just be watching her
Speaker 4: mom perform and she'd fucking hate her and it would
Speaker 4: be like they were at war with each other. But
Speaker 4: in this movie, like you watch Meryl go through this
Speaker 4: entire journey of like I'm proud of my mother. She's
Speaker 4: such an amazing star, and you can see her be
Speaker 4: like a little girl who's like in awe of her
Speaker 4: incredibly talented mother, and then she can then she's like,
Speaker 4: oh that's making me shrink. Oh that's hard for me.
Speaker 4: And it's like all of these this mix of emotions,
Speaker 4: which is which just feels so real, and I think
Speaker 4: I've just talked to my way around a couple of topics.
Speaker 4: But it's yeah, I love I love this movie for
Speaker 4: all of that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, No, the admiration they have for each other, but
Speaker 3: also the resentment for different reasons. Because Susanne resents her
Speaker 3: mother or blames her for getting her addicted to drugs.
Speaker 3: She's like, you fed me sleeping pills when I was
Speaker 3: nine years old, resents her for always wanting to be
Speaker 3: the center of attention, you know, things like that. And
Speaker 3: then Doris seems to be harboring some resentment about the
Speaker 3: fact that she's an aging actor who's a woman in
Speaker 3: Hollywood and feels like her time has passed and her
Speaker 3: daughter's up and coming, and you know, just all these things.
Speaker 3: But then again, they admire each other, they think each
Speaker 3: other is talented. It's just it does feel like such
Speaker 3: an authentic portrayal of a mother daughter relationship. Obviously not
Speaker 3: every mother daughter relationship, but sure there were aspects of
Speaker 3: this that felt very familiar.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I really appreciate that, and I know that, like again,
Speaker 2: everyone's my edge is going to vary with a story
Speaker 2: like this because it's impossible not to project yourself onto
Speaker 2: the characters. But like there's so many things that I
Speaker 2: think Carrie Fisher is so uniquely good at. She is
Speaker 2: very aware of like how directly this is going to
Speaker 2: be compared to her life, even though she has remained
Speaker 2: pretty firm that like this pulls from her life, but
Speaker 2: is not a biography, you know, a biographical film, which
Speaker 2: is part of why and this does always crack me up.
Speaker 2: Debbie Reynolds was like, I'll do it. I'll play the part,
Speaker 2: and which to me is like I don't know. The
Speaker 2: better of how you look at it is like okay,
Speaker 2: so it can't be that real. If Debbie Reynolds is
Speaker 2: like I would love to do it, I could do it,
Speaker 2: and Mike Nichols was gently like.
Speaker 3: No, yeah, like you're not right for the part, which
Speaker 3: it's not quite you, it's something else, it's someone else.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it would be so distracting from I mean,
Speaker 2: it's so so much of the stories potentially in that
Speaker 2: interaction alone of like you know, this is Carrie's story.
Speaker 2: Debeat but anyways, but the fact that you know everyone,
Speaker 2: it seems like everyone involved in this production had ties
Speaker 2: to this family and a lot of love for the family,
Speaker 2: regardless of how much of the family actually appears on screen. Obviously,
Speaker 2: Carrie Fisher's she's writing based on these dynamics. Potentially, Shirley
Speaker 2: Maclain was a really close friend of Debbie Reynolds. Mike
Speaker 2: Nichols and Carrie Fisher were close. Mike Nichols also directed
Speaker 2: Elizabeth Taylor. Like there's just all of these like connections
Speaker 2: that but through all of that, like it would be
Speaker 2: so easy for Carrie Fisher's writing to be like navel
Speaker 2: gazy bullshit, but she's so clear on processing feelings around privilege,
Speaker 2: Like she does not let Suzanne get away with the
Speaker 2: amount of privilege that she absolutely does have. We see
Speaker 2: other people react to that privilege, and we see Suzanne
Speaker 2: internalize and develop a deep shame around like understanding she
Speaker 2: has privileged but still struggling. And it's just like it's
Speaker 2: such a difficult needle to thread, I would imagine, especially
Speaker 2: if that is like very similar to your background that
Speaker 2: she's so good at. It's like amazing to watch in
Speaker 2: the fact that she you know, with Shirley McClain's character,
Speaker 2: Doris is able to portray that, you know, this is
Speaker 2: a character who also clearly struggles with addiction, but the
Speaker 2: struggles we don't even really know, like she's just sort
Speaker 2: of refusing to confront it. And seeing Suzanne you sort
Speaker 2: of have to contend with, like, is this someone I
Speaker 2: can have in my life if this is the case?
Speaker 2: Because in the end and it is like, you know,
Speaker 2: maybe dismissive of an addiction, but I was laughing whatever
Speaker 2: at the end where Shirley McLain is like giving the
Speaker 2: interview to the press and you're like, what are you
Speaker 2: gonna do next? And she's like, I'm gonna go back
Speaker 2: to drinking. Thank you, thank you so much, and everyone's
Speaker 2: like got it, got it, got it. But I just
Speaker 2: I really love that whatever. I think it's safe to
Speaker 2: say that Doris has narcissistic qualities and that Suzanne is
Speaker 2: such a like, I think well written child of a narcissist,
Speaker 2: where she is hyper aware of what her mother is
Speaker 2: like and it clearly informs her own behavior and how
Speaker 2: she talks to and perceives other people, and that she
Speaker 2: also has a lot of empathy for her mom in
Speaker 2: many moments where you would have to have a lot
Speaker 2: of empathy to keep this woman in your life, first
Speaker 2: of all, Like, but that she does seem to understand.
