1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:04,640 Speaker 1: Ridiculous Crime is a production of I Heart Radio. He yo, 2 00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:09,280 Speaker 1: it's Elizabeth nothing much, um, you know it's ridiculous. Oh man, 3 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:11,000 Speaker 1: So I was going through the holidays and I wanted 4 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:13,800 Speaker 1: to tell you about this. They got this holiday pastry 5 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:16,599 Speaker 1: that I was like, oh it is porvoo. Now this 6 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:20,319 Speaker 1: holiday pastry. It's a French Canadian thing. It's called the 7 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 1: PETI my French may be messing that up, but what 8 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:27,680 Speaker 1: that means is the sister's fart. Now the sisters fart. 9 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 1: It has an interesting story. The people of Quebec, the 10 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:35,080 Speaker 1: keba Qua, they baked this like it's like a cinnamon roll, right, 11 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:38,239 Speaker 1: They baked this thing around the holidays, and it is 12 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:41,720 Speaker 1: a pastry, glazed, butter, cinnamon, the whole bit. But the 13 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:45,919 Speaker 1: name comes from nuns, like that's the sister. So the 14 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:50,680 Speaker 1: nuns were apparently having a you know, just none time 15 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:53,760 Speaker 1: around the abbey and they're just like doing their bit, 16 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:55,680 Speaker 1: and one of them was in the kitchen working on 17 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:58,200 Speaker 1: some dough. Another one was working doing whatever she was doing, 18 00:00:58,200 --> 00:00:59,880 Speaker 1: cutting flowers. Will say it. All of a sudden she 19 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:03,640 Speaker 1: cut some cheese and was like all the other nun 20 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:06,640 Speaker 1: started laughing, and it became this hysterical wave and the 21 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:09,880 Speaker 1: one who was sitting there baking kicked some dough into 22 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:12,320 Speaker 1: the hot oil she had going and it started cooking 23 00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:15,440 Speaker 1: and she's like oh and then but she fished it 24 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:16,720 Speaker 1: out and she's like, what can I do? When she 25 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:19,120 Speaker 1: decided to put some like you know, sugar on it 26 00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:22,119 Speaker 1: in some cinnamon, was like, oh, criming dude, that's good. 27 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:24,240 Speaker 1: And then all of a sudden, boom, we have a 28 00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:28,120 Speaker 1: new pastry. The nuns fart or rather the sister's fart 29 00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:31,320 Speaker 1: in trench. Yeah, I thought you'd like that. Some products 30 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:34,679 Speaker 1: and pastry cutting up in the kitchen with like a 31 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:43,319 Speaker 1: huge vat of boiling oil. That is ridiculous, like baking. 32 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:46,039 Speaker 1: Do you know what else is ridiculous? No? Do you 33 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 1: want to tell me? Sharing with me? The Ruthless Gang 34 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 1: of Women out to rob London Blind? Oh? I love this. 35 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:15,119 Speaker 1: This is Ridiculous Crime, a podcast about absurd and outrageous 36 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:19,000 Speaker 1: caper's HAIs and cons. It's always murder free and one 37 00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 1: ridiculous zaren. Have you ever read one thousand and one Nights? Yeah? Yeah. 38 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:30,760 Speaker 1: It's a collection of Middle Eastern folk tales. It's framed 39 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 1: as being told by Shaherazad, and she's telling them as 40 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:36,840 Speaker 1: cliffhangers to a king who intends to kill her in 41 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 1: the morning, and she's got to keep him so, like, 42 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:43,480 Speaker 1: you know, because the king's wife was unfaithful, he didn't 43 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 1: trust any woman ever again, he gets rid of her 44 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:48,440 Speaker 1: and then he keeps marrying these new gals and offering 45 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:52,239 Speaker 1: him the next morning. He's running out of brutal child story. 46 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:54,720 Speaker 1: I remember hearing that being like, wow, man are messed up. 47 00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:59,800 Speaker 1: So he's running out of brides and then enter Saherzad. 48 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:04,280 Speaker 1: She's smart. She tells really engaging tales every evening, and 49 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:07,400 Speaker 1: she leaves him wanting more and that prevents her death. 50 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 1: Like the ultimately it's a beautiful cliffhanger because she herself 51 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:13,440 Speaker 1: is both hanging on the cliff of the story. So 52 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:16,120 Speaker 1: she does is for a thousand and one nights, and 53 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:19,280 Speaker 1: then she winds up being pardoned by him because he realizes, like, 54 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:21,680 Speaker 1: you know, you're not so bad after all. A clever 55 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:25,480 Speaker 1: woman outsmarts the emotional and bitter man to survive. So 56 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:28,280 Speaker 1: one of the stories in the collection is that of 57 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:33,320 Speaker 1: Ali Baba and the forty and we've seen this throughout 58 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:39,400 Speaker 1: culture that exactly so Ali Baba, good dude, totally broke. 59 00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:42,320 Speaker 1: He finds the thieves den. He's able to gain entry 60 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:48,040 Speaker 1: by using the magical incantation Open Sesame, and the thieves 61 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:50,000 Speaker 1: find out that he got into the den. They try 62 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:52,640 Speaker 1: and kill him his son like. He gets help from 63 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:55,840 Speaker 1: his like servant slash slave girl son falls in love 64 00:03:55,920 --> 00:03:59,440 Speaker 1: with her Mary's or whatever. All's well. Ali Baba keeps 65 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:02,440 Speaker 1: the secret of the treasures of girls in love always. 66 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:05,600 Speaker 1: So why am I telling you this? Because you just 67 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:08,800 Speaker 1: love slave girls. I just going to keep going back 68 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:12,600 Speaker 1: to things I used to teach in world literature. So, um, 69 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:15,320 Speaker 1: forty thieves. That's a lot of thieves. It's just the 70 00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:18,560 Speaker 1: right amount. That's like, that's forty head of thieves. I'm 71 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:21,679 Speaker 1: going to tell you a story today, a legend about 72 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:24,159 Speaker 1: a very large group of thieves. I love legends and 73 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:27,880 Speaker 1: I loves this should be great. They operated with precision, 74 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:32,080 Speaker 1: they lived by strict codes, they were feared and revered, 75 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:35,599 Speaker 1: and they were women. Yes, my kind of thieves. They 76 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:38,640 Speaker 1: were often referred to at the time as the forty Thieves, 77 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:42,159 Speaker 1: but most knew them then and continue to refer to 78 00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:49,000 Speaker 1: them now as the forty elephants. So today, I'm going 79 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:54,400 Speaker 1: to weave a tale for you, like a modern Shaherazad. Well, 80 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:57,279 Speaker 1: we'll pretend that you've been burned by bad hosts in 81 00:04:57,320 --> 00:05:00,080 Speaker 1: the past. You don't trust a co host, Yes, and 82 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:02,680 Speaker 1: you figure like you're gonna let me run one act 83 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 1: of an episode and then fire me. Yeah, this is 84 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 1: your one chance. I'm going to tell you a story 85 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:10,280 Speaker 1: so engaging that you'll want to let me keep my 86 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:12,840 Speaker 1: job by the time this whole thing is over. Well, So, 87 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:22,840 Speaker 1: legend of the forty Elephants, Why Elephants? Why? Why not? Yeah, well, 88 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:26,920 Speaker 1: that's true. The gang was established in the eighteen seventies 89 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 1: and um some say though that it was even before them, 90 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:33,600 Speaker 1: that there are there claims that there are iterations of 91 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:36,080 Speaker 1: this all the way back to the late seventeen hundreds, 92 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:41,159 Speaker 1: which would make it older than the Sicilian Mafia. Yes, yes, 93 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:46,360 Speaker 1: so the Forty Elephants female headed, all female gang based 94 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:52,159 Speaker 1: in Southwark, London. It looks like Southwark. Oh okay, I 95 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 1: was wondering because you made a weird sound there in 96 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:56,479 Speaker 1: the middle of what should have been I'm trying to 97 00:05:56,600 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 1: not like, like incur the ire of all of our 98 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:05,880 Speaker 1: appreciate that it counteracts what I do. Yeah, Southwark, Suffo London. 99 00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:10,280 Speaker 1: So they operated out of London's Elephant and Castle district. 