Speaker 1: A major trailblazer in the financial service system is Jane Fraser.
Speaker 1: Two years ago, she became the CEO of City and
Speaker 1: in doing so, became the first woman to had a
Speaker 1: major money center bank. Today, City and other major banks
Speaker 1: in the United States are facing challenges to the banking system.
Speaker 1: I sat down with Jane Fraser recently to talk about
Speaker 1: these and other challenges. Anything new in the banking world.
Speaker 1: It's been a quiet week, quiet week, David, So so
Speaker 1: let's talk about what has been going on. Let's start
Speaker 1: with the Easy Ones Silicon Valley Bank. What went wrong there? Well,
Speaker 1: before we dive into that, I've worked in financial markets
Speaker 1: all around the world, and I have to say we're
Speaker 1: very lucky in America. This is the best financial system
Speaker 1: in the world. It is the end factivally okay, but
Speaker 1: despite it being the best, we have some problems time
Speaker 1: to time. Yeah, but they're they're isolated problems. So when
Speaker 1: you when you look at it, the financial systems is
Speaker 1: broadest deep here as competitive. We've bought some large banks
Speaker 1: that are well capitalized and a source of strength. At
Speaker 1: the moment, we have medium sized banks, regional banks, and
Speaker 1: buy a large they are equally well capitalized, serving their
Speaker 1: communities play an important part in the banking system. This
Speaker 1: is quite isolated, okay, but people are still interested in
Speaker 1: hearing about it. So, so your bank is well capitalized.
Speaker 1: Your bank, I should have said, as a bank with
Speaker 1: about two hundred and thirty thousand employers and about an
Speaker 1: eighty five billion dollar market capitalization. So your bank is
Speaker 1: in good shape. And your bank is the fourth biggest
Speaker 1: bank in the United States, that right, JP, Morgan Bank
Speaker 1: of America, Wells Fargo, and then City. There is a
Speaker 1: bank on the West coast called Silicon Valley Bank, or
Speaker 1: there was a bank there not as well capitalized. I
Speaker 1: mean that the regulator is not under seeing what was
Speaker 1: going on, or are people in the banking where are
Speaker 1: people like you? Were you surprised by what happened. So
Speaker 1: you had a combination of two pieces. You've had the
Speaker 1: macro and some idiosyncratic and factors around Silicon Valley Bank,
Speaker 1: but then you also had the impact accelerated by social
Speaker 1: media of what went down and the rates curve and
Speaker 1: the increase in rates that's been most we've seen the
Speaker 1: fastest and the steepest in forty years. So there's a
Speaker 1: bit of pain that comes from that. Secondly, you did
Speaker 1: have idiosyncratic factors I think is the polite British way
Speaker 1: of describing them in Silicon Valley Bank. So as all
Speaker 1: this played out, you saw some pretty serious holes in
Speaker 1: their balance sheet management, and they had a very concentrated
Speaker 1: client base, and that client base ended up burning cash
Speaker 1: much faster than anticipated, and they ended up wanting to
Speaker 1: raise capital and it went down pretty quick. In the
Speaker 1: Greater Session in seven o eight or so, the US
Speaker 1: government passed TARP legislation, and under the TARP legislation, large
Speaker 1: amounts of capital were injected into banks, including City and
Speaker 1: effectively that meant that the shareholders, the creditors, and the
Speaker 1: depositors were all protected. This time around Silicon Valley Bank,
Speaker 1: was only the depositors work protected or were decision made
Speaker 1: by the bide administration others over the weekend. Do you
Speaker 1: think that was the right decision to protect only the
Speaker 1: depositors and say goodbye to the shareholders and goodbye to
Speaker 1: the creditors. I think it's very important to protect the
Speaker 1: depositors right now. The banking system everywhere around the world
Speaker 1: depends on confidence, and that confidence has to be in
Speaker 1: the safety and security of deposits. So in terms of
Speaker 1: the most important job here they did the most important job,
Speaker 1: which is making sure the depositors will whole. So in
Speaker 1: the old days when there were bank runs, used to
Speaker 1: see people lined up outside the street and get their
Speaker 1: money out. Now you're just on your iPhone or whatever
Speaker 1: phone you have, you can take your money out. So
Speaker 1: money moved so quickly was at a factor as well.
