00:00:08 Speaker 1: Well, I invited you here. I thought I made myself perfectly clear. But you're a guess to my home. You gotta come to me empty, And I said, no, guess, your presence is presence enough. I already had too much stuff, So how did you dare. 00:00:36 Speaker 2: To surbey me. 00:00:47 Speaker 3: Quickly? I have to just continue to remind you about the upcoming live show at the Bellhouse in Brooklyn that's October thirteenth, and listen to this lineup Bowen Yang, Jeff Hillery Washington, a little musical surprise from Fenlily. These are four of my all time favorite guests. If you haven't listened to their episodes, you should go back and do that homework before the big event. But right now you should go to the bellhouseeny dot com for tickets, or you can get the live stream. And where do we get the live stream? I'm always forgetting. It's at veeps dot events slash. I said, no gifts, or you can look in the episode notes, or you can go to the Instagram wherever you need to go to find your path online towards enjoying the show. I expect everyone to be there, every single one of you. No excuses. Let's get into the show. Welcome to, I said, no gifts. I'm Bridgard Weineger. We're in the backyard. We're back in the backyard, not due to any pressuring or bullying by listeners, but just by circumstance. You know, the backyard will continue to be an option in the recording. So no one freak out or stop freaking out. 00:02:01 Speaker 2: Uh. 00:02:02 Speaker 3: The temperature is no longer one hundred and eight degrees, so it's tolerable. The temperature did drive the local fauna insane and they dug up some of the garden, which I had to take care of this morning. What else is happening? I've been watching Mormon the Secret Lives of Mormon Wives. As I've mentioned, I mean each episode is a week long, and you maybe we'll get more into that there. You know, there are a lot of characters. There's a like several Whitney's, several Mikayla's only one tailor. Is there anything else we need to talk about? No, I want to get into the podcast. I adore today's guest. It's Sam Taggard. Sam. Welcome to, I said, no gifts. 00:02:45 Speaker 2: Wow, thank you so much for having me. Of course, first off, the bat did you do you cave to listener critique often? 00:02:57 Speaker 3: Uh? Not often? Okay, if it's overwhelmed, yeah, I actually only if I agree. 00:03:03 Speaker 2: Oh I don't. 00:03:05 Speaker 3: I would never if there was an overwhelming that demand and I didn't agree, I wouldn't care. That's nice, you know, it's a. 00:03:14 Speaker 2: It's good. That means you have, you know, integrity. I feel like I cave instantly. 00:03:20 Speaker 3: I mean I do. I did on a recent episode say that I do cave to mob and I will crumple, of course, and in front of anything. So maybe we're just waiting for something bad to come along that they all demand. What would that be that was so horrible that I give up my morals for the faceless? 00:03:38 Speaker 2: Do it shirtless? 00:03:41 Speaker 3: What if I started doing this shirtless? 00:03:44 Speaker 2: May be like we love the Papa doing shirtless, it's gotta be topless, or we're never watching this again. I will. 00:03:51 Speaker 3: I will start doing this podcast topless. Or maybe I started another podcast idea episodes. 00:03:57 Speaker 2: You know, I've always wondered this. I'm wondering a lot. 00:04:00 Speaker 3: That's this is again this podcast. We stick to a topic for an hour. Okay, if you can't do that, I'll. 00:04:06 Speaker 2: Have you leave. Okay, I've always wondered when people feel the urge to create a second podcast, like, what does that interesting? What internally tells you you need another one? Because not to be I mean needless to say, I have one of the hardest lives around, and having one podcast I find to be so so complicated. 00:04:26 Speaker 3: It takes up way more time than you would expend. 00:04:28 Speaker 2: No one's talking about it, and yet we're still a punchline. 00:04:31 Speaker 3: We're absolutely a punchline. We're being worked into the ground, and everyone thinks we're just doing an hour of recording each week. No, it's every minute of every day. 00:04:40 Speaker 2: Every minute of every day. We have some of the hardest lives around. We have worked to the damn bone. 00:04:45 Speaker 3: I am essentially on the railroad. 00:04:48 Speaker 2: So when people start a second one, I'm like, but can't you just sort of start a new segment within your one. That's That's where I stand on the on the issue. 00:04:56 Speaker 3: I think it's the listener demand. These people. You know, people have two, three, four or five podcasts, and I think that they're just too many listeners. It's eventually you have to give more product. 00:05:07 Speaker 2: No, you're right, I think I do you have trouble perceiving success. I have. 00:05:15 Speaker 3: I have trouble attaining success, but. 00:05:18 Speaker 2: Even before attaining I can't even picture what it would look like. 00:05:21 Speaker 3: Oh I don't think you ever. I think it's like boiling, like the frog boiling, right, Like you get to success and you're like, well, this doesn't mean anything. I've been working so long. It doesn't like it's just your life. 00:05:32 Speaker 2: Then, because when people are like yeah, I just can't imagine, like you're a successful person, and by well everyone's successful in comparison to some other other person, there's no I you know, I'm not. I'm not starting to podcasts successful. I'm not. The fans are clamoring for a second podcast. 00:05:53 Speaker 3: Do you have any ideas for a second podcast? 00:05:55 Speaker 2: None? 00:05:56 Speaker 3: Take my topless idea. 00:05:59 Speaker 2: Well, to be fair, I would get ten percent of your top this idea because it. 00:06:01 Speaker 3: Was my idea kind of our co creator or at least you sparked the idea that I kind of fleshed out in a big way. 00:06:08 Speaker 2: Yeah, fleshed out right, Come. 00:06:10 Speaker 3: On, maybe that's the name of the podcast. Fleshed out. 00:06:13 Speaker 2: Oh, I mean it does. You know. The whole thing with it being a visual medium, it is like but but why and and so I think the Shirtless answers that question really quickly. 00:06:24 Speaker 3: What you're saying a podcast is a visual media. Well know that there's video element that people someone demanded. 00:06:30 Speaker 2: And it's it's the damn arms race that we're stuck in. 00:06:33 Speaker 3: No one knows who demanded the video podcast that you have to find out who Patient zero is there. 00:06:39 Speaker 2: Someone's lying. Here's what I think someone's lying along the way, and I don't know who it is because the numb I think the number, I think YouTube's lying. I think everybody's lying, and the Instagram lying. 00:06:49 Speaker 3: The numbers are always there's always a pivot to video that no one asks for, and. 00:06:54 Speaker 2: Then the success rate is like astronomical, right, and everyone's like, well, then you should do it too, you have to do it, And then I'm an, I do it not very astronomical. 00:07:02 Speaker 3: Absolutely, no one wants anything to do it. 00:07:05 Speaker 2: I've never seen I've never seen astronomical with something I've put on the internet. 00:07:10 Speaker 3: You have to start doing crowd work. 00:07:12 Speaker 2: Yeah, but even that's the thing is I have followed trends before, and if I were to follow the crowbork trend, I would be the first one to do crowd work and not be astronomical. 00:07:22 Speaker 3: Can you do crowd work on a podcast. That's the big question here. We only have one one person in the crowd on a lease, and on a lease, where are you from? 00:07:31 Speaker 4: Boulder, Colorado? 00:07:33 Speaker 2: Well, Boulder, Colorado, more like Mountain Colorado. 00:07:35 Speaker 3: See, now this is crowd work. And now that's a huge viral hit. 00:07:39 Speaker 2: This is a huge viral hit. 00:07:40 Speaker 3: People are sharing it. 00:07:41 Speaker 2: They're saying, that's so true. 00:07:44 Speaker 3: This applies to my life. A lot of people in Boulder who have heard of Boulder. 00:07:49 Speaker 2: I bet every person in Boulder will be sharing and saying, finally, someone said it. 00:07:54 Speaker 3: Someone who has heard of Boulder, been to Boulder, is familiar with the Boulder. Yeah, I mean it a place to almost every person in the United States, that's every English speaking person. Yes, so that's how you create a viral clip. 00:08:10 Speaker 2: Well, I think we should post yeah. 00:08:12 Speaker 3: And that's what and that's when we'll realize, Oh, it was a smart move to pivot to video. 00:08:17 Speaker 2: It's true. 00:08:18 Speaker 3: But I don't think the numbers are going to translate. 00:08:21 Speaker 2: No, they never do. 00:08:22 Speaker 3: They do not translate. 00:08:23 Speaker 2: You never do. I'm still waiting. You know, I do post podcast clips, and you know every day I say this at some point there's just supposed to take off, right, and every day they managed to not. And I say, you know what, maybe I'll be the first person to continually post and have them do very mediocre to bad And that's okay? 00:08:45 Speaker 3: Are you posting them to Instagram and TikTok? 00:08:47 Speaker 2: Yeahs to Instagram TikTok is like a scary place to post a video. Well, you're basically posting it there to get made fun of eventually. It might not be now, but it'll happen. 00:08:58 Speaker 3: You're posting it there for something to go wrong, hoping something kind of goes wrong. 00:09:02 Speaker 2: This how okay? How do you feel about. 