Speaker 1: Of the law and order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies. These episodes are based on.
Speaker 3: These are our stories.
Speaker 4: Done done, Hello, and welcome to That's Mess Up, an
Speaker 4: SVU podcast.
Speaker 3: I'm Kara Klank and I'm Liza Traeger.
Speaker 2: We talk SVU, we talk crimes, we have guests, and
Speaker 2: we're thrilled to be here week after week with you.
Speaker 2: How are you, Kara, I heard you have something to
Speaker 2: report on from the neighborhood neighborhood watch.
Speaker 3: Well, I'm good, I'm good. Let me.
Speaker 1: I'll just tell everybody. So my family, my entire family,
Speaker 1: is recovering from COVID. We by the time this episode
Speaker 1: comes out, we will be free and clear what we
Speaker 1: back in the world.
Speaker 2: And and I don't know if you know how dressed
Speaker 2: I was. Kara and I were supposed to meet at noon,
Speaker 2: and you probably know if you're a constant listener, if
Speaker 2: you're new. Kara sends a Google cattle Nder invite before
Speaker 2: we're even off the phone, talking about us meeting, so
Speaker 2: you know time's going by. There's no answer, no answer.
Speaker 2: I grab my keys, and I'm running out the door.
Speaker 2: I'm imagining your whole family's stabbed to death on the floor.
Speaker 2: And then I got a report that you were sleeping, but.
Speaker 1: Yeah, sorry, I had fallen asleep and I had forgotten
Speaker 1: that start.
Speaker 2: No, But then Lauren was like, I think she has COVID,
Speaker 2: and I was like, no, that makes more sense. But
Speaker 2: to me, I'm like, she's murdered.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so my whole family's been recovering from very mild
Speaker 1: cases of COVID thankfully. Like everybody's okay, no big deal.
Speaker 1: But I was recently walking with the kids in the
Speaker 1: neighborhood just to get some fresh air. I was staying
Speaker 1: away from people. Both my daughter and I were masked
Speaker 1: or my son can't be masked, but he's also like
Speaker 1: in a car seat, like blocked from everyone. So like
Speaker 1: I didn't think I was being a menace to society,
Speaker 1: but I was in my neighborhood, like on side streets,
Speaker 1: not the major street. I cross over the street. I
Speaker 1: see this guy jog by really fast.
Speaker 3: An athlete.
Speaker 1: Then suddenly my daughter's like, oh, my finger, like she
Speaker 1: banged it on the air, you know, and was like
Speaker 1: my finger, my finger, And so I'm talking to her,
Speaker 1: and this guy must have heard my voice because he
Speaker 1: comes running back and he goes Kara and I'm like
Speaker 1: searching his face, like do I know you?
Speaker 3: And he's like, I'm listening.
Speaker 1: To your podcast right now, tap class, and I was
Speaker 1: like yeah, but in my mind I was it was
Speaker 1: very flattering that this guy was like, I'm a fan,
Speaker 1: big fan of the podcast. I wanted to talk to him,
Speaker 1: but I was also like I have.
Speaker 3: COVID, like don't come near me.
Speaker 1: But I didn't want to like be like stop, I'm flammable,
Speaker 1: you know, So I just was very awkward, and in
Speaker 1: case he's listening, I just wanted to say it was
Speaker 1: nice to meet you and you were really nice, and
Speaker 1: I'm sorry if I seemed weird.
Speaker 3: It was just I didn't want.
Speaker 1: You to be like, oh is this rosy and like
Speaker 1: come into our bubble of germs.
Speaker 2: I know.
Speaker 3: I was like, carry you better have been nice. But
Speaker 3: also I was like, how did he reckonize?
Speaker 1: I was in sunglasses and a full y kN ninety
Speaker 1: five and I was like, how does this mean recodite?
Speaker 1: But I guess you know my voice talking to Rosie
Speaker 1: telling her to cut the shit.
Speaker 2: I recently saw some a friend at a party and
Speaker 2: I took off my sunglasses to say hello, and he
Speaker 2: was like, you think I wouldn't have recognized you with
Speaker 2: the sunglasses, But I don't know.
Speaker 3: I didn't think you would. But you have your taste.
Speaker 2: You're still eating, you're steaking case ideas, I'm still making.
Speaker 3: Case Adia's baby. Yeah, Like we're fine.
Speaker 1: It's just like it's honestly, it's very difficult with the
Speaker 1: two kids, but it's less difficult than I thought it
Speaker 1: would be. Like we're I'm on day like nine of
Speaker 1: being in the house with them right now, and it's
Speaker 1: we're okay. Like it's not ideal, but it's like I
Speaker 1: am letting my daughter watch an incredible amount of television, but.
Speaker 3: Because it's because you're a bad mother.
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, So I don't know what else to do,
Speaker 1: you know, Like what I mean truly, like we play,
Speaker 1: we go on a little walk, we try to go
Speaker 1: in the backyard, but it's like it's a full fucking
Speaker 1: day to fill with children.
Speaker 3: So I'm sure some people.
Speaker 1: Listening know my pain, because I'm sure some of you
Speaker 1: have had COVID with children.
Speaker 3: But yeah, I feel like that's part of the gig.
Speaker 2: If you're a kid and you're sick, you get to
Speaker 2: watch TV and yeah, like any popsicles or drink gatorade
Speaker 2: or whatever.
Speaker 1: But she feels fine, so she's kind of like, what's
Speaker 1: going on? Like why can't I go to school? Why
Speaker 1: can't I see my friends? And why are you just
Speaker 1: letting me watch TV all day? So hopefully it's not
Speaker 1: going to be too bad of a transition when she
Speaker 1: has to go back to school, which will be today.
Speaker 1: Actually today will be her first day back in school
Speaker 1: the day this episode comes.
Speaker 2: Out, because we're in a time machine that was se Oh,
Speaker 2: and your brother is visiting.
Speaker 1: Yes, my brother is visiting and he's staying at a
Speaker 1: hotel and we're going to be seeing him because we're
Speaker 1: at the tail end of it, so I'll be seeing
Speaker 1: him a little bit, and I'm excited.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's a real jet setter. He comes out here
Speaker 3: a lot.
Speaker 2: And I would like to mention I loved I didn't
Speaker 2: watch the Super Bowl. I went out to dinner. I'm
Speaker 2: kind of a cool girl like that, but I loved
Speaker 2: the halftime show more than I ever could envision.
Speaker 3: Like I got chills.
Speaker 2: I literally was like wow, watching these men and people
Speaker 2: I'm Mary J. But like watching Dre and Snoop together
Speaker 2: friends for decades in.
Speaker 3: La, Like it was such an LA show.
Speaker 1: That was what was really cool about it, Like the
Speaker 1: Rams came out to Nipsey Hustle, Like there was just
Speaker 1: like very la everything about it.
Speaker 3: And I loved the halftime show.
Speaker 1: Famously, I met fifty cent when I was a page
Speaker 1: at NBC and I took him. I was escorting him,
Speaker 1: and all of our name tags said like your first
Speaker 1: name and the first letter of your last name, so
Speaker 1: like mine said Kara kay, yours would have said, li's
Speaker 1: a tea. He I'm in the elevator with fifty cent
Speaker 1: and he's like, karakay. You know that's a palindrome. And
Speaker 1: I'm like, wow, fifty I never thought of that. And
Speaker 1: then he started like he was like making a whole
Speaker 1: thing about it. He was like Kara kay and like
Speaker 1: making up a little song about it. And I was like,
Speaker 1: this is wild. But also a girl I went to
Speaker 1: high school with sold fifty cents huge mansion in Connecticut
Speaker 1: that had like twenty four rooms and like a stripper pole,
Speaker 1: like a stripper full strip stage, like you know, a
Speaker 1: huge mansion. So got a couple connects to fifty but
Speaker 1: not to name drop today Drop No, but yes, so
Speaker 1: many good memes.
Speaker 2: I like the memes of him hanging upside down. I
Speaker 2: like waiting until the men finish. I uh, the set,
Speaker 2: you know. I Also, it's usually pop stars, so it's
Speaker 2: like bigger, bigger, bigger, bigger, fire Fire, get a Lion. Yeah,
Speaker 2: And it was nice that it was kind of like chill.
Speaker 2: It was just about the hits and friendship.
Speaker 3: And I loved how it was staged.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yes. And I loved that eminem you know, did it
Speaker 2: and took a name.
Speaker 3: Yeah No, that was awesome.
Speaker 1: I was that's very like all that music is like
Speaker 1: my college tie, like my high school and college tie.
Speaker 1: So it's like very part like I was like loving,
Speaker 1: loving it. It was one of the best I've seen in.
Speaker 3: A long time. I liked Shakira and j Loo.
Speaker 1: But besides that, it's like the Beyonce one from years
Speaker 1: ago when the power went out. I guess, like I
Speaker 1: don't know, like they've been really disappointing to me in
Speaker 1: the past few years, so this.
Speaker 3: Was like a really good one.
Speaker 1: I think overall people are the sentiment seems to be
Speaker 1: overall very positive.
Speaker 2: Yeah, unless you're like a child or a racist.
Speaker 1: You had a good time, I know. And I kept thinking,
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna look at Twitter. I can't handle if
Speaker 1: it gets racist on Twitter.
Speaker 2: But and I've been listening to playlists because that genre
Speaker 2: and time of music. I'm just I'm excited. I'm excited
Speaker 2: for what my car rides are going to be sounding
Speaker 2: like for the next Yeah too.
Speaker 1: Well that plus Yellowjackets, that's like a good time period.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I've been listening to I got five on it.
Speaker 2: I did see the Jordan Peele trailer. It does look exciting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Jared and I watched it this morning and he
Speaker 1: was like, that looks fucking awesome, like he's so excited.
Speaker 2: Well, because we saw us together, I believe. And then
Speaker 2: when I saw get Out, I was with a giant
Speaker 2: group too.
Speaker 3: I was with Alison Levey and she was very scared.
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 3: Yeah, she does not do horror movies.
Speaker 1: No.
Speaker 2: I get Out was an experience because I saw it
Speaker 2: in LA when his when Jordan Peele's name came up,
Speaker 2: people clapped. And then when Lil Rel at the end
Speaker 2: comes out, that was an experience in a movie theater.
Speaker 2: I'll never forget just people losing their minds with joy. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I don't know, it's yeah, cinematic, baby, I mean I
Speaker 2: have to see Jackass. Am.
Speaker 1: I gonna wait for you. Am I going alone? I'll
Speaker 1: go with you. I'm like, I'm literally at day ten,
Speaker 1: like tomorrow, I'll.
Speaker 2: Go with you. Yeah, I want to see Jackass. But
Speaker 2: another super Bowl thing. I don't know the details or
Speaker 2: the names, but a man who won the Super Bowl
Speaker 2: his hospital was in the wife. His hospital was in
Speaker 2: the wife, his wife I was drunk, okay, his wife
Speaker 2: was in the hospital giving birth.
Speaker 3: Oh my god. Really, So this.
Speaker 2: Guy won the super Bowl and then it's him running
Speaker 2: in the tunnels to like leave to go to the birth.
Speaker 3: That's that's like so crazy. It's like my husband went out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like my husband went out of town the weekend
Speaker 1: before I was supposed to give birth. And my doctor
Speaker 1: was like, it's fine, I bet your baby's not going
Speaker 1: to come early.
Speaker 3: And it did it. You know, like those kind of things.
Speaker 1: You think like won't happen, and like that's that timing
Speaker 1: is truly wild.
Speaker 3: Like that's ooh that poor lady.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but that's like such a fun night. Yeah, but
Speaker 2: if you're her.
Speaker 1: You're like, Oh, my body's being ripped apart, and I
Speaker 1: could be at the super Bowl celebrating with my husband.
Speaker 3: He does not even hear.
Speaker 2: Would you rather super Bowl? Would you rather sit really
Speaker 2: really close or be in a box?
Speaker 1: Ooh, I think box because I don't care about the game. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Like I want you know, I want the good food
Speaker 1: and like I want yeah, like I I also want
Speaker 1: to be able to like talk and not have anyone
Speaker 1: get mad at me. Oh yeah, right, Like I mean,
Speaker 1: I think football is so slow You've got to be
Speaker 1: able to talk during it. It's not like it's It's
Speaker 1: not like it's tennis. I would never talk at a
Speaker 1: tennis match, you know what I mean, like where it's
Speaker 1: like quiet, but like football takes forever.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Also, what do you think about the Olympics with
Speaker 2: Shikari and then the Russian.
Speaker 1: Do you mean the difference like how the Russian's allowed
Speaker 1: to play yeah skate?
Speaker 3: Yeah, fucked up? But like also is that like who
Speaker 3: said Shakari.
Speaker 1: Wasn't allowed to the Olympics for the Olympic committee, Yeah,
Speaker 1: they banned her. They were like, myye, bitch, and then
Speaker 1: this girl was allowed and apparently she medals. What sucks
Speaker 1: is that if she medals, apparently there's not even allowed
Speaker 1: to be a medal ceremony, So like, if you medal,
Speaker 1: you're even taking away that ceremony from two other athletes
Speaker 1: that work their whole lives for this.
Speaker 3: Yeah for what?
Speaker 2: Like what what kind of hole does Russia have on
Speaker 2: the Olympics?
Speaker 3: And she's fifteen, she'll be at another Olympics. She'll probably
Speaker 3: be another two, Like.
Speaker 2: I know for sure. I just I like a Winter Olympics,
Speaker 2: like I never thought it makes me actually want to
Speaker 2: maybe no, no, actually skate, I was gonna say snowboard.
Speaker 2: But I love that we've seen little ginger boy his
Speaker 2: whole life.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and he's dating me up Dobrev.
Speaker 3: Now isn't that cute? It is cute. I mean, yeah,
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: Her to care about her, but they seem really in love,
Speaker 1: That's all I'm saying. And I and I judge that
Speaker 1: by my close relationship with them via Instagram.
Speaker 2: Wait, I am sorry I will be name dropping in
Speaker 2: this introduction as well. But one time I was in
Speaker 2: an elevator and I turned to a guy and I went, hey,
Speaker 2: you look like that Olympian and he goes, I am
Speaker 2: and I went congrats, dude, and it was Apollo on
Speaker 2: No speed Skater, So that was thrilling for me.
Speaker 1: I was like when I went up to that guy
Speaker 1: Michael Battalucho or whatever, and was like, you look like
Speaker 1: that guy from the practice, and he's like, I am
Speaker 1: that guy.
Speaker 3: I am.
Speaker 5: Oh.
Speaker 2: And we didn't even mention Mary J. Blige because we
Speaker 2: were so into the California of it all. But I
Speaker 2: told him I was like, I couldn't stop staring at
Speaker 2: her thighs, and he goes, yeah, the world was looking
Speaker 2: at her thighs, like You're not alone.
Speaker 1: The mine of her outfit was to draw your eyes
Speaker 1: to the thighs.
Speaker 3: Yeah, draw your eyes to the thighs.
Speaker 2: That's a rule of Cultureless culture says, we need to
Speaker 2: make our own rules of culture. What do we do?
Speaker 2: What do we say? The prize are in the eyes?
Speaker 2: What did you say? Your eyes are drawn to the thighs.
Speaker 2: Your eyes are drawn to the thighs. I like that.
Speaker 2: I like that so much. I said something todayana FaceTime
Speaker 2: with a friend that they really really liked. I said
Speaker 2: something like, I'm obsessed with that person, and I was like,
Speaker 2: I don't have another choice, and then they said why
Speaker 2: and I go, well, because I would have been jealous,
Speaker 2: so it might as well just be a fan.
Speaker 3: That's so true. Choose fandom, choose fandom.
Speaker 2: I was like, if I wasn't obsessed with her, I
Speaker 2: would be jealous, So yeah, might as well give her
Speaker 2: all my money.
Speaker 1: I don't know, ye, yeah, no other way, no other way.
Speaker 2: We have huge news.
Speaker 3: All right, guys. It's the moment that many of you
Speaker 3: have been waiting.
Speaker 2: For if you live on only one part of the country.
Speaker 2: But we are very excited to announce.
Speaker 1: Lisa always tries to do a drum roll, but it's
Speaker 1: always snapping you. Oh, whenever you try to do a
Speaker 1: drum roll at snapping. Guys, We're going on tour.
Speaker 3: We're so going. Yeah, we're so excited.
Speaker 1: If you go to That's messed Up Live dot com,
Speaker 1: that will take you to a page with all the
Speaker 1: ticket links. We're going to be doing shows in Los Angeles, Tempe, Arizona.
Speaker 3: Seattle, Portland, San.
Speaker 1: Diego, and Denver and Irvine, Southern California. So we're gonna
Speaker 1: be a little bit all over the West, the Pacific Northwest.
Speaker 1: We're excited and this is just you know, our first
Speaker 1: tour hopefully and hopefully we'll be east soon and so
Speaker 1: come and buy tickets and come see us, and we're
Speaker 1: gonna have an awesome show for you guys live.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're excited.
Speaker 2: If you're we don't know what we're doing yet, but
Speaker 2: we'll figure it out by then. No, it's really thrilling.
Speaker 2: And if you have I mean, don't be annoying about it,
Speaker 2: but if you have some suggestions or hardcore requests of
Speaker 2: what you'd like to see from us, as long as
Speaker 2: it's not taking off our clothes, send us a message,
Speaker 2: send us a message, because I'm yeah, but I'm thrilled.
Speaker 3: We got to get some outfits going.
Speaker 1: Even if you have people that don't listen to the pod,
Speaker 1: maybe try to bring them, Like, we really want to
Speaker 1: sell tickets so that we can come to more cities. Basically,
Speaker 1: so support us and come see us live. And we
Speaker 1: want to meet you guys, cause Lisa's gotten to meet
Speaker 1: a lot of you out on.
Speaker 3: Her stand up stuff.
Speaker 1: I'm not touring us touring stand up as hardcore as
Speaker 1: she is, so I'm excited to meet a lot of
Speaker 1: you guys.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're we're to go and I do the meet
Speaker 2: and greets after we will talk to you guys.
Speaker 3: So we have nothing to you know, we'll be there.
Speaker 2: We'll take some.
Speaker 3: Shots we have to do in Tempe, and we're gonna be.
Speaker 2: But yeah, you'll see all the artwork and all the stuff,
Speaker 2: and it's like, it's fucking cool. We're doing it. We're
Speaker 2: a hip podcast that's out on the road. Baby. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So there's more details on our socials and that's messed
Speaker 1: up live dot com.
Speaker 3: All right, should we start today's episode? It's a good one. Yeah,
Speaker 3: all right.
Speaker 2: Hello, Okay, we've already said hello, my bad. Okay, all right,
Speaker 2: so we're gonna get started. I don't know.
Speaker 3: Scourge, scorgeg scourge, What does that mean? Scourge?
Speaker 1: I think technically means to burn, like it's like to
Speaker 1: burn something.
Speaker 2: But okay, that makes sense, that makes sense.
Speaker 1: But something that's a scourge is like something that's like
Speaker 1: a blight, like a horrible thing, you know.
Speaker 2: I don't know. Well, you shouldn't have used the word blight.
Speaker 2: That definitely put us two steps back. I was I
Speaker 2: was on track though, I was season two, so that's exciting.
Speaker 3: Episode twenty one.
Speaker 2: It is the season finale, so you know it's gonna
Speaker 2: be jam packed.
Speaker 1: Also, I read this little tedbit online that this is
Speaker 1: the final episode before nine to eleven because like this
Speaker 1: this aired in May, so this is the last episode
Speaker 1: where you see the twin Towers in the credits.
Speaker 3: Just a little sidbit.
Speaker 2: That is a very good TIDDAYESX in the City had
Speaker 2: to change a lot of things, definitely.
Speaker 3: Wait, did I ever tell you that?
Speaker 1: Like literally a week before nine to eleven, home depot
Speaker 1: had this sticky wallpaper and my friends and I put
Speaker 1: up a full skyline in our college living room of
Speaker 1: New York City, and then a week later was nine
Speaker 1: to eleven, So.
Speaker 2: You take it down?
Speaker 3: We didn't take it down the whole year.
Speaker 1: We were like our twin towers are still standing, and
Speaker 1: people would come into our room and be like whoa.
Speaker 3: Like everybody was like, this is a lot.
Speaker 2: Did anyone draw a plane? And like pretend? No. No,
Speaker 2: we didn't do anything to fresh. It was too fresh.
Speaker 2: I have done something disrespectful before. When our friends, the Joyces,
Speaker 2: were leaving Chicago, we did a big going away party
Speaker 2: and I don't remember what, but there was a nine
Speaker 2: to eleven themed poster. But I ca're there were people fall.
