WEBVTT - Siemens and Deutsche Bank CEOs Talk German Investment 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:07.240 Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 0:00:08.039 --> 0:00:10.040 It looks increasingly like there's not going to be a 0:00:10.240 --> 0:00:13.160 US EU trade deal, and we've got Ollie Crook sitting 0:00:13.160 --> 0:00:14.360 down with a few CEOs. 0:00:14.400 --> 0:00:16.880 He would very much like to see some carve outs. 0:00:17.280 --> 0:00:19.919 Absolutely, Germany's been moving in that direction. Germany's be hoping 0:00:19.920 --> 0:00:21.760 that it's going to get carvats, particularly for the car sex, 0:00:21.880 --> 0:00:24.680 particularly for the industrial sector. That is looking like it 0:00:24.760 --> 0:00:26.840 is going to be harder and harder to achieve. 0:00:27.280 --> 0:00:29.000 So A, how do you prepare for that? 0:00:29.200 --> 0:00:31.720 And B how do you invest in Germany to take 0:00:31.760 --> 0:00:34.640 advantage of the current government large est that appears to 0:00:34.680 --> 0:00:37.400 be emanating from Berlin. There's two people that we should 0:00:37.440 --> 0:00:39.920 be asking, So let's hand things over to Olie Krug. 0:00:41.640 --> 0:00:43.199 Yeah, that's right guy. I mean, we know we've been 0:00:43.200 --> 0:00:45.199 talking about it for years. The German economy has been 0:00:45.200 --> 0:00:47.559 effectively flatlining for a number of years. With the new 0:00:47.640 --> 0:00:51.040 Chancellor of Friedrich Meritz, he's made it the central promise 0:00:51.080 --> 0:00:53.680 to turn that economy around. The first step was by 0:00:53.680 --> 0:00:56.600 amending the German constitution to change the so called debt break, 0:00:56.640 --> 0:00:58.880 freeing the government to unleast potentially more than they're a 0:00:58.920 --> 0:01:02.000 trillion euros in financing. Now the question is how do 0:01:02.040 --> 0:01:04.639 you spend that money, how do you attract the private money, 0:01:04.800 --> 0:01:07.640 and critically, what reforms are needed to or the structurally 0:01:07.680 --> 0:01:09.760 within Germany. So it's not just a sugar high, but 0:01:09.800 --> 0:01:12.840 a meaningful reordering of the economy. Here to help answer 0:01:12.880 --> 0:01:14.960 those questions are the leaders of two of Germany's most 0:01:14.959 --> 0:01:18.120 important institutions. We have Zemans, with its deep heritage in 0:01:18.160 --> 0:01:21.120 the German industrial base, now leading the way and bringing 0:01:21.160 --> 0:01:23.839 the industrial and the digital worlds together. And of course 0:01:23.920 --> 0:01:27.280 Deutsche Bank, the biggest lender to Europe's biggest economy, an institution, 0:01:27.400 --> 0:01:30.280 an institution whose capital flows through both the national champions 0:01:30.440 --> 0:01:33.520 and the countless empsomis that composed the middle stuns Christian 0:01:33.560 --> 0:01:35.640 Zaving Roland Bush, thank you so much for joining us 0:01:35.640 --> 0:01:38.080 on Bloomberg today, your meeting with the Chancellor a little 0:01:38.080 --> 0:01:40.959 bit later to behesse of Well, really, you guys, having 0:01:41.000 --> 0:01:43.800 founded this initiative Made in Germany, we now have pledges 0:01:43.800 --> 0:01:46.520 of upwards of six hundred billion euros worth of investment. 0:01:46.720 --> 0:01:48.760 What do you hope that Made in Germany can deliver? 0:01:49.800 --> 0:01:50.000 Well? 0:01:50.040 --> 0:01:53.120 Thanks, first of all, thank you for the invitation. Look, 0:01:53.160 --> 0:01:55.800 I think we always strifle the same gold, which is 0:01:56.720 --> 0:02:00.840 to finally have gross and competitiveness back in Germany and 0:02:00.920 --> 0:02:03.680 in Europe. And I do believe, and we do believe 0:02:03.800 --> 0:02:07.120 if gross is coming back to Germany, it's also good 0:02:07.120 --> 0:02:09.919 for Europe. And in this regard, gross cannot only be 0:02:10.040 --> 0:02:13.160 debt financed by the government, it cannot only be stimulated 0:02:13.160 --> 0:02:13.840 by the government. 