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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know from HowStuffWorks dot com.

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Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's

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Speaker 2: Charles w No nonsense, let's get down to business. Bryant,

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Speaker 2: there's Jerry. What's going on with this thing? Rolling? And

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Speaker 2: again it's me Josh. Put the three of us together,

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Speaker 2: you get Stuff you should know. The late twenty eighteen edition,

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Speaker 2: which is tense.

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Speaker 3: It's Josh doctor nonsense. Clark. You have a degree in nonsense.

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Speaker 2: That's true, and a little I have a minor. And Tomfoolery.

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Speaker 3: Oh man, how you doing. I'm well, how are you good?

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Speaker 2: So I had to clear my throat. I had a

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Speaker 2: little garlic chicken in it really kind of attacked my

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Speaker 2: mucus memory just fall chuck. Yeah, Halloween's almost here.

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Speaker 3: Man, It's finally like cooling off a little bit.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I know. It's been a hot one.

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Speaker 3: Although the sun is still blazing hot.

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Speaker 2: Yeah in the sun, if it's in the shade, maybe

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Speaker 2: after sundown and the wind's blowing big, you're you're in there.

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Speaker 2: It's fall time.

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Speaker 3: Yeah for real.

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Speaker 2: I'm wearing my boots. Oh nice, got a flannel shirt on.

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Speaker 2: I might as well be on a hay.

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Speaker 3: Ride wearing my pumas my my favorite murder shirt.

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Speaker 2: Nice. Yeah, that's a great shirt. The toxic masculinity ruins

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Speaker 2: the party again. What a great shirt.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they actually follow through with great show quotes. Put

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Speaker 3: them on T shirts. Smart and sell a ton of them.

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Speaker 2: That's smart. Yeah, that's the way to do it.

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Speaker 3: We try.

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Speaker 2: The key is selling a ton of them, that's right,

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Speaker 2: and having the good quotes.

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Speaker 3: I feel like we ran out of good quotes seven

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Speaker 3: years ago.

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Speaker 2: That is not true. Chuck, watch this you ready?

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Speaker 4: Huh?

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Speaker 2: It's showtime?

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Speaker 3: What do you think that's good? How about this? There's

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Speaker 3: no business like show business.

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Speaker 2: Oh that's a good one too. You could write a

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Speaker 2: song out of something like that.

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Speaker 3: It's not show friends, it's show business.

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Speaker 2: Right. Well look, wait, waite, before we start, I want

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Speaker 2: to address the ten people who are still listening at

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Speaker 2: this point, I would like to announce the birth of

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Speaker 2: my new website. Yeah, it's called the Josh Clarkway dot com.

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Speaker 3: How much did it weigh?

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Speaker 2: It weighed nothing because it's a website. But there was

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Speaker 2: a lot of blood, sweat, and tears put into its

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Speaker 2: gestation and delivery. And our friend Brandon Reid who's such

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Speaker 2: a great guy and a listener on the podcast, put

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Speaker 2: it together through his business Innovate with an E. Built

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Speaker 2: this awesome website. It's super eighties, super poppy. I'm very

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Speaker 2: proud of it. And I'm starting a newsletter just to

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Speaker 2: celebrate the whole thing.

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Speaker 3: And it's called The Josh Clarkway.

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Speaker 2: Did you look it up? Just now?

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Speaker 3: I'm trying but it's not loading.

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Speaker 2: Oh what else? We're cutting all this part out? Anyway?

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Speaker 4: Oh?

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Speaker 3: Wait, here we go.

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Speaker 2: Isn't it beautiful?

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Speaker 3: Well? Still loading? It's because of my old phone, it's

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Speaker 3: not because of your I appreciate that my phone just

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Speaker 3: can't handle your website.

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Speaker 2: There's so much to my website.

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Speaker 3: It's like, oh, there you are, Yeah, the Josh Clarkway

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Speaker 3: dot com.

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Speaker 2: And I also want to say you me help me

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Speaker 2: with the site too, so big ups and thank you

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Speaker 2: to you me and Brandon for helping me put this

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Speaker 2: thing together. So anyway, I just wanted to say, welcome website.

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Speaker 3: Oh, I got a new fun thing to do to.

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Speaker 2: Hang out on my website. Sure, sign up for the

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Speaker 2: newsletter too. While you're there. Oh this is great, Okay,

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Speaker 2: you're ready.

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Speaker 3: I'm glad I have this in my life.

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Speaker 2: Now you ready to get started.

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Speaker 3: Maybe I'll get a website one day.

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Speaker 2: You should get a website. It's like the new thing.

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Speaker 2: Everybody's it once. Yeah, So chuck, we're talking fall here,

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Speaker 2: which means there's only one word that comes to mind

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Speaker 2: every fall.

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Speaker 3: Pumpkins.

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Speaker 4: No.

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Speaker 3: The other word candy corn, no, diarrhea.

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Speaker 2: No. Amityville. Oh, and specifically two words, the Amityville Horror,

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Speaker 2: which is, for my money, one of the greatest horror

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Speaker 2: movies of all time.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, one of the great ones. And uh being a

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Speaker 3: kid in the nineteen seventies when this stuff was going

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Speaker 3: on and famous, yeah, Like, even as a little youngster,

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Speaker 3: I remember being terrified at that paperback. Oh yeah, in

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Speaker 3: the drug store when I would go by the paperbacks

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Speaker 3: and the look of that house just terrified me.

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Speaker 2: If the house looked any different, it be the story

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Speaker 2: would have had fifteen percent less spread.

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Speaker 3: Or did the house end up looking creepy because of

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Speaker 3: the lore it's just a colonial.

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Speaker 2: No, that house looked creepy. Well, yeah, if somebody, if

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Speaker 2: somebody didn't say this house is haunted and by the way,

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Speaker 2: look at it, right, you'd probably be like, oh, that's

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Speaker 2: an interesting looking house. But yeah, you put just even

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Speaker 2: the hint of a haunting to it, and that house was.

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Speaker 3: Well, it looked like it had eyes, right, which was

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Speaker 3: one of the key things. It's a colonial, but it's

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Speaker 3: one of those colonials that is situated sideways on the lot.

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Speaker 3: So from the street you saw the side of the house,

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Speaker 3: the chimney running down the side of the house, and

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Speaker 3: those two eye like windows on the top floor on

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Speaker 3: either side of the chimney.

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Speaker 2: Just amazing. Yeah, it was a Dutch colonial to be specific.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and if you Google maps that thing. Now, first

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Speaker 3: of all, it is not any longer one twelve Ocean Avenue.

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Speaker 3: It is now one oh eight Ocean Avenue because the owners,

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Speaker 3: at some point, whoever owned it, I think two or

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Speaker 3: three years ago, successfully lobbied to have the address officially changed.

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Speaker 3: It took them that long too, well I don't know

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Speaker 3: how long they had to battle, but they changed it

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Speaker 3: by four digits, like they'll never find a side exactly.

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Speaker 3: So I went and looked on the Google images, and

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Speaker 3: of course now it looks it's bright and sunny and

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Speaker 3: has a lovely yard, and it's in the middle of

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Speaker 3: a lovely neighborhood and there's a Chevy in the driveway

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Speaker 3: and an SUV and it just looks like any other house.

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Speaker 3: But it's still you know, if you monkey around with

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Speaker 3: Google you can see that image, right, And there are

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Speaker 3: big signs all over like no trespassing.

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Speaker 2: Sure, and they need them, believe me.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, people, just I feel sorry for homeowners since the letzes. Yes,

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Speaker 3: I don't feel sorry for them though. No, I don't

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Speaker 3: know either because they made up a bunch of malarkey.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's one way to put it. But we'll get

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Speaker 2: to that part later, all right, Sure, let's set the

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Speaker 2: scene here.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, true, horrific thing did occur there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think that kind of gets swept under

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Speaker 2: the rug a little bit overlooked, you know.

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Speaker 3: I agree.

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Speaker 2: On November thirteenth, nineteen seventy four, Ronnie Butch di Feo

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Speaker 2: Junior killed the other six members of his family. His

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Speaker 2: own family, his mother, his father, sure, his two sisters

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Speaker 2: Alison and Dawn, and his two younger brothers, Mark and John.

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Speaker 2: He's the older brother, killed his whole family.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, nine, twelve, thirteen, and eighteen ages. Yep, that is

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Speaker 3: just I mean, this is one of those crimes that

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Speaker 3: rightfully has gone down in American history is one of

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Speaker 3: the worst.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and yeah, like you said, rightfully, this guy was

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Speaker 2: a bad, bad dude from the outset. He denied doing

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Speaker 2: anything when he ran into a bar called Henry's Bar

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Speaker 2: in the little town of Amityville. I bet that place

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Speaker 2: is great, and I'll bet too, you know, And he said,

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Speaker 2: somebody just killed my family, and all the barb patrons

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Speaker 2: were like, I got to see this. And they ran

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Speaker 2: to one twelve Ocean Avenue with Ronnie to Fayo, and

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Speaker 2: they found all six members laying his face down on

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Speaker 2: their beds dead. I think their heads their faces resting

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Speaker 2: in their hands. And Ronnie de Feo said it was

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Speaker 2: the mafia.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, which I think his family had some tie somehow

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Speaker 3: to the mafia.