Speaker 2: And I feel like we're given information in like broad
Speaker 2: the broad characters, but like by seeing the grandparents and
Speaker 2: seeing because that that also is very similar to Debbie
Speaker 2: Reynolds's life where she grew up, you know, with absolutely
Speaker 2: nothing and and then became this big star and is
Speaker 2: always there's always going to be like tension and maybe
Speaker 2: overdoing the opulence to escape your past quote unquote, but
Speaker 2: that I don't know that Suzanne like understands this is
Speaker 2: how my mother is. If I want her in my life,
Speaker 2: I kind of have to accept it and create boundaries.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I have to imagine I wish I had
Speaker 3: paid closer attention to the scenes with Suzanne's grandmother because
Speaker 3: I think she's only in two scenes. Yeah, but it
Speaker 3: seems clear to me at least that Suzanne recognizes the
Speaker 3: ways in which her grandmother affected her mother's life. Right,
Speaker 3: And you know, again the cycle of dysfunction type parenting dysfunction.
Speaker 3: You know, perhaps Doris got that from her mother and
Speaker 3: is passing it down to Susanne. So it almost made
Speaker 3: me want the grandmother character to be more prominent, just
Speaker 3: to kind of drive that home a bit more.
Speaker 2: Two generations of trauma simply was not enough.
Speaker 3: We need the third more.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I like it, even though the I think
Speaker 2: definitely the grandparents are like a little cartoonier than the
Speaker 2: other two generations. But I do think that, like, I
Speaker 2: don't know, it's in a very carry Fisher way. And
Speaker 2: I will excuse basically most of the things that people
Speaker 2: don't like about her writing, but that even though you
Speaker 2: have this sort of cartoonish presentation of people essentially from
Speaker 2: the South, from low income background, you still get this
Speaker 2: thing that like, not a lot of people are good
Speaker 2: at writing, where it's like this grandmother, while dismissive and
Speaker 2: unkind to her daughter and granddaughter, is also receiving constant
Speaker 2: verbal abuse from her husband, who appears to be suffering
Speaker 2: from mental illness. But it does seem like, I mean,
Speaker 2: I don't know, I have memories of my grandparents having
Speaker 2: a dynamic like that, and that when one of their
Speaker 2: you know, mental capacities began to slip, the cruel behavior
Speaker 2: that was displayed before escalates and it just you know,
Speaker 2: she is both unkind to her daughter and granddaughter and
Speaker 2: is literally being screamed at by her husband to shut
Speaker 2: up every second of her life, and like, both of
Speaker 2: these things have to be true, and seeing them both
Speaker 2: at the same time helps you understand where Doris comes
Speaker 2: from and therefore where Suzanne comes from. It's so good.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it does occasionally verge on like quite hollywoody, I
Speaker 4: guess where it's like everything does get a little bit
Speaker 4: neatly wrapped up, and it's like you get given the
Speaker 4: lesson and then she applies it and then everybody has
Speaker 4: a reconciliation and everyone moves on and drug addiction solved,
Speaker 4: and you know, there's a little bow on everything. But
Speaker 4: it is also just really satisfying to watch, and that's
Speaker 4: like what makes kind of a movie kind of worth watching.
Speaker 4: We like the resolution, We like all of that, and
Speaker 4: so yeah, the fact that you've got that Gene Hackman
Speaker 4: speech where he's like, you know, your mother did it
Speaker 4: to you, and her mother did her all the way
Speaker 4: back to eve and at some point you have to
Speaker 4: say it stops, and then the next scene Susanna puts
Speaker 4: a stop to it. It's just like very satisfying. Also,
Speaker 4: she puts stop to it while she's tying a turban
Speaker 4: around her mother's head, which that looks like it's probably
Speaker 4: hard to do, and she had to practice that a lot.
Speaker 3: She has false eyelashes on her mother.
Speaker 2: Not that well, to be honest, not that I was
Speaker 2: like the blush was messy, too much blush. Yeah, but
Speaker 2: there is also something I mean, it's like again, is
Speaker 2: it toxic? Yes, But also it is so satisfying seeing
Speaker 2: these two divas march out of the hospital room after
Speaker 2: a dui and be like, here we are and we
Speaker 2: look amazing.
Speaker 4: You're like, come get me boys.
Speaker 3: I also got the impression that they had only just
Speaker 3: begun to reconcile and that their their relationship still needs
Speaker 3: a lot of repair and yeah, fair therapy perhaps, but
Speaker 3: that they had begun the journey of addressing their issues
Speaker 3: with one another. So I think it would have been
Speaker 3: like really too like sacarine and too Hollywood if they
Speaker 3: were like, and we fixed everything and now we're the
Speaker 3: best mother daughter pair you've ever seen. And I didn't
Speaker 3: get that impression. It was more just like, they still
Speaker 3: have some problems to work through, but they're in a
Speaker 3: better place to start to do that now.
Speaker 4: Yeah, they kind of get to have the fantasy conversation
Speaker 4: that you wish you could have with your parents, which
Speaker 4: is like, and now we're both going to explain our
Speaker 4: central issue with each other and like that will be
Speaker 4: so great, and like obviously that just never you know,
Speaker 4: those are the things that kind of never get said.