0:02:14.320 --> 0:02:15.840 Actually we need the economy. 0:02:15.960 --> 0:02:19.560 And therefore a small group around Roland and myself and others, 0:02:19.960 --> 0:02:22.639 within a couple of months after in my view, a 0:02:22.720 --> 0:02:25.480 solid start of the government actually said. 0:02:25.400 --> 0:02:27.040 We also want to step up. 0:02:27.080 --> 0:02:29.560 We want to show what potential Germany has, and therefore 0:02:29.600 --> 0:02:32.679 we founded this initiative. And I think it's quite impressive 0:02:32.720 --> 0:02:34.919 for what we have collected after a couple of months 0:02:35.000 --> 0:02:38.520 was over six hundred billion of investments sixty one companies, 0:02:38.880 --> 0:02:40.760 and to be honest, I think more to come over 0:02:40.800 --> 0:02:41.359 the next month. 0:02:41.440 --> 0:02:43.320 But it shows what the sentiment is and that we 0:02:43.400 --> 0:02:43.880 have a chance. 0:02:43.960 --> 0:02:45.239 And so I'd like to get an idea sort of 0:02:45.280 --> 0:02:47.200 more concretely, because we get we're sort of in the 0:02:47.240 --> 0:02:50.800 age of large pledges to government and spending in local economies. 0:02:50.880 --> 0:02:53.040 So I like to get an idea from Zeemans, for example, 0:02:53.080 --> 0:02:54.840 how much of that money is coming from Zemans and 0:02:54.880 --> 0:02:57.440 specifically what are you targeting those investments into. 0:02:58.120 --> 0:03:01.160 Well, So, I mean this goes much beyond Semens. 0:03:01.200 --> 0:03:03.519 Now, these are more than six hundred, six hundred and 0:03:03.520 --> 0:03:06.720 thirty one billion euros which we are talking about. 0:03:07.360 --> 0:03:09.440 And it's a combination of as. 0:03:09.360 --> 0:03:14.079 You said, sixty one companies, its corporations, it's financial institutions, 0:03:14.080 --> 0:03:16.880 but it's also small and medium sized enterprises and startups. 0:03:17.160 --> 0:03:17.960 So it's a combination. 0:03:18.560 --> 0:03:22.960 They're all geared for deploying capital into a country where 0:03:23.000 --> 0:03:26.240 we believe in its innovation strength. We have small and 0:03:26.240 --> 0:03:29.440 medium sized companies hidden champions. They are unique in their 0:03:29.440 --> 0:03:32.960 technology and we believe that with the people which we have, 0:03:33.160 --> 0:03:36.000 we can drive this to the next level. Yet you 0:03:36.600 --> 0:03:40.040 need a little bit of structural changes in order to 0:03:40.080 --> 0:03:42.160 really attract the capital that we all know that. 0:03:42.760 --> 0:03:45.960 So, and they've identified nine. 0:03:45.800 --> 0:03:51.080 Action fields and they are almost completely in sunk what's 0:03:51.200 --> 0:03:54.360 written in the coalition contract. And then coming to SEMENS, 0:03:54.360 --> 0:03:59.200 I mean we're investing in manufacturing innovation in along it. 0:03:59.240 --> 0:04:02.080 For example, want to invest in what we call the 0:04:02.080 --> 0:04:06.000 industrial meto verse kind of manufacturer driving digitalization to the 0:04:06.040 --> 0:04:08.800 next level, be about to deploy that capital as we speak. 0:04:08.840 --> 0:04:12.480 The same is what happens here in Berlin. It's a 0:04:12.520 --> 0:04:17.320 completely new new precinct in Berlin. We're investing, leveraging also 0:04:17.680 --> 0:04:23.080 other financial investors' capital. It's a fully digitalized city, living, 0:04:23.480 --> 0:04:26.400 working and manufacturing at the same time. Capital will be 0:04:26.400 --> 0:04:27.840 deployed as we speak and so on. 0:04:28.560 --> 0:04:30.480 But we have more than that. We have more than 0:04:30.560 --> 0:04:33.520 fifty lighthouse projects from. 0:04:33.400 --> 0:04:36.200 All the companies where they say these are my ideas, 0:04:36.279 --> 0:04:38.440 this is what I use the capital. 