Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to WIKA F Daily with
Speaker 1: Me your Girl Danielle Moody recording from the Brooklyn Bunker. Folks,
Speaker 1: I'm really excited to bring you our monthly series, Make
Speaker 1: It Walk, with our friend Mark Thompson, who is the
Speaker 1: host of Make It Plain, another DCP entertainment podcast. And
Speaker 1: the reason why I'm excited about this month's conversation with
Speaker 1: Mark because he's doing something really exciting on his show,
Speaker 1: which is using the twenty eight days, you know, the
Speaker 1: shortest fucking month of the year for Black History Month,
Speaker 1: to bring listeners in for fifteen minutes a day on
Speaker 1: facts and history and interesting things that we can discuss
Speaker 1: during Black History. I think that what often gets lost,
Speaker 1: particularly in America, is like white people have picked five
Speaker 1: Black people that you can talk about for twenty eight
Speaker 1: days and then that's about it. And what Mark and
Speaker 1: I get into in our conversation today is that Black
Speaker 1: history isn't just within the borders of the United States.
Speaker 1: Black history is rich. Black history is diasporic, right like
Speaker 1: it is the world. And so we will talk about Egypt,
Speaker 1: we will talk about our history and first civilizations, things
Speaker 1: that are missing. Frankly from our regular history and discourse. Right,
Speaker 1: things that are being erased, even the small things that
Speaker 1: we have gained over many centuries as black people, and
Speaker 1: in the public school system, things are being erased. And
Speaker 1: so it's a really great time, folks. And I tell
Speaker 1: you that for me, Black History is three hundred and
Speaker 1: sixty five days of the year. I'm always trying to
Speaker 1: read new things, watch new things, connect with the different people,
Speaker 1: and bring them to all of you all year around.
Speaker 1: If you notice, if you've been a long time you know,
Speaker 1: listener and watcher of woke f you know that a
Speaker 1: lot of the folks that I bring on from are
Speaker 1: from multiple disciplines, right from multiple industries, and they are
Speaker 1: people of color. And I am intentional about that because
Speaker 1: I think that exposure is necessary. And you know what
Speaker 1: annoys me so much is the fact that you know,
Speaker 1: I will tell you this, My mother got a call
Speaker 1: the other day asking if she would go to a
Speaker 1: high school on Long Island that is predominantly a black
Speaker 1: high school to teach yoga for the students for Black
Speaker 1: History Month. She was asked that question on like February first,
Speaker 1: to do something on that Friday, and my mother opted
Speaker 1: out and it was just like, I'm not going to
Speaker 1: be somebody's token. And if you're really intentional about wanting
Speaker 1: to create something for your students, then why would you
Speaker 1: wait at such a late date. And this is something
Speaker 1: that many black professionals, academics, thought leaders, activists have said,
Speaker 1: is that you have institutions, organizations, corporations that will reach
Speaker 1: out in the eleventh fucking hour every single Black History
Speaker 1: Month to see what they can scramble and do, as
Speaker 1: if it is not the same fucking month every goddamn year.
Speaker 1: If you actually want to be intentional, if you want
Speaker 1: to be inclusive, then miss me with your symbolism around
Speaker 1: Black History Month. Reach out to people you know, I
Speaker 1: don't know, months in advance, like you would do for
Speaker 1: anything else, right, Like, we're not the fucking sloppy leftovers, right,
Speaker 1: the sloppy seconds of this country. And it is insulting
Speaker 1: one to be asked to do things at the last minute,
Speaker 1: and then also to have the audacity to ask us
Speaker 1: to do those things for free, as if this country
Speaker 1: hasn't taken and stolen enough labor. Right. But you know,
Speaker 1: I say all this, folks to say that we are
Speaker 1: no longer and probably we Honestly, we've never been able
Speaker 1: to just rely on institutions to provide us with the
Speaker 1: information that we actually need. We need to go out
Speaker 1: there and grab that information ourselves and spread it far
Speaker 1: and wide. And so I encourage each and every single
Speaker 1: one of you who are dedicated listeners and watchers of
Speaker 1: this show to connect with buy the books of some
Speaker 1: of the folks that mark mentions in our segment together
Speaker 1: coming up in the next couple of weeks. We have
Speaker 1: conversations with so many incredible folks. Buy their books. Right
Speaker 1: particularly now, I think that it's going to be so
Speaker 1: important for us to begin to buy books for one another,
Speaker 1: share them right by. You know, when you think about
Speaker 1: what should I get so and so and oh a
Speaker 1: holiday or a birthday or this is coming up, share knowledge.