00:09:05 Speaker 3: Things going wrong in life? 00:09:07 Speaker 2: Like, I'm obsessed currently with the idea I've been very I'll say it, I'm a well liked person in my community and if that's a crime, and lock me up and throw away the key. But I've been recently like all these people that are wildly successful are actually not always well liked by everyone in their community. And in fact, if you can go viral bad, that's as good as going viral good, right, And. 00:09:34 Speaker 3: I mean, I'm currently thinking about somebody kind of within our shared community who's gone very viral for a few years who I just despise as a person. 00:09:43 Speaker 2: Well, of course, and I would love to know who? 00:09:47 Speaker 3: Can you say podcast? But what if you like him? And then the moon? 00:09:52 Speaker 2: But that would be good actually, because that would make this a viral moment? 00:09:56 Speaker 3: Should I say it? And then we'll either be for edited. 00:09:59 Speaker 2: Yeah, oh of course, of course there's no okay, that's there's some people where you're like you obviously. 00:10:10 Speaker 3: Well, for a long time I felt very alone in thinking this really. 00:10:14 Speaker 2: Yeah, well was it because of the pandemic. 00:10:17 Speaker 3: Because of the pandemic. That's when it all happened, right, And then I started seeing people in person and it started sharing. We started sharing this with each other, and it felt like I've got a new community. This is my found family. 00:10:31 Speaker 2: Yeah, no, that whole thing that I mean. But that actually did shift my perspective at least where I was like, oh, I guess if you're fucking losing your mind on Instagram, it will actually lead to many television deals and and like somehow a global fan base. I've never I was really like, oh, I guess I need to like not think about what I'm doing at all. I think that's the lesson, And I keep trying to learn it, but I can't learn it. 00:11:03 Speaker 3: It's a prison. Yes, you'll probably never escape it. This is how I feel where I'm like some people, it just flows out of them. They just you crash enough cars, people are gonna start looking. But I can't crash single car. 00:11:15 Speaker 2: I can't crush a car because I'm like, well, it's gonna cost. 00:11:17 Speaker 3: A lot, it's gonna cost a lot of money, and the insurance will go up and people are gonna stop trusting me. Yes, people know me as someone who doesn't crash cars. 00:11:25 Speaker 2: This is the problem with being well liked in your community. 00:11:28 Speaker 3: And I'm not wow, but yeah, I'm trying to think of people. I mean, there are people who are well liked in communities who go viral. I mean I can think of some, but it's a rare breed, a rare breed, and you have to really be an exceptional person. 00:11:50 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, right. 00:11:54 Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel like we've really reached an end point with talking about going viral. 00:12:01 Speaker 2: Well, I even mean, I even and I obviously don't every opinion I have. I also don't have first and foremost, but I even mean, like what, like what's wrong? Like, for example, I'm now mid thirties, right, and like, what like crazy thing has happened to me that I'm like writing a book about. It's like, actually nothing, because I've been really like responsible the whole way. 00:12:24 Speaker 3: I was thinking about this last night. I was thinking, I don't have crazy stories because I make smart decisions. 00:12:30 Speaker 2: I like, yes, I'll go out, but I'll be like, Okay, that's enough, And it's like, well, there should still be space for me. There should be. 00:12:38 Speaker 3: Space for someone who's just lived a very ordinary life, who's taken all of the correct measures and is well liked. 00:12:47 Speaker 2: That's a hard thing to do. It's harder than getting addicted to drugs. 00:12:54 Speaker 3: It is, it's much harder. My problem is is I'm like, well, maybe I start making wilder choices. But the problem is is I'm gonna overcorrect and I'm gonna make the worst choices, and probably the first one will lead to my death. Of course, but then someone's writing a book about me and again getting a book deal before I do. 00:13:11 Speaker 2: Of course, that is true. I really well also, like now everyone, because we've set up this reputation for ourselves, it's sort of the we are all just moving forward in it no matter what, even if like we will only disappoint what people think we are rather than be like this new cool thing, be like, oh, he's just I liked him because he was responsible. 00:13:33 Speaker 3: All right, that's not the person that I started liking. Yeah, that's a person for other people. 00:13:38 Speaker 2: Yeah, we need to move to London and then get to the drugs. 00:13:42 Speaker 3: Go back to college, a new college. Nobody knows your. 00:13:46 Speaker 2: Name, nobody knows. That'll be perfect because and luckily they won't know because none the clips have gone viral. 00:13:52 Speaker 3: Exactly, we are absolutely unknown to everyone. It's a real I think at our time we might just have to die. No, I'm afraid we might have to die, Like, what do you mean? And then people will be sharing about us online. They'll say, remember Sam, he was so great, we all loved him, wish we could have him back, wish we had shared more of his content. 00:14:18 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, that's maybe why people get married. It's like so that you can everyone can, you can get that post moment, right exactly. That's why you either like sell a TV show or get or get married. 00:14:32 Speaker 3: And then but after those two things, what are you doing? Then you have to start doing hard drugs because there you're still chasing this high and then is it like, well, now heroin or or baby a baby? But then again then heroin? Why so many parents do heroin? It's really a tough game, right, It's a life. 00:14:54 Speaker 2: Needing and needing to keep eyes on you at. 00:14:56 Speaker 3: All, being absolutely obsessed with the tension. And that's what makes our lives. That's what we're working so hard for. And people don't realize that we're sweating. 00:15:07 Speaker 2: Of course, work to the bone. It's harder than you think. We have some of the hardest sizes around. I'll die on that hill. 00:15:19 Speaker 3: This is kind of slightly related, but I am watching The More Secret Lives of Mormon. Have you seen any of the show? 00:15:26 Speaker 2: I have seen clips on Twitter. 00:15:28 Speaker 3: Simply the most boring television show. 00:15:30 Speaker 2: Oh why are people talking about it like it's not They're lying? I hate when people do this. 00:15:35 Speaker 3: There is I mean, I'm going to watch every single episode, of course, but it nothing. Nothing is happening in the show. These are six of the most boring people they could have possibly ever found. But it is fun to watch because they're constantly saying mom talk, and. 00:15:52 Speaker 2: That's why people are talking about been talking about mom talk. 00:15:55 Speaker 3: Mom? Do you know what mom talk is like? Mom TikTok, which I guess these created or claim to have created or brought to the forefront. Sure, and they're constantly talking about how will mom talk survive? Is this good for mom talk? But nowhere in the show is is it ever? Like it's such a nebulous like if you weren't familiar with them or the word mom talk and just we're watching this show, random episode, you'd have absolutely no idea what they were talking about. It's not like a football team where you see them playing football or whatever. They're never doing anything. 00:16:27 Speaker 2: Are they influencers? I guess Okay. 00:16:31 Speaker 3: I mean they can't all there's no way all six of them are great influencers. You know one of them is getting low numbers. 00:16:38 Speaker 2: Well, I would I would assume it would show in the power dynamics of the friend group. 00:16:42 Speaker 3: That's probably true. There's Taylor and Whitney and they're kind of the lead goals and then I can't even remember the rest of their Mikayla and some other Sure, sure, but you know they're just kind of wandering around drinking soda and the drama is bare there. The fact that people are talking about the show like it's exciting on the Internet is again, the Internet cannot be trusted. 00:17:07 Speaker 2: You really can't be trusted. I mean, that's how we got your enemy that you mentioned before. 00:17:11 Speaker 3: Yeah, of course, yeah, of course. The Internet brings these people right to the top and they're all screaming about it. And to make sure you're a home alone feeling absolutely out of your mind. 00:17:21 Speaker 2: Uh huh uh huh. 00:17:22 Speaker 3: I've been left behind by the human race. 00:17:24 Speaker 2: It does feel that way. I generally have sort of like, wait two years with most especially reality shows. Oh sure, sure, because the Internet loves to talk about everything, literally anything with like the grandest terms, and for some reason, reality especially right, And so I'm sort of like I'm gonna like I fell for Tiger King, okay, right, And I said enough, like and like love is blind, Like people act like it's the fucking super Bowl every season, I know, And I'm like, I watched season one. I get it. That's enough. 00:17:58 Speaker 3: I don't need to twenty minutes. I got it. 00:18:00 Speaker 2: It's not fun. 00:18:02 Speaker 3: It's not fun. It's not dynamic. No, it's very like, it's very just static and weird. 00:18:09 Speaker 2: And it's like, I guess, notable because it's different than the reality shows. Akay, bad, but I don't get why. I'm just I'm not trying to be pretentious. No, but I have only one life. 00:18:26 Speaker 3: Because pretentious as you want, and. 00:18:27 Speaker 2: There's so much stuff that I should be consuming, sometimes. 00:18:31 Speaker 3: Of good stuff. You're right, And I guess you get a pass for Tiger King because it was early pandemic. 00:18:38 Speaker 2: We're looking for community, and it was more. 00:18:41 Speaker 3: Of a documentary. 