1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:02,800 Speaker 1: How often does a founder get to go buy their 2 00:00:02,840 --> 00:00:05,680 Speaker 1: baby back and relaunch it. 3 00:00:09,560 --> 00:00:11,280 Speaker 2: There Are No Girls on the Internet. As a production 4 00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:18,840 Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative, I'm Bridget Toad and this 5 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:19,920 Speaker 2: is there Are No Girls. 6 00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:20,320 Speaker 3: On the Internet. 7 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:25,560 Speaker 2: The heyday of movie Pass was truly one of those 8 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 2: you had to be there moments in tech and culture. 9 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:31,240 Speaker 2: If you were swiping that I kind of read movie 10 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:33,960 Speaker 2: Pass card back then, like I was, you probably found 11 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:38,559 Speaker 2: yourself wondering how is this even sustainable? Turns out you 12 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:42,320 Speaker 2: weren't alone. That very question is at the heart of 13 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:46,239 Speaker 2: the HBO Max documentary Movie Pass Movie Crash, which just 14 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:49,960 Speaker 2: scored an Emmy nomination. In many ways, the story of 15 00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:52,800 Speaker 2: movie Pass is one of those classic tales of what 16 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:56,400 Speaker 2: we call in shitification, right when something good gets wrecked 17 00:00:56,400 --> 00:00:59,959 Speaker 2: by private equity, relentless growth chasing and short term things. 18 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:03,480 Speaker 2: But it's also a story about race and what it 19 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:06,479 Speaker 2: means to be a creative black founder steering something huge. 20 00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 2: There's also a different story at the heart of this, 21 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:13,400 Speaker 2: a genuine love of movies, that magic moment when the 22 00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:15,319 Speaker 2: lights go down and the screen lights up. 23 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 1: My name is Stacy Spikes and I'm the co founder 24 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:20,440 Speaker 1: of Movie Past. 25 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:25,880 Speaker 2: That deep love of movies is something Stacy and I 26 00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:30,640 Speaker 2: both share, and that's where our story begins. So you 27 00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:33,560 Speaker 2: love movies, and I've heard you say that your favorite 28 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:35,920 Speaker 2: movie from when you were a kid is a Blade Runner. 29 00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:37,800 Speaker 2: What was it about Blade Runner that. 30 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:38,480 Speaker 3: Just did it for you? 31 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:42,120 Speaker 1: I think I was eleven years old when I saw it, 32 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:45,479 Speaker 1: and it was a rated R film, and I had 33 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:49,320 Speaker 1: to beg my parents, and so they wouldn't let me 34 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:52,200 Speaker 1: see it alone. So my dad took me one day 35 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:57,040 Speaker 1: after work, and I remember my father falling asleep completely 36 00:01:57,080 --> 00:02:02,120 Speaker 1: and snoring in the film. But there was something about it. 37 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:06,320 Speaker 1: I had already seen Star Wars, but this almost seemed 38 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:10,080 Speaker 1: like a reality you could touch, that you believed was 39 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:13,480 Speaker 1: not that far away, where I think Star Wars was 40 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:16,960 Speaker 1: so far away it was fantasy, but Blade Runner felt like, 41 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:19,920 Speaker 1: you know, this is this is going to happen in 42 00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 1: a few years kind of thing. And when you're that young, 43 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:28,040 Speaker 1: you don't know the difference between reality and what's real 44 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:30,280 Speaker 1: and what's not. And I remember, I want to work 45 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 1: in this world or in this business. I want to 46 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:36,520 Speaker 1: work in robotics, want to I want to do this 47 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:39,320 Speaker 1: kind of stuff that these people are talking about and 48 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:43,040 Speaker 1: I just found it a beautiful film and at the time, 49 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 1: I think it touched me like a lot touched a 50 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:48,919 Speaker 1: lot of people. It wasn't a very big box office success, 51 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:54,200 Speaker 1: but it just stole my heart. There's literally on my 52 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:57,320 Speaker 1: wall in my office. I have a poster Blade Runner 53 00:02:57,360 --> 00:02:58,120 Speaker 1: still up today. 54 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:00,800 Speaker 2: Do you think your parents knew was a seed that 55 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:03,360 Speaker 2: they were planting in you by exposing you to movies 56 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:04,440 Speaker 2: from such a young age. 57 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:08,679 Speaker 1: Well, both of my parents were really big movie lovers. 58 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:12,799 Speaker 1: My dad was a really big clean Eastwood fan, and 59 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 1: my mom was a type that she's a lot like 60 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:19,680 Speaker 1: me that she just goes It's like it's like part 61 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:22,400 Speaker 1: of your culture, right, It's just part of your life. 62 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:25,840 Speaker 1: And on Saturdays she used to give me and my brother, 63 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:31,120 Speaker 1: like I swear, five bucks each and she would drop 64 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:33,440 Speaker 1: us off and come and pick us up in the 65 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 1: afternoon and she would run all of her errands. And 66 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 1: this is how she had a Saturday babysitter for kids. 67 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:48,680 Speaker 1: And today she would be arrested for that behavior. But 68 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:52,400 Speaker 1: true story. So every Saturday we were whether it was 69 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:56,440 Speaker 1: a double feature or seeing the same movie again, and 70 00:03:56,480 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 1: the managers knew us and we got our little hot 71 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 1: dog and so popcorn and what was what was quite amazing. 72 00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 1: I think after I saw Blade Runner, I told my 73 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 1: parents I wanted to take a screenwriting class. And the 74 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:15,040 Speaker 1: only one they could find was at Rice University, which 75 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:19,119 Speaker 1: was a college course, and they it was a summer course, 76 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:22,200 Speaker 1: and my mom got permission because she knew some people 77 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:24,839 Speaker 1: at Rice. She got permission for this eleven year old 78 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:28,480 Speaker 1: to sit in a movie screenwriting course. And I remember 79 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:31,480 Speaker 1: my feet could really touch the floor that well. 80 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:34,080 Speaker 2: When I was young, I wanted to work in movies 81 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 2: or something involving like culture or the arts. And I 82 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:40,000 Speaker 2: remember I would watch movies. My parents would take me 83 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:43,440 Speaker 2: to go rent a movie and I would but ending credits, 84 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:46,160 Speaker 2: I would pause it and look at different jobs and 85 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 2: be like, oh, a gaffer, Maybe I could do that. 86 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:52,040 Speaker 2: Like the idea of you know, being able to somehow 87 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:54,159 Speaker 2: be involved in the creation of this thing that was 88 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:57,800 Speaker 2: so magical that could transport you to a different world 89 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:00,680 Speaker 2: from your like suburban town. It was just all like 90 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:04,360 Speaker 2: it really felt like something that was a far away dream. 91 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:06,160 Speaker 2: And then you get older and you're like, oh, somebody 92 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:07,279 Speaker 2: has this job, why not me? 93 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, it when you said transport you you know, I 94 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:15,160 Speaker 1: always call it riding the light. It's like the lights 95 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:18,919 Speaker 1: go down in the theater and you have even if 96 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:22,800 Speaker 1: you watch the trailer, you have no idea where you're 97 00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 1: about to be transported to. You can go back in time, 98 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:29,200 Speaker 1: you can go far off into the future, you can 99 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:33,960 Speaker 1: go you know, metaphysical. It's like you you have no 100 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:37,000 Speaker 1: idea where you're going to go. And I find that 101 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:43,000 Speaker 1: always so exciting about that experience. So I I just 102 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:47,120 Speaker 1: this weekend, the last three weekends, each weekend I went 103 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:52,000 Speaker 1: to see Sinners. And first time I saw it in 104 00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:54,839 Speaker 1: the same week and I went to regular screening, and 105 00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 1: then I saw it on Imax, and then I went 106 00:05:57,040 --> 00:06:02,640 Speaker 1: this weekend. And each time it's a different movie. Right, 107 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:07,920 Speaker 1: there's something different, you see something else, there's an added thing. 