Speaker 1: That is where our true power lies. And that is
Speaker 1: how we're going to be able to fight against the
Speaker 1: dark forces of misinformation. Right it is going to have
Speaker 1: We're going to have to be intentional about our learning
Speaker 1: and push away the malaise that these times are bringing
Speaker 1: onto us. Right this, you know, I don't want to
Speaker 1: do anything. I feel languishy, I feel depressed, I feel
Speaker 1: all of these things We're going to have to be
Speaker 1: intentional about the ways in which we treat ourselves and
Speaker 1: the ways in which we want to expand our minds,
Speaker 1: our heart, our imaginations. Right, and so I really hope
Speaker 1: that you guys enjoy my one on one with Mark.
Speaker 1: I think we're referring to this as make It Woke.
Speaker 1: I think it is the best title or plain as Fuck.
Speaker 1: But I love this crossover. I love my conversation with him.
Speaker 1: Please hit me up in the comments sections and let
Speaker 1: me know what you guys think about some of the
Speaker 1: information and history that Mark offers up in this special
Speaker 1: that we are doing monthly. Folks, it is the beginning
Speaker 1: of the month, which means that we are doing our
Speaker 1: crossover episode with our friend Mark Thompson of Make It Plaine,
Speaker 1: one of dcp's political shows. And when we crossover, we
Speaker 1: come up with random names like make It Woke, make
Speaker 1: It Gourmet, make It Woke as Fuck, woken Plane. We
Speaker 1: have no idea, but it is a delightful time to
Speaker 1: be in conversation with my friend. Happy Black History Month
Speaker 1: to you, Mark. How are you just a few days
Speaker 1: into this shortest month of the year. Well, I'm fine.
Speaker 1: I hope you will always a pleasure to do this
Speaker 1: with you. Happy Black History Month to you as well.
Speaker 1: So you are doing something really exciting on Naked Plane
Speaker 1: for the twenty eight days of Black History Month. Now,
Speaker 1: you and I both celebrate Black History all year long.
Speaker 1: But for those folks that are looking to get more
Speaker 1: than the stale Martin Luther quotes, that Martin Luther King
Speaker 1: quotes that are rolled out by white conservatives, then the normal,
Speaker 1: Oh here's Harriet Tubman and Frederick Douglas. Let us roll
Speaker 1: them out, but you know, contextualize them in any way
Speaker 1: or give them the fullness of character that they deserve.
Speaker 1: You were doing something what I think is really informative
Speaker 1: and interesting on Naked Plane. Tell folks what you're up
Speaker 1: to this month. Well, we're doing, and thank you for that.
Speaker 1: We're doing precisely the opposite of that, Danielle, in the
Speaker 1: sense that even when it comes to Black History Month observances,
Speaker 1: our history begins and ends on these shores in America.
Speaker 1: If we're gonna talk about black history, we've got to
Speaker 1: talk about world history. We've got to talk about the
Speaker 1: many aspects of it throughout the diaspora. Black history includes Africa.
Speaker 1: Black history includes the Caribbean, Black history includes South America,
Speaker 1: Black history includes Europe. Over the years that I have
Speaker 1: been on the air at different points, I've kind of
Speaker 1: tried to have a university of airways when it comes
Speaker 1: to Black history and talk. We've had an opportunity of
Speaker 1: the asatuks to some of the most iconic scholars in
Speaker 1: Black history. Unfortunately many of them have passed on, but
Speaker 1: the likes of doctor John Henry Clark, doctor Josef been Yakin,
Speaker 1: and doctor Francis chris Wellsing, doctor Ivan van Serdam and
Speaker 1: doctor Charshi McIntyre and most recently doctor Ronoco Rashidi, who
Speaker 1: passed away last year his expertise and I would encourage
Speaker 1: people to read all of these authors and scholars even
Speaker 1: now and that now that they are ancestors. Reinocco spent
Speaker 1: his life studying the African presence throughout the world, and
Speaker 1: so we have a footprint as African people all over
Speaker 1: the world because we were, after all, the first civilization,
Speaker 1: so everything flows from us. Now. I know some people
Speaker 1: are offended when you say that, but that is just
Speaker 1: a biological, genealogical human fact. Also in that same vein
Speaker 1: what we're focusing on, this, this Black History Month is
Speaker 1: actually the role of Egypt in Black history and African
Speaker 1: history and African American history. Um, many of us know
Speaker 1: about the civil rights movement. I mean, that's the history
Speaker 1: most talked about, slavery, that's the history most talked about,
Speaker 1: Civil War, all of that. But a lot of us
Speaker 1: still have not embraced the reality that the first civilization
Speaker 1: on Earth was an African civilization. It was in Egypt,
Speaker 1: which is what the Greeks called it, but we called
Speaker 1: it kimmitt in the indigenous language of the meta nature.