00:18:42 Speaker 2: That's true. 00:18:43 Speaker 3: It wasn't quite reality show, right, I mean it had the level of trash of a reality show, yeah, but was more edited and filmed like a documentary. 00:18:53 Speaker 2: There does need to be another name for it, because there are these documentaries that are like clearly meant to be true, like trash right, right, but they have the sheen of a documentary. So you're like, well, it's not bad for me. 00:19:06 Speaker 3: It's a I mean, it's not a docuseries because that again, can just be a regular documentary. 00:19:10 Speaker 2: Yeah, that sounds tasteful. 00:19:12 Speaker 3: A reality docuseries, a reality a mental health check in. Have you ever heard someone use the word streamium? No, like premium streaming, so like, can you imagine I can't believe I even recorded my voices said recorded, just like prestige. I think it means like prestigious streaming content. Okay, And I've heard people say that before, and it's just you get to places in life you find yourself in rooms with people saying things like that, and you do wonder should I turn back? 00:19:51 Speaker 2: Yeah? 00:19:52 Speaker 3: But and now I've said it, and I'm helping spread this word. 00:19:58 Speaker 2: You know. You know, we all have to be talking at all times, and it does make things complicated because because we're talking constantly, and everyone's talking constantly, we have to come up with new things to talk about. So new things have to come up, so sometimes you have to invent them. Right. 00:20:16 Speaker 3: The vocabulary has to continue expanding, and sometimes it's empty. 00:20:19 Speaker 2: Sometimes it's just created to have something new to. 00:20:22 Speaker 3: Talk about, right, and look at it's done for us. Right here, they're having this rich conversation about streamium programming. 00:20:28 Speaker 2: So what counts of streamium? 00:20:30 Speaker 3: That's the good? That's a good question, because most streaming stuff is the same price. You know, it's all like what it's between ten and twenty dollars. 00:20:39 Speaker 2: At this point. 00:20:40 Speaker 3: Sure, So what what of that is premium? We all, I mean, especially the same. They're all the same. They're almost all bad, that's true. There's none of them stand out does a single one of these things that you pay for stand out? Is like, oh, that one's really it's they have integrity. 00:20:57 Speaker 2: No, well, I'm like Hulu, I don't know, that's the only. 00:21:02 Speaker 3: One, like a shell company. 00:21:06 Speaker 2: That's true, but it wasn't. The problem is like all are shells. They all were good at one point. It's just yeah, it's a race to the bottom. 00:21:16 Speaker 3: And Hulu is showing the secret lives of Mormon. 00:21:20 Speaker 2: Is that where it is? Yeah, never mind, I'm pretty ignorant. I'm pretty ignorant about what is on specific streaming sites. 00:21:30 Speaker 3: Purposefully or you're just by nature, don't care. 00:21:35 Speaker 2: I think it just it just takes a lot to learn, right, you know, there's so much in there, And I'm like, I'm a person that like can't really plan ahead, like I won't know what like if I'll enjoy it, Like before an event and someone's like, is it gonna be fun, I'll be like, I don't know. I have no opinion on whether this will be fun or not. 00:21:55 Speaker 3: That's an unfair question. 00:21:57 Speaker 2: But sometimes some people will be like it won't be because of this, or it will be because of this, And I'm sort of like I'm going and I don't know how I feel at all until the moment I walk in the doors. Right. 00:22:07 Speaker 3: How often is there an event you're going to that you're certain is going to be unfund other than church? Never, Like I guess if you're going to a party of a horrible person, but the thing is. 00:22:20 Speaker 2: Of course maybe even more fun. 00:22:22 Speaker 3: You don't worry about it, of course, no pressure at all. 00:22:25 Speaker 2: Maybe if I'm like extra tired, then I'll be like, I'll be fun because I'm extra tired. 00:22:29 Speaker 3: Okay, And that feels like a separate thing. That does feel like that feels like your issue, not the event's issue. 00:22:36 Speaker 2: That's true, so it's true. Will listen, that'd be fun for you. No, because I'm extra tired. 00:22:47 Speaker 3: How did we get here? 00:22:49 Speaker 2: Oh? Because streaming services, I feel like, are the party of Like I don't know what's on anything until I open it, right, and then I'm like, oh, this is what's on here. 00:22:58 Speaker 3: It is interesting how quickly the rest of us, and I'm sorry to exclude you, please, how quickly we're able to learn and know that information about different streaming services and where each piece of content. It's very odd because there's nothing else in my life that I'm able to just immediately put that information in my head. 00:23:16 Speaker 2: I don't even Yeah, I have to write everything down. I'm not a person who remembers. I hate when video games don't have like a clear, like list of. 00:23:28 Speaker 3: Things I need that. If I take two days off a video game, I'm lost. 00:23:32 Speaker 2: And that's so crazy. 00:23:35 Speaker 3: It's too much. I can't handle this. 00:23:37 Speaker 2: Give I'll give up. 00:23:38 Speaker 3: I'll say, well, I put in a lot of work and now it's not helping me anymore. 00:23:41 Speaker 2: Because even if I'm like, okay, tutorial where like I'll have to like look in the right, but you did all this wrong, and I'm like, well, I don't know where I am. I don't even know which direction I'm walking. I don't know if I was walking in the right, like forward or backward. 00:23:55 Speaker 3: You're describing real brain deterioration. Something's actually going on. 00:24:04 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true. That's true. 00:24:06 Speaker 3: Podcasting podcasts, and have you have you heard of this video game Astrobot? No, I've been playing this thing for like six days straight. 00:24:16 Speaker 2: What is it? 00:24:17 Speaker 3: You're just a little robot flying through space. It's the most joyful thing that I've done in I mean, it's solving all my problems. Really, absolutely wonderful and it's the sort of thing that you you don't need a list of a checklist, you know, do you fight? You like, knock little creatures out of your way. You're flying around. It's beautiful. I mean, I just can't get enough of it. It's really taken. But like I've just been on my couch for a week. Wow, Mormon wives that I hate to say it. Chimp Crazy? What's this now? 00:24:49 Speaker 2: See? 00:24:49 Speaker 3: This is really interesting. Chim Crazy is the new docuseriies from the creator of Tiger King. Is it good? It's again, it's really hard to say. I mean it does. It is interesting? Okay, it's extremely bleak. 00:25:05 Speaker 2: Wait, someone was telling me about this. It covers the lady whose face got ripped off. 00:25:10 Speaker 3: She's part of it. I mean you see some footage and hear some footage which is unbelievably horrifying. 00:25:16 Speaker 2: Wow. 00:25:17 Speaker 3: I mean you're hearing the nine to one one call all. But it's about mostly about this other woman who owns chimps and various things, and you follow her and it's it's not Tiger King was like kind of trashy fun. This is like you feel bad almost the entire time because to see a chimp with like a Lee shan Is there's something really dark about us. 00:25:40 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's less ideal. 00:25:41 Speaker 3: I mean there are some moments with this woman where you know she's getting her lips plumped or whatever, and it's like, oh yeah, I love of course, we love to watch a trashy person do make themselves look crazy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, But then we get back to someone's face getting ripped off, and I mean the swings are pretty violent. I would say, oh. 00:25:57 Speaker 2: God, wait, I'm realizing I got to sort of hop in and maybe I'm wrong on this. Were you former Mormon? 00:26:06 Speaker 3: I am? Yeah? 00:26:07 Speaker 2: So does it hit different? 00:26:09 Speaker 3: What Jim Crazy? 00:26:12 Speaker 2: Now? What's the other show? Sex sizes of wives? 00:26:21 Speaker 3: Jim Crazy has been a very different experience for me personally based on my religious upbringing. No, it has. It has hit differently, I think because have you ever seen Salt Lake City Housewives? No love that show. I adore that show. That's the first real one of these things I've ever gotten into. But it's not like a real look at Mormon or Utah culture. This thing that i've the Housewives, No, they I mean my Mormon WI that thing is a real like it feels truly like a document of Utah culture, you know, way or like the bad parts of Utah culture, where everyone's drinking a soda that's like this big and it's all full of coffee creamer. And these women are like between twenty and thirty. I don't even know how to describe them. I mean, they're very immature. I mean because most of them got married when they were like nineteen, right, right, and so they just haven't read. But now they're like trying to break out of it. And it's like watching somebody like a thirteen year old like, yeah, get the keys to the car. 00:27:19 Speaker 2: So it's tough. 00:27:20 Speaker 3: It's very tough. 00:27:24 Speaker 2: I wonder if maybe it feels boring to you because you're like, well, yeah, none of this is shocking to me. 00:27:28 Speaker 3: Interesting, great, great question. Yeah that might be true, but that's also part of the appeal for me. Sure, but other people must be like, what is happening? 