100 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 1: We've seen that on the underground. Um. The name of 101 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:15,200 Speaker 1: the district comes from the name of a pub at 102 00:06:15,200 --> 00:06:19,560 Speaker 1: the major crossroads, the Elephant and Castle, and that location 103 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:23,480 Speaker 1: was originally a blacksmith and a cutler, like a blacksmith 104 00:06:23,520 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 1: and cutler making cutler, so that's the name. So the 105 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 1: crest for the Trade Union of Cutlers had an elephant 106 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:38,599 Speaker 1: on it and then it looked like it had a 107 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:42,520 Speaker 1: castle on its back. Um. The castle is likely what's 108 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:46,080 Speaker 1: called a howdah, which is a saddle seat. Yeah, but 109 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:48,000 Speaker 1: so it looked like an elephant in the castle and 110 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:51,479 Speaker 1: that's why then when it became a pub Elephant and Castle, 111 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:54,560 Speaker 1: because the crest was making up there and then a 112 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:56,640 Speaker 1: lot of people just referred to it as the Elephant. 113 00:06:57,360 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 1: So that's how we get the name the forty Elephants. Um. 114 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:02,919 Speaker 1: The Elephant and Castle pub was pretty much headquarters for 115 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 1: the forty Elephant Gang, that's the name. Um. There were 116 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:09,760 Speaker 1: actually about forty women. So at this point is it 117 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:12,640 Speaker 1: a nice place or is it more of like a 118 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:16,160 Speaker 1: thieves den. It's a thieves dead. Okay, yeah, there's about 119 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:19,600 Speaker 1: forty members. Um the number got as high as like 120 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:24,280 Speaker 1: into the seventies and it's peak. They always and it's like, 121 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:26,680 Speaker 1: well the forty thieves, Ali Baba and the forty thieves. 122 00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:29,119 Speaker 1: So they go back to That's why I talked about 123 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 1: right right right, I'm over here trying to inject the Bible. 124 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:34,440 Speaker 1: I don't know what's wrong with it. You're always doing that. Um. 125 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:38,520 Speaker 1: So the forty Elephants, as everyone knew it, was started 126 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 1: and led by a woman named Mary Carr. Mary had 127 00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:44,560 Speaker 1: a criminal pedigree. Her dad was John Carr, who was 128 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:47,440 Speaker 1: a really well known thief and forger, so you know 129 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 1: runs in the fan. She is arrested for the first 130 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:56,600 Speaker 1: time for theft when she was fourteen years old one. 131 00:07:56,960 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 1: She had the whole forty Elephants thing cooking along there. 132 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:02,600 Speaker 1: Good to go. Let's take a moment and reflect on 133 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:05,760 Speaker 1: the living conditions. I was wondering where we are in London. 134 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:09,880 Speaker 1: It's horrible. It's horrible, especially for women. So like if 135 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:12,200 Speaker 1: you're not married, you have to be like a housemaid 136 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:14,880 Speaker 1: or a governess or maybe like a nun or something. 137 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:18,840 Speaker 1: If you're a widow, or like if you get deserted 138 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:22,600 Speaker 1: by your husband. Will a lot of them become prostitutes? 139 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:25,680 Speaker 1: You know, it's sort of like all you can do 140 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:28,840 Speaker 1: poor house in some cases, but um, I mean so 141 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:32,960 Speaker 1: in these economically stressed areas that they're very, very limited 142 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:36,760 Speaker 1: options for these women. Mary Carr wants more for the 143 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:39,360 Speaker 1: women in her neighborhood, and she offers them that with 144 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 1: gang membership could answer Mary like, let's think bigger. Look, 145 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:46,200 Speaker 1: this is what they do when they go to war. 146 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:49,559 Speaker 1: We're going to go to war from inside. Like most 147 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:52,600 Speaker 1: of the members of the gang did prison time at 148 00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:55,240 Speaker 1: some point or another. Um, but they felt like that 149 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:58,160 Speaker 1: was a risk worth taking because like, you know, it's 150 00:08:58,160 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 1: either that or starved to death. Yeah, I mean you're 151 00:08:59,840 --> 00:09:03,600 Speaker 1: risk living in conditions so brutal, like how would you 152 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:07,000 Speaker 1: not turn to well and you'll hear what they you know, 153 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 1: it was a pretty good life that they could have. 154 00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:12,199 Speaker 1: So a retired gang member was quoted as saying, if 155 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:14,360 Speaker 1: you've got to be crooked, it's not a bad life. 156 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:19,760 Speaker 1: So becount donna have to break the law one way 157 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:21,640 Speaker 1: or another. This is probably the best way. Can people 158 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:23,319 Speaker 1: tell you, Oh, you'll love to loom. You got to 159 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:25,480 Speaker 1: go to Mexico and you listen to them and she says, 160 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:28,280 Speaker 1: you have crime. I'm listening to both going to to 161 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:31,520 Speaker 1: loom and I'm going into crime. In nineteen hundred, there 162 00:09:31,559 --> 00:09:33,960 Speaker 1: was a police bullet that was put out identifying Mary 163 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:36,600 Speaker 1: Carr as one of the most dangerous women in London 164 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:39,599 Speaker 1: and queen. They called her Queen of the forty Thieves, 165 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:43,160 Speaker 1: so it was already out there. She ran forty elephants 166 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 1: the forty Elephants like a boss. But she also changed 167 00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:49,520 Speaker 1: the way that women were seen and valued at the time. 168 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:53,679 Speaker 1: So she crafted. She came up with this phrase and 169 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:58,720 Speaker 1: this whole term oysters. Oysters someone who steals stuff and 170 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 1: sells it. You um like it was lifted like a 171 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:05,200 Speaker 1: thief and offense at the same time. So becoming a 172 00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:08,120 Speaker 1: hoister was an option for women who wanted more than 173 00:10:08,160 --> 00:10:12,280 Speaker 1: the society would allow them at the time. They developed skills, 174 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:15,800 Speaker 1: they made money, they chose their own fates. They redefined 175 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:19,000 Speaker 1: their roles because they became totally independent and they didn't 176 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:21,000 Speaker 1: rely on a husband or father to take care of 177 00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:25,280 Speaker 1: the true outlaws. Yes so, and oysters were seen as 178 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:28,520 Speaker 1: like more professional and refined than basic just shoplifting. They're 179 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:31,440 Speaker 1: not pickpockets. And these are people who are going after 180 00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:33,319 Speaker 1: people who are wealthy and this is not hurting them 181 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:35,160 Speaker 1: to have to be taking and it was really refined. 182 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:37,680 Speaker 1: They were super widely. They had all these methods to 183 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:41,360 Speaker 1: avoid capture. They would use all these aliases. But they 184 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:45,600 Speaker 1: also had really beautiful outfits and stuff. So they're working 185 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:48,280 Speaker 1: class women who gained entry into a world that would 186 00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:52,440 Speaker 1: be otherwise inaccessible to them. And because they you know, 187 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:55,360 Speaker 1: dressed the part and they had all this training, they 188 00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:58,679 Speaker 1: were able to peruse stores with ease because no one 189 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 1: questioned them. It looked like they had cash to spend. 190 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:03,240 Speaker 1: They look like they're in the right space. Hoisting was 191 00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:07,080 Speaker 1: like the prime crime for this game. Mary also coached 192 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:10,920 Speaker 1: gang members on the art of seduction because they would 193 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:14,240 Speaker 1: blackmail rich and powerful men. So they just like you know, 194 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:17,240 Speaker 1: do like the honey trap ida every they go, get 195 00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:19,320 Speaker 1: alone with them, get them into a compromising position. Someone 196 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:22,520 Speaker 1: else comes into witnesses yes, and then they would use 197 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:25,880 Speaker 1: that when they needed to call in favors to avoid convictions. 