Speaker 4: But it is incredibly satisfying to watch these two characters
Speaker 4: kind of get that moment.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and really see them like struggle too. Like it's
Speaker 2: I don't know, like the fact that Zan is struggling
Speaker 2: so much in these like early days of sobriety, and
Speaker 2: in a way that feels like it's really funny but
Speaker 2: also realistic. And I don't know, I like little patterns
Speaker 2: I was noticing on my second watcher, like, Okay, both
Speaker 2: her mother and grandmother have these husbands who are just there.
Speaker 2: Arguably grandfather is there because maybe he's like experiencing some
Speaker 2: form of dementia, but I'm I'm gonna headcan and say
Speaker 2: he was always kind of just there. Sureley Mcleane's husband
Speaker 2: is truly horizontal for the entire movie.
Speaker 3: It's so good, barely says a word, barely is aware
Speaker 3: of what's going on around him, and you.
Speaker 2: See to some extent in that last scene, like Suzanne
Speaker 2: begin to break that cycle where, of course in the
Speaker 2: early days of her sobriety, of course, like getting love
Speaker 2: bombed by a hot guy, it's tempting under any circumstances,
Speaker 2: but like it makes sense to me why she is,
Speaker 2: but why both she tries to attempts to set a
Speaker 2: boundary that he love bombs his way through and that
Speaker 2: she is in a vulnerable place that makes her receptive
Speaker 2: to what he's saying even though he very much doesn't
Speaker 2: mean it and in fact is an abuser to a
Speaker 2: degree that she eventually learned. But I just I don't know,
Speaker 2: Like she is both so funny and so specific and
Speaker 2: also very vulnerable and I can't it's just like I
Speaker 2: really love it. And then at the end that she's
Speaker 2: able to draw the boundary of like not a good time,
Speaker 2: Doctor Dreyfus or whatever.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean this character experience is basically every humiliation
Speaker 4: a person can experience in like what the month that
Speaker 4: she's been out of rehabits, the world is really laying
Speaker 4: it on thick on her, and it's almost a little
Speaker 4: bit sex in the city, Like the level of indignities
Speaker 4: she has to suffer. But it's yeah, very fun to watch.
Speaker 3: I mean, speaking of some of these characters, as far
Speaker 3: as Doris's husband, Suzanne's grandfather, Jack, and we'll talk more
Speaker 3: about the relationship with Jack specifically, but I noticed, especially
Speaker 3: on my second watch of this movie that basically all
Speaker 3: the men are despicable in some way, to varying degrees
Speaker 3: of despicableness. But because I mean, like, I feel like
Speaker 3: Jack is the extreme where he sexually assaults an unconscious person.
Speaker 3: But then you've got various producers on the movie set
Speaker 3: who are just condescending and shitty. There's the director who
Speaker 3: is body shaming her, and he is talking with a
Speaker 3: woman Dana Ivy, who I associate with the Adams family.
Speaker 3: Oh okay, Yeah, they're talking about her body is if
Speaker 3: it's a piece of meat, and again fat shaming her,
Speaker 3: which is absurd because look at Meryl Streep in this movie.
Speaker 3: Then you've got Lowell, who cares more about his movie
Speaker 3: and his art than the well being of the human
Speaker 3: beings in his movie. You've got Marty, the business manager
Speaker 3: who steals Suzanne's money and disappears. Yeah, so, just like
Speaker 3: every man is horrible and also kind of barely a character.
Speaker 3: I love that they're just sort of like secondary or
Speaker 3: tertiary characters, and that the main focus remains on Suzanne
Speaker 3: and Doris.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I love stories about women. Well that's a whole sentence,
Speaker 2: but like how they're working their way around men, which
Speaker 2: is like so much of life working around men and
Speaker 2: suffering as a result of the actions of men. But
Speaker 2: this story does not need to be focused on them.
Speaker 2: I really I appreciated. It felt very much like a
Speaker 2: note we would have on most movies of this genre,
Speaker 2: being like why didn't she have more friends? Why didn't
Speaker 2: she have people to talk to you? And I think
Speaker 2: that this movie does a great job with that, with
Speaker 2: giving her a character that she becomes friends with in rehab,
Speaker 2: a character played by Robin Bartlett Aretha Area.
Speaker 3: I left out of the recap, but she is there.
Speaker 2: I mean, she's sort of a friend character. Like I guess,
Speaker 2: not much changes if she's not there, But I think
Speaker 2: it is like crucial that she is there, if that
Speaker 2: makes sense, because it's just it makes the world feel
Speaker 2: more real. I automatically like a character a million times
Speaker 2: more if she has a cool goth friend, you know,
Speaker 2: like the world feels very even though it's like very elevated,
Speaker 2: it feels lived in and I really appreciated that, and
Speaker 2: that she keeps coming back. That's why I wish. I mean,
Speaker 2: I guess it wouldn't make sense if C. H. Pounder's
Speaker 2: character came back because why would your rehab doctor be around?
Speaker 2: But I just wanted to see her again.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, speaking of shitty men, I feel like even Richard Dreyfus,
Speaker 4: like I think the movie thinks he's kind of a
Speaker 4: good guy, but I don't. I don't think he comes
Speaker 4: off very well and in this year.
Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe it's not appropriate to ask a patient on
Speaker 3: a date.
Speaker 4: I think, not especially one that like its famous and
Speaker 4: you have a crush on because you've seen in movies
Speaker 4: in any situation. But it's just weird, it's it's stockersh
Speaker 4: and it's.