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Speaker 2: H had an uncle named Carmine, and that's that's all

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Speaker 2: you need right there.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but there was one, like a legit crime family

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Speaker 3: that had some tie to his family, so maybe he

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Speaker 3: just thought that was a good an alibi or whatever. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: it wasn't so good, No, And he killed them with

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Speaker 3: a thirty five caliber Marlin rifle, which did you look

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Speaker 3: this thing up? No, it's like the the Old West,

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Speaker 3: like lever action. Oh really, riding on a horse, you know,

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Speaker 3: cowboys and Indians kind of gun.

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Speaker 2: I expected the side bolt action carbo like a Lee

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Speaker 2: Harvey Oswald. Yes, that's what I would know.

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Speaker 3: This is like a boom boom.

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Speaker 2: That explains a lot, because one of the big mysteries

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Speaker 2: that still remains is why didn't the other family members

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Speaker 2: wake up?

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Speaker 3: Well, that's a big I mean I read a little

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Speaker 3: bit into the case, and that's definitely one of these

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Speaker 3: sticking points is because it's not like they were all

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Speaker 3: like three years old and fast asleep or something. I

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Speaker 3: mean one of them was eighteen, and so there were

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Speaker 3: a lot of variations of the story because of that

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Speaker 3: that one of the sisters helped kill the father, and

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Speaker 3: then the mother freaked out, so Ronald killed her. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: and like everyone was waking up, and I don't know,

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Speaker 3: I mean, it sounds like he just he did it

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Speaker 3: all himself.

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Speaker 2: I also saw that he had said years, like a

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Speaker 2: year after while he was being questioned, that he had

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Speaker 2: drugged them all with barbituates. But I only saw that once.

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Speaker 3: That would make a little more sense at least, right,

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Speaker 3: because you can't silence to this kind of I mean,

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Speaker 3: maybe you could have wrapped a pillow around it. But

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Speaker 3: it's not like a handgun, you know, right.

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Speaker 2: So he said it was the mob first, and then

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Speaker 2: he said that he did it, but there was a

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Speaker 2: really big caveat to that. He said that he had

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Speaker 2: been hearing voices that were urging him to kill his family,

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Speaker 2: and even during the murder, something was telling him to

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Speaker 2: continue and just keep killing, kill them all. And he

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Speaker 2: said he looked around and there was no one there.

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Speaker 2: So I just assumed it was God telling me to

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Speaker 2: kill so I and he killed again his whole family.

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Speaker 2: And I read this article in Vice magazine from like

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Speaker 2: twenty fourteen from some guy who said he spent like

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Speaker 2: five years in prison with Ronnie to Fayo and said, finally,

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Speaker 2: after befriending him over a couple of years, he finally

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Speaker 2: got to the truth. And the truth was he felt

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Speaker 2: like his parents treated his brothers and sisters better than him.

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Speaker 2: His parents didn't like the fact that he liked PCP

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Speaker 2: and LSD and heroin. Imagine that, so they got what

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Speaker 2: was coming to him basically, and he'd do it again.

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Speaker 3: I mean he I don't know, this is an armchair diagnosis,

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Speaker 3: but clearly if his reason is he liked my brothers

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Speaker 3: and sisters more. Yeah, Like he's has some sort of

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Speaker 3: serious mental issues going on for sure, but he did

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Speaker 3: not want Apparently his attorney talked him into talking about

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Speaker 3: God and voices because he was like, we can get

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Speaker 3: you a plea of insanity and he was like, I

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Speaker 3: don't want to do that. He's like, but you really should.

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Speaker 2: And he goes, no, I don't want to do that.

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Speaker 2: He goes, well, there may be a book deal in

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Speaker 2: your future if you claim this. He goes, oh, I

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Speaker 2: like books anyway.

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Speaker 3: What are books again? There are things that make you money.

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Speaker 2: And he's like, you know how you like carve out

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Speaker 2: the middle of those things and you keep your heroin

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Speaker 2: and PCP in there. That's a book.

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Speaker 3: So a real crime happened there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was. Let's just say it was a fateful

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Speaker 2: decision for him to say publicly that a voice had

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Speaker 2: urged him to kill his whole family. M m okay.

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Speaker 2: That would come into play pretty soon after that. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: after Ronnie de Fayo, I believe two weeks after he

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Speaker 2: was sentenced a year after the murders, and he got

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Speaker 2: sentenced to six consecutive life sentences.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he's still in jail.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, he will be forever.

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Speaker 3: I would guess, like he's alive though.

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Speaker 2: It is my point, right, right, you're right. About a

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Speaker 2: year after that, just like a year and a month

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Speaker 2: after the murders, a couple named George and Kathy bought

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Speaker 2: this place. And they bought it for a song. It

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Speaker 2: was eighty grand at a time when eighty grand was

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Speaker 2: a pretty good deal for a six bedroom Dutch colonial

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Speaker 2: in Amityville, New York.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and so there were a couple, well, they were

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Speaker 3: a couple with a couple of kids, well three, I

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Speaker 3: think nine year old Daniel, seven year ol Christopher at

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Speaker 3: the time, five year old Missy. We'll get to their

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Speaker 3: financial situation a little bit in more detail later, but

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Speaker 3: the thought was that George could run his even though

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Speaker 3: it was kind of a lot of money for them,

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Speaker 3: it was a good deal on the house and George

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Speaker 3: could run his business out of the house so save

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Speaker 3: on office space. He had a couple of boats. This

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Speaker 3: house came with a doc. He's like, I don't have

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Speaker 3: to pay marina storage fees, like you almost they almost

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Speaker 3: had to buy the house. It sounded like financially speaking, right.

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Speaker 2: It was just too good of a deal to pass up. Yeah, sure,

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Speaker 2: so they bought the house. Did you say they were

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Speaker 2: looking in the thirty to fifty range originally?

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Speaker 3: I don't think so.

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Speaker 2: So it was a stretch for him. But again, that's

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Speaker 2: how good the deal was. So they buy the house

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Speaker 2: and they move in, and apparently almost immediately things started

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Speaker 2: to get weird. Right, So Kathy was a Catholic, And

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Speaker 2: what do you do when you're a Catholic and you

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Speaker 2: buy a new house. You invite your priests over to

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Speaker 2: come bless the house. See you really, I guess in

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Speaker 2: the seventies in New York you did well.

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Speaker 3: I didn't know if that had anything to do with

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Speaker 3: the uh. I mean, did they know that the murders

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Speaker 3: had occurred there and just sort of didn't care?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up. Yes, And I

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Speaker 2: don't know that they didn't care. Supposedly, George Lutz later

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Speaker 2: said that, like after they said we're interested in this,

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Speaker 2: when the realtor was like, well, let me just tell

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Speaker 2: you one little detail. Just six big horrific murders, all right, yeah,

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Speaker 2: just a year ago. Yeah, sorry, we haven't cleaned up

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Speaker 2: the blood yet. Seriously, So they apparently took his second

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Speaker 2: to think about it and talk amongst themselves, like, is

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Speaker 2: it really botherus? This is such a good deal, and

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Speaker 2: they said not, the deal wins out over any superstitions

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Speaker 2: we have. So yes, they knew. And I don't know

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Speaker 2: if they hired them, brought the priest in because of

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Speaker 2: that or just to bless the house, but they brought

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Speaker 2: the priest in to bless the house.

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Speaker 3: You can burn a little sage, ye, or you can

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Speaker 3: call in a priest. I think they had to ramp

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Speaker 3: it up. They called in father Ralph Peccarero, and he

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Speaker 3: came in, and this is how the story goes, and

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Speaker 3: we'll just sort of tell it as it happens supposedly.

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Speaker 2: I think that's a great idea before we.

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Speaker 3: Start pooping all of it. So he comes in blesses

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Speaker 3: the house. Supposedly, he feels in one room in particular,

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Speaker 3: a very cold chill. He said, even though it was winter,

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Speaker 3: it was shouldn't have been this kind of cold. And

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Speaker 3: he hears a strong voice, a masculine voice, shout, get out, kid,

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Speaker 3: And then his car started acting weird. Apparently the hood

302
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Speaker 3: flew open and smashed the windshield, doors are unlocking and

303
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Speaker 3: opening his horn.

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Speaker 2: Went auga and he didn't even have one of those

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Speaker 2: kinds of horns.

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Speaker 3: The car stalled. And this is just the very beginning

307
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Speaker 3: of And if you've seen the movie, a lot of

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Speaker 3: this stuff that we're talking about is portrayed in the film.

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Speaker 2: Right, And it's Rod Steiger getting shouted at.

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Speaker 3: He's great, like flies where there shouldn't be flies. Yeah, Crucifix,

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Speaker 3: Crucifix is spinning what a pig well, smell of rotten

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Speaker 3: eggs in this hidden room that wasn't on any blueprint.

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Speaker 2: The red room the pigs. So there was a pantom

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Speaker 2: like pig beast with glowing red eyes that would look

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Speaker 2: in on the family from the outside and leave cloven

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Speaker 2: hoof prints in the snow, and little five year old

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Speaker 2: miss You would be like, oh, that's just my friend Jody.

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Speaker 3: Which makes it ten times way scarier, Like I would

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Speaker 3: rather have my kid say I don't know what that is,

320
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Speaker 3: I'm scared, rather than that's just Jodie.

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Speaker 2: Right, you know, Jody's been suggesting things.