Speaker 1: And having the money get out of a bank so
Speaker 1: quickly on the weight and line, you can just do
Speaker 1: it over there. It is a complete game changer from
Speaker 1: what we've seen before. David, You're absolutely right. There were
Speaker 1: a couple of tweets and then this thing went down
Speaker 1: much faster than has appened in history. And frankly, I
Speaker 1: think the regulators did a good job in responding very quickly,
Speaker 1: because normally you have longer to respond to this, so
Speaker 1: they acted with quite a lot of speak even how
Speaker 1: quickly this happened. So some people say you have a
Speaker 1: moral hazard when you protect people. So by protecting all
Speaker 1: the depositors in Silicon Valley Bank, the implication was that
Speaker 1: if somebody else has a problem, will protect them and
Speaker 1: so forth, And so the two hundred and fifty thousand
Speaker 1: dollars limit is meaningless more or less? Or do you
Speaker 1: think the federals are and the Secretary of Treasurers saying
Speaker 1: we're not going to protect every depositor or we're going
Speaker 1: to protect certain depositors. I don't think they need to
Speaker 1: go out right now because the banking system is pretty sound,
Speaker 1: and we're talking about a few banks. We had it
Speaker 1: from the Chairman pal today. This is not something that
Speaker 1: is spread across the entire banking system. Isn't like it
Speaker 1: was last time. This is not a credit crisis. This
Speaker 1: is a situation where it's a few banks that have
Speaker 1: some problems and it's better to make sure that we
Speaker 1: nip that in the bud. Not to pick on the
Speaker 1: West Coast, but there's another West Coast bank, First Republic Bank,
Speaker 1: which is around the country but based in San Francisco,
Speaker 1: and they've had some problems and they've had gigantic declining
Speaker 1: their market value and so forth. Do you expect that
Speaker 1: somebody will bail them out or buy them? Well, I'm
Speaker 1: not going to comment in depth on First Republic because
Speaker 1: they are actively working through the challenges that they're facing
Speaker 1: right now. What you saw last week was a number
Speaker 1: of the large banks eleven of us got together to
Speaker 1: put a large capital or deposit injection into them to
Speaker 1: how by the time to make sure that they could
Speaker 1: come up with the right solution for the restructuring that's needed.
Speaker 1: So the large banks and others put in roughly thirty
Speaker 1: billion dollars of the past. So I think you put
Speaker 1: in roughly five billion or something like that. So how
Speaker 1: did that happen? It Jamie Diamond call you up and
Speaker 1: say you have five billion dollars you don't really need
Speaker 1: and you can put it in. The first republican is
Speaker 1: that you have to go to your board to say
Speaker 1: I need to get five billion dollars somewhere. I mean,
Speaker 1: how or how do you make that decision? And was
Speaker 1: it you just say that, Jamie, I'll call you back,
Speaker 1: I'll think about it, or how does that work? So
Speaker 1: what are the great things about this? Was actually that
Speaker 1: the banks did all come back together. Because you think
Speaker 1: of it, we're all pretty We usually try and kill
Speaker 1: each other in different deals that we're trying to do,
Speaker 1: so there's a lot of competition between us. But in
Speaker 1: this instance, this is one where yeah, we're in a
Speaker 1: strong position. We want to stop what could have been
Speaker 1: a problem. And we all know when there is a
Speaker 1: confidence crisis, the logic that takes over, isn't it necessary?
Speaker 1: Really rational? So we wanted to go and help protect
Speaker 1: the system. It's in the interests to do so. So
Speaker 1: despite this being quite a divisive environment that we're all
Speaker 1: operating in, this is an instance of the bank's coming
Speaker 1: together and saying, okay, what can we do here to
Speaker 1: support a system that we have confidence in? And you
Speaker 1: don't put five billion dollars into the system through the
Speaker 1: generosity of your own heart. You do it because you
Speaker 1: have confidence in the system itself. You expect to get
Speaker 1: their money back eventually. Yes, okay, So Jamie Diamond is
Speaker 1: a great banker. I think he's been the head of
Speaker 1: Japan Worker for seventeen years something like that. Jamie Diamond
Speaker 1: well regarded. But why do you think it is the
Speaker 1: case that he's calling around and doing this and not
Speaker 1: the Secretary Treasury, the Chairman of the Federal Reserved, the
Speaker 1: head of the FDIC. Why is it a non government
Speaker 1: person is doing this. I want to thought a government
Speaker 1: person would do this. David, Why do you think that
Speaker 1: Janet wasn't calling around doing it? Do you believe everything
Speaker 1: you read in the newspapers? Tis because when people and
Speaker 1: who do something good, they usually have the press know
Speaker 1: about it. So but maybe she was going round. I'm
Speaker 1: sure she was. But Jamie seems to be getting all
Speaker 1: the credit if credit is the right word, or is
Speaker 1: that not fair to give him the credit? Oh? I
Speaker 1: Jamie played a role. I think we all played a role,
Speaker 1: and so did There was a very active discussion over
Speaker 1: that weekend. Which city consider buying First Republic or you're
Speaker 1: not interested in No, you're not buying? Okay, another bank,
Speaker 1: but Credit Swiss. Credit Swiss seemed to dissolve very very quickly.