198 00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:28,360 Speaker 1: So they weren't really getting money for the judges and 199 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:31,800 Speaker 1: people who have power in this position. Yes, she Mary 200 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:35,040 Speaker 1: Carr also helped these women get hired as maids in 201 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:38,320 Speaker 1: wealthy homes so that they didn't steal from the home. No, no, 202 00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:40,160 Speaker 1: but they had access and they knew and they could listen, 203 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:43,400 Speaker 1: and they could get access to like correspondence, so they 204 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:47,120 Speaker 1: could forge. They could forge reference. The signature looked like, well, yeah, 205 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:49,079 Speaker 1: you could forge a reference from the lady at the house, 206 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:51,200 Speaker 1: so that if you say, you know, oh, so and 207 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:53,720 Speaker 1: so referred me to, you can get the actual letter 208 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:56,760 Speaker 1: head they need. That's brilliant. Um. And so so you know, 209 00:11:56,800 --> 00:11:58,960 Speaker 1: got someone vouching for you if you want to be 210 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:04,400 Speaker 1: another they the lunches, So hoisting was done mostly at 211 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:07,559 Speaker 1: these department stores. That's like the number one target. Um. 212 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:09,760 Speaker 1: It was pretty easy for them to pull this sort 213 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:12,680 Speaker 1: of theft off at the time because no one would 214 00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 1: invade a gentlewoman's space, so like they would given be 215 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:20,680 Speaker 1: given so much privacy and that was like the biggest 216 00:12:20,679 --> 00:12:23,320 Speaker 1: sign of respect. So they would be able to gather 217 00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:24,920 Speaker 1: up a bunch of stuff and I'm going to try 218 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:29,800 Speaker 1: this on and like' and they had this really voluminous attack. 219 00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:31,959 Speaker 1: They could talk in a lot, they had a lot 220 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:35,040 Speaker 1: of secret spots sewn in and then they and but 221 00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:37,640 Speaker 1: just by the nature the bustles and all that, like 222 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:41,160 Speaker 1: big hipped dresses, right, so no one's going to be like, Okay, 223 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:42,720 Speaker 1: you've carried a bunch of stuff you want to go 224 00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:44,360 Speaker 1: try on and like do you need help with that? 225 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:47,200 Speaker 1: And I think no, no, I'm going to do this. Um. 226 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:50,079 Speaker 1: They had a lot of weapons sewn into their clothes, 227 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:53,480 Speaker 1: like they got into a spot. They got so they 228 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:55,600 Speaker 1: had all these like you know this crazy gadgets in 229 00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:59,160 Speaker 1: the dresses. They dressed like rich ladies. They got treated 230 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:04,920 Speaker 1: like rich lady. Employees set exactly. Employees catered to their 231 00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:07,800 Speaker 1: whims so they could just start like order go get 232 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:10,600 Speaker 1: me you know, cup of tea or whatever, and like go, yes, mom, 233 00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:12,680 Speaker 1: and then I'll give you a carriage. Yeah. And it 234 00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:15,120 Speaker 1: was just like the more you order them around, like 235 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:19,440 Speaker 1: then the more realistic these women seemed. Um. They had 236 00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:22,000 Speaker 1: a really strict rule. Forty elephants had a strict rule 237 00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:25,080 Speaker 1: about ill gotten goods. No one was allowed to wear 238 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:29,679 Speaker 1: or use anything they stole. Oh that's really they had 239 00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:32,160 Speaker 1: to you they if they wanted to buy something, they 240 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:34,439 Speaker 1: had to use the money that they made from reselling 241 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:39,280 Speaker 1: the stuff to make their legitimate purchase. Purchases. They didn't 242 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:41,360 Speaker 1: want anything to be able to be traced directly back 243 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:43,120 Speaker 1: to them. Yeah, so they went out and they bought 244 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:45,640 Speaker 1: luxury items that they wanted and they wore them with 245 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:49,439 Speaker 1: confidence because they had their receipts. Um it also let 246 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:51,760 Speaker 1: them build a rapport with the shop employees and gave 247 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:55,520 Speaker 1: them legitimacy. Yeah. So they're flipping all these goods, but 248 00:13:55,559 --> 00:13:57,800 Speaker 1: they come in they've got real money and they're just 249 00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:03,199 Speaker 1: throwing it around. Real money spends exactly a London detective 250 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:06,800 Speaker 1: set of their techniques quote. Their methods were so remarkable 251 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:09,440 Speaker 1: that they had never been seen to take any goods 252 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:12,079 Speaker 1: and none of the taken property had ever been recovered, 253 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:15,360 Speaker 1: so they're just smooth. It's like after they're gone then 254 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 1: people realize, wait, they someone took that. Um. They had 255 00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:22,320 Speaker 1: all these fake ledgers that they would come up with. 256 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:25,440 Speaker 1: There was a gang member named Ada McDonald. She had 257 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:27,720 Speaker 1: her house raided by the cops. They were looking for 258 00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:31,080 Speaker 1: all the stolen merchandise, and she had lots of stolen 259 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:34,320 Speaker 1: merchandise in her house, but she also had ledgers and 260 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:38,480 Speaker 1: doctored receipts to go with everything. So everything was on 261 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:42,320 Speaker 1: the book. So if even if you become a sweat. Yeah. 262 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 1: So the police couldn't press charges. Everything looked legit, and 263 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:50,880 Speaker 1: she's got the shopkeepers totally. Yeah, so I buy these things. 264 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:54,760 Speaker 1: Yeah So Mary Carr she ran the Forty Thieves almost 265 00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:58,640 Speaker 1: until her death in Um. But she did choose an 266 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:03,120 Speaker 1: air because she's queen. The Victorian Age is coming to 267 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:06,600 Speaker 1: a close. World War One is looming ahead. Mary knows, 268 00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:08,800 Speaker 1: like I'm getting up there. I have to make a 269 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:13,440 Speaker 1: succession plan. So in nineteen sixteen she passed the power 270 00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 1: to a new Queen of the Forty Elephants. Mary new 271 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:19,080 Speaker 1: her time was running out and the gang needed a 272 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:21,920 Speaker 1: new visionary, someone who could adjusted the new times. You 273 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:27,040 Speaker 1: got radio coming. So, like Mary, she represents the old 274 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:31,840 Speaker 1: guard and the traditional ways, and then she brings on 275 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:34,560 Speaker 1: this new upstart who's going to bring the gang into 276 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:38,360 Speaker 1: the jazz age with a bang. The new Queen of 277 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:42,360 Speaker 1: the Realm was a woman named Diamond Dallas. Oh my god, 278 00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:45,480 Speaker 1: I love that nickname. When we come back from this break, 279 00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:49,120 Speaker 1: I'll tell you all about how Diamond Dallas took the 280 00:15:49,160 --> 00:16:12,240 Speaker 1: Forty Thieves to a new era. All right, Zaren, we're 281 00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:16,280 Speaker 1: back when we left off, Mary Carr of the Queen 282 00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:19,600 Speaker 1: of the forty Elephants had passed control of the forty 283 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:23,760 Speaker 1: Elephants to a woman named Alice Diamond. Alice. Oh so 284 00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:26,640 Speaker 1: it literally was her name to Diamond Alice is right 285 00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:29,920 Speaker 1: and she so she was known, thanks to the police 286 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:33,440 Speaker 1: as either Diamond Alice or Diamond Annie. You see it 287 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:35,360 Speaker 1: two different ways in all the work. But her name, 288 00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:37,960 Speaker 1: her real name is Alice Diamond. But she's like Diamond 289 00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:40,200 Speaker 1: Alas or Diamond Annie. I don't know why they call 290 00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:42,760 Speaker 1: her Annie, but it sounds better. I think like John 291 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:44,680 Speaker 1: or Jack, which just becomes a face because it's a 292 00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:48,120 Speaker 1: name for Yeah. So it's Alice. She's only twenty years 293 00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:51,000 Speaker 1: old when she becomes Queen of the forty Elephants. So 294 00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:55,120 Speaker 1: she's good. Then she's a real good. She grew up 295 00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:59,120 Speaker 1: in a workhouse, a poorhouse. Interestingly enough, someone else who 296 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:01,840 Speaker 1: has also appeared on this podcast was raised in the 297 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:05,600 Speaker 1: very same workhouse as Alice. Can you guess who it was? 298 00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:10,520 Speaker 1: Late eighteen hundreds, early nine hundreds, London. Uh, it wouldn't 299 00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:16,200 Speaker 1: be fancy pants, um the you know, it would be 300 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:21,399 Speaker 1: pretty fans bandit. They're New York, so who is in? 301 00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:24,920 Speaker 1: It's not going to be glass Eye. He wouldn't cross 302 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:29,440 Speaker 1: paths with them. It's Charlie Chaplin, whoa I would not 303 00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:36,040 Speaker 1: have gone there. So she comes from this big family. 