WEBVTT - PRESSURE: PRIVILEGE OR BURDEN? 0:00:01.480 --> 0:00:05.119 Pressure. Is it a privilege or more of a burden? 0:00:05.480 --> 0:00:07.520 Where does it come from? How do we handle it? 0:00:07.680 --> 0:00:11.400 How do we create self belief and confidence that's resilient. 0:00:12.000 --> 0:00:16.239 How do we make complicated things sound simple? When should 0:00:16.239 --> 0:00:19.880 we communicate using lots of words or a few words, 0:00:19.960 --> 0:00:23.960 or no words just a hug. All these things we 0:00:24.000 --> 0:00:27.400 get into with my guests, great friend and ESPN Tennis 0:00:27.440 --> 0:00:32.400 colleague Darren Cahill. Now, Darren has mastered the art of coaching, 0:00:32.800 --> 0:00:35.360 grew up watching his dad. A legend in Aussie rules 0:00:35.400 --> 0:00:38.800 football coaching. He's guided three number one ranked players to 0:00:38.840 --> 0:00:43.400 Grand Slam titles, Laten Hewitt, Andre Agassi and currently Simona Hallem. 0:00:43.440 --> 0:00:46.800 He's also worked with many other top players. His advice 0:00:46.920 --> 0:00:50.160 is constantly sought out by players and coaches all over 0:00:50.200 --> 0:00:52.880 the world. Plus he's one of the best analysts in 0:00:52.960 --> 0:00:58.120 TV sports. This conversation was mostly before the US Open. 0:00:58.440 --> 0:01:01.200 Then we caught our bread circle back a couple of 0:01:01.240 --> 0:01:04.120 days after the Grand Slam quest of Novak Djokovic and 0:01:04.200 --> 0:01:08.160 the Electric Women's final with Emirata and Leela Fernandez. That's 0:01:08.160 --> 0:01:11.160 at the end of the episode. So this is a 0:01:11.280 --> 0:01:16.080 treat for tennis fans and Darren's ideas are as valuable 0:01:16.120 --> 0:01:19.160 in everyday life, in your workplace, or if you want 0:01:19.200 --> 0:01:26.080 to coach your kids. Today, I've got Darren Killer Kjo. So, Darren, 0:01:26.280 --> 0:01:30.600 how would you describe the effects of pressure on the 0:01:30.640 --> 0:01:34.759 mind of an athlete? We start with the easy one. 0:01:34.800 --> 0:01:40.480 See if that easy? Oh yeah? Really, Look, it's all encompassing, really, 0:01:40.520 --> 0:01:43.440 because there are so many different factors that go into pressure, 0:01:43.480 --> 0:01:45.720 And I think the main one is the pressure that 0:01:45.760 --> 0:01:49.560 you put on yourself with the expectation. And every kid 0:01:49.640 --> 0:01:53.040 has a dream of achieving something pretty special in sport, 0:01:53.320 --> 0:01:56.240 and you dream about that NonStop till you get to 0:01:56.280 --> 0:01:58.680 a certain point where that dream might even be possible, 0:01:58.800 --> 0:02:02.080 might even be capable for the point zero zero zero 0:02:02.160 --> 0:02:06.880 one of those youngsters growing up. So it's the expectations 0:02:06.880 --> 0:02:08.880 you put on yourself. It's the pressure you feel from 0:02:08.919 --> 0:02:11.000 the people around you. It could be from your parents, 0:02:11.000 --> 0:02:13.040 it could be from new coaches, it could be from 0:02:13.240 --> 0:02:18.080 outward sources. And I can frame it in a little 0:02:18.120 --> 0:02:21.080 story that I have with Simona and her struggles to 0:02:21.080 --> 0:02:22.920 break through and become the number one player in the 0:02:22.919 --> 0:02:26.359 world and to win her first ever major. She lost 0:02:26.360 --> 0:02:28.880 a couple of crushing finals, both at the French Open, 0:02:28.919 --> 0:02:31.800 one to Sharaff Ober and one to Ostar Panco. And 0:02:31.840 --> 0:02:35.600 I remember that pressure after losing to Ostar Panco, the 0:02:35.639 --> 0:02:39.800 pressure of failing in the big moment and it really 0:02:39.800 --> 0:02:42.920 getting to her and the way she reacted after losing 0:02:42.919 --> 0:02:46.480 that two thousand and seventeen Roland Garris's final, and we 0:02:46.480 --> 0:02:48.680 were sitting in a locker room afterwards and we just 0:02:48.680 --> 0:02:50.200 shut the door. It's just her and I were just 0:02:50.240 --> 0:02:52.799 sitting on the floor and she was in tears, and 0:02:52.840 --> 0:02:55.080 I just remember her putting her head on my shoulders 0:02:55.160 --> 0:02:57.560 and just letting it all out for about thirty minutes. 0:02:59.320 --> 0:03:01.080 And I didn't really, you know, what to say. Normally 0:03:01.120 --> 0:03:03.440 I'm okay with finding the words, and I didn't have 0:03:03.440 --> 0:03:06.440 any words to give her, and all I could think 0:03:06.480 --> 0:03:09.799 about was the suffering that she was going through. And 0:03:09.800 --> 0:03:11.720 in the sport, you know, two people go out there. 0:03:11.760 --> 0:03:13.880 One person comes off and winning, one person comes off 0:03:13.880 --> 0:03:17.120 a loser, and you do everything you can to prepare 0:03:17.160 --> 0:03:19.880 the athlete in the right way and to give them 0:03:19.880 --> 0:03:24.639 the best chance of possibly winning. The following year, we 0:03:24.720 --> 0:03:27.120 get to the French Open final again and right before 0:03:27.200 --> 0:03:31.799 the final, a really powerful Romanian person and a good 0:03:31.800 --> 0:03:34.600 friend of Simona is certainly somewhat part of the team. 0:03:34.800 --> 0:03:38.320 Came up to me and said, we're ready, We're going 0:03:38.360 --> 0:03:41.520 to win this. And I said to him, yeah, I 0:03:41.560 --> 0:03:43.600 think so. You know, Simona is ready. She's playing great 0:03:43.600 --> 0:03:47.560 tennis and she's she's fired up and playing a person 0:03:47.600 --> 0:03:49.600 that she's been a couple of times before. And Sloane 0:03:49.600 --> 0:03:53.080 Stevens and yeah, I think she's feeling great. He goes, no, no, no, 0:03:53.720 --> 0:03:58.240 we need this. You mind about Simona. The country needs this. 0:03:58.440 --> 0:04:01.880 Twenty million people need this. This is really important for 0:04:02.000 --> 0:04:05.320 Romania that she wins this match. And I'm thinking to myself, 0:04:05.920 --> 0:04:09.080 shot a lot. You know, this is a big moment, 0:04:09.120 --> 0:04:11.560 but it hit highly. I got goose bumps. It hits 0:04:11.600 --> 0:04:15.120 home that, Okay, this is important for us and really 0:04:15.160 --> 0:04:19.040 important for Simona, but there are bigger things that play here, 0:04:19.080 --> 0:04:22.120 and and you know she's she's got to find a 0:04:22.160 --> 0:04:24.320 way to get through this. And so if I am 0:04:24.360 --> 0:04:26.960 feeling the pressure, then you know what is she feeling 0:04:27.400 --> 0:04:31.160 in those size five shoes that she wears and going 0:04:31.160 --> 0:04:34.040 out there and trying to get this done. So she 0:04:34.080 --> 0:04:37.560 has remarkable strength to be able to deal with that 0:04:37.600 --> 0:04:39.960 pressure that she puts on herself, which is enormous anyway, 0:04:40.279 --> 0:04:42.400 and then to deal with that outward pressure that she 0:04:42.520 --> 0:04:45.000 felt from a loving country that wanted her to get 0:04:45.000 --> 0:04:48.839 over mine and win her first major incredible mental strength. 0:04:49.040 --> 0:04:51.599 And some people can deal with it, some people can't. 0:04:51.640 --> 0:04:53.920 Some people rise up to the challenge and play their 0:04:54.000 --> 0:04:58.520 very best tennis. Some people cower and freeze in the moment, 0:04:58.720 --> 0:05:00.839 and it's just a natural and it's sort of what 0:05:00.920 --> 0:05:04.400 separates the great from the good. It's a beautiful story 0:05:04.400 --> 0:05:06.200 with a happy ending, as she did get that trophy 0:05:06.200 --> 0:05:08.280 in Paris and make the twenty million people happy, and 0:05:08.560 --> 0:05:10.240 obviously a tree of a life line dream and has 0:05:10.240 --> 0:05:13.479 gone on to do that as well. Everybody has their 0:05:13.520 --> 0:05:17.919 ways of putting themselves in the zone, and that could 0:05:17.920 --> 0:05:21.440 be from the training, it could be from belief, it 0:05:21.520 --> 0:05:24.560 could be from my My big thing when I played 0:05:24.760 --> 0:05:27.159 was I always used to think of myself as a 0:05:27.160 --> 0:05:29.840 bit of a racehorse and putting the blinkers on. And 0:05:29.880 --> 0:05:33.360 so whilst tennis is played between the lines, because it's 0:05:33.360 --> 0:05:35.320 only two people out there and you had this massive, 0:05:35.360 --> 0:05:39.000 big stadium. If you paid too much attention to everything 0:05:39.000 --> 0:05:41.760 that was going on around the stadium, my mind would 0:05:41.800 --> 0:05:45.040 drift and wanders, So before every single point, I always 0:05:45.200 --> 0:05:47.720 used to think of myself as being this racehorse, and 0:05:47.760 --> 0:05:50.000 I had the blinkers on and everything would just focus 0:05:50.080 --> 0:05:51.880 into the person on the other side of the court. 0:05:51.960 --> 0:05:55.240 So all the peripheral stuff sort of faded away, and 0:05:55.480 --> 0:05:57.840 that really helped me, especially in the big moments, and 0:05:58.160 --> 0:06:01.279 I was just concentrating on what was in front of me. 0:06:01.600 --> 0:06:05.200 The thing about coaching is everybody is different. Everybody has 0:06:05.200 --> 0:06:08.640 different strengths and weaknesses, and to be a really effective coach, 0:06:08.680 --> 0:06:10.840 you've got to work out what they are, and then 0:06:10.880 --> 0:06:13.159 you have to build the strengths in what the players 0:06:13.160 --> 0:06:15.120 have to It's not all about focusing on the weaknesses 0:06:15.200 --> 0:06:18.360 being a coach. It's more about building the strengths. We'll 0:06:18.360 --> 0:06:20.919 get into the art of tennis coaching, which you do 0:06:20.960 --> 0:06:23.839 as well as anyone has ever done, including coaching some 0:06:23.960 --> 0:06:27.880 very strong personalities and two other world number ones besides Simona. 