108 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:13,000 Speaker 1: And while I've never been a filmmaker, I'm always looking 109 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:16,080 Speaker 1: at where the camera sits. Why did they choose to 110 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:18,720 Speaker 1: come up from below, or why are they coming from 111 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:22,440 Speaker 1: on high or how are they panning? And what they 112 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:27,000 Speaker 1: want you to see and how the cinematographer and different 113 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:30,560 Speaker 1: lighting like the way Dune would change its whole color 114 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:35,680 Speaker 1: palette depending upon what world you were on. Just all 115 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 1: of that stuff, like my mind just geeks out on 116 00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:38,880 Speaker 1: all of it. 117 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:43,479 Speaker 2: Movie Pass launched in twenty eleven, but that shiny red 118 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:45,919 Speaker 2: car didn't hit my wallet until a few years later. 119 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:49,520 Speaker 2: By then, it was just nine dollars and ninety five 120 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:52,840 Speaker 2: cents a month for unlimited movies, so going to see 121 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:56,280 Speaker 2: even one movie a month made it totally worth it. 122 00:06:56,279 --> 00:06:58,279 Speaker 2: It kind of feels like a fever dream now, but 123 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:01,400 Speaker 2: Movie Past made you feel like a god walking into 124 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:04,240 Speaker 2: that theater. You could be walking down the street, spot 125 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:07,880 Speaker 2: at theater, walk in and watch something, no planning, no hesitation. 126 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:11,360 Speaker 2: And I did that a lot. I saw movies I 127 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 2: never would have picked in theaters I never would have 128 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:18,120 Speaker 2: gone to otherwise. It made movie going feel spontaneous, accessible 129 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:21,600 Speaker 2: and even kind of luxurious. I'm not ashamed to admit 130 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:23,840 Speaker 2: that a few times I even used a movie Pass 131 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:25,480 Speaker 2: just to be able to use a bathroom in a 132 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 2: movie theater while I was out and about. So for me, 133 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:31,240 Speaker 2: we were solidly still in the this is awesome era 134 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:34,880 Speaker 2: of the story. But even then, every time I swiped 135 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 2: that movie pass card, I'd think, how is this sustignables? Like, 136 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:41,680 Speaker 2: how is this making anybody any money? It kind of 137 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:45,520 Speaker 2: felt like the money wasn't even real and if it was, well, 138 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:49,400 Speaker 2: it wasn't my problem. I want to talk about Movie 139 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:52,280 Speaker 2: Past because I remember the height of Movie Pass, and 140 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:55,440 Speaker 2: for people who weren't there, it's like it truly was 141 00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:59,040 Speaker 2: that you had to be there moment in culture. It's 142 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:01,520 Speaker 2: kind of a joke in my house. My partner one 143 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:04,920 Speaker 2: of our first dates, I was in a movie and 144 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:07,200 Speaker 2: they texted like, Hey, do you want to get a drink? 145 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:08,560 Speaker 2: You want to hang out? And so I left the 146 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:10,680 Speaker 2: movie to come meet them and they were like, Wow, 147 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:13,040 Speaker 2: you must really be into me if you like left 148 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:15,120 Speaker 2: the theater. And I was like, nah, homie, movie Pass, 149 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:17,600 Speaker 2: I'll just go catch the end tomorrow. What was it 150 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 2: like to be part of it in that heyday, in 151 00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 2: its height, when like it was really poppin', you know. 152 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 1: One of the weirdest, our most outer body experiences that 153 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 1: I had was I remember going to Regal Union Square 154 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:37,640 Speaker 1: and I think it was on a Saturday, and I remember, 155 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:40,840 Speaker 1: so where you go and if you're getting your ticket 156 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:43,840 Speaker 1: in the theater, you walk into kind of this vestibule 157 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:47,280 Speaker 1: and there's two walls, but they kind of sit almost 158 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:50,680 Speaker 1: at an angle. You walk in this way, and there's 159 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:53,840 Speaker 1: one wall here and one wall there. And I was 160 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:57,200 Speaker 1: standing at my wall, and I kid you not, everybody 161 00:08:57,240 --> 00:09:00,040 Speaker 1: pulled out a movie pass and I looked over to 162 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:03,320 Speaker 1: the other side and they all had movie passes too, 163 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:06,360 Speaker 1: and people were waiting, and it was surreal. It was 164 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:09,800 Speaker 1: like and people were looking at each other like, yeah, 165 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:12,560 Speaker 1: you're part of the club too, and we know each 166 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:15,560 Speaker 1: other and we're you know, we always had this same 167 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:19,400 Speaker 1: movie passes for movie people, right, and we movie people 168 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:23,800 Speaker 1: understand what that means. And that was a very surreal moment. 169 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:27,079 Speaker 1: That's when I knew we were sitting in another world. 170 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:30,400 Speaker 1: Then you were always on the grind for years, trying 171 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 1: to get this thing and get it up the hill, 172 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:35,840 Speaker 1: and everybody's trying to knock you down and it's not 173 00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:38,840 Speaker 1: gonna work and no one's gonna like it, and the 174 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:42,760 Speaker 1: theaters aren't going to allow it. And then boom, it 175 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:45,400 Speaker 1: just it's it's everywhere. And that was that moment. 176 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:48,440 Speaker 2: How did the idea come to be? 177 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:53,800 Speaker 1: You know, it wasn't I don't think it's revolutionary. It 178 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:57,840 Speaker 1: was kind of like, we should make Netflix for movie theaters. 179 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:02,800 Speaker 1: It was just this idea that everyone was going in 180 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:07,040 Speaker 1: the direction of subscriptions. So you had music going subscription, 181 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 1: you had you know, streaming, you had everything going from 182 00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:16,480 Speaker 1: your people were doing food coming to your house on 183 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:21,120 Speaker 1: a subscription, and movies just seemed to make sense to 184 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:24,080 Speaker 1: a certain number of people who go often enough. And 185 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:26,800 Speaker 1: what you were doing was for the theaters you were 186 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:32,199 Speaker 1: increasing attendance and for the consumer you were driving savings 187 00:10:32,559 --> 00:10:36,959 Speaker 1: and reducing mental friction like should I go, shouldn't I go? 188 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:39,280 Speaker 1: Then it just became a question of do I have 189 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:43,480 Speaker 1: the time right? And I know, for me, would my 190 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:48,720 Speaker 1: movie pass, not only being a creator but a customer. 191 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:51,920 Speaker 1: I would be in a city somewhere and oh I 192 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:56,160 Speaker 1: got two hours before my next meeting, and boom, I'm 193 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:59,840 Speaker 1: in a movie, you know. And it kind of changed 194 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:03,439 Speaker 1: the friction of it. While it may not be much 195 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:06,560 Speaker 1: that twenty dollars you make, should I spend the money 196 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:10,800 Speaker 1: on this? It took that friction away, and that's was 197 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:13,679 Speaker 1: a really big difference. You know that I saw it happening. 198 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:16,240 Speaker 2: It's like you had to be there, if you know, 199 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:18,360 Speaker 2: you know kind of moment and culture. I've tried to 200 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:21,040 Speaker 2: describe what it was like to people who missed it, 201 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:23,920 Speaker 2: and I don't feel like I can articulate that that 202 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:27,160 Speaker 2: cultural shift and like, yeah, just what a time it 203 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:29,160 Speaker 2: was in those early days. 204 00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:32,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was a you know, the big thing was 205 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:36,440 Speaker 1: in taking that friction away. It was about focusing on 206 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:42,240 Speaker 1: behavior and focusing on going and just you know, being 207 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:47,040 Speaker 1: in the habit and it's it's weird, like some people 208 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:50,080 Speaker 1: might not understand it. But it was also not so 209 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:53,440 Speaker 1: much about the money. It was about being a member 210 00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:57,480 Speaker 1: of a group of people whose behavior It was like, 211 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:00,920 Speaker 1: there are there are dead heads, right, and you would 212 00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:04,959 Speaker 1: hear about deadheads saying like if somebody said to you, 213 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:09,480 Speaker 1: I took three months off my job to go follow 214 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:13,200 Speaker 1: the grateful dead around for the summer, you'd think they were. 215 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:17,120 Speaker 4: Crazy, right, But people do that, And you would see 216 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:21,840 Speaker 4: white people talking about, yeah, I wouldn't follow the debt. 217 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:26,440 Speaker 4: But I felt like movie passed to movie people was 218 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:30,960 Speaker 4: not only this card carrying member that yeah, I'm one 219 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:34,439 Speaker 4: of those people, and it was I'm a centophile. 