1 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to WIKA F Daily with 2 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:19,599 Speaker 1: Me your Girl Danielle Moody recording from the Brooklyn Bunker. Folks, 3 00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:23,480 Speaker 1: I'm really excited to bring you our monthly series, Make 4 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:26,400 Speaker 1: It Walk, with our friend Mark Thompson, who is the 5 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:30,920 Speaker 1: host of Make It Plain, another DCP entertainment podcast. And 6 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:34,400 Speaker 1: the reason why I'm excited about this month's conversation with 7 00:00:34,479 --> 00:00:38,200 Speaker 1: Mark because he's doing something really exciting on his show, 8 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:41,879 Speaker 1: which is using the twenty eight days, you know, the 9 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:45,640 Speaker 1: shortest fucking month of the year for Black History Month, 10 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:50,560 Speaker 1: to bring listeners in for fifteen minutes a day on 11 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:55,320 Speaker 1: facts and history and interesting things that we can discuss 12 00:00:55,440 --> 00:01:00,279 Speaker 1: during Black History. I think that what often gets lost, 13 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:04,839 Speaker 1: particularly in America, is like white people have picked five 14 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:07,360 Speaker 1: Black people that you can talk about for twenty eight 15 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:10,800 Speaker 1: days and then that's about it. And what Mark and 16 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:14,600 Speaker 1: I get into in our conversation today is that Black 17 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:19,280 Speaker 1: history isn't just within the borders of the United States. 18 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:24,600 Speaker 1: Black history is rich. Black history is diasporic, right like 19 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:29,760 Speaker 1: it is the world. And so we will talk about Egypt, 20 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:34,960 Speaker 1: we will talk about our history and first civilizations, things 21 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:40,720 Speaker 1: that are missing. Frankly from our regular history and discourse. Right, 22 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:45,880 Speaker 1: things that are being erased, even the small things that 23 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 1: we have gained over many centuries as black people, and 24 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:52,840 Speaker 1: in the public school system, things are being erased. And 25 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:57,320 Speaker 1: so it's a really great time, folks. And I tell 26 00:01:57,360 --> 00:01:59,600 Speaker 1: you that for me, Black History is three hundred and 27 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:02,480 Speaker 1: sixty five days of the year. I'm always trying to 28 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 1: read new things, watch new things, connect with the different people, 29 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:08,400 Speaker 1: and bring them to all of you all year around. 30 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:11,640 Speaker 1: If you notice, if you've been a long time you know, 31 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:15,000 Speaker 1: listener and watcher of woke f you know that a 32 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:17,359 Speaker 1: lot of the folks that I bring on from are 33 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:21,680 Speaker 1: from multiple disciplines, right from multiple industries, and they are 34 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:26,320 Speaker 1: people of color. And I am intentional about that because 35 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:32,600 Speaker 1: I think that exposure is necessary. And you know what 36 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:38,000 Speaker 1: annoys me so much is the fact that you know, 37 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:40,720 Speaker 1: I will tell you this, My mother got a call 38 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 1: the other day asking if she would go to a 39 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:50,000 Speaker 1: high school on Long Island that is predominantly a black 40 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:54,560 Speaker 1: high school to teach yoga for the students for Black 41 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:59,640 Speaker 1: History Month. She was asked that question on like February first, 42 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:06,800 Speaker 1: to do something on that Friday, and my mother opted 43 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:08,480 Speaker 1: out and it was just like, I'm not going to 44 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:12,160 Speaker 1: be somebody's token. And if you're really intentional about wanting 45 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:16,359 Speaker 1: to create something for your students, then why would you 46 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:19,200 Speaker 1: wait at such a late date. And this is something 47 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 1: that many black professionals, academics, thought leaders, activists have said, 48 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:32,240 Speaker 1: is that you have institutions, organizations, corporations that will reach 49 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:36,680 Speaker 1: out in the eleventh fucking hour every single Black History 50 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 1: Month to see what they can scramble and do, as 51 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:43,640 Speaker 1: if it is not the same fucking month every goddamn year. 52 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 1: If you actually want to be intentional, if you want 53 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 1: to be inclusive, then miss me with your symbolism around 54 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:56,600 Speaker 1: Black History Month. Reach out to people you know, I 55 00:03:56,640 --> 00:03:59,560 Speaker 1: don't know, months in advance, like you would do for 56 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 1: anything else, right, Like, we're not the fucking sloppy leftovers, right, 57 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 1: the sloppy seconds of this country. And it is insulting 58 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:12,320 Speaker 1: one to be asked to do things at the last minute, 59 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:14,880 Speaker 1: and then also to have the audacity to ask us 60 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:17,799 Speaker 1: to do those things for free, as if this country 61 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:22,839 Speaker 1: hasn't taken and stolen enough labor. Right. But you know, 62 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:26,840 Speaker 1: I say all this, folks to say that we are 63 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:30,200 Speaker 1: no longer and probably we Honestly, we've never been able 64 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:34,440 Speaker 1: to just rely on institutions to provide us with the 65 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:37,240 Speaker 1: information that we actually need. We need to go out 66 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:40,920 Speaker 1: there and grab that information ourselves and spread it far 67 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:44,200 Speaker 1: and wide. And so I encourage each and every single 68 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:47,479 Speaker 1: one of you who are dedicated listeners and watchers of 69 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:52,960 Speaker 1: this show to connect with buy the books of some 70 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:56,760 Speaker 1: of the folks that mark mentions in our segment together 71 00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:00,839 Speaker 1: coming up in the next couple of weeks. We have 72 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:06,520 Speaker 1: conversations with so many incredible folks. Buy their books. Right 73 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:10,120 Speaker 1: particularly now, I think that it's going to be so 74 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:14,920 Speaker 1: important for us to begin to buy books for one another, 75 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:18,479 Speaker 1: share them right by. You know, when you think about 76 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:20,919 Speaker 1: what should I get so and so and oh a 77 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:25,240 Speaker 1: holiday or a birthday or this is coming up, share knowledge. 