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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly

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Speaker 1: conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small

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Speaker 1: decisions we can make to become the best possible versions

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Speaker 1: of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor Joy Harden Bradford, a

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Speaker 1: licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or to

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Speaker 1: find a therapist in your area, visit our website at

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Speaker 1: Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you love

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Speaker 1: listening to and learning from the podcast, it is not

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Speaker 1: meant to be a substitute for a relationship with a

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Speaker 1: licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much for

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Speaker 1: joining me for session three twelve of the Therapy for

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Speaker 1: Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into our conversation after

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Speaker 1: a word from our sponsors. We've had dozens of therapists

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Speaker 1: on the podcast sharing their perspectives on various topics, from

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Speaker 1: friendships to meditation, and even horror movies. But have you

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Speaker 1: ever wondered what it takes to become a licensed therapist? Well,

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Speaker 1: the road isn't paved in gold, more like a few

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Speaker 1: years of school and thousands of hours in supervision. But

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Speaker 1: don't fret. This third installment of our Becoming a Therapist

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Speaker 1: series is for our community members who are therapists, sisters

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Speaker 1: looking to enter the field, and everyone in between. Joining

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Speaker 1: me today are therapist doctor Kimberly Applewhite based in Utah,

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Speaker 1: doctor DeAndrea Jackson based in Ohio, doctor Donna Oriowo in Washington,

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Speaker 1: d C. And Josephine and Paul Green in Colorado. Collegues

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Speaker 1: and I got candid about our journeys and talked about

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Speaker 1: the different ways to market yourself and increase your caseload,

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Speaker 1: how to navigate social media and ethics, and weighing your

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Speaker 1: options between starting your own private practice are working in

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Speaker 1: a group setting our agency. If something resonates with you

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Speaker 1: while enjoying our conversation, please share it with us on

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Speaker 1: social media using the hashtag TVG in Session, or join

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Speaker 1: us over in the sister circle to talk more in

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Speaker 1: depth about the episode. You can join us at community

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Speaker 1: dot therapy for Blackgirls dot Com. Here's our conversation. Well,

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Speaker 1: I am so excited that all of you are able

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Speaker 1: to join us for part three now of our incredible

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Speaker 1: conversation of becoming a therapist. Who knew that this was

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Speaker 1: spin into like its own little mini series, But I

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Speaker 1: think the community has just valued your voices so much so,

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Speaker 1: I'm glad that you were all able to join us

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Speaker 1: again today. So one of the questions that we have

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Speaker 1: not been able to get to that I really want

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Speaker 1: to spend some time talking about is the idea of

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Speaker 1: marketing yourself as a private practice therapist or even if

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Speaker 1: you're not in private practice, you still want a caseload, right,

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Speaker 1: And this is definitely one of those things that they

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Speaker 1: did not teach us in grad school. I don't know

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Speaker 1: if grad schools are teaching this now, but definitely when

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Speaker 1: I graduated, there was no marketing, like how do you

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Speaker 1: even get your first client? So what did you do

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Speaker 1: or what are you currently doing to market yourself? And

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Speaker 1: what would you like other therapists to know about different

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Speaker 1: avenues or different opportunities they might have to market themselves

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Speaker 1: as a therapist.

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Speaker 2: One thing I used with social media, especially when I

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Speaker 2: was getting started, I needed people to understand what it

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Speaker 2: was exactly that I was doing as a therapist that

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Speaker 2: may not meet whatever they think a therapist is supposed

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Speaker 2: to do, right, so as a sex and relationship therapist,

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Speaker 2: but with a focus on colorism and texturalism. A lot

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Speaker 2: of the work that I was doing is let me

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Speaker 2: educate you about what this thing is and why you

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Speaker 2: might need this thing. So educate from that perspective in

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Speaker 2: social media was a really great help because it opened

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Speaker 2: the door for people to understand exactly what it was.

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Speaker 3: I was doing, why I was doing, and why they.

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Speaker 2: Might want to come and see me specifically, because, despite

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Speaker 2: what they say profile on psychology today, therapy for black

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Speaker 2: girls and whatever, plethora of other spaces is not enough.

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Speaker 2: That's more passive, and I wanted to be more active.

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Speaker 2: So in addition to that type of marketing, I talked

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Speaker 2: to therapists in this area.

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Speaker 3: I'm like, who are.

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Speaker 2: The people who see my people who might at some

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Speaker 2: point be on overflow and need somebody to service backup?

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Speaker 2: Like me, pick me, choose me, love me. So that's

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Speaker 2: what I was, especially when I started.

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Speaker 4: I feel like so many of those points were so wise,

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Speaker 4: Doctor Donna, because I was just talking to somebody on

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Speaker 4: the phone before I got on here. So my background

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Speaker 4: is in child psychology, but I don't do a lot

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Speaker 4: of assessments now, so I'll pretty much only do them

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Speaker 4: for BIPOD clients or when one of my black clinician's

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Speaker 4: colleagues refers them to me because I really do not

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Speaker 4: like report writings like anti marketing. But I was telling

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Speaker 4: this parrot because they were talking about how hard it

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Speaker 4: is to find black therapists, especially here in Utah where

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Speaker 4: I'm based, and I'm like, I think we've got this

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Speaker 4: underground railroad situation where we know who will do what,

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Speaker 4: and so I do think it's so wise to talk

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Speaker 4: to other therapists in the area. It may seem like competition,

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Speaker 4: but because we're all doing kind of different things, even

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Speaker 4: if we have the same focus on audiences, we might

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Speaker 4: have a different flavor, different priorities, and so it's not competition.

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Speaker 4: And I would love to decolonize competition, Like I think

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Speaker 4: there's enough for all of us if we're working together.

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Speaker 4: And so I really just value a lot of what

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Speaker 4: you said, and also just the value of social media.

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Speaker 4: That was something that I was taught on one of

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Speaker 4: my post fellowships that was public health emphasized. Like all

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Speaker 4: of the doctors, all of the fellows, they were all

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Speaker 4: on social media, and that's how a lot of times

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Speaker 4: you get to see what's going on in the world,

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Speaker 4: what other people are saying, to exchange ideas, and then

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Speaker 4: that becomes its own marketing across the country, especially for

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Speaker 4: psychologists who have sie packed capability. If you apply for sypack,

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Speaker 4: which means that you can see people in many states,

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Speaker 4: over thirty states, so people who were just limiting their

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Speaker 4: marketing to their state. I also have just looked at

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Speaker 4: how being careful about how I am describing myself. Our

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Speaker 4: company takes lera client. Soleira is a third party contractor.

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Speaker 4: It works with a lot of employee assistance programs. But

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Speaker 4: for like pretty expansive companies, and on those platforms, you

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Speaker 4: only get so much space to describe who you are,

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Speaker 4: and so then it's important that how you communicate things

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Speaker 4: has the flavor of who you are too, and not

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Speaker 4: just what you do. Because I work at an evidence

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Speaker 4: based place, that's how it markets itself. Then my first

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Speaker 4: profiles sound a little bit like an evidence paced robot,

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Speaker 4: like I do I do, and I'm like I read

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Speaker 4: them all recently. I'm like, this is not even who

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Speaker 4: I am anymore, Like I'm just a therapist.

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Speaker 3: You could kick it.

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Speaker 4: And so just being able to communicate that stuff in

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Speaker 4: your language, I think is important if you're going to

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Speaker 4: go those traditional marketing routes, because you are still a

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Speaker 4: brand like even if you're fresh out of school, you're

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Speaker 4: a brand.

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Speaker 5: Like doctor Donna said, people who already have the audience

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Speaker 5: that you're looking for. And if I'm looking to work

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Speaker 5: with black women, then I'm gonna be talking to hairstylists

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Speaker 5: about what it is that I do and how I

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Speaker 5: can offer support to them and to their clientele. Because

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Speaker 5: you know, we've said in the salon chair and we

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Speaker 5: get to talking and people will talk about their problems

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Speaker 5: and does the line is not always the place to

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Speaker 5: get the skills and the resources. So just being a

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Speaker 5: walking marketing opportunity for yourself talking to anyone who might

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Speaker 5: have your clientele as a captive audience, I think would be.

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Speaker 6: I think that they're so much good that has been said.

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Speaker 6: What I would add is that even though there are

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Speaker 6: all of these traditional sort of ways of marketing, like

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Speaker 6: social media, well I guess social media is becoming a

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Speaker 6: bit more traditional talking to other therapists, talking to other doctors.

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Speaker 6: I have personally found that working with other agencies that

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Speaker 6: are full and overflowing has been a really great way

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Speaker 6: to also get in the door. And I find that

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Speaker 6: talking to many different folks who are not necessarily in

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Speaker 6: the mental health world or connected to the mental health

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Speaker 6: world tend to really not have a strong understanding of

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Speaker 6: what we do. So I find myself even there was

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Speaker 6: a time at the airport not too long ago, or

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Speaker 6: I ended up like explaining what it means to be

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Speaker 6: a trauma therapist and it opened up this whole conversation.

