WEBVTT - The Shocking Truth of Holiday Returns - Where Your “Stuff” Really Ends Up! 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:03.680 Her job was to get this underwear out of the 0:00:03.840 --> 0:00:08.880 returns package and look at it for They called it residue, 0:00:08.960 --> 0:00:12.360 which that's kind of a. 0:00:11.560 --> 0:00:12.960 If there was stayings in it, and. 0:00:14.520 --> 0:00:18.200 The stuff that was sort of nastier went to one 0:00:18.239 --> 0:00:20.720 of the secondary outlets. 0:00:21.040 --> 0:00:23.160 You know, I won't say the name of it, but what. 0:00:23.239 --> 0:00:29.080 I gotta the secondary outlet, I don't know if I. 0:00:33.600 --> 0:00:34.440 Now really. 0:00:36.560 --> 0:00:41.400 Really really hello and welcome to really know really what's 0:00:41.520 --> 0:00:44.199 Jason Alexander and Peter Tilden who want you to know 0:00:44.280 --> 0:00:46.559 that subscribing to our show is a gift you give 0:00:46.600 --> 0:00:49.960 yourself and that you'll never return. Well, you'll return to 0:00:50.000 --> 0:00:53.440 our show, you just won't return the gift to yourself. 0:00:53.960 --> 0:00:56.880 Whatever. This episode is all about the stuff you did. 0:00:56.720 --> 0:01:01.000 Return over the holidays and what's being called the return Tsunami. 0:01:01.560 --> 0:01:05.160 Doctor Dale Rogers joins Jason and Peter to discuss the 0:01:05.280 --> 0:01:09.080 dark side and the hidden costs of returns, where your 0:01:09.120 --> 0:01:12.399 returns actually end up, and why we're returning so much 0:01:12.440 --> 0:01:14.000 more stuff than ever before. 0:01:14.600 --> 0:01:15.959 You will also learn the. 0:01:16.000 --> 0:01:18.679 Low tech way in which returned clothing is checked for 0:01:18.760 --> 0:01:22.360 stains and smells, how the ninety nine cents Store survived, 0:01:22.600 --> 0:01:26.240 and the real story behind expiration dates. Now here are 0:01:26.360 --> 0:01:28.080 Jason Alexander and Peter Tilden. 0:01:29.880 --> 0:01:32.480 Really, so here's my question to you to open our 0:01:32.520 --> 0:01:38.920 right holidays? You know, get anything you didn't like anything, 0:01:38.959 --> 0:01:41.840 you just want me, that's for me. Not so much 0:01:42.480 --> 0:01:45.680 comes with maybe a receipt you can return it. Lots 0:01:45.720 --> 0:01:49.040 of stuff, lots of stuff you do it not yet, 0:01:49.160 --> 0:01:52.720 not yet, but you're planning on. Yeah, so here's your 0:01:52.760 --> 0:01:56.640 really no, really, the free return on your ugly Christmas 0:01:56.640 --> 0:02:01.120 weather just costs the plan of the trillion dollars. Really no, really, 0:02:01.120 --> 0:02:05.120 where's my belt? It was in front of you. I 0:02:05.120 --> 0:02:09.880 thought I returned it. We're getting a return tsunami. That's 0:02:09.919 --> 0:02:12.760 what it's called a return tsunami. And there's a real 0:02:12.840 --> 0:02:16.560 cost to this that I knew nothing about. This was 0:02:16.760 --> 0:02:19.760 we knew nothing about. I knew nothing about. And you 0:02:19.840 --> 0:02:24.079 set a term to me which which was like reverse. 0:02:24.120 --> 0:02:27.160 Logistics, right and I and. 0:02:27.080 --> 0:02:29.560 I looked at you like like you had a stroke 0:02:29.680 --> 0:02:31.239 because you know me, I don't know what you're doing 0:02:31.240 --> 0:02:31.760 talking about. 0:02:31.840 --> 0:02:35.160 I find so so during COVID, yeah, everybody heard about 0:02:35.160 --> 0:02:37.720 supply chain, supply chain, supply chain. You don't have this, 0:02:37.800 --> 0:02:40.480 We don't have that and we ran on a toilet paper. 0:02:40.480 --> 0:02:41.240 Everybody remembers all. 0:02:41.400 --> 0:02:43.560 I remember that that we were hoarding and doing and 0:02:43.600 --> 0:02:45.480 then when you go a little bit, nobody returned, by 0:02:45.480 --> 0:02:47.119 the way, unused. 