78 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:28,159 Speaker 1: That is where our true power lies. And that is 79 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 1: how we're going to be able to fight against the 80 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:33,880 Speaker 1: dark forces of misinformation. Right it is going to have 81 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:38,360 Speaker 1: We're going to have to be intentional about our learning 82 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 1: and push away the malaise that these times are bringing 83 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:46,560 Speaker 1: onto us. Right this, you know, I don't want to 84 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:51,120 Speaker 1: do anything. I feel languishy, I feel depressed, I feel 85 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:54,440 Speaker 1: all of these things We're going to have to be 86 00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:58,360 Speaker 1: intentional about the ways in which we treat ourselves and 87 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:01,920 Speaker 1: the ways in which we want to expand our minds, 88 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:06,520 Speaker 1: our heart, our imaginations. Right, and so I really hope 89 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:10,320 Speaker 1: that you guys enjoy my one on one with Mark. 90 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:14,520 Speaker 1: I think we're referring to this as make It Woke. 91 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 1: I think it is the best title or plain as Fuck. 92 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:23,440 Speaker 1: But I love this crossover. I love my conversation with him. 93 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:26,560 Speaker 1: Please hit me up in the comments sections and let 94 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:29,359 Speaker 1: me know what you guys think about some of the 95 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:34,160 Speaker 1: information and history that Mark offers up in this special 96 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:41,920 Speaker 1: that we are doing monthly. Folks, it is the beginning 97 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:45,560 Speaker 1: of the month, which means that we are doing our 98 00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:50,880 Speaker 1: crossover episode with our friend Mark Thompson of Make It Plaine, 99 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:55,520 Speaker 1: one of dcp's political shows. And when we crossover, we 100 00:06:55,680 --> 00:06:58,880 Speaker 1: come up with random names like make It Woke, make 101 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:03,440 Speaker 1: It Gourmet, make It Woke as Fuck, woken Plane. We 102 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:06,839 Speaker 1: have no idea, but it is a delightful time to 103 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:12,040 Speaker 1: be in conversation with my friend. Happy Black History Month 104 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:16,760 Speaker 1: to you, Mark. How are you just a few days 105 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:22,720 Speaker 1: into this shortest month of the year. Well, I'm fine. 106 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:25,240 Speaker 1: I hope you will always a pleasure to do this 107 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:27,960 Speaker 1: with you. Happy Black History Month to you as well. 108 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 1: So you are doing something really exciting on Naked Plane 109 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:37,560 Speaker 1: for the twenty eight days of Black History Month. Now, 110 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:42,120 Speaker 1: you and I both celebrate Black History all year long. 111 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 1: But for those folks that are looking to get more 112 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:50,920 Speaker 1: than the stale Martin Luther quotes, that Martin Luther King 113 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:55,040 Speaker 1: quotes that are rolled out by white conservatives, then the normal, 114 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:58,720 Speaker 1: Oh here's Harriet Tubman and Frederick Douglas. Let us roll 115 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:01,720 Speaker 1: them out, but you know, contextualize them in any way 116 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:05,560 Speaker 1: or give them the fullness of character that they deserve. 117 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:09,720 Speaker 1: You were doing something what I think is really informative 118 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:15,800 Speaker 1: and interesting on Naked Plane. Tell folks what you're up 119 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:18,800 Speaker 1: to this month. Well, we're doing, and thank you for that. 120 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:22,960 Speaker 1: We're doing precisely the opposite of that, Danielle, in the 121 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 1: sense that even when it comes to Black History Month observances, 122 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:33,320 Speaker 1: our history begins and ends on these shores in America. 123 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:36,400 Speaker 1: If we're gonna talk about black history, we've got to 124 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:38,840 Speaker 1: talk about world history. We've got to talk about the 125 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:44,120 Speaker 1: many aspects of it throughout the diaspora. Black history includes Africa. 126 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:49,400 Speaker 1: Black history includes the Caribbean, Black history includes South America, 127 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:54,600 Speaker 1: Black history includes Europe. Over the years that I have 128 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:58,720 Speaker 1: been on the air at different points, I've kind of 129 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:00,960 Speaker 1: tried to have a university of airways when it comes 130 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 1: to Black history and talk. We've had an opportunity of 131 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:08,560 Speaker 1: the asatuks to some of the most iconic scholars in 132 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:13,120 Speaker 1: Black history. Unfortunately many of them have passed on, but 133 00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:15,959 Speaker 1: the likes of doctor John Henry Clark, doctor Josef been Yakin, 134 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:20,800 Speaker 1: and doctor Francis chris Wellsing, doctor Ivan van Serdam and 135 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:26,480 Speaker 1: doctor Charshi McIntyre and most recently doctor Ronoco Rashidi, who 136 00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:32,160 Speaker 1: passed away last year his expertise and I would encourage 137 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:35,480 Speaker 1: people to read all of these authors and scholars even 138 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:39,320 Speaker 1: now and that now that they are ancestors. Reinocco spent 139 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:44,880 Speaker 1: his life studying the African presence throughout the world, and 140 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:48,120 Speaker 1: so we have a footprint as African people all over 141 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 1: the world because we were, after all, the first civilization, 142 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 1: so everything flows from us. Now. I know some people 143 00:09:56,360 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 1: are offended when you say that, but that is just 144 00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 1: a biological, genealogical human fact. Also in that same vein 145 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 1: what we're focusing on, this, this Black History Month is 146 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:17,800 Speaker 1: actually the role of Egypt in Black history and African 147 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:21,720 Speaker 1: history and African American history. Um, many of us know 148 00:10:22,559 --> 00:10:24,480 Speaker 1: about the civil rights movement. I mean, that's the history 149 00:10:24,559 --> 00:10:27,199 Speaker 1: most talked about, slavery, that's the history most talked about, 150 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:29,679 Speaker 1: Civil War, all of that. But a lot of us 151 00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:36,760 Speaker 1: still have not embraced the reality that the first civilization 152 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:42,080 Speaker 1: on Earth was an African civilization. It was in Egypt, 153 00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:44,920 Speaker 1: which is what the Greeks called it, but we called 154 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:49,560 Speaker 1: it kimmitt in the indigenous language of the meta nature. 