220 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:38,120 Speaker 1: I love movies. Movies are a way of life, and 221 00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:41,840 Speaker 1: movies are something that are so important to me that 222 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 1: I want to make this investment in its future and 223 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:51,439 Speaker 1: my future. And that monthly payment that I was making 224 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:56,760 Speaker 1: was also a forward looking statement of my commitment to 225 00:12:56,880 --> 00:13:00,680 Speaker 1: this art form. And so that's what it made it 226 00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:03,520 Speaker 1: really powerful to me and what we saw with other people. 227 00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:08,160 Speaker 1: It had that that no one had ever built a 228 00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:12,080 Speaker 1: community around movie going. There was you're a member of 229 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:15,800 Speaker 1: this theater chain, or you're a member of the Disney 230 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:18,880 Speaker 1: Club or something like that, but no one had ever 231 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:22,920 Speaker 1: done and around just movie going in general. I remember 232 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:28,560 Speaker 1: people saying I'm gonna go see every Oscar nominee on 233 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:31,040 Speaker 1: movie pass right and they would say I'm and they 234 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:34,720 Speaker 1: would post it and they that was that was, you know, 235 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:37,360 Speaker 1: such a huge change, and I thought something great for 236 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:38,679 Speaker 1: our cinematic culture. 237 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:42,680 Speaker 2: Yeah. Like that, Like the cultural in group building I 238 00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:45,400 Speaker 2: think is really important because you know, if you're a 239 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:48,920 Speaker 2: movie movie people are a we are a weird type 240 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:50,840 Speaker 2: of people. It's a weird type of person who's like, 241 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:52,680 Speaker 2: I want to see the movie. I want to read 242 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:54,679 Speaker 2: eight reviews about the movie. I want to see what 243 00:13:54,679 --> 00:13:56,360 Speaker 2: they're saying on a Reddit, I want to I want 244 00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:57,920 Speaker 2: to put it on letter bots. Like that is a 245 00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:01,240 Speaker 2: particular kind of person. And I think you built something 246 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:04,560 Speaker 2: that was like a way to signify that you were 247 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:05,800 Speaker 2: in this group. 248 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:09,440 Speaker 1: So I did a podcast yesterday and I asked them 249 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:12,840 Speaker 1: what movies had they seen lately, And it was very 250 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:15,600 Speaker 1: funny the two movies they named. I said, you saw 251 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:17,920 Speaker 1: that in theaters? They were like, no, no on streaming, Oh no, 252 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:22,640 Speaker 1: no movie, go to the movies. And it's funny how 253 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:26,040 Speaker 1: you have some people who think if I watched it 254 00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 1: on my phone, it's the same thing, right, Like if 255 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:34,760 Speaker 1: you got to listen to a print song on your 256 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:37,920 Speaker 1: phone and you got to see Prince, Like, those are 257 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:38,920 Speaker 1: not the same thing. 258 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:43,080 Speaker 2: No, And I mean not to go back to Sinners, 259 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:45,160 Speaker 2: but I hadn't been to the movies in a while, 260 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 2: and Sinners was the first time I had been to 261 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:49,080 Speaker 2: the theater in the kind of a little bit, and 262 00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:54,240 Speaker 2: we were essentially dancing together, having this communal experience. I 263 00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:57,760 Speaker 2: forgot how fun and how special it is to go 264 00:14:57,800 --> 00:15:01,440 Speaker 2: to a theater, this communal. The lights go down and 265 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:04,080 Speaker 2: all of a sudden, y'all are like family, you're strangers, 266 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:07,200 Speaker 2: especially especially a black movie. It's like it's like it 267 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:10,280 Speaker 2: is a special thing. And there is just no way 268 00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:12,400 Speaker 2: I would have had as much fun watching it on 269 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:14,120 Speaker 2: my couch on TV. There's just no way. 270 00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 1: No, I think The most recent most fun I had 271 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:25,360 Speaker 1: was when I went and saw Nope, and it was 272 00:15:25,480 --> 00:15:30,520 Speaker 1: like when Kiki's running and people that they're like, run, bitch, run. 273 00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:34,560 Speaker 2: Yes, there is a special thing. 274 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:37,720 Speaker 1: You are not going to get that in your house. 275 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:41,680 Speaker 1: It is by yourself. I don't care how animated you 276 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:44,960 Speaker 1: are about the movie you're watching. And when I went 277 00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:48,640 Speaker 1: and saw Minecraft, that was crazy. 278 00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:49,280 Speaker 3: Uh. 279 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:55,600 Speaker 1: When when I saw the Beyonce film and when she 280 00:15:55,840 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 1: did Uncle Johnny the Uncle Johnny track and the fans 281 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:04,240 Speaker 1: came popping out, I was like, oh shit, it's like, 282 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:08,000 Speaker 1: you know, it's it's It's like whenever somebody says I 283 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:10,280 Speaker 1: watched it at home or Watson on my phone, I 284 00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:14,840 Speaker 1: feel bad for him. 285 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:27,160 Speaker 3: Let's take a quick break at our back. 286 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:30,880 Speaker 2: I believe movies or forever. I think that we'll still 287 00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:34,760 Speaker 2: have movie theaters, regardless of whatever technological advancements or changes 288 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:39,760 Speaker 2: might happen. But when I hear about people who are 289 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:42,960 Speaker 2: how can I put this putting up barriers to the 290 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:45,200 Speaker 2: experience of like getting lost in a movie, Like they're 291 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:47,160 Speaker 2: gonna watch it on their phone or they're gonna text 292 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:50,040 Speaker 2: through if you know, they want to have another screen 293 00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:53,360 Speaker 2: to occupy their mind. I. Yeah, I just sometimes feel 294 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:56,400 Speaker 2: bad because you know, part of the fun is giving 295 00:16:56,440 --> 00:17:00,080 Speaker 2: yourself fully over to this immersive world. And I do 296 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:04,880 Speaker 2: you worry that we are in a climate where some 297 00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:08,119 Speaker 2: people are not allowing themselves the beauty of that experience 298 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:10,800 Speaker 2: because it's like, oh, well, I'll get the gist of it, 299 00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:12,399 Speaker 2: I'll text through it or what have you do? 300 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:13,360 Speaker 3: Know what you know what I mean? 301 00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:18,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you know. I we have this saying that 302 00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:23,639 Speaker 1: adventures should never come with a pause button. And you know, 303 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:27,919 Speaker 1: the powerful thing about it is you can't pause. You 304 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:30,719 Speaker 1: don't want to run to the bathroom. You are in 305 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:34,280 Speaker 1: the middle of an experience that the roller coaster started 306 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:37,800 Speaker 1: and you do not get off until it ends. And 307 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:41,760 Speaker 1: when I'm at home or I'm not in that type 308 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:46,439 Speaker 1: of environment, I cannot help but naturally be distracted and 309 00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:51,520 Speaker 1: get a diminished experience, you know. And we talked about 310 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:58,960 Speaker 1: how cinema was going to kill Broadway, and then television 311 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:02,960 Speaker 1: was going to kill cinema, and then streaming was also 312 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:06,360 Speaker 1: going to kill cinema and DVD and VHS and blu 313 00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:12,240 Speaker 1: ray and larger screens, and the reality is it is 314 00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:15,840 Speaker 1: still the number one out of home entertainment activity in 315 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:19,800 Speaker 1: the world. By far, people go to the movies ten 316 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:23,240 Speaker 1: times more than all sporting events combined. No matter what 317 00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:26,760 Speaker 1: part of the world you're in, whether you're in Asia, 318 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:30,280 Speaker 1: whether you're in Africa, or whether you're in India or 319 00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:33,840 Speaker 1: even in America, we go ten times more. So I 320 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:39,280 Speaker 1: think I think that the headlines blow it out of proportion. 