0:04:38.080 --> 0:04:40.480 For, and so's to sort of zoom out and see 0:04:40.560 --> 0:04:43.120 kind of looking into the future five ten years from now, 0:04:43.200 --> 0:04:46.200 Christian when we're trying to imagine, if this initiative is 0:04:46.240 --> 0:04:48.480 successful and the initiative of the government, what the German 0:04:48.480 --> 0:04:51.600 economy looks like, how different it might be from these 0:04:51.600 --> 0:04:54.719 sort of traditional ideas that we have about the German economy, 0:04:54.720 --> 0:04:57.240 which is a lot of smokestacks, a lot of heavy industry, 0:04:57.920 --> 0:04:59.000 a very energy. 0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:00.640 Dependent. 0:05:00.920 --> 0:05:02.640 What do we look like in this what does economy 0:05:02.680 --> 0:05:04.520 look like in five to ten years? 0:05:04.839 --> 0:05:07.480 Always hard to exactly zoom out and says what it 0:05:07.520 --> 0:05:09.719 looks like in five to ten years, but you know, 0:05:09.839 --> 0:05:11.880 sometimes history tells you what is possible. 0:05:12.160 --> 0:05:13.200 If you think about. 0:05:12.920 --> 0:05:15.520 How the German economy actually changed over the last. 0:05:15.360 --> 0:05:16.359 Thirty or forty years. 0:05:16.680 --> 0:05:21.080 When I started in banking in the area in the 0:05:21.960 --> 0:05:25.160 location where I started, this was an industry or this 0:05:25.400 --> 0:05:28.880 was a location which was dominated by textile and the 0:05:28.920 --> 0:05:33.159 printing industry completely changed. And if I think about family 0:05:33.240 --> 0:05:35.240 owned companies, if I think about semens, if I think 0:05:35.240 --> 0:05:40.560 about others how they now actually apply artificial intelligence for 0:05:40.680 --> 0:05:44.880 industrial processes, I think Germany can be and must be 0:05:44.920 --> 0:05:49.560 a technology let country. If I think about sustainability technology 0:05:49.560 --> 0:05:52.719 which regard to sustainability, we haven't talked about sustainability so 0:05:52.800 --> 0:05:55.360 much over the last twelve months. Well, this is a 0:05:55.440 --> 0:05:59.599 key key topic. Germany has the leading technology to actually 0:05:59.720 --> 0:06:00.279 muss that. 0:06:00.360 --> 0:06:01.560 Challenge to export that. 0:06:02.080 --> 0:06:05.040 I do believe by the way that Germany will always 0:06:05.080 --> 0:06:09.120 be an export country. And then with leading technologies we 0:06:09.880 --> 0:06:14.200 can master that. For that, you need investments. For that, 0:06:14.320 --> 0:06:16.080 you need to up to date, and therefore it is 0:06:16.120 --> 0:06:19.960 so important that we actually invest into our capabilities. 0:06:20.320 --> 0:06:21.719 Third point could be defense. 0:06:22.120 --> 0:06:25.359 I'm actually glad that we are upsizing our defense, not 0:06:25.520 --> 0:06:29.160 only in order to defend our own continent, but moreover 0:06:29.240 --> 0:06:33.839 that most of the defense investments will actually doing very 0:06:33.839 --> 0:06:38.400 well for future technologies, so you can actually initiate a 0:06:38.440 --> 0:06:42.480 new industry with defense investments. So I think we will 0:06:42.520 --> 0:06:45.240 see a further development of the German industry. But I 0:06:45.279 --> 0:06:50.760 do believe that technology, artificially intelligence but also sustainability will 0:06:50.760 --> 0:06:53.680 be something where German industries will be leading in five 0:06:53.720 --> 0:06:54.320 to ten years. 0:06:54.440 --> 0:06:57.120 In Roland, you are sort of coming from this company 0:06:57.120 --> 0:07:00.400 that has this heritage and extreme heavy in the streets. 