Speaker 1: When I was twenty five, or even thirty or even
Speaker 1: thirty five. If you asked me what was more likely,
Speaker 1: would you be a rabbi or would you walk on
Speaker 1: the moon? I would have said walk on the moon
Speaker 1: because I had no inclination to be a rabbi. I
Speaker 1: had no desire to be a rabbi, and it just
Speaker 1: was this path that I started on. I had no concept,
Speaker 1: probably for the first of the journey that I was
Speaker 1: on a journey. It's a total surprise. Careers often take
Speaker 1: surprising turns. Before j Schuepack became a rabbi, he sold
Speaker 1: life insurance and worked as a psychologist, and before all
Speaker 1: that he was almost a professional actor. Now he's been
Speaker 1: a rabbi in Central organ for the past eighteen years,
Speaker 1: by far his steadiest job. On this edition of The
Speaker 1: Job brought to you by Express Employment Professionals, we'll hear
Speaker 1: his story of finding meaningful work in the last place
Speaker 1: he would have thought to look. I'm your host, Steve Mencher.
Speaker 1: If you want to find your next job, or if
Speaker 1: you're a company hoping to grow your workforce, Express Employment
Speaker 1: Professionals is for you. Find more information at express pros
Speaker 1: dot com. Now among those surprised by j Shupac's decision
Speaker 1: to become a rabbi, his son, producer Joel Shupac, who
Speaker 1: brings us this story. It's Friday afternoon, just before sunset,
Speaker 1: and I'm running down a quiet street in Bend, Oregon
Speaker 1: with Jay, my father. Why are we running? We're running,
Speaker 1: We're not interviewing seventy have to count my steps. This
Speaker 1: is new. He's always been a serious walker. He walks
Speaker 1: every day for at least an hour. But now running,
Speaker 1: that's good. Earlier in his office, I did notice a
Speaker 1: small sign on his desk that my mom must have painted.
Speaker 1: She's an artist. It read Jay can run. Why Why
Speaker 1: did I make you that sign? Because I asked her.
Speaker 1: I wanted an affirmation that says Jay can run because
Speaker 1: I was always told I couldn't run when I was little.
Speaker 1: When my dad was a kid, he had asthma that
Speaker 1: was so severe he really couldn't run. On the other hand,
Speaker 1: if you tell J. Shoepack there's something he can't do,
Speaker 1: there's a good chance will make a special effort to
Speaker 1: prove you wrong, even if it takes fifty years. It
Speaker 1: doesn't say how far. On the side steps at least
Speaker 1: After the short run, we're back to walking off of
Speaker 1: the neighborhood streets and into a park, although it's less
Speaker 1: of a park and more of a sliver of undeveloped
Speaker 1: land full of juniper trees, sage brush, and craggy volcanic
Speaker 1: rock outcroppings. Is this always where you write your sermons
Speaker 1: when you're walking? Um? Ever since I got a smartphone? Yeah,
Speaker 1: if I wasn't there walking with him, my dad would
Speaker 1: certainly be talking to himself. It's a trade I've picked
Speaker 1: up too. He uses this time alone to compose his thoughts,
Speaker 1: speaking them into his phone. When he comes up with
Speaker 1: something good, I just hit record and there it is,
Speaker 1: and it automatically saves it into a file. He shows
Speaker 1: me an example of the sermon he's working on, and
Speaker 1: God says, come, I will take your hand, and we
Speaker 1: won't go in togather to see Pharaoh. So this is
Speaker 1: loving kindness taking my hand. Right. But long before Rabbi
Speaker 1: j was talking to himself in a tiny stretch of wilderness,
Speaker 1: he was a boy, a boy who was told he
Speaker 1: couldn't run. I was born in Berwick, Pennsylvania, and we
Speaker 1: lived on a nice little street, very middle class Berwick
Speaker 1: is a small town on the Susquehanna River. A few
Speaker 1: years after he was born, they moved up to Kingston, Pennsylvania,
Speaker 1: about thirty miles upriver. His father, my grandfather, Charlie, had
Speaker 1: his own business. He was good with numbers, and he
Speaker 1: was good with people, and he was persistent, and he
Speaker 1: worked hard and and he made a living. He didn't
Speaker 1: make a great living, but he made a living. And
Speaker 1: that work ethic really made an impression on my dad.