Speaker 1: And so we're exploring that, and it's really been um profound. Uh.
Speaker 1: Tony Browderum is leading that conversation. Who is really become
Speaker 1: the heir of parents to all these other scholars who
Speaker 1: transition to the ancestry. He leads right now the most
Speaker 1: popular tour of Egypt, historical tour of Egypt. I encourage
Speaker 1: everyone to go on in. He has discovered you know,
Speaker 1: white folks told us that they discovered everything in Egypt, right,
Speaker 1: But they're discovered everything period to the right, right and
Speaker 1: but but he has discovered even more tombs of ancient
Speaker 1: dynasties in antiquity in Egypt and it's the only African
Speaker 1: American doing so to lead these types of excavations, and
Speaker 1: so it's really exciting. Um, and so we're learning about it.
Speaker 1: One thing I'll say, and I think you particularly will
Speaker 1: find this interesting. Um. You know, social media has become
Speaker 1: so ubiquitous in our lives and so many things are
Speaker 1: defined on social media. I'm not real comfortable with that
Speaker 1: because social media alone not making one credible. Okay, just
Speaker 1: you know, scholarship in history, and so they're those who
Speaker 1: use social media to exaggerate their knowledge and credentials, and
Speaker 1: they have invited scrutiny when it comes to issues of
Speaker 1: history and black progress, black thought, black movement, and they've
Speaker 1: even inspired a pejority. I'm sure you've heard people who
Speaker 1: are called hoteps. People like and many of these hoteps.
Speaker 1: This term is often assigned to men who purport to
Speaker 1: be in our freedom movement, but who oftentimes women accused
Speaker 1: of even being sexist. What is unfortunate. We talked about
Speaker 1: this this month. Hotep is a meta natural word. It
Speaker 1: comes from our culture. It means peace, just like Aslama licam.
Speaker 1: It was the name of a great African multi genius,
Speaker 1: the first world multi genius m Hotep, who was the
Speaker 1: father of surgery and medicine in ancient Egypt, in ancient Kimmitt.
Speaker 1: It's really sad that a term indigenous to our people
Speaker 1: in our history, hoteps, has become a pejorative and we
Speaker 1: have made the inn word endearing. So we say when
Speaker 1: we speak with someone neighbors, so that's a hotel. But
Speaker 1: then when we see a friend, oh, that's my nigga.
Speaker 1: So it just goes to show you how we have
Speaker 1: in this culture on these shores which are ours, and
Speaker 1: how we were brought here, how we have managed in
Speaker 1: that assimilation to turn everything upside down on his head.
Speaker 1: We need to figure out a way in Black History
Speaker 1: Month to turn the right side up, you know, Marky
Speaker 1: brop So, I mean so many things. One, I have
Speaker 1: always wanted to go to Egypt. I have always wanted
Speaker 1: to go on an excavation. I don't know, maybe it's
Speaker 1: like that the inner crusade uh in me from growing
Speaker 1: up in you know, in the eighties with all the
Speaker 1: movies that uh that used to come on. But I've
Speaker 1: always wanted to do that because you know, everything that
Speaker 1: you stated is fact, right, like we the birth of
Speaker 1: civilization comes uh comes from from Egypt, from blackness, right,
Speaker 1: and I mean we have always been been taught the opposite.
Speaker 1: But it is through that whitewashing, through that brainwashing, um,
Speaker 1: that we have been removed, displaced, disassociated, disembodied from this history.