0:06:28.120 --> 0:06:31.120 But the interesting thing that's so compelling about tennis staring 0:06:31.160 --> 0:06:36.000 for me is is that that mental battle and the 0:06:36.040 --> 0:06:38.839 struggle within oneself, you see it played out. It can 0:06:38.920 --> 0:06:40.880 be beautiful when it's overcome. It can be hard to 0:06:40.920 --> 0:06:44.080 watch sometimes when a player is fighting themselves, it seems 0:06:44.080 --> 0:06:46.120 that they're fighting their team in the box as well 0:06:46.160 --> 0:06:48.640 as the opponent all of those things, because the tennis 0:06:48.640 --> 0:06:51.080 courk can look like a very lonely place. So besides 0:06:51.120 --> 0:06:54.039 the macro pressure of having to win a title for 0:06:54.120 --> 0:06:57.640 your country or fulfill a lifelong dream, it's the pressure 0:06:57.680 --> 0:06:59.960 in that moment. You have to get your body to cooperate. 0:07:00.000 --> 0:07:01.400 You have to hit a beautiful serve, you hit a 0:07:01.400 --> 0:07:04.760 beautiful backhand in that moment, and then try to push 0:07:04.800 --> 0:07:07.240 that tension out of the body, because that's that's the 0:07:07.360 --> 0:07:10.120 enemy of execution, right or or or Can it be 0:07:10.360 --> 0:07:12.480 a positive? We tend to think of pressure as a negative. 0:07:12.480 --> 0:07:15.720 For most of the time, it's a positive. Can you 0:07:15.800 --> 0:07:20.280 keep talking about the fact that it's exactly the place 0:07:20.320 --> 0:07:21.960 you want to be. There's no other place in the 0:07:22.000 --> 0:07:24.640 world you wish to be than to be taking that 0:07:25.080 --> 0:07:27.800 last touchdown pass, or to be kicking that last goal, 0:07:28.000 --> 0:07:30.240 or to be stepping on the line and serving at 0:07:30.360 --> 0:07:33.400 match point for a big tournament. It's exactly where you 0:07:33.440 --> 0:07:36.760 want to be. So to be scared of that moment 0:07:36.840 --> 0:07:40.720 is is kind of it's not natural because that's the 0:07:40.760 --> 0:07:43.680 moment you've been dreaming, dreaming about for all your career, 0:07:43.760 --> 0:07:46.960 and and that's when the great players embraced that moment 0:07:47.000 --> 0:07:48.840 say give me the ball. This this is what I want. 0:07:48.920 --> 0:07:50.920 Give me the ball because I have a chance here 0:07:50.960 --> 0:07:54.320 to achieve something really special. It takes training the Chris 0:07:54.400 --> 0:07:56.200 as you know, you know, you just you didn't walk 0:07:56.240 --> 0:07:58.160 into this job what you do at the moment and 0:07:58.200 --> 0:08:01.160 be as good as you are by just coming to you. 0:08:01.160 --> 0:08:02.560 You've got to work on it, and you've got to 0:08:02.600 --> 0:08:04.480 work on it all the time. Even when you're away 0:08:04.480 --> 0:08:06.880 from the studio doing what you do. I'm sure you're 0:08:06.920 --> 0:08:09.000 prepping and you're looking at other people that do this, 0:08:09.080 --> 0:08:11.080 and you're trying to get things that other people do well. 0:08:11.440 --> 0:08:14.560 You're trying to improve your craft. Sport is that, sport 0:08:14.600 --> 0:08:17.600 is seven. Sport is always working on ways to find 0:08:18.400 --> 0:08:20.920 little areas that you can keep on improving and keep 0:08:20.960 --> 0:08:25.320 evolving as an athlete. So you know, it's incredibly important 0:08:25.360 --> 0:08:29.360 to learn from your losses and your failures and to 0:08:29.440 --> 0:08:31.160 try to come back and be a little bit stronger 0:08:31.200 --> 0:08:33.320 next time around. It's not always going to be perfect 0:08:33.360 --> 0:08:37.160 for you. You build resilience from those failures and as 0:08:37.200 --> 0:08:39.600 long as you keep on pushing and keep on trying, 0:08:39.640 --> 0:08:42.440 and keep on persevering, you're going to give yourself the 0:08:42.440 --> 0:08:46.480 best chance possible. You stated in a different way where 0:08:46.480 --> 0:08:49.440 Billy Jane King has made famous, which is the pressure 0:08:49.760 --> 0:08:52.320 is a privilege, and folks can nod their heads and 0:08:52.400 --> 0:08:55.080 understand what that means. To win enough to be in 0:08:55.120 --> 0:08:57.480 that moment where you're serving for a title, to work 0:08:57.520 --> 0:08:59.360 as hard as you've had to work to get there, 0:08:59.559 --> 0:09:01.640 and playing the big match and have the eyes of 0:09:01.679 --> 0:09:04.040 the world on you, Yes, that's a privilege, but I 0:09:04.080 --> 0:09:07.240 think a lot of players would say that privilege feels 0:09:07.240 --> 0:09:09.080 a lot like a burden. You can try to use 0:09:10.160 --> 0:09:13.960 code words and techniques that sports psychologists provide you, but 0:09:14.040 --> 0:09:15.600 when you're trying to step up and do it. We've 0:09:15.600 --> 0:09:18.800 seen the great Serena Williams have to deal with tremendous 0:09:18.840 --> 0:09:21.440 pressure and look uncomfortable in doing so, especially later in 0:09:21.440 --> 0:09:24.640 your career. We've seen Novak Djokovic trying to achieve great 0:09:24.679 --> 0:09:28.480 things even fedter in the doll You can see the 0:09:28.559 --> 0:09:31.160 expression of pressure intention on them and have to come 0:09:31.200 --> 0:09:33.400 through it again. That's what makes the sports so beautiful, 0:09:33.600 --> 0:09:36.760 But at times in those moments it looks like a 0:09:36.800 --> 0:09:39.200 privilege I'd rather not have. It looks like something that 0:09:39.280 --> 0:09:45.080 that they're really struggling with. That it kind of makes 0:09:45.120 --> 0:09:49.680 the journey worthwhile, right because those greatest moments sometimes you 0:09:49.760 --> 0:09:52.960 hit a few bumps along the way and the destination 0:09:53.040 --> 0:09:55.000 is more beautiful if it's a bit of a rocky 0:09:55.040 --> 0:09:59.600 road to get there. And we're not perfect. Everybody makes 0:09:59.679 --> 0:10:02.400 mista akes and everybody has bumps along the way, and 0:10:03.160 --> 0:10:05.240 it's it's part of life and part of the journey 0:10:05.240 --> 0:10:07.880 as an athlete, as long as you keep embracing it, 0:10:07.960 --> 0:10:10.120 keep putting yourself in those positions. And the one thing 0:10:10.120 --> 0:10:13.400 that I would always say is and if you can 0:10:13.400 --> 0:10:15.400 put the coaching head on, you can go out and 0:10:15.400 --> 0:10:18.000 have a chat to your athlete right before those big moments. 0:10:18.679 --> 0:10:22.120 How did you get into this position? Why are you here? 0:10:22.160 --> 0:10:24.680 What are the excess and those? And you know, Brad 0:10:24.720 --> 0:10:26.400 and I we always go back to the excess and 0:10:26.440 --> 0:10:30.800 those because they are so important. Is that how did 0:10:30.840 --> 0:10:35.000 you lead six, four or five match point? What were 0:10:35.000 --> 0:10:37.680 you doing to get here? What were the tactics that 0:10:37.720 --> 0:10:40.680 we're working, what were your strengths? Where were you serving 0:10:40.760 --> 0:10:43.000 the big moments? How are you winning your points, and 0:10:43.000 --> 0:10:45.520 if you go back to the excess and os in 0:10:45.559 --> 0:10:47.800 the big moments, it takes kind of the emotion out 0:10:47.840 --> 0:10:51.719 of it as well. And I think simplifying is really 0:10:51.760 --> 0:10:54.360 important in those moments. And if you can just get 0:10:54.360 --> 0:10:57.360 through the code of the player's head that Okay, I'm 0:10:57.400 --> 0:11:00.559 the better player today. I got this position because I've 0:11:00.559 --> 0:11:02.920 been serving to a particular point. I've been using my 0:11:02.960 --> 0:11:06.480 fuehand effectively instead of going inside in the inside out 0:11:06.559 --> 0:11:08.880 is working much better for me. That's what I'm going 0:11:08.880 --> 0:11:10.640 to do in the big moments. I'm going to play 0:11:10.679 --> 0:11:13.200 to my strengths and if my strengths don't work, at 0:11:13.280 --> 0:11:15.959 least I gave it my best shot. Yeah, you spend 0:11:15.960 --> 0:11:17.720 time in selling that in a player so they can 0:11:17.760 --> 0:11:20.880 do it themselves in the momentum. Other sports have coaching 0:11:21.040 --> 0:11:23.960 within the competition. You're one of the few, though, as 0:11:24.120 --> 0:11:26.640 as coach of a very high level women's player, actually 0:11:26.679 --> 0:11:29.719 more than one to step out there and w t 0:11:29.840 --> 0:11:32.000 a tournaments where coaching is allowed on a change over 0:11:32.040 --> 0:11:34.040 if they asked for it, and then try to deliver 0:11:34.080 --> 0:11:36.560 that message in the heat of the moment in sixty 0:11:36.640 --> 0:11:39.520 seconds while reading the situation and figuring out are a 0:11:39.520 --> 0:11:42.319 lot of words necessary? Are a few words necessary? How 0:11:42.320 --> 0:11:45.000 do I how do I turn this around in a 0:11:45.000 --> 0:11:48.559 few seconds? Here? Is it a tactical conversation? Is it 0:11:48.559 --> 0:11:50.680 an emotional conversation? Is it a bit of a pep 0:11:50.760 --> 0:11:53.320 up talk? It could be anything, to be quite honest, 0:11:53.360 --> 0:11:56.040 but less is best in those moments, in the heat 0:11:56.040 --> 0:11:58.319 of the moment, if you can keep your words pretty short, 0:11:58.520 --> 0:12:00.640 give one or two things that the players and grab onto, 0:12:00.640 --> 0:12:02.120 because if you give a whole bunch of words in 0:12:02.200 --> 0:12:05.480 sixty seconds, most of it gets lost. So I've found 0:12:05.679 --> 0:12:07.880 with the on court coaching on the w t A 0:12:07.960 --> 0:12:10.800 Tour that less is best. Be to the point and 0:12:10.840 --> 0:12:14.000 give your players something they can really grab onto. I 0:12:14.080 --> 0:12:16.720 do believe that we are heading towards some coaching and 0:12:16.760 --> 0:12:18.959 the Men's Tour. I don't believe we'll ever have coaching 0:12:19.120 --> 0:12:22.280 