Speaker 1: Hey, folks, it is Tuesday, June twenty third, and Nancy
Speaker 1: Guthrie died shortly after she was kidnapped. That is according
Speaker 1: to information from the Ransom Notes, information that has not
Speaker 1: been released to the public until now. And with that,
Speaker 1: welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ. Let me
Speaker 1: give the caveat. This is all according Robes to several
Speaker 1: media outlets coming from several media sources, excuse me, several
Speaker 1: law enforcement sources, and Robes some of these outlets also
Speaker 1: have seen the notes themselves. So this information we're getting now,
Speaker 1: Robes is pretty jarn.
Speaker 2: It's jarring, and it's legitimate, and it makes sense because
Speaker 2: if you go back and you start remembering how this
Speaker 2: all unfolded, there was a real urgency, I mean an
Speaker 2: immediate sense of urgency. We knew that Nancy Guthrie had medicine,
Speaker 2: that she needed life saving medicine, She had medice, and
Speaker 2: she needed to alleviate pain. And there was a real concern.
Speaker 2: Remember p mac County Sheriff saying we've got to find
Speaker 2: her in the next twenty four hours. It's crucial. And
Speaker 2: then all of a sudden it didn't feel as immediate.
Speaker 2: In the days that followed. It was still intense, it
Speaker 2: was still urgent, but there was a sense just hearing
Speaker 2: from the Guthrie family that there might have been some
Speaker 2: sort of a shift.
Speaker 3: And now this makes sense.
Speaker 1: This does help us piece together robes a lot of
Speaker 1: what we in the public were not aware of, but
Speaker 1: they certainly knew what was going on behind the scenes.
Speaker 1: Now we want to get you caught up here because
Speaker 1: there have been some competing headlines and some conflicting headlines
Speaker 1: and even some confusion about all these ransom notes that
Speaker 1: we'll get into. But the bottom line is we are
Speaker 1: getting information and details from these notes that we are
Speaker 1: seeing and hearing for the first time the claims now
Speaker 1: in the robes of confusion comes we remember that was
Speaker 1: confusion initially, ransom notes coming. TMZ seems to be getting
Speaker 1: a new ransom note every hour that they're explaining that
Speaker 1: they've gotten. And then there was another set of ransom
Speaker 1: notes that other outlets got, in particular a Tucson television station.
Speaker 1: So this is what we're talking about kind of competing
Speaker 1: claims right now about two different sets of notes. But
Speaker 1: let's start rolled to what we're talking about with the
Speaker 1: note at least that the media outlets got, in particular
Speaker 1: the Tucson television station.
Speaker 2: Yes, so there was a first note that they got
Speaker 2: pretty quickly on that demanded millions of dollars in ransom,
Speaker 2: and so there were instructions.
Speaker 3: They were very specific.
Speaker 2: And this is one that the FEDS did deem was
Speaker 2: they believed a credible ransom note from the kidnappers. But
Speaker 2: then this second note they got, that's the one we're
Speaker 2: talking about. This is the one that's making headlines, that
Speaker 2: said basically that Nancy Guthrie died shortly after she was abducted,
Speaker 2: and that the kidnappers didn't mean to kill her. So
Speaker 2: either she died in some way from the abduction itself
Speaker 2: or shortly thereafter, maybe because she didn't have her meds.
Speaker 2: But when they said they didn't mean to kill her,
Speaker 2: they didn't say they didn't kill her.
Speaker 3: I've only seen the phrase they didn't mean to kill her.
Speaker 2: So it still sounds like she died at their hands
Speaker 2: in some way, shape or form.
Speaker 1: And again, at this point we're left to try to
Speaker 1: piece together now ROMs with some of these messages what
Speaker 1: might have happened to her, because the bottom line is
Speaker 1: we still don't know. We still don't know where she is,
Speaker 1: who took her why, I guess is because of money.
Speaker 1: But this has been an incredible mystery. These notes add,
Speaker 1: they feel in some blanks roads, but they still continue
Speaker 1: to add to the mystery. And yes, the authorities, the
Speaker 1: federal government, the federal officials think these notes are real romes.
