WEBVTT - Bars and Sentences 0:00:02.520 --> 0:00:05.640 You are listening and waiting on reparations production of I 0:00:05.760 --> 0:00:11.280 Heart Radio. The idea of abolitions existed a long time 0:00:11.360 --> 0:00:13.760 since before the founding father has been the documents ever 0:00:13.840 --> 0:00:16.000 sence they brought us to this continent along line I 0:00:16.040 --> 0:00:19.000 think it's pondered white Black operation watching bond slide or 0:00:19.040 --> 0:00:21.040 the nick is picking cotton field and to steal we 0:00:21.079 --> 0:00:23.200 said not try to play a catch? Is giving badges 0:00:23.320 --> 0:00:26.000 prison fo all the time? Envision if we prioritize strong 0:00:26.120 --> 0:00:28.800 ties in the neighborhood so that distabler to stop crying 0:00:28.960 --> 0:00:31.400 at the mission of abolition. It's been this for a minute, 0:00:31.440 --> 0:00:34.640 in existance for independence within the margifacts in the alleys 0:00:34.680 --> 0:00:37.000 with our allies and the ballot and power for people 0:00:37.040 --> 0:00:44.640 we find received free for our time. Hey dope, knife, 0:00:44.840 --> 0:00:49.199 I'm lingua franca. We are waiting on reparation. Hurry up. 0:00:50.120 --> 0:00:53.400 So how you been this week, bron Man, I've been 0:00:53.600 --> 0:00:58.000 busy as what my bad, Joe. They're still popping off 0:00:58.080 --> 0:01:01.960 Memorial Day fireworks outside the crib, like right outside the window, 0:01:02.240 --> 0:01:05.800 because what way to better honor the troops then induce 0:01:06.600 --> 0:01:11.760 PTSD reactions by firing explosives into the sky. I'm in 0:01:11.800 --> 0:01:15.039 the hood right now. So I'm hoping this all fireworks. 0:01:15.200 --> 0:01:17.600 But anyway, what are we what are we talking about today? 0:01:18.280 --> 0:01:23.040 So people was going down today. We're talking about the 0:01:24.040 --> 0:01:30.080 election of progressive prosecutor Larry Krasner. Um. He was up 0:01:30.080 --> 0:01:32.800 for re election two weeks ago and so, and it's 0:01:32.880 --> 0:01:35.479 kind of the de facto like figurehead of the progressive 0:01:35.520 --> 0:01:40.040 prosecutor movement and so, um he recently was featured in 0:01:40.440 --> 0:01:44.400 a documentary, a little docuseries by PPS. Is that how 0:01:44.480 --> 0:01:47.120 you heard of him? I was aware of his work 0:01:47.720 --> 0:01:50.040 like over the last couple of years, but um, I 0:01:50.120 --> 0:01:55.000 think he's he's gained increasing popularity and like his work 0:01:55.080 --> 0:01:58.560 has drawn increasing awareness through this documentary that recently came out. 0:01:58.960 --> 0:02:01.840 And then yeah, he just eased reelection UM two weeks ago. 0:02:01.920 --> 0:02:05.640 And so we're gonna talk a little bit about progressive prosecutors, 0:02:06.200 --> 0:02:10.760 what d A. Krasner has done up in Philly. Um, 0:02:11.040 --> 0:02:15.480 some of the dynamics of his reelection uh campaign and 0:02:15.800 --> 0:02:18.959 UH and then look at the impacts that das have 0:02:19.080 --> 0:02:21.480 had on some rappers that we know in love. We'll 0:02:21.480 --> 0:02:24.280 talk about the musical relationship that rappers have had with 0:02:24.480 --> 0:02:27.440 the d A's office and as well as go into 0:02:27.520 --> 0:02:32.600 some real life examples of the adversarial nature between rappers 0:02:32.840 --> 0:02:36.760 and prosecutors. So I know about the work that you 0:02:36.840 --> 0:02:40.480 did with the district attorney and Athens back in December, 0:02:40.639 --> 0:02:44.760 but what's your usual interaction with district attorneys. Well, we 0:02:44.960 --> 0:02:47.280 both you and I we got out and we canvassed 0:02:47.400 --> 0:02:52.120 for Debre Gonzalez, the progressive district attorney in A two 0:02:52.200 --> 0:02:56.920 thousand in December two thousand, twenty UM. And so, uh, 0:02:57.720 --> 0:02:59.280 we're gonna talk a little bit about like what a 0:02:59.360 --> 0:03:01.919 d A does as what what does it matter for 0:03:01.960 --> 0:03:06.679 criminal justice reform um? But uh, right now, as we 0:03:06.760 --> 0:03:09.679 work on the city budget, she is the d a's 0:03:09.720 --> 0:03:13.160 office has requested I think like hundred seventy four thousand 