0:02:47.160 --> 0:02:48.320 No nobody returned. 0:02:48.480 --> 0:02:49.960 And my wife we invested in it. I bought ten 0:02:49.960 --> 0:02:52.080 thousand dollars both of toilet paper that would go up right. 0:02:52.040 --> 0:02:54.519 And it didn't. We just ended up using it. 0:02:54.600 --> 0:02:58.040 So with the supply chain stuff that that broke down 0:02:58.320 --> 0:03:01.000 doing the COVID thing. Yes, and now I'm hearing about 0:03:01.000 --> 0:03:05.200 the entire upmarket thing of carducts coming back. I've read 0:03:05.320 --> 0:03:08.600 this Christmas, this holiday season returns could be eight hundred 0:03:08.680 --> 0:03:09.400 billion dollars. 0:03:09.480 --> 0:03:13.080 Yeah, So let me just I'm fascinated by this and 0:03:13.120 --> 0:03:15.280 I don't understand it. So ladies and gentlemen, let me 0:03:15.320 --> 0:03:19.400 do the introduction for doctor Dale Rogers. Doctor Rogers is 0:03:19.440 --> 0:03:23.679 a leading researcher in reverse logistics, sustainable supply chain management, 0:03:23.720 --> 0:03:26.960 supply chain finance, and secondary markets, and is published in 0:03:27.000 --> 0:03:29.080 the leading journals of the supply chain. 0:03:28.880 --> 0:03:31.000 And logistics fields. That's not all. 0:03:31.320 --> 0:03:34.560 In twenty twelve, he became the first academic to receive 0:03:34.639 --> 0:03:37.280 the intern And this is an award. You're going to 0:03:37.320 --> 0:03:41.360 be vying for my friend the International Warehouse and Logistics 0:03:41.400 --> 0:03:45.440 Association Distinguished Service Award, first one given its one hundred 0:03:45.480 --> 0:03:46.600 and thirty year history. 0:03:46.800 --> 0:03:50.680 I don't have an Emmy, and this man and we 0:03:50.760 --> 0:03:51.320 go for that. 0:03:51.520 --> 0:03:54.080 Everything I just said, if I hadn't read it off 0:03:54.120 --> 0:03:55.560 the paper, I still don't. 0:03:55.400 --> 0:03:57.920 Know what I'm saying. I don't know anything I just said. 0:03:58.000 --> 0:04:00.160 I think it says that he's the foremost guy and 0:04:00.320 --> 0:04:02.520 talking about what we're gonna asks. 0:04:02.960 --> 0:04:07.800 Hello, doctor Dale Rogers, welcome, nice to be here, Thank 0:04:07.840 --> 0:04:08.520 you for coming in. 0:04:08.600 --> 0:04:12.200 We've been throwing around the term reverse logistics. Can you 0:04:12.320 --> 0:04:14.120 just explain what that is? 0:04:14.640 --> 0:04:20.160 Yes, so it is it is going backwards. So it's 0:04:20.279 --> 0:04:24.080 products that have been for sale or available at somewhere 0:04:24.120 --> 0:04:29.320 in the supply chain and they're either stopped or a 0:04:29.320 --> 0:04:32.720 consumer brings it back and you repurpose them. 0:04:32.800 --> 0:04:35.640 You move them in a reverse fashion. 0:04:35.360 --> 0:04:39.280 For the marketplace to go where perhaps they can be used, 0:04:39.440 --> 0:04:42.760 because your last choice is putting them in a landfill. 0:04:42.839 --> 0:04:45.040 If you do that, you failed. 0:04:45.040 --> 0:04:48.239 And if you're a company whose first choice is putting 0:04:48.279 --> 0:04:50.480 him in a landfill, then then you don't have the 0:04:50.560 --> 0:04:52.880 right guys running supply chain there. 0:04:53.040 --> 0:04:57.479 So if I go online and I see a T 0:04:57.640 --> 0:04:59.720 shirt that I like, but I don't know if I'm 0:04:59.720 --> 0:05:02.120 the small, all the medium, of the large. So I say, hey, 0:05:02.160 --> 0:05:04.680 what the heck? I order all three, and I say 0:05:04.680 --> 0:05:06.599 I'll keep the one that fits me and I send 0:05:06.640 --> 0:05:09.880 back the other two. My assumption is the other two 0:05:10.320 --> 0:05:12.800 we'll go back on a shelf and somebody will buy them, 0:05:13.040 --> 0:05:13.560 am I writer? 