Speaker 2: Gross, especially the line I'll wait. You're like, no need,
Speaker 2: no need?
Speaker 3: Should we talk about Jack? I guess Dennis Quaid, we
Speaker 3: have to, Yeah, we must. Yeah. I really struggled with
Speaker 3: this series of beats for a few reasons. But so again,
Speaker 3: trigger warning here for rape. But this storyline starts with
Speaker 3: the scene where Jack wakes up. They're in bed together,
Speaker 3: he realizes that she's unresponsive, so he takes her to
Speaker 3: the er. He is shitty about that, as we already
Speaker 3: mentioned in the recap, where he pretends he doesn't know her,
Speaker 3: refuses to give his name to the hospital, and then
Speaker 3: like peels out in his jeep wrangler.
Speaker 4: Bad sign, Bad Sign.
Speaker 3: They bump into each other later, and it was unclear
Speaker 3: to me if Jack was kind of like following her
Speaker 3: trying to bump into her, if it was just coincidental.
Speaker 3: I didn't have a clear sense of that. But either way,
Speaker 3: they reconnect and Jack tells her nothing happened that night,
Speaker 3: we just talked.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And he does that very intentionally to sell her
Speaker 2: on the idea that he is a not I wouldn't
Speaker 2: even say respectful, but just that he is not a monster.
Speaker 3: Yeah. He says, like, I have rules, Like you were
Speaker 3: under the influence, I have rules about that. And it's like, okay, sir,
Speaker 3: that is the bare minimum.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's like, okay, so you don't you don't
Speaker 2: belong in jail, got it?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 3: And then her response feels like a very like of
Speaker 3: the time, nineteen nineties kind of thing, because she's like, well,
Speaker 3: why didn't anything happen, was I that unappealing to you?
Speaker 3: Which of the time, of the time, I'm giving Carrie
Speaker 3: Fisher every pass. And then the following scene they're in
Speaker 3: together is when he's love bombing her and she's you know,
Speaker 3: she's saying like, no, I can't do this, I can't
Speaker 3: do a casual relationship. I'm not ready for anything like this,
Speaker 3: and he blows past all of that. He takes advantage
Speaker 3: of her vulnerable state and professes his love, which is
Speaker 3: like absolutely false and fake. Then she finds out he
Speaker 3: is seeing multiple women and has not told her about them,
Speaker 3: and she says like, I don't even care that you're
Speaker 3: seeing other people. I care that you lied about that, right,
Speaker 3: And then he starts making sweeping generalizations about women, basically
Speaker 3: implying that women don't know what they want. Oh, you
Speaker 3: say one thing, but you mean another thing, and your
Speaker 3: feelings can't be trusted and classic shitty stuff like that.
Speaker 3: And then he reveals that he raped her when she
Speaker 3: was blacked out. Yeah, and the movie does not exactly
Speaker 3: acknowledge it for the rape that it is.
Speaker 2: Again of the time, Yeah, I think it's obviously like
Speaker 2: it makes the character come off worse, but I don't
Speaker 2: think worse to the degree that we consider it to
Speaker 2: be worse, like and I don't, I mean it is.
Speaker 2: I would be curious what kind of process a scene
Speaker 2: like that being written in nineteen ninety goes through. It
Speaker 2: feels weird to say, like, I appreciate that it's there,
Speaker 2: but like it I don't. I don't know, like the
Speaker 2: fact that the movie gives him no way out of
Speaker 2: being an absolute monster but doesn't quite make it clear
Speaker 2: the degree to which he is. But then it's like,
Speaker 2: I don't know. I mean, carry Fisher is generally like really,
Speaker 2: she's really good on these issues. She famously sent a
Speaker 2: producer who attempted to assault her friend in a cab
Speaker 2: a cow's tongue in a Tiffany box like.
Speaker 4: She's that's incredible, She's amazing.
Speaker 2: So I fully believe that, like Carrie Fisher understands how
Speaker 2: monstros is. So it is interesting that it is presented
Speaker 2: with this sort of like I don't know, like I
Speaker 2: don't even know what the word is.
Speaker 4: I think it's just that it's a comedy and they're
Speaker 4: just trying to keep it kind of light, and they
Speaker 4: kind of make him look as bad as you can
Speaker 4: in a comedy like this. I agree with you, though,
Speaker 4: he'd be nice to see him punished a little more,
Speaker 4: you know, lose his job.
Speaker 3: Say, yeah something. I also think it's probably again, just
Speaker 3: a byproduct of the time where for a very long time,
Speaker 3: I think people's impression of what rape was was like
Speaker 3: snatching someone off the street, dragging them into an alley.
Speaker 2: And like, yeah, almost always a stranger, a stranger.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that our understanding of all of the circumstances
Speaker 3: under which an act could be considered assault or rape,
Speaker 3: we're just not fully recognized or understood at the time. Yeah,
Speaker 3: So I think it's probably partly that.
Speaker 4: And this plot point kind of comes up as well
Speaker 4: in Working Girl, which is another Mike Nichols movie. Yeah,
Speaker 4: and Melanie Griffiths has passed out, and Harrison Ford it's
Speaker 4: been so long since since I've seen it.
Speaker 2: You have we evenen covered it's been so long since
Speaker 2: we covered it.