Speaker 2: It wasn't good We'll ask, We'll ask. It was not
Speaker 2: in good taste, and it was in marker. I think
Speaker 2: they threw that one out. I don't think they kept
Speaker 2: that one for memories. So, you know, it opens on
Speaker 2: an I at first thought wealthy, and then I changed
Speaker 2: my mind, but an educated couple. I'm wearing tan and
Speaker 2: beige trench codes crossing a sexy New York street.
Speaker 3: She's like, oh, let's play is fucking shitty.
Speaker 2: I'm done.
Speaker 3: I'm done with these plays.
Speaker 2: And he goes, it was nominated for a Tony and
Speaker 2: she goes, yeah, that's why I didn't win. Now I
Speaker 2: know why, and love that. You could tell they've maybe
Speaker 2: been married for a while. So he goes, what about
Speaker 2: your shitty cooking shows and she says, well, they don't
Speaker 2: cost seventy five dollars a ticket, So that's why I
Speaker 2: was like, Oh, they're not rich, but maybe a Columbia professor,
Speaker 2: you know, like in the upper middle class. Yeah, we
Speaker 2: don't even. We've never seen these people. Again, I don't
Speaker 2: know why I'm analyzing them. So fuck these people. So
Speaker 2: then this guy in a hood bumps into the man
Speaker 2: knocking him off his feet for a moment. He runs
Speaker 2: into a cab. He's a mess, he's limping, he's out
Speaker 2: of control. He disappears. The wife goes, oh, no, look
Speaker 2: at your coat. Husband is covered in blood, covered in blood,
Speaker 2: and he's holding a playbill, which what a great props department. Yeah,
Speaker 2: what a great props department. So that was very exciting.
Speaker 2: Back to the blood. What smells? Oh my god? And
Speaker 2: then they see there's a fire scourged near the trash,
Speaker 2: so they go to investigate. And now it's time for
Speaker 2: all the detectives to show up.
Speaker 3: So what is the fire? What's going on?
Speaker 2: Stabler's in a baseball hat, Benson's talking to the trench
Speaker 2: coat duo, and they got to work with a sketch artist.
Speaker 2: So then Benson and Stabler are working and saying the
Speaker 2: fire was a sex worker who got burned.
Speaker 3: So did she pick up the wrong john? What's going on?
Speaker 2: And then we get a fire department chief that is
Speaker 2: so old he should have retired maybe forty five years ago. Like,
Speaker 2: I don't even know if he can handle the coat.
Speaker 2: It looks so heavy on him. There's no way this
Speaker 2: man is still working. But he's the chief. So he says,
Speaker 2: the bad guy put garbage on her and set that
Speaker 2: on fire, so that sucks. He said, if the fire
Speaker 2: house wasn't right around the corner, that she would have
Speaker 2: like fully burnt to death, but because they were so close,
Speaker 2: they were able to preserve the body. So bad news,
Speaker 2: Melinda Warner, tons of bad news. She's crouched over the body.
Speaker 2: We get genitals or mutilated fluid present. Fifty percent of
Speaker 2: our body burns. And then her throat is slit from
Speaker 2: ear to ear and then she's fillayed from torso to genitals,
Speaker 2: and then they go butchered and barbecued, and it's like,
Speaker 2: did we have to? You know, did we have to?
Speaker 1: They make that joke all the time. They're always like,
Speaker 1: first he got toasted, then he got roasted. Like they're
Speaker 1: always making little jokes when.
Speaker 2: It's the fire, when it's the guy, you know, when
Speaker 2: it's a sex worker covered in garbage.
Speaker 1: No, in another episode, there was a guy running around
Speaker 1: member covered burning and they were like, first he got
Speaker 1: to and his alcohol level was high, and they were
Speaker 1: like toasted and then roasted like the love. They love
Speaker 1: a butcher, they love a barbecue pun. Yeah, yeah, you're right, right.
Speaker 2: You're right. So now we're back from the credits. The
Speaker 2: credits happen after a butcher and barbecue, just a nice
Speaker 2: killer bit before we get into it. So we're back.
Speaker 2: We're talking to the street vendor that the man bounced into.
Speaker 2: He was preaching some religious gibberish and no more information.
Speaker 2: The sex worker, though, is a regular. Her name is
Speaker 2: Cassie and she is known well in the community. Munch
Speaker 2: and Fins show up, and you know, they all gossip
Speaker 2: and disperse to go do their jobs. So the boys
Speaker 2: go to the souvenir shop to ask some questions about
Speaker 2: the man who is in there earlier, and he goes, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: he was weird and he had a beard. He asked
Speaker 2: for water, but he sent him to the deli. But
Speaker 2: first he picked up a magazine and ripped it open
Speaker 2: and was yelling, and so the guy beat the shit
Speaker 2: out of him with a statue of liberty, which I love.
Speaker 3: So he hit him with a Lady liberty. Is that
Speaker 3: not a metaphor for New York City?
Speaker 1: I don't know what else, because he reached into his coat,
Speaker 1: so he got scared.
Speaker 2: So that's where the limping's coming from. Getting beaten by
Speaker 2: this statue, and the detectives take the statue and the
Speaker 2: you know, the magazine for evidence, and the guy's like,
Speaker 2: that's thirty dollars and it's like, bro, write it off.
Speaker 2: You know what I mean, Write it off, Write it off, honey.
Speaker 2: So we're back in the squad room. We're Stabler Benson Kragan.
Speaker 2: We find more information about Cassie. She's twenty three. And
Speaker 2: then the purp was white with a dark coat and
Speaker 2: under the influence. Finn says, maybe PCP. Sadly, no prints,
Speaker 2: not from the peanuts stand, not from souvenirs, no matching
Speaker 2: prints in the system, from anything any Did you ever
Speaker 2: buy peanuts in the streets of New York?
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I like the little sweet ones.
Speaker 2: You're a peanut girl. I love the smell. But I've
Speaker 2: never jumped and did it.
Speaker 1: Would probably say I did it five times in eleven years,
Speaker 1: Like I wouldn't do it all the time, but I
Speaker 1: would do it once in a while and be like,
Speaker 1: you know what, I got three bucks burning a hole
Speaker 1: in my pocket, I'll buy like ten peanuts.
Speaker 2: I'm trying to think I actually didn't do the street
Speaker 2: vendors as much as I pictured in my fantasy.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean I became a vegetarian four years into living
Speaker 1: in New York, so I really didn't do hot dogs
Speaker 1: very much.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm a Chicago girl. The hot dogs in New
Speaker 2: York are trash.
Speaker 3: Come for me.
Speaker 2: I don't give a shit. It's not pure beef. They're skinny.
Speaker 2: They suck, got it. I want a fat beef dog.
Speaker 1: Okay, mm hm, put that on a shirt. I want
Speaker 1: a fat beef dog.
Speaker 2: Merch. No, I would get schwarma meat meat. Yeah, I
Speaker 2: see myself getting meats. I would get an egg and
Speaker 2: cheese or a coffee on the way to something. Sometimes,
Speaker 2: m most so many bodega but I've never the peanuts
Speaker 2: one time. One time, I will all right, where are we?
Speaker 2: I always get distracted with New York goodness and snacks
Speaker 2: always a distraction for me. So Benson and Stabler go
Speaker 2: check up on the autopsy, and Munch and Finn are
Speaker 2: gonna go talk to Cassie's coworkers on the street. So
Speaker 2: Munch she gives one of the girls coffee and they
Speaker 2: actually brought seventeen dollars worth of coffee and donuts from
Speaker 2: the girls. And he said, if that's not respect, I
Speaker 2: don't know what.
Speaker 3: Is in two thousand and one. That's a lot of
Speaker 3: coffee and donuts.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I brought my parents donuts quickly today and my
Speaker 2: dad was disappointed. I didn't bring a whole dozen. And
Speaker 2: it's like, you did just have heart surgery, relaxed. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I brought you four donuts. That's enough. Okay, that's enough.
Speaker 2: My mom goes he wanted a box. I go, well,
Speaker 2: you got a bag. You got a bag. So, uh,
Speaker 2: you know, they give the scoop. They give the scoop
Speaker 2: on the guy that they saw Cassie go away with
Speaker 2: beard again, crazy eyes. They talked a moment the name
Speaker 2: of the purpose Daniel, and one of them did have
Speaker 2: a bad feeling, but you know, she laughed and Cassie
Speaker 2: said I could take care of myself and yeah, and
Speaker 2: then how was that?
Speaker 3: Now, who's going to take care of her little girl?
Speaker 1: So, which is just sad, and they like, never we
Speaker 1: never see the little girl. We never find the answer
Speaker 1: to that. They just like throw in an extra bit
Speaker 1: of sadness. They're like, oh, she had a kid.
Speaker 3: Moving on.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, because as a society, I feel like we
Speaker 2: treat a lot of people that work on the street
Speaker 2: as like, so dispensable, disposable, not mattering, but you should
Speaker 2: matter just for being a person.
Speaker 3: But it's nice to speak like No.
Speaker 2: Now people will miss her and she had value in
Speaker 2: this planet. And yeah, why am I fighting with someone
Speaker 2: that didn't even say anything to me? Okay, we're now
Speaker 2: at Melinda's house aka the Morgue. So forty two stab wounds?
Speaker 2: Are you fucking kidding me? Are you kidding me? Slits?
Speaker 2: One blood type double a edge serrated on each side,
Speaker 2: knife six inches long. This happened in a frenzy, a
Speaker 2: real feever dream, not planned or methodical in any way.
Speaker 2: And what we leave Melinda's and we're back at the precinct.
Speaker 2: Craigan says he's got something. The seamen found in her
Speaker 2: was in the sex offender database, so that's good. It's
Speaker 2: in Staten Island. Eh, that's a problem. So Stabler is
Speaker 2: taking coats off a coat pole.
Speaker 3: Have you ever noticed this coat area in the precinct before?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 3: I don't think I have.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if not a coat hook, because but like a
Speaker 2: pole of hooks like you would have at a school
Speaker 2: play we got out for the parents or something. But no,
Speaker 2: I never noticed. I never have noticed them grabbing coats before,
Speaker 2: so that was just a nice little treat for those
Speaker 2: who did notice. And he did great object work, you know,
Speaker 2: playing with the hangars. So they're taking They're gonna go
Speaker 2: figure out this DNA stuff. Talk to the guy. The
Speaker 2: journey shows up. I don't think this is the guy? Okay?
Speaker 3: Am I going to talk about him less?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 2: So a man in a hard hack goes, oh, hey, Norm,
Speaker 2: you know the cops are here. Norm not happy. It's hot.
Speaker 2: Norm's hot them. He starts, and they teased that Finn
Speaker 2: was in a car, so we obviously know that Finn
Speaker 2: will now trap him. They will arrest him. He screams,
Speaker 2: I didn't do it, and why are you running? This
Speaker 2: is classic classic take a drink, But he is confused.
Speaker 3: About the murder charge.
Speaker 2: He goes, whatever, I picks up a horse, so what
Speaker 2: And it's like it's against your parole, big boy, Like,
Speaker 2: you can't be doing that shit. But he's denying doing
Speaker 2: any of the slicing and dicing. He said he paid
Speaker 2: her and left no murder, and then uh oh, another
Speaker 2: victim was murdered last night, so they have to go
Speaker 2: back to the streets.
Speaker 3: The roommate came home and found her.
Speaker 2: The cop that they meet on the scene of the crime,
Speaker 2: he said he spent fourteen years on the job and
Speaker 2: this is the first body that made him puke. The
Speaker 2: perp did a real number on her. So there's a
Speaker 2: lot of blood. It doesn't look I don't like the
Speaker 2: way it looks dead. Twelve hours he slits the throat
Speaker 2: so they can't scream again. You know, we learned that
Speaker 2: that's a signature. I guess Benson's like, what do you
Speaker 2: think's wrong with this guy? And Stabler goes, yeah, he
Speaker 2: thinks he's Jack the Ripper, So you know, I love that.
Speaker 2: Not Jack the Ripper, but you know when they mentioned
Speaker 2: real crimes. Now we're back at the office and Cabot's
Speaker 2: mad about something to Cragan. YadA YadA, Suspect Cragan, get
Speaker 2: us a warrant, YadA yah. You know that's the classic
Speaker 2: fight tayl as old as time. The das and the
Speaker 2: cops just fighting it out who can break the rules
Speaker 2: or get evidence faster or more so. We see Munch
Speaker 2: and he is now filling in with the idea of
Speaker 2: victim number two.
Speaker 3: Her name is Teresa Folsom.
Speaker 2: She's twenty four and she's a publicist in the publishing
Speaker 2: world for books, and he's bringing coffee to the roommate
Speaker 2: and she is crying hard. I feel like this is
Speaker 2: the first time in the history of SVU that a
Speaker 2: person looks accurately upset at what's happening. She's not you know,
Speaker 2: putting stickers on a caon, she's not rearranging shelves, she's
Speaker 2: not organizing receipts.
Speaker 3: Like yeah, especially young people.
Speaker 1: I feel like when it's young people, like roommates in
Speaker 1: their twenties, it's usually like, who's gonna pay the other
Speaker 1: half of my rent? I can't afford this place alone,
Speaker 1: or like like really insensitive shit.
Speaker 3: I didn't even know her check her stuff.
Speaker 1: She was kind of Yeah, this girl's really sad and
Speaker 1: actually having a human reaction.
Speaker 3: No, this scene really took me by storm.
Speaker 2: I like focused on it because I was like, I
Speaker 2: think this might be the first time a witness cries
Speaker 2: or looks upset or holds her head or like likes
Speaker 2: her friend who's dead and disappeared. So yeah, she's not like,
Speaker 2: actually I have class to get to like I Yes.
Speaker 2: So I'm really impressed with the acting and the choices
Speaker 2: made here. Standout performance, crying, and she's she's like apologizing
Speaker 2: for crying, and she's fighting with her hair and face
Speaker 2: like she is really stressed about it. She's giving details
Speaker 2: that Teresa went home early from a party and Rebecca
Speaker 2: stayed at her boyfriend's house. So Teresa went home, Rebecca
Speaker 2: stayed out the leaps at her boyfriends. Munch was asking
Speaker 2: if she was a sex worker, and she turns on him,
Speaker 2: my best friend is dead and I don't have to
Speaker 2: listen to this.
Speaker 3: And they're like, girl, no offense.
Speaker 2: We're just figuring stuff out, like we were on the
Speaker 2: side of the sex workers.
Speaker 1: But they are only are they only asking if she's
Speaker 1: a sex worker because of how she's dressed, because she
Speaker 1: was dressed to go clubbing, right. I think it's because
Speaker 1: the first one was because the first one was a
Speaker 1: sex worker too, okay. Yeah, and maybe the outfit tipped
Speaker 1: it off, but I think it was just like a
Speaker 1: Jack the ripper pattern, m okay.
Speaker 3: So they're like trying to put pieces together.
Speaker 2: She said no, Actually, Teresa had a boyfriend in Boston
Speaker 2: and she was not promiscuous. It would not pick up
Speaker 2: a guy, and she is squeaky clean. They confirm not
Speaker 2: even a traffic ticket, but maybe she doesn't have a license.
Speaker 2: But whatever, Okay, Bence, that's always like such a.
Speaker 3: What if there was Like whoa she has like forty
Speaker 3: traffic tickets?
Speaker 1: She deserved to get murdered. This girl is a good point.
Speaker 1: Does we know how to feed the meter?
Speaker 3: Oof?
Speaker 2: Such a good point. Benson, though, still thinks it's plausible
Speaker 2: for this guy in custody to have done two murders
Speaker 2: that they have and I don't buy it, Like I
Speaker 2: just don't see it. But two murders and enough time
Speaker 2: to catch the Staten Island ferry on the way home,
Speaker 2: and Munch comes in with the science to be like no, no, no, no.
Speaker 2: Blood found at the recent murder scene does not match
Speaker 2: this guy we have in custody. So Stabler's still like
Speaker 2: let's book him on a parole violation and let's get
Speaker 2: back to work.
Speaker 3: Or it's like let the guy go. He just had sex,
Speaker 3: Like let's let him go, like.
Speaker 2: He paid for it, he was safe.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Lee, you're right, I agree with you.
Speaker 2: But like Finn is like, maybe he's done this before
Speaker 2: in other places? Is this a foreshadow or a throwaway
Speaker 2: away line? We'll see, But they're gonna see if there's
Speaker 2: an mo somewhere else that's happening. Bead WoT comes in
Speaker 2: and starts giving a role up, like I feel like
Speaker 2: we're in a play or a book report. You know,
Speaker 2: every the audience, there's all the whole squad is paying
Speaker 2: it to. So George's George Kwang's analysis is this guy
Speaker 2: comes out at night, he attacks prostitutes or women who
Speaker 2: he thinks are prostitutes. Much brings up the ripper again. Uh,
Speaker 2: and Craigan goes, shut up and listen to George. I
Speaker 2: can't tell if I made that up or not, but
Speaker 2: I like it. And he says the guy might suffer
Speaker 2: from schizophrenia. They ask what's up with the fire, and
Speaker 2: George is getting devil vibes, hell vibes, like pure vibes.
Speaker 2: You know, was he drunk or high or just schizophrenia,
Speaker 2: mentally ill since child or adulthood. Maybe he's been institutionalized
Speaker 2: in the past, He's not been able to keep a job.
Speaker 2: He lives alone, strong religious delusions and voices, impulsive, disorganized,
Speaker 2: unpredictable and will not stop until you stop him.
Speaker 5: Who.
Speaker 2: So that was a nice rundown from George and Cabot
Speaker 2: comes in with papers and Okay, now I don't know
Speaker 2: why I hate her so much, but she comes in
Speaker 2: with the newspaper because I do love her and I
Speaker 2: love her short haircut here and I'm obsessed. But they
Speaker 2: are annoying. The DA's annoy me in this show, and
Speaker 2: maybe because they always.
Speaker 1: Run in and they're just like, well, the media has
Speaker 1: the story, now what are you guys even fucking doing?
Speaker 1: And it's like they're literally it's body after body. They
Speaker 1: just found the second body, like you know, they're.
Speaker 3: Working on it.
Speaker 2: And if this was any other police department or show,
Speaker 2: I would go fuck the police.
Speaker 3: But you know, our squad's working.
Speaker 2: Hard, like our our babies do, not like lazy it
Speaker 2: up stablers and has seen his children in weeks.
Speaker 3: Okay, like they're fucking working.
Speaker 2: But you know, the newspapers are calling him the night
Speaker 2: ripper and the community is scared. So now they're still
Speaker 2: trying to find the cab from up top that like
Speaker 2: he bumped into and there was like a fight situation.
Speaker 3: Maybe he wasn't a cab. They're looking for this cab.
Speaker 2: I wasn't sure where this cab fit in, but there's
Speaker 2: a cab and there's evidence and this lead's gonna go.
Speaker 2: They found it. They found it. So the cab driver
Speaker 2: they look at the the paper and this is like
Speaker 2: the eighteen hundreds that there's not even a computer in sight,
Speaker 2: like everyone's logging everything in with paper, and his reported
Speaker 2: wages don't match the mileage that he wrote in on
Speaker 2: so they have to go talk to him.
Speaker 3: They visit the driver.
Speaker 2: It's the apartment of siko Obeg and I said that correctly,
Speaker 2: and they're talking to him on May second, So shout
Speaker 2: out to my friend Alex Crawley and my niece.
Speaker 3: May second is their birthday.
Speaker 2: So they ask for information and he's lying and saying
Speaker 2: he doesn't know, he doesn't know, but he's got to
Speaker 2: admit it. And basically he lets his cousin drive to
Speaker 2: make extra money to send back home.
Speaker 3: And he picked up the killer.
Speaker 2: But they were breaking the rules so they couldn't like
Speaker 2: say or do anything about it. But his cousin saw
Speaker 2: the bloody clothes and face and that the man ducked
Speaker 2: when the cops strove by, so he is in his
Speaker 2: right not right frame of mind. But if you're hiding
Speaker 2: from the cops, you know what you're doing is wrong,
Speaker 2: So I.
Speaker 3: Think that's a clue.
Speaker 2: And the cousin says, he was like very scared of
Speaker 2: this man Daniel, like he was scared, medium high, wild eyes,
Speaker 2: bushy beard. So same description that we've been getting. So
Speaker 2: he went downtown and he paid with a bloody twenty
Speaker 2: and didn't wait for change, and they're like give us
Speaker 2: the money. He goes, I already spent it. Who's accepting
Speaker 2: bloody twenty dollar bills? I am not sure? Would you
Speaker 2: take a bloody twenty? No, I wouldn't, but I guess
Speaker 2: maybe he washed it off. You can like wash dollar bills.
