1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:04,720 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:08,280 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events, and you can turn back now 3 00:00:09,039 --> 00:00:11,200 Speaker 1: or learn the stuff they don't want you to know. 4 00:00:12,360 --> 00:00:26,720 Speaker 1: M Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, 5 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:29,319 Speaker 1: my name is Nolan. They call me Ben. You are you? 6 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:32,800 Speaker 1: And that makes this stuff they don't want you to know. 7 00:00:33,479 --> 00:00:37,200 Speaker 1: Everybody listening please wave a silent hello to our super 8 00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:40,200 Speaker 1: producer Paul Decont on the ones and twos. I'm doing 9 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:42,440 Speaker 1: it right now, and you guys are great at this. 10 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:44,360 Speaker 1: By the way, you guys should see Matt and all 11 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:47,920 Speaker 1: at this. I was thinking we could open this up 12 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:52,080 Speaker 1: with an out of context quote that will later turn 13 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:55,960 Speaker 1: out to be really important. Uh okay, alright, you ready? 14 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:57,560 Speaker 1: Are we gonna say who it's from. We're just doing 15 00:00:57,560 --> 00:01:01,800 Speaker 1: it totally out of contact you no attribution what so 16 00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:07,839 Speaker 1: if then ever? Perfect? All right? Agreements are the forces 17 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:12,080 Speaker 1: we used to locate ourselves in time and space. Everything 18 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:14,760 Speaker 1: that we do is from some agreement that we have 19 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:18,480 Speaker 1: set up. Everything that we have in this physical universe 20 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:21,959 Speaker 1: is something we have laid out and agreed to. Most 21 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 1: people never set time limits to their agreements, so they 22 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:31,000 Speaker 1: are forces that continue with no end. Okay, al right, 23 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:33,760 Speaker 1: out of contacts. We're just setting up this is this 24 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:38,360 Speaker 1: is ridiculous foreshadowing, but we do promise it comes into 25 00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:41,679 Speaker 1: play later. What are we talking about. Something hit the 26 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:46,480 Speaker 1: air waves just recently as we record this, and we 27 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 1: kind of knew it was coming, but not so soon. Yeah. 28 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 1: I had no idea of a figure that has been 29 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 1: in my life for ever since I was born, of 30 00:01:57,200 --> 00:02:01,200 Speaker 1: as a kind of a specter, sort of an American boogeyman. Yeah, 31 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:05,880 Speaker 1: that's a great phrase. Yes, we are talking today For 32 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 1: anyone who didn't read the title, Uh, we're talking today 33 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:14,240 Speaker 1: about the death of Charles Manson. Charles Manson is dead. 34 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 1: Charles Mills Manson died on November nineteen seventeen in the 35 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 1: Kent County Hospital of Bakersfield, California. Yeah, and never since 36 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:27,200 Speaker 1: I've been born, he's been in jail. He was incarcerated 37 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:30,640 Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy one and he was serving time in 38 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:34,680 Speaker 1: a California state prison outside of Bakersfield. And he was 39 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:37,320 Speaker 1: eighty three years old when he died. And after his death, 40 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:44,000 Speaker 1: Manson's grandson revealed that this former cult leader American boogeyman, 41 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:47,799 Speaker 1: like you said, had been in treatment for cancer. So 42 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:52,760 Speaker 1: as as large as Charlie Manson loomed over the culture, 43 00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:55,960 Speaker 1: this country, pop culture, all kinds of things. He's been 44 00:02:56,360 --> 00:03:00,799 Speaker 1: just this the specter, Like you said, he was human, 45 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 1: and he had been being treated for cancer for the 46 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:06,280 Speaker 1: past year, and it had been kept a secret and 47 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:10,800 Speaker 1: kept inside the family. And Manson died as he lived 48 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:14,160 Speaker 1: a disturbing figure. And again not to harp on it 49 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 1: too much, but I love that Phrasier came up with 50 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:20,520 Speaker 1: American Boogeyman, a disturbing figure and that was caught somewhere 51 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:27,519 Speaker 1: between a protagonist for some members of society and ubiquitously 52 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:31,080 Speaker 1: regarded as a symbol for the dark, fascinating fall of 53 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:33,560 Speaker 1: the so called hippie era. I think that's why the 54 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:36,120 Speaker 1: Boogeyman thing rings true for me, because that was such 55 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 1: a time of unhinged you know, opportunity, prosperity, potentially just 56 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 1: like you know, letting. It was like our country like 57 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:49,640 Speaker 1: spreading our wings and flying into our new destiny, and 58 00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:53,120 Speaker 1: there was this dark byproduct the summer of free love. 59 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 1: Turned out there was quite a price to pay. It 60 00:03:57,160 --> 00:04:00,960 Speaker 1: was an unhinged cult leader who despite decades of incarceration 61 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:04,960 Speaker 1: still managed to garner a following amid the loners, the outcast, 62 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:08,480 Speaker 1: and the mentally vulnerable the world over, and so a 63 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 1: lot of the people who are alive at the time 64 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:12,640 Speaker 1: when all of the press was coming out when these 65 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 1: crimes were committed by Charles Manson um people who saw 66 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 1: the trial and then the sentencing. Charlie Manson should have 67 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:24,120 Speaker 1: died a long time ago had California not suspended the 68 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:28,880 Speaker 1: death penalty on April nineteen seventy one. If they wouldn't 69 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:31,600 Speaker 1: have done that, he would have been long gone by 70 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:34,680 Speaker 1: this year. It's crazy, Ben, because it's like to his supporters, 71 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 1: it's almost as though he can have one right right 72 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 1: because he died in a hospital rather than a prison. 