00:27:39 Speaker 2: Yeah, this is wild. 00:27:40 Speaker 3: Every one of these people lives like in a beige void. Every one of their homes is just unbelievably colorless. Yeah, and it's that and then they're drinking soda. That's essentially the show. 00:27:53 Speaker 2: Wow. 00:27:54 Speaker 3: So I mean, I don't know if I'm selling this to you or not? 00:27:57 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, unfortunately, I am addicted to being a part of a conversation, right, so I may if people keep talking about it, I will have to watch to be able to be part of the conversation. 00:28:12 Speaker 3: Well, this is the thing. It's only eight episodes, so if you can stick it out for another like week or two, you won't have to be part of any conversation. 00:28:18 Speaker 2: That's the hope. 00:28:19 Speaker 3: And then you wait if it gets picked up for a second season, then you start considering, do I prepare myself to be part of the real conversation. But there's a chance it just gets washed away into the Hulu world and you never have to think about it again. 00:28:33 Speaker 2: That could be cool, that could be awesome. I mostly watch. I'm realizing I'm trying to gauge what I watch. I watch a couple of Therapy. 00:28:40 Speaker 3: Do you watch all Therapy? Unbelievable show, so incredible. I mean I've watched all of it. 00:28:46 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm in season four right now. 00:28:48 Speaker 3: It's such a beautiful I mean, it just is such a comforting, fascinating show. 00:28:54 Speaker 2: Yeah. We watched like. 00:28:56 Speaker 3: All four seasons and maybe a week and a half could not stop watching. Yeah, and the episodes are what twenty five minutes or something, which, again think everything. Have you had a favorite couple? 00:29:07 Speaker 2: Not a favorite necessarily, but like I was in talking about the hearing on the Mormon stuff again, there was the Mormon couple. The former Mormon couples were rough, and I was like, this is so sad because they're like try, like she's so traumatized, and they got married when they were seventeen nineteen, and it's. 00:29:26 Speaker 3: Like neither of them really knows how to live a life or they don't know how to handle these issues in a larger sense. 00:29:33 Speaker 2: Like I did everything sort of out of order, where it's like, yeah, now you want to be twenty right, you're like thirty forty or something, and. 00:29:41 Speaker 3: It's like, yes, those two And I think on top of that, I think they're both annoying well needless to say, which really adds to their problem. 00:29:50 Speaker 2: That really does add to the problem. I actually it's so funny to watch that show and obviously be like which one of you do I hate? And I always like to go back and forth. I'm like, wow, life is so complex. 00:30:05 Speaker 3: Life is extremely complex. I mean, most of the time I can zero in on which person in the couple I know is the problem, but there are some that are more wishy washy. The most clear one I think he's in season one. Do you remember this guy who was just horrible that's the only character. Yes, yeah, that's the only way I can describe you. Oh, he loved birthday parties or something. 00:30:28 Speaker 2: It was like they had they had trauma around, like like whenever it was his birthday. She was like, let's do a weird sex thing because I know how horny you always are, and he was like, well, now that you asked me what we were texting, I don't want to do it anymore. 00:30:42 Speaker 3: It was just a trap of a person. Yeah, and the way he spoke was annoying. Oh, it pissed me off immediately. You're not on board with him from the first second he starts talking. Yeah, just like this person is so terrible. 00:30:54 Speaker 2: I think the worst guy though, was I think it was like the I think it was the three who was like truly just like, well, we're here to talk about her anger and like she was like yeah, like it. She was sort of like, yeah, it's totally my fault. And she was like, oh, so what are you so angry about? And she was like, oh, well, he's always cheating on me. 00:31:15 Speaker 3: I don't remember this couple at all what. 00:31:18 Speaker 2: It was, so she like almost she was like, I don't think I can be At some point she was like I cannot be your therapist. And they were like, we'll try to be better, and he did sort of try to be better, but it was like so they had to go to such a roundabout way to get him to actually speak. 00:31:32 Speaker 3: And did it actually work out in the. 00:31:35 Speaker 2: End, it did help them. I don't know where it like, where it is? 00:31:39 Speaker 3: How do I not remember them? 00:31:41 Speaker 2: It was it was very tense, like I would have to like pace around and like I was like, I cannot watch another episode of this man. 00:31:47 Speaker 3: But then you get to Orna. Anytime the camera turns back to Orna, you know you're in a safe spot for me. Yeah, she's I mean the way she speaks, the way she gestures, and when she gets mad at somebody or when she's annoyed, it feels so good. I mean, what a show, What a damn show. 00:32:02 Speaker 2: And I really talk about not understanding what is entertainment. I was like when hearing about that show, I was like, I don't see how this is fun. To watch. Oh, of course that's how I was people sitting in chairs and just chatting like visual podcasts. 00:32:19 Speaker 3: Why is not as big as that? I should be orna. Your other podcast should be talking about me. 00:32:26 Speaker 2: You're the partner of the inside about the Mormon thing because you were Mormon and someone was boring make me or wow? 00:32:36 Speaker 3: Well, I actually think we have to talk about something else. Oh, look, I was looking forward to having you here. 00:32:43 Speaker 2: He was. 00:32:44 Speaker 3: I thought, Sam's wonderful. How could we not have a good time. He'll leave and everything will be fine. Yeah, the podcast is called I said no gifts. 00:32:53 Speaker 2: Right. 00:32:54 Speaker 3: As we've discussed at length, we both are familiar with how difficult it is to podcast, how it is number one most stressful job in the world. Yes, so I was a little It felt unfair when I walked into the backyard and saw that you had brought what is clearly a gift for me. 00:33:14 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's true. You know, I was just feeling like I want to be bad. You know, I'm trying to start a new met. 00:33:20 Speaker 3: Oh interesting your first step. 00:33:22 Speaker 2: Yes, so I was trying to make a splash. I thought maybe i'd be the first guest to bring a gift. 00:33:26 Speaker 3: You thought, this is the book deal? 00:33:28 Speaker 2: Yeah? Literally, I was like, our entire community is going to shake in their boots when they hear about what I did on the podcast. 00:33:37 Speaker 3: Well, okay, that's an excellent, excellent reasoning. Yeah, should I open it here on. 00:33:42 Speaker 2: The podcast please? I would be so honored. 00:33:47 Speaker 3: Okay, it's in this gorgeous bag that's kind of got some holiday flowers on it. Yeah, oh, I've dropped it. 00:33:54 Speaker 2: It's not fragile. I hope you don't already have one. I hope you don't already have one. 00:34:00 Speaker 3: It's Chromatica on CD. 00:34:02 Speaker 2: Yeah, do you already have one? 00:34:08 Speaker 3: I thought four? Do you actually three of them are sealed? 00:34:11 Speaker 2: Do you know? Because can I tell you please? I have three? You have three and two of them are sealed. 00:34:19 Speaker 3: But no, that can't be true. 00:34:20 Speaker 2: That's true. 00:34:21 Speaker 3: Wait what I explained? Explain? 00:34:24 Speaker 2: Well? I was, you know, we all lost our minds in different ways in the pandemic. Yes, one of my ways was being so obsessed with Gaga and Chromatica and buying merch, like anytime I felt bad and so, and with some of the merch came a CD. Interesting, So then I have like three CDs? 00:34:50 Speaker 3: Do you have a CD player. 00:34:52 Speaker 2: Well in my car okay, right right, yeah, I have a vintage car just in the eleven. 00:34:58 Speaker 3: So how much merch did you buy? 00:35:00 Speaker 2: Well? I have one, two, three, four T shirts. 00:35:06 Speaker 3: Okay, five T shirts incredible? Yeah yeah yeah, any totes, water bottles, key chains. 00:35:13 Speaker 2: No, I was pretty focused on a vinyl. 00:35:16 Speaker 3: Of course, the vinyl, right yeah, interesting album to have on vinyl. 00:35:19 Speaker 2: Well, I think you're you know, you're coming from a logical place. 00:35:25 Speaker 3: I actually, I really feel like I'm making a very good point. 00:35:28 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, but you're not coming from an emotional place. 00:35:31 Speaker 3: Traumatica should only be a digital product, I think. 00:35:35 Speaker 2: Well, I think she would disagree. It's sold on the online store as a vinyl. 00:35:40 Speaker 3: Maybe it wasn't her choice. I assume it wasn't her choice. Kind of got out of her hands, you know. 00:35:45 Speaker 2: I think she's a true artists and everything that she puts out is her choice. I think there's a lot of thought but in every single piece, but like a. 00:35:54 Speaker 3: Big club dance album on vinyl, at Home feels like one of the most insane things you could have. Yeah, but have you played the vinyl? 00:36:07 Speaker 2: Maybe like once? 00:36:08 Speaker 3: Because am I am? 00:36:09 Speaker 2: I wrong? 00:36:10 Speaker 3: It feels like you want to have quick you're of course. 00:36:12 Speaker 2: Right, But I honestly do listen to this album start to finish plenty of times, even today, And so it's not crazy. It just takes the right uh that sort of let's say, like you come home from a party and you're like, you know what'd be crazy if we put on the chromatic of vinyl. 