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Speaker 6: I was even able to get a referral from that.

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Speaker 6: So I think it's really important to remember that our

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Speaker 6: referrals can come from even very obscure and peculiar places.

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Speaker 1: So for those of you who've talked about using social

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Speaker 1: media to market yourself and market your practice, because even

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Speaker 1: though a lot of this has not been talked about

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Speaker 1: in grad school, social media definitely is one that I

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Speaker 1: think there are some conversations now happening, but definitely not

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Speaker 1: a lot. And we know that our ethical codes typically

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Speaker 1: are at least five years behind like where we are

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Speaker 1: in reality as practitioners. So what kinds of things would

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Speaker 1: you want therapists or future therapists to know about what

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Speaker 1: it looks like to market yourself on social media? Because

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Speaker 1: as licensed professionals, I do think we have to be

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Speaker 1: careful in what marketing looks like and like being sure

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Speaker 1: not to overpromise things and like just maybe operating outside

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Speaker 1: of our scope of expertise. So what kinds of things

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Speaker 1: do you want therapists to know about what looks like

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Speaker 1: to ethically market yourself on social media.

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Speaker 6: I'll go first on this one. I have a social

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Speaker 6: media manager who is going to be going into public

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Speaker 6: health for her master's degree and looks through and helps

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Speaker 6: me plan everything. She's a gift of a human being, Divya,

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Speaker 6: and I find that if there is a second set

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Speaker 6: of eyes on what I'm doing and I have to

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Speaker 6: explain to somebody why I am doing what I'm doing,

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Speaker 6: and they who are not like Dibya is not a therapist,

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Speaker 6: will be able to answer or ask me like is

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Speaker 6: this ethical? It encourages me to make sure and double check.

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Speaker 6: So I think for me personally, it's been really helpful

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Speaker 6: to collaborate with other folks and make sure that what

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Speaker 6: I'm putting out there hits what's ethical without like what

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Speaker 6: you were saying, doctor Joy over promising. I also think

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Speaker 6: that social media there's a lot of things that are

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Speaker 6: really trendy. I personally am not that great at it,

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Speaker 6: but I think that knowing what trends are actually useful

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Speaker 6: for us to lean into versus which ones we probably

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Speaker 6: could like just lean back from is also important when

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Speaker 6: looking at ethics. But I personally find that if I

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Speaker 6: have to explain why I'm putting something on social media

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Speaker 6: to another person, then I'm sure that what I'm doing

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Speaker 6: I can argue in the future.

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Speaker 5: Social media is not where I do most of my marketing,

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Speaker 5: but I think the thing that's kept me from doing that.

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Speaker 5: My concern around is this the best place to market

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Speaker 5: myself has been those dns and whether or not people

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Speaker 5: might try to reach out and ask questions or divulge

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Speaker 5: information without me even asking. That might tiptoe us in

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Speaker 5: to areas of limits of confidentiality and all kinds of

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Speaker 5: other ethical issues. That's why I've been a little bit

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Speaker 5: hesitant on social media myself, but I'm open to any

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Speaker 5: feedback on that.

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Speaker 2: I have found that you got to state your boundaries,

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Speaker 2: and you state them early, and you state them often right. So,

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Speaker 2: as a sex therapist, dig pics are part of my

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Speaker 2: reality because people will send them, but I don't have

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Speaker 2: to open it, I don't have to check it, I

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Speaker 2: don't have to respond. For all of our clients, we

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Speaker 2: send regular when my that you are not allowed to

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Speaker 2: ask nary a question in the DM, not even when

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Speaker 2: your next appointment is that you will be deleted and

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Speaker 2: blocked because Meta is not known for keeping secrets, and

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Speaker 2: while we have an ethical obligation to keep your secrets,

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Speaker 2: Meta does not. And something that had happened a few

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Speaker 2: years ago where a private conversation that somebody was having

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Speaker 2: in their DMS was used to prosecute somebody, let us

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Speaker 2: know that Meta is not your friend, So stay up

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Speaker 2: out of those dms.

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Speaker 3: Right. But for me where it comes to social media

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Speaker 3: and ethics, like, I definitely.

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Speaker 2: Understand that we all come from an ethical space, right

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Speaker 2: ethical background, but I also like to remember that white

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Speaker 2: supremacist capitalism created those ethics, which means that I have

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Speaker 2: to do additional work to decolonize those ethics to even

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Speaker 2: make sure that they make sense for what it is

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Speaker 2: that I do and how it is that I approach

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Speaker 2: things right, Because I mean, ethically, you're not supposed to

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Speaker 2: take anything from a client, but when you work with

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Speaker 2: black clients, you might just now had separated yourself from

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Speaker 2: your client in such a way that you will not

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Speaker 2: be able to build the type of therapeutic relationship that

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Speaker 2: you are needing to build in order to do the

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Speaker 2: work that you are trying to do, especially for the

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Speaker 2: sensitive work that I talk about. Right, I'm in sexuality,

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Speaker 2: which means that I mean, I mean we're talking about

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Speaker 2: that nitty gritty that download, that.

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Speaker 3: Thing we be doing in the bedrooms.

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Speaker 2: So I have found that I have to make sure

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Speaker 2: that I am outlining what my parameters are. And it's

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Speaker 2: like no questions in the DMS, no requests for therapy

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Speaker 2: in the DMS. If you want therapy, email, if you

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Speaker 2: want therapy, go to this website, but we are not

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Speaker 2: engaging with you in this way in the DMS. If

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Speaker 2: it looks inappropriate, we simply do not answer. We will

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Speaker 2: delete it, we'll block it, we'll restrict, we'll do what

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Speaker 2: we got to do on our end, because we recognize

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Speaker 2: that the onus is on us the owners, is not

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Speaker 2: on the people who are on social media. They're just

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Speaker 2: using social media the way that they've been known or

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Speaker 2: taught to use social media. So the DMS is not

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Speaker 2: my favorite place to be, which means I simply am not.

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Speaker 2: We check those things like once or twice a month,

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Speaker 2: which means that if you DM does Finn to see it.

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Speaker 2: But as far as the other pieces of what I

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Speaker 2: think of around as ethical behavior on social media, being

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Speaker 2: yourself right, it has already been established I think by

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Speaker 2: doctor Kim. Remember that you are a brand, but you

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Speaker 2: are also a person. So being yourself on social media

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Speaker 2: is one of the surefiest ways to make sure that

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Speaker 2: you're probably not lying on social media either, right, and

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Speaker 2: to stay in your lane, whatever that lane is that

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Speaker 2: you have carved out for yourself. I'm not saying don't

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Speaker 2: talk about nothing else. Ever, I'm saying that I would

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Speaker 2: constantly be asking myself why am I posting the thing

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Speaker 2: that I'm posting. What do I hope that my ideal

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Speaker 2: person is getting from the content that I'm wanting to

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Speaker 2: put out. Some things are appropriate for a conversation in

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Speaker 2: a group chat with your friends, Some things are appropriate

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Speaker 2: for the therapy for Black Girls Thrive Tribe, Some things

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Speaker 2: are appropriate for your journal. Everything is not appropriate for

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Speaker 2: social media. But I think that sometimes because we have

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Speaker 2: been in an oversharing culture, sometimes we lack the discernment

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Speaker 2: to know. And I think that if you know this

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Speaker 2: about yourself, if you know that you're not always sure

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Speaker 2: what should be on social media or on the side

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Speaker 2: of note, you don't have to do social media to

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Speaker 2: market yourself or to even feel your practice. It's one

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Speaker 2: way to feel your practice. And if you can't be

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Speaker 2: sure about what is okay and not okay to post,

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Speaker 2: then maybe just don't post anything until you figure it out.

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Speaker 4: I love all that. Yeah, I agree with so much

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Speaker 4: of this, And I was just thinking when Josephine said

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Speaker 4: she had a social media manager, I was like, oh man,

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Speaker 4: that like imposter center, And part of my brain was like,

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Speaker 4: I would never get to a place where I died

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Speaker 4: a social media manager. But then I was like, but wait,

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Speaker 4: there's so much that ethically we need, and so it's

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Speaker 4: so important, especially like starting your own practice or working

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Speaker 4: in practice, that you just value yourself enough to do

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Speaker 4: things right, like to have people that are checking things

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Speaker 4: that can even be outside of the mental health field,

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Speaker 4: to decipher things to say like is it even relevant

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Speaker 4: for the audience that you're trying to reach, is it understandable,

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Speaker 4: is it ethical? Like what kind of boundaries says it cross?

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Speaker 4: I think a lot of times it's easy to get

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Speaker 4: into your own silo of what you think is important

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Speaker 4: or what you think has to be said, and even

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Speaker 4: be kind of emotion minded about it. A lot of

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Speaker 4: times urgency of situations or things that we see today

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Speaker 4: happening in the world, you're like, Okay, I gotta say something.