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Speaker 3: What else they claimed? I think the dad claimed to

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Speaker 3: see Butch Dafeyo's face in a wall. He would wake

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Speaker 3: up every every night or a lot of nights at

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Speaker 3: three point fifteen in the morning, supposedly when these murders

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00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:31,840
Speaker 3: took place. Yeah, the kids started acting funny classic movie

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Speaker 3: haunting stuff.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a very weird situation for him. Things

329
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Speaker 2: were tense. They were all like they had like hair

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Speaker 2: triggered tempers. They were all yelling at each other, apparently

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Speaker 2: very uncharacteristically. And supposedly George Lotts, I've seen him described

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Speaker 2: as a ex marine who was an expert in karate,

333
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Speaker 2: which again, this is a seventies so everybody was into

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Speaker 2: karate back then.

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Speaker 3: Sure, Elvis had a black belt.

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00:16:56,400 --> 00:17:00,360
Speaker 2: Sure, and he he was like a no nonsense kind

337
00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:03,240
Speaker 2: of guy. No nonsense right, yeah, like me. So he's like,

338
00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:09,600
Speaker 2: what's going on? And he goes to the local Amityville

339
00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:13,399
Speaker 2: Historical Society and says, I want to know everything you

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Speaker 2: have on one twelve Ocean Avenue.

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Speaker 3: And it got quiet in the room and.

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00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:22,520
Speaker 2: The guy was like, come with me. So he George

343
00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:26,960
Speaker 2: finds out that their house is probably built on Shinnacock

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Speaker 2: Indian land. That was a big one.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, not only that, but supposedly where this Native American

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00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:37,760
Speaker 3: tribe used as a sick bay for the for the

347
00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:41,920
Speaker 3: mentally insane. That's how they put it right. And this

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Speaker 3: is where they would just keep all of those people

349
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Speaker 3: where they were just sort of left to die there,

350
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Speaker 3: so it was haunted by them.

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Speaker 2: It was the kind of place where they just get

352
00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:52,000
Speaker 2: dropped off and the people would kind of back slowly

353
00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:55,480
Speaker 2: away like okay, take care, see you later, and they

354
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Speaker 2: would die. And no one wants to be treated like that,

355
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Speaker 2: So of course anyone who's left to die right there

356
00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:02,760
Speaker 2: on that land like that would obviously haunt the land.

357
00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:06,120
Speaker 2: There was some other there were some other legends about

358
00:18:06,119 --> 00:18:11,400
Speaker 2: what was behind it too. There was like an abandoned

359
00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:13,639
Speaker 2: cemetery pretty straight up on the nose.

360
00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:21,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, there was a Salem witch guy that supposedly sacrificed animals.

361
00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:23,840
Speaker 2: John Ketchum. And there actually was a John Ketchum who

362
00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:29,080
Speaker 2: lived somewhat in the area around that time, but he'd

363
00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:32,159
Speaker 2: never been accused of being a witch. And then I

364
00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:35,080
Speaker 2: saw an interview with a guy named Hans Holzer, who's

365
00:18:35,119 --> 00:18:40,719
Speaker 2: a bonafide parapsychologist and doctor. Holzer says that it all

366
00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:44,399
Speaker 2: started in nineteen twenty eight or nineteen oh five, when

367
00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:46,320
Speaker 2: the original house there was a house that was built

368
00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:49,359
Speaker 2: in the seventeen twenties that was moved. When that house

369
00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:54,159
Speaker 2: was moved in nineteen oh five, it disturbed an Indian

370
00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:58,320
Speaker 2: chief's grave, a Native American chief's grave, and somebody played

371
00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:02,680
Speaker 2: with his skull like a soccer ball, and he's been

372
00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:04,960
Speaker 2: mad about it ever since. And that is what drove

373
00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:08,320
Speaker 2: Ronnie to Fayo to kill and that is what terrorized

374
00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:11,639
Speaker 2: the lutz Is, And that's the whole problem. Everybody just

375
00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:16,159
Speaker 2: calmed down. That's it. So there's a little bit of

376
00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:20,720
Speaker 2: a little bit of peace falling into the puzzle. They're

377
00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:23,560
Speaker 2: figuring it out, but it's not making anything better. In fact,

378
00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:27,040
Speaker 2: everything's getting worse, Like this stuff's getting worse and worse

379
00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:31,000
Speaker 2: and worse. And finally everything culminates on this one stormy

380
00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:36,320
Speaker 2: night when their door blows open, blows off of the

381
00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:39,640
Speaker 2: hinges outward into the street I believe, or no, into

382
00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:42,199
Speaker 2: the house. I can't remember which way, but blown off

383
00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:43,879
Speaker 2: of the hinges. It's like a two hundred and fifty

384
00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:48,560
Speaker 2: pound door, and the windows, the iconic eyeball or eye

385
00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:52,119
Speaker 2: windows blow out. Some of the glass somehow blows in.

386
00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:57,800
Speaker 2: It's just an enormous explosion of energy, and the family leaves.

387
00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:03,119
Speaker 2: They just left the house after like twenty eight days supposedly. Yeah,

388
00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:05,480
Speaker 2: well no, they definitely, they definitely left the house.

389
00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:07,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, but neighbors say they left in ten days.

390
00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:09,240
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, one of the two.

391
00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:12,200
Speaker 3: But they's still The point is there are discrepancies all

392
00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:12,760
Speaker 3: over the place.

393
00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:15,440
Speaker 2: Oh we'll get to those. Yeah, we'll get to those.

394
00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:19,080
Speaker 2: But they left, and this is true. They left all

395
00:20:19,119 --> 00:20:22,080
Speaker 2: of their possessions in this house and just fled.

396
00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:23,200
Speaker 3: And that part is true.

397
00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:24,120
Speaker 2: Never went back.

398
00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:28,640
Speaker 3: Uh yeah, unless they had a sneaky little moving team

399
00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:31,040
Speaker 3: with a uhaul in the dead of night from go

400
00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:33,240
Speaker 3: back and get our stuff from under story.

401
00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:34,960
Speaker 2: There's stuff got auctioned off.

402
00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:35,640
Speaker 3: Yeah it did.

403
00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:38,359
Speaker 2: I mean they left it. They had, They grabbed some clothes,

404
00:20:38,359 --> 00:20:40,280
Speaker 2: and they took off into the night.

405
00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:44,119
Speaker 3: And which will go on later to be one of

406
00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:48,520
Speaker 3: the key selling points that this really happened, because people

407
00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:50,240
Speaker 3: that were on their side were like, why would they

408
00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:54,000
Speaker 3: do that? Yeah, on just the gambit of this being

409
00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:56,920
Speaker 3: a hoax that would eventually make the money, Right, would

410
00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:58,679
Speaker 3: they really leave all their stuff behind?

411
00:20:58,840 --> 00:20:59,720
Speaker 2: Could anybody be.

412
00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:04,159
Speaker 3: That Foolish's take a break and we'll find out right

413
00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:04,520
Speaker 3: after this.

414
00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:38,000
Speaker 4: Stop you should know, stop.

415
00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:35,600
Speaker 3: You should I should know all right, So they get

416
00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:40,320
Speaker 3: the heck out of Dodge, they leave, they contact an

417
00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:41,560
Speaker 3: author named Jay Anson.

418
00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:43,080
Speaker 2: Oh even before that.

419
00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:46,200
Speaker 3: Well, I was going to get to the attorney. Is

420
00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:50,760
Speaker 3: that really so? Princess Hall as the publisher, in nineteen

421
00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:53,679
Speaker 3: seventy seven released The Amity of a Horror was a

422
00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:59,000
Speaker 3: huge bestseller, forty two weeks on the bestseller list by

423
00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:02,200
Speaker 3: nineteen eighty one, six and a half million copies. They

424
00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:06,040
Speaker 3: were all over the country plugging this book, right, and

425
00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:08,640
Speaker 3: where the letses were household names. They're like on every

426
00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:09,879
Speaker 3: talk show you could imagine.

427
00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:15,040
Speaker 2: I want to underscore that. In nineteen seventy seven there

428
00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:18,840
Speaker 2: was a family from New York who claimed to have

429
00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:22,560
Speaker 2: been driven from their home by a supernatural evil force.

430
00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:28,960
Speaker 2: And they were international celebrities for it. Yeah, reason number

431
00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:33,440
Speaker 2: five million and eighty Why the seventies were just awesome. Yeah,

432
00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:36,439
Speaker 2: Like that's what you could be famous for, was saying like,

433
00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:39,679
Speaker 2: ghosts chased us out of our house. And everybody'd be like,

434
00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:40,880
Speaker 2: that's a great story.

435
00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:43,320
Speaker 3: Should we jump ahead and talk about that attorney?

436
00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:43,960
Speaker 2: Yes?

437
00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:44,840
Speaker 3: Great?

438
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:48,240
Speaker 2: So what was the guy's name, Bill Weber?

439
00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:51,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is where things get really hinky, is that

440
00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:55,320
Speaker 3: Bill Weber is an attorney, and he's the one that

441
00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:58,560
Speaker 3: sort of gets every I think he's the one that

442
00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:01,960
Speaker 3: saw dollar signs initially and gets a team together for

443
00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:07,880
Speaker 3: this book and starts saying to everybody, including Dafao, Hey,

444
00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:10,399
Speaker 3: we can all make some money if we do a

445
00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:12,760
Speaker 3: book here. Dafeo's got to get a cut though.

446
00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:13,120
Speaker 2: Sure.

447
00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:15,400
Speaker 3: The Lutzes were like, what are you're going to pay

448
00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:16,080
Speaker 3: the murderer?

449
00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:19,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he was like, yeah, it's my client.