321 00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:43,320 Speaker 1: It's still you know, two thirds of Americans every year 322 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:46,960 Speaker 1: go to the movies at least once, and that's that's 323 00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:52,680 Speaker 1: a big music concerts anything. Think of it like this 324 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:57,439 Speaker 1: on one movie that breaks one hundred million dollars in 325 00:18:57,480 --> 00:19:02,119 Speaker 1: a single weekend. That movie movie had more people go 326 00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:05,280 Speaker 1: to it than all of the games of the entire 327 00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:09,600 Speaker 1: NFL season coming up. Wow, one movie. So when people 328 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:11,959 Speaker 1: I think it's the King of the Hill that people 329 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:15,320 Speaker 1: still like to beat up on. But I, like you 330 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:18,919 Speaker 1: think that it is the cheapest experience you can for 331 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:22,160 Speaker 1: a live event. It is accessible, and it's opened three 332 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:25,040 Speaker 1: hundred and sixty five days a year. I don't think 333 00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:26,040 Speaker 1: it's going anywhere. 334 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:30,879 Speaker 2: So what exactly went wrong with Movie Pass? Well, it 335 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:34,600 Speaker 2: was the usual growth at all costs. Remember how I 336 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:38,960 Speaker 2: was describing gleefully swiping into movie theaters thinking good thing. 337 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:42,320 Speaker 2: This math is somebody else's problem. Yeah, there's a reason 338 00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:45,920 Speaker 2: that math didn't work. In twenty seventeen, private equity firm 339 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:50,639 Speaker 2: Helios and Matheson bought movie Pass. Mitch Lowe, a former 340 00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:53,920 Speaker 2: Netflix executive, and Ted Barnsworth, who as far as I 341 00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:56,800 Speaker 2: can tell, was just basically a professional scammer, were brought 342 00:19:56,800 --> 00:20:00,159 Speaker 2: in as leadership. There was absolutely a racial dynamic at 343 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:03,439 Speaker 2: play here too. You have a service created by black people, 344 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:06,119 Speaker 2: and then you bring in two white guys who maybe 345 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:08,480 Speaker 2: look the part of what some people assume a tech 346 00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:11,800 Speaker 2: CEO looks like, just without any of the actual vision. 347 00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:15,919 Speaker 2: Ted and Mitch's big idea to save movie Pass dropped 348 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:18,720 Speaker 2: the price down to nine dollars and ninety five cents 349 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:21,639 Speaker 2: a month for unlimited movies. And as much as my 350 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:25,720 Speaker 2: greedy ass liked that price point, Stacy warned it was unsustainable, 351 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:29,480 Speaker 2: and he was fired from the company for saying. Zone Sure, 352 00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:34,880 Speaker 2: subscriber skyrocketed, but the service quickly became unusable. Movie Pass 353 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:39,359 Speaker 2: started blocking users from seeing movies, intentionally resetting passwords and 354 00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:43,160 Speaker 2: blaming fake fraud alerts, you know, something the government kind 355 00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:46,360 Speaker 2: of thinks of as a crime. According to the FTC 356 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:50,320 Speaker 2: movie Pass did this to seventy five thousand users. The 357 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:54,240 Speaker 2: FTC says that Mitch and Ted knew about ordered and 358 00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:58,239 Speaker 2: helped run this so called password disruption program they were 359 00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:02,080 Speaker 2: running on paying customers. Meanwhile, Mitch and Ted were also 360 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:06,560 Speaker 2: blowing through movie passes money, like flying the wrapper fifty 361 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:09,840 Speaker 2: cent to Coachella on a movie pass branded private jet. 362 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:14,680 Speaker 2: Why who knows? The Justice Department says this was all 363 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:18,720 Speaker 2: a scam. They lied to investors claiming the nine dollars 364 00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:22,160 Speaker 2: and ninety five cents model was profitable when they privately 365 00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:25,840 Speaker 2: admitted it wasn't. They also hyped up some powerful AI 366 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:29,320 Speaker 2: that was meant to monetize movie pass user data, only 367 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:34,000 Speaker 2: that AI didn't actually exist. Classic AI washing, a tech 368 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:37,280 Speaker 2: CEO vaguely claiming that AI is doing a thing it 369 00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:41,480 Speaker 2: is absolutely not doing. Both Mitch and Ted eventually applied 370 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:45,320 Speaker 2: guilty to securities fraud. They faced actual jail time. In 371 00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:48,800 Speaker 2: just eight years, movie Pass went from massive growth to 372 00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:52,439 Speaker 2: total collapse and stacy while he was out of the 373 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:59,159 Speaker 2: company that he founded. What did it feel like to 374 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:02,199 Speaker 2: be pushed out of something that you built, you know, 375 00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:03,840 Speaker 2: that was that was your baby? 376 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:08,879 Speaker 1: Well you you know you watch movies and you watch 377 00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:13,480 Speaker 1: stuff and if you saw a biopic and I don't know, 378 00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:19,680 Speaker 1: Cinderellaman or some movie where some some lead characters something 379 00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:21,919 Speaker 1: goes wrong with him, you like, you shouldn't have let 380 00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:24,639 Speaker 1: that happen. You should have you know. And it's funny 381 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:28,520 Speaker 1: when you're inside of it and it's unfolding in real time. 382 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:32,000 Speaker 1: And it was very simple, kind of big boy chess 383 00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:35,680 Speaker 1: moves where it was like we got some investor capital, 384 00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:42,600 Speaker 1: the we had three board seats that additional money asked 385 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:45,320 Speaker 1: to expand the board to five, and he had then 386 00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:48,280 Speaker 1: three seats and we had two. And then he brought 387 00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:51,080 Speaker 1: Mitch in and the next thing, you know, the dynamics 388 00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:54,639 Speaker 1: of the board had changed and they were then able 389 00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:59,240 Speaker 1: to make decisions that we couldn't stop. And it you 390 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:02,199 Speaker 1: kind of think, oh, we're all friends here and we 391 00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:04,359 Speaker 1: all have the same purpose and we're rowing in the 392 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:09,080 Speaker 1: same direction, and then quickly the dynamics had shifted, and 393 00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:15,280 Speaker 1: then you realize too late you're out. But people say, 394 00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:17,800 Speaker 1: what would you have done differently? And I said, I 395 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:23,120 Speaker 1: honestly don't know. Because you're out raising capital and there 396 00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:28,000 Speaker 1: are some businesses you can go make a little hair salon, our, 397 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:32,240 Speaker 1: a pizza shop, and you have your initial startup capital 398 00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:34,679 Speaker 1: and you work your way up over many years. But 399 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:39,600 Speaker 1: when you're building something that is like a national theater 400 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:43,560 Speaker 1: subscription circuit, you can't do a little at a time. 401 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:45,840 Speaker 1: You kind of have to do it all, and so 402 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:48,919 Speaker 1: you have that build cost, and so you have to 403 00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:51,520 Speaker 1: build fast and someone or someone else is going to 404 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:55,360 Speaker 1: build it and beat you to the race. Like Netflix, 405 00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:57,520 Speaker 1: if you can get there, and you can get there 406 00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:02,280 Speaker 1: first and established dominance, you can withstand the storm because 407 00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:04,959 Speaker 1: you were first to the party. And even when people 408 00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:08,600 Speaker 1: cut away like they're starting to do with streaming services, 409 00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:11,720 Speaker 1: they're still going to keep the one. Back in the day, 410 00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:16,640 Speaker 1: nobody would cancel HBO, right, it was like you had 411 00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:21,600 Speaker 1: your HBO. So it's similar to that, and that having 412 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:26,520 Speaker 1: gone through that experience, you realize how how many you 413 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:30,840 Speaker 1: know a lot of diverse founders are artists woke up, 414 00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:34,919 Speaker 1: whether it was Sammy Davis Junior or Red Fox or 415 00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:37,399 Speaker 1: Richard Pryor, and they woke up and they were broke. 