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Speaker 4: I have to act now. And it is so wise,

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Speaker 4: especially with social media that lasts forever, to just have

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Speaker 4: people that support you and check and balances and yeah,

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Speaker 4: to care about yourself and your practice and what you're

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Speaker 4: trying to cultivate and the service you're trying to provide,

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Speaker 4: to set yourself up well to do those things.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And you know, this really leads me to a

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Speaker 1: different question around like building a team, right. So I

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Speaker 1: think several of you have talked about having people that

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Speaker 1: work in your practice. Josephine you talked about having a

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Speaker 1: social media manager, and doctor Orioel you mentioned we will

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Speaker 1: block or delete messages, which makes me think that's not

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Speaker 1: you doing that, that you have some team members, And

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Speaker 1: so I would love to hear like how you have

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Speaker 1: grown your practices, right, whether that means hiring new clinicians

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Speaker 1: to work in your practice or hiring these other professionals

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Speaker 1: like social media managers, because again I was not taught

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Speaker 1: any hr in grad school about like what it means

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Speaker 1: to like hire people and benefits and all this stuff.

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Speaker 3: And it's so much.

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Speaker 1: Because we are building I think where we find ourselves

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Speaker 1: now in twenty twenty three, we're building very different kinds

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Speaker 1: of practices in mental health businesses than we probably would

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Speaker 1: have been like fifteen years ago. Right, So what has

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Speaker 1: that process been like for you to figure out, like

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Speaker 1: how to hire new people in your practice or in

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Speaker 1: your business, and what do you wish you would have

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Speaker 1: known before you started that process.

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Speaker 5: I got an attorney, let me tell you, because I

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Speaker 5: wasn't trying to make any legal mistakes and any differences

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Speaker 5: between an employee versus an independent contract to Honey draft

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Speaker 5: this contract for me, so I know exactly what my

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Speaker 5: parameters are. And I think it's so important to recognize

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Speaker 5: when you're moving into private practice and you're stepping into

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Speaker 5: the space of business ownership. Business ownership doesn't mean you

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Speaker 5: have to do it all. It means you're aware. It

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Speaker 5: means you're knowledgeable, It means you have vision and foresight,

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Speaker 5: but you don't have to be the person doing every

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Speaker 5: single piece of it. So surrounding yourself with the individuals

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Speaker 5: with the knowledge that you need in order to be successful,

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Speaker 5: whether that's somebody who can be a business consultant to you,

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Speaker 5: an attorney of course, your accountant or your tax planner.

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Speaker 5: All of those kind of people are so important in

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Speaker 5: addition to finding clinicians who will come alongside and journey

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Speaker 5: with you on your vision.

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Speaker 3: It's my perspective. Ooh what you said.

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Speaker 2: I'm just like yes, because everybody wants to stand in

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Speaker 2: the space of I know everything, all the time, all

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Speaker 2: at once, and then, just like bay Back, stay in

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Speaker 2: your lane. My lane is therapy, my lane is speaking,

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Speaker 2: My lane is teaching. These are things that I know

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Speaker 2: how to do. These are things that I've been trained

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Speaker 2: how to do. You know who don't know how to

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Speaker 2: do accounting very well?

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Speaker 1: Me?

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Speaker 2: You know who don't understand the algorithm because that's not

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Speaker 2: my job. So what I've found to be helpful, or

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Speaker 2: at least the first person that I hired was the

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Speaker 2: person that was going to help me to streamline my

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Speaker 2: processes so I could spend more time in my zone

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Speaker 2: of genius rather than in my zone of slight incompetence. Right,

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Speaker 2: I don't want to call the insurance company. I'm not

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Speaker 2: interested in putting people on the schedule. I'm not interested

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Speaker 2: in answering emails back and forth. I'm not interested in

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Speaker 2: figuring out what to post. And when I'm not interested, Look,

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Speaker 2: when I tell you that I'm hands off of my

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Speaker 2: social media right now, I mean I am hands off.

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Speaker 3: I'd be like, hey, where did you find that?

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Speaker 2: How did you know that? I would say that, ooh girl,

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Speaker 2: Apparently I have an entire cash of things that I've

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Speaker 2: said at one place to another, from podcasts to written

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Speaker 2: things all over the Internet that my assistant pulls from

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Speaker 2: and creates beautiful social media graphics from. I'm just like, so,

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Speaker 2: all I got to do is mind my businesses, stay

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Speaker 2: in my life, with it, with it. So for me,

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Speaker 2: part of it has been, yes, get the lawyer, get

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Speaker 2: the people that know how to do the thing, sometimes

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Speaker 2: finding the people who have already done it right. So

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Speaker 2: I mentioned before that I was part of the Private

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Speaker 2: Practice Academy which is now the Legacy Wellness Lounge by

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Speaker 2: doctor Jetta Robinson, and it taught me a lot of

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Speaker 2: what I needed to know right And I got to

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Speaker 2: ask her questions to make sure I was sticking.

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Speaker 3: In my lane and knowing when it.

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Speaker 2: Was time to hire somebody else, because that's also what

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Speaker 2: a good accountant will do. They will let you know

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Speaker 2: when you can actually afford to hire somebody else, what

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Speaker 2: you can pay them, and how many hours they can

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Speaker 2: actually work. That's also how I know another assistant is

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Speaker 2: about to be onboarded because the money is.

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Speaker 3: About to come through.

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Speaker 2: So it's about trying to not trying to figure out

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Speaker 2: everything on your own. I think that a lot of

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Speaker 2: us have been taught and brought up in, you know,

399
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Speaker 2: being a superwoman. Right, you still are in this space

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Speaker 2: of hyperindependence. You are still in this space of trying

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Speaker 2: to say all the things that you could do by yourself,

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Speaker 2: and no one is saying that you can't do. We're

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Speaker 2: saying that you don't have to. You don't have to,

404
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Speaker 2: so find a team work interdependently. Does that mean that

405
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Speaker 2: sometimes you're gonna have to let somebody go.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I have been there. I've had to let somebody go.

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Speaker 2: They didn't understand the value of the work that I

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Speaker 2: was doing and they were basically sabotage my business. On

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Speaker 2: the low, I'm looking like, yes, you will have to

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Speaker 2: let somebody go. Yes it's gonna hurt, but you know

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Speaker 2: what you feel, your feelings, you figure out where you

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Speaker 2: need to shure some things up in your policies, and

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Speaker 2: then you keep it moving. You don't stop there, right

414
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Speaker 2: what they say, You're not gonna stop driving your car

415
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Speaker 2: because you get one flat tire, and you're certainly not

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Speaker 2: gonna shoot out the rest of the tires just because

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Speaker 2: of one flat. You're gonna change the tire and figure

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Speaker 2: out what you need to do differently to make sure

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Speaker 2: that you continue to get to the destination that you

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Speaker 2: have charted for yourself. And that's all I'm asking people

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Speaker 2: to do. Stop trying to do everything by yourself.

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Speaker 4: I totally agree. Today somebody is cleaning my house, and

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Speaker 4: I think sometimes it can be hard to accept. You know,

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Speaker 4: you've gotten to a place, you have higher education, You

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Speaker 4: get money by the virtue of the work that you do,

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Speaker 4: and it means that you are brought into certain kinds

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Speaker 4: of privilege, like in a discriminative sense that you now

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Speaker 4: have access to And I know for me that sometimes

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Speaker 4: that feels bad. And when I start to notice that

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Speaker 4: emotional energy is going into figuring something out, that's the

431
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Speaker 4: mindfulness bill for me that like I probably do not

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Speaker 4: have the expertise like doctor Donna was saying, and so

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Speaker 4: I don't have to figure everything out. I mean, I

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Speaker 4: think I'm the only one here that is still in

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Speaker 4: group practice, and so I was just going to say

436
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Speaker 4: the things that keep me in group practice are the

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00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:44,600
Speaker 4: things that people have mentioned, like somebody to do the accounting,

438
00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:48,080
Speaker 4: an attorney, like the bill or the scheduler. But they're

439
00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:51,159
Speaker 4: all things that I am observing and paying attention to

440
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:53,760
Speaker 4: while I'm in group practice because these are the things

441
00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:56,880
Speaker 4: that I don't know about. And I think you were

442
00:22:56,920 --> 00:23:00,720
Speaker 4: also mentioned in Doctor Donna. It's important to say consultation

443
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:05,240
Speaker 4: with people who are building private practices, like they'll check you,

444
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:09,840
Speaker 4: just give you advice on things that you know, so

445
00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:12,399
Speaker 4: you don't have to blaze the trail as hard as

446
00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:15,240
Speaker 4: they did. And that's so important. One of the things

447
00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:17,480
Speaker 4: that I am in the process of setting up now

448
00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:21,600
Speaker 4: is a community advisory board to give me input about

449
00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:25,520
Speaker 4: what would be beneficial in terms of outreach to the community.

450
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:29,199
Speaker 4: And that's gonna be made up of community stakeholders like

451
00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:32,119
Speaker 4: other adults in different jobs, but also teenagers and use

452
00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:34,840
Speaker 4: the people I want to serve. And so that's going

453
00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:37,640
Speaker 4: to become an important part of my practice moving forward.