155 00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:55,600 Speaker 1: And so we're exploring that, and it's really been um profound. Uh. 156 00:10:55,800 --> 00:11:00,960 Speaker 1: Tony Browderum is leading that conversation. Who is really become 157 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:03,040 Speaker 1: the heir of parents to all these other scholars who 158 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:07,400 Speaker 1: transition to the ancestry. He leads right now the most 159 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:12,280 Speaker 1: popular tour of Egypt, historical tour of Egypt. I encourage 160 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:16,440 Speaker 1: everyone to go on in. He has discovered you know, 161 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:20,480 Speaker 1: white folks told us that they discovered everything in Egypt, right, 162 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:25,400 Speaker 1: But they're discovered everything period to the right, right and 163 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 1: but but he has discovered even more tombs of ancient 164 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:34,200 Speaker 1: dynasties in antiquity in Egypt and it's the only African 165 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:38,960 Speaker 1: American doing so to lead these types of excavations, and 166 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:42,480 Speaker 1: so it's really exciting. Um, and so we're learning about it. 167 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:44,839 Speaker 1: One thing I'll say, and I think you particularly will 168 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:50,800 Speaker 1: find this interesting. Um. You know, social media has become 169 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:53,640 Speaker 1: so ubiquitous in our lives and so many things are 170 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:56,440 Speaker 1: defined on social media. I'm not real comfortable with that 171 00:11:56,840 --> 00:12:02,560 Speaker 1: because social media alone not making one credible. Okay, just 172 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:08,200 Speaker 1: you know, scholarship in history, and so they're those who 173 00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:13,520 Speaker 1: use social media to exaggerate their knowledge and credentials, and 174 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:19,000 Speaker 1: they have invited scrutiny when it comes to issues of 175 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:25,079 Speaker 1: history and black progress, black thought, black movement, and they've 176 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:30,640 Speaker 1: even inspired a pejority. I'm sure you've heard people who 177 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:36,600 Speaker 1: are called hoteps. People like and many of these hoteps. 178 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:41,600 Speaker 1: This term is often assigned to men who purport to 179 00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:45,640 Speaker 1: be in our freedom movement, but who oftentimes women accused 180 00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:49,720 Speaker 1: of even being sexist. What is unfortunate. We talked about 181 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:52,680 Speaker 1: this this month. Hotep is a meta natural word. It 182 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:59,120 Speaker 1: comes from our culture. It means peace, just like Aslama licam. 183 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:01,880 Speaker 1: It was the name of a great African multi genius, 184 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:05,160 Speaker 1: the first world multi genius m Hotep, who was the 185 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:10,200 Speaker 1: father of surgery and medicine in ancient Egypt, in ancient Kimmitt. 186 00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:15,240 Speaker 1: It's really sad that a term indigenous to our people 187 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:19,240 Speaker 1: in our history, hoteps, has become a pejorative and we 188 00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:24,800 Speaker 1: have made the inn word endearing. So we say when 189 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:27,440 Speaker 1: we speak with someone neighbors, so that's a hotel. But 190 00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 1: then when we see a friend, oh, that's my nigga. 191 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:33,280 Speaker 1: So it just goes to show you how we have 192 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:36,040 Speaker 1: in this culture on these shores which are ours, and 193 00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:38,960 Speaker 1: how we were brought here, how we have managed in 194 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:42,680 Speaker 1: that assimilation to turn everything upside down on his head. 195 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:44,760 Speaker 1: We need to figure out a way in Black History 196 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:47,480 Speaker 1: Month to turn the right side up, you know, Marky 197 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:51,080 Speaker 1: brop So, I mean so many things. One, I have 198 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:55,720 Speaker 1: always wanted to go to Egypt. I have always wanted 199 00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:58,400 Speaker 1: to go on an excavation. I don't know, maybe it's 200 00:13:58,520 --> 00:14:02,280 Speaker 1: like that the inner crusade uh in me from growing 201 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:04,200 Speaker 1: up in you know, in the eighties with all the 202 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:07,240 Speaker 1: movies that uh that used to come on. But I've 203 00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:10,560 Speaker 1: always wanted to do that because you know, everything that 204 00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:14,640 Speaker 1: you stated is fact, right, like we the birth of 205 00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:21,120 Speaker 1: civilization comes uh comes from from Egypt, from blackness, right, 206 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:24,960 Speaker 1: and I mean we have always been been taught the opposite. 207 00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:29,520 Speaker 1: But it is through that whitewashing, through that brainwashing, um, 208 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:36,600 Speaker 1: that we have been removed, displaced, disassociated, disembodied from this history. 209 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:40,600 Speaker 1: And this is what pains me too about Black History 210 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:43,200 Speaker 1: Month is at one, it's the shortest month of the year, 211 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:46,440 Speaker 1: which I just find insulting on its face. But then also, 212 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:52,200 Speaker 1: you know, we in America have the have the ability 213 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:56,480 Speaker 1: to just keep having the same cyclical conversations with the 214 00:14:56,560 --> 00:15:00,600 Speaker 1: same characters, as if as if it isn't a global 215 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:04,800 Speaker 1: as if we aren't a global people, right um. And 216 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:10,560 Speaker 1: I and I think that too. You know, these these 217 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:17,520 Speaker 1: uh iterations into different conversations about our ancestry are necessary, 218 00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:22,960 Speaker 1: and especially at a time when we're battling against radical 219 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:27,080 Speaker 1: right wingers who are doing what they've always done, which 220 00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:32,120 Speaker 1: is whitewash history, which is a remove anything um that 221 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 1: was discovered, innovated, changed, you know, build upon, or created 222 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:42,080 Speaker 1: by black indigenous people of color. And so, you know, 223 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:46,320 Speaker 1: at a time when book banning is now back in vogue, 224 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:53,880 Speaker 1: where now you're you're seeing curriculums and teachers be threatened 225 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:59,360 Speaker 1: you know, how how do people engage or how should 226 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:04,920 Speaker 1: they attempt to engage with this level of understanding? What 227 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:09,720 Speaker 1: kind of intentionality do you think is necessary in order 228 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:12,920 Speaker 1: for us not to be swept up in the latest 229 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:15,840 Speaker 1: white erasure. Well, you know, it's funny. I had a 230 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:18,160 Speaker 1: friend in the movement called me late last night to 231 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:22,320 Speaker 1: really raise that question, and he said to me, he said, 232 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:25,840 Speaker 1: you know, we're fighting on all these fronts voting rights. 