416 00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:42,560 Speaker 1: How I broke? You got to walk through something similar 417 00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:46,520 Speaker 1: and you realize it can happen to you too, no 418 00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:47,920 Speaker 1: matter how smart you are. 419 00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:49,399 Speaker 3: So. 420 00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:52,159 Speaker 2: I remember watching the girl group TLC give one of 421 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:54,960 Speaker 2: the most honest interviews I have ever seen after winning 422 00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:58,960 Speaker 2: a Grammy for their breakout album Crazy Sexy Cool, but asked, 423 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:01,680 Speaker 2: how can you sell million records and still be broke? 424 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:04,280 Speaker 2: Their answer was a sobering reminder. 425 00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:07,280 Speaker 1: Trust me, you can sell ten million nails and be 426 00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:09,080 Speaker 1: broke if you have greedy people behind. 427 00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:14,000 Speaker 2: It's kind of a warning no matter how talented, successful, 428 00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:16,480 Speaker 2: or smart you are, you can still end up on 429 00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:20,679 Speaker 2: the outs especially if you're a black creative. Stacy's story 430 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:23,360 Speaker 2: it's ultimately about what it means to navigate this kind 431 00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:26,800 Speaker 2: of dynamic. Getting pushed out of the very community that 432 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:29,520 Speaker 2: you built and being left to feel like you have 433 00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:31,760 Speaker 2: nothing on the other end of it is a story 434 00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:35,240 Speaker 2: far too many of us know all too well. Stacy 435 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:38,200 Speaker 2: writes about this in his book Black Founder, The Hidden 436 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:43,159 Speaker 2: Power of being an Outsider. Watching the documentary, I was 437 00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:46,240 Speaker 2: really struck by the ways that it was a story 438 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:50,880 Speaker 2: about race, and you know, the reality is not great 439 00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:55,240 Speaker 2: for you know, folks of like entrepreneurs of color. I 440 00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:58,320 Speaker 2: think it was what like less than one percent of 441 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:01,639 Speaker 2: a funding goes to us, and so is there a 442 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:05,040 Speaker 2: negative perception that comes with Thunders handing over a big 443 00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:08,240 Speaker 2: check and a lot of trust over to a black founder. 444 00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:11,439 Speaker 2: Do they feel more comfortable handing over that trust and 445 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:14,160 Speaker 2: handing over that money to somebody who looks like Mitch 446 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:16,320 Speaker 2: and Ted versus somebody that looks like me or you. 447 00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:20,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I definitely. I think there is a 448 00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:25,320 Speaker 1: black tax that you have to pay, and I think 449 00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:29,159 Speaker 1: that you know people. Well, let me, I'm going to 450 00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:32,479 Speaker 1: say something that it's my experience, but it may it 451 00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:35,119 Speaker 1: may sound funny the way it's going to come out. 452 00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:39,159 Speaker 1: I think we are creatures of habits and we follow 453 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:43,000 Speaker 1: pattern recognition, and I'll give you a thought experiment and 454 00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:47,440 Speaker 1: what I mean. So I was being interviewed by I 455 00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:49,679 Speaker 1: think it was a New York Times and it was 456 00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:53,600 Speaker 1: a woman writer, and she asked me a similar question, 457 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:56,560 Speaker 1: and I said, you know, if we go outside. We 458 00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:58,840 Speaker 1: were at the Angelica, and I said, if we walk 459 00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:04,760 Speaker 1: outside onto Houston Street and we start asking people, close 460 00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:07,560 Speaker 1: your eyes and tell me what a tech founder looks like. Right, 461 00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:11,760 Speaker 1: they're gonna describe or give me a name, or tell 462 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:14,320 Speaker 1: me what you think of tech founder. I told her, 463 00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:16,600 Speaker 1: they're not gonna describe someone who looks like me, and 464 00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:19,600 Speaker 1: they're not gonna describe someone who looks like you. But 465 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:24,600 Speaker 1: I said, tell me what a star basketball player looks like, 466 00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:27,080 Speaker 1: or tell me what a star athlete looks like, or 467 00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:32,600 Speaker 1: even give me a star player in golf or even tennis, 468 00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:36,000 Speaker 1: or even gymnastics or any of those things. Well, they 469 00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:38,640 Speaker 1: may describe someone who looks like me when it comes 470 00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:42,840 Speaker 1: to that. And again that's that thing about pattern recognition. 471 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:46,520 Speaker 1: And I think when I was working on my book 472 00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:48,800 Speaker 1: and we were deciding what the cover was gonna be, 473 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:53,600 Speaker 1: we talked about black founder and it was like I 474 00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:56,399 Speaker 1: wanted to put my face on the cover so that 475 00:27:56,880 --> 00:28:00,680 Speaker 1: more and more you're gonna see this is what founders 476 00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:04,480 Speaker 1: look like too write. And once upon a time we 477 00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:08,359 Speaker 1: were not in any sports, and so we had negro leagues, 478 00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:12,000 Speaker 1: but we weren't on the main field. So over time, 479 00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:16,919 Speaker 1: I think it can change, but there needs to be 480 00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:19,200 Speaker 1: more of us who are out there making it happen, 481 00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:21,480 Speaker 1: and that they get to see us and they start 482 00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:24,960 Speaker 1: to realize, Okay, this is acceptable. I don't think it's 483 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:29,200 Speaker 1: like racism, like they're not as good. I think it's 484 00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:34,439 Speaker 1: it's a categorizing in a way to say because I 485 00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:37,240 Speaker 1: don't see this that often, I'm going to trust it 486 00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:40,560 Speaker 1: less or I need more to be convinced that it works. 487 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:45,520 Speaker 2: I was reading an interview before we got on. I 488 00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:48,640 Speaker 2: think it was with the make the director of the film. 489 00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:51,040 Speaker 2: One of the instances that did not make it into 490 00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:53,280 Speaker 2: the film was that folks would come into the room 491 00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:57,400 Speaker 2: and automatically assume by pass you and automatically assume like, well, 492 00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:01,120 Speaker 2: certainly this white person is the founder. And I think 493 00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:03,080 Speaker 2: that speaks to what you're talking about. It's not a 494 00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:05,600 Speaker 2: question of ability. If every time you walk into a 495 00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:08,440 Speaker 2: room like that, the white guy is the founder. I 496 00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:11,560 Speaker 2: can understand how we need to see more and more 497 00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:13,960 Speaker 2: founders that look like you, founders look like me, so 498 00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:16,880 Speaker 2: that folks break those patterns. 499 00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:20,440 Speaker 1: One hundred percent. It's just pattern recognition. Once you start 500 00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:23,760 Speaker 1: changing the pattern enough, people become fine with it. I think, 501 00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:28,160 Speaker 1: you know, with pattern recognition and being able to see 502 00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:34,120 Speaker 1: how things can change over time. Like first black love 503 00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:38,400 Speaker 1: on screen was crazy. You didn't see that interracial love 504 00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:42,920 Speaker 1: on screen was you remember with Jungle Fever, right, that 505 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:48,040 Speaker 1: was so taboo? And then I remember Denzel doing people 506 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:51,280 Speaker 1: were saying, why don't you ever kiss anybody in a movie, right, 507 00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:56,040 Speaker 1: but he would have Julia Roberts or some lead across 508 00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:59,160 Speaker 1: him and they couldn't. They never touched each other. And 509 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:04,200 Speaker 1: then when I saw Moonlight, I was like, that's a 510 00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:11,280 Speaker 1: huge accomplishment. You saw black love. You saw same sex 511 00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:15,400 Speaker 1: black love, and it wasn't even Broke Back Mountain violent 512 00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:18,760 Speaker 1: in the tent. I'm taking this shit. Black Love. It 513 00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:25,160 Speaker 1: was beautiful. And that's what I mean by now you 514 00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:28,840 Speaker 1: can see people moving around in the world and it's fine. 515 00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:32,640 Speaker 1: It's like pattern recognition. It's one of those strange things 516 00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:37,080 Speaker 1: about our time, how people are trying to roll back 517 00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:41,880 Speaker 1: things that are now commonplace and trying to roll history 518 00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:46,200 Speaker 1: back to the nineteen fifties, as if that's something more 519 00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:47,720 Speaker 1: sacred but interesting. 