454
00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:39,679
Speaker 4: While I'm still in the group practice, but don't be

455
00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:42,359
Speaker 4: bound by the chains of group practice just because you

456
00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:46,800
Speaker 4: think you have to do these things yourself, because like

457
00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:49,480
Speaker 4: doctor Dandre and doctor Donna said, you don't have to

458
00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:50,960
Speaker 4: do them all.

459
00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:55,000
Speaker 6: Yeah, And I'm in the process of hiring very slowly.

460
00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:57,639
Speaker 6: I'm a little scared of building a team if I'm

461
00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:02,000
Speaker 6: going to be very honest, because as I am pretty

462
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:06,440
Speaker 6: new in the field myself, so I am finding that

463
00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:10,280
Speaker 6: I mean to hire folks who are not only experts

464
00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:14,639
Speaker 6: in what they do, but hire folks who can work

465
00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:19,040
Speaker 6: with me and work really well with me and my style.

466
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:22,600
Speaker 6: So I'll use Diva as an example. Diva is very

467
00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:27,200
Speaker 6: self sufficient and very independent in her work style. She'll

468
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:29,720
Speaker 6: text me and say, hey, I need this and this,

469
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:32,160
Speaker 6: and I'm able to go and check off everything that

470
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:34,040
Speaker 6: she needs and she's able to go and do it

471
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:35,919
Speaker 6: on her own, and then all of a sudden, my

472
00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:38,840
Speaker 6: social media looks pretty and then I'm like, thank you,

473
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:43,159
Speaker 6: I appreciate it. I found that I sometimes can be

474
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:46,080
Speaker 6: a little bit too hands on. So I think having

475
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:50,720
Speaker 6: someone who challenges me to let go and forces me

476
00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:54,919
Speaker 6: to trust them allows me to be able to see

477
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:58,159
Speaker 6: the benefit of their growth. Because I worked with a

478
00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:02,560
Speaker 6: VA before, I think I was just two hands on

479
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:06,720
Speaker 6: with and I was like, no, lie, y'all on a space.

480
00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:09,119
Speaker 6: I think I was micromanaging her a little bit because

481
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:12,879
Speaker 6: I was so nervous about how she was doing things,

482
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:15,760
Speaker 6: and I realized that I didn't trust myself at the

483
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:19,760
Speaker 6: time to let someone else do the work. So even

484
00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:23,080
Speaker 6: as I'm now like contemplating bringing on someone to answer

485
00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:25,760
Speaker 6: the emails and the phone calls and such, I know

486
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:29,359
Speaker 6: part of the growth process of being a boss is

487
00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:33,320
Speaker 6: being able to let it go and trust that others

488
00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:36,560
Speaker 6: are going to be able to do just as good

489
00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:39,240
Speaker 6: of a job as you, even if it looks different

490
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:43,880
Speaker 6: from you. And also one other thing is that the

491
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:49,280
Speaker 6: ideas that folks bring could be what you not necessarily

492
00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:53,880
Speaker 6: are expecting, but could very well be what your business needs.

493
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:55,720
Speaker 3: I did not.

494
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:59,480
Speaker 6: Really like social media, like I said earlier before, but

495
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:03,080
Speaker 6: I think once I got on a schedule, Diva has

496
00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 6: this amazing like spreadsheet where she like checks things off

497
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:08,600
Speaker 6: and I check things off, and it's just a It's

498
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:11,280
Speaker 6: a beautiful system. And I think when we were able

499
00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:14,720
Speaker 6: to really hone things in and hold things down, then

500
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:18,520
Speaker 6: it made it feel more doable. So I would name

501
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:21,159
Speaker 6: that like the person has to fit you and be

502
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:25,240
Speaker 6: able to be a good match, which is why interviews

503
00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:30,240
Speaker 6: are really important. References are really important. But I wouldn't

504
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:32,919
Speaker 6: just skip over that process just because you need someone

505
00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:35,439
Speaker 6: in the job. If you're getting someone, make sure that

506
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:36,840
Speaker 6: they're a good fit.

507
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:50,199
Speaker 1: More from our conversation after the break, bring up a

508
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:52,680
Speaker 1: really good point, Josephine, in terms of what's the saying

509
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:55,840
Speaker 1: like high or slow and fire fans. Right, So I

510
00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:58,160
Speaker 1: love that you are taking your time with hiring because

511
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:01,000
Speaker 1: it's a huge decision, right, like who were you especially

512
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:04,120
Speaker 1: some of those very early team members, Like you're bringing

513
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:07,000
Speaker 1: somebody in to really intimately help you build this thing,

514
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:09,840
Speaker 1: right that you have probably felt really close to. So

515
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 1: I don't think that is a bad thing at all.

516
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:14,560
Speaker 1: And doctor apple White, you mentioned like that this is

517
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:16,719
Speaker 1: why you are still a part of a group practice, right,

518
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:19,000
Speaker 1: because you don't want to deal with many of these

519
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:23,240
Speaker 1: other things, which is a totally like fair and valid decision, right.

520
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:25,560
Speaker 1: So I definitely don't want us to give the impression

521
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:27,960
Speaker 1: that like private practice is the thing, being the owner

522
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:30,560
Speaker 1: of a private practice is the thing for everybody, because

523
00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:32,680
Speaker 1: it definitely is not right So I wonder if we

524
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:34,560
Speaker 1: can talk a little bit about that, because I think

525
00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:38,040
Speaker 1: all of you were in other places. Before the three

526
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:40,159
Speaker 1: of you who are owned your own private practice, you

527
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:43,160
Speaker 1: were in other locations. So talk a little bit about

528
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:45,760
Speaker 1: like getting those positions, and like for people who maybe

529
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:47,479
Speaker 1: don't want to own a private practice, like what are

530
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:49,480
Speaker 1: some of the benefits of working in some of these

531
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:50,679
Speaker 1: other locations.

532
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:53,480
Speaker 4: I think, for me, why I stay connected to a

533
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:55,480
Speaker 4: group practice other than what I've already said I don't

534
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:58,000
Speaker 4: want to deal with the other stuff at this point

535
00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:02,359
Speaker 4: in time, is that I value being connected to other people.

536
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:05,120
Speaker 4: I think it's taken me a while to find a

537
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:09,440
Speaker 4: situation where I worked with people who cared about clients

538
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:11,199
Speaker 4: in similar ways as I did. It's kind of like

539
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:13,400
Speaker 4: what Josephine was talking about and having a good fit

540
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:16,120
Speaker 4: for the people that work for you, you also need

541
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:18,120
Speaker 4: a good fit of the people that work with you.

542
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:21,199
Speaker 4: And there are definitely settings that I've been in, especially

543
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:24,199
Speaker 4: because you know, I'm mostly a DBT therapist and so

544
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:28,520
Speaker 4: working with people with borderline personality disorder and complex traumas,

545
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:30,840
Speaker 4: and I think in so many other places it's easy

546
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:33,760
Speaker 4: to be cynical about working with these types of clients

547
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:36,919
Speaker 4: or like judge them too harshly. I mean it's in

548
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:40,480
Speaker 4: kind of the like the behavior pattern of the diagnosis

549
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:43,959
Speaker 4: that they split people, right, and so like teams that

550
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:46,959
Speaker 4: work with a lot of people with borderline personality disorder

551
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:49,520
Speaker 4: are often split where some people really love this client

552
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 4: and everybody else really like I mean, hates is a

553
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,320
Speaker 4: strong word, but it does feel that way sometimes on

554
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:59,280
Speaker 4: some teams. And I just didn't want to be around

555
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:04,080
Speaker 4: people that held up cynicism more often than that, and

556
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:06,760
Speaker 4: so it has taken me a while to find people

557
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:08,800
Speaker 4: who are like that. So the group practice that I'm

558
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:12,960
Speaker 4: in is woman owned, which has been good. I think

559
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:16,360
Speaker 4: Utah comes with its own cultural challenges, but I feel

560
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:21,080
Speaker 4: like people have commitment to openness, agreeableness, but not to

561
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 4: a fault. So all of these things kind of make

562
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:26,680
Speaker 4: it worth my while to continue being connected with people.

563
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:30,880
Speaker 4: I also, at the time felt like I wanted to

564
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:32,720
Speaker 4: build expertise, or.

565
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:35,960
Speaker 7: Maybe not even build expertise, but the perception of expertise,

566
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:40,360
Speaker 7: because let's be real, I feel like there are some

567
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:44,360
Speaker 7: preconceived notions about what it means to be a black

568
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 7: woman working, and so it's always been in my mind

569
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:48,959
Speaker 7: like I want the best, Like wherever I am, I

570
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:49,680
Speaker 7: want the best.

571
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:51,840
Speaker 4: I want to be with the best people. And so

572
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:56,440
Speaker 4: a lot of DBT, especially is like who you've worked with,

573
00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:59,640
Speaker 4: kind of similar to academia. Who are your mentors and

574
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:02,400
Speaker 4: how col to the people that like developed the whole thing,

575
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:05,120
Speaker 4: which yes is buying into power structures and is a

576
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 4: reality of the work I think. And so that's another

577
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 4: reason why I've stayed in group practice, because I'm trying

578
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:15,120
Speaker 4: to build proximity to those people while I'm building my

579
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 4: own name and the kinds of work that I want

580
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:18,360
Speaker 4: to do.