Speaker 2: I don't know. Wild Now we're trying to get evidence
Speaker 2: from the cab, but it's like how many people have
Speaker 2: been in and out of this cab?
Speaker 3: Like what are we gonna find?
Speaker 2: But they do the luminol thing with the blue light
Speaker 2: and there is blood, but fuck Jack strikes again, so
Speaker 2: that's a bummer. So they have to run and they
Speaker 2: end up at this like pinball machine place game stooled.
Speaker 2: It's a fun bar, fun bar. A man is bleeding
Speaker 2: on a stretcher, so calm. I just like don't understand.
Speaker 2: Usually they're like being wheeled away and they could barely talk.
Speaker 2: This guy's bleeding from his gut fully and just upright
Speaker 2: having like very long conversations with everyone.
Speaker 3: Details.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he is not phased by being stabbed in the
Speaker 2: fucking stomach, So he's chatting it up. He's uh so
Speaker 2: what he says is he's washing his hands in the
Speaker 2: bathroom and this is gonna get bad. So a kid
Speaker 2: is at the urinal and this crazy guy comes in
Speaker 2: running screaming about machines controlling people, slits.
Speaker 3: The boy's throat.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, so just like that, like he just
Speaker 2: came in and slit this boy with no thought, Like
Speaker 2: that's scary. So this guy is a fucking hero. Tried
Speaker 2: to grab the knife, attacked this guy. This guy stabbed
Speaker 2: him in the stomach. The dad came in and ran
Speaker 2: straight towards the kid like didn't see what was happening
Speaker 2: because he was so focused on his child being slit
Speaker 2: on the face. Like that's even more traumatic, I bet,
Speaker 2: But so he since he doesn't pay attention, and the
Speaker 2: guy is like yelling and trying to warn him, but
Speaker 2: too late, and the guy stabs the daddy and slits
Speaker 2: his neck as well.
Speaker 3: So daddy's son next slits.
Speaker 2: Craigan says, Huang is on the way and he can
Speaker 2: do better profiling on the scene, and there's so much blood.
Speaker 3: It is not good. Yeah, it's a really and then.
Speaker 2: This is really sad and this kind of sticks with
Speaker 2: me always. But like the mom of the murdered son
Speaker 2: and husband is like Kolmato's like truly like is in
Speaker 2: a trance, very high levels of acting, like tears are
Speaker 2: wells in the eyes but not dropping. It's just like
Speaker 2: a pretty incredible but she is sad, not in the
Speaker 2: fright right frame of mind. She's she keeps talking about, well,
Speaker 2: I got a taken, we got a pack, We're going
Speaker 2: back to Oregon. It's like, you're not going to Oregon, honey,
Speaker 2: you're staying here. So and the kids so sad. He
Speaker 2: lived two minutes like bleeding out. Oh my god, I
Speaker 2: don't even think I caught that detail. No, yeah, two
Speaker 2: minutes bleeding Oh. And it is the same knife. And
Speaker 2: now we learn not targeting sex workers. So four victims
Speaker 2: in twenty four hours, and it's scary because it's a
Speaker 2: serial killer. You can't profile because he's acting at random.
Speaker 2: The city is scared and like they're all chatting. The
Speaker 2: reward is up to one hundred thousand dollars. Any tips
Speaker 2: to get him. There's like fifty plus cops. People are
Speaker 2: coming on their days off. They're gonna get over time.
Speaker 2: And Craigan says, we will take every single tip. Seriously,
Speaker 2: let's go, let's solve this crime. So everyone disperses and
Speaker 2: has assignments except for Stabler, and he's upset. He's like, Daddy, Craigan,
Speaker 2: why don't I get an assignment? This is my case.
Speaker 2: And Craigan goes, I need someone to trust in charge
Speaker 2: while I'm with the bosses, so you know, and now
Speaker 2: he feels good about himself. He gets a little hall
Speaker 2: monitor sash. So the mom comes in from fresh crying
Speaker 2: and she's still confused and is like, hey, we are moving.
Speaker 2: We have to sell our house. And it's like, I
Speaker 2: hope you get back to reality or keep living in
Speaker 2: this delusional state. I mean, either one seems terrible. Which
Speaker 2: one's worse? Not sure. We'll put up a poll. Would
Speaker 2: you rather know your family is dead and be sad
Speaker 2: or live in a in a home?
Speaker 1: Yeah, she's in like a fugue state or something. She
Speaker 1: just seems like she's like yeah, we got to finish
Speaker 1: the stuff that we like. It's really it is really
Speaker 1: good acting. I'm very sad for her.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they want her to snap into it, but she collapses.
Speaker 2: She collapses into Stabler, cries and Stabler goes, hey, go
Speaker 2: with this cup, so he gets rid of her.
Speaker 1: He's not in the mood for that, right, He's like,
Speaker 1: you'll get you a sandwich or whatever you need. Yeah, like,
Speaker 1: I hope it's a good one.
Speaker 2: Kathy calls, of course, and Stabler says, I just like
Speaker 2: to hear her, you know your voice. So that was sweet.
Speaker 2: Munches is with Melinda blah blah blah. Transfer evidence. We
Speaker 2: get a sixty forty cottonwool blend found in all the places,
Speaker 2: so he's been wearing the same thing when he's killed
Speaker 2: all four victims. So clues. You know, Melinda's rich with clues.
Speaker 2: Craigan runs to a bunch of the detectives and says, wait, wait, wait, wait,
Speaker 2: we just got a call from a disturbing. It's in
Speaker 2: Washington Square Park and civilians are holding a guy they
Speaker 2: think is the guilty man because he was raving about
Speaker 2: religious shit and they beat the shit out of him.
Speaker 2: So very Richard Ramirez, the communities taking control and they're
Speaker 2: bringing this guy in, except it's not the guy at all.
Speaker 2: Finn goes, you see this guy beard and hair, you morons,
Speaker 2: and like this is a bald, clean shaven man, and
Speaker 2: one of the guys is like, hey, shaved it off.
Speaker 2: But I just love Finn being funny here. It really
Speaker 2: made me happy. And I love how all of them
Speaker 2: have queens and Staten Island vibes. But we're in Washington
Speaker 2: Square vibe. We're like, what was it? You know, maybe well,
Speaker 2: maybe they're all doing construction in the Neighborhodsah.
Speaker 3: It's like, I don't think the NYU students are a
Speaker 3: part of the mob.
Speaker 2: You know, I love Washington Square Park.
Speaker 3: No, me too.
Speaker 1: But you're also going to see more than one person
Speaker 1: ranting about religion loudly in Washington Square Park. You gotta
Speaker 1: check the you gotta check the one the sketch, you know,
Speaker 1: like you can't just.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, you can actually pick one of your favorite
Speaker 2: pigeon people. There's multipless, multiple pigeon people hang in a
Speaker 2: lot of a lot of drums, a lot of plastic
Speaker 2: bucket drums, a lot of fountains, a lot of people
Speaker 2: filming Man on the streets. It's a really a lot
Speaker 2: of dominoes, chess, skateboards.
Speaker 1: Ugh, it's I was a planted man on the street
Speaker 1: in Washington Square Park once, of course, like for like
Speaker 1: a gum thing like commercial with this other comedian and
Speaker 1: I had to pretend like I was just a person
Speaker 1: he was walking up too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean Washington Square Park because it's like pretty
Speaker 2: but in the middle of stuff, but there's not trains nearby,
Speaker 2: so it is like serene.
Speaker 3: But I do like it there. It feels very it's
Speaker 3: just very iconic New York.
Speaker 2: Yeah. You know, I was listening to Alana Glazer on
Speaker 2: a podcast and that's where she.
Speaker 3: Met her husband.
Speaker 2: Oh really yeah, Like he was walking by and in
Speaker 2: her head she was like, who is that hottie? And
Speaker 2: then she didn't really go talk to him for whatever reason,
Speaker 2: but they made eye contact and then he walked back
Speaker 2: around and they talked set up a day and you know,
Speaker 2: ano they're married with a child.
Speaker 3: So with a little baby.
Speaker 2: She's so cute. So shout out to meeting love in
Speaker 2: the park. So we're back from Washington Square Park reminiscing,
Speaker 2: and we're back to the murder do you guys, remember,
Speaker 2: So they're gonna arrest all the people for assaults.
Speaker 3: So that's good. But much understands.
Speaker 2: He goes, people are scared, and when people are scared,
Speaker 2: they do strange things. So now we're back at the priestcingcs.
Speaker 2: Everyone's tired. It's nighttime. It's four am, Stabler says, and
Speaker 2: he's letting people go to sleep, but not at home
Speaker 2: but in the cribs. So you know, Finn goes, you
Speaker 2: don't have to ask me twice a man after my
Speaker 2: own heart. So he's gonna get a couple hours because
Speaker 2: that's my schedule right now. I'm like sleeping. Well, I
Speaker 2: slept from like four to seven and then from ten
Speaker 2: to eleven forty five today. That's been my sleeping schedule.
Speaker 2: It's not good. I will die of a heart attack anyways,
Speaker 2: not on wood. But if Lady Gaga can do it,
Speaker 2: I can do it. That's what I always say. It's like,
Speaker 2: you dream of being success. Well, well guess what successful
Speaker 2: people don't do. Sleep. They don't sleep. They don't sleep.
Speaker 2: They gotta do radio. Honey. Oh I talked to I
Speaker 2: didn't you know, Michelle Collins radio show, and she was
Speaker 2: saying while she was in London. A man was following
Speaker 2: her and she couldn't lose him, and she started screaming
Speaker 2: and a man from up in an apartment building said
Speaker 2: do you need help, and came down and him and
Speaker 2: his girlfriend walked her all the way home.
Speaker 3: Wow, yeah, I didn't know.
Speaker 1: I mean, I've been following her European adventures very closely.
Speaker 1: I guess she didn't post about that. That's terrifying.
Speaker 2: No, we just talked about it, and I don't even
Speaker 2: know how it came up. But I think people just
Speaker 2: talk to me about murder and rape now and yeah,
Speaker 2: any sort of assaults that go on or creeps that
Speaker 2: they find. But then they also think we're an encyclopedia.
Speaker 2: They're like, you know about this case, and it's like
Speaker 2: not unless no, get away from it. I know stuff. Benson, though,
Speaker 2: of course, doesn't want to sleep. She's a martyr to
Speaker 2: the cause, she's too pissed to sleep, so she she
Speaker 2: offers help. So they're going through bunches of tips and
Speaker 2: papers and they're going through it and there's a little
Speaker 2: tense moment where Benson's reading them out loud and Sailor says,
Speaker 2: you don't have to read them out loud, and she's like, Wow,
Speaker 2: someone's in a mood, and I feel like this is
Speaker 2: something that could happen to us. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I don't really like to have people read things out
Speaker 1: loud to me. I'm like, can you just show it
Speaker 1: to me, like show me the paper or email it
Speaker 1: to me? Like, I don't want to be read to
Speaker 1: Oh I thought that, No, you would be reading it
Speaker 1: out loud. I don't like to be read out loud too,
Speaker 1: So I'm sorry if I've done that to you.
Speaker 2: No, oh, because I don't care, but because I'm just
Speaker 2: remembering her mot like you like to I bet you'd
Speaker 2: be like, oh, he was found here. Okay.
Speaker 1: Well well no, A quick little detail is fine. Reading
Speaker 1: a sentence or two is fine. When someone's like, okay,
Speaker 1: here's two paragraphs on it, I.
Speaker 2: Don't like that.
Speaker 1: I'm like, can you just send it over? I really
Speaker 1: don't want to be like, it's not storytime for me
Speaker 1: right now. No, and I have to look while you're
Speaker 1: at least reading it or something.
Speaker 2: Yeah. But then so he cracks his knuckles and he
Speaker 2: realizes that he spends more time with her than his
Speaker 2: own family. But then he says no offense and it's like,
Speaker 2: what's the offense. Yeah, it's just a fact, like I
Speaker 2: I spend a lot of time with you.
Speaker 3: No offense Like that makes.
Speaker 1: No Yeah, and no offense implies I hate that I
Speaker 1: spend a lot of time with you.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So Benson says, yeah, we both need a vacation. And
Speaker 2: then she finds a tip that's good. The owner of
Speaker 2: a deli guy like a deli person. He a bodega boy.
Speaker 2: He says that he got a check with bloody fingerprints
Speaker 2: on it. So they go to the deli. It's in
Speaker 2: the safe. Hell fucking yes. The name on the check
Speaker 2: is Paula Varney. They go to the apartment, cute apartment,
Speaker 2: lots of plants, books, frames, magnets, my kind of my
Speaker 2: kind of vibe. There's a fox cookie jar and a
Speaker 2: basket that caught my eye.
Speaker 3: Like, this woman's crafty. She's good.
Speaker 1: You notice so many things that never even enter into
Speaker 1: my eyeballs.
Speaker 3: Job.
Speaker 2: It's her job, you know.
Speaker 1: I know, But I just I don't look as hard
Speaker 1: when I'm not recapping. I will say that, you know,
Speaker 1: but you also just are a real detail oriented for.
Speaker 3: Decor that in a way that I'm not.
Speaker 2: I'm also a cookie jar enthusiast. I do own two jars,
Speaker 2: and in Chicago on Lincoln Ab there used to be
Speaker 2: a cookie jar store that I would frequent I've gifted
Speaker 2: cookie jar I do.
Speaker 3: Like, Okay, I didn't know that.
Speaker 2: It's a fun wedding gift, like if you don't want
Speaker 2: to do a registry and you want to be cooler
Speaker 2: and more fun, like they they make cookie I have
Speaker 2: a Bart Simpson one and a Dalmatian from one hundred
Speaker 2: and one Dalmatians, so it's like you can get I
Speaker 2: got my sister the Flintstones for one of their wedding
Speaker 2: anniversaries and it's like the two couples.
Speaker 3: It's Wilma and fred To holding each other.
Speaker 1: And yeah, that's cute. Yeah, no, that is a cute
Speaker 1: wedding gift idea.
Speaker 2: I just I like that as a gift. But thank you.
Speaker 2: I do notice while things. I did notice what woman
Speaker 2: the you know, what color the woman was wearing. I'm
Speaker 2: not going to say anything, not a word.
Speaker 1: So wait, can I just point out too that this woman,
Speaker 1: Janet Varney, is played by Karen Allen, who is like
Speaker 1: one of my favorite actresses from like the eighties and nineties,
Speaker 1: like I love, love, love her. She plays Bill Murie's
Speaker 1: like love interest in Scrooged. Like she's in so many things.
Speaker 3: I love her. So she's in Scrooged and Scourged, Scourge
Speaker 3: and Scrooged.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Wait, I did not recognize her at all, so I'm glad.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, she's in a movie. She's in a movie
Speaker 1: about the Challenger explosion. I think, like she's in a
Speaker 1: lot of stuff. Like if you look up her IMDb,
Speaker 1: she's great.
Speaker 3: See that's your strength.
Speaker 2: If you see a weir earth thing and you go,
Speaker 2: I looked that name up and it's actually a politician
Speaker 2: that lived there. So I noticed the decor and you
Speaker 2: notice the things that it's like, wait, what is that
Speaker 2: medical condition?
Speaker 3: And then yeah, references I guess I'm more.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you'll go look it up. My favorite is
Speaker 2: you did send me a photo of your son and
Speaker 2: underneath you wrote peka question mark because he was eating
Speaker 2: a car. Yeah, so I really liked that. She says
Speaker 2: she gave the check to her husband, So I think
Speaker 2: this is gonna be the the big clue. And she
Speaker 2: does seem worried it's something happened to him. She says
Speaker 2: he doesn't live here, and but she has two daughters
Speaker 2: eating breakfast.
Speaker 3: They're really cute.
Speaker 2: She does the classics, scurry them off so they get
Speaker 2: changed so they won't be late for school, and.
Speaker 3: She's about to get real.
Speaker 2: She saw him day before yesterday, and she helps support him.
Speaker 2: But he started having problems about three years ago. He
Speaker 2: began losing it. He lost his job. She had to
Speaker 2: go back to teaching, and they didn't get divorced so
Speaker 2: he could stay on her insurance. They show her the
Speaker 2: sketch and it's him and it's urgent, so.
Speaker 3: She tells him where he is.
Speaker 2: The priest gave him a small room in the church
Speaker 2: to live in, and he's a janitor at the church.
Speaker 2: So he's going to be at the church and she
Speaker 2: asks has he done something? As he hurts someone. She
Speaker 2: seems really nervous and they have to go. The judge
Speaker 2: signed the war like so that while Benson and Sailor
Speaker 2: are walking up the stairs, they say that they have
Speaker 2: a signed warrant and Munch and Finn are on their
Speaker 2: way to search the room with that warrant. They catch
Speaker 2: him mopping in the church basketball gym. What do churches
Speaker 2: have multipurpose rooms like? I didn't know that.
Speaker 3: I didn't know the where Gyem's at churches, didn't know.
Speaker 2: And his beard is trimmed, his hands are wrapped up
Speaker 2: from the knife wounds, I bet, and the all the
Speaker 2: cutting up he's been doing. When he hears that it's
Speaker 2: the police, he goes into a religious prayers and shakes.
Speaker 2: He's scared, cries. He goes, I served God, these people
Speaker 2: are unclean. I help the child. Oh no, he has
Speaker 2: a knife. He takes the knife out, so the detectives
Speaker 2: take their gun out, and it's a really Western style
Speaker 2: tense moving around seam trying to keep them calm, but
Speaker 2: also trying to get him. Stabler ends up jumping on
Speaker 2: him from behind. Benson kicks the knife in a really
Speaker 2: cute little kick. I like, I'm obsessed with the kick,
Speaker 2: and they both cuff him, and you know, he's scormy, scormy, scormy,
Speaker 2: So they both have to get on him, and he
Speaker 2: keeps screaming about God, oh no, fuck, there's a mob,
Speaker 2: there's paparazzi. He's wearing a bulletproof vest because they know
Speaker 2: the city hates him so much. So Benson sits with
Speaker 2: him in interrogation and he says that he was following
Speaker 2: orders from God and sent my messenger, who is an
Speaker 2: angel who is said to cleanse them. So an angel
Speaker 2: messenger said cleanse these people. And he's like, why didn't
Speaker 2: you just shoot me? You should have shot me, and
Speaker 2: Benson goes, I didn't want to hurt you, and he goes, yeah,
Speaker 2: but he says, you must, you must kill me, Please
Speaker 2: kill me. Please can't kill me. I can't take any
Speaker 2: more pain. And so you do feel for this guy,
Speaker 2: even though he's this violent killer, and that's you know,
Speaker 2: what Sbu does makes us think about lots of things.
Speaker 2: Benson looks concerned and worried and scared and pity and
Speaker 2: confusion all at once. She's magic, she's such a good actress.
Speaker 2: All evidence points to him, and Cabot wants to rush
Speaker 2: to court. So the arrangement happens May fourth, So we're
Speaker 2: in court to me right away, and he does look
Speaker 2: wild in the eyes. His eyes are wild, and we
Speaker 2: have a Petrofsky and Petrovsky's talking and doing all the
Speaker 2: judge stuff, and he goes, are you God and she says, no,
Speaker 2: just an overwork judge.
Speaker 3: And I love her casualness.
Speaker 2: We got to get.
Speaker 3: Petrofsky in the pod. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no putting this off.
Speaker 1: We gotta get petron hashtag Petrofsky on the pod.
Speaker 3: We're doing it.
Speaker 2: And she goes, you know, and I ask the questions
Speaker 2: here not you, and he goes, you can't judge me
Speaker 2: if you're not God. And he goes wild. He knocks
Speaker 2: his lawyer to the ground. And this is a guy
Speaker 2: from manifest and he's in future episodes as like the
Speaker 2: FBI child molestation expert, so he.
Speaker 3: Is a working actor. I do like him.
Speaker 2: And he has bandages throughout this whole episode that make
Speaker 2: me burst into laughter, which is so great because it's
Speaker 2: such a you know, intense episode, and I love just
Speaker 2: having this guy with oversized bandages for the rest of
Speaker 2: the rest of the show. Just an adult with a
Speaker 2: bandage on a face is humiliating, Like I would never
Speaker 2: I don't want that. I'd rather have an open wound
Speaker 2: on my face than a big ass bandage.
Speaker 3: Maybe not who am I? What am I saying? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Maybe if it was a Gucci band aid. Okay, So
Speaker 2: he goes wild. So he knocks down like the lawyer.