0:07:00.480 --> 0:07:03.680 Now transition to do exactly sort of what you're describing 0:07:03.720 --> 0:07:06.800 there to what So how do you appraise the kind 0:07:06.800 --> 0:07:10.080 of Germany's structural advantages in order to sort of sort 0:07:10.120 --> 0:07:12.120 of take advantage of what we're talking about here. 0:07:13.000 --> 0:07:19.760 So let's take the AI technology as one of those 0:07:20.880 --> 0:07:26.560 fundamental technologies which are fundamentally changing actually everything we talk 0:07:26.600 --> 0:07:30.040 about industrial AI. So what you do need is data. 0:07:30.360 --> 0:07:34.640 I mean better data beat better algorithms. So we're sitting 0:07:34.720 --> 0:07:36.800 on a massive amount of data. This is one of 0:07:36.800 --> 0:07:40.240 the most industrialized economies in the world, and against more 0:07:40.240 --> 0:07:43.240 than medium sized enterprises, large ones. They're creating data from 0:07:43.280 --> 0:07:47.400 the buildings, the manufacturing sites they're engineering. So this is 0:07:47.400 --> 0:07:50.040 the number one, we can leverage that data and pring 0:07:50.040 --> 0:07:53.800 it in what we call industrial foundation models, which are 0:07:54.680 --> 0:07:58.360 not hallucinating. They are really working on the shop floor 0:07:58.400 --> 0:08:01.680 agents which act on your bed of doing things on 0:08:01.720 --> 0:08:05.880 a shop floor, managing actually lines or even whole plants. 0:08:06.480 --> 0:08:11.040 Together with people trained on AI technology. Is that does 0:08:11.080 --> 0:08:13.240 not go without people. We need people who can use 0:08:13.280 --> 0:08:19.320 these technologies, and the combination of this innovation strengths domain 0:08:19.440 --> 0:08:20.680 know how but also. 0:08:20.520 --> 0:08:23.560 The data village of available that can help us a bit. 0:08:24.440 --> 0:08:28.160 The only point here is we need less regulation to 0:08:28.240 --> 0:08:31.280 release the power and the speed with which this technology 0:08:31.320 --> 0:08:33.679 can really hit the market. So there are a couple 0:08:33.679 --> 0:08:36.480 of things which we have to change. I'm constantly saying that, 0:08:36.840 --> 0:08:38.080 but the potential is there. 0:08:38.160 --> 0:08:40.280 Well, while we're on the subject, I'll stay with you 0:08:40.440 --> 0:08:42.400 because this is my next question. Is the roadmap to 0:08:42.440 --> 0:08:44.480 getting there? Right, we've slaid out the ambition, Now the 0:08:44.559 --> 0:08:47.880 roadmap to getting there specifically, what have you been encouraged 0:08:47.920 --> 0:08:50.480 by what you've heard from this government and what you 0:08:50.520 --> 0:08:52.800 know sort of what reforms concrearly would you like to 0:08:52.800 --> 0:08:54.080 see in the next six months. 0:08:54.440 --> 0:08:56.840 So we have nine action fields and again they are 0:08:56.880 --> 0:08:59.480 in sunc with what the government is planning to do 0:08:59.559 --> 0:09:02.640 any and just to spell out some Number one is 0:09:02.760 --> 0:09:06.800 coming back to innovations, the way how we are supporting innovation, 0:09:07.160 --> 0:09:09.319 university schools, education system. 0:09:09.480 --> 0:09:10.679 The other one is the labor market. 0:09:10.960 --> 0:09:13.400 We need the best talents in the market and we 0:09:13.440 --> 0:09:16.000 need to deploy the working forces which we have. 0:09:16.160 --> 0:09:17.839 You have to bring people who are coming to us 0:09:17.840 --> 0:09:18.400 into work. 0:09:18.880 --> 0:09:22.760 Another one is the investment climate that you have incentives 0:09:22.760 --> 0:09:26.240 for investing and deploying money and vc some first actions 0:09:26.280 --> 0:09:33.120 already taken by the government. We talk about less regulations, 0:09:33.920 --> 0:09:37.960 faster decision processes. It doesn't help I A if it 0:09:38.000 --> 0:09:40.360 takes five years to get an approval for our plan, 0:09:40.960 --> 0:09:42.439 then you want to deploy capital in the. 0:09:42.360 --> 0:09:44.760 Next three years. And the other one is digitalization. 0:09:44.960 --> 0:09:49.280 We have to digitalize the companies but also government processes 0:09:49.320 --> 0:09:52.240 because you can be much much faster and much more productive. 