Speaker 4: I think he gets like good guy points for not
Speaker 4: having sex with her. Well she's unconscious again, bare minimum shit,
Speaker 4: the bare minimum. Yeah right. Apparently Dennis Quaid in this
Speaker 4: movie is kind of based on Harrison Ford though, which
Speaker 4: is kind of fun. Yeah, that kind of tracks yep.
Speaker 2: And it's so it's so tough because it's like you,
Speaker 2: I don't know, Carrie Fisher has written extensively about or
Speaker 2: that it was like published shortly before she died, about
Speaker 2: the affair that she had with Harrison Ford, and it's
Speaker 2: just I mean, this is just like a I feel like,
Speaker 2: sometimes difficult conversation to have intergenerationally about like she was
Speaker 2: a teenager, he was, you know, in his thirties and married,
Speaker 2: and obviously the power dynamic was wildly different. But and
Speaker 2: she both sees it that way and doesn't see it
Speaker 2: that way and didn't want people to think ill of
Speaker 2: him as a result. That it's just so like it
Speaker 2: feels like a very difficult, kind of impossible conversation have,
Speaker 2: especially when it's like, well, you can't tell her she's
Speaker 2: wrong for how she perceives her own experiences. But I
Speaker 2: think that a woman of a younger generation would feel
Speaker 2: quite different.
Speaker 3: I don't know, sure, Yeah, it's complicated, it is.
Speaker 4: I kind of just want to shout out, like the
Speaker 4: beautiful world that is created here, the Hollywood of it,
Speaker 4: all the set pieces. I think it's just so fun.
Speaker 4: The first thing I can think of that happens is
Speaker 4: when we see Suzanne Merrill on the set of her
Speaker 4: new movie and she's getting tied to a cactus and
Speaker 4: she's in the desert and she's getting tied to this
Speaker 4: cactus and then someone just opens a door in the
Speaker 4: back of the desert and sets. It was so good,
Speaker 4: and there's moments like that throughout which are just like,
Speaker 4: I don't know, it's movie, it's movie magic. It's so fun.
Speaker 4: Like she's talking to Dennis Quaide at one point and
Speaker 4: then the house that he's standing in front of just
Speaker 4: drives away. The scene where she's chatting to an atte
Speaker 4: Benning like they're walking through a lot and they're suddenly
Speaker 4: in a New York, snowy New York street, and then
Speaker 4: they're back at the food truck and there's Freddy Krueger
Speaker 4: in the line behind them. For the I didn't even
Speaker 4: notice that. Yeah, for Craft Services, it's the bit where
Speaker 4: she's hanging on the window but it's actually horizontal. Like
Speaker 4: it's really really great, and it's just these fun little
Speaker 4: visual gags that like they're just so smart and yeah,
Speaker 4: it's great. It's great little storytelling, and it constantly kind
Speaker 4: of highlights the absurdity of this world that she's in,
Speaker 4: this industry, that she's in, the fact that she has
Speaker 4: this confrontation with Dennis Quid dressed as a cop.
Speaker 3: Right the complete with lengths in her like a pop gun.
Speaker 4: Which we've learned since don't don't, don't do it's very
Speaker 4: dangerous unless it's Dennis Quaid.
Speaker 2: Maybe take your chances. Yeah, this was like a slightly
Speaker 2: less like prominent theme, but one that I appreciated and
Speaker 2: one that definitely comes up throughout Carrie Fisher's life is
Speaker 2: how like the entertainment industry deals quote unquote deals with
Speaker 2: and punishes people with addiction issues, where I think like
Speaker 2: making the point that literally on a production actors are
Speaker 2: insured like they are not people, which is to I mean,
Speaker 2: I guess, you know, prevent you know, harm potentially to
Speaker 2: others as well, But but it also is like a
Speaker 2: fundamentally capitalist decision in a way that is acknowledged throughout
Speaker 2: the movie in different moments. And also just how you
Speaker 2: know she's she's punished for. She's not punished for having
Speaker 2: addiction issues, She's punished for getting caught having addiction issues,
Speaker 2: which feels very telling, like everyone is an open secret
Speaker 2: on this set that she's struggling with addiction and is
Speaker 2: doing drugs in her trailer, and I think her dealer
Speaker 2: is her body double, which is kind of funny. But
Speaker 2: it's only when she is publicly humiliated and almost dies
Speaker 2: that the consequence comes and that her life is like
Speaker 2: sort of irreversibly changed. And that is that's like not
Speaker 2: limited to entertainment, but I think is like really smartly
Speaker 2: said and how she's treated and spoken to by mostly
Speaker 2: men who are directing or in charge of her of
Speaker 2: like she's given a hand basically, which I don't know,
Speaker 2: like you feel whatever way you want about it. He
Speaker 2: seems like a decent guy. But the idea that like
Speaker 2: I just wonder, at what point is it like she's
Speaker 2: they need her to work, Like a lot of these
Speaker 2: like structures that are put in place seem like so
Speaker 2: that she can continue to work and create stuff to
Speaker 2: be consumed. And Suzanne does say repeatedly like she wants
Speaker 2: to be at work, she wants to be distracted, she
Speaker 2: wants to be doing things. But it's just I don't know,
Speaker 2: I think it does a good job without like bonking
Speaker 2: you over the head of about it. What a system
Speaker 2: that she's trapped in, and it makes sense that Suzanne
Speaker 2: wouldn't be super pushed back about it because it's all
Speaker 2: she knows. It's what she grew up around, is her
Speaker 2: mother being a functional addict working in entertainment. So it
Speaker 2: just like it. I don't know, I appreciated that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's very good at handling the idea that she's
Speaker 4: got a lot of power but also kind of none.