304 00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:39,879 Speaker 1: She's one of seven kids. Her younger sister, Louisa, also 305 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:42,919 Speaker 1: joins the forty Elephants. She has a brother named Tommy 306 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:45,680 Speaker 1: who's a member of the Elephant and Castle Mob, which 307 00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:51,000 Speaker 1: is like the boys gang, like a Jewish immigrant enclave 308 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:54,040 Speaker 1: in the poorhouse, in the poorhouse. And then so she's 309 00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:56,800 Speaker 1: like seen, like have to come all the way up. Yes, 310 00:17:56,880 --> 00:17:59,800 Speaker 1: she's seen a lot. Yeah, and her family was like 311 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:04,240 Speaker 1: deep into crime. They were all crimers. It makes sense, Um, 312 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:06,760 Speaker 1: they didn't have enough money to house and feed themselves 313 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:09,679 Speaker 1: and that put them in the poorhouse. But that workhouse. 314 00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:12,400 Speaker 1: They thing is with the workhouse. It keeps people alive, 315 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:14,720 Speaker 1: but it doesn't let them save and grow. It just 316 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:21,240 Speaker 1: perpetuates crime exactly. So Alice is like this natural choice 317 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:24,400 Speaker 1: for Queen of the forty Elephants. She's five ft nine, 318 00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:27,840 Speaker 1: which was unusually tall at the time. It's like not 319 00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:31,080 Speaker 1: wild now, I mean I'm five nine, but like at 320 00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:33,280 Speaker 1: the time in London the average height for a man 321 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:38,880 Speaker 1: was five ft six. Yeah, So she's really like standing out. 322 00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:42,640 Speaker 1: I would I would have placed in taller than that. Well, 323 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:45,480 Speaker 1: and she's a bit of a bruiser. She the first 324 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:49,560 Speaker 1: time she was arrested, you listen. So the first time 325 00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:52,760 Speaker 1: she's arrested as a teen, it took three policemen to 326 00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:56,520 Speaker 1: take her in. And she loved this reputation that she 327 00:18:56,640 --> 00:18:59,000 Speaker 1: was building of, just like you got to come at her. 328 00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:04,080 Speaker 1: Much like another favorite of ours, Willie Carter. Sharp Alice 329 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:09,199 Speaker 1: loved her namesake Diamonds send her name so um to 330 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:12,040 Speaker 1: add to her legend. She wore all these diamond rings 331 00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:17,160 Speaker 1: as like basically brass knuckles as knuckle dusters, so she 332 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:20,359 Speaker 1: could like inflict maximum damage when she was tuned in 333 00:19:20,359 --> 00:19:23,960 Speaker 1: someone and they look good, they look exactly. And so 334 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:26,480 Speaker 1: that's when the police started calling her like Diamond Alice 335 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:29,560 Speaker 1: or Diamond and they said she had quote a punch 336 00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:32,760 Speaker 1: to be reckoned with. So here's this teenager gets pinched. 337 00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:35,200 Speaker 1: She just starts throwing down to the cops, three of them, 338 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:41,879 Speaker 1: you exactly. On one occasion, she gets arrested and she 339 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:45,600 Speaker 1: goes before the magistrate, and the magistrate asks her, like, 340 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:48,280 Speaker 1: you know, what's with your violent treatment of the police, 341 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:54,040 Speaker 1: who like why why do you hate us? Why? This 342 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:57,119 Speaker 1: is what she says. Quote. Police forces are set up 343 00:19:57,119 --> 00:19:59,520 Speaker 1: by governments to stop others getting a share of what 344 00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:04,439 Speaker 1: they've got. Oh yeah, she's it wasn't like try me, 345 00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:09,480 Speaker 1: like like she was like getting political or an unfair state. 346 00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:14,080 Speaker 1: And she's like a black Breton, so it's like she's 347 00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:17,520 Speaker 1: not just ruthless though she's brilliant. Anarchists getting nervous around her, 348 00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:21,840 Speaker 1: like why are you so intended strong? Everyone respects her. 349 00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:24,960 Speaker 1: Her leadership was like welcomed and supported by the gang. 350 00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:30,720 Speaker 1: Her lieutenant was a woman named Margaret Maggie Hughes who 351 00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:33,760 Speaker 1: came from a family of criminals. Um. She was an 352 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:38,240 Speaker 1: amazing character and like the perfect sidekick for Alice. Maggie 353 00:20:38,359 --> 00:20:41,920 Speaker 1: drove a Ford V eight with a periscope on it 354 00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:45,560 Speaker 1: so that she can see the cops like coming or chasing, 355 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:52,679 Speaker 1: and like she's just like it's cartoonish, yeah, like this 356 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:56,439 Speaker 1: big periscope and she's got like goggles on. Alice is 357 00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:59,000 Speaker 1: like this, you know, proto Amazon in those days of 358 00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:03,359 Speaker 1: five ft nine, Maggie was four eleven. So these two 359 00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:07,560 Speaker 1: Maggie's got tattoos all over her arms and she's like 360 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:14,760 Speaker 1: this crazy temper. You know, she's just and she's like 361 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:21,120 Speaker 1: almost always drunk, so she's just feisty. Like one time 362 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:24,040 Speaker 1: she goes into this store and there's like this tray 363 00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:26,960 Speaker 1: of diamond rings out on display, and she just picks 364 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:30,840 Speaker 1: it up and walks out and like runs right into 365 00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:34,440 Speaker 1: a cop on the street. So she gets arrested, convicted, 366 00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:37,520 Speaker 1: serves two years for that stunt out of that one. No, 367 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:40,680 Speaker 1: she gets arrested a lot, like a lot in her life. 368 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:43,960 Speaker 1: She's drunk a lot. Yeah, exactly. So wait, let's go 369 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:46,560 Speaker 1: back a little earlier to the days of Alice's Rain. 370 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:51,760 Speaker 1: This is in the twenties flapper era in full swing. Glamorous, 371 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:54,680 Speaker 1: bright young things are all the rage thanks to silent 372 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:59,960 Speaker 1: films and like expanding access to print media and radio picture. 373 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:04,560 Speaker 1: Under the leadership of Mary Carr, the forty Elephants established 374 00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:09,000 Speaker 1: themselves as just like all these independent, strong women and 375 00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:13,560 Speaker 1: sure they're criminals, but they're also businesswomen. They also they 376 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:15,840 Speaker 1: were able to pull themselves out of poverty and live 377 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:19,119 Speaker 1: this life of luxury. So at the start of the 378 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:21,919 Speaker 1: jazz Age, luxury is feeling really new and sleek and 379 00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:25,520 Speaker 1: young and exciting. The gang is making headlines, but not 380 00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:30,600 Speaker 1: for their capers. They threw enormous decadent parties like are 381 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:36,600 Speaker 1: we talking like f Scott, Yes, exactly, super over the top. 382 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:40,760 Speaker 1: They all dress in the absolute latest expensive fashions. They 383 00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:44,480 Speaker 1: spend money like water at bars and nightclubs. Don't forget, 384 00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:49,480 Speaker 1: there's no totally. The gang members are loving it. What 385 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:52,439 Speaker 1: a life. You know who else loved it? Me? I 386 00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:58,560 Speaker 1: love it? Newspapers like and the public couldn't wait to 387 00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:01,240 Speaker 1: read about all their exploit Yeah, they wanted to read 388 00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:03,720 Speaker 1: about their nights on the town. See the pictures. People 389 00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:08,640 Speaker 1: forget that about the gangster. They were like the celebrities exactly. 390 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:10,760 Speaker 1: So we have that on both sides of the Atlantic 391 00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:15,199 Speaker 1: right now. Police were begging newspaper editors to stop writing 392 00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:17,720 Speaker 1: about them. You're like, you are fanning the flames this, 393 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:20,720 Speaker 1: you're making this look way too good. Police supported cancel culture. 394 00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:25,119 Speaker 1: It's what you're telling we need to platform. The papers 395 00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:28,119 Speaker 1: are like, what the police want or money in our pockets. 396 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:30,320 Speaker 1: They're like, sorry, we got to sell these rags. Sorry. 