0:09:52.240 --> 0:09:53.719 I'm doing so just to. 0:09:53.640 --> 0:09:56.240 Line out some of those areas. 0:09:56.000 --> 0:09:59.840 It's not you know what to do, it's about doing 0:10:00.200 --> 0:10:00.720 do it. 0:10:00.920 --> 0:10:03.360 So Christian, we've heard about cutting red tape in Germany 0:10:03.440 --> 0:10:05.719 for how many decades now, right, this is something that 0:10:05.760 --> 0:10:08.000 we keep hearing about from the government. What do you 0:10:08.000 --> 0:10:10.200 think again, like concretely where would you like to see 0:10:10.200 --> 0:10:14.600 from this government. You speak to every basically business within Germany. 0:10:14.640 --> 0:10:16.520 What are the sort of three things that you know 0:10:16.559 --> 0:10:18.880 you could really concretely put into place in the next 0:10:18.920 --> 0:10:22.079 six months which would encourage these companies and give them 0:10:22.080 --> 0:10:24.040 the confidence to invest well. 0:10:24.040 --> 0:10:27.160 The three main complaints of the people and in particular 0:10:27.320 --> 0:10:30.760 family owned companies but also larger companies clearly a regulation 0:10:30.800 --> 0:10:34.280 and bureaucracy and their speed. And this is an issue 0:10:34.280 --> 0:10:36.760 where it's not only Germany. We also have to have 0:10:37.000 --> 0:10:39.480 a far bigger influence of what is happening in Europe. 0:10:39.520 --> 0:10:42.400 And therefore I also think more leadership, a stronger government 0:10:42.480 --> 0:10:46.160 in Germany will also help to do structural changes in 0:10:46.200 --> 0:10:49.320 Europe which we need. Number Two energy prices. It's still 0:10:49.360 --> 0:10:51.560 an issue now. I think the government is going into 0:10:51.559 --> 0:10:54.320 the right direction, but this is something which we clearly 0:10:54.360 --> 0:10:57.439 need to have in mind. Number three is a labor 0:10:57.520 --> 0:11:01.080 market and flexibility around the market. This is kind of 0:11:01.120 --> 0:11:03.000 the feedback we get from our clients now. 0:11:03.440 --> 0:11:04.199 I think there is a. 0:11:04.160 --> 0:11:08.040 Force one now, as I said, the government had a 0:11:08.040 --> 0:11:11.080 good start. We need to focus on our pension plans 0:11:11.120 --> 0:11:14.440 because I do believe it's not only important that we 0:11:14.559 --> 0:11:17.760 have a secured system for our people, for the retirement 0:11:17.840 --> 0:11:20.920 people also in ten fifteen years time. I think it's 0:11:20.960 --> 0:11:23.720 actually the key to success for investments. If we have 0:11:24.320 --> 0:11:27.680 a capital based pension plan that also means that more 0:11:27.720 --> 0:11:32.199 investments will go into our economy. It's nothing else than 0:11:32.280 --> 0:11:35.240 the real start of a domestic capital market. 0:11:35.640 --> 0:11:36.360 That's what we need. 0:11:36.440 --> 0:11:38.839 If we can focus on that, I think even more 0:11:38.880 --> 0:11:40.720 foreign investments will run into Germany. 0:11:40.800 --> 0:11:42.360 So you've touched a number of points. I want to 0:11:42.400 --> 0:11:43.960 pick up on a couple of them. But a little 0:11:43.960 --> 0:11:45.880 bit earlier, you said you think that Germany will remain 0:11:45.960 --> 0:11:49.160 an export economy at a time when we're seeing that 0:11:49.240 --> 0:11:51.680 sort of concept really being challenged at the global. 0:11:51.320 --> 0:11:52.760 Scale by the United States. 0:11:52.880 --> 0:11:54.920 I'd like to get an idea from you personally, but 0:11:54.960 --> 0:11:57.000 also the clients you speak to. How are they weighing 0:11:57.080 --> 0:11:59.599 the optimism that comes with what we're heard from the 0:11:59.679 --> 0:12:02.400 German government with the risks that we're hearing from. 0:12:02.200 --> 0:12:03.280 The United States. 0:12:03.520 --> 0:12:06.520 And you know what is winning in terms of making decisions. 