0:03:13.200 --> 0:03:18.280 dollars increase in the budget recommendations for all these new programs, 0:03:18.320 --> 0:03:20.000 all this new stuff, and it's inciting a lot of 0:03:20.040 --> 0:03:23.679 conversation among myself and my fellow leftist commissioners about you know, 0:03:23.760 --> 0:03:27.720 we've been in this moment of like realizing that public 0:03:27.760 --> 0:03:30.560 safety starts outside of the cars rool system. It starts 0:03:30.639 --> 0:03:33.959 before the police arrived, It starts before you get to 0:03:34.080 --> 0:03:36.400 the District Attorney's office, where they're slapping you with charges 0:03:36.440 --> 0:03:40.160 and whatnot. And so ultimately, and we'll as we'll sort 0:03:40.160 --> 0:03:41.720 of lay out in our definition of what a d 0:03:41.840 --> 0:03:45.400 A does in a moment. You know, these people are prosecutors. 0:03:45.440 --> 0:03:48.360 These people are tasked with like deciding if people go 0:03:48.560 --> 0:03:51.400 to jail and for how long, and you know, what 0:03:51.480 --> 0:03:54.200 their bail is and all this kind of stuff, and so, uh, 0:03:54.480 --> 0:03:59.440 like there's been some hesitance to invest additional resources into 0:03:59.520 --> 0:04:01.880 an office that ultimately it's progressive as it wants to be, 0:04:02.040 --> 0:04:05.480 it's still about putting people in jail, law enforce. Well. Yeah, 0:04:05.600 --> 0:04:08.880 you know something that I noticed, um when looking up 0:04:08.920 --> 0:04:12.400 things with the music is like as you as people 0:04:12.520 --> 0:04:17.320 see within hip hop, a lot of the the regard 0:04:17.600 --> 0:04:20.400 that people that that the d A has had has 0:04:20.480 --> 0:04:25.600 almost been identical to that that the police have, like 0:04:26.000 --> 0:04:28.160 like identical, you know, I mean almost to the point 0:04:28.200 --> 0:04:31.240 where their reference in the same sentence usually you know, right, 0:04:31.520 --> 0:04:35.640 parole officers, district attorneys, police, they're all sort of like 0:04:35.960 --> 0:04:39.640 a part of the system. And as layman, as people 0:04:39.880 --> 0:04:42.560 you know, listeners who may not be involved in the 0:04:42.600 --> 0:04:45.320 criminal dostice system, if you don't have a criminal background 0:04:45.440 --> 0:04:48.760 or have family members or friends that do. You might 0:04:48.920 --> 0:04:52.160 may not like peg a d A or someone like 0:04:52.320 --> 0:04:56.200 that as like the villain and the story as clearly 0:04:56.320 --> 0:04:58.520 as as the police, where we see these images of 0:04:58.600 --> 0:05:02.480 police like brutal as people, etcetera becausin and and I 0:05:02.680 --> 0:05:05.040 I say it's a false equivalency to say, you know, 0:05:05.200 --> 0:05:07.120 a d A is just as bad as the cops, 0:05:07.200 --> 0:05:09.440 because the cops are the ones that give them all 0:05:09.520 --> 0:05:11.880 these cases that they didn't have to prosecute in the 0:05:11.960 --> 0:05:15.640 first place. Are they supposed like so they're like they're 0:05:15.720 --> 0:05:20.120 not supposed to have that's well, obviously they're not supposed 0:05:20.160 --> 0:05:22.120 to have that relationship. They have to work together, but 0:05:22.200 --> 0:05:26.040 they're supposed to be like separate things, right, separate entities 0:05:26.120 --> 0:05:28.840 like the d a's office and the police department, right Like, 0:05:28.920 --> 0:05:31.320 it's not supposed to be like law and order where 0:05:31.360 --> 0:05:33.920 they're kind of like one big unit together exactly. The 0:05:34.000 --> 0:05:37.560 police like bring somebody in on certain charges and then 0:05:37.600 --> 0:05:40.960 they decide whether to pursue those charges or dismiss them, 0:05:41.640 --> 0:05:45.280 you know, potential sentences, negotiating clean bargains, all that kind 0:05:45.279 --> 0:05:47.640 of stuff. And so d as have typically run on 0:05:47.720 --> 0:05:50.400 like tough on crime stands up like colluding with the police. 