Speaker 1: It was a particularly entrepreneurial work ethic that you that
Speaker 1: you created something out of nothing, that you saw an opportunity,
Speaker 1: or you risked your time and your money to multiply both.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's the idea. When Jay was quite young,
Speaker 1: he took that spirit and started selling TV guides throughout
Speaker 1: the neighborhood. He could buy them in bulk for thirteen
Speaker 1: cents apiece and sell them for a quarter. Was that
Speaker 1: your first job. It wasn't a job, it was a business.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's the difference you see. Because I was
Speaker 1: responsible for ordering them, and I was responsible for they
Speaker 1: would deliver them once a week to my house, and
Speaker 1: I had to count them and make sure if I
Speaker 1: ordered twenty seven. I got twenty seven, and let's say
Speaker 1: two of the covers were ripped. I had to get
Speaker 1: credit and then I would deliver them, and then I'd
Speaker 1: have to collect at the end of the month. I
Speaker 1: had to keep records. I had to keep track. I hadn't.
Speaker 1: I had to understand, you know, the profit and laws.
Speaker 1: Now these are very small numbers. You understand a TV
Speaker 1: guy was a quarter. But it's the same exact idea.
Speaker 1: You just add a few zeros and you got a
Speaker 1: real business. You know. So how old were you when
Speaker 1: you were doing that? I think I was eight. Later
Speaker 1: he mowed lawns, old flowers. I worked at the restaurants.
Speaker 1: I was scrubbing pots and dishes, and you know, I
Speaker 1: did bus boying where I would clear the tables and
Speaker 1: scrape all the food they didn't eat. I worked in
Speaker 1: a shoe store for a while, um and then I
Speaker 1: ran the bowling alley at the j c C for
Speaker 1: a while. These were all just summer jobs that he
Speaker 1: did up through high school, a way to make some
Speaker 1: spending money, but nothing he was ever very excited about.
Speaker 1: But then in his senior year he tried something new.
Speaker 1: He went out for the school play Fiddler on the Roof.
Speaker 1: You know, I almost didn't go into that play because
Speaker 1: they were going to do tryouts or something. I couldn't
Speaker 1: I didn't know where they were, you know, they were
Speaker 1: they were like downstairs. All the other doors were locked,
Speaker 1: except one door was opened in the whole high school.
Speaker 1: And I almost went home, and I wouldn't have been
Speaker 1: in the play, but I just like went. I tried
Speaker 1: one more door and it was open, and I walked
Speaker 1: in and I heard voices, and there they were, and
Speaker 1: you know, he found the audition and got himself apart. Nowadays,
Speaker 1: my dad has a saying, the most securely locked door
Speaker 1: is the one you don't even try to open. Good advice.
Speaker 1: I couldn't have a big part. I didn't want more
Speaker 1: than a few lines because I didn't have time to
Speaker 1: learn it and I wouldn't be able to reheard. He
Speaker 1: was on the gymnastics team and their practice was at
Speaker 1: the same time as the play rehearsal. So I had
Speaker 1: the smallest part, which is the Rabbi. That's right, the Rabbi.
Speaker 1: He only had a handful of lines, all of them
Speaker 1: comic relief. In the opening scene, someone asked the Rabbi
Speaker 1: if there's a proper blessing for the Czar, the ruler
Speaker 1: of Russia, who was certainly no friend of the Jews.
Speaker 1: The rabbi says, of course, may God bless and keep
Speaker 1: Thezar far far away from us. The rabbi role is
Speaker 1: a very minor role, so that could go like from
Speaker 1: the gym, and I could run down the hall and
Speaker 1: you know, jump on stage and do my little thing
Speaker 1: and then run back to the gym. I mean, when
Speaker 1: you when you talk about fither on the roof when
Speaker 1: I was a kid, you talked about like you were
Speaker 1: you were like you stole the show. I think it's
Speaker 1: a strong statement to say I stole the show because
Speaker 1: there was some wonderful actors, but I was special. I
Speaker 1: had a special presence. Um. You know how in one
Speaker 1: comes out for the for the final bow and everybody
Speaker 1: comes on to stage and and there was a very
Speaker 1: very significant rise in the level of applause when I
Speaker 1: came out. You know, that was that's for sure. And
Speaker 1: then when people wanted my autograph, that was a big
Speaker 1: deal because I was like, what are you kidding? Autograph?