Speaker 1: And this is what pains me too about Black History
Speaker 1: Month is at one, it's the shortest month of the year,
Speaker 1: which I just find insulting on its face. But then also,
Speaker 1: you know, we in America have the have the ability
Speaker 1: to just keep having the same cyclical conversations with the
Speaker 1: same characters, as if as if it isn't a global
Speaker 1: as if we aren't a global people, right um. And
Speaker 1: I and I think that too. You know, these these
Speaker 1: uh iterations into different conversations about our ancestry are necessary,
Speaker 1: and especially at a time when we're battling against radical
Speaker 1: right wingers who are doing what they've always done, which
Speaker 1: is whitewash history, which is a remove anything um that
Speaker 1: was discovered, innovated, changed, you know, build upon, or created
Speaker 1: by black indigenous people of color. And so, you know,
Speaker 1: at a time when book banning is now back in vogue,
Speaker 1: where now you're you're seeing curriculums and teachers be threatened
Speaker 1: you know, how how do people engage or how should
Speaker 1: they attempt to engage with this level of understanding? What
Speaker 1: kind of intentionality do you think is necessary in order
Speaker 1: for us not to be swept up in the latest
Speaker 1: white erasure. Well, you know, it's funny. I had a
Speaker 1: friend in the movement called me late last night to
Speaker 1: really raise that question, and he said to me, he said,
Speaker 1: you know, we're fighting on all these fronts voting rights.
Speaker 1: Now we're about to have a big fight around the
Speaker 1: first black woman's Spreme Court nominee, which really shouldn't be
Speaker 1: a fight. And I'll come back to that in a minute.
Speaker 1: And he said, Mark, who is fighting against all of
Speaker 1: the education banning that is going on? And I think
Speaker 1: about it, said, no, you know, no one there is
Speaker 1: right now, not really any organized movement unless it's happening
Speaker 1: on a super local level. And I'm not even aware
Speaker 1: of those to stop the banning of books and knowledge
Speaker 1: and education. It is mostly some thing that is being
Speaker 1: covered by the media, but there's not necessarily a movement
Speaker 1: to do anything about it. So we all understand that
Speaker 1: we've got to figure out how not to be so overwhelmed,
Speaker 1: how not to how to walk and chew gum at
Speaker 1: the same time. But see, I think this is the point,
Speaker 1: and this is why our history is kept from us.
Speaker 1: This is why I was kept from us during the
Speaker 1: period of enslavement. This is why the true meaning of
Speaker 1: the Bible was distorted the Bible. We were taught that
Speaker 1: we were supposed to be enslaved. Knowledge and information is power,
Speaker 1: and that's what they have been trying to keep from us.
Speaker 1: So if we but knew that we are descendants of
Speaker 1: the first civilization, the first scientists, the first doctors, the
Speaker 1: first language speakers, the first even interpret human kind's relationship
Speaker 1: with God, the first women to be rulers, equal rulers
Speaker 1: with men in dynasties. If we knew and understand that
Speaker 1: we could believe in ourselves that we could tackle all
Speaker 1: of these things and not be so overwhelmed and not
Speaker 1: feel so besieged and marginalized. If our young people today
Speaker 1: knew that pursuing stem fields and stem education is in
Speaker 1: their DNA, because we come from a place where all
Speaker 1: of these sciences were created. If they knew that they
Speaker 1: could excel far greater than they ever could. But what's
Speaker 1: happening right now that's not being taught, and it's less
Speaker 1: likely to be taught with all this banning. So an
Speaker 1: answer to your question, we ought to organize, We ought
Speaker 1: to fight on the level it is it is, you know,
Speaker 1: school and education policy is at the local level. I've
Speaker 1: always been an advocate, Danielle, of local organizing and local
Speaker 1: mobilization because that's ultimately where decisions are made. I've said
Speaker 1: that about the police departments. There's no national panacea or
Speaker 1: no national policy that can cure all police. Police departments
Speaker 1: are government locally. We can't tweet away police violence. Okay,
Speaker 1: Come on voting rights, All that's controlled in the states
Speaker 1: on a local level. That's what election boards are, the
Speaker 1: election commissioners and the secretaries of of of of state.
Speaker 1: We can't tweet that away either. We've got to get
Speaker 1: our hands dirty. And if we really want to know
Speaker 1: the history of Dot's king not the stale versions. As
Speaker 1: you mentioned, he organized locally. He went from Montgomery to Birmingham,
Speaker 1: to Sealman all Beny, Georgia to the Chicago housing projects. Now,
Speaker 1: if that King were around the day, people be telling him,
Speaker 1: hey man, you need to get you a national social
Speaker 1: media account and get a blue check, and you have
Speaker 1: a national organization. Everybody I got a nationally but but
Speaker 1: but not about going into the trenches that he tried.