Speaker 2: All these bailiffs, all these guys are holding him back,
Speaker 2: and he just keeps screaming, you can't judge me, you
Speaker 2: can't judge me, screaming. They're holding Cabot helps the other lawyer.
Speaker 2: Benson's holding back the wife. She's crying. He's sick, he's sick.
Speaker 2: He can't help it. I mean, this is this so
Speaker 2: much so he is obviously being carried away in a
Speaker 2: great performance. And I think this guy's famous, but I
Speaker 2: did not look him up, but he does look attractive
Speaker 2: and like he's been another side.
Speaker 1: The guy who plays the the guy who plays the
Speaker 1: the killer.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Daniel.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he actually played like a big character on The Waltons.
Speaker 1: He's like a lifelong child actor.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: This guy's name is Richard Thomas. Oh, I know him
Speaker 1: because he's a big part on The Americans.
Speaker 3: Do you remember him from The Americans? Oh my god.
Speaker 3: Finally he's the head of the FBI.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well he's the head of Yeah, he's the head
Speaker 1: of terrorism, yeah, the CIA.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So now, after all this SKA couple, we're on
Speaker 2: the court steps and the wife runs after cabin. She's like,
Speaker 2: can I talk to you? She like, please don't kill him,
Speaker 2: Please don't kill him, Please don't kill him, and Cabot
Speaker 2: and like, you know, youally, these the lawyers annoy me
Speaker 2: a little bit. No, she goes, he's murdered for people,
Speaker 2: so that's what's going to happen. And the wife brings
Speaker 2: up a good point, you know, Karen and I are
Speaker 2: not for the death penalty. But she goes, but it's
Speaker 2: not going to bring anyone back, like, and Cabot goes,
Speaker 2: I speak for the victims and the law and that's that.
Speaker 2: And she says he doesn't know what he's doing. It's
Speaker 2: just like a very beautiful scene and it shows the
Speaker 2: complexity of the world today and always and just there's
Speaker 2: you know, because of course she's begging. She goes, my children, like,
Speaker 2: you can't kill their father. But it's also like he
Speaker 2: just murdered for people. So your kids are going to
Speaker 2: grow up with a dead dad or a murdered dad.
Speaker 2: I don't know, but it's not good for They're going
Speaker 2: to need therapy no matter what. Yeah, and I uh, yeah,
Speaker 2: I love Cabot. And the defense attorney is walking and
Speaker 2: he has a bloody bandage on his head and he's
Speaker 2: with Cabot and they're at Bellevue and he's like, listen,
Speaker 2: my dude belongs in a psych word and you know that.
Speaker 2: And she goes, that's for a jury to decide, not us,
Speaker 2: and manifest Bandage goes, but he's not confident, and she goes, yeah,
Speaker 2: but he's violent, so I don't what are we? I
Speaker 2: don't care. He's violent and he deserves to be punished.
Speaker 1: And there's just an argument, spontaneous, no impulse control, and
Speaker 1: she goes, I don't buy that.
Speaker 3: He it was a sex worker.
Speaker 2: He took her to the alley, he got rid of evidence,
Speaker 2: and he plans shit, so like, you can't say he
Speaker 2: didn't know what he was doing. When he's ducking from police,
Speaker 2: like it's not gonna happen. George Twang is here and
Speaker 2: he says the you know, he's with the killer, and
Speaker 2: the killer's in a hospital gown laying his head hurts,
Speaker 2: there's chats. There's no memory. He has no memory of
Speaker 2: what happened in court. He didn't even know he was
Speaker 2: in court. He goes, I was in court like such,
Speaker 2: it was such a good moment. So he doesn't know anything.
Speaker 2: What he did. The murder is nothing except I mean,
Speaker 2: he knows that God told him to murder the unclean
Speaker 2: must be cleansed or I will serve my wrath upon you.
Speaker 2: So he had to do it. He starts crying with
Speaker 2: his head in his hands. He's just really losing it,
Speaker 2: and it pulls away. As Cabot and the defense are watching.
Speaker 2: Cabot puts up her hand to her forehead, like, oh,
Speaker 2: what am I gonna do? Like a real thinking you
Speaker 2: know that emoji with the hand on the head. George
Speaker 2: and Alex meet up in the court steps. She says,
Speaker 2: the day office just sign an order for the death penalty.
Speaker 2: George says he can't stand trial and it's not competent.
Speaker 2: Cabot says he knows what he did was wrong, and
Speaker 2: George is like, sure, but he does not fit any
Speaker 2: type of profile of a killer at all. George says,
Speaker 2: it's not schizophrenia or psychosis that happens, and like that
Speaker 2: happens to young adults and teens. What else is going on?
Speaker 2: There's just so much shit, like I could be organic dementia,
Speaker 2: a disease attacking the brain, a brain tumor Alzheimer's, Like,
Speaker 2: we have to figure it out, and she goes the
Speaker 2: public wants justice. George says, let's just do a hardcore
Speaker 2: thing like Emrize all the jazz, Like, let's just figure
Speaker 2: this out. So Benson goes to talk to the wife
Speaker 2: and she goes, I'm not helping you kill my husband.
Speaker 2: And Benson has to say, like, you need to trust me.
Speaker 2: I'm here to help you. And Benson is trying to
Speaker 2: help you in avoid trials. So, you know, my least
Speaker 2: favorite thing. This woman goes, do you have children, Detective? No,
Speaker 2: So I guess she can't understand anything. Have you ever
Speaker 2: lost anyone close to you? So now she can relate,
Speaker 2: But anyway, so she has lost someone close to her,
Speaker 2: and earlier this year her mother did die within the
Speaker 2: season as alcoholism. So she's like, so then you get it,
Speaker 2: you get it. She just keeps focusing on her daughters
Speaker 2: and herself and you need to see outside of yourself.
Speaker 2: He killed four people, Like yeah, but whatever. So Benson says, like,
Speaker 2: we have medical records. If we just get these medical records,
Speaker 2: and she says, I will never understand. Daniel was the
Speaker 2: gentlest man I'd ever known, and then he started to change,
Speaker 2: and she begged him to see a doctor and he refused,
Speaker 2: and he the priest refused, and everyone refused and one
Speaker 2: night Daniel. She woke up and Daniel was standing in
Speaker 2: his daughter's room with a knife and said life is
Speaker 2: so hopeless and he wanted to despair them from the pain.
Speaker 2: Oh yea yie. So that's why to me, it's like.
Speaker 3: Why are you chilling?
Speaker 2: Like she kicked him out, but like in that moment,
Speaker 2: I would make more precautions than just like releasing him
Speaker 2: to the world. Yeah, if he's willing to kill your children,
Speaker 2: he'll probably be willing to do other things. Right, So
Speaker 2: Benson goes, please trust me, and thank god it does.
Speaker 2: So basically, the medical history stops three years ago when
Speaker 2: the issues started. But like, I don't get why the
Speaker 2: wife didn't do more to protect everyone. And I don't
Speaker 2: like blaming a woman for a man's bad actions, but
Speaker 2: she did know what was going on, and I'm very
Speaker 2: confused why she didn't do more to like protect people.
Speaker 3: I wonder if there was like not a way to
Speaker 3: commit him or something. I don't know.
Speaker 2: I don't know, but like you could be held responsible
Speaker 2: because I'm thinking of street Wise, where may Whitman's lie
Speaker 2: led to the murder, And it's like her not reporting
Speaker 2: led to all these murders and it's not her fault.
Speaker 2: I hate blaming women, but I'm disappointed. Like if you
Speaker 2: saw him about to stab your daughters, I don't know, yah,
Speaker 2: labs are back. Like if you woke up and Jared
Speaker 2: was just in the doorway with a knife next to
Speaker 2: your children, Like, I'm assuming you'd let someone know. I
Speaker 2: you damn right, I would just me.
Speaker 1: You would just text their pleasa texting you.
Speaker 2: You won't believe what just happened. But anyways, let's go
Speaker 2: get breakfast for this. So labs are back. Drum roll,
Speaker 2: that's a clap hold on advanced syphilis. Who saw that coming?
Speaker 2: Well I did. I've seen this a few times, but
Speaker 2: oh my god, this episode.
Speaker 1: I've always in my mind thought, oh my god, syphilis
Speaker 1: so easily curable, but if you ignore it, you will
Speaker 1: turn into a fucking religious zealot serial killer. I've alway,
Speaker 1: this episode has stuck with me so hard that untreated
Speaker 1: syphilis like truly rots your brain out.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, because I like that there's more modern diseases
Speaker 2: to worry about, and we're like, just because of this,
Speaker 2: we're like terrified of syphilis on the street.
Speaker 3: Yeah, where a gone, I'm syphilis.
Speaker 1: Isn't it sad that one one shot of penicillin. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's like crazy.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't know much about syphilis except that Ibsen
Speaker 2: play ghosts, but that's just a brag. So brain is
Speaker 2: Swiss cheese in quotes. It ate through the moral center
Speaker 2: of his brain. It's long gone, and we gotta tell
Speaker 2: his wife. But the damage is done forever and he
Speaker 2: will never recover. So it's already a death sentence. There's
Speaker 2: no reason to put this man to death. So Benton
Speaker 2: So So Benton's son. If I start calling Benson Benton,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna I'm gonna slit my fucking throat from ear
Speaker 2: to ear. So Benson tells his wife it wasn't his fault,
Speaker 2: but he does have syphilis. She goes, oh my god,
Speaker 2: what does that mean? What about the daughters? They say, well,
Speaker 2: we got to text you all, but it's only contagious
Speaker 2: in the really early stages and he probably picked it
Speaker 2: up long before you even met him. And how did
Speaker 2: nobody find out about this? What the hell? So basically,
Speaker 2: you know, he's been to doctors, he tried to figure
Speaker 2: out and he had an insurance physical light bulb moment
Speaker 2: for Benson. He wasn't approved for life insurance, and Benson
Speaker 2: asks why they're supposed to tell you why they didn't
Speaker 2: find out They just assumed it was hypertension. So something's
Speaker 2: going on and this was seven years ago. So she
Speaker 2: rushes to go see Daniel in his caged glass area
Speaker 2: in Bellevue. So Benson says, if they say no, they
Speaker 2: have to tell you why, and she goes, does it
Speaker 2: really matter now, and Benson goes, yeah, it matters, please
Speaker 2: request those records. It's a sad, sad moment. And then
Speaker 2: Paula goes to sit with her husband, Daniel behind the
Speaker 2: gates and he says, I miss you, and then they
Speaker 2: hug and he says it hurts so much and I'm sorry,
Speaker 2: and they really love each other and hug and it's
Speaker 2: really sad. Benson slowly closes the door and scurries away.
Speaker 2: Cut to angry Benson barging into Cragan's office with Stabler
Speaker 2: on behind her walking behind her. Paula got an answer
Speaker 2: they knew and didn't inform them. Communicable and sexual diseases
Speaker 2: must be told to the health department and you have
Speaker 2: to report it and they have to tell the person
Speaker 2: one shot of penicillin like Kara said, could have cured
Speaker 2: him and people wouldn't be dead. Benson says, I want
Speaker 2: their ass. So let's go on a fishing expedition.
Speaker 3: And when Benson wants to take down a corporate entity,
Speaker 3: she doesn't.
Speaker 2: She doesn't in a few days, honestly, and a few
Speaker 2: yeahs though, So it's a jam papped few days. It's
Speaker 2: only May eighth, and we're at the office of Malcolm Hunt,
Speaker 2: a CEO of Atlantic Life Insurance Company. It's a giant
Speaker 2: office and he what is this? And he's smarmy as fuck.
Speaker 2: He doesn't look like classic CEO to me, but the
Speaker 2: more he talks, he does. But he's an interesting casting
Speaker 2: choice and really interesting.
Speaker 3: I liked him, I really like.
Speaker 2: He goes, I don't take all orders from you, and
Speaker 2: he won't even put down his pen. He thinks it's
Speaker 2: like this, like when you're a CEO of an evil
Speaker 2: conglomerate like this, I'm sure you do think that you're impenetrable.
Speaker 2: Is that? Yeah?
Speaker 3: Untouchable?
Speaker 2: Yeah, untouchable. So Benson goes reckless endangerment. He goes for
Speaker 2: what and she goes failing to notify the Health Department
Speaker 2: for communicable disease which caused someone to murder.
Speaker 3: So that's what happens. He goes, how dare you?
Speaker 2: And then he stands up and thinks he's still in charge,
Speaker 2: and they're like, he's like arresting me, says who and
Speaker 2: I love when they already have a warrant. Ready, they
Speaker 2: go the judge, here's a warrant, bitch on who's authority?
Speaker 2: I mean, I love the way he's speaking to them
Speaker 2: on who's authority. Ugh, he's like little Joffrey, all grown up.
Speaker 2: But they cut his ass and we're off, and they
Speaker 2: mirandize him and they're off. So the lawyer, of course
Speaker 2: is saying this guy is the scapegoat, and he is,
Speaker 2: but it is also his fault.
Speaker 3: So I don't know.
Speaker 2: It's the law, and you didn't follow the law, so
Speaker 2: you should have reported it. He says that they reject
Speaker 2: thousands a year, and they're a business and they answer
Speaker 2: to stockholders. We can't contact every we turned down. That
Speaker 2: would mean we'd have to hire more staff, which means
Speaker 2: premiums would go up and fewer people can afford life insurance.
Speaker 2: And Cabot says a dollar fifty shot of penicillin could
Speaker 2: have cured him. Asshole, Such a simple, amazing point. But
Speaker 2: also just like you know, this is season two, We're
Speaker 2: in season twenty three now, and the way we're dealing
Speaker 2: with COVID as a nation is very reminiscent of this.
Speaker 2: It's the bottom line, it stocks, it's who's working, it's
Speaker 2: how can we fuck up the workers and not give
Speaker 2: people what they need? And we're still living in this
Speaker 2: capitalist nightmare. But Joe Rogan will save us all, Okay,
Speaker 2: So so yeah, Cabot with like such an amazing point
Speaker 2: that we're still kind of struggling with as a nation today.
Speaker 2: You should have told him, You should have told him.
Speaker 2: And the lawyer again keeps bringing up like we're not
Speaker 2: required to tell the person. They have to ask for it,
Speaker 2: and it's like, okay, yeah, the point still stands. You
Speaker 2: have to still, you know, contact the correct health department.
Speaker 2: If we audit records and find a pattern of similar
Speaker 2: cases that slip through the cracks with no effort on
Speaker 2: part of the company to rectify the situation, not only
Speaker 2: will we charge mister Hunt with reckless endangerment, we will
Speaker 2: also seize profits of company assets to the crime. And
Speaker 2: see how stockholders like that? How fucking hot? Was that
Speaker 2: that was That's like Joan Collins moment. That's that's a
Speaker 2: monologue you can audition with, to be honest, and then
Speaker 2: she ends it with and he can sit in prison
Speaker 2: for seven years to think about it. I watched it
Speaker 2: seven times. I couldn't stop watching it, like I really
Speaker 2: love that scene.
Speaker 1: And you can tell on mister Hunt's face he knows
Speaker 1: when he's been had because he's such a big gun,
Speaker 1: and he knows what he gets people.
Speaker 2: He like you could see in the eyes. Suddenly it
Speaker 2: all changes, like, oh shit, now I'm not the captain anymore.
Speaker 2: And so what do you want, missus Cabot? What do
Speaker 2: you want? Miss Cabot, what do you want? What do
Speaker 2: you want? What do you want? She answers very simply,
Speaker 2: I want your company to report all of communicable diseases.
Speaker 2: And when family of the murder victims suit, you will settle.
Speaker 2: And the lawyer says that's extortion and will cost the
Speaker 2: company millions, and she goes, Okay, well it's a lot
Speaker 2: cheaper than going bankrupt from publicity, like court of public opinion.
Speaker 2: You're already guilty. You really want to take your chances
Speaker 2: in court. He's scared and obviously is going to agree.
Speaker 2: So we that's done. We've taken down a life insurance company,
Speaker 2: and now we're sentencing for Daniel and the lawyer has another.
Speaker 3: New giant beige bandage once.
Speaker 2: And he is not competent, so, you know, remanded to
Speaker 2: custody of mental health and he'll be in a secure
Speaker 2: place forever because his brain will never get better. And
Speaker 2: he's taken away, and then they show the mom of
Speaker 2: the murdered son and father and she still has those
Speaker 2: wet eyes and wispy bangs and stablers of course, affected
Speaker 2: by that. They do believe in justice. They stare at
Speaker 2: each other. She walks away without saying a word, and
Speaker 2: the detectives leave and they're so tired. And it's a
Speaker 2: tough week at the office. And that's Dick Wolf's baby,
Speaker 2: who I mean.
Speaker 1: And an episode that I've seen truly at least a
Speaker 1: dozen times.
Speaker 3: Always sticks with me.
Speaker 2: Well, can't wait to see what's up? Yeah, is it?
Speaker 6: You know?
Speaker 2: Because in my you know, they mentioned Jack the Ripper,
Speaker 2: but I know about it in theory. But maybe there's
Speaker 2: other things, So that's not it.
Speaker 1: All right, We're gonna go to our little commercials and
Speaker 1: then we'll be back and I'll tell you what we're doing.
Speaker 1: All right, welcome back, Let's get into this crime. So, yes,
Speaker 1: they did reference Jack the Ripper a few times, who
Speaker 1: was a serial killer in the late eighteen hundreds in
Speaker 1: like a very you know, Rundown area of London, and
Speaker 1: he would typically attack sex workers and he did like
Speaker 1: sort of disembowel people. I don't think this is like
Speaker 1: necessarily what the episode is based on. And other people
Speaker 1: compared it to the Yorkshire Ripper again, a guy who
Speaker 1: was based off the Jack Ripper, who in the seventies
Speaker 1: killed a lot of sex workers in England. But I
Speaker 1: think that this case is more based off of the
Speaker 1: serial killer Herbert Mullen, and so I'm going to talk
Speaker 1: about him. Yes, I know my favorite murder has done
Speaker 1: this episode, but thank you for thinking about sending me
Speaker 1: the message.
Speaker 3: I thought the.
Speaker 1: Religious motivation of this killer is what is what jibs
Speaker 1: with Herbert mullerin more so, he seemed like a closer
Speaker 1: link to me. So basically, Herbert Mullen brutally slaughtered thirteen people,
Speaker 1: including children and a Catholic priest in northern California in
Speaker 1: the early seventies.
Speaker 2: You'd think, being such a man of God, he wouldn't
Speaker 2: stop at thirteen, the devil's number.
Speaker 1: I know, interesting, I never even you know, you've got
Speaker 1: the number. You've got the eye for the numbers, numbers
Speaker 1: and cookie jars. I'm ready, yeah, but okay, So let's
Speaker 1: start at the beginning of Mullen's life. He had a
Speaker 1: pretty regular upbringing. Like he brought up. He was brought
Speaker 1: up Catholic and was voted most likely to succeed in
Speaker 1: high school. You don't hear that a lot. You don't
Speaker 1: hear that a lot. Like everybody liked him in high school.
Speaker 1: He was a football player, even though he was small,
Speaker 1: he was a good football player.
Speaker 3: He was well liked.
Speaker 1: And so what happened was in his later teens and
Speaker 1: early twenties he began to suffer from schizophrenia and his
Speaker 1: mental issues were exacerbated by drug use like marijuana and LSD.
Speaker 1: And he did have legalized acid tattooed on his stomach,
Speaker 1: so you know, And he was in and out of
Speaker 1: mental institutions from nineteen sixty nine to nineteen seventy two.
Speaker 1: So when he was like in his like late teens,
Speaker 1: early twenties, so when he turned twenty five on April eighteenth,
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy two. That is also the anniversary of the
Speaker 1: San Francisco earthquake of nineteen oh six, and Mullen was
Speaker 1: very obsessed with this earthquake situation. He believed that nature
Speaker 1: required human sacrifice in order to stave off earthquakes. So
Speaker 1: he was like, Oh, the Vietnam War is killing enough
Speaker 1: people so that we're not having an earthquake right now,
Speaker 1: but now that the war is kind of wrapping up,
Speaker 1: even though the ward an until nineteen seventy five, like
Speaker 1: I guess, it seemed like it was kind of coming
Speaker 1: to a close.
Speaker 2: He's also not in his right mind, like he doesn't
Speaker 2: know this right, so he's making.
Speaker 1: This all up right, So he's like he's like yeah, He's.
Speaker 3: Like, we're gonna eat.
Speaker 2: You're like, well, the Vietnam War did take a few days,
Speaker 2: so I don't really know this theory.
Speaker 3: Chick to give people the dates.