Speaker 1: Were you surprised at how quickly that bank kind of
Speaker 1: went away? After about one hundred years of being around.
Speaker 1: So the nice thing, we're about three or four banks
Speaker 1: out of the thousands that are here in the States
Speaker 1: and the rest of it. So let's put that in perspective.
Speaker 1: So Credit Suis. I don't think anyone was falling off
Speaker 1: their chair. The Credit Suis ultimately ended up where it did.
Speaker 1: It was really a question of time. It's been a
Speaker 1: troubled institution for a long time. Those of you who
Speaker 1: don't know it, it's a very global bank in Swiss.
Speaker 1: It's got a very strong operation in Switzerland, good wealth
Speaker 1: management in Asia, investment bank here in the States and
Speaker 1: around the world. But it's had a lot of issues.
Speaker 1: It's had a lot of management instability, It's had a
Speaker 1: number of different crises and things that have hit it. Well.
Speaker 1: Credit Swiss has some great private bankers and they have
Speaker 1: some great clients. Are the city bankers calling up at
Speaker 1: Credit Swiss former employees and saying you should come here
Speaker 1: now or something like that, I think they're calling us
Speaker 1: they are, okay, all right, okay, growing up? What did
Speaker 1: you say wanted to be the CEO of city when
Speaker 1: you're growing up? What did you think? I want to
Speaker 1: be a doctor when I grew up? But I was
Speaker 1: really lousy at biology, So that kind of news that one.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of people who want to go to
Speaker 1: medical school. So okay, you grew up in Edinburgh area, yep?
Speaker 1: I did? And were your parents bankers? No, definitely not so.
Speaker 1: My father was a Scottish accountant, which meant you you're
Speaker 1: not really relying on parental generosity and extra pocket money
Speaker 1: from a scot Tish accountant as a father. So I
Speaker 1: used to earn my pocket money on the golf course
Speaker 1: at Saint Andrew's counting. You would not know it from
Speaker 1: my golf game, but I'm truth's better than mine. So
Speaker 1: you went to Cambridge after you graduated? What did you
Speaker 1: do after I graduate? I joined Golbyn as an analyst.
Speaker 1: That's an easy job to get, an easy job when
Speaker 1: you haven't you don't work more than thirty forty hours
Speaker 1: a week. Yes, yeah, yes, So how many years did
Speaker 1: you do that? So? I worked to Goldman for a
Speaker 1: couple of years and I was I was young when
Speaker 1: I started, and everyone was I was the boring girl
Speaker 1: from Scotland. Everyone else was European, spoke multiple languages and
Speaker 1: was a lot more exotic and interesting than me. So
Speaker 1: after I finished the Annist program, I thought I'd better
Speaker 1: make myself a bit more interesting. So I moved to
Speaker 1: Spain and speak Spanish before I didn't. So now you
Speaker 1: speak Spanish perfect amenty, Well, I know one word, maybe
Speaker 1: see or something like that. I don't ever, but I
Speaker 1: you know, my language skills are very limited, so so
Speaker 1: luckily you have other talents though, which But so you
Speaker 1: do there for a couple of years and then you
Speaker 1: decide to go where America? All right? And where did
Speaker 1: you want to go in America? I did the same again,
Speaker 1: taught my way into Harvard Business School, and I was
Speaker 1: fascinated by the American machine. And if you've spend a
Speaker 1: bit of time in Europe and growing up in the
Speaker 1: you know, the eighties, seventies and eighties, it's fascinating to
Speaker 1: America is just something you want to try and understand
Speaker 1: in the American economy and the American entrepreneurs not someone
Speaker 1: you ever wanted to bet again. So when you went
Speaker 1: to Harvard Business School, you entered in ninety two something
Speaker 1: like that? That's right? Did you entered ninety two? Were
Speaker 1: there are a lot of women in your class, probably
Speaker 1: about twenty four twenty five percent something like that, Yes,
Speaker 1: and enough of us to cause trouble? All right? You
