1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,240 Speaker 1: It's time to get inside the Giants. 2 00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:03,320 Speaker 2: Let's go, Let's go. 3 00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:06,600 Speaker 1: Let's go Giants, dont get get out on the Giants mobile. 4 00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:07,720 Speaker 2: Give me some joke. 5 00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:09,680 Speaker 1: Part of the Giants Podcast Network. 6 00:00:09,760 --> 00:00:10,200 Speaker 3: Let's role. 7 00:00:10,280 --> 00:00:12,520 Speaker 2: Welcome to anothers of the Giants Little Podcast, brought to 8 00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:15,320 Speaker 2: you by Citizens, the official bank of the Giants. Today's 9 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:18,040 Speaker 2: guest of the Giants Little Podcast. You welcome in Michael Silver, 10 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:20,279 Speaker 2: who is one of the great football writers, covers the 11 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:22,759 Speaker 2: NFL for The Athletic. How many years, Mike have you 12 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:23,759 Speaker 2: covered the NFL? Now? 13 00:00:24,600 --> 00:00:26,840 Speaker 4: Wow? I think one hundred. 14 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:31,000 Speaker 3: I started covering the forty nine ers in nineteen eighty 15 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:37,680 Speaker 3: nine for the now defunct Sacramento Union. But actually before that, 16 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:41,440 Speaker 3: in eighty eight, I was out. I'd been an intern 17 00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:45,199 Speaker 3: at Newsday in the summer after I got out of 18 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 3: college at cal Stick stuck around in the fall doing 19 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:54,560 Speaker 3: preps for Newsday, which was awesome, and I picked up 20 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:58,360 Speaker 3: a stringing assignment for the San Francisco Chronicle. So I 21 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:01,760 Speaker 3: actually went to that game in eighty eight at the 22 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:07,000 Speaker 3: Meadowlands when Montana and Young were still being juggled around 23 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:10,919 Speaker 3: by Walsh and what would be his last year, Steve 24 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:14,800 Speaker 3: Young played the first half. Montana played the second half. 25 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 3: Phil Simms led the Giants down to what looked like 26 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 3: a game winning touchdown very late, and Montana threw this 27 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:26,400 Speaker 3: beautiful ball to the right sideline. Two Giant defensive backs 28 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:30,000 Speaker 3: collided as Jerry Rice made the catch and what seventy 29 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:33,920 Speaker 3: eight yards for a gameboarding touchdown, which added to the 30 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:37,760 Speaker 3: legend of Montana. So yeah, I've been really really lucky 31 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 3: to that was at the old Stadium. Been to a 32 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:44,200 Speaker 3: lot of cool games since, including in your neck of 33 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:44,720 Speaker 3: the woods. 34 00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:47,319 Speaker 2: So when you were a news day was was Glober 35 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:47,800 Speaker 2: there yet? 36 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:51,600 Speaker 4: Or no Glober was there? It was an epic lineup. 37 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 3: Peter King was there though I never that's right, never 38 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 3: interacted with him. 39 00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:58,720 Speaker 4: But I had some incredible assignments. 40 00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:02,200 Speaker 3: I got to do the Empires State games in Syracuse, 41 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:07,760 Speaker 3: did a Yankee sidebar, covered a I guess an Indie 42 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:10,560 Speaker 3: car race they had in the parking lot at the Meadowlands. 43 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:14,880 Speaker 3: Basically all sorts of really cool stuff. And yeah, and 44 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:19,880 Speaker 3: the crew on preps was also very distinguished. We had 45 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:25,400 Speaker 3: aj Benza in that group, the legendary Greg Sarah, among others. 46 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:28,200 Speaker 2: That is fantastic. All right, So Mikes joining us today 47 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:30,240 Speaker 2: in the Hackensack Brity Hell podcast, you would keep getting 48 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:31,960 Speaker 2: better because he his new book. They came out at 49 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:33,040 Speaker 2: the end of twenty four. 50 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 3: Correct, Yeah, this came out last October, and it is 51 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:43,480 Speaker 3: a story of basically the Shanahan McVeigh coaching crew, which 52 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:46,720 Speaker 3: includes so many others. The main characters in this book 53 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:51,720 Speaker 3: include Mike McDaniel, Raheie Morris, Batt Lafleur, so five current 54 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:56,520 Speaker 3: NFL head coaches, but really starts with Mike Shanahan kind 55 00:02:56,560 --> 00:03:00,919 Speaker 3: of rebuilding his career with Steve Young, who I mentioned 56 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 3: getting the forty nine ers rolling in the nineties, then 57 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:08,519 Speaker 3: going to Denver doing it with Lway adding outside zone 58 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:13,320 Speaker 3: into that schematic ebix, and then that staff in the 59 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 3: early twenty tens with all five of these guys above 60 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:22,120 Speaker 3: others in Washington where RG three shows up as a 61 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:26,240 Speaker 3: raw rookie and they end up transporting their entire system 62 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:28,560 Speaker 3: to run it out of the pistol and taking a 63 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:31,640 Speaker 3: league by storm. So yeah, it's a really cool story 64 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:35,480 Speaker 3: about how football's evolved, about how this crew and their 65 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:40,040 Speaker 3: different mindset has played a huge role. But I don't 66 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:43,480 Speaker 3: want everyone to think it's just totally a high concept thing. 67 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:49,120 Speaker 3: There's tons of pettiness and rivalry and dirt all through 68 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 3: it that will illuminate you as you go through it. 69 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:56,800 Speaker 2: Yeah. And the name of the book is the Why 70 00:03:56,880 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 2: Is Everything? A story of football, rivalry and revolution. This one. 71 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:01,680 Speaker 2: I would normally hold up the book, but I have 72 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 2: it digitally, so I can't hold up the books. So 73 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:05,680 Speaker 2: I'm gonna have to virtually Paul he's got it right there, 74 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:08,120 Speaker 2: say he's got the hard copy. 75 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:09,119 Speaker 4: I'm prepared. Yeah. 76 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:12,200 Speaker 3: And it's you know, Amazon or anything you want to 77 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:16,880 Speaker 3: click on will have it. Your bookstore should have it. 78 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:20,600 Speaker 3: It is it's it's a winner. If you love football, 79 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 3: you'll be into it. And if you don't know football 80 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:25,400 Speaker 3: that well, I think it'll give you a sense of 81 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:29,200 Speaker 3: the bizarre world in which you and I and others traffic. 82 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:29,719 Speaker 4: Yeah. 83 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:31,240 Speaker 2: Look, and the reason I wanted to talk to you, Mike, 84 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:34,080 Speaker 2: is because this coaching tree has sprouted so many roots 85 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:35,840 Speaker 2: of the league. You mentioned some of the names, though, 86 00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:38,320 Speaker 2: Kevin O'Connell into the mix, though Zach Taylor into the mix. 87 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:40,919 Speaker 2: There are so many guys that have come off of 88 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:44,000 Speaker 2: this tree. And I want to start here, Why did 89 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:46,960 Speaker 2: you choose the title that you did? Specifically the why 90 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:49,760 Speaker 2: is everything and why did you want to start with that? 91 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:51,760 Speaker 2: When it comes to this group of coaches. 92 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 4: That's a good question. 