73 00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:47,920 Speaker 1: The single most significant aspect of Manson's turn as a 74 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:51,719 Speaker 1: cult leader and his criminal career is his masterminding of 75 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:55,599 Speaker 1: the infamous Tate Lebianca murders, and it leads us to 76 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:58,680 Speaker 1: a series of questions that you have probably heard examined 77 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:05,880 Speaker 1: at length before in documentaries, in adaptations, in other podcasts, 78 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:11,839 Speaker 1: and in numerous uh printed works. The questions all run 79 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:14,960 Speaker 1: around the same sort of orbit, which would be what 80 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:19,000 Speaker 1: possessed these people? What compelled otherwise normal people to join 81 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:22,800 Speaker 1: the Manson family and follow this fellow. How is Charles 82 00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:27,400 Speaker 1: Manson capable of such cunning manipulation? And are any of 83 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:30,800 Speaker 1: the conspiracy theories that surround Charles Manson and the entire 84 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:36,799 Speaker 1: Manson family are they true? Here are the facts we 85 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:39,479 Speaker 1: we we must start at this point, So we're we're 86 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:45,400 Speaker 1: journeying back to November twelfth four to answer these questions 87 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:52,440 Speaker 1: and sort of a circuitous, perhaps but accurate way, the 88 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:56,440 Speaker 1: most accurate we can find. Charles Manson was born Charles 89 00:05:56,920 --> 00:06:02,919 Speaker 1: Mills Maddox in Cincinnati, Ohio, there in November twelfth. His 90 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:06,520 Speaker 1: mother's name was Kathleen Maddox. She was sixteen at the time, 91 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:11,559 Speaker 1: and according to Manson, she originally named him no name 92 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:15,800 Speaker 1: Maddox in O space in a M. E. Maddox. His 93 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:21,919 Speaker 1: father is currently unknown, or at least publicly unidentified. Eventually, 94 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:26,680 Speaker 1: Charles Maddox took his stepfather's surname, which made him officially 95 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:32,479 Speaker 1: Charles Manson, and his earlier years were in a single word, horrific. Yeah. 96 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:34,520 Speaker 1: And what we've done has gone through some of the 97 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:38,200 Speaker 1: facts and fiction, some of the mythology here trying to 98 00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:41,239 Speaker 1: figure out what's what? And here are some of the 99 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:45,159 Speaker 1: the proven examples of terrible things that happened to the 100 00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:48,280 Speaker 1: young Charles Manson. As stuff is pretty bleak. Manson's mother 101 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:52,560 Speaker 1: sold him for a picture of beer to a woman 102 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:56,440 Speaker 1: who wanted to have children. Um, and his uncle had 103 00:06:56,480 --> 00:07:01,000 Speaker 1: to seek out this woman and get young Charles. Yeah, 104 00:07:01,279 --> 00:07:06,760 Speaker 1: apparently the story went to Charles's mother. Uh said, I 105 00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 1: heard the server. She was liking the server at this 106 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:11,400 Speaker 1: bar and said, you know, I heard you want kids. 107 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:13,680 Speaker 1: You can't have mine for a picture of beer. That 108 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:17,080 Speaker 1: they were joking. The server thought they were joking. She 109 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:22,160 Speaker 1: brought the beer and Uh, Manson's mom down the picture 110 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:28,200 Speaker 1: did a did uh dine in what is it? Dine 111 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:30,720 Speaker 1: and dash? That's the word, that's the phrase. She did 112 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 1: a dine and dash and left the baby. There's I mean, 113 00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:38,760 Speaker 1: she was clearly mentally bill in he's caught stealing and 114 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:42,080 Speaker 1: he's sent to a school for boys in Indiana and 115 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:45,120 Speaker 1: there from that point he spent the next two decades 116 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:50,600 Speaker 1: in and out of reform schools, juvenile detention, and eventually prison. Yeah. 117 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:53,760 Speaker 1: And then Manson himself alleged staunchly for his entire life 118 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 1: that he was sexually assaulted numerous times by multiple assailants 119 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:03,280 Speaker 1: while at this and other institutions, so saying that you know, 120 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 1: not only was his child childhood terrible, with all these 121 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:09,600 Speaker 1: things happen a mother who wouldn't even give him a name. 122 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 1: Then he moved on to living in these institutions where 123 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 1: he was just abused, at least according to Charles Manson, 124 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:22,480 Speaker 1: And as he continued committing crimes, being imprisoned and released, 125 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 1: then imprisoned again, he became a career offender, more comfortable 126 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:31,440 Speaker 1: arguably outside of the bounds of the law than within them. 127 00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:33,680 Speaker 1: And then in nineteen sixty seven, when he was set 128 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:37,120 Speaker 1: to be released from prison, he actually begged to stay 129 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:40,199 Speaker 1: inside the jail. He said he was incapable of living 130 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:43,319 Speaker 1: outside the walls of the prison, as though I can 131 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:46,240 Speaker 1: function inside here, but not out there anymore, because this 132 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:49,400 Speaker 1: is my new home. And that's I mean, that's sad. 133 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:54,319 Speaker 1: But it's also something we've kind of heard before, where 134 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:56,960 Speaker 1: once you get used to that the structure of a 135 00:08:57,000 --> 00:09:01,120 Speaker 1: prison life, it's very difficult to unchin outside. It was 136 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:05,160 Speaker 1: that like in the Shawshank Redemption, where when Morgan Freeman's 137 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:07,280 Speaker 1: character finally gets released at the end, and he just 138 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:10,880 Speaker 1: doesn't know how to go about day to day life 139 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:13,200 Speaker 1: because he's been in for so long. It's a real 140 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:15,920 Speaker 1: thing that real people experience all the time. It makes sense, 141 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:18,160 Speaker 1: but it is absolutely, as you said, quite quite sad. 142 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:22,800 Speaker 1: And what a world Charles Manson found when he was 143 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:26,439 Speaker 1: released in nineteen sixty seven. This is, as we said, 144 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:31,400 Speaker 1: the height of the free love movement. Hate Ashbury becoming 145 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:36,839 Speaker 1: a mecca of sorts, uh, a holy site for this 146 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 1: ideology which is sweeping the nation, running counter to US 147 00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:48,480 Speaker 1: foreign policy in Vietnam and abroad. Manson is by now 148 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:51,880 Speaker 1: a hardened criminal, and he's released from a place called 149 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 1: McNeil Island Prison in Washington State. Uh. He had at 150 00:09:55,880 --> 00:09:59,200 Speaker 1: this point been serving seven years for transporting women across 151 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:04,960 Speaker 1: state lines the purpose of prostitution and also for forging checks. Yeah. 152 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:09,080 Speaker 1: He traveled to San Francisco and he attracted a following 153 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:14,720 Speaker 1: among many rebellious young people with troubled emotional lives, sort 154 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:16,520 Speaker 1: of a drift in the world. He was a little 155 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:19,720 Speaker 1: older than most of his followers, he was thirty two 156 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:25,760 Speaker 1: years old. And there was this amazing people described it 157 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:29,720 Speaker 1: as almost palpable feeling in the air that the world 158 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:32,680 Speaker 1: could be changed in a positive way, that with enough 159 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:37,199 Speaker 1: positive thought we might be able to set things right. 160 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:44,480 Speaker 1: And he embraced this mysticism wholeheartedly. Yeah. I mean, I 161 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:47,280 Speaker 1: think think about his life up until this point. This 162 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:50,320 Speaker 1: is why it's so important. Let's just say for argument here, 163 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:55,280 Speaker 1: Manson probably hasn't experienced a whole lot of physical love 164 00:10:55,679 --> 00:10:57,960 Speaker 1: the way a child would throughout their life and then 165 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:02,160 Speaker 1: growing up maybe a teenager and then maybe a twenty something. Um, 166 00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:05,440 Speaker 1: he there is free love, free food, lots of hugging, 167 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:10,040 Speaker 1: there's there's marijuana, there's acid. They're girls, so many, so 168 00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:13,760 Speaker 1: many girls. Do you say, lots of hugging. Lots of hugging. 