0:05:14.160 --> 0:05:17.760 Yeah, mostly that that's true. They mostly will. It's kind 0:05:17.760 --> 0:05:20.920 of funny. You turn on a computer once and it's used, 0:05:21.520 --> 0:05:25.160 but you're underwear. If you buy it and send it back, 0:05:26.160 --> 0:05:29.480 it can be resold as new no more. 0:05:30.279 --> 0:05:33.039 Can I just say, in that scenario, I think we 0:05:33.160 --> 0:05:34.320 got it completely wrong. 0:05:35.040 --> 0:05:36.640 I would flip those I would. 0:05:37.160 --> 0:05:39.800 I would think the one turned on computer and call 0:05:39.880 --> 0:05:41.440 it new the underwear I'm not saying. 0:05:42.320 --> 0:05:45.960 So this sounds like we're figuring out businesses and figuring 0:05:45.960 --> 0:05:48.720 out But then I read that the biggest place that 0:05:48.800 --> 0:05:50.840 takes returns, which is in Pennsylvania, I forget the name 0:05:50.880 --> 0:05:53.240 of it, where a shirt came back and it all 0:05:53.279 --> 0:05:55.520 has to have eyeballs on it. They got to open 0:05:55.560 --> 0:05:57.840 the shirts smell it like you would if you're getting 0:05:57.839 --> 0:06:00.120 another day out of your jeans, smell it, look at 0:06:00.160 --> 0:06:03.520 it for stains, it goes in another bag, It decides 0:06:03.600 --> 0:06:06.240 where it goes next, whether it goes to resale, whether 0:06:06.279 --> 0:06:09.440 it goes to foreign country, whatever. That seems so time intensive. 0:06:09.920 --> 0:06:12.440 And also again it's got to be trucked and shipped, 0:06:12.440 --> 0:06:15.000 and so you talk about the environment. That thing's going 0:06:15.040 --> 0:06:17.279 through a lot of steps. But does everything have to 0:06:17.320 --> 0:06:19.320 have eyeballs on it, human eyeballs. 0:06:18.880 --> 0:06:20.760 On No, a lot of stuff. 0:06:20.800 --> 0:06:23.880 If you return it back to a store, the store 0:06:24.040 --> 0:06:26.880 will disposition at right. In a store, they'll put it 0:06:26.920 --> 0:06:29.880 back on the shelf. So you know, one of the 0:06:30.000 --> 0:06:32.000 rules is you don't want to drive something eight hundred 0:06:32.000 --> 0:06:34.200 miles and then throw it away, all right, So if 0:06:34.240 --> 0:06:37.680 it gets back in that supply chain and that reverse 0:06:37.720 --> 0:06:41.560 supply chain, you do have to check it and make sure. 0:06:41.839 --> 0:06:45.400 I mean, honestly, here's a old man's story for you. 0:06:46.880 --> 0:06:49.880 I think the worst job maybe I've ever seen. I 0:06:50.000 --> 0:06:55.960 was at the Victoria's Secret return center in Ohio, and 0:06:56.120 --> 0:07:00.240 I was in the late two thousands, I think, and 0:07:00.920 --> 0:07:03.920 they had seven people working and they had a massive 0:07:03.920 --> 0:07:05.680 amount of returns. It was sort of the beginning of 0:07:05.680 --> 0:07:09.600 e commerce, and so there was a huge amount of 0:07:09.600 --> 0:07:13.080 returns on some sort of panty styles. 0:07:13.520 --> 0:07:16.080 You had forty percent returns at the time. 0:07:16.440 --> 0:07:19.480 They asked me to come look at the place, and 0:07:19.720 --> 0:07:23.080 I remember watching the reverse process and they said, well, 0:07:23.200 --> 0:07:26.320 let me introduce you to Rita. Who's this lady that 0:07:27.320 --> 0:07:29.239 was working really hard. She was sort of the lead 0:07:29.360 --> 0:07:35.840 and the reprocessing of women's lingerie. And I went to 0:07:35.880 --> 0:07:38.880 shake her hand and she said, oh, you don't want 0:07:38.880 --> 0:07:41.240 to shake my hand. And I thought, oh, maybe she 0:07:41.280 --> 0:07:43.880 thinks I'm going to get her fired or something, but I. 0:07:43.840 --> 0:07:45.640 Said no, no, no, I'm just here to observe. 