0:12:06.160 --> 0:12:09.960 For businesses, Well, I think it's all about diversification. I 0:12:10.000 --> 0:12:12.600 think we learned through COVID already the first steps of 0:12:12.600 --> 0:12:15.360 what it means to be diversified, not only to diversify 0:12:15.520 --> 0:12:18.640 your production and supply chains, but also you sort of 0:12:18.640 --> 0:12:22.000 say sales market. So I think a lot of companies 0:12:22.000 --> 0:12:27.559 are actually looking into diversification, more agreements, more bilateral relationships. 0:12:27.920 --> 0:12:30.360 But I hear nobody. 0:12:29.880 --> 0:12:32.600 Actually talk about let's only focus on the German market, 0:12:32.600 --> 0:12:36.000 because we know that's too small. Second point is actually 0:12:36.040 --> 0:12:37.880 that we all need to focus more on Europe. 0:12:37.960 --> 0:12:40.120 We need a stronger European home market. 0:12:40.240 --> 0:12:42.880 The stronger this market is was four hundred and fifty 0:12:42.920 --> 0:12:47.000 million consumers, the better it is also for our negotiations 0:12:47.240 --> 0:12:51.200 versus the US, versus other countries. And therefore, I do 0:12:51.320 --> 0:12:55.000 believe the stronger you make yourself, and again this initiative 0:12:55.120 --> 0:12:59.360 is prone to that, the better your starting position is. 0:13:00.120 --> 0:13:02.640 I do believe that most of the companies are not 0:13:03.080 --> 0:13:06.000 trending away from globalization. They are simply saying, how can 0:13:06.080 --> 0:13:08.400 we diversify and making sure that we are not too 0:13:08.440 --> 0:13:10.920 dependent from one or the other country. 0:13:10.720 --> 0:13:12.880 And roland, you know, I mean, the worst of the 0:13:12.880 --> 0:13:14.760 world may not be, but the United States certainly is. 0:13:14.760 --> 0:13:16.920 We're going to get teriffs from at least ten to 0:13:16.960 --> 0:13:20.080 thirty percent in the next two weeks. How are you 0:13:20.120 --> 0:13:22.079 sort of appraising that risk and how it could sort 0:13:22.080 --> 0:13:23.600 of affect the plans here within Germany. 0:13:24.360 --> 0:13:28.280 So what is the eventual outcome. Let's put it that way. 0:13:28.600 --> 0:13:31.040 We will end up in higher tariffs. These are the 0:13:31.240 --> 0:13:34.439 United States is what we don't really want. Actually, we 0:13:34.480 --> 0:13:36.840 wanted to have lower ones because we believe in free trade. 0:13:37.200 --> 0:13:41.920 This stimulates economies and growth, so that would drive inflation 0:13:42.040 --> 0:13:45.720 to some point. However, there's one point which is super 0:13:45.720 --> 0:13:49.280 relevant is we have to stop this uncertainty. So once 0:13:49.320 --> 0:13:52.000 there's a deal, the deal should be the deal, and 0:13:52.200 --> 0:13:55.679 then we can deploy capital again based on facts, how 0:13:55.720 --> 0:13:58.120 the terrorists look like and hopefully that they are not 0:13:58.200 --> 0:14:01.360 going too high in two extremes that were tom economies. 0:14:01.360 --> 0:14:03.480 And secondly, is it's super important. 0:14:04.360 --> 0:14:08.640 If we finally manage to make free trade agreements in 0:14:08.840 --> 0:14:10.800 a couple of years, in not decades. 0:14:11.760 --> 0:14:14.840 That's super element because what would you do if. 0:14:14.679 --> 0:14:17.720 You have two large, large, large economies viure depending on 0:14:18.320 --> 0:14:22.400 diversifying other ones. Azion is a super important region, growing region, 0:14:22.440 --> 0:14:25.680 Middle East. We have South America, so there's so many 0:14:25.720 --> 0:14:29.280 regions where we can create other markets on top. And 0:14:29.360 --> 0:14:32.120 I'm not saying that the United States is not a 0:14:32.160 --> 0:14:34.720 relevant market for US, and there's still the most relevant market, 0:14:35.240 --> 0:14:38.000 but still there are opportunities, and then we're ending up 0:14:38.040 --> 0:14:40.080 in a much much more resilient and better So. 0:14:40.240 --> 0:14:42.240 Yeah, and so talking about some of the investments that 0:14:42.320 --> 0:14:44.440 you Roland have made in the United States over the 0:14:44.520 --> 0:14:47.600 last year or two, basically fifteen billion dollars worth of 0:14:47.640 --> 0:14:51.000 deals in kind of AI based and digital services within 0:14:51.040 --> 0:14:53.080 the United States, I'd like to get an idea. Did 0:14:53.080 --> 0:14:55.840 you not see those kinds of opportunities within Europe? Is 0:14:55.880 --> 0:14:57.960 that something that you could see happening in Europe or 0:14:58.040 --> 0:14:59.560 the companies just not there. 