Speaker 3: But also still treated horror on set and exploited for
Speaker 3: her labor. I think it's Doris who points out at
Speaker 3: some point how badly actors are treated and how actresses
Speaker 3: have it even worse. And then she tells a story
Speaker 3: about how she had a phone meeting. I think it
Speaker 3: was a phone meeting with an executive.
Speaker 4: It was a what I think it was. I think
Speaker 4: it was in person.
Speaker 3: Well she says that he was on the toilet the
Speaker 3: whole time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean, because that's a a that was
Speaker 2: a Louis v. Meher thing, right, Yeah, yeah, I feel
Speaker 2: like that would have been in person.
Speaker 3: So she just in the bathroom with him, I don't
Speaker 3: I mean, I mean, either way, it's it's horrible. Yeah,
Speaker 3: but yeah, you see the ways in which Suzanne is mistreated,
Speaker 3: be rated, humiliated on set, and yeah, I feel like
Speaker 3: the general public has this idea that, oh, if you're
Speaker 3: in movies, people are laying out the red carpet for you.
Speaker 3: They you you're treated like royalty, And maybe some actors are,
Speaker 3: depending on the amount of like box office draw they have,
Speaker 3: but even then, like, there are so many people on
Speaker 3: a set with more power than an actor that often
Speaker 3: abused that power, and we've seen, we've heard so many
Speaker 3: stories of that.
Speaker 2: But I mean, I also crystill. You mentioned this earlier
Speaker 2: and I was thinking about it as well, But I'm
Speaker 2: so curious what you both think because we just covered
Speaker 2: Mommy Dearist on the podcast and the louis Villemare overt
Speaker 2: reference in There's I mean, there's so many similarities in
Speaker 2: these movies, but obviously their approach couldn't be more different.
Speaker 2: I think at least part of that is because you know,
Speaker 2: Carrie Fisher has explicitly said and so we have to
Speaker 2: respect that she said this is not her one to
Speaker 2: one experience, but that she Carrie Fisher has narrative control
Speaker 2: to some extent over the story. Where As we talked
Speaker 2: about in the Mommy Dearis episode, which you can just
Speaker 2: go listen to it's with be kind rewind but deals
Speaker 2: with a very similar in description character is like a
Speaker 2: famous actress such as let's say not Debbie Reynolds or
Speaker 2: overtly Joan Crawford, down to the example of Louis B.
Speaker 2: Mayer being abusive towards them when they were young actors
Speaker 2: and how they parent daughters specifically, like it's wild how
Speaker 2: similar it is, but that this story I think does
Speaker 2: a lot better of a job of contextualizing how that
Speaker 2: character got to the place because and maybe to the
Speaker 2: point where I could definitely see the argument that Doris's
Speaker 2: abusive behavior is excused more than some people would like,
Speaker 2: I mean, her admitting that she did give her child
Speaker 2: sleeping pills to go to sleep. Do I believe that
Speaker 2: Doris believes this was okay because it was over the counter, Sure,
Speaker 2: But I don't know. It's these movies came out, like
Speaker 2: I think, about ten years apart, and like I had
Speaker 2: to have my attention drawn to how similar the premises
Speaker 2: are because it's treated so differently where I.
Speaker 3: Mean, tone is so vastly different between the two movies.
Speaker 2: And there's no villain in Postcards from the Edge if
Speaker 2: anything like a villain would be like a cycle or
Speaker 2: a system, it wouldn't be one specific person, where obviously
Speaker 2: Mammy dearis Joan Crawford is the devil incarnate.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it's partially just that Mommy Dearus is
Speaker 4: kind of a much worse film in many ways. It's like,
Speaker 4: you know, nothing is particularly well written. I guess by
Speaker 4: the end of the movie in Mommy Dearris, they are
Speaker 4: trying to humanize her a bit, but it's just you've
Speaker 4: had such incredible, over the top camp by that point
Speaker 4: that it's like you kind of can't go there with
Speaker 4: that movie anymore, because you know, you've seen such extremes
Speaker 4: by that point, you've seen too much. Yeah, exactly. Whereas
Speaker 4: whereas in Postcards, you know, there's always nuance with these characters,
Speaker 4: and there's always push and pull and love and resentment,
Speaker 4: and yeah, it's just it's not a screaming, hysterical portrayal
Speaker 4: of anything. It's nuanced and funny and feels real.
Speaker 2: Especially when you think about how Carrie Fisher and her
Speaker 2: mother did very much want to, you know, make their
Speaker 2: relationship work, and what a deep love they shared, even
Speaker 2: though oh god, if no one has recently watched the
Speaker 2: Bright Lights documentary with the two of them sort of
Speaker 2: Beverly Hills, Great Gardening. It's like filmed towards the end
Speaker 2: of both of their lives. It came out in twenty sixteen,
Speaker 2: but it's so good. It's yeah, it's Debbie Reynolds and
Speaker 2: Carrie Fisher. They were like neighbors until the time of
Speaker 2: their death, and it's just them loving each other and
Speaker 2: being very dysfunctional.
Speaker 4: All right, they died. They died one day apart, right, It's.