Speaker 1: This is the first again the family knew this a
Speaker 1: week after she disappeared. Yeah, we are now just hearing
Speaker 1: for the first time that they were told a week
Speaker 1: after she disappeared that she was dead in her note
Speaker 1: that the federal officials are saying they believe were real.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So, I mean, look, we now know that the
Speaker 2: family had some sense a small sense of closure, and
Speaker 2: certainly not the news they were hoping for. But you
Speaker 2: also understand the need to have her back with them,
Speaker 2: to be able to go through the process of burying her,
Speaker 2: of mourning her, of holding a service for her, and
Speaker 2: understanding what happened. Everyone wants to know what happened, why
Speaker 2: it happened, and who did it. So, yes, there's a
Speaker 2: need for justice, There's a need for a lot of things,
Speaker 2: but it is fascinating to know that within a week
Speaker 2: of her abduction, the Guthrie family knew that there was
Speaker 2: little to no chance of her coming back alive.
Speaker 1: And we all saw kind of the tone change. It
Speaker 1: was a tone change in the family. It was a
Speaker 1: tone change with the local officials out there who were
Speaker 1: giving out so much information initially and then just stopped
Speaker 1: and they said, Nope, we're only going to be doing
Speaker 1: a press conference if we feel we need to. There
Speaker 1: was an urgency that went away and rose. The Guthrie
Speaker 1: fan had put out I think at least one, maybe
Speaker 1: two messages on social media before they got this second note. Again,
Speaker 1: we didn't know at the time, but they got this
Speaker 1: second note that said that Nancy Guthrie was dead. And
Speaker 1: then on February seventh, Savannah Guthrie and our siblings went
Speaker 1: on and made this statement and wrote, now this makes
Speaker 1: a whole lot more sense.
Speaker 2: Yes, they said, we received your message, and we understand.
Speaker 2: We beg you now to return our mother to us
Speaker 2: so that we can celebrate with her.
Speaker 3: This is the only way we will have peace.
Speaker 2: This is very valuable to us, and we will pay
Speaker 2: I remember this one because it was such a shift
Speaker 2: and it sounded like, Okay, they're communicating in some other
Speaker 2: language about something we don't know about that they clearly
Speaker 2: understand and are trying to offer a response to. So
Speaker 2: now knowing that the message was that Nancy Guthrie had died,
Speaker 2: this what Savannah said and what they were asking for
Speaker 2: makes so much more sense.
Speaker 1: And they can't so Brokee, we as we say, we
Speaker 1: think about how impressed we were with Savannah Guthrie in
Speaker 1: particular and her whole family and how they kept it
Speaker 1: together and how she's gone back to work. Robes, we
Speaker 1: are hearing now that all this was going on, and
Speaker 1: a week after her mom disappeared, they might have had
Speaker 1: a little more understanding in Robes, I guess resigned to
Speaker 1: the fact that she was dead already. Yeah, that early
Speaker 1: on in this whole process, while the rest of us,
Speaker 1: the rest of the world hoping.
Speaker 3: That she might still be alive.
Speaker 2: Yet that's wild to me that they knew within pretty
Speaker 2: much a week, and we had a month and two
Speaker 2: months and we're over four months now and we're just
Speaker 2: now finding out. I also think it's interesting, look and
Speaker 2: it makes total sense that the FBI and certainly the
Speaker 2: Guthrie family would have asked as well that these media
Speaker 2: and specifically the Tucson television station asked them to keep
Speaker 2: all of that information private. Think about that an entire
Speaker 2: newsroom knew that the contents that that's second ransom note
Speaker 2: clearly stated that Nancy Guthrie was dead and it never
Speaker 2: once got out.
Speaker 1: And give them credit. I know media gets reputation, reporters
Speaker 1: just going after chasing a lead, chasing a headline, you
Speaker 1: want to get a scoop. But Robes, We've been a
Speaker 1: part of organizations that have done this over the years.
Speaker 1: This is one that they do take very seriously and
Speaker 1: take it as a public duty. And Robes, this is
Speaker 1: just being a good human.
Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely, you don't want to do anything to undermine
Speaker 2: the investigation. And again, yes, I think that's very fair
Speaker 2: to say. Most people would not assume. I think maybe
Speaker 2: they'd think the worst of journalists, investigative journalists trying to
Speaker 2: get the scoop, trying to get the lead, trying to
Speaker 2: be the first to report something.
Speaker 3: Look, I do think almost.