0:15:00.280 --> 0:15:03.560 The investment you're talking about two investments, A ten billion 0:15:03.600 --> 0:15:07.720 investment in altear simulation software five billion also in software 0:15:07.760 --> 0:15:10.000 for similating molecules. 0:15:10.040 --> 0:15:12.640 It's about the pharmaceutical and biochemical market. 0:15:13.200 --> 0:15:15.240 And I have to say that if you look for 0:15:15.320 --> 0:15:19.240 software assets, indeed you will end up in the United 0:15:19.280 --> 0:15:23.080 States mainly. There are alternatives. You're also invested in European 0:15:23.120 --> 0:15:28.280 companies smaller though, but you're not hessitating to invest capital 0:15:28.480 --> 0:15:30.880 R and D, but also M and A in Europe. 0:15:31.120 --> 0:15:34.920 We're looking into companies there as well, hardware companies which 0:15:35.000 --> 0:15:35.720 BRIS do may know. 0:15:35.800 --> 0:15:37.640 How hardware which creates data. 0:15:38.120 --> 0:15:41.280 So but in that case, if you really look for software, 0:15:41.360 --> 0:15:44.080 and Simon's invested really quite a bit twenty five billion 0:15:45.000 --> 0:15:49.040 over the last thouty and fifteen years in software. Most 0:15:49.120 --> 0:15:50.480 of that comes from. 0:15:50.360 --> 0:15:51.160 The United States. 0:15:51.200 --> 0:15:53.880 And we've been talking Christian a lot about European champions 0:15:53.920 --> 0:15:56.720 and changing the way that we think about preserving companies 0:15:56.720 --> 0:15:58.960 at the national level versus the European level. And I 0:15:58.960 --> 0:16:01.240 want to understand sort of you when you look at 0:16:01.240 --> 0:16:03.560 Deutsche Bank, which is now at the end of what 0:16:03.720 --> 0:16:06.400 was a very long turnaround process but now it's feeling 0:16:06.480 --> 0:16:08.040 like it's in a strong and confident position. 0:16:08.200 --> 0:16:09.840 Is the same moment for Deutsche. 0:16:09.480 --> 0:16:11.880 Bank to get into a much more sort of aggressive 0:16:11.920 --> 0:16:14.960 mode in terms of expansion mode potentially looking at M. 0:16:14.920 --> 0:16:16.120 And A across borders. 0:16:16.160 --> 0:16:18.440 What do you want Deutsche Bank's world to be in 0:16:18.480 --> 0:16:20.240 the kind of world of European Champions. 0:16:21.280 --> 0:16:22.800 Well, I do think what we see in this world 0:16:22.880 --> 0:16:26.840 is was all the geopolitical uncertainties with all the also 0:16:27.200 --> 0:16:31.640 economic uncertainties, there is one trend which is the same 0:16:31.880 --> 0:16:34.920 across the world that our clients want to have a 0:16:35.000 --> 0:16:37.680 European alternative to the US banks. We have very strong 0:16:37.760 --> 0:16:40.600 US banks, very capable of US banks, but in this 0:16:40.680 --> 0:16:44.040 world of geopolitical uncertainties, they want to have a capable 0:16:44.480 --> 0:16:48.520 global European player, and there are not so many European 0:16:48.560 --> 0:16:50.800 banks left with a full investment bank, with a full 0:16:50.840 --> 0:16:53.520 corporate bank, with a global network in over sixty countries. 0:16:53.920 --> 0:16:55.840 That's the role we can play now. 0:16:55.880 --> 0:16:58.680 This role we not only want to play because we 0:16:58.840 --> 0:17:02.480 feel ourselves at lobal bank, but it's obviously much easier 0:17:02.480 --> 0:17:05.120 to do that if you are coming from a country 0:17:05.359 --> 0:17:09.040 which is economically increasing, which is economically on the right 0:17:09.119 --> 0:17:10.320 pass and which is. 0:17:10.280 --> 0:17:12.080 Also pulling now Europe. 