581
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:21,200
Speaker 5: One of the things that I did enjoy about functioning

582
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 5: in a group practice setting was definitely the ability to

583
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:29,920
Speaker 5: connect with colleagues, to engage in consultation, to bounce something

584
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:33,080
Speaker 5: off of somebody else as you're in between sessions, if

585
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:35,560
Speaker 5: there's something you were stuck on. But it was the

586
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 5: ease for me. It was the ease of just being

587
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 5: able to come into a furnished office with all the

588
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 5: office supplies that I needed, and somebody to send the

589
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:50,520
Speaker 5: facts and contact the insurance companies. All of those pieces

590
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:54,480
Speaker 5: were really beautiful and useful. And I think that when

591
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:57,880
Speaker 5: we're considering. At least what I gathered from being a

592
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:01,560
Speaker 5: part of a group practice was understanding the value of

593
00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 5: what is provided by that group practice owner. I think

594
00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:08,760
Speaker 5: a lot of times in clinician communities we hear, well,

595
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:11,480
Speaker 5: what's a the percentage that someone should take if you're

596
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 5: functioning in a group practice, and we sometimes will devalue

597
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:19,280
Speaker 5: all that is being offered to you, the staff, the

598
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:22,280
Speaker 5: support somebody else to answer the phone for you, or

599
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:25,440
Speaker 5: return an email, or communicate with somebody's PCP, or get

600
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:28,680
Speaker 5: that release of information from the client, or run that payment.

601
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:32,960
Speaker 5: That ease is beautiful and it's worthwhile. You just have

602
00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:36,680
Speaker 5: to determine when you are functioning in that kind of setting,

603
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:39,240
Speaker 5: is that what you need? And if you're finding yourself

604
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:42,400
Speaker 5: stuck or frustrated in that kind of setting, is it

605
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:44,680
Speaker 5: because you don't just want the autonomy of being able

606
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 5: to come in and see your clients and go. Are

607
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 5: you really wanting to be in the seat the person

608
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:54,400
Speaker 5: who makes the decisions, the change maker, the visionary? And

609
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 5: for me that was the challenge. I wanted to be

610
00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:59,240
Speaker 5: the visionary and I wanted to walk out my own

611
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:01,760
Speaker 5: vision as a closed to continuing to operate in the

612
00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 5: practice space.

613
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:05,640
Speaker 4: I do think that's so valuable. I've just been over here,

614
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 4: like formulating a metaphor, because everything has pros and cons.

615
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:14,120
Speaker 4: So we lived in an apartment for years, like probably

616
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:16,880
Speaker 4: for eight years of our married life we lived in

617
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:19,640
Speaker 4: an apartment, and then in the pandemic, we moved over

618
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:23,719
Speaker 4: to this house. And I can vividly remember, like in

619
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:27,800
Speaker 4: the summertime, seeing overgrown weeds and stuff coming out of

620
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:29,000
Speaker 4: the sidewalks and I was.

621
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:31,960
Speaker 3: Like, who manages this? And I'm like, oh wait, it's me.

622
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:34,440
Speaker 4: And I like there were so many times in that

623
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:36,640
Speaker 4: first year I'm like, oh my gosh, where is the

624
00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:39,880
Speaker 4: leasing office? Like I don't want to I see my sidewalk,

625
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 4: and I think that at the end of the day,

626
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:45,440
Speaker 4: it's like I have my own space, Like I have

627
00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:47,840
Speaker 4: the ability to create what I want. And that, to me,

628
00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:51,800
Speaker 4: I think is like the comparison to group passes versus

629
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:55,000
Speaker 4: private practice, Like there's sometimes where you really want the

630
00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:58,560
Speaker 4: leasing office. I have two young children, Like there's something

631
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 4: that is probably more of a priority than I would

632
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 4: like it to be. And Yeah, that mindfulness that doctor

633
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:07,640
Speaker 4: Deander talked about, just being aware of what is leading

634
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:10,880
Speaker 4: to the consternation. I think is so important because, like

635
00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:12,960
Speaker 4: I said, everything has pros and cons.

636
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:15,520
Speaker 6: I want to dismantle the notion that you have to

637
00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:19,400
Speaker 6: pick one or the other of picking private practice or

638
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 6: working in an agency, because right now I'm doing both.

639
00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:27,960
Speaker 6: I'm working for a local, low cost agency primarily serving

640
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:30,520
Speaker 6: the folks of color and the agency doing trauma therapy,

641
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:34,880
Speaker 6: specifically in couples of family therapy, mostly along with having

642
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:37,800
Speaker 6: my own private practice. So I find that I kind

643
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:39,640
Speaker 6: of get the best of both worlds. Of course, I'm

644
00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:43,080
Speaker 6: managing my own thing, I'm paying my own liability insurance,

645
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:45,600
Speaker 6: all the things, I'm doing all that on my own,

646
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:48,800
Speaker 6: but I still have a community, and I still have

647
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:52,120
Speaker 6: a place to be able to go and learn from

648
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:56,640
Speaker 6: the cases that I have there and fun factor appoint

649
00:33:56,680 --> 00:34:02,239
Speaker 6: doctor Jackson. I'm pretty newly licensed, So I find that

650
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:06,600
Speaker 6: being able to have that balance between the two helps

651
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:09,879
Speaker 6: me be able to practice that sense of independence and

652
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:13,880
Speaker 6: confidence in my clinical decisions while still being able to

653
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:18,800
Speaker 6: have a spot to ask those questions as needed. And

654
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:22,400
Speaker 6: I mean, luckily, scheduling wise, it works out to have both.

655
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:27,920
Speaker 6: So I think, if it's possible, it's worth considering doing both.

656
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:30,280
Speaker 2: At the same time, I love everything that y'all brought

657
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:34,120
Speaker 2: up and just come left with.

658
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:36,919
Speaker 3: Me real quick. Okay, don't come for me too hot.

659
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:39,360
Speaker 2: But I think that we are in a pay me

660
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:42,640
Speaker 2: what I'm worth era where people don't want to do

661
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:45,840
Speaker 2: any work to earn what they're worth. Number one, No

662
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:47,920
Speaker 2: one can never pay your worth. You are a priceless

663
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:50,800
Speaker 2: human being, so your worth will never be paid.

664
00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:51,040
Speaker 4: Right.

665
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:54,040
Speaker 2: You can be paid what you're asking for what you desire,

666
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:57,359
Speaker 2: but your worth as a human being far surpasses any

667
00:34:57,360 --> 00:34:58,600
Speaker 2: dollar amount that anybody.

668
00:34:58,320 --> 00:34:59,759
Speaker 3: Will ever be able to give you one.

669
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:02,600
Speaker 2: Number two, I find that people want to be in

670
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:05,160
Speaker 2: a boss era, but don't want to do boss stuff.

671
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:08,200
Speaker 3: You didn't boss up right.

672
00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:10,799
Speaker 2: You want all the benefits of being the boss, but

673
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:12,959
Speaker 2: you don't want to have done the learning. You don't

674
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:15,120
Speaker 2: want to have to do the billing. You don't want

675
00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:17,200
Speaker 2: to have to do the email sending, the calling of

676
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:19,279
Speaker 2: the insurance. You don't want to have to figure out

677
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:21,319
Speaker 2: the credentialing. You don't want to have to figure out

678
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:23,560
Speaker 2: any of the stuff. You don't even want to figure

679
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:28,400
Speaker 2: out who you got to hire. But you want the

680
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:30,839
Speaker 2: money that the boss is getting, but you don't want

681
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:34,200
Speaker 2: the hours that the boss is putting in, because let's

682
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:36,320
Speaker 2: be real, I never worked for a group practice, so

683
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:39,120
Speaker 2: I won't even begin to pretend to claim that I

684
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:42,360
Speaker 2: work for a few agencies before I went into private practice.

685
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:45,680
Speaker 2: And one thing that I loved was I go in

686
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:47,759
Speaker 2: at this time, I come out at this time, and

687
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:52,400
Speaker 2: you know what I'm doing after nothing, nothing, but I

688
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 2: own this business, which means that this baby is my

689
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:58,680
Speaker 2: baby twenty four seven. It means that while I do

690
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:01,040
Speaker 2: get breaks, and I'm not saying that I don't, I'm

691
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:03,000
Speaker 2: saying that my baby is always on my mind. Because

692
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:07,240
Speaker 2: you're always a parent, somebody gonna need something at some point,

693
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:08,840
Speaker 2: usually while you're on vacation.

694
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:11,800
Speaker 3: Guess who has to answer you do it.