Speaker 1: I just wanted to give people the context because I
Speaker 1: did look it up. I was like, well, when did
Speaker 1: the war end? So he thought that he needed to
Speaker 1: be sacrificing people to stave off these earthquakes and that
Speaker 1: there was an earthquake on the horizon, and he needed
Speaker 1: to offer people as a blood sacrifice to nature. He
Speaker 1: also later claimed that his father had encouraged him to
Speaker 1: kill through telepathy, so his father never physically.
Speaker 3: Told him, He just my and told him so.
Speaker 1: Mullin said, if I didn't kill, it would bring shame
Speaker 1: to the family by showing cowardice.
Speaker 3: It was kill or get out. That was what was
Speaker 3: going through his mind. Not a bad point if I'm
Speaker 3: being honest, JK.
Speaker 1: So okay, I'm just gonna take you quickly through like
Speaker 1: his first victims. So his first victim is fifty five
Speaker 1: year old Lawrence Whitey White who was he killed in
Speaker 1: October of nineteen seventy two. Mullin put up the hood
Speaker 1: of his car and acted like he needed help, and
Speaker 1: then when Whitey went to go help him with his
Speaker 1: car in exchange for a ride, he just smashed him
Speaker 1: over the head with a baseball bat. And he later
Speaker 1: claimed that Whitey looked like Jonah from the Bible and
Speaker 1: had sent him telepathic messages saying, quote, hey man, pick
Speaker 1: me up and throw me over the boat.
Speaker 3: Kill me so that others will be saved. End quote.
Speaker 1: So you know he's not thinking rationally. Then his second
Speaker 1: victim is about a week and a half later. So
Speaker 1: all of this guy's killings took place in like a
Speaker 1: few months, which was pretty quick. Like you know, some
Speaker 1: serial killers span you know, years. His were all pretty
Speaker 1: quick and condensed. It wasn't a forty eight hour murder
Speaker 1: spree leg in the show, but still pretty condensed I
Speaker 1: think for reality. So a female hitchhiker is the next victim.
Speaker 1: Her name is Mary Margaret Gilfoyle, she's twenty four, and
Speaker 1: she's his second victim. Now at this time, this is
Speaker 1: fascinating to me. Ed Kemper is making the rounds in
Speaker 1: the exact same area. Okay, so many women are being
Speaker 1: told be careful of hitchhiking, but but what I read
Speaker 1: was a lot of girls were like, nah, it's a lifestyle,
Speaker 1: like gotta keep doing it. And I just thought that
Speaker 1: was like tragic but also kind of like sorry, you squares,
Speaker 1: gotta keep hitchhiking even though so many girls are ending
Speaker 1: up decapitated for Ed Kemper. So when Mary Gilfoyle saw Mullen,
Speaker 1: this like sort of cute, soft spoken young guy in
Speaker 1: the car, She's like, this guy could never be a killer.
Speaker 1: She was very wrong. He picked her up and stabbed
Speaker 1: her through the chest while driving. Then he took her
Speaker 1: into the woods. He cut her abdomen open and took
Speaker 1: all of her organs out so he could like examine them,
Speaker 1: and he like draped them on a tree so he
Speaker 1: could get a better look at them. It's like really horrible,
Speaker 1: and then her skeleton wasn't found for a couple of months.
Speaker 1: Mullen blamed his mother for this killing because she had
Speaker 1: given him a copy of the Michelangelo biography The Agony
Speaker 1: and the Ecstasy, which I've never read, but I guess
Speaker 1: in it they talk about how Michelangelo dissected human bodies
Speaker 1: so that he could like learn about how to better
Speaker 1: sculpt them, or like what made up the human body.
Speaker 1: Dead bodies obviously Michaelangelo and Mullen thought that his mother
Speaker 1: gave him the book as a hint quote unquote to
Speaker 1: dissect someone, and he said, quote, I think she was
Speaker 1: trying to tell me what to do so that I
Speaker 1: could have this insight to end quote. Now, the hanging
Speaker 1: of the intestines has put me over the edge. I know,
Speaker 1: it's really really horrible, but it's like he wanted to
Speaker 1: explore the human body. This was the only one of
Speaker 1: his victims he did that too, so I guess he
Speaker 1: got what he needed out of it and then didn't
Speaker 1: do that anymore.
Speaker 2: And I'm like imagining her face, like just driving chatting
Speaker 2: and then looking down and just being stabbed, Like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I just can't imagine that moment.
Speaker 3: It's horrible.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I mean so much, so much violence was
Speaker 1: happening towards women in this area of like Santa Cruz,
Speaker 1: like northern California at this time. So and then so
Speaker 1: I think it's about a week later when he goes
Speaker 1: to a church to he says, quote, to give me
Speaker 1: strength to never attempt to kill again. But he hears
Speaker 1: a priest in a confessional and ends up assaulting and
Speaker 1: stabbing the priest to death in the confessional booth. And
Speaker 1: this is so horrible. Obviously, I don't want any priest
Speaker 1: to be killed. But this priest was named Henri TomEE,
Speaker 1: and he was he had been a member of the
Speaker 1: French Underground, which was an organization that fought the Nazis
Speaker 1: in World War Two. So this guy's like a war
Speaker 1: hero who comes to the United States and gets murdered
Speaker 1: by a person on a you know, rampage.
Speaker 3: It's just like very tragic.
Speaker 1: A witness did see Mullin running away from the scene,
Speaker 1: but his description of like, oh, a slight man with
Speaker 1: brown hair, like it just didn't really help, which reminded
Speaker 1: me of this episode. It was like, he's very nondescript,
Speaker 1: this man. It's like, yeah, beard, wild eyes, like that's
Speaker 1: half of New York, you know, like you couldn't It
Speaker 1: was hard to track this guy down.
Speaker 3: But I don't have to credit.
Speaker 2: The actor from The Waltons because his crazy eyes looked amazing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the wild eyes crazy eyes.
Speaker 2: He did a really good job. We should do who
Speaker 2: did it better? Uzo Dubo gonna giving Uzo a Dubo
Speaker 2: run for her money.
Speaker 1: So obviously, at the time, people thought that this was
Speaker 1: the work of a Satanic cult, because in the United
Speaker 1: States we love to blame everything on fucking Satan. But
Speaker 1: Mullin was raised a Catholic, as I mentioned before, and
Speaker 1: he kind of went back and forth between hating religion,
Speaker 1: having his own sort of religious philosophies, and then also
Speaker 1: getting into screaming fights with God, like he was communicating
Speaker 1: with God. So his relationship with God was you know,
Speaker 1: very complicated.
Speaker 3: But it reminds me. To me, that's the link with
Speaker 3: the SPUs.
Speaker 2: Relationship status with God. It's complicated. It's complicated, Oh my God.
Speaker 1: So after killing these first three victims, he kind of
Speaker 1: attempts to get out of dodge, like he tries to
Speaker 1: join the Coast Guard, then he tries to join the Marines.
Speaker 1: He didn't pass the psychological exam for the Coastguard, but
Speaker 1: then he somehow did for the Marines, and the Marines
Speaker 1: were gonna they were ready to sign him, but he
Speaker 1: wouldn't sign this document that contained his arrest record, and
Speaker 1: so they dismissed him. And then he thought it was
Speaker 1: all like a huge conspiracy against him, because you know,
Speaker 1: he is suffering of paranoid schizophrenia, so a lot of
Speaker 1: that involves thinking that there's you know, outside structures that
Speaker 1: are working against you and you know, to bring you down.
Speaker 1: So now it's January of seventy three, so it's you know,
Speaker 1: it's been a couple months since his first killing. He
Speaker 1: remembers his high school friend named John Gennara, who had
Speaker 1: given him his first drugs, like his first I guess weed,
Speaker 1: and most of us think of that person pretty fondly.
Speaker 1: I think, like I remember the first person who gave
Speaker 1: me weed. But Mullen was not happy. He thought that
Speaker 1: this guy gave him drugs and it caused his whole
Speaker 1: brain to malfunction and totally fucked up his whole life.
Speaker 1: But it just so happens that schizophrenia usually surfaces late teens,
Speaker 1: early twenties usually, and that is that can.
Speaker 3: Be when people start to experiment more with drugs.
Speaker 1: So it's like, you know, it's it's sort of a coincidence,
Speaker 1: and I don't think it's I don't think weed turned
Speaker 1: him into a killer. But so he goes to find
Speaker 1: Jim Gennara and he ends up at the house of
Speaker 1: Kathy Francis, who lives there with her two sons, age
Speaker 1: nine and age four, and she tells Mullin, oh, Jim
Speaker 1: lives somewhere else, tells him where he lives, and then
Speaker 1: he thanks her and he leaves. So then he goes
Speaker 1: to Jim's house. He shoots Jim. Jim doesn't die immediately.
Speaker 1: He tries to get upstairs to like save his wife
Speaker 1: who's in the bath and telling her to like lock
Speaker 1: the door and everything, but he gets in, he shoots
Speaker 1: the wife, and then he stabs them like like the
Speaker 1: way you were saying, Oh, it was like forty two
Speaker 1: stab wounds, Like he stabs them. The article I read
Speaker 1: said to the point of overkill, Like I think they
Speaker 1: were long dead from the gunshot wounds, and he was
Speaker 1: just like stabbing away. So he was, you know, I
Speaker 1: don't know what he thought he was accomplishing with that.
Speaker 1: But this is a thing of nightmares. Yeah, this is
Speaker 1: one of these murders is a nightmare. But to put
Speaker 1: them all together is really yeah, and it was also
Speaker 1: it also explains a little bit why it was hard
Speaker 1: to catch him, because it's like baseball bat stabbing gun
Speaker 1: like a man of God, a hitchhiker, like nobody is
Speaker 1: like none of the victims are the same, none of
Speaker 1: the ems are the same. He shoots Jim Gennara and
Speaker 1: his wife, you know, like he's using all different weapons.
Speaker 1: He's going all over the place. So I can see
Speaker 1: why it was like a little bit more difficult to
Speaker 1: nail down like who he was. So he goes back
Speaker 1: to the home of Kathy Francis. This is horrible. It's
Speaker 1: just gonna get worse. There's conflicting information on his motive here.
Speaker 1: One source I read said that Mullen thought Kathy had
Speaker 1: telepathically told him I want you to kill me and
Speaker 1: my sons.
Speaker 3: We want to be a.
Speaker 1: Blood sacrifice, but other obviously, later the prosecution argued that
Speaker 1: she was a witness and he was terrified of going
Speaker 1: to jail, so he was covering his crimes. So it's
Speaker 1: a little bit like what happened in the episode, Oh
Speaker 1: you burn this woman, you try to hide evidence, Like sure,
Speaker 1: you might be mentally incapable or incapacitated, but like you
Speaker 1: are covering up the like your tracks, you know. So
Speaker 1: that implies like a knowledge of right and wrong, I guess.
Speaker 1: So when Kathy opens the door, he shoots her in
Speaker 1: the chest, in the head, and then he kills her
Speaker 1: two sons while they're playing Chinese checkers in a bunk bed.
Speaker 1: It's like so horrific, I can't even like, oh, it's
Speaker 1: so awful, but it's you know, the episode has also
Speaker 1: a nine year old boy killed out of nowhere, and
Speaker 1: then so both Jim Gennara and Kathy Francis's husband Bob,
Speaker 1: who was not in the house at the time of
Speaker 1: the murders, were marijuana dealers, and so the police just
Speaker 1: chalk these up to drug related crimes, oh yeah, because
Speaker 1: there's no pattern. Yeah, and they did not connect it
Speaker 1: to the priest killing at all. They were just like, up,
Speaker 1: these guys sell weed and like whatever, this was a
Speaker 1: drug related thing.
Speaker 2: What connects it eventually? Like DNA or what I can
Speaker 2: tell you? I can tell you.
Speaker 1: So then a week or so later, Mullen discovered an
Speaker 1: illegal camp site when he was wandering around in the woods, okay,
Speaker 1: and it was fourteen boys like in their like eighteen
Speaker 1: or nineteen. All these guys their names were Brian Scott Card,
Speaker 1: David Oliker, Robert Specter, and Mark oh god dry Belvis
Speaker 1: I think is his name. And they invited him into
Speaker 1: this like makeshift sort of like plastic tarp tent thing
Speaker 1: that they had made, and he didn't want to come in.
Speaker 1: He was very like anti flower Power, anti hippies stuff
Speaker 1: like that. I don't know why because that was Sue
Speaker 1: and Francisco at the time. Yeah, but that was huge
Speaker 1: as of Francisco at that time, and he was just
Speaker 1: like these hippies blah blah blah. So he basically just
Speaker 1: started yelling at these boys for defacing government property in
Speaker 1: this forest. And was angry, apparently because he'd been hassled
Speaker 1: by a ranger for doing the same thing earlier, and
Speaker 1: he didn't think it was fair that these teenagers should
Speaker 1: get away with like camping illegally in the woods. When
Speaker 1: he you know, so the boys laughed at him, you know,
Speaker 1: they were like, whoa dude, Like why are you so
Speaker 1: you know, hopped up about this thing, And Mullen said
Speaker 1: to himself, quote, I decided to kill them and asked
Speaker 1: them telepathically if I could, and they all answered yes.
Speaker 1: They were all in a sitting position, and it was
Speaker 1: all over in a few seconds. And he later said,
Speaker 1: quote unquote, they asked for it. So he hated renegade campers, hippies,
Speaker 1: flower children, anyone that he considered a counterculture deviant. So
Speaker 1: that brings them up to twelve victims. And then a
Speaker 1: few days after he kills these boys in the woods,
Speaker 1: it's February thirteenth, and Mullen had planned to bring some
Speaker 1: firewood to parents' house, but he got a telepathic message
Speaker 1: from his father that said, don't deliver a stick of
Speaker 1: wood until you kill someone. So he drove by the
Speaker 1: house of some guy who was just outside working on
Speaker 1: his lawn on his car, and he was a retired
Speaker 1: prize fighter named Fred Perez who was seventy two years old,
Speaker 1: just working in his driveway and he just shot him
Speaker 1: once in the heart and killed him instantly. And he
Speaker 1: had no explanation for why he killed this man besides that,
Speaker 1: you know, he got this message from his dad saying, like,
Speaker 1: no reason why he picked this guy, I guess besides
Speaker 1: an opportunity, And the prosecution would later argue that Mullen
Speaker 1: was actually ready to stop killing and that this was
Speaker 1: his like come and get me crime, Like he just
Speaker 1: did it broad daylight. A neighbor saw his plates and
Speaker 1: saw his car as he drove away from doing that.
Speaker 1: So he was easily arrested very quickly after killing Perez,
Speaker 1: and he did not struggle or speak when he was arrested.
Speaker 1: So when they brought him in to interrogate him, every
Speaker 1: question he answered with silence. And I was like, bring
Speaker 1: back my girls. But I'm just kidding. The silence part
Speaker 1: is real, but he did not say bring back my girls.
Speaker 1: And when they went to his ramshackle apartment, they found
Speaker 1: a bible. They found a paperback book called Einstein The
Speaker 1: Life and Times, and they found newspaper articles about the
Speaker 1: recent murders. They also found the following note, and it said,
Speaker 1: let it be known to the nations of Earth and
Speaker 1: the people that inhabit it. This document carries more power
Speaker 1: than any other written before. Such a tragedy as what
Speaker 1: has happened should not have happened. And because of this action,
Speaker 1: which I take of my own free will, I am
Speaker 1: making it possible to occur again. For while I can
Speaker 1: be here, I must guide and protect my dynasty.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: And then so the cops were wondering, oh, is this
Speaker 1: the guy who's been killing all these female hitchhikers, which
Speaker 1: was really Ed Kemper, And they, like I said, they
Speaker 1: kept telling women to stop hitchhiking, and the when ladies
Speaker 1: were all like, m we're good. And so there was
Speaker 1: no evidence that tied Mullin to any of the hitchhiker
Speaker 1: bodies except for Gilfoyle, that hitchhiker, and he she wasn't
Speaker 1: decapitated or dismembered the way that others were. She was
Speaker 1: just disemboweled like Ed Kemper, you know, decapitated his victims
Speaker 1: or would keep like a finger or whatever, and like
Speaker 1: that's not what happened to Mary?
Speaker 2: He's so wild because of Ed Kemper. I only think
Speaker 2: of the actor who played him in mind Hunter, but
Speaker 2: he's now in all these other shows, like he is
Speaker 2: in The Girl, He's like in Shrill playing eighties love interests,
Speaker 2: and I'm like, I hope you don't kill her. Like
Speaker 2: but to me, like when you're talking Ed Kemper, I
Speaker 2: only see his face.
Speaker 1: It's truly who I see, and he does really well.
Speaker 1: I watched a long video of Ed Kemper for this,
Speaker 1: not that long. I just it's the longest I had
Speaker 1: watched Ed Kemper, Like, I watched a twenty minute video
Speaker 1: of him talking, and he's he is like extremely articulate
Speaker 1: and just like Set has a lot of good insight.
Speaker 1: It's really nuts anyway. So eventually Mullen was charged with
Speaker 1: ten counts of murder. He was not yet charged for
Speaker 1: the first three victims, White Whitey Father, Tome and Gilfoyle.
Speaker 1: And then at his hearing on March first, Mullen carries
Speaker 1: in a two volume legal book and tried to plead
Speaker 1: guilty and the judge refuses to accept a guilty plea
Speaker 1: in a case of such magnitude, which I don't really
Speaker 1: know why. I'm like, why not, but should we not
Speaker 1: burden the system? But I think it's because they could
Speaker 1: tell that he was possibly not fit to stand trial.
Speaker 3: So Mullen said, I won't accept that.
Speaker 1: You gave me a choice and I chose, And then
Speaker 1: his lawyer tries to intervene, and Mullen says, I refuse
Speaker 1: counsel and insisted on representing himself. And his lawyer is
Speaker 1: James Jackson, who ends up being ed Kemper's lawyer later,
Speaker 1: and he has also defended other famous criminals. So so
Speaker 1: Mullen keeps trying to plead guilty and the judge is
Speaker 1: getting annoyed, and the judge essentially doubted his competence to
Speaker 1: stand trial. So all the experts that examine Mullen determined
Speaker 1: that he is a person with paranoid schizophrenia. And he
Speaker 1: sat in his cell writing out all the re since
Speaker 1: his just his killings were justified, which worked but not
Speaker 1: in the way that he thought like it definitely helped
Speaker 1: the judge decide that he was not competent.
Speaker 3: Like he was trying to be like, no, no, here's
Speaker 3: why what I did was right.
Speaker 1: And then it really worked in another way, because it
Speaker 1: helped the judge decide that. And I learned about this
Speaker 1: thing that was kind of interesting while I was researching this,
Speaker 1: that all the writing he was doing, it's called hypergraphia,
Speaker 1: and it's something like it's an intense desire to write
Speaker 1: or draw, and it's something that you see in a
Speaker 1: lot of people suffering from schizophrenia that it's just like writing, writing, writing,
Speaker 1: getting your thoughts out, like chronicling details and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: And that's why you'll see a lot of like writing
Speaker 1: on walls, writing on your body, writing on like journals
Speaker 1: and journals and paper and stuff. So that's I think
Speaker 1: something that was going on with him as well. So
Speaker 1: while Mullen was a waiting trial, guess who shows up
Speaker 1: at the same prison at kemperd Kemper baby.
Speaker 2: I hope they're friends.
Speaker 1: Listen, it's wild. Watch a show. I would watch a
Speaker 1: show just of this. They put them in cells right
Speaker 1: next to each other, and from a lot of places
Speaker 1: I read, they were like oil and water. Like Kemper
Speaker 1: was six ' nine, Mullen was this little guy.
Speaker 3: I read.
Speaker 1: Kemper bothered him all the time, called him little Herbie,
Speaker 1: like all this stuff. But then when you look when
Speaker 1: you watch Ed Kemper talk about it, which I did.
Speaker 1: I watched a fifteen minute segment basically where he talks
Speaker 1: about how he dealt with herb with Herber Mullen. It
Speaker 1: doesn't seem like Kemper didn't like him. It seemed like
Speaker 1: Kemper wanted to help him figure out a way to
Speaker 1: be in jail and stop driving everybody crazy. So this
Speaker 1: is just like I thought, this was like fascinating basically. Okay,
Speaker 1: So Lisa, I think you actually may have mentioned this
Speaker 1: in the episode where you covered Ed Kemper.
Speaker 3: But yeah, but I'm sitting at the.
Speaker 2: Edge of my seat, like I know I talked about this,
Speaker 2: but I'm sitting on the edge of my seat being
Speaker 2: like what happened.