00:36:33 Speaker 3: To me, it feels like preheating the oven to eat a candy bar, if that makes any sense at all. Like it's just. 00:36:40 Speaker 2: This, this is coming from someone that doesn't cook, you know what I mean, Like, like you're you're forgetting that there's so much beauty in the in sort of this the small things in right, and and finding the chromatic of vinyl and and blowing the dust off, carefully placing it and taking the needle and dropping it. 00:37:02 Speaker 3: Down right, the love the labor, you know, it's just and. 00:37:05 Speaker 2: Then it goes my name and you're like ah, and then you're like, and now I put the vinyl on. So now I'm gonna sit here. 00:37:14 Speaker 3: For forty forty three minutes. 00:37:16 Speaker 2: That's not that long, very tasteful. 00:37:18 Speaker 3: Yeah, So these albums are getting too long. 00:37:21 Speaker 2: Don't even get me started. 00:37:24 Speaker 3: They're all trying to game the system. 00:37:26 Speaker 2: They're literally trying to post reels. But for music, oh interesting, and it's like, stop it. Stop trying to game, stop trying to fix the numbers. Just put out something that people like, Yes, have some integrity, have an ounce, believe in yourself a little bit. Also, do you need to be the biggest of all time and just put on a smaller album and be beloved forever? 00:37:46 Speaker 3: Right, be known as this person who had some restraint something. 00:37:51 Speaker 2: Time will look back fondly. 00:37:52 Speaker 3: On you, right, I mean, I guess everyone's just so desperate. Everyone's clawing, clawing, clawing, It's true, But I mean, just hold it together. A pop album should not be more than forty three minutes. No, forty three is even kind of pushing, that's true. I feel like thirty five to thirty nine minutes is right where you want it. Like, let's say ten songs, twelve songs, three minutes each. 00:38:18 Speaker 2: Six sketches. 00:38:24 Speaker 3: In a row. 00:38:28 Speaker 2: I have to ask, how do you feel about Lady Gaga? 00:38:31 Speaker 3: Lady Gaga? I that's an interesting question. 00:38:33 Speaker 2: I love being LGBTQ plus talking about Lady Gaga on a podcast. 00:38:37 Speaker 3: I want to be careful about how I want I speak about Lady Gaga because I feel like I have complicated feelings. I don't dislike I don't. She's not in my top even ten. Wow, real, you know, and when we're talking about pop like club or you know, banger okay, territory not in the top ten Okay. Something I have pre she ate about her is there's this pretentious element that she's obviously shooting for that she and what I love is she doesn't have exactly what it takes and watching that mess is I appreciate that. Yeah, does that make sense? 00:39:18 Speaker 2: Absolutely make sense? 00:39:19 Speaker 3: And she's got a lot of great songs. 00:39:20 Speaker 2: I think I feel very similarly. 00:39:22 Speaker 3: She's like, yeah, yeah, I don't even know what I would compare that to as a like a normal person operating in the world. It's like a I was gonna say, a failing restaurant, but that's not what it is. 00:39:37 Speaker 2: She's a failing restaurant. That is so funny. It's almost like it's like like when a movie is bad, but it's like, but it's fun to watch. Like thinking of one of my favorite films is A Valerian. Did you see this movie? Oh? 00:39:56 Speaker 3: What a I didn't see it, but I know. I mean that, what a great analogy that is. 00:40:00 Speaker 2: It's such an insane movie. It is not good, but there's actually a lot of good ideas in it. And sometimes it's so bad that they create these moments so that you could never get on a normal. 00:40:11 Speaker 3: Movie, right because another movie would have the control to be like, let's not even try. Yeah, yeah, well, I feel like there's a real theme of this episode. 00:40:22 Speaker 2: It's choices, choices, It's it's control versus letting go. It's it's. 00:40:32 Speaker 3: Interesting and no, yeah, I like her. I let's say, I'm trying to think of songs of her. You know what song I really like of hers, which I, as someone who's not a huge Lady Gaga listener, I think is a surprising choice. I like the song it is? It called Summer Boy? Do you even know this? 00:40:49 Speaker 2: I don't know this one? Do you know this? 00:40:50 Speaker 3: On a lease? 00:40:51 Speaker 2: If I'm the only person in this room, then this backyard half of the Fame? 00:40:56 Speaker 3: I guess what's it called. It's off of the album The Fame. 00:40:58 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's called summer Boy. 00:40:59 Speaker 2: All one word? 00:41:01 Speaker 3: Wow? Who put this in my who put this in my life? It's great, fantastic song. But that's that's probably my top one of my top five Lady. 00:41:13 Speaker 2: Gagas that's so interesting. 00:41:14 Speaker 3: It's really like kind of an out of character song for her. Almost feels like early Gwen Stefani pop. 00:41:21 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, she kind of sounds out in the beginning, right yeah, where she learned how to howl, where she got all spooky haunted house. 00:41:31 Speaker 3: Do you remember when you first encountered Lady Gaga. 00:41:34 Speaker 2: Of course it was I was in college, and I think it was like just dance on the radio or something. Just dance in Paparazzi were on the radio around the same time period. It was winter, it was Chicago. I was home visiting my parents, and I said, I don't think I'm like this fucking girl. She's always saying like how weird she is, And I'm like, this song sounds normal as hell, Like why is she always saying she's weird just because she dresses weird? So little did I know that one day I'd be so deeply obsessed. For me, it was okay, it was a few things, one bad romance. Like everyone, I was like, oh my god. 00:42:14 Speaker 3: That song is I would say, kind of a perfect songs. 00:42:18 Speaker 2: It's incredible and it really made me be like, like, do you have those moments where you're like, like, I was like, I'm so grateful that I'm in college while this song is out, Like I'm like, this is a moment that like only these people will have, Like I will be at a stupid house party hearing this song and that's heaven on earth. 00:42:39 Speaker 3: In the moment you had this realization. 00:42:41 Speaker 2: Oh, I've been zoomed out for a while. 00:42:43 Speaker 3: That's really incredible. 00:42:44 Speaker 2: I was really very aware of the temporariness of my time in college. 00:42:51 Speaker 3: You're the fleeting nature of yes learning, Lady Gaga. 00:42:54 Speaker 2: I was addicted to being like this will only happen now, wow and wow. And then I was also in like indie rock circles in college. Okay, right, and I my like coolest, like grungiest friend was like, actually, these songs are fucking sick, and we'd like be at college parties and be like watch this, and he'd like put for the songs in a row and everyone like who did this? And he'd be like and I'd be like, wow, these are sick. 00:43:24 Speaker 3: Bold choice. Yeah, yeah, I guess at the time, because I mean, music has become such a mush and it's like hard to tell what feels different anymore. At the time, that probably did feel different from other pop music. 00:43:38 Speaker 2: Yeah, because we were dealing with like, you know, normal girl jeans and T shirts. Right, Like it was even even almost credit if it like looked like you could play guitar. Sometimes I feel. 00:43:50 Speaker 3: Right, and I'm trying to think of like who else in that moment was like a Newish pop star. I mean like we were at the tail end of Britney Spears obviously, like that's. 00:44:00 Speaker 2: Like single Ladies was happening, like, right, hasn't been established. 00:44:03 Speaker 3: Yet as like the Yeah, she was still able to, you know, make moves that didn't feel completely calculated. Yeah, not to say that she's calculating is bad. I'm just saying, yes, they're not like, uh, they feel to me like more artistic in a way that doesn't just feel like a machine made them. Sure sure, sure that makes sense. Yeah yeah, yeah, but I guess Lady Gaga cracked it open again for like fifty songwriters with me. That doesn't matter, everyone's aware of it. Yeah, And then we then we start getting you know, Kylie Ray Jibson, Charlie xc X. Now there's a person who I think i'd love to know her opinion on Lady Gaga. 00:44:46 Speaker 2: I feel like she's like she's fucking crazy, She's like fucking can't stand her. But I love those tracks. 00:44:58 Speaker 3: I'm always so curious about the like the inner world of musicians. 00:45:02 Speaker 2: Yeah, I've met one pop person once. 00:45:06 Speaker 3: Okay, can you name them? 00:45:07 Speaker 2: I guess I want Like Kim Petris was like los of Spookies. Oh so we were like in Chile at the same time shooting and it was like, you know, there's no one there, so and there's like six of us that are like shooting this thing. And I was there for like a few days, but we would like get dinner and stuff. Wow, fascinating, And it was like, you know, the way that it's like they all do know each other. They all have hung out, they've all like talked about collaborating, and it's sort of like weird. 00:45:37 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like I mean, I mean, I think I'm curious about it because the same thing obviously happens within comedy. 00:45:44 Speaker 2: But comedy they wear it on their sleeves a little more because it's like, yeah, I did their podcast. It's like, of course they know each other. You can see the connections a little. 00:45:52 Speaker 3: Bit pop stars do feel like they keep their distance from each other. Yeah, that's why I think this is like Charlie XCX thing with all these collabors has been so interesting to watch. 00:46:02 Speaker 2: It is interesting. I mean that's where the Lord the Lord Charlie thing kind of freaked me out because I was like, wait, you guys have like affected each. 00:46:11 Speaker 3: Other, right, you are aware of each other and like socially right. 