450
00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:22,560
Speaker 3: And they said, we're not We're not down with that plan.

451
00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:27,879
Speaker 2: Yes, but this came after they had formed basically a

452
00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:31,760
Speaker 2: business relationship, but not even in an attorney client relationship, straight

453
00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:33,720
Speaker 2: up business relationship with William Webber.

454
00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:35,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, like, how can we make money off of this?

455
00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:38,840
Speaker 2: So the way that the world heard about these things

456
00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:41,280
Speaker 2: going on at one twelve Ocean Avenue for the first

457
00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:44,440
Speaker 2: time ever was at a press conference that the lts

458
00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:47,720
Speaker 2: Is held at William Weber's office. That was when the

459
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:50,960
Speaker 2: world was introduced to the idea of this Amityville horror,

460
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:52,280
Speaker 2: even before the book ever.

461
00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:56,280
Speaker 3: Came out for anyone, at least not locally.

462
00:23:56,119 --> 00:24:00,280
Speaker 2: Right, right, So, so Bill Weber and the LUTs says

463
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:04,080
Speaker 2: they they had Yeah, they had kind of like a tentative,

464
00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:10,000
Speaker 2: tenuous relationship. And when Prentis Hall came along and Jay

465
00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:12,520
Speaker 2: Anson came along. I don't know if Jay Anson poached

466
00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:17,560
Speaker 2: them or Prentis Hall poached them, but whoever was involved

467
00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:22,120
Speaker 2: with the Amityville Horror book got the Lutzes away from

468
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:26,000
Speaker 2: William Weber and his book Ida and Proposal, and he

469
00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:28,679
Speaker 2: got cut out of the deal. Just put that in

470
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:32,680
Speaker 2: your bonnet and smoke it and save it for later, Okay.

471
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:36,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, and supposedly left because again they didn't want to

472
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:38,840
Speaker 3: give DeFeo a cut or they just wanted a bigger

473
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:42,199
Speaker 3: cut themselves. Yeah, at this point, it's a it's all

474
00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:47,720
Speaker 3: about money, right, But jumping back or forward, can't remember

475
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:50,680
Speaker 3: where we are in time, but they're all over the country,

476
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:52,000
Speaker 3: all over the news.

477
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:54,360
Speaker 2: This would have been about nineteen seventy seven to seventy eight.

478
00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:59,119
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're on MERV Griffin. There's they had a ghost

479
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:02,560
Speaker 3: team of ghosts TNS come by from Channel five in

480
00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:06,000
Speaker 3: New York. Yeah, WPIX and had people posted in the

481
00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:09,240
Speaker 3: house overnight taking all these photographs. There's one now very

482
00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:13,199
Speaker 3: famous photograph of uh and it's creepy looking, but you

483
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:15,359
Speaker 3: take a picture of anyone in black and white in

484
00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:18,000
Speaker 3: the dark, poking their head around a corner, and it

485
00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:18,800
Speaker 3: looked creepy.

486
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:21,119
Speaker 2: So let me I want to comment on that picture.

487
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:21,960
Speaker 2: Have you seen it?

488
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:22,160
Speaker 1: Sure?

489
00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:22,760
Speaker 3: Oh creepy.

490
00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:27,320
Speaker 2: It is creepy. The the it's chalked up to some

491
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:30,159
Speaker 2: of the paranormal investigators, one of like one of the

492
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:34,240
Speaker 2: men who was at that WPIX seance fest at the

493
00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:38,080
Speaker 2: house getting in front of the camera.

494
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:41,679
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're saying that one of the uh Paul Bart's

495
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:43,720
Speaker 3: that it was just one of the ghost hunters.

496
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:46,560
Speaker 2: So that was a grown man. Whoever's in the picture

497
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:49,960
Speaker 2: is a kid, just plain as day. There's no there's

498
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:52,080
Speaker 2: no confusing that for a grown man.

499
00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:56,080
Speaker 3: I think so. So unless he was had a boyish face.

500
00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:57,760
Speaker 2: I think it's a very bizarre picture.

501
00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 3: I mean no, I think it's bizarre.

502
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:03,399
Speaker 2: And supposedly it was taken with infrared film in the dark,

503
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:06,040
Speaker 2: and again it doesn't look like a man.

504
00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:08,320
Speaker 3: Which is that's why the eyes are glowing, right.

505
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:11,119
Speaker 2: That explains that. It's the fact that it's clearly the

506
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:14,119
Speaker 2: face of a boy. Are you going under the Josh

507
00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:15,359
Speaker 2: clarkway dot com again?

508
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:17,240
Speaker 3: I'm trying to find that picture again.

509
00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:19,399
Speaker 2: It's clearly the face of a boy that's not a

510
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:21,720
Speaker 2: man's face. That's the thing that sticks out to me.

511
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:26,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it certainly looks like a boy. Man,

512
00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:29,200
Speaker 3: it is creepy and also so it's got to be

513
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:29,639
Speaker 3: a boy.

514
00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:31,840
Speaker 2: And that's what it looks like to me, and it's

515
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:34,840
Speaker 2: got to be. This picture was debuted in the nineteen

516
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:38,440
Speaker 2: seventy seven seventy eight by George Lutz on the MERV

517
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 2: Griffin Show.

518
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:40,480
Speaker 3: But they could have set that up. Could have been.

519
00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:44,280
Speaker 2: They could have and we we say, whatever, have you

520
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:45,120
Speaker 2: seen the conjuring?

521
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:48,720
Speaker 3: I think I've seen parts of it. But that's the

522
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:49,719
Speaker 3: real life couple.

523
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:51,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, Ed and Lorraine Warren.

524
00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:53,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, who hooked up with these I mean this is

525
00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:54,480
Speaker 3: where they got their start kind.

526
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 2: Of right, kind of They basically had like an occult museum.

527
00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:01,399
Speaker 2: They were like a psychic and psychic investigators in Connecticut

528
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:04,679
Speaker 2: like you do. And the guy Marvin Scott who was

529
00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 2: the anchor who investigated the Amityville Horror for the WPIX

530
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:14,239
Speaker 2: local Channel five station, Yeah, he invited them to come

531
00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:17,119
Speaker 2: out to this seance and it was like a series

532
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:19,440
Speaker 2: of siances that they filmed and you can actually see

533
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:25,640
Speaker 2: this look up WPIX News eleven Marvin Scott Part one,

534
00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:29,560
Speaker 2: and it's like a nineteen ninety eight retrospective of this case,

535
00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:31,680
Speaker 2: and it has some of the footage from the seance,

536
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:34,400
Speaker 2: but it also has an interview with George and Lorraine

537
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:37,439
Speaker 2: Warren and they're basically like, this was real. This is

538
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:41,280
Speaker 2: obviously real. And during these seances, supposedly the psychics started

539
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:44,359
Speaker 2: to feel sick. Lorrain Warren said she felt an evil

540
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:46,800
Speaker 2: presence from the bowels of the earth in the house.

541
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:50,600
Speaker 2: And then that picture, that famous photograph was taken.

542
00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 3: So I think the Warrens are the ones too that

543
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:57,200
Speaker 3: said why would they leave all of their stuff behind? Sure,

544
00:27:57,280 --> 00:27:59,959
Speaker 3: and they also said, well, we would not be involved,

545
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:01,679
Speaker 3: that this was some sort of a hoax.

546
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 2: Right exactly.

547
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 3: Don't you know who we are proof positive?

548
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:05,080
Speaker 2: Right?

549
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:05,800
Speaker 3: Yeah?

550
00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:08,520
Speaker 2: But the yeah, the real life Warrens were. They did

551
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:12,560
Speaker 2: investigate the Sanityville House in the early seventies or mid seventies,

552
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:14,160
Speaker 2: early on after the story broke.

553
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:16,920
Speaker 3: You also know it was the seventies because they were

554
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:22,360
Speaker 3: featured on Leonard de Mooy's Great show in Search of Love,

555
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:24,840
Speaker 3: which we both used to love, and of course they

556
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:27,760
Speaker 3: covered that in nineteen seventy nine, supposedly got the priest

557
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:29,960
Speaker 3: on there, even though he wanted to be kept anonymous,

558
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:35,120
Speaker 3: and he or whoever it was, kind of reinforced this

559
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:38,920
Speaker 3: cold room get out scream.

560
00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:41,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, it just went just double down on it. His

561
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:46,479
Speaker 2: face was hidden in the book, I think the jaynsm book.

562
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:50,080
Speaker 2: There were three source materials that came out about this story,

563
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:52,640
Speaker 2: all within a couple of years of each other. There

564
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:57,520
Speaker 2: was a Good Housekeeping article which is hilarious. Yeah, there

565
00:28:57,560 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 2: was the JAYANSM.

566
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:01,720
Speaker 3: Book, and then there was a book, and then there.

567
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:03,720
Speaker 2: Was a movie. Yes, and those three are like the

568
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:07,200
Speaker 2: source material for what everybody knows about the Amityville legend.

569
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:10,640
Speaker 2: But what Leonard Nimoy pointed out is that you know,

570
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:14,320
Speaker 2: this movie was it's huge, everybody loves it. But what

571
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:16,440
Speaker 2: a lot of people don't know is that it's a

572
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:19,720
Speaker 2: true story. He says, it's a true story.

573
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 3: The book said it was a true story. But Leonard on.

574
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:25,760
Speaker 2: The cover, I just I just I expected more from

575
00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:29,240
Speaker 2: Leonard Neimoy than that. He says, unequivocally, it's a true story.