in the Grand Slams. I think the Grand Slams, not 0:12:22.360 --> 0:12:24.120 all the Grand Slams, but I think a couple of 0:12:24.160 --> 0:12:26.320 them are really against it. So you need all four 0:12:26.320 --> 0:12:28.320 Grand Slams to be on the same page to bring 0:12:28.320 --> 0:12:30.480 in something like that. But I do believe on the 0:12:30.520 --> 0:12:32.560 a TP Tour and the w t A tour coaching 0:12:32.640 --> 0:12:35.680 is a good thing because we're there to make the 0:12:35.720 --> 0:12:38.920 athletes better. We're there to make the competitions better. I 0:12:38.960 --> 0:12:40.760 think it does bring a little bit of insight into 0:12:40.840 --> 0:12:43.800 the living room of people watching as well, any ways 0:12:43.840 --> 0:12:46.800 that we can help the athletes be a better version 0:12:46.840 --> 0:12:50.120 of themselves. I think it's a good thing. It's been 0:12:50.160 --> 0:12:53.319 such a huge topic in sports, coping with pressure and 0:12:53.360 --> 0:12:57.120 trying to overcome that. Um and tennis name Osaka has 0:12:57.160 --> 0:13:01.760 talked about feeling pressure, expectations, battling things within herself, and 0:13:01.960 --> 0:13:05.439 some things conspiring to take the joy and the enjoyment 0:13:05.720 --> 0:13:08.360 out of what can be a very joyful job, and 0:13:08.559 --> 0:13:11.280 just day to day seems, you know, like a struggle 0:13:11.280 --> 0:13:14.439 where it's not the pressure to hit a shot in 0:13:14.480 --> 0:13:17.280 the moment, it's just living living that lifestyle and then 0:13:17.320 --> 0:13:20.160 trying to dig out of that and turn up and 0:13:20.440 --> 0:13:23.319 do the job. At times, this can seem like a 0:13:23.440 --> 0:13:28.280 very complicated sport. You've lived a sport with me for 0:13:28.280 --> 0:13:31.120 a number of years now, you understand you've probably heard 0:13:31.120 --> 0:13:34.880 me complain a little bit and talk about stories on tour, 0:13:35.000 --> 0:13:37.280 and you know, talk about the stories of my players 0:13:37.320 --> 0:13:40.040 as well. It's a complicated life, right, You would think 0:13:40.040 --> 0:13:42.880 it would be a little more simply simplified because of 0:13:42.880 --> 0:13:45.960 the fact you're only coaching one person. If you're the 0:13:45.960 --> 0:13:48.559 coach of a team, you're looking after a roster of players, 0:13:48.600 --> 0:13:50.679 and you've also got a bunch of assistant coaches as 0:13:50.679 --> 0:13:52.960 well that are taking on some of that responsibility. You 0:13:53.040 --> 0:13:56.559 probably don't dive in to the lives of those players 0:13:57.240 --> 0:13:59.280 seven like we do as tennis coaches, but we take 0:13:59.280 --> 0:14:03.959 on more a much bigger role than just coaching tennis 0:14:04.000 --> 0:14:06.559 balls and coaching how tennis balls are hit. It's really 0:14:06.600 --> 0:14:11.559 a psychologist role. It's a friendship role. Not only spending 0:14:11.600 --> 0:14:13.440 time at the course, but you sent spending time away 0:14:13.440 --> 0:14:15.959 from the courts with that player. You're dealing with all 0:14:16.000 --> 0:14:17.880 sorts of stuff when it comes to that player as well. 0:14:18.000 --> 0:14:22.160 So it's I love it, you know, It's all I know. 0:14:22.720 --> 0:14:25.320 You mentioned earlier that I grew up in a azyr 0:14:25.360 --> 0:14:28.040 rules family and my dad being a player and a coach, 0:14:28.120 --> 0:14:32.440 and and watching him go away about his coaching craft 0:14:32.600 --> 0:14:36.400 back as a youngster back in Adelaide, Australia. I think 0:14:36.400 --> 0:14:38.840 I learned a lot from him, and I didn't really 0:14:38.880 --> 0:14:40.800 know it at the time, but kind of his style 0:14:41.040 --> 0:14:43.600 has been my style through the course of my coaching 0:14:43.640 --> 0:14:45.920 career as well. And one of the big things that 0:14:45.960 --> 0:14:49.680 he was always great at was selling belief and letting 0:14:49.720 --> 0:14:52.720 his players I feel like they were actually a little 0:14:52.720 --> 0:14:56.320 better than what they were. And he was great at 0:14:56.320 --> 0:14:59.280 the culture side of things as well, putting the team together, 0:14:59.400 --> 0:15:01.760 having some real of things in place that the players 0:15:01.800 --> 0:15:04.520 would gather around each other, especially when times got tough, 0:15:04.960 --> 0:15:07.280 and rise up and help each other. And the culture 0:15:07.360 --> 0:15:10.760 is a huge, huge thing in team bonding and team coaching, 0:15:11.120 --> 0:15:13.880 but it's a massive thing on the tennis court as well, 0:15:13.920 --> 0:15:15.640 because if you have good culture, if you have a 0:15:15.640 --> 0:15:18.480 good feeling amongst the team that you have, it just 0:15:18.520 --> 0:15:21.360 helps the player go out onto the court and not 0:15:21.480 --> 0:15:25.400 feel like they're alone because they are alone. It's it's 0:15:25.440 --> 0:15:28.080 one of the few sports where you go onto the 0:15:28.080 --> 0:15:31.000 court and you basically have a conversation with yourself, and 0:15:32.120 --> 0:15:34.600 of that conversation you're having with us with yourself is 0:15:34.640 --> 0:15:36.520 a bad one, and it's like, oh my god, how 0:15:36.560 --> 0:15:39.040 can I miss that? Oh you're so bad. You are 0:15:39.080 --> 0:15:41.520 the worst place, you know, that's just what we do. 0:15:42.040 --> 0:15:44.680 It's really hard for us to hit a good forehand 0:15:44.680 --> 0:15:47.120 down the line and say good on your mate, that's awesome, 0:15:47.160 --> 0:15:50.080 that was a great shot. Tennis players just don't do that. 0:15:50.520 --> 0:15:53.720 So it's you need a good team around you, you 0:15:53.760 --> 0:15:55.280 need to build a good culture, and you need to 0:15:55.320 --> 0:15:57.120 sell that belief. And I think that's what my dad 0:15:57.240 --> 0:15:59.960 is really good at. Yeah, he's got a great reputation 0:16:00.320 --> 0:16:03.360 doing that. That might be the ultimate team sport eighteen 0:16:03.480 --> 0:16:06.800 aside on the field at one time, thirty six players 0:16:06.840 --> 0:16:08.600 out there. I'm glad I never had to announce that. 0:16:08.640 --> 0:16:10.800 I mean, twenty two is enough on the field at 0:16:10.800 --> 0:16:13.360 one time in American football, But but thirty six guys 0:16:13.360 --> 0:16:16.760 out there. How do you think pressure is different in 0:16:16.760 --> 0:16:20.680 a team sports environment versus an individual sport, and including 0:16:20.680 --> 0:16:27.200 the ultimate individual sport. Aren't team sports a bunch of 0:16:27.200 --> 0:16:30.080 individuals anyway running around? Whilst you might work as a team, 0:16:30.120 --> 0:16:32.440 it comes down to those moments where it becomes an 0:16:32.440 --> 0:16:36.360 individual thing, doesn't even in college football it's the quarterback 0:16:36.440 --> 0:16:40.480 throwing the touchdown pass, or it's the receiver taking the 0:16:40.520 --> 0:16:42.240 mark or to catch or whatever you guys call it. 0:16:42.640 --> 0:16:48.000 You know, it's sport these days gets broken down so 0:16:48.120 --> 0:16:52.520 much that it's very much individual and about individual performances 0:16:52.920 --> 0:16:55.720 and and how you perform under pressure. So I don't 0:16:55.840 --> 0:16:58.040 think there's a huge difference between that. I don't see 0:16:58.040 --> 0:17:00.760 a massive difference between a tennis player's for pformance and 0:17:00.840 --> 0:17:03.680 Tom Brady's performance, because it's the way we look at 0:17:03.720 --> 0:17:06.000 it these days, and the way we do the analytics 0:17:06.040 --> 0:17:07.919 and we break everything down with the tape and the 0:17:07.960 --> 0:17:12.960 way that we dissect it as commentators and analysts. So yeah, 0:17:13.000 --> 0:17:15.159 I think the same pressure applies whether you're playing in 0:17:15.200 --> 0:17:18.000 the team or whether you're an individual. I don't really 0:17:18.080 --> 0:17:20.520 think it's much of a difference. This part of the 0:17:20.560 --> 0:17:23.440 conversation was during the Tokyo Olympics, and our talk turned 0:17:23.480 --> 0:17:27.400 to the difficult decisions that gymnastics legends Simone Biles had 0:17:27.440 --> 0:17:31.200 to make with the whole world watching. Through his experience 0:17:31.240 --> 0:17:35.280 as coaching Simona Hallet, Darren says it's important to listen 0:17:35.359 --> 0:17:39.240 and learn and be grateful for Simon Bial's honesty. How 0:17:39.280 --> 0:17:43.400 strong is she though? Just an amazing person, an amazing athlete. 0:17:44.280 --> 0:17:46.080 And I've been around this long enough now, I've been 0:17:46.080 --> 0:17:48.840 working with Simona Howlett for the last six or seven years. 0:17:48.880 --> 0:17:54.560 For me, she is the strongest mentally the strongest, one 0:17:54.600 --> 0:17:57.439 of the most capable people that I've met in my life, 0:17:57.560 --> 0:17:59.959 and an amazing person, an amazing athlete, and I may 0:18:00.000 --> 0:18:03.800 as in competitor, and as I said before, being by 0:18:03.840 --> 0:18:05.960 her side and watching the pressure that she's been under 0:18:06.200 --> 0:18:08.440 throughout the course of her career and her being able 0:18:08.440 --> 0:18:10.400 to deal with it in fine ways to to get 0:18:10.400 --> 0:18:13.200 through those times of toughness when when it was really 0:18:13.200 --> 0:18:17.359 breaking her down. Yeah, I get what Simone is going through. 