169 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:18,440 Speaker 1: I mean yeah, yeah, hugging and just touching like um, 170 00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:22,080 Speaker 1: affectionately without strings attached to kind of thing. I mean, 171 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:26,160 Speaker 1: anyway I'll walk down the street without some GIBRONI trying 172 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:28,320 Speaker 1: to put their arms around you, yeah, and just be like, 173 00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:30,360 Speaker 1: you know what, everything's good man. It was a real 174 00:11:30,559 --> 00:11:35,120 Speaker 1: hug so But but specifically, and not jokingly, we're talking 175 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:38,400 Speaker 1: about these women, these young women that he ended up 176 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:43,720 Speaker 1: being around, most of them lost girls or lost girls, um, 177 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:47,440 Speaker 1: looking for someone to tell them that they'd been found 178 00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:49,880 Speaker 1: in some way in a place that would accept them. 179 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 1: Remember that book, Go ask Alice, did you have to 180 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:55,000 Speaker 1: read that in high school? It's like about the girl 181 00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:59,280 Speaker 1: who leaves home and becomes like when she's on LSD 182 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:03,240 Speaker 1: and up like and horrible situations, but it's that total 183 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:06,200 Speaker 1: lost girl kind of scenario. And I believe it turned 184 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:09,000 Speaker 1: out that book was kind of just like almost borderline propaganda, 185 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:12,360 Speaker 1: but it was so effective because it was a real story, 186 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:14,640 Speaker 1: you know, in terms of like that type of thing 187 00:12:14,679 --> 00:12:17,360 Speaker 1: happened quite often. And a guy like Manson would be 188 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:21,280 Speaker 1: the perfect um, I don't know, it's they would be 189 00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:24,360 Speaker 1: the perfect mark for a guy like Manson who kind 190 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:26,440 Speaker 1: of had his wiles, and you know it was a 191 00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:29,880 Speaker 1: musician and kind of seen as this like edgy kind 192 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:32,760 Speaker 1: of figure. You know, well, yeah, he he had a 193 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:36,920 Speaker 1: certain set of skills, right right, Yes, he he thrived 194 00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:41,480 Speaker 1: this guru slash fill in father figure, played the guitar. 195 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:46,200 Speaker 1: He had that dangerous mystique of an ex con. And 196 00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:48,920 Speaker 1: one thing that's interesting is he studied a lot of 197 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:52,240 Speaker 1: stuff extensively in prison. We'll get to some of that. 198 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:57,520 Speaker 1: And when he landed and hate Ashbury, he walked around 199 00:12:57,720 --> 00:13:02,199 Speaker 1: and listened to the various street preachers, the various poets 200 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:05,959 Speaker 1: and prophets, and picked the pieces of their What they 201 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:08,440 Speaker 1: called raps at that time doesn't resemble the kind of 202 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:12,520 Speaker 1: rap that we listened to today. Uh more like a 203 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:18,800 Speaker 1: a almost free flowing, occasionally rhyming, um declarative mode of speech. 204 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:21,520 Speaker 1: It was almost just that, like that cadence of like 205 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:26,280 Speaker 1: a revival preacher, a big tent revival preacher or something 206 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:29,719 Speaker 1: like that. In a way, yeah, stuff you could dig, right, 207 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:34,400 Speaker 1: And so he agglomerated this and created his own sort 208 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:38,480 Speaker 1: of mixtape of that you can be free metaphysical rap, 209 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:43,520 Speaker 1: and people loved it. He started garnering followers like Mary Brunner, 210 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:48,360 Speaker 1: Lynnette from later known as Squeaky Shusan Atkin, Sandra Good, 211 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:51,960 Speaker 1: and this was the beginning of what prosecutors would later 212 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:54,960 Speaker 1: call the Family with a capital lef Yeah, and the 213 00:13:55,000 --> 00:14:00,400 Speaker 1: family eventually moved to Los Angeles because Manson wanted to 214 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:04,000 Speaker 1: be a rock star, and he actually was successful, at 215 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:07,720 Speaker 1: least in making some good contacts. He was friends with 216 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:10,360 Speaker 1: Dennis Wilson from the Beach Boys. Belie. There's even an 217 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:13,560 Speaker 1: incident where he cut him or they cut his ear off, 218 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:15,520 Speaker 1: or something like that. What was that about? They got 219 00:14:15,559 --> 00:14:18,040 Speaker 1: it did turn ugly. Yeah, we'll get to that. We'll 220 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:19,920 Speaker 1: get to that. But he was also friends with a 221 00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:22,840 Speaker 1: very well known record producer by the name of Terry Melcher. 222 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:24,800 Speaker 1: And just to give you a little taste, you guys 223 00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:29,120 Speaker 1: might have heard this, but yeah, Manson wasn't very good musician. 224 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:36,040 Speaker 1: And here's an example. Oh garbage dump, Oh garbage dump. 225 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:43,560 Speaker 1: Why you're called a garbage dump? Oh garbage dump? For 226 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:53,440 Speaker 1: garbage dumb? Why are you called a garbage dumb? That 227 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:57,920 Speaker 1: was a snippet of garbage dump by Charles Manson. Why 228 00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:00,040 Speaker 1: do they call it a garbage dump? That's the the 229 00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:04,840 Speaker 1: you know, that's the question. That's a great question. Uh yeah, 230 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:07,160 Speaker 1: but yeah, you know, I think I think that's interesting. 231 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:11,680 Speaker 1: It's great to put that in context because he learned 232 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:17,000 Speaker 1: a slide guitar originally while he was incarcerated, and so 233 00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:20,840 Speaker 1: much of an individual success in the music industry then, 234 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:26,640 Speaker 1: as today, hinges upon one's charisma, and there are there 235 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:29,360 Speaker 1: are critics of plenty who will tell you that such 236 00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:31,320 Speaker 1: and such and so and so we're skating by on 237 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:38,520 Speaker 1: charisma rather than musical merit. However, after after Manson was 238 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:41,800 Speaker 1: making these connections along with his family is an entourage 239 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:46,560 Speaker 1: by the way he racked up uh Dennis Wilson claims 240 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:51,520 Speaker 1: that the family racked up a hundred thousand dollars plus 241 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:58,760 Speaker 1: and expenses for food, for drugs for socially transmitted disease treatment, 242 00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:04,680 Speaker 1: and this arker turn occurs in nineteen sixty nine. Manson 243 00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:08,400 Speaker 1: had always been physically and emotionally abusive to the women 244 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:11,560 Speaker 1: under his sway, but with the release of The Beatles 245 00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:16,520 Speaker 1: White Album, he took a sharp turn into apocalyptic beliefs, 246 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:22,040 Speaker 1: signified perhaps most apparently by his complex interpretation of the 247 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:27,000 Speaker 1: song Helter Skelter by The Beatles. Yeah, that's not a 248 00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:29,720 Speaker 1: bad that's not a bad one, man. I'm glad that 249 00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:31,640 Speaker 1: you put some levity in here, because we're gonna need 250 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:35,840 Speaker 1: it in a little bit. We can't play a clip 251 00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:38,920 Speaker 1: from that song because it's the Beatles, right, We can't 252 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 1: legally play one for you, but we can invite you 253 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:45,000 Speaker 1: to check out the song if you haven't heard it before. 