Speaker 1: What I'm what? I'm Frank Sinatra. All of a sudden,
Speaker 1: you know, what is that. He thought that theater could
Speaker 1: really be something to pursue. Well, I really like theater.
Speaker 1: I mean it was it was great. I could learn
Speaker 1: lines really well. It wasn't a problem for me. I'm
Speaker 1: good with my voice, you know. So I have to
Speaker 1: be graduated from high school. He saw an opportunity and
Speaker 1: he took it. There was a traveling Shakespearean company that
Speaker 1: they would once a year, they'd come through. They'd go
Speaker 1: through all the little towns and they'd look for talent.
Speaker 1: They came to Wilkes Barre and they had to try
Speaker 1: out at the y m c A. And I went
Speaker 1: there and I tried out. I sang something for them,
Speaker 1: and I did a little monologue thing, and they said, great,
Speaker 1: you know you're in. We'd like you to come back
Speaker 1: to New York. But his acting ambitions were about to
Speaker 1: collide with one of the biggest natural disasters of the time.
Speaker 1: And then I drove home and it might have been
Speaker 1: nine o'clock at night, and my tires got wet on
Speaker 1: the Pure Street bridge. His tires got wet because the
Speaker 1: Susquehanna River had risen to the height of the bridge.
Speaker 1: It was Hurricane Agnes, which was flooding much of the
Speaker 1: East coast. That night, the river continued to rise, and
Speaker 1: the next morning Pinky shim Will came over and knocked
Speaker 1: on our door very loudly to wake us up and
Speaker 1: to tell us that we had to evacuate, that we
Speaker 1: were being evacuated. And then we went to Hazelton, which
Speaker 1: is where my parents are from, and we had a
Speaker 1: place to stay there, and we lived in Hazelton for
Speaker 1: three months until we could go back home. Yeah, the
Speaker 1: destruction of his town was severe. We had twenty one
Speaker 1: water on my street and and there was someone else's
Speaker 1: roo was on our front yard. When we came home,
Speaker 1: and our garage had floated and turned around so that
Speaker 1: we're used to drive into it was now you know,
Speaker 1: a wall you could I mean, it was uninhabitable and
Speaker 1: we had to clean everything out, wet carpet with six
Speaker 1: inches of mud on it. Everything was ruined. It was
Speaker 1: a biblical end to his acting career. Instead of moving
Speaker 1: to New York and joining the Shakespeare Troup, he stayed
Speaker 1: home with his family and helped them rebuild their lives.
Speaker 1: He never got back into theater. This was also a
Speaker 1: time he grew further away from the religion he grew
Speaker 1: up with. You know, I was raised very Orthodox, and
Speaker 1: then I really went very far away from it. You know,
Speaker 1: I didn't really want much to do with it. I
Speaker 1: didn't go to services for a long, long, long time.
Speaker 1: Despite that, he did have a strong connection to Israel
Speaker 1: and lived there in his early twenties. Then he met
Speaker 1: my mom in California. They got married and moved to
Speaker 1: Israel together, where my dad worked as a psychologist and
Speaker 1: I did. I was licensed there as a psychologist, but
Speaker 1: then it didn't It just wasn't that fulfilling and it
Speaker 1: didn't pay very well. I made like three a month.
Speaker 1: Then we came back to America. I didn't really have
Speaker 1: a path. I didn't really I want to be a
Speaker 1: you know, fill in the blank. I didn't want to
Speaker 1: be as something. I never really wanted to be as something.
Speaker 1: Then what what motivated you? What do you mean? I mean,
Speaker 1: what drove you? If you didn't have some passion to
Speaker 1: be something, then what was motivating you? Um? So my
Speaker 1: motivation was money, I guess. In other words, I had
Speaker 1: to pay for things. Had had a wife and a kid,
Speaker 1: and we had basically no money. So I had to
Speaker 1: find a job. So I I joined this thing called Haldane,
Speaker 1: and they taught you how to find a job, how
Speaker 1: to network that you write letters, you tell people, I
Speaker 1: understand you don't have anything for me, but I'd like
Speaker 1: to come in and show you what I'm trying to do,
Speaker 1: and maybe you'll know someone who might or maybe you
Speaker 1: could refer me. It was this whole referral network thing,
Speaker 1: and I borrowed money to do it. That was like
Speaker 1: three thousand dollars in two That was a lot of
Speaker 1: money for us. And one thing led to one thing
Speaker 1: led to one thing, and I got into the insurance
Speaker 1: business at Northwestern Mutual. All these insurance agencies will hire
Speaker 1: anybody because if you work out with them, then they
Speaker 1: make money from you. And if you don't make commissions,
Speaker 1: you're gonna quit, and they don't care. They it's a mill.