233 00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:29,800 Speaker 1: Now we're about to have a big fight around the 234 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:32,160 Speaker 1: first black woman's Spreme Court nominee, which really shouldn't be 235 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:33,760 Speaker 1: a fight. And I'll come back to that in a minute. 236 00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:39,760 Speaker 1: And he said, Mark, who is fighting against all of 237 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:43,560 Speaker 1: the education banning that is going on? And I think 238 00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:46,520 Speaker 1: about it, said, no, you know, no one there is 239 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:51,080 Speaker 1: right now, not really any organized movement unless it's happening 240 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:53,440 Speaker 1: on a super local level. And I'm not even aware 241 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:57,400 Speaker 1: of those to stop the banning of books and knowledge 242 00:16:57,400 --> 00:17:01,000 Speaker 1: and education. It is mostly some thing that is being 243 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:04,840 Speaker 1: covered by the media, but there's not necessarily a movement 244 00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:08,679 Speaker 1: to do anything about it. So we all understand that 245 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:11,400 Speaker 1: we've got to figure out how not to be so overwhelmed, 246 00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:15,959 Speaker 1: how not to how to walk and chew gum at 247 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:17,800 Speaker 1: the same time. But see, I think this is the point, 248 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:20,439 Speaker 1: and this is why our history is kept from us. 249 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:22,919 Speaker 1: This is why I was kept from us during the 250 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:25,560 Speaker 1: period of enslavement. This is why the true meaning of 251 00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:29,920 Speaker 1: the Bible was distorted the Bible. We were taught that 252 00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:35,159 Speaker 1: we were supposed to be enslaved. Knowledge and information is power, 253 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:37,480 Speaker 1: and that's what they have been trying to keep from us. 254 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:43,440 Speaker 1: So if we but knew that we are descendants of 255 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:48,880 Speaker 1: the first civilization, the first scientists, the first doctors, the 256 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:52,960 Speaker 1: first language speakers, the first even interpret human kind's relationship 257 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:58,240 Speaker 1: with God, the first women to be rulers, equal rulers 258 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:03,399 Speaker 1: with men in dynasties. If we knew and understand that 259 00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:06,000 Speaker 1: we could believe in ourselves that we could tackle all 260 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:10,399 Speaker 1: of these things and not be so overwhelmed and not 261 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:15,080 Speaker 1: feel so besieged and marginalized. If our young people today 262 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:23,520 Speaker 1: knew that pursuing stem fields and stem education is in 263 00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:27,119 Speaker 1: their DNA, because we come from a place where all 264 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:29,960 Speaker 1: of these sciences were created. If they knew that they 265 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:33,240 Speaker 1: could excel far greater than they ever could. But what's 266 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:37,320 Speaker 1: happening right now that's not being taught, and it's less 267 00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:39,159 Speaker 1: likely to be taught with all this banning. So an 268 00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:44,320 Speaker 1: answer to your question, we ought to organize, We ought 269 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:48,040 Speaker 1: to fight on the level it is it is, you know, 270 00:18:48,119 --> 00:18:51,640 Speaker 1: school and education policy is at the local level. I've 271 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:56,520 Speaker 1: always been an advocate, Danielle, of local organizing and local 272 00:18:56,560 --> 00:19:00,760 Speaker 1: mobilization because that's ultimately where decisions are made. I've said 273 00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:05,359 Speaker 1: that about the police departments. There's no national panacea or 274 00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:08,280 Speaker 1: no national policy that can cure all police. Police departments 275 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:12,920 Speaker 1: are government locally. We can't tweet away police violence. Okay, 276 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:17,639 Speaker 1: Come on voting rights, All that's controlled in the states 277 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:19,879 Speaker 1: on a local level. That's what election boards are, the 278 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:23,399 Speaker 1: election commissioners and the secretaries of of of of state. 279 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 1: We can't tweet that away either. We've got to get 280 00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:29,280 Speaker 1: our hands dirty. And if we really want to know 281 00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:32,359 Speaker 1: the history of Dot's king not the stale versions. As 282 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:37,000 Speaker 1: you mentioned, he organized locally. He went from Montgomery to Birmingham, 283 00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:40,800 Speaker 1: to Sealman all Beny, Georgia to the Chicago housing projects. Now, 284 00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:43,840 Speaker 1: if that King were around the day, people be telling him, 285 00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:46,000 Speaker 1: hey man, you need to get you a national social 286 00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:48,959 Speaker 1: media account and get a blue check, and you have 287 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:53,000 Speaker 1: a national organization. Everybody I got a nationally but but 288 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:57,639 Speaker 1: but not about going into the trenches that he tried. 