695
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:15,600
Speaker 2: So let's be real, It's okay to not want to

696
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:18,680
Speaker 2: be the boss. It's okay to want to work for

697
00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:21,520
Speaker 2: someone else and to just find the right place that

698
00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:24,319
Speaker 2: allows you to live the life of flexibility that you're

699
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:27,280
Speaker 2: probably looking for at a pay that makes you smile

700
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:29,640
Speaker 2: just a little bit, right. And I feel like that's

701
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:31,879
Speaker 2: something that I've been offering to the therapist that work

702
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:34,640
Speaker 2: for me and even my assistant. I'm like, I need

703
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:36,520
Speaker 2: you to create your own schedule because I'm not gonna

704
00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:39,880
Speaker 2: do it. I need you to know that between Christmas

705
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:43,640
Speaker 2: Eve and New Year, we're closed. If you decide to

706
00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:46,040
Speaker 2: see a client, that's your business, that's not my business.

707
00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:48,919
Speaker 2: But there will be no support because we are off.

708
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:52,040
Speaker 2: We are closed, The assistant is off. Everybody's off. But

709
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:56,160
Speaker 2: you chose to work, that's you'll business, right. But I

710
00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:59,480
Speaker 2: think that sometimes we're not being honest with ourselves. I

711
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:02,799
Speaker 2: think there's a culture around boss hood, but there's not

712
00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:07,400
Speaker 2: a culture of learning bosshood and quiet as it's kept and.

713
00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:08,880
Speaker 3: Not somebody's gonna be mad.

714
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:12,439
Speaker 2: Beyonce doesn't cosplay some stuff for y'all that got y'all

715
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:15,200
Speaker 2: all in your feelings a little bit. First she was

716
00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:17,359
Speaker 2: a boss and now she is a worker, and y'all

717
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:19,720
Speaker 2: are trying to follow Beyonce, and I need y'all to stop,

718
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:22,960
Speaker 2: find your own center, figure out what it is that

719
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:25,880
Speaker 2: you're trying to do, and what it is that you're

720
00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:28,719
Speaker 2: trying to build, and stop trying to be what you.

721
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:30,880
Speaker 3: Believe that you're supposed to be.

722
00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:33,319
Speaker 2: Because somebody told you that there is a lack of

723
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:36,000
Speaker 2: value in you as a person if you have a

724
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:37,000
Speaker 2: job rather than.

725
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:39,719
Speaker 3: Own a job. I mean the true theater to be said.

726
00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:43,920
Speaker 1: Wait, you know, oh you know, I love you, but

727
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:46,719
Speaker 1: we will nill out any queenslander. But your point is

728
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 1: well taken. Your point is well taken.

729
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:55,080
Speaker 4: I did it's gonna say, I don't. Anyway, I was

730
00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:59,399
Speaker 4: gonna say something doctor Donna said, kind of like right

731
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:01,520
Speaker 4: back to the lift. I did forget that one of

732
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:04,239
Speaker 4: the reasons why I like working for agencies right now,

733
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:07,480
Speaker 4: especially as a psychologist, is that they have put in

734
00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:11,799
Speaker 4: the work to facilitate training programs, and that's something that's

735
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:14,719
Speaker 4: valuable to me, being able to work at places that

736
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:19,240
Speaker 4: have accreditation to handle trainees. But then I think also

737
00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:21,880
Speaker 4: what doctor Donna was saying is that it's not impossible

738
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 4: to do that in private practice either, because it seems

739
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:27,600
Speaker 4: like you guys have cultivated a situation where you're hiring

740
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:31,360
Speaker 4: people you can still keep that mentorship train alive. It

741
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:34,640
Speaker 4: just takes work, and so I just wanted to pull that.

742
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:36,880
Speaker 4: I don't know how I caught that from everything that

743
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:39,480
Speaker 4: you said, but I did pick up on the mentorship

744
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:42,560
Speaker 4: piece and just wanted to highlight that because I think

745
00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:45,759
Speaker 4: that that is important, at least it's important to me

746
00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:47,560
Speaker 4: as a black woman to be able to feel like

747
00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:50,600
Speaker 4: I'm giving back to the pipeline of psychology. And it

748
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:53,520
Speaker 4: doesn't have to be every black woman's value to give back.

749
00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:55,839
Speaker 4: But I think why I appreciate what you were saying

750
00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:57,880
Speaker 4: is that you can still give back and have boundaries

751
00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:00,319
Speaker 4: and values and figure out how you want that can

752
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:01,759
Speaker 4: figure that in your life.

753
00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:02,240
Speaker 3: And your career.

754
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:18,520
Speaker 1: More from our conversation after the break, before Therapy for

755
00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:20,520
Speaker 1: Black Girls was my full time thing, like, I was

756
00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:24,040
Speaker 1: the director of a counsing center, and before any of

757
00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:27,680
Speaker 1: this was even a dream, I saw myself like retiring

758
00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:30,800
Speaker 1: from a cousing center. Like I love college student mental health,

759
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:32,600
Speaker 1: so I definitely want to put a plug in there

760
00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:35,080
Speaker 1: for people because I think sometimes there's this idea of

761
00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:37,759
Speaker 1: like not wanting to work in agencies, right, but I

762
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:41,040
Speaker 1: loved I've worked in like probably four or five different

763
00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:43,719
Speaker 1: college student mental health centers and loved my time in

764
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:45,719
Speaker 1: each of them, and I think that is probably some

765
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:48,759
Speaker 1: of the best training experiences that I've ever had. So

766
00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:52,080
Speaker 1: for anybody who's looking for additional agency opportunities college student

767
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:54,600
Speaker 1: mental health. It's also great because there's like a timing

768
00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:56,440
Speaker 1: to the year, right, like you have busy fall and

769
00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:59,080
Speaker 1: spring semesters, then not a lot of students in the summer,

770
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:01,319
Speaker 1: and so that's a great thing to think about. So

771
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:05,160
Speaker 1: I also want to hear you all talk about how

772
00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:08,640
Speaker 1: have you figured out your pacing as a therapist?

773
00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:08,879
Speaker 6: Right?

774
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:11,120
Speaker 1: So, I think that there are lots of conversations For

775
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:14,040
Speaker 1: some people who come from agencies, there is this idea

776
00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:16,239
Speaker 1: of like other people building your caseloads. So you might

777
00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:18,919
Speaker 1: have to see ten clients in a day because that's

778
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:20,799
Speaker 1: what the job tells you that you have to do.

779
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:23,759
Speaker 1: How have you figured out, like how to manage your caseloads?

780
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:25,799
Speaker 1: So how many people do you see during a day?

781
00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:27,880
Speaker 1: What have you figured out in terms of like a

782
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:29,920
Speaker 1: rhythm for you to still do the kind of clinical

783
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:30,799
Speaker 1: work that you want to do.

784
00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:36,560
Speaker 6: I started off in my private practice in a survival mentality.

785
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:39,439
Speaker 6: My personal story is I was working at a group

786
00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:42,480
Speaker 6: practice and then I realized that I wanted to start

787
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:46,440
Speaker 6: my own business. And because like you, doctor White, I'm

788
00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:49,920
Speaker 6: in Colorado, there are very few black therapists around. I

789
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:52,640
Speaker 6: was fortunate enough to take my clients with me into

790
00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:56,560
Speaker 6: my private practice, and I thought that I needed to

791
00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:00,399
Speaker 6: be able to like just work as much much as

792
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:03,040
Speaker 6: possible to be able to make sure I was making

793
00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:05,680
Speaker 6: ends meet, and if I could go back, I would

794
00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:08,760
Speaker 6: not do that again. I think I was so worried

795
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:11,120
Speaker 6: in the beginning of like what if I don't make enough?

796
00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:14,319
Speaker 6: What if I can't sustain this? And I think that

797
00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:20,160
Speaker 6: survival deficit mindset burned me out because fun fact I

798
00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:22,760
Speaker 6: started my private practice as I was planning my wedding

799
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:26,520
Speaker 6: at the same time was actually disgusting. And I was

800
00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:31,080
Speaker 6: literally doing like eight to ten sessions a day and

801
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:33,959
Speaker 6: then planning my wedding in the evening from like eight

802
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:36,759
Speaker 6: to one of them. It was absolutely horrible. I do

803
00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:40,960
Speaker 6: not recommend anybody do that. So now I see between

804
00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:45,560
Speaker 6: five and eight on a really long day, but between

805
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:47,879
Speaker 6: like five and eight in a day, and it gives

806
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:49,719
Speaker 6: me time to do things like this, which I don't

807
00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:52,360
Speaker 6: think I would have been able to have time for before.

808
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:55,760
Speaker 6: It gives me time to consult I'm now an adjunct

809
00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:58,000
Speaker 6: professor at the University of Denver, like it gives me

810
00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:00,959
Speaker 6: time to be able to do other things while still

811
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:03,879
Speaker 6: seeing the clients that I want to see. I think

812
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:06,560
Speaker 6: my pacing also has to do with being able to

813
00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:10,879
Speaker 6: say no, not every client. I know Doctor Donna said

814
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:13,640
Speaker 6: this in the last episode, and it like drilled into

815
00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:18,439
Speaker 6: my brain. Not every client is a good client for you.