Speaker 1: He went into those places. He said, we need you
Speaker 1: to come to Chicago. He went Chicago and moved into
Speaker 1: the projects and struggled around that issue. So that's the
Speaker 1: true history of doctor King. All politics is local, all
Speaker 1: local politics is personal. We've got to do that. And
Speaker 1: so if we're going to combat this thing, and I
Speaker 1: really think we this is this is passing us back.
Speaker 1: We're missing an opportunity to engage in this fight, and
Speaker 1: we're going to look up and be sorry for it.
Speaker 1: You know, I want to stay with this for a
Speaker 1: moment too, because I will tell you that as a
Speaker 1: former educator that when I was in the classroom teaching
Speaker 1: black and brown kids in Washington, DC, you know, I
Speaker 1: made it a point to try and develop curriculum, to
Speaker 1: try and develop units for first and second graders where
Speaker 1: they could see themselves, where they could get excited about
Speaker 1: what it was that they were learning, because it was
Speaker 1: a reflection of them. It was it was you know
Speaker 1: what we consistently hear that if you see it, you
Speaker 1: can believe it. And so that makes me Mark think
Speaker 1: to myself, this isn't just it isn't It's like the
Speaker 1: tentacles of white supremacy are so many and so deep
Speaker 1: because they know that to be true that if if
Speaker 1: black people let's just talk about black people for a moment,
Speaker 1: if black people on new their true history, their true power,
Speaker 1: their true connection to source, right, then they would assert
Speaker 1: themselves right in a way that is about power and
Speaker 1: ownership and voice. And so part of the grand experiment
Speaker 1: right of chattel slavery, was to see what happens to
Speaker 1: generations of a people right over centuries when we disconnect
Speaker 1: them from their source and then feed them right the
Speaker 1: lines from our Bible, our interpretations of why whiteness is superior, right,
Speaker 1: and just give them a steady diet of that. And
Speaker 1: now you know, when I was a public school teacher,
Speaker 1: I was saying, you know, here's the thing. Public school
Speaker 1: and I say it all the time on woke f
Speaker 1: is the biggest proponent of white supremacy because by virtue
Speaker 1: of the peep white folks sitting up in a room
Speaker 1: and being able to design curriculum for millions of kids
Speaker 1: across the country, they get to tell you what should
Speaker 1: be digested who is important, who should be celebrated, and
Speaker 1: who shouldn't be right, who should be ignored. And so
Speaker 1: when you continue with that prophecy right, it becomes a
Speaker 1: self fulfilling one. And you know, and then you want
Speaker 1: to give us, give us right, these symbols of equity
Speaker 1: without actually providing equity, right, without actually providing culture. And
Speaker 1: so the question that I have for you, because this
Speaker 1: is something that I did think about a lot, is
Speaker 1: you know, as and maybe there is and I'm just unaware,
Speaker 1: but as Black folk who are very diverse right in
Speaker 1: our in our origination, whether it be from the Caribbean
Speaker 1: like my people hail from, whether it be from you know,
Speaker 1: from um, you know, various parts of South America, African nations,
Speaker 1: or what have you. Should we be developing much in
Speaker 1: the same way that you have Sunday school for Christians,
Speaker 1: you have you know, you have synagogue, you have this,
Speaker 1: that and the other thing for other religions and races
Speaker 1: and ethnicities. Should we have or is there right schooling
Speaker 1: that is about filling in these purposeful gaps for K
Speaker 1: through twelve and on. Well, that's a part of our
Speaker 1: history too. There has always been at different points in
Speaker 1: our history a freedom school movement at different points along
Speaker 1: the way. Probably hasn't been anything like that since the
Speaker 1: late sixties and early seventies when the Black Panther Party
Speaker 1: and other organizations did that. The All African People's Revolutionary
Speaker 1: Party used to have something called work study where people
Speaker 1: would come together even as adults, see because some of
Speaker 1: us got to go back to school too, because we
Speaker 1: don't know and understand our history and our culture. But
Speaker 1: that is not what it used to be. I think
Speaker 1: the places where that is mostly housed now are in
Speaker 1: private and independent African Senate schools, And when you look
Speaker 1: at it, you know, you would go back to the
Speaker 1: eighties and nineties. And I was involved in that struggle,
Speaker 1: the African Senate education movement, where we looked at all
Speaker 1: of these K through twelve public school systems in the country,
Speaker 1: many of them predominantly black, and we wanted to insert
Speaker 1: African Senate curricula into these schools. There was there were
Speaker 1: big fights about that and then eventu really um they
Speaker 1: managed to manipulate other cultures, our enemies into watering it
Speaker 1: down to multicultural education, and then that was taken away.