93 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:57,239 Speaker 3: I mean, honestly, I kind of lost the battle with 94 00:04:56,600 --> 00:05:01,440 Speaker 3: my publisher, my agent and others, but you know, I 95 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:05,400 Speaker 3: think you know, you hear the term the why, and 96 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:09,240 Speaker 3: it just keeps coming up when you talk to these people, 97 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:13,040 Speaker 3: and it really represents the revolution that has taken place 98 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:15,839 Speaker 3: during my time covering football, that they've been at the 99 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:19,600 Speaker 3: forefront of so for so long. Football coaches were kind 100 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:22,000 Speaker 3: of like, we do it because it works, We do 101 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 3: it because that's the way it's been done. Don't ask questions, 102 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:28,640 Speaker 3: just do what we say. And if there was an 103 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:31,920 Speaker 3: overall theory behind what they were doing as opposed to 104 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:34,440 Speaker 3: just coming up with plays and picking them off a 105 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:38,600 Speaker 3: du it was not conveyed to the people executing it, 106 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 3: and that's the way they liked it. This group, everything 107 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:46,400 Speaker 3: is an ecosystem and everything is based off I know 108 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:48,920 Speaker 3: your rules. I'm going to try to exploit them this way. 109 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:52,080 Speaker 3: I'm anticipating your counter move. We have an answer if 110 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:55,720 Speaker 3: you do that. It's not infallible, but that's the mentality, 111 00:05:55,839 --> 00:06:00,680 Speaker 3: and everything is open to being questioned, and creative solutions can. 112 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:01,520 Speaker 4: Come up on the fly. 113 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:04,320 Speaker 3: But their rule with each other is you have to 114 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:06,000 Speaker 3: be able to tell me the why. You have to 115 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:08,279 Speaker 3: be able to explain to me why you want this 116 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:11,240 Speaker 3: play in the game plan, what is the larger purpose 117 00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:15,159 Speaker 3: of it in the context of everything that we do 118 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:17,960 Speaker 3: and that we are. And then you also need to 119 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:21,320 Speaker 3: be able to explain that to the players, not just 120 00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:25,159 Speaker 3: if they asked, but hey, receivers, we tell you to 121 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:27,920 Speaker 3: go seven and a half steps with your shoulder pointed 122 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:31,760 Speaker 3: this way and then turn. Every single time you run 123 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:34,279 Speaker 3: this route and hear this call, this is why we're 124 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:37,400 Speaker 3: doing that. We're setting them up for this or it 125 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:40,799 Speaker 3: makes this other thing work. And so they have found 126 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:43,839 Speaker 3: that that's kind of a cooler way to operate. And 127 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:46,800 Speaker 3: I think you know shorthand version of that is these 128 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:51,360 Speaker 3: scientists are overtaking the meatheads, and these guys are at 129 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 3: the forefront. 130 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:54,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, and look, and I think you kind of brought 131 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:57,160 Speaker 2: up there to me, what makes this group different? You know, 132 00:06:57,240 --> 00:06:59,320 Speaker 2: so many times throughout the NFL Lea've seen them, Mike, 133 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:02,919 Speaker 2: it's all sickle, right. Defense starts doing one thing, offense reacts, 134 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:04,680 Speaker 2: they do another and the defense reacts to that, they 135 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:07,359 Speaker 2: do another. In a lot of ways, this McVeigh system 136 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 2: wasn't a response to the great Pete Carroll Cover three 137 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:13,600 Speaker 2: systems in Seattle. Everyone thought of running cover three. This 138 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:15,840 Speaker 2: system figured out a way to beat that sort of stuff. 139 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:18,240 Speaker 2: But I think what impresses me the most about this group, 140 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 2: and I think we've seen it with McVeigh in terms 141 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:21,960 Speaker 2: of how he's changed his run game. We've seen Kyle 142 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 2: Shanahan that since he's changed quarterbacks with Party, he's altered 143 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:27,800 Speaker 2: his offense a little bit. These guys are not static 144 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:28,400 Speaker 2: in their system. 145 00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:28,600 Speaker 3: You know. 146 00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:30,480 Speaker 2: It used to be with his dad, Mike, all the 147 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:34,320 Speaker 2: outside zone stuff, right, McVeigh doesn't even run outside zone anymore. 148 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:38,200 Speaker 2: Their ability and willingness to adjust their philosophy I think 149 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:41,200 Speaker 2: sets them apart from some other coaches in the past 150 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:43,720 Speaker 2: that had a single way of doing things and that's 151 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:45,400 Speaker 2: what they were going to do, come hell or high water. 152 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:49,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, And it aligns with this era as rookie quarterbacks 153 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:51,520 Speaker 3: are thrown in right away, So that RG three example 154 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 3: is a classic example. He had only run things out 155 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:58,160 Speaker 3: of the pistol at Baylor, and obviously they were going 156 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 3: to have to play him, and he was a transcendent talent. 157 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:02,880 Speaker 3: And so instead of saying r G three, we're going 158 00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:05,680 Speaker 3: to make you learn our offense. And you know, they 159 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:09,680 Speaker 3: were like, hey, how do we keep the essence of 160 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 3: our offense but you know, adjust it so that he 161 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:16,680 Speaker 3: can run it. And it was very hard endeavor that 162 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 3: involved a lot of you know, backwards thinking, and we 163 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:23,800 Speaker 3: get into that in terms of the number says you 164 00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:26,960 Speaker 3: go this way, but now we have to actually have 165 00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:29,080 Speaker 3: the other side of the line blocked this way because 166 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:32,320 Speaker 3: his own read they figured all that out and the 167 00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:35,320 Speaker 3: rest of the league really didn't. So you're right, it's 168 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:38,400 Speaker 3: you know, the first thing is we're not just going 169 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:43,319 Speaker 3: to force a player to you know, run it the 170 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:46,240 Speaker 3: way we've always run it. For the sake of you know, 171 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:50,559 Speaker 3: our system. We will make our system pliable. But yeah, 172 00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:54,240 Speaker 3: it is you know, it is ever evolving. And you know, 173 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:58,040 Speaker 3: you mentioned McVeigh, Kyle Shanahan. 174 00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:01,439 Speaker 4: You know, this is a group that. 175 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:07,199 Speaker 3: Is constantly evolving visa VI each other. There's actually, oh 176 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:11,960 Speaker 3: you mentioned the cover three's it's there's a great sequence 177 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:16,200 Speaker 3: in this book where Kyle Shanahan goes to Atlanta after 178 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:20,560 Speaker 3: washing out in both Washington and Cleveland didn't wash out, 179 00:09:20,559 --> 00:09:24,160 Speaker 3: but forced his way out after a dysfunctional year with 180 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:27,960 Speaker 3: Johnny Manziel and all that, and gets to Atlanta with 181 00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:31,000 Speaker 3: dan Quinn, and so he's practicing against that dan Quinn 182 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:36,600 Speaker 3: Pete Carroll Seattle three defense you know, every day, and 183 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:40,200 Speaker 3: Kyle figures out their rules and figures out how to 184 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:43,920 Speaker 3: break the rules. And there's an example of a game 185 00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:48,559 Speaker 3: in Seattle where the Falcons make them follow their rules 186 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:51,640 Speaker 3: and get a tight end running wide open down the 187 00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:54,040 Speaker 3: middle of the field, and Richard Sherman and the other 188 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:56,560 Speaker 3: guys on the seatk defense are screaming at each other 189 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:00,760 Speaker 3: and screaming at their coaches because the system doesn't allow 190 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:04,440 Speaker 3: them to cover that route, and Kyle has figured it out. 191 00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:06,959 Speaker 3: So then when Kyle gets the forty nine er job, 192 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:10,160 Speaker 3: he ends up hiring Robert Sala. He's comfortable with that 193 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:14,120 Speaker 3: Seattle three scheme, another guy who comes from that, and 194 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:17,960 Speaker 3: he wants to run that scheme. And you know, there's 195 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:20,760 Speaker 3: a quote in the book where another coach says, the 196 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 3: forty Nares keep getting burned in those early solid years, 197 00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:27,280 Speaker 3: and Kyle doesn't even understand that they're just copying his stuff. 198 00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:30,520 Speaker 3: He's broken the system. Everybody else has now figured it 199 00:10:30,559 --> 00:10:33,000 Speaker 3: out because of Kyle, and now it's coming back to 200 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:35,840 Speaker 3: bite him and he hasn't even made the connection yet 201 00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 3: that he's burning himself. So yeah, totally cyclical. You know 202 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:44,520 Speaker 3: they were gonna adapt it to Trey Lance. That's a 203 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:46,000 Speaker 3: whole debacle that we cover. 204 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:47,719 Speaker 4: But you know, how do you. 205 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:53,720 Speaker 3: Survive using three ones to take someone three overall and 206 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:56,640 Speaker 3: having him not be a good NFL player? 207 00:10:57,720 --> 00:10:58,520 Speaker 4: Usually you don't. 208 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:02,520 Speaker 3: Everyone's fired, the organization set back, unless with the two 209 00:11:02,559 --> 00:11:05,040 Speaker 3: hundred and sixty second and last pick the next year, 210 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:08,840 Speaker 3: you end up taking a guy Brock Party, who can 211 00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:10,880 Speaker 3: can be your franchise quarterback. 