816
00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:23,319
Speaker 6: So if you have to pass along the referral to

817
00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:26,680
Speaker 6: somebody else who's a better fit, it will come back,

818
00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:30,200
Speaker 6: like it will come back and you will have that

819
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:32,879
Speaker 6: person who is a good fit I was gonna say

820
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:35,919
Speaker 6: to doctor Data. I think that also helped me set

821
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:39,720
Speaker 6: my pacing because now more than ever in my past,

822
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:41,279
Speaker 6: I've said no.

823
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:42,720
Speaker 3: A lot more.

824
00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:45,719
Speaker 6: I was supposed to teach through the summer, I said no.

825
00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:49,320
Speaker 6: I was supposed to see four extra people. I was

826
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:51,680
Speaker 6: like no, And I think it's allowing me to make

827
00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:55,600
Speaker 6: sure that I'm doing the best work I can because

828
00:42:55,600 --> 00:42:58,480
Speaker 6: I actually am present and awake for.

829
00:42:58,520 --> 00:43:03,560
Speaker 3: All of it. My answer is math and science go

830
00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:04,000
Speaker 3: with me.

831
00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:07,320
Speaker 2: So Number one, I did the math. How much money

832
00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:10,200
Speaker 2: do I need to pay my bills? But then how

833
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:13,680
Speaker 2: much money do I want to live a life that

834
00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:17,040
Speaker 2: does it have me in a constant state of word

835
00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:18,280
Speaker 2: like what's my magic number?

836
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:20,560
Speaker 3: And then I work backwards, right, if.

837
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:22,680
Speaker 2: You want to make one hundred thousand dollars.

838
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:23,400
Speaker 3: You do your math.

839
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:25,319
Speaker 2: How many weeks out of the year do you want

840
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:27,680
Speaker 2: to work? Like, how much time off are you going

841
00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:31,320
Speaker 2: to take? You subtract that you divide the magic number

842
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:33,680
Speaker 2: by the number of weeks you actually intend to work.

843
00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:36,080
Speaker 2: How many days now do you intend to work? You

844
00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:39,439
Speaker 2: divide again. How many clients would you prefer to see?

845
00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:41,719
Speaker 2: You divide again. It will tell you how much you

846
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:44,319
Speaker 2: need to charge in order to live the life that

847
00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:46,920
Speaker 2: you are trying to live. So the math told me

848
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:49,239
Speaker 2: that I needed to see but somewhere between fifteen and

849
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:52,160
Speaker 2: twenty clients a week in order to meet my magic number.

850
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:55,439
Speaker 2: And then my prices increased, which means that I didn't

851
00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:57,360
Speaker 2: need to see that many people. But I kept it

852
00:43:57,440 --> 00:43:58,960
Speaker 2: because I was just like, well, I want a little

853
00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:00,920
Speaker 2: extra money because you know, a girl trying and go

854
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:02,360
Speaker 2: on a beach somewhere and she want to buy a

855
00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:07,480
Speaker 2: new babas cool. But what eventually went from four to

856
00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:10,800
Speaker 2: five days a week of working turn to three days steady,

857
00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:15,200
Speaker 2: turn to two days steady. I'm on one and on

858
00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:18,799
Speaker 2: that one I see up to eight clients in that

859
00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:21,319
Speaker 2: one day. I've also had to take a step back

860
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:23,160
Speaker 2: and look at the things that I'm actually doing right.

861
00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:26,960
Speaker 2: I'm writing a book, i am teaching, I am creating

862
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:30,560
Speaker 2: a training program for a large organization. I'm looking at

863
00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:32,800
Speaker 2: these things that I am doing that are also bringing

864
00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:36,920
Speaker 2: in money, and I'm just like, well, at what point

865
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:39,200
Speaker 2: do you say I'm gonna let go of doing so

866
00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:40,759
Speaker 2: much of this so I could do more of this?

867
00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:43,880
Speaker 2: And I think that sometimes we be in that wholesol

868
00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:46,680
Speaker 2: ground culture so much that we don't stop and look

869
00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:49,480
Speaker 2: around to see did you get to the place that

870
00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:51,799
Speaker 2: you said that you wanted to go and it's the

871
00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:55,040
Speaker 2: destination the same? Did anything change? Do you want to

872
00:44:55,080 --> 00:44:57,160
Speaker 2: take the scenic group now? Do you want to make

873
00:44:57,160 --> 00:44:59,000
Speaker 2: a pit stop? Do you want to pause for a

874
00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:02,120
Speaker 2: little bit? That sometimes we forget about those things and

875
00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:04,239
Speaker 2: we get so into the hustle and grind to do

876
00:45:04,640 --> 00:45:08,360
Speaker 2: that we don't stop and allow space for pivot, for change,

877
00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:09,160
Speaker 2: for evolution.

878
00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:12,960
Speaker 5: I love everything that Josephine and doctor Donna said because

879
00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:16,279
Speaker 5: I can relate to what Josephine said in terms of

880
00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:18,640
Speaker 5: just like, let me hoard, let me gather all the

881
00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:20,480
Speaker 5: clients so that I can make the money and reach

882
00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:22,399
Speaker 5: the goals. And I love what doctor Donna was saying

883
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:25,719
Speaker 5: in terms of aligning my life with my values and

884
00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:28,040
Speaker 5: what's important to me and being on the sand, dipping

885
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:31,120
Speaker 5: my feet and the water and having time to align

886
00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:35,000
Speaker 5: my life of what is important and allowing myself to evolve.

887
00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:37,000
Speaker 5: But I think the thing that we don't talk about

888
00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:40,480
Speaker 5: enough because we jump into this hushle and grind culture

889
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:44,200
Speaker 5: is that y'all need to establish a solid business plan.

890
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:46,919
Speaker 5: That's where the math is going to be mathing, That's

891
00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:49,279
Speaker 5: where the vision is going to be clear. That's where

892
00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:52,760
Speaker 5: the plan for pivots and for alternative streams of income

893
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:56,400
Speaker 5: and cash flow analysis and understanding of what your break

894
00:45:56,440 --> 00:45:57,640
Speaker 5: even costs are going to be.

895
00:45:58,040 --> 00:45:59,400
Speaker 3: That's where all that happens.

896
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:01,120
Speaker 5: You don't have to figure this out on the fly,

897
00:46:01,680 --> 00:46:03,239
Speaker 5: and if you don't know how to do it, there's

898
00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:06,440
Speaker 5: someone out there who does. There are small business associations

899
00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:09,680
Speaker 5: who can guide you through these processes that allow you

900
00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:14,160
Speaker 5: the opportunity to make educated determinations about how you're going

901
00:46:14,239 --> 00:46:18,960
Speaker 5: to go about establishing your practice, finding your flow, identifying

902
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:22,560
Speaker 5: what your stamina is and ultimately that's what's going to

903
00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:24,920
Speaker 5: carry you and keep you grounded. So that's not a

904
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:27,120
Speaker 5: moment where it's like I feel so exhausted. So I'm

905
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:30,200
Speaker 5: moving from eight clients to four and now you're math

906
00:46:30,239 --> 00:46:32,680
Speaker 5: and mathing for your bills or for your overhead, or

907
00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:35,919
Speaker 5: to pay your contractors or to pay your employees. You've

908
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:39,319
Speaker 5: got to be knowledgeable about how your business runs. And

909
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:40,960
Speaker 5: the only way you're going to be able to do

910
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:44,680
Speaker 5: that is to have a solid, comprehensive business line.

911
00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:48,799
Speaker 4: Yeah. Now, I'm really just appreciated this conversation today, such

912
00:46:48,840 --> 00:46:52,279
Speaker 4: wisdom and all this. I was just gonna say that

913
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:56,160
Speaker 4: your values orientation is important for me, and also important

914
00:46:56,239 --> 00:46:59,600
Speaker 4: not to get too caught up in any one story

915
00:46:59,640 --> 00:47:01,719
Speaker 4: of who who you are and what you can do,

916
00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:05,920
Speaker 4: because that can make some stuck points in those pivots.

917
00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:06,279
Speaker 3: I think.

918
00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:09,880
Speaker 4: So I trained to be a child psychologist, and so

919
00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:12,799
Speaker 4: all this time I came to Utah, I worked in

920
00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:15,120
Speaker 4: college counseling, and I was like, but wait, I'm a

921
00:47:15,239 --> 00:47:19,720
Speaker 4: child psychologist. But I too loved college counseling. But sometimes

922
00:47:19,719 --> 00:47:24,040
Speaker 4: it doesn't even stick in my conceptualization of my identity

923
00:47:24,040 --> 00:47:26,560
Speaker 4: because I'm a child psychologist, right, But really who I

924
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:30,600
Speaker 4: am is somebody who wants to provide holistic care, and

925
00:47:30,680 --> 00:47:32,600
Speaker 4: that's what you're doing in a college. And so it

926
00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:36,200
Speaker 4: worked for me. But then now as a child psychologist

927
00:47:36,560 --> 00:47:41,560
Speaker 4: with children. My after school time is precious, and so

928
00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:45,320
Speaker 4: I don't want to build a practice of only seeing

929
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:50,200
Speaker 4: kids an outpatient from three to eight o'clock at night.