0:07:45.720 --> 0:07:49.640 And she said, well, no, you don't want to touch me. 0:07:50.320 --> 0:07:53.000 And her job, as you kind of mentioned it was 0:07:53.080 --> 0:07:57.480 to get this underwear out of the returns package and 0:07:57.560 --> 0:08:00.320 look at it for They called it res a do, 0:08:00.720 --> 0:08:05.200 which that's kind of a funny word. And and then 0:08:05.760 --> 0:08:10.360 there was if there was stains in it, and if 0:08:10.360 --> 0:08:13.880 there wasn't, there was a steamer thing that came up 0:08:13.960 --> 0:08:17.480 right by her little bench thing and she would get 0:08:17.480 --> 0:08:20.000 the wrinkles out of it, fold it up, put it 0:08:20.040 --> 0:08:24.440 back in the package. The stuff that was sort of nastier, 0:08:24.680 --> 0:08:27.760 they did throw some things away, but most of the 0:08:27.840 --> 0:08:31.600 stuff went to one of the secondary outlets. 0:08:31.960 --> 0:08:33.600 You know, I won't say the name of it, but 0:08:33.600 --> 0:08:36.960 but isn't that. 0:08:39.000 --> 0:08:45.440 What I got? The secondary outlet? They got the unsteamable undergarments. 0:08:47.440 --> 0:08:50.640 I don't know if I or you know, Yeah, you're 0:08:50.679 --> 0:08:51.680 on the right track. 0:08:53.960 --> 0:08:54.360 Outlets. 0:08:55.000 --> 0:08:59.120 Yeah, so, I mean, and and her job was to 0:08:59.160 --> 0:09:03.080 smell the n and want a guy. 0:09:03.360 --> 0:09:03.520 Right. 0:09:03.720 --> 0:09:07.800 There was a guy was in her group that had 0:09:07.800 --> 0:09:09.280 played football at Ohio State. 0:09:09.400 --> 0:09:11.880 Now he wasn't one of the more successful football players. 0:09:11.880 --> 0:09:12.200 I think. 0:09:12.559 --> 0:09:16.559 There was this huge guy and he had on headphones 0:09:16.600 --> 0:09:18.800 and he kind of had a beat going and I 0:09:18.880 --> 0:09:22.000 was just watching him and he would get the panties 0:09:22.040 --> 0:09:25.040 out of the package and hold him up to his 0:09:25.160 --> 0:09:28.160 note and I thought, boy that I don't know what 0:09:28.160 --> 0:09:28.880 he was thinking. 0:09:29.400 --> 0:09:31.880 In any rate, it was It's one of the worst. 0:09:32.280 --> 0:09:35.120 What is the job interview process? 0:09:35.200 --> 0:09:37.880 For that job? You got to be able to smell right, 0:09:38.040 --> 0:09:43.640 Actually you're kind of go on the sidelines, and you got. 0:09:43.440 --> 0:09:46.840 To recognize certain kinds of sense and you gotta be 0:09:46.880 --> 0:09:50.000 okay with the product you're smelling. But I'm also wondering 0:09:50.040 --> 0:09:51.880 if some people like that job. 0:09:51.920 --> 0:09:56.160 But if you open up the Victoria's Secret Catalog and 0:09:56.200 --> 0:10:00.280 you order you and you order an item and it's 0:10:00.440 --> 0:10:01.480 are you surprised when you got? 0:10:01.520 --> 0:10:03.839 This thing? Has no ass I mean you. 0:10:03.800 --> 0:10:06.000 Can see in the pictures it's a string and a 0:10:06.040 --> 0:10:07.600 string and a kerchief. 0:10:07.640 --> 0:10:10.959 That's all it is. And you open it and go wow, 0:10:11.000 --> 0:10:14.240 I never thought I never expected this before the internet. 0:10:14.240 --> 0:10:17.559 Before dropping off at the postal center returning, I'd rather 0:10:17.640 --> 0:10:18.840 just you know, and I'll just keep it. 0:10:19.000 --> 0:10:21.439 I'll wear it. It's not that big a deal. Now. 0:10:22.280 --> 0:10:25.560 These companies have brought them on themselves, like tom shoes, 0:10:25.600 --> 0:10:28.520 they say, hey, buy four different sizes in different styles, 0:10:28.559 --> 0:10:32.160 and then return to ones you don't like, Try try 0:10:32.200 --> 0:10:32.640 this size. 0:10:32.800 --> 0:10:34.680 I think now the law. 0:10:34.720 --> 0:10:36.600 And the policy just to add to what you're saying, 0:10:36.800 --> 0:10:39.520 where you can read six months, a year down the 0:10:39.559 --> 0:10:40.360 road you can return. 