Speaker 1: The guys are gone within a year and a half. Anyways,
Speaker 1: I made a living selling life insurance for a while.
Speaker 1: It was hard, you know, it's prospecting and calling people
Speaker 1: making appointments. Nobody wants to see about life insurance. So
Speaker 1: I shifted my focus from death benefit to life benefit.
Speaker 1: In other words, that's why I shifted into pension planning.
Speaker 1: I started to do pension plans because you were not
Speaker 1: talking about they didn't have to die to get the benefit.
Speaker 1: They could live and get the benefit. How much better
Speaker 1: is that? It would still be over a decade before
Speaker 1: he would find his true calling. In a moment, you'll
Speaker 1: hear about one night that sent him on a very
Speaker 1: different path and what his life sounds like today. After
Speaker 1: the break, you're listening to independent producer Joel Shupac and
Speaker 1: his father, Rabbi J. Shupac. On the Job is brought
Speaker 1: to you by Express Employment Professionals. One company is on
Speaker 1: a mission to put a million people to work each year.
Speaker 1: Sounds like a big number, doesn't it not to Express
Speaker 1: Employment Professionals seeking a skilled labor position or administrative order.
Speaker 1: Maybe you're an executive looking for a career that fits supporting.
Speaker 1: We take pride in connecting the right people with the
Speaker 1: right company. Express Employment Professionals is on a mission to
Speaker 1: put a million people to work each year. Let us help.
Speaker 1: We'll open doors for you. Go to express pros dot
Speaker 1: com to find a location near you. And now back
Speaker 1: to Rabbi J. Shupack story of finding meaningful work. When
Speaker 1: we last heard from him, he was selling life insurance
Speaker 1: to support his young family. My dad sold life insurance
Speaker 1: for ten years. At some point during that time, he
Speaker 1: started to fill a poll back to Judaism, the religion
Speaker 1: of his childhood. I was twenty eight and it was
Speaker 1: Yung Kipoor and I hadn't been to services, maybe in
Speaker 1: a decade, and I wanted to go to services. Yum
Speaker 1: Kipor is one of the most important Jewish holidays. If
Speaker 1: you're Jewish and not religious, but want to do something,
Speaker 1: you'll probably go to services on Yom Kipor. Some synagogues
Speaker 1: even have these removable walls that they open just so
Speaker 1: they can fit all the people that only come once
Speaker 1: a year. And Ela is the name of the service
Speaker 1: that concludes Yum Kipor after a full day of fasting
Speaker 1: and prayer. It's the final hour of the holiest day
Speaker 1: on the Jewish calendar. I went from the Eli, went
Speaker 1: for the last hour of film key for the most
Speaker 1: holy hour of the year, the most powerful hour of
Speaker 1: the year. And I had a very strong experience. I
Speaker 1: really felt a connection to God. I felt communicated with
Speaker 1: In other words, a lot of times you pray, or
Speaker 1: at least in the tradition you pray, which means you're
Speaker 1: sort of talking to God. And that's a one way conversation.
Speaker 1: That's that's a monologue. And you don't know if you've heard.
Speaker 1: You don't know what it means. You don't know if
Speaker 1: there's any connection. You don't know anything. But on that
Speaker 1: day I felt that I I asked and I got
Speaker 1: an answer, and I said, you know, God, this is
Speaker 1: what I need in my life, and I felt I
Speaker 1: got an answer. Pretty Soon, our whole family was going
Speaker 1: to services every week, and pretty soon the rabbi there
Speaker 1: was asking Jay to take part in the service. After all,
Speaker 1: he knew how to read Hebrew and had a great
Speaker 1: singing voice. Even though it had been ten years since
Speaker 1: he'd been to a service, he still remembered all the
Speaker 1: songs and prayers. Eventually he became what's called a cantor,
Speaker 1: someone who leads the prayer and song. Meanwhile, he continued
Speaker 1: to sell life insurance, then got into some other business ventures.