397 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:34,359 Speaker 1: So then Alice like she changed more about the gang 398 00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:41,360 Speaker 1: than just partying habits. She organized the girls into cells 399 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:44,600 Speaker 1: and they're spread throughout the city. They like they would 400 00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:47,840 Speaker 1: hit multiple high end department stores at once. Each cell 401 00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:50,960 Speaker 1: would be assigned to a different same time coordinated at 402 00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:55,560 Speaker 1: once that they're stressing police response. Yes, synchronized watches. Police 403 00:23:55,600 --> 00:24:00,240 Speaker 1: attention is divided friends him Oh yeah. Um, a lot 404 00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:04,800 Speaker 1: Flashbob crimes, totally, totally. Um. A lot of the items 405 00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:07,119 Speaker 1: that were stolen by the gang would be sold in 406 00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:10,239 Speaker 1: this network of fences across North and South London. I 407 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:12,840 Speaker 1: imagine some of this stuff is being ferried, like the 408 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:16,800 Speaker 1: stolen goods are not being then resold in London, and 409 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:18,560 Speaker 1: then there's a lot of international back and forth. They 410 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:20,840 Speaker 1: had these like store houses and stuff where they would 411 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:24,560 Speaker 1: ship stuff. Um. Items of lesser value were sold at 412 00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:29,040 Speaker 1: like street markets. Con shops are outside of the underground tubes. Right, 413 00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:33,240 Speaker 1: Clothing was sold to shops that were like willing to 414 00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:36,679 Speaker 1: swap labels or altar designs a little bit. All tracks 415 00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:39,520 Speaker 1: were always covered though, no matter what they did, Alice 416 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:46,359 Speaker 1: started using decoys, so no less experienced gang members would 417 00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:48,080 Speaker 1: go into a store and act like they were going 418 00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:51,719 Speaker 1: to steal something like looks suspicious. They would like stand 419 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:54,040 Speaker 1: like way too close to the front door while holding 420 00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:58,879 Speaker 1: something really expensive, so store guards and then meanwhile, the 421 00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:02,520 Speaker 1: more experienced the as are like doing all their work unobserved. Yeah, 422 00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:04,840 Speaker 1: they're walking the jewelry out the back door. That's exactly. 423 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:07,560 Speaker 1: Then they did this in reverse so that if there 424 00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:10,720 Speaker 1: was like a well known, seasoned and like therefore suspicious 425 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:14,199 Speaker 1: gang member, they would be followed around a store and 426 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:16,840 Speaker 1: so then they would send an unknown new girl in 427 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:19,359 Speaker 1: who would have the opportunity to do all her work 428 00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:21,919 Speaker 1: while everyone's focused on the well known thief. This is 429 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:25,880 Speaker 1: like Lioness is teaching the lion comes to hunt. This 430 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:28,840 Speaker 1: is amazing. I'm going to go distract the buffalo, the 431 00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:31,919 Speaker 1: cape buffalo. You come in from behind. When one of 432 00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:34,840 Speaker 1: these instances where a well known thief was like cruising 433 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:38,000 Speaker 1: a store, a young rookie gets caught and it was 434 00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:41,240 Speaker 1: discovered she had she had like over forty different items 435 00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:45,320 Speaker 1: in her clothes that she had just been like sink sink. Second. Yeah, 436 00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:48,399 Speaker 1: so because Aliceie, she taught the girls how to modify 437 00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:52,520 Speaker 1: their outfits. Like I said, they had like pockets and talking. 438 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:54,439 Speaker 1: We mean like things where you're sliding it into a 439 00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:57,320 Speaker 1: piece of fabric. That's just it looks like there is 440 00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:01,120 Speaker 1: none and they were in the skirts, the notes, their hats, 441 00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:06,160 Speaker 1: in their bloomers. Yeah, some outfits were like especially tailored 442 00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:09,119 Speaker 1: for robbing, like specific shops, and then a lot of 443 00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:12,359 Speaker 1: them would wear like muffs and cumber buns because you 444 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:18,560 Speaker 1: can like totally that's like came up with that. Um. 445 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:21,119 Speaker 1: There was a gang member who had an artificial arm. 446 00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:27,320 Speaker 1: That's like she has that all out like exposed, and 447 00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:30,240 Speaker 1: then her other arm underneath is just like shoveling stuff 448 00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:33,000 Speaker 1: into her pockets. Um, they did this thing. They had 449 00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:36,560 Speaker 1: a crushed technique. The gang would all descend onto a 450 00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:39,560 Speaker 1: shop at once and overwhelm the employees, so they would 451 00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:41,520 Speaker 1: all be asking to see different items and then they 452 00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:43,400 Speaker 1: would pass them along to each other to look at 453 00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:46,760 Speaker 1: and then suddenly it gets passed right out the door. Um. 454 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:49,679 Speaker 1: There was a detective who was quoted as saying, they 455 00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:52,919 Speaker 1: will descend like a gang of locusts in taxis and 456 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:56,800 Speaker 1: chauffeur driven limousines, cleaning out a store inside one hour 457 00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:00,159 Speaker 1: without giving any breathing space whatsoever. So they were like 458 00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:02,439 Speaker 1: the bling Ring, but instead of going to the houses 459 00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:06,120 Speaker 1: that we just go right to the star and they're 460 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:08,719 Speaker 1: looking legit when they walk in yeah, they're ring all 461 00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:11,400 Speaker 1: the latest. And here's the thing. You're working in a shop. 462 00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:13,400 Speaker 1: I don't know if they're working on commission, but like 463 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:16,680 Speaker 1: you're getting You have all these women walking in who 464 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:18,640 Speaker 1: look like they've got money to spend, and you don't 465 00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:20,560 Speaker 1: want to be the one who's like, um, I'm sorry, 466 00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:23,000 Speaker 1: this looks like, this looks shady. You don't want to 467 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:26,240 Speaker 1: turn out a customer. And they I don't know any 468 00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:28,199 Speaker 1: of these women. We all just happened to come in 469 00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:29,880 Speaker 1: here at the same time. And now you're gonna blame 470 00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:32,160 Speaker 1: me while I'm taking my money something exactly. You can't 471 00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:34,320 Speaker 1: run that risk. So they're they're kind of hoping that 472 00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:37,919 Speaker 1: everyone's hunger for cash is going to play um. In 473 00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:40,440 Speaker 1: one of the tricks, a gang member stuck a piece 474 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:42,720 Speaker 1: of gum under the counter and then asked to see 475 00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:46,879 Speaker 1: some jewelry and then with like the person looks away, 476 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:50,280 Speaker 1: the counterperson looks away. They stick the jewelry into the gum, 477 00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:52,639 Speaker 1: and then another gang member comes by and takes it, 478 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:57,440 Speaker 1: and so then she the initial girl, she gets like confronted, 479 00:27:57,480 --> 00:27:59,720 Speaker 1: like where's the ring I was showing in search me? 480 00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:04,200 Speaker 1: I have it. I don't know where you must have exactly. 481 00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:08,520 Speaker 1: Oh you try and blame me. Um. So we see 482 00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:11,320 Speaker 1: like from Old Maggie and her V eight with the periscope, 483 00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:17,359 Speaker 1: the gang started getting into cars big time. They made 484 00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:21,080 Speaker 1: high speed police chases like a regular occurrence. Can you 485 00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:22,680 Speaker 1: imagine going back in time to be able to watch 486 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:25,440 Speaker 1: one of these things, just like calling down the road 487 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:30,240 Speaker 1: there's a parent some like really beautifully dressed, like dress, 488 00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:33,760 Speaker 1: it's all chety, cheaty bang bang I mean. And like 489 00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:36,919 Speaker 1: the thing is that those chases always ended in confusion 490 00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:39,840 Speaker 1: because they would make their escape but they already had 491 00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:41,920 Speaker 1: like figured out where they would meet up with other 492 00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:46,440 Speaker 1: gang members and just like hand stuff off. A car 493 00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:49,920 Speaker 1: breaks down to pass like a couple of times to 494 00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:52,200 Speaker 1: different cars and then drive on and so the police 495 00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:55,360 Speaker 1: catch up and it's like what hand, Yeah, there's nothing 496 00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:56,920 Speaker 1: in this car, search it and then they have to 497 00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:59,280 Speaker 1: let them go. So they would like you know, they 498 00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:02,520 Speaker 1: wouldn't get like evading police charger. They dead to right, 499 00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:08,160 Speaker 1: but yet they cannot them on speeding exactly probably so Um. 500 00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:11,760 Speaker 1: The cars also let them operate outside of London, um, 501 00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:13,800 Speaker 1: and they really needed that because they're becoming more and 502 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:17,280 Speaker 1: more recognizable. So they're going off to like Bath, Bristol, Okay, 503 00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:20,360 Speaker 1: just about ask where do you go? So, well, the 504 00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:22,520 Speaker 1: thing is they like they would go to those other cities, 505 00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:25,440 