Speaker 1: It's like an SVU episode that you know you've seen,
Speaker 1: but you're like, wait, this is what happened. Yeah, So
Speaker 1: Mullen had this habit of singing and bother all the
Speaker 1: other inmates when they're trying to watch TV, and like,
Speaker 1: these guys don't get that much enjoyment and they get
Speaker 1: to watch like Saturday Night Special on Saturday Nights or whatever,
Speaker 1: and they're trying to watch that and he's singing, and
Speaker 1: he's screaming about how TV wrots your brain and all
Speaker 1: this other kind of shit, and the guys like all
Speaker 1: wanted to, you know, pound him. So what Kemper started
Speaker 1: doing was throwing water on him to shut him up,
Speaker 1: and then when he was good, he would give him peanuts,
Speaker 1: and he said, Herbie liked peanuts. And that was effective
Speaker 1: because pretty soon he asked permission to sing, and Kemper said,
Speaker 1: and that's called behavior modification treatment. So he essentially found
Speaker 1: out that the guy liked peanuts. They were cells next
Speaker 1: to each other, so he would like leave little bags
Speaker 1: of peanuts for him, treat him nicely, but then splash
Speaker 1: water on him when he was being a jerk. And
Speaker 1: he really got Mullens to stop acting that way. And
Speaker 1: then there'd be times where Kemper would be like, Okay,
Speaker 1: Mullin's gonna sing right now, and all the guys would
Speaker 1: be like oh. He'd be like, do you want him
Speaker 1: to do it now? Or do you want him to
Speaker 1: do it when you're watching your show? And the guys
Speaker 1: would be like okay, fine, and then he would just
Speaker 1: sing for like forty five seconds and then be like
Speaker 1: never mind, Like this isn't working for me.
Speaker 3: Like, I don't think he really wanted to sing.
Speaker 1: He just wanted to like disrupt, and if people are listening,
Speaker 1: it doesn't really work.
Speaker 3: So he figured out a way.
Speaker 1: To really help Herbie Mullen I think exist in prison
Speaker 1: without getting like, you know, maybe killed. And Kemper would
Speaker 1: talk to Mullen about the way that they murdered people
Speaker 1: and like Mullen would be like, yeah, I just shot
Speaker 1: them and they went down, and and Kemper would be like, no,
Speaker 1: you didn't.
Speaker 3: They writhed around a little bit.
Speaker 1: They did this sometimes you gotta shoot him again because
Speaker 1: they don't die right away. And the guy was like,
Speaker 1: Mullen was like, how did you know all that? I
Speaker 1: never told you that? And he's like, because I'm a
Speaker 1: killer too, like like I know you know, like and
Speaker 1: so he was like Mullen was shocked that he knew
Speaker 1: exactly how he felt and like how killing people like
Speaker 1: went down and her and he goes Herbie, I know
Speaker 1: what happened. Don't give me that bullshit about earthquakes, and
Speaker 1: don't give me that crap about God was telling you this,
Speaker 1: I says, you couldn't even be talking to me now
Speaker 1: if God was talking to you because of the pressure
Speaker 1: I'm putting on you right now, these little shocking insights
Speaker 1: into what you did. God would start talking to you
Speaker 1: right now if you were that kind of ill, because
Speaker 1: I grew.
Speaker 3: Up with people like that.
Speaker 1: So he's kind of calling Mullin out saying, I don't
Speaker 1: think you're that ill. I don't think you think God
Speaker 1: was talking to you. Blah blah blah. But every single
Speaker 1: expert that interviewed Mount Mullen said he was suffering from
Speaker 1: paranoid schizophrenia. So I do believe that he was possibly
Speaker 1: thought he was talking to God, or at least that
Speaker 1: his dad and mom were telling him to do these
Speaker 1: horrible crimes. As we know from Liza's episode on Kemper,
Speaker 1: he had serious mom issues, Mullen had more dad issues.
Speaker 3: And Mullen thought his dad was a.
Speaker 1: Serial killer, and he kept demanding that the cops take
Speaker 1: his dad's fingerprints and compare them against all these murders
Speaker 1: in California and the Pacific Northwest. So he just kept
Speaker 1: asking for that to happen, and obviously no one ever
Speaker 1: did that. And I don't think there was any proof
Speaker 1: at all that his father was a criminal in any
Speaker 1: way the prosecution told the jury, quote, there's no question
Speaker 1: he's mentally ill, seriously mentally ill, but that doesn't mean
Speaker 1: he's legally insane.
Speaker 3: End quote.
Speaker 1: Basically, they thought he hit his crimes. He even ground
Speaker 1: down the serial numbers on the gun. So even though
Speaker 1: he has these mental issues, he still knew right from
Speaker 1: wrong when he was committing these crimes. And I guess
Speaker 1: that's the legal definition of legally insane versus not.
Speaker 2: They covered this well with Cabot in the episode. I
Speaker 2: think too, of even if you're dealing with your paranoid schizophrenia,
Speaker 2: you're still acting in the reality of trying not to
Speaker 2: get caught. Right.
Speaker 1: So it turns out that in this case it did
Speaker 1: not happen like the episode. They basically sided with Cabot,
Speaker 1: and the jury finds mullensane and guilty. On August nineteenth,
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy three, they thought that the deaths of Jim,
Speaker 1: Jennia and Kathy Francis were premeditated, thereby making those first
Speaker 1: degree murder, and the rest were all considered impulse murders
Speaker 1: and they were second degree murder.
Speaker 3: I don't know actually if he was ever charged for
Speaker 3: the first three murders.
Speaker 1: Maybe it just was no point since he had done
Speaker 1: all these other ones but and was going to jail forever.
Speaker 1: But so the jury found him guilty. But I thought
Speaker 1: this was so fascinating. The jury, foreman did not like
Speaker 1: the way things went down in this in this trial,
Speaker 1: so he wrote to California Governor Ronald Reagan and said
Speaker 1: that he was responsible as responsible as Mullen was for
Speaker 1: these deaths because his administration had been systematically shutting California's
Speaker 1: mental hospitals and had a plan to deactivate all of
Speaker 1: them in a few years. And so within a year
Speaker 1: of the Mullin trial, California legislators passed a bill to
Speaker 1: prohibit the closure of any other mental hospitals. So no,
Speaker 1: that's what happened in Chicago.
Speaker 2: I think in the seventies too, they just like released
Speaker 2: all these people into the neighborhoods with no resources or
Speaker 2: money or skill, and it's like, you can't do that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And what people were what I was reading a
Speaker 1: lot of was like he did not kill people because
Speaker 1: he had schizophrenia. He Usually people with mental illness are
Speaker 1: actually more likely to be killed than to kill. I
Speaker 1: think that's a common misconception. But like any antisocial personality disorder,
Speaker 1: paranoid schizophrenia is usually diagnosed before violence occurs and then.
Speaker 3: You can handle it.
Speaker 1: Like usually they can be observed in a mental facility
Speaker 1: and you know, medication can work. But the problem is
Speaker 1: a lot of times they you know, can if they're
Speaker 1: not being more closely monitored. But because he was discharged
Speaker 1: from these mental hospitals, he just was able to sort
Speaker 1: of have all this, you know, all these things were
Speaker 1: able to transpire, and it's it does make me sad
Speaker 1: because it doesn't really I mean, it's so much loss
Speaker 1: of life, but it also feels like this is a
Speaker 1: person that was not didn't know what they were doing.
Speaker 2: Do you think if this person was medicated and monitored
Speaker 2: he wouldn't be violent. I just don't see that.
Speaker 3: I think so.
Speaker 1: I think that if the voices call, if the medication
Speaker 1: can calm the voices, and that's what's telling you to
Speaker 1: do what you're doing, that I think so. But he
Speaker 1: is now seventy four and he was denied parole last year,
Speaker 1: and at his parole hearings, he continues to blame his
Speaker 1: sister and his parents for making him commit these murders,
Speaker 1: so you can't let him out all these years.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, so you have to have remorse.
Speaker 2: I think that's what parole is looking for, and that's
Speaker 2: how people can fake their way out. But it's like
Speaker 2: they need you to learn a lesson or what's the
Speaker 2: point of jail. You can't like continue to say you
Speaker 2: don't give a shit? Yeah yeah, yeah, absolutely, this is horrible.
Speaker 2: We cover a lot of bad crimes, but this one
Speaker 2: is pretty heinous. Yeah, disgusting. Yeah, really awful. And the
Speaker 2: intestines will live with me for a while.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm sorry I had to do. I did have
Speaker 3: to tell everybody about that, but.
Speaker 2: You had to, you had to tell us.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but I did think that I put it
Speaker 1: in the show notes, this interview with Ed Kemper where
Speaker 1: he talks about her mull and a lot, and it
Speaker 1: was just interesting because Ed Kemper, Uh, It's like he
Speaker 1: was a horrible, horrible, horrible criminal, but he is like
Speaker 1: so articulate and he's in there talking about how herb
Speaker 1: was never gonna make it if I didn't help him,
Speaker 1: like and he kind of did help him, And it's like,
Speaker 1: why am I thinking that this murderer is like a
Speaker 1: good guy. Like that's I think what is really That's
Speaker 1: why they let like Ed Kemper run the library department
Speaker 1: at the jail and like do all these things that
Speaker 1: he's done because he is like an actual insightful person,
Speaker 1: even though a horrific, you know, violent criminal well and not.
Speaker 3: To this degree.
Speaker 2: Like murder is bad, but I think, you know, sorry
Speaker 2: to bring up yellow jackets again, but it's this idea
Speaker 2: of like we're all layered, Like we're not all good,
Speaker 2: we're not all bad. It's choices, mistakes, moments in life
Speaker 2: and like not excusing any murder. But it is possible
Speaker 2: in the realm of humanity that Ed Kemper has other
Speaker 2: qualities and characteristics that are not evil and murderer. We
Speaker 2: just as a society can't look past murder. Yeah, unless
Speaker 2: you know you're a killing it your abuser.
Speaker 3: But ah, yeah, well that's that everybody.
Speaker 1: I'm sure there'll be another opportunity for me to talk
Speaker 1: about the Yorkshire Ripper for you, but ay, and.
Speaker 2: It's fucked up because yeah, I like Ed Kemper too,
Speaker 2: but I'm also thinking about him in terms of this actor.
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's fun.
Speaker 1: It's all fucked He did a good job of getting
Speaker 1: Ed Kemper's voice in the because when I watched this
Speaker 1: long interview, I was like, yeah, that is kind of
Speaker 1: how we talked in mind Hunter.
Speaker 3: So the actors are incredible.
Speaker 1: Anyway, we have a we have a we have another
Speaker 1: amazing interview. So don't move your little booties. I've been
Speaker 1: talking to Rosi about her booty too much. Okay, today's
Speaker 1: guest was such a delight.
Speaker 2: To talk to.
Speaker 1: We can't believe how many of our favorite shows. She's
Speaker 1: been on Sex and the City, Dexter. Right now, she's
Speaker 1: starring on the Equalizer with Queen Latifah and you can
Speaker 1: catch you in a new comedy movie that's streaming called
Speaker 1: The Fabulous Filipino Brothers. You know her as a recurring
Speaker 1: CSU tech, but in today's episode, she was the very
Speaker 1: affected Rebecca Chang. Guys, enjoy our conversation with Lisa Lapira.
Speaker 1: So you're in New York right now.
Speaker 6: I'm in New York right now.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I was just gonna ask, is that where you're on
Speaker 1: the Equalizer right now? Is that where that shoots?
Speaker 6: Yes?
Speaker 3: Amazing, Well, we have we have a lot of questions. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: So what is Queen Latifa, like we're dying to.
Speaker 5: Know everything you would imagine, like the good version of
Speaker 5: your imagination, and then like time stent.
Speaker 1: Oh wow, great. So she's like a Marishka Hargate of
Speaker 1: the Equalizer.
Speaker 5: Yes, one hundred percent she is. She's a Marishka of
Speaker 5: the Equalizer, a hip hop icon the Marias.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean looking at your IMBB, you are just booked
Speaker 2: and blessed on so many iconic shows, Sex and the City,
Speaker 2: dexter Sopranos. When did you realize like, oh damn, I'm
Speaker 2: a working actress and I'm making it. Oh wow.
Speaker 5: That there was a real crystallized moment where I was like,
Speaker 5: can I quit my day job because I would be working.
Speaker 6: I was a series regular on the show.
Speaker 5: And it was still like Nope, I'm going to work
Speaker 5: the cash regisir at this thing until they kicked me out.
Speaker 5: I'm going to sell I was. I was working at
Speaker 5: a baby clothes store. I'm going to sell the onesies
Speaker 5: until they fire me.
Speaker 3: And then I used to do that too.
Speaker 1: Really where yeah, in Connecticut where I grew up.
Speaker 6: Wasn't it a trip?
Speaker 5: I mean, did you have kids at the time?
Speaker 3: No, I did it, cause yeah, it was all of us.
Speaker 5: We were all a bunch of twenty year olds talking
Speaker 5: about like, oh, this child's a three T, like we
Speaker 5: didn't know from a three T.
Speaker 1: But I'd be like, the good thing about this is
Speaker 1: that they can really grow into it. She's an overseason. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: nothing like they literally run out of every They grow
Speaker 1: out of everything in ten minutes one hundred percent.
Speaker 7: And I don't know where you worked, but like the
Speaker 7: shirts that I sold were like forty dollars for like
Speaker 7: a six month old, and I was like, you know,
Speaker 7: there's going to be vomit on this and they're going
Speaker 7: to grow out of it in two days.
Speaker 3: No serious, same experience.
Speaker 6: So I was.
Speaker 5: I was on a show at the time and I
Speaker 5: was recurring. It was a show called hof. It was
Speaker 5: Showtime's first first foray into scripted and it was a
Speaker 5: really good show. Hanka's Area was the lead and Oliver
Speaker 5: Platte was was the like kind of the I played
Speaker 5: his assistant, and I was recurring the first season, and
Speaker 5: then they bumped me up to series regular the second season,
Speaker 5: and I still was like hanging on like to the
Speaker 5: cash register with my hands like wait wait, and I
Speaker 5: would give them my shooting schedule and then and then
Speaker 5: it was stressing me out and I think I just
Speaker 5: I just took stock and it was like can I
Speaker 5: do this?
Speaker 6: I guess I can, and I did it slowly.
Speaker 5: I cut back my hours and then and then finally
Speaker 5: when I was like, oh, I can do this and
Speaker 5: I quit. That was when I was like, well, I
Speaker 5: guess by default, then I'm all working after because this
Speaker 5: is how I'm paying for toilet paper and such.
Speaker 1: Yeah, amazing as a New Yorker. How was it when you,
Speaker 1: you know, got into the Law and Order Dick Wolf universe.
Speaker 6: Oh?
Speaker 5: Man, I feel like this is going to warrant several
Speaker 5: conversations because you guys, you guys, I did the pilot.
Speaker 3: We did not put that together.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 6: I was like in and out.
Speaker 5: I mean, this was when I was like, this is
Speaker 5: like when I was still not sure I could do this.
Speaker 5: Wanted to know. I always want to do this, but
Speaker 5: this was like this. I think it was my first job. Oh,
Speaker 5: it was my first job. So it was like very
Speaker 5: very The whole career was new to me. I didn't
Speaker 5: know anything, and there was this new show, a spin
Speaker 5: off of Law and Order, but it was just going
Speaker 5: to do sex crimes. And I was like, okay, and
Speaker 5: they cast me and I was like the waitress passing information.
Speaker 5: But it was a great cast. Patricia Richardson. I didn't
Speaker 5: work what I worked with. I worked with the two biggies.
Speaker 5: I was passing the information. They came to my restaurant,
Speaker 5: Marishka and I'm gonna call him Elliott Chris. They came
Speaker 5: to the to the restaurant and I gave them the
Speaker 5: pertinent information like you do. And yeah, and it was
Speaker 5: the pilot. It was the first day. It was And
Speaker 5: looking back on it, they were having.
Speaker 6: Pilot. It was a pilot energy like is this going
Speaker 6: to go? Is this not going to go?
Speaker 5: They were working stuff out, both very nice and when I,
Speaker 5: you know, came back several years later, literally I think
Speaker 5: it was seven years later. I got to tell them
Speaker 5: and I was recurring as like the tech. I got
Speaker 5: to tell them, Hey, I don't know that you would
Speaker 5: remember it, but I was there the first day because
Speaker 5: I think it was the first day. I have to
Speaker 5: check back, but I think it might have been the
Speaker 5: first day of the first thing, which I don't know
Speaker 5: makes me royalty. I don't Maybe you think I don't wow.
Speaker 2: That for special too, because you got to see them
Speaker 2: on this first day jitters like you're talking about, and
Speaker 2: then come back in what like season seventeen when it's
Speaker 2: this giant like I'm sure the attitudes and vibes were different.
Speaker 5: Uh, this is gonna be right and lang with your
Speaker 5: uh with the brand. Murska is lovely throughout the throughout
Speaker 5: of her being lovely and kind.
Speaker 6: Was always there.
Speaker 5: It was just more of a machine, like, yeah, it
Speaker 5: was a more of a well run machine. And and
Speaker 5: her taking the taking the rants, I mean, uh, Elliott,
Speaker 5: I'm just gonna always call.
Speaker 6: It Stabler was still there.
Speaker 5: It was kind of both of them, but but she
Speaker 5: very much was was the Uh yeah, just there's a
Speaker 5: there was a leadership, a natural leadership. They're much like
Speaker 5: Queen Latifa has. There's a natural leadership and a natural
Speaker 5: kindness that goes along with that.
Speaker 6: And I just.
Speaker 5: Think those are the people that are supposed to lead
Speaker 5: as opposed to to you know, tyrannical nuthouse if those
Speaker 5: are your only dues.
Speaker 1: So you were like you were on season one as
Speaker 1: this waitress and then how then you come on for
Speaker 1: season two for this episode that we're talking about today,
Speaker 1: scourge and did you did they make you audition again
Speaker 1: or were they're just like, we like her, let's bring
Speaker 1: her back for this.
Speaker 6: No, I auditioned.
Speaker 1: You auditioned, okay, And then did you have to like
Speaker 1: cry and be like, my roommate is dead and do.
Speaker 3: That whole thing?
Speaker 6: I can't remember.
Speaker 5: I mean, I'm sure I did at the audition in
Speaker 5: order to get it.
Speaker 3: Well, you did a great job. Like we were talking
Speaker 3: about you, how.
Speaker 1: Like so many people, so many young people on the show,
Speaker 1: their roommate is dead and they're like that sucks.
Speaker 3: Do you think she's gonna like can you take her curse?
Speaker 3: Like you, like in the history.
Speaker 2: Of this show, that reacted appropriately to the news. Given
Speaker 2: you weren't unpacking, you weren't moving bottles, you weren't rushing.
Speaker 2: You really were sad your roommate died. I watched it you.
Speaker 2: I watched that scene like eight times. I'm like, we've
Speaker 2: never seen this again.
Speaker 5: Oh, I love it. Thanks. I remember the director because
Speaker 5: I came in with that right. Uh you know you
Speaker 5: read this scene. You come in and I came with
Speaker 5: the level of it. And I do remember the director
Speaker 5: Alex saying, you know more, I want I want more.
Speaker 5: I took more of the hysteria. And I remember at
Speaker 5: the time because again I think this is still like
Speaker 5: I felt like a little bit of a baby in it.
Speaker 6: This was like a year after the I did the
Speaker 6: waitress thing, so this was I know, this was my
Speaker 6: third job I did. I did the SVU, then I
Speaker 6: did a law and Order proper and then this was
Speaker 6: my third job ever. And I remember being.
Speaker 5: Like, Okay, I'll do it because you're the boss, but
Speaker 5: I don't agree. And then of course on the van
Speaker 5: ride home, I thought she came home and her friend
Speaker 5: was chopped up into little like of course, Lisa, of
Speaker 5: course you're HYSTERI Alex.
Speaker 6: It's not too much.
Speaker 5: And then when I saw it, I was like, yeah,
Speaker 5: that is that is the appropriate response to coming home
Speaker 5: and your your friend is in pieces, like literal pieces.
Speaker 6: You're not doing laundry.
Speaker 2: Well, we're big sex in the city heads. Would you
Speaker 2: give us some scoop? Yes from the set?
Speaker 5: Okay, this is gonna go long.
Speaker 3: Let's go along, guys.
Speaker 2: I have some sorry, of course, because we're also obsessed
Speaker 2: with dexter, So honestly, we can just listen to you
Speaker 2: for hour, like we're so excited with what you're going
Speaker 2: to give us.
Speaker 5: Stop the recording, and then we'll have so much tea.
Speaker 5: I just feel like, oh gosh, Dexter, you're taking me back.