Speaker 1: That never really even got off the ground. So so
Speaker 1: you know, we've gone from that to this now where
Speaker 1: they don't they want to ban books, even books having
Speaker 1: to do with the oppression of other people like Jewish
Speaker 1: people from from the school system. But yeah, we do
Speaker 1: need that, Danielle, But we keep we have these fits
Speaker 1: and starts. We will start and then we won't finish.
Speaker 1: That is a part of the oppression that we deal with. Um,
Speaker 1: we've got to get beyond that. We've got to stop
Speaker 1: behaving as if wm IC the white Man's ice is colder. Um,
Speaker 1: we've got to go back to our HBCUs. I think
Speaker 1: the generation behind you and me, well, I'm a little
Speaker 1: older than you, but but they these kids need to
Speaker 1: go back to some of our HBCUs. And I'm glad
Speaker 1: to see more parents doing that. I'm glad to see
Speaker 1: more professional athletes kids. Yeah, yep, normally go to a
Speaker 1: Division one right school, say well, I'm gonna go to HBCU.
Speaker 1: I think what coach Prime is doing in Jackson State
Speaker 1: is a good thing, and coach to Georgia Tennessee State.
Speaker 1: But you're right, we have to get back to that
Speaker 1: because the other cultures do it. They understand their culture
Speaker 1: where they came from. But they have not been for
Speaker 1: four centuries, right right? You hate themselves right like we have. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, I think that that is an important thing
Speaker 1: to note too because I often, you know, we used
Speaker 1: to really piss me off back in the day, is
Speaker 1: when you know, black folks would be like, well, why
Speaker 1: can't we be like Jewish people? Why can't we be
Speaker 1: like this group? Why can't we be like that group?
Speaker 1: See how they're together, see how they built community bahba.
Speaker 1: And I was just like, because there wasn't a systematic,
Speaker 1: you know, strategic plan over centuries to break them down,
Speaker 1: to make them hate themselves. Right, There wasn't are there?
Speaker 1: You You have family trees that are going back generations,
Speaker 1: you know, centuries for some cultures, and ours was stopped
Speaker 1: dead in its tracks, right, given new names, new last names,
Speaker 1: moved around, broken apart, And so it can't be looked
Speaker 1: at as like, oh, well, black people just won't do
Speaker 1: for themselves. It's like you have to understand too why
Speaker 1: there have been so many fits and starts over so
Speaker 1: many years, because it has it's been purposeful to have
Speaker 1: this kind of of of breakdown. Um, yeah, I agree,
Speaker 1: but but let me let me help you out here.
Speaker 1: You can't say that. Um We as African people are
Speaker 1: not allowed to comment on the Jewish experience without some
Speaker 1: punitive results. And I'll leave that there. I mean, that's
Speaker 1: just a fact that some folks might get upset about
Speaker 1: hearing that. Um So, what I like to do is,
Speaker 1: instead of using your words and my words, I mean,
Speaker 1: someone who is universal, universally renowned in this Black History
Speaker 1: Month and beyond as a spokesperson for many people was
Speaker 1: James Baldwin. And so before folks criticize anything that Danielle
Speaker 1: has said or I have said, this is what James
Speaker 1: Baldwin said in a seminal piece he wrote entitled Negroes
Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty seven, he wrote, Nigros and antimic because
Speaker 1: they are anti white, and in that he describes how
Speaker 1: growing up in Harlem, the Jewish shop owners and landlords
Speaker 1: weren't very kind to us, and in our experience, we
Speaker 1: didn't distinguish between jew and white because you don't necessarily
Speaker 1: know that just looking. And I'm saying this folks having
Speaker 1: been in conversations, especially coming out of the Women's March experience,
Speaker 1: which was destroyed by false anti Semitic charges. If we're
Speaker 1: gonna have dialog with each other. We have to acknowledge
Speaker 1: black people our issues, but the Jewish people have to
Speaker 1: also acknowledge and call out those in their culture who
Speaker 1: hide behind white privilege. Because you can be Jewish, but
Speaker 1: you can also hide your Jewishness behind white privilege. And
Speaker 1: so what. And I know folks don't want to hear
Speaker 1: that and deal with it, but that's a fact. See
Speaker 1: if if, if who, people would probably still be suspended
Speaker 1: for saying what I just said. Because people do not.