212 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:13,839 Speaker 2: It's amazing, Mike, and I always like to make this point, 213 00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:16,520 Speaker 2: how much in the NFL people like to dismiss luck, 214 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:18,800 Speaker 2: and how much luck has to do with everything. You know, 215 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:21,040 Speaker 2: people are like, oh, the Niners were such geniuses for 216 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:22,839 Speaker 2: finding Brock Party, and I'm like, you do, as he 217 00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 2: had a seventh round pick before Party. If they thought 218 00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:28,040 Speaker 2: he was going to be that good, something tells you 219 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:30,240 Speaker 2: they would have used the first seventh round pick on him. 220 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:32,280 Speaker 2: And that, yeah, my last one. 221 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:36,079 Speaker 3: Right and one of the delicious surprises of this book, 222 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:38,080 Speaker 3: and I have it all documented. Is you know, I 223 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:40,840 Speaker 3: go way back with Mike Shanahan, and I was spending 224 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:44,400 Speaker 3: a lot of time with him in that twenty twenty 225 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:46,680 Speaker 3: two offseason, and of course I was asking him a 226 00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:50,280 Speaker 3: lot about Trey Lance and Jimmy Garoppolo because he still watches, 227 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:53,079 Speaker 3: you know, all the practice tape and everything. And he 228 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:57,800 Speaker 3: kept mentioning Brock Party because Mike had seen now Ota 229 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:00,640 Speaker 3: tapes and bitty camp tapes and this. 230 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:03,600 Speaker 4: Draft or this you know, last pick of the draft. 231 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:06,320 Speaker 3: This guy was popping out to Mike Shanahan and he 232 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:09,760 Speaker 3: kept speaking of Rock Party, and so you know, I 233 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:11,959 Speaker 3: kind of had my eye on Party because of that 234 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:14,480 Speaker 3: in training camp. And then there's a scene in the 235 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:17,560 Speaker 3: book where they're getting ready to play the Bears in 236 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:20,640 Speaker 3: the season opener. It's Trey Lance's first game as the 237 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:25,719 Speaker 3: actual starter in his second year, and Mike Shanahan has 238 00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:28,280 Speaker 3: me go to his room in the JW. Marriott in 239 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:32,440 Speaker 3: downtown Chicago and we're talking about the game the next day, 240 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:35,680 Speaker 3: and I'm asking him about Trey Lance, and again he 241 00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:38,720 Speaker 3: brings up Purty and he says, when you have a 242 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:42,360 Speaker 3: guy like that in your building. You don't let him out, 243 00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:45,600 Speaker 3: and I'm like, wait, we're talking about brock Purdy, right 244 00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:48,440 Speaker 3: like kind of you know, I get chills thinking about 245 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:51,400 Speaker 3: it now. So you're right, you know, as brilliant as 246 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:54,199 Speaker 3: Kyle is, and you know, you really see a portrait 247 00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:55,720 Speaker 3: of that in this book. 248 00:12:56,520 --> 00:12:58,560 Speaker 4: I think Mike was a little earlier on. 249 00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:01,920 Speaker 3: Purty than Kyle, because if Kyle had understood it to 250 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:04,680 Speaker 3: that level. You're right, he doesn't go to sixty two. 251 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:07,199 Speaker 3: They don't play around. They got him a lot higher. 252 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:08,960 Speaker 3: And of course they just paid him like a guy 253 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:11,080 Speaker 3: who you would have taken third overall. 254 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:13,640 Speaker 2: The Giants Total podcast is brought to you by Citizens, 255 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:16,920 Speaker 2: the official bank of the Giants. 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By the way, he's an excellent quarterback you 266 00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:44,560 Speaker 2: mentioned Raheem Morris. He's kind of the sore thumb in 267 00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:47,120 Speaker 2: this because he's a defensive guy. How does he fit 268 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:50,440 Speaker 2: into this whole like offensive guru group and how does 269 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:52,280 Speaker 2: that work well. 270 00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:56,160 Speaker 3: Raheem Morris is the one who's quote provided the chapter 271 00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:59,600 Speaker 3: title to one of my favorite chapters, which is enemy Friends, 272 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:02,520 Speaker 3: which is the way he describes Sean McVay and Kyle 273 00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:05,880 Speaker 3: Shanah had. He's very close friends with both. They're they're 274 00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:07,720 Speaker 3: not like that with each other. They a lot of 275 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:11,120 Speaker 3: respect and a lot of history. But Raheem would be 276 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:14,360 Speaker 3: a common denominator. But it's interesting you mentioned that because 277 00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:18,040 Speaker 3: he was a young coach in Tampa, very young, had 278 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:21,480 Speaker 3: some early success following John Grudin, and then was fired 279 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:23,680 Speaker 3: after three seasons, and it took him a long time 280 00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:27,360 Speaker 3: to get that second opportunity, and he did establish himself 281 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:29,160 Speaker 3: as a great defensive coordinator. 282 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:32,800 Speaker 4: But one of the things that happens in the book. 283 00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:35,400 Speaker 3: Is that Kyle, after his first year in Atlanta, is 284 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:41,200 Speaker 3: looking for a receivers coach to replace Terry Rubisky, and 285 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:45,760 Speaker 3: dan Quinn has asked Rahim, hey, can you vet some 286 00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:48,920 Speaker 3: candidates for me? And Raheem at one point says to Quinn, 287 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:50,880 Speaker 3: you know, these guys, A couple of these guys are 288 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:54,720 Speaker 3: really good. But Kyle doesn't necessarily need a classic receivers coach. 289 00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:57,080 Speaker 3: He knows the position so well. He just needs a 290 00:14:57,080 --> 00:14:59,680 Speaker 3: guy who understands him and what he wants and how 291 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:03,280 Speaker 3: he communicates and could communicate it to the players. 292 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:06,280 Speaker 4: And you know, Dan kind of goes huh. 293 00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:09,520 Speaker 3: And then Raheem's at a mall a few hours later 294 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:11,239 Speaker 3: and Dan calls him and goes. 295 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:15,240 Speaker 4: What about you? And Raheem's like, huh. 296 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:20,360 Speaker 3: And eventually Kyle decides to receivers coach and switches him 297 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 3: over to offense, and so Raheem ends up getting a 298 00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 3: bunch fuller understanding of the other side of the ball. 299 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:30,760 Speaker 3: And it was illuminating to all these guys because Matt 300 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:34,800 Speaker 3: Lafleur told me, now, I always want a defensive guy 301 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:38,000 Speaker 3: with my offensive coaches and vice versa, at least as 302 00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:40,960 Speaker 3: a consultant. And we saw that with Robert Saul last 303 00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:43,600 Speaker 3: season after he got fired by the Jets. But you know, 304 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:48,360 Speaker 3: they like the you know, reverse perceive, and you know 305 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:52,480 Speaker 3: it obviously makes people a well rounded coach. Mike Shanahan 306 00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:55,000 Speaker 3: advised Kyle when he was a quality control coach in 307 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:58,560 Speaker 3: Tampa starting out on that Gruden staff, which is how 308 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:01,680 Speaker 3: he and Rahee Morris bonded so much. But he advised Kyle, 309 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:04,240 Speaker 3: he goes, Hey, when you're done with your work, sitting 310 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:07,440 Speaker 3: on the defensive meetings, it's Monnie Kiffin, it's Joe Barry, 311 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:11,040 Speaker 3: it's Rahie Morris, it's Mike Tomlin. It's an incredible staff, 312 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:13,720 Speaker 3: and you're going to learn so much. And that really 313 00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:16,640 Speaker 3: helped give Kyle a sense of the defensive side of 314 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:18,720 Speaker 3: the ball. There are other examples in here, like Bobby 315 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:22,320 Speaker 3: Slowick on that Washington staff as a defensive coach. They 316 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:25,000 Speaker 3: end up moving him over to offense at San Francisco 317 00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:28,040 Speaker 3: and then he goes on to become the Texans offensive 318 00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:32,360 Speaker 3: coordinator in that CJ. Stroud rookie season. So but yeah, 319 00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:36,640 Speaker 3: raheem to me is an incredible character. He's really really 320 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:42,040 Speaker 3: open about his development and maturity. He's very funny. It 321 00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:44,440 Speaker 3: gives you a really good portrait of him. And then 322 00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:47,520 Speaker 3: of course Mike McDaniel. I mean, I just hate sharing 323 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:49,600 Speaker 3: him with the world now, you know, when he's miked 324 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:53,520 Speaker 3: up and doing his thing. But I started taking Mike McDaniel. 