Speaker 2: The majority of journalists are good people who actually have
Speaker 2: a desire to inform and to help folks and to
Speaker 2: provide a service, and not to undermine an investigation or
Speaker 2: to do anything that could bring harm to someone. And
Speaker 2: so with that in mind, obviously they kept it to themselves.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, here we are. It was this June twenty
Speaker 1: twenty third. Yeah, they've been sitting on this since the
Speaker 1: first of February, So good on them for doing that.
Speaker 1: Now let's go to the other thing. The other part
Speaker 1: of the story, and the part that was making a
Speaker 1: lot of headlines yesterday, is that Harvey Levin over at
Speaker 1: TMZ was reporting something very different. He was talking about
Speaker 1: and almost knocking down some claims because for some reason,
Speaker 1: people were associating maybe what we're hearing about the notes
Speaker 1: from the Tucson TV stations to the notes that TMZ got.
Speaker 1: It sounds like robes to me, before we get into this,
Speaker 1: two totally different camps were sending notes to different media outlets,
Speaker 1: So which one's the real when which one's not?
Speaker 3: It sounds like from what see if you and I
Speaker 3: are on the same page.
Speaker 2: Because we haven't discussed this beforehand, but it sounded to
Speaker 2: me like the FEDS and the police are all saying
Speaker 2: that the notes that were given to the Tucson television
Speaker 2: station were from the kidnappers, were from the abductors.
Speaker 3: But it appears that.
Speaker 2: The notes that tm was receiving was from somebody associated
Speaker 2: with the kidnappers or who knew of the kidnapping. So
Speaker 2: it was someone with information who was close enough in
Speaker 2: this inner circle, if not a part of the kidnapping ring,
Speaker 2: but was trying to get information as to her whereabouts
Speaker 2: to TMZ but maybe wasn't in that inner circle, but
Speaker 2: had knowledge.
Speaker 1: Had knowledge, didn't seem to be a participant robe but
Speaker 1: this drove us crazy throughout. This was the one that
Speaker 1: was asking for one hundred thousand in bitcoin. This was
Speaker 1: the one who claimed to know where Nancy Guthrie was,
Speaker 1: to know where the kidnappers were, and that was pretty
Speaker 1: I mean, I know everybody looks out for themselves and whatnot,
Speaker 1: but that's pretty crappy to know to have the information
Speaker 1: that can give relief to this family. That was yes,
Speaker 1: so who knows?
Speaker 2: And that person who was writing kept saying that they
Speaker 2: were concerned that they would be arrested, that they would
Speaker 2: be charged with the kidnapping.
Speaker 3: That they would somehow be associated with the crime.
Speaker 2: And so because of that fear of that, in addition
Speaker 2: to retro u shin from the kidnappers themselves, he claimed,
Speaker 2: I say he but this person who was writing claimed
Speaker 2: that they needed this money to go underground, to go
Speaker 2: into hiding, because their life would be in peril if
Speaker 2: they gave this information.
Speaker 1: So Harvey Levin over at TMZ is essentially saying authorities
Speaker 1: thought those notes could have been authentic to so even
Speaker 1: if it was not a kidnapper, they believe they were
Speaker 1: talking to somebody who did possibly have information. But he
Speaker 1: said Ropes, the notes that came to him started was
Speaker 1: saying that Guthrie was scared but okay, did not mention
Speaker 1: that she had died. But there was a first and
Speaker 1: a second note that use similar language robes that suggests
Speaker 1: two very different things. The first one saying time is
Speaker 1: of the essence, that essentially suggests clock is ticking, maybe
Speaker 1: she's not doing well. We need to wrap this up.
Speaker 2: Yes, and that is in line with what you would
Speaker 2: expect for a kidnapping for ransom. That yes, they'd want
Speaker 2: to get in and out. They don't want to keep
Speaker 2: an eighty four year old woman and they just want
Speaker 2: their money. So yes, there was a sense of urgency.
Speaker 2: Time is of the essence. But in the second noe,
Speaker 2: this is where Harvey Levin and this does jibe exactly
Speaker 2: with what we are hearing from the FEDS with the kidnappers.
Speaker 2: Ransom notes time is no longer of the essence, and
Speaker 2: Harvey Levin points out, look, why would time no longer
Speaker 2: be of the essence? That would only indicate one thing
Speaker 2: that Nancy Guthrie was no longer alive.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so there is no hurry, And if you're trying
Speaker 1: to get money, you don't want the person you're trying
Speaker 1: to get money from to think that there's nothing to
Speaker 1: pay for anymore. So rope that kind of just common sensically.
