Speaker 1: You're listening to Facing Evil, a production of iHeartRadio and
Speaker 1: Tenderfoot TV. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast
Speaker 1: are solely those of the individuals participating in the show
Speaker 1: and do not represent those of iHeartRadio or Tenderfoot TV.
Speaker 1: This podcast contains subject matter which may not be suitable
Speaker 1: for everyone. Listener discretion is advised. Today, we're picking up
Speaker 1: right where we left off on the previous episode. We're
Speaker 1: joined by Zach Levitt, producer and creator of the podcast
Speaker 1: Root of Evil. Last episode, we revealed what was left
Speaker 1: on the cutting room floor of Root of Evil, including
Speaker 1: new information about the true relationship between George Hodell and
Speaker 1: Fauna Hodel. We continue that conversation now.
Speaker 2: So we now know for a fact that George Hodell
Speaker 2: was not our mother's father, not the father.
Speaker 3: Nope.
Speaker 2: But wait for it, y'all. Wait for it, y'all. We
Speaker 2: know who her father is.
Speaker 3: We knew that George Hodel was not our mother's father
Speaker 3: in the year twenty eighteen. Yes, so, mister Zach Levitt,
Speaker 3: can you tell us and our listeners? Of course we know,
Speaker 3: but tell our listeners why that fact was not in
Speaker 3: Root of Evil.
Speaker 4: At the time. I was so upset about it not
Speaker 4: being in the podcast, and I wanted an opportunity to
Speaker 4: talk about it, and it was something that I thought
Speaker 4: about day and night for months and months and months.
Speaker 4: I was devastated, and I can use that word. I
Speaker 4: was devastated, absolutely, And I don't want to get ahead
Speaker 4: of the story, but I just I'm going to circle
Speaker 4: back in a second. But my point is that I
Speaker 4: wanted to talk about it so badly, even though I
Speaker 4: wasn't quite sure how to. And we spoke about it many,
Speaker 4: many times, and I could have come out on Twitter
Speaker 4: somewhere and said we found the results. George is not
Speaker 4: the father, but it wasn't my story to tell. And
Speaker 4: I knew that whoever revealed this news, it couldn't be
Speaker 4: me because I'm not a member of the family. You know,
Speaker 4: it was about your mother, so it was going to
Speaker 4: be the two of you that would reveal it. And
Speaker 4: I think Steve may have blogged something about it on
Speaker 4: his website. I can't I can't remember, but yes, So
Speaker 4: time went on and I saw the reaction that the
Speaker 4: audience had to the show, and you know, sometimes you
Speaker 4: don't want to fuck with that, yeah, right, And so
Speaker 4: I sort of said to myself, Okay, people love the show.
Speaker 4: Would it have been a better ending perhaps? Would it
Speaker 4: have provided closure to the family, Yes, yes, ye. Would
Speaker 4: it have prevented some possible bad feelings after the fact
Speaker 4: of well why didn't it get used? Absolutely? But you know,
Speaker 4: the audience doesn't know what they.
Speaker 5: Don't know, right, right, right.
Speaker 4: So you're always cutting things out. You're always always cutting
Speaker 4: things out of a story. There's this term don't kill
Speaker 4: don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, right, and
Speaker 4: and sometimes it's a good thing. If you're losing amazing
Speaker 4: moments from a show, it can be a good thing
Speaker 4: because that means that, you know, you got to cut
Speaker 4: it down for clarity or whatever the case may be.
Speaker 4: And whatever's left is the really good stuff. And so
Speaker 4: I said to myself, Okay, people have responded, they love
Speaker 4: the show. The great stuff is in there. Move on
Speaker 4: with your life, which it took me a while. We know, yes,
Speaker 4: we do know, we know now why wasn't it in there?
Speaker 2: Tell us this is the question.
Speaker 4: As everybody knows. And we began talking about making the
Speaker 4: show and what led to making the show, that this
Speaker 4: was the sister podcast or the shoulder content.
Speaker 5: Whatever, companion podcast.
Speaker 4: Yeah, companion podcast to the TNT show I Am the Knight,
Speaker 4: which was made by Patty Jenkins, who is an incredible
Speaker 4: director who directed Wonder Woman and Monster Right. Yeah, and
Speaker 4: so I said, holy shit, Okay, I'm going to be
Speaker 4: working on a podcast where you know, the person putting
Speaker 4: the show together is a massive director and her husband.
Speaker 4: Pretty cool.
Speaker 5: Pretty cool.