325 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:56,280 Speaker 3: I think as far back as twenty eighteen. I've known 326 00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:59,040 Speaker 3: him a long time, and you know, it was fun 327 00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:01,880 Speaker 3: when no one knew who he was was because he's 328 00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:04,439 Speaker 3: he's always been that out there and that funny and 329 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:09,719 Speaker 3: that brilliant, and his story is so unlikely from the start, 330 00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 3: you know, in terms of ending up as an NFL 331 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:16,679 Speaker 3: head coach, And it really kind of fits in with 332 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:21,640 Speaker 3: the whole rivalry aspect and how badly did Kyle Shanahead 333 00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:23,640 Speaker 3: want to keep Mike McDaniel. 334 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:26,680 Speaker 4: In San Francisco and not let him leave. 335 00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:31,600 Speaker 3: Well, there's even a story of Mike McDaniel getting ready 336 00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:33,959 Speaker 3: for his first and only head coaching interview. 337 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:36,520 Speaker 4: I guess he ended up having another one with the Dolphins. 338 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:41,760 Speaker 3: But as league rules mandated during the twenty one playoffs 339 00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:46,399 Speaker 3: by zoom, and you know, he's got a Niners are 340 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:48,520 Speaker 3: in the playoffs. He's got to time it up to 341 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:52,640 Speaker 3: practice and all that. And mysteriously, the Niners practice schedule 342 00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:56,720 Speaker 3: keeps changing like three separate times, I think, and he 343 00:17:56,800 --> 00:17:59,600 Speaker 3: has to keep calling the Dolphins back and mess it 344 00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:02,800 Speaker 3: up to schedule, and uh, you know, in Mike's view, 345 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:06,360 Speaker 3: that's Kyle just trying to you know, make it harder 346 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:09,560 Speaker 3: and the Dolphins it kind of backfire because the Dolphins' 347 00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:13,320 Speaker 3: decision makers were like, he must really want to keep 348 00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:15,040 Speaker 3: this guy, like he must be pretty good. 349 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:17,199 Speaker 2: Two more on the book, and this goes back to 350 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:18,600 Speaker 2: the point you kind of just made. These guys are 351 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:21,640 Speaker 2: all friends, but their rivals too, right. They all came 352 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:24,240 Speaker 2: under that Jay Gruden staff that you mentioned in Washington, 353 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 2: the Mike shanahead staff. Yeah, right, exactly, and then then 354 00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:30,920 Speaker 2: and then a lot of them were with Jay Groot 355 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:31,720 Speaker 2: took over for Mike. 356 00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:31,960 Speaker 3: Right. 357 00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:34,600 Speaker 4: Eventually Ivey was the one who stayed with Jay Grutin yea. 358 00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:38,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, got it. And they compete with each other, so 359 00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:40,040 Speaker 2: they love each other, but at the same time, they 360 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:41,280 Speaker 2: want to beat each other and they want to one 361 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:43,520 Speaker 2: up each other with scheme and x's and o's. How 362 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:46,080 Speaker 2: does that rivalry kind of take place and open up 363 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:48,480 Speaker 2: because I'm sure in some ways they compare notes, but 364 00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:50,440 Speaker 2: they also don't want to give each other too much 365 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:52,440 Speaker 2: because they want to look like the better coach. 366 00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:56,359 Speaker 3: Right, I mean, Shanahan and McVay are in the same division, 367 00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:59,640 Speaker 3: got hired at the same time, so there's no semblance 368 00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:02,879 Speaker 3: of co operation. I think they're pretty open about the rivalry. 369 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:05,360 Speaker 3: They know each one knows the other one's good. They're 370 00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:10,800 Speaker 3: very different. McVeigh is much more tethered to the leadership 371 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:14,159 Speaker 3: and the you know, communication with the players and the 372 00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:20,320 Speaker 3: vibe and scheme is almost secondary, whereas with Kyle it's 373 00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:22,880 Speaker 3: very very scheme oriented and he's gotten a lot better 374 00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:25,960 Speaker 3: in terms of the relating to players and the communication. 375 00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:29,600 Speaker 3: But you know, each one thinks his way is pair 376 00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:33,520 Speaker 3: about and Mike McDaniel says in the book, each one 377 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:38,280 Speaker 3: almost has to believe that existentially, because you know, to 378 00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:42,480 Speaker 3: believe otherwise we'd go against everything they are. But great 379 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:47,879 Speaker 3: juxtaposition there. You know, Lafleur and Kyle, who were very close, 380 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:51,800 Speaker 3: got very crossed up during the time when it looked 381 00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:55,159 Speaker 3: like Aaron Rodgers was going to leave the Packers. You know, 382 00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:59,280 Speaker 3: in twenty twenty one, in that offseason, Kyle made a call. 383 00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:03,480 Speaker 3: Lafleur kind of thought that his friend was taking advantage 384 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:07,000 Speaker 3: of a situation and possibly inside information because of their 385 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:12,160 Speaker 3: friendship and trying to you know, deprive him of his MVP, and. 386 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:13,639 Speaker 4: It got pretty bad. It's all detailed in here. 387 00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:19,400 Speaker 3: You know, it's better now, you know, McDaniel really respects 388 00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:21,560 Speaker 3: Kyle and owes him a lot and knows it, but 389 00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:25,600 Speaker 3: also felt like he was under Kyle's thumb in, you know, 390 00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:27,600 Speaker 3: in an unhealthy way for a long time. 391 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:29,920 Speaker 4: So there's there's a little bit of spice there. 392 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:34,840 Speaker 3: Uh. And then you know there are other various intersections, 393 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:39,200 Speaker 3: and you know, you add into Kevin O'Connell's and Demiko 394 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:42,920 Speaker 3: Ryan's and Robert Salla Brandon Staley, there's a lot going 395 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:48,040 Speaker 3: on in this ecosystem at all times. But yeah, certainly 396 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:50,280 Speaker 3: a ton of respect and they all love Mike Shanahan. 397 00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:52,800 Speaker 3: They all love Mike Shanahan, and they all love Rahim 398 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:54,200 Speaker 3: everyone else. 399 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:55,760 Speaker 4: It's kind of fair. 400 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:58,879 Speaker 2: Game final question. And you kind of brought this up 401 00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:01,960 Speaker 2: in your last answer. You know, the success rate for 402 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:05,120 Speaker 2: coaches off of this tree have has been very very high, 403 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:08,080 Speaker 2: especially for the guys on the offensive side. And I 404 00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:11,040 Speaker 2: maybe it shouldn't surprise you, but Mike, you made the point. 405 00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:13,679 Speaker 2: X's and o's is a big part of this. But 406 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:15,720 Speaker 2: as you well know, covering this league, as long as 407 00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:18,600 Speaker 2: you have the personality and connecting to your team and 408 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:20,840 Speaker 2: that sort of stuff of being a head coach is 409 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:23,520 Speaker 2: maybe more important. You can be the greatest tactician. If 410 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:25,080 Speaker 2: you can't connect with your players and gets them to 411 00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:26,640 Speaker 2: believe in what you're doing, is not going to matter. 412 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:29,920 Speaker 2: Why do you think, Michael, The guys from this tree 413 00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:32,760 Speaker 2: have all been able to figure out maybe their own 414 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:34,840 Speaker 2: way of doing things that maybe a little bit different 415 00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:37,560 Speaker 2: from each other, but all of seemed to work in 416 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:39,600 Speaker 2: terms of them connecting with their players. 417 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:42,280 Speaker 4: Yeah, and you know, hackets from this group. 