Speaker 1: graduate from Harvard Business School and then you decide to
Speaker 1: go to McKenzie, Yes, I did. And why did you
Speaker 1: want to be a consultant? Well, first of all was
Speaker 1: why didn't Why didn't I go back into banking at
Speaker 1: that time? And I've been in banking in the eighties
Speaker 1: where there weren't many women in banking, unlike the business school,
Speaker 1: they wore suits with very big shoulder pads, and they
Speaker 1: were more scary than the men um You remember that,
Speaker 1: you remember the era. And so when I looked at
Speaker 1: the consulting, particularly McKinsey, I like partnerships. I think partnerships
Speaker 1: are great places to grow up. The apprenticeship models wonderful
Speaker 1: global institution and firm, and also it was quite strategic
Speaker 1: in what they were looking at. It was similar issues
Speaker 1: to M and A at GOUM. But I thought I
Speaker 1: would have a chance of having a family a bit
Speaker 1: more predictability met in the work schedule. So you did
Speaker 1: it for ten years, roughly ten years, and you had
Speaker 1: two children during that time. So you you go to McKinsey,
Speaker 1: you work your way up, you become a partner there
Speaker 1: and you being a partner mckinsi's a great job. Why
Speaker 1: did you decide to leave to go to city. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I became a mum at the same time as I
Speaker 1: became a partner, and I worked part time all the
Speaker 1: way through my partnership years. And McKinsey was fantastic about
Speaker 1: that because I was able to spend time with the
Speaker 1: kids before they went into school, but then when they
Speaker 1: got when they were then at school that I felt like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I can go back full time working again, and I
Speaker 1: you know, I honestly I felt like it was time
Speaker 1: that I could prove that I would I could do it,
Speaker 1: rather than just advice. All right, she went to city
Speaker 1: at the time. Did you think a woman could become
Speaker 1: or would ever become the head of city? I honestly
Speaker 1: never thought about it. It mean, at that point, it's
Speaker 1: a firm that there were quite a few women around
Speaker 1: in I'd been in an environment was always very supportive
Speaker 1: around it and fantastic mele mentors and others, and it
Speaker 1: wasn't It was just never something I thought about. This
Speaker 1: was twenty years ago, so I was just enjoying the
Speaker 1: day job. So you had a series of jobs everyone
Speaker 1: you were the CEO of this division or that division
Speaker 1: and so forth. And one time they asked you to
Speaker 1: move to Latin America to be the CEO of Latin America.
Speaker 1: Did you think that was a dead end, You're going
Speaker 1: to move to Latin America get out of the way
Speaker 1: of the succession, or did you think that was a
Speaker 1: way to get promoted. It was a big turnaround role.
Speaker 1: And it's one of those ones you say if I
Speaker 1: did a good job, then that was going to put
Speaker 1: me in good position for bigger, bigger opportunities head And
Speaker 1: if I did a bad job, then you know, so
Speaker 1: be it. You wouldn't you weren't afraid they would forget you.
Speaker 1: You're down in Brazil or something, and you weren't afraid
Speaker 1: they would forget you and everything like that. Okay, so
Speaker 1: you did a good job, you come back and you're
Speaker 1: the head of the Global Consumer Bank. What is that
Speaker 1: Global Consumer Bank in City? So that that's retail banking.
Speaker 1: That's a credit card, which I believe you are a
Speaker 1: proud owner of a City credit card. David, I am
Speaker 1: I have that in here. I can't. I'm getting I
Speaker 1: don't have enough frequent Flyer miles on it, though I'm
Speaker 1: trying to. You told me I'm not qualified for my
Speaker 1: frequent fire miles. But yeah, you've got the wrong card.
Speaker 1: Is it a it? Is this the best credit card
Speaker 1: you can get? So, David, you have the one with
Speaker 1: our wonderful partner of American Airlines and they yours is black.