Speaker 1: I guess we could go on board with that, but
Speaker 1: we don't know for sure. But ropes that time is
Speaker 1: no longer of the essence.
Speaker 2: What I'm curious about though, just obviously I don't know,
Speaker 2: and no one can get into the heads of the kidnappers.
Speaker 2: But if you're demanding money for someone to be returned alive,
Speaker 2: that person then dies and the family who you want
Speaker 2: wanted money from, who you know has money because you
Speaker 2: know who they are. If they're then offering money for
Speaker 2: just the whereabouts of the body, why would you not
Speaker 2: go ahead and do that? Now you can just totally
Speaker 2: back away. I know there could be forensic evidence, etc.
Speaker 2: But why not go ahead and give them that for
Speaker 2: the money.
Speaker 1: Who knows what's going on? Ay, And we talked about
Speaker 1: this before, Robes, and you were pointing out several pointed out,
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, they might be under threat of some kind.
Speaker 1: They might legitimately be fearful of their lives if they
Speaker 1: give this information up, or if they're how close in
Speaker 1: proximity are they to the kidnappers. Possibly, It's just it's
Speaker 1: a mystery that I guess some things got cleared up,
Speaker 1: but the mystery kind of grows grows here, Roes, because
Speaker 1: there was suspicion. I think someone did get arrested in
Speaker 1: southern California for a hoax.
Speaker 3: There was a fake note, yes, so.
Speaker 1: But to sit here, Roes, and to think all those
Speaker 1: notes that were going around were real, were real, all
Speaker 1: the I mean, Harvey said they got a dozen plus emails,
Speaker 1: that's right wild to think it's all and given all
Speaker 1: the modern technology, all the investigative techniques and how they're
Speaker 1: able to track folks down, to think we have dozens
Speaker 1: of correspondents from legit people involved in this and we
Speaker 1: can't find.
Speaker 2: Them, can't figure out who they are, where they are,
Speaker 2: and how many people are involved.
Speaker 1: Well, stay here, folks. TMZ had more to offer in
Speaker 1: this case, including an offer they made to pay the ransom.
Speaker 1: Why didn't they, Well, the FBI wasn't crazy about the idea.
Speaker 2: Stare Welcome back everyone to this episode of Amy and TJ,
Speaker 2: where we are getting the first real solid piece of
Speaker 2: information in the Nancy Guthrie abduction case that we've had
Speaker 2: since the beginning.
Speaker 3: And look, she went missing.
Speaker 2: February first, first, correct, Thus, she was last seen the
Speaker 2: night before when her son in law dropped her off
Speaker 2: after an evening meal with her daughter and poof. It
Speaker 2: was just and it still remains a mystery as to
Speaker 2: where she is and who abducted her. But we are
Speaker 2: learning that the FEDS and the Guthrie family, it appears,
Speaker 2: believe that Nancy Guthrie is dead and that they knew
Speaker 2: it a week into her abduction.
Speaker 1: That's I think that's a headline here for me for
Speaker 1: the story Robes that they were it was February seven
Speaker 1: she put that note out. Yeah, that was in the
Speaker 1: same week her mom disappeared, reported missing on February first.
Speaker 1: And as we were holding out hope, as people were
Speaker 1: holding out hope, and they that the tone changed roles
Speaker 1: that you're right when she said we will pay. It's
Speaker 1: important for us to come back and be able to
Speaker 1: celebrate her. We heard, yes, right, you could piece it
Speaker 1: together there, but to know that they got a note
Speaker 1: that said your mom is dead.
Speaker 2: That's tough, that's gutting, and look, TMZ went on to say,
Speaker 2: this was really interesting. They actually said that they want
Speaker 2: and wanted to do, probably still do and probably will
Speaker 2: do a documentary because this was of such an unusual
Speaker 2: twist to have TMZ and local television stations receiving ransom
Speaker 2: notes and this big mystery. So they were interested in
Speaker 2: doing a documentary and to do so, they were interested
Speaker 2: in paying this bitcoin to this guy who has been
Speaker 2: content guy whoever this person is who has been reaching
Speaker 2: out to them with these notes saying they know where
Speaker 2: Nancy Guthrie is, and they just thought, hey, let's check.