Speaker 4: And of course going back to this idea of my
Speaker 4: first call with Sam when he mentioned, hey, the girls
Speaker 4: have these profiles of their DNA and Fauna's DNA on
Speaker 4: twenty three and meter. But I told him, don't go
Speaker 4: forward with anything until you talk to Zach and he
Speaker 4: starts doing the podcast. Now fast forward to eight months
Speaker 4: later whatever it was, where I now have the results
Speaker 4: of that DNA test that they didn't really know about.
Speaker 4: They were in the same boat as I was with
Speaker 4: not really understanding it and okay, twenty three ae meters,
Speaker 4: what is it going to tell you? No, we took
Speaker 4: it an extra step further. We put it on this
Speaker 4: other website which revealed whether Fauna was a product of
Speaker 4: incest unbeknownst to anybody. You know, this is just me
Speaker 4: making the story that I wanted to make. We have
Speaker 4: those results, and I was given to TNT's credit and
Speaker 4: everybody else's credit carte blanche to make the story that
Speaker 4: I wanted to make, and we did that unbeknownst to them.
Speaker 4: We found the results and we recorded those results. And
Speaker 4: once the people putting together I Am the Knight heard that,
Speaker 4: I think it became an issue. Well I shouldn't say
Speaker 4: I think it became an issue because the podcast was
Speaker 4: being released around the same time as the TV show, right,
Speaker 4: sister content companion podcast whatever. And that question of who
Speaker 4: Fauna's father was, whether it was George or not, is
Speaker 4: a theme in the I Am the Night.
Speaker 3: Show, Yeah, which is inspired loosely inspired by Mom's life,
Speaker 3: but yeah.
Speaker 4: Ours was the true story the documentary, So that theme
Speaker 4: of who Fauna's father was was a George is and
Speaker 4: I don't remember the show, but it certainly comes up
Speaker 4: and is sort of left unanswered.
Speaker 5: But that's where it leaves you thinking that George's Mom's father.
Speaker 2: That's where it ends. We should say yeah.
Speaker 4: Exactly, which is certainly more interesting and goes along with
Speaker 4: the crazy story and yeah, but we have the answer, right,
Speaker 4: We actually have the answer now, Yeah, and we're going
Speaker 4: to put it out there and everybody's going to hear it,
Speaker 4: and we're going to have some closure for the actual
Speaker 4: family that inspired this story. And that was always my motivation.
Speaker 4: It had nothing to do and I say this in
Speaker 4: all sincerity. For me, it was like, I knew it
Speaker 4: would be an interesting moment for the audience, but it
Speaker 4: was about providing closure to all of you who were
Speaker 4: so generous with your time and emotions and lives and
Speaker 4: all these things. And I wanted to give that to
Speaker 4: all of you. I really wanted to, and we did,
Speaker 4: and we gave you that moment. And then I hear
Speaker 4: you need to take that out of the end of
Speaker 4: the show. I'm like, wait, what you have to take
Speaker 4: that out of the end of the show. It's going
Speaker 4: to and these are my words, this is not anybody
Speaker 4: else's words. It's going to potentially upcut the fictionalized version
Speaker 4: because we put it out there that there is no answer,
Speaker 4: and now if there is an answer, it's going to
Speaker 4: upcut it. And so when I heard that, I was floridite.
Speaker 4: So I sent the results. I sent all of this
Speaker 4: other evidence that I had gathered that repts. Yeah, all
Speaker 4: the receipts along the way there were articles written saying
Speaker 4: that George was not the father, and you know, nobody
Speaker 4: had had the proof that we had, but it had
Speaker 4: been speculated on for for years. And if anything, this
Speaker 4: is going to help the show, right, Like here, here
Speaker 4: was my sort of pitch. You know, we've we've agreed
Speaker 4: to tell this nonfiction this this this documentary story. We
Speaker 4: have it. There's this other story that is slightly you know,
Speaker 4: leaves things sort of out there in the ether. Why
Speaker 4: can't they both live together? And really the story is okay,
Speaker 4: we picked up where I Am the Night left off, right.
Speaker 4: Patty did tell me in in that conversation, you know,
Speaker 4: talk about this, tell tell this story. It just wasn't
Speaker 4: the right time for the show. And in fact, the
Speaker 4: first time I heard about DNA was from the showrunner.
Speaker 5: So you were very confused.
Speaker 4: Right, My sort of thought was, isn't this a great story? Like,
Speaker 4: isn't this a good story? We're providing the family closure.
Speaker 4: It can be both, it can be here's the real story,
Speaker 4: here's the fictionalized story. They're both great. If they love
Speaker 4: the limited series I Am the Night, that will drive
Speaker 4: them to the podcast to hear more or vice versa.