576
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:31,920
Speaker 3: That's because that's what the script, the teleprompter said.

577
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:35,040
Speaker 2: Well, anyway, that was a great episode of In Search

578
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:35,680
Speaker 2: of anyway.

579
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, So in nineteen seventy nine, the very famous film

580
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 3: adaptation of this book comes out, starring James Berlin and

581
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:48,200
Speaker 3: Margo Kidder as the Lutzes, and it was a big,

582
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 3: big hit, eighty million dollars in domestic release, which was

583
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:56,280
Speaker 3: I didn't do the conversion, but a very good haul

584
00:29:56,560 --> 00:30:00,000
Speaker 3: for nineteen seventy nine, one of the smash hits. Yeah

585
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:01,240
Speaker 3: of that year, for sure.

586
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:05,600
Speaker 2: I think it was close to three hundred million probably.

587
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:07,200
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, good money.

588
00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:09,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean this is back in the time when

589
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:11,600
Speaker 2: like movies didn't routinely make a billion dollars in an

590
00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:14,440
Speaker 2: opening weekend, right, that was a ton of cash.

591
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 4: Yeah.

592
00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 3: There were a lot of really bad sequels that, no doubt,

593
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:21,520
Speaker 3: just kind of threw out the whole legend of the

594
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:23,600
Speaker 3: house and just did whatever they want with that name.

595
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:25,640
Speaker 2: Have you seen any of them? I haven't.

596
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 3: I haven't seen any of the sequels, Nor did I

597
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:29,640
Speaker 3: see the remake recently.

598
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:30,240
Speaker 2: With Ryan Reynolds.

599
00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:31,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, did you see that?

600
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:31,200
Speaker 4: No?

601
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 3: I don't remember the original movie that much, and to

602
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:36,680
Speaker 3: be honest, I don't know if ever saw it all

603
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:41,080
Speaker 3: the way through. I mean I was way too young

604
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 3: to see anything like this. So it would have been.

605
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:45,480
Speaker 2: It's still around. They didn't burn a whole copy.

606
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:46,920
Speaker 3: I know. That's the whole point though, is I would

607
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:49,520
Speaker 3: have had to have seen this years and years later.

608
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 3: I don't know that I ever did.

609
00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:53,320
Speaker 2: It's worth seeing. It's a great horror film.

610
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:54,719
Speaker 3: Like I've seen a lot of the parts.

611
00:30:55,520 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 2: James James Beard, Little Miss for Jodie's Friend is a

612
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:03,400
Speaker 2: little creep show.

613
00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:05,360
Speaker 3: And who played Jody. I don't know.

614
00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:07,520
Speaker 2: Who played her, but like, yeah, the kids did good.

615
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 2: Rod Steiger was the priest. He was great.

616
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:11,760
Speaker 3: I remember seeing that scene, so I've definitely seen parts

617
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:11,880
Speaker 3: of it.

618
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:14,480
Speaker 2: Yule Brenner was the good voice.

619
00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:15,520
Speaker 3: Was he really.

620
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:17,920
Speaker 2: Sorry that.

621
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:24,120
Speaker 3: They actually didn't shoot at that Ocean Avenue house? Though,

622
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:26,640
Speaker 3: of course, you know with a movie like this, the

623
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 3: law is kind of usually not true, and the law

624
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:32,800
Speaker 3: was that they the crew was too scared to shoot there.

625
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:34,920
Speaker 3: It's not true. They couldn't get a permit. So they

626
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:37,440
Speaker 3: shot at eighteen Brooks Road, Tom's River in New Jersey

627
00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:42,080
Speaker 3: and built a superstructure around the house to make it

628
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 3: look like the other house, which was just like a

629
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:45,280
Speaker 3: couple hours from there.

630
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:50,120
Speaker 2: Right the town of Amityville said no, we don't want

631
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:53,960
Speaker 2: anything like this, no publicity like this. Please. This was

632
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 2: a tragedy. We like our quiet, sleepy town the way

633
00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:59,240
Speaker 2: it is. No, we're not giving you a permit to

634
00:31:59,240 --> 00:31:59,760
Speaker 2: shoot here.

635
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:02,959
Speaker 3: Yes, so, but Tom's River was like bring it.

636
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:07,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, nobody knows about us. Who's Tom anyway? We don't

637
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:11,520
Speaker 2: know does a river? So the movie, like you said,

638
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:13,840
Speaker 2: it was a huge smash hit, And it's just like

639
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:16,560
Speaker 2: the Lutzes were already kind of household names. That changed

640
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:22,520
Speaker 2: everything that that the Amityville Hohrror became part of American

641
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:26,760
Speaker 2: popular culture. Like yeah, it was cemented into it. And

642
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:30,080
Speaker 2: it was also cemented in that this is based on

643
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:32,160
Speaker 2: a true story. Maybe the movie blew at a little

644
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:35,760
Speaker 2: labor abortion, as movies will do, but the Lutzes were

645
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 2: driven from their house by an evil spirit and a

646
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:41,360
Speaker 2: lot of this stuff was true. Isn't that nuts?

647
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:44,560
Speaker 3: Yeah? And it was that period in the late seventies where,

648
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 3: like we talked about it with the Bermuda Triangle was

649
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:49,360
Speaker 3: a big deal.

650
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:50,760
Speaker 2: And waterbeds were huge.

651
00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 3: Waterbeds were big, But I feel like there was just

652
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:57,560
Speaker 3: there wasn't as much stuff. There wasn't as much content,

653
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:02,680
Speaker 3: a bigger deal. Yeah, like Amityville, like you said, it

654
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:05,280
Speaker 3: was part of it wasn't just oh that horror movie,

655
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:08,560
Speaker 3: like it was spoofed on Johnny Carson and it was

656
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:09,960
Speaker 3: like it was all over the place.

657
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:10,760
Speaker 4: Uh huh.

658
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:12,920
Speaker 3: It was like part of the fabric of America.

659
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 2: But I wonder if people bought into and thought about

660
00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:18,840
Speaker 2: this stuff like you were saying, because there was like

661
00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:22,719
Speaker 2: nothing was grabbing their attention every thirty seconds over over here,

662
00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:25,400
Speaker 2: look over here, we're here, Like it could like really

663
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:29,240
Speaker 2: kind of ruminate on something and let it like stew.

664
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:33,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, like now a show can win Best Show Emmy

665
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:35,160
Speaker 3: Award and you're like, I've never even heard of that.

666
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 2: Yeah.

667
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 3: Too much stuff, A lot of stuff out there, But

668
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:40,040
Speaker 3: is that better or worse?

669
00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:43,840
Speaker 2: Like I feel like it's it is true that things

670
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:47,280
Speaker 2: can just change and they're not necessarily worse or better.

671
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 2: But I also believe that it is possible for things

672
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:54,560
Speaker 2: to get objectively worse now, whether like they are or

673
00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:58,080
Speaker 2: not right now, who knows. I don't think anybody's ever

674
00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:00,400
Speaker 2: lived long enough to be like, I'm a thousan years

675
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:02,640
Speaker 2: old and it is way worse these days than it

676
00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:03,960
Speaker 2: was five hundred years ago.

677
00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:06,680
Speaker 3: Now, are you talking about entertainment content or.

678
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:09,680
Speaker 2: Just general culture everything being alive.

679
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:15,359
Speaker 3: See, I think entertainment wise, it's better because yeah, yeah,

680
00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:17,319
Speaker 3: I mean back then it was just like everyone got

681
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:21,440
Speaker 3: obsessed with Amyville because it was the only thing around

682
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:27,239
Speaker 3: obsessed with and it wasn't even great, you know, but

683
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:29,760
Speaker 3: it was here. Just take this schlocky thing and obsess

684
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:30,120
Speaker 3: over it.

685
00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:33,400
Speaker 2: But you're saying it wasn't great compared to today's standards,

686
00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:36,920
Speaker 2: but back then, like it was great. It was something

687
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:40,160
Speaker 2: that like you could maybe you could basically put on

688
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:43,399
Speaker 2: like a cloak and wear around for a year and

689
00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:48,160
Speaker 2: really really be into the Amityville or rather than you know,

690
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:51,640
Speaker 2: like the cameraman missed that shot by like an eighth

691
00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:55,239
Speaker 2: of an angela. That's the critical detail that people have today,

692
00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:57,719
Speaker 2: and I think it keeps us from enjoying stuff like

693
00:34:57,880 --> 00:34:59,879
Speaker 2: they used to be able to in the seventies. That's

694
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:01,520
Speaker 2: but I think that's my point.

695
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:02,680
Speaker 3: Plus, we were all doped up.

696
00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:06,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a lot of grass, but really terrible grass.

697
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:08,560
Speaker 2: That's one thing that's gotten better is the grass from

698
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:09,440
Speaker 2: what I understand.

699
00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:14,759
Speaker 3: All Right, so maybe we maybe we can take a

700
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:18,880
Speaker 3: break now and then we can start poking holes in

701
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:22,000
Speaker 3: this thing. Start, Does that sound good?

702
00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:22,439
Speaker 2: Yeah?

703
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:49,920
Speaker 4: Stop?

704
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:52,440
Speaker 3: Should I should know? All right? So I insists we

705
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:53,719
Speaker 3: have not poked any holes yet.

706
00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:57,239
Speaker 2: There's some dents in there that we've kind of put

707
00:35:57,239 --> 00:35:57,960
Speaker 2: our fingers in.