Speaker 1: We are still so infantalized, still so much oppressed subjects
Speaker 1: of this country. We cannot have intellectual thought or analysis
Speaker 1: or critiquities matters. But here's what James Bondoul says. Just
Speaker 1: for one thing, the American Jews endeavor, whatever it is,
Speaker 1: has managed to purchase a relative safety for his children
Speaker 1: and a relative future for them. This is more than
Speaker 1: your father's endeavor was able to do for you, and
Speaker 1: more than your endeavor has been able to do for
Speaker 1: your children. The Jews suffering is recognized as part of
Speaker 1: the moral history of the world, and the jew is
Speaker 1: recognized as a contributed to the world's history. This is
Speaker 1: not true for the Blacks Jewish history. Whether or not.
Speaker 1: One can say it is honored is certainly known. The
Speaker 1: Black history has been blasted, maligned, and despised. The Jew
Speaker 1: is a white man. And when white men rise up
Speaker 1: against depression and they are heroes. When black men rise,
Speaker 1: they have reverted to their native savagery. The uprising in
Speaker 1: the Warsaw Ghetto was not described as a ride, nor
Speaker 1: were the participants maligned as hoodlums. The boys and girls
Speaker 1: and Watson Harlem are thoroughly aware of this, and it
Speaker 1: certainly contributes to their attitudes. So that's James Barwin. That's
Speaker 1: not me. As April nine, nineteen sixty seven, and we're
Speaker 1: still fighting those some of those battles, looking for our
Speaker 1: history to be respected, looking for our uprisings and our
Speaker 1: liberations to be respected, and it has not happened yet unfortunately.
Speaker 1: You know, I appreciate you so much for uplifting James Baldwin,
Speaker 1: particularly in this moment, because I think that it's not
Speaker 1: I think the goal of white supremacy has always been
Speaker 1: to pit marginalized groups against one another right for their victory.
Speaker 1: And you know, I wrote a piece that will you know,
Speaker 1: hopefully be up tomorrow on this entire endeavor around Whippie Goldberg,
Speaker 1: and it goes back to what you had said earlier.
Speaker 1: We don't have discourse, right, And what I said is
Speaker 1: that there was an opportunity and there still is an
Speaker 1: opportunity for us to be able to model how we
Speaker 1: have difficult conversations about difficult topics. Right, that we just
Speaker 1: don't deny them, we just don't erase them, we just
Speaker 1: don't purposefully omit them, right, but that we challenge them
Speaker 1: and we ask questions, and that we come to the
Speaker 1: table with good faith actors. And whether or not you know,
Speaker 1: I said, did Whoopee make a misstep? Absolutely she did.
Speaker 1: But if you would to have asked, if you would
Speaker 1: have done one of those late night television on the
Speaker 1: street reporting and asked people passing by black, white Latin
Speaker 1: acts Asian Pacific Island, what have you whether or not
Speaker 1: they knew or understood Jewish people to also be a
Speaker 1: race as we understand it can have been taught to
Speaker 1: contextualize race in the United States, They would have said no, right.
Speaker 1: And so to me, that goes back to and hearkens
Speaker 1: back to my initial point around education, around this banning,
Speaker 1: around this silencing and censoring. That doesn't allow us to
Speaker 1: explore these conversations and have and unpack narratives that we've
Speaker 1: been fed. Race isn't just you know, this black and
Speaker 1: white construct that has been created to place the white
Speaker 1: man in America at the top of the pyramid with
Speaker 1: us at the bottom, right, it is it is a
Speaker 1: lot broader than that. Particularly if you have traveled right
Speaker 1: and you and you see how people are are battled
Speaker 1: against each other and from the outside looking and you say,
Speaker 1: but they look exactly altic. But it's it is how
Speaker 1: we in the United States have been taught to despise difference,
Speaker 1: but based on just what we can see, you know,
Speaker 1: and not also what we can hear, what we understand,
Speaker 1: what we touch, and how people orient themselves around their faith.
Speaker 1: And so I think it's important right to have these
Speaker 1: really difficult conversations and model them. And my question mark
Speaker 1: is that are we so far passed and removed right
Speaker 1: right now from even being able to say, America, let's talk.