Speaker 4: If they love Root of Evil. They'll go to the
Speaker 4: TV show and watch the show, and can't this moment live,
Speaker 4: you know, for the sake of the family members and
Speaker 4: the audience and all of that. And to my utter disappointment,
Speaker 4: the answer was no. And so I do have to
Speaker 4: say this, and I have to reiterate this. The process
Speaker 4: of working with TNT and with everybody else was amazing.
Speaker 4: From start to finish. They were hands off. They let
Speaker 4: me tell the story, they were hearing rough cuts. They
Speaker 4: knew how good it was going to be, or I
Speaker 4: shouldn't say that. They knew that it had the potential
Speaker 4: to be, to be interesting, to be big, and they
Speaker 4: they let me be. But there was this one moment
Speaker 4: where I think Patty decided that, you know, we don't
Speaker 4: want to have that on. It's it's not going to
Speaker 4: serve the show. I am the Knight in a meaningful way.
Speaker 4: And and in her defense, I totally get that I
Speaker 4: would have done the exact same thing if it were
Speaker 4: my show, because you don't want anything to take away
Speaker 4: from your show. And of course they're thinking from the
Speaker 4: very beginning, was you know this podcast?
Speaker 3: Like they had no idea?
Speaker 4: Yeah, oh nobody did. And I didn't have any idea,
Speaker 4: but but they, you know, it was, Okay, we're gonna
Speaker 4: we're gonna drive an audience to the TV show. And
Speaker 4: if we're going to do that, why would we want
Speaker 4: the listeners of Root of Evil to have this information
Speaker 4: in their minds as they're watching the TV show. It
Speaker 4: will their interpretation of the story for the TV show
Speaker 4: in a negative way. And I totally get that. Yeah,
Speaker 4: I totally get that, especially from a director's perspective, that
Speaker 4: is the last problem you want. So I don't fault
Speaker 4: Patty or Sam or anybody in any way, shape or form.
Speaker 4: They did what was right for their show, which there
Speaker 4: would be no podcast if it weren't for that TV show.
Speaker 4: So I think that that is a really important point
Speaker 4: to make. And I'm not you know, just trying to
Speaker 4: be you know, magnanimous in any way like that. That
Speaker 4: is truly how I feel like if I were if
Speaker 4: the shoe were on the other foot, I would have
Speaker 4: probably done the exact same thing, because you don't want
Speaker 4: anything messing with your story, and it could have messed
Speaker 4: with the story. Now that being said, it fucked me up,
Speaker 4: I know, yes, I know, because not only did it
Speaker 4: pull the teeth out of this story that I had
Speaker 4: built up until that point, and what the hell am
Speaker 4: I going to do? And now it's going to fall flat.
Speaker 4: It's just going to be this, you know, moment with
Speaker 4: everybody together and emoting. We don't have any real information
Speaker 4: as far as George Hode, I mean, George Hodell is
Speaker 4: sort of, you know, this looming figure in the entire series. Yes,
Speaker 4: so not only can we bring the family together, but
Speaker 4: we can answer this question and really just tie up
Speaker 4: every loose end in this moment. And I had to
Speaker 4: convince myself that Shita life is loose. Ends don't always
Speaker 4: get tied up. They just sort of stay loose and
Speaker 4: you got to live with it. But it really really
Speaker 4: messed me up for a while as far as feeling
Speaker 4: so upset that that wasn't going to be there. But
Speaker 4: more so than anything, it was telling the family I
Speaker 4: can't put this.
Speaker 5: In yeah, that your hands are tied, I.
Speaker 4: Think, sort of explaining that this is not my decision.
Speaker 4: Like I fought for this. I had the DNA expert
Speaker 4: who I spoke to initially on the phone when we
Speaker 4: were talking with TNT and with the creators of I
Speaker 4: Am the Night. I had the DNA expert on to
Speaker 4: help make this case. Yeah, yeah, it wasn't to be
Speaker 4: And so I had to live with it. And it sucked.
Speaker 4: And I know it sucked even way more for you
Speaker 4: guys and for Steve and and love, peace and joy
Speaker 4: and fun of two and and uh, it sucked for
Speaker 4: everybody to not be able to have some closure to
Speaker 4: to that piece of the story, which I think they
Speaker 4: all felt. You know, it was going to be negative.
Speaker 4: George wasn't the father, but to be able to.
Speaker 5: Tell the public definitively tie that up, definitively to the public, no,
Speaker 5: he's not the father.
Speaker 4: To not be able to have that that stuck with me,
Speaker 4: I would say for more than a year. I couldn't
Speaker 4: get over that.
Speaker 5: You're just being real.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was truly a betrayal, you know, to the family.