00:46:16 Speaker 2: So like, I'm sure you're gonna be like, oh, that song is better than mine. Fuck, but but like you're not gonna be like, oh, I keep asking you to hang out and keep. 00:46:24 Speaker 3: Saying no, kay, you're making me feel like a loser. 00:46:26 Speaker 2: Yeah. I was like, wait, that's a comedy thing. 00:46:32 Speaker 3: You can't take everything from us. 00:46:34 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. 00:46:35 Speaker 3: That was the fact that they have each other's phone number, Like I'm always curious, Like I guess they ask somebody to get that person's phone number, or they run into them at a well in an industry party. 00:46:44 Speaker 2: Okay, I don't know if this is I don't know this. I also think pompsters are like give it out really quickly, Like I'm I don't know if this is weird. I don't know. But like when I was with competuous. I was there for like three days and she was like, here's my number. Oh, and I was like, wait, we've barely spoken, and. 00:47:03 Speaker 3: Maybe there's a loneliness. 00:47:05 Speaker 2: It probably is, I mean, yeah, it was. It was interesting. 00:47:08 Speaker 3: I do think there is obviously like the mindset of a person who chooses to uh share their emotions through music. It's just a different mentality that I can't even begin to get behind. Yeah, well it's very vulnerable. Yeah, an extreme vulnerability, which I guess leads to just allowing your phone to be I mean anyone can call you. 00:47:30 Speaker 2: Well talk about I mean, that's the again. The theme is control and letting go. I do think mob stars are the ultimate letting go, Like they had to do both. They have to have control over everything and be like yeah, I don't know, I'm like singing and naked on stage. I don't I don't know what to tell you. Like, I think you have to almost on the mindset of like, yeah, I'll give my phone number and then when someone crazy starts texting me all the time, I'll get a new phone. 00:47:55 Speaker 3: Right, won't affect me in any way? Yeah, interesting. You just have to keep making as many horrible decisions as possible. 00:48:02 Speaker 2: It's it's you can't slow down, right, because when you say down, it's like, well, yeah, none of your life makes sense. It's like, well, yeah, I'm a pop star. Wow. 00:48:14 Speaker 3: Wow, the really cracking open that Psyche is really fascinating, fascinating. Have you texted Kim No, You've got to start texting her now, let's catch up. 00:48:25 Speaker 2: I saw her again because she did Fantasmas and we were in the same scene for that. Interesting because it was all Julio and he. But he was like, So I saw her, and I was like, assuming she wouldn't recognize me, it's been like two years or something, and I was like, hey, She's like, oh, hi, are you. I was like, okay, that's nice, okay, But then I was like, but I'm still not gonna like I think I'm also shy. And I'm also like, if I shouldn't be hang out with someone, I won't text them to hang out. 00:48:53 Speaker 3: And what could you possibly text her? 00:48:56 Speaker 2: I want to get dinner, just being like, hey, I'm in La now, I want to get dinner. 00:49:02 Speaker 3: That See, this is the sort of choice that you need to make. 00:49:05 Speaker 4: This is your viral moment. I'm just saying I'm a producer sitting here. I know you have Kim Petris's phone number, and the fact that no one has dialed it yet. 00:49:15 Speaker 3: Can you imagine? 00:49:17 Speaker 2: I am not reckless. I cannot be reckless. I can't crash the car. 00:49:21 Speaker 3: This is not a podcast where I will pressure you into calling Kim Petris. I wish it was me. 00:49:26 Speaker 2: Too, but unfortunately I wish this was a podcast where I would be like, sure. 00:49:31 Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, But I guess we're not those. 00:49:33 Speaker 2: People right now. What we're doing is we're choosing mediocrity, but to stay beloved in our community. 00:49:41 Speaker 3: And respect and respect, choosing respect, respect, and I think that that's ultimately what will get us through. 00:49:48 Speaker 2: Yeah, you gotta hope. You gotta hope. There's a long game. 00:49:51 Speaker 3: People are going to look back and say, you know what, Sam, he was respectful. 00:49:56 Speaker 2: Yeah, in my fucking obituary. 00:49:58 Speaker 3: What a legacy. Respectful till the end? Is there anything left to say about Gaga? 00:50:07 Speaker 2: I mean, of course we're about to enter a new Gaga cycle. 00:50:10 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, she's got the new album, got the new album, got. 00:50:13 Speaker 2: The Joker too. And I am feeling like a bit vulnerable because I can get really obsessed with her, I can like really go crazy and in a way where even like sometimes I'm like, no, I'm more powerful when she is like promoting an album because my point of view matters. 00:50:32 Speaker 3: Again, it's like the sun has come out. 00:50:34 Speaker 2: The sun has come out. It's like when it's your birthday, and so it's like, oh, I actually feel like I can speak with authority on everything that's going on. 00:50:41 Speaker 3: Is there any fear, like what if the album's bad? 00:50:45 Speaker 2: The thing is not at all, because if the album's bad, it's like, that's correct. She like I have stood by her through so many things for what fifteen years at this point, basically, I mean the like, no one has listened to Joanne more than me. No one on earth has listened to Joanne. 00:51:06 Speaker 3: I think you can absolutely claim that. 00:51:08 Speaker 2: Talk about a vinyl that I have that I have worn out. Wow, I listened to Joanne so much. 00:51:16 Speaker 3: I don't think I know a single song off of Joean. 00:51:18 Speaker 2: Oh my god, Well you should give it a listen, especially as we get into autumn. 00:51:22 Speaker 3: It's more of her autumn album of course, and she's someone who has strictly summer albums. 00:51:27 Speaker 2: Yeah, well summer in winter. 00:51:29 Speaker 3: Yeah, kind of like late Dark Winter. 00:51:32 Speaker 2: Late Dark Winter, indoors, indoors in the club you just co checked. 00:51:38 Speaker 3: But she does not do the in between seasons. No spring, She's never touched What could that possibly even look like that that would be complicated, it would be it would be I don't think she can do fragile. 00:51:51 Speaker 2: That would be scary. 00:51:56 Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't want her to try it, I mean for another four years. No, but maybe she starts at least thinking about a spring album now. 00:52:07 Speaker 2: For me, and I think a lot of people pop stars need to fail in order to like fully love them right, like I think I among many others. But there was a time when I felt like I was on the cutting edge of the like art pop is actually quite good. And now that's like almost trite to say, but I was a fight, an early early fighter in the trenches. 00:52:29 Speaker 3: Scary territory. Yeah, frustrating, But. 00:52:32 Speaker 2: Because it was bad and because I got so obsessed with being with being argumentative about it, then I was like, Okay, I will be like this until I'm dead. 00:52:46 Speaker 3: Until you're proven right. Yes that's good for you, Yeah, absolutely good for you. 00:52:53 Speaker 2: So you left the church, I found one? 00:52:56 Speaker 3: How many Lady Gaga concerts have you been to? 00:52:59 Speaker 2: Honestly only one? 00:53:00 Speaker 3: Wow? 00:53:01 Speaker 2: Yeah? Which one? The CHROMATICA Ball? And was that? Where was that it was? It was in New York. It was the MetLife Stadium. 00:53:07 Speaker 3: Oh okay, did you have a good time before it? 00:53:12 Speaker 2: It was in the heaven. 00:53:12 Speaker 3: Oh that's wonderful to hear. 00:53:14 Speaker 2: Oh emotional. 00:53:17 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean those giant concerts are. It's a very odd experience. 00:53:21 Speaker 2: It's a very odd experience. And I was worried that it would feel not fun because I was like, well, it won't feel like personal or feel like like, Okay, I get it. You're doing choreo, Okay, I get it. And then I was like, no, she always manages to do that thing that you're talking about where it's like really shooting for something and it like sort of works. But there's also all the stuff that's like not quite working. But I'm like, I love to see that the not shaved away weirdness. 00:53:50 Speaker 3: Right. I'm now like I'm thinking about the movie Evil Dead. Sure, that feels to me like a like a messy good movie. 00:53:58 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think you know, some people would just say campy, but I can't. 00:54:03 Speaker 3: He feels like, yeah, campy is not the it's not it. 00:54:06 Speaker 2: No, but I want to address the haters now and say we are Obviously we could have said camp people, we're not going to. We're not saying on purpose to. 00:54:12 Speaker 3: We're artists as well, and we know we use these words carefully and we treat other people with respect. 00:54:21 Speaker 2: With respect in our opinions are our opinions until they're not. 00:54:26 Speaker 3: Until somebody tells me I'm wrong, and then I bet that I say I had a different opinion the entire time. I of course agree with you. Okay, Well, I'm thrilled to have this on CD. 00:54:39 Speaker 2: You're gonna love it. You're don't really want to spend some time with it. 00:54:41 Speaker 3: I do love a piece of physical media. 00:54:43 Speaker 2: Oh. 00:54:44 Speaker 3: I feel like there is going to come a point when the entire grid goes down and you're gonna have two Lady Gaga albums to trade for other for food, well, not for food for other Lady Gagaga albums. 00:54:57 Speaker 2: Probably that'll be nice. 00:54:59 Speaker 3: I think I own one CD currently, really Lady Gaga's CHROMATICA. 