0:05:50.440 --> 0:05:52.760 Were like round them all up and let's lock them 0:05:52.800 --> 0:05:54.240 all up in your life and get them off the 0:05:54.279 --> 0:05:58.320 streets forever. And so both here and up in Philly 0:05:58.520 --> 0:06:01.800 there and across the country. Um, there's this movement of 0:06:01.880 --> 0:06:03.760 people who are coming in to try to reform the 0:06:03.839 --> 0:06:07.760 system from the inside by you know, it's not pursuing 0:06:08.440 --> 0:06:14.640 low level crimes, you know, or prosecuting them more lenient sentences, 0:06:14.800 --> 0:06:19.360 more rehabilitative or restorative justice techniques to actually help people 0:06:19.480 --> 0:06:23.440 get reintegrated into society after they have committed a crime. Um. 0:06:23.800 --> 0:06:26.719 But ultimately to me, and this has been my struggle 0:06:26.800 --> 0:06:29.280 recently with deciding whether or not to like better from 0:06:29.279 --> 0:06:31.919 the day's office is like that hundred seventy four thousand 0:06:31.960 --> 0:06:34.279 dollars could also go into programs that would prevent people 0:06:34.279 --> 0:06:36.120 from getting picked up by the cops in the first place, 0:06:36.600 --> 0:06:39.680 similar to like, similar to like the logic of defund 0:06:40.240 --> 0:06:43.280 like their cops arrived when the crime has already happened, 0:06:43.360 --> 0:06:46.000 but like if there had been a program in place 0:06:46.080 --> 0:06:48.240 to help support the person that committed the crime, they 0:06:48.839 --> 0:06:51.159 why do you need the cops for? Similarly, I feel 0:06:51.200 --> 0:06:56.960 similarly about about district attorneys. But um, there's it's it's 0:06:56.960 --> 0:06:59.040 a hard calculus, and we're gonna get into this more 0:06:59.120 --> 0:07:02.320 throughout the episode. But um, let's go ahead and hit 0:07:02.360 --> 0:07:13.040 the job and we'll see you all in a second. So, 0:07:13.120 --> 0:07:16.440 a district attorney is the chief prosecutor representing the US 0:07:16.520 --> 0:07:20.160 state and the local government area, typically a county. The 0:07:20.240 --> 0:07:23.520 prosecution is a legal party responsible for presenting the case 0:07:23.680 --> 0:07:27.600 against an individual suspective of breaking the law, initiating and 0:07:27.720 --> 0:07:32.800 directing further criminal investigations, guiding and recommending sentences for offenders, 0:07:33.080 --> 0:07:35.480 and are the only attorneys allowed to participate in the 0:07:35.560 --> 0:07:39.960 grand jury proceedings. The prosecutors decide what criminal charges to 0:07:40.040 --> 0:07:43.040 bring and when and where a person will answer those 0:07:43.120 --> 0:07:46.400 charges and carrying out their duties, Prosecutors have authority to 0:07:46.520 --> 0:07:50.960 investigate persons, grant immunity to witnesses, and accuse criminals, and 0:07:51.080 --> 0:07:54.400 plea bargain with defendants. So, for example, when we talk 0:07:54.440 --> 0:07:57.880 and think about like prosecutors decide what criminal charges to bring. 0:07:58.040 --> 0:07:59.920 A recent example here in Athens, there was a guy 0:08:00.520 --> 0:08:03.560 who got into a domestic dispute with his girlfriend, wouldn't 0:08:03.600 --> 0:08:05.280 leave her house or wouldn't let her leave the house 0:08:05.400 --> 0:08:07.920 or something like that. So the district attorney's office how 0:08:07.960 --> 0:08:10.680 to decide whether to charge him with kidnapping, which has 0:08:10.720 --> 0:08:14.600 a mandatory life sentence, or false imprisondent, which is like 0:08:14.720 --> 0:08:17.040 ten to fifteen years. So those are the kinds of 0:08:17.120 --> 0:08:20.680 decisions they're making about people that get picked up by 0:08:20.720 --> 0:08:23.360 the cops with regards to you know, the charges, and 0:08:23.400 --> 0:08:26.040 then it follows the impact on their sentencing whether the 0:08:26.120 --> 0:08:27.920 person who got in a fight with a girlfriend is 0:08:27.960 --> 0:08:31.440 going to jail for life or ten to fifteen years 0:08:31.920 --> 0:08:35.400 if convicted, you know, found guilty for the crime. Well, 0:08:35.440 --> 0:08:37.679 here's a question. This might not be something that you know, 0:08:37.840 --> 0:08:43.880 but is there like any sort of like a checker 0:08:44.160 --> 0:08:47.040 of the d A? Like is there anyone that checks 0:08:47.280 --> 0:08:50.199 why they present certain charges the cases? I mean, obviously 0:08:50.280 --> 0:08:52.720 you can't do