Speaker 2: It makes me cry thinking about it, but yeah, I
Speaker 2: mean and also the just to close that Mammy Deiras loop,
Speaker 2: because I know we talked about this in the episode
Speaker 2: that Christina Crawford, who is you know, everyone involved in
Speaker 2: Mommy Darras is a polarizing figure in their own right,
Speaker 2: but that Christina Crawford kind of disowned that movie when
Speaker 2: it first came out because she had no authorial control
Speaker 2: in how her mother was presented in this big budget movie.
Speaker 2: Where I think that's like kind of Carrie Fisher's ultimate
Speaker 2: strength in her you know, both her position, but also
Speaker 2: like without her ability as a writer, this same premise,
Speaker 2: we know could have been taken to a pretty horrible extreme,
Speaker 2: but I don't know as a testament to her.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know, and she is a big proponent of
Speaker 3: the concept of tragedy plus time equals comedy and her
Speaker 3: comedic approach to so much of her writing, and yeah,
Speaker 3: her just sort of like self deprecating approach to her work.
Speaker 3: And we already talked about this a little bit, but
Speaker 3: I just really appreciate the ability to take a generally
Speaker 3: serious topic and apply a comedic slant or comedic perspective
Speaker 3: to it in a way that I think is still
Speaker 3: tasteful and not you know, like making light of something
Speaker 3: that should be taken seriously, but rather finding humor in
Speaker 3: a situation, or maybe even coping with something using humor,
Speaker 3: because as we said earlier, so much media about addiction,
Speaker 3: for example, is very tonally serious. If not try magity porn.
Speaker 3: And of course I understand approaching a serious topic with
Speaker 3: a serious tone, but there's also room for stories about
Speaker 3: something serious told with a more comedic tone, and that's
Speaker 3: how I approach writing that type of thing. And again,
Speaker 3: Carrie Fisher's ability to do that with nuance and grace
Speaker 3: while still being funny, I think is really well done.
Speaker 4: Yeah. It speaks to the way she was in her
Speaker 4: personal life as well, and how she never let her
Speaker 4: own struggles with addiction like be a shame for her
Speaker 4: or I'm sure she did privately, but she owned it
Speaker 4: so publicly that I think was very important for a
Speaker 4: lot of people. And she, you know, she talked about
Speaker 4: I was watching interviews she gave around this time talking
Speaker 4: about this movie, and she just talks about it all
Speaker 4: so matter of factly. And same with Richard Dreyfus. This
Speaker 4: movie started as like it was going to be a
Speaker 4: vehicle to talk about addiction, and it was going to
Speaker 4: be starring Richard Dreyfus because he'd also experienced that. And
Speaker 4: you know, she talks about it all just so matter
Speaker 4: of factly, and it's it's very destigmatizing, it's very powerful.
Speaker 4: And then you see it presented in this movie with
Speaker 4: a comedic edge as well, and I think that also
Speaker 4: has the exact same effect, which is just let's normalize
Speaker 4: talking about this. Sometimes it is funny.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's just one of one. Yeah, no one's doing
Speaker 2: what she's doing except this. Watching this movie and covering
Speaker 2: it does make me want to also cover heartburn, because
Speaker 2: I just associate her and Nora Efron so strongly as
Speaker 2: like confessional brunettes of this era. And I feel like
Speaker 2: there's like a fun conversation about that movie too, because
Speaker 2: she just killed Carl Bernstein. She just killed him. She
Speaker 2: killed them in public, and it's I think one of
Speaker 2: the most historic things that's ever been done.
Speaker 4: I've actually never seen heartburn.
Speaker 2: It's great.
Speaker 3: It's great.
Speaker 2: She just kills one of the president's men. Anyways, Yes,
Speaker 2: is there anything else that either of you want us
Speaker 2: to chat about? Not really, I'm feeling good. I'm feeling good.
Speaker 2: It definitely passes the Beachdel test about all sorts of things,
Speaker 2: obviously primarily between Doris and Suzanne, but also between Susanne
Speaker 2: and C. C. H. Pounder, Suzanne and Aretha, grandma and
Speaker 2: you know, daughter and granddaughter. There is This movie is
Speaker 2: unquestionably about women and about surviving your early days out
Speaker 2: of addiction and surviving your mother. So easy pass it
Speaker 2: is a very very white movie, it needs to be said.
Speaker 3: And so reading it on our nipple scale, where we
Speaker 3: rate the movie zero to five nipples based on examining
Speaker 3: it through an intersectional feminist lens all, go oh gosh,
Speaker 3: I don't know. Three four, three and a half, I
Speaker 3: don't know.
Speaker 2: I do.
Speaker 3: What I like about this movie is it's I think,
Speaker 3: more nuanced examination of a mother daughter relationship that feels authentic,
Speaker 3: even though, like I don't have the same backstory at
Speaker 3: all as the Suzanne character. I saw so many traces
Speaker 3: of the types of things they argue about in arguments
Speaker 3: I've had with my mother. Not to put my mom
Speaker 3: on blast here, but there was just so much that
Speaker 3: was familiar about maybe not the specifics, but of the
Speaker 3: essence of their arguments and resentments, but also their love
Speaker 3: and affection for each other. Yeah, so I guess because
Speaker 3: of that, let's go three and a half and I'm
Speaker 3: gonna get them all to Carrie Fisher. And I also
Speaker 3: want to shout out that she had said that when
Speaker 3: she was working as a script doctor, her goal was
Speaker 3: to make the women characters smarter and the love scenes better.