708
00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:03,839
Speaker 3: I've just been snidely laughing at everything we say, like yeah, right, yeah,

709
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:05,959
Speaker 3: but here's some of the holes and there are quite

710
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:09,960
Speaker 3: a few. Yeah, I kind of mentioned before. Neighbors say

711
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:13,239
Speaker 3: that they left like a week and a half enter

712
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:16,520
Speaker 3: their stay in this house. The let's just said twenty

713
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:17,520
Speaker 3: eight days.

714
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:20,359
Speaker 2: So right out of the gate, you've got a discrepancy.

715
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:21,040
Speaker 4: Yeah. And the.

716
00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:24,920
Speaker 3: Kind of what the thinking was and still is to

717
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:28,480
Speaker 3: some people is that they couldn't afford this house. Didn't

718
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:30,200
Speaker 3: take them long to realize it, and so they cooked

719
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:30,840
Speaker 3: up this story.

720
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, but imagine figuring that out in ten days. That's

721
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:35,800
Speaker 2: a little weird.

722
00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:38,440
Speaker 3: Well, and I also don't know how that would get

723
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:40,960
Speaker 3: them out of their mortgage, just defaulting on it, yeah,

724
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:41,760
Speaker 3: because it's haunted.

725
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:44,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, just walking away like can't get blood from a stone.

726
00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:45,919
Speaker 2: Go take the house if you want it back.

727
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:48,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, but could they claim that it wasn't disclosed? If

728
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:50,960
Speaker 3: it was disclosed, like, how could they literally get out

729
00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:51,719
Speaker 3: of the mortgage.

730
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:54,160
Speaker 2: I don't know, man, I think like I think, if

731
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:57,600
Speaker 2: you if you stop making payments, if you don't care

732
00:36:57,680 --> 00:36:59,880
Speaker 2: about your credit and I'm not sure what it was

733
00:36:59,880 --> 00:37:02,399
Speaker 2: like in the seventies, but if you're like, I'll take

734
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:03,839
Speaker 2: this hit for seven years on my.

735
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:05,240
Speaker 3: Credit, right, just walk away.

736
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:07,719
Speaker 2: And just walk away, like then you don't have to

737
00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:11,360
Speaker 2: make payments anymore. Yeah, that's what I think happened. But

738
00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:14,440
Speaker 2: I don't think that they were able to do that

739
00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:17,960
Speaker 2: because they started making money from their story, and everyone

740
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:20,480
Speaker 2: knew that they were making money from their story, so

741
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:22,439
Speaker 2: people wanted their money from them.

742
00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:27,320
Speaker 3: Right, that's incredible. The great show from nineteen eighties. You

743
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:27,880
Speaker 3: just watch that.

744
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:29,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, I watched the episode that this was on.

745
00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:33,040
Speaker 3: But did you watch it as a kid? U A great,

746
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:35,080
Speaker 3: great show and on this show.

747
00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:38,640
Speaker 2: Sorry, it was really positive. Do you remember it seemed

748
00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:39,400
Speaker 2: pretty upbeat.

749
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:43,000
Speaker 3: Well, it's called that's incredible, not like that's crappy.

750
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:46,839
Speaker 2: The cameraman missed that shot and it was.

751
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:49,720
Speaker 3: I think it even had an exclamation point, didn't it. Yeah,

752
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:52,320
Speaker 3: at the end of the title. Yeah, so that's incredible.

753
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:57,120
Speaker 3: Barbara Camardi owned the house at the time of this episode,

754
00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:00,319
Speaker 3: walks them through and shows like close up. So the

755
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:03,040
Speaker 3: hinges of that front door. Yeah, and these windows that

756
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:05,880
Speaker 3: are still sealed. It was like these things didn't blow.

757
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:09,400
Speaker 2: No, she went out of her way to make sure

758
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:13,000
Speaker 2: that everyone knew that this stuff hadn't happened, and ironically

759
00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:18,480
Speaker 2: she exaggerated the facts that the skeptics pointed to. So

760
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:22,040
Speaker 2: everybody was exaggerating their case on either side of this.

761
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:25,839
Speaker 3: But Leut's also said though, that no, no, no, there were

762
00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:28,520
Speaker 3: pictures in the newspaper of that front door blown out.

763
00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:29,440
Speaker 2: Have you seen the picture?

764
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:31,799
Speaker 3: Well, no, I didn't think anyone could find it.

765
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:35,520
Speaker 2: It's a screen door that's kind of like hanging open. Yeah,

766
00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:37,920
Speaker 2: I'm not kidding. That's the picture from what I understand.

767
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:40,880
Speaker 3: All right, so it's all falling apart, then.

768
00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:44,520
Speaker 2: Right, oh yeah, it's all falling apart. For it has

769
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:47,560
Speaker 2: fallen apart big time. Apparently. George Lotts died in two

770
00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:50,040
Speaker 2: thousand and six and to his dying day said that

771
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:52,480
Speaker 2: all of this is true. He said, yeah, man, the

772
00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:55,000
Speaker 2: book got a bunch of stuff wrong. The movie got

773
00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:57,800
Speaker 2: a ton of stuff wrong. Because I think the Ryan

774
00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:00,960
Speaker 2: Reynolds remake of the movie was supposedly build is this

775
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:04,719
Speaker 2: is way more true to the book. Oh really, the

776
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:07,080
Speaker 2: original movie kind of created its own stuff, which is

777
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:10,200
Speaker 2: why it's viewed as one of an additional source rather

778
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:14,399
Speaker 2: than just part and parcel with the book. So George

779
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:17,479
Speaker 2: Lets would say, all these people got all these details wrong,

780
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:21,319
Speaker 2: but this this stuff we said happen really happened. Part

781
00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:23,239
Speaker 2: of the problem is some of the stuff that they

782
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:26,680
Speaker 2: said happened was like levitating off the bed and looking

783
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:29,000
Speaker 2: at each other going, can you believe we're levitating?

784
00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:29,319
Speaker 3: Yeah?

785
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:31,400
Speaker 2: I saw an interview where he said that in public

786
00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:32,200
Speaker 2: on camera.

787
00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:37,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, he really like, kudos to him for sticking to it. Yeah.

788
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:40,080
Speaker 3: I would say deathbed is a perfect time to be like,

789
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:44,480
Speaker 3: guess what everybody isn't Everyone would be like yeah, no, no,

790
00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:45,799
Speaker 3: like you guys knew.

791
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:51,360
Speaker 2: No, s I love that this is a family show.

792
00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:52,640
Speaker 3: Yeah.

793
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:56,839
Speaker 2: So George Lets went to his grave saying, no, this

794
00:39:56,920 --> 00:40:00,800
Speaker 2: is this is for real. William Webber, Bill Webber, the attorney,

795
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:02,759
Speaker 2: did quite the opposite of that.

796
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:07,880
Speaker 3: Well, he said, and of course LUTs will paint. This

797
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:11,240
Speaker 3: is probably painted. This is sour grapes. Sure, because Weber

798
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:13,640
Speaker 3: was cut out of the money deal, but as soon

799
00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:17,200
Speaker 3: as they left and made their own book deal, he

800
00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:19,960
Speaker 3: started barking that this is all bs, this is a

801
00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:20,880
Speaker 3: hoax that we made up.

802
00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:24,879
Speaker 2: He totally did that. He said that over about three

803
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:30,200
Speaker 2: bottles of wine, he and George and Kathy Lutz concocted

804
00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:31,960
Speaker 2: the story out of whole cloth.

805
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:35,520
Speaker 3: And then had a smoking night of love making the

806
00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:36,120
Speaker 3: three of them.

807
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:41,520
Speaker 2: On their waterbed. Geez took a sexy turn all of

808
00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:45,319
Speaker 2: a sudden. Sure, so yeah, Bill Weber, he said that.

809
00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:48,840
Speaker 2: He said, Hey, I was just looking to get another

810
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:52,840
Speaker 2: trial from my client, who I think was innocent and insane.

811
00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:57,360
Speaker 2: What the Lutzes were doing was going after money. But

812
00:40:57,760 --> 00:40:59,960
Speaker 2: you can also look at it like running to fay

813
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:02,640
Speaker 2: was the greatest thing that ever happened to Bill Weber's career.

814
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:06,120
Speaker 2: He even said at the time, like, I'm giving Ronnie

815
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:08,560
Speaker 2: to Fayo a cut rate because the publicity from this

816
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:11,399
Speaker 2: case is worth more than anything Ronnie to Fao could

817
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:14,480
Speaker 2: ever give me. Yeah, so the idea of reviving interest

818
00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:18,000
Speaker 2: in the case would probably help his case load as well.

819
00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:23,400
Speaker 2: Who knows the point is? William Weber hired a guy

820
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:26,520
Speaker 2: named Paul Hoffman I think his name was, and he

821
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:30,000
Speaker 2: wrote the Good Housekeeping article. And when that Good Housekeeping

822
00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:33,840
Speaker 2: article came out. The Lesses were like, you're gonna scoop us.

823
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:37,480
Speaker 2: We're gonna sue you for invasion of privacy because you

824
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:41,520
Speaker 2: stole our story. Which is pretty rich because they were

825
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:44,640
Speaker 2: using the courts. Like if you have a life story

826
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:47,480
Speaker 2: and some lawyer comes along and hires somebody to write

827
00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:51,040
Speaker 2: that story, Yeah, that's invasion to privacy if you make

828
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:54,600
Speaker 2: that story up with said lawyer and then screw that

829
00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:57,880
Speaker 2: lawyer over and he goes off his own way. Yeah,

830
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:01,399
Speaker 2: using the courts for that is pretty I don't want

831
00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:03,920
Speaker 2: to say ballsy gutsy.