254 00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:48,360 Speaker 1: Should we just do a little lyrics snippet perhaps, Yeah, 255 00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:50,880 Speaker 1: maybe a reading to a little reading. So here's a 256 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:53,880 Speaker 1: snippet from the lyrics. Elder Scott is actually pretty pretty 257 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:57,040 Speaker 1: simple lyrics, but Manson really took a lot out of it. 258 00:16:57,040 --> 00:16:59,480 Speaker 1: It goes like this, when I get to the bottom, 259 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:01,520 Speaker 1: I go back to the top of the slide where 260 00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:03,320 Speaker 1: I stop and I turn and I go for a 261 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:05,840 Speaker 1: ride until I get to the bottom and I see 262 00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:09,840 Speaker 1: you again. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Hey, do you don't you 263 00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 1: want me to love you? I'm coming down fast, but 264 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:14,399 Speaker 1: I'm miles above. You tell me, tell me, tell me, 265 00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:16,560 Speaker 1: come on, tell me the answer. Well, you may be 266 00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:20,919 Speaker 1: a lover, but you ain't no dancer. Helter skelter, helter skelter, 267 00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:26,680 Speaker 1: helter skelter. Yeah, and man, what Charles Manson heard when 268 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:29,840 Speaker 1: he listened to those lyrics and the music combined was 269 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:34,399 Speaker 1: something um beyond what I interpret when I listened to 270 00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:37,520 Speaker 1: the song. And let's get exactly into what he thought 271 00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:46,240 Speaker 1: it meant after a quick word from our sponsor. So Manson, 272 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:49,480 Speaker 1: from these lyrics are using these lyrics as a basis 273 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:54,480 Speaker 1: or a foundation, told his followers, as he was building 274 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:58,639 Speaker 1: them into a cult that he had an epiphany of 275 00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:02,199 Speaker 1: sorts and revelation from the lyrics of Helter Skelter. He 276 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:05,960 Speaker 1: did not see it as his interpretation. He saw it 277 00:18:06,119 --> 00:18:11,480 Speaker 1: as a divine message to himself. He also believed that 278 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:14,720 Speaker 1: all people were God h He saw it as a 279 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:19,679 Speaker 1: divine message that a race war was imminent, specifically between 280 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:22,679 Speaker 1: the white population of the United States and the black population, 281 00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:28,000 Speaker 1: that the black population would win, but be, according to 282 00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:33,240 Speaker 1: his beliefs, inherently unable to self govern, and that during 283 00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:36,960 Speaker 1: the race war, the family, the Manson family would hide 284 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:40,919 Speaker 1: out in an underground cave, a cavern system that he 285 00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:44,760 Speaker 1: called the Bottomless Pit, the land of Milk and Honey. 286 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:48,240 Speaker 1: And after the race war, when all the quote unquote 287 00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:51,040 Speaker 1: pigs and the and the squares and the other white 288 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:55,080 Speaker 1: people were dead from America, that would emerge five ruling 289 00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:58,480 Speaker 1: angels Manson who would play the role of a new 290 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:02,359 Speaker 1: Jesus Christ, a company by his disciples, and the four 291 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:09,600 Speaker 1: members of the musical group the Beatles. Wow sounds pretty compelling. 292 00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:14,160 Speaker 1: Um I yeah, it sounds like you know, it's weird 293 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:17,159 Speaker 1: because it sounds like a lot to take in. It 294 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:19,960 Speaker 1: sounds like a tall milkshake when you're just when you're 295 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:23,240 Speaker 1: just hearing it laid out as an elevator pitch sounds 296 00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:27,520 Speaker 1: like level three, right right. We have to be careful 297 00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:32,640 Speaker 1: and that's right, Matt, not for nothing. But we are 298 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:37,080 Speaker 1: definitely we are definitely going to have to mention how 299 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:40,760 Speaker 1: our good buddies the Church of Scientology at some point later, 300 00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:43,840 Speaker 1: either in this episode or in part two, if we 301 00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:46,400 Speaker 1: get to a part two. The thing is with these 302 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:51,080 Speaker 1: sorts of beliefs, with any belief that seems unreasonable, we 303 00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:53,800 Speaker 1: have to realize the context in which it occurs. It's 304 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:57,560 Speaker 1: like the salesperson footing the door technique. You don't get 305 00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:00,800 Speaker 1: all of this at once. You get it after your time, 306 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:04,280 Speaker 1: your money, and your mental energy have become sunk cost, 307 00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:09,880 Speaker 1: which we're borrowing a phrase from economics, and the point 308 00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:13,080 Speaker 1: is that you feel like every time you've been like, well, 309 00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:15,720 Speaker 1: I've already put this much time in, I just have 310 00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:18,600 Speaker 1: to keep going, right, Like if you're watching a movie 311 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:21,760 Speaker 1: that's four hours long and you're three hours and forty 312 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:25,480 Speaker 1: minutes into it, can't just stop and I'm like, oh God, yeah, 313 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:26,960 Speaker 1: what am I gonna do? I gotta see it to 314 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:32,359 Speaker 1: the end. Manson's descent into madness began at a place 315 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:34,680 Speaker 1: called really kicked into gear, we should say a place 316 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:37,639 Speaker 1: called spawn Ranch, span Ranch. I just want to know, 317 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:39,680 Speaker 1: like how he took so much meaning from those simple 318 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:41,679 Speaker 1: Beatles lyrics, like what if you had just seen a 319 00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:44,080 Speaker 1: kid playing on a slide? You think you would have 320 00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:47,919 Speaker 1: had the same revelation. Interesting. I think maybe when you 321 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:51,720 Speaker 1: combine the musical portion of that song with perhaps the 322 00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:56,120 Speaker 1: right cocktail of drugs or you know, whatever you're going through, 323 00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:58,720 Speaker 1: and some of the other ideas that were already kind 324 00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:02,760 