Speaker 2: So she did it.
Speaker 3: A champion for women love her across the board. So yeah,
Speaker 3: three and a half nipples all to Carrie Fisher.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go four. I'm going four. I'm going for it.
Speaker 2: I love this movie. There's only one Carrie Fisher. There
Speaker 2: are certainly things that are a product of it's time.
Speaker 2: It doesn't tackle absolutely everything that could, and you know,
Speaker 2: mainly it is a very white movie that said, I
Speaker 2: just think this, I don't know. The way that she
Speaker 2: writes relationships between women and between mothers and daughters is
Speaker 2: so specific and so cool, and I just I love
Speaker 2: But there is a world where Debbie Reynolds could have
Speaker 2: taken this story's existence very poorly. But there's also really
Speaker 2: sweet pictures of them at the premiere together, and I think,
Speaker 2: you know, Debbie Reynolds is like, all attention is good attention,
Speaker 2: all press is good press. She has survived so much
Speaker 2: worse than this, and I just really appreciate just Carrie
Speaker 2: Fisher in general, but Carrie Fisher and Debbie Reynolds like
Speaker 2: generosity with each other to sort things out often in public.
Speaker 3: I love it.
Speaker 2: So I'm going to give it four nipples. I'm going
Speaker 2: to give one to Carrie. I'm going to give one
Speaker 2: to C. H. Pounder, I'm going to give one to
Speaker 2: I guess SHIRLEYE. McLain, she deserves it, and then I'm
Speaker 2: going to give my last one to Oliver Platt because
Speaker 2: I just love to see a young Oliver Platt pop up.
Speaker 3: He is for me, He really is for you, Jamie, Crystal,
Speaker 3: how about you.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think I'll see your three and a half
Speaker 4: in your four and I think I might raise you
Speaker 4: four and a half.
Speaker 2: Nice.
Speaker 4: Nice, I'm going there. Yeah. I think it's a delightful,
Speaker 4: delightful movie, and for all of the reasons that you
Speaker 4: guys have already outlined. But yeah, what a great time
Speaker 4: spent watching all of these wonderful people do all of
Speaker 4: these wonderful things. I will give my four and a
Speaker 4: half nipples to all of the blanks that Meryl fires
Speaker 4: off at Dennis.
Speaker 3: Quaid and then she goes relax. They're just blanks speeds off.
Speaker 3: There's so much like peeling out in this movie.
Speaker 2: Really we used if we used to be a proper country.
Speaker 2: Any Meryl Street comedy performance is worth celebrating, truly, I
Speaker 2: know it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm I'm going to see Devil Wor's part of
Speaker 4: two tomorrow and I'm very prepared for it to be
Speaker 4: incredibly mid but i know I'm gonna just love watching her.
Speaker 2: It's worth it for her, It's always worth it for her.
Speaker 3: Wow. Well, Crystal, thank you so much for joining us
Speaker 3: for a fourth time, come back for a fifth and
Speaker 3: get your imaginary Bechdel Cast jacket.
Speaker 2: It's going to exist one that I we're working on it.
Speaker 3: We're working on it.
Speaker 2: We're yeah, they're handstitched. It takes a long time. It
Speaker 2: takes a long time.
Speaker 4: Yeah, thank you for having me. It's it's always such
Speaker 4: a treat. And yeah, if you're listening, please check out
Speaker 4: my podcast which is called camp Classics and it's out
Speaker 4: every two weeks and we discuss movies just like this one.
Speaker 2: Yay.
Speaker 3: Can people follow you on Instagram or anything like that, Yes.
Speaker 4: Camp Classics Podcast and Crystal will see you now on
Speaker 4: all fine social medias and all the unfine ones too.
Speaker 3: Which is most all of them, all of them. You
Speaker 3: can follow us also on bad bad social media platforms
Speaker 3: such as Instagram at Bechdel Cast. You can support us
Speaker 3: on Patreon aka are Matreon, where Jamie and I do
Speaker 3: two episodes every month based on a genius, brilliant, amazing theme.
Speaker 2: Often of your choice unless you misbehave and then it's
Speaker 2: of our choice. And that's just sort of how the
Speaker 2: Matreon works.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, and yeah, we put up polls all the
Speaker 3: time so you can pick which movies it's very fun
Speaker 3: and that's all for five dollars a month at patreon
Speaker 3: dot com slash Bechtel Cast.
Speaker 2: And with that, uh, why don't we how do we
Speaker 2: end this? Why don't we sing a long Shell Silverstein
Speaker 2: country song for some reason to close it out?
Speaker 3: Why the hellmu let's do it?
Speaker 2: Bye bye.
Speaker 3: Bye.
Speaker 2: The Bechdel Cast is a production of iHeartMedia, hosted and
Speaker 2: produced by Me, Jamie Loftus and.
Speaker 3: Me Kaitlyn Durrante. The podcast is also produced by Sophie Lichtermann.
Speaker 2: And edited by Caitlyn Durrante. Ever heard of Them?
Speaker 3: That's me and our logo and merch and all of
Speaker 3: our artwork in fact are designed by Jamie Loftus, Ever
Speaker 3: heard of her?
Speaker 2: Oh My God? And our theme song, by the way,
Speaker 2: was composed by Mike Kaplan with vocals by Katherine Voskrasinski
Speaker 2: Iconic and a special thanks to the one and only
Speaker 2: Aristotle Ascevedo.
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