Speaker 2: That's what we felt. And when we got that call
Speaker 2: from Patty, you know, saying that it wasn't going to
Speaker 2: be in I mean, we were devastated, but we were
Speaker 2: put in the middle, you know what I mean, And
Speaker 2: we said what we had to say because we wanted
Speaker 2: that in rud of evil, like you said, it was
Speaker 2: so powerful, it was so profound and it was the
Speaker 2: perfect ending to the true story. But like I told you,
Speaker 2: I'll never forget sitting in the car when we were
Speaker 2: going to the iHeartRadio Podcast Awards. It was the beginning
Speaker 2: of twenty twenty in January. Yeah, and I remember saying
Speaker 2: to you that Rude of Evil was your baby. I
Speaker 2: Am the Knight was Patty's baby. And you know, we're
Speaker 2: trying to make the both of you happy because there's
Speaker 2: that loyalty right to Patty, who brought Mom's you know
Speaker 2: movie to Fruition, you know, her lifelong dream.
Speaker 4: Right. I wouldn't have been making this podcast without her. Yeah,
Speaker 4: absolutely right right.
Speaker 3: I'll never forget having that conversation with Patty and with Sam.
Speaker 3: And of course after we fought for it and we
Speaker 3: realized we were losing the battle, Patty did tell us
Speaker 3: because she's you know, become Mohamma to us over the years,
Speaker 3: she told us, she said, you girls, this is your story.
Speaker 3: You can tell this story however you want to tell it,
Speaker 3: just not now. So that's why we're here today. That's
Speaker 3: why it's so apropos that we're telling the world with you, Zach,
Speaker 3: because we've even looking for a vehicle and trying to
Speaker 3: figure out how we were going to tell the world.
Speaker 3: One George Hodel is not our mother Fano Hodel's father,
Speaker 3: He's only her grandfather. And two we get to reveal
Speaker 3: to the world today who are Mom's biological father really was.
Speaker 3: And you were the one that was supposed to be
Speaker 3: here with Vett and I to tell the world.
Speaker 2: That absolutely and full circle, things happen the way they're
Speaker 2: supposed to happen. I truly believe that. And like Russia
Speaker 2: just said, you know, we started with you and we're
Speaker 2: going to end with you by sharing this, you know,
Speaker 2: this discovery that we've been wanting to know for so long.
Speaker 3: So with all of that being said, take you back right,
Speaker 3: So all of us before Mom died from breast cancer
Speaker 3: in September of twenty seventeen, our uncle Joy gifted all
Speaker 3: of us I swear twenty three and me needs to
Speaker 3: sponsor this episod, but gifted us all twenty three and
Speaker 3: meters DNA kids. So we all did it, including our mom,
Speaker 3: And that is how we got all of that, right,
Speaker 3: That's how we got That's how we figured out that
Speaker 3: George was not her father. Of course we didn't find
Speaker 3: that out till after Mom died. But fast forward, so
Speaker 3: twenty eighteen is when we all found out that George
Speaker 3: was not Mom's father. Fast forward to twenty twenty two.
Speaker 3: Both Vet and I get an alert, Hey, you have
Speaker 3: a new DNA relative, which that happens all the time,
Speaker 3: because there's you know, five thousand.
Speaker 5: Removed cousins whatever.
Speaker 3: We've been looking since twenty seventeen for anyone that he
Speaker 3: Vet and I are related to that are not related
Speaker 3: to the Hodels. We're talking because Peace and Joy did
Speaker 3: their DNA as well as Steve and F two. Love
Speaker 3: is the only one that didn't do it on that side.
Speaker 3: And so someone came up and it came up as
Speaker 3: like a close DNA relative. And this is August of
Speaker 3: twenty two two, right before we're going to leave for
Speaker 3: podcast movement. Our lives are changing, Facing Evil had just launched.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sitting in the beauty salon getting my hair
Speaker 2: done and Rash just sends me this message and I
Speaker 2: was like, holy shit, it was screenshots.
Speaker 3: And when I sent her the screenshot, I'm like, there's
Speaker 3: this guy named Mario Delo Sada who is a relative
Speaker 3: on Mom's side. All these things and I didn't realize
Speaker 3: when I sent her the screenshot because I logged in
Speaker 3: because I still have moms log in for her twenty
Speaker 3: three and meters. I logged in his mom after I
Speaker 3: sent her the screenshot. Took screen quick screenshots from moms
Speaker 3: because you can see more when it's your own profile.
Speaker 3: And it's like, I was Fana Hodel in that moment,
Speaker 3: and it said Fana Hodel's half sibling and not related
Speaker 3: to any of the Hodels, so all the Hodels are
Speaker 3: half siblings, so that gets even more complicated.
Speaker 5: But I was like, what right.