0:18:17.640 --> 0:18:22.080 I've seen it from a different athlete. I've been around 0:18:22.080 --> 0:18:24.080 it long enough to know that we all have to 0:18:24.480 --> 0:18:26.560 have patience with that. We have to take our time, 0:18:26.760 --> 0:18:29.919 and we have to ask questions and learn from these 0:18:30.400 --> 0:18:34.520 these moments because things like Simone is communicating to us 0:18:34.520 --> 0:18:36.199 at the moment. We can all learn from it and 0:18:36.240 --> 0:18:37.920 we can all get better from them, and the next 0:18:37.960 --> 0:18:42.280 generation coming through will be more aware of when they 0:18:42.320 --> 0:18:45.320 are having these struggles. Okay, it's not just me, you know, 0:18:45.359 --> 0:18:48.200 I'm not the weird one. This has happened to athletes before, 0:18:48.320 --> 0:18:50.439 and they'll be able to deal with it much more efficiently. 0:18:50.520 --> 0:18:53.399 So my heart goes out to Simone. I hope that 0:18:53.440 --> 0:18:56.280 she gets through it. They caught the twist is is 0:18:56.280 --> 0:18:58.919 that right what she's going through. I saw some video 0:18:59.000 --> 0:19:03.080 that she released yes today about doing some training in Tokyo. 0:19:03.240 --> 0:19:05.080 One of the places opened up a gym for her 0:19:05.080 --> 0:19:07.320 where she's jumping into a pit trying to get her 0:19:07.760 --> 0:19:10.439 her jumps right and she's landing on the back of 0:19:10.480 --> 0:19:12.919 all things. So can you imagine if she was actually 0:19:12.920 --> 0:19:16.399 to perform and lose her way getting the twisties in 0:19:16.440 --> 0:19:19.920 competition and actually really hurt herself. So yeah, I hope 0:19:19.920 --> 0:19:22.760 she gets through it. Apparently a lot of the gymnasts 0:19:22.760 --> 0:19:24.720 do go through this and they do get out of it. 0:19:24.880 --> 0:19:27.960 So heart goes out to Simone and thanks for being 0:19:28.000 --> 0:19:30.040 so honest and we can all learn from this as well. 0:19:31.119 --> 0:19:33.560 In the culture now, there seems to be a pretty 0:19:33.560 --> 0:19:36.720 disappointing lack of empathy and compassion among people that have 0:19:36.840 --> 0:19:39.560 no understanding what an athlete is going through. I mean, 0:19:39.600 --> 0:19:44.080 it's complicated because titles are one championship, society, legacy is 0:19:44.080 --> 0:19:46.760 built on how you do handle pressure in the moment, 0:19:47.240 --> 0:19:49.760 and man, it could be pretty hard. Should be in 0:19:49.800 --> 0:19:53.000 tennis that the label of choking in the moment. I mean, 0:19:53.440 --> 0:19:56.119 every player has done it, no matter how great they are. 0:19:56.000 --> 0:19:58.880 We're talking about Roger, Ratha, Novak, Serena. They all had 0:19:58.920 --> 0:20:01.160 those moments where they fell short of what they wanted 0:20:01.200 --> 0:20:04.520 to do because the moment they couldn't meet that moment. 0:20:04.760 --> 0:20:07.359 But man, is it difficult and harsh these days to 0:20:07.440 --> 0:20:09.520 be to be judged for that when you've done so 0:20:09.560 --> 0:20:11.560 many other great things and yet people want to remember 0:20:11.560 --> 0:20:16.240 and focus on, you know, two minutes of frailty I 0:20:16.280 --> 0:20:18.560 had andre As actually talked about the a f L. 0:20:18.880 --> 0:20:21.720 Andrea acually did me a wonderful favor where he got 0:20:21.720 --> 0:20:24.440 on with the leaders of the Port Adelaide Football Club 0:20:24.520 --> 0:20:26.240 on a zoom call just like this, and it was 0:20:26.240 --> 0:20:29.080 having a chat to the leaders of the club. So 0:20:29.119 --> 0:20:31.080 there was about ten of the players and one of 0:20:31.119 --> 0:20:34.280 the questions to Andrea was would you walk back some 0:20:34.440 --> 0:20:37.080 of your mistakes that you made throughout the course of 0:20:37.119 --> 0:20:39.719 your career. It was like he was a little bit 0:20:39.720 --> 0:20:43.080 offended by it goes, why would I do that? You know, Yeah, 0:20:43.359 --> 0:20:45.560 of course I've made plenty of mistakes, but all of 0:20:45.600 --> 0:20:48.600 those mistakes I've made have made me the person that 0:20:48.640 --> 0:20:51.080 I am today, and I would never walk back any 0:20:51.119 --> 0:20:53.160 of those because I've learned from them. Now I've become 0:20:53.200 --> 0:20:55.359 a better person from them, and I've become a better 0:20:55.440 --> 0:20:57.640 athlete from them, and I'm sitting here today. He didn't 0:20:57.680 --> 0:20:59.720 say this, but he was sitting there today, and he's 0:20:59.720 --> 0:21:03.120 one majors and he's won an Olympic gold medal, it's 0:21:03.119 --> 0:21:06.639 won the career Slam, of the career Golden Slam. Everything 0:21:06.680 --> 0:21:09.840 that could be achieved in tennis, he achieved it. And 0:21:09.840 --> 0:21:13.520 he only achieved it because there was some big hurdles 0:21:13.560 --> 0:21:16.359 along the way that he had to overcome and he 0:21:16.400 --> 0:21:19.479 had to become better because of that. To no, he 0:21:19.520 --> 0:21:22.040 would not go back and start his life again knowing 0:21:22.040 --> 0:21:25.080 the mistakes he made. Those mistakes were really important for 0:21:25.160 --> 0:21:27.159 him in his growth as a person in an athlete, 0:21:27.160 --> 0:21:29.840 and I thought that was really good. As usual, our 0:21:29.840 --> 0:21:31.960 minds are together. It was gonna, wrote Andrea very soon, 0:21:32.000 --> 0:21:34.639 because you coached Hi when he became the oldest number 0:21:34.680 --> 0:21:36.960 one male player in the world at that time, and 0:21:37.040 --> 0:21:39.680 not many people believed in him that he was gonna 0:21:39.680 --> 0:21:41.320 be able to get back to that moment. But Andrea 0:21:41.320 --> 0:21:44.919 was such a beautifully and still as a beautifully complex person, 0:21:45.080 --> 0:21:48.919 and he's got many facets. He the complexity is one 0:21:48.960 --> 0:21:50.520 of the things that makes him the person who he is, 0:21:50.520 --> 0:21:52.440 made him the player who he is, but also made 0:21:52.440 --> 0:21:54.879 it a challenge, I imagine to coach him at times 0:21:54.920 --> 0:21:57.119 because you know, andre As he talked about in his 0:21:57.160 --> 0:21:59.880 book and has other times. Um, you know, he could 0:22:00.040 --> 0:22:03.320 lose focus, he could lose his priorities where it suddenly 0:22:03.359 --> 0:22:06.399 became not that important to win this match or this title, 0:22:06.600 --> 0:22:10.080 And that's that's the beauty of him. He's not like 0:22:10.200 --> 0:22:12.520 too many people that have ever played any sports, so 0:22:12.600 --> 0:22:15.159 coaching him must have been fascinating at the At the 0:22:15.160 --> 0:22:22.359 same time, he's a complicated genius. He could make the 0:22:22.520 --> 0:22:27.760 difficult really simple. He could just break it down incredibly fast. 0:22:27.960 --> 0:22:29.680 You know, he would think about things for a long 0:22:29.720 --> 0:22:32.040 time and you come back with a solution that was, 0:22:32.240 --> 0:22:35.000 oh yeah, and that makes perfect sense. But he wasn't 0:22:35.040 --> 0:22:37.200 great with the simple. You could make the simple really 0:22:37.240 --> 0:22:39.880 really complicated, way too complicated. And I think that's why 0:22:40.440 --> 0:22:43.080 both Brad and I had some great times with him, 0:22:43.240 --> 0:22:44.760 is that Brad and I are pretty much on the 0:22:44.760 --> 0:22:47.000 same wavelength, is that we like to keep things simple, 0:22:47.160 --> 0:22:49.600 and we like to keep things clear, and our communication 0:22:49.680 --> 0:22:52.480 is pretty clear as well, So we were we were 0:22:52.680 --> 0:22:54.840 a good mix for him because at times he could 0:22:54.840 --> 0:22:58.040 over complicate things and we could come in and go no, no, no, no, no, 0:22:58.160 --> 0:23:00.760 this is how it is and okay, and he would 0:23:00.800 --> 0:23:03.919 move everything into different compartments and just concentrate on the 0:23:03.960 --> 0:23:06.680 task at hand. So it was a bit of a 0:23:06.840 --> 0:23:09.159 ying and yang with the coach and the player and 0:23:09.200 --> 0:23:11.200 getting and it's where it's really important also to get 0:23:11.200 --> 0:23:13.639 the right type of coach with the right type of personality. 0:23:13.680 --> 0:23:15.720 With the player. It's not about how they play sometimes 0:23:15.760 --> 0:23:18.520 it's about the mindset. And so that's where it was 0:23:18.600 --> 0:23:21.640 quite successful with both Brandon myself. I've said this many 0:23:21.680 --> 0:23:24.880 times before. He made me a much better tennis coach 0:23:24.880 --> 0:23:26.720 than I made him a tennis player. And there's no 0:23:26.800 --> 0:23:30.160 question about it, because you have to be on your 0:23:30.240 --> 0:23:34.200 game seven when you work with someone like Andre Darren. 0:23:34.240 --> 0:23:37.919 How would you make it a stinction between belief and confidence. 0:23:38.080 --> 0:23:42.560 Belief is deep, it can come from years and decades. Confidence. 0:23:42.960 --> 0:23:44.800 I think most players and most sports would say you 0:23:44.840 --> 0:23:46.560 can come and go. But it is remarkable as an 0:23:46.600 --> 0:23:50.080 outsider to watch it from sometimes from bright caast booth 0:23:50.160 --> 0:23:54.080 or courtside. Confidence just go like that. It can evaporate 0:23:54.280 --> 0:23:57.199 with one mess and seemingly turn a match around. I mean, 0:23:57.240 --> 0:23:59.920 the mind is a very interesting thing, and as a 0:24:00.080 --> 0:24:01.760 coach you sit there in a box kind of helpless, 0:24:01.800 --> 0:24:05.600 But that just helps shed some light on on just 0:24:05.720 --> 0:24:08.439 the idea of confidence kind of coming and going in 0:24:08.480 --> 0:24:14.280 an instant. Yes, I've got the my five attributes that 0:24:14.359 --> 0:24:18.040 I believe that champions possess. You can talk about speed 0:24:18.119 --> 0:24:20.960 and height and power, and you know, there's a whole 0:24:21.000 --> 0:24:25.560 bunch of attributes that you're not gifted, and some players 0:24:25.600 --> 0:24:28.560 have them, some players don't. But the five attributes that 0:24:28.600 --> 0:24:32.240 I believe that all champions have work ethic And you 0:24:32.320 --> 0:24:35.119 talk about belief, you can't have belief without great work ethic. 