289 00:19:57,720 --> 00:19:59,879 Speaker 1: He went into those places. He said, we need you 290 00:19:59,920 --> 00:20:02,960 Speaker 1: to come to Chicago. He went Chicago and moved into 291 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:07,800 Speaker 1: the projects and struggled around that issue. So that's the 292 00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:12,920 Speaker 1: true history of doctor King. All politics is local, all 293 00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:15,879 Speaker 1: local politics is personal. We've got to do that. And 294 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:18,320 Speaker 1: so if we're going to combat this thing, and I 295 00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:21,080 Speaker 1: really think we this is this is passing us back. 296 00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:24,840 Speaker 1: We're missing an opportunity to engage in this fight, and 297 00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:26,680 Speaker 1: we're going to look up and be sorry for it. 298 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:29,560 Speaker 1: You know, I want to stay with this for a 299 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:32,919 Speaker 1: moment too, because I will tell you that as a 300 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:39,240 Speaker 1: former educator that when I was in the classroom teaching 301 00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:43,479 Speaker 1: black and brown kids in Washington, DC, you know, I 302 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:47,000 Speaker 1: made it a point to try and develop curriculum, to 303 00:20:47,119 --> 00:20:51,320 Speaker 1: try and develop units for first and second graders where 304 00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:54,639 Speaker 1: they could see themselves, where they could get excited about 305 00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:57,159 Speaker 1: what it was that they were learning, because it was 306 00:20:57,200 --> 00:21:00,600 Speaker 1: a reflection of them. It was it was you know 307 00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:02,879 Speaker 1: what we consistently hear that if you see it, you 308 00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:06,359 Speaker 1: can believe it. And so that makes me Mark think 309 00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:11,680 Speaker 1: to myself, this isn't just it isn't It's like the 310 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:15,800 Speaker 1: tentacles of white supremacy are so many and so deep 311 00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:20,160 Speaker 1: because they know that to be true that if if 312 00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:22,960 Speaker 1: black people let's just talk about black people for a moment, 313 00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 1: if black people on new their true history, their true power, 314 00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:35,160 Speaker 1: their true connection to source, right, then they would assert 315 00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:40,080 Speaker 1: themselves right in a way that is about power and 316 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:44,520 Speaker 1: ownership and voice. And so part of the grand experiment 317 00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:50,080 Speaker 1: right of chattel slavery, was to see what happens to 318 00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:55,440 Speaker 1: generations of a people right over centuries when we disconnect 319 00:21:55,480 --> 00:22:00,960 Speaker 1: them from their source and then feed them right the 320 00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:07,960 Speaker 1: lines from our Bible, our interpretations of why whiteness is superior, right, 321 00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:10,600 Speaker 1: and just give them a steady diet of that. And 322 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:13,160 Speaker 1: now you know, when I was a public school teacher, 323 00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:17,399 Speaker 1: I was saying, you know, here's the thing. Public school 324 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:19,000 Speaker 1: and I say it all the time on woke f 325 00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:23,200 Speaker 1: is the biggest proponent of white supremacy because by virtue 326 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:26,080 Speaker 1: of the peep white folks sitting up in a room 327 00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:29,919 Speaker 1: and being able to design curriculum for millions of kids 328 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:32,760 Speaker 1: across the country, they get to tell you what should 329 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:35,919 Speaker 1: be digested who is important, who should be celebrated, and 330 00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:39,480 Speaker 1: who shouldn't be right, who should be ignored. And so 331 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:43,600 Speaker 1: when you continue with that prophecy right, it becomes a 332 00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:47,120 Speaker 1: self fulfilling one. And you know, and then you want 333 00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:53,200 Speaker 1: to give us, give us right, these symbols of equity 334 00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:59,440 Speaker 1: without actually providing equity, right, without actually providing culture. And 335 00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:01,239 Speaker 1: so the question that I have for you, because this 336 00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:03,840 Speaker 1: is something that I did think about a lot, is 337 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:08,840 Speaker 1: you know, as and maybe there is and I'm just unaware, 338 00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:13,480 Speaker 1: but as Black folk who are very diverse right in 339 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:17,240 Speaker 1: our in our origination, whether it be from the Caribbean 340 00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:20,920 Speaker 1: like my people hail from, whether it be from you know, 341 00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:25,959 Speaker 1: from um, you know, various parts of South America, African nations, 342 00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:30,520 Speaker 1: or what have you. Should we be developing much in 343 00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:33,480 Speaker 1: the same way that you have Sunday school for Christians, 344 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:36,639 Speaker 1: you have you know, you have synagogue, you have this, 345 00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:40,160 Speaker 1: that and the other thing for other religions and races 346 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:46,159 Speaker 1: and ethnicities. Should we have or is there right schooling 347 00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:51,040 Speaker 1: that is about filling in these purposeful gaps for K 348 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:54,679 Speaker 1: through twelve and on. Well, that's a part of our 349 00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:59,080 Speaker 1: history too. There has always been at different points in 350 00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:03,200 Speaker 1: our history a freedom school movement at different points along 351 00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:06,720 Speaker 1: the way. Probably hasn't been anything like that since the 352 00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:09,399 Speaker 1: late sixties and early seventies when the Black Panther Party 353 00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:14,199 Speaker 1: and other organizations did that. The All African People's Revolutionary 354 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:18,440 Speaker 1: Party used to have something called work study where people 355 00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:20,960 Speaker 1: would come together even as adults, see because some of 356 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:23,280 Speaker 1: us got to go back to school too, because we 357 00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:26,639 Speaker 1: don't know and understand our history and our culture. But 358 00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:28,840 Speaker 1: that is not what it used to be. I think 359 00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:33,480 Speaker 1: the places where that is mostly housed now are in 360 00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:37,720 Speaker 1: private and independent African Senate schools, And when you look 361 00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:39,360 Speaker 1: at it, you know, you would go back to the 362 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:42,400 Speaker 1: eighties and nineties. And I was involved in that struggle, 363 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:45,520 Speaker 1: the African Senate education movement, where we looked at all 364 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:48,399 Speaker 1: of these K through twelve public school systems in the country, 365 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:52,000 Speaker 1: many of them predominantly black, and we wanted to insert 366 00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:57,320 Speaker 1: African Senate curricula into these schools. There was there were 367 00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:02,200 Speaker 1: big fights about that and then eventu really um they 368 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:06,879 Speaker 1: managed to manipulate other cultures, our enemies into watering it 369 00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:12,359 Speaker 1: down to multicultural education, and then that was taken away. 370 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:15,560 Speaker 1: That never really even got off the ground. So so 371 00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:18,920 Speaker 1: you know, we've gone from that to this now where 372 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:23,280 Speaker 1: they don't they want to ban books, even books having 373 00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:26,359 Speaker 1: to do with the oppression of other people like Jewish 374 00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:29,159 Speaker 1: people from from the school system. But yeah, we do 375 00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:32,200 Speaker 1: need that, Danielle, But we keep we have these fits 376 00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:35,720 Speaker 1: and starts. We will start and then we won't finish. 