0:10:40.480 --> 0:10:42.600 I was at home depot a woman standing actually with 0:10:42.600 --> 0:10:45.439 two dead plants, and I'm locking like I'm laughing. I'm 0:10:45.440 --> 0:10:47.520 thinking to myself, oh my god, if this poor woman, 0:10:47.600 --> 0:10:49.960 how sad he's brought in, thinks she's going to get attorneys, 0:10:50.320 --> 0:10:53.439 And the woman the desk goes absolutely, we take them 0:10:53.440 --> 0:10:56.360 back after a year, and I'm thinking the retailers have 0:10:56.440 --> 0:11:00.360 gotten so competitive. And then there's the secret lie of hey, 0:11:00.360 --> 0:11:03.160 if it's under twenty bucks and it's certain retailers just 0:11:03.280 --> 0:11:07.080 keep it and people take advanta we'll give you it. 0:11:07.120 --> 0:11:10.679 Really is brilliant though, I mean, think about who were 0:11:10.720 --> 0:11:14.400 the great retailers of the beginning of the twentieth century, 0:11:14.480 --> 0:11:16.120 So Sears and JC Penny. 0:11:16.360 --> 0:11:19.360 They're not the great retailers anymore, unfortunately. 0:11:18.800 --> 0:11:18.880 But. 0:11:20.800 --> 0:11:24.280 If you think about how they both really made it. 0:11:24.320 --> 0:11:25.160 So J. C. 0:11:25.360 --> 0:11:29.360 Penny, James Cashpenny, he's this guy. He's got a general 0:11:29.440 --> 0:11:32.400 store and Kimera, Wyoming. I don't know if you've ever 0:11:32.480 --> 0:11:34.880 been to Kimer. I actually have been there. I had 0:11:34.880 --> 0:11:38.600 to go see the mother's store and it's about the size. 0:11:38.920 --> 0:11:40.760 Maybe it's a little bit bigger than the room we're 0:11:40.760 --> 0:11:43.360 sitting in, but Kimer is not a big place. 0:11:44.000 --> 0:11:47.559 So what was his innovation, Well, cash and carry. 0:11:47.320 --> 0:11:49.880 When most times you went to a general store, you 0:11:49.880 --> 0:11:51.480 would put it on a tab and pay at the 0:11:51.600 --> 0:11:55.000 end of the month. So he was using his cash better. 0:11:55.720 --> 0:11:58.880 And then the other thing was no questions asked returns, 0:11:59.760 --> 0:12:03.240 And what that did was it removed risk from the 0:12:03.360 --> 0:12:07.440 consumer because they knew that they could go back to 0:12:07.480 --> 0:12:11.040 that store and you become a customer for life instead 0:12:11.040 --> 0:12:14.840 of being nervous about man if I invest in whatever 0:12:14.920 --> 0:12:17.920 this is, a blanket or or a shirt or whatever 0:12:17.920 --> 0:12:21.200 it is, then I don't know, you know, I'm stuck 0:12:21.240 --> 0:12:26.080 with it. But no questions asked returns really transfers that 0:12:26.240 --> 0:12:28.559 risk and you end up with a customer for life. 0:12:28.720 --> 0:12:31.520 So it really is a brilliant thing. It makes a 0:12:31.520 --> 0:12:33.800 lot of sense. We're seeing retailers trying to go back 0:12:33.840 --> 0:12:37.400 on that right now because of the avalanche returns. But 0:12:37.520 --> 0:12:40.360 I just bet, because we've seen this before where they're 0:12:40.400 --> 0:12:43.040 trying to slow it down, I just bet I'm not 0:12:43.040 --> 0:12:44.920 going to bet they're not going to because. 0:12:44.640 --> 0:12:47.760 It's it's too good. It's it's the best kind of 0:12:48.520 --> 0:12:52.280 accurate A twenty dollars sweater. I read the cost of 0:12:52.320 --> 0:12:55.960 the return, Cadrico was it's thirteen though, So that means 0:12:56.000 --> 0:12:59.600 if my neighbor's a serial returner, I'm paying for their 0:12:59.640 --> 0:13:02.880 return and by building that into the price of the sweater. 