everything in real time on the day 0:08:52.760 --> 0:08:54.719 that every case is filed. Was there any any sort 0:08:54.760 --> 0:08:57.880 of process that goes back and and looks after that 0:08:57.960 --> 0:09:01.439 sort of thing? I would say there's probably not a 0:09:01.840 --> 0:09:07.120 formal like role within the office or within the criminal 0:09:07.240 --> 0:09:10.839 justice system more broadly that is, like checking the d A. 0:09:11.400 --> 0:09:13.240 I mean, I guess it would just be something after 0:09:13.320 --> 0:09:15.760 the fact, like after scandal or something that you would 0:09:15.840 --> 0:09:17.880 check it sure and so what so what r d 0:09:18.000 --> 0:09:20.320 A has been doing? And I believe something that Larry 0:09:20.400 --> 0:09:24.000 Krasner has done extensively in his tenure in office is 0:09:24.240 --> 0:09:27.400 reviewing is case review, so looking back at the sentence 0:09:27.440 --> 0:09:32.080 thing that happened before they came in and determining, uh, 0:09:32.520 --> 0:09:35.880 you know, fairness, like is this is there any discrepancies 0:09:35.920 --> 0:09:38.800 based on race across like the data on who has 0:09:38.880 --> 0:09:42.520 been sentenced in for how long? Um? Was there any 0:09:42.600 --> 0:09:46.360 sort of misconduct in the way the trial was was undertaken, 0:09:47.160 --> 0:09:49.560 um and so and and and and a lot of times, 0:09:49.640 --> 0:09:51.280 I mean, we haven't had a case here yet, but 0:09:51.480 --> 0:09:55.080 often in other municipalities we find that people get exonerated. 0:09:55.240 --> 0:09:57.360 It turns out that like, actually this is sucked up 0:09:57.440 --> 0:10:00.400 that uh, they were sent to jail for this and 0:10:00.520 --> 0:10:02.800 for this long and they actually end up getting out. 0:10:03.360 --> 0:10:07.520 So district attorneys can check the work of previous of 0:10:07.640 --> 0:10:10.959 their predecessors. But in terms of an existing check on 0:10:11.080 --> 0:10:14.040 that office, I'm not really sure. I'm not really sure 0:10:14.040 --> 0:10:17.480 if there exists outside of like public accountability and then 0:10:17.520 --> 0:10:21.079 like public defenders, you know, who worked to defend the 0:10:21.200 --> 0:10:25.440 folks that are brought before the prosecution, um perhaps having 0:10:25.520 --> 0:10:27.800 some role in and like taking a look at how 0:10:27.840 --> 0:10:32.440 they're deciding criminal charges and sentencing and trying to weigh 0:10:32.520 --> 0:10:36.880 in against that if it's unfair. But yeah, across the country, 0:10:37.320 --> 0:10:40.439 there's been a lot of reform minded prosecutors setting a 0:10:40.480 --> 0:10:43.920 new precedent of winning elections on platforms committed to both 0:10:43.960 --> 0:10:48.160 public safety and reducing mass incarceration. Uh, Folks within this 0:10:48.240 --> 0:10:51.480 quote unquote progressive prosecutor movement have pursued a range of 0:10:51.559 --> 0:10:56.120 policies including using diversion and treatment programs as alternatives for 0:10:56.240 --> 0:11:00.880 your people convicted for drug related crimes, refew using to 0:11:01.040 --> 0:11:03.520 prosecute crisis brought by officers with a history of this 0:11:03.640 --> 0:11:08.000 honesty or unreliability, and then reducing prosecutions for lower level crimes. 0:11:08.559 --> 0:11:10.199 So this is like a wave that's been sweeping the 0:11:10.280 --> 0:11:14.440 country in recent years, with the probably probably the most 0:11:14.480 --> 0:11:18.360 prominent figure in this movement being Larry Krassner, who was 0:11:18.400 --> 0:11:21.720 elected to fill as Philadelphia's district turning into thousand seventeen. 0:11:22.040 --> 0:11:25.000 Prior to seeking the district attorney seat, he worked as 0:11:25.000 --> 0:11:28.120 a criminal defense lawyer in Philadelphia for about thirty years, 0:11:28.200 --> 0:11:33.560 specializing in civil rights, frequently representing protesters that's Black Lives Matter, 0:11:33.880 --> 0:11:37.240 Occupy Philadelphia protesters. He would do a pro bono so 0:11:37.360 --> 0:11:40.120 that earned him that anti establishment cred. When he was 0:11:40.160 --> 0:11:43.920 a candidate in seventeen, Mr Krassner announced his first run 0:11:44.000 --> 0:11:47.439 after Donald J. Trump's presidential inauguration, and his promised to 0:11:47.480 --> 0:11:51.520 stop prosecuting drug possession and prostitution and to hold police 0:11:51.520 --> 0:11:56.080 accountable for misconduct attracted a coalition of young progressives, labor unions, 0:11:56.120 --> 0:11:59.360 and moderate black voters behind him that boosted him to victory. 