418 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:45,960 Speaker 3: So it's not an infallible uh you know, sample size, 419 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:48,840 Speaker 3: but yeah, you're right, it's been pretty good. And you know, 420 00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:52,480 Speaker 3: wallsh really started with Walls, who you know, kind of 421 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:56,200 Speaker 3: begat Mike shad aheaded directly and you know Andy Reid 422 00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:58,880 Speaker 3: and like Home Gridd so so many others, but Bill 423 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:01,720 Speaker 3: wallsh his tree and it was a big, big deal, 424 00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:05,640 Speaker 3: whereas the Belichick Parcels side has been more like hands off. 425 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:09,159 Speaker 3: My coaches they all suck, don't touch them. And you know, 426 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:13,200 Speaker 3: I just think for one thing, you know, it does 427 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:15,760 Speaker 3: go back to what I said earlier. They take a 428 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:19,680 Speaker 3: lot of pride in being able to explain why they're 429 00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:22,879 Speaker 3: asking their players to do certain things and then show 430 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:25,560 Speaker 3: why it'll work. And so there are different ways to 431 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:28,879 Speaker 3: communicate and create that culture. And with McVeigh sometimes it 432 00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:31,960 Speaker 3: sounds like a Ted talk and all that, whereas with 433 00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:35,879 Speaker 3: Kyle it's much more using video like look this dude, 434 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:38,560 Speaker 3: you know this dB is gonna get caught right here. 435 00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:41,040 Speaker 3: We're gonna make his head spin. He's not gonna know 436 00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:44,040 Speaker 3: you know what the bleep just happened. And you know 437 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:46,040 Speaker 3: you're gonna take it to the house. And you know, 438 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:50,200 Speaker 3: it gets people fired up because of what he's showing them, 439 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:53,600 Speaker 3: you know his plan is. But yeah, I think part 440 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:58,800 Speaker 3: of it is just being you know, valuing, the valuing, 441 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:02,440 Speaker 3: the need to explain to players why what we're asking 442 00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:05,040 Speaker 3: is important and why it's gonna work if you do 443 00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:06,840 Speaker 3: it the way we asked you to. 444 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:08,760 Speaker 4: You know, that goes a long way. 445 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:11,760 Speaker 3: And then of course we juxtapose everything with the you know, 446 00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:16,040 Speaker 3: parcels and now Belichick tree, and there have been instances 447 00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:20,800 Speaker 3: of high profile failures, you know, from the Belichick side 448 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:24,920 Speaker 3: in recent years that we can all point to spectacularly. 449 00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:27,120 Speaker 2: Right, We wouldn't know any thing about that over here, Michael, Yeah, right. 450 00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:30,040 Speaker 3: And and you know, and you know, and and Dave 451 00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:32,760 Speaker 3: Ball to me is really interesting because you know, he's 452 00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:36,440 Speaker 3: from that tree. And he definitely has plenty of those tendencies. 453 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:39,480 Speaker 3: But I do think he has tried really hard not to, 454 00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:42,320 Speaker 3: you know, be a Bill clone. 455 00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:45,640 Speaker 4: And you know, the people from. 456 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:48,920 Speaker 3: There who've succeeded, and I would count Bill O'Brien as 457 00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:51,159 Speaker 3: someone who succeeded if you look back and what he 458 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:54,719 Speaker 3: did in Houston with you know, with lesser quarterbacks than 459 00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:59,040 Speaker 3: Deshaun Watson most of the time. But the ones who've 460 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:03,600 Speaker 3: succeeded have seemed to recognize like, yeah, Bill did a 461 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:06,920 Speaker 3: lot of great things, but trying to be him isn't 462 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:07,760 Speaker 3: the formula. 463 00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:08,920 Speaker 4: And you know, I. 464 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:11,040 Speaker 3: Always, you know, I laugh at the you know, in 465 00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:14,560 Speaker 3: Siano's kind of adjacent. But what Josh McDaniels did the 466 00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:19,360 Speaker 3: first time in Denver, Matt Patricia, Joe Judge, as you know, 467 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:23,120 Speaker 3: it's like it's almost like they coached as though, Hey, 468 00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:25,760 Speaker 3: if I just act like a jerk like Bill did, 469 00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:27,320 Speaker 3: I'll win. 470 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:28,960 Speaker 2: And I you know, Bill. 471 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:30,680 Speaker 4: Didn't win because he acted like a jerk. 472 00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:32,800 Speaker 3: He won because he's one of the greatest coaches of 473 00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:36,280 Speaker 3: all time, and he had Tom Brady, not necessarily in 474 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:39,080 Speaker 3: that order. So if you can coach like Bill and 475 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:41,840 Speaker 3: get a Tom Brady act however you want. 476 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:43,000 Speaker 4: It's gonna be fine. 477 00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:47,920 Speaker 3: But merely acting like him is not gonna unlock anything. 478 00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:50,600 Speaker 3: And it doesn't really you know, endear you to your 479 00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:53,240 Speaker 3: players early on, and that can hurt you if it's 480 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:56,359 Speaker 3: not happening. And let's be honest, you know, it didn't 481 00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:59,840 Speaker 3: go great for Bill post Brady when he didn't have 482 00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:05,439 Speaker 3: you know, success and the infrastructure to get away with that. 483 00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:08,560 Speaker 3: And of course that's back when Bill preached so many 484 00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:09,120 Speaker 3: things that. 485 00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:13,919 Speaker 4: On paper he may be you know, violating. 486 00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:15,400 Speaker 3: The spirit of I don't get into all that, but 487 00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:18,720 Speaker 3: it is you know a lot of people have remarked, 488 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:23,600 Speaker 3: you know, about how Bill's culture now is at odds 489 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:26,359 Speaker 3: with what he preached for so long. But you know, 490 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:28,399 Speaker 3: I do think Davis has a chance. I mean, that 491 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:30,320 Speaker 3: first year was really striking. I don't know how they 492 00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:30,920 Speaker 3: did that. 493 00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:34,600 Speaker 2: Either might be yeah, and I'm. 494 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:36,960 Speaker 3: Not sure, and I'm not sure they knew from talking 495 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:39,320 Speaker 3: to them. I mean, they knew it could go okay, 496 00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:42,000 Speaker 3: but like they were, you know, they were way ahead 497 00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:44,480 Speaker 3: of schedule, as you know, and then you know, you 498 00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:45,119 Speaker 3: know the rest. 499 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:47,520 Speaker 4: But you know, I'm. 500 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:52,040 Speaker 3: Excited to see, you know, what Brian might be able 501 00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:55,200 Speaker 3: to pull off this year. It's going to be really tough. 502 00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:58,920 Speaker 3: It's a brutal division. And you know you've either got 503 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:02,199 Speaker 3: you know, you've either got a veteran quarterback trying to 504 00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:07,240 Speaker 3: recapture his former glories, or you know, you throw in 505 00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:11,879 Speaker 3: a rookie under duress. But you know it's it's going 506 00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:14,440 Speaker 3: to be really interesting. And I will say this about 507 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:16,480 Speaker 3: day Ball, and so in this book we talk about 508 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:21,760 Speaker 3: the specific, often offensive side of the ball schematic brilliance 509 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:24,239 Speaker 3: of this group, and I'll stand by that, but there 510 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:27,359 Speaker 3: have been some other, you know, great coaching things that 511 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:29,720 Speaker 3: happened that we don't get into it this book, you know, 512 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:33,119 Speaker 3: from Sean Payton to Andy Reid and so many others. 513 00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:36,239 Speaker 3: But I cite day Ball a lot in that. You know, 514 00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:40,200 Speaker 3: everyone's always told me you can't coach accuracy. You either 515 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:42,080 Speaker 3: have it or you don't. And you know, I saw 516 00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:45,399 Speaker 3: that with Trey Lance very vividly. And yet we have 517 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,040 Speaker 3: an example, the only one that I've ever heard of, 518 00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:50,600 Speaker 3: and Noah, of a guy who was a fifty five 519 00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:55,639 Speaker 3: percent passer, Josh Allen, who got coached up to the seventies. 520 00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:59,320 Speaker 3: And it's you know, I still marvel at it and 521 00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:03,199 Speaker 3: so because Brian day Ball as coordinator in Buffalo was 522 00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:06,119 Speaker 3: part of that and probably a big part of that. 523 00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:09,520 Speaker 3: You know, it had it got a lot of people's attention, 524 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:12,520 Speaker 3: and I would still say, you know, it's hard to 525 00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:16,359 Speaker 3: write him off as a strategist, you know, in the 526 00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:20,520 Speaker 3: wake of that. And so you know, look, Anthony Richardson, 527 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:23,960 Speaker 3: I think is forty four point nine percent something ghastly. 