0:13:03.120 --> 0:13:06.920 Well, and there's efficient ways where that stuff gets sort 0:13:06.960 --> 0:13:11.240 of pulled out of the forward market and goes through 0:13:11.280 --> 0:13:16.120 the reverse logistics supply chain, and you've got all these 0:13:16.160 --> 0:13:21.160 different players who mostly are invisible. But there's some really 0:13:21.200 --> 0:13:25.120 big salvage dealers. We call them in the UK, they're 0:13:25.120 --> 0:13:29.120 called cabbagemen. And you'll get, say a truckload or a 0:13:29.160 --> 0:13:34.400 couple of truckloads of stuff from Macy's or Dillard's or Bloomingdale's, 0:13:35.040 --> 0:13:38.720 and you will parse that out and then you know, 0:13:38.800 --> 0:13:42.520 we've got this whole sort of new ecosystem of eBay 0:13:42.600 --> 0:13:46.600 power sellers who are maybe people that there have to 0:13:46.679 --> 0:13:51.000 be home because of some physical reason, and and now 0:13:51.040 --> 0:13:54.199 they're able to make a living by buying and then reselling. 0:13:54.800 --> 0:13:59.440 And it's a very efficient, uh secondary market Chaine, that's 0:14:00.080 --> 0:14:04.040 it's actually pretty big. We calculate the numbers every year 0:14:04.720 --> 0:14:11.120 and we're over seven hundred billion dollars in that secondary market. 0:14:11.480 --> 0:14:14.360 It's over three percent of GDP. It's a very important 0:14:14.400 --> 0:14:18.120 part of the US economy. Now, where it's stuck in 0:14:18.160 --> 0:14:22.880 a landfill in Chili or in Columbia, that's not good. 0:14:23.000 --> 0:14:25.320 We've mentioned the Chili thing because that was another reason 0:14:25.440 --> 0:14:29.000 we did this topic. There's so much clothing that's either 0:14:29.080 --> 0:14:33.120 overproduced or returned in Chili that it's on mounds that 0:14:33.160 --> 0:14:35.120 you can see from space. And I got I got 0:14:35.160 --> 0:14:38.000 here one truckload of clothing is sent to a landfill 0:14:38.120 --> 0:14:41.200 or burn every second. And let's see, Chili has become 0:14:41.440 --> 0:14:44.520 thirty nine thousand tons of old so unsold clothing. That's 0:14:44.560 --> 0:14:45.480 a lot on sold clothing. 0:14:45.880 --> 0:14:49.360 Well, and and and though that's really a failure because 0:14:49.760 --> 0:14:55.600 because there should be a marketplace for that somewhere. The 0:14:55.760 --> 0:15:00.880 problem is how much labor can you put into an item. 0:15:00.920 --> 0:15:03.000 I'm still back on the fact that you've pronounced the 0:15:03.000 --> 0:15:05.120 country Chile as Chili. 0:15:05.640 --> 0:15:10.520 Chile, Chile, Chile. Yeah, not Chili, not Chili. It's not 0:15:10.560 --> 0:15:14.040 the thing you it is Chili. Use this Chile. So 0:15:14.080 --> 0:15:15.280 I just wanted to point that out. 0:15:15.400 --> 0:15:18.680 I really haven't listened to the rest of the show. 0:15:18.840 --> 0:15:22.000 We're saying a lot of words here, here's here's here's 0:15:22.040 --> 0:15:25.840 the thought I'm thinking about. 0:15:26.360 --> 0:15:27.640 I'm honestly thinking about. 0:15:28.800 --> 0:15:30.920 There are people in my family who do a fair 0:15:30.960 --> 0:15:32.800 amount of returns and they and they know they're going 0:15:32.840 --> 0:15:35.640 to do it. They they you know, like I said, 0:15:35.680 --> 0:15:37.240 it may be that they don't know what the sizing 0:15:37.320 --> 0:15:37.960 so they do them. 0:15:38.520 --> 0:15:44.360 But what has has has retailers thought. 