0:11:59.640 --> 0:12:01.319 It's I mean, and he had kind of had like 0:12:01.480 --> 0:12:04.760 the the cred, the track record to back it up. 0:12:04.920 --> 0:12:07.000 You know, when he was talking about holding place accountable, 0:12:07.480 --> 0:12:11.000 he had sued the police for civil rights violation seventy 0:12:11.080 --> 0:12:14.439 five times prior to his run for office. So he 0:12:14.520 --> 0:12:19.079 had the bona fides, I guess to bring out young progressive, 0:12:19.200 --> 0:12:22.400 bring out black folks, bring out people in the labor 0:12:22.480 --> 0:12:26.240 movement to support him because like he had previously walked 0:12:26.280 --> 0:12:28.120 the talk. Yeah, he showed them that he had the 0:12:28.200 --> 0:12:31.319 experience to like actually get the ship done. Yeah. And 0:12:31.400 --> 0:12:33.839 then Yeah, indeed, during his first term in office, he 0:12:34.120 --> 0:12:38.760 ended criminal charges against those caught with pot ended cash 0:12:38.840 --> 0:12:42.960 bail for minor misdemeanors and non violent felonies, pursued reduced 0:12:43.040 --> 0:12:47.040 supervision for parolees, and sought more lenient sentences for certain crimes, 0:12:47.080 --> 0:12:50.240 and even wouldn't given the opportunity to climbing to the 0:12:50.320 --> 0:12:53.880 death penalty in capital cases. Um and as a result 0:12:53.960 --> 0:12:56.160 of all these efforts to phil DA's offices lower the 0:12:56.240 --> 0:12:57.840 number of people in the city's jail by more than 0:12:58.880 --> 0:13:01.599 and cut the city's appropriate rules by a third. This 0:13:01.679 --> 0:13:04.439 workers are in Krasner the support of Philadelphia based and 0:13:04.600 --> 0:13:08.640 raised rapper Meek Mill, who talked about on the show before, 0:13:09.000 --> 0:13:12.559 and who's had a couple agressions with Krasner's office following 0:13:12.640 --> 0:13:16.800 Meek's own charges incarceration in probation. Throughout the early two 0:13:16.840 --> 0:13:20.760 thousands and two thousand tens, Meek co founded the Reform Alliance, 0:13:21.000 --> 0:13:24.400 a project dedicated to getting one million people off probation, 0:13:24.559 --> 0:13:27.640 and has since been very outspoken about probation reform, having 0:13:27.720 --> 0:13:31.560 experienced at firsthand the way the terms of probation hindered 0:13:31.640 --> 0:13:34.959 his own rehabilitation. In addition to tweets and support of 0:13:35.000 --> 0:13:38.440 Krasner's reelection, Meek could also deny the purported link between 0:13:38.520 --> 0:13:41.880 Krasner's policies and the spike and gun crime at Philadelphia. 0:13:42.440 --> 0:13:45.600 He said, Larry Krasner did not put three thousand ghost 0:13:45.679 --> 0:13:48.000 guns and phillies and is not to blame for the 0:13:48.160 --> 0:13:50.920 rising murder rate. We don't do three D printing in 0:13:50.960 --> 0:13:53.920 the hood. So something happened, Meek tweeted back in April. 0:13:54.320 --> 0:13:56.439 A good point. I mean it's like, what are you thinking, Like, 0:13:56.520 --> 0:13:58.840 where are you gotta a dress? Where the guns are 0:13:58.880 --> 0:14:02.319 coming from the coming from the d A's office. But 0:14:02.920 --> 0:14:07.040 we'll get more into that, uh in a second. Krasner's 0:14:07.080 --> 0:14:08.839 work has also been praised by the a c l U, 0:14:09.240 --> 0:14:12.040 particularly the work of a Sentencing Integrity Union, which has 0:14:12.080 --> 0:14:16.520 exonerated twenty innocent people who combined lost hundreds of years 0:14:16.559 --> 0:14:20.160 of their lives in prison during his three plus years 0:14:20.320 --> 0:14:22.960 as d A. As well the a c l U 0:14:23.120 --> 0:14:25.680 s opine, none of his predecessors has been as committed 0:14:25.680 --> 0:14:29.040 to rooting out violent cops Krasner see, for example, the 0:14:29.080 --> 0:14:31.920 Philly DA's office taking a case to the Pennsylvania Supreme 0:14:32.400 --> 0:14:35.640 Court challenging the Commonwealth use of force law in a 0:14:35.720 --> 0:14:39.800 case stemming from the prosecution of officer Ryan Pannell, who 0:14:39.880 --> 0:14:42.400 shot and killed David Jones as he fled from the officer. 