Speaker 1: Many years passed and one day he was asked to
Speaker 1: lead a service at a Jewish retirement home and I
Speaker 1: let it. And then I did another one and another one,
Speaker 1: and I realized, oh that this is what I want
Speaker 1: to do I really like to do this. I don't
Speaker 1: want to be a cantor so much, which is just
Speaker 1: someone who sings. Turned to page sixty four. The cantor
Speaker 1: will now sing law. You know. I didn't want to
Speaker 1: do that. I wanted to I like being the rabbit.
Speaker 1: I decided what was in the service, what wasn't in
Speaker 1: the service, the pace of the service, the jokes, the
Speaker 1: whole thing, the style, and I wanted to do that.
Speaker 1: And before then it was just whatever was convenient, whatever worked,
Speaker 1: whatever I can make a buck at. It didn't matter
Speaker 1: to me. I'd sell flowers, I'd sell shoes, I'd cleaned
Speaker 1: pots and pans, i would sell life insurance. I didn't
Speaker 1: have any passion about any of it, really. But then
Speaker 1: the rabbi thing was different because it was like, oh,
Speaker 1: this is what I want to do, this is who
Speaker 1: I want to be. Because of all of the Jewish
Speaker 1: education of his childhood, he was able to get into
Speaker 1: this sort of fast track rabbinical program, and in a
Speaker 1: few years he was ordained. He started looking for a
Speaker 1: small town that needed a rabbi, and one of those
Speaker 1: places was Bend, Oregon. When your dad first showed up
Speaker 1: the first time, when he interviewed with us. This is
Speaker 1: Alice Husky. She was part of the synagogue and bend Ah.
Speaker 1: He and your mom came up and they had a
Speaker 1: thing that they did at the Sunday School. And so
Speaker 1: your mom and dad were in my classroom doing a
Speaker 1: puppet show. It's true. My mom is known to do
Speaker 1: puppet shows. And I was like, who are these people
Speaker 1: with puppets? And then I realized, Oh my god, people
Speaker 1: are fun. This is not the normal rabbi kind of
Speaker 1: guy you're expecting. I've been Jewish my whole life. When
Speaker 1: I became about Mitz for the rabbi was this lofty
Speaker 1: person who you went into his office and you sat
Speaker 1: across the big desk and yeah, there was not a
Speaker 1: whole lot of warmth and connection. Rabbi j he is.
Speaker 1: He is really truly a good leader in that respect
Speaker 1: that he's He's a person and a rabbi. I have
Speaker 1: many rabbis that I love, but Jay's my rabbi. He
Speaker 1: took that job eighteen years ago and has been there
Speaker 1: ever since. What I really like to do is to
Speaker 1: engage people in song and in prayer and and and
Speaker 1: a little talk and to and to give people an
Speaker 1: experience that if I'm really lucky, they get to experience
Speaker 1: what I experienced when I was twenty eight young, poor,
Speaker 1: And I'm not even sure if the people that come
Speaker 1: even of any idea that that's what they're supposed to get.
Speaker 1: Some people go just because their father went, or their
Speaker 1: mother winter, because their friend is there or something else.
Speaker 1: But I go because I want to create the environment,
Speaker 1: create the space for people to get what I got
Speaker 1: so many years ago. And sometimes I succeed at it,
Speaker 1: and sometimes I don't. What Jay has definitely succeeded at
Speaker 1: is creating a welcoming synagogue without any of the things
Speaker 1: that drove him away from religion, which would be flat
Speaker 1: on the floor from the reach and allow yourself to
Speaker 1: feel safe. I had memories of that. The rabbis were
Speaker 1: all about restriction. They were all about boundaries, narrowness, all
Speaker 1: that stuff that I didn't like. And some of things
Speaker 1: this week we got on and some things we didn't
Speaker 1: get time, and we forgive ourselves for what we didn't
Speaker 1: get done. I mean, we had a service yesterday and
Speaker 1: we sang songs and we read from Torah and we
Speaker 1: had a lot of joy. Yeah, and it didn't matter
Speaker 1: how anybody was dressed. Um. And they were non Jews too.
Speaker 1: I mean there's Christians that prey with us, there's non Jews.
Speaker 1: There's people that aren't sure what they are. They're kind
Speaker 1: of becoming Jews, they're not sure. They're you know, very
Speaker 1: interesting people. We have a wonderful cross section. Um. It's joyful,
Speaker 1: it's humble, it's as they say in Yiddish, it's hamish,
Speaker 1: it's warm, it's modest, it's not demanding. It's all the
Speaker 1: things that were not there when I was a boy.