Speaker 5: So Sex and the City was, of course lovely, and
Speaker 5: it was the It helped that it was like the episode.
Speaker 5: I don't know if you guys remember, well, if you're
Speaker 5: Sex and the City heads, you will the whole like,
Speaker 5: he's not that into movement. And so I was the
Speaker 5: girl that Miranda stopped on the street or she's like
Speaker 5: getting her launch and she had just been told this
Speaker 5: Byry's new boyfriend that he's not just into you, and
Speaker 5: then she sees like a bunch of twenty year olds
Speaker 5: and I'm I And it was a lot of improv.
Speaker 5: The line I was given was you know, he's not
Speaker 5: calling me because he has to get his kitchen redone.
Speaker 5: And my friend was like, oh, yeah, totally, that's why
Speaker 5: is that call you back?
Speaker 6: And then we had to keep going.
Speaker 5: So I was like, yeah, you got to take out
Speaker 5: the wires, you got to take out the food, you
Speaker 5: got to make. It's a whole process. It's like a
Speaker 5: three day process. And then she comes in and she's like, yeah,
Speaker 5: I'm sorry, he's just not that into you. And then
Speaker 5: she walks away and I call her a bitch. So
Speaker 5: it was that's the way to be on sex in
Speaker 5: the City.
Speaker 2: Such an iconic New York moment, like eating lunch on
Speaker 2: the steps, like I just I like that.
Speaker 5: Yes, yeah, with all the other you know, people in
Speaker 5: suits eating their salads.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it was great, it was great.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: What do you get recognized from the most uh?
Speaker 5: For being other actors? No, that was a joke, for
Speaker 5: being the one Asian American or some they know. No,
Speaker 5: you know what ncis to the point where like I went,
Speaker 5: I visited a friend in Paris a long time ago,
Speaker 5: and the woman checking me in, let's just see me.
Speaker 1: But you've you've played like so many cops, detectives, agents.
Speaker 3: What is it about you you think that?
Speaker 1: Like, you know, I would look at you and think like, yeah,
Speaker 1: this lady went to the police academy and is going
Speaker 1: to kick my ass, Like, but you know you carry
Speaker 1: that in these shows.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 5: Maybe it's the Queen's shining through, like you know, she's
Speaker 5: pack and she's down a pocket knife somewhere in her
Speaker 5: manicure set. Or I don't know, I do think it
Speaker 5: goes in phases, like the the whatever decision makers, industry,
Speaker 5: whatever you want to call it. They the powers that
Speaker 5: be kind of decide what you are in that moment.
Speaker 5: And I went through, uh, especially when I first landed.
Speaker 5: I went through like the new beeface, Like I I
Speaker 5: was the cop, the lawyer or the whatever. But I
Speaker 5: was new because I was so young. And then after
Speaker 5: that I got casting one single camera comedy as like
Speaker 5: the Girl next Door with but she had a young kid.
Speaker 5: And then I had like four other things where okay,
Speaker 5: she's the she's the girl next door with the young mom.
Speaker 5: And then I did Crazy Stupid Love and I played
Speaker 5: Emma Stone's best friend and we.
Speaker 6: It was very raunchy.
Speaker 5: We were again we got to improv about how hot
Speaker 5: Brian Gosslin was, which was so difficult guys and pack sick,
Speaker 5: and then I was so then I was like everybody's
Speaker 5: best friend for a while. So I think, I think
Speaker 5: it's like what you're seeing doing and then if a
Speaker 5: just if someone who's in the power to make a
Speaker 5: decision likes it, then they tend to bring you in
Speaker 5: for that again. But I remember, like I didn't know
Speaker 5: from pr again. No one in my family did this.
Speaker 5: This was just something that I like to do, and
Speaker 5: I was like, I guess I'll try it. So I
Speaker 5: don't know for many of this stuff, but an article
Speaker 5: appeared I want to say it was two thousand and
Speaker 5: eight that was called Dear Hollywood, you need to give
Speaker 5: Wese Lapiras something else to do. And I couldn't tell
Speaker 5: if it was for me or it gets me. I
Speaker 5: think it was a nice thing. You got to run
Speaker 5: the line, but it was like, hey, listen, she's the
Speaker 5: new being fast and furio, she's the newbie and this
Speaker 5: she's a newbie, and huff like give her something. I
Speaker 5: think it was nice towards me because it was like,
Speaker 5: she can do other things.
Speaker 3: That's cool. I love that someone wrote that about you.
Speaker 2: So you know, like you said, you're doing TV movies, comedy, drama, procedurals.
Speaker 2: I'm assuming you love it all. Do you prefer one
Speaker 2: over the other? Like do you are little parts of each?
Speaker 2: Do you prefer it's school? You do it all?
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 5: I think now that I'm getting older, it has to
Speaker 5: do with the environment more than the genre. I think
Speaker 5: if the people are cool and the writing school I'll
Speaker 5: basically want to do it because yeah, I really like
Speaker 5: where I am now, and I can imagine a scenario
Speaker 5: where I'm doing some thing I don't know. I don't
Speaker 5: even know what I want, but I'll just throw it
Speaker 5: out there. I think what actors are supposed to want
Speaker 5: is like something maybe more edgy, or something more this,
Speaker 5: or something more that or and I can picture that
Speaker 5: and I can like it. But then if I picture
Speaker 5: the people not being cool or warm or kind or
Speaker 5: lacking in integrity, then it's hell on Earth. So yeah,
Speaker 5: final answer, it has to do with the quality of
Speaker 5: people around.
Speaker 2: And you don't have to name names, but have you
Speaker 2: been on sets that are hell on Earth?
Speaker 6: I think yeah.
Speaker 5: I think everyone has worked with and I have friends
Speaker 5: in the real world. I have finance friends, I have
Speaker 5: fashion friends, And I think it's a I truly think
Speaker 5: it's a when it's important, I e. When maybe there's
Speaker 5: a lot of money or prestige attached to it, people
Speaker 5: can get cray because they're like, everything just becomes at
Speaker 5: a level ten and you're truer personnel. I think it
Speaker 5: heightens what is already there. So if you were already
Speaker 5: a little bit of bully it's gonna be worse if
Speaker 5: you're already you know, kind or already kind of a
Speaker 5: natural leader.
Speaker 6: It's going to exacerbate what's already there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love the sirens. It's very New York. I
Speaker 2: like the sounds of New York.
Speaker 5: I do.
Speaker 3: I think it fits the show.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I loved Don't Trust the Being Apartment twenty
Speaker 2: three too. I just love it was so fun going
Speaker 2: through everything you've done, being like, oh, I've watched so
Speaker 2: much of this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and Unbelievable was like an amazing show that is
Speaker 1: I think very like adjacent to the SVU your universe,
Speaker 1: like in subject matter, you know.
Speaker 6: One hundred percent and that's the true crime of it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I loved that and like everybody in it
Speaker 1: was just so excellent. What was working with like Tony
Speaker 1: Kollette and Merret Weaver, was that like a good experience.
Speaker 5: Like Tony Collette is amazing as an actor, and she
Speaker 5: wasn't one of those that would jump in and out.
Speaker 5: I mean, she wasn't one of those that would stay
Speaker 5: in the accent, which I think is easier. She would
Speaker 5: just shoot and then talk to her kid and her
Speaker 5: normal and her normal accent is so strong, it's not
Speaker 5: not even a mix of that and American. And so
Speaker 5: the technicality of that alone was impressive. And then add
Speaker 5: to it that her end merit. Gosh, they just gave
Speaker 5: so much depth to what easily could have been a
Speaker 5: run of the mill procedural whatever.
Speaker 2: Are there lessons from you know, you mentioned Tony being
Speaker 2: able to go in and out of accents? Are there
Speaker 2: any lessons over your career you've seen or taken from
Speaker 2: set that you think about often?
Speaker 5: Well, Look, work ethic is big, right, I was, but
Speaker 5: I was trained to have really bad work at Like
Speaker 5: my my teacher.
Speaker 6: Was a borderline.
Speaker 5: I wasn't abusive per se, but it was very like
Speaker 5: if you're not giving one hundred percent, then go home,
Speaker 5: Like why are you, Like, don't put my name on
Speaker 5: your resume like that if you're going to put out
Speaker 5: that what you just did with your half ass homework,
Speaker 5: like take me off.
Speaker 6: As a teacher was very tough.
Speaker 5: She trained like Jim Gandolfini, she trained Kristin Davis, she
Speaker 5: trained a lot of really good actors. And so I
Speaker 5: came out with that and then and I think, honestly,
Speaker 5: I think that's the only reason why I worked because
Speaker 5: I mean it was no one was hiring this when
Speaker 5: I was coming out, and and I certainly don't lead
Speaker 5: with sexuality, like as an actress to no one was
Speaker 5: I wasn't selling it and no one was buying it.
Speaker 5: So the only thing I had was that work ethic.
Speaker 5: And then when I got to work, I would see
Speaker 5: the people that I admire have this, like do the
Speaker 5: same thing, and it just reinforced in me like yeah,
Speaker 5: you have to you have to do it, or or
Speaker 5: like you're just coasting and.
Speaker 3: What do you?
Speaker 5: What do you?
Speaker 6: What good are you? What are you doing?
Speaker 5: The other thing though, I got to work with jud
Speaker 5: Law and I said, this is the thing I want
Speaker 5: to know from you. This is the advice. And he's like,
Speaker 5: what I said, how do you stay away from crafty?
Speaker 5: And it was dead serious. I was dead too, because
Speaker 5: like the first season of Huff, my clothes weren't fitting
Speaker 5: and I was like, and I was so young and dumb.
Speaker 5: I was like, oh la, because you won't walk and
Speaker 5: it's like, you don't think it's the eight grilled cheeses.
Speaker 5: Every day I lunch wash out with the pizza.
Speaker 2: I'm like, no, what did he say?
Speaker 6: He legit I'll share with him.
Speaker 5: He legit gave me a good answer. He said, I
Speaker 5: go and he did this. People can't see what I'm
Speaker 5: doing in my hands. But he was like, I just
Speaker 5: I go into the future of like how I'll feel
Speaker 5: after I just go there. I go there, and then
Speaker 5: I feel it, and then I realized that I don't
Speaker 5: want to feel that way.
Speaker 6: And then that's how I say.
Speaker 1: Wah, he time travels mentally. That's interesting, man.
Speaker 5: He emotionally time travels gets upset and then time travels back.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, no, because I do what Jude Law does.
Speaker 2: But then I punish myself, like I know I'm going
Speaker 2: to feel sick, and then I go, you know what,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna do it anyways, but I'm gonna try self aware, try.
Speaker 5: To This is so self aware. I kind of respect it.
Speaker 5: You go there, you go, Oh, I'm gonna feel terrible,
Speaker 5: but you know what I'm gonna.
Speaker 3: You're gonna go where you can do it.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 6: Not at least you're not like ignorant.
Speaker 2: Because I'll talk about my own problems with whatever on
Speaker 2: the podcast and then listeners will give advice and I
Speaker 2: have to tell them like I will never actually do
Speaker 2: anything to better myself, so stop it. Like I'm just
Speaker 2: here to complain, and that's how I feel with food.
Speaker 2: Sometimes I'm like, I know this is not going to
Speaker 2: make me feel good, but I'm doing it.
Speaker 5: Back and it helps to call it out.
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh right, you.
Speaker 2: Are you gonna?
Speaker 3: I bet we're the same one.
Speaker 1: No you?
Speaker 3: Then you go? You go?
Speaker 2: Okay, So your character is just see as forensic tech.
Speaker 2: There's no name to her, which annoys us. Did you
Speaker 2: give her a name?
Speaker 6: Yes, I'll shoot, but it was like fifteen years ago.
Speaker 6: I can't remember, but I did give her a name.
Speaker 6: I did give her a name. I always do.
Speaker 5: I did an episode of Blue Bloods like on a fly,
Speaker 5: and it was the same thing, and I was like,
Speaker 5: you need to you need to give it a name.
Speaker 5: I think at that point my agent asked for it,
Speaker 5: which is such a weird thing to ask, but I
Speaker 5: don't want to. Gosh, what is Jenny? I can't remember that.
Speaker 5: It's okay, that's okay.
Speaker 1: So because you did like the first two seasons and
Speaker 1: then you came back for like seasons eight and nine
Speaker 1: to play this like recurring tech who was fun.
Speaker 3: To work with, Like, give us the scoop ice munch like.
Speaker 6: I mean, I didn't get them.
Speaker 5: I only got ice and lunch for the for this
Speaker 5: episode that we're talking about. Yeah, I was always with
Speaker 5: Marish good Elliott.
Speaker 3: Did you notice his butt?
Speaker 6: I did not notice his butt?
Speaker 3: Was what about? Well, you know his butt has taken
Speaker 3: the Internet by storm.
Speaker 5: I don't know this, No, I know, I thought in
Speaker 5: America's butt.
Speaker 6: I thought it was Chris the other No.
Speaker 2: So the new show came out with the Organized Crime
Speaker 2: and he's really into working out and he's sixteen. He
Speaker 2: looks incredible, And then all the gifts and memes started
Speaker 2: coming out from the show with his ass, and then
Speaker 2: he did a men's health spread and interview magazine where
Speaker 2: he's like really tight clothing and splits, pulling cars, eating
Speaker 2: pizza like and everyone just had like a summer of
Speaker 2: wanting all about Malana's ass.
Speaker 1: There would also be photos of him, like on set
Speaker 1: on STU that people were finding old photos of him
Speaker 1: like doing like lunges with like butt cheeks like clenched,
Speaker 1: and it's just funny, like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he has like he's pulling someone out of the
Speaker 2: water or like dunking a criminal, but his legs are
Speaker 2: spread like a stripper and his butts. Just people were like,
Speaker 2: what the fuck? So there was just like a big
Speaker 2: thing last year of the ass.
Speaker 1: But yeah, we weren't trying to just put you on
Speaker 1: the spot and be like are you a pervert?
Speaker 3: Were you noticing his ass?
Speaker 1: Like this is actually has a cultural relevance in the zone.
Speaker 5: I missed it. I missed it. It had not made it
Speaker 5: stribute back then.
Speaker 1: Then you seem like you're busy working and not reading
Speaker 1: blogs about Chris Maloney's ass all the time.
Speaker 3: So congratulations.
Speaker 6: I feel like, I don't know, I could do some
Speaker 6: work on it.
Speaker 3: You were really close to the butt though, that's a
Speaker 3: shame several times.
Speaker 5: I mean, but I'm thinking, yeah, well.
Speaker 1: And you have a movie, yeah, about the fabulous Filipino brothers.
Speaker 3: Well, I watched the trailer. It looks amazing.
Speaker 6: Oh good good.
Speaker 5: It just came out.
Speaker 6: What's today? The night?
Speaker 5: It came out yesterday? It came out the eighth. It's
Speaker 5: available on all streaming. It's very independent, bootstrapped, like creating
Speaker 5: opportunities where there is none. It's the Bosco brothers who
Speaker 5: were They just have been doing it since before they
Speaker 5: were doing it, since they were ten years old. And
Speaker 5: it's the four brothers and a sister, and so they
Speaker 5: just wrote this movie about their family, about their town
Speaker 5: in Pittsburgh, the other Pittsburgh, the West coast Pittsburgh. And
Speaker 5: it's it's kind of like a my big fat Greek
Speaker 5: wedding in that it's very family and like crazy family
Speaker 5: but love and like they're whatever culturalism is, but that
Speaker 5: really translate into every culture, you know what I mean.
Speaker 5: But it's raunchy, so it's not it's like a family comedy,
Speaker 5: but it's like don't take your kids. There's like there's
Speaker 5: a lot of it's very like dude humor in the
Speaker 5: best way. There's a lot of raunchy sex stuff but
Speaker 5: no nudity. I can't really explain. But it's funny. An
Speaker 5: it's funny, it's delightful, and.
Speaker 3: You're like a love interest, right, I like the love interest.
Speaker 5: So again an opportunity that you know, because unless I
Speaker 5: produce it, I'm not usually given that, you know. And
Speaker 5: it's the same with them. These are four leading men.
Speaker 5: They've been doing it for thirty years, but they were
Speaker 5: never given leads. So they created and the movie's cool
Speaker 5: because there's four brothers and the idea was like, Holly,
Speaker 5: we've been working, we've been supporting ourselves, but we've never
Speaker 5: been leads. So we're going to give each one of
Speaker 5: us a lead. And so they're the lead of their
Speaker 5: own vignette and then it ties up at the end.
Speaker 5: And by doing that, they accidentally created some Filipino American
Speaker 5: female leads. And I got to be the girl as
Speaker 5: opposed to like the girl's friend or the neighbor that
Speaker 5: wants to kill the girl or yeah, I got to
Speaker 5: be I got to be the whatever what they say,
Speaker 5: the hero in my own story. But aside from that,
Speaker 5: because I can get really like what diversity means and
Speaker 5: how it's good for everyone and everyone needs the seat
Speaker 5: at the table and it makes entertainment better, and it's
Speaker 5: like it gets all heady when really it's just it's
Speaker 5: a good movie. It's a good funny movie. People will
Speaker 5: laugh their ass off hopefully or be deeply offended, and
Speaker 5: that that's worth that's worth.
Speaker 3: The price of talking about it.
Speaker 6: Yeah, so I hope I hope people say it.
Speaker 5: It's not like it's on all the streaming Amazon and
Speaker 5: the Apple and all that.
Speaker 2: I also love that you mentioned and because my big
Speaker 2: fat Greek wedding, Like I wasn't Greed, I'm not Greek,
Speaker 2: but we're Russian and we relate it, and so it's
Speaker 2: like the specific to the macro. So it's about these
Speaker 2: Filipino brothers. But of course if you're an immigrant or
Speaker 2: you're going to relate too percent.
Speaker 5: Oh, I had the same experience you did.
Speaker 4: I was.
Speaker 5: I sat at that movie theater with my best friends
Speaker 5: Columbia and my other best friend's Dominican, and we all
Speaker 5: three of us left that movie theater like that was
Speaker 5: about me, except instead of a goat, like we do,
Speaker 5: pigs on it, but something's on a thicket, Like something's
Speaker 5: going to be on a sticket and you're gonna eat
Speaker 5: the skin and it's going to be delicious, and there's
Speaker 5: going to be, you know, crazy.
Speaker 6: People giving you advice.
Speaker 3: So I don't know.
Speaker 6: I hope you guys. I hope you guys see it.
Speaker 6: I hope everybody.
Speaker 5: Sees it and just like supports them because it's really cute.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we would have loved to out.
Speaker 2: It might be a weird statement, but we did have
Speaker 2: the King of the Philippines on lou Diamond Phillips on
Speaker 2: this podcast.
Speaker 5: Something happen that I didn't know the democracy to Okay,
Speaker 5: the actual King of the Philippines came on podcast.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I need to get on CNN.
Speaker 5: We like changed governmental structures, yeah, blue Diamond Phillips.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it just felt very Yeah, we just our Filipino
Speaker 2: friend was like, he's like, he's the one that coined
Speaker 2: him the King of the Philippines. We did not do that,
Speaker 2: but it was thrilling to talk to him. But if
Speaker 2: you wanted to talk anything about you know, you mentioned
Speaker 2: how early on people were not really casting like Asian
Speaker 2: actresses and there wasn't a lot of people and now
Speaker 2: twenty years later, it does seem different if you wanted
Speaker 2: to touch on that, if we.
Speaker 3: Wanted to just end, like whatever kind of you feel.
Speaker 6: Yeah, No, I always loved talking about stuff.
Speaker 2: Because we talked to Beatie Wong and something we talked about,
Speaker 2: oh yeah, because he was on this podcast list culturalisas
Speaker 2: that we both like, and how he was talking about
Speaker 2: how he was on Madame Butterfly or some thing decades
Speaker 2: ago where it was an all Asian group. But he
Speaker 2: it made him great, full and happy, but then he
Speaker 2: was also pissed that it had to be this specific
Speaker 2: big Asian thing.
Speaker 3: To have a big group of Asians.
Speaker 2: Like, so it was this double edged sword where he
Speaker 2: was happy to be with everyone but annoyed he can't
Speaker 2: just always experience that he mentioned like being on set
Speaker 2: and being able to talk about these like specific mushrooms
Speaker 2: with Bow and Yang, and he had never been on
Speaker 2: a set and been able to like talk about these mushrooms.
Speaker 2: I forgot what they were called, but like it's like
Speaker 2: these little moments made him feel very special.