520 00:30:50,760 --> 00:31:03,480 Speaker 2: More after a quick break, let's get right back into it. 521 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:08,640 Speaker 2: In Stacy's book Black Founder, The Hidden Power of being 522 00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:12,600 Speaker 2: an Outsider, Stacy says that being traditionally marginalized as an 523 00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:15,560 Speaker 2: entrepreneur does come with challenges, but it's not always a 524 00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:18,760 Speaker 2: bad thing. Sometimes it gives you the perspective to see 525 00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:22,520 Speaker 2: needs others might overlook. That outsider's insight is what led 526 00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:26,480 Speaker 2: Stacy to create Urban World, now the largest Academy Award 527 00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:30,560 Speaker 2: qualifying Black and Multicultural film festival in the world, and 528 00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:33,200 Speaker 2: nearly three decades later, it's still going strong and it's 529 00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:37,200 Speaker 2: twenty ninth year. The subtitle of your book the Hidden 530 00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:40,840 Speaker 2: Power of being of being an outsider. I've always thought 531 00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:44,720 Speaker 2: this that, you know, being at the margins or being 532 00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:48,680 Speaker 2: someone who's like traditionally marginalized, it can actually be a 533 00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:51,920 Speaker 2: place of power for folks who want to build something sometimes, 534 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:54,920 Speaker 2: Like for instance, with Urban World, you saw an overload 535 00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:58,040 Speaker 2: need in your own people and in the community, and 536 00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:00,600 Speaker 2: we're able to build something that spoke to this need 537 00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:03,240 Speaker 2: that existed, right, And so I feel like some of 538 00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:06,400 Speaker 2: what you're trying to do is like reframe this thing 539 00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:09,000 Speaker 2: that is so often we're told as like a negative, 540 00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:11,200 Speaker 2: as like a kind of a source of strength. It's like, yeah, 541 00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:13,440 Speaker 2: I bring a different perspective. I can see things that 542 00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:15,760 Speaker 2: maybe other folks can't see, and that is a that 543 00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:17,800 Speaker 2: is a in some ways a gift. 544 00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:21,440 Speaker 1: That's right. So when we started Urban World, it was 545 00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:27,640 Speaker 1: like you had John Singleton, you had Spike Lee, and 546 00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:32,280 Speaker 1: you amazed occasionally had another director who would pop up 547 00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:36,080 Speaker 1: and do something, but there was so many other directors 548 00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:38,800 Speaker 1: trying to break in and trying to get on the scene, 549 00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:41,720 Speaker 1: and it's kind of like, you know, if we get 550 00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:45,360 Speaker 1: to play, we're gonna rock this, like and and and 551 00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:49,160 Speaker 1: the fact that the gatekeepers there was a very systematic 552 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:55,520 Speaker 1: type of gatekeeping. And what I struggled with was, Ah, 553 00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:57,920 Speaker 1: I'm not I don't want to get on my soapbots 554 00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:01,000 Speaker 1: too much. But what I struggled with was the well 555 00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:08,880 Speaker 1: intentioned gatekeepers, often white. Their version of what they liked 556 00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:16,400 Speaker 1: to see was black pain. And sometimes those of us 557 00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:20,040 Speaker 1: who are coming from the experience don't just want to 558 00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:23,600 Speaker 1: see that. We want to see us having fun. We 559 00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:26,160 Speaker 1: want to see us being the Cosby's. We want to 560 00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:29,320 Speaker 1: see us making money, we want to see us in love. 561 00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:34,640 Speaker 1: We don't just want to see that. Oh, I feel 562 00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:39,080 Speaker 1: so bad about what happened during slavery or during civil 563 00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:43,000 Speaker 1: rights and the black pain experience. What about the black 564 00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:44,480 Speaker 1: beautiful fun experience? 565 00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:44,760 Speaker 3: Right? 566 00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:49,320 Speaker 1: And so the things that were bubbling to the top 567 00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:53,360 Speaker 1: were still those same experiences, but regular black life or 568 00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:57,560 Speaker 1: fun black life wasn't getting seen because it wasn't critically acclaimed, 569 00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:01,040 Speaker 1: and we felt that all all of it needed to 570 00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:05,440 Speaker 1: be seen. And at some point someone said Urban World 571 00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:12,640 Speaker 1: became to cinema what Showtime at the Apollo became to music. 572 00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:17,080 Speaker 1: It became this curation place and if you made it here, 573 00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:19,319 Speaker 1: you can make it anywhere. Kind of think, if we 574 00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:23,280 Speaker 1: say it's great and we think you're great, then you're great. 575 00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:28,279 Speaker 1: And that was like if you rub the stone at 576 00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:31,520 Speaker 1: the Apollo and you made it there, forget about it. 577 00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:33,399 Speaker 1: We don't care what the rest of the world says. 578 00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:35,960 Speaker 1: We know you're the best because we are tough critics. 579 00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:40,319 Speaker 1: And I remember when Ava Duverney was our publicist, and 580 00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:44,320 Speaker 1: I remember Ava sitting in the theater we were watching 581 00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:47,120 Speaker 1: dream Girls. Her mom's next to her, and she goes, 582 00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:49,800 Speaker 1: you know, I really want to make a movie. I go, well, Ava, 583 00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:53,520 Speaker 1: we got Urban World. Make it. We'll premiere it. And 584 00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:56,360 Speaker 1: she made her first short film and almost every film 585 00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:59,880 Speaker 1: Ava's ever made, she's come back to Urban World and Showcase. 586 00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:04,160 Speaker 1: So it's it was our moment to move civil rights 587 00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:08,799 Speaker 1: from music to film, and an Urban World was that 588 00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:10,480 Speaker 1: thing to help make that happen. 589 00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:14,279 Speaker 2: That's so beautiful. And I don't know, I mean, I 590 00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:17,040 Speaker 2: think those investments that you make in people and their 591 00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:19,759 Speaker 2: stories and their vision, they really come back. It says 592 00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:21,440 Speaker 2: something that she continues to come back. 593 00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:25,520 Speaker 1: Course. Yeah, and I think it's great to have a 594 00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:30,040 Speaker 1: home base. And it just feels good to have a home, 595 00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:33,440 Speaker 1: have a people that are supporting you and rooting you 596 00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:37,200 Speaker 1: and watching you go out around the world changing the world. 597 00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:41,400 Speaker 1: And our stories, you know, our experience and our struggle. 598 00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:45,480 Speaker 1: I travel all over the world, and what's really funny 599 00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:52,000 Speaker 1: about these times we're walking through America's greatest export is us. 600 00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:56,120 Speaker 1: When you go to France, or you go to England, 601 00:35:56,320 --> 00:36:00,000 Speaker 1: or you go to Hong Kong, those kids are where 602 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:06,800 Speaker 1: wearing Jordan's They're wearing Kobe's shirt, They're watching Black Panther. 603 00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:11,480 Speaker 1: It's like we are what they are most proud of. 604 00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:16,080 Speaker 1: And when you think of the possibilities of America, the 605 00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:21,320 Speaker 1: Black experience is the one that everyone holds up as, Oh, 606 00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:23,920 Speaker 1: that's why I want to go there. Sure you can 607 00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:26,560 Speaker 1: be a doctor or a lawyer or whatever, but we 608 00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:30,480 Speaker 1: have such a unique experience about coming from the bottom 609 00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:33,840 Speaker 1: up that that is one of America's greatest exports. And 610 00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:37,040 Speaker 1: yet why would you want to kill that? People love 611 00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:40,759 Speaker 1: the idea of coming here because of those possibilities, and 612 00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:44,240 Speaker 1: they see it in music and film they love walking 613 00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:48,840 Speaker 1: around Brooklyn, knowing the streets where so much of hip hop, 614 00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:53,120 Speaker 1: and coming to the Blue Note and seeing jazz and 615 00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:57,640 Speaker 1: seeing all of these things where constant waves of our 616 00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:03,080 Speaker 1: experience dominate the world code. So I just I think 617 00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:07,480 Speaker 1: it's really important about that's what God gave to us 618 00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:08,440 Speaker 1: to share to the world. 