Speaker 1: And in a certain way, it all connects back to
Speaker 1: the first time he tried on the role of being
Speaker 1: a rabbi on stage. And it's high school musical. I
Speaker 1: see the rabbi work as theater. It's a one man show.
Speaker 1: There's blocking, there's stagecraft, there's props, and there's a script.
Speaker 1: I mean the script is the seedor the script is
Speaker 1: the prayer book, creating the theater of communicating with God.
Speaker 1: And there's a lot of rigmarole. I mean, we we
Speaker 1: take the tour out, we make a pronouncement that we
Speaker 1: do a march with the Torah, and there's a certain
Speaker 1: rhythm and a style about it, and the same thing
Speaker 1: with when you read from the chart has a certain melody.
Speaker 1: So so actually it's not just theater, it's actually musical theater.
Speaker 1: It's it's a musical every time. Did you know that
Speaker 1: my dad, after high school was going to be an actor.
Speaker 1: This is Alice Husky Again. That probably doesn't surprise you
Speaker 1: at all, not at all. Most most rabbis and teachers
Speaker 1: are frustrated performers. They have a captive audience who have
Speaker 1: to put up with whatever they do. So I'm pretty
Speaker 1: sure that's part for the course. Yeah, and he could
Speaker 1: be a terrific actor. I think he did play in
Speaker 1: Fit around the Roof at some point. You know what
Speaker 1: his part was, the rabbi? It was it was typecasting
Speaker 1: or foreshadowing of things to come, I believe you. So,
Speaker 1: after all the years and different jobs and businesses, in
Speaker 1: a certain way, my dad did end up on stage
Speaker 1: with the only role he'd ever had. But instead of
Speaker 1: playing the rabbi, he lives it. I've watched people grow up,
Speaker 1: I've watched people grow old. I've I've buried people's parents,
Speaker 1: I've are mitsfed their sons. So there's a lot of
Speaker 1: deep connection and we get to share and we get
Speaker 1: to enjoy each other's lives, or you know, we get
Speaker 1: to cheer and laugh about our successes, and we get
Speaker 1: to cry and and console each other about our losses
Speaker 1: and our sadness. So it's very rich. It's a very
Speaker 1: rich life. Walking is the single best thing you can
Speaker 1: do for yourself. Three miles four miles a day cuts
Speaker 1: your mortality in half. Here what turned right? And we're
Speaker 1: back to where we started walking in the park behind
Speaker 1: my parents house. And then I read another thing where
Speaker 1: if you take fifty fiber a day that cuts mortality.
Speaker 1: I think it sounds like you're going to live forever
Speaker 1: if you do well. That's what I'm saying. You stuck
Speaker 1: with me for a long time. The place where my
Speaker 1: dad spends over an hour a day on a meander
Speaker 1: ring path that always leads him home. This is where
Speaker 1: I always say a blessing. Right here, Look at it,
Speaker 1: Isn't it gorgeous? See that birdes landing there in the
Speaker 1: tree and the sun's going down. The sun's down already,
Speaker 1: but there's light in the western sky, and the trees
Speaker 1: are just you can't even tell they're green anymore. All
Speaker 1: the colors out of him It's just so beautiful, and
Speaker 1: I always say a blessing here a show selling a
Speaker 1: niflat the one who makes for us wonders. And then
Speaker 1: I opened my arms wide. I just embraced the whole thing.
Speaker 1: I just love it so much. I'm so blessed. You've
Speaker 1: been listening to independent producer Joel Schupack presenting mozletop stories
Speaker 1: from a late in life Rabbi. And that's all for
Speaker 1: this edition of On the Job from Express Employment Professionals.
Speaker 1: Find out more at Express prose dot com, and you
Speaker 1: can listen to every podcast this season at Express prose
Speaker 1: dot com slash podcast. This podcast is produced by your host,
Speaker 1: Steve Mencher for Men's Media, I Heart Radio and Red
Speaker 1: Seat Ventures. You can subscribe on iHeart Radio and iTunes,
Speaker 1: where we hope you'll leave a nice review that helps
Speaker 1: other folks find us. And of course you can listen
Speaker 1: and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. See you next
Speaker 1: time On the Job