Speaker 3: It has no photo, just has a name and it
Speaker 3: says born nineteen fifty eight Mario del Sada, And I'm like.
Speaker 5: Oh my god, Oh my god, oh my god.
Speaker 3: We're literally just about to get on a plane to
Speaker 3: go to Dallas, Texas to go to podcast movement.
Speaker 5: And I did a deep dive.
Speaker 3: I googled every Mario de Losada you could find, and
Speaker 3: within about twenty minutes I found him on Facebook. And
Speaker 3: you know, he's gonna think I'm crazy by messaging him
Speaker 3: and being like, hey, you know I think you're related
Speaker 3: to us anyway, Long rabbit hole down. Within about an
Speaker 3: hour and a half, of us finding that original thing.
Speaker 3: I sent messages to Mario on Instagram, Facebook, twenty three
Speaker 3: and meters and then we got a message back from
Speaker 3: his sister named Judy de Losada.
Speaker 2: But in that hour and a half, you can imagine,
Speaker 2: you know, the anxiety, the surrealness, the like like you're
Speaker 2: on your show exactly exactly.
Speaker 3: And Duty messaged back and she said, I'm so sorry.
Speaker 3: Mario is on a flight, you know, to Atlanta, and they.
Speaker 5: All live in Canada. So I was like, yeah, there's
Speaker 5: no way.
Speaker 3: I'm like, I don't Annie was too pretty, and she's like, yep,
Speaker 3: that's him.
Speaker 5: He was born in nineteen fifty eight.
Speaker 3: And before she told me our grandfather's name, I had
Speaker 3: found it and I was.
Speaker 5: Like, oh my god, I think it's Gus de Losada.
Speaker 5: I think it's Gus de Losada. And I broke down
Speaker 5: in tears. You've it.
Speaker 3: Broke down in tears, and I told Judy, I said,
Speaker 3: I know you're going to google us as soon as
Speaker 3: you see all these messages. Please don't freak out, but
Speaker 3: you and Mario have just proven that mom one hundred
Speaker 3: million percent, that Mom was not the product of incest.
Speaker 5: By finding Mario and.
Speaker 2: In that moment, like for me, I was sitting in
Speaker 2: the you know, in the in the salon, it felt
Speaker 2: like the gates of heaven like just opened, and I
Speaker 2: could see my mom's face like just smiling with the biggest,
Speaker 2: brightest smile and such.
Speaker 4: A relief I can't even imagine.
Speaker 2: I was like Mom, I was like, Mama, we did it.
Speaker 2: We know, we know that fucker wasn't your dad. You
Speaker 2: know what I mean, because you know, when you think
Speaker 2: about it, you know, Mom searched her whole life right
Speaker 2: for her mother. She never puts that emphasis on finding
Speaker 2: her father because she was afraid of what she might
Speaker 2: find right exactly. So to get this news and to
Speaker 2: see these pictures in that moment was extraordinary and a
Speaker 2: what a gift.
Speaker 3: And we have to tell the world so that they know.
Speaker 3: Fana Hodel's father's name was august oracee Manuel Delo Saba,
Speaker 3: and he was born in nineteen twenty seven and sadly
Speaker 3: died in nineteen eighty. He had three children after Mom,
Speaker 3: one child before her. Actually, while we were at Podcast Movement,
Speaker 3: we face timed with them. We spoke with all of them,
Speaker 3: and they're all beautiful, gorgeous amazing souls.
Speaker 4: That's so cool.
Speaker 2: I have to tell one story too, because you know
Speaker 2: when we were speaking to the whole family, when we
Speaker 2: finally got on a video chat with the whole family,
Speaker 2: and I said, so, Mario, this is one of the
Speaker 2: you know, one of the brothers, Our's off brother, our uncle.
Speaker 2: I said, so, why now, why did you decide to
Speaker 2: go on twenty three and me now? And he goes, well,
Speaker 2: it was on.
Speaker 5: Sale on Amazon primeday, right, it.
Speaker 2: Was ninety nine random.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And I was like, thank you, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 5: August went by Gus.
Speaker 3: He had a beautiful relationship with his entire family accepted Mario,
Speaker 3: and Mario came out at a very young age. For
Speaker 3: all accounts and purposes, he was a beautiful human being,
Speaker 3: and he was Spanish and Ecuadorian and he lived in
Speaker 3: San Francisco.
Speaker 5: Like everything lined up. We found census, we found passports.
Speaker 3: Photos, photos, yes, which now we can post and share.
Speaker 5: And now we can tell the hotels.
Speaker 3: We haven't told them yet because we wanted to do
Speaker 3: it the right way.
Speaker 4: That is really exciting. So not only did we find
Speaker 4: out that George wasn't the father, but now we know
Speaker 4: who he actually is and that that is real.