Speaker 1: go to shops there, then come back to London all 506 00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:28,520 Speaker 1: before midnight, lock up everything in their storehouses so that 507 00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:30,680 Speaker 1: they could resell them, so that the cars gave them 508 00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:34,760 Speaker 1: that really fast mobility. Um. Outsiders that were caught working 509 00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:39,600 Speaker 1: in their territory were confronted, so yeah, they h yeah, 510 00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:45,000 Speaker 1: and they'd have to get two ways to say that. Yeah, 511 00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:47,200 Speaker 1: they'd have to give them a cut, like if you 512 00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:49,120 Speaker 1: if you get caught work in the territory, now you 513 00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:53,120 Speaker 1: got to give us a cut. And if they standards, 514 00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:58,240 Speaker 1: which is like then the forty Elephants used the Elephant 515 00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:01,400 Speaker 1: and Castle mob as their hea ease to like beat 516 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:05,400 Speaker 1: and kidnap until they get paid. So they basically take 517 00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:09,200 Speaker 1: these criminal drone bees and send them out exactly. Well, 518 00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:12,480 Speaker 1: they're like the male lions, like they got to fight 519 00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:19,120 Speaker 1: and defend occasionally and so like, even though they loved 520 00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:27,560 Speaker 1: their cars, they supported public transportation and infrastructure, so he's 521 00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:30,760 Speaker 1: the British railway system. In their work, Um, they would 522 00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:33,640 Speaker 1: travel to other towns with empty suitcases and leave those 523 00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:36,040 Speaker 1: at the station, and then they would come back from 524 00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:38,560 Speaker 1: the stores, they hit pack everything into the empty suitcases 525 00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:41,520 Speaker 1: and right away. Yeah. Oh, they would even travel with 526 00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:45,520 Speaker 1: they would travel with it. And then I'm sure they did, 527 00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:49,440 Speaker 1: you know, a million iterations of this um. They were 528 00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:53,760 Speaker 1: really respected for their work, ethic, for the work. And 529 00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:57,960 Speaker 1: Alice implemented something called the Hoysters Code. Okay, it's like 530 00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:00,440 Speaker 1: a pirate code. Yeah, so here's some of the elements 531 00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:03,600 Speaker 1: of it. Money made from heists is always divided equally. 532 00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:07,560 Speaker 1: That's very pirate. Everyone was expected to provide alibis, whether 533 00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:11,520 Speaker 1: real or fictional, for their fellow gang members smarter than pirates. 534 00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:14,160 Speaker 1: No drinking was allowed the night before or the day 535 00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:21,480 Speaker 1: of a job. Maggie, we're looking at you. Maggie's law. 536 00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:27,480 Speaker 1: No police interaction whatsoever, Like don't even look at them, 537 00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:29,440 Speaker 1: don't even give them the time of death. I thought 538 00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:31,000 Speaker 1: it was like, don't date them, don't talk to them. 539 00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:34,480 Speaker 1: Most certainly, Yeah, if a gang member is caught and arrested, 540 00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:38,040 Speaker 1: their family would be protected while they're incarcerated. But you've 541 00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:41,120 Speaker 1: got to do the time. No cutting a deal, and 542 00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:44,120 Speaker 1: that's just good. You can take care of That's the 543 00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:46,640 Speaker 1: big fear of you have totally and so no deals 544 00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:50,120 Speaker 1: on present time, no deals on like informing on nothing. 545 00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:53,480 Speaker 1: So that's really smart. They created a fund and they 546 00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:58,720 Speaker 1: put it aside specifically for family members of incarcerated gang members. However, 547 00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:02,960 Speaker 1: is useful. It's like a strike fund, but totally as 548 00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:07,160 Speaker 1: useful as the Oysters Code was. It ultimately ended up 549 00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:10,239 Speaker 1: being Alice's downfall. How could it be your downfall? Did 550 00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:12,080 Speaker 1: she like write it down and sign it or something. 551 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:15,960 Speaker 1: When we come back from this break, I'll tell you. 552 00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:19,600 Speaker 1: I tell you how things went south for Alice a 553 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:43,520 Speaker 1: k A Diamond Danny Diamond, Alice. All right, Zaron Elizabeth. 554 00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:46,160 Speaker 1: When we left off, I was telling you about forty 555 00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:57,600 Speaker 1: Elephants and their queen, Alice Diamond Diamond, Alice Margaret. Alice 556 00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:02,320 Speaker 1: instituted the Oysters Code as a set of rules that 557 00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:05,640 Speaker 1: gang members had to live. Fine. Part of the Oysters 558 00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:10,160 Speaker 1: Code was total obedience to Alice. You can't put that in. 559 00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:12,680 Speaker 1: That's not democratic. That's the one thing about a code 560 00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:14,920 Speaker 1: is you're supposed to be kind of democratic. We all 561 00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:19,480 Speaker 1: live by this rule. That rule. This included needing her 562 00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:26,080 Speaker 1: approval for dating or marrying anyone. That's really Alice knew 563 00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:29,280 Speaker 1: the pitfalls of love. She didn't want gang members telling 564 00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:32,760 Speaker 1: new suitors about plans, and she wanted to be able 565 00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:35,280 Speaker 1: to vet dudes to make sure there are no undercover cops. 566 00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:37,320 Speaker 1: I mean, all smart, but you got to figure out 567 00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:39,560 Speaker 1: a way other than just you have that power, right, 568 00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:41,640 Speaker 1: There's got to be some other codes. I don't know what, 569 00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:44,480 Speaker 1: but I don't can't just be Alice because is sick 570 00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:48,479 Speaker 1: for two weeks, you know. So there's this gang member 571 00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:51,680 Speaker 1: named Marie Brittain and she didn't like that part of 572 00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:56,080 Speaker 1: the word got around. She'd met a guy, got pregnant, 573 00:33:56,560 --> 00:34:00,160 Speaker 1: got married, didn't run it by Alice. Alice's of it. 574 00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:02,840 Speaker 1: You have to follow all of the code or none 575 00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:05,640 Speaker 1: of the code. Take the baby away. Well, no, Marie's out. 576 00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:07,920 Speaker 1: She's like, you're out of the gang. Right, that's bad, 577 00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:10,600 Speaker 1: You're not really out. Leaving a gang is not so simple, 578 00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:26,120 Speaker 1: zaren Close your eye. Right, It's December, London, it's the 579 00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:33,480 Speaker 1: holiday season. You're sitting in a pub, the Canterbury Arms 580 00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:37,760 Speaker 1: Club in Waterloo, South London. The air is filled with tobacco, 581 00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:40,920 Speaker 1: smoke and the sound of clinking glasses and people making 582 00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:44,600 Speaker 1: merry while the economy isn't so hot for you and yours. 583 00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:48,360 Speaker 1: The pub is full of revelers, spending like there's no tomorrow. 584 00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:51,359 Speaker 1: You know what that means. They're in a business that's 585 00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:56,719 Speaker 1: always flush, criming. They're members of the criming community. It's 586 00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:58,920 Speaker 1: getting towards the end of the evening. You're ready to 587 00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:01,319 Speaker 1: head home, but you hear the gettings of an altercation 588 00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:04,359 Speaker 1: that looks a little interesting. Two women fully in their 589 00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:08,360 Speaker 1: cups are snapping in each other, trading insults and colleag names. 590 00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:13,480 Speaker 1: You know exactly who they are, everyone does. That's Marie Jackson, 591 00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:19,000 Speaker 1: Nay Brittain and Bertha Tappendon. Bertha is a member of 592 00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:23,440 Speaker 1: the forty Elephants, so is Marie up until recently, and 593 00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:26,560 Speaker 1: she got the boot. Bertha is yelling something about an 594 00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:29,960 Speaker 1: outside her husband, and Marie is yelling right back about 595 00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:33,960 Speaker 1: love and mining one's own business. Finally, Marie has had enough. 596 00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:38,720 Speaker 1: She lunges at Bertha with a broken wine glass. Marie's father, 597 00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:44,279 Speaker 1: Bill Britton, stops her, then he punches Bertha himself. A 598 00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:47,560 Speaker 1: hush falls over the pub. Then the whole place erupts 599 00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:50,840 Speaker 1: into a fight, men and women alike coming to blows. 600 00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:53,759 Speaker 1: Marie and her dad eventually run from the pub and 601 00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:57,080 Speaker 1: everything dies down. You look around and realize you've got 602 00:35:57,080 --> 00:35:58,960 Speaker 1: your cousin by the collar and you're ready to pound 603 00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:02,200 Speaker 1: his face in for unrelated reasons. You look at each other, 604 00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:04,719 Speaker 1: you laugh, dust yourselves off. Let's call it a night. 