832
00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:08,319
Speaker 3: Yeah. And speaking of lawsuits, I mean, we won't go

833
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:11,400
Speaker 3: through the merriad lawsuits, but there were it felt like

834
00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:13,480
Speaker 3: more than a dozen lawsuits over the years.

835
00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:15,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, they sued Weber sued them.

836
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:18,399
Speaker 3: People were suing everyone. People were suing cops. Cops were

837
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:19,879
Speaker 3: suing the family, The.

838
00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:22,520
Speaker 2: Cro Marty's were suing the Lutzes for even making the

839
00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:23,760
Speaker 2: thing up in the first place.

840
00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:26,000
Speaker 3: And to me, this is what is sort of proof

841
00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:28,160
Speaker 3: positive that the whole thing is rotten to begin with.

842
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:30,480
Speaker 2: Sure, when the lawsuits start flying.

843
00:42:30,239 --> 00:42:33,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, everyone had their hand out. This father of Peccerero

844
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:36,480
Speaker 3: in court documents said that you know what, I never

845
00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:40,160
Speaker 3: went there and blessed the house right and heard this voice.

846
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:42,880
Speaker 3: I actually kind of just had a phone call with them. Yeah,

847
00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:45,800
Speaker 3: and maybe and the guy one of their daughters yelled

848
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:48,480
Speaker 3: get out right in the background.

849
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:49,879
Speaker 2: Because she was talking to a doll I think had

850
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:50,720
Speaker 2: a dog, Harry.

851
00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:51,759
Speaker 3: But it creaked me out.

852
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:55,760
Speaker 2: Nonetheless, I always wanted to be played by Rod Steiger,

853
00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:56,839
Speaker 2: so I went for it.

854
00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:00,000
Speaker 3: But yeah, I mean, it just it all sort of

855
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:00,600
Speaker 3: fell apart.

856
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:04,400
Speaker 2: So there's you know, in cases like this, people are like, well,

857
00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:07,279
Speaker 2: the Catholic Church is shutting that guy up. They don't

858
00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:09,040
Speaker 2: want to talk about the truth if there are some

859
00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:15,160
Speaker 2: demons here. But the priest really confounds things. Not because

860
00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:17,320
Speaker 2: it's like it was a Catholic church really trying to

861
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:20,920
Speaker 2: keep this quiet, more like why did this priest lie

862
00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:24,600
Speaker 2: so overtly on in search.

863
00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:26,799
Speaker 3: Of Well, he may have had some skin in the game.

864
00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:29,640
Speaker 2: Maybe maybe, so maybe you're right.

865
00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:30,319
Speaker 3: I don't know.

866
00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:34,279
Speaker 2: But the Warren said, in addition to him, you know,

867
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:38,520
Speaker 2: experiencing that in the house, it followed him throughout his life,

868
00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:40,880
Speaker 2: and that he was once in a hotel room with

869
00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:44,080
Speaker 2: a rabbi in Florida and a lizard demon from the

870
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:47,480
Speaker 2: house appeared to him. There. That's the quality of quotes

871
00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:49,839
Speaker 2: you can expect when you have the Warrens on your

872
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:50,640
Speaker 2: interview show.

873
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:54,120
Speaker 3: I love it. I love that we're treating In Search

874
00:43:54,160 --> 00:43:57,960
Speaker 3: Of as if it was this you know, no, no,

875
00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:00,960
Speaker 3: highly regarded. I mean it was, it was great, but

876
00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:03,879
Speaker 3: it was schlocky TV for ten and twelve year old

877
00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:07,160
Speaker 3: boys in the eighties. Sure, like I'm sure, I mean

878
00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:10,359
Speaker 3: that probably wasn't even the priest. He probably just hired

879
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:10,680
Speaker 3: a guy.

880
00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:14,640
Speaker 2: No, No, it was the guy who in court documents

881
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:15,920
Speaker 2: that was the guy on in.

882
00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:18,680
Speaker 3: Search Of But they blacked his face out right, But.

883
00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:21,040
Speaker 2: I mean, like they that's the guy. That's the guy.

884
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:23,839
Speaker 2: He was revealed later on. The guy on in Search

885
00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:27,440
Speaker 2: Of was revealed later on to be father Pecqerero, and

886
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:30,399
Speaker 2: he was on in search Of back before anyone ever

887
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:33,160
Speaker 2: knew the name Pecquerero. He was called in the book

888
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:36,120
Speaker 2: father man q Soo. All right, But as far as

889
00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:38,640
Speaker 2: I know, that is the same guy.

890
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:41,000
Speaker 3: And that he was just on TV lying through.

891
00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:42,239
Speaker 2: His teeth, that's what I saw.

892
00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:44,759
Speaker 3: Or he could have been just handed a script by

893
00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:45,759
Speaker 3: Nimoy's team.

894
00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:49,279
Speaker 2: It's possible it was the seventies and America went we'll

895
00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:50,560
Speaker 2: believe anything you say.

896
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:54,480
Speaker 3: A couple of years ago, actually just last year, in

897
00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:58,400
Speaker 3: twenty seventeen, it was sold for about six hundred grand

898
00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:02,399
Speaker 3: the house, which is a couple one hundred less than

899
00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:04,839
Speaker 3: they were asking for it. They're asking around eight.

900
00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:06,000
Speaker 2: Isn't that crazy?

901
00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:08,839
Speaker 3: And apparently it's not had nothing that the only had

902
00:45:08,840 --> 00:45:11,560
Speaker 3: to do with the price ring was because of the

903
00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:14,960
Speaker 3: pain and the rump to live there and have people

904
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:17,600
Speaker 3: constantly coming by. It wasn't like, forget that there were

905
00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:20,720
Speaker 3: six people murdered here, forget that this house has green

906
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:26,359
Speaker 3: ooze and flies and devil pigs coming out of you know,

907
00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:30,080
Speaker 3: looking through the window. It's the real problem is Google

908
00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:33,719
Speaker 3: Earth and now people can just say, oh, let's go

909
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:35,400
Speaker 3: by there and take some photos.

910
00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:36,160
Speaker 2: There it is. It's at one.

911
00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:39,440
Speaker 3: Oh wait, they must have moved it. That still cracks

912
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:39,759
Speaker 3: me up.

913
00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:42,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, but yeah, that's the thing. That's why the house

914
00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:45,720
Speaker 2: is still selling for less than it ever was before.

915
00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:49,239
Speaker 3: And the Lutz has claimed that they didn't make much

916
00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:52,520
Speaker 3: money on this and that you know, like we never

917
00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:55,120
Speaker 3: got rich and what little money we made kind of

918
00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:57,880
Speaker 3: went out the door with court fees and legal fees.

919
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:01,520
Speaker 2: I don't know that maybe utterly true.

920
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:05,760
Speaker 3: Who knows it says that they did. He did admit

921
00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:08,160
Speaker 3: to getting about one hundred grand from the book and

922
00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:09,400
Speaker 3: another hundred from the film.

923
00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:12,440
Speaker 2: That's not that much money, No, but this is nineteen

924
00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:14,720
Speaker 2: seventies money. Those some money.

925
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:17,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, but it's not like kickback and retire money. Sure,

926
00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:17,680
Speaker 3: you know.

927
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:22,160
Speaker 2: Sure. One of the probably the most telling thing about

928
00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:25,520
Speaker 2: the Luts's story being a hoax, the whole thing being

929
00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:28,520
Speaker 2: just one big hoax, is that no one, no other

930
00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:34,279
Speaker 2: person owner, anybody who was associated with that house after

931
00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:39,360
Speaker 2: the Lutz family left, ever reported anything even remotely supernatural

932
00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:43,759
Speaker 2: like this nothing. Yeah, And of course Lorraine Warren had

933
00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:47,319
Speaker 2: a pretty good explanation for that, which is what she said. Well, then,

934
00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:50,719
Speaker 2: obviously one of the exorcisms was successful, because that's the

935
00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:53,480
Speaker 2: only way job, that's the only way to explain why

936
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:56,480
Speaker 2: the hauntings went away. Yeah, and like it, that's the

937
00:46:56,520 --> 00:46:58,440
Speaker 2: only way to explain it. Huh.

938
00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:01,960
Speaker 3: The LUTs is also never called the which was a

939
00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:04,120
Speaker 3: big hole people poke into it. Like if all this

940
00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:06,160
Speaker 3: stuff was going on, like at some point you're going

941
00:47:06,239 --> 00:47:08,520
Speaker 3: to go to the police, right, and even if it's

942
00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:11,239
Speaker 3: ten days and not the twenty eight You're not just

943
00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:15,799
Speaker 3: gonna just quietly be haunted by the demons of hell,

944
00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:18,320
Speaker 3: right and not not sweat it with the cops.

945
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:20,160
Speaker 2: Sure, at least call them once and be like, you

946
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:21,480
Speaker 2: guys do anything about demons?