Speaker 5: Closure, that is real close.
Speaker 2: Yes.
Speaker 3: Yes, So that first video call with the De Loosadas,
Speaker 3: our auntie Judy told us, she's like, so, you know,
Speaker 3: I watched the Doctor Phil show with you and Evet
Speaker 3: and your great uncle Steve, and he was trying to
Speaker 3: say that, you know, our dad raped your grandmother Tamar,
Speaker 3: and she was just like, there's no way. There's apps
Speaker 3: you know. She's like, she's like, there is no way.
Speaker 3: And I just want to put that out there that
Speaker 3: this was a one night encounter. None of us know
Speaker 3: what really happened. Everyone who is involved is not alive anymore.
Speaker 3: But I do want to say on behalf of the
Speaker 3: de Losadas that there's like, there's no way. Our father
Speaker 3: was a beautiful, loving, kind man. I just I just
Speaker 3: have to say that. That's what she told us, and
Speaker 3: we're like, yeah, sorry about sorry about that, sorry about
Speaker 3: doctor Phil, but we love doctor Phil obviously.
Speaker 4: Well yeah, I mean that was the information that everybody
Speaker 4: had at that time, you know, and now you have
Speaker 4: new information exactly. I was just going to say, how
Speaker 4: do you feel knowing who it is now?
Speaker 2: It's a piece within you know for me, you know,
Speaker 2: being the eldest. And I just have to say, from
Speaker 2: the time I was very young and hearing this story,
Speaker 2: I never accepted that. Ask me why, I don't know,
Speaker 2: It's just my personality. I didn't accept it. But you know,
Speaker 2: when Mom passed and we asked her, you know, did
Speaker 2: she believe that George was her father? And she said yes,
Speaker 2: that starts to resonate in your head that the possibility
Speaker 2: is very true. And you know, then to go on
Speaker 2: root of Evil and find out all of these things
Speaker 2: you just didn't know, you know, but to have a
Speaker 2: definitive answer of who it puts me at peace. But
Speaker 2: more so than me, Zach, I feel the peace in
Speaker 2: my mom's spirit.
Speaker 4: That's the gift, you know.
Speaker 3: I always thought that George was our mom's father because
Speaker 3: of all the questions that I had asked my grandmother
Speaker 3: tomorrow over the years, and Mom's evasiveness to talk about
Speaker 3: it and all of that, and obviously like to you know,
Speaker 3: a few days before Tamar died herself, she died in
Speaker 3: twenty fifteen, she said the same thing out.
Speaker 5: Loud, that she thought that George was the father.
Speaker 3: Our mom said it a few days before she died
Speaker 3: in twenty seventeen that she thought that George was the father,
Speaker 3: and the sad part is that he could have been.
Speaker 5: And so for me when I found out.
Speaker 3: Definitively that we knew who the father was, because we
Speaker 3: didn't know if it was John Houston Man Ray some
Speaker 3: random rumor at the Franklin Souden house.
Speaker 5: We had no idea.
Speaker 3: But I love the fact that we now know that
Speaker 3: there was this beautiful human and this beautiful family, and
Speaker 3: like we know where Mom got her kindness from. Like
Speaker 3: the Delo Sadas just have this oozing warmth and sincerity
Speaker 3: and kindness and supportiveness, and I'm like, oh, like just
Speaker 3: the breath.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, absolutely, it really is.
Speaker 3: We haven't met them, the Delosadas in person yet because
Speaker 3: they all live in Canada now, but we're in you know,
Speaker 3: we're in constant communication on social media.
Speaker 5: We got their blessing. We're like, hey, we're going to
Speaker 5: tell the world.
Speaker 3: They're like, yeah, like they only wish they could have
Speaker 3: met Mom. But we've told them just like we told you,
Speaker 3: you know, you know, Fana.
Speaker 2: Hodel, through the two of us, through us, through her girls, beautiful.
Speaker 4: I love that you were able to have that moment
Speaker 4: And now can you know see where the next chapter goes.
Speaker 2: We're just going to get right into this because you
Speaker 2: know you've talked about throughout this podcast how you hate
Speaker 2: your voice, which we don't understand why why that is,
Speaker 2: but we know you have a fabulous voice, and you
Speaker 2: just have to tell us about this new podcast that
Speaker 2: you are hosting called the Set about the Dirty thirty.
Speaker 2: I know that it's said in the late eighties nineties
Speaker 2: about the whole Wild Kingdom, the Crack Empire, the heroin
Speaker 2: the stage houses. I mean, get into is Zach tell us.