Speaker 1: of seeping into him, like triggering, or the right confidence 325 00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:07,840 Speaker 1: in the right um like lamania. That's a perfect word, Matt. 326 00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:12,960 Speaker 1: After the falling out with Dennis Wilson, the family relocated 327 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:15,760 Speaker 1: to this ranch, which was about twenty miles away from 328 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:19,200 Speaker 1: Los Angeles, but a very different environment. And we can 329 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:21,679 Speaker 1: give you a little bit of a little bit of 330 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:25,400 Speaker 1: background because the ranch is an interesting place. Yes. Spawn 331 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:29,120 Speaker 1: Ranch was founded in eighteen eighty five, and after changing 332 00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:31,480 Speaker 1: hands a number of times, it became the property of 333 00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:35,160 Speaker 1: George Spawn in nineteen fifty three. Is this you're doing, 334 00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:38,040 Speaker 1: like the resort style commercial for Spawn Ranch. That's exactly 335 00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:41,000 Speaker 1: what's happening. I was I was hoping for a Robin Leech, 336 00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:44,640 Speaker 1: but this is great too. In nineteen sixty eight, when 337 00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:47,280 Speaker 1: the family came to the ranch, Spawn was in his 338 00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:52,360 Speaker 1: late seventies, terribly lonely and mostly blind. His wife managed 339 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:55,040 Speaker 1: the property, but the two didn't seem to have a 340 00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:58,840 Speaker 1: close relationship, and Spawn let out of work ranch hands 341 00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:02,679 Speaker 1: live on the property exchange for labor. At the time, 342 00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:06,240 Speaker 1: the ranch was occasionally used as a backdrop in TV shows, 343 00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:10,800 Speaker 1: and it also made money renting horses to tourists. Interesting 344 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:14,479 Speaker 1: side note, this area had hosted cults before the nineteen 345 00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:17,400 Speaker 1: forties and fifties. There was another cult called the Fountain 346 00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:20,440 Speaker 1: of the World in nearby Box Canyon. They were led 347 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:24,840 Speaker 1: by a charismatic figure who called himself Krishna Venta, although 348 00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:26,840 Speaker 1: of course that was not his birth name. They built 349 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:30,440 Speaker 1: a monastery on the property. Charles Manson himself allegedly had 350 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:34,800 Speaker 1: been at the monastery some time before or after. Disgruntled 351 00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:39,600 Speaker 1: X members blew up the building in ninety eight, killing 352 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:43,280 Speaker 1: Venta and seven others. Those two ex members who blew 353 00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:46,440 Speaker 1: it up, by the way, uh did so because, as 354 00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:50,679 Speaker 1: is so common in many cults of personality, the leader 355 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:54,760 Speaker 1: had a revelation that he should be sleeping with everybody's wife. Yep. 356 00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:59,880 Speaker 1: And actually there was a pretty interesting account of Manson 357 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:02,720 Speaker 1: at Spawn Ranch that came out not long after he 358 00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:06,359 Speaker 1: passed away, Brian Cranston from Breaking Bad and Malcolm in 359 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:10,159 Speaker 1: the Middle Fantastic actor who was sixty one, wrote on 360 00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:14,720 Speaker 1: social media quote, hearing Charles Manson is dead, I shuddered. 361 00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:17,760 Speaker 1: I was within his grasp just one year before he 362 00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:21,360 Speaker 1: committed brutal murder in nineteen sixty nine. Luck was with 363 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:23,840 Speaker 1: me when a cousin and I went horseback riding at 364 00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:27,359 Speaker 1: the Spawn ranch and saw the little man with crazy eyes, 365 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:32,600 Speaker 1: whom the other hippies called Charlie. Interesting. What a web 366 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:37,400 Speaker 1: we see weaving here? And you know, regardless of the 367 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:41,560 Speaker 1: previous Cults activities in the forties and fifties, Charles Manson 368 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:45,320 Speaker 1: and George Spawn came to an understanding. The family. They 369 00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:48,680 Speaker 1: decided would live on the property, help out around the ranch, 370 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:51,640 Speaker 1: and in exchange, the female members of the family would 371 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:56,240 Speaker 1: attend to George Spawn's daily needs, including everything from cooking 372 00:23:56,640 --> 00:24:02,639 Speaker 1: and cleaning to laundry and sexual satiation. For Manson, however, 373 00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:08,000 Speaker 1: there was a much much more important and perhaps sutler advantage. 374 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:12,280 Speaker 1: He would finally have the followers of the Manson family 375 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:19,280 Speaker 1: isolated from the world and completely subsumed into his influence. Yeah, 376 00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:21,840 Speaker 1: it was during this time at the Spawn Ranch that 377 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:26,720 Speaker 1: he began really working on these techniques that are common 378 00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:30,520 Speaker 1: to cult leaders. He was a big fan of forcing 379 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:37,040 Speaker 1: dissociative states on his followers through drug use largely and 380 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:39,520 Speaker 1: also the kind of emotional and physical abuse you could 381 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:43,040 Speaker 1: probably imagine as well. UM. This allowed him to remove 382 00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:48,080 Speaker 1: a sense of self, ego, and esteem UM from his 383 00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:51,040 Speaker 1: followers uh. And some of these techniques included things like 384 00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:55,760 Speaker 1: mandatory orgies. UH. He also compelled his followers to listen 385 00:24:55,800 --> 00:25:00,400 Speaker 1: to long, repetitive lectures on the coming race war and 386 00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:04,520 Speaker 1: UM as the cult began to take this darker, more 387 00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:09,440 Speaker 1: sinister and violent turn. UM. During this time, these times 388 00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:14,960 Speaker 1: of isolation, the ranch Handsum at the ranch and as 389 00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:19,280 Speaker 1: well as the Spawn's estranged wife warned him to to 390 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:21,920 Speaker 1: take it easy. Take it easy, George, you really need 391 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:24,840 Speaker 1: to distance yourself from this guy. He's uh, he's he's 392 00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:27,320 Speaker 1: kind of freaking us out. Yeah, he's kind of freakings out. 393 00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:31,520 Speaker 1: Even Brian Cranston doesn't like and everybody loves Brian. This 394 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:37,960 Speaker 1: so this shows us, Um shows us a very disturbing 395 00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:41,000 Speaker 1: pattern that's common in a lot of cults in the past. 396 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:45,320 Speaker 1: We have asked ourselves you know what is the difference 397 00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:48,760 Speaker 1: between a religious movement and what's the difference between a cult, 398 00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:52,520 Speaker 1: because one person's true religion is another person's cult, and 399 00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:57,080 Speaker 1: is the term cult just always a pejorative. We did 400 00:25:57,240 --> 00:26:02,320 Speaker 1: a YouTube episode, right was just I We did one, 401 00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:07,280 Speaker 1: I think episode on the common practices of cults, and 402 