0:24:35.400 --> 0:24:38.240 And the champions they put the working. They don't all 0:24:38.280 --> 0:24:40.600 work to the same level because some people are a 0:24:40.640 --> 0:24:42.800 little bit different in the way they go about it, 0:24:42.840 --> 0:24:44.720 but you've got to be able to put the work in, 0:24:45.000 --> 0:24:46.399 and if you don't put the work in, you have 0:24:46.440 --> 0:24:50.640 no chance. At this level. They all have unbelievable purpose, 0:24:50.920 --> 0:24:54.840 and it's about finding the why about what makes an 0:24:54.840 --> 0:24:58.320 athlete tick and coaching for the why, and that will 0:24:58.320 --> 0:25:01.960 make a massive difference in building that purpose for the player. 0:25:02.000 --> 0:25:04.520 Because when I came along, Andre was thirty two years 0:25:04.520 --> 0:25:08.480 of age. He accomplished amazing things throughout his career. You 0:25:08.560 --> 0:25:10.680 said it before. Most people thought that he was maybe 0:25:10.680 --> 0:25:15.720 on the way down. But his purpose was to build 0:25:16.040 --> 0:25:20.240 an opportunity and a life and education for kids that 0:25:20.280 --> 0:25:22.880 couldn't afford it in his hometown of Las Vegas. That's 0:25:22.920 --> 0:25:25.360 what he was playing for. He wasn't playing for himself, 0:25:25.480 --> 0:25:28.040 and he had already accomplished everything you needed to accomplish 0:25:28.080 --> 0:25:31.399 his tennis play. He was playing for the kids of 0:25:31.520 --> 0:25:34.240 Las Vegas. So that was his purpose. And once you 0:25:34.280 --> 0:25:36.520 know the purpose, then you can build a program and 0:25:36.560 --> 0:25:39.399 a schedule around that to keep him inspired to go 0:25:39.440 --> 0:25:42.119 out there and continue to do what he does great. 0:25:43.080 --> 0:25:45.919 The belief you spoke about all the great champions in 0:25:45.960 --> 0:25:47.960 the world, they just have it, and they have it 0:25:48.080 --> 0:25:53.199 through built up resilience as well. That's going on the 0:25:53.240 --> 0:25:56.280 path that we spoke about. The it's never a straight line, 0:25:56.640 --> 0:26:00.720 it's never a normal straight road with no bumps along 0:26:00.720 --> 0:26:04.160 the way. Everybody suffers through those bumps. And you can 0:26:04.200 --> 0:26:07.240 go through the the lives of every great champion and 0:26:07.400 --> 0:26:10.720 every great sport and there will be amazing stories attached 0:26:10.760 --> 0:26:14.000 to those those lives. So you've got to build up 0:26:14.000 --> 0:26:17.359 that resilience and embrace it as something good and something 0:26:17.400 --> 0:26:20.119 that's needed to get there. And the last thing that 0:26:20.200 --> 0:26:23.240 I believe, especially in tennis, that all the great champions have, 0:26:24.160 --> 0:26:27.439 they have a great team around them. They don't just 0:26:27.480 --> 0:26:29.879 have a coach coming in every year or two and 0:26:29.960 --> 0:26:32.679 keep looking for the magic bullet to now, I'm going 0:26:32.720 --> 0:26:34.480 to get into a new coach because this is not 0:26:34.560 --> 0:26:36.639 working for me. I I'm not sure why I'm not 0:26:36.680 --> 0:26:39.359 winning tennis matches. It's time to change things. They have 0:26:39.480 --> 0:26:42.520 a strong team around them that they can build up 0:26:42.680 --> 0:26:47.120 that belief and that culture that we spoke about before. 0:26:47.160 --> 0:26:49.879 And if you look at Federer, he's had several Luthy 0:26:50.040 --> 0:26:51.679 and he's had a couple of other coaches coming in 0:26:51.720 --> 0:26:53.399 as well, but he's had his fitness trainer for all 0:26:53.440 --> 0:26:56.159 his career. Several Luthy has been all his career. You 0:26:56.200 --> 0:26:58.960 look at Djokovic, he's had Mary Invider basically there his 0:26:59.119 --> 0:27:02.120 entire career. If you look at Serena Williams, Patrick Marauderglu 0:27:02.200 --> 0:27:03.920 has been there for the last seven or eight years, 0:27:03.920 --> 0:27:06.120 and before that it was her dad that's been there 0:27:06.160 --> 0:27:08.840 for her and saying for Venus as well, you go 0:27:08.920 --> 0:27:12.320 through all the best players in the world, they've got strong, 0:27:12.800 --> 0:27:16.320 consistent teams around them, and I believe that's really important 0:27:16.359 --> 0:27:22.200 for a continued success. Obviously, this change is player by player, situation, 0:27:22.240 --> 0:27:25.280 but situation, but in general, how would you describe the 0:27:25.440 --> 0:27:29.960 art of tennis coaching in terms of technical strokes, tactical 0:27:30.040 --> 0:27:32.120 the excess and ose, and just the mental side being 0:27:32.520 --> 0:27:36.720 being a cheerleader, a hardass, or a friend or whatever 0:27:36.800 --> 0:27:41.159 whatever you have button you have to push. So I 0:27:41.160 --> 0:27:43.360 think tennis is a little bit different because you're one 0:27:43.400 --> 0:27:45.800 on one and you don't have a roster of players 0:27:45.920 --> 0:27:48.800 changed coming through your team. So I think the window 0:27:49.200 --> 0:27:52.520 of making real change and being really effective is about 0:27:52.560 --> 0:27:55.320 three or four years in tennis. Once you get to 0:27:55.400 --> 0:27:59.000 that moment, you become it becomes more of a managerial 0:27:59.080 --> 0:28:03.960 role in tenner. The important thing after that is for 0:28:04.000 --> 0:28:06.480 the coach to evolve. And we talk a lot about 0:28:07.480 --> 0:28:11.199 tennis coaching in that because you're one on one, because 0:28:11.200 --> 0:28:15.320 the jobs are quite protective, coaches are a bit reluctant 0:28:15.560 --> 0:28:18.080 to reach out for help. So if I'm having trouble 0:28:18.160 --> 0:28:22.760 with Simona and having trouble to improve her, serve the 0:28:22.840 --> 0:28:25.359 first thing I would do is and I've done this before, 0:28:25.480 --> 0:28:27.840 is to reach out to someone who probably knows to 0:28:27.880 --> 0:28:30.080 serve a little better than me and say, hey, listen, 0:28:30.080 --> 0:28:31.640 can you come in and take a look at simonas 0:28:31.680 --> 0:28:34.680 serves see if there's anything I'm missing Because I'm trying 0:28:34.680 --> 0:28:36.320 to get a next to three or four miles per hour. 0:28:37.720 --> 0:28:39.920 That's really important, and I think that happens a lot 0:28:39.960 --> 0:28:41.960 in tennis. So you have to evolve, You have to 0:28:42.000 --> 0:28:44.280 reach out, you have to get other people to come in. 0:28:44.320 --> 0:28:47.600 Otherwise you only have a certain amount of information in 0:28:47.640 --> 0:28:50.440 your bank, and once you unload all that information, where 0:28:50.440 --> 0:28:53.280 do you go to from there? And that's why sometimes 0:28:53.320 --> 0:28:55.520 the limit is about three or four years as a 0:28:55.520 --> 0:28:59.920 tennis coach. So evolving as a tennis coach is incredibly 0:29:00.000 --> 0:29:04.040 important early. I think a lot of it is technical 0:29:04.240 --> 0:29:08.840 and technical, but if you're not addressing the emotional quality 0:29:08.840 --> 0:29:10.160 and we talk a lot about the i Q and 0:29:10.240 --> 0:29:14.640 tennis UM, if you're not addressing the emotional quote from 0:29:14.800 --> 0:29:18.720 day one, you are really neglecting your job because it's 0:29:18.760 --> 0:29:21.120 amazingly important and you've got to be on that right 0:29:21.120 --> 0:29:22.920 from the start, and as you go through the course 0:29:22.960 --> 0:29:26.120 of the next couple of years the technical and the 0:29:26.160 --> 0:29:30.360 technical certainly changes depending on the situation. One major difference 0:29:30.360 --> 0:29:32.360 in tennis is that the coach works for the player, 0:29:32.800 --> 0:29:34.960 his or her incomes society about what the player does 0:29:34.960 --> 0:29:37.360 and what the player decides to pay them, and that 0:29:37.440 --> 0:29:41.000 varies widely. And you are the head of perhaps a team, 0:29:41.080 --> 0:29:43.560 but the team all orbits around the player and the 0:29:43.600 --> 0:29:46.760 player's win. There's so much turnover in tennis coaching. How 0:29:46.880 --> 0:29:50.360 is that dynamic when any any tennis coach can get 0:29:50.360 --> 0:29:53.440 fired at any moment, after any result if the player 0:29:53.560 --> 0:29:58.920 changes their mind. Now, I see a lot of coaches 0:29:59.200 --> 0:30:03.479 around the world that coaches they coach teams complain about 0:30:03.560 --> 0:30:07.040 the length of a coach's contract two or three years 0:30:07.080 --> 0:30:11.120 and the instability of it and uncertain futures. And I think, 0:30:11.120 --> 0:30:12.760 oh my god, to be unbelievable to have a two 0:30:12.800 --> 0:30:17.200 or three year contract, wouldn't it? Because my and I'm 0:30:17.280 --> 0:30:19.720 one of the lucky ones, because I've been able to 0:30:19.760 --> 0:30:22.440 work with three amazing people when late and cured, Andre 0:30:22.560 --> 0:30:25.560 Agassi and Simona Howett. I can tell you with Andre 0:30:26.040 --> 0:30:29.320 that I had a handshake, handshake agreement with Andre for 0:30:29.400 --> 0:30:33.160 five years and that was it. So we could have 0:30:33.200 --> 0:30:37.320 stopped at any moment in time um and I always 0:30:37.320 --> 0:30:39.880 looked at it that whatever time I get to spend 0:30:39.920 --> 0:30:43.200 with somebody like him, regardless of how long it was, 0:30:43.360 --> 0:30:45.280 I was going to walk away as a better person 0:30:45.320 --> 0:30:47.720 in a better coach for it as I moved on 0:30:47.760 --> 0:30:51.520 to my next role. I did mention that to Simona 0:30:51.840 --> 0:30:53.840 a number of years ago about the arrangement that I 0:30:53.840 --> 0:30:55.760 had with Andre, and the first thing she said, I 0:30:55.800 --> 0:30:59.080 want that too, So I actually have a handshake agreement 0:30:59.120 --> 0:31:01.520 with her as well. And you know, we've had a 0:31:01.560 --> 0:31:04.240 much rockier road than what I had with Andre because 0:31:04.280 --> 0:31:08.160 of many reasons, and they've been well documented, but it's 0:31:08.200 --> 0:31:10.400 been about the journey that her and I have had 0:31:10.440 --> 0:31:13.440 to build up that relationship, to have that trust between 0:31:13.440 --> 0:31:16.000 her and I, to build that resilience we talk about 0:31:16.080 --> 0:31:18.680 so often, and we've come out of the other side 0:31:18.680 --> 0:31:21.960 of it great friends and better for it, and hopefully 0:31:22.000 --> 0:31:24.040 she's a better athlete and a better tennis player for it, 0:31:24.040 --> 0:31:25.920 and I certainly believe I'm a better coach for it, 0:31:26.000 --> 0:31:30.080 because to go through those moments, it's an eye opening experience. 