0:14:43.000 --> 0:14:46.440 So he's cracking down on cracking down on violent cops, 0:14:47.440 --> 0:14:51.240 exonerating and I said, people letting people out of jail, 0:14:51.360 --> 0:14:53.720 Well that are in there for low level crimes or 0:14:54.720 --> 0:14:57.760 lessening the burden of probation on folks that are you know, 0:14:57.840 --> 0:15:01.400 doing quote unquote community supervision. Sounds great, right, Well, we're 0:15:01.640 --> 0:15:04.360 still in the pandemic. So, you know, during his tenure 0:15:04.480 --> 0:15:08.000 in the last year, especially homicide and gun violence in Philadelphia, 0:15:08.040 --> 0:15:11.680 they're on rising levels not seen since the nineties. Skyrocketing 0:15:11.760 --> 0:15:14.920 homicide ray resulting from the pandemic has now created public 0:15:15.000 --> 0:15:18.000 cries for making more rest and getting killers off the streets. 0:15:18.480 --> 0:15:21.120 So we're talking about people were people are saying, oh, 0:15:21.280 --> 0:15:23.680 this guy is leaning on crime, he's letting people out 0:15:23.720 --> 0:15:26.360 of jail. He was not prosecuting people, and that's why 0:15:26.520 --> 0:15:29.640 gun violence is spiking in the city. So the police 0:15:29.640 --> 0:15:33.880 seized upon this pandemic driven rise in crime to promote Mr. 0:15:33.960 --> 0:15:38.560 Krasner's opponent, Carlos Vega. Vega and assistant d A. Hu 0:15:38.640 --> 0:15:42.120 Krasner or former sist in da Hu Krassner fired upon 0:15:42.200 --> 0:15:45.920 taking office two thousand eighteen. However, criminologists have said it 0:15:45.960 --> 0:15:49.080 would be impossible to substantiate the claim that Krastner's policies 0:15:49.160 --> 0:15:51.720 had led to more gun crime, with gun violence has 0:15:51.840 --> 0:15:55.120 risen sharply in many cities at last year, regardless of 0:15:55.160 --> 0:15:58.760 whether their prosecutors were considered progressive. So, I mean, I 0:15:58.840 --> 0:16:01.680 don't I don't understand how people are like pointing at 0:16:02.720 --> 0:16:08.200 like anything that was happening post pandemic to like as 0:16:08.240 --> 0:16:11.600 an explanation for the rising crime. Like the pandemic hit, 0:16:12.000 --> 0:16:15.480 the economy took a hit, and there's mad guns in 0:16:15.520 --> 0:16:18.640 the country, So like, what do people expect is gonna happen. 0:16:18.840 --> 0:16:23.280 That's not like the result of a progressive district attorney, obviously, 0:16:23.440 --> 0:16:26.240 It's just it's like a stupid you know, it's like 0:16:26.280 --> 0:16:29.280 a stupid explanation. And my view is that for every 0:16:29.320 --> 0:16:32.600 person we incarceor rate, we create another criminal. For every 0:16:32.720 --> 0:16:36.160 father we take out of a home and put behind bars, 0:16:36.680 --> 0:16:39.960 that's another child that's gonna become destabilized because they lost 0:16:40.000 --> 0:16:42.680 a breadwinner, because they lost a mentor, and now that 0:16:42.760 --> 0:16:45.760 kid's gonna go out and start robbing people and shooting people, 0:16:46.360 --> 0:16:48.760 or like looking for supports outside the home because he 0:16:48.840 --> 0:16:51.080 no longer has one of his parents and it's gonna 0:16:51.120 --> 0:16:53.280 start rolling with the gang or rolling with folks. You know, 0:16:53.520 --> 0:16:55.640 let's go around breaking in the houses. Oh, let's go 0:16:55.680 --> 0:17:00.560 shopping and um. You know every time uh mother loses 0:17:00.600 --> 0:17:04.280 a son to the car stool system. Uh, you know 0:17:04.920 --> 0:17:09.040 that that drives that drives um, alcoholism, that drives drug addiction, 0:17:09.080 --> 0:17:12.000 that drives hopelessness in despair, that then forces people to 0:17:12.080 --> 0:17:15.600 turn to more crime. So, you know, on the one hand, 0:17:15.640 --> 0:17:17.199 we have people saying, oh, you let people back off 0:17:17.200 --> 0:17:20.080 the streets where they're reoffending. At the same