377 00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:39,720 Speaker 1: That is a part of the oppression that we deal with. Um, 378 00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:42,119 Speaker 1: we've got to get beyond that. We've got to stop 379 00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:49,040 Speaker 1: behaving as if wm IC the white Man's ice is colder. Um, 380 00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:54,880 Speaker 1: we've got to go back to our HBCUs. I think 381 00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:57,720 Speaker 1: the generation behind you and me, well, I'm a little 382 00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:00,920 Speaker 1: older than you, but but they these kids need to 383 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:03,280 Speaker 1: go back to some of our HBCUs. And I'm glad 384 00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:05,240 Speaker 1: to see more parents doing that. I'm glad to see 385 00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:10,040 Speaker 1: more professional athletes kids. Yeah, yep, normally go to a 386 00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:12,919 Speaker 1: Division one right school, say well, I'm gonna go to HBCU. 387 00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:15,960 Speaker 1: I think what coach Prime is doing in Jackson State 388 00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:19,160 Speaker 1: is a good thing, and coach to Georgia Tennessee State. 389 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:21,840 Speaker 1: But you're right, we have to get back to that 390 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:25,800 Speaker 1: because the other cultures do it. They understand their culture 391 00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:29,760 Speaker 1: where they came from. But they have not been for 392 00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:36,359 Speaker 1: four centuries, right right? You hate themselves right like we have. Yeah, 393 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:38,600 Speaker 1: you know, I think that that is an important thing 394 00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:41,640 Speaker 1: to note too because I often, you know, we used 395 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:43,959 Speaker 1: to really piss me off back in the day, is 396 00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:46,400 Speaker 1: when you know, black folks would be like, well, why 397 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:48,639 Speaker 1: can't we be like Jewish people? Why can't we be 398 00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:50,879 Speaker 1: like this group? Why can't we be like that group? 399 00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:53,879 Speaker 1: See how they're together, see how they built community bahba. 400 00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:58,040 Speaker 1: And I was just like, because there wasn't a systematic, 401 00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:05,119 Speaker 1: you know, strategic plan over centuries to break them down, 402 00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:11,000 Speaker 1: to make them hate themselves. Right, There wasn't are there? 403 00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:15,199 Speaker 1: You You have family trees that are going back generations, 404 00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:19,479 Speaker 1: you know, centuries for some cultures, and ours was stopped 405 00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:23,919 Speaker 1: dead in its tracks, right, given new names, new last names, 406 00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:28,439 Speaker 1: moved around, broken apart, And so it can't be looked 407 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:30,919 Speaker 1: at as like, oh, well, black people just won't do 408 00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:35,040 Speaker 1: for themselves. It's like you have to understand too why 409 00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:38,040 Speaker 1: there have been so many fits and starts over so 410 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:42,919 Speaker 1: many years, because it has it's been purposeful to have 411 00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:50,159 Speaker 1: this kind of of of breakdown. Um, yeah, I agree, 412 00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:52,320 Speaker 1: but but let me let me help you out here. 413 00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:59,400 Speaker 1: You can't say that. Um We as African people are 414 00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:10,360 Speaker 1: not allowed to comment on the Jewish experience without some 415 00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:19,639 Speaker 1: punitive results. And I'll leave that there. I mean, that's 416 00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:22,080 Speaker 1: just a fact that some folks might get upset about 417 00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:27,280 Speaker 1: hearing that. Um So, what I like to do is, 418 00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:31,240 Speaker 1: instead of using your words and my words, I mean, 419 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:37,639 Speaker 1: someone who is universal, universally renowned in this Black History 420 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:41,200 Speaker 1: Month and beyond as a spokesperson for many people was 421 00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:47,560 Speaker 1: James Baldwin. And so before folks criticize anything that Danielle 422 00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:51,480 Speaker 1: has said or I have said, this is what James 423 00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:57,080 Speaker 1: Baldwin said in a seminal piece he wrote entitled Negroes 424 00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:01,760 Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty seven, he wrote, Nigros and antimic because 425 00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:06,240 Speaker 1: they are anti white, and in that he describes how 426 00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:10,200 Speaker 1: growing up in Harlem, the Jewish shop owners and landlords 427 00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:15,280 Speaker 1: weren't very kind to us, and in our experience, we 428 00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:20,360 Speaker 1: didn't distinguish between jew and white because you don't necessarily 429 00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:23,800 Speaker 1: know that just looking. And I'm saying this folks having 430 00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:28,960 Speaker 1: been in conversations, especially coming out of the Women's March experience, 431 00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:37,040 Speaker 1: which was destroyed by false anti Semitic charges. If we're 432 00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:40,120 Speaker 1: gonna have dialog with each other. We have to acknowledge 433 00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:42,800 Speaker 1: black people our issues, but the Jewish people have to 434 00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:49,120 Speaker 1: also acknowledge and call out those in their culture who 435 00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:55,120 Speaker 1: hide behind white privilege. Because you can be Jewish, but 436 00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:59,080 Speaker 1: you can also hide your Jewishness behind white privilege. And 437 00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:02,280 Speaker 1: so what. And I know folks don't want to hear 438 00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:03,760 Speaker 1: that and deal with it, but that's a fact. See 439 00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:09,040 Speaker 1: if if, if who, people would probably still be suspended 440 00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:11,520 Speaker 1: for saying what I just said. Because people do not. 441 00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:19,320 Speaker 1: We are still so infantalized, still so much oppressed subjects 442 00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:25,280 Speaker 1: of this country. We cannot have