Speaker 1: I can mind which is better. You've got to ask
Speaker 1: for it, David. Okay, all right, Well, although I suspect
Speaker 1: you may not be flying quite as much on the
Speaker 1: commercial airlines. Currently, many CEOs are under pressure to take
Speaker 1: positions on public policy matters, So positions are on voting
Speaker 1: rights or or um climate change. So where do you
Speaker 1: think CEO should be getting in the middle of talking
Speaker 1: about those kind of things or do you try to
Speaker 1: not do that when they matter to your business model? Um,
Speaker 1: and when they're important for progress. UM. If you're a bank,
Speaker 1: you care a little about economic growth and progress around
Speaker 1: the world, So yes, we will speak out on that. Also,
Speaker 1: if it's very important to our people the communities that
Speaker 1: we're in, it will be topics we'll talk about. We
Speaker 1: don't view that as being political, but it's about what
Speaker 1: do we stand for as a bank? Now, what about diversity,
Speaker 1: equity and inclusion. What are you doing to make sure
Speaker 1: you have other diversity standards met in the bank? It's
Speaker 1: it's a really important part of the bank because I
Speaker 1: think because we've got people from everywhere who work at
Speaker 1: City and they want to work for an American enterprise.
Speaker 1: It's a real compelling point of the bank in attracting
Speaker 1: talent from all over the world for City. My predecessor
Speaker 1: really was very focused on making sure that we had
Speaker 1: strong diversity of all types in the bank, and we
Speaker 1: worked out that radical transparency is very, very valuable. So
Speaker 1: we put out three year targets on representation and we
Speaker 1: disclose those every close exactly what they are. The targets
Speaker 1: we have on both recruiting and in retention and in
Speaker 1: promoting or in everybody's schoolcard. And we also have pay equity,
Speaker 1: so every single year we measure you have a third
Speaker 1: party come in and make sure that every woman is
Speaker 1: paid exactly the same as a man in the same
Speaker 1: job performing at the same level. When did you realize
Speaker 1: for the first time I could be or you could
Speaker 1: be the CEO of the bank. I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: there are a lot of people. You have two hundred
Speaker 1: and thirty thousand employees, a lot of them want to
Speaker 1: be When did you realize for the first time you
Speaker 1: had a chance to get that when I was made
Speaker 1: president of the bank. Because up until then you just
Speaker 1: you don't really have a sense. But that was a
Speaker 1: point when Mike and John had a conversation about being
Speaker 1: a likely successor, but no guarantees in life, and I'd
Speaker 1: better do a good job. Okay. So your predecessor was
Speaker 1: Michael Corbett. Yeah, he retired about two years ago. Succeeded him.
Speaker 1: What was the biggest challenge you had in becoming the
Speaker 1: CEO right away? It was COVID, So this was becoming
Speaker 1: CEO during COVID is not the easiest because you know,
Speaker 1: one's used to going around going to different sites, seeing
Speaker 1: our people, seeing our clients in person. And while Zoom
Speaker 1: did an amazing job, it is not the same and
Speaker 1: so I know you have to learn how to lead
Speaker 1: in a different way. Today. City is a bank that
Speaker 1: is announced it's changing its strategy and you now want
Speaker 1: to be a consumer and institutional business bank in the
Speaker 1: United States? Is that right? Yeah, and you're getting out
Speaker 1: of the consumer business outside of the United States. So
Speaker 1: what we've said we are rather than what we're not,
Speaker 1: is that it's a pretty extraordinary bank in its history
Speaker 1: and its presence globally. It's uniquely operate opens the door
Speaker 1: as a bank in a hundred different countries. So the
Speaker 1: City is to be the pre eminent banking partner for
Speaker 1: companies and for investors and for individuals across border needs.
Speaker 1: And that's the vision of the bank. That's the will
Speaker 1: serve that client base as their absolutely critical partner. Hey see,
Speaker 1: you've sold a number of your international consumer businesses and
Speaker 1: you've an Now you're trying to sell your business in Mexico,
Speaker 1: the consumer business business. Who are you going to sell
Speaker 1: that too? Oh, we've been We've been fortunate to have
Speaker 1: a lot of interest there. Look, we looked at we
Speaker 1: looked at a consumer banking and we could see that. Originally,
Speaker 1: the view had been that you would get a lot
Speaker 1: of global scale and consumer banking, and we were very
Speaker 1: strong in a number of different geographies. But the reality
Speaker 1: is you don't get as much scale globally. It's much
Speaker 1: more about local scale and those businesses. So we decided,
Speaker 1: let's focus. We want the bank to be simple. We
Speaker 1: want to be truly excellent or what we do. And
Speaker 1: that's better if you're a more focused bank around for
Speaker 1: your business life. So that's right, that's the path we're on.