Speaker 2: We don't want to do anything to upset the investigation
Speaker 2: or to upset the Guthrie family, so they checked in
Speaker 2: first with the FBI.
Speaker 1: And according to TMZ, FBI just thought that was interesting,
Speaker 1: so really didn't give them guidance on what they should do. TMZ,
Speaker 1: for their part, roles, they said they that's paying and
Speaker 1: see what happens. What if they did? What if a
Speaker 1: news outlet paid the ransom and got the information that
Speaker 1: led to Nancy Guthrie? Holy hell? Could you imagine what
Speaker 1: that story would be?
Speaker 3: I can't And would that be okay?
Speaker 2: Would that be wrong? Would that be right? Would that
Speaker 2: be illegal? I don't even know.
Speaker 1: Uh, you know what. It's a private entity. Can they
Speaker 1: do what they want to do? Now? I guess the
Speaker 1: authorities could argue that they're in some way impeding the
Speaker 1: investigation or interfering with the investigation. Sure, you got to
Speaker 1: get the okay, but it's one of those things rope.
Speaker 1: Sometimes people pay ransoms and they do get what they
Speaker 1: pay the ransom for. And that might have been one
Speaker 1: of those cases. But to think the what ifs? Right,
Speaker 1: if that many months ago, if that long ago, paying
Speaker 1: fifteen it was initially fifty thousand in bitcoin and it
Speaker 1: went up to one hundred.
Speaker 3: One hundred thousand or something like.
Speaker 1: That happens if you pay?
Speaker 3: Who knows.
Speaker 1: That's just an interesting fact in a detail there. But
Speaker 1: they offered. FBI didn't give them an okay, and they
Speaker 1: said they've now he used the word the FBI is
Speaker 1: now ghosts ghosting us.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he said that the FBI, and it was funny
Speaker 2: though he was trying not to upset them. He said,
Speaker 2: but we believe that they still are actively investigating. They
Speaker 2: want to see this come to a closure. They want
Speaker 2: to see answers for the Guthrie family. But yeah, he said,
Speaker 2: they've called them at least a dozen times or a
Speaker 2: half a dozen times. I don't know what the number was,
Speaker 2: he said, but multiple times. And the FBI is now
Speaker 2: no longer returning their phone calls. And he said beforehand
Speaker 2: they were returning their phone calls immediately.
Speaker 1: He should just call Cash Battel. Cash Hotel is clearly
Speaker 1: interested in this case.
Speaker 2: He should just slide into Cash Betel's DMS. I bet
Speaker 2: you that would work.
Speaker 1: Okay, you said that kind of jokingly, but yeah, I
Speaker 1: think it might. But really, this is I mean, give
Speaker 1: them some guy. I mean, TMZ has been central and
Speaker 1: actually been a good partner when you argue in this
Speaker 1: investigation with the FBI. They you could argue even more
Speaker 1: so than a CNN or a Tucson TV station might
Speaker 1: have had the wherewithal to say, the hell with it,
Speaker 1: We're gonna put everything we got out there and wouldn't
Speaker 1: give a damn given them credit on this one.
Speaker 2: I certainly will and they obviously look, the Guthrie family
Speaker 2: knows more than anyone now, Savannah being in the media
Speaker 2: and now being a victim to this entire situation. It's
Speaker 2: important to have these types of stories stay headline, stay
Speaker 2: in the headlines, because that gets people talking, that gets
Speaker 2: people calling in tips, and that could lead eventually to them.
Speaker 3: Finding their mothers.
Speaker 2: So I'm sure Savannah is grateful to the coverage and
Speaker 2: TMZ was respectful. Yes they were breaking news, and yes
Speaker 2: they were following up on tips, but they were keeping
Speaker 2: this story alive in a lot of ways.
Speaker 1: And continue to do so now. So yes, we haven't
Speaker 1: had significant we haven't had major update to at least
Speaker 1: the investigation, but this is a significant update for the
Speaker 1: public at least in knowing what was going on and
Speaker 1: what has been going on in the search for Nancy Guthrie,
Speaker 1: a case that they do tell us remains open than
Speaker 1: one they are investigating the one to give you those
Speaker 1: critical updates, But we always appreciate you spending some time
Speaker 1: with us. My dear Amy Robot com T J. Holmes
Speaker 1: will talk soon