528 00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:29,119 Speaker 3: I think even before I saw his shoulder thing, you know, 529 00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:32,080 Speaker 3: I thought Daniel Jones would beat him out almost certainly, 530 00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:35,760 Speaker 3: you know, because he just hasn't been able to find 531 00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:39,359 Speaker 3: accuracy and Trey Lance just has not been able to 532 00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:42,200 Speaker 3: find accuracy. And you know, may never start another game 533 00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:46,879 Speaker 3: in the NFL. But if you're looking for a path 534 00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:50,880 Speaker 3: forward ever, figure out what Brian Daball did in Buffalo 535 00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:53,280 Speaker 3: with Josh Allen, because it was unbelievable. If you want 536 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:55,560 Speaker 3: to know how to manage two minutes of crunch time football, 537 00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:56,240 Speaker 3: I'm your man. 538 00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:59,119 Speaker 2: But if you're wondering about a long term financial plan, you. 539 00:27:59,080 --> 00:27:59,960 Speaker 4: Should talk to cit Us. 540 00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:01,760 Speaker 2: Hey, I can also talk long care. 541 00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:04,720 Speaker 4: I'd like to learn about Annliar team. Yes, I knew I. 542 00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:08,520 Speaker 2: Could help make sense of your money with citizens all right. 543 00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:10,240 Speaker 2: By the way, the book again, the Why is Everything? 544 00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:12,880 Speaker 2: A story of football rivalry and revolution. Michael will hold 545 00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:14,840 Speaker 2: it up there we go. All right, So you mentioned 546 00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:18,160 Speaker 2: it's a really tough division Michael for the Giants this year. Look, 547 00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:20,119 Speaker 2: their defense is a lot of players on it. We 548 00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:22,920 Speaker 2: don't know about the quarterback. What has to happen here? 549 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:25,200 Speaker 2: Do you think for the Giants to make some noise 550 00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:27,320 Speaker 2: in this division? And what do you think this division 551 00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:28,480 Speaker 2: is going to look like when we get to the 552 00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:29,840 Speaker 2: end of the year here, besides the fact that the 553 00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:31,640 Speaker 2: Eagles are probably one thing going to be on top 554 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:31,920 Speaker 2: of it. 555 00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:34,480 Speaker 3: I mean, the Eagles look like a monster. They did 556 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:36,679 Speaker 3: lose some guys, but you know, I have a feeling 557 00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:40,000 Speaker 3: the Eagles will at least be one of the better 558 00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:42,720 Speaker 3: teams in the league during the regular season. That seems 559 00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:45,480 Speaker 3: like a fair bet. You know, Dallas is interesting. They've 560 00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:48,000 Speaker 3: got some energy with Brian Schottenham. I'm gonna be writing 561 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:51,200 Speaker 3: about him for the Athletic coming up very soon and 562 00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:56,000 Speaker 3: spend some time with him out in Frisco, I guess 563 00:28:56,080 --> 00:29:01,480 Speaker 3: or yeahs it? And you know there is a vibe there, 564 00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:06,160 Speaker 3: you know, on paper. Not sure if they've got the 565 00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:10,440 Speaker 3: juice to make a run at the Eagles, but they're 566 00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:10,840 Speaker 3: into it. 567 00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:12,520 Speaker 4: At least they think something's going on. 568 00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:15,160 Speaker 3: And then obviously Washington, you know you've got the young 569 00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:18,000 Speaker 3: quarterback who you know, I thought C J. Stroud the 570 00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:20,760 Speaker 3: year before was kind of transcended. And then I'm like, way, 571 00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:24,280 Speaker 3: I think Jayden Daniel's rookie year was even more striking. 572 00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:28,720 Speaker 4: You know, they Dan Quinn, another. 573 00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:31,200 Speaker 3: Guy who is you know, very familiar with this crew, 574 00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:36,240 Speaker 3: just a really positive guy who establishes a great culture. 575 00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:39,320 Speaker 3: So you know, they look like a team that could 576 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:41,880 Speaker 3: be right in that mix. So I think, you know, 577 00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:44,160 Speaker 3: the Giants are gonna have to win close games. They're 578 00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:46,000 Speaker 3: going to have to you know, they've got those three 579 00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:48,360 Speaker 3: guys on the edge. You may get them all on 580 00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:51,640 Speaker 3: the field at times, you may have a rotation at times, 581 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:54,360 Speaker 3: but you know they're gonna have to make some plays 582 00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:58,880 Speaker 3: on defense fueled by you know, a furious pass rush, 583 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:02,480 Speaker 3: which you know I see a have to and then yeah, 584 00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:07,280 Speaker 3: just you know, figure out a way to be efficient 585 00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:12,120 Speaker 3: offensively and be really timely, you know, ideally get the 586 00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:14,680 Speaker 3: running game going a little bit. I shouldn't even mention that. 587 00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:16,760 Speaker 3: I just Giants fans don't want to hear me talking 588 00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:19,280 Speaker 3: about the running game and the Eagles. 589 00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:20,800 Speaker 4: It's just it's too soon, man. 590 00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:23,960 Speaker 3: I mean, like, what's a Giants fan doing on Super Sunday, 591 00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:27,640 Speaker 3: Like you know, stabbing their. 592 00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:31,040 Speaker 4: Hand with a you know ork and like. 593 00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:37,160 Speaker 3: Calling up like hard knocks clips and you know, throwing 594 00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:41,800 Speaker 3: their iPad like a frisbee. And yeah, you know it's 595 00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:45,640 Speaker 3: not a good subject. But listen, you know every season 596 00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:48,080 Speaker 3: is different. The hardest thing for me and I've been 597 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:50,680 Speaker 3: doing this, now what this will be your thirty six? 598 00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:52,320 Speaker 4: I guess you know. 599 00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:54,480 Speaker 3: I can look at teams on paper, I can look 600 00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:55,840 Speaker 3: at who they have, I can look at who the 601 00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:59,760 Speaker 3: coaches are. But chemistry and football is really hard to quantify. 602 00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:04,200 Speaker 3: It not like other sports. You're asking yourself and people 603 00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:07,479 Speaker 3: around you to do insane things. You know, let your 604 00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:11,000 Speaker 3: arm bend back two hundred and seventy degrees to make 605 00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:12,240 Speaker 3: a play, and. 606 00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:14,280 Speaker 4: You know, stuff that is not rational. 607 00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:18,160 Speaker 3: And so if you feel, if there's a feeling there, 608 00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:20,880 Speaker 3: whether it's your coaches or the people around you, or 609 00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:26,240 Speaker 3: some larger vibe and purpose, sometimes that can propel teams 610 00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:28,360 Speaker 3: a long way. And it's really really hard to quantify 611 00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:30,840 Speaker 3: and to know and so I'll try to go to 612 00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:33,480 Speaker 3: some trading camps and vibe it out the best I can. 613 00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:37,560 Speaker 3: But the cool thing about, you know, pro football, is 614 00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:40,120 Speaker 3: that really is year to year and you really don't know. 615 00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:42,720 Speaker 2: All right. Two more for Michael Silber before we say goodbye. 616 00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:44,480 Speaker 2: We appreciate the time today, and again go check out 617 00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:46,160 Speaker 2: his book. He had a lot of great stories in there. 618 00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:48,400 Speaker 2: There's even more if you go read the book. It 619 00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:51,400 Speaker 2: really is good. I always like to ask Michael, the AFC, 620 00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:52,560 Speaker 2: we kind of know what the good teams are going 621 00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:54,040 Speaker 2: to be. Just look who the quarterbacks are and what 622 00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:55,880 Speaker 2: teams are on and those teams are probably gonna be good. 623 00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:56,080 Speaker 4: Right. 624 00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:58,360 Speaker 2: NFC's a little bit more wide open. You don't have 625 00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:00,520 Speaker 2: that same level of quarterback playing the end. Are there 626 00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:03,720 Speaker 2: any teams in the NFC that you think are either 627 00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:05,400 Speaker 2: going to be a lot better than maybe some people 628 00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:08,040 Speaker 2: think and others that maybe had been good but you 629 00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:09,200 Speaker 2: think might take a step back? 630 00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:10,440 Speaker 4: Great question. 