00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:13,040 Speaker 1: we highly recommend it because the steps are almost distressingly 403 00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:16,320 Speaker 1: and eerily similar from one cult to the next. You 404 00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:20,760 Speaker 1: can also see some neat vignette's cameos featuring Charles Bryant 405 00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:25,080 Speaker 1: from Stuff You Should Know and Jonathan Strickland from Tech 406 00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:27,960 Speaker 1: Stuff of Tech Stuff Fame. Yeah, and you can also 407 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:30,720 Speaker 1: see how some of these same techniques you would use 408 00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:34,680 Speaker 1: to garner a following in that way are used outside 409 00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:41,879 Speaker 1: of cult activities as psychological almost weapons to get people 410 00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:44,560 Speaker 1: to do certain things. When you look at I don't 411 00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:47,640 Speaker 1: want to get too dark, but you look at marketing 412 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:50,320 Speaker 1: and pr sometimes and you see some of these same 413 00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:54,760 Speaker 1: things occurring. Oh absolutely, And just to plant the seed 414 00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:59,080 Speaker 1: for later discussions about magic and the occult, I'm always 415 00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:01,959 Speaker 1: drawn back to one of my favorite quotes from our 416 00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:05,720 Speaker 1: friend Damian Patrick Williams, who said, if you have problems 417 00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:08,439 Speaker 1: believing in magic as a concept. Just think of it 418 00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:11,480 Speaker 1: as weaponized psychology. And when you think about that, it 419 00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:17,240 Speaker 1: makes a much more real So as Asnal said, things 420 00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:21,720 Speaker 1: are getting dire, right, Manson is lying to his followers 421 00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:25,359 Speaker 1: and probably to himself. You know, there's a there's a 422 00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:30,399 Speaker 1: certain uh, there's a certain necessity and believing one's own 423 00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:34,960 Speaker 1: rap as they would call it. And he told them, 424 00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:38,159 Speaker 1: you know, they were hunting for this enormous cavern, Helter 425 00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:41,160 Speaker 1: Skelter was on the way, and they have chosen few. 426 00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:44,640 Speaker 1: That's another thing very common with cults. Would safely wait 427 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:48,920 Speaker 1: out the coming army Gedton. Eventually, you see, what happened 428 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:52,399 Speaker 1: is that Manson grew tired of waiting for the world 429 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:56,080 Speaker 1: to end, and he told his followers to prime the pump, 430 00:27:56,640 --> 00:28:01,919 Speaker 1: and what happens next we'll live in for me forever. 431 00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:05,199 Speaker 1: I was saying. It's one of the most horrific cult 432 00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:09,840 Speaker 1: based murders of all time, and we're going to talk 433 00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:12,879 Speaker 1: very specifically about that right after one more quick sponsor 434 00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:24,520 Speaker 1: break Helter Skelter. The apocalyptic prophecy of Manson, as told 435 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:30,040 Speaker 1: to his followers, was seen as inevitable but on a 436 00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:34,480 Speaker 1: flexible timeline, meaning that in their internal logic, it was 437 00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:39,400 Speaker 1: possible to nudge this into occurring a little bit earlier 438 00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:44,320 Speaker 1: than they would then they would otherwise expect. They began 439 00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:49,520 Speaker 1: committing murders. Um, you'll hear a lot about Tate la Bianca. 440 00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:54,000 Speaker 1: But on July nine, some of his followers killed a 441 00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:57,680 Speaker 1: man named Gary Hinman, allegedly because he would not join 442 00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:03,480 Speaker 1: Manson's rock band. In August eighth, nine, six nine, four 443 00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:06,880 Speaker 1: of Manson's followers drove to a place called Clo Drive, 444 00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:10,360 Speaker 1: breaking into the home of the then not yet exposed 445 00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:14,840 Speaker 1: and disgrace director and pedophile Roman Polanski as his pregnant 446 00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:19,440 Speaker 1: wife actress Sharon Tate entertained friends at the residents. Manson 447 00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:22,520 Speaker 1: was not there, No, not that night, but he sent 448 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:27,640 Speaker 1: four of his followers. Yeah, he sent the we're gonna 449 00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:33,200 Speaker 1: call them cult members Texts Watson, Susan Atkins, Linda Kasabian, 450 00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:37,520 Speaker 1: and Patricia Kranwinkle. They were all acting under orders from 451 00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:42,560 Speaker 1: Manson to destroy, destroy its important here, destroy everyone in 452 00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:46,960 Speaker 1: the house, and as gruesome a manner as possible. The 453 00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:52,520 Speaker 1: victims um were as noted, the the eight and a 454 00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:58,800 Speaker 1: half months pregnant Sharon Tate, which is just awful, her 455 00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:05,480 Speaker 1: former lover Ja see Bring the screenwriter voice tech Freakowski Um, 456 00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:09,680 Speaker 1: his lover Abigail Folder, who was the heiress to the 457 00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:14,280 Speaker 1: Folder Coffee company, and one other person, a student named 458 00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:18,120 Speaker 1: Stephen Parent who was literally just there to visit the caretaker. 459 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:23,520 Speaker 1: The caretaker lived on site. After brutally choking, stabbing, and 460 00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:27,960 Speaker 1: executing their victims, these cult members followed Manson's orders to 461 00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:33,240 Speaker 1: leave a sign quote something witchy Atkins wrote pig on 462 00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:36,560 Speaker 1: the front door of the house and Tate's blood. They 463 00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:39,360 Speaker 1: ditched their clothes and weapons in the hills on their 464 00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:42,560 Speaker 1: escape from the scene. In the logic of the family, 465 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:46,959 Speaker 1: this murder was a false flag of sorts. Manson was 466 00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:50,520 Speaker 1: perturbed that his predicted race war had yet to begin, 467 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:53,680 Speaker 1: and he believed that the murders would nudge these racial 468 00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:57,120 Speaker 1: tensions in the US, that white observers would believe this 469 00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:02,280 Speaker 1: is the work of militant black supremacist group, and that, naturally, 470 00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:05,880 Speaker 1: in his as you can see his clearly racist mindset, 471 00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:10,960 Speaker 1: naturally things would progress. But he was displeased by what 472 00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:14,960 Speaker 1: he saw as a sloppy performance on the part of 473 00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:17,240 Speaker 1: his cult members. That's another thing you do when you're 474 00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:22,800 Speaker 1: a cult leader. You constantly degrade, undermine um. What's the 475 00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:26,760 Speaker 1: word pickup artists used? Neg? You constantly neg your followers. 