Speaker 4: Thank you for the opportunity to talk about it. I mean,
Speaker 4: the biggest scandal in NYPD history. And I was actually
Speaker 4: doing research for season four of another show that I
Speaker 4: have done called Gangster Capitalism. We just came off of
Speaker 4: season three, which was about Jerry Folwell Junior and Liberty University,
Speaker 4: which was a very rewarding process for me, advocating on
Speaker 4: behalf of sexual violence survivors on campus where the school
Speaker 4: covered it up, and I was able to connect them
Speaker 4: with an attorney who ended up suing the school on
Speaker 4: behalf of twenty two. Jane Does sued the school successfully
Speaker 4: and wowow, So it was a really rewarding process, and
Speaker 4: the show did really well, and I was looking for
Speaker 4: a topic for the fourth season, and I was literally
Speaker 4: googling corrupt industries, what will come up? And you know,
Speaker 4: I was doing all sorts of research and pharma and
Speaker 4: the auto industry and not saying that they're corrupt as
Speaker 4: a whole, but specific stories that I was sort of
Speaker 4: circling around. And I went down the rabbit hole and
Speaker 4: I realized that there was this precinct, the thirtieth Precinct
Speaker 4: in the NYPD, which is located in West Harlem in
Speaker 4: the northern northwestern end of Manhattan during the height of
Speaker 4: the crack epidemic. It was a level of corruption that
Speaker 4: I had never imagined or even heard about, cops actually
Speaker 4: robbing drug dealers and then selling the stolen drugs back
Speaker 4: to friendly drug dealers, so they were essentially drug dealers themselves.
Speaker 4: The next step that I always do in this situation is, HM,
Speaker 4: what's been done on this? Because for sure, there have
Speaker 4: been ten documentaries about this already made, and I'm so
Speaker 4: late to the game because it's thirty years later, and
Speaker 4: to my utter disbelief and happiness, nothing the story had
Speaker 4: never been told. And I said Holy shit, how has
Speaker 4: this story never been told in narrative form other than
Speaker 4: you know, sort of the news writers at the time
Speaker 4: who were on the police beat, just reporting the news
Speaker 4: of the day. And I thought to myself, Wow, this
Speaker 4: this could be really big. And what I often do
Speaker 4: in these situations is I bite off way more than
Speaker 4: I can chew. And I'm thinking this could be a
Speaker 4: story about New York City itself and policing, and you know,
Speaker 4: told through the prism of this one precinct and this
Speaker 4: commission that was formed, the MOLN Commission that was formed
Speaker 4: to look into police corruption. If I can get people
Speaker 4: to talk, it could be a highly entertaining show. But
Speaker 4: it also could be and this is where my mind
Speaker 4: always goes, it could also teach us sort of what
Speaker 4: can happen, I guess when policing goes wrong, you know.
Speaker 5: The ultimate power interruption?
Speaker 4: Yeah, what can happen when a police department does not
Speaker 4: police itself? And so I thought that that question is
Speaker 4: one worthy of diving into and one that should never
Speaker 4: go away, right because what happened with the Dirty thirty
Speaker 4: in New York City and the crack era is exactly
Speaker 4: what happens when the police department fails to police itself,
Speaker 4: and so I began doing my research, and I connected
Speaker 4: with the attorney of who I thought could be the
Speaker 4: main character or sort of the person through whose eyes
Speaker 4: a lot of this would would be seen, and who
Speaker 4: was taken for an insane ride himself at Barry Brown.
Speaker 4: And I connected with Barry Brown. And Barry Brown was
Speaker 4: a fan of the basketball documentaries that I had done,
Speaker 4: so he knew who I was, and we hit it off,
Speaker 4: and he had never really told his story, and he
Speaker 4: was willing to tell it, and so we developed a
Speaker 4: relationship in much the same way that the two of
Speaker 4: you and I developed our relationship, and he trusted me
Speaker 4: with it. And in addition to Barry, I ended up
Speaker 4: connecting with most of the surviving members of the Malan Commission,
Speaker 4: who was impaneled to investigate police corruption at the time
Speaker 4: and happened upon this precinct that was filled with corruption
Speaker 4: and opened it up for the world to see. So
Speaker 4: I connected with all of them, including the investigators, and
Speaker 4: then I connected with federal and state prosecutors, and the
Speaker 4: state prosecutors were working for Robert Morgenthaugh at the time,
Speaker 4: who was the most powerful DA in the country known
Speaker 4: as the Boss, with this incredible reputation, and Mary Joe
Speaker 4: White was the US Attorney and there became this enormous
Speaker 4: turf war that happened behind the scenes. I ended up
Speaker 4: getting some of the cops who were convicted of corruption.
Speaker 4: So it's a really round story. And for the first
Speaker 4: time I think it's I don't think it's a stretch.