0:15:44.160 --> 0:15:46.800 Of the idea or maybe it's an impractical idea of 0:15:47.040 --> 0:15:51.520 charging an additional fee for the consumer for an item 0:15:51.560 --> 0:15:54.080 that could be returned and then going okay, you're not 0:15:54.160 --> 0:15:56.480 returning it will rebate the cost. 0:15:56.640 --> 0:15:58.520 But at least now if you. 0:15:58.480 --> 0:16:00.840 Do return it, we're going to we're going to recoup 0:16:00.880 --> 0:16:02.600 our problem because if we have to repurpose this or 0:16:02.640 --> 0:16:04.680 if we have to trash that item, well. 0:16:04.480 --> 0:16:08.520 If they can, they they wouldn't tell the consumer. There's 0:16:08.600 --> 0:16:10.520 a I mean, because they just keep it if. 0:16:10.480 --> 0:16:10.960 They can see. 0:16:11.000 --> 0:16:13.360 But then there's no inst because if they don't tell 0:16:13.400 --> 0:16:16.360 the consumer either they've priced me out of that product, 0:16:17.240 --> 0:16:18.840 where otherwise, if I knew I was going to get 0:16:18.840 --> 0:16:22.040 a refund back, if I'm seriously going to keep this product, 0:16:22.080 --> 0:16:23.720 I would go, Okay, now it's a reasonable price. 0:16:23.720 --> 0:16:25.280 I know I'm going to get refunded that thing. 0:16:25.440 --> 0:16:26.880 It's like taking you know, when I go to the 0:16:26.880 --> 0:16:28.920 hotel and they take the deposit upfront, I know it's 0:16:28.920 --> 0:16:31.760 coming back to me. But why wouldn't they do that 0:16:31.800 --> 0:16:45.600 to offset their costs? But why wouldn't they do that 0:16:45.640 --> 0:16:49.560 more of they use more of a disincentive, which is 0:16:49.560 --> 0:16:53.720 called a restocking fee. So if you send it back, 0:16:53.760 --> 0:16:56.560 they say, well, we're not going to refund one hundred percent, 0:16:57.240 --> 0:16:59.560 We'll refund five that. 0:16:59.360 --> 0:17:01.960 That's what that stocking fit. So that's the resite. So 0:17:02.000 --> 0:17:05.280 that's normally how how how they would do it. Now 0:17:05.320 --> 0:17:09.160 it's hard to continue to charge restocking fees. A lot 0:17:09.200 --> 0:17:12.840 of companies have tried it and have backed off because 0:17:12.880 --> 0:17:14.719 consumers don't like it. 0:17:14.760 --> 0:17:17.439 And then the end of the day, you need consumers. 0:17:16.920 --> 0:17:20.560 To show up, and you know, it's it's it's easy 0:17:20.640 --> 0:17:23.760 to return stuff, but it isn't always easy, and so 0:17:25.520 --> 0:17:28.280 you know, people will think, well, I'll get around to 0:17:28.320 --> 0:17:30.360 that someday, and then all of a sudden you realize 0:17:30.400 --> 0:17:32.280 it's a year later and you still got it. And 0:17:32.880 --> 0:17:37.880 so it works really for the companies they actually think 0:17:37.880 --> 0:17:41.000 it's a good strategy. And some folks, you know, like 0:17:41.080 --> 0:17:43.840 Warby Parker, I'm sure you know those stories, they actually 0:17:43.880 --> 0:17:48.800 built their model around efficient returns and and. 0:17:49.200 --> 0:17:51.280 Pick five keep one. We're good, right. 0:17:52.000 --> 0:17:56.880 Companies keep trying to push back on consumers and and 0:17:56.880 --> 0:18:01.680 and slow this stuff down, but it always comes back 0:18:01.720 --> 0:18:03.240 to the old J. C. 0:18:03.440 --> 0:18:06.480 Penny and you. 0:18:06.440 --> 0:18:09.320 Want to remove wrist from the consumer because that's how 0:18:09.359 --> 0:18:10.840 the consumer keeps you seem to. 0:18:10.840 --> 0:18:13.000 Be partaking of any of those companies. 0:18:13.920 --> 0:18:17.080 And I'm so also how they've got it together that 0:18:17.160 --> 0:18:19.040 I can order something and it comes to my house 0:18:19.080 --> 0:18:22.000 eat later that day or tomorrow, if they're that good 0:18:22.160 --> 0:18:23.880 at supply chain that way. 0:18:24.400 --> 0:18:26.720 I mean, I can't believe we wait before. 