time, I 0:17:20.119 --> 0:17:22.000 think that every time you put someone away, were further 0:17:22.080 --> 0:17:25.560 to stabilizing a community. Quite taking away a family member 0:17:25.640 --> 0:17:29.399 or a friend, or a breadwinner or colleague employee, you 0:17:29.480 --> 0:17:36.800 know whatever, that ultimately drives crime further exactly. But yeah, So, 0:17:36.920 --> 0:17:39.600 the Fraternal Order of Police, the union that represents fourteen 0:17:39.640 --> 0:17:42.720 thousand current and retired officers in the city of Philadelphia, 0:17:43.400 --> 0:17:45.800 has thrown everything they have at d a craft and 0:17:45.920 --> 0:17:48.800 an attempt to oust him, and even when so far 0:17:48.920 --> 0:17:51.440 as to park a soft serve ice cream truck outside 0:17:51.440 --> 0:17:55.080 the District Attorney's office to emphasize that Mr. Krasner had 0:17:55.119 --> 0:17:58.680 been soft on crime, which I love, I love, I love, 0:17:58.880 --> 0:18:02.920 I love Larry's respond In response, Mr Krasner's campaign released 0:18:02.920 --> 0:18:05.959 a statement of support from Ben Cohen of Ben and Jerry's. 0:18:08.440 --> 0:18:11.960 The unions given hundreds of thousands of dollars to Krasner's 0:18:12.000 --> 0:18:16.560 opponent and has encouraged Republican voters to register as Democrat 0:18:16.720 --> 0:18:20.360 in order to vote Krasner out of the Democratic primary. Yeah, 0:18:20.440 --> 0:18:24.640 so Vega was running against Krasner in a Democratic primary. 0:18:24.720 --> 0:18:28.680 It's like I think, uh uh, Democrats out number of 0:18:28.680 --> 0:18:30.880 Republicans in the city of Philadelphia like seven to one. 0:18:31.200 --> 0:18:34.560 So whoever wins the primary, usually it's gonna it's gonna 0:18:34.560 --> 0:18:38.919 be the d A. Yeah. Yeah. So. Krasner's attractive criticism 0:18:39.080 --> 0:18:41.800 from the left too. He's basically been called by the 0:18:41.880 --> 0:18:44.639 A C. L you for backing away from his promise 0:18:44.680 --> 0:18:48.479 to eliminate cash bail to stop holding juveniles and adult jails. 0:18:49.080 --> 0:18:52.560 His prosecutors routinely seek to detain people and have been 0:18:52.640 --> 0:18:55.600 asking judges to issue bail orders of a million dollars 0:18:55.640 --> 0:18:59.240 against certain defendants. Once a huge proponent of ending cash 0:18:59.280 --> 0:19:01.960 bill for many offenses during his first term, he actually 0:19:02.000 --> 0:19:05.560 criticized judges for settling bill too low for gun crimes. 0:19:06.040 --> 0:19:09.440 On juvenile justice front, virtually the same number of youth 0:19:09.480 --> 0:19:12.280 are being charged with adults is before Krasner became district 0:19:12.280 --> 0:19:16.000 attorney do in large parts of Pennsylvania's direct file law, 0:19:16.320 --> 0:19:19.320 which requires that young people accused of certain crimes start 0:19:19.400 --> 0:19:23.720 in adult court. So an additional critique I was leveraged 0:19:23.760 --> 0:19:26.520 by Ernest Owens, who wrote in Philly mag as a 0:19:26.560 --> 0:19:28.840 black queer progressive who was called for the defunding of 0:19:28.880 --> 0:19:32.800 the police. I find Krasner's performative wokeness, a pattern of 0:19:32.880 --> 0:19:35.600 behavior in which he spends more time acting self righteous 0:19:35.640 --> 0:19:40.040 on social issues than achieving progressive goals, distracts from the casts. 0:19:40.080 --> 0:19:42.639 I believe it for starters, the concept of being a 0:19:42.680 --> 0:19:46.919 progressive prosecutor is oxymoronic. Prosecutors, just like the police, are 0:19:46.960 --> 0:19:50.080 part of a flawed system that incarcerates people. Prosecutors are 0:19:50.119 --> 0:19:53.119 committed to convicting people. That's the job. Whether a d 0:19:53.240 --> 0:19:55.399 a's office decides to offer less to charges or not. 0:19:56.119 --> 0:19:58.679 The idea that it can served as a progressive institution 0:19:58.800 --> 0:20:02.600 is patently false. I would never consider a police commissioner progressive. 0:20:03.440 --> 0:20:06.040 Regardless of how many reforms commissioners may plan to make, 0:20:06.400 --> 0:20:09.920 they're still operating within an oppressive system. What makes the 0:20:10.000 --> 0:20:12.719 d A's office any different gave it the institution's longstanding 0:20:13.200 --> 0:20:15.920 history of criminal injustice to poor black and brown people. 