intellectual thought or analysis 443 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:28,320 Speaker 1: or critiquities matters. But here's what James Bondoul says. Just 444 00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:31,720 Speaker 1: for one thing, the American Jews endeavor, whatever it is, 445 00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:35,880 Speaker 1: has managed to purchase a relative safety for his children 446 00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:40,680 Speaker 1: and a relative future for them. This is more than 447 00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:43,920 Speaker 1: your father's endeavor was able to do for you, and 448 00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:47,920 Speaker 1: more than your endeavor has been able to do for 449 00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:52,480 Speaker 1: your children. The Jews suffering is recognized as part of 450 00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:55,360 Speaker 1: the moral history of the world, and the jew is 451 00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:59,560 Speaker 1: recognized as a contributed to the world's history. This is 452 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:03,680 Speaker 1: not true for the Blacks Jewish history. Whether or not. 453 00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:08,240 Speaker 1: One can say it is honored is certainly known. The 454 00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:15,200 Speaker 1: Black history has been blasted, maligned, and despised. The Jew 455 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:17,000 Speaker 1: is a white man. And when white men rise up 456 00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:20,160 Speaker 1: against depression and they are heroes. When black men rise, 457 00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:25,760 Speaker 1: they have reverted to their native savagery. The uprising in 458 00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:28,400 Speaker 1: the Warsaw Ghetto was not described as a ride, nor 459 00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:33,000 Speaker 1: were the participants maligned as hoodlums. The boys and girls 460 00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:36,080 Speaker 1: and Watson Harlem are thoroughly aware of this, and it 461 00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:42,800 Speaker 1: certainly contributes to their attitudes. So that's James Barwin. That's 462 00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:46,080 Speaker 1: not me. As April nine, nineteen sixty seven, and we're 463 00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:50,480 Speaker 1: still fighting those some of those battles, looking for our 464 00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:53,680 Speaker 1: history to be respected, looking for our uprisings and our 465 00:31:53,720 --> 00:32:01,000 Speaker 1: liberations to be respected, and it has not happened yet unfortunately. 466 00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:07,880 Speaker 1: You know, I appreciate you so much for uplifting James Baldwin, 467 00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:14,560 Speaker 1: particularly in this moment, because I think that it's not 468 00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:18,040 Speaker 1: I think the goal of white supremacy has always been 469 00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:24,000 Speaker 1: to pit marginalized groups against one another right for their victory. 470 00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:29,320 Speaker 1: And you know, I wrote a piece that will you know, 471 00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:37,000 Speaker 1: hopefully be up tomorrow on this entire endeavor around Whippie Goldberg, 472 00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:39,760 Speaker 1: and it goes back to what you had said earlier. 473 00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:44,200 Speaker 1: We don't have discourse, right, And what I said is 474 00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:46,880 Speaker 1: that there was an opportunity and there still is an 475 00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:50,480 Speaker 1: opportunity for us to be able to model how we 476 00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:55,520 Speaker 1: have difficult conversations about difficult topics. Right, that we just 477 00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:58,280 Speaker 1: don't deny them, we just don't erase them, we just 478 00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:03,120 Speaker 1: don't purposefully omit them, right, but that we challenge them 479 00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:06,120 Speaker 1: and we ask questions, and that we come to the 480 00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:10,520 Speaker 1: table with good faith actors. And whether or not you know, 481 00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:15,160 Speaker 1: I said, did Whoopee make a misstep? Absolutely she did. 482 00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:17,800 Speaker 1: But if you would to have asked, if you would 483 00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:21,400 Speaker 1: have done one of those late night television on the 484 00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:27,280 Speaker 1: street reporting and asked people passing by black, white Latin 485 00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:31,360 Speaker 1: acts Asian Pacific Island, what have you whether or not 486 00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:36,719 Speaker 1: they knew or understood Jewish people to also be a 487 00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:40,600 Speaker 1: race as we understand it can have been taught to 488 00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:44,680 Speaker 1: contextualize race in the United States, They would have said no, right. 489 00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:47,840 Speaker 1: And so to me, that goes back to and hearkens 490 00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:52,760 Speaker 1: back to my initial point around education, around this banning, 491 00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:57,520 Speaker 1: around this silencing and censoring. That doesn't allow us to 492 00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:03,080 Speaker 1: explore these conversations and have and unpack narratives that we've 493 00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:07,720 Speaker 1: been fed. Race isn't just you know, this black and 494 00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:12,520 Speaker 1: white construct that has been created to place the white 495 00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:16,160 Speaker 1: man in America at the top of the pyramid with 496 00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:19,560 Speaker 1: us at the bottom, right, it is it is a 497 00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:23,640 Speaker 1: lot broader than that. Particularly if you have traveled right 498 00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:28,120 Speaker 1: and you and you see how people are are battled 499 00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:31,040 Speaker 1: against each other and from the outside looking and you say, 500 00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:35,640 Speaker 1: but they look exactly altic. But it's it is how 501 00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:40,400 Speaker 1: we in the United States have been taught to despise difference, 502 00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:43,799 Speaker 1: but based on just what we can see, you know, 503 00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:46,680 Speaker 1: and not also what we can hear, what we understand, 504 00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:49,560 Speaker 1: what we touch, and how people orient themselves around their faith. 