0:31:30.120 --> 0:31:32.240 And one of the things I do is I have 0:31:32.320 --> 0:31:34.000 a couple of people that I talked to back in 0:31:34.040 --> 0:31:37.120 Australia a lot about what I'm going through and how 0:31:37.160 --> 0:31:40.360 to handle situations, so I can get different views about 0:31:40.400 --> 0:31:43.080 what is right and what is wrong. There's no there's 0:31:43.120 --> 0:31:45.560 no real right and wrong, because it's really just you're 0:31:45.560 --> 0:31:47.720 an uncharted territory with a lot of the stuff that 0:31:47.760 --> 0:31:50.720 we go through. It's about trying to work out what 0:31:50.880 --> 0:31:53.200 is the best situation and the best way to handle it. 0:31:53.240 --> 0:31:56.400 And I've been wrong a number of times. At the 0:31:56.520 --> 0:31:59.360 US Open when she lost to sharif Over, I think 0:31:59.400 --> 0:32:02.000 it was about two thousand and seventeen, Simona was trying 0:32:02.040 --> 0:32:04.440 to get the number one ranking in the world. It 0:32:04.520 --> 0:32:07.560 was just after the Ostapenko lost at the French Open 0:32:07.600 --> 0:32:10.160 as well. That period between the French Open and the 0:32:10.240 --> 0:32:15.400 US Open, I made the mistake of trying to lead 0:32:15.520 --> 0:32:18.960 by being too strong and and standing up and making 0:32:18.960 --> 0:32:21.120 sure that all right, every day we're going to get 0:32:21.160 --> 0:32:23.000 onto the court and we're going to keep pushing, and 0:32:23.000 --> 0:32:25.600 you're really close and I believe in you, and I 0:32:25.640 --> 0:32:28.320 was trying to be this much a guy. I guess 0:32:28.440 --> 0:32:31.400 that Okay, you know, forget the French Open. It never happened. 0:32:31.400 --> 0:32:33.400 We were so close, let's go and get this done. 0:32:33.600 --> 0:32:36.360 But I wasn't connected to what she was going through, 0:32:36.760 --> 0:32:41.320 and I wasn't feeling the pain that she was. I 0:32:41.400 --> 0:32:43.880 knew the pain she was suffering, but I was trying 0:32:43.960 --> 0:32:46.080 not to show her that I was feeling the same 0:32:46.200 --> 0:32:48.800 same pain. And I was for sure, and that's all 0:32:48.840 --> 0:32:51.240 she needed to see was that I was suffering as well, 0:32:51.320 --> 0:32:54.400 because to her, I was this guy that didn't really 0:32:54.400 --> 0:32:57.240 care that she was going through this this moment or 0:32:57.280 --> 0:33:00.560 this pain. It wasn't true, but that was impression that 0:33:00.600 --> 0:33:03.160 I was giving her. And so after the US Open happened, 0:33:03.160 --> 0:33:05.720 when she lost that match to sharif Over, her trainer 0:33:05.800 --> 0:33:08.959 basically told me that, hey, you've been a dick. You know. 0:33:09.240 --> 0:33:10.720 All she wants is for you to give her a 0:33:10.800 --> 0:33:13.200 hug and tell her that you love her, and and 0:33:13.560 --> 0:33:15.280 that was much better than any coach and you can 0:33:15.320 --> 0:33:18.000 give her at the moment. He was right right. So 0:33:18.040 --> 0:33:20.000 I did that, and I went to locker room and 0:33:20.200 --> 0:33:22.280 told her that I loved her and really proud of 0:33:22.960 --> 0:33:27.960 everything she's done and couldn't be more proud of what 0:33:28.120 --> 0:33:30.040 she's been going through. And I gave her a hug 0:33:30.120 --> 0:33:32.080 and she said she's I've been waiting for this hug 0:33:32.120 --> 0:33:34.160 for three months, and then two weeks later she go 0:33:34.160 --> 0:33:36.440 out and beat Sharif over six two or six too. 0:33:36.480 --> 0:33:39.640 So the hug was the best coaching thing I've done 0:33:40.240 --> 0:33:42.880 in about two years. So you learn from those moments 0:33:43.480 --> 0:33:46.200 um but you only learn from those moments through trial 0:33:46.240 --> 0:33:50.160 and error. That's a great story. The achievement even more 0:33:50.200 --> 0:33:52.960 beautiful and even sweeter because of the rocky road that 0:33:53.120 --> 0:33:55.720 led up to it. That's a handshake deal that that 0:33:55.880 --> 0:33:59.480 was stood what you called shark therapy and the ultimeter, 0:33:59.600 --> 0:34:02.400 so it has to be. It's become a pretty sturdy 0:34:02.600 --> 0:34:06.480 and very nice to watch handshake deal. This generation is 0:34:06.480 --> 0:34:08.839 a little bit different. The coaches do care because they 0:34:08.840 --> 0:34:12.560 are of my generation. Most of us are married, or 0:34:12.600 --> 0:34:15.600 we have families, or we have kids, and to be 0:34:15.680 --> 0:34:17.640 a tennis coach means you've got to be on the 0:34:17.719 --> 0:34:22.080 road thirty five forty weeks the year. So I'm lucky 0:34:22.120 --> 0:34:25.920 again that I'm coaching players at the level that I 0:34:25.920 --> 0:34:29.839 can get paid pretty well. Most don't. Most of doing 0:34:29.880 --> 0:34:33.640 this because they love it. It's it's a tough life 0:34:33.680 --> 0:34:35.759 because you are away from the family for thirty five 0:34:35.840 --> 0:34:38.520 forty weeks a year. Most of making an amount of 0:34:38.520 --> 0:34:40.799 money where you can't afford to bring the family with you. 0:34:41.160 --> 0:34:45.000 I can if I choose to. So I have luxuries 0:34:45.040 --> 0:34:47.040 that a lot of coaches don't. But I do feel 0:34:47.040 --> 0:34:48.680 for a lot of coaches out there. And we talk 0:34:48.719 --> 0:34:52.560 about coaches salaries in other sports. You know, if a 0:34:52.640 --> 0:34:54.800 coach is making the hundred ground a year in tennis, 0:34:55.520 --> 0:34:58.879 they're doing pretty well. It's not the money that most 0:34:58.880 --> 0:35:02.719 people think that they make. If you make better, much 0:35:02.760 --> 0:35:05.400 better than that, but most don't. So I have a 0:35:05.400 --> 0:35:06.960 lot of a lot of empathy for a lot of 0:35:06.960 --> 0:35:08.640 the coaches out there and what they're going through and 0:35:08.680 --> 0:35:11.560 what they're suffering through. And they are damn good coaches. 0:35:11.640 --> 0:35:13.799 All the coaches put in a ton of work and 0:35:13.840 --> 0:35:16.759 they're all trying to get better, and and the relationship 0:35:16.840 --> 0:35:18.759 between a lot of the coaches on on the road 0:35:19.120 --> 0:35:21.279 is really close. Actually, we all try to help each other. 0:35:22.480 --> 0:35:25.040 That's true coaching at the highest level of various sports. 0:35:26.000 --> 0:35:31.120 The money, the ego strokes, the acclaim just not there. 0:35:31.120 --> 0:35:32.600 In tennis. You better be in it for the love 0:35:32.680 --> 0:35:34.600 of it because you're not going to get those inequal 0:35:34.600 --> 0:35:37.160 measures to the coaches and the in the team sports, 0:35:37.160 --> 0:35:39.640 that's for sure. Uh. One of the last things theren 0:35:39.640 --> 0:35:43.800 here you said that a coach's job is to coach 0:35:43.920 --> 0:35:46.640 himself out of a job and otherwords, make the players 0:35:46.680 --> 0:35:48.799 self sufficient enough they don't need to listen to this 0:35:48.880 --> 0:35:53.440 guy any longer. Do you believe that? Yeah? Absolutely, Yeah, 0:35:53.640 --> 0:35:57.000 it's more important. What was more important when we didn't 0:35:57.040 --> 0:36:00.600 have on court coaching. On court coaching ups a little 0:36:00.640 --> 0:36:04.360 bit because you can you can change the course or 0:36:04.400 --> 0:36:06.160 the direction of a match if it's not going in 0:36:06.200 --> 0:36:09.040 the right way. And that's where it empowers the coaches 0:36:09.120 --> 0:36:11.879 a little bit more and it helps us improve our 0:36:11.920 --> 0:36:15.799 craft and to give us a little more responsibility. If 0:36:15.840 --> 0:36:18.880 you don't have that, you've got to teach your player 0:36:18.920 --> 0:36:21.680 to problem solve all the time. And you wish to 0:36:21.680 --> 0:36:24.680 do that anyway. Now that's the role and the responsibility 0:36:24.719 --> 0:36:26.680 of a coach. But you'll get to a point. That's 0:36:26.680 --> 0:36:28.480 why I think the window of a tennis coach is 0:36:28.480 --> 0:36:30.600 about three or four years, because you get to a 0:36:30.719 --> 0:36:33.560 point where the player pretty much knows what you're going 0:36:33.600 --> 0:36:35.719 to say before you come down and say it, because 0:36:35.719 --> 0:36:39.560 they've heard it before. Right. It's tennis is about being 0:36:39.600 --> 0:36:43.040 brilliant at the basics, doing it over and over and 0:36:43.160 --> 0:36:45.080 over again. So if you're spending all this time on 0:36:45.120 --> 0:36:48.720 the court with one player, working through practice sessions, working 0:36:48.719 --> 0:36:52.160 through practice matches, going through the tapes of matches they play, 0:36:52.320 --> 0:36:55.759 you're picking out the parts of the matches where the 0:36:55.800 --> 0:36:59.160 players either doing great and you're reinforcing the positives, or 0:36:59.160 --> 0:37:01.440 the players not doing so great and you're trying to 0:37:01.480 --> 0:37:04.520 help them through that to throw different scenarios. Hey, you 0:37:04.520 --> 0:37:06.719 should have played the foehand down the line instead of 0:37:06.760 --> 0:37:09.120 going cross court, because you can't come cross court when 0:37:09.160 --> 0:37:11.400 you approach the net because it opens up too much angle. 