605 00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:08,960 Speaker 1: So the forty elephants, though they're not ready to call 606 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:13,920 Speaker 1: it a night, not by a long shot. Mad dog Maggie, 607 00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:20,000 Speaker 1: she is fired up. She tells Alice what happened, and then, 608 00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:23,000 Speaker 1: according to her, Marie and the dad started the whole 609 00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:26,440 Speaker 1: brawl and then went home. Alice has to act, so 610 00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:29,399 Speaker 1: later that night, Alice, Maggie, and like a dozen gang 611 00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:32,759 Speaker 1: members make their way to Marie's door. And these are 612 00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:35,640 Speaker 1: the male or female gang members, A little bit of both, okay, 613 00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:41,120 Speaker 1: curious mostly the women. Alice knocks on the door, door 614 00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:45,080 Speaker 1: opens quickly. They're expecting to see Marie, but all Alice's 615 00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:47,240 Speaker 1: is a jug full of water headed right at her face. 616 00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:51,240 Speaker 1: Marie just dumps a huge bucket of water. Quick question. 617 00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:55,359 Speaker 1: Was that smart of Marie? I'm gonna go with it. 618 00:36:55,400 --> 00:37:00,080 Speaker 1: Did not help things. Maggie tells the group break on 619 00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:04,360 Speaker 1: the door so armed with a pistol, iron bars, knives 620 00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:08,520 Speaker 1: and bricks. They busted into the house and just wrecked shop. 621 00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:11,320 Speaker 1: They held Marie at gunpoint while they beat her father, 622 00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:14,279 Speaker 1: her new husband, and her fifteen year old brothers. Senseless 623 00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:20,120 Speaker 1: violent Scorsese movie. Right. Not everyone could fit in the 624 00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:23,399 Speaker 1: house to get in on violence. So the cook's out 625 00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:26,080 Speaker 1: on the street started settling for just like throwing rocks 626 00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:29,239 Speaker 1: and bottles. Yeah, they're just pummeling the house. It was 627 00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:32,720 Speaker 1: like a line waiting for my turn now serving number seven. 628 00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:37,160 Speaker 1: Number seven. Marie's dad is severely injured in this I 629 00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:39,880 Speaker 1: should know. Okay. There are a couple different accounts of 630 00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:42,440 Speaker 1: this melee. It's referred to as the Lambeth riot of 631 00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:47,960 Speaker 1: three people getting beaten up so badly it was dozen 632 00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:54,880 Speaker 1: oft is in some accounts. Some say it's Marie because 633 00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:58,120 Speaker 1: your family got beaten up so bad everyone called it, right, 634 00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:00,879 Speaker 1: that's amazing. So there's some comes that they say it's 635 00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:02,840 Speaker 1: Marie and her husband, who are the ones mixing it 636 00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:05,040 Speaker 1: up with the gangs. Other ones it's Marie and her father. 637 00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:07,719 Speaker 1: Some say it's her father and her brother. I just 638 00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:09,440 Speaker 1: say it's all three. I like going with all thing. 639 00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:12,520 Speaker 1: I'm believing that one. So Marie's dad. He's beaten within 640 00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:14,360 Speaker 1: an inch of his life. The only thing that saves 641 00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:17,520 Speaker 1: him the cops. So this is also don't forget all 642 00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:20,360 Speaker 1: these families, like, no one, no woman in the forty 643 00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:23,600 Speaker 1: Elephants comes from like a straight arrow family. So these 644 00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:26,719 Speaker 1: are like a bunch of criminals. The cops coming for 645 00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:28,560 Speaker 1: the first time in his life. He's like, oh, thank god, 646 00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:32,560 Speaker 1: it's that cops. Thank god the police arrived. They arrest 647 00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:37,040 Speaker 1: pretty much everybody there. Um, everyone gets charged and sentenced. 648 00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:40,920 Speaker 1: Alice is sentenced to eighteen months in prison. Alice queen, 649 00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:48,799 Speaker 1: she wasn't just like sitting yes, so that was the 650 00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:52,319 Speaker 1: down her own code. Marie broke it, brings it all down, 651 00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:57,280 Speaker 1: So she gets eighteen months in prison. Maggie gets five 652 00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:00,200 Speaker 1: years because of all her past violent acts and the 653 00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:02,440 Speaker 1: fact that she sort of incited the whole riot by 654 00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:05,000 Speaker 1: busting down the door. Yeah, they're probably gonna give her 655 00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:09,120 Speaker 1: like your exercise of control and she's a tattooed spark plug. 656 00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:12,960 Speaker 1: The judge, you know what, lock her up. By the 657 00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:15,600 Speaker 1: time Alice got out of prison eighteen months later, there 658 00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:19,200 Speaker 1: was a new Queen of the forty Elephants, Lillian Rose Kendall, 659 00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:23,160 Speaker 1: a k a. The Bob Haired Bandit. So she's like 660 00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:25,160 Speaker 1: a like a what you called flapp pull on flapper. 661 00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:29,680 Speaker 1: At this point, Lillian total crack getaway driver. She brought 662 00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:33,960 Speaker 1: a new technique to the forty Elephants, something called ram rating. 663 00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:37,359 Speaker 1: We would call it a smash and grab, okay, so 664 00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:40,600 Speaker 1: they would drive a car through a department store window, 665 00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:44,719 Speaker 1: grab everything within sight and reach, then like throw it 666 00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:47,880 Speaker 1: into reverse and drive away. That is more than and 667 00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:51,520 Speaker 1: like Lillian's bow. Was this guy who did that for 668 00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:54,920 Speaker 1: the Elephant and Castle Mob. And he would travel with 669 00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:59,000 Speaker 1: like little sterilized clips to seal up slices from glass 670 00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:01,799 Speaker 1: that they would get and so they could like until 671 00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:04,839 Speaker 1: they could go get stitches. He needed clips. They were 672 00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:08,000 Speaker 1: so big. Yeah, well, I mean huge pains. But that's 673 00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:13,080 Speaker 1: that's an impressive so um. Times were changing though, so 674 00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:16,080 Speaker 1: by eight Crazy Maggie had been kicked out of the 675 00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:19,560 Speaker 1: gang for being too much of a liability. Yeah, that's 676 00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:21,719 Speaker 1: like if you get kicked out of a criminal operation. 677 00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:25,160 Speaker 1: She's just too much of a wild card. Her last 678 00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:27,880 Speaker 1: arrest was in nineteen thirty nine. She served three years 679 00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:30,719 Speaker 1: for attacking two women with broken bottles, resulting in one 680 00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:35,440 Speaker 1: of them losing an eye. Yeah, Alice got out of prisons. 681 00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:38,560 Speaker 1: It's hard to defend her well. In other reports. There 682 00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:41,840 Speaker 1: are some that say that she was busted for stabbing 683 00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:44,919 Speaker 1: a cop in the eye with a hat pin. Either way, 684 00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:49,759 Speaker 1: someone lost an eye. And to write, Alice got out 685 00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:52,080 Speaker 1: of prison, but not out of the life. She became 686 00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:55,680 Speaker 1: a brothel madam when she got out. She coached a 687 00:40:55,719 --> 00:40:58,239 Speaker 1: whole new generation of women on the art of surviving 688 00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:01,920 Speaker 1: by any means necessary. Um. When World War two came around, 689 00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:06,000 Speaker 1: she refused to evacuate London. Good right, She's just like, look, 690 00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:10,920 Speaker 1: I you know, I'm built to last for the remaindering 691 00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:16,240 Speaker 1: exactly for the remaining gang members. Um. Making a living 692 00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:19,440 Speaker 1: doing this kind of crime got harder and harder. Fashions 693 00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:23,279 Speaker 1: changed and got like sleeker and refined. Yeah, it was 694 00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:27,320 Speaker 1: really hard to find, like spots to hide all your exactly, 695 00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:32,160 Speaker 1: police and detective and like, security techniques evolved faster than 696 00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:35,320 Speaker 1: the gang techniques did. Yeah. The radio, the car radio busted, 697 00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:37,480 Speaker 1: respawn quicker and all of a sudden you're trying to 698 00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:41,520 Speaker 1: drive and they've closed down the circle exactly. By the fifties, 699 00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:44,279 Speaker 1: the gang had pretty much fizzled. Their last queen was 700 00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:47,759 Speaker 1: a woman named Shirley Pitts, and she took pride in 701 