0:17:12.119 --> 0:17:14.760 And therefore I think we have a unique chance, not 0:17:14.880 --> 0:17:17.640 only as Germany and Europe, but also as Deutsche Bank 0:17:18.040 --> 0:17:21.680 to actually be the one who is facilitating and who 0:17:21.720 --> 0:17:25.000 is contributing to our clients growth around the world. The 0:17:25.480 --> 0:17:29.879 diversification also in banking, not only to rely on one bank, 0:17:29.960 --> 0:17:33.719 but on many banks, and that from a regional perspective 0:17:33.880 --> 0:17:35.400 has never been bigger than around. 0:17:35.200 --> 0:17:37.719 And you touch about diversifying, and just another question to you, 0:17:37.880 --> 0:17:40.320 is this by europe trend? Is this a lasting thing? 0:17:40.400 --> 0:17:43.480 Is this something that you're seeing from investors that you 0:17:43.520 --> 0:17:46.200 talk to that they're wanting to make a meaningful commitment 0:17:46.280 --> 0:17:48.320 to Europe, and what does that actually look like in 0:17:48.400 --> 0:17:49.960 terms of numbers from where you're setting. 0:17:50.480 --> 0:17:52.560 Well, for the first time, we see obviously since the 0:17:52.640 --> 0:17:56.040 last three or four months, a quite significant reallocation from 0:17:56.080 --> 0:17:58.200 funds in particular into Europe. 0:17:58.560 --> 0:18:00.000 The interest is huge. 0:18:00.320 --> 0:18:03.760 Whenever we talk with investors, they really want to understand 0:18:03.920 --> 0:18:06.520 what's going on in Germany, what's going on in Europe. 0:18:06.720 --> 0:18:10.240 By the way, already in doubles this year, six months ago, 0:18:10.680 --> 0:18:14.440 most of the investors said micro Germany is really good, 0:18:14.520 --> 0:18:18.199 and with that they mean the German corporates, the German companies, Macro. 0:18:18.880 --> 0:18:22.320 You need to do in improvements and that's exactly what 0:18:22.359 --> 0:18:25.280 we want to try now. Of course, the government stepped 0:18:25.320 --> 0:18:28.360 up with the fiscal program, but also with the reforms. 0:18:28.720 --> 0:18:31.359 If we now actually do something sort of say together, 0:18:31.480 --> 0:18:33.720 if we march in parallel, we have. 0:18:33.640 --> 0:18:34.320 A huge chance. 0:18:34.359 --> 0:18:37.520 And then I do believe with further reforms to come, 0:18:37.640 --> 0:18:40.879 and that is necessary. I do believe that this trend 0:18:40.920 --> 0:18:44.760 of reallocating funds to Europe will not stop if we 0:18:44.800 --> 0:18:48.320 are not doing further reforms and just rely on fiscal debt. 0:18:48.880 --> 0:18:51.119 That doesn't help We need the fiscal. 0:18:50.720 --> 0:18:52.960 Reforms and Roland a sort of final question to you 0:18:53.400 --> 0:18:55.680 to sort of close things up. You know, Europe does 0:18:55.720 --> 0:18:57.439 not want to become the United States in a lot 0:18:57.480 --> 0:18:59.560 of different ways, but we do want here sort of 0:18:59.560 --> 0:19:01.320 capital markets like the United States. We do want the 0:19:01.359 --> 0:19:03.520 kind of innovation we have in the United States. From 0:19:03.520 --> 0:19:06.119 what we've seen from the Trump administration and really the 0:19:06.200 --> 0:19:07.760 US for the last couple of decades, what do you 0:19:07.800 --> 0:19:10.439 think Europe can learn it can take from that without 0:19:10.520 --> 0:19:13.640 sort of sacrificing the parts that are very important here. 0:19:13.760 --> 0:19:15.879 And that's a very good point. We have to hold 0:19:15.880 --> 0:19:18.840 in our values. They brought us where we are and 0:19:18.880 --> 0:19:23.439 they are good, and be keep to these values. We 0:19:23.600 --> 0:19:26.440 really have to make structural reforms in Germany but. 0:19:26.440 --> 0:19:27.600 Also on European level. 0:19:28.359 --> 0:19:36.560