Speaker 5: Yeah, wow, that makes me feel like, I mean, I'm
Speaker 5: gonna go a little bit bigger. There's a lot of women,
Speaker 5: a lot it's parody. There's like fifty percent women now
Speaker 5: in the equalizer in leadership roles, and that's very much
Speaker 5: by design. And I feel a difference when I communicate
Speaker 5: an idea. And it's one of those things where I
Speaker 5: didn't realize that it had. There had been extra barriers
Speaker 5: to trying to communicate my point until I had a
Speaker 5: female director and a female writer and a female producer
Speaker 5: and I just said less. And I was just able
Speaker 5: to say less because there was a collective like, oh,
Speaker 5: I get it. And that's how I relate to that
Speaker 5: Bowen BD story. And I think I think it's also
Speaker 5: a good thing that it can be this huge Asian
Speaker 5: American cast and have an American flavor to it, as
Speaker 5: opposed to what he was saying, where it's okay, it's
Speaker 5: all Asian, but it's very Asian from Asia, which has
Speaker 5: its value. It's just when it's too much one thing,
Speaker 5: I think that's when it's bad. When it's like, you know,
Speaker 5: we'll have a gay person on the Gay Show and
Speaker 5: it's gay, I feel like, all right, but now let's
Speaker 5: have let's just diversify our portfolio. And I think the
Speaker 5: more narratives we can put out there, I think narratives
Speaker 5: are the the silver bullet to pigeonholing a particular group
Speaker 5: of people or race.
Speaker 6: I think, you know, I came up, but I never
Speaker 6: wanted to.
Speaker 5: Be, nor should anyone be like the Filipino American or
Speaker 5: Asian American voice. And that's it, and that's very much
Speaker 5: what they we're trying to do to Margaret show. That's
Speaker 5: very much what they do when there's like, oh, there's
Speaker 5: one and the only way other than saying it with
Speaker 5: your voice, the only way is to show them. And
Speaker 5: part of the reason why I love the what the
Speaker 5: Bosco family did with the Filipino fabulous Filipino brothers. It's
Speaker 5: for leading men. So yeah, they're all Filipino, but there's
Speaker 5: like the good one, the you know what I.
Speaker 3: Mean, the.
Speaker 6: Fuck up the ladies man, the dark one.
Speaker 5: There's it's like, you can't there's not one way to
Speaker 5: be a Filipino leading man, you know, there's not one
Speaker 5: way to be a Filipino leading lady's. We have many
Speaker 5: flavors and we would never in a million years be
Speaker 5: like there's one way to be a blonde American actor
Speaker 5: or actress like this is it's like Reese Witherspoon or
Speaker 5: you know, it's Helen Mirren and that's it and you
Speaker 5: know what I mean, Or it's Amy Schumann. That's all
Speaker 5: you get. And I think that's what we do to
Speaker 5: underserved invisible cultures sometimes. So it's moving the needle because
Speaker 5: we are everything that I'm saying is happening.
Speaker 6: We're putting out narratives.
Speaker 5: People are going to see narratives, which is the important
Speaker 5: thing because we can talk about doing things out of
Speaker 5: the goodness of our hearts all we want, but nothing
Speaker 5: really moves the decision makers, I guess, or the people
Speaker 5: handling the purse strings like the dollar dollar bill, like
Speaker 5: once Crazy Occasions or Black Panther or Fast and Furious,
Speaker 5: even which if you look at that cast is.
Speaker 6: All the diverse.
Speaker 5: Yeah, once you see like eight billion, then that's the thing.
Speaker 5: Not like kindness or human sense or integrity. It's like, oh,
Speaker 5: fifty trillion dollars, we should.
Speaker 2: People will go through this.
Speaker 5: But I really do think it makes things funnier, like legit, yeah,
Speaker 5: the kindness of our hearts. But I think when there's
Speaker 5: more diverse you guys are writers. When there's more diverse
Speaker 5: points of view in the room, just more funnier shit happens.
Speaker 2: I always say, the people that are so against it,
Speaker 2: like you guys are missing out. You know, they're missing
Speaker 2: out on so many amazing talented people and cool performances
Speaker 2: and shows because of their ignorance. Where it's like you
Speaker 2: don't understand how much fun and smart and talented things
Speaker 2: you don't get to experience because you're scared of seeing
Speaker 2: something outside of yourself.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and the audience is missing out on that too.
Speaker 5: There's room for everybody. And I think part of the
Speaker 5: reticence is that like this idea that oh, that diversity
Speaker 5: is going to push me out, when in fact, it's like, no,
Speaker 5: we can all build something even funnier to get like
Speaker 5: we're all just going to get richer.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you could be the silly white best friend in
Speaker 2: an Asian show. You know that would be great.
Speaker 5: Yeah, let's you and me do a pilot where it's
Speaker 5: like all the best friends, like there's no.
Speaker 6: A and we're always on the phone.
Speaker 5: Like a typical scene would be like, ah, Marcy has
Speaker 5: a problem with man again.
Speaker 6: I got to get over there and help her see
Speaker 6: that he's the one.
Speaker 5: And you're like, I totally have to help my friend move,
Speaker 5: you know what I mean. It was just us talking
Speaker 5: about our friends.
Speaker 3: Talking about your best friends that we never see.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we don't have any lives. Oh that's so good.
Speaker 1: All right, that was fun. Yeah, she's fun. I'm glad
Speaker 1: we both discovered that we worked in upscale children's clothing
Speaker 1: as young people, because.
Speaker 2: I actually know other comedians that have done that. Oh really, Yeah,
Speaker 2: I think it's maybe a thing because the stores are
Speaker 2: dead and the folding is tiny.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we love well, I didn't even do comedy when
Speaker 1: I worked, like I was so young, but like you know,
Speaker 1: I loved and then once you work in retail where
Speaker 1: you have to fold close. Every time you go into
Speaker 1: another store, you fold close, and people think you work there.
Speaker 1: Like every time I would go into other stores, I
Speaker 1: would like look at a sweater and then refold in.
Speaker 1: People would be excuse me, do.
Speaker 3: You work here?
Speaker 1: And I'd be like, let me alone, you know, because
Speaker 1: I don't want to talk to people. Now.
Speaker 2: I never worked in reach.
Speaker 3: I should have just pretended I did. You didn't.
Speaker 2: Never. I was food service, reception and child's care.
Speaker 3: Mostly. I never did retail. I don't think I could.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was my high school job, and then a
Speaker 1: little bit and then in college, and then a little
Speaker 1: bit after college, and then that was it.
Speaker 2: But it likes it like you have to be very
Speaker 2: pleasant and very neat, and I don't want that. Oh yeah,
Speaker 2: you do.
Speaker 3: You have to be really nice. I remember, like I
Speaker 3: used to.
Speaker 1: You know, I love Cheetos, and I like the hard
Speaker 1: crunchy kind of Cheetos, and I would get them on
Speaker 1: my brakes, but I obviously couldn't get like cheeto dust
Speaker 1: all over my fucking hands and then go fold like
Speaker 1: beautiful white lay at clothing, so like I would fucking
Speaker 1: eat Cheetos with a fork on my break like a
Speaker 1: weirdo so much. Yeah, I was seventeen. I was like,
Speaker 1: I'm obviously eating cheetos. What else did we learn?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: What did we learned? Philis?
Speaker 2: I mean everything. I didn't know any of my.
Speaker 3: God, I didn't know the post mortem of this.
Speaker 2: This is actually the most post mortem that any of
Speaker 2: our episodes have been. I didn't know about syphilis penicillin.
Speaker 2: Life Insurance has to tell you stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you have to report STDs to the health department.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that it's not that you can only pass
Speaker 2: syphilis in the beginning and then just live with it
Speaker 2: as it's slowly eats your brain.
Speaker 3: Like I didn't know anything.
Speaker 1: Yeah, wait, what are the like physical symptoms of syphilis?
Speaker 3: Swiss cheese brain is what they say.
Speaker 1: No, that's if you have it for like, you know, decades,
Speaker 1: like he did. But if you just get it from
Speaker 1: like a hookup. I just want to look it up. Really,
Speaker 1: don't we have a vaccine for syphilis or it's not
Speaker 1: a vaccine. You just take an antibiotic. You just take
Speaker 1: penicillin and it goes away. I guess there's like a rash, fever,
Speaker 1: swollen litterness. Yeah, but it said that secondary syphilis can
Speaker 1: be mild and might not be noticed. Okay, so maybe
Speaker 1: that's what he had, because I was like, why didn't
Speaker 1: he like he didn't notice any weirdness when he first
Speaker 1: got it, But I guess he didn't. I either way,
Speaker 1: it's terrifying to think that you could have this like
Speaker 1: latent STD that could just transform you from a loving
Speaker 1: father of two and husband to a full on religious
Speaker 1: serial killer in the space of three years.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And also we learned that his wife is chill, Like
Speaker 2: he just held a knife in his the kids room
Speaker 2: and she was like, listen, you can't stay here, but
Speaker 2: you gotta go.
Speaker 1: But you but no big deal, no big gie. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's definitely a weird move for sure.
Speaker 2: No, this one is fucked up. And uh great acting.
Speaker 2: I like that he was in the Waltons. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Karen Allen. Oh, I forgot to mention Karen because everyone's
Speaker 1: gonna write to me. I'm sure about it. But Karen
Speaker 1: Allen was a huge part in the Indiana Jones movies.
Speaker 1: She's the love interest in like two Indiana Jones movies
Speaker 1: and she's in the more recent ones.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, Okay, Indiana Jones stands are listening huge ven diagram.
Speaker 2: I we should make more new ven diagrams. Yeah diagram.
Speaker 2: Oh you know what I saw on the internet. I
Speaker 2: sent it to you in a couple of my other
Speaker 2: virgos in my life, but it was a group of
Speaker 2: it seemed like teens. But they got together and present
Speaker 2: power points to other that I have to do with them,
Speaker 2: and it looked like a really good time. Maybe if
Speaker 2: you still have it or we'll find it and post it.
Speaker 2: But I was like, I would do a PowerPoint person.
Speaker 1: No, it looked so funny, like just they were just
Speaker 1: doing funny specific power points to their friend group, like
Speaker 1: probably like guys, guys, Sheila's dated that are lame or something.
Speaker 1: I don't even I'm making that up, but like, you know,
Speaker 1: it looked so like I could imagine us doing that
Speaker 1: and having a blast, because you know, we love to
Speaker 1: make a PowerPoint.
Speaker 3: Yeah, speaking of we're going on tour.
Speaker 2: There will be games, there will be power points for sure. Yeah,
Speaker 2: one hundred. We really can't not do it. It's where my
Speaker 2: skills thrive. If you're like, where does Lisa come alive?
Speaker 2: It's a power point? Well not really, I do the
Speaker 2: Google power point, So it's a little tough, but I
Speaker 2: make do.
Speaker 1: I make do you do do a good job though
Speaker 1: you are good, good at power Google slides whatever it is.
Speaker 2: I'm a Google slide mask. Have you still been whirdling?
Speaker 3: Yes, it's been getting harder. Have you noticed? I know,
Speaker 3: but I don't mind it. I have of Lisa nodding.
Speaker 3: I want everyone to know. But the New York Times
Speaker 3: is denying it.
Speaker 2: And it's like, I'm.
Speaker 3: Sorry, Nick, Yeah, that was that broke my brain.
Speaker 1: I got it, but like I got it at move
Speaker 1: five and was like I'm about to die, like this
Speaker 1: war doesn't exist, like I with my I was up
Speaker 1: at four in the morning with one of the kids
Speaker 1: and like he had put them back to bed and
Speaker 1: for some reason decided to do the wordle.
Speaker 3: What a mistake, because.
Speaker 2: Then my brain I did in a word that didn't
Speaker 2: have the C in the other letters, just to find
Speaker 2: out is it a wired Oh what is it? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, sometimes you do like a sacrifice move just to
Speaker 1: stir it up. But somebody messaged justin said, are you
Speaker 1: guys playing wordle on hard mode? I didn't even think
Speaker 1: that was a thing. I thought the whole thing about
Speaker 1: wordle was it was like it's just one way.
Speaker 2: Yeah it is. And people thought Aroma was hard, but
Speaker 2: it didn't. That one didn't stup me. But cynic I
Speaker 2: was like, oh the New York.
Speaker 3: Times, have you done Today's? Have you done Today's?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I did it.
Speaker 3: It was waste last night.
Speaker 1: I might figure it out like Today's wasn't like crazy,
Speaker 1: but it just didn't seem as easy as some of
Speaker 1: the ones were when I first started, Like I was
Speaker 1: getting twos and threes at the beginning.
Speaker 3: I'm like a five all the time now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, but I don't mind getting it at
Speaker 2: four or five. That never was it for me. Right,
Speaker 2: as long as I get it, I'm happy to me.
Speaker 1: That just is like indicative of the difficulty I think
Speaker 1: a little bit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I'm looking at it. I did get it,
Speaker 2: and I was wasted. It's just your I've been training
Speaker 2: for this for a year.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're a text twister, like this is your this
Speaker 1: is where you shine.
Speaker 2: And not long Like if there was one extra letter,
Speaker 2: I could be lost, But a five letter word, I
Speaker 2: can handle it.
Speaker 3: That's why wordle is perfect.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm literally today was like my thirty eighth game,
Speaker 1: thirty ninth game. I can't believe I've been playing this
Speaker 1: like for over a month. I thought it would like
Speaker 1: fizzle out, but well no.
Speaker 2: Someone tweeted like, are we going to finish this or no?
Speaker 2: And I was like, I'll play till I die. Yeah,
Speaker 2: one one a day, Like it's you know, you can't
Speaker 2: get that addicted. Also, I did get attacked on Twitter
Speaker 2: last week. You know, I guess it was a controversial tweet.
Speaker 2: I didn't think anything of it. The person who I
Speaker 2: was subtweeting and making fun of knew it was about
Speaker 2: them and did not care and like laughed about it.
Speaker 2: But Johnny Pemperton, a former guest of ours, he I
Speaker 2: just I got home last night and he just tweeted
Speaker 2: what did I miss?
Speaker 3: Just got here? And I thought that was funny. Yeah,
Speaker 3: like that was crazy.
Speaker 1: If you're interested, go to Lisa's Twitter and see the
Speaker 1: I thought it was pretty innocuous.
Speaker 3: And I am a friend of yours with children.
Speaker 2: But I was just wondering, and some mothers were very helpful.
Speaker 2: I was just wondering the psyche of posting excessively because
Speaker 2: I wrote constantly posting I love seeing children, but I
Speaker 2: like the constant I just was curious at what is
Speaker 2: in the brain, and a lot of moms and people
Speaker 2: that we know wrote I just can't help it.
Speaker 3: I can't stop like.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're like, my brain is broken. This is interesting
Speaker 1: to me. I know it might not be interesting to
Speaker 1: anyone else, but this is like what I like and great.
Speaker 1: I don't even post. I don't post anything five times
Speaker 1: a day, so it's like, you know for me, like
Speaker 1: it couldn't be my kids.
Speaker 2: Because then someone sent me a screenshot of someone that
Speaker 2: was really mad talking shit about me, which also, don't
Speaker 2: send people. You never have to tell me if someone
Speaker 2: said something mean about me, I do not need to know, don't.
Speaker 2: I don't get that, like you know he said this, Okay,
Speaker 2: well thanks for ruining my day.
Speaker 3: When you sent me the screenshots, I go, who is
Speaker 3: this conversation with? They sent you the screenshots? Like what
Speaker 3: is going on?
Speaker 1: It's like people just want to see Lisa get riled
Speaker 1: up because sometimes it's fun, like, but come on.
Speaker 2: No, I was There was no way I was gonna
Speaker 2: get into an argument with this person because it's like,
Speaker 2: it's not about you. I'm also not saying anything towards you.
Speaker 2: But I did mute his wife because she was so annoying. Yeah,
Speaker 2: well she Yeah, she posted so much that I had
Speaker 2: to mute her.
Speaker 3: So it's like so stupid. Twitter's dumb.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I just was curious and I love the
Speaker 2: moms that are just like, yeah, I never thought I
Speaker 2: would do this, but I.
Speaker 3: Just I can't stop.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know that's that is actually what I was
Speaker 2: looking for. And it gives you, I give it gave
Speaker 2: me clarity that I didn't see before.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: No, and I do want to pat my own self
Speaker 2: on the back. I saw texts talking shit about me.
Speaker 2: I have said nothing to this man. I don't give
Speaker 2: a shit cause I taught you.
Speaker 1: I thought you told me that you got on with
Speaker 1: him and were No, oh I misunderstood something you wrote me.
Speaker 3: Sorry, No, truly don't care.
Speaker 2: He's also someone Last time I saw him in New York,
Speaker 2: I ran into him and he said like, oh I
Speaker 2: heard you know, I heard this person say this and this,
Speaker 2: and I went and you should believe every word of it.
Speaker 3: I said, I have nothing to say to you. I
Speaker 3: don't know. Yes, yeah, this is like an enemy's crossover.
Speaker 2: Well no, it's more of a therapy thing, Like you know,
Speaker 2: you sit in therapy year after year thinking nothing is happening,
Speaker 2: and then one day you're like, whoa, Okay, yeah, I
Speaker 2: guess I'm not responding, but I'm talking about it to
Speaker 2: thousands of people on this podcast. Oh they're actually growth
Speaker 2: or no, this is all so boy, you can cut
Speaker 2: all of this. I'm a nightmare today.
Speaker 3: I feel crazy. I'm like, am I allowed to start?
Speaker 1: What?
Speaker 3: What's sister?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Can you so I can go grab that Gatorade
Speaker 2: zero I've been looking at.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, okay.
Speaker 1: I think this is a great transition from the lack
Speaker 1: of myntal health on Twitter to today's what would Sister
Speaker 1: peg do?
Speaker 3: Our weekly segment where we.
Speaker 1: Talk about an organization, we give you guys a link,
Speaker 1: a book, something that can sort of flesh out what
Speaker 1: we talked about, and this week we highlighted a crime
Speaker 1: where the perpetrator was a person suffering with schizophrenia. So
Speaker 1: we thought we would direct you this week to the
Speaker 1: National Institute of Mental Health NIMH, but specifically their schizophrenia
Speaker 1: research project, which is called Raise RAI se Recovery after
Speaker 1: an initials schizophrenia episode. Their website offers a lot of
Speaker 1: tools to help you understand schizophrenia, outlines treatment options strategies
Speaker 1: for those living with psychosis, and it focuses on a
Speaker 1: lot of young people experiencing this for the first time,
Speaker 1: which is as we mentioned, a lot of times when it.
Speaker 3: Surfaces is in young people.
Speaker 1: So they have everything from behavioral health treatment services locator
Speaker 1: to videos about early detection and how it can save lives.
Speaker 1: So go to www dot NIMH do nih dot gov,
Speaker 1: or we have a longer link in our show notes
Speaker 1: that will take you right there, or as always in
Speaker 1: our what would Sister peg do?
Speaker 3: Highlight on our Instagram stories. Thank you.
Speaker 2: Mental health is very important. Next week we will be
Speaker 2: doing the episode Bedtime. There's some mental health issues in
Speaker 2: that one. I'll tell you that much. Season eleven, episode eighteen,
Speaker 2: watch along with us Peacock. I mean now, I want
Speaker 2: OnlyFans like this is bullshit that you get to hear
Speaker 2: me say peacock for free.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, we're releasing a ring tone.
Speaker 2: Also, stop telling us you like how these episodes longer
Speaker 2: and you love listening to us, to us talk, this
Speaker 2: is what you get. This You get an unhinged Liza
Speaker 2: talking NonStop like get away from me, Bedtime.
Speaker 3: Thank you, We're obsessed with you.
Speaker 1: Yes, We love you guys. Hopefully we'll see you on
Speaker 1: tour and we'll see you next week.
Speaker 3: Bye.
Speaker 2: That's Messed Up is an Exactly Right production.
Speaker 1: If you have compliments you'd like to give us, or
Speaker 1: episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
Speaker 1: at thots Messed Up Pod at gmail dot com.
Speaker 2: Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod
Speaker 2: and on Twitter at messed Up Pod, and follow us
Speaker 2: personally at Kara Clank and at glitter Cheese.
Speaker 1: As always, please see our show notes for sources and
Speaker 1: more information.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much to our producer an Alie Snelson
Speaker 2: and to our mixing engineer RYO Baum, and to Henry
Speaker 2: Koperski for our theme.
Speaker 1: Song, and to Carly Geen Andrews for our artwork. Thank
Speaker 1: you to our executive producers Georgia Hardstar, Karen Kilgareff, Daniel
Speaker 1: Kramer and everyone at Exactly Right Media.
Speaker 2: Listen, subscribe, and leave us a review on Apple podcast, Stitcher,
Speaker 2: or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1: Dun, Dun,