Speaker 4: It's not a stretch. It's the truth to say that
Speaker 4: this is the first time that this story is being
Speaker 4: told by the people who lived it. And it is
Speaker 4: cops dealing drugs, it's cops perjuring themselves. It is the
Speaker 4: police department reacting to it and cleaning things up. It
Speaker 4: is the turf war that went on behind the scenes
Speaker 4: between Robert Morgenthal, the Boss, the DA and the Molon
Speaker 4: Commission and the Southern District of New York and that
Speaker 4: story has never been told. And the pawn who is
Speaker 4: in the middle of all of it, who gets fucked over,
Speaker 4: And it is all told in this landscape of the
Speaker 4: crack epidemic and what West Harlem and other communities were
Speaker 4: put through because these police were not out policing, they
Speaker 4: were in it for themselves. There are all these crazy moments. Yeah,
Speaker 4: but at the end of the day, it's a story
Speaker 4: that I think could happen in any city when the
Speaker 4: police department does not police itself. Yet this is a
Speaker 4: uniquely New York story as well, and so I hope
Speaker 4: that it will really resonate with the audience. I think
Speaker 4: it will.
Speaker 5: It will.
Speaker 2: Can you tell our listeners exactly when it's going to launch?
Speaker 4: Yeah, So the first three episodes are coming out on
Speaker 4: June fourteenth. Again, it's called the Set Set and you'll
Speaker 4: find out what that means as you listen, and it
Speaker 4: will be ten episodes released weekly. You can also binge
Speaker 4: it on the Odyssey app.
Speaker 3: Well, we are so excited and honored to listen to it,
Speaker 3: to promote it, to do all the things.
Speaker 2: All the things, Yes, Zach, from the bottom of our hearts,
Speaker 2: you know you. You will forever be our brother from
Speaker 2: another mother. We love you. You are our family, You
Speaker 2: are o'hanna, and we are forever grateful for you and
Speaker 2: to you. So thank you so much again for being
Speaker 2: with us today. It was it was the reunion of
Speaker 2: a lifetime.
Speaker 4: Thank you, and and right back at you, Vet, I mean,
Speaker 4: I feel the same way about the both of you.
Speaker 4: I'm so happy to see you doing what you love
Speaker 4: to do. And thank you for having me on. Thank
Speaker 4: you for you know, for having this for them to
Speaker 4: talk about all these things, about this moment in our
Speaker 4: lives where we came together and and uh and and
Speaker 4: and did this thing and and uh and of course
Speaker 4: thank you for allowing me to talk about the set.
Speaker 4: I will be a fan of both of you forever.
Speaker 2: Today's message of hope and healing goes out to our mama,
Speaker 2: Fauna Fanna Hodel. Her life's mission has become our mission
Speaker 2: to share stories of how we can all overcome and
Speaker 2: be the light.
Speaker 3: Our emua also goes out to our guests today, mister
Speaker 3: Zach Lovett, who our mother would have loved with every
Speaker 3: ounce of her heart and soul just like we do,
Speaker 3: because he took her life's work and he turned it
Speaker 3: into a true masterpiece of storytelling. We are forever grateful
Speaker 3: for the gift that Zach and our mom have given us.
Speaker 2: It is all about the storytelling, and one thing that
Speaker 2: we know for sure is we can all learn from
Speaker 2: one another and move onward and upward. Emua ema emua.
Speaker 5: Well, that's our show for today.
Speaker 3: We'd love to hear what you thought about today's discussion
Speaker 3: and if there's a case you'd like for us to cover.
Speaker 2: Find us on social media or email us at facingebl
Speaker 2: pod at Tenderfoot dot tv.
Speaker 3: And one small request if you haven't already, please find
Speaker 3: us on iTunes and give us a good rating and
Speaker 3: a good review. If you like what we do, your
Speaker 3: support is always cherished until next time.
Speaker 2: Aloha.
Speaker 1: Facing Evil is a production of iHeartRadio and Tenderfoot TV.
Speaker 1: The show is hosted by Russia Pacuerero in a Vetchintile,
Speaker 1: Matt Frederick and Alex Williams, our executive producers on behalf
Speaker 1: of iHeart Radio, with producers Trevor Young and Jesse Funk,
Speaker 1: Donald albright In Payne Lindsay our executive producers on behalf
Speaker 1: of Tenderfoot TV, alongside producer Tracy Kaplan. Our researcher is
Speaker 1: Carolyn Talmage. Original music by Makeup and Vanity Set. Find
Speaker 1: us on social media or email us at Facingevilpod at
Speaker 1: Tenderfoot dot tv. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio or Tenderfoot TV,
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