476 00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:29,480 Speaker 1: No matter what they do, it's never good enough. And 477 00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:35,160 Speaker 1: he accompanied them along with two other followers, Leslie Van 478 00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:39,920 Speaker 1: Houghton and Steve Clem Grogan, to quote show them how 479 00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:42,920 Speaker 1: to do it. They went to a different house. So 480 00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:45,640 Speaker 1: they arrived at the home of a supermarket executive by 481 00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:49,160 Speaker 1: the name of Leno La Bianca and his wife Rosemary, 482 00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:52,080 Speaker 1: which was just next door to a house where Manson 483 00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:55,680 Speaker 1: and his crew had been to a party before. Um. So, 484 00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:58,160 Speaker 1: after killing La Bianca and his wife, the crew left 485 00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:02,320 Speaker 1: the word war car into the wife's abdomen, along with 486 00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:07,160 Speaker 1: rise death to the Pigs and helter helter skelter. They 487 00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:10,960 Speaker 1: actually miss misspelled it, added an A to make it 488 00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:13,480 Speaker 1: a helter skelter um, and they wrote down on the 489 00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:17,440 Speaker 1: fridge door, also in the victim's blood. And for a 490 00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:22,640 Speaker 1: time it seemed as though the family would get away 491 00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:27,160 Speaker 1: with this right. The same forensic techniques that law enforcement 492 00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:32,600 Speaker 1: possesses today we're not in play in the late nineteen sixties. 493 00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:36,800 Speaker 1: Within days after the murders to Manson, family members are 494 00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:42,880 Speaker 1: actually arrested for car theft. Yeah, and then everybody else, 495 00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:46,480 Speaker 1: the Manson family, including the man himself, they fled to 496 00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:49,480 Speaker 1: hideouts in Death Valley because they were fearing I'm sure 497 00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:53,080 Speaker 1: that hey, two of our people got picked up. Something's 498 00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:56,600 Speaker 1: going down where we might get caught. And then October twelfth, 499 00:32:56,680 --> 00:33:00,760 Speaker 1: Manson himself was found hiding in a cupboard in Parker Ranch. 500 00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:06,520 Speaker 1: All in all, twenty seven people were arrested four car 501 00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:12,840 Speaker 1: theft ye. So there's no connection at this point still 502 00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:19,440 Speaker 1: between these murders, these horrific murders, and this thing that 503 00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:22,320 Speaker 1: appears for all intents and purposes to be a cult 504 00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:28,600 Speaker 1: themed grand theft auto ring. Susan Atkins, however, roles in prison. 505 00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:32,600 Speaker 1: She's boasting of murders that they've committed, and then later 506 00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:37,200 Speaker 1: she ends up cutting a deal with prosecution. December nineteenth 507 00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:41,400 Speaker 1: of the same year, this hits the mainstream in Life magazine. 508 00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:45,200 Speaker 1: There's a feature that's run Manson gains global notoriety. Is 509 00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:50,000 Speaker 1: the Western world learns of Helter Skelter. There's a seven 510 00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:54,800 Speaker 1: month trial, a seven month trial that arguably today would 511 00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:57,600 Speaker 1: maybe be a mistrial because the president at the time, 512 00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:02,200 Speaker 1: Richard Nixon, President Nixon is going this guy is guilty, 513 00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:05,960 Speaker 1: put him under the jail, kill him, you know, And 514 00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:10,120 Speaker 1: we were we were talking before off air, and you 515 00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:13,360 Speaker 1: have to wonder nowadays, the three of us were always 516 00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:16,480 Speaker 1: wondering what an historical event would be like if it 517 00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:20,360 Speaker 1: occurred in the age of Twitter, right, Well, what Nixon 518 00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:23,880 Speaker 1: strikes me as a Twitter friendly president. I can imagine 519 00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:28,040 Speaker 1: Nixon's Twitter account, and I can imagine, you know, people 520 00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:32,280 Speaker 1: were chiming in with the with these various opinions before 521 00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:35,399 Speaker 1: an elected official to say someone's guilty before a trial 522 00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:38,720 Speaker 1: comes out. For the highest elected official in the land 523 00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:46,360 Speaker 1: to say this could very well have injured the proceedings, right. Nonetheless, 524 00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:50,760 Speaker 1: the jury finds all the defendants guilty on January nineteen 525 00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:54,480 Speaker 1: seventy one, and in March of nine seventy one March 526 00:34:54,640 --> 00:35:00,399 Speaker 1: twenty nine, Manson, Cranwinkle, Atkinson, Van Houghton are sentence with 527 00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:04,680 Speaker 1: the death penalty. Watson is also sentenced, but at a 528 00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:08,440 Speaker 1: later date receives the death penalty. But then, as we 529 00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:13,759 Speaker 1: said in the beginning, California suspends the death penalty shortly thereafter, 530 00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:19,640 Speaker 1: and the families sentences are commuted to life imprison The 531 00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:24,880 Speaker 1: only two family members have been as of seventeen paroled, 532 00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:28,279 Speaker 1: Steve Gagan, who was seventeen at the time and he 533 00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:31,240 Speaker 1: was the guy who served as the lookout, and also 534 00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:37,760 Speaker 1: Lynnette Squeaky from who attempted to assassinate President Gerald Ford rights. 535 00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:41,400 Speaker 1: That is, you know, that's after Watergate occurs here, so 536 00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:47,320 Speaker 1: when we're also seeing his a tremendous amount of strange 537 00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:52,160 Speaker 1: and tragic events, right, disastrous events in a very short 538 00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:55,680 Speaker 1: frame of time, span of time. An important note as 539 00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:58,440 Speaker 1: we were recording this today, it is quite possible that 540 00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:04,080 Speaker 1: a third family member may see freedom. Leslie Van Houghton 541 00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:08,680 Speaker 1: was recently granted parole, however, is not out of the 542 00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:11,280 Speaker 1: gate or should I say out of the bars yet, 543 00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:15,760 Speaker 1: because this situation has come up before, and the governor 544 00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:19,920 Speaker 1: of California, the state in which Finn Houghton is currently incarcerated, 545 00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:24,560 Speaker 1: has a hundred and twenty days from the parole ruling 546 00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:29,040 Speaker 1: to either reverse the ruling, modify it granted, or make 547 00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:34,680 Speaker 1: no comment. And in other cases the governor has consistently 548 00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:39,400 Speaker 1: denied parole, so it did. It is quite possible that 549 00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:42,440 Speaker 1: by the time this podcast publishes, there may be a 550 00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:46,640 Speaker 1: third member out in the free world. But currently that's 551 00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:49,880 Speaker 1: not the case. In the the indications are not really 552 00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:53,000 Speaker 1: in the favor of parole have passed, you know, past 553 00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:58,240 Speaker 1: behavior as a precedent. Charles Manson, however, the person that masterminded, 554 00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:01,719 Speaker 1: at least according to the law and according to witnesses, 555 00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:06,360 Speaker 1: masterminded all of these murders and other nefarious deeds that 556 00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:09,080 Speaker 1: the family did. He spent the rest of his life 557 00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:14,320 Speaker 1: from this point forward in prison, where he lived as 558 00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:18,680 Speaker 1: a celebrity. As Dal said, an American boogeyman. I promise 559 00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:20,279 Speaker 1: him that I I can to overuse that, but I think 560 00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:25,239 Speaker 1: it's really good. Thanks man. Manson received more mail than 561 00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:29,040 Speaker 1: any inmates in US history, and he formed intense bonds 562 00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:33,080 Speaker 1: with admirers. He readily agreed to interviews, clips of which 563 00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:38,480 Speaker 1: you can see on YouTube today. He had various marriage proposals, 564 00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:45,239 Speaker 1: gets marriage licenses, He rolls the Nichols. Yeah, my favorite 565 00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:48,800 Speaker 1: interview segment. How how did you find that one? Actually? 