0:18:27.400 --> 0:18:29.520 Not only does it come to your house an hour 0:18:29.640 --> 0:18:32.359 after you ordered it, but it's like I ordered a 0:18:32.400 --> 0:18:35.399 big pen and it comes in a box that you 0:18:35.440 --> 0:18:39.960 could put right with packing peanuts and bubble wrap, and 0:18:40.000 --> 0:18:42.560 I what, what is it? I don't know if this 0:18:42.680 --> 0:18:44.640 is your area, but you know, the closest I have 0:18:44.720 --> 0:18:47.800 to what is with the packing materials? 0:18:48.560 --> 0:18:50.640 What is the waste situation on the. 0:18:50.920 --> 0:18:55.000 Well, they don't have uh, they don't have a packaging. 0:18:55.560 --> 0:18:59.600 They don't have a box right or for every size 0:18:59.720 --> 0:19:03.320 escape you you know. But it's way better in twenty 0:19:03.359 --> 0:19:06.600 twenty three than it was in say, two thousand and five, 0:19:06.640 --> 0:19:10.280 because remember they start out as a book company and 0:19:10.280 --> 0:19:13.400 and VHS tapes and back then they they only they 0:19:13.440 --> 0:19:19.560 really so on a on a packing line. There's only 0:19:19.680 --> 0:19:24.240 so many packages you you can store. You can't have 0:19:24.640 --> 0:19:25.199 a thousand. 0:19:25.359 --> 0:19:27.880 I can't believe. Look, I've got a bell and a pen. 0:19:28.560 --> 0:19:30.760 What size? But if you see it, if you see. 0:19:30.600 --> 0:19:32.399 These two items and a box comes in front of 0:19:32.400 --> 0:19:34.919 you on the conveyor belt that you can put a 0:19:35.000 --> 0:19:35.760 toaster up and in. 0:19:36.359 --> 0:19:38.919 Do you really go, Okay, we're good. You don't have 0:19:39.000 --> 0:19:42.960 to hate your job. I'm loving that you're going. 0:19:43.040 --> 0:19:44.119 I don't know if this is her air, but I 0:19:44.200 --> 0:19:46.520 got some personal stuff I need address. 0:19:45.960 --> 0:19:47.040 So I have to make this. 0:19:47.200 --> 0:19:50.200 I haven't made a penny off of this pot. 0:19:50.880 --> 0:19:52.320 I got two pair of pants. I gotta go back. 0:19:52.400 --> 0:19:55.680 Can you take a look. It's like you don't sniffing first, 0:19:56.280 --> 0:19:56.919 that is coming. 0:19:57.240 --> 0:20:00.239 Do you think that that moving on from the the 0:20:00.320 --> 0:20:03.680 reverse logistics and the fact that so much is getting wasted, 0:20:03.720 --> 0:20:05.600 et cetera. Do you think if they let the public, 0:20:05.600 --> 0:20:08.280 if people knew or if they tested it, if people 0:20:08.359 --> 0:20:11.919 knew the impact of the returns, that they would be 0:20:12.640 --> 0:20:16.320 more reticent or they would change their behavior somewhat. 0:20:17.760 --> 0:20:21.800 Well, I think there are some companies that encourage consumers 0:20:21.840 --> 0:20:24.560 to engage. You know, if you look at Patagonia, they 0:20:24.560 --> 0:20:28.360 have a really interesting model. So you buy a jacket 0:20:28.560 --> 0:20:33.399 from Patagonia. Usually it's higher price than maybe something that 0:20:33.840 --> 0:20:36.800 would be sort of similar to that jacket, right, but 0:20:36.880 --> 0:20:39.280 they want you to keep that for the rest of 0:20:39.320 --> 0:20:41.840 your life, and you can send it back at no 0:20:42.000 --> 0:20:45.600 charge then because if it gets ripped or whatever, I 0:20:45.680 --> 0:20:50.040 can get it fixed. So you know, but not everybody 0:20:50.080 --> 0:20:53.679 wants Patagonia. Maybe you just want the change purchase price. 0:20:54.240 --> 0:20:57.280 And if you go down the street here in this neighborhood, man, 0:20:57.280 --> 0:21:00.720 I couldn't believe how many like little outlets stores ninety 0:21:00.800 --> 0:21:03.440 nine since stores, those ninety nine sense. 0:21:03.240 --> 0:21:06.080