0:37:11.719 --> 0:37:13.719 So you know, if your players just called you out 0:37:13.760 --> 0:37:16.040 onto the court and they pit two fourhand cross courts 0:37:16.080 --> 0:37:17.960 and come to the net, they know what you're about 0:37:18.000 --> 0:37:20.839 to say. Stop hitting the cross court forehand when you're 0:37:20.840 --> 0:37:22.640 coming to the net, take that ball down the line. 0:37:23.280 --> 0:37:25.520 So it'll get to a point where when they know 0:37:25.600 --> 0:37:28.919 what you're going to say is when you probably coach 0:37:28.960 --> 0:37:31.399 yourself out of a job and it might be time 0:37:31.520 --> 0:37:34.200 for a different voice and in a different way of 0:37:34.239 --> 0:37:35.840 doing things, in a different way of training, in a 0:37:35.840 --> 0:37:38.439 different way of approaching matches. And that's where I think 0:37:38.440 --> 0:37:40.320 the three or four window was about right. Three or 0:37:40.320 --> 0:37:43.319 four year windows about right. You see coaches seem to 0:37:43.360 --> 0:37:45.880 age about five years within one match as they're suffering 0:37:45.920 --> 0:37:47.920 the flare box over the I don't know how you 0:37:47.920 --> 0:37:50.960 stay so so youthful, so young look and so energized there, 0:37:50.960 --> 0:37:52.719 And you shouldn't. You should be You should be like 0:37:52.719 --> 0:37:54.480 a hundred and ten year old after all the big 0:37:54.480 --> 0:37:57.040 matches and all they complicated personalities and the ups and 0:37:57.080 --> 0:37:59.439 downs the players you've coached in your career, You keeping 0:37:59.400 --> 0:38:02.040 it together to well, my friend, for for all that 0:38:02.040 --> 0:38:05.279 that's the first lie that you've spoken today. Chris Valley, 0:38:05.440 --> 0:38:07.680 Darren says, the players that stress you the most as 0:38:07.680 --> 0:38:11.000 a coach are the ones that care the most about improving, 0:38:11.480 --> 0:38:15.200 and that that's a beautiful thing. After taking a day 0:38:15.280 --> 0:38:18.640 or two to recover in decompress after the intensity of 0:38:18.640 --> 0:38:21.439 the US Open, Darren and Nice circle back to talk 0:38:21.480 --> 0:38:25.440 about the captivating women's final and Novak Djokovic's bid to 0:38:25.480 --> 0:38:28.560 become the first man in fifty two years to complete 0:38:28.719 --> 0:38:31.480 the calendar Grand Slam. Well, Darren, you had an amazing 0:38:31.560 --> 0:38:34.960 courtside position, just a few steps behind the court, very 0:38:34.960 --> 0:38:39.480 near where the players chairs are as Djokovic tried to 0:38:39.520 --> 0:38:42.600 clear the last hurdle of need to get a Grand Slam. 0:38:42.600 --> 0:38:46.200 What an amazing perspective and what could you see from 0:38:46.200 --> 0:38:50.560 that vantage point about his mental state, the wear and tear, 0:38:50.680 --> 0:38:54.399 the pressure that was on him for that match. Yeah, Chris, 0:38:54.400 --> 0:38:56.080 I think it was a number of things. I think 0:38:56.080 --> 0:38:59.600 it really started from the pre match interviews, so on 0:38:59.600 --> 0:39:02.680 one of the a the analyst that are in that 0:39:02.719 --> 0:39:04.920 tunnel on Arthur Ours Stadium and do a couple of 0:39:05.040 --> 0:39:06.960 questions to each of the players walking out for those 0:39:06.960 --> 0:39:11.440 big matches. And honestly, from all the years that Novak's 0:39:11.440 --> 0:39:14.360 played on Arthur Ours Stadium, that was the first time 0:39:14.400 --> 0:39:16.719 when he walked towards me that you can actually hear 0:39:16.760 --> 0:39:20.120 the stadium reverberate through the through the tunnel, and that 0:39:20.200 --> 0:39:23.280 was the first time you could hear the whole stadium 0:39:23.400 --> 0:39:26.640 chanting Novak and he felt that it was like the 0:39:27.120 --> 0:39:30.839 tunnel was shaking, and I actually think that shocked him 0:39:30.840 --> 0:39:34.040 a little bit. As the tournament went along, he could 0:39:34.040 --> 0:39:36.720 feel that he was gathering more momentum and more support 0:39:36.760 --> 0:39:39.719 from the crowd. Things were coming becoming a little bit 0:39:39.800 --> 0:39:42.799 easier as far as embraced the crowd embracing him, but 0:39:42.800 --> 0:39:45.160 he was struggling with his game. But when he walked 0:39:45.239 --> 0:39:47.080 up for that pretty much interview, yeah, he was a 0:39:47.080 --> 0:39:48.759 little bit taken back, and I think I asked a 0:39:48.800 --> 0:39:51.560 simple question, you know, it's been an incredible year, and 0:39:51.600 --> 0:39:54.719 it's been a incredible career so far, but how much 0:39:55.040 --> 0:39:57.520 have you been looking forward to tonight on this stadium 0:39:57.640 --> 0:40:01.000 against this opponent? And yeah, he just took a couple 0:40:01.000 --> 0:40:02.920 of seconds and said, you know, this is what it's 0:40:02.920 --> 0:40:04.919 all about, and his cheeks kind of went a little 0:40:04.920 --> 0:40:08.120 bit red. And it was an amazing feeling. And had 0:40:08.160 --> 0:40:11.600 he won it and won the Grand Slam, it would 0:40:11.600 --> 0:40:14.320 have culminated in the greatest year that I've ever seen. 0:40:15.280 --> 0:40:17.000 And then I had the best seat in the house, 0:40:17.640 --> 0:40:21.240 sitting two rows back. It was about ten ft away 0:40:21.280 --> 0:40:26.319 from him and watching both Medvedev and Djokovic go about it. 0:40:27.160 --> 0:40:29.080 The first game of the match, I think was huge 0:40:29.239 --> 0:40:32.279 and you can always reflect a little bit easier after 0:40:32.320 --> 0:40:35.120 the match has finished. But he had his first service 0:40:35.160 --> 0:40:37.920 game and ended up losing his first service game, and 0:40:38.120 --> 0:40:39.960 that set him on the back foot straight away, and 0:40:40.000 --> 0:40:42.799 I think deep down he knew the tank was not full. 0:40:43.600 --> 0:40:47.120 He had to manage his physical levels all the way 0:40:47.120 --> 0:40:49.080 through that particular match, and there were periods in that 0:40:49.120 --> 0:40:51.239 match when he emptied the bucket to see if he 0:40:51.280 --> 0:40:53.759 could either get it back on level pegging or get 0:40:53.760 --> 0:40:56.319 that early breaker serve in the second set, and once 0:40:56.360 --> 0:40:59.120 he wasn't able to do that. A little bit reminiscent 0:40:59.200 --> 0:41:03.960 to the semifinal match against Zverev in Tokyo, he made 0:41:04.000 --> 0:41:06.120 a huge push late in the second set to get 0:41:06.120 --> 0:41:09.080 that breaker serve back, knowing that his energy levels were low, 0:41:09.560 --> 0:41:11.680 and once that didn't happen, it kind of fell apart 0:41:11.680 --> 0:41:16.239 pretty quickly after that. But just an amazing year. Incredible 0:41:16.360 --> 0:41:19.080 that he was able to do what he was able 0:41:19.120 --> 0:41:21.439 to do. I know that Federer has been one match 0:41:21.440 --> 0:41:23.520 away and had a twenty seven and one year before 0:41:23.560 --> 0:41:27.800 as well, But there is a difference between going one, two, 0:41:28.040 --> 0:41:32.360 three and everything culminating into the US Open with the pressure, 0:41:32.400 --> 0:41:36.000 with the expectation, with the eyes upon him. There's a 0:41:36.080 --> 0:41:38.799 build up of pressure and Serena felt it a few 0:41:38.880 --> 0:41:43.399 years ago and certainly no Vac felt it in the end. Yeah, 0:41:43.560 --> 0:41:46.640 you can't just push a button and find energy, and 0:41:46.680 --> 0:41:48.919 whether it's the wear and tear from the tough path 0:41:48.960 --> 0:41:52.080 to get to that final constantly falling behind a set 0:41:52.120 --> 0:41:54.200 down or that the pressure of the moment. I guess 0:41:54.239 --> 0:41:56.000 we'll never know, because even though he's been one of 0:41:56.040 --> 0:41:58.920 the great pressure players in the history of and maybe 0:41:58.920 --> 0:42:01.600 any sport. Uh, it was a lot for him. Did 0:42:01.600 --> 0:42:04.000 you did you sense early on that there was a 0:42:04.080 --> 0:42:08.680 weight on him, there was something other than the physical component, 0:42:08.760 --> 0:42:11.120 that that maybe he just couldn't find his gaming. We've 0:42:11.160 --> 0:42:13.640 seen him turn matches around so often here You've you've 0:42:13.680 --> 0:42:16.000 been in that same courtside position when all of a 0:42:16.080 --> 0:42:19.680 sudden the antenna goes up, he finds some energy and 0:42:19.719 --> 0:42:22.759 he pivots quickly, and we sort of waited for that 0:42:22.800 --> 0:42:25.600 to happen, and he just never could seemingly find the 0:42:25.680 --> 0:42:28.640 energy or overcome what was going on inside his head 0:42:28.680 --> 0:42:31.480 and his body. So the biggest telltale song for me 0:42:32.040 --> 0:42:34.160 is whether or not he's got balance on a lot 0:42:34.160 --> 0:42:36.120 of these ground strokes. And we'll see him sort of 0:42:36.120 --> 0:42:38.319 get the wobbly boots sometimes with his feet and his 0:42:38.400 --> 0:42:40.319 body as he makes a couple of mistakes. But he 0:42:40.440 --> 0:42:43.600 did that constantly. He spends so much time and talks 0:42:43.640 --> 0:42:46.919 so much about the mental preparation. I think does more 0:42:46.920 --> 0:42:49.040 in that department than almost any athlete, and I think 0:42:49.080 --> 0:42:51.320 he does it because