0:20:16.359 --> 0:20:18.320 This next part kind of gets at what they reveal 0:20:18.359 --> 0:20:21.200 a lot through the documentaries to the docuseries, which I 0:20:21.200 --> 0:20:24.639 actually did watch some of recently. Ernest continued, as much 0:20:24.680 --> 0:20:26.639 as Krasner would like to pretend the calls for more 0:20:26.720 --> 0:20:29.119 law and order are only coming from Trump or the 0:20:29.160 --> 0:20:32.320 Fraternal Order of Police, they're also coming from the black 0:20:32.359 --> 0:20:35.280 and brown communities he claims to be listening to. In 0:20:35.359 --> 0:20:38.720 the PBS documentary following Krafsner's first term, a black mother 0:20:38.800 --> 0:20:42.560 expresses rifle rage at Krasner after his office frees the 0:20:42.600 --> 0:20:47.240 man who killed her teenage son because investigators accessed incriminating 0:20:47.320 --> 0:20:51.520 evidence without a warrant. So, and then there's another example 0:20:51.560 --> 0:20:54.959 from the documentary where the certain members of the family 0:20:55.040 --> 0:20:58.879 of a Slatin police officer wanted Krassner to pursue the 0:20:59.000 --> 0:21:03.359 death penalty for his murderer, and he had he had, 0:21:03.520 --> 0:21:06.879 you know, running a pledge of not pursuing the of 0:21:07.240 --> 0:21:09.639 the death penalty, and so ultimately he kind of went 0:21:09.720 --> 0:21:13.600 against not what some of the victims family wanted. Yeah, 0:21:13.800 --> 0:21:16.000 and these are black and brown and low income people 0:21:16.040 --> 0:21:19.080 that live in Philadelphia. It's one of those things that 0:21:19.160 --> 0:21:21.879 it's like, you know, people aren't a monolith, and like, 0:21:22.080 --> 0:21:26.040 not everybody, you know, not everybody is as a tied 0:21:26.119 --> 0:21:31.600 to ideology is like has like us sometimes get when 0:21:31.600 --> 0:21:33.880 we're in our bubbles of like dealing with other people 0:21:33.960 --> 0:21:36.400 who are as political as we are all the time, 0:21:36.640 --> 0:21:38.800 you know what I mean, you forget that like some people. Yeah, 0:21:38.840 --> 0:21:41.119 I mean and and like I like we all. I 0:21:41.200 --> 0:21:45.320 think we all struggle with a desire for vengeance, you know, 0:21:45.680 --> 0:21:50.560 and we have very deeply socialized into us conceptions of 0:21:50.680 --> 0:21:53.280 what justices and it often means making the person that 0:21:53.400 --> 0:21:57.240 hurt you suffer. Um. And so I don't think we 0:21:57.280 --> 0:21:59.760 can even blame people for like turning to that in 0:22:00.000 --> 0:22:02.240 their most in their darkest moments when they've lost a 0:22:02.280 --> 0:22:06.080 member of their family. Um, because that's what we're taught 0:22:06.240 --> 0:22:08.800 all our lives, that justices, and so grappling with that, 0:22:09.560 --> 0:22:11.159 like what does it mean for us to listen to 0:22:11.240 --> 0:22:13.440 those voices to center those voices in the work that 0:22:13.520 --> 0:22:17.040 we do. Even if we disagree with this orientation towards 0:22:17.119 --> 0:22:22.320 punishment and revenge as as as um means of justice 0:22:23.080 --> 0:22:25.240 is something that he has to grapple with and we 0:22:25.280 --> 0:22:27.040 all have to grapple with in this in this work 0:22:27.080 --> 0:22:30.760 of criminal justice reform. I mean, it's it's definitely a 0:22:30.840 --> 0:22:33.840 tough job. I can definitely see how it could uh 0:22:35.960 --> 0:22:40.960 be conflicting for somebody who who is you know, stepping 0:22:41.040 --> 0:22:46.520 into like that role and maybe they have uh, you know, 0:22:47.160 --> 0:22:49.879 of view and a philosophy. That's one way. But just 0:22:50.119 --> 0:22:53.359 like being part of that machine requires you to have 0:22:53.480 --> 0:22:56.480 to make decisions that you know what I mean, just 0:22:56.720 --> 0:22:59.240 fundamentally you're gonna put you be, make you be opposed 0:22:59.280 --> 0:23:02.560 to what you or wise would would be cool with, 0:23:02.840 --> 0:23:04.280 you know what I mean. It's it's one of those 0:23:04.320 --> 0:23:06.600