Speaker 1: So the bank stock under your predecessors and to some
Speaker 1: eccenter you hasn't really moved in ten years. Is that
Speaker 1: a concern. Well, we're transforming the bank to make sure
Speaker 1: that we're in a very different position. So we're changing
Speaker 1: the strategy of the bank because we talked about and
Speaker 1: that entails selling sixty five thousand employees. It's twenty five
Speaker 1: percent of our employee base, so we can really focus
Speaker 1: and double down on the businesses that makes sense. Two
Speaker 1: thirty thousand you have, you're selling sixty five thousand. Yes,
Speaker 1: While yes, it's a lot, and I think it's under
Speaker 1: the belief that what where we truly excel. We will
Speaker 1: move every single day four trillion dollars of volume for
Speaker 1: five thousand multinational firms and there's no other bank in
Speaker 1: the world that can do that. That's an incredible asset
Speaker 1: for America. It's a strategic asset for the States because
Speaker 1: you'd much rather have American companies operating on an America
Speaker 1: and banking rails and not foreign banking rails, particularly these days.
Speaker 1: So that's what we're focusing the bank around, is that
Speaker 1: client base. And it's a big transformation. David right, This
Speaker 1: is bold. This takes some courage to do. We're making
Speaker 1: really good progress on it, and we're putting a lot
Speaker 1: of investment into modernizing the bank because we've had some
Speaker 1: regulatory orders against us as well, to make sure that
Speaker 1: we make the investments we need to and making sure
Speaker 1: the culture is there of real excellence. But also to
Speaker 1: be a human bank. We've talked about that being important
Speaker 1: or put all of that together. That's a lot of transformations,
Speaker 1: a lot of work, but we're really we're determined around it,
Speaker 1: and we're completely convinced that that puts the bank into
Speaker 1: a different profitability, different return profile and ultimately the benefit
Speaker 1: of our shareholders. Suppose I'm listening to what you say,
Speaker 1: and I say, she's obviously urtic killer, she's committed. Maybe
Speaker 1: I'll myyer stock. You think your stocks are goodbye? Right now? Yes,
Speaker 1: very my buy it. I can get an appreciation of
Speaker 1: some percent I can be happy with you think not
Speaker 1: as good as private equity returns, but good Right for
Speaker 1: young professionals, why should they want to work in a
Speaker 1: large commercial bank. What's the appeal of it? Why if
Speaker 1: somebody gets goes to Harvard Business School, why not go
Speaker 1: to a private equity firm, a hedge firm, one of
Speaker 1: these important organizations. And what's the how do you recruit
Speaker 1: people into place like city? What is it that you
Speaker 1: say is so great about being a commercial banker. America's
Speaker 1: global banks are right in the center of some of
Speaker 1: the biggest challenges that are going on in the world. Geopolitically,
Speaker 1: we get pulled into the conversations we're supporting, we're playing
Speaker 1: a critical role in supporting clients and countries, and you
Speaker 1: get an opportunity to come and work and learn in
Speaker 1: a team environment, in an apprenticeship model on how to
Speaker 1: tackle and solve some of these pieces. What do you
Speaker 1: do for relaxation and to get away from the office
Speaker 1: from time to time? You are a golf or or something. Yeah, look,
Speaker 1: I love spending time with my kids, so um, you know,
Speaker 1: being able a chance to spend some time with them.
Speaker 1: They're less enthusiastic now than they used to be, and
Speaker 1: they're little about that. But I'll take what I get.
Speaker 1: Did they tell him? They tell their friends who you are.
Speaker 1: They don't want to tell. So when I was announced
Speaker 1: the CEO, I knew it was going to happen. I
Speaker 1: called up my duke son and I zip didn't pick
Speaker 1: up as usual, and I said, please call me um,
Speaker 1: and I get it. He didn't pick up. No, No,
Speaker 1: I didn't pick up. He send a mess about I'm busy.
Speaker 1: I said, didn't know. Please, I've got some news. Could
Speaker 1: you could you pick up? And he's like, Mum, I
Speaker 1: mean I'm on zoom calls, I'm you know, I'm really busy,
Speaker 1: and he did not pick up. Did not pick you up.
Speaker 1: I ended up having to text him the next morning,
Speaker 1: but it was going to be announced. And then he
Speaker 1: came back to me at the end of the day
Speaker 1: and said, Mum, you were It was a text message,
Speaker 1: it wasn't a call. I said, Mummy, you know you're
Speaker 1: all lived the news today. Are you important or something?
Speaker 1: Dot dot dot dot dot. Thanks for listening to hear
Speaker 1: more of my interviews. You can subscribe and download my
Speaker 1: podcast on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you listen.