619 00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:10,800 Speaker 2: You did a TED talk about the use of AI 620 00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:14,840 Speaker 2: in filmmaking, and you sounded like you really do think 621 00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:18,279 Speaker 2: that film and music and culture and stories have the 622 00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:21,279 Speaker 2: ability to literally change the world, and that if more 623 00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:24,200 Speaker 2: people have the ability to make projects like this, that 624 00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:25,719 Speaker 2: power only grows. 625 00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:29,960 Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell you a quick little story. So back 626 00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:34,680 Speaker 1: in Warner Brothers music history, and I know this from 627 00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:37,200 Speaker 1: the music industry because I was there before I came 628 00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:41,279 Speaker 1: into film. When you take you used to have to 629 00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:45,880 Speaker 1: go into a recording studio and you had to record stuff, 630 00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:48,600 Speaker 1: and it was very expensive. And the first person to 631 00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:51,960 Speaker 1: really do that in our community was Barry Gordy with Motown. 632 00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:56,600 Speaker 1: Now Here comes MIDI recording, where you can do a 633 00:37:56,680 --> 00:38:01,640 Speaker 1: drum machine and you can do all this stuff. And 634 00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:06,920 Speaker 1: this seventeen eighteen year old kid has a demo and 635 00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:12,080 Speaker 1: the head of music at Warner brothers went to see him, 636 00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:16,560 Speaker 1: and it's Prince. And he asked, Prince, who played on 637 00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:20,760 Speaker 1: your album? And he said, I played all the instruments, okay, 638 00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:24,320 Speaker 1: But he had the drum machine, he had the task 639 00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:28,240 Speaker 1: Can four track, he had the synthesizers, he had the guitar, 640 00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:32,839 Speaker 1: and he sang, and you could now go and make 641 00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:36,320 Speaker 1: an album r at least a demo in your bedroom, okay. 642 00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:40,839 Speaker 1: And what that did, and the sampling and being able 643 00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:44,360 Speaker 1: to sample music and put the samples in the keyboard 644 00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:49,680 Speaker 1: exploded music. So what do you think is gonna happen 645 00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:55,160 Speaker 1: when filmmaking gets affordable, that kids in bedrooms can now 646 00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:58,400 Speaker 1: make movies. The same thing that happened with hip hop 647 00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:02,920 Speaker 1: is about to happen with the longer visual form of storytelling. 648 00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:05,600 Speaker 1: And you can't stop it. And that's what I talked 649 00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:09,200 Speaker 1: about during my ted Ai talk. We've seen this before 650 00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:13,200 Speaker 1: in technology with music industry. You can make you can 651 00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:15,479 Speaker 1: make a full album off of your iPhone right now, 652 00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:21,040 Speaker 1: right So the distance between what you imagine and what 653 00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:24,640 Speaker 1: you you believe to happen, the distance between those two 654 00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:28,319 Speaker 1: gets shorter and shorter and shorter. And AI is going 655 00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:30,399 Speaker 1: to make that and it's going to bring the cost 656 00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:33,919 Speaker 1: way down. Movie making is a very rich person's game. 657 00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:36,800 Speaker 1: You're about to make it that kids are going to 658 00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:39,239 Speaker 1: blow our minds with the place that they're going to 659 00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:39,759 Speaker 1: take us. 660 00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:43,520 Speaker 2: Now, it's a very I mean, I love to hear 661 00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:48,640 Speaker 2: an optimistic vision for the future for once, But what 662 00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:50,640 Speaker 2: do you say to people who say the opposite, that 663 00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:53,680 Speaker 2: AI is simply going to kill creativity in film. 664 00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:58,120 Speaker 1: You have people on both sides of the argument kind 665 00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:02,560 Speaker 1: of promoting doomsday scenario. On either side, filmmaking is going 666 00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:06,239 Speaker 1: to become so expensive it's going to die, or filmmaking 667 00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:08,600 Speaker 1: is going to become soho cheap, no one's gonna make 668 00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:12,839 Speaker 1: it anymore. Well, it never happens that way because as 669 00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:19,719 Speaker 1: artists mature up. Prince didn't just stay recording in his bedroom, right, 670 00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:25,320 Speaker 1: And when you saw many synthesizer bands, the ones who survived, 671 00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:29,320 Speaker 1: they all went to real instruments, and you saw bands 672 00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:32,440 Speaker 1: who hadn't used synthesize or pre recorded stuff go the 673 00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:36,800 Speaker 1: other way. So why do you see Christopher Nolan and 674 00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:40,520 Speaker 1: others shooting on imax and shooting on film stock. Why 675 00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:44,480 Speaker 1: do you see that because they look at the masters 676 00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:46,879 Speaker 1: that came before them, and there's stuff that they want 677 00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:49,640 Speaker 1: to do, and they play with the technology and they 678 00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:53,279 Speaker 1: go forward and backwards in time, and that's how all 679 00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:57,400 Speaker 1: art is, you know, And so I'm not worried about it. Artists, 680 00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:02,600 Speaker 1: artist tools change and change and change and change, but 681 00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:07,600 Speaker 1: we are still connected to the artists and their journey 682 00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:13,600 Speaker 1: and experience. And a robot or an AI system still 683 00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:17,879 Speaker 1: needs to run through the human, you know, vessel that 684 00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:21,719 Speaker 1: we as people will care about, right We want to 685 00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:24,320 Speaker 1: know where you're from, what block you grew up on, 686 00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:27,960 Speaker 1: what trials and tribulations you went through to make this 687 00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:32,040 Speaker 1: piece of content. And that's when when the audience will 688 00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:34,919 Speaker 1: care if you If it's just I spit it out 689 00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:39,000 Speaker 1: on my computer, no one's gonna care, you know, we don't. 690 00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:43,839 Speaker 1: We didn't care if Whitney, Houston are are what do 691 00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:47,239 Speaker 1: you call? Dolly Pardon wrote I Will Always Love You. 692 00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:51,320 Speaker 1: But when that song came out through Whitney, we heard 693 00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:57,239 Speaker 1: we heard her mother, we heard Dion Warwick, her aunt, 694 00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:01,319 Speaker 1: we heard her church upbringing, We heard all of that 695 00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:05,680 Speaker 1: come through Whitney, and you can't replace that, you know. 696 00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:07,680 Speaker 1: That's the part that I think is very special. 697 00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:10,480 Speaker 2: So it sounds like you're saying that even if creators 698 00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:13,040 Speaker 2: are finding ways to use tech in their work, it 699 00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:15,080 Speaker 2: really all comes down to whether or not they're doing 700 00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:18,680 Speaker 2: so in service of creating something authentic, you know, something new, 701 00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:22,200 Speaker 2: something real, because if it's not authentic, your audience is 702 00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:23,799 Speaker 2: really going to be able to sniff it out, like 703 00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:25,320 Speaker 2: well know, yeah. 704 00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:28,440 Speaker 1: We've had do you remember Milli Vanilli and sampling and 705 00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:31,719 Speaker 1: people not singing on their own albums, whether it was 706 00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:37,160 Speaker 1: AI or something else. We still crave authenticity, and authenticity 707 00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:41,359 Speaker 1: will always trump that which someone didn't do. Even when 708 00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:44,439 Speaker 1: it came to sampling, we wanted to know where did 709 00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:48,640 Speaker 1: that sample come from? Oh that's Frank Sinatra. Are it's 710 00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:51,759 Speaker 1: a hard knock life? Right? We wanted to know, And 711 00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:56,640 Speaker 1: then the sample wasn't cheating. The sample was. I'm gonna 712 00:42:56,920 --> 00:43:02,080 Speaker 1: I'm going to bring another world, this white experience, into 713 00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:04,839 Speaker 1: our black experience, and show you how they're the same. 714 00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:09,000 Speaker 1: I'm gonna have Annie tell you it's a hard knock life. 715 00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:12,680 Speaker 1: And then I'm gonna pull Brooklyn in here right well 716 00:43:13,640 --> 00:43:17,640 Speaker 1: that that pollenization is so beautiful and we've been doing 717 00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:21,040 Speaker 1: it forever, so I'm again I'm not overly worried or 718 00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:24,400 Speaker 1: concerned about it. We love authenticity and artists are going 719 00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:26,680 Speaker 1: to have to be authentic in their own way, whether 720 00:43:26,719 --> 00:43:31,000 Speaker 1: you're using voice samples or whatever. And we know the 721 00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:33,920 Speaker 1: real deal and what we want because we get goosebumps when. 722 00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:38,120 Speaker 2: It happens, and you you can't deny it, like real, 723 00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:41,319 Speaker 2: recognize real. You know something when it's authentic and it's 724 00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:42,879 Speaker 2: grounded in that experience, you can. 725 00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:45,040 Speaker 1: Tell that's right one hundred percent. 