Speaker 1: We need we need public discourse again. We need to
Speaker 1: show how we can exchange ideas. I think about Baldwin
Speaker 1: and the shows that he went on and the conversations
Speaker 1: that he had, and the recordings and the writings and
Speaker 1: all of these things, and I say, where is that now? Well,
Speaker 1: James Baldwin obviously was extraordinary, but we still live in
Speaker 1: a society where other cultures able to choose their spokespersons,
Speaker 1: and we are not, as black people, and so I
Speaker 1: think that unfortunately, we're locked out of those conversations. You're right,
Speaker 1: you know, Whippy was wrong. She really made one mistake
Speaker 1: on the issue of race. But I don't think she
Speaker 1: should have been suspended. It's a question of understanding. Yeah,
Speaker 1: whoopee was speaking of what she saw was two groups
Speaker 1: of white people at war with each other. Where she
Speaker 1: what she did not get is that under those circumstances,
Speaker 1: Hitler had declared his group of people, the Arians, the
Speaker 1: perfect race, right, and and that's where she missed it.
Speaker 1: But I think everybody understood what she was trying to
Speaker 1: say in a modern context, because race is today and
Speaker 1: racism is today maintained and sustained when it comes to
Speaker 1: people of color. And that's not to say anti Semitism
Speaker 1: it doesn't still exist. That's not to say the Ku
Speaker 1: Klux Klan does not still exist. But I you know,
Speaker 1: it was a misorientation, a misunderstanding on her part, but
Speaker 1: it still shows how low we are on a totem
Speaker 1: quote because she, like a child, had to be disciplined
Speaker 1: for that. Even though she apologized, she still, as a
Speaker 1: black woman and a black queen, had to be set down,
Speaker 1: and it was said, you need to take some time
Speaker 1: to reflect on this. Now, who decides what adult can
Speaker 1: order that upon another adult unless they see that adult.
Speaker 1: Because of the color of her skin. As a child,
Speaker 1: we were called boy and nigga geo. We weren't call
Speaker 1: men and women. And so for those who might think
Speaker 1: that sitting her down and making her reflect, he serves
Speaker 1: them what it says to all of us once again,
Speaker 1: we are infantilized and we cannot even when we make mistakes,
Speaker 1: we cannot amend for those mistakes. While this country still
Speaker 1: has not amended for its crimes against us. We still
Speaker 1: have no reparations. But Ruopie Goldberg has to provide reparations
Speaker 1: in the form of a suspension for just words that
Speaker 1: came out of her mouth that were misspoken. So in
Speaker 1: that environment, I don't know that the opportunity for those
Speaker 1: types of dialogue exists. I know I've been involved in
Speaker 1: some of those dialogues you know, people are doing them
Speaker 1: in pockets, I guess on their own volition, But in
Speaker 1: terms of a larger national dialogue, no, because we live
Speaker 1: in a country where you literally have people right not
Speaker 1: trying to promote another civil war, trying to promote another insurrection,
Speaker 1: and they're not prepared to do that. They're not prepared
Speaker 1: to lay down their swords and shields, and we're still
Speaker 1: fighting just for our basic freedoms of nineteen sixty five
Speaker 1: Voting Rights Act, for which John Lewis almost gave his
Speaker 1: life and others and Jimmy Lee Jackson did give his life,
Speaker 1: and Voodeluzo, a white woman, and the Reverend James Reid,
Speaker 1: a white Unitarian minister. They gave their lives the Night
Speaker 1: five Voter Rights Act, and they've gutted it. We're going backwards.
Speaker 1: So I'm not sure, Daniel, honestly, how we can talk
Speaker 1: about having a collective dialogue or building the beloved community
Speaker 1: that can call for if everyone in the beloved community
Speaker 1: is not speaking the same language that we need to
Speaker 1: restore all of these rights, and these rights need to
Speaker 1: be in place, and they must also everyone also cannot.
Speaker 1: In this Black History Month, in particular, marginalize the ongoing
Speaker 1: oppression of our people every day. Yeah, Mark Thompson, as always,
Speaker 1: you really do, really make things plain, and when you're
Speaker 1: here with me, you make it woken plain. I appreciate it. Folks,
Speaker 1: make sure that you check out Make It Plains wonderful
Speaker 1: Black History Month, giving you fifteen minutes each day of
Speaker 1: history of conversation of interest that has not been mainstreamed
Speaker 1: and should be. Mark, as always, dear friend, thank you
Speaker 1: so much for your time, for your voice, for your work,
Speaker 1: for your activism. I appreciate you. I appreciate you, and
Speaker 1: always always wonderful to get to do this together. That
Speaker 1: is it for me today. Folks here on woke f
Speaker 1: as always. Power to the people and to all the people. Power,
Speaker 1: get woke and stay woke as fuck.