947
00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:26,719
Speaker 3: No, okay, even if it's a crank call. Sure, what

948
00:47:26,800 --> 00:47:30,719
Speaker 3: do you think? I mean? This is getting a little philosophical,

949
00:47:30,719 --> 00:47:33,480
Speaker 3: I guess, But do you think what do you think

950
00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:37,319
Speaker 3: about bad juju in a in a home where six

951
00:47:37,360 --> 00:47:41,839
Speaker 3: people were murdered? Like I'm a I'm a totally agnostic

952
00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:45,960
Speaker 3: non believer in any thing like that, But part of

953
00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:49,520
Speaker 3: me also thinks that, like, if you brutally murder six people,

954
00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:54,560
Speaker 3: there's got to be some change in the energy in

955
00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:58,200
Speaker 3: the air, which sounds hokier than anything I've made fun of.

956
00:48:01,239 --> 00:48:08,240
Speaker 3: I think, so you know, what's the Josh clarkway dot com?

957
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:12,080
Speaker 2: What's the what's the word? Oh, placebo? I think it's

958
00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:13,000
Speaker 2: a placebo effect.

959
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:15,279
Speaker 3: Okay, so you know that something happened here. If you

960
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:17,040
Speaker 3: didn't know anything, you would never notice anything.

961
00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:21,279
Speaker 2: Probably not. Yeah, I don't think that there is a

962
00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:24,640
Speaker 2: change to the energy or the air or anything like that.

963
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:28,000
Speaker 2: I think there are cues that we can find where

964
00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:30,880
Speaker 2: even if you didn't know. You could be like, well

965
00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:32,799
Speaker 2: there's a shadow over there something like that. You can

966
00:48:32,840 --> 00:48:34,920
Speaker 2: freak yourself out, even in a house like that that

967
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:37,600
Speaker 2: you didn't know was haunted or said to be haunted.

968
00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:39,359
Speaker 2: But I think if you know a house is said

969
00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:42,000
Speaker 2: to be haunted, if you are just your brain's working

970
00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:44,480
Speaker 2: overtime and you're going to produce those things that you

971
00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:47,040
Speaker 2: think you see, well that's why I create that. But

972
00:48:47,120 --> 00:48:52,880
Speaker 2: my my imagination is just dead and gone. So who knows.

973
00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:55,719
Speaker 2: If you do believe stuff like that, then that's that's

974
00:48:55,760 --> 00:48:58,720
Speaker 2: fine with me. I mean, sure you're not hurting anybody

975
00:48:58,719 --> 00:49:01,560
Speaker 2: with that. If you're taking money from people to exercise

976
00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:03,520
Speaker 2: stuff like that, then I have a problem with you.

977
00:49:03,560 --> 00:49:07,440
Speaker 2: But I don't think a lot of people are out

978
00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:09,319
Speaker 2: there doing it. I think most people just believe one

979
00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:09,880
Speaker 2: way or another.

980
00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:13,040
Speaker 3: You know, yeah, interesting, Yeah, I want to know that boy.

981
00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:17,759
Speaker 2: Is in the picture, it's Jody the pig Demon. If

982
00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:21,799
Speaker 2: you want to know more about the Amityville horror, you

983
00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:24,640
Speaker 2: can type those words into the Internet. Actually, you can

984
00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:26,359
Speaker 2: type it into how stuff works and it will bring

985
00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:29,600
Speaker 2: up an article by our own former own Matt Hunt.

986
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:30,560
Speaker 3: I remember that guy.

987
00:49:30,680 --> 00:49:33,640
Speaker 2: He wrote the Amityville article on the website.

988
00:49:33,719 --> 00:49:35,120
Speaker 3: What's he up to now? Any idea?

989
00:49:35,160 --> 00:49:38,320
Speaker 2: I don't know, and he's continuing his investigation into the

990
00:49:38,360 --> 00:49:39,240
Speaker 2: Amityville horror.

991
00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:40,640
Speaker 3: He was never heard from again.

992
00:49:41,120 --> 00:49:44,520
Speaker 2: Right since I said that it's time for the listener mail.

993
00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:49,280
Speaker 3: I'm gonna call this follow up on the homelessness episode

994
00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:54,359
Speaker 3: we re ran that one for selects. Got a better

995
00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:55,160
Speaker 3: response this time.

996
00:49:55,480 --> 00:49:58,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was really looking out for somebody, but I

997
00:49:58,040 --> 00:50:00,239
Speaker 2: guess they learned their lesson or ell stop listening to

998
00:50:00,320 --> 00:50:00,839
Speaker 2: us by now.

999
00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:02,680
Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, and I set it up too, because it

1000
00:50:02,719 --> 00:50:04,760
Speaker 3: was my pick with like, hey, this is what happened

1001
00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:08,040
Speaker 3: last time. Oh right, so you know I dare you

1002
00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:08,960
Speaker 3: it right in this time?

1003
00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:10,160
Speaker 2: That's exactly right.

1004
00:50:11,120 --> 00:50:13,359
Speaker 3: So this is how this is from a woman who

1005
00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:15,160
Speaker 3: said that a homeless man saved her dog. It's a

1006
00:50:15,160 --> 00:50:18,200
Speaker 3: pretty great story. My sister and I were taking our

1007
00:50:18,200 --> 00:50:20,279
Speaker 3: three dogs for a walk down main Street in our

1008
00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:22,520
Speaker 3: city one day and we stopped dress on a bench

1009
00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:25,840
Speaker 3: for heading for home. That realizing it, I had accidentally

1010
00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:29,640
Speaker 3: let one of the leashes slip out of my hand. Unfortunately,

1011
00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:33,439
Speaker 3: Sophia noticed her leash was free at about the same

1012
00:50:33,440 --> 00:50:36,680
Speaker 3: time I did decided to up and chase after something.

1013
00:50:37,200 --> 00:50:39,600
Speaker 3: My sister and I jumped to grab her, but the

1014
00:50:39,640 --> 00:50:41,719
Speaker 3: speed of two clumsy humans is no match for a

1015
00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:44,880
Speaker 3: spry young dog. She ran down the sidewalk. This is

1016
00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:48,040
Speaker 3: like a nightmare for me. As she ran down the sidewalk,

1017
00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:50,440
Speaker 3: a few pedestrians reached down to try and grab her,

1018
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:52,640
Speaker 3: which frightened her enough that she ran from the sidewalk

1019
00:50:52,960 --> 00:50:55,640
Speaker 3: into the busy street, four lanes of traffic going in

1020
00:50:55,680 --> 00:50:58,759
Speaker 3: both directions, Sprinting to try and catch up. I watched

1021
00:50:58,800 --> 00:51:01,279
Speaker 3: in horror as she ran out into the street chore.

1022
00:51:01,320 --> 00:51:02,799
Speaker 3: I was about to see my dog get killed by

1023
00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:05,480
Speaker 3: an oncoming car. It was right about then that a

1024
00:51:05,480 --> 00:51:08,560
Speaker 3: homeless man that we had previously seen around town rode

1025
00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:11,200
Speaker 3: up on his bicycle right in the middle of the road,

1026
00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:15,560
Speaker 3: keeping himself between my dog and the cars flying by.

1027
00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:18,000
Speaker 3: Weren't for him doing that, she would surely have been

1028
00:51:18,120 --> 00:51:20,680
Speaker 3: run over. Finally caught up, was able to catch her

1029
00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:23,600
Speaker 3: attention call her. Thankfully. She ran right into my arms,

1030
00:51:23,640 --> 00:51:25,839
Speaker 3: and I looked up to thank the hero would save

1031
00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:30,239
Speaker 3: my dog, and he was nowhere to be seen. What

1032
00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:35,759
Speaker 3: was it a dream? That's me talking? He had put

1033
00:51:35,800 --> 00:51:37,560
Speaker 3: himself in harms way to save my dog's life and

1034
00:51:37,560 --> 00:51:39,840
Speaker 3: then just quietly ridden away when he saw that she

1035
00:51:39,920 --> 00:51:42,600
Speaker 3: was safe. Don't know his name, never saw him again

1036
00:51:42,719 --> 00:51:46,000
Speaker 3: to thank him. Sophia is now ten years old. It's

1037
00:51:46,080 --> 00:51:49,120
Speaker 3: because of that nameless man that she has lived to

1038
00:51:49,160 --> 00:51:52,719
Speaker 3: see that old age. And that is Ali from New Hampshire.

1039
00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:54,040
Speaker 2: That was a great story.

1040
00:51:54,239 --> 00:51:54,600
Speaker 3: Love it.

1041
00:51:55,080 --> 00:51:57,680
Speaker 2: Thanks a lot, Ali, thanks for sharing that one. See

1042
00:51:57,719 --> 00:52:01,440
Speaker 2: everybody we told you. If you want to send us

1043
00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:03,440
Speaker 2: an email like Ali did or get in touch with this,

1044
00:52:03,560 --> 00:52:07,000
Speaker 2: you can go to our website stuffyshouldo dot com. I

1045
00:52:07,040 --> 00:52:09,480
Speaker 2: also have a website called the Josh Clarkway dot com

1046
00:52:09,480 --> 00:52:11,799
Speaker 2: if you want to check it out, and you can

1047
00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:15,000
Speaker 2: send an email to Chuck, Jerry and Me plus Frank

1048
00:52:15,040 --> 00:52:18,360
Speaker 2: the chair, guests producer Roll everybody. Send that email to

1049
00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:31,080
Speaker 2: Stuff Podcasts at HowStuffWorks dot com.

1050
00:52:26,160 --> 00:52:28,600
Speaker 1: For more on this and thousands of other topics. Is

1051
00:52:28,640 --> 00:52:37,200
Speaker 1: it HowStuffWorks dot com