726 00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:50,520 Speaker 2: In twenty twenty two, Stacey was able to repurchase movie Pass. 727 00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:53,680 Speaker 2: He still runs it today along with the Mogul, a 728 00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:56,720 Speaker 2: brand new platform that lets movie fans compete in fantasy 729 00:43:56,760 --> 00:44:01,240 Speaker 2: style tournaments based on their favorite entertainment. Relaunched movie Pass, 730 00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:04,920 Speaker 2: nearly one million people were waiting to sign up. I 731 00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:07,120 Speaker 2: asked Stacy that it felt like he was recapturing someone 732 00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:08,640 Speaker 2: the magic of the old days. 733 00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:13,359 Speaker 1: It was crazy. So in four days we had eight 734 00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:17,360 Speaker 1: hundred thousand people sign up for the wait list and 735 00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:22,279 Speaker 1: people join and it went, you know, instantly, it was 736 00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:26,319 Speaker 1: back and so we were very excited about that, and 737 00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:31,040 Speaker 1: you know, we were catching back up when we first 738 00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:33,840 Speaker 1: were born. We were the first to the party, and 739 00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:38,960 Speaker 1: then afterwards it's been Now that you have sixty percent 740 00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:41,560 Speaker 1: of theaters have some form of movie pass right, they 741 00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:45,080 Speaker 1: have a subscription of their own. So now with Mogul 742 00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:48,920 Speaker 1: and other things, we're even changing the space more. But 743 00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:53,680 Speaker 1: it was such a How often does a founder get 744 00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:56,560 Speaker 1: to go buy their baby back and relaunch it, you know, 745 00:44:56,640 --> 00:44:58,120 Speaker 1: it just rarely happens. 746 00:44:58,160 --> 00:44:58,360 Speaker 3: You know. 747 00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:02,839 Speaker 1: That's like Steve Job and Michael Bell, Michael Dell from 748 00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:05,560 Speaker 1: Dell Computers have gotten to go back and do that. 749 00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:09,040 Speaker 1: That is a very rare thing. So I know how 750 00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:11,560 Speaker 1: lucky we were to be able to do it. And 751 00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:15,080 Speaker 1: it just meant so much of the fans that were 752 00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:19,280 Speaker 1: so excited and we're posting like I want my movie 753 00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:22,719 Speaker 1: pass back and that they were there when we were 754 00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:24,640 Speaker 1: ready to bring it back. They were there. They were 755 00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:27,640 Speaker 1: like I'm down. They love the idea that you can 756 00:45:27,719 --> 00:45:30,160 Speaker 1: just go to any theater, to anywhere you want and 757 00:45:30,239 --> 00:45:32,839 Speaker 1: just boom, here's my movie past. Let's go, you know, 758 00:45:33,239 --> 00:45:36,520 Speaker 1: And that's what's really exciting, where all of the others 759 00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:40,239 Speaker 1: you can only go to just that theater, that theater chain, 760 00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:42,879 Speaker 1: but Movie Past you go wherever you want. So it's 761 00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:45,520 Speaker 1: still a beautiful thing. And we are continuing to grow 762 00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:51,719 Speaker 1: it and love being that epicenter for fans and fan fandom, 763 00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:55,360 Speaker 1: if you will, and being able to have that voice 764 00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:56,320 Speaker 1: for so many people. 765 00:45:57,560 --> 00:45:59,479 Speaker 2: Stacey, I could talk to you all day. 766 00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:00,000 Speaker 3: Thank you. 767 00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:02,480 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for gug like honestly, just the 768 00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:06,719 Speaker 2: fact that you have built such a great career and 769 00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:10,880 Speaker 2: presence out of like nerdy like black nerd shit, I 770 00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:15,160 Speaker 2: really like, Yeah, it really warms my heart. And you 771 00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:17,440 Speaker 2: have such a passion for filmmaking and a passion for 772 00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:20,040 Speaker 2: film It really is beautiful. So thank you for being here. 773 00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:21,000 Speaker 2: I really appreciate it. 774 00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:25,680 Speaker 1: Bridget, thank you so much. And I'm actually working on 775 00:46:25,719 --> 00:46:30,399 Speaker 1: a book called how to Watch Movies, and I there's 776 00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:32,400 Speaker 1: so many times I was talking to people and I 777 00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:37,120 Speaker 1: would say, like going see a kid's film, don't go 778 00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:39,120 Speaker 1: see it at night. Go see it early in the 779 00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:42,560 Speaker 1: afternoon when the theaters packed the kids, like you get 780 00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:46,000 Speaker 1: a different experience. Like telling people how to go see 781 00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:49,520 Speaker 1: movies can give you a different experience than just thinking, oh, 782 00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:51,239 Speaker 1: I'm gonna just go at eight o'clock at night or 783 00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:54,360 Speaker 1: six o'clock at night? Are where to go see a movie? 784 00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:56,600 Speaker 1: You go see a horror film, go see it uptown 785 00:46:57,560 --> 00:47:01,799 Speaker 1: that's what you finished, right right. It's like there's places 786 00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:05,360 Speaker 1: that you're gonna get a whole different experience if you 787 00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:09,880 Speaker 1: go do things in different ways and help educate people 788 00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:12,359 Speaker 1: on how to how to watch movies. It's a whole 789 00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:12,919 Speaker 1: different thing. 790 00:47:13,600 --> 00:47:15,719 Speaker 2: I cannot wait for this book when it comes back, 791 00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:17,680 Speaker 2: when it comes out, please come back to the show. 792 00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:19,480 Speaker 2: This is yes, you have no idea. You are like 793 00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:21,720 Speaker 2: very much speaking of my language. I have a whole 794 00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:23,840 Speaker 2: thing about how I go see a movie. Where I 795 00:47:23,840 --> 00:47:25,759 Speaker 2: go see a movie, who I see it with, who 796 00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:28,759 Speaker 2: I don't see it with. I have a whole philosophy. 797 00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:32,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's a bad experience if you pick the 798 00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:35,399 Speaker 1: wrong person to go. Oh my gosh, I'll go by 799 00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:38,760 Speaker 1: myself before I'll take the wrong persona same. 800 00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:40,759 Speaker 2: Oh look, I love movies for myself. That's like my 801 00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:41,760 Speaker 2: special place. 802 00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:46,239 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, exactly exactly, Bridgie, thank you so much. This 803 00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:47,880 Speaker 1: was so awesome and wonderful. 804 00:47:48,239 --> 00:47:56,080 Speaker 2: Oh the pleasure was all mine. Got a story about 805 00:47:56,120 --> 00:47:58,160 Speaker 2: an interesting thing in tech. I just want to say hi. 806 00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:00,960 Speaker 2: You can be just said hello at ten go. You 807 00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:04,040 Speaker 2: can also find transcripts for today's episode at tagoiti dot com. 808 00:48:04,200 --> 00:48:05,839 Speaker 2: There are no girls on the Internet. Was created by 809 00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:08,880 Speaker 2: me Bridget Todd. It's a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed 810 00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:12,520 Speaker 2: creative Jonathan Strickland as our executive producer. Tari Harrison is 811 00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:16,160 Speaker 2: our producer and sound engineer. Michael Amado is our contributing producer. 812 00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:19,120 Speaker 2: I'm your host, bridget Todd. If you want to help 813 00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:20,360 Speaker 2: us grow, rate and review. 814 00:48:20,280 --> 00:48:21,399 Speaker 3: Us on Apple Podcasts. 815 00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:24,879 Speaker 2: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, check out the iHeartRadio app, 816 00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:26,960 Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.