631 00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:14,320 Speaker 3: And look, if I mean statistically over at least twenty 632 00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:19,400 Speaker 3: five years, maybe longer, there's a fifty percent turnover in 633 00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:21,720 Speaker 3: the playoffs. And I agree with you on the AFC, 634 00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:27,480 Speaker 3: it seems more predictable now but history tells us there's 635 00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:29,120 Speaker 3: gonna be a lot of shuffling, and part of that 636 00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:31,520 Speaker 3: is the draft, all the communist stuff. 637 00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:33,560 Speaker 4: You can see my shirt making fun of. 638 00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:37,000 Speaker 3: Cal and representing that, representing the hammer and the sickle. 639 00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:39,800 Speaker 2: But you're in San Francisco, it makes sense. 640 00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:42,200 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I went to Cal. What a good due. 641 00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:45,280 Speaker 3: But yeah, I I you know, I did write a 642 00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:48,440 Speaker 3: column when I was at Yahoo during the lockout in 643 00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:52,440 Speaker 3: twenty eleven talking about how the NFL has a lot 644 00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:55,960 Speaker 3: of communist properties, and it's a long conversation that I 645 00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:58,280 Speaker 3: would stand by that, but yeah, that whole worst Shelby 646 00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:01,160 Speaker 3: first thing, and so so the first thing I would 647 00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:06,479 Speaker 3: say is I was with an NFL offensive coordinator drinking 648 00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:10,920 Speaker 3: beers the other night and he asked me how I 649 00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:12,680 Speaker 3: thought the forty nine ers were going to do, and 650 00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:16,440 Speaker 3: he was skeptical about their chances, and I said, have 651 00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:19,320 Speaker 3: you seen their schedule? And he kind of rolled his 652 00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:21,920 Speaker 3: eyes like, dude, you don't, which is true. You don't 653 00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:23,760 Speaker 3: know really who's going to be good. It's hard to 654 00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:25,920 Speaker 3: just look at a schedule. So I go, okay, well, 655 00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:28,479 Speaker 3: I'm just going to read all seventeen in order, and 656 00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:31,200 Speaker 3: I read it to him and he was like his 657 00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:34,840 Speaker 3: mouth was dropping, and he's like, they could go eleven 658 00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:38,040 Speaker 3: to six playing bad according to that schedule, you know. 659 00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:42,480 Speaker 2: So yeah, it's the exact opposite of the Giant schedule 660 00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:44,880 Speaker 2: when they're playing like every single playoff team in good 661 00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:45,920 Speaker 2: quarterback from last year. 662 00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:48,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, and we don't know, you know, you know, we 663 00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:51,240 Speaker 3: don't know if a game it gets the Titans or 664 00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:54,040 Speaker 3: the Saints, is going to be a walkover like it. 665 00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:56,000 Speaker 4: Seems but could be. 666 00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:00,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, so let's look, let's look at the NFC. I 667 00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:05,080 Speaker 3: do think the Falcons have some potential to pop. Part 668 00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:07,240 Speaker 3: of it's by faith and Raheem Morris and just you know, 669 00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:10,800 Speaker 3: they were you know, Pendick showed me, you know, remember 670 00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:13,560 Speaker 3: that fourth down pass to extend that game against Washington 671 00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:15,880 Speaker 3: with the playoffs on the line that night game. He 672 00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:17,680 Speaker 3: had two of them, but one of them he just 673 00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:20,520 Speaker 3: threaded in there. I was like, oh, whoa, I see 674 00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:24,160 Speaker 3: it with him, so, you know, whereas with McCarthy, I 675 00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:24,880 Speaker 3: haven't seen it. 676 00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:26,920 Speaker 4: So I'm a little bit more skeptical about the Vikings. 677 00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:29,359 Speaker 3: So yeah, I do think the Falcons could be a 678 00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:34,080 Speaker 3: team that is surprising. And you know, I hate myself 679 00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:37,279 Speaker 3: for saying this, but maybe the Cowboys, you know, I 680 00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:39,920 Speaker 3: just I'm going to try to honor the vibe there 681 00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:43,160 Speaker 3: and I could be totally mistaken, you know. And then 682 00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:46,560 Speaker 3: you look at the AFC and you're like, yeah, is 683 00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:49,960 Speaker 3: there going to be someone who kind of pops out, 684 00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:51,479 Speaker 3: you know. 685 00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:55,280 Speaker 4: And gives you some because you know, Denver kind. 686 00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:58,480 Speaker 3: Of did that last year, Cleveland did it the year before. 687 00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:03,520 Speaker 3: You know, there's some there's some usual suspects. I'm really though, 688 00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:07,960 Speaker 3: intrigued by these Steelers for sure, now especially I want 689 00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:13,520 Speaker 3: to see exactly how that plays out, and hopefully they 690 00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:15,480 Speaker 3: are right there in that mix just to make it 691 00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:16,080 Speaker 3: more fun. 692 00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:18,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that will be fun. All right, Michael, 693 00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:21,120 Speaker 2: final question for you. You've been doing this a long time. 694 00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:23,440 Speaker 2: I've been covering. I've been with the Giants since two 695 00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:28,200 Speaker 2: thousand and seven. Nice and we've seen NFL teams develop 696 00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:31,200 Speaker 2: young quarterbacks in a million different ways, and there's no 697 00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:33,719 Speaker 2: one way that all right, this is the only way 698 00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:35,879 Speaker 2: to do it. This always works. We've seen it work 699 00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:38,000 Speaker 2: where guys sit. We've seen a guy work where guys 700 00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:40,040 Speaker 2: get thrown in right away. The Giants are going to 701 00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:41,920 Speaker 2: go through this issue with Jackson dark, When is he 702 00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:44,239 Speaker 2: going to be ready? When do you get him in there? 703 00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:47,279 Speaker 2: How do you think, based on all your experience talking 704 00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:49,960 Speaker 2: to all these offensive coaches and stuff, what's the best 705 00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:52,560 Speaker 2: way to handle these young quarterbacks? Or is it really 706 00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:55,920 Speaker 2: so individualized to the player there's no way to talk 707 00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:56,840 Speaker 2: about it in general. 708 00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:00,880 Speaker 3: I mean, I come from an earlier era where almost 709 00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:03,520 Speaker 3: everyone struggled as a rookie when they did play, and 710 00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:05,960 Speaker 3: a lot of guys waited and it had good results. 711 00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:08,279 Speaker 3: And I could certainly point to some examples even to 712 00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:12,040 Speaker 3: this era where waiting was better. Mahomes got basically the 713 00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:15,560 Speaker 3: first year. I mean, looking back, it's like really, but 714 00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:19,359 Speaker 3: still it seemed to help. You know, Rogers obviously got 715 00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:24,400 Speaker 3: the three years, and then Jordan Love, although I wouldn't 716 00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:28,240 Speaker 3: the notion that it's like far Rogers Jordans. 717 00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:30,359 Speaker 2: I mean, well there yet he's not there yet. 718 00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:31,600 Speaker 4: No, no, no, he's not closed. 719 00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:35,319 Speaker 3: But you know he's doing okay, And so I do 720 00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:40,040 Speaker 3: think ideally you don't want to throw him in. And 721 00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:42,680 Speaker 3: you know, Marino was an anomaly, but look, you know 722 00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:44,040 Speaker 3: Matt Ryan was an anomaly. 723 00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:47,399 Speaker 4: Kind of Flago was pretty good, Stroud was really good. 724 00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:49,000 Speaker 4: And now Daniels was really good. 725 00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:52,239 Speaker 3: So I don't want to be you know that guy completely, 726 00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:57,400 Speaker 3: but I think ideally, you know, you are playing Russell 727 00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:00,799 Speaker 3: Wilson and you have Jamis too, So if that ends 728 00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:04,120 Speaker 3: up being if it ends up being Wilson, Jamis Dart 729 00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:09,120 Speaker 3: in my opinion, you know, try to see what you 730 00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:10,920 Speaker 3: have with your vets, because James has done a lot 731 00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:12,239 Speaker 3: of really cool things. 