566 00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:50,799 Speaker 1: Was it? Should we play a little? That's a good one. 567 00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:53,160 Speaker 1: I don't want to take my time going to work. 568 00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:55,879 Speaker 1: I got a motorcycle of a sleeping bag and chater 569 00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:57,920 Speaker 1: fifteen girls. What the hell I want to go off 570 00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:00,799 Speaker 1: into and go to work for it. For what money? 571 00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:02,800 Speaker 1: I got all the money in the world. I'm a 572 00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:07,200 Speaker 1: chain man. I run the underworld. Guy. I decide who's 573 00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:09,680 Speaker 1: just what and where they do it? At what Am 574 00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:11,160 Speaker 1: I going to run around and act like I'm some 575 00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:15,239 Speaker 1: cheenybopper somewhere for somebody else's money. I make the money man. 576 00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:20,000 Speaker 1: I rolled the Nichols. The game is mine. I deal 577 00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:22,040 Speaker 1: with the card and Yeah, and that you can hear 578 00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:25,759 Speaker 1: even later in his life, he's pretty's older at this point. 579 00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:30,320 Speaker 1: He's got that mannic kind of cadence of the street 580 00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:34,560 Speaker 1: preacher going for him. You know, right, well, I don't 581 00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:37,080 Speaker 1: want to take my time going to work. Yeah, And 582 00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:41,640 Speaker 1: there's a bit of cadence of poetry of course to it, 583 00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:47,760 Speaker 1: at least in terms of the language. And now, despite 584 00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:52,719 Speaker 1: all the claims of godhood and divine nature, Charles Manson 585 00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:56,840 Speaker 1: is dead. It's strange that the three of us have 586 00:38:56,960 --> 00:39:03,120 Speaker 1: not explored this topic before. Earlier, we noted that our 587 00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:07,600 Speaker 1: mission for this series was going to be to determine 588 00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:12,880 Speaker 1: what if any conspiracy theories surrounding the Manson family, Manson's background, 589 00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:16,160 Speaker 1: the murders in his later time in prison. We're true 590 00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:22,120 Speaker 1: and as as we've realized diving into this extremely disturbing 591 00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:26,480 Speaker 1: rabbit hole. This is more than one episode. In fact, 592 00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:31,320 Speaker 1: we have to dedicate an entire episode apart two, solely 593 00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:37,520 Speaker 1: to the conspiracy theories surrounding the life of Charles Manson. 594 00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:42,200 Speaker 1: So it is here that we must pause for a moment. 595 00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:45,880 Speaker 1: But although we are you know and we know that 596 00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:49,000 Speaker 1: it can feel kind of strange for us to say 597 00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:52,840 Speaker 1: here is the background. Here is part one of an episode. 598 00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:56,960 Speaker 1: But we will return with part two of the episode. 599 00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:59,200 Speaker 1: And in the meantime, we don't want to leave you 600 00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:02,480 Speaker 1: in the dark. We'd like to invite you to check 601 00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:06,680 Speaker 1: out some further reading. Yes, one thing we urge you 602 00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:10,600 Speaker 1: to check out until we meet again is a book 603 00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:14,080 Speaker 1: called Member of the Family, written by Diane Lake and 604 00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:19,000 Speaker 1: Deborah Herman. It is the story of Charles Manson, uh 605 00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:23,719 Speaker 1: the the life inside his cult, and the darkness that 606 00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:26,680 Speaker 1: ended the sixties. And it's written by a person Diane Lake, 607 00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:29,680 Speaker 1: who was a part of the family, someone who had 608 00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:33,120 Speaker 1: inside experience of what it was like to be manipulated 609 00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:36,960 Speaker 1: by Charles Manson and how the techniques that we've been 610 00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:39,640 Speaker 1: discussing that he was using, what it felt like to 611 00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:42,839 Speaker 1: be under the spell of some of that stuff, and 612 00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:46,160 Speaker 1: it gets a lot into the lost the lost girl 613 00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:49,680 Speaker 1: mentality that we were speaking about, all a lot of 614 00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:52,600 Speaker 1: that feeling of not having a family but then being 615 00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:57,760 Speaker 1: accepted into this this group, and the techniques of the girls, 616 00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:02,520 Speaker 1: the the the family itself that were surrounding Charles Manson, 617 00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:05,400 Speaker 1: how they would bring in almost as an amiba, bringing 618 00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:09,720 Speaker 1: other girls into the fold um. It's fascinating and pretty 619 00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:14,759 Speaker 1: dark stuff, but it's worth reading. You can also check 620 00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:18,440 Speaker 1: out the one of the most well known and comprehensive 621 00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:22,759 Speaker 1: books written about the trial in Manson's Background, which is 622 00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:27,400 Speaker 1: Helter Skelter, published in nineteen seventy four by Vincent Bugliosi 623 00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:33,759 Speaker 1: and Kurt Gentry, Vincent being the primary prosecutor for the 624 00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:37,680 Speaker 1: Manson trial, and in there you will find quite a 625 00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:41,960 Speaker 1: few things that don't make it into many examinations of 626 00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:48,000 Speaker 1: this strange, tragic, dare i say, disastrous tail in American history. 627 00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:51,360 Speaker 1: We'd like to know what you think. You can find 628 00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:54,799 Speaker 1: us on Instagram. You can find us on Twitter. You 629 00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:58,960 Speaker 1: can find us on Facebook, where we are conspiracy stuff 630 00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:01,200 Speaker 1: on most of those. On Intagram, we are a conspiracy 631 00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:04,000 Speaker 1: stuff show. But if you don't want to do any 632 00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:06,400 Speaker 1: of that stuff. If you have any tales that you 633 00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:10,480 Speaker 1: wish to tell us, any ideas right to us. We 634 00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:33,120 Speaker 1: are conspiracy at how stuff works dot com.