00:55:03 Speaker 2: Well, that's amazing. 00:55:04 Speaker 3: Well, I guess all my CDs are at my parents' house. 00:55:07 Speaker 2: You're starting over. This is the first of. 00:55:12 Speaker 3: This is the new me. Okay, I think it's time to play a game. We're gonna play a game called Gift or a Curse. I need a number between one and ten from you two. 00:55:22 Speaker 2: Okay. 00:55:22 Speaker 3: I have to do some light calculating. So while I calculate, you can promote, recommend, do whatever you want with the microphone. 00:55:29 Speaker 2: I'll be right back. Okay. I have a podcast called trady a Lab that you can listen to. You can follow me on all socials at Sam Taggart on Instagram and basically that's the only one I use, so only follow me there. And I'd like to promote. 00:55:48 Speaker 3: You've got You've promoted stuff that felt good? 00:55:51 Speaker 2: Did that feel good? 00:55:52 Speaker 3: Yeah? It's never a comfortable moment. 00:55:55 Speaker 2: No, well, because I also you know, of course we aren't intimate friends yet, and so there's an element of like, is this a prank, you know, me setting you up to promote? Of course, what would the prank have possibly been? I have no idea. I don't know what's going on that stick and twist ahead of yours. 00:56:16 Speaker 3: Now. I want to think of a prank for that moment for somebody. 00:56:19 Speaker 2: There is something about like you going away into a computer and putting the mic down and be like. 00:56:23 Speaker 3: Go ahead, I was interesting going on. Wow, I've never thought about that, but it kind of makes sense. 00:56:33 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:56:33 Speaker 3: Wow, I've made every one of my guests probably uncomfortable for a split second there. 00:56:37 Speaker 2: Do you feel that they get really timid in that moment? 00:56:40 Speaker 3: Yes, And I understand on other shows when they're like and tell us where you can find you or whatever. I hate saying yeah because we all know where we can find each other. 00:56:49 Speaker 2: It's embarrassing. 00:56:50 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's embarrassing and we all know we're on the internet. Yeah. Yeah, but yeah, a lot of people will shut down in a way where I'm like, this is starting to feel like acting. 00:56:58 Speaker 2: Sure, Sure, there's a happy medium, I think, Yeah. 00:57:03 Speaker 3: Just say the things. 00:57:04 Speaker 2: No, you're right now, I'm like, damn, I shut down a little too much. But I was going through that. I wasn't just dealing with shame. I was dealing with paranoia. 00:57:13 Speaker 3: You thought you were Sunday on a Frank Show, gotcha? 00:57:16 Speaker 2: Cameras are on. I don't know what's going on. 00:57:20 Speaker 3: None of this is being recorded on audio that who knows. Okay, this is how we play gift or a curse. I'm gonna name three things you're going to tell me if there are a gift or a curse and why Okay, and then I'll tell you if you're right or wrong because there are correct answers. Okay, does that make perfect sense? 00:57:39 Speaker 2: Yes? Okay. 00:57:40 Speaker 3: Number one this is from a listener named Peter. Gift or a curse, new cash register opening right when you get to the front of a long line. 00:57:50 Speaker 2: Curse why oh right? Because I'm like totally I get it. Uh, Because then you have to like make a deal with the people behind you where it's like do I deserve to move over even though I'm about to go in this one? And then they have to sort of be like does this line matter at all? There's a moment of anarchy that I think is a curse. 00:58:10 Speaker 3: Okay, And so you're saying it's a curse. Yeah, you're wrong. It's a gift. It's absolutely a gift. You know, it's you learn a lesson there. Oh, you have to be happy for other people in that moment. You can't. You have to stop thinking about yourself. And it is like an ego thing you have to overcome where you think I deserve that you don't deserve that. Sure, the world and the indifference of the grocery store has led to you not getting that. 00:58:38 Speaker 2: Do you decide if it's a cursory gift or does the person. 00:58:40 Speaker 3: That submitted it everything decides, I Askruth truth. Ultimately, there's something. 00:58:46 Speaker 2: Again, I'm sorry that feels religious about this, where it feels like you're like being like punishment is good because it means you learn your lesson anytime you feel pain, that's good. 00:59:02 Speaker 3: This was submitted by the Catholic Church. No, it's just ultimately truth decides the answer, and it does feel like you're just trying to get the point which you're not gonna get, which is shameful of course. Number two, this is from a listener named Lydia. Gift or a curse? Walking in a parade? 00:59:21 Speaker 2: Curse? Why goes too long? Not that fun? And uh, I don't see the appeal of parades in general. 00:59:31 Speaker 3: You're right, Yes, there's no appeal there at all. It's just walking but louder and busier. Yes, I don't want either of those things when I'm walking. 00:59:40 Speaker 2: I can't even enjoy watching a parade. 00:59:42 Speaker 3: No, it's boring. 00:59:43 Speaker 2: It's boring as hell. 00:59:44 Speaker 3: I can just look at a picture of a float and then move on with my life. 00:59:47 Speaker 2: Floats aren't even that creative, to be honest. 00:59:49 Speaker 3: Most of them are bad. 00:59:50 Speaker 2: Most of them are bad. They it's a very more as more thing going on there where they're like, but look how many there are, and it's like, I give me one good one. I would cheer for one good one passing down the square. 01:00:06 Speaker 3: Everyone works together to create one massive, beautiful float. Yes, and it'll take less time. 01:00:14 Speaker 2: We can all make our lunch plans, right. 01:00:16 Speaker 3: We'll all be able to see it because it's so huge. And then yeah, we save resources. I think that's a great And no one has to walk. There's one truck kind of dragging this thing down the road. 01:00:28 Speaker 2: Yeah, one block and then no more street closures too. 01:00:31 Speaker 3: Thank god. La beautifully played. 01:00:34 Speaker 2: Okay. 01:00:34 Speaker 3: Number three. This is from a listener named Kelsey Gift to a curse cooking videos where they slam each of the ingredients down before shopping slash cooking them. 01:00:46 Speaker 2: I think curse. I think because it demonstrates this theory that's been working around of TikTok lights, sounds and colors made to trick your brain into watching things longer. It's not because you're engaged, is because they've figured out like the right pattern of ways to make your brain need to see more. And so I think curse. 01:01:10 Speaker 3: You're correct, it's a curse. There's nothing wrong with being gentle with an ingredient. I think just setting it down like a normal person. No one in their kitchen alone, if you slam them alone in your kitchen. Okay, you can put yourself on video. But there's also something wrong. 01:01:27 Speaker 2: With you, of course. 01:01:28 Speaker 3: And so you're obviously doing this as a performative thing, yes, And if you're not, then hopefully someone in your family or close friend circle sees the video and realizes that they need to reach out to you. There's something going on in your kitchen that's not right. 01:01:44 Speaker 2: I think there's a lot of unhealthy performance that has been bred from TikTok culture. And I'm like, we need to figure out, like we need more arts and schools because we need people to have an outlet for their need to perform that isn't like on the internet. 01:02:01 Speaker 3: Wow, that's that's very true. Wow, that would solve so many issues, so many societal ills. I mean, if we had some arts and crafts to do in our lives, we wouldn't be desperately seeking this attention and doing the number one hardest job. 01:02:16 Speaker 2: Well, we still would be and you know we would have excelled in the classes, of course. 01:02:22 Speaker 3: But if I had the tuba, well, look, everything would be different from me. 01:02:30 Speaker 2: Do you ever meet someone that lives in a small town and they're like, well, my band and I'm like, what do you mean? 01:02:37 Speaker 3: That's very fine? You're like, I'm trying to I'm trying to understand. Like they have like a rock. 01:02:46 Speaker 2: Band, yeah, like them and their buddies like get together and play. And I'm like, but what. 01:02:50 Speaker 3: How to what end to? 01:02:52 Speaker 2: What end? Like? 01:02:55 Speaker 3: But I will say I feel like those we are where the good bands come from, right, Well, but they eventually just go to New York, yeah, or other city? Not really, I feel like, yeah, I guess musicians coming to LA always feels like a confusing choice to me. 01:03:11 Speaker 2: They do do it, though, they. 01:03:12 Speaker 3: Do, and it feels like the wrong place to come when you're first starting as a musician. 01:03:18 Speaker 2: Well, I couldn't agree more. 01:03:20 Speaker 3: It feels like you should go to New York or Chicago. Chicago's a yeah, good town to be playing. It's cheaper, right obviously. Portland Okay, we've named a three big ones interesting. But have you run into somebody who said my band? Did you go see the band? 01:03:36 Speaker 2: I didn't see the band, but I was just sort of surprised. Yeah, I think part of it. I think so I'm from small towns and I left them because I was like, well, there's I can't do anything here except except have a child, and I don't have interest in having a child right at this stage of my life. 01:03:56 Speaker 3: And probably at that time it was before you could really create a re in this on the internet. Yes, which now people kind of because I'm in a similar situation where like, growing up, every band in Utah was absolutely dreadful, horrible musicians, bad songwriting, bad taste. But now it feels like there's actually like a scene flourishing which more democratized. Yes, exactly. But now I'm I'm gonna I know, I'm gonna go home and someone's gonna mention their band, and I don't know what I'm gonna say. 01:04:29 Speaker 2: I always it's like, yeah, I'm pretty condescending, like and I'm trying to be respectful, but I'm. 01:04:35 Speaker 3: Like, I do that whether the band's good or not. It is just a strange thing to suddenly hear someone's in a band. 01:04:42 Speaker 2: That's true. 01:04:43 Speaker 3: It's a surprise, that's true, unless they're currently holding a guitar. 