he knows he has to. He's 0:42:51.400 --> 0:42:53.520 kind of a he says. I think he said to 0:42:53.560 --> 0:42:57.120 you that there's a volcano kind of inside his brain sometimes, 0:42:57.120 --> 0:42:59.120 and and and a storm, and I think that or 0:42:59.200 --> 0:43:01.640 Tornado actually said a tornado inside his head. And I 0:43:01.640 --> 0:43:05.360 think that because he's not naturally a calm person. He 0:43:05.400 --> 0:43:08.960 struggles with temper, he struggles with volatility, he's he's practiced 0:43:09.000 --> 0:43:11.840 these techniques that are often very successful, but we have 0:43:12.120 --> 0:43:15.160 under the pressure of this scene that come out. We 0:43:15.200 --> 0:43:17.200 haven't talked a lot about Tokyo, but he did lose 0:43:17.239 --> 0:43:20.359 his cool completely. They're smashing frames through a racket into 0:43:20.400 --> 0:43:23.719 the crowd um. Thankfully no one was in there. And 0:43:23.760 --> 0:43:27.600 then obviously had his moments where he just couldn't get 0:43:27.680 --> 0:43:31.359 himself calm and used those techniques at the US Open 0:43:31.400 --> 0:43:34.840 final as well, and that that I think was was 0:43:34.880 --> 0:43:37.240 a little bit surprising to see because he's done everything 0:43:37.239 --> 0:43:38.719 he can to be ready for those moments and it 0:43:38.800 --> 0:43:41.000 just didn't seem like he could get himself in the 0:43:41.080 --> 0:43:43.560 right mental state. I think it shows that he was 0:43:43.600 --> 0:43:46.160 pretty frazzled by the end of the US Open campaign 0:43:46.160 --> 0:43:48.239 and at Rolling Garriss, he did it. He had that 0:43:48.360 --> 0:43:51.320 amazing match against Rafa, that full set match in the Semis, 0:43:51.400 --> 0:43:52.920 and then he was a couple of sets down against 0:43:52.920 --> 0:43:55.440 Sits a pass and if you remember when he was 0:43:55.480 --> 0:43:58.239 two sets to one down and Stephanels took that toilet break, 0:43:58.239 --> 0:44:00.160 he sat there for about four or five minutes the 0:44:00.239 --> 0:44:02.360 change of ends, just looking staring into the crowd and 0:44:02.400 --> 0:44:03.840 he had a little bit of a rice smile on 0:44:03.920 --> 0:44:06.439 his face, but he had a laser like focus as well. 0:44:06.480 --> 0:44:09.240 And if you were watching that, you were thinking, oh, 0:44:09.280 --> 0:44:12.080 my goodness, this is just going to be paying for 0:44:12.080 --> 0:44:15.040 Stephanis to close this match out, because we've seen this 0:44:15.120 --> 0:44:17.759 so many times before. And you're absolutely right, Chris, we 0:44:17.800 --> 0:44:20.040 didn't see that in the final the US Open. I'm 0:44:20.080 --> 0:44:23.880 sure he tried. I'm sure he tried to get that 0:44:23.960 --> 0:44:27.840 focus and build that energy level back up to a 0:44:27.880 --> 0:44:29.640 point where he can make an all out of sault. 0:44:29.840 --> 0:44:33.480 But when your body is not cooperating, your mind doesn't 0:44:33.480 --> 0:44:35.400 cooperate the way you wanted to as well, and it 0:44:35.520 --> 0:44:37.879 just got to that point. And also on the other 0:44:37.880 --> 0:44:39.359 side of the court, you've got a guy that's playing 0:44:39.360 --> 0:44:41.520 inspired tennis as well. It was a mixture of what 0:44:41.680 --> 0:44:45.319 Novak had left in the tank and how good the 0:44:45.360 --> 0:44:46.960 other guy on the other side of the court was 0:44:46.960 --> 0:44:51.000 playing as well. Yeah, he showed no fragility, no frailty 0:44:51.080 --> 0:44:52.800 to know back, and I think that's what made Jokovic 0:44:52.840 --> 0:44:54.680 realized that it was going to be too tough of 0:44:54.680 --> 0:44:56.239 a client back. He didn't have it in it because 0:44:56.719 --> 0:44:59.120 never dropped his level to give him that hope or 0:44:59.120 --> 0:45:01.200 that belief. And I think the last thing on this 0:45:01.239 --> 0:45:06.240 match ironic you began with the description of the crowd noise. 0:45:06.320 --> 0:45:09.040 He's never got a welcome like that in any big 0:45:09.080 --> 0:45:11.680 match in his life. He's never gotten the love and 0:45:11.760 --> 0:45:15.000 support that I think he's craved and talked about craving 0:45:15.480 --> 0:45:17.320 the same way that feder and the doll have gotten 0:45:17.360 --> 0:45:19.600 that support in those big moments. And it's ironic that 0:45:19.920 --> 0:45:23.239 he finally gets it for a match throughout and he's 0:45:23.280 --> 0:45:26.520 not able to use it the way he hoped to. 0:45:26.719 --> 0:45:29.879 Wasn't able to gain inspiration or energy from it. In fact, 0:45:29.920 --> 0:45:32.800 he's been more successful in the past kind of drawing 0:45:32.920 --> 0:45:35.480 energy from the crowd that is not supporting him. And 0:45:35.560 --> 0:45:37.239 so that's what was too bad. You could see that 0:45:37.680 --> 0:45:39.880 sobbing at the end of the match, really before the 0:45:39.880 --> 0:45:42.880 match was over with one game to go. It was 0:45:42.960 --> 0:45:45.520 quite powerful. Yeah, yeah, it's what really Will said. It's 0:45:45.560 --> 0:45:47.719 kind of that me against the world philosophy, isn't it 0:45:47.760 --> 0:45:50.520 That when the crowd starts to pull for the underdog 0:45:50.680 --> 0:45:52.480 or get on him about a couple of things, that 0:45:52.560 --> 0:45:54.440 he just looks in and goes, you know what, I'm 0:45:54.440 --> 0:45:56.879 going to show you. I'm going to close this guy 0:45:56.880 --> 0:45:58.520 out and I'm going to have no mercy. And that's 0:45:58.520 --> 0:46:00.840 where his greatness comes from. So maybe it was a 0:46:00.880 --> 0:46:02.279 bit of a shock for him, But in the end, 0:46:02.320 --> 0:46:04.560 I think you look back on this year and be 0:46:04.640 --> 0:46:07.239 incredibly proud of what he's been able to achieve. And 0:46:07.800 --> 0:46:11.240 if he has craved that moment, that moment, that standing 0:46:11.280 --> 0:46:14.320 ovation that he got, that welcome from the crowd and 0:46:14.440 --> 0:46:16.680 Arthur Stadium, that will stay with him forever as one 0:46:16.719 --> 0:46:18.680 of the great moments, even though he did lose that match. 0:46:18.760 --> 0:46:21.920 So last start on the US Open, in contrast to 0:46:22.000 --> 0:46:24.760 the heaviness and the historic weight of the men's final, 0:46:25.000 --> 0:46:29.320 there was a lateness to the all teenager unseated women's final, 0:46:29.360 --> 0:46:31.759 with emiratic kind of over Layla Fernandez. They played with 0:46:31.800 --> 0:46:34.680 such joy and abandon and we've talked in this episode 0:46:34.680 --> 0:46:37.440 about pressure and what it does to the mind. It 0:46:37.560 --> 0:46:40.480 seemed that those two, maybe because they didn't know what 0:46:40.520 --> 0:46:42.680 they didn't know, just went out there in that final 0:46:42.760 --> 0:46:45.520 there and just and showed the joy and showed the 0:46:45.560 --> 0:46:49.360 freedom and the lightness that is so rare in a 0:46:49.400 --> 0:46:51.920 big occasion, especially for those that haven't been there before. 0:46:52.320 --> 0:46:58.319 Youth enthusiasm, fearlessness, that the ability to problem solve at 0:46:58.320 --> 0:47:00.960 such an young age was amazing. I think Fernandez did 0:47:00.960 --> 0:47:03.319 that time and time again throughout the tournament. Her run 0:47:03.360 --> 0:47:05.640 to the final was a little bit tougher, but it 0:47:05.680 --> 0:47:07.760 takes nothing away from what Emma did in the final, 0:47:07.880 --> 0:47:10.000 because I thought Fernandez had it in her to win 0:47:10.080 --> 0:47:13.359 that match. And again Rattakan, who just found another level 0:47:13.440 --> 0:47:15.560 every time she had to step up under pressure, she 0:47:15.600 --> 0:47:17.319 found a great shot, She didn't wait for the ball 0:47:17.360 --> 0:47:19.759 to be given to her, and she deserved every inch 0:47:19.760 --> 0:47:21.479 of that victory. And there's a lot to look forward 0:47:21.480 --> 0:47:23.560 to the next five years on the w t A Tour. 0:47:23.600 --> 0:47:27.600 So hopefully the tour they embraced this, they market it, 0:47:27.800 --> 0:47:30.239 and they pushed these youngsters and all these names that 0:47:30.280 --> 0:47:33.400 are doing such great things to the forefront. And the 0:47:33.440 --> 0:47:35.920 great thing for us being in the media is we 0:47:36.000 --> 0:47:38.800 recognize now a lot more names on the w t 0:47:38.960 --> 0:47:41.520 A Tour and it's a much much deeper than it 0:47:41.600 --> 0:47:43.480 was ten years ago. And that's a great thing. And 0:47:43.480 --> 0:47:46.600 hopefully on the A TP Tour we can get the same. Yeah, 0:47:46.640 --> 0:47:49.839 it was an incredible energize us open for for so 0:47:49.880 --> 0:47:53.360 many reasons. One of the best. Darren care Hill also 0:47:53.760 --> 0:47:56.719 one of the best a man. Grateful to Darren for 0:47:56.840 --> 0:48:00.520 his wisdom and his friendship. Now, the next episode in 0:48:00.520 --> 0:48:06.000 this podcast series is a toast to tequila, another topic 0:48:06.040 --> 0:48:09.600 that I'm very passionate about. My guest is the founder 0:48:09.640 --> 0:48:13.040 and CEO of my favorite brand of tequila, Costa Riconis, 0:48:13.480 --> 0:48:18.160 Berta Gonzalez the Avis. She is truly a pioneer. This 0:48:18.200 --> 0:48:21.520 is a great conversation about the entrepreneurial spirit, the inspiration, 0:48:21.560 --> 0:48:24.759 the challenges and rewards of that as told through tequila. 0:48:25.200 --> 0:48:27.160 I think you'll enjoy it. Keep an eye up for it. 0:48:27.760 --> 0:48:30.960 As always, I'm grateful to my co executive producer Jennifer 0:48:31.000 --> 0:48:34.400 Dempster and A Jason Whitehill for his editing Skills. Invite 0:48:34.440 --> 0:48:37.480 you to subscribe, rate, and review the podcast, and I'll 0:48:37.480 --> 0:48:38.120 talk to you soon.