732 00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:14,080 Speaker 4: Too, you know. 733 00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:17,560 Speaker 3: The only thing, the only caveat is you know players know, 734 00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:22,959 Speaker 3: so if you are if you're in a situation where 735 00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:25,640 Speaker 3: just one guy in practice, it just it just looks 736 00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:30,080 Speaker 3: way way different over time and you're losing. I think 737 00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:33,239 Speaker 3: it's hard to tell the players, hey, we're gonna stick 738 00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:39,000 Speaker 3: with you know, the vet and at all costs. You 739 00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:43,200 Speaker 3: do have more credibility when it's Russell. He's a super 740 00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:47,359 Speaker 3: Bowl winner, you know, very very decorated player, almost one 741 00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:52,200 Speaker 3: second super Bowl, you know. And so I what I 742 00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:54,279 Speaker 3: don't like is when you say we're gonna stick with 743 00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:56,040 Speaker 3: the veteran no matter what, and then it's like he 744 00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:58,640 Speaker 3: has one bad game or you lose a couple and 745 00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:00,440 Speaker 3: you freak out and just put the rookie in. 746 00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:02,280 Speaker 4: I don't think that serves anybody. 747 00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:04,920 Speaker 3: Well, I think you try to stick with the veteran, 748 00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:09,040 Speaker 3: but you know, sometimes I mean, look, here's the all 749 00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:13,040 Speaker 3: time example. Anthony Lynn, who I thought did a really 750 00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:16,080 Speaker 3: good job as the Chargers head coach, had Toarrod Taylor, 751 00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:19,680 Speaker 3: who is as you know, respected as a guy for 752 00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:23,240 Speaker 3: his preparation and intelligence and the way he does things. 753 00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:24,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, we had a mirror. He was great. 754 00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:26,239 Speaker 4: We love him, Yeah, everyone loves him. 755 00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:28,520 Speaker 3: And he's he's either the best backup in the league 756 00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:30,880 Speaker 3: or you know, a lower level starter. 757 00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:33,560 Speaker 4: But he's like, Torod Taylor is a legit guy. 758 00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:36,360 Speaker 3: And they drafted Justin Herbert, and Anthony Lynn was like, 759 00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:39,680 Speaker 3: I'm gonna let Justin develop, and I'm going to have 760 00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:43,000 Speaker 3: Torod Taylor, you know, be the starter no matter what. 761 00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:45,719 Speaker 3: So they're getting ready to play a game and he's 762 00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:48,880 Speaker 3: got Toronto's a rib injury and the Charger team doctor 763 00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:52,319 Speaker 3: tries to give him a pain culling injection and punctures 764 00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:57,320 Speaker 3: his long I think something something bad happens, really bad, 765 00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:01,319 Speaker 3: and thankfully Trod Taylor is rushed to the hospital but 766 00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:03,640 Speaker 3: doesn't have any long term damage. You know, that's the 767 00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:08,120 Speaker 3: most important thing. But meanwhile, Justin Herbert, with ninety seconds 768 00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:12,440 Speaker 3: of notice. Literally is told you're starting today against the Chiefs, 769 00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:15,759 Speaker 3: by the way, and you know whoa and he gets 770 00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:17,799 Speaker 3: thrown into the kid plays really really well. 771 00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:20,440 Speaker 4: They almost win, and the next. 772 00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:23,759 Speaker 3: Week he plays well and Anthony Lynn keeps going okay, yeah, 773 00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:26,200 Speaker 3: but to Rod's by starter, and not only is he 774 00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:28,600 Speaker 3: trying to stick to his plan what he thinks is right, 775 00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:31,839 Speaker 3: I mean, it's not a great look if the team 776 00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:35,080 Speaker 3: doctor shoots the guy punctures his lung with a pain 777 00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:38,880 Speaker 3: color ejection and then he loses his job for good. 778 00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:41,640 Speaker 3: I mean like I'm like, please, don't let this guy 779 00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:44,719 Speaker 3: lose his job. But you know, after enough games of 780 00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:49,319 Speaker 3: this with Justin Herbert, Anthony's finally like, okay, I'm starting Justin, 781 00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:51,680 Speaker 3: you know, and it is what it is, So that 782 00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:53,960 Speaker 3: would be you know, if Jackson Dart looks as good 783 00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:58,160 Speaker 3: right away as Justin Herbert, then it's a different conversation, 784 00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:01,360 Speaker 3: by the way, as good as Russell Wilson as a rookie. 785 00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:06,680 Speaker 3: But yeah, I hope for the Giant's sake that you know, 786 00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:09,040 Speaker 3: it's Russell, And then I hope if they need a 787 00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:12,840 Speaker 3: stopgap or a fill in for injury or for some reason, 788 00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:17,880 Speaker 3: a longer term solution during the season. I hope they 789 00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:21,040 Speaker 3: would give Jamis a fair look because you know, he's 790 00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:22,239 Speaker 3: pretty good, and I. 791 00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:24,160 Speaker 2: Think they would. All Right, Michael, anything else about the 792 00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:25,839 Speaker 2: book you want the people to know, or anything else 793 00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:27,239 Speaker 2: you're up to that you're doing that you want the 794 00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:29,080 Speaker 2: people to know about. The floor is all yours? 795 00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:30,800 Speaker 4: The why is everything? 796 00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:34,360 Speaker 3: A story of football rivalry and revolution, available everywhere. 797 00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:37,840 Speaker 4: I think you'll love it. And yeah, no, I'm gonna write. 798 00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:39,560 Speaker 3: A couple more pieces for the athletic I'm going to 799 00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:41,759 Speaker 3: try to hide out a little bit, and then I'm 800 00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:45,120 Speaker 3: going to hit the cap circuit hard. Maybe I'll be 801 00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:48,960 Speaker 3: hanging out with you and Matty Burke on the sidelines, 802 00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:53,080 Speaker 3: you know. Check it out the quarterback follies. We'll have 803 00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:56,000 Speaker 3: to see how the schedule shakes out. Were you at 804 00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:57,919 Speaker 3: the London game in O seven, your first year? 805 00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:00,319 Speaker 2: I was at the London game in all seven. Yeah, 806 00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:03,400 Speaker 2: the the the great Cleo Lemon, Eli Manning duel with 807 00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:06,440 Speaker 2: Eli Manning with the with the scramble for the touchdown. Baby. 808 00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:10,560 Speaker 3: Never thought I was seeing a Super Bowl champion, you know, 809 00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:14,719 Speaker 3: in progress. But uh yeah, that was an ugly game, man, 810 00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:16,280 Speaker 3: that was that was game. 811 00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:16,960 Speaker 4: It was. 812 00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:20,680 Speaker 3: That was the first game in London at them and 813 00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:23,000 Speaker 3: I have not been back and I really hope a 814 00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:25,480 Speaker 3: guy end that streak this year for the Athletic working 815 00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:25,799 Speaker 3: on it. 816 00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:28,000 Speaker 4: But uh, that was just such a cool you know. 817 00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:30,680 Speaker 3: I spent the whole week out there and uh, yeah, 818 00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:34,040 Speaker 3: that was really really cool. So all right, well, thank 819 00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:37,440 Speaker 3: you for having me and yeah, The Why Is Everything 820 00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:39,120 Speaker 3: available everywhere from. 821 00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:41,279 Speaker 2: The Athletic Michael Silver, Mike, we appreciate the time. Thanks 822 00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:41,600 Speaker 2: so much. 823 00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:42,480 Speaker 4: Thanks a lot. 824 00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:45,480 Speaker 2: That's Mike Silver from the Athletic. Make sure you go 825 00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:47,640 Speaker 2: check out his new book, The Why Is Everything? A 826 00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:51,200 Speaker 2: story of football, rivalry and revolution. Great stuff from Mike. 827 00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:52,919 Speaker 2: Thank you for being with us in the Giants Little 828 00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:55,360 Speaker 2: podcast brought to you by Citizens Official Bank of the Giants. 829 00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:58,200 Speaker 2: Coming to you from our podcast studio, presented by Hackensack 830 00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:00,480 Speaker 2: and Mariney Health. Keep getting better for my Silver, I'm 831 00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:01,839 Speaker 2: John Schmolke. We'll see you next time.