01:04:47 Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, because it's not even like, oh, I play this instrument. It's like I'm in a band. So it's like you have coworkers, you have you found others. 01:04:57 Speaker 3: And then there's the uncomfortable question of what type of music do you play? 01:05:00 Speaker 2: What's the music to play? And I'm not to be. Not to be careerists are like, what are the goals? I'm like, is it for fun? Because if it is, that's great. But I guess when someone's like I'm in a band, it's like that implies to me, like and we're working on an album, or like we have a shoot coming up, but you're just like, I'm in a band. 01:05:20 Speaker 3: Thinking about a man like van Halen a shoot coming Come on? 01:05:25 Speaker 2: Bands have shoots, fans have shoots. 01:05:31 Speaker 3: Bands rarely have shoots. Anymore money for videos? 01:05:36 Speaker 2: Do a shoot? 01:05:39 Speaker 3: Wow? Interesting? Well you got two out of three. Well that's good really not horribly played, and that's all we can possibly ask for. This is the final segment of the podcast. It's called I said no emails, people write in too. I said no gifts at Gmail. Dot com to beg for answers. You help me answer a question, love. Okay, this is dear Bridger and disobe guest. My partner, My partner and I are looking to buy our first home and we found a deal on a house that for its size and neighborhood should be And I'm just going to quickly note neighborhood has a youth, so dealing with someone in a different territory, just be aware while you're imagining this. Okay, for its size and neighborhoods should be listed far beyond our budget, but is priced at a discount because a man was murdered by his husband in the basement. 01:06:26 Speaker 2: A few years ago. 01:06:27 Speaker 3: Okay, I mean gay rights. 01:06:30 Speaker 2: Needless to say, that's equality, allow allow the new villains. 01:06:39 Speaker 3: We know this because in Canada at least, you have to disclose if a murder took place in a home when selling it. While there is no confirmed reports of the house being haunted, do we risk the curse slash ghost of the murdered husband and put an offer in Appreciate your insight. And that's from Sabrina and Toronto. 01:06:57 Speaker 2: Oh, so what is the question? Where should they buy this? 01:07:01 Speaker 3: They buy the haunted house. 01:07:03 Speaker 2: I think yes. I think it's fucked up that Canada makes you disclosed if someone was murdered in that. 01:07:11 Speaker 3: I think that's true of the United States. It is, it must be. 01:07:15 Speaker 2: Why would that be anyone's business because if there's a ghost, But what are you talking about? If someone's murdered in the building. It's like, okay, like, do we have to disclose? Like if someone like yelled too loud, like if like a relationship was just like not vibing, like what like, It's it's insane to me. 01:07:36 Speaker 3: I guess it is like you having to disclose if it someone said a magic spell in a house. 01:07:40 Speaker 4: Yeah, only three states require in the United States, Alaska, South Dakota, and California. 01:07:45 Speaker 3: Oh interesting, whoa wow. So if you're a real estate agent that wants to sell murder houses, you've got forty seven other states to pick from. 01:07:54 Speaker 2: What if you accidentally murder someone? What if it's manslaughter? What if you dalk a bookshelf over? 01:07:58 Speaker 3: Interesting? They not, So you're just saying death in general. If someone's died in the. 01:08:03 Speaker 2: House, well at someone else's legally speaking. 01:08:06 Speaker 3: Okay, now that's yeah, do you have to disclose manslaughter? 01:08:10 Speaker 4: Well, this just is death, period death, So it doesn't have to even be a murder. 01:08:13 Speaker 3: Just about death to me is a bridge too far. 01:08:16 Speaker 2: Yeah, the government going the government overreach is insane. 01:08:19 Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm calling for smaller government on this podcast. 01:08:25 Speaker 2: I think I think I think they should buy the house. 01:08:29 Speaker 3: I think they should buy the house. I mean again, if there's a ghost in the house, that has added value to me. Of course, how is that in any way taking away from the home. You have a third, you have a third built in, you can't escape. 01:08:44 Speaker 2: I'm curious of the sexual orientation of the couple. Interesting because I'm sort of like, if you're also a gay couple, then I'd be a little scared. 01:08:53 Speaker 3: Because you think it's gay curse. 01:08:55 Speaker 2: If it's gay curse, then I'm sort of scared for you. 01:08:59 Speaker 3: Only gay people can be murdered in this house. 01:09:01 Speaker 2: Yeah. 01:09:02 Speaker 3: Interesting. They should put that to the test. 01:09:04 Speaker 2: Yeah, they should. 01:09:05 Speaker 3: They should ask to spend a day in the basement. 01:09:07 Speaker 2: Was and I also obviously need to know how bad the murder was, Like, well, they know how it ended, but I need to know, like, was it like really fucked. 01:09:17 Speaker 3: Up like torture situation? 01:09:19 Speaker 2: Was it was just sort of like got drunk and shot him in the. 01:09:23 Speaker 3: Head, right, kind of an old fashion, Yeah, a little lover's quarrel, like with a cute six shooter. Yeah, kind of Western. 01:09:32 Speaker 2: Drop the gun and handshaking, like what have I done? If there's remorse, I think that changes it too. You don't have to disclose if the murderer felt bad, Yeah I did. 01:09:46 Speaker 3: I think that's a good point. If someone was like pulled into different pieces in this basement and dissected, or you know, run through a grinder, yeah, it's gonna be tough, you know, flattened by a giant stone. These are some different ways you can murder people in a gross way. 01:10:03 Speaker 2: Yeah. 01:10:03 Speaker 3: But if they just like drowned them, sure, you know, or gave them sleeping pills. 01:10:09 Speaker 2: Sleeping pills, that should barely count. 01:10:11 Speaker 3: That's I mean, it doesn't count. Let's let's that's barely a murder. Yeah, that's another category. 01:10:18 Speaker 2: Yeah, people a self defense. 01:10:21 Speaker 3: Maybe it was going on in the relationship exactly. 01:10:25 Speaker 2: So buy the. 01:10:25 Speaker 3: House and you're getting a great deal. 01:10:28 Speaker 2: Google the murder, then buy the house. 01:10:32 Speaker 3: That's a great real estate slog. 01:10:37 Speaker 2: But you know, real estate is expensive. 01:10:40 Speaker 3: It is expensive. It's very hard to buy a house, and when you get the chance to buy the Haunted one. 01:10:46 Speaker 2: Go for it. What are they going to do? Burn it down somebody there? 01:10:49 Speaker 3: And again, can we just say back to choices, stories, book deals, Sabrina, We've just given you a full career that both of us are desperate to. 01:11:00 Speaker 2: Not only do you get a house half off, you also get a fucking book deal. 01:11:04 Speaker 3: You're being sold at airports. 01:11:07 Speaker 2: This is it's it just got options to become a movie. 01:11:12 Speaker 3: Wow, Sabrina, never right back in. 01:11:16 Speaker 2: Wow. 01:11:16 Speaker 3: We answered it perfectly. And now I have CHROMATICA. 01:11:20 Speaker 2: Yes, I enjoy it. 01:11:21 Speaker 3: So happy to have this object in my home. Yea. Thank you so much. And I just encourage you to continue finding places for the other CDs. Yeah, but always keep it at least one extra for yourself. Of course, he's gonna you're gonna wear it out of entry. 01:11:35 Speaker 2: I mean, I'm gonna need it. You're going to Yah, there's. 01:11:38 Speaker 3: Gonna come a moment where you were going to say thank you Bridger for making me keep this extra CD. 01:11:43 Speaker 2: There was a point where I was like, no, this is actually an amazing thing to go away because it's like, yes, of course there's countless CHROMATICA CDs out in the world. But I was like, but Bridger gets one of my three. 01:11:56 Speaker 3: Wow, I'm honored. Yeah, I appreciate. 01:11:59 Speaker 2: Yeah, of course, I've. 01:12:00 Speaker 3: Had a wonderful time with you, Sam. This has thank you for being here and listener. The podcast is absolutely over. It's come to a close. Find something else to do. I love you, goodbye. I said, No Gifts is an exactly right production. It's produced by our dear friend Analise Nelson, and it's beautifully mixed by Ben Holliday. And we couldn't do it without our guest booker, Patrick Kottner. The theme song, of course, could only come from miracle worker Amy Mann. You must follow the show on Instagram at I said no gifts. I don't want to hear any excuses. That's where you get to see pictures of all these gorgeous gifts I'm getting. And don't you want to see pictures of the gifts? 01:12:46 Speaker 2: Hell in, why did you hear? 01:12:50 Speaker 1: Fun? 01:12:50 Speaker 2: A man? 01:12:51 Speaker 1: Myself perfectly clear? But you're I guess Tom, you gotta come to me empty And I said no, guests, your own presence is presents enough. I already had too much stuff, So how do you dare to surbey Me