930
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:53,000
Speaker 4: It's just not how I want my life to be

931
00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:56,040
Speaker 4: at this point. And I can feel guilty about that

932
00:47:56,080 --> 00:47:58,719
Speaker 4: because I'm a child psychologist, or I can figure out

933
00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:01,239
Speaker 4: what are the things that really describe me from a

934
00:48:01,320 --> 00:48:05,000
Speaker 4: value standpoint and how can I move to that? So

935
00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:09,319
Speaker 4: I don't like seeing more than five clients in the day.

936
00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:13,000
Speaker 4: When I worked in impatient, we had a case load

937
00:48:13,040 --> 00:48:15,839
Speaker 4: of seven or eight, but you didn't have to see

938
00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:18,239
Speaker 4: all of them every day, So I didn't see more

939
00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:21,000
Speaker 4: than five or six clients a day. I find, especially

940
00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:24,240
Speaker 4: doing more DBT work than I used to, it's harder

941
00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:27,680
Speaker 4: to see more than six because of all of the

942
00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:31,319
Speaker 4: patient planning that you're having to do, especially like with

943
00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:33,319
Speaker 4: my clients, you're thinking about them all the time. They

944
00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:36,920
Speaker 4: might be texting you, like there might be some crises

945
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:40,759
Speaker 4: to manage. And so I've really learned to just not

946
00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:44,520
Speaker 4: tie myself too strongly to any kind of narrative of

947
00:48:44,560 --> 00:48:47,759
Speaker 4: what I'm supposed to be, and that has provided the

948
00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:51,920
Speaker 4: balance that I've needed. I don't want to see clients

949
00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:54,760
Speaker 4: before ten o'clock because I'm not going to get there

950
00:48:54,760 --> 00:48:58,480
Speaker 4: on time, like I've got ADHD, I have to get

951
00:48:58,480 --> 00:49:00,960
Speaker 4: my kid off to school. We're gonna make it so

952
00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:03,799
Speaker 4: it scheduled people past ten. And then I found that

953
00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:05,960
Speaker 4: there were different things that I was willing to do

954
00:49:06,520 --> 00:49:09,479
Speaker 4: in telehealth when we were working during the pandemic, then

955
00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:12,680
Speaker 4: when I was working in person, and then hybrid has

956
00:49:12,719 --> 00:49:17,319
Speaker 4: been like a disaster of like values articulation because there's

957
00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:19,360
Speaker 4: so many options and you really kind of have to

958
00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:22,640
Speaker 4: know what works well for you. And so yeah, not

959
00:49:22,680 --> 00:49:25,560
Speaker 4: getting stuck into any one narrative of who I'm supposed

960
00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:26,719
Speaker 4: to be has helped me.

961
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:29,160
Speaker 1: I love that. Thank y'all so much for sharing all

962
00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:31,399
Speaker 1: that information. I think that is such a beautiful gift

963
00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:35,080
Speaker 1: to offer the community. Just the idea of building your

964
00:49:35,120 --> 00:49:37,239
Speaker 1: career around the life that you actually want to have,

965
00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:40,040
Speaker 1: right like, not the other way around, and really kind

966
00:49:40,080 --> 00:49:42,719
Speaker 1: of figuring out how to do this professional thing in

967
00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:45,080
Speaker 1: addition to life and not really having it be the

968
00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:48,279
Speaker 1: thing that's driving all of our decisions. So we do

969
00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:50,920
Speaker 1: need to wrap up, because we could continue to go

970
00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:54,040
Speaker 1: on because y'all have been such incredible guests, so let's

971
00:49:54,120 --> 00:49:56,400
Speaker 1: just go around and remind everyone where we can find you.

972
00:49:56,440 --> 00:49:58,839
Speaker 1: We'll start with you, Josephine, with your website as well

973
00:49:58,840 --> 00:50:00,000
Speaker 1: as your social media handle.

974
00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:00,400
Speaker 4: Hi.

975
00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:06,000
Speaker 6: Everyone. You can find me at vmpupc A MPa WPC.

976
00:50:06,560 --> 00:50:10,000
Speaker 6: That's my website name, that's my social media. I'm on Instagram,

977
00:50:10,040 --> 00:50:12,319
Speaker 6: I'm on LinkedIn. I got a whole lot of love

978
00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:15,920
Speaker 6: after my last episode, especially for folks who are pre licensed,

979
00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:17,960
Speaker 6: so with super encouraging so richet.

980
00:50:18,400 --> 00:50:22,440
Speaker 5: You can find me at Epiphany Psychotherapy dot com and

981
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:25,880
Speaker 5: you can find me on Instagram at doctor Period d

982
00:50:26,280 --> 00:50:28,800
Speaker 5: Jazzing on Instagram.

983
00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:30,160
Speaker 1: What about you, doctor Alpoyd.

984
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:32,719
Speaker 4: You can find me at my group practice website uc

985
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:38,719
Speaker 4: ebt dot com or on social media at applesid on

986
00:50:38,719 --> 00:50:39,560
Speaker 4: on social.

987
00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:44,400
Speaker 2: And you can find me at doctor Period Dona Orioo

988
00:50:44,640 --> 00:50:48,600
Speaker 2: on Instagram, on TikTok, I think I might even be

989
00:50:48,680 --> 00:50:51,480
Speaker 2: on Facebook. You can also join the free Fabulist Infucked

990
00:50:51,480 --> 00:50:55,640
Speaker 2: community on Facebook well there for a limited time. And

991
00:50:55,680 --> 00:50:57,520
Speaker 2: if you're in the DMV, we're doing the Plan to

992
00:50:57,719 --> 00:51:02,400
Speaker 2: Orgasm masterclass come up in June, so I'm super excited

993
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:04,759
Speaker 2: about that. Although we also have the retreat coming up

994
00:51:04,760 --> 00:51:06,320
Speaker 2: in October, we go on to Mexico.

995
00:51:06,680 --> 00:51:09,080
Speaker 1: I love that, Doctor Jackson. Can we get you to

996
00:51:09,120 --> 00:51:11,720
Speaker 1: repeat your website and your social media handles please?

997
00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:15,960
Speaker 5: You can find me at Epiphanypsychotherapy dot com and on

998
00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:18,759
Speaker 5: Instagram at doctor period D.

999
00:51:19,080 --> 00:51:19,560
Speaker 3: Jackson.

1000
00:51:19,880 --> 00:51:22,080
Speaker 1: Well, thank you all for joining me again this week

1001
00:51:22,080 --> 00:51:24,480
Speaker 1: and sharing more of your time. I really appreciate you

1002
00:51:24,520 --> 00:51:26,680
Speaker 1: in the service that you are offering to our community

1003
00:51:26,719 --> 00:51:32,560
Speaker 1: and sharing your wisdom. I appreciate it. I'm so glad

1004
00:51:32,560 --> 00:51:36,359
Speaker 1: Doctor Apple White, doctor Jackson, doctor Orioo, and Josephine were

1005
00:51:36,400 --> 00:51:39,399
Speaker 1: able to join me for this conversation. To learn more

1006
00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:41,920
Speaker 1: about them and their work, visit the show notes at

1007
00:51:41,960 --> 00:51:45,520
Speaker 1: Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash Session three twelve and

1008
00:51:45,600 --> 00:51:47,760
Speaker 1: be sure to text two of your girls right now

1009
00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:49,960
Speaker 1: and tell them to check out the episode as well.

1010
00:51:51,239 --> 00:51:53,680
Speaker 1: If you're looking for a therapist in your area, check

1011
00:51:53,680 --> 00:51:56,719
Speaker 1: out our therapist directory at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com

1012
00:51:56,760 --> 00:51:59,879
Speaker 1: slash directory. And if you want to continue digging into

1013
00:51:59,920 --> 00:52:02,680
Speaker 1: this topic or just be in community with other sisters,

1014
00:52:03,120 --> 00:52:05,200
Speaker 1: come on over and join us in the Sister Circle.

1015
00:52:05,600 --> 00:52:08,000
Speaker 1: It's our cozy corner of the Internet designed just for

1016
00:52:08,040 --> 00:52:11,120
Speaker 1: black women. You can join US at Community dot Therapy

1017
00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:15,440
Speaker 1: for Blackgirls dot Com. This episode was produced by FRIEDA.

1018
00:52:15,520 --> 00:52:18,239
Speaker 1: Lucas and the Lease Ellis, and editing was done by

1019
00:52:18,239 --> 00:52:21,799
Speaker 1: Dennison Bradford. Thank y'all so much for joining me again

1020
00:52:21,840 --> 00:52:24,960
Speaker 1: this week. I look forward to continuing this conversation with

1021
00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:27,759
Speaker 1: you all real soon. Take good care.

1022
00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:32,000
Speaker 3: What's