00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:51,640 Speaker 1: not having ever informed on anyone, but also never got 702 00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:55,439 Speaker 1: mixed up in violence. Yeah exactly. You know, I don't 703 00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:57,160 Speaker 1: mind a criminal is not going to get violence. That's 704 00:41:57,160 --> 00:42:00,040 Speaker 1: how I feel. Keeping up with the times. Um. He 705 00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:02,840 Speaker 1: would work stores with what she called her quote magic bag, 706 00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:07,120 Speaker 1: which was a tinfoil lined purse that would interfere with 707 00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:12,600 Speaker 1: store security tag she made. She became a legend in 708 00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:15,880 Speaker 1: her own right. She took her teams of thieves and 709 00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:19,120 Speaker 1: then they went to Geneva in Paris, so they were 710 00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:23,799 Speaker 1: just like like you know how those travel nurses around hotspots, 711 00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:29,719 Speaker 1: um thieves sands borders or sands frontiers. So she did 712 00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:32,359 Speaker 1: three years in prison and she's one of the few 713 00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:38,080 Speaker 1: women to successfully escape from a British prison. She she 714 00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:40,279 Speaker 1: jumped out of She got out of a prison van 715 00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:42,440 Speaker 1: that was driving her to court because she didn't want 716 00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:44,719 Speaker 1: to give birth to her daughter in prison, so she 717 00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:48,200 Speaker 1: jumped out of the thing pregnant. That was her escape. 718 00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:53,520 Speaker 1: When she passed away, it was an absolute British tabloid sensation. 719 00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:56,759 Speaker 1: Her funeral was attended by her family, and then all 720 00:42:56,800 --> 00:43:02,160 Speaker 1: her criminal acquaintances and the looting the Great Train Robert 721 00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:06,319 Speaker 1: Buster Edwards. There is there was at her funeral, there 722 00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:09,560 Speaker 1: was a six foot long flower arrangement that was crafted 723 00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:15,480 Speaker 1: said that said gone shopping on it. And she was 724 00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:19,239 Speaker 1: buried in Assandra Roads dress that the press said was 725 00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:22,440 Speaker 1: addressed that she stole. But her friends like, no, no, 726 00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:25,120 Speaker 1: she paid for that, that she stole her last dress exactly. 727 00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:30,879 Speaker 1: So zaren, do I get to keep my job? Okay, 728 00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:33,320 Speaker 1: as much as I would like to be able to 729 00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:35,759 Speaker 1: answer that question, I'm gonna need you to come back 730 00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:37,920 Speaker 1: and do this one more time and then we can 731 00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:39,719 Speaker 1: talk about it. Because that was really good. That was 732 00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:43,080 Speaker 1: really good. Thank you. I cannot decide and I hate 733 00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:47,879 Speaker 1: to leave you dangling like this, but yeah, okay, come 734 00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:54,759 Speaker 1: back again. What's your ridiculous takeaway? Ridiculous takeaway? Man? Thank 735 00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:58,680 Speaker 1: you for asking. Yeah. Well, you know, women, like a 736 00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:02,360 Speaker 1: group of women, responding to the conditions of their time, 737 00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:05,600 Speaker 1: were far smarter criminals than any group of men I've 738 00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:08,439 Speaker 1: heard about. They all the stuff they did. The only 739 00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:11,120 Speaker 1: ones that rival are like the pirates, some a couple 740 00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:14,080 Speaker 1: of the assassin groups. Like very few criminals come up 741 00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:16,640 Speaker 1: with a group ethos that allows them to last for decades. 742 00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:19,400 Speaker 1: I mean, there are there are numerous things you can 743 00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:21,279 Speaker 1: point to that people think of as institutions that have 744 00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:24,960 Speaker 1: not lasted as long as the forty elephants exactly. I'm 745 00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:29,240 Speaker 1: impressed by the group ethos of those lionesses. Yes, I agree, 746 00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:32,239 Speaker 1: I agree, But what's the r ridiculous takeaway? Hearing me 747 00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:38,680 Speaker 1: over here ask you look at that it's done. Thank 748 00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:41,359 Speaker 1: you so much in case you get to come back. 749 00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:46,239 Speaker 1: What I'm saying takeaway is, I you know, I'm with you. 750 00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:48,399 Speaker 1: I think that this is like they're so clever with 751 00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:51,000 Speaker 1: it for the most part. Mean, they were pretty violent 752 00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:53,759 Speaker 1: and I didn't, but I'm kind of walking around that one. Yeah, 753 00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:55,880 Speaker 1: but I think like at the core of it, it's 754 00:44:55,680 --> 00:45:00,080 Speaker 1: a it's really interesting how they take desperate times and 755 00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:04,919 Speaker 1: their desperate measures were pretty fascinating and seeing way into 756 00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:08,359 Speaker 1: the future of what's possible for women in society that 757 00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:10,000 Speaker 1: you know, you can go out and just create your 758 00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:12,600 Speaker 1: own thing and be your own boss. Now granted they 759 00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:14,680 Speaker 1: couldn't do that legally, so they had to do that 760 00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:16,880 Speaker 1: outside of the law, but they did it with self regard. 761 00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:18,680 Speaker 1: They said, these are these may be the conditions do 762 00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:21,239 Speaker 1: you think I live in I will show you the conditions, 763 00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:23,000 Speaker 1: and I think that there are a lot of their 764 00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:26,360 Speaker 1: recklessness is a product of those conditions where it's like 765 00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:28,680 Speaker 1: what if I got to lose? Yeah, those childhoods. I mean, 766 00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:32,080 Speaker 1: you know, we now know about your your your formative 767 00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:34,000 Speaker 1: years and how important it is the zero to five 768 00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:37,520 Speaker 1: or zero to three, whichever, there's numerous metrics. But can 769 00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:40,000 Speaker 1: you imagine what they lived through and just the regular 770 00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:42,880 Speaker 1: beatings and who they saw as lessons of don't do 771 00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:44,600 Speaker 1: this because it turns out like that, don't do this, 772 00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:47,040 Speaker 1: always do this or otherwise they would have had so 773 00:45:47,120 --> 00:45:50,280 Speaker 1: many always in never and I imagine just everyday violence 774 00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:54,759 Speaker 1: exactly the exactly numb to it, and you see it 775 00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:57,279 Speaker 1: as a language and not as as a forbidden thing, 776 00:45:57,440 --> 00:46:00,440 Speaker 1: right right, So it's fascinating. It's fascinating. I'd like to 777 00:46:00,719 --> 00:46:03,080 Speaker 1: Apparently they're making a movie about them. I don't know 778 00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:05,239 Speaker 1: much about it, and they mess up so many these 779 00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:07,080 Speaker 1: things because they decided to make it fluff, and they 780 00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:09,440 Speaker 1: get actresses you cannot believe would have ever done this thing, 781 00:46:09,640 --> 00:46:12,799 Speaker 1: like her teeth are goll clean, Like I kind of 782 00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:15,080 Speaker 1: want to see a guy Richie version. Of course, I 783 00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:17,960 Speaker 1: would love to see a guy who did what was 784 00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:23,399 Speaker 1: the train movie with Brad Pitt's getting beaten? Whoever made that, 785 00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:25,239 Speaker 1: I'd like to see them make. That was good. I 786 00:46:25,239 --> 00:46:28,600 Speaker 1: could deal with someone getting beat up for an hour 787 00:46:28,640 --> 00:46:30,040 Speaker 1: and a half, but I like that. But that was 788 00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:34,120 Speaker 1: a good one. Just an enduring beat down exactly. So 789 00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:38,440 Speaker 1: that's it and during beat down. You can find us 790 00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:41,160 Speaker 1: online at Ridiculous Crime on both Twitter for the talking 791 00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:45,000 Speaker 1: and Instagram for the cockin um. Email us at Ridiculous 792 00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:47,279 Speaker 1: Crime at gmail dot com. Other than that, tune in 793 00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:55,880 Speaker 1: next time. Ridiculous Crime is hosted by Elizabeth Dunton and 794 00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:59,760 Speaker 1: Zion Burnett, produced and edited by Diamond Dave Kosten. Research 795 00:46:59,840 --> 00:47:02,839 Speaker 1: is by The thirty Ninth Elephant Andrea song sharpen Tier. 796 00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:06,120 Speaker 1: The theme song is by Thomas Hippo and Townhouse Lee 797 00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:10,520 Speaker 1: and Travis Giraffe and Cottage Dotton. Executive producers are Notorious 798 00:47:10,560 --> 00:47:20,000 Speaker 1: Flying Squad Detectives Ben Bowling and Noel Brown. We Disquiet 799 00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:25,440 Speaker 1: say it one more Time, We dequeous. Ridiculous Crime is 800 00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:28,040 Speaker 1: a production of iHeart Radio. Four more podcasts to my 801 00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:31,080 Speaker 1: Heart Radio visit the iHeart radio, app, Apple podcasts, or 802 00:47:31,120 --> 00:47:32,880 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.