505 00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:54,880 Speaker 1: And so I think it's important right to have these 506 00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:59,160 Speaker 1: really difficult conversations and model them. And my question mark 507 00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:03,719 Speaker 1: is that are we so far passed and removed right 508 00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:10,040 Speaker 1: right now from even being able to say, America, let's talk. 509 00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:14,480 Speaker 1: We need we need public discourse again. We need to 510 00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:18,920 Speaker 1: show how we can exchange ideas. I think about Baldwin 511 00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:22,000 Speaker 1: and the shows that he went on and the conversations 512 00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:24,360 Speaker 1: that he had, and the recordings and the writings and 513 00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:30,520 Speaker 1: all of these things, and I say, where is that now? Well, 514 00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:37,719 Speaker 1: James Baldwin obviously was extraordinary, but we still live in 515 00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:43,280 Speaker 1: a society where other cultures able to choose their spokespersons, 516 00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:49,040 Speaker 1: and we are not, as black people, and so I 517 00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:56,040 Speaker 1: think that unfortunately, we're locked out of those conversations. You're right, 518 00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:58,840 Speaker 1: you know, Whippy was wrong. She really made one mistake 519 00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:03,719 Speaker 1: on the issue of race. But I don't think she 520 00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:08,080 Speaker 1: should have been suspended. It's a question of understanding. Yeah, 521 00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:11,160 Speaker 1: whoopee was speaking of what she saw was two groups 522 00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:14,560 Speaker 1: of white people at war with each other. Where she 523 00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:18,200 Speaker 1: what she did not get is that under those circumstances, 524 00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:22,719 Speaker 1: Hitler had declared his group of people, the Arians, the 525 00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:26,520 Speaker 1: perfect race, right, and and that's where she missed it. 526 00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:30,840 Speaker 1: But I think everybody understood what she was trying to 527 00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:37,279 Speaker 1: say in a modern context, because race is today and 528 00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:43,239 Speaker 1: racism is today maintained and sustained when it comes to 529 00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:46,760 Speaker 1: people of color. And that's not to say anti Semitism 530 00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:51,200 Speaker 1: it doesn't still exist. That's not to say the Ku 531 00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:53,279 Speaker 1: Klux Klan does not still exist. But I you know, 532 00:36:55,920 --> 00:37:00,279 Speaker 1: it was a misorientation, a misunderstanding on her part, but 533 00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:02,520 Speaker 1: it still shows how low we are on a totem 534 00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:08,000 Speaker 1: quote because she, like a child, had to be disciplined 535 00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:13,719 Speaker 1: for that. Even though she apologized, she still, as a 536 00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:16,560 Speaker 1: black woman and a black queen, had to be set down, 537 00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:19,360 Speaker 1: and it was said, you need to take some time 538 00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:26,120 Speaker 1: to reflect on this. Now, who decides what adult can 539 00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:31,520 Speaker 1: order that upon another adult unless they see that adult. 540 00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:34,320 Speaker 1: Because of the color of her skin. As a child, 541 00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:38,799 Speaker 1: we were called boy and nigga geo. We weren't call 542 00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:43,440 Speaker 1: men and women. And so for those who might think 543 00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:49,640 Speaker 1: that sitting her down and making her reflect, he serves 544 00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:52,600 Speaker 1: them what it says to all of us once again, 545 00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:58,200 Speaker 1: we are infantilized and we cannot even when we make mistakes, 546 00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:02,280 Speaker 1: we cannot amend for those mistakes. While this country still 547 00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:05,640 Speaker 1: has not amended for its crimes against us. We still 548 00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:10,760 Speaker 1: have no reparations. But Ruopie Goldberg has to provide reparations 549 00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:14,759 Speaker 1: in the form of a suspension for just words that 550 00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:19,799 Speaker 1: came out of her mouth that were misspoken. So in 551 00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:22,719 Speaker 1: that environment, I don't know that the opportunity for those 552 00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:25,080 Speaker 1: types of dialogue exists. I know I've been involved in 553 00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:28,440 Speaker 1: some of those dialogues you know, people are doing them 554 00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:32,200 Speaker 1: in pockets, I guess on their own volition, But in 555 00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:36,839 Speaker 1: terms of a larger national dialogue, no, because we live 556 00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:38,719 Speaker 1: in a country where you literally have people right not 557 00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:42,839 Speaker 1: trying to promote another civil war, trying to promote another insurrection, 558 00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:46,720 Speaker 1: and they're not prepared to do that. They're not prepared 559 00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:52,000 Speaker 1: to lay down their swords and shields, and we're still 560 00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:55,040 Speaker 1: fighting just for our basic freedoms of nineteen sixty five 561 00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:58,440 Speaker 1: Voting Rights Act, for which John Lewis almost gave his 562 00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:01,839 Speaker 1: life and others and Jimmy Lee Jackson did give his life, 563 00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:05,439 Speaker 1: and Voodeluzo, a white woman, and the Reverend James Reid, 564 00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:07,880 Speaker 1: a white Unitarian minister. They gave their lives the Night 565 00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:12,480 Speaker 1: five Voter Rights Act, and they've gutted it. We're going backwards. 566 00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:17,839 Speaker 1: So I'm not sure, Daniel, honestly, how we can talk 567 00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:22,680 Speaker 1: about having a collective dialogue or building the beloved community 568 00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:26,719 Speaker 1: that can call for if everyone in the beloved community 569 00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:29,239 Speaker 1: is not speaking the same language that we need to 570 00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:33,440 Speaker 1: restore all of these rights, and these rights need to 571 00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:38,360 Speaker 1: be in place, and they must also everyone also cannot. 572 00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:44,319 Speaker 1: In this Black History Month, in particular, marginalize the ongoing 573 00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:53,400 Speaker 1: oppression of our people every day. Yeah, Mark Thompson, as always, 574 00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:56,520 Speaker 1: you really do, really make things plain, and when you're 575 00:39:56,600 --> 00:40:01,440 Speaker 1: here with me, you make it woken plain. I appreciate it. Folks, 576 00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:05,839 Speaker 1: make sure that you check out Make It Plains wonderful 577 00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:12,600 Speaker 1: Black History Month, giving you fifteen minutes each day of 578 00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:18,080 Speaker 1: history of conversation of interest that has not been mainstreamed 579 00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:21,960 Speaker 1: and should be. Mark, as always, dear friend, thank you 580 00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:25,160 Speaker 1: so much for your time, for your voice, for your work, 581 00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:28,719 Speaker 1: for your activism. I appreciate you. I appreciate you, and 582 00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:36,440 Speaker 1: always always wonderful to get to do this together. That 583 00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:39,719 Speaker 1: